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00:06:08 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d8225a5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 00:13:51 *** Netsplit resistance.oftc.net <-> weber.oftc.net quits: Rubidium, confound_, devilsadvocate, Nat_as, namad8, @orudge, tparker, Kylie, Eddi|zuHause 00:15:29 *** Netsplit over, joins: @orudge, devilsadvocate, Eddi|zuHause, Nat_as, tparker, namad8, Kylie, confound_, Rubidium 00:15:34 *** mode/#openttd [+o Rubidium] by ChanServ 00:18:16 *** ErichEckner [~Erich@cable-86-56-96-239.cust.telecolumbus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:18:23 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 00:20:01 <Wolf01> 'night 00:20:04 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:22:58 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:29:18 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 00:32:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.103.105] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:35:32 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50:23 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.133] has joined #openttd 01:04:24 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 01:15:37 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 01:20:53 *** Knogle [~knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:21:35 *** Knogle [~knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 01:37:58 *** tparker [~tparker@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fe93:9541] has quit [Quit: brb] 01:37:59 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:41:45 *** tparker [~tparker@2600:3c03::1d:4242] has joined #openttd 01:49:42 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:845a:d6e1:c831:7917] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:51:47 *** pugi_ [~pugi@host-091-097-099-179.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 01:53:57 *** pugi_ [~pugi@host-091-097-099-179.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:55:40 *** brambles [brambles@79.133.200.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55:41 *** brambles [brambles@79.133.200.49] has joined #openttd 01:55:55 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-057-171.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:01:39 *** doppelganger_ [~doppelgan@109.128.136.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:18:52 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:29:03 *** guru3__ [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 02:29:03 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:54:09 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.133] has joined #openttd 04:05:00 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 04:46:29 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC671CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:46:49 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4F3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:57:08 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.106] has joined #openttd 05:53:36 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:54:38 <Terkhen> good morning 06:09:09 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.133] has joined #openttd 06:19:07 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:44:05 <Nat_as> If you zoom all the way out, and can't see the edges of the map 06:44:08 <Nat_as> it's too big 06:44:14 <Nat_as> I'm sorry scenerio developers 06:44:21 <Nat_as> just because you can, does not mean you should. 07:01:09 *** Progman [~progman@87.161.174.157] has joined #openttd 07:09:16 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 07:26:34 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has joined #openttd 07:26:38 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:35:32 * Alberth offers free cookies for all 07:38:36 <TWerkhoven> mmmm, cookies 07:41:36 <planetmaker> moin 07:41:57 <planetmaker> hm, coodies :-) 07:42:00 <planetmaker> *nom nom* 07:45:35 <Alberth> see, that helps :) 07:45:41 <Alberth> good morning :) 07:47:52 * Alberth needs FISH with auto-refit 07:49:20 <Prof_Frink> auto-refish 07:51:47 <planetmaker> haha :-) Yeah. all those cookie-addicts :-) 07:52:19 <planetmaker> hm, auto-refit is different than refit. But... very nice. It should get that indeed. And heqs, too 07:53:38 *** KouDy [~KouDy@115.133.14.224] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:04:44 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> weber.oftc.net quits: @Rubidium, confound_, devilsadvocate, Nat_as, namad8, @orudge, Kylie 08:06:36 *** KouDy [~KouDy@220.43.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has joined #openttd 08:14:51 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:15:15 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-233-242.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:16:20 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has joined #openttd 08:16:52 <Wolf01> good morning o/ 08:16:59 <Alberth> moin Wolf01 08:17:36 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 08:18:30 <Wolf01> I removed "some" dust from my pc today, it feels better now :D 08:19:09 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-10-50.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:21:39 <Alberth> always a good thing to prepare for all the free days in summer 08:22:52 *** telanus [~Barney_Er@196.215.173.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:31:02 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:33:05 *** mal2_ [~mal2@port-92-206-205-69.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:37:18 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-233-242.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:37:34 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:59:04 *** ErichEckner [~Erich@cable-86-56-96-239.cust.telecolumbus.net] has joined #openttd 08:59:38 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:00:26 <ErichEckner> Hi! 09:00:26 <ErichEckner> I've got a question about chill's patchpack: I installed id on a linux machine and on a windows one (both from revision 22553), it run's fine, but in network mode he won't connect due to "version" issues. Any suggestions? 09:00:42 <ErichEckner> *id -> it 09:00:50 <planetmaker> OpenTTD requires exact version matches 09:01:07 <planetmaker> you can never connect with one version to a server with another version 09:01:12 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 09:01:13 <ErichEckner> but rev22553 should be the same version, shouldn't? 09:01:36 <Terkhen> ErichEckner: it should be, but I have no idea about how versions are released for chill's patchpack 09:01:55 <planetmaker> yeah. *should*. I'm not sure what the PP does in detail 09:02:15 <ErichEckner> hmm, so I should use the same rev and the identical .patch-file? 09:02:23 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-81-32.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:02:28 <planetmaker> you self-compiled? 09:02:34 <ErichEckner> yes, both 09:02:41 <planetmaker> and of course. same rev and same patch 09:02:48 <planetmaker> otherwise it won't work 09:03:17 <ErichEckner> i used the same rev, about the same patch I'm not shure (I downloaded them to different times, but both are for rev 22553) 09:03:22 <Terkhen> also, since chill patchpack has binaries in its thread, you will have less headaches if you just use those 09:03:35 <ErichEckner> ... hmpf 09:03:36 <Alberth> you may want to try unpatched versions first, so you know your machine / network setup is ok 09:03:49 <ErichEckner> have tried this before and it works 09:04:13 <planetmaker> you might consider to use the pre-compiled ones: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/chillpp/releases/h83a53b6e/ 09:04:31 <Alberth> ok, so that points to differences in the patches, or in the way you build the programs 09:05:41 <ErichEckner> hmm, there _were_ differences in building, but I thought they just appear to how I had to install the dependencies 09:06:00 <ErichEckner> ... maybe I'll just use ready binaries 09:06:42 <Terkhen> if you prefer to self compile, first compile the same clean revision (without the patch) and once that works, make sure that you are using the same patch for both 09:07:17 <Alberth> and if the latter fails, ask at the topic, as it points to a problem in the code, perhaps 09:07:49 <ErichEckner> thanks, I've got quite a plan now :-) 09:07:57 <Terkhen> hmm... is the base costs newgrf deprecated or just outdated? 09:08:18 <planetmaker> Probably just a bit outdated 09:08:27 <planetmaker> base costs are not deprecated, are they? 09:08:32 <planetmaker> which? 09:08:43 <Terkhen> they are not, I was just asking about the newgrf :) 09:08:49 <Terkhen> ok, I'll post a few feature requests then 09:11:13 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:11:31 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:13:34 <Terkhen> besides that, I just need an interesting single player game script :P 09:14:38 <planetmaker> :-) 09:16:40 *** hackalittlebit [57c4e763@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 09:17:03 <hackalittlebit> mornin 09:17:38 <ErichEckner> I could use the source of chill and compile then ... 09:19:53 <hackalittlebit> Alberth: thanks for advice, installed tortoisehg, very nice :) 09:20:13 <Alberth> you're welcome :) 09:20:30 <hackalittlebit> made clone and clone of clone :) 09:20:40 <Alberth> nice eh ? 09:21:13 <hackalittlebit> clone of trunk. 09:21:36 <Alberth> have you ever worked with version control systems before? 09:22:08 <hackalittlebit> Terkhen: no 09:22:13 <hackalittlebit> sorry 09:22:16 <hackalittlebit> no 09:22:48 <hackalittlebit> well I allways used tortoisesvn 09:23:19 <Alberth> ok, you are in for an enjoyable ride then, you'll wonder how you ever managed without a vcs (version control system) 09:23:52 <hackalittlebit> :) 09:24:13 <Alberth> the biggest problem is that these things are highly generic, so they offer little guidance in how to do things 09:24:29 <Alberth> but just ask here, there is plenty of knowledge here 09:24:47 <hackalittlebit> Thanks Alberth 09:25:08 <planetmaker> hi hackalittlebit 09:25:15 <Alberth> and do read the mercurial book :) 09:26:55 <hackalittlebit> ok I will, one of the reasons I never changed is because of not knowing if tortoisesvn and tortoisehg could live together. 09:26:55 <planetmaker> the mercurial queues are a nice way to organize patches to be submitted to trunk 09:27:15 <planetmaker> During (heavy) development it might sometimes be a bit unhandy at times, though 09:27:42 <planetmaker> so that I first write and then re-write in form of a mq 09:28:24 <Terkhen> yes, develop first, think about distribution/commit later 09:28:26 <Terkhen> :P 09:28:57 <planetmaker> yeah. When there's still much code to add, I find it sometimes a bit too tedious to constantly hg qpush and hg qpop 09:29:07 <planetmaker> easier to disect later when things work 09:31:12 <hackalittlebit> Terkhen: I cant config png because zlib directory is not encountered. what flag do I have to use to tell where to fins zlib libs and includes? 09:32:00 <Terkhen> no idea, I never used those 09:32:01 <Alberth> I do that too, first make a clone for hacking the source until it works, then make a new clone and copy stuff from the first one in a proper queue 09:32:06 <Terkhen> you can check them with ./configure --help 09:32:09 <Terkhen> (IIRC) 09:32:16 * Alberth nods 09:32:53 <hackalittlebit> yeah was doing something like that already 09:34:52 <hackalittlebit> Terkhen i changed wiki to point to libpng-1.5.11, http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_MinGW 09:35:16 <hackalittlebit> it was 1.5.10 09:36:02 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 09:36:14 <Terkhen> hackalittlebit: nice, thanks :) 09:37:01 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-36-102.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 09:39:55 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 09:40:57 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-017-068.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:41:03 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-81-32.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:54:25 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-108.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 09:57:01 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe85b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:07:32 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 10:11:45 *** kkimlabs__ [~kkimlabs@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:16:35 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:24:18 *** kkimlabs_ [~kkimlabs@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 10:30:13 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-017-068.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 10:32:06 <ErichEckner> well, everything works with the binaries ... maybe I'm really to stupid :-/ 10:33:59 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has joined #openttd 10:36:17 <Alberth> nah, computers are just plain stupid in explaining why things won't work 10:36:49 <Alberth> together with a complicated and lengthy build and setup process, it gives you many hours of debug fun 10:39:27 *** guru3__ [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:43:32 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d0862c7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:48:20 <ErichEckner> cu l8er 10:48:53 *** ErichEckner [~Erich@cable-86-56-96-239.cust.telecolumbus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:52:45 *** guru3 [~guru3@stgt-4d024c29.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:54:39 *** guru3_ [~guru3@stgt-4d02536e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:55:49 *** jstepien [~jstepien@galera.ii.pw.edu.pl] has joined #openttd 10:56:13 *** kkimlabs__ [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 10:57:57 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 10:59:37 *** kkimlabs_ [~kkimlabs@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:00:39 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has joined #openttd 11:15:55 *** kkimlabs__ [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:16:08 *** Progman [~progman@87.161.174.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:17 *** kkimlabs__ [~kkimlabs@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 11:35:57 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-25-175-71.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 11:38:39 *** hackalittlebit [57c4e763@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 12:00:53 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:00:56 *** guru3 [~guru3@stgt-4d024c29.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01:55 *** guru3 [~guru3@stgt-4d024c29.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:04:30 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 12:06:59 *** guru3_ [~guru3@stgt-5f703d54.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:12:30 *** guru3 [~guru3@stgt-4d024c29.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:16:43 <jstepien> hi 12:17:05 <jstepien> I've added a "saved at" label to the load game window 12:17:12 <jstepien> here's how it looks like: http://stepien.cc/~jan/saved_at/ 12:17:35 <jstepien> I'm working on a patch and I'd like to learn what do you think about it 12:19:19 <jstepien> I'd find it useful, especially when you've got a lot of saved games and have no idea when you've played a given game 12:19:20 <FLHerne> It looks useful :-) 12:19:35 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:00 <FLHerne> 'Saved at yesterday' sounds a bit odd though. Maybe the strings need to be changed a little? 12:20:16 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 12:20:41 <jstepien> the format of the date is an open issue 12:22:15 <jstepien> there's no date prettyfing yet - what you see in the screenshot is a hardcoded string 12:24:03 <FLHerne> Oh, ok 12:25:50 <Alberth> seems useful 12:26:43 <jstepien> I guess that dd.mm.yyyy hh:mm or something else depending on your locale would be fine, but for last last 24 hours or so we can show prettyfied strings 12:27:38 <jstepien> it depends of course, but for me it's more natural to read 12:28:11 <jstepien> in such case though the "saved at" string would need to be replaced with something more appopriate 12:35:04 <planetmaker> there different formattings available for dates. And there's already a setting for the (default) savegame name 12:36:11 <frosch123> https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/5192 <- does something similiar, only date though, no time 12:38:19 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 12:40:03 <jstepien> frosch123: thanks for the link, it looks quite similar to what I'm working on. In fact I didn't know about the todo list on the wiki 12:41:28 <jstepien> frosch123: speaking of the attached patch, is sys/types.h available on windows? 12:42:14 <jstepien> planetmaker: thanks, where should I look for them? 12:42:21 <frosch123> no idea :) 12:43:08 <Terkhen> jstepien: on mingw maybe, on visual studio almost certainly not 12:43:18 <planetmaker> jstepien: the date format strings are defined somewhere in the string*.[cpp|h] files. Easiest to look at the language files 12:43:32 <planetmaker> There they are used definitely 12:43:34 <frosch123> jstepien: however, since the fios gui can already sort for date, there is already an os independent function in ottd for that 12:43:48 <planetmaker> or in the saveload code the date should thus be used, too 12:44:40 <jstepien> thanks guys, I'll be back with a patch to discuss 12:56:36 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has joined #openttd 12:57:03 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 13:17:35 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:21:18 *** Knogle [~knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:35 *** Knogle [~knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #openttd 13:23:29 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:32:38 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-99-100.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 13:32:53 *** Javis [~Javis@ti0197a380-dhcp0939.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 13:33:24 <Javis> crew? 13:33:32 <Alberth> who? 13:33:45 <V453000> everybody! :D 13:34:19 <Javis> someone with experience with dedicated server.. 13:35:09 <Terkhen> @get #openttd -3 13:35:09 <DorpsGek> Terkhen: Don't ask to ask, just ask 13:35:18 <Javis> hmmm.. 13:36:01 <Javis> when i start dedicated server on LAN without internet access.. the server stops after map generation is complete.. 13:36:24 <Terkhen> did you check the server log? 13:36:32 <Javis> no 13:36:40 <Javis> where is it located? 13:37:18 <Terkhen> depends on your operative system 13:37:28 <Javis> xp 13:37:37 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.75.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:37:44 <Terkhen> in the console where you launched it or in the console that appears when you launch it 13:38:14 <Javis> but the console dissappears before i can read something.. 13:38:34 <Alberth> open the console manually, and start openttd from it 13:39:03 <Javis> i just use .bat to start.. 13:39:19 <Terkhen> launch the bat from a console then 13:39:23 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-017-068.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 13:40:33 <Javis> cmd? 13:42:02 <Alberth> Even I know that, and I don't even have windows machine :p 13:42:21 <Javis> but server still shut down.. 13:42:28 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has joined #openttd 13:43:01 <Terkhen> Javis: as I said, you can either check the server log or keep guessing :) 13:43:18 <Javis> but where is the log? 13:43:54 <Terkhen> scroll a while back, I already answered that 13:44:03 <Terkhen> in the console :) 13:44:23 <Javis> it wont say where.. 13:45:05 <Terkhen> Javis: open a console, execute the bat, check the output 13:45:16 <Terkhen> and then tell us what it says 13:45:25 *** KouDy [~KouDy@220.43.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:45:29 <Terkhen> otherwise I won't be able to help you 13:45:38 <Alberth> alternatively, check the bat file, perhaps it does something weird with the log 13:45:51 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-105-75.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 13:46:20 <Javis> the bat file: start openttd.exe -D 13:46:38 <Terkhen> I have no idea of what start does 13:46:50 <Terkhen> just go to the folder with the console and run openttd -D 13:46:55 <Javis> it starts the file specified.. 13:47:17 <Terkhen> probably from a different console 13:47:20 <Terkhen> and then you can't see the output 13:47:30 <frosch123> if you right click the bat file in explored and check the properties, there might be an option to keep the console opened on exit 13:47:31 <Javis> what console? 13:48:35 <Javis> cant find that option 13:50:04 <Alberth> start -> run... -> "cmd" -> ENTER 13:50:41 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-99-100.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:50:48 <Javis> i have cmd 13:51:05 <Alberth> "openttd.exe -D" -> ENTER 13:51:10 <Javis> is it something with the config? 13:51:50 <Alberth> likely, but without knowing why it stops, it's just random guessing 13:52:10 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 13:53:52 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-109-76.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 13:54:33 <frosch123> well, try starting a non-dedicated server then 13:54:38 <frosch123> there you have a gui :) 13:55:07 <Javis> the dedicated server: map generation complete, starting game 13:55:26 <Javis> then: dedicated server could not be started, aborting 13:57:20 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 13:58:52 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-105-75.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:59:20 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.118] has joined #openttd 13:59:20 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:21 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:00:10 <Javis> tried to start non-dedicated server... 14:00:26 <Javis> failed to start server.. 14:01:07 <perk11> Javis: what's the error message? 14:01:22 <Javis> non-dedicated? 14:01:24 <perk11> where is this setting to see other companies' signs? I can't find it 14:01:54 <perk11> Javis: so? 14:02:22 <Javis> it says: could not start server. 14:03:26 <Terkhen> Javis: try openttd -D -d 14:03:45 <Terkhen> that should give us more info 14:04:09 <Javis> noop 14:04:17 <Javis> wont work.. 14:04:38 <Terkhen> Javis: our problem here is "lack of information" 14:04:44 <Alberth> openttd.exe -d net=9 14:04:51 <Terkhen> please use that command and tell us what it says, otherwise we can't help you 14:04:57 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:10 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:06:25 <Javis> im almost sure it is something with the cfg.. 14:06:33 <Javis> or does it need editing? 14:06:38 <FLHerne> I keep getting Make Error 1 after sqvm finishes compiling :-( . Does anyone know where I should be looking? 14:06:47 <Alberth> perk11: dropdown in the 3rd icon of the main toolbar 14:06:58 * FLHerne doesn't understand Makefiles etc well 14:07:01 <perk11> Alberth: thanks! 14:07:44 <Alberth> FLHerne: one or more lines up. That line is just make saying something went wrong during the build 14:08:54 <perk11> FLHerne: yep, more info is required 14:09:23 <FLHerne> Well, no previous errors :-( 14:09:27 *** Progman [~progman@87.161.174.157] has joined #openttd 14:09:28 <FLHerne> just: SRC] Compiling 3rdparty/squirrel/squirrel/sqvm.cpp 14:09:28 <FLHerne> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/francis/ottdsrc/qppb/objs/release' 14:09:28 <FLHerne> make: *** [all] Error 1 14:09:54 <Alberth> nice :) 14:10:08 <FLHerne> So for some reason I assume the makefile(s) is broken 14:10:19 * FLHerne is trying to combine patches again :P 14:11:02 <Alberth> you can try running "make reconfigure" 14:11:11 <perk11> FLHerne: it's strange, because "Leaving directory" means success 14:11:39 <Alberth> but we almost never touch the makefile, so it's unlikely to be broken 14:11:42 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:11:49 <Terkhen> Javis: whatever the problem is, without the output we need we can't help you 14:12:05 <Terkhen> I'm not going to press the issue further, if you try to get that output later we can continue 14:13:18 <FLHerne> perk11: Might it be that it can't load whatever it thinks the next directory is? 14:13:28 * FLHerne tries 'make reconfigure' 14:14:36 <FLHerne> 'make reconfigure;make' gave me: make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/francis/ottdsrc/qppb/objs/extra_grf' 14:14:36 <FLHerne> make: *** [all] Error 1 14:15:05 <perk11> FLHerne: I guess there should be error message for that as well 14:15:12 <FLHerne> Oh, and more entering/leaving directories (nothing to be done) first 14:15:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6C555.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:15:39 <perk11> FLHerne: try make clean; ./configure; make 14:15:52 <FLHerne> Interesting that it moans after leaving a different directory... 14:15:55 * FLHerne tries 14:16:35 <FLHerne> I tried make clean before, actually 14:16:51 <FLHerne> ah, yes. Same problem (again) 14:16:57 <Alberth> make mrproper cleans out everything (it's stronger than 'make clean') 14:17:24 * FLHerne tries that :P 14:17:49 <FLHerne> Same :-( 14:18:23 <FLHerne> Presumably one/more patches break something (or my incompetent merging :P ) 14:18:50 <FLHerne> Does anyone know which files being messed up would cause such an error? 14:19:25 <Alberth> you could try checking the source.list file 14:19:37 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:01 <FLHerne> oh, and compare it to the files that really exist? 14:20:17 <planetmaker> FLHerne: so... does unmodified openttd compile for you? 14:20:19 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 14:20:25 <planetmaker> if you don't know: Please check that first 14:20:26 <FLHerne> Aye :-) 14:20:34 <perk11> I'd try something to make "make" output everything 14:20:35 <planetmaker> then you should know which patches you applied 14:20:43 <FLHerne> I do 14:20:57 <planetmaker> then you could read those patches and check them for suspicious hunks 14:20:57 <FLHerne> I just don't know which bit broke it :-( 14:21:09 <planetmaker> nor can we know without knowledge of the patches 14:21:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6B326.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:21:23 <FLHerne> Ok 14:21:24 <planetmaker> :-) 14:21:50 <FLHerne> I was just trying to narrow down which sections of patch could potentially cause the error 14:22:06 <planetmaker> those which deal with configure, config.lib etc 14:22:18 <FLHerne> Thanks :D 14:22:31 * FLHerne starts staring at code again 14:22:43 <planetmaker> read the diff files. They immediately tell you 14:22:49 <planetmaker> or... post the diff 14:22:56 <planetmaker> *paste 14:23:05 <FLHerne> Indeed 14:23:25 * FLHerne imagines thousands of lines of diff filling the channel :P 14:24:51 <frosch123> any changes outside of the "src" folder can break the makefile 14:25:15 <FLHerne> That narrows it down a lot... 14:26:14 <FLHerne> So projects/openttd_vs??.vcproj are the only non-src files changed 14:26:26 <frosch123> well, actually i meant the reverse as well :) changes inside "src" are unlikely to break make 14:26:47 <frosch123> FLHerne: those files are only used when building on windows 14:26:59 <frosch123> but if they are changed, source.list is likely changed as well 14:27:25 <planetmaker> and if not changed it might be the reason for the error ;-) 14:27:40 <FLHerne> Ok, will stare at that one very closely :D. Thanks 14:28:08 <FLHerne> Oh, yes, it is modified. Missed it before :P 14:28:45 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:32:39 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 14:36:10 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:27 *** devilsadvocate [~quassel@109.200.19.188] has joined #openttd 14:57:11 <FLHerne> Ah. If it adds a file that doesn't exist to source.list, that might be problematic :P 14:57:19 * FLHerne tries to fix it 14:57:40 <Alberth> perhaps an added file that was not included in the patch output? 14:57:55 <FLHerne> That's probably the case 14:58:04 <jstepien> ok, here's the savegame file's mtime patch for discussion: http://pastie.org/4103329 14:58:23 * FLHerne looks for the files in question 14:58:30 <jstepien> it' based on the patch attached to https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/5192 15:00:08 <jstepien> as for now it displays only the date and I guess that something like SCC_DATE_TIME_LONG or SCC_DATE_TIME_PRETTY should be necessary to display the time 15:00:34 <jstepien> time information is available in struct tm so we've got all data we need 15:00:54 <Terkhen> jstepien: for discussion it might be better to create a patch task on our bug tracker, that way it won't get lost and everyone can see it :) 15:01:27 <jstepien> Terkhen: sure, if that's the preferred way I'll do it 15:01:38 <Terkhen> that said, does it works on windows? "struct tm *mtime" looks like unix only to me 15:01:54 <jstepien> Terkhen: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/a442x3ye(v=VS.80).aspx 15:02:10 <jstepien> windows seems to work fine with time.h 15:02:14 <Terkhen> ok :) 15:02:19 <jstepien> there's one problem though 15:02:27 <Alberth> should be, it's standard C :) 15:02:36 <jstepien> I've used localtime_r, which is POSIX but not windows 15:03:20 <jstepien> however folks at redmond had a sense of humour and added localtime_s which - if I understand correctly - does exactly the same thing as localtime_r 15:03:26 <jstepien> but with arguments swapped 15:04:10 * Terkhen wonders how is time handled in other parts of OpenTTD code 15:04:16 <Terkhen> I never had to touch that 15:04:18 <Terkhen> let's see 15:04:35 <jstepien> so I guess that for portability we'd need #define localtime_r(x,y) localtime_s(y,x) 15:04:47 <Alberth> not so much, I think, I am already surprised the file time exists 15:05:47 <jstepien> from what I've seen OpenTTD avoids dealing with time 15:06:24 <jstepien> there's Date everywhere 15:07:00 <Terkhen> I guess that if we had to deal with time before, it would have a definition on stdafx.h 15:07:15 <frosch123> we already have a method for getting the file date 15:07:19 <frosch123> the gui can sort for it 15:07:23 <Alberth> jstepien: that's game date :) 15:07:32 <jstepien> Alberth: ah, I see 15:07:35 <Alberth> frosch123: it needs wall-clock time 15:07:43 <frosch123> so, i think that code should be a single method instead of os specific ifdefs scattered all across the code :) 15:08:53 <jstepien> for save/load game gui, files' timestamps are read in fios.cpp:260 15:09:07 <jstepien> and that's the code I've used in the patch 15:09:22 <jstepien> extracting it to a separate function might be a good call 15:09:37 <frosch123> yeah, but please add a function for that, instead of using copy&paste for the ifdef part 15:10:49 <jstepien> frosch123: sure 15:12:42 <jstepien> frosch123: where should I put it? fios.cpp seems to be a bad place 15:13:27 <jstepien> fileio.cpp looks like generic file io handling - maybe there? 15:14:37 <frosch123> might be, i do not know that part that well :) 15:21:14 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:31:34 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.25.99.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 15:38:04 <Eddi|zuHause> in the right light, my black cat looks very brown... 15:42:08 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Maybe it was replaced with an artificial spy cat by aliens :p 15:47:01 <frosch123> aliens replaced with aliens by aliens? 15:52:25 <Achilleshiel> complete logical :) 15:59:39 *** Javis [~Javis@ti0197a380-dhcp0939.bb.online.no] has quit [] 16:09:00 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:14:15 <jstepien> I've attached my patch to the original bug report: https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/5192 16:27:40 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 16:27:42 *** perk11 [~perk11@46.242.11.118] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 16:33:00 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 16:34:54 *** confound [~hdp@glaive.weftsoar.net] has joined #openttd 16:37:24 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:40 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 16:49:59 *** Nat_as [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 16:49:59 *** namad8 [aaaaa@pool-96-236-218-157.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 16:49:59 *** Kylie [~Kylie@CPE18593346e177-CM18593346e174.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 17:09:19 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 17:17:22 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:17:39 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 17:33:57 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has joined #openttd 17:35:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r24347 /trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt: 17:35:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:35:39 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen 17:36:37 <Sacro> \o/ 17:38:13 <Rubidium> good afternoon 17:54:07 <Rubidium> ugh... these american, or whatever they are called, plugs are worse than useless. My adaptor + euro connector keep falling from the socket 17:54:16 <Terkhen> hi Rubidium :) 17:54:23 <Rubidium> even american plugs are slipping out of the socket 17:59:37 <Terkhen> they don't look very stable :P 18:04:00 *** Kylie [~Kylie@CPE18593346e177-CM18593346e174.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:04:22 *** Kylie [~Kylie@CPE18593346e177-CM18593346e174.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 18:06:59 <valhallasw> Rubidium: buy an extension cord 18:07:12 <valhallasw> Rubidium: then you can just put the adapter + sensible plug on the floor 18:07:27 <valhallasw> and then it's Rubidium-gravity 1-0 18:08:03 <Rubidium> valhallasw: if only the american plugs wouldn't fall from this socket as well, just slightly slower 18:10:48 <TrueBrain> duct-tape 18:10:51 <TrueBrain> it holds the world together 18:10:58 <TrueBrain> (and Minmatar ships, but that is another story on its own) 18:30:56 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 18:48:23 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 18:53:08 *** kkimlabs__ [~kkimlabs@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:00:01 *** mal2_ [~mal2@port-92-206-205-69.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:01:29 <planetmaker> Hi Rubidium! 19:05:27 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d2e:5513:8833:f1c3] has joined #openttd 19:05:28 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 19:06:48 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-108.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 19:12:21 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:13:27 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-87-91.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 19:17:34 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-36-102.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:21:26 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@cpe-69-203-124-125.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:22:39 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:26:46 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:28:09 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:32:39 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:48:04 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49:56 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:51:06 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 19:51:58 *** guru3 [~guru3@2-248-109-4-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:55:50 *** mal2_ [~mal2@port-92-206-205-69.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 20:05:07 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:23:03 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:23:36 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:24:30 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:25:31 <Terkhen> good night 20:32:28 *** Progman [~progman@87.161.174.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:17 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0/20120612164001]] 20:56:13 <frosch123> night 20:56:17 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe85b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:06 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has left #openttd [] 21:11:28 *** wizetmaplestory [~chatzilla@99-185-39-47.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 21:11:33 <wizetmaplestory> hello 21:12:12 <wizetmaplestory> are any devs here 21:14:32 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 21:15:30 <wizetmaplestory> does anyone know a dev 21:16:31 <__ln___> i know /dev/null 21:17:19 <wizetmaplestory> what? 21:20:30 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.25.99.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:10 <planetmaker> @topic get -3 21:37:10 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask 21:37:31 <planetmaker> ^ wizetmaplestory 21:38:29 <Wolf01> 'night 21:38:33 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:42:43 <planetmaker> __ln___: sure you are not more familiar with /dev/random ? :-P 21:46:01 <planetmaker> wizetmaplestory: don't wait for anyone whom you think may know the answer to a question yet no-one knows except you. Just ask. Here are many knowledgable people 21:52:44 <wizetmaplestory> i just want to suggest something 21:55:01 <planetmaker> replace question by suggestion and everything said above also applies ;-) 21:56:06 <wizetmaplestory> although these people arnt devs and wont be able to say about it being possible to put in the trunk or etc. 21:56:58 <V453000> it isnt possible. 21:57:59 <planetmaker> devs are known to read this channel, you know... 21:58:30 <planetmaker> but indeed, unsuggested things are not possible. V is completely right 21:59:40 <planetmaker> besides... this channel also has a lot of knowledgable people who aren't devs but who know their way around the code well enough 22:00:10 <wizetmaplestory> though telling you guys wont be letting the devs know 22:00:44 <wizetmaplestory> and they cant do it if they dont know 22:00:47 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Popidopidopido] 22:00:48 <planetmaker> ... V453000, can you slap me a bit? I must be ... in the wrong movie 22:00:48 <V453000> :D 22:01:01 <V453000> ridiculous isnt it 22:01:08 <planetmaker> very much so 22:01:38 <planetmaker> wizetmaplestory: did you ever compare the admins of this channel to the dev names? 22:01:53 <wizetmaplestory> no 22:02:00 <planetmaker> do that ;-) 22:02:06 <V453000> ^^ but wants to make suggestion 22:02:15 <wizetmaplestory> where are the admins? 22:02:28 <V453000> they have @ in start of the name 22:02:37 <planetmaker> and + in this case, too 22:02:41 <V453000> ah yes 22:02:41 <wizetmaplestory> none do 22:02:42 <planetmaker> they're just modest 22:02:54 <planetmaker> and the indication depends on your IRC client 22:03:01 <V453000> hm :) 22:03:05 <wizetmaplestory> im using chatzilla 22:03:16 <planetmaker> probably with a star or so 22:03:20 <V453000> I thought the chat window always has @, the user list stars etc 22:03:27 <planetmaker> anyway, we digress a lot. 22:03:44 <planetmaker> nah, they don't V453000 :-) But most IRC clients do use it 22:03:53 <wizetmaplestory> theres dark green lights for users and i dont know what the grey and light green stand for 22:03:55 <V453000> :) 22:04:09 <planetmaker> wizetmaplestory: grey and light green are mods 22:04:19 <wizetmaplestory> does devs also read chat logs 22:04:24 <planetmaker> they do 22:04:27 <wizetmaplestory> ok 22:04:32 <wizetmaplestory> anyways 22:04:33 <planetmaker> lalalala... 22:04:47 <wizetmaplestory> like of how Google bought YT 22:05:03 <wizetmaplestory> we should be able to buy companies without them being bankrupt 22:05:18 <wizetmaplestory> but of cource 22:05:20 <wizetmaplestory> course 22:05:29 <wizetmaplestory> the other would have to agree 22:05:29 <V453000> lol 22:05:53 <V453000> if the other agrees, they could just make their money below 0 for a few months 22:05:54 <V453000> done 22:05:58 <wizetmaplestory> and i have a reason for this which is also the reason why i thought of it 22:06:07 <planetmaker> well... sure that's feasible. But what V453000 says 22:06:18 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-8-235.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 22:06:19 <planetmaker> just go into debt for 4 consecutive quarters 22:06:19 <wizetmaplestory> someone wants to me to join their company 22:06:31 <wizetmaplestory> but i dont want to leave my company 22:06:59 <planetmaker> though the debt version has issues. The 'best' company may buy first 22:07:09 <wizetmaplestory> yep 22:07:12 <planetmaker> which might not be the one you like 22:07:20 <V453000> yeah you have go have disciplined people on the server :) 22:07:38 <V453000> which we do. :) 22:07:47 <planetmaker> on the coop servers, yes 22:08:09 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-4d0862c7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 22:08:41 <planetmaker> wizetmaplestory: yes, it's feasible to change that. But... enabling shares in MP is not a good idea 22:09:13 <planetmaker> they can be used to cheat money. Thus this is an option which rather should IMHO be implemented as "merge companies" which both companies simply have to agree. 22:09:17 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-108.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:09:20 <planetmaker> without any purchases involved 22:09:42 <planetmaker> and with the penalty that the worst town rating is taken for the newly formed company. 22:09:51 <planetmaker> worst of the two existing companies 22:09:51 <V453000> I guess that would have to be the result, just merge 22:10:54 <planetmaker> would fall in a similar area as to how to give money to other companies (which still works on a per player basis) 22:12:07 <planetmaker> and it IMHO would need (yet another) advanced setting so that it could be disabled server-side 22:12:17 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-89-59.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:12:35 <planetmaker> and behold. you now got a dev's opinion on your suggestion. 22:12:58 <wizetmaplestory> also the possibility of buying rights to a building would be good 22:13:39 <V453000> actually an option to disable ability to buy companies even when bankrupt wouldnt hurt either 22:13:53 <V453000> usually the bought company is only a mess that the buyer only leaves rotting 22:13:56 <planetmaker> could be the same just then 22:13:59 <V453000> therefore just taking space 22:14:00 <V453000> yeah 22:14:16 <planetmaker> what kind of buildings, wizetmaplestory? 22:14:43 <wizetmaplestory> i mean like buy rights to a water pump so it'll only supply your stations 22:15:11 <planetmaker> it's called exclusive transport rights and those are issued by towns for all the cargo of their industries and their citizens 22:15:13 <V453000> sabotage tool no1 :D 22:15:49 <planetmaker> mind, it's a transport game. You don't own the cargo. You're only paid for the transport 22:16:12 <wizetmaplestory> i mean like companies buying rights for a single building (NOT a whole town) 22:16:21 <V453000> and imagine that you have been growing a town for 100 years, then someone comes and buys rights 22:17:28 <planetmaker> Well. Towns belong to you either ;-) 22:17:59 <planetmaker> wizetmaplestory: I'm afraid I'd not like the idea to get exclusive rights for a single industry :-) 22:18:09 <planetmaker> mostly for gameplay reasons 22:18:21 <planetmaker> and the added, unneeded complexity 22:18:43 <planetmaker> and in reality it's solved nicely by server rules which are maintained by the admins of the server 22:19:35 <wizetmaplestory> well obviously there'll be a limit of how many buildings you can buy rights for 22:19:45 <wizetmaplestory> maybe 3 or so 22:20:01 <wizetmaplestory> and pricy 22:20:21 <planetmaker> I don't really see a gameplay advantage 22:21:25 <planetmaker> especially, you can get somewhere close to that already by combining NewGRFs and game scripts. But that'd need a bit work in their authors end 22:21:46 <V453000> I think buying any rights for anything is just stupid and it mainly opens door for sabotage, while not bringing anything good. Normal people will respect each other and leave used industries/towns to the people who were there first 22:22:48 <planetmaker> Oh, I really think both views are equally valid, V453000, the competitive aggressive, the competitive friendly 22:23:00 <planetmaker> it's just a matter of what game you like to play 22:23:04 <V453000> sure 22:23:15 <planetmaker> I prefer the latter. you, too. But not all do 22:23:18 <V453000> but having an option to buy anything on the map for yourself is just silly 22:23:27 <wizetmaplestory> i just fucking hate it when someone leeches off of me and gets more cargo 22:23:49 <V453000> wizetmaplestory: he could also buy the rights so you get nothing 22:23:59 <wizetmaplestory> not if i do it first 22:24:02 <planetmaker> wizetmaplestory: well. Then you play on the wrong server. Play on a well moderated one with proper rules 22:24:22 <wizetmaplestory> which has no one online 22:24:33 <planetmaker> otherwise the person could just buy exclusive rights on your most valuable industry. And then? 22:24:46 <wizetmaplestory> you can use a different building 22:24:49 <planetmaker> It's an issue which has no technical solution. Social problems usually don't 22:25:43 <planetmaker> I can recommend the openttdcoop stable server ;-) There people won't steel from your industry. usually 22:25:48 <planetmaker> *steal 22:25:51 <planetmaker> not steel :-P 22:25:53 <V453000> there is a feature for social problems, it is called kick/ban :p 22:26:56 <xQR> <wizetmaplestory> not if i do it first <-- that's exactly the problem with all the "buying and owning" ideas 22:27:04 <xQR> at some point the game is degraded to a "who is first" battle 22:27:23 <xQR> "who secures the best resources first?", instead of "who can build the best rail network?" 22:27:47 <wizetmaplestory> like i said, limit 22:27:50 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-108.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 22:27:50 <xQR> also you will play alone on the server - people join, see you have reserved all the good spots, leave 22:27:54 <xQR> happy single player 22:27:54 <xQR> ;) 22:28:20 <wizetmaplestory> obviously there will be a limit depending on server 22:28:36 <wizetmaplestory> some servers will have it disabled, some will only have 1 allowed 22:28:58 <planetmaker> wizetmaplestory: still. That won't add to gameplay really 22:29:15 <wizetmaplestory> only SOME fairness 22:29:26 <planetmaker> it's a social problem. And has no technical answer which will work. Fairness is only ensured by moderation 22:29:41 <wizetmaplestory> i hate it when people leech from me and they get more cargo 22:29:43 <planetmaker> whatever technical means you employ 22:29:59 <V453000> as planetmaker said. 22:30:03 <planetmaker> you said that. And I say. get a well moderated server. I'm sure xQR's one are that as well 22:30:25 <wizetmaplestory> problem is, only n-ice servers have people on 22:30:36 <wizetmaplestory> which are the servers im having the problems on 22:30:41 <planetmaker> totally not true ;-) 22:31:00 <wizetmaplestory> i mean server with really people on 22:31:01 <planetmaker> http://www.openttd.org/en/servers 22:31:21 <V453000> I believe there are some other servers with people on, but as you want .. :) 22:31:37 <wizetmaplestory> whenever i look at the servers, only the n-ice servers has more than 4 people on 22:31:49 <planetmaker> I look and see more servers ;-) 22:32:13 <wizetmaplestory> and BT-Pro is pretty much the same 22:32:25 <wizetmaplestory> only less people 22:32:27 <xQR> they allow claiming, don't they? 22:32:32 <wizetmaplestory> no 22:32:39 <wizetmaplestory> 100% same as n-ice servers 22:32:42 <xQR> they have copied the n-ice rules but made this one change, specifically for goods 22:32:43 <xQR> no 22:32:44 <planetmaker> xQR: yours are the n-ice? 22:32:48 <xQR> yep 22:32:54 <planetmaker> :-) 22:33:01 <xQR> i know Frank changed it 22:33:15 <xQR> because they got a lot of people with the same arguments like you 22:33:53 <wizetmaplestory> xQR, whats the difference of you and xOR 22:33:54 <V453000> I seriously dont understand how could anyone even dare to steal from a well-supplied factory of another player 22:34:02 <xQR> there is none 22:34:06 <xQR> xOR just wasn't free here 22:34:34 <planetmaker> :-) 22:34:44 <wizetmaplestory> V453000 probably because the one person is just playing for fun and the other is playing just to be a douche 22:34:52 <wizetmaplestory> taking advantage of it 22:35:02 <xQR> V453000 so in real life you transport wood to a factory - that factory produces wooden toys from it 22:35:04 <planetmaker> wizetmaplestory: so it's a moderation issue. Report it and it will be dealt with 22:35:10 <xQR> now you automatically own those toys, right? 22:35:13 <xQR> not the factory, noooo 22:35:14 <V453000> yes but still I dinf it really very agressive and disrespectful 22:35:22 <wizetmaplestory> except that its allowed on n-ice servers 22:35:26 <V453000> xQR: real life isnt openttd 22:35:36 <planetmaker> wizetmaplestory: then play on the BT or the coop server 22:35:37 <xQR> yeah but then we should have flying trains 22:35:46 <wizetmaplestory> YES 22:35:49 <planetmaker> as they obviously allow claiming. 22:35:56 <V453000> should I take that as feature request for nuts xQR? :D 22:36:04 <xQR> or we try to keep a bit close to reality and don't have a transportation company own a factory only by transporting stuff there 22:36:19 <planetmaker> my words, xQR :-) 22:36:20 <xQR> the feature request from my side would rather be: make a delay for goods production of factories 22:36:24 <xQR> so it becomes clear 22:36:27 <wizetmaplestory> oh god i havnt seen a luukland server in forever 22:36:31 <xQR> the only reason why people think they automatically own the goods 22:36:34 <planetmaker> xQR: that's newgrf-able 22:36:42 <xQR> is that 1 crate appears at the same second you put 1 resource in 22:36:43 <wizetmaplestory> too bad i was mac banned for talking too much 22:37:01 <planetmaker> like stockpiling in ECS does that to some extend. Could be even made 'worse' 22:37:10 <planetmaker> *extent 22:37:17 <V453000> no the reason that people think they own the factory is because they care for it and supply it. And probably dont want anyone to come and get the reward of goods from them just cause. 22:37:46 <xQR> on our servers more than half of players who complain about a goods "stealer" don't have ever even transported their own goods 22:37:54 <xQR> they are just pissed that someone else makes profit from it 22:38:04 <xQR> it's really just an emotional thing most of the time 22:38:08 <xQR> and i don't understand why 22:38:17 <planetmaker> my precious! 22:38:20 <planetmaker> mine! 22:38:25 <xQR> :P 22:39:28 <planetmaker> people want security (my industry) and guidance (clear goals) 22:39:33 <V453000> well that is questionable but I guess they just didnt make it to set up the goods transport yet? 22:39:35 <planetmaker> Both OpenTTD does not offer by default 22:39:38 <xQR> also those stealers very rarely can compete with them in any other way, for the "factory owner" it's like a small itch but still they make a fuss about it as if their company was destroyed by it :P 22:39:45 <xQR> as i said, emotional, nothing else 22:39:48 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@201.47.25.99.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 22:40:16 <xQR> i've seen a player who was at 99% of a 15 billion goal complaining about that one player getting goods from his factory at 1 spot 22:40:22 <xQR> a player which was at 5% of the goal 22:40:44 <planetmaker> he's competitive. It cost him probably 20k gc 22:40:50 <xQR> :P 22:40:56 <planetmaker> it's unfair. By his standards 22:41:00 <wizetmaplestory> or at least if a second or third or etc., person comes it 22:41:09 <wizetmaplestory> SPLIT THE CARGO EQUALLY 22:41:14 <planetmaker> wizetmaplestory: only two people get goods anyway. 22:41:22 <planetmaker> and not equally. That's what transport rating is for 22:41:24 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-108.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:41:29 <wizetmaplestory> but the seconds always gets more 22:41:34 <planetmaker> nope 22:41:38 <wizetmaplestory> even when i have the better rating 22:41:39 <planetmaker> just offer better service 22:41:47 <planetmaker> nope 22:41:56 <planetmaker> best station rating gets most 22:42:03 <planetmaker> 2nd best get 2nd most 22:42:06 <planetmaker> others get nothing 22:42:07 <xQR> wizetmaplestory you probably got fooled by the fact that station rating changes take a bit of time to become effective 22:42:08 <planetmaker> that's it 22:42:16 <wizetmaplestory> then the other person must of been hacking 22:42:19 <xQR> but it's like planetmaker said 22:42:24 <planetmaker> nope, wizetmaplestory 22:42:55 <wizetmaplestory> the ratings always showed i had a better rating but he got more 22:43:17 <planetmaker> it helps to have new vehicles. Have fast vehicles. Have frequently vehicles arrive. Have costant loading 22:43:38 <planetmaker> Maybe it only piled on his station due to bad service? 22:43:53 <planetmaker> doesn't mean he got more. Just that he transported rarely 22:44:08 <xQR> wizetmaplestory next time save the game and we count who really got more :P 22:44:11 <planetmaker> I have stations with 5% service rating and 20k coal 22:44:22 <wizetmaplestory> he was also loading the same train on two water pumps and more fequent loading 22:44:34 <planetmaker> then he had better rating than you 22:44:59 <wizetmaplestory> although the game showed otherwise 22:45:11 <planetmaker> but without savegame I must write-off your claim of it working differently than I just said as unfounded, I'm afraid 22:45:28 <wizetmaplestory> i hate arguing anyways 22:45:31 <planetmaker> show us with a savegame that you're right 22:45:59 <xQR> btw i don't agree that such a thing could be done by admin moderation - it would only lead to a lot of admin calls where both players state "i was first" and the admin has to find out 22:46:05 <xQR> this can become annoying really fast 22:46:46 <planetmaker> xQR: yes... agreed. Though that seems to happen hardly in my experience. And if it happens, logs usually helped us out quickly. or previous savegames 22:47:02 <planetmaker> happens like once a quarter or so on our server 22:47:06 <wizetmaplestory> at least i figured out how to become a millionaire finally 22:47:09 <xQR> you haven't seen a server with 17 active players, most of them not very experienced... 22:47:23 <planetmaker> well... I did ;-) 22:47:25 <xQR> sometimes there are calls every 5 minutes, and this is going on for hours 22:47:31 <xQR> about all kinds of stuff 22:47:45 <wizetmaplestory> you know what rustles my jimmies 22:47:57 <wizetmaplestory> when noobs put large jets on small airports 22:48:06 <planetmaker> But I quickly teach them to not call admins for things they don't need an admin for ;-) 22:48:31 <V453000> oh yes you dont want to call planetmaker without a reason :D 22:48:32 <xQR> sure but new players that haven't been taught this lesson pop out of nowhere every hour 22:48:34 <planetmaker> Especially to not "test" the !admin command just for fun :-P 22:48:46 <xQR> yeah we have the same story 22:48:52 <xQR> usually makes us "test" commands too 22:48:54 <xQR> like !kick 22:48:54 <xQR> :D 22:49:09 <planetmaker> why yeah... or !ban :-P 22:49:19 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.154] has joined #openttd 22:49:38 <planetmaker> but ok. Not for first-time "testers" ;-) 22:49:40 <xQR> that would be a bit too hard, !tempban at maximum :P 22:50:27 <xQR> wizetmaplestory 22:50:28 <xQR> Competition is encouraged, but limited! You don't own cities but you CAN claim a factory, people can compete with you for any resources in a city BUT may NOT steal goods a factory produces with supplies from a competitor! 22:50:31 <xQR> the rules on BTPro 22:50:48 <xQR> that's the only part Frank has changed afaik 22:51:17 <wizetmaplestory> to me, seemed like the rules on BTpro seems the same as n-ice 22:51:26 <wizetmaplestory> except for the nobrk 22:51:35 <xQR> yeah because Frank is a lazy boy and just copied our rules :P 22:51:43 <xQR> but he has made some changes 22:51:55 <xQR> also i see they have a new "walk on water" rule now o0 22:52:17 <wizetmaplestory> yep 22:52:30 <wizetmaplestory> o.0 22:52:36 <xQR> and teleportation lol 22:52:38 <xQR> wtf is that 22:52:44 <wizetmaplestory> oh, not a irc style siliy 22:52:47 <wizetmaplestory> smily 22:52:48 <xQR> "Teleportation" is NOT allowed. 22:52:50 <wizetmaplestory> blah 22:52:54 <xQR> say what? 22:53:02 <xQR> don't beam me up, scotty! 22:53:08 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Quickstart/Stable <-- maybe you like that, wizetmaplestory 22:53:28 <wizetmaplestory> and im having rail problems 22:53:59 <planetmaker> xQR: you don't know teleport? It's beaming cargo over (station-spread)*2 tiles :-) 22:54:11 <xQR> yeah i just read 22:54:27 <xQR> i knew it but when i heard the term teleportation didn't link it to what i knew 22:54:42 <xQR> "Servicing the same industry requires agreement of both players, although is not recommended." <-- what a good source for problems :P 22:54:46 <V453000> you might consider some poitns too strict but I insist on the fact that it creates a good environment for friendly play and doesnt limit nice people :) 22:55:11 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-109-76.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:55:48 <xQR> yeah but such agreement things are a problem - what if someone agrees first but later when someone already relies on such connections pretty much withdraws his agreement? 22:56:38 <xQR> actually most servers without explicit rules work this way, people would have to agree on things by themselves 22:56:42 <xQR> but it's rarely working 22:56:44 <V453000> if you once agree you agree. 22:57:02 *** Devroush [~dennis@178-119-153-135.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:57:06 <planetmaker> we could probably not prove that, though, V453000. That's the point. 22:57:07 <xQR> i still think such rules will work on openttdcoop as it is usually frequented by a bit more experienced players 22:57:14 <V453000> yeah I guess 22:57:20 <V453000> logs? 22:57:37 <xQR> but log checking is a tedious task 22:57:43 <xQR> especially if you run several servers 22:57:54 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d66-183-118-108.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 22:58:14 <wizetmaplestory> WTF 22:58:17 <wizetmaplestory> YAPF sucks 22:58:30 <planetmaker> xQR: yes... though grepping for a user name makes it easy 22:58:32 <V453000> good way how to start discussion about yapf 22:58:42 <planetmaker> :-) indeed 22:58:46 <xQR> that depends on the logs you want to search 22:59:09 <xQR> on our servers admins can query the DoCommand logs of all players via IRC - sounds comfortable but it's often hundred thousand lines 22:59:15 <xQR> so you need to know what to search for 22:59:22 <wizetmaplestory> thats not a fucking 90 degree turn but my train isnt taking it 22:59:25 <xQR> e.g. specific tile coordinates of the spot where you want to see when someone built his station 22:59:58 <planetmaker> xQR: or the rought time 23:00:13 <planetmaker> *rough 23:00:24 <V453000> luckily I have to say I only solved such issue like once or twice 23:01:01 <xQR> i hear the "i was there first" thing several times a day - and i am always happy that my answer simply is "it doesn't matter, you're all allowed to compete" 23:01:08 <xQR> if i would have to find out every single time... 23:01:28 <planetmaker> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1489/ <-- xQR 23:02:00 <planetmaker> feasible ;-) But not trunk. Sadly, if you ask me. Though one can do similar with admin port now 23:02:14 <xQR> which is what we're doing 23:02:16 <xQR> ;) 23:02:19 <planetmaker> :-) 23:02:32 <planetmaker> did you ever publish your admin port stuff? 23:02:37 <xQR> nope 23:02:42 <planetmaker> bah. sad 23:02:46 <planetmaker> why not? 23:04:19 <xQR> i was even crazy enough to translate most of the DoCommands, so our logs are like spoken text and not that rough 23:05:01 <xQR> [01:14:39] ⢠<OTTD-2> <YardKing/3 (Dark Blue)> has started/stopped vehicle 13 - at 213x973 (0x79AD5) 23:05:01 <xQR> [01:14:41] ⢠<OTTD-2> <YardKing/3 (Dark Blue)> has cloned a(n) train (wagon) with shared orders - at 218x974 (0x79CDA) 23:05:02 <xQR> [01:14:42] ⢠<OTTD-2> <YardKing/3 (Dark Blue)> has skipped vehicle 13 to order 1 - at 217x973 (0x79AD9) 23:05:04 <xQR> and so on 23:05:26 <xQR> you can also have it relayed to you over IRC live 23:05:32 <xQR> to "watch" someone 23:05:46 <planetmaker> why is it not public and open source? 23:06:07 <xQR> power :D 23:06:22 <xQR> http://prebendorf.dk/openttd/ 23:06:23 <planetmaker> should we close-source and sell OpenTTD? 23:06:29 <planetmaker> and require licenses? 23:06:36 <xQR> i'd buy it, definitely :P 23:07:09 <planetmaker> well. It really saddens me. 23:07:28 <planetmaker> As I don't get it. We work for free. For everyone to join. And see. And improve 23:07:52 <planetmaker> why is that not honoured mutually? 23:08:39 <xQR> tbh i think OpenTTD is JUST big enough - a bit smaller and you simply wouldn't find enough contributors to gain the smallest benefit from open source 23:08:51 <xQR> i have posted a request for xShunter testers on the forum but response was really low 23:09:12 <planetmaker> you don't publish it for everyone to test, did you? 23:09:13 <xQR> it wouldn't be like OpenTTD, a big community of people helping each other 23:09:52 <planetmaker> asking people to "apply" for testing... usually reduces publicity to 1% or so 23:09:52 <xQR> no, but i will, it just has some instabilities i want to fix first 23:10:32 <planetmaker> tbh, I'd never do that. Even where I'm interested. As I despise that practise frankly speaking 23:11:15 <planetmaker> "fixing first" is always an argument. But you get often way more feedback when you allow public review. Instead of only people whom you asked or who asked you 23:11:17 <xQR> i know and take that into account - but as long as the 1% gives me enough input and shows me that there are still some bigger issues to solve 23:11:46 <planetmaker> *sigh* 23:12:11 <xQR> right now i don't want more feedback, i get more than i can process :P 23:12:29 <planetmaker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Release_early,_release_often 23:12:46 <xQR> i know all those arguments ;) 23:13:32 <planetmaker> yeah... you're right. We should not have these "discussions" 23:13:46 <planetmaker> they only sadden me... more and more... demotivating 23:14:30 <planetmaker> maybe I should use agpl for everything 23:14:47 <xQR> i just think that can be better applied to bigger projects - i have done the open source short release cycle thingy for that counter strike plugin 23:14:55 <xQR> it was running on 2500 servers worldwide 23:15:02 <wizetmaplestory> CS plugin? 23:15:03 <xQR> guess how much help i got from the community 23:15:13 <planetmaker> none 23:15:17 <xQR> in 4 years or so there was 1 person 23:15:22 <xQR> who contributed 5 lines of code 23:15:33 <xQR> which were written so badly i threw them away as they were 23:15:34 <planetmaker> but so? 23:15:38 <xQR> and implemented the same feature with my own code 23:16:07 <planetmaker> what's the point you try to make with this? 23:16:20 *** HootzMcToke [~quassel@d50-92-68-219.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 23:17:26 <xQR> i just don't see the benefit from a public OSS release right now 23:17:39 <planetmaker> is there harm? 23:17:51 <xQR> btw it isn't even completely true that it's closed source 23:17:58 <xQR> because most of the features today are written in plugins 23:18:12 <xQR> and these plugins are always in source code 23:18:22 <xQR> you can even change the code while xShunter is running 23:18:29 <xQR> so i can add game features without restarting anything 23:18:33 <xQR> or fix bugs 23:19:22 <planetmaker> so your only argument against an OSS release is "I don't see the point" and the implicit fear of "no-one will care"? 23:19:28 <xQR> harm? actually no, i wanted to release but i was asked by other users not do it, so they could keep their advantage over other communities 23:19:32 <xQR> :P 23:19:37 <planetmaker> rather the latter than the first? 23:19:44 <xQR> and i was like *shrug* and still do private releases 23:19:46 <xQR> :P 23:19:57 <planetmaker> ach... 23:21:07 <planetmaker> How petty 23:21:55 <Mazur> Yes, that's exactly how for instance science gets all those breakthroughs. 23:22:27 <xQR> now where did science get into my little hobby project i do for my own fun? 23:22:51 <Mazur> As an example of the benefit of openly sharing. 23:23:33 *** TWerkhoven [~twerkhove@cpc3-linl7-2-0-cust522.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 23:24:55 <xQR> as i said, i haven't seen such benefit being there for small projects 23:25:00 <xQR> and even OpenTTD is quite small 23:25:20 *** paks2 [~paksdm@24.231.66.199] has joined #openttd 23:25:25 <planetmaker> I'm really really saddened over and over. Where I look, NewGRFs, obviously also admin port, it's all like "I want my stuff, no-one change it, no-one look at it" 23:25:43 <planetmaker> where's our open and friendly community? Where is that sustainable? 23:26:30 <planetmaker> why are people like that while they play a game which works just the revers, where everything is open, everyone can contribute, everyone can use play and modify for free? 23:26:53 <planetmaker> I really, really, don#t get it... 23:27:16 *** roadt [~roadt@223.240.98.133] has joined #openttd 23:27:23 <paks2> hey folks :) 23:27:44 <xQR> it doesn't have to do much with the game though, more with what you are used to as a programmer 23:27:45 <planetmaker> probably it applies also to game scripts 23:27:48 <planetmaker> hi paks2 23:28:03 <planetmaker> it has to do all with the game, xQR 23:28:05 <xQR> i have learned most of programming things in business, so within a company 23:28:19 <xQR> so i am used to work in small teams of fixed persons 23:28:27 <xQR> so that's how i like to work 23:28:48 <planetmaker> so you can. so all do. And? 23:29:07 <planetmaker> that's all no argument for the "mine, no-one see, no-one share, no-one modify" 23:29:14 <xQR> the "what if everyone would do it?" argument is a very weak one 23:29:24 <planetmaker> ? 23:29:38 <planetmaker> simple answer is: we'd have no game 23:29:40 <planetmaker> simple 23:29:48 <paks2> any openttd editor users out there who can provide me with a quick pointer please? (sorry if I'm butting in here...) 23:29:58 <planetmaker> @topic get -3 23:29:58 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask 23:30:47 <paks2> i cant find how to change the track parameters in the editor - help please? 23:30:57 <planetmaker> what's a "track parameter"? 23:31:11 <wizetmaplestory> i have a question 23:31:20 <paks2> track type - electric/monorail/etc... 23:31:25 <wizetmaplestory> why are there heliports before air? 23:31:57 <planetmaker> track type is a drop down menu. click and hold the track button in the main toolbar 23:32:09 <wizetmaplestory> i got a question 23:32:23 <paks2> that's my problem - the button is not there... 23:32:38 <planetmaker> you mean in the scenario editor? 23:32:49 <planetmaker> the SE doesn't allow track placement 23:32:50 <paks2> i have road and water but no rail in the scenario editor 23:32:53 <wizetmaplestory> is there someone that can awnser my question 23:33:12 <planetmaker> the SE doesn't allow to build company property 23:33:36 <paks2> i'm not looking to lay track - just specify what types of track can be built 23:33:45 <wizetmaplestory> now can someone awnser my question 23:33:54 <planetmaker> you can circumvent that, paks2, by loading the scenario as game, cheat money, build what you want, save game. Rename to scn file. And continue editing in SE 23:34:07 <paks2> kk - will try 23:34:10 <planetmaker> ah. Well. Always all. It depends on the year 23:34:19 <planetmaker> and of course on the NewGRFs you chose 23:34:29 <paks2> thanks much (1900 with a monorail...^^) 23:34:29 <wizetmaplestory> now can someone awnser my question 23:34:29 <planetmaker> wizetmaplestory: learn some patience 23:34:51 <wizetmaplestory> wtf, 1900 with monrails? 23:34:54 <planetmaker> paks2: that won't happen. It's introduced in... 1980s or so 23:35:11 <wizetmaplestory> i wish we had that tech in the civil wr 23:35:14 <wizetmaplestory> war' 23:35:18 <paks2> that's why i'mtrying to chang it ... 23:35:25 <planetmaker> you won't even have rail vehicles in 1900 with the default game. Actually no vehicles at all 23:35:26 <wizetmaplestory> and jets in WWII 23:35:51 <xQR> planetmaker "mine, no-one see, no-one share, no-one modify" <-- that's not my philosophy, though 23:36:06 <planetmaker> xQR: you exercise it, though 23:36:07 <xQR> i just don't make such a fuss about publishing the code somewhere 23:36:16 <xQR> because it also means work 23:36:21 <xQR> you have to provide the download somewhere 23:36:23 <xQR> documentation 23:36:26 <xQR> answer questions 23:36:31 <wizetmaplestory> now can someone awnser my question 23:36:39 <wizetmaplestory> damn i forgot it now 23:36:41 <paks2> thanks & adios folks 23:36:45 <wizetmaplestory> oh now i remember 23:36:46 *** paks2 [~paksdm@24.231.66.199] has quit [Quit: paks2] 23:36:46 <planetmaker> I offer you free repository and free download, xqr 23:36:47 <xQR> you open the doors for many people that don't know how to properly report bugs anyway 23:37:11 <xQR> it's not about such resources, i have space and traffic and an SVN server etc. 23:37:15 <planetmaker> free issue tracker, free release builds 23:37:19 <xQR> it's about time 23:37:37 <xQR> and lots of distraction 23:37:48 <xQR> and only 1% of it being really helpful and qualified 23:38:06 <Rubidium> yup, about time to join this channel ;) 23:38:07 <wizetmaplestory> now can someone awnser my question 23:38:07 <xQR> all others are like "meh why don't we allow 5 million players on the server? here i have made you a patch..." 23:38:14 <planetmaker> hi Rubidium 23:38:25 <wizetmaplestory> hi nuclear material 23:38:46 <planetmaker> Rb is not radioactive. It's quite inert 23:38:48 <xQR> Rubidium i am too drunk to code, so i thought i'd just chat a bit until i am tired enough for sleep :P 23:39:02 <xQR> wizetmaplestory is at fault for getting me here 23:39:03 <xQR> :P 23:39:27 <xQR> about his "players need to be able to claim everything" proposal 23:39:32 <wizetmaplestory> though this isnt the name i should be using actually 23:39:40 <wizetmaplestory> once again, not ecerything 23:39:50 <wizetmaplestory> there would obviously be a limit 23:39:53 <xQR> i was simplifying :P 23:39:59 <wizetmaplestory> LIMITS 23:40:07 *** wizetmaplestory is now known as TACOS 23:40:13 <xQR> about his "players need to be able to claim everything WITHIN LIMITS" proposal 23:40:14 <xQR> better? 23:40:16 <xQR> :> 23:40:30 <TACOS> sort of 23:40:47 <TACOS> like maybe 1 or so, and not cities 23:41:01 <TACOS> but maybe shopping malls 23:41:29 <TACOS> and my company merge porposal 23:41:32 <TACOS> proposal 23:41:59 <TACOS> and why the FUCK do heliports exist when theres no air yet 23:42:01 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:42:33 <xQR> you can go there, sit at the airport bar and drink beer that costs 5 times more than normal 23:42:39 <xQR> how would you do that without an airport? 23:42:40 <xQR> or heliport 23:42:54 <TACOS> lol 23:43:00 <planetmaker> one can also say it's made for you to wonder about 23:43:06 <xQR> and that! 23:43:08 <xQR> :) 23:43:11 <planetmaker> to test your attention 23:43:20 <planetmaker> to details 23:43:26 <xQR> ssshht planetmaker, you can take it out now, someone finally noticed it 23:43:29 <planetmaker> and your self-control 23:43:32 <xQR> after 5 years 23:43:37 <TACOS> YAY 23:43:42 <planetmaker> oh damn. I guess it became standard 23:43:46 <xQR> :/ 23:44:04 <TACOS> i figured out OpenTTDs biggest Easter Egg 23:44:29 <TACOS> sadly, yogscast figured out Minecraft's biggest E egg 23:44:33 <xQR> i think now i am tired enough, time for shower and bed 23:45:10 <TACOS> 7;54 PM EST 23:45:23 <TACOS> aw fuck mosquetos 23:45:29 <xQR> [01:55:00] ⢠<TACOS> 7;54 PM EST 23:45:31 <xQR> not quite 23:45:49 <TACOS> well now its 7:55 PM EST 23:46:05 <planetmaker> mind your language... 23:46:14 <Rubidium> xQR: I'd say wizetmaplestory has a far point under the circumstance the limit is <= 0 ;) 23:46:21 <xQR> :) 23:46:52 <xQR> planetmaker before i leave: maybe it pleases you a bit when i tell you that my plan is (and has always been) to eventually release it open source - i just want to get some instabilities out first 23:46:54 <TACOS> i did get mac banned from luukland servers for talking too much 23:46:58 <Rubidium> TACOS: probably because the setting "allow building infrastructure before there are vehicles for it" is on 23:47:04 <xQR> and obviously i have to handle 524 warning messages about missing documentation 23:47:12 <Rubidium> TACOS: unlikely you got mac banned 23:47:13 <planetmaker> TACOS: not too much. But probably too vulgar 23:47:28 <xQR> considering the fact that i started at 800+ it's not even that bad, i haven't been THAT lazy 23:47:29 <TACOS> but i wasnt talking vulgar 23:47:38 <Rubidium> TACOS: unless you're at luukland's local network, but then you must be a real good friend and I would've just kicked you off that network 23:47:51 <TACOS> an admin even said 200 lines more and im banned 23:48:17 <planetmaker> *shrug* 23:48:23 <xQR> gn8 23:48:28 <planetmaker> night 23:48:36 <Rubidium> evening planetmaker ;) 23:48:46 <planetmaker> :-) "evening" 23:48:48 <Rubidium> oh, or evening xQR... maybe 23:48:53 <planetmaker> hm, for you yes 23:49:00 <TACOS> im hungry 23:49:12 <Rubidium> then go to Tims or so 23:49:32 <TACOS> what if i cant and theres nothing to eat at home 23:49:35 <xQR> [01:58:55] ⢠OTTD-5 ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED! Player TACOS has earned achievement: Identity Crisis 23:49:43 <xQR> just to let you know who you are talking to 23:49:45 <xQR> be careful :P 23:50:14 <xQR> in case you don't know who you are talking to - he doesn't know either :D 23:50:41 <TACOS> LOL 23:50:54 <Rubidium> TACOS: catch mosquitos and eat them 23:50:57 <TACOS> and i found it in the IRC channel 23:51:09 <TACOS> one thing is, i never catch the mosquetos 23:51:25 <TACOS> imma make a microwave burrito 23:52:16 <Rubidium> yuck... microwave food 23:54:02 <TACOS> better than air 23:55:02 <TACOS> shit im sweating 23:55:26 <TACOS> why did the A/C have to catch on fire -- 23:55:32 <TACOS> -.- 23:55:48 <TACOS> dont ask 23:56:15 <Rubidium> gosh... were you a tour guide this morning on a Toronto tour bus? 23:56:57 <Rubidium> if so, hi Morgan, and that's for making it a quiz why something was the way it is and always having the answer "because a fire"