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07:20:10 <andythenorth> it will require a 'proceed on sight of clear path ahead' 07:20:13 <Supercheese> 45 degree turns with trucks would indeed be verrrry cool 07:20:40 <andythenorth> i.e. reserving a path for the next n clear tiles, n to be modulated by stopping distance 07:20:50 <andythenorth> I am thinking mining trucks 07:21:05 <andythenorth> using rail would allow them to be properly large 07:21:51 <andythenorth> it would be annoying however to have to build signals on every tile, hence new pathfinder 07:27:46 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]] 07:35:26 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-66-115-249-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 07:41:37 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:52:21 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has joined #openttd 07:52:24 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:59:52 <TomyLobo> how do i remove a newgrf from a save? 08:05:47 <planetmaker> there is no way 08:05:51 <planetmaker> start a new game 08:06:03 <TomyLobo> [23:58:49] <Beul> andythenorth, removing a newgrf that ads a new rail type causes some interesting behavour but not even that managed to crash the game:p 08:06:06 <planetmaker> removing NewGRFs usually leaves the savegame in a broken state 08:06:29 <TomyLobo> well i dont want to play it with that newgrf anyway 08:06:43 <TomyLobo> (that newgrf killed passenger cars) 08:07:17 <andythenorth> :| 08:07:18 <planetmaker> When you enable the newgrf_developer setting you can do that indeed. But ... don't, if you are not developing newgrfs 08:07:25 <andythenorth> TomyLobo it's just the way it works 08:07:42 <andythenorth> nobody likes it this way, but we are where we are ;) 08:07:55 <TomyLobo> planetmaker i am prepared to shoot myself in the foot, dont worry :) 08:08:31 <planetmaker> TomyLobo: as soon as you enable developer tools your support is void. Don't come asking and wondering about crashes, oddities or strange behaviour 08:09:31 <TomyLobo> i realize that 08:09:33 <planetmaker> and, btw, don't expect oddities to show immediately in your game then. It might even only show after several game years or so 08:09:47 <planetmaker> as such: one tempered savegame has lost warranty forever 08:10:25 <TomyLobo> hrm, it didnt bring back the passenger cars 08:10:30 <planetmaker> exactly 08:10:52 <TomyLobo> it was worth the try :) 08:11:01 <planetmaker> I could have told you ;-) 08:11:14 <planetmaker> you cannot bring back vehicles by removing newgrfs ;-) 08:12:08 <TomyLobo> any other idea? :) 08:12:14 <planetmaker> start a new game? 08:12:20 <TomyLobo> they expired thanks to that newgrf 08:12:27 <planetmaker> choose your newgrfs carefully before starting a game 08:12:52 <TomyLobo> the newgrf doesnt list an introduction date, or i would just set it to that and see what happens 08:13:01 <andythenorth> try reset_engines in console 08:13:14 <planetmaker> check briefly ingame whether you got everything. Quit, modify newgrf list and test again. Until you find a combination which works for you 08:13:37 *** eQualizer|dada [~lauri@xdsl-77-86-206-91.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:10 <andythenorth> TomyLobo: this issue is known to suck 08:14:29 <planetmaker> indeed quite so 08:14:34 <andythenorth> issues come up like 'play for 70 years, then discover that there's no vehicles to transport cargo x' 08:14:49 <andythenorth> or such 08:15:10 * andythenorth favours recommended combinations of known-good grfs 08:15:16 <andythenorth> which might come with new banaaananaas 08:16:04 <TomyLobo> 8/32bpp Trains 2CC is that newgrf 08:16:15 * andythenorth goes back to converting FISH to nml 08:17:02 <TomyLobo> reset_engines worked, thanks :) 08:17:46 <andythenorth> converting to nml is....interesting 08:17:54 * andythenorth ponders scraping the nfo for current values 08:18:20 <andythenorth> ho 08:18:24 <andythenorth> what would be nice is.... 08:18:41 <andythenorth> ...a tool that could take a grf, and output a csv of all the vehicle action 0 properties 08:19:00 <andythenorth> this would, incidentally be useful for other things 08:19:20 <andythenorth> for example, bundles server could run it to provide a manifest of vehicles in a grf automatically 08:19:24 <andythenorth> as could bananas 08:19:24 <Alberth> there is an nfo parser in the nml issue tracker :p 08:19:30 <Alberth> moin andy, pm 08:19:43 <andythenorth> lo 08:19:52 <andythenorth> JSON might be better than csv 08:20:06 <Alberth> a wiki with useful combinations perhaps? 08:20:15 <andythenorth> perhaps 08:20:19 <Alberth> xml! 08:20:51 <andythenorth> xml would fit with my xml-driven grf framework 08:20:57 * Alberth has been doing xml processing for 2 days :p 08:21:44 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d823b77.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 08:22:54 <Rubidium> oh, come on... why XML? 08:23:09 <Rubidium> use SGML. Much more versatile 08:24:32 <Alberth> I know, I have the annotated standard here, and have even read most of it 08:25:26 <Alberth> but standard Python does not come with sgml 08:25:30 * andythenorth uses xml because that's what the templater uses :P 08:25:59 <andythenorth> it may sound like insanity, but the data is not xml 08:26:06 <andythenorth> but the template code is 08:26:12 <andythenorth> what larks 08:28:32 <Alberth> php conquerored the world with it, so it gets copied everywhere, no matter how conceptually broken it is :) 08:29:03 *** roadt_ [~roadt@114.96.131.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:29:29 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1505/ 08:30:15 *** kkimlabs_ [~kkimlabs@ip-64-134-42-7.public.wayport.net] has quit [Quit: Rage Quit] 08:30:21 <andythenorth> using xml-valid templating languages means that html dev tools don't explode 08:31:53 *** chlorine [~chlorine@tru75-4-82-227-168-156.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 08:32:02 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you know grf2html? "a tool that could take a grf, and output a csv of all the vehicle action 0 properties" 08:32:04 <chlorine> hello 08:32:11 <planetmaker> hello Alberth 08:32:18 <planetmaker> and all others :-) 08:32:30 <chlorine> :p 08:36:30 <andythenorth> planetmaker: good point. maybe it could output json 08:39:36 *** DOUK [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-117-164.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 08:40:42 <andythenorth> ach 08:40:55 <andythenorth> I suppose you people like your buy menu sprites in the right place 08:41:44 * andythenorth grumbles and invents new properties :P 08:41:51 *** roadt_ [~roadt@114.96.131.196] has joined #openttd 08:44:10 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24364 /trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt: -Fix-ish: Slovak compilation failure 08:45:56 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 08:46:15 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24365 /trunk/ (Makefile.lang.in Makefile.setting.in config.lib): -Fix-ish: add C(XX)FLAGS_BUILD to all the executables that are compiled for the build enviroment 08:56:12 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-89.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:56:21 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-59-96.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:59:37 <LordAro> mornings 09:00:53 <chlorine> Hi 09:02:17 <andythenorth> hmm 09:02:30 <andythenorth> why do offsets differ between nml and nfo? :P 09:04:00 <andythenorth> the x offs seems to be different by about 30pz 09:04:02 <Alberth> hi LordAro 09:04:03 <andythenorth> px * 09:05:47 <andythenorth> ho 09:06:05 <andythenorth> it's the buy menu string leading spacing missing; nothing to see here :P 09:08:50 <LordAro> i been doing some codings: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1506/ 09:08:58 <LordAro> trouble is, it doesn't work :) 09:12:35 <Alberth> that is the usual trouble with code :) 09:14:27 <LordAro> i know where it is failing (this->filename seems to be valid _only_ when the file download is in progress) but i can't see anything else to use... 09:14:31 <LordAro> help? :) 09:15:03 <andythenorth> offsetting text by n pixels in newgrf <- deprecated? 09:15:17 <andythenorth> use NBSP instead, and expect font size issues? 09:20:49 <andythenorth> Ammler / planetmaker I can't push as I have .pyc files in my repo, any suggestions? 09:21:21 <planetmaker> andythenorth: intention or error? 09:21:27 <andythenorth> error 09:21:35 <andythenorth> I don't know how it happened, they are in my ignore file 09:21:56 <andythenorth> I've used hg forget 09:21:56 <planetmaker> I'll temporarily disable the commit hook 09:21:59 <andythenorth> thanks 09:22:35 *** Wakou [~stephen@host86-129-34-31.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:23:52 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 09:23:54 <planetmaker> try again, andythenorth 09:24:07 <andythenorth> done thanks 09:25:10 <planetmaker> I'll re-enable it. Or is it not useful (due to needing manual intervention)? 09:25:23 <Terkhen> good morning 09:25:27 <andythenorth> I think it's useful 09:25:30 <planetmaker> hello Terkhen 09:25:33 <planetmaker> ok, re-enabled 09:25:48 <andythenorth> I'm not sure, but I think putting compiled python bytecode on the server might be a possible attack vector 09:26:05 <andythenorth> lo Terkhen 09:27:21 <andythenorth> FISH auto-refit creeps a bit closer 09:27:38 <Ammler> hmm, why didn't you remove the pyc files instead force-push it? 09:28:13 <Ammler> also, you can have a custom ini file in your repo to allow it 09:30:59 <Terkhen> nice :D 09:32:09 <andythenorth> how do I remove the .pyc from an older rev? Except by doing dangerous things with strip? 09:32:27 <Ammler> why should strip be dangerous? 09:32:50 <Ammler> or convert 09:33:18 <Ammler> it can't be that old revs as it is in the newer revs you push 09:33:26 <andythenorth> removing revs further down the tree seems dangerous to me 09:33:51 <andythenorth> I'd sooner diff all changes, delete my local repo and clone new 09:34:20 <Ammler> now, it is too late, you have already a "broken" repo on the server :-) 09:36:17 <TomyLobo> Ammler i have no idea what andythenorth's situation is, but you do know "git log -g", right? 09:36:39 <andythenorth> I'd have to install git for that :P 09:36:50 <TomyLobo> oh, hg? 09:37:19 <TomyLobo> if you're using mercurial, then you're probably fucked, yeah 09:37:41 <andythenorth> yup 09:37:50 <andythenorth> I like mercurial, but I should probably learn git :P 09:38:01 <andythenorth> I don't like svn much, but I've yet to break a repo with it 09:38:08 <andythenorth> whereas I regularly break hg repos 09:39:17 <TomyLobo> yeah breaking svn *repos*, no 09:39:24 <TomyLobo> working copies? uh.... once a week? 09:57:05 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-89.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:07:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host109-153-144-220.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:09:11 *** eQualizer [~lauri@dyn60-236.yok.fi] has joined #openttd 10:12:29 *** mal2_ [~mal2@port-92-206-87-88.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:17:29 <Alberth> you should explain your tools not to touch stuff in .svn directories :p 10:19:27 <Alberth> wouldn't it be an idea if nml projects used a unique prefix for their language files? Having several "english.lng" files in one download directory causes chaos :( 10:19:50 *** mal2 [~mal2@port-92-206-59-96.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:20:09 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-027-100.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 10:29:37 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host-2-101-102-223.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 10:41:05 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 10:41:10 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:44:01 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1825 10:44:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host109-153-144-220.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:44:32 <Alberth> two andys, now you can work twice as fast! 10:44:36 <andythenorth> oh dear 10:45:20 <Alberth> :) 10:45:23 <TomyLobo> Alberth you mean tortoisesvn? :P 10:47:25 <Alberth> TomyLobo: you use a graphical frontend for svn, yet know about log -g which is not even in the short help of git log??? 10:47:29 *** Guest1825 [~Andy@host-2-101-102-223.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:47:45 <TomyLobo> the svn command line client sucks 10:47:59 <Alberth> try the git command-line :p 10:48:02 <TomyLobo> all graphical frontends for git suck 10:48:20 <Alberth> they do for every VCS 10:48:21 <TomyLobo> that should explain my preferences :) 10:48:33 <TomyLobo> oh, tsvn is ok 10:48:46 <TomyLobo> makes SVN's problems somewhat bearable 10:50:53 <Alberth> I have no problems with svn, just need to be a bit careful with directory shuffling, and branch-updating 10:52:14 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.45.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:52:53 <TomyLobo> SVN is slow, it has a confusing way to make branches and tags, you cannot commit locally with most clients 10:53:14 <TomyLobo> and many times, the SVN working base's size even exceeds a git repo's size 10:58:36 <TrueBrain> did he just say SVN is slower than git? Lolz.. that is just a lie :D (sorry, didn't read anything else, that just made me giggle) 10:58:46 <Alberth> how is cp semantics confusing? 10:59:01 <Alberth> and w.r.t. clients, blame the clients, not svn 10:59:05 <TomyLobo> TrueBrain some guy made benchmarks, lemme find the link 10:59:20 <TrueBrain> do a random git clone, and do a random svn checkout ... you will know which one is the slow one :P 10:59:23 <TrueBrain> hint: it is not subversion :D 10:59:58 <TrueBrain> "some guy", now the trustworthy links come :D 10:59:58 <TomyLobo> TrueBrain you do realize that git clone fetches the entire history (by default)? 11:00:11 <TrueBrain> so ....... how does that matter from a user perspective? 11:00:34 <TomyLobo> you can diff and blame locally 11:00:49 <TrueBrain> that indeed is a good reason why svn is slower 11:01:10 <TomyLobo> switch branches locally, retrieve logs locally 11:01:31 <Alberth> make two svn working copies 11:01:31 <TrueBrain> if that is your measurement of 'slow', than you are very good in comparing apples with oranges 11:01:34 <TrueBrain> concratz to that :) 11:01:52 <TrueBrain> like saying Wordpad is slower than Netbeans :) 11:02:04 <TomyLobo> TrueBrain how about oranges and oranges then... git is also faster than hg on most operations 11:02:16 <TrueBrain> "on most", except the checkout and commit operations 11:02:22 <TrueBrain> which are, in my opinion, the most important onces 11:02:25 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:37 <TrueBrain> but that is acomplete different story .. SVn was the topic 11:02:40 <TomyLobo> no, it's really only slower on a huge commit 11:02:50 <TomyLobo> err 11:02:54 <TomyLobo> add, not commit 11:02:57 <TomyLobo> think hundreds of files 11:03:06 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 11:03:19 <TomyLobo> meh the page with git vs hg comparison vanished 11:03:26 <TomyLobo> now it's only comparison with svn :/ 11:03:30 <TrueBrain> its easy to now start comparing Netbeans to Eclipse, but you were comparing it with Wordpad, so .. 11:03:43 <TomyLobo> http://git-scm.com/about#small-and-fast 11:04:14 <Alberth> haha, yeah, that looks like an objective document :D 11:04:17 <TrueBrain> so your source that SVN is slow, is on a git-specific website? 11:04:20 <TrueBrain> impressive choice ... 11:04:51 <TomyLobo> well, you pick one that proves your opinion 11:05:12 <TrueBrain> open any CLI, do a svn checkout of OpenTTD, do a git checkout of OpenTTD 11:05:14 <TomyLobo> the one that proved mine was apparently popular with the git people and is now hosted by them 11:05:15 <TrueBrain> take a stopwatch if you like 11:05:32 <TomyLobo> TrueBrain you mean it has both svn and git? 11:05:39 <TrueBrain> just read what you are saying .. a page saying Git is better is popular with git people ... owh realy? :P 11:05:39 <TomyLobo> or are you talking about git-svn? 11:05:52 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD has SVN, git and hg 11:06:07 <TomyLobo> and not some kind of gateway? 11:06:35 <TrueBrain> I doubt gateways as such exists, as that would be highly impossible/unlikely 11:06:57 <TomyLobo> github has an svn gateway 11:07:13 <TrueBrain> at best you can import svn commits into a git repos 11:07:23 <TrueBrain> which is not really a gateway in any sense 11:07:26 <TomyLobo> take a look at git-svn 11:07:31 <TomyLobo> it works both ways 11:07:34 <TrueBrain> git-svn is an IMPORT script 11:07:37 <TrueBrain> (and export, but meh) 11:07:48 <TomyLobo> no, that'd be git-svnimport :D 11:07:59 <TrueBrain> I suggest you read up how git-svn works 11:08:06 <Beul> * andythenorth ponders doing trucks as a railtype 11:08:06 <Beul> <andythenorth> oh dear 11:08:06 <Beul> * andythenorth is now considering it seriously 11:08:11 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:08:12 <Beul> great idea 11:08:33 <TomyLobo> TrueBrain i could suggest you the same 11:08:42 <TrueBrain> you could;but I already know 11:08:49 <Beul> as I discovered yesterday, you can make some pretty awsome features with new rail types! 11:09:39 <TomyLobo> git-svn marks the imported commits so it can reassociate them with the svn repo. it can push new commits easily that way 11:09:53 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: git-svn is a perfectly good two-way interface. How do you think my commits arrive at the SVN server? 11:10:11 <TomyLobo> magic 11:10:55 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: well aware; but a two-way interface !== a gateway :) 11:11:15 <TrueBrain> git-svn is a import/export tool, automated, hooked into git (pretty neat btw) 11:11:42 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 11:11:53 <TrueBrain> a gateway would suggest I can also do a svn checkout of a git repos 11:12:20 <TomyLobo> you can check out svn repos with git-svn 11:12:49 <TrueBrain> and now read what I said, and you see there is a miss-match 11:12:51 <TomyLobo> and you can check out git repos on github with svn 11:12:57 <TrueBrain> hence, not a gateway :) 11:13:10 <TomyLobo> svn.github.com/user/project i think 11:13:46 <michi_cc> And as for the speed, your mileage will always vary, but checkout/clone is the most unimportant command to measure. I'm not doing a clone every five minutes, but I am using status/log/diff/etc, and for everything that does not operate on the very latest revision, svn is principally slower. 11:14:13 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: heavily depends on usage, and many many many other constraints 11:14:18 <TrueBrain> much more important: it is silly to compare apples with oranges 11:14:39 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:14:42 *** Chris_Booth[ph]_ [~chrisboot@31.92.181.85] has joined #openttd 11:14:52 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: as it is not SVN that is slow. It is the design that demands other conditions 11:15:18 <TrueBrain> it is like saying Wordpad is slower than Netbeans, because in Netbeans you can open files easier 11:15:20 <TomyLobo> the design is from another time 11:15:21 <TrueBrain> it makes little sense 11:16:24 <michi_cc> Of course, it is mostly the network that is slow, but from the end-user perspective only the result counts. 11:16:58 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: get a 100/100 :P 11:16:59 <Alberth> Beul: amazing cablecars newgrf! 11:17:26 *** plastics [~plastics@c-69-138-42-222.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 11:17:36 <TomyLobo> the only 2 conditions i'd see that svn fulfills better than git are 1. faster checkout 2. tight access control to the repo 11:17:53 <TrueBrain> euh ... you forget one very important one: 11:17:56 <TrueBrain> centralized 11:18:01 <Alberth> eh, svn is fatser on checkout now? 11:18:03 <TomyLobo> that's part of 2. 11:18:09 <TrueBrain> it is the reason why you compare oranges with apples .. 11:18:11 <Alberth> *faster 11:18:14 <TrueBrain> it has nothing to do with access 11:18:16 <TomyLobo> Alberth if the repo is large enough, yes 11:18:26 <TomyLobo> on small repos, git is faster again :P 11:18:26 <TrueBrain> decentralized vs centralized are two very different methods of solving this "VCS" issue 11:18:45 <andythenorth> so how does this FISH thing work? :P 11:18:49 <Alberth> TomyLobo: small repos are non-interesting, as it is fast enough either way 11:18:51 *** FLHerne_ [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:19:00 <andythenorth> seems that some ships can refit PAX and mail only 11:19:05 <TomyLobo> Alberth yeah, hence i only mentioned the large ones 11:19:15 <andythenorth> others refit all cargos, or freight only 11:19:16 <andythenorth> what larks 11:20:00 * andythenorth wonders how many CMS properties are needed to handle this 11:20:01 <andythenorth> one or two 11:20:17 <TomyLobo> ok, tsvn took 21s to check out a shallow copy 11:20:48 * andythenorth wonders what the FISH rewrite should do about smoke 11:20:51 <TomyLobo> fatal: dumb http transport does not support --depth 11:21:00 <TomyLobo> do you have ssh-based git too? 11:21:23 <TomyLobo> or maybe git:// 11:21:26 *** Chris_Booth[ph]_ [~chrisboot@31.92.181.85] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:22:10 <TrueBrain> have you tried it? 11:22:33 <planetmaker> you're completely re-writing fish and heqs, andythenorth? 11:22:34 <Beul> Alberth: tnx :) 11:22:41 <andythenorth> planetmaker: converting FISH to nml 11:22:42 <TomyLobo> actually, no 11:22:49 <andythenorth> ideally with no loss of features :P 11:22:58 <andythenorth> due to mistakes :) 11:23:03 <TomyLobo> currently making a full clone 11:23:09 <TomyLobo> and yeah, that takes some time 11:23:16 <planetmaker> nice, andythenorth :-) 11:23:23 <andythenorth> I'll do HEQS later, but it will be a v2, with new features 11:23:30 <TomyLobo> not surprising with a repo containing tens of thousands of revisions 11:23:41 <TomyLobo> and of course the binary files 11:23:52 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-a1cfe455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:23:59 <TomyLobo> git doesn't delta-compress binary files (yet) 11:24:09 <Beul> Alberth, actualy, the new tunnel grf that I coded could (unintentionally) also add cablecars:p 11:24:29 <Alberth> :) 11:24:44 <TomyLobo> TrueBrain that took like 5 seconds :D 11:24:46 <TomyLobo> git clone git://git.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.git/ openttd-git-shallow --depth 1 11:24:47 <andythenorth> so I should do mining trucks as trains? 11:25:09 <Alberth> Beul: those unintentional side effects are usually giving the best result :) 11:25:14 <TomyLobo> it's as useless as an SVN checkout though 11:25:55 <Beul> Well, they gave me the idea for that grf indeed, but ideally I would like to be able to disable them in the tunnel grf 11:26:04 <TomyLobo> mind if i push the full repo to github and see if i can clone it from there faster? 11:26:13 <Beul> Would that be posible currently? 11:26:32 <Alberth> TomyLobo: I'd be surprised if it is not already there somewhere 11:26:35 <TomyLobo> pushing? sure... but syncing it probably not 11:26:44 <TomyLobo> Alberth likely an old version though 11:26:56 <TrueBrain> have you checked? 11:27:07 <TrueBrain> so easy to widely guess stuff .. but opening the page would give you an aswer immediatly 11:27:13 <TrueBrain> and you will know your assumption was wrong :P 11:27:20 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I don't think so, I like to be able to run them on normal roads for short distances 11:27:58 <Alberth> Beul: no idea, I don't speak newgrf at all :) 11:28:01 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-a1cfe455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 11:28:01 <andythenorth> I could make them enormous though :) 11:28:01 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 11:28:29 <TrueBrain> s/wrong/wrong or not/, hmm, parts fell off 11:28:42 <TrueBrain> I think faster than I type! Where is the fucking bionic interface :( 11:29:16 <Alberth> we wouldn't be able to process that amount of information ;) 11:29:37 <TrueBrain> don't brains only work at like 100 bits per second or something silly? 11:29:53 <andythenorth> I think they go faster, but consciousness lags 11:29:59 <TomyLobo> but highly parallel :) 11:30:20 <TrueBrain> new excuse: "sorry, but my concious was lagging" 11:30:42 <Beul> TrueBrain, I think faster than I can do anything, I want a bionic interface to build real stuff, do engeneering calculations, type and make real nice gaphics 11:31:07 <TomyLobo> pushing the entire repo to github tooki hear reality has nice graphics 11:31:11 <TomyLobo> fffff 11:31:23 <TomyLobo> i hear reality has nice graphics, but the user interface sucks 11:31:31 <Beul> lol 11:31:45 <Beul> getting a bit out of hand here 11:32:20 <andythenorth> what happens if I set action 0 capacity to 0? No refits? 11:32:47 <TomyLobo> pushing the entire repo to github took about 3.5 minutes 11:34:06 <Beul> TomyLobo: http://my.opera.com/zomg/blog/2007/03/01/outside-new-mmorpg-from-the-creators-of 11:34:25 <TomyLobo> lol 11:36:32 <TomyLobo> git clone git@github.com:TomyLobo/openttd.git openttd-git-github - 2:24 until i get my prompt back 11:36:47 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:36:53 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:38:06 <Beul> on a more ttD related note: is there anybody that knows if is is posible to disable certain new railtype objects from construction? 11:38:37 <Beul> for example constructing track 11:39:12 * andythenorth has nml feature suggestion 11:39:12 * Beul railises it sounds quite stupid to prevent track construction in a new tail type 11:39:33 <TomyLobo> apparently the git protocol is faster for shallow copies 11:39:37 <andythenorth> 'is_refittable' is a stupid property for ships; nml should set it automatically if refittable classes exist 11:39:41 <TomyLobo> quite a bit even 11:40:21 <TomyLobo> 28s ssh, 13s git:// 11:40:28 <Beul> andythenorth, good point imo 11:42:40 <TomyLobo> 1:10 until i get my prompt back after "git clone git://github.com/TomyLobo/openttd.git openttd-git-github-gitproto" 11:43:26 <andythenorth> hmm 11:43:35 * andythenorth wtfs at setting refitted capacity in nml 11:43:56 <Xaroth> TomyLobo: get a faster pc? 11:44:10 <TomyLobo> Xaroth it's reasonably fast 11:44:18 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:d51b:9803:c151:c43a] has joined #openttd 11:44:21 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 11:44:22 <TomyLobo> the repo is huge 11:44:27 <Xaroth> define 'reasonably' ... 11:44:43 <Xaroth> my grandmother is reasonably fast 11:44:54 <TomyLobo> lol 11:45:00 <andythenorth> in cb36, nfo var 47 maps to 'cargo_classes_in_consist' 11:45:03 <andythenorth> for the record ^ 11:45:12 <TomyLobo> pheonom ii x4 3.2 ghz 11:45:22 <andythenorth> in case anyone else was playing 'guess the var name' with the nml spec 11:45:24 <TomyLobo> pheonom ii x4 955 3.2 ghz 11:45:37 <TomyLobo> no ssd 11:45:38 <Xaroth> you're missing the point 11:45:56 <andythenorth> I'm rarely waiting on my vcs 11:46:02 <andythenorth> and if I do, it's thinking time 11:46:03 <TomyLobo> Xaroth what else do you want to know? 11:46:15 <Xaroth> your definition of reasonably. 11:46:25 <andythenorth> hmm 11:46:28 <TomyLobo> it plays all the games i want to play 11:46:44 * andythenorth runs into the 'wtf is the correct weight of mail, goods etc' 11:46:47 <TomyLobo> it doesnt usually lag on everyday work 11:46:48 <andythenorth> anybody care to make bids 11:46:51 <TomyLobo> what else? 11:47:31 <Alberth> andythenorth: mail is about the same as paper 11:47:50 <TomyLobo> except if someone's mailing rocks 11:48:18 <Alberth> goods are lighter (mostly just air) 11:48:19 <TomyLobo> or uranium 11:48:26 <andythenorth> Alberth: :) 11:48:50 <andythenorth> so which of the game's inconsistent uses of mail / goods weight should I be consistent with? 11:48:54 <TomyLobo> dear mother, here is the uranium block i promised to mail you. love, your son 11:49:10 <andythenorth> currently this ship carries 52t freight, or 52 bags mail 11:49:10 <Alberth> andythenorth: the first one that comes to mind 11:49:16 <Beul> Alberth, i beg to differ, as paper wil usualy be stacked much more compact, thus making it heavier 11:49:23 <andythenorth> 1 mailbag = 1t in that case 11:49:27 <Beul> than mail 11:49:33 <andythenorth> brb - food 11:49:35 <Alberth> heavy mailbags :) 11:49:49 <Alberth> Beul: some people are sending uranium over the mail :p 11:50:08 <Alberth> but in general, I agree :) 11:51:57 <TomyLobo> 1:22 to make a full clone through git:// 11:52:16 <TomyLobo> from the openttd.org repo 11:52:45 <TomyLobo> so that's 4 times the time of an SVN checkout or 1 minute and 1 second longer 11:53:04 <TomyLobo> i'd say that's not too long a wait :) 11:54:27 <Terkhen> with mercurial I keep a clean clone of the remote repo, and then clone all of my repositories from the local "central" repository 11:54:32 <Terkhen> I suppose that you can do the same in git 11:54:46 <Terkhen> and that's faster :) 11:57:29 <TomyLobo> Terkhen yep, shallow copy takes 1/4 the time of an svn checkout :D 11:58:03 <TomyLobo> well i didnt measure it, hold on 11:58:18 <Terkhen> that's on windows or linux? 11:58:25 <TomyLobo> windows 11:58:31 <TomyLobo> on linux it'd be even faster 11:59:05 *** roadt_ [~roadt@114.96.131.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:00:26 <TomyLobo> svn checkout and git working copy+repo are about the same size :D 12:00:48 <Beul> Alberth: speaking of unintended side effects: http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/6687/isitabird.png 12:01:15 <TomyLobo> svn: 74 (86 on disk), git: 85 (88 on disk) 12:03:11 <Alberth> Beul: there is a much easier way, just make bridges invisible :p 12:03:12 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196.215.173.106] has joined #openttd 12:04:55 <Beul> Alberth: that would not be unintended 12:05:50 <Alberth> TomyLobo: that's great and all, but I don't pick a VCS based on how fast or slow it is. "Reasonable" is fast enough in practice. 12:06:04 <TomyLobo> Alberth i don't, either 12:06:12 <Alberth> Beul: true 12:06:29 <TomyLobo> it's just that TrueBrain is saying SVN is faster than git at what it does 12:06:47 <Alberth> so? 12:06:52 *** telanus [~telanus@196.215.173.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:06:54 <TomyLobo> he's lying 12:07:33 <Alberth> TomyLobo: don't you know you can prove anything you like with numbers/statistics? 12:07:35 <TrueBrain> euh .. don't start twisting my words there 12:07:44 <TrueBrain> you said SVN is slow. Which is unfounded, and untrue 12:08:34 <Alberth> Beul: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2165955/Death-Star-spotted-lurking-near-rings-Saturn---luckily-just-bizarre-moons-solar-system.html does this count? :) 12:08:40 <planetmaker> I really love these VCS fundamentalists :-) 12:08:43 <TomyLobo> if i wanted to say something unfounded and (probably) untrue, i'd say you're working for tigris 12:09:01 <andythenorth> how about a patch 12:09:19 <andythenorth> I need to have two grfs with the same ID both active 12:09:20 <Alberth> TomyLobo: subversion has moved 12:09:26 <TomyLobo> oh? 12:09:47 <planetmaker> Alberth: Beul: invisible bridges are... somewhat problematic. You'd remove them for all infra types. And there's only 11 different ones 12:10:27 <Alberth> planetmaker: who need visible bridges, they are just in the way to see what happens under it :) 12:10:30 <planetmaker> Beul: and I'd also like to congratulate you on your nice grf work 12:10:42 <planetmaker> looks very nice 12:10:48 <SpComb> http://fabiensanglard.net/quake3/qvm.php 12:11:27 <Beul> ty planetmaker, I think Alberth meant makeing bridges transparent not making them invisible like i did with the tracks:p 12:11:34 <Beul> *making 12:11:51 <planetmaker> invisible = ingame function, transparent = sprite level? 12:12:08 <planetmaker> hm... both is an ingame GUI option... :-P 12:12:14 <Alberth> Beul: they are non-visible either way :) 12:12:19 <planetmaker> but I think you talked about sprite levels, right? 12:12:28 <oskari89> Does NML support waypoints? 12:12:35 * Beul is getting confused now 12:13:19 <planetmaker> oskari89: no, it doesn't support stations (which waypoints are a special kind of) 12:13:21 <planetmaker> sadly 12:13:35 <planetmaker> Beul: sorry, nvm me then :-) 12:13:50 <Alberth> nml development is not moving very fast, is it? 12:13:57 <andythenorth> not right now 12:13:59 <planetmaker> sadly, no 12:14:02 <oskari89> May be a big project to include stations to NML? 12:14:18 * Beul also wonders if planetmaker knows a way to disable building tracks for the mew tunnel grf 12:14:22 <oskari89> It would significantly accelerate station projects, though :) 12:14:23 <planetmaker> oskari89: sure. And tbh, anyone would be our guest 12:14:35 <planetmaker> oskari89: it's on my wishlist definitely 12:14:36 <Beul> (don't think it is possible without a patch thoug? 12:14:39 <andythenorth> nfo station spec is a right arse 12:14:51 <planetmaker> Beul: there's no such way 12:14:56 <andythenorth> the station spec lacks sense, it's madness 12:15:00 <andythenorth> as are the docs 12:15:56 <oskari89> And there's very little people who have coded stations :P 12:16:03 * Beul braces for bug reports with URTP grf then 12:16:08 <planetmaker> Beul: and tbh, a patch I see for that is rather on the line of a flag for the tunnel portal which says "special entrance" which allows to build new objects (or possibly anything) on top 12:16:16 <Alberth> oskari89: three guesses why :) 12:16:19 <andythenorth> try making sense of this :P http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Stations#Sprite_layout_.2809.29 12:16:30 <planetmaker> Beul: which would be 50% of the so-called custom bridge and tunnel heads 12:16:49 *** SomeoneMcMe [6d98c003@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 12:16:59 <SomeoneMcMe> Hello? 12:17:05 <Alberth> hi 12:17:18 <SomeoneMcMe> Anyone what to play on my sever? 12:17:28 <Xaroth> this isn't the place to ask :) 12:17:37 <SomeoneMcMe> :C sorry 12:17:47 <Alberth> very few players here :) 12:17:47 <Beul> planetmaker, I would shurely agree, but writing patches is beyond my capabilities atm 12:18:15 * andythenorth seeks help with converting FISH to nml 12:18:29 <andythenorth> I have a buy menu string that describes refitted capacities 12:18:40 <andythenorth> can't make my brain figure out how to put the numbers in 12:18:50 <Alberth> Xaroth: do you know a better channel? 12:19:10 <planetmaker> andythenorth: similar to openttd strings: 12:19:24 <planetmaker> STR_BLAH: This displays {NUM} numbers in this string 12:19:40 <andythenorth> thanks. it's wrapped in some if / else condition stuff I need to figure out too 12:19:46 <Alberth> number{P "" "s"} actually :) 12:19:47 <andythenorth> I'm probably nesting a stack of substrings I think 12:19:57 *** SomeoneMcMe [6d98c003@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 12:19:58 <planetmaker> Right Alberth :-) 12:20:03 <andythenorth> BANDIT does this , but Eddi|zuHause solved it for me :P 12:20:30 <Beul> does using the maintenance_cost callback make a grf incompatible with versions lower than 1.2.0? 12:20:53 <Beul> or will it simply ignore the callback? 12:21:49 <planetmaker> it will not work 12:22:15 <planetmaker> unless you include the maintence cost callback conditionally, depending on the openttd version 12:22:26 <planetmaker> but tbh, Beul: stop caring about pre-1.2.0 OpenTTD ;-) 12:22:45 <TrueBrain> there is no pre 1.2.0 :P 12:22:48 * TrueBrain removes some binaries 12:22:51 * TrueBrain looks inocent 12:22:51 <planetmaker> a huge load of newgrf things were added in that version which make newgrf developer life so much easier 12:23:06 <andythenorth> eurasia was always at war with eastasia 12:23:41 <planetmaker> Beul: and the audience plays 1.2.0 or later anyway 12:25:01 <Beul> the reason I would like to be able to use it in earlier versions than 1.2.0 is to use it with CillCore's patchpack 12:25:20 <planetmaker> Beul: for what it's worth: all NewGRFs I changed since December won't work on OpenTTD prior to 1.2.0 12:25:36 <planetmaker> Beul: also ChillCore will create a new version of his PP. Or so I read 12:25:58 <planetmaker> And the next major OpenGFX won't work on pre-1.2.0 OpenTTD anymore either 12:26:22 <Alberth> Beul: in open source, anything older than a year or so is dead :) 12:28:53 <planetmaker> Beul: you mean the maintenance cost property, not callback, right? Or of what thing do you speak of? 12:29:12 * TomyLobo just built 2 airports at the opposing ends of his city 12:29:22 <Beul> yeah, used the worng term once again 12:29:31 <TomyLobo> intercontinentals 12:29:53 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/swedishrails/repository/revisions/5c9850bd1c77/entry/src/railtypes.pnml#L499 <-- conditionally including a property 12:29:59 <Beul> property is what I meant indeed:p 12:30:13 <Beul> ty 12:30:44 <Beul> like this one: 12:30:44 <Beul> @kamnet - surely it won't be too long (tm) that the patchpack is updated to 1.2.1 compatibility? 12:31:04 <Beul> especially (tm) 12:33:01 <planetmaker> rather this: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=61399 12:33:10 <andythenorth> converting FISH to nml is quite quick to do 12:33:48 <planetmaker> :-) 12:34:00 <planetmaker> it's a relatively simple NewGRF, is it andythenorth? 12:34:02 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.45.180] has joined #openttd 12:34:22 <planetmaker> technically speaking. Except maybe the wood rafts 12:34:32 <planetmaker> and the many wakes :-) 12:35:05 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-a1cfe455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:35:06 <andythenorth> the wood rafts will need special case 12:35:25 <Beul> planetmaker: saw that thread as well would be very nice to have an new clean patchpack from him 12:35:31 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I need to try converting to the new makefile 12:36:05 <planetmaker> andythenorth: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/make-nml/repository <-- that's my rewrite 12:37:41 <planetmaker> hm... I just wonder whether it's missing the essential parts :-O 12:38:34 <andythenorth> today would be a good day for me to test it 12:38:43 <planetmaker> lol. It is missing the dir with the makefile parts :-P 12:39:12 <TomyLobo> why could a Dinger 200 explode at the end of the landing strip? 12:39:23 <TomyLobo> of an intercontinental airport 12:39:28 <planetmaker> why not? 12:39:51 <TomyLobo> because planes don't normally go up in flames 12:39:51 <planetmaker> bad weather, bad tires, malfunctioning thrust reverser 12:39:56 <TomyLobo> :D 12:39:59 <TomyLobo> ok, so random 12:40:03 <planetmaker> they usually do when they hit an obstacle 12:41:49 *** Strid_ [~Strid@c-a1cfe455.04-372-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 12:41:59 <planetmaker> andythenorth: actually... it's not missing the essential part. The essential part is in a separate repo: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/make-nml-common/repository 12:42:10 <planetmaker> the first linked one is just an example newgrf 12:42:19 <planetmaker> which uses the makefile repo as a sub repo 12:43:11 *** TrueBrain [~patric@ip82-139-83-21.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Quit: reboot] 12:44:38 <andythenorth> so where do I start? :) 12:45:12 <andythenorth> I should rm current makefile stuff? 12:45:33 *** TrueBrain [~patric@ip82-139-83-21.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 12:45:37 <planetmaker> you could. But keep your Makefile.config 12:46:04 <planetmaker> Though personally I'd just overwrite and delete unused files 12:46:07 <planetmaker> names remain 12:46:13 <andythenorth> what's /scripts do? 12:46:18 <planetmaker> actually, yes, keep the files. and just overwrite 12:46:34 <planetmaker> the example repo I linked uses build-common 12:46:38 <planetmaker> that is the scripts dir 12:46:42 <planetmaker> no need to rename it 12:47:09 <planetmaker> it's amatter of telling it in the Makefile where to find its parts :-) 12:47:27 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/make-nml/repository/entry/Makefile#L16 <-- there 12:47:40 <planetmaker> just replace build-common by scripts 12:48:01 <planetmaker> or let's start from the beginning: 12:48:04 <andythenorth> please :) 12:48:17 <planetmaker> take that Makefile http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/make-nml/repository/entry/Makefile 12:48:23 <planetmaker> change line 16 to point to the scripts dir 12:48:53 <planetmaker> and also mind lines 9-17 12:49:51 <planetmaker> Then take all files from http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/make-nml-common/repository and put them in your scripts dir, overwriting the stuff you have 12:50:10 <planetmaker> and try whether it builds ;-) 12:50:17 <andythenorth> I should set values for MAIN_SRC_FILE and GFX_LIST_FILES ? 12:50:22 <planetmaker> yep 12:50:45 <planetmaker> unless you don't generate sprites. Then uncomment GFX_LIST_FILES 12:51:26 <andythenorth> k 12:51:37 <andythenorth> MAIN_SRC_FILE - what's that expecting? 12:53:17 <planetmaker> the main pnml file which includes all others 12:53:28 <andythenorth> k I don't have one of those :) 12:53:36 <planetmaker> probably src/fish.pnml 12:53:41 <planetmaker> eh? 12:53:57 <andythenorth> python build ;) 12:54:11 <planetmaker> well... that's tricky then 12:54:36 <andythenorth> managed to hack it onto the old makefile for BANDIT ;) 12:54:45 <planetmaker> especially as I don't know what you want to do and plan to do 12:56:04 <andythenorth> in a nutshell: call the python build script if any deps change 12:56:38 <andythenorth> that will generate a complete nml file 12:56:47 <andythenorth> and lang files 12:57:04 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.1.76] has joined #openttd 12:58:17 <andythenorth> bandit uses a Makefile.in which looks like this: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1507/ 12:58:57 <andythenorth> and it works afaict, including for the graphics generation 12:59:59 *** roadt_ [~roadt@114.96.131.196] has joined #openttd 13:00:17 <FLHerne_> andythenorth: While you're redoing FISH, would it be possible to make the rafts go round corners neatly? 13:00:29 <andythenorth> I'm open to patches for that 13:00:33 <andythenorth> what's the issue? 13:00:37 <planetmaker> ok, andythenorth, keep that Makefile.in in the scripts dir like for bandit 13:00:37 *** FLHerne_ is now known as FLHerne 13:01:28 <FLHerne> Looks strange in rivers and canals when the rafts are sliding across the bank :P 13:01:58 <andythenorth> FLHerne: how would you solve it? 13:02:33 <FLHerne> I don't know :P . Is there any way for a ship to know it just went round a corner? 13:02:55 <michi_cc> Articulated ships! :) 13:03:15 <andythenorth> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/VariationalAction2/Vehicles#Curvature_info_.2845.29 13:03:19 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you need to basically replace the content of this file: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/make-nml-common/repository/entry/Makefile_nml and http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/make-nml-common/repository/changes/Makefile_lng 13:03:20 <andythenorth> ^ claims to apply to ships 13:03:47 <planetmaker> they can thus be commented out in the main Makefile. But the targets thereing (nml and lng) must thus be re-defined in the Makefile.in of yours 13:03:49 <michi_cc> So were do you find "adjacent wagon pairs" for ships? 13:04:01 <andythenorth> I wtf-ed a bit at that 13:04:13 <planetmaker> and I'm coming late for BBQ.... sorry, see you later :-) 13:04:18 <andythenorth> planetmaker: np thanks 13:04:32 <andythenorth> michi_cc: I forgot, it's a train game o/c :P 13:04:48 <planetmaker> I shall have a look maybe tomorrow morning in the train, andythenorth 13:04:51 <andythenorth> thanks 13:04:53 <andythenorth> no rush 13:05:01 <andythenorth> the conversion is not ready yet 13:13:52 * andythenorth wonders what default model life is for ships 13:14:02 <Chris_Booth> 7,000,000 years 13:14:17 * andythenorth ignore_file++ 13:14:28 <andythenorth> the code probably knows 13:32:49 <andythenorth> Alberth: variable ship speed? Faster only when 100% unloaded? Or proportional to current load amount? 13:34:31 <Alberth> propoertional for a few km/h ? 13:35:25 <Alberth> you could do +1 for less than 66% and +2 for less than 33% if you want to do proportional, but 0 if >=50% and +x if < 50% is fine too 13:35:59 <TomyLobo> you could make a physical model 13:36:21 <Alberth> or if you want 3 km/h faster, one step every 25 % which is probably easier 13:36:39 <andythenorth> I have python to hand, so I can just do straight maths on it ;) 13:36:52 <Alberth> TomyLobo: yep, right after you provide a patch for non-zero sized ships 13:37:10 <TomyLobo> taking into account the part of the ship that's in the water (and thus friction) 13:37:19 <andythenorth> sounds like an ottd patch 13:37:25 <Alberth> oh, nml implies no computing by hand any more :) 13:37:50 <TomyLobo> as well as the inertia of the cargo and ship 13:38:25 <TomyLobo> and of course the power of the engine 13:39:00 <Alberth> don't for get people rowing to make it go faster :p 13:39:10 <TomyLobo> of course 13:39:11 <Alberth> s/for get/forget/ 13:39:50 <Alberth> oh, and the amount of fuel on board is also important 13:40:00 <TomyLobo> not to forget bribing the captain to look the other way on some state regulations 13:40:13 * Alberth ponders limited range of ships 13:40:25 <andythenorth> similar to planes/ 13:40:37 <andythenorth> ships can bunker at sea 13:40:53 <andythenorth> civilian planes don't do that :P 13:41:10 <TomyLobo> except in movies 13:41:12 <Alberth> I don't know how often a ship needs to take in fuel, I guess not that often to make it worthwhile 13:41:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6BC77.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:44:48 <andythenorth> I have to figure out how this interacts with river / sea speeds :) 13:48:26 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6ADB7.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:52:30 * andythenorth wonders if that will happen via automagic 13:53:38 <andythenorth> hmm, seems to 13:54:03 <andythenorth> that's nice :) 13:55:49 * andythenorth needs a volunteer to add ships stats to the CMS :P 14:05:29 <andythenorth> ho 14:05:46 <andythenorth> what causes the ship depot window to change size when reloading grfs? 14:08:42 <andythenorth> Alberth: difference between speed laden / unladen? 3mph? 14:09:45 <TomyLobo> is there some max radius for a city? 14:09:56 <Alberth> I suggested 10%, which gets somewhere around that number 14:10:12 <Alberth> but it's a random number, so feel free to adjust 14:14:32 <TomyLobo> my city is kinda shrinking right now 14:14:57 <Alberth> it's collapsing under its own gravity? :p 14:15:12 <TomyLobo> possible 14:15:16 <TomyLobo> it's at 290k 14:15:26 <TomyLobo> has been almost 300k earlier 14:15:32 *** chlorine [~chlorine@tru75-4-82-227-168-156.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:15:41 <Alberth> I don't know about cities, but people seem to be obsessed about them 14:16:04 <TomyLobo> well i restricted myself to one city 14:16:24 <Alberth> so I am quite sure someone can answer all details about cities that you ever want to know 14:16:37 <Alberth> quite likely it is already at the forum or the wiki 14:16:44 <TomyLobo> http://tomylobo.dyndns.org/openttd-one_city_challenge.png 14:17:18 <andythenorth> Alberth: I'll make it a fraction set per ship, that will do nicely 14:17:23 <andythenorth> 1.1 can be typical 14:17:46 <Alberth> @calc 28*1.1 14:17:46 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 30.8 14:17:53 <Alberth> quite :) 14:18:04 <TomyLobo> @calc floor(pi) 14:18:04 <DorpsGek> TomyLobo: 3 14:18:46 <Alberth> hopefully that did not come as a surprise :) 14:19:02 <TomyLobo> it's engineers' pi 14:20:30 * andythenorth ponders setting 100 discrete values representing 0-100% loaded 14:20:41 <andythenorth> with pynml, such things are entirely plausible :P 14:21:28 <Beul> seems to me like andythenorth is qiute the ambitious type :) 14:21:40 <Alberth> 11 are many more than enough :) 14:22:13 <Alberth> Beul: ambitious in ideas, but also practical to scale down when needed :) 14:22:14 <TomyLobo> yay, it's stable above 300k... and down to 299xxx again 14:22:31 <TomyLobo> ffs stop shrinking you silly city 14:23:20 <Alberth> TomyLobo: what's so special about x493e0 ? 14:23:42 <Alberth> ie it seems stable at 299k :) 14:23:43 <TomyLobo> that the game is teasing me with it 14:24:01 <Alberth> or even 1k :D 14:24:14 <TomyLobo> now it went up to 205k 14:24:18 <TomyLobo> 305 14:24:38 <andythenorth> hmm 14:24:59 <Alberth> new building temporarily do not have inhabitants, that might explain your fluctuations 14:25:13 <Alberth> *buildings 14:25:25 <Beul> I also do not understand the obsession with cities, they seem to grow easy enoug on normal settings. I actualy find it quite annoying to set up a transport network in a city, expand the rest of my network, only to come back and realise all stations are overloaded with waiting passengers and the whole area is overgrown :p 14:25:30 <TomyLobo> while being construction sites, right? 14:26:32 <Alberth> Beul: there is a setting to forbid towns from making new roads, that helps in not overgrowing :) 14:26:49 <andythenorth> I need to know % loaded, so cargo_count / cargo_capacity 14:26:57 <Alberth> TomyLobo: I think so, but I don't have the details 14:27:01 <TomyLobo> if they're on a 3x3 grid, you can just buy the places they can grow to :) 14:27:25 <TomyLobo> which is what i do 14:27:33 <TomyLobo> to prevent the city from growing into the mountains 14:27:37 <TomyLobo> before i flatten those *g* 14:27:47 * andythenorth wonders how nml handles range checks 14:27:50 <Alberth> Beul: ie disallow it, and then build roads yourself where you want the city to grow 14:28:18 <Alberth> TomyLobo: you know you can load a (flat) heightmap instead, right? 14:28:34 <andythenorth> x...y: return stuff 14:28:42 <TomyLobo> Alberth where's the challenge? 14:28:44 * Alberth prefers random roads and growing 14:29:31 <Alberth> TomyLobo: flattening a mountain is a challenge? 14:29:38 <andythenorth> hmm, I can just return values of vars in nml it seems 14:29:42 <TomyLobo> before i had those planes, flattening the terrain actually took almost all my income 14:29:43 <Alberth> it just takes a lot of money 14:30:25 <Beul> Alberth, also prefer the random roads and growing, it's just the speed at whitch it happens that I can't handle 14:30:28 <Alberth> so you bought planes for the challenge? 14:30:45 <Beul> and yes, I do know that there is a patch for that 14:30:56 <TomyLobo> no, i bought them to make more money 14:31:24 <TomyLobo> once my city was of sufficient size to support a plane route inside the city 14:31:27 <Alberth> Beul: I don't service towns except where I want to deliver goods and/or food 14:31:58 * Beul loves playiog with cargodist for passengers 14:32:26 <Alberth> I haven't done that enough yet :) 14:34:53 <Alberth> Beul: there are also grfs that change the 'I bought this tile' sign to a grass-like tile, which you can put around your city 14:37:14 <andythenorth> hmm 14:37:24 <andythenorth> return 16 to nml speed cb results in speed 5mph 14:37:36 <andythenorth> which makes no sense :P 14:39:53 <andythenorth> perhaps it's nfo style 14:40:00 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 14:40:13 <Alberth> can't you add a unit or so? 14:40:38 <andythenorth> not supported 14:40:45 <andythenorth> I have to do int(3.2*16) 14:40:56 *** roadt_ [~roadt@114.96.131.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:40:57 <Alberth> hmm, stupid 14:41:09 <andythenorth> I love it when values are not the values you expect :) 14:41:23 <andythenorth> otherwise the grf would get done really quickly, and where's the fun in that ? 14:41:28 <andythenorth> :| 14:42:00 <Alberth> perhaps it should depend on its revision number :p 14:42:47 <Alberth> preferably very slowly changing, so authors don't notice it very quickly :P 14:44:22 <Alberth> hmm, we sohould add realistic acceleration first then, so we can blame it :) 14:45:08 <andythenorth> hmm 14:45:32 <andythenorth> using int(3.2*speed) gives me values that are too low compared to the nfo version of FISH :P 14:46:01 * andythenorth wonders how python rounds 14:46:28 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@82-69-69-3.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:46:43 <Beul> haha Alberth, good idea: blame it on realistic acceleration :p 14:47:08 <andythenorth> python truncates towards zero 14:47:12 <andythenorth> so I need to call floor / ceil? 14:47:50 <andythenorth> maybe round() 14:48:34 <Alberth> int == floor afaik 14:48:39 <andythenorth> seems to 14:48:45 <andythenorth> but round seems to round down also 14:48:50 <andythenorth> @calc 51/3.2 14:48:50 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 15.9375 14:49:07 <andythenorth> ah, nml might be doing the rounding 14:49:18 <andythenorth> that should come out as 16, but doesn't :P 14:49:19 <andythenorth> gtg 14:49:21 <andythenorth> biab 14:49:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@host109-153-144-220.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:53:03 *** KouDy [~KouDy@175.137.98.38] has joined #openttd 14:57:24 *** TWerkhoven[l] [~twerkhove@82-69-69-3.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 15:07:07 *** roadt_ [~roadt@114.96.131.196] has joined #openttd 15:27:13 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:16 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has joined #openttd 15:41:57 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has joined #openttd 15:42:22 <Wolf01> hello 15:46:25 <__ln__> 'qapla Wolf01 15:54:29 *** roadt_ [~roadt@114.96.131.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:54:42 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BC27.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:55:18 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #openttd 15:56:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:20:57 * MNIM tosses a tribble at __ln__ 16:23:07 <andythenorth> hmm 16:23:44 <andythenorth> Alberth: max speed to report in buy menu etc - laden or unladen? 16:24:05 <Alberth> unladen imho 16:24:11 <andythenorth> more logical 16:24:15 <andythenorth> might be more annoying :P 16:24:29 <Alberth> as manufacturer you don't want to underestimate the performance of your vehicles :p 16:24:34 <FLHerne> Laden - that's how fast it'll go when actually in use :-) 16:24:49 <FLHerne> Probably less confusing for AIs, too? 16:25:30 <andythenorth> some of the existing ships change speed when laden; they report laden speed in buy menu 16:25:32 <Alberth> could be an interesting experiment, waiting for bug reports "he, the ship goes faster than specs" :) 16:25:33 <andythenorth> otherwise annoying 16:25:39 <andythenorth> log raft does it 16:25:48 <andythenorth> hovercraft does it 16:26:11 * Alberth mostly looks at reliability 16:26:45 <Alberth> but I am one of the idiots that plays with breakdowns enabled :p 16:26:55 <andythenorth> moi aussi, sometimes 16:26:57 <Wolf01> me too, Alberth 16:27:05 <andythenorth> otherwise it's boring :P 16:31:16 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:57 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 16:33:22 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 16:35:23 <Alberth> consistency is probably more interesting 16:38:24 <Beul> I do not see any problems in defining max speed unladen 16:38:52 <Beul> 2cc in combination with nutracks allready has some trains that allmost never reach full speed 16:39:26 <andythenorth> logic says that 16:39:33 <andythenorth> but ships work differently to trains 16:39:51 <andythenorth> if you buy a log tug that reports 21mph, but only get 7mph laden, you'll be....annoyed 16:42:44 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 16:44:24 <andythenorth> I have rounding errors that make this speed varying thing unworkable right now :P 16:45:20 <andythenorth> purchase menu speed is shown differently to vehicle speed when built 16:45:54 <andythenorth> ach may be maths by me 16:47:25 <Alberth> ships don't have physics 16:55:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: report the (un)laden speed in the additional purchase text (via parameter, so mph-km/h switching works) 16:55:19 <andythenorth> could do 16:55:27 <andythenorth> I've already got canal and ocean speed in there too 16:55:32 <andythenorth> quite a lot of speeds :) 16:56:34 * andythenorth is now bored of playing 'guess' with floating points and ints 16:56:41 <andythenorth> this is one case where nfo was just easier 16:57:26 <Alberth> I am surprised it is that difficult with nml 16:57:27 <andythenorth> the ability to do stuff like 'return: 1 + (foo / bar)' in nml is over-rated and flakey :P 16:57:48 <andythenorth> "Floating-point operations are only possible when both operands are compile-time constants" 16:58:11 <Alberth> you do give it floating point values, right? 16:58:30 <andythenorth> no, I'm trying to turn them all into ints 16:58:46 <andythenorth> but fractions as ints is...problematic :P 16:58:58 * andythenorth is tempted to do the 'multiply by 8, divide by x' solution 16:58:58 *** APTX [APTX@aptx.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:01 <Alberth> I could have a looksie whether it is easily fixable, but not now 16:59:17 <andythenorth> I can solve it brutally with some range checks 16:59:27 <andythenorth> it fails the one-line code game 16:59:44 * andythenorth has babies to bath anyway 17:01:13 <TomyLobo> int fac(n) { return n==0 ? 1 : n*fac(n-1); } 17:01:16 <TomyLobo> do i win? :) 17:01:31 *** APTX [APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd 17:05:56 *** Biolunar_ [~mahdi@blfd-5d82368a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:05:58 <andythenorth> probly 17:08:05 <Alberth> TomyLobo: and now with a lambda function :) 17:08:31 <TomyLobo> cba to look up the syntax 17:08:54 <Alberth> lambda <parameters> : <return-expression> 17:09:25 <Alberth> f = lambda x, y: x + 1 f(1,2) 17:12:07 <andythenorth> bah 17:12:12 <andythenorth> this rounding is tiresome 17:13:13 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d823b77.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:13:50 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:14:53 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: feel like lending a hand? 17:15:12 <Eddi|zuHause> if you can repeat the question in 3 lines? 17:15:58 <andythenorth> sure 17:16:02 <andythenorth> 5 mins 17:16:08 <andythenorth> writing a good question takes time :P 17:17:17 <FLHerne> Has anyone here tried Cinnamon much? 17:17:22 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 17:17:27 * FLHerne found it a bit unpolished 17:21:55 <Eddi|zuHause> only in combination with apple sauce 17:25:35 <andythenorth> ship max speed is determined as follows: base speed + (additional speed inversely proportional to % loaded) 17:25:50 <andythenorth> needs to be returned as a cb result, including dicking around with multiplying by 3.2 17:26:14 <andythenorth> I have 'speed' and 'speed_unladen' available as vars 17:26:36 <andythenorth> (python vars in scope during the build) 17:28:00 <andythenorth> relevant nml vars at runtime seem to be 'cargo_count' and 'cargo_capacity' 17:33:08 <andythenorth> it would be acceptable for the granularity of this to be low, e.g four bounds of 25% each 17:34:55 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:38:29 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f781b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:39:18 <andythenorth> ribbit 17:40:03 <frosch123> moin 17:43:38 <Rubidium> quack 17:44:30 <frosch123> back in the old world? 17:44:50 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:45:46 *** APTX_ [APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd 17:47:12 *** APTX [APTX@aptx.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:34 *** APTX_ [APTX@aptx.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:48:58 *** APTX [APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd 17:49:01 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-25-105.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 17:49:03 <Alberth> moin 17:50:05 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ^^^ 17:50:20 <andythenorth> (I also have arbitrary python functions in scope if I want, at compile time) 17:51:23 <andythenorth> I'm thinking of just doing dumb range checks tbh; I was trying to get a return value on a single line of nml but I'm bored of that :P 17:52:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: attempt #1: switch(cargo_count*100/cargo_capacity) { 0 : (speed_unladen*100+speed*0)/100, 1..25 : (speed_unladen*75+speed*25)/100, 26..50 : (speed_unladen*50+speed*50)/100, 51..75 :(speed_unladen*25+speed*75)/100, 76..100 : (speed_unladen*0+speed*100)/100, 17:52:36 <Eddi|zuHause> granularity easily varied 17:53:33 <andythenorth> k thanks 17:53:36 <andythenorth> makes sense 17:53:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it's beautiful if it does that :) 17:55:20 <Eddi|zuHause> the parts behind the : should be compile-time constants 17:56:22 <andythenorth> sure 17:56:28 <andythenorth> I'll make it so 17:57:37 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:59:53 * andythenorth smells that Eddi|zuHause knows which order computers do mathematical operations :P 18:00:00 * andythenorth always puts brackets in, 'just in case' :P 18:00:32 <Eddi|zuHause> not in all cases. but here it's a common case where you learn a few things over time (hopefully) 18:00:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the most important bit is to do the * before the / 18:01:12 <Eddi|zuHause> and that * comes before + you learn in first grade 18:01:25 <Eddi|zuHause> or third grade if you're unlucky 18:01:50 <andythenorth> ok, so speed_unladen is a float, which isn't allowed in a switch block 18:01:54 <andythenorth> I'll trying rounding it 18:07:43 <andythenorth> hmm 18:07:58 <andythenorth> I'm not allowed to multiply by 3.2 in a switch block 18:08:37 <Yexo> multiply by 16 and divide by 5 18:09:21 <Eddi|zuHause> multiply by 32 and divide by 10 18:09:44 <Yexo> that only matters if you're going to add 5 before dividing by 10 to get better rounding 18:09:47 <andythenorth> right, those both work :) 18:09:53 <andythenorth> I have rounding errors still though 18:09:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so have (speed_unladen*75+speed*25)*32/1000 18:10:01 * andythenorth checks 18:10:28 <andythenorth> maybe it's working actually :) 18:10:32 * andythenorth needs to test 18:11:21 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want to add Yexo's suggestion: (speed_unladen*75+speed*25+5)*32/1000 18:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause> err 18:11:39 <Eddi|zuHause> ((speed_unladen*75+speed*25)*32+5)/1000 18:12:39 <Yexo> doesn't matter in speed, the 32+5)/1000 part will be encoded as a single varaction2 action 18:12:54 <andythenorth> works 18:13:06 <andythenorth> ugliest nml code in the world right now 18:13:28 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1508/ 18:13:47 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:47 <andythenorth> I could round the speed vars in the python first I guess 18:14:08 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:14:14 <andythenorth> I need to round 'speed' as well as 'speed_unladen' 18:17:21 <andythenorth> I should add the +5 :P 18:17:40 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:56 *** plastics [~plastics@c-69-138-42-222.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:21:51 * andythenorth now has some 7,000mph ships :P 18:22:18 *** plastics [~plastics@c-69-138-42-222.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 18:22:29 <SpComb> isn't that what everyone does the first time they dirty their hands with NewGRFs? 18:28:00 <andythenorth> solved 18:28:28 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1509/ 18:28:41 <andythenorth> so the only puzzle I have is why the 'speed' is wrong 18:28:46 <andythenorth> the vehicle speed is 16mph 18:29:19 <andythenorth> but when using a cb and doing the 32 + 5 / 1000 adjustment, I get 15mph 18:30:08 <andythenorth> I could actually live with this, but it puts the config file at odds with the result in game 18:34:18 <andythenorth> @calc 16 * 3,2 18:34:18 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number. 18:34:25 <andythenorth> @calc 16 * 3.2 18:34:25 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 51.2 18:34:51 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:35:10 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: on the purchase list, you probably cannot check cargo_amount, so the switch will produce a random result. you'll need a special purchase list callback returning "speed" 18:35:18 <andythenorth> got that already 18:35:31 <andythenorth> this is something to do with integer maths that I don't understand yet 18:35:37 <NGC3982> derp. 18:35:40 <andythenorth> @calc 51.2 / 8 18:35:40 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 6.4 18:35:41 * NGC3982 is hungover like a sir. 18:35:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and the last one should be /10, not /1000 18:35:45 <andythenorth> yup 18:36:03 <andythenorth> although that result should never be reached, so I swapped it for 0 now 18:36:21 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds bad 18:36:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and why exactly don't you do the *3.2 in python? 18:36:58 <andythenorth> I could, I'll still have the rounding error though 18:37:03 <andythenorth> I tried that already :) 18:37:16 <Eddi|zuHause> what's "the rounding error"? 18:37:18 <andythenorth> 51.2 will always be used by the game as 15mph, not 16mph 18:37:25 <andythenorth> for some integer maths reason 18:37:55 <andythenorth> 52 works ok 18:38:14 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no 51.2 in integer maths 18:38:18 <andythenorth> :) 18:38:33 <andythenorth> and the game always rounds down? 18:38:42 <andythenorth> this isn't new, I've just forgotten how to solve it :P 18:38:50 <Alberth> integer division does 18:38:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that depends on what you mean 18:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly you're not making a lot of sense 18:39:25 <andythenorth> forget my thinking - here's the problem: 18:39:36 <andythenorth> 16mph * 3.2 = 51.2 18:39:36 <Alberth> do you want rounding up? (a + b - 1) / b 18:39:55 <andythenorth> 51.2 used as a speed value in newgrf cb will result in 15mph 18:40:05 <andythenorth> so problem: how do I reliably round up (or down?) 18:40:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so "speed" is 16, and you want the ingame speed to be 16 as well? 18:41:26 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want "round up", then change the +5 to a +9 18:41:35 <TomyLobo> hmm i was thinking... if i left a temperate map running for a billion years or something, allowed multiple industries of the same type per city 18:41:49 <TomyLobo> i'd end up with a map full of power plants, right? 18:42:04 <Eddi|zuHause> possible 18:42:10 <Alberth> depends on the industry newgrf 18:42:16 <TomyLobo> none 18:42:22 <Eddi|zuHause> people have been reporting towns full of water towers and banks 18:42:29 <TomyLobo> lol 18:42:34 <TomyLobo> yeah and banks 18:42:38 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 18:42:45 * andythenorth is going to assume that rounding up is always safe 18:42:46 <TomyLobo> although... dont those close? 18:43:19 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea 18:43:38 <Eddi|zuHause> tropic banks are different from temperate banks, though 18:43:58 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@VPNRASA-WLAN-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 18:44:00 <TomyLobo> ah, cayman islands, right 18:46:26 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:48:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the "road vehicle queueing" tooltip should possibly explain what "quantum effects" are 18:49:16 <Terkhen> it's easy; quantum tunneling, schrodinger box and so on 18:49:17 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: :) 18:49:29 <andythenorth> also, + 9 doesn't solve the rounding :P 18:49:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: well _I_ know that... 18:50:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you sure? 18:50:04 <andythenorth> it's a shame that nml cbs don't support values in the same way as props 18:50:11 <Terkhen> so do I, it seems to be common knowledge and therefore it does not need an explanation :) 18:52:47 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: no not sure, weird results :P 18:53:15 <andythenorth> @calc 57.609/3.2 18:53:15 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 18.0028125 18:53:22 <andythenorth> @calc 57/3.2 18:53:22 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 17.8125 18:53:31 <andythenorth> @calc 56 / 3.2 18:53:31 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 17.5 18:53:36 <andythenorth> @calc 54/3.2 18:53:37 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 16.875 18:57:59 <Yexo> andythenorth: rounding up is not always safe, but it's better. Less people will complain if they buy a vehicle that said 16mph and it will actually go 17mph then when they buy a vehicle that said 16mph and it actually goes 15mph 18:58:20 <andythenorth> @calc 51.209 / 3.2 18:58:20 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 16.0028125 18:58:54 <andythenorth> game returns 15 for that calculation ^ 18:59:04 <andythenorth> rounding the 51.209 I guess 18:59:58 <Yexo> you can't put 51.209 in your newgrf 19:00:03 <Yexo> so it'll be 51 there I guess 19:00:06 <andythenorth> indeed 19:00:09 <Yexo> @calc 51 / 3.2 19:00:09 <DorpsGek> Yexo: 15.9375 19:00:15 <Yexo> which rounds down to 15 19:00:17 <andythenorth> yup 19:00:19 <TomyLobo> maybe round to closest integer? 19:00:34 <andythenorth> that will round down 19:00:37 <andythenorth> I need ceil() 19:00:45 <andythenorth> which nml doesn't offer afaik 19:00:47 <Yexo> @calc ceil(16*3.2) 19:00:47 <DorpsGek> Yexo: 52 19:00:50 <TomyLobo> ceil is -floor(-x) :D 19:00:54 <Yexo> @calc 52 / 3.2 19:00:54 <DorpsGek> Yexo: 16.25 19:01:00 <Yexo> which rounds down to 16 19:01:03 <Alberth> Yexo: how difficult is it to write a reverse engineering routine to compute the right magic value? 19:01:17 <Yexo> it's already included in nml 19:01:24 <Yexo> but not available for callback results 19:01:36 <andythenorth> hmm 19:01:47 <andythenorth> I could import nml to my python build script, use the routine? 19:01:58 <Yexo> the problem is that in a callback result nml has to know the type of vehicle 19:02:43 <Alberth> we're talking compile time, right? 19:02:52 <Yexo> yes 19:02:53 <Alberth> ie during nmlc run 19:03:05 <Yexo> it's definitely possible, just not yet done 19:03:23 <Alberth> that's probably a long list :) 19:03:28 <Yexo> yep ;) 19:12:14 <Eddi|zuHause> <Yexo> the problem is that in a callback result nml has to know the type of vehicle <-- the switch has a feature entry, right? 19:13:15 <NGC3982> if trains normally load 10% if they stay two days on a station, shouldnt load increase (as long as productions follows) if the trains stays for a longer time? 19:13:38 <NGC3982> normaly 19:13:41 <NGC3982> *. 19:13:51 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: ENoContext 19:14:26 <andythenorth> is that a new reddit thing or something? 19:14:33 <andythenorth> I suddenly keep seeing it :P 19:14:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's the naming scheme for Delphi exceptions 19:15:04 <Eddi|zuHause> so actually old :) 19:15:15 <andythenorth> most memes are, they just take a while :P 19:15:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it has been used here for years 19:16:52 <Terkhen> first time I notice it :P 19:16:53 * andythenorth offers a diversion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgKMGwfo5sg 19:16:54 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-89.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:16:58 <Terkhen> hi LordAro 19:17:00 <LordAro> evenings 19:17:08 <Terkhen> how are your exams? :) 19:17:19 <LordAro> exams? finished them a month ago :P 19:17:26 <LordAro> results = 16 aug 19:17:44 <LordAro> current life purpose = university applications 19:17:48 <LordAro> :) 19:18:08 <Alberth> hi LordAro 19:18:09 *** telanus1 [~telanus@196.215.173.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:24 <LordAro> hia Alberth 19:18:38 <Terkhen> oooh, I see :) 19:18:44 <Terkhen> good luck with both the results and the applications 19:19:06 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: i fail to understand. google talks about zaphod beeblebrox. 19:19:13 <Alberth> the results are already decided no matter what you do :) 19:19:53 <andythenorth> @calc 57/3.2 19:19:54 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 17.8125 19:19:54 <Alberth> NGC3982: you've not read enough hitch hiker to the galaxy 19:20:22 <NGC3982> and i thought i had 19:20:46 <Alberth> then you'd know zaphod :p 19:20:46 <Yexo> NGC3982: if you force vehicles to stay in a station by using a timetable, I'm not sure they keep loading all that time 19:20:55 <NGC3982> Alberth: i know zaphod, much and much. 19:21:27 * andythenorth might have to round a bit more :) 19:21:30 <Yexo> NGC3982: ENoContext = Error, Not enough Context provided 19:22:00 <Alberth> LordAro: you were gone too quickly this morning, but I have no clue whatsoever what that code is about 19:22:14 <NGC3982> Yexo: ah, i see! 19:22:29 <NGC3982> Yexo: and yes, it seems like they dont load more then usual. 19:22:39 <Yexo> so you do use timetables? 19:23:15 <LordAro> Alberth: :) would i perhaps get more help on the forums? 19:23:53 <Alberth> possibly 19:24:01 <NGC3982> Yexo: yes, of course. i didnt know of any other way to make a train wait <amount> of days in a random station? :) 19:24:22 <Alberth> press 'stop' :) 19:24:56 <Yexo> NGC3982: I don't think there is a good solution for you currently 19:25:10 * Alberth agrees 19:25:20 <Yexo> apart from writing a patch so vehicles keep loading more cargo when they are waiting due to their timetable 19:25:35 <Yexo> I do think the current behavior is sub-optimal 19:25:58 <NGC3982> i see 19:26:06 <NGC3982> well, ill solve it with more trains. 19:26:11 <NGC3982> usually solves most things 19:26:53 <Yexo> try full-load orders, those usually work for me 19:27:25 <NGC3982> im using UKRS2+ with ECS 19:28:17 <NGC3982> and the industry level jibberish is a bit confusing :) 19:28:35 * NGC3982 conducts an experiment. 19:31:59 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has left #openttd [] 19:32:16 <andythenorth> \o/ 19:32:19 <andythenorth> accurate speeds 19:32:26 <NGC3982> the thing is (or seems to be), that using full load on trains to an ECS oil field lowers the amount of transported oil. 19:32:35 <NGC3982> thus, lowering the level, thus, lowering the production 19:32:54 * NGC3982 scans for a wiki entry 19:33:24 <andythenorth> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1510/ 19:36:59 <NGC3982> the wiki entry for the grf doesnt really tell me how transported goods work 19:37:04 * NGC3982 scans for more wiki entries. 19:39:37 <NGC3982> ah, but of course 19:40:05 <NGC3982> since i just change how long time x trains should wait for cargo, they still pick up the same amount 19:40:12 <NGC3982> thus not affecting the transported rate 19:40:23 <NGC3982> ergo ipsum: moar trainz! 19:42:21 <Zuu> If you do "rm -r *&" and then "cp -r ../some_catalog .", is the * of rm expanded by the shell or rm when that command is issued or will some_catalog be removed too if the cp command finnish before? 19:43:19 <Zuu> I realize that the best is to force the shell to expand * before hitting enter :-) 19:43:19 <Yexo> I'd expect that some_catalog always stays, but I'm not 100% sure 19:44:45 <Zuu> That what I expect/hope too. :-) 19:45:57 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@VPNRASA-WLAN-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:47:03 <andythenorth> hmm 19:47:03 <Zuu> ... It appears to have worked :-) 19:47:06 <andythenorth> default cargos 19:47:07 <Beul> can an if block be placed iside an item block? 19:47:22 <Beul> in NML? 19:47:23 * NGC3982 fails to increase transported goods. 19:47:38 <Zuu> NGC3982: Do you have a statue? 19:48:14 <NGC3982> no 19:48:27 <NGC3982> no such city nearby 19:49:10 <Zuu> If the city that the industry (or station?) belongs to have a statue, you get 10% rating bonus for that station. 19:49:29 <Beul> NGC3982, in my experience, using shorter trains that leave the pichup station more regularly increases transported cargo with ecs vectors 19:49:48 <Beul> have not figured out why thoug, dut it seems to work 19:50:10 <NGC3982> i see 19:50:19 <NGC3982> im already using 5 tile trains 19:50:39 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/FgpmE.png 19:50:56 <Beul> make them even shorter. when production is still low, I use 3 or 4 tile lengt trains 19:51:10 <NGC3982> Beul: with full load? 19:51:24 <andythenorth> default cargo for freight ships should be coal? 19:51:34 <Beul> yes 19:52:05 <NGC3982> Beul: ill set them to load 50% 19:52:11 <Beul> NGC3982, 333k litres is not much indeed, they should be able to go a lot higher 19:52:28 <Beul> is that even possible? 19:52:37 <Yexo> <Beul> can an if block be placed iside an item block? <- yes 19:53:02 <Yexo> item (..) { if (a) { property { ... } } else { property { ... } } } <- that is valid 19:53:07 <Beul> ty 19:54:58 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 19:57:33 * NGC3982 just tried a zip of jack daniels cola. 19:58:15 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:00:54 <Beul> what revision number does 1.1.0 have? (or where could I find that?) 20:02:48 <frosch123> it's a tag 20:04:48 <Yexo> Beul: http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/browser and expand the "tags" directory 20:05:51 <Beul> tnx again Yexo 20:06:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Beul: the revision of a release is very uninteresting. you won't get the release if you check out that revision of trunk 20:06:59 <Rubidium> (AT ALL) 20:07:23 <Beul> I am not planning on doing so Eddi|zuHause, I only what to condionally disable the grf 20:07:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Beul: releases have always "revision 0x80000" in the newgrf version 20:08:14 <Beul> ok, usefull to know 20:08:28 <Yexo> nml probably does not have a nice way to expose that 20:08:57 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 20:09:19 <Rubidium> but isn't saying ottd_version(1, 2, 0, <revision that added the feature you need) inside an if the thing you should check for? 20:09:42 <Yexo> yes, but that's harder to find 20:09:56 <Yexo> especially if you use multiple features included in 1.x.0 20:10:04 <Eddi|zuHause> but then checking for "ottd_version(1,2,0,0)" will suffice 20:10:14 <Eddi|zuHause> since that is larger than any 1.1.x release 20:10:29 <Yexo> yes, but the 1.1.x releases are suddenly not valid 20:10:40 <Eddi|zuHause> so? 20:11:18 <Yexo> if features have been introduced in 1.1, so 1.1 can support the grf, checking for 1.0.0r0 will allow all nightlies from before 1.1.0, some of which won't support the features you need 20:12:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i was reading it like he wants a feature that is not in 1.1 20:12:39 <Yexo> ok, checking for 1.2.0r0 will allow the grf for every nightly after the 1.1 branch 20:12:56 <Yexo> which is not the intension, as early nightlies won't have support for the feature 20:13:36 <Rubidium> 1,2,0,0x80000 20:14:26 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but the premise was to not bother to find out which revision 20:14:28 <Rubidium> rejects all non-stable releases of 1.2 (nightly, beta, rc), everything before 1.1 and everything in trunk after 1.2 branching 20:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: trunk is increased to 1.3 almost immediately after 1.2 branch 20:15:07 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:15:38 <Yexo> the "rejects beta,rc" part is not so nice though 20:16:09 <Yexo> which brings us back to: find proper revision of feature inclusion, or, since it's easier, find revision of 1.2.0 20:16:31 <Rubidium> hmm, though only for the 1.2 branch and 1.2.0 beta/RCs (I think) 20:16:33 *** plastics [~plastics@c-69-138-42-222.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:43 <Rubidium> as 1.2.1 RCs would have version 1,2,1,<rev> 20:18:00 *** Biolunar_ [~mahdi@blfd-5d82368a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 20:18:41 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:18:42 <Beul> Eddi|zuHause, Yexo, I allready have: if (openttd_version > version_openttd(1, 2, 0, 22713)) { 20:18:42 <Beul> property{ 20:18:42 <Beul> maintenance_cost: 8; 20:18:42 <Beul> } 20:18:42 <Beul> } 20:19:06 <TomyLobo> "openttd_version > version_openttd" :D 20:19:09 <Beul> but aditionally I want to give a fatal error for versions lower than 1.1.0 20:19:48 <Beul> It looks ridivilous TomyLobo, but it works :p 20:20:03 <TomyLobo> yeah just nice naming 20:22:18 <NGC3982> Beul: i made a ridiculous mess out of it. 20:23:06 * andythenorth does magic 20:23:22 <NGC3982> andythenorth: please spare some for me. :) 20:25:51 <andythenorth> bah 20:26:16 <andythenorth> using {NBSP} to space vehicles names in the buy menu causes horrible side effects 20:27:38 *** cmircea [~cmircea@86.123.45.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:27:43 <andythenorth> also nml doesn't appear to respect default_cargo_type for ships 20:28:58 <andythenorth> hmm, only wrt PASS 20:29:18 <andythenorth> PASS is in my cargo table 20:29:45 <andythenorth> frick, maybe it's not in this game 20:30:09 <andythenorth> FIRS claims to provide it 20:31:45 <andythenorth> hmm 20:31:54 * andythenorth is baffle-ised 20:32:17 <Beul> has anybody in here got the latest version of chillcore's patchpack? 20:32:39 * andythenorth solves stupid issue 20:34:03 <Yexo> not refitable to ships? 20:34:18 <Yexo> and isn't defautl_cargo_type unsupported anyway? 20:34:36 <Hirundo> It is supported (though wasn't) 20:35:08 <andythenorth> mistake in my code 20:35:11 <andythenorth> don't trust magic :P 20:35:42 <Yexo> good night everyone 20:36:08 <Supercheese> Night, I guess. Time zones are strange 20:36:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Beul: chills patchpack is based on a really old trunk revision 20:36:34 <andythenorth> bye Yexo 20:41:50 <NGC3982> Beul: there we are! 20:41:56 <NGC3982> Beul: worked like a charm. 20:45:36 *** MinchinWeb [~MinchinWe@S0106002401ce418e.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 20:45:55 <andythenorth> Hirundo: does nml have an equivalent of string code 1F? http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/StringCodes 20:46:08 <andythenorth> or 01 20:46:17 <Hirundo> SETX / SETXY? 20:46:26 <MinchinWeb> Is there a way, with NoAI, to find out how much cargo a vehicle is currently carrying? 20:46:58 <Hirundo> andythenorth: why do you need it? 20:47:09 <andythenorth> buy menu offsets for FISH 20:47:22 <MinchinWeb> join #openttdcoop 20:48:09 <Beul> NGC3982, the ecs thingie you mean? 20:48:18 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-89.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:48:43 <andythenorth> SETX isn't found in my nml src 20:48:57 <Hirundo> andythenorth: wasn' 20:49:10 <Hirundo> t openttd modified that it takes the sprite width into account? 20:49:21 <andythenorth> apparently not :P 20:49:22 <Hirundo> damn ' next to enter button :S 20:49:40 <Supercheese> That cursed apostrophe key, leading to so many premature Entries 20:50:00 <NGC3982> Beul: yes 20:50:28 <Hirundo> andythenorth: I can find no trace of it in the NML code or docs, so the answer is no 20:50:39 <andythenorth> I concur ;) 20:50:53 <andythenorth> maybe I should try and patch it 20:51:08 <andythenorth> I recall some discussion about deprecating it? 20:52:50 <andythenorth> grfstrings.py definitely misses it 20:53:21 <Hirundo> It is indeed sortof deprecated and no longer exists except for NewGRFs 20:53:41 <andythenorth> seems like the game should just handle this case 20:53:55 <planetmaker> good evening 20:54:03 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:54:22 <andythenorth> why does the depot view window change size sometimes? 20:54:40 <andythenorth> i.e. the boxes in the grid change size depending which ship grfs I have loaded 20:55:06 <planetmaker> it supposedly adjusts to the ship size 20:55:12 <planetmaker> sprite size 20:55:51 <andythenorth> makes sense 20:56:09 * andythenorth needs to sleep 20:56:14 <andythenorth> 4am was not pretty 20:56:35 <andythenorth> we can't really deprecate setx I guess 20:56:45 <andythenorth> as newgrf spec may never deprecate things 20:56:53 <andythenorth> so maybe I should patch it for nml tomorrow 20:58:18 <andythenorth> good night 20:58:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 20:59:05 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-89.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:02:07 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:48 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 21:06:03 *** John_Snow [~broken@89.21.93.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:06:24 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: frosch * r24366 /trunk/src/script/api/script_vehicle.hpp: -Doc: Improve description of ScriptVehicle::GetCargoLoad. 21:10:02 *** APTX [APTX@aptx.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:15:14 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BC27.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:25 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 21:15:30 *** APTX [APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd 21:16:50 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f781b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:27 *** kkimlabs [~kkimlabs@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 21:32:06 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello084115143107.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:56 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-027-100.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 21:45:18 <Wolf01> 'night all 21:45:24 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:46:06 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@213-186-253-165.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:48:20 *** mal2_ [~mal2@port-92-206-87-88.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:48:26 *** MinchinWeb [~MinchinWe@S0106002401ce418e.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:56:56 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-242-89.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:58:28 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 22:02:46 <NGC3982> if i have multiple trains at a single pickup station 22:02:52 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host81-152-250-188.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0/20120628060610]] 22:03:34 <NGC3982> what parameter dictates when more then one of the trains pick up cargo simultaniusly 22:03:50 <NGC3982> with wait for full load, of course. 22:04:04 <NGC3982> i notice that it happends, but only sometimes? 22:04:09 <Supercheese> The loading algorithm, in conjunction with how much cargo is waiting 22:04:48 <NGC3982> is it configurable? 22:05:28 <Supercheese> Stations > Cargo Handling > Use improved loading algorithm 22:05:40 <NGC3982> ah, i see. i have "no" cargo waiting. since i have trains waiting at the station, the cargo goes almost instantly to a train. 22:05:47 <NGC3982> Supercheese: thanks! 22:06:11 <Supercheese> But yeah, if you have very little cargo, only 1 train loads at a time 22:06:27 <Supercheese> with the improved setting on anyway, I've never tested with it off 22:06:46 <NGC3982> i see 22:15:20 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:22:49 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:23:32 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Hugs to all] 22:25:04 <Terkhen> good night 22:25:11 <Supercheese> 'Night 22:27:11 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 13.0.1/20120614114901]] 22:58:14 <Beul> NGC3982, if irc with improved loading enabled two trains wil start loading simultanously if the cargo is sulpplied faster than the loading speed of the vehicle loading 22:59:39 <Beul> most newer caraiges/busses/trucks/trams have a property that defines how much cargo can be loaded per tick 23:02:26 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r24367 /trunk/src/ (7 files): -Feature: [NewGRF] Customisable signals for rail types. 23:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> :o 23:05:26 <Beul> Eddi|zuHause? 23:06:34 <Beul> michi_cc I love you! :D 23:07:10 <Beul> that was exacly what I need to make 'invisible'signals for my cablecars :D 23:08:30 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 23:14:24 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-90-14.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:18:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd suggest making them not invisible, but instead disguise them as something else 23:19:47 <Beul> well that is why I say "invisible":p 23:20:23 <Beul> I could indeed imagine a couple of problems with realt invisible signals :) 23:20:55 <Eddi|zuHause> indeed :) 23:23:21 <planetmaker> but they surely will come ;-) 23:24:04 <Beul> well to be honest development from my part might be interupted just as quick as it began... 23:25:03 <Beul> Next week this time I'll be some 10.000ft in the air somewhere above norhtern africa, only to return at the end of august 23:26:46 <michi_cc> Beul: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action3/Railtypes#Signal_sprites_.280B.29 23:29:17 <Beul> Nice michi_cc, I think some railset developers will also thak you for that ;) 23:30:55 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-139.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 23:31:43 *** roadt_ [~roadt@114.96.131.196] has joined #openttd 23:32:40 *** Wakou [~stephen@host86-129-34-31.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:25 <Beul> michi_cc troll :o 23:47:26 <Beul> :p 23:55:45 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.1.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving]