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00:00:18 *** APTX [APTX@2001:470:1f0b:1a9d:240:63ff:fefb:5994] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:03:34 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176110771.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 00:21:24 *** Supercheese [~chatzilla@50.37.115.113] has joined #openttd 00:22:39 *** APTX [APTX@2001:470:1f0b:1a9d:240:63ff:fefb:5994] has joined #openttd 00:33:14 *** Biolunar [~mahdi@blfd-5d82169c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: All your IRC are belong to us] 00:38:40 *** NataS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:38:45 *** Dr_Tan [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 00:39:47 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-013-150.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:53:54 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 00:55:19 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has joined #openttd 01:14:49 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.89.244] has joined #openttd 01:26:02 *** Supercheese [~chatzilla@50.37.115.113] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 01:29:14 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.134.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:32:13 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 01:45:07 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has left #openttd [] 01:45:07 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 01:45:10 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 01:48:40 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 02:16:23 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-97-92.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 02:28:23 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:18dc:bfa2:baef:7a6e] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:19:40 *** nicfer [~Administr@190.50.23.167] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:44:00 *** KouDy [~KouDy@172.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has joined #openttd 04:51:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6BB87.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 04:57:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B298.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:32:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5C05.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:32:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67E3C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:55:15 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has joined #openttd 06:04:37 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:07:41 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 06:44:08 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-103-237.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 06:45:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:45:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 06:48:40 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.66.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:53:00 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.67.54] has joined #openttd 06:57:43 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-103-237.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:16:45 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.66.17] has joined #openttd 07:21:02 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.67.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:24:07 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.72.146] has joined #openttd 07:29:18 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.66.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:45:36 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:48:22 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has joined #openttd 07:59:33 <NGC3982> Bah, i had this dream where i was a Mars Rover.. 08:00:00 <Supercheese> and you were astonished to find a cat on Mars, but then accidentally killed it? :P 08:00:14 <NGC3982> I was actually having some sort of Wall-e moment 08:02:27 <Supercheese> (Curiosity... cats... :P) 08:03:27 <Supercheese> night all 08:03:28 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 14.0.1/20120713134347]] 08:05:54 <Phazorx> NGC3982: were you getting service packs for 2 days in that dream? 08:06:30 <NGC3982> :) 08:06:51 <Eddi|zuHause> what 08:07:05 <Eddi|zuHause> 's the bandwidths to mars these days? 08:07:57 <Phazorx> 2Mbit peak after they upgrade MRO 08:08:12 <Phazorx> direct link from rover is <80k 08:08:26 <Phazorx> and not sure about uplink speeds 08:10:43 <Eddi|zuHause> what'S MRO? 08:11:02 <NGC3982> The difference in top and bottom speed in perihelion is 2 > 6Mb/s to the MRO 08:11:36 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: The MRO is the satellite that orbits mars to aid the communications with the rover. 08:11:44 <NGC3982> It also has some nifty cameras and instruments. 08:11:50 <Eddi|zuHause> aha 08:12:43 <NGC3982> For instance, it took the extremely elaborate step of photographing the parachute event when the rover landed 08:12:46 <NGC3982> http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/wiredscience/2012/08/MRO-hires.jpg 08:12:46 <Eddi|zuHause> is the manned mars mission in 2018-ish still planned? 08:13:01 <NGC3982> Note that the speed inwitch the camera takes this picture is locally relativt mach-2. 08:13:05 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Not really. 08:13:17 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: It's "on paper". But that doesn't really say anything. 08:13:31 <NGC3982> My guesses are that we wont have humans on mars until >2050. 08:13:48 <NGC3982> relative* 08:13:49 <Phazorx> i hope humans will last on earth till 2050 08:14:14 <NGC3982> Phazorx: We survived the nuke graze of the seventies and eighties, so i think we will manage. 08:16:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Phazorx: it's more likely that mankind will make a very slow decline over several hundred or thousand years 08:16:58 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of a "sudden death" 08:18:17 *** art0n [~arton@aakd121.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:23:04 *** Ciprian [Ciprian@dyn-89.136.61.9.tm.upcnet.ro] has joined #openttd 08:23:56 <Ciprian> I've got a problem 08:24:33 <Ciprian> I've installed the ECS NewGRFs, but there are no means to trasnport for tourists, glass, sand and others 08:24:35 <NGC3982> Ciprian: Shoot! 08:24:36 <Ciprian> What do I do? 08:24:37 <Ciprian> :/ 08:25:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Ciprian: you need a vehicle set that can transport them 08:25:24 <Ciprian> I've already started the game, though 08:25:31 <NGC3982> Ciprian: As Eddi said, and there is a separate NewGRF for that. 08:25:36 <Eddi|zuHause> you have to start a new game 08:25:53 <Ciprian> fff 08:25:56 <Ciprian> Ok, thanks 08:26:46 <Ciprian> Do you know any vehicle set for the ECS? 08:27:07 <NGC3982> Ciprian: Yes. 08:27:27 <Eddi|zuHause> most of the ones on the content download support ECS 08:27:28 <NGC3982> Ciprian: In the online-content, you should be abled to find "ECS & FIRS Original Vehicle Set". 08:28:05 <NGC3982> Ciprian: That introduces no new vehicles, but makes the default one's accept the ECS or FIRS cargo. 08:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause> note that you need one set for each vehicle type (trains, road, ship, aircraft) 08:35:37 <Phazorx> are there ecs compatible aircrafts? 08:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause> why wouldn't there be? 08:37:06 <Phazorx> just havent seen any 08:37:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and it's "one aircraft" - "many aircraft" 08:37:21 <Eddi|zuHause> always singular 08:53:15 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:53:59 <Terkhen> good morning 09:09:39 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Seriosly, that's your answer? 09:11:15 <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of answer do you want? 09:14:06 <NGC3982> Phazorx: You will have to excuse the blunt behaviour. Yes, there are a lot of refits available for aircraft vehicles. The 'ECS & FIRS Vehicle Set' (See online-content) makes all standard OpenTTD vehicles refitable to ECS or FIRS cargo. Although, note that all vehicles does not accept all ECS or FIRS cargo. 09:15:07 <NGC3982> Phazorx: I also think that NewGRF's like AV8 and similar automaticly handles ECS or FIRS refit settings. 09:15:20 <NGC3982> But i suggest you try that one out before you take that as truth. :P 09:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not like Phazorx found this game yesterday... 09:15:35 <NGC3982> Who cares. Don't be mean. 09:16:25 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure where i was "mean"... 09:20:35 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has joined #openttd 09:21:09 <Wolf01> hello o/ 09:22:36 *** bb10X [~bb10@bb10x.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:23:07 *** bb10 [~bb10@bb10x.org] has joined #openttd 09:25:30 <NGC3982> Wolf01: \o 09:26:01 <Phazorx> and yes, dont be mean! 09:26:27 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 09:26:36 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [] 09:26:41 <Phazorx> NGC3982: yeah, i know about ecs adapter, specifically about a variety of them for DBset, lv4, newships etc 09:26:53 <Phazorx> so abcence of ecs adapter is a sign of no support to me 09:28:01 <FLHerne> Phazorx: Might just be a sign that the developer doesn't play with ECS or care much about it? :P 09:28:49 <FLHerne> andythenorth hasn't made CHIPS work properly with OpenGFX yet for the same reason, that doesn't make either unsupported :P 09:39:30 *** arton [~arton@ebh56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 09:44:40 *** GBerten2936 is now known as lugo 09:49:30 <lugo> oohhh! vaulter updated his patchpack! 09:49:38 <lugo> niccce 09:50:26 * lugo bluntly requests a win32-binary :) 09:51:35 <lugo> IS, daylength, improved breakdowns.. this looks.....promising :) 10:00:00 <Sacro> lugo: link me 10:00:25 <lugo> Sacro: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1039577#p1039577 10:03:00 <Sacro> danke 10:06:21 <NGC3982> Phazorx: :) 10:07:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Phazorx: "ECS Adapter" is only needed for really old grfs 10:07:16 <__ln__> 11:39 < NGC3982> Who cares. Don't be mean. <-- a lot of people care, and Eddi was not being mean. 10:07:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Phazorx: meaning most newer GRFs have it out-of-the-box 10:15:12 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-217-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:29:18 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@150.40.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has joined #openttd 10:33:27 *** KouDy [~KouDy@172.41.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:35:16 <__ln__> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9230151/NASA_upgrades_Mars_Curiosity_software_..._from_350M_miles_away 10:44:52 *** Elukka [Elukka@78-27-97-92.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:07:59 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176110771.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 11:08:14 <drac_boy> hi 11:23:05 <Ciprian> Hi 11:24:06 <drac_boy> how doing? 11:25:58 <TrueBrain> lugo: ask it to be compiled by the CF, always up-to-date binaries :P 11:26:46 <TrueBrain> (he just has to start using some kind of VCS; that will be the hard part :D) 12:11:02 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.89.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:52 *** drush [~drush@93-94-245-108.dynamic.swissvpn.net] has joined #openttd 12:17:25 *** peter1138 [~peter@petern.bnsnet.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:17:50 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has left #openttd [] 12:17:50 *** michi_cc [~michi@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 12:17:53 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 12:23:11 <peter1138> So, uh, is Windows Update not working for anyone else? 12:23:55 <drac_boy> don't know sorry :) 12:24:01 <peter1138> Do you use Windows? 12:25:56 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.131.32] has joined #openttd 12:28:08 <peter1138> Hmm... http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_other-windows_update/windows-update-looping-on-server-2003/f8a9ce82-de88-4563-8144-46298ec08fac 12:28:20 <drush> yep, not using windows 12:29:13 <drush> however, windows update may loop in a circumstance where you localized your OS with vistalizator and you're trying to get a service pack for the new language 12:29:40 <peter1138> Vistalizator? What? 12:29:56 <drush> it's a software piece that localizes vista and 7 12:30:32 <peter1138> Ah, not it's not that. This is a fresh install. 12:30:47 <drac_boy> only one windows for occassional cd games but otherwise thats pretty much it (and yeah it doesn't have much of a net) 12:31:31 <__ln__> drac_boy: my 7 was already localized after installation. 12:39:39 *** art0n [~arton@eat183.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 12:43:06 *** arton [~arton@ebh56.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:49:41 *** Ciprian [Ciprian@dyn-89.136.61.9.tm.upcnet.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:50:27 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 13:22:04 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:22:45 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 13:43:25 <kais58> when building on windows should I use the microsoft compiler or gcc? 13:44:39 <drush> kais58 I honestly wouldn't know which one would be better and how could I decide which one is 13:45:03 <drush> primarily because openttd doesn't have performance benchmarks :( 13:45:26 * drac_boy would had used gcc but thats me 13:47:48 <TrueBrain> what a silly answer is that, lolz 13:49:05 <TrueBrain> kais58: on windows, if you use gcc, you need a glue library (mingw, cygwin, ..). After that, it doesn't really matter .. MSVC can't make binaries for win9x, so it really depends :D 13:54:28 <drush> TrueBrain what is the purpose of win9x? 13:56:12 <TrueBrain> what is the purpose of life? 13:56:57 <drush> I cannot answer that question, 13:56:57 <drac_boy> heh 13:57:30 <drush> however, I do have reasons to leave 9x alone 13:58:29 <TrueBrain> good for you 13:59:43 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@94.13.8.182] has joined #openttd 14:00:43 * NGC3982 has this computer at work that still runs Windows 98. 14:01:16 <drush> wow 14:02:07 * drac_boy still uses 98se for the lone windows box due to cost anyhow 14:04:10 <TrueBrain> rsync: command not found 14:04:15 <TrueBrain> lolz; my default installs are too slim :D 14:04:16 * drush abandoned microsoft's ship for linux 14:04:48 <NGC3982> drac_boy: For the low cost of what? Windows98? ;D 14:05:19 <drac_boy> NGC3982 low cost of software budgetting 14:05:21 * NGC3982 enjoys Windows 7 a great deal. 14:05:25 <NGC3982> drac_boy: Ah, i see. 14:05:39 <drac_boy> TrueBrain heh do you still have 'ls' directory command? :) 14:06:10 <TrueBrain> I am not sure if 'rsync' and 'ls' are on the same level there, but meh :P 14:10:34 <drac_boy> NGC3982 after all why spend another 0 on hardware+software just to do the same tasks at more or less same speed. but of course that may be a little prejuiced :p 14:10:50 <TrueBrain> drac_boy: 1 word: Raspberry PI :P 14:11:19 <drush> those are 2 words 14:11:45 <TrueBrain> Achievement unlocked: mister obvious 14:12:05 <drush> but yeah, 14:12:06 <drac_boy> TrueBrain problem is the lack of video aside to other peripheral i/o 14:12:11 <drac_boy> heh drush 14:12:13 <drush> that is a budget-friendly computer 14:12:44 <TrueBrain> drac_boy: I think atm it is more an issue of getting one :P 14:13:13 <kais58> TrueBrain: not really, I have one and quite a few people I know do too 14:13:16 <drush> drac_boy are you sure? 14:13:25 <TrueBrain> kais58: and this is evidence it is easy to get how? :) 14:13:35 <kais58> infact, taht's what I'm running irssi on right now :) 14:13:43 <drush> one of my friends who owns those asked me to recommend a DE for it, so I assume he had a way of outputing video 14:13:47 <TrueBrain> kais58: if I own a spaceship, does that mean it is easy to get for everyone? :P 14:14:06 <kais58> TrueBrain: Shush you 14:14:17 <TrueBrain> kais58: you started :P 14:14:36 <kais58> drush: they have HDMI and composite video out 14:14:39 <drac_boy> drush..yeah composite isn't really good for more than 320x240 which pretty much removes the plausibility of computer desktops 14:14:50 <drac_boy> so with no video its kinda out of the question 14:14:53 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 14:15:01 <drush> what about workstations? 14:15:11 <TrueBrain> DVI to VGA convertor :D (shitty stuff btw, don't do it :P) 14:15:46 <drac_boy> TrueBrain that only works for normal dvi ports which isn't present 14:15:55 <TrueBrain> drac_boy: no, you have active convertors 14:15:59 <TrueBrain> like HDMI to VGA too 14:16:02 <NGC3982> drac_boy: True. Using what you have without wasting resources is a basis of success. 14:16:06 <TrueBrain> they just ocnvert digital to analog signal 14:16:14 <TrueBrain> it is not a real issue to do that .. it just requires another device with power 14:16:15 <TrueBrain> which sucks 14:16:16 <drush> TrueBrain those require additional power to do the conversion 14:16:25 <drush> because DVI-A to VGA is just rewiring 14:16:58 <kais58> or you just use a HDMI/DVI monitor... 14:17:04 <drush> ^ 14:17:08 <TrueBrain> kais58: I need to get one .... a 19" non-WD ... 14:17:15 <TrueBrain> any idea how hard those are to get these days? 14:17:20 <TrueBrain> all freaking monitors are WD :( 14:17:23 <drac_boy> NGC3982 not perfect anatomy but sometimes I think its like cars.. why scrap your rustfree 2001 car just because its more than one year old and isn't giving you any issues yet? 14:17:28 <kais58> WD? 14:17:31 <drush> wide 14:17:35 <TrueBrain> Widescreens 14:17:37 <kais58> oh, why not? 14:17:47 <TrueBrain> in LEDs it seems they are not produced or what-ever 14:17:53 <drush> I heard 16:9 is unhealthy for eyes 14:17:54 <TrueBrain> in LCD it is rather hard to find someone with a stock :P 14:18:05 <NGC3982> drac_boy: Exactly. Well, that is; If you own the car for practisicm (english?). 14:18:17 <drac_boy> NGC3982 I forgot the spelling but I know what you're saying 14:18:30 <TrueBrain> drac_boy: if it aint broken, don't fix it ;) 14:18:38 <drush> and I heard rts gamers hate WD for ruining concentration 14:18:41 <TrueBrain> the slogon of many many many many companies :D 14:18:47 <drac_boy> drush I've rather liked 4:3 or some 16:10 for the reason of that I deal with text more than video so the vertical space is needed 14:18:52 <NGC3982> TrueBrain: I needed that quote today. 14:19:14 <TrueBrain> drac_boy: 2 columns! :P 14:19:17 <TrueBrain> (now I am just silly) 14:19:24 <NGC3982> TrueBrain: I thought to myself "Hey, let's clean up the office cable mess" and with greatness and grace killed the internet connection for 66 people. 14:19:26 <drac_boy> I hate 1366x768 period .... its much less space than 1240x1024 anyway 14:19:36 <TrueBrain> NGC3982: been there, done that :P 14:19:40 <TrueBrain> got the tshirt 14:19:42 <drac_boy> heh NGC3982 ops? :-s 14:19:43 <NGC3982> Hehe 14:20:08 <NGC3982> Well, yeah. It happends. Note that this is a company where im in charge of all the technical stuff, and im not a technician. 14:20:14 <TrueBrain> its one of the reason I am allowed in first when we are wiring in a DC or company 14:20:16 <kais58> drac_boy: that's what my laptop screen is, it's terribad 14:20:26 <TrueBrain> as my way of putting down wires is ...... clean and ordered :P 14:20:29 <drac_boy> kais58 yeah 14:20:57 <drush> 720p is just copypaste silverscreen 14:23:48 <TrueBrain> hmm, so --delete-excluded doesn't do what I expected ... that is annoying 14:27:39 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 14:32:54 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has joined #openttd 14:41:07 <peter1138> mass market :-( 14:41:18 <drac_boy> at least grfs themself more or less don't even care for the os you're on which is good :) 14:41:29 <peter1138> There are some benefits, like laptops don't cost £800 for something basic these days. 14:42:30 <TrueBrain> rsync -av -L --delete --delte-excluded --ignore-errors --include-from=../test.mirror --exclude\* . ../remote-test 14:42:32 <TrueBrain> and it works :P 14:44:11 <drac_boy> anyway going for now as usual 14:44:16 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176110771.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 14:44:48 <TrueBrain> (minus all the typos :P) 15:09:50 *** art0n [~arton@eat183.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:16:09 *** art0n [~arton@eat183.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 15:48:40 *** Markk [mark@metamfetam.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:06:16 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590d5f89.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:09:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590d5f89.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:12:00 <andythenorth> @seen pikka 16:12:00 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 11 weeks, 6 days, 9 hours, 1 minute, and 26 seconds ago: <Pikka> hello Alberth 16:12:06 <andythenorth> :( 16:17:22 <V453000> :o 16:22:09 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: have you tried the @summon command? 16:22:24 <andythenorth> doesn't work for Australia 16:22:34 <andythenorth> @nommus might 16:22:37 <TrueBrain> they should patch that 16:26:05 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:53:12 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-020-069.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 16:54:28 *** peter1138 [~peter@petern.bnsnet.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:12:44 *** Markk [mark@metamfetam.in] has joined #openttd 17:21:31 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:54:50 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has joined #openttd 17:59:11 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:781c:f43d:972c:43be] has joined #openttd 17:59:14 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:03:41 *** Guilux [~Guilux@chenapan.net] has quit [Quit: [RESET]] 18:04:24 <andythenorth> roadtypes! 18:04:35 * andythenorth thought it was quiet 18:04:39 <andythenorth> it's very boring 18:05:46 *** Ciprian [Ciprian@dyn-89.136.61.9.tm.upcnet.ro] has joined #openttd 18:09:51 *** TheDude [~Miranda@2.237.broadband7.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 18:10:50 *** KouDy1 [~KouDy@150.40.49.60.kmr01-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:11:45 *** TheDude [~Miranda@2.237.broadband7.iol.cz] has quit [] 18:13:21 <FLHerne> It is quite quiet 18:13:42 <FLHerne> andythenorth: How do you get your pixel art to look right? :P 18:13:54 <andythenorth> practice 18:13:56 <andythenorth> lots 18:13:58 <FLHerne> :P 18:13:59 <andythenorth> and lighting 18:14:03 <andythenorth> and contrast 18:14:08 <andythenorth> and don't use too many shades in one place 18:14:10 <andythenorth> is all 18:14:50 <FLHerne> I've been trying to draw your asphalt tiles on slopes. I think I've got the lighting right(ish) now, but I can't get them looking 'smooth' enough :P 18:15:10 <FLHerne> They're sort of speckled, which doesn't look right :-( 18:17:10 <andythenorth> how many shades are you using? 18:19:54 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-020-069.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 18:20:13 <FLHerne> About 3 or so together. Four or five in total when there's a big difference in lighting. 18:21:12 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: translators * r24463 /trunk/src/lang/korean.txt: 18:21:12 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:21:12 <CIA-4> OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by telk5093 18:23:24 <andythenorth> FLHerne: use no more than 3 18:23:27 <andythenorth> a paste would help :P 18:23:34 <andythenorth> ask for forum comments 18:27:14 <FLHerne> Ah well. I'll think about it while camping :D 18:31:41 *** Dozzer [Ciprian@dyn-89.136.61.9.tm.upcnet.ro] has joined #openttd 18:37:19 *** Ciprian [Ciprian@dyn-89.136.61.9.tm.upcnet.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:38:25 * andythenorth ponders playing the game 18:38:34 <TrueBrain> iek 18:38:35 <TrueBrain> don't be silly 18:39:11 <andythenorth> I always regret it when I do 18:39:26 <andythenorth> it's just so pointless 18:39:41 <andythenorth> not that there should be a point to games 18:40:19 <andythenorth> but meh 18:40:27 <andythenorth> I could start converting FIRS to python 18:40:33 <andythenorth> that would be...interesting 18:41:12 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I've been working with pyramid app framework 18:41:26 <andythenorth> they claim it's unopinionated...they seem to really mean it 18:42:21 <andythenorth> http://www.pylonsproject.org/ 18:42:30 <andythenorth> I know you are sticking with Django ;) 18:42:57 <TrueBrain> wtf is unopinionated? 18:43:01 <TrueBrain> that it has no opinion? 18:43:04 <TrueBrain> sounds horrible :P 18:43:05 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has joined #openttd 18:43:08 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:43:24 <Alberth> hi hi 18:44:00 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: you go on their irc channel and ask "is it ok to do xyz" and they're like "yeah, whatever works" 18:44:12 <andythenorth> most python web frameworks are...more opinionated :P 18:44:30 <TrueBrain> like I said, sounds horrible :) 18:44:34 <andythenorth> more like "blah is the one and only correct method" 18:44:38 <TrueBrain> sounds without direction :P 18:44:41 <andythenorth> nah 18:44:43 <andythenorth> it's good 18:44:55 <TrueBrain> you should have at least a standard, or a goal, or a prefered way 18:45:00 <andythenorth> that's nice 18:45:01 <TrueBrain> whatever works comes to bite you in the ass 18:45:09 <TrueBrain> (hacks, ...) 18:45:23 <andythenorth> but from 10 years of opinionated web frameworks, we've learnt that 'blah is the only correct way' changes every 2 years :P 18:45:46 <andythenorth> and 'blah' is often a bit insane and requires huge frameworks to just get a page online :P 18:45:48 <TrueBrain> I would never use "correct way", but "prefered way" is at least mandatory 18:45:51 <Alberth> trying to win a editor^H^H^H^H^H^Hframework war? 18:45:59 <TrueBrain> it is like accepting all OpenTTD patches I have seen in the world when we received them 18:46:07 <TrueBrain> it would make OpenTTD source code TOTALLY unreadable, and VERY unstable :P 18:46:21 <TrueBrain> Alberth: war? I think you misunderstand this conversation by miles :D 18:46:51 <TrueBrain> andythenorth is telling an unopinionated framework is nice to work with, and I have a hard time grasping that concept ;) 18:46:57 <Alberth> that's an option :) 18:47:08 <andythenorth> it's fun 18:47:20 <andythenorth> you just write code and it appears in your browser 18:47:28 <Alberth> TrueBrain: yeah, that sounds weird indeed :) 18:47:46 <andythenorth> code that works without having to do loads of bureacracy :) 18:47:51 * TrueBrain is writing his own PHP framework ... many asked me why, and not took an existing ... 18:47:57 <TrueBrain> the answer is easy: if I write A, I want A to happen 18:48:00 <TrueBrain> not B, not C .. A 18:48:12 <TrueBrain> in result, my 'modules' are often 10 lines, instead of 100 :P 18:48:17 <andythenorth> good luck :D 18:48:31 <TrueBrain> well, it is already done, so no luck required anymore :P 18:48:32 <TrueBrain> tnx anyway :D 18:48:37 <TrueBrain> PHP is still an horrible language btw :P 18:48:46 <andythenorth> that's what you needed the luck for ;) 18:49:00 <Alberth> yeah, I'd not use PHP 18:49:06 <TrueBrain> you cannot send $this to an anonymous function .. so ... $t = $this, and you send $t 18:49:09 <TrueBrain> exactly the same effect :P 18:49:28 <TrueBrain> its like .. seriously .... 18:49:46 <TrueBrain> static variables have NOTHING to do with static .. it is merely: these variables are copied on creation, that is all :P 18:49:46 <Alberth> it took me less than 2 days to find such messy cases 18:50:00 <TrueBrain> you can runtime change static variables 18:50:06 <TrueBrain> per class ... 18:50:11 <TrueBrain> euh, hmm, that is not clear ... 18:50:20 <TrueBrain> class A extends class B, having a static variable C 18:50:22 <Alberth> that's fine, PHP isn't either :) 18:50:30 <TrueBrain> A::C == B::C .. but .. that link is not set .. you can break it .. runtie ... 18:50:48 <Alberth> joy :) 18:51:00 <TrueBrain> so yeah, you are right, lets not talk about PHP :D 18:51:02 <TrueBrain> hihihihihihi 18:51:15 * andythenorth considers openttd some more 18:51:16 *** RichyB [~richardb@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:51:40 <RichyB> Did I just miss a really good PHP rant? 18:52:25 <andythenorth> http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 18:52:33 <TrueBrain> why do I always feel weird when I realise people read an IRC channel via a logger, and rush to the channel when they think they can join in ... 18:52:45 <TrueBrain> I might read the situation wrong ofc, but it happens more and more 18:52:49 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I told him 18:53:05 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: pfew :P 18:53:05 <andythenorth> we have some small dislikes of PHP 18:53:17 <TrueBrain> everyone has .. and who hasn't, hasn't used it 18:53:23 <RichyB> TrueBrain: oh, please excuse me, I was just being a dick. :) 18:53:24 <TrueBrain> its like Java ... 18:53:37 <andythenorth> I haven't used PHP, but I've hired people who can only use PHP :P 18:53:38 <TrueBrain> RichyB: troll was more the word I would like to use :P 18:53:48 <andythenorth> "Only PHP" is not a good sign 18:53:52 <andythenorth> nor is "only perl" 18:54:00 <TrueBrain> Perl is not a language 18:54:13 <TrueBrain> so who ever writes down at: Languages: Perl 18:54:17 <TrueBrain> should be hit with a stick :P 18:54:19 <TrueBrain> several times! 18:54:26 <RichyB> TrueBrain: trolling is an art form, I daren't sully its name by associating it with my own crap efforts. ;P 18:54:33 <andythenorth> there are probably 17 ways to hit them with a perl stick 18:54:45 <andythenorth> and depending who wrote it, it may make no sense to anyone ele 18:54:47 <andythenorth> else * 18:55:30 <andythenorth> hmm 18:55:34 <andythenorth> this cheese has been on the floor 18:55:40 * andythenorth eats it anyway 18:55:40 <RichyB> Most of the Perl programmers I've spoken with claim that Perl might not be a good programming language, but it does *contain*... several good programming languages. ;) 18:56:06 <TrueBrain> RichyB: I am not even debating if it is a good language or not 18:56:10 <TrueBrain> I am telling it is not a language at all :D 18:56:23 <RichyB> Eh. Where's the standard place these days to buy a copy of TTD online? 18:56:24 <andythenorth> RichyB: maybe I should point you to our list of unfinished ottd patches :P 18:56:35 <andythenorth> then you can spend your weekend with c++ :P 18:56:46 <TrueBrain> I once had such a good URL explaining why Perl is not a language .. where do I have it ... 18:56:55 <RichyB> It's not on Steam. 18:57:19 <TrueBrain> http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=663393 18:57:35 <RichyB> Sorry, serious question. I have no idea where my Transport Tycoon disk went and I'm too impatient to wait for eBay or anything to ship me a new physical one. 18:57:51 <TrueBrain> TTD is not officially sold anymore 18:57:58 <TrueBrain> anyone who claims they do, are ripoffs (and in fact illegal) 18:58:11 <RichyB> So there does not exist any website online where I can put money in and get a non-warez copy of TTD? :( 18:58:17 <TrueBrain> "Kennedy's Lemma: If you can parse Perl, you can solve the Halting Problem. " 18:58:19 <andythenorth> play with opengfx ;) 18:58:24 <TrueBrain> you don't need TTD 18:58:31 <TrueBrain> download OpenTTD, download opengfx, done :) 18:58:43 <RichyB> Okay. Thank you. 18:59:03 <andythenorth> http://wiki.openttd.org/Todo_list 18:59:13 <TrueBrain> stop talking about OpenTTD 18:59:15 <TrueBrain> it is boring 18:59:58 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.131.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:00:12 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: have you solved your mirrors problem? 19:00:17 <andythenorth> that's kind of not OpenTTD 19:00:18 <andythenorth> :P 19:00:31 <TrueBrain> working on it .. slowly 19:00:35 <TrueBrain> rsync is not the best in documetation 19:00:50 <TrueBrain> "unless one of the transfer-statistic escapes is requested" 19:00:54 <TrueBrain> no fucking clue what they mean 19:01:03 <TrueBrain> no other references are made about it 19:01:14 <andythenorth> ask for your money back :) 19:01:38 <Alberth> no #rsync ? :( 19:02:17 <TrueBrain> I am trrying to get a list of files that are mirror'd at the end of rsync 19:02:20 <TrueBrain> instead of making a second call 19:02:22 <TrueBrain> which feels silly 19:03:52 <Alberth> the list of files at the local disk, or is that too simplistic? 19:04:03 <TrueBrain> it needs to be the remote 19:04:08 <TrueBrain> as I want to know which files ended up there 19:06:46 <Sacro> Erugh, why does openttd use a new font 19:08:34 <FLHerne> Does anyone know what the minimum useful specs are for the Android port? 19:08:35 <Sacro> Ah, blitter 19:08:42 <Sacro> FLHerne: you'll need Android 19:08:49 <drush> FLHerne hardware-wise? 19:08:56 <FLHerne> I'm never quite sure how ARM perfomance compares to anything else :P 19:09:33 <drush> FLHerne it compares pretty good with x86, especially armv6 19:09:51 <drush> I have OpenTTD installed on my N95 (armv6+fpu) and it works smooth 19:10:08 <FLHerne> drush: Thanks. So a 1GHz one should be playable to some extent? 19:10:17 <drush> FLHerne OF COURSE 19:10:25 <drush> N95 is a 300MHz ARM 19:10:46 <FLHerne> Ah, great :P 19:10:57 <drush> btw, FLHerne, how do you build for Android? 19:11:04 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:11:15 <Alberth> cross-compiling :) 19:11:17 <TrueBrain> FLHerne: I think that the CPU wouldn't you biggest issue, performance wise 19:11:22 <drush> obviously, 19:11:22 <TrueBrain> it of course depends how many trains you are going to build 19:11:27 <TrueBrain> and how many NewGRFs you are using 19:11:31 <FLHerne> Dunno. Haven't tried that. Been using PPC for my weird-processor fix :P 19:11:32 <drush> but any problems to aboid? 19:11:34 <drush> avoid* 19:11:37 <TrueBrain> (I can kill a 3 GHz with enough NewGRFs :P) 19:11:54 <drush> because I am making a port for PS3 GameOS and it's not going very smooth 19:12:07 <Alberth> luclily the max number of newgrfs is quite finite :) 19:12:09 *** cypher [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [] 19:12:13 <FLHerne> TrueBrain: The 400MB RAM might be more of a limit, actually :P 19:12:23 <TrueBrain> it most likely will, depending on your resolution 19:12:24 <FLHerne> I know it'll be playable though :-) 19:12:26 <TrueBrain> and if you go 32bpp :P 19:12:35 <TrueBrain> if you look over how OpenTTD runs on a Raspberry PI 19:12:40 <TrueBrain> you see a lot of issues in certain video modes 19:12:51 <FLHerne> 32bpp is probably one to avoid... 19:12:55 <TrueBrain> to me it reads like SDL is fucking something up, but I cannot be sure till I have one myself :P 19:13:23 <TrueBrain> no (or very limited) NewGRFs, 8bpp, a 100 train limit or something, and you should be more than fine on any CPU :P 19:13:51 <RichyB> TTD is still completely single-threaded, right? 19:13:53 <TrueBrain> in regards to performance, an ARM is a so called RISC CPU .. things go a bit slower ;) 19:13:56 <RichyB> *OTTD 19:13:57 <TrueBrain> RichyB: wrong ;) 19:14:10 <RichyB> TrueBrain: cool! When did that change and how? :D 19:14:12 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:14:17 <TrueBrain> RichyB: rendering (on most platforms) and saving your game is threaded 19:14:24 <TrueBrain> terrain generation has been threaded for years now 19:14:30 <TrueBrain> I wrote that ... well .. years ago 19:14:39 <TrueBrain> AIs run in threads (but no parallel) 19:14:42 <drush> TrueBrain is terrain generation benchmarkable? 19:14:59 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 19:15:02 <TrueBrain> what is that kind of question? 19:15:11 <TrueBrain> is NN benchmarkable? Answer, in all cases: YES 19:15:24 <RichyB> TrueBrain: so if you have multiple AIs, each AI has its own thread, but there's no parallelism within each of the AIs? 19:15:32 <TrueBrain> RichyB: they run one by one 19:15:47 <andythenorth> only so many instructions per tick? 19:15:50 <TrueBrain> well, I believe we removed the threads by now 19:15:55 <TrueBrain> as they run in a VM :P 19:16:07 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: by now? Understatement of the week! 19:16:22 <RichyB> If I want to fix bugs, I should use trunk OpenTTD and stable OpenGFX, right? 19:16:27 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: VMs can be seen as threads too, tbh 19:16:30 <TrueBrain> makes it easier to think about ;) 19:16:34 <Rubidium> drush: you can benchmark everything. Whether it's reproducable and/or representative is something else 19:16:56 <TrueBrain> RichyB: but I think you were more wondering it map access is threaded, and that is a big NO 19:17:07 <Rubidium> in case with map generation: having it depend on 'randomness' basically means it's not reproducable 19:17:50 <TrueBrain> RichyB: "multithreaded" is such a hype, that many forget it doesn't mean anything really 19:17:58 <RichyB> TrueBrain: everything. I was expecting that OTTD would have the same behaviour as the old DOS versions: game tick, rendering and everything all in a single loop. 19:18:13 <TrueBrain> we left that years ago 19:18:28 <TrueBrain> but we don't have a lot of parallel code 19:18:33 <RichyB> ...? To me, "multithreaded" means "I called pthread_create(3) at least once and intend to call pthread_join(3) the same number of times." 19:18:52 <TrueBrain> RichyB: but what does that mean for an application? 19:19:05 <TrueBrain> with that, I can make ANY application multithreaded 19:19:19 <Rubidium> well, in short: one thread for audio playback, one for music, one for autosave, one for pushing graphics into the graphics card (if supported), one for DNS resolution, and one for the rest 19:19:24 <TrueBrain> just make a bootstrap which does a pthread_create, run the process, and do a pthread_join 19:19:27 <TrueBrain> doesn't make it threaded ;) 19:19:34 <RichyB> It meanst that the application definitely, and I mean *definitely* suffers from context-switching overhead. Not much else. ;) 19:19:48 <TrueBrain> well, if that is your definition, then you are absolutely right :) 19:20:05 <andythenorth> RichyB: if you want to fix bugs use trunk openttd and stable opengfx 19:20:10 <TrueBrain> although if it 'suffers' from it, you might want to remove the threading ;) 19:20:19 <andythenorth> patches go on fs or forums 19:20:25 <andythenorth> http://bugs.openttd.org/ 19:20:49 <Rubidium> context switching isn't the main problem for not mass multithreading OpenTTD. Game state consistency is, i.e. locking/synchronisation and you need a load of that 19:20:58 <TrueBrain> RichyB: but even DOS has threading, in the form of Terminated Stay Resident applications ;) 19:21:11 <Rubidium> not to speak about multiplayer where every decision needs to be ran in the same order 19:22:03 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you can still parallel read-only actions, like for example pathfinding ;) 19:22:16 <TrueBrain> too bad we use caches ... 19:22:21 <RichyB> Okay, so the question isn't "does this use multiple threads" as "can I make this program go faster by adding more cores instead of faster cores?" :P 19:22:39 <TrueBrain> in that case, no 19:22:46 <TrueBrain> adding more cores does absolutely nothing for OpenTTD :P 19:22:52 <andythenorth> there are a lot of forum threads about why 19:22:53 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: except that there is an interdependency between trains etc 19:22:55 <TrueBrain> (given you already have 4+ :P) 19:23:03 <andythenorth> some threads more ranty than others :P 19:23:25 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: much smaller conflict zone; nevertheless, caching will always win 19:23:36 <drush> does anyone know what consequence would it have, if I forcibly removed -rdynamic flag from OTTD makefiles? 19:24:01 <andythenorth> RichyB: interesting questions in the code include "wtf is terragenesis actually doing?", because apparently the code their contains some lies 19:24:09 <andythenorth> depends how excited you are by perlin noise :P 19:24:17 <RichyB> andythenorth: well yeah, I wasn't really expecting the answer to the latter question to be "yes"; you can write games where it is, but you have to be careful about data dependencies in order to avoid needing much synchronisation. 19:24:42 <TrueBrain> because OpenTTD in its core has a single map structure 19:24:51 <TrueBrain> multithreading there is very unlikely to gain performance 19:25:32 <TrueBrain> years ago I made some drafts to split a map in 4 segments, each running in its own instance (with the idea of an MMO OpenTTD :P) 19:25:36 <andythenorth> RichyB: OS X bugs? :) http://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=OSX&project=1&type%5b%5d=1&status%5b%5d=open&do=index 19:25:40 <TrueBrain> where only the borders synchronize 19:25:48 <TrueBrain> its doable, but A LOT of work :( 19:25:51 <andythenorth> your're probably near an OS X box :P 19:25:55 <RichyB> andythenorth: I have no Mac on which to test. 19:26:11 <andythenorth> I bet you can see one right now :P 19:26:15 <TrueBrain> that would allow OpenTTD to use more cores :P But meh ... 19:26:27 <andythenorth> heh 19:26:32 <andythenorth> MMO OpenTTD 19:26:37 <Alberth> 2 segments would be a big gain already imho 19:26:41 <andythenorth> might make it interesting again 19:26:43 <TrueBrain> I have some pretty detailed plans for it andythenorth :P 19:27:07 <TrueBrain> the problem is that the client has to be rewritten basically, in how it works 19:27:08 <Alberth> MMO dune is easier probably :) 19:27:13 <TrueBrain> which ... amde me ... go ....... booooooo 19:27:20 <TrueBrain> Alberth: have plans for that too :D But gameplay is VERY hard 19:27:25 <RichyB> TrueBrain: ignoring OpenTTD for the moment because we know that that's not happening; data parallelism in a videogame looks like, for example, and RTS where you can update every unit's state in parallel because you do no data modifications in-place. Rather, you have two complete copies of the giant array of units, and you copy-and-modify from one into the other every frame. 19:27:26 <TrueBrain> mostly: what happens if you log off :P 19:27:47 <TrueBrain> RichyB: I am well aware how threading works, thank you very much ;) 19:28:13 <RichyB> Good. Point is, you have to plan for that well in advance. :P 19:28:34 <andythenorth> Chris Sawyer didn't :P 19:28:52 <andythenorth> maybe I should learn how GS works 19:29:00 <andythenorth> and write a 1-hour gamplay challenge 19:29:10 <RichyB> GS? 19:29:16 <andythenorth> GameScripts 19:29:24 <andythenorth> same Squirrel as the AI library 19:29:36 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=65 19:29:46 <TrueBrain> Alberth: honestly, it was the whole idea of OpenDUNE, to transform it into an MMO :P It failed kinda hard ;) 19:29:56 <andythenorth> truebrain has an API definition for GS somewhere 19:30:04 <TrueBrain> http://nogo.openttd.org/ 19:30:05 <TrueBrain> I am guessing? 19:30:15 <andythenorth> win 19:30:22 <TrueBrain> a free cookie for me 19:30:23 <TrueBrain> hmm 19:30:31 <TrueBrain> which site is not following OPTA? 19:30:35 <andythenorth> I'll mail the cookie 19:30:36 <TrueBrain> any dutch gov site ... so ... 19:30:38 <TrueBrain> hmm 19:30:48 <TrueBrain> lets visit .... www.belastingdienst.nl , yippie, a cookie! 19:31:10 <andythenorth> cookie law? 19:31:14 <TrueBrain> (for the non-dutchies: we have a new law which obligates site owners to opt-in any non-functional cookies 19:31:17 <andythenorth> don't please mention cookie law 19:31:24 <andythenorth> it's too painful, too expensive 19:31:28 <TrueBrain> our gov told last week that they don't have to obey that law, as they are not commercially) 19:31:40 <andythenorth> our gov decided unilaterally not to bother :P 19:31:51 <andythenorth> except for the bits that do 19:31:54 <TrueBrain> it is by far the worst law in months :P 19:32:03 <TrueBrain> ACTA was worse, but this is close following :P 19:32:04 <andythenorth> it's more fun when your customers are gov 19:32:13 <drush> do I know 19:32:39 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: tell me about it :P 19:32:41 <drush> I heard that in Poland, if a new law is unconstitutional, 19:32:49 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: really, I could :P 19:32:53 <andythenorth> months of work for me 19:33:03 <drush> then it will be in effect for 6 months and for that time, it has to be redrafted to suit to constitution 19:33:09 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I meant to say: I know, I am in the same ship :P 19:33:16 <andythenorth> then 1 day before the deadline, the ICO (enforcement agency) changed their interpretation of the law 19:33:21 <andythenorth> to allow implied consent 19:33:26 <andythenorth> much wasted time incurred 19:33:36 <andythenorth> probably good for consumers on balance 19:33:45 <andythenorth> they love all the popup cookie notifications 19:33:46 <RichyB> Meh. 19:33:49 <andythenorth> it gives them something to read 19:33:51 <TrueBrain> OPTA, the organization giving the penalties for these kinds of laws, said they would also send one to gov sites ... I cannot wait for the results :P 19:33:54 <drush> which means pretty much that any unconstitutional law can work for 6 months with a constitution that disproves it 19:34:03 <TrueBrain> the popups are HORRIBLE ..... it annoys the user ..... 19:34:11 <RichyB> On the one hand it's a total shit, OTOH just *removing* things that depend on cookies >90% of the time makes sites faster. 19:34:30 <andythenorth> and stops giving personal data to questionable people 19:34:31 <TrueBrain> RichyB: I do agree that the amount of cookies is insane 19:34:43 <TrueBrain> if I visit one site to order something, the next 4 days I see ads of that company on ALL the other sites 19:34:46 <TrueBrain> it is fucking annoying :P 19:34:48 <andythenorth> I like that 19:34:54 <andythenorth> targeted ads are better 19:34:56 <TrueBrain> but if this is really the solution for that .... 19:34:57 <RichyB> It's not even the cookies themselves, it's the things that people do with them. 19:35:04 <Dr_Tan> I love hearing about adds on the internet 19:35:07 <TrueBrain> btw, ever removed ads in Facebook? 19:35:08 <Dr_Tan> I almost never see them 19:35:10 <Dr_Tan> :p 19:35:13 <Dr_Tan> adblock lol 19:35:13 <TrueBrain> it is funny as fuck, as they ask why you removed them 19:35:26 <TrueBrain> I had such a good hour removing many of them with silly reasons 19:35:30 <RichyB> Take Google Analytics off everything and then suddenly websites load ~50ms faster, which you feel when it's *every* pageload. 19:35:30 <TrueBrain> I laughed my ass off :P 19:35:59 <TrueBrain> RichyB: fun fact, the dutch gov said: it is okay for us to use NedStat (like Google Ana), as we only use it to see how we can improve our website 19:36:06 <TrueBrain> not realising NedStat uses all that information to sell ads 19:36:29 <TrueBrain> which is horrible if you think about it: when you visit your local gov store on the web 19:36:35 <TrueBrain> some 3rd party (USA company!) knows about it 19:36:42 <RichyB> Yep. 19:36:44 <TrueBrain> that can never be the intend of any gov site 19:37:06 <TrueBrain> but, as with every country, nobody up there has any real IT knowledge 19:37:08 <TrueBrain> so they don't care 19:37:28 <TrueBrain> who cares if you compromise the personal visiting behavoir of your whole country, you know how to improve your website! 19:37:42 <drush> of course TrueBrain 19:37:43 <RichyB> Why does the "configure" script not support --prefix? :( 19:37:50 <TrueBrain> it should 19:37:53 <drush> because using javascript and javascript only is a huge improvement 19:38:00 <TrueBrain> RichyB: how you define 'not support'? 19:38:17 <drush> TrueBrain that's exactly the issue I had 19:38:26 <RichyB> TrueBrain: ./configure --prefix=$HOME/builds/openttd # threw an error message at me. 19:38:30 <TrueBrain> --prefix-dir=dir specifies the prefix for all installed 19:38:31 <TrueBrain> files [/usr/local] 19:38:33 <TrueBrain> lolz 19:38:45 <RichyB> Pfft. 19:38:52 <drush> TrueBrain I did --prefix-dir=$PS3DEV/portlibs/ppu 19:39:00 <TrueBrain> why the hell would it be prefix-dir? Lol 19:39:15 <drush> and I still get stuff like "-I/usr/local/SDL" in my makefiles 19:39:18 <TrueBrain> I guess it was done to be the same for all entries 19:40:16 <drush> well, anyhow, it doesn't work as intended 19:40:42 <TrueBrain> drush: that something doesn't work how you think it should work, doesn't make it wrong; prefix-dir does work as intended 19:40:56 <drush> then what is intended TrueBrain? 19:41:12 <TrueBrain> I suggest you try google for that 19:41:44 <drush> I thought that setting a prefix dir makes the compiler look for libs and include files in $PREFIX/lib and $PREFIX/include respectively 19:42:01 <TrueBrain> RichyB: that 'issue' dates back to 2006, so I guess nobody every thought about it :) 19:42:04 <drush> and not completely ignore a prefix directory as I have found out 19:42:09 <TrueBrain> drush: you thought wrong 19:42:49 <TrueBrain> the worst part, my copy/paste of our --help tells you why you are wrong 19:42:59 *** Dr_Tan [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:04 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B039.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:43:28 <TrueBrain> RichyB: it also tells you how often we, devs, use it :P 19:44:17 <drush> AH 19:44:22 <drush> now I get it 19:44:34 <TrueBrain> RichyB: also mind we don't have a build-dir 19:44:40 <drush> --prefix-dir is for installing the compiled output 19:45:27 <TrueBrain> (as in, it is the directory you run ./configure from :P) 19:45:27 <drush> or else I'm wrong again 19:46:08 <Alberth> how did mmo dune fail, on what to do after leaving? 19:46:48 <TrueBrain> the problem is, wha thappens when you log off from it 19:47:05 <TrueBrain> I could wipe your base every time because I am in another TZ 19:47:33 <Alberth> the simplest would be to stop everything until everybody is online again 19:47:42 <andythenorth> FLHerne / others: any more feedback on FISH? I have to stick more ships in, trying to figure out the set balance 19:47:44 <TrueBrain> everyone? Or the parties involved? 19:47:44 <drush> TrueBrain that is not good 19:47:45 <Alberth> or at least save the point :) 19:48:10 <TrueBrain> we reviewed many solutions, and it is not really trivial .. never found a clean solution :( 19:48:21 <TrueBrain> either you can never attack eachother 19:48:28 <TrueBrain> or .... it becomes turn-based? 19:48:28 <RichyB> Some of the C&C games had massive multiplayer. 19:48:32 <Alberth> I can imagine itis not trivial 19:48:33 <drush> if I would run OTTD's configure from $PS3DEV/portlibs/ppu it would scatter config files all over the place 19:48:35 <RichyB> It was effectively turn-based. 19:48:38 <TrueBrain> RichyB: defined 'massive' ;) 19:48:42 <drush> the place from which it ran 19:48:45 <RichyB> World map, countries. 19:48:50 <RichyB> Running 24/7. 19:49:09 <andythenorth> ha 19:49:11 <TrueBrain> well, maybe I should define what I would consider an MMO RTS 19:49:13 <andythenorth> turn based OTTD 19:49:14 <TrueBrain> everyone on one map 19:49:23 <andythenorth> one click per turn 19:49:25 <TrueBrain> not, how some solve it, by allowing you to start matches in a shared world 19:49:28 <TrueBrain> that is cheating :P 19:49:34 <RichyB> You'd log in at any random time of day, click a contested territory. Game starts when at least one player from both factions joins in, and whoever wins that ordinary, finite-sized C&C game takes the territory for their side. 19:49:34 <Alberth> you'd expect that people playing together would be able to make an appointment to be at a computer at the same time 19:49:39 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I haven't run a ship-centric game since I started fiddling with FISH 2ish, sorry :P 19:49:49 <TrueBrain> RichyB: yeah, that is exactly what I don't mean ;) :D 19:49:58 <FLHerne> I tried to, but the autorefit broke and I gave up :-( 19:50:02 <andythenorth> broke? 19:50:09 <FLHerne> (On everything, not just shps) 19:50:14 <TrueBrain> Alberth: I played a lot of EVE, which has similar problems, and it shows that is not really humanlly possible; but it is in the direction that a solution should be .. 19:50:24 <FLHerne> Stupid patched versions... :P 19:50:28 <RichyB> Well. It's like instanced dungeons, isn't it? It *is* clean, it's just not really a very good MMO. 19:50:32 <TrueBrain> Alberth: as that gives the issue: really large groups kill EVERYONE :P 19:50:43 <TrueBrain> RichyB: yeah, I don't consider those things MMOs ;) 19:50:46 <TrueBrain> it is a valid concept 19:50:57 <Alberth> TrueBrain: big money buys everything too 19:50:59 <TrueBrain> but not what I would consider MMO .. it is more ... a lounge you go into to find people to play against ;) 19:51:04 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Started autorefitting everything to totally random cargos :-( 19:51:19 <TrueBrain> RichyB: a good example of that is PlanetSide; it is a lovely game, no bad words about the game 19:51:32 <TrueBrain> it is very close to an MMO, but .. they are just seperate servers 19:51:35 <TrueBrain> with big maps 19:51:53 <TrueBrain> single-shard, I guess I should add to MMO :P 19:51:55 <TrueBrain> ssMMO? :P 19:52:08 <TrueBrain> Alberth: very true; but those things are solvable :) 19:52:17 <RichyB> TrueBrain: ssnoMMO :) 19:52:34 <TrueBrain> RichyB: as if you allow those things, it indeed becomes easy :) 19:52:39 <RichyB> EVE is Single-Shard, No-instancing, Massively Multiplayer Online. 19:52:49 <TrueBrain> what I would love to build, is that you start building your base, which you can build on and on for weeks at end 19:52:55 <TrueBrain> till someone comes along and wipes you of the face of the earth 19:52:56 <TrueBrain> P 19:52:58 <RichyB> Also "SSNOMMO" almost sounds good as an acronym. 19:53:18 <RichyB> Perhaps you could swing it like DayZ? 19:53:34 <TrueBrain> DayZ? 19:53:43 * andythenorth is tempted to learn how to play DF 19:53:50 <RichyB> HUGE map, totally infeasible huge map, and you can protect your bases from attack while you're away by hoping that no one finds them. 19:54:07 <andythenorth> oh 19:54:09 <TrueBrain> and what id you do want to fight? 19:54:21 <TrueBrain> id = if 19:54:23 <andythenorth> kind of like how we play "not getting wiped out by aggressive alien species"? 19:54:42 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: we take that gamble every time we wake up :P 19:54:43 <RichyB> That's a separate problem! :) 19:54:48 <Alberth> TrueBrain: hmm, what if you allow the same number of units as the person you attack? 19:54:59 <TrueBrain> Alberth: instances? 19:55:04 <RichyB> You can find ways around that, like putting down resource nodes that are really sparse, so people are forced to meet at them. 19:55:06 <TrueBrain> I mean, how do you mean: same number of units? 19:55:07 <TrueBrain> battlegrounds? 19:55:24 <andythenorth> or broadcast lots radio signals 19:55:28 <andythenorth> so they find you :P 19:55:37 <andythenorth> like we do 19:55:44 <Alberth> I attack you, you have 5 tanks, I have 100, but I can get only 5 near you 19:56:00 <andythenorth> send out probes with maps on, saying "we are here, this is our tech level" 19:56:03 <TrueBrain> and if I am offline you can't get close, or? 19:56:27 <andythenorth> hmm 19:56:39 <Alberth> any problem with that> 19:56:40 <Alberth> ? 19:56:42 <andythenorth> could you have an ever-expanding horizon whilst not there? 19:56:44 <TrueBrain> http://devs.opendune.org/~truebrain/mmo/ < -several drafts .. might be boring to read, but meh :) 19:56:51 <RichyB> TrueBrain: so say there's players at a density of one every 20 square units, it takes an hour to explore a square unit in enough detail to find a base, and there's one resource node every 200 square units - and you can detect resource nodes from 400 units away. You'll get conflicts at the resource nodes and you'll wipe peoples' bases by following their harvesters. 19:56:54 <TrueBrain> Alberth: not really, just trying to get a feeling for what you mean ;) 19:57:26 <TrueBrain> I worked mostly on how to make a truely infinite map 19:57:29 <TrueBrain> which really never ever ends 19:57:32 <RichyB> Okay, actually relevant question: just built r24463, it asked me to download openGFX and I did 19:57:54 <RichyB> I now get the message "the currently used base graphics set is missing a number of sprites. Please update the base graphisc set". 19:57:59 <Alberth> I was solving the "big army sweeping over your few troops" problem :) 19:58:03 <andythenorth> relevant questions are off-topic :P 19:58:18 <Alberth> RichyB: that's ok 19:58:24 <RichyB> Annnnd I downloaded opengfx 0.4.4 using the in-game thingummy where the first prompt comes up. 19:58:29 <TrueBrain> RichyB: for HEAD you often need a non-stable OpenGFX to have all the stuff 19:58:36 <RichyB> Good, thank you. 19:58:44 <TrueBrain> for obvious reasons, an unstable release needs an unstable OpenGFX :P 19:58:57 <Alberth> RichyB: there are a few sprites missing , but nothing serious 19:58:58 <TrueBrain> Alberth: yeah, that is where I got stuck after that :) 19:59:04 <TrueBrain> I was just pointing out what those drafts are about :P 19:59:24 <Alberth> I clicked at it too, but did not read it yet :p 19:59:54 <TrueBrain> I opened the 'old' folders too, as I assume none of you will steal the idea and make milions, without giving me a few pennies :P 20:00:04 *** Nat_aS [~Shep@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 20:00:24 <Alberth> only the peopl e reading the logs will :) 20:00:25 <TrueBrain> you might like how unit design and skill progression works ;) 20:00:29 <RichyB> Ahahahah. 20:00:54 <RichyB> "Replaces passenger production in oil rigs by eels... Eels are transportable by hovercraft." 20:00:57 <TrueBrain> but I guess that might work Alberth .. 20:01:09 <NGC3982> Does anyone know if the FIRS Lime Quarry is supposed to be animated? 20:01:35 <TrueBrain> (the idea of battling, that is) 20:01:43 <TrueBrain> not sure how to keep that realistic, but that might be workable 20:01:47 <RichyB> andythenorth should. 20:02:07 <andythenorth> NGC3982: didn't you asks that already? 20:02:10 <andythenorth> -s 20:02:12 <TrueBrain> as, how are units kept out? A shield? Some energy balance? 20:02:15 <TrueBrain> hmm, that might just work :) 20:02:29 <TrueBrain> that in a given area there can only be an equal amount of energy 20:02:32 <andythenorth> NGC3982: which is the Lime Quarry? 20:02:45 <TrueBrain> so if there are 5 infantree, you cannot come with a huge tank 20:02:48 <TrueBrain> hmm, interesting ...... 20:02:51 <TrueBrain> tnx Alberth ;) 20:04:11 <Alberth> one problem might be that you kill one of my tanks, and I may bring in a new one 20:04:34 <TrueBrain> make the energy balance disapate over time 20:04:47 <TrueBrain> for example, the destroyed tank stays there, destroyed 20:04:50 <TrueBrain> and over the next .. week 20:04:53 <TrueBrain> it gets removed 20:04:56 <TrueBrain> piece by piece 20:06:17 <Alberth> another problem, you log off to rescue your units :p 20:06:33 <TrueBrain> timer 20:06:39 <TrueBrain> many games have that as solution already, works rather well 20:06:47 <TrueBrain> if you are agressed, you can logoff, but your stuff remains on the field 20:06:54 <TrueBrain> for the next, say, 5 minutes 20:07:10 <TrueBrain> EVE does that wonderful; if I shoot at you, and you log off, you stay where you are, and I just kill you 20:07:16 <Alberth> ok, that's enough to slaughter your tanks :) 20:07:17 <TrueBrain> 'agression timer' ;) 20:08:08 *** Chrill [Chrill@c83-253-89-11.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 20:11:29 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable133.8-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 20:11:43 <drac_boy> hi 20:12:48 <drac_boy> any of you know of any swiss-english service online? I only know of one popular one for deutsch-english 20:13:30 <Chrill> service for what? 20:13:33 <Rubidium> "Ammler"? 20:13:52 <drac_boy> chrill..language? :) 20:13:57 <Chrill> translator? 20:14:05 <Chrill> try Google Translate, it is good 20:14:11 <Chrill> but its hardly OpenTTD :P 20:18:53 *** Dozzer [Ciprian@dyn-89.136.61.9.tm.upcnet.ro] has quit [] 20:23:31 <Alberth> Chrill: we hardly speak of openttd here, as everybody already knows about it :p 20:23:49 <Chrill> hah 20:23:53 * andythenorth complains about openttd here 20:23:54 <Chrill> you all speak of stuff way over my head :p 20:24:00 <andythenorth> but nobody pays attention to andythenorth 20:24:09 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: where's your buy menu patch? 20:24:13 <andythenorth> I could test it now 20:25:25 <drac_boy> chrill I do have one thing that is ottd....the 'chrill patch' :) 20:25:31 <drac_boy> heh 20:27:58 * andythenorth wonders how to make rivers 2 tiles wide between sea level and first height change 20:28:47 <Chrill> thats chill patch 20:28:48 <Chrill> not chrill :( 20:29:25 <andythenorth> hmm 20:29:39 <andythenorth> so the original graphics had rivers in the 'choose temperate' icon for years 20:29:49 <andythenorth> but rivers didn't make it into game until last year :D 20:30:10 <andythenorth> also tropic is missing dead cows 20:30:47 <andythenorth> hmm 20:30:55 <Alberth> temperate is missing living ones :) 20:30:55 <andythenorth> how big can new objects be? 20:31:02 <drac_boy> oh sorry chrill...kinda mixed up due to similar spelling 20:31:07 <andythenorth> Alberth: I have cows :P 20:31:12 <TrueBrain> Alberth: I hate you, now I want to write a server to test the idea :P 20:31:19 <andythenorth> can I do a 9x9 tile new object? 20:31:22 <drac_boy> heh 20:31:24 <Alberth> TrueBrain: sorry 20:31:27 <andythenorth> thinking that tropic needs more mountains 20:31:33 <andythenorth> bigger mountains 20:31:37 <andythenorth> that can't be routed over 20:31:39 <TrueBrain> Alberth: don't be :P 20:31:52 <TrueBrain> well, I first need to fix the mirror stuff, so .. I will have to wait :) 20:32:08 <drac_boy> andythenorth there was little in africa or australia that didn't mind going straight over the mountain 20:33:13 <drush> I'm trying to make configure script look for libs and includes in another directory 20:33:36 <drush> we've already established that I can't do it with prefix 20:33:50 <drush> so I tried setting LDFLAGS 20:34:15 <drush> that still doesn't make the deal 20:34:33 * drush feels stupid 20:36:10 <Alberth> what has a loader to do with libs and include paths? 20:36:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B039.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:50 <drac_boy> still finding that a little confusing.. chrill or chill ... meh! 20:38:56 <drac_boy> :-s 20:39:44 * andythenorth ponders 20:39:52 <andythenorth> is 800x500 optimum resolution for ottd? 20:40:04 <drac_boy> andythenorth I would say yeah 20:40:41 <Alberth> depends on your screen size? (some dpi would be more useful perhaps) 20:41:03 <andythenorth> 1280x800 native 20:41:18 <drac_boy> 1280x1024 and 1440x900 here atm 20:41:19 <andythenorth> this panel is fuzzy at 800x500, the fonts are blurred 20:41:26 <andythenorth> but the pixels look ok otherwise 20:41:34 <drac_boy> andythenorth don't use fullscreen mode? :p 20:41:35 <Alberth> buy an analogue monitor 20:41:50 <andythenorth> drac_boy I want the game to be lower rez 20:41:51 <Chrill> drac_boy: blame him, not me. I've carried this nickname on the forum since 2006 :P 20:42:05 <drac_boy> chrill heh heh ooook :) 20:42:06 <andythenorth> lower rez = easier to use the gui 20:42:39 <drac_boy> chrill seriously tho I really like some of the features in the chill patch that its a bit sad that only one server once in a while actually runs it :/ oh well :) 20:42:58 <andythenorth> someone needs to make a decent industry set 20:43:01 <andythenorth> I'm bored of PBI 20:43:06 <andythenorth> I'm bored of default industries 20:43:15 <drac_boy> andythenorth get on FIRS or ECS already 20:43:20 <andythenorth> FIRS sucks 20:43:26 <andythenorth> ECS is too complicated 20:43:30 <Alberth> ECS sucks too :) 20:43:42 <drac_boy> andythenorth just don't download all of it..simple? 20:44:10 <drac_boy> I've never ever had the chemical or construction grfs at all anyway 20:44:54 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-21-32.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:44:56 <andythenorth> how can FIRS suck less? 20:45:16 <andythenorth> maybe I can make it simpler 20:45:27 <drac_boy> by more trains supporting it? otherwise I don't see anything needed to do with it 20:45:33 <andythenorth> it's boring 20:45:49 <drac_boy> then you're clearly not looking at the scenary :) 20:46:12 <Chrill> hey andythenorth, you did FISH right? 20:46:15 <andythenorth> yarp 20:46:23 <Chrill> well then 20:46:34 <Chrill> I love that there is such a well-developed set for such an underestimated type of transport 20:46:41 <Chrill> one of the very best sets overall ingame! 20:46:43 <Chrill> thankoo 20:46:47 <andythenorth> np :) 20:46:49 <andythenorth> tried FISH 2? 20:47:15 * drac_boy actually uses newship.grf myself... 20:47:20 <Chrill> unless Fish 2 is on bananas, no 20:47:35 <Chrill> if it is, then yes :P 20:47:37 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/fish/nightlies/ 20:48:13 <RichyB> dAMMIT 20:48:19 <RichyB> I forgot how much fun this game is. 20:48:23 <RichyB> andythenorth: I blame you. 20:48:25 <andythenorth> that's your weekend gone :P 20:48:31 <andythenorth> coming in Monday? :P 20:48:44 <andythenorth> it's more fun when you patch it :P 20:50:06 <andythenorth> hmm 20:50:15 <andythenorth> maybe I should adjust FIRS to have one obvious money maker 20:50:22 <andythenorth> currently there's no 'start here' 20:50:55 <RichyB> No obvious money-maker? Did you remove coal or something? :P 20:51:11 <andythenorth> there are more chains, more evenly balanced 20:51:25 <andythenorth> it imposes decision paralysis due to abundance of choice :P 20:51:51 <andythenorth> I should implement economies as a parameter option, each of which is weighted towards one chain 20:52:08 <andythenorth> but the CPP used to build the set is too complicated 20:52:22 <drac_boy> as long as you split it off from the normal FIRS or use a parameter mode :) 20:52:23 <andythenorth> and I haven't got around to doing a python / chameleon conversion yet :P 20:52:52 <Alberth> drac_boy: FIRS has economies planned for ages already :) 20:53:03 <andythenorth> but nobody capable of coding them :) 20:53:33 <drac_boy> alberth point was the 'one obvious' and 'abundance' which I kinda disagreed with 20:53:40 <drac_boy> :p 20:53:48 <andythenorth> where do you start then drac_boy ? 20:54:31 <drac_boy> andythenorth depends on the randomized map but pretty much a good chance its a 3+ stations mixed freight service whether theres any coach on tail or not 20:54:57 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.77.203] has joined #openttd 20:54:57 <Alberth> wood or coal or so 20:55:04 <andythenorth> I think one answer to enjoying my game is "Stop using UKRS 2" 20:55:18 <andythenorth> hmm there's a FIRS compatible canset release, maybe I get that 20:55:22 <Alberth> I didn't even start :) 20:55:27 <andythenorth> it's a shame 20:55:36 <andythenorth> pikka's sets are so well balanced 20:55:39 <drac_boy> http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/shortlines/MRR103mixed.jpg that shows you an usa version of a common light diesel mixed train 20:55:52 <drac_boy> its a bit hard to see but that indeed is one lone coach on rear 20:55:53 <andythenorth> GE 70 ton 20:56:09 <drac_boy> europe had their own similar versions too 20:56:48 <drac_boy> not counting that RhB still more or less has 'mixed trains' in american sense ... the attachment of varying freights to passenger trains .. even the new Allegro as well 20:57:39 <andythenorth> yay 20:57:41 <andythenorth> canrail 1.1 20:57:52 * andythenorth has a play 20:58:31 <Alberth> arctic, obviously :p 20:58:39 <andythenorth> needs a truck set :P 20:58:42 <andythenorth> mine sucks 20:59:00 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.72.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:59:06 <Alberth> you know the weak points too wel :p 20:59:17 <andythenorth> it's rather obviously not done :D 21:00:00 <drac_boy> older photo but just in case anyone was wondering about the RhB remark http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7116/7642058696_1154c0dfa0_z.jpg 21:00:16 <drac_boy> mostly lumber but probably some parcel goods too 21:00:24 <andythenorth> I am about to be annoyed by the industry generation algorithm 21:01:00 <drac_boy> andythenorth I always did thought the whole gamecreate randomizer in both patch and ottd needed a good overhaul but I don't know how much of that is actually doneable :/ 21:01:38 <drac_boy> especially when it likes to dump a sawmill only few tiles away from the forest .. even although it rarely ever does that with the original industries stragnely 21:01:48 <drac_boy> strangely* 21:02:42 <andythenorth> FIRS shouldn't be doing it 21:02:46 <andythenorth> except when I tell it to 21:03:00 <andythenorth> it has code to enforce gaps between certain industry types 21:04:57 <drac_boy> mm 21:09:35 <andythenorth> FIRS is so stupid 21:09:44 <andythenorth> where do I take milk before 1892? 21:09:48 <andythenorth> there's no fricking destination 21:10:00 <drac_boy> just like real milk ... straight to town 21:10:07 <andythenorth> has anyone even play tested this grf? 21:10:13 <drac_boy> ironically railroad tycoon follows the same behaviour too 21:10:35 <andythenorth> so I just don't transport milk before 1892? 21:10:39 <andythenorth> and this is good because...? 21:11:14 <drac_boy> you do transpot it...just to towns instead 21:11:21 <andythenorth> no accepting industry 21:11:30 * andythenorth was all set to play a game with milk 21:11:33 <andythenorth> in 1870 21:11:46 <andythenorth> meh screw that 21:11:56 <andythenorth> I never get much past map gen these days 21:12:01 <andythenorth> the game is too broken 21:12:29 <andythenorth> I think FIRS really needs a rethink 21:12:33 <FLHerne> andythenorth: 'Markets' should accept fruit+veg, milk, fish etc, with a low acceptance cap 21:12:39 <andythenorth> FIRS is so screwed 21:12:40 <drac_boy> how come I have no problem at all after countless maps? 21:12:56 <drac_boy> (then again its in patch with custom trains almost all the times tho...might be ottd has strange different behaviour) 21:13:05 <FLHerne> andythenorth: The general idea is sound, IMO - played loads of long games with it in different time periods 21:13:07 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-36-54.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:13:27 <FLHerne> It needs some tweaking of specific industries though :P 21:13:28 <andythenorth> the general idea of 'make an industry grf' is sound 21:13:29 <drac_boy> FLHerne nice to see its not just me then. maybe would be fun if two of us play together? :) 21:13:31 <andythenorth> FIRS is broken 21:13:34 <andythenorth> I should just rm it 21:13:45 <FLHerne> Oh, and cargodist for supplies really helps 21:13:51 <andythenorth> no wonder is has < 10% of the bananas downloads that ECS has 21:14:01 <andythenorth> ECS is way more popular 21:14:13 * FLHerne prefers FIRS to ECS, by miles 21:14:27 <drac_boy> FLHerne hmm I've never ever play cargodist at all...did the chill patch ever have it in or not? 21:14:28 <FLHerne> ECS is older and more mature :P 21:14:47 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Yes, but that's years behind trunk at the moment 21:15:22 <Chrill> andythenorth: im liiiking this, especially the concept of speed differences canal vs. river 21:15:27 <FLHerne> I'm using my own patchblob at the moment, but it's insanely unstable :P 21:15:41 <andythenorth> Chrill: good :) Thank frosch for the patch that enabled that 21:16:05 <andythenorth> Chrill: some graphics missing, you'll find several generations of ships look the same 21:16:12 <andythenorth> and some old ships using modern graphics 21:16:26 <andythenorth> you get auto-refit support now too 21:16:45 <drac_boy> FLHerne heh ok 21:16:51 <Chrill> oh I was going to ask about auto-refit 21:16:58 * andythenorth drove away all his FIRS collaborators with moaning :P 21:17:01 <Chrill> also yes some ships look virtually the same, I cant figure out which ones are old or new :P 21:17:32 <RichyB> Heh 21:17:45 <RichyB> Levelled a town by accident, now I can't even build a bus stop in order to make them stop hating me. 21:17:51 <RichyB> Where's the "bribe" button gone anyway? ;D 21:17:53 <andythenorth> build trees 21:18:09 <Alberth> find another town to level :p 21:18:13 <andythenorth> there's a build-tree-bulldoze-tree-build-tree exploit iirc 21:19:06 * andythenorth patches dairies 21:19:12 <andythenorth> screw 1892 21:19:19 <andythenorth> fun for translators :P 21:19:28 <drac_boy> andythenorth you prefer people to not be able to drink processed milk at all? 21:19:28 <andythenorth> I'm going to normalise everything to 1870 21:19:47 <andythenorth> this varying introduction dates thing is one massive fail 21:19:52 <drush> oh dear 21:20:01 <drush> are you guys talking about far away past? 21:20:16 <drac_boy> andythenorth its not, otherwise other games wouldn't had used it with no problem 21:20:23 <drush> I remember that one time I set the starting time to 1410 21:20:27 <andythenorth> other games != this game 21:20:32 <andythenorth> this game has problems 21:20:36 <drac_boy> andythenorth doesn't matter..its still the same industries 21:20:47 <andythenorth> ever seen an aluminium plant get built? 21:20:50 <andythenorth> or a fertiliser plant? 21:20:52 <RichyB> andythenorth: it's not really an exploit if it costs money though, surely? :) 21:20:53 <drac_boy> yeah 21:21:18 <andythenorth> RichyB: there's a minor exploit somewhere in the difference between penalty for bulldoze, and reward for tree planting 21:21:24 <drush> andythenorth are you telling that this game while it allows to go to the past before TTD, should portray the world as it was then? 21:21:43 <andythenorth> drush: I dunno. What's the question? 21:22:03 <drush> andythenorth: you said you went to 1892, back then aluminium wasn't being processed 21:22:14 <andythenorth> who cares 21:22:19 <andythenorth> :) 21:22:30 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22:40 <drush> so would that mean that you want OTTD to not have alluminium by the time it entered industry 21:23:01 <drush> because that sorta makes sense, monorails didn't enter OTTD's world until y2k ingame 21:23:04 <drac_boy> drush basically whats the point of setting it to pre-1950 then if nothing is going to be right 21:23:10 <drac_boy> :) 21:23:19 <andythenorth> I don't follow these arguments :) 21:23:25 <andythenorth> what's the point / question? 21:23:37 <drush> ah nevermind, I can't make it more clear 21:23:57 <andythenorth> FIRS tries to provide accurate intro dates for industry types (adjusted in some cases for gameplay) 21:23:59 <andythenorth> it doesn't work 21:24:03 <andythenorth> it's broken 21:24:17 <drac_boy> andythenorth if its broken then set everything to 1950 and call it "frictious industries" then 21:24:27 <drac_boy> otherwise leave the years alone as they actually were 21:24:32 <andythenorth> or just introduce everything in 1870 21:24:38 <andythenorth> because I like to start games in 1870 21:24:41 <drac_boy> still same thing 21:25:14 <andythenorth> ok so I start my game in 1870 21:25:26 <andythenorth> FIRS doesn't introduce dairies until 1892 21:25:31 <andythenorth> but none will get built 21:25:45 <andythenorth> so I have no dairies in my game 21:26:01 <andythenorth> and I know this in advance, because I've played enough FIRS games to realise it 21:26:18 <andythenorth> so I see all the farms, and realise my map is pointless 21:26:23 <andythenorth> and I turn off the game 21:26:40 <andythenorth> FIRS is dumb and broken 21:26:51 <andythenorth> it's a big bag of disappointing fail 21:26:53 <andythenorth> with nice graphics 21:27:00 <andythenorth> that's why 10x as many people play ECS 21:27:07 <andythenorth> it's ugly as sin, but they like the gameplay 21:27:09 <drac_boy> you clearly can't think then 21:27:53 <andythenorth> like quite a few newgrf things, the "industry can't be built before certain date" is a misfeature 21:28:00 <andythenorth> the game doesn't really work with it 21:30:44 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 21:32:42 <FLHerne> andythenorth: You can't mess up the intro dates :-( . You justed fixed that for FISH 21:33:05 <andythenorth> vehicles are completely different 21:33:15 <andythenorth> industry type introduction dates are broken 21:33:17 <andythenorth> they don't work 21:33:29 <FLHerne> andythenorth: No. I don't want to look at plastics plants or whatever in 1870 21:33:41 <andythenorth> but you don't get to look at one in 1850 either 21:33:42 <drac_boy> agreed FLHerne 21:33:49 <andythenorth> *1950 21:33:49 <FLHerne> If I want some later, I'll have enough money to fund them 21:34:04 <andythenorth> funding is broken 21:34:15 <FLHerne> That then fixes the AAARGH WHAT DO I SPEND ALL THIS MONEY ON problem :P 21:34:20 <andythenorth> the introduction dates also make game balance impossible 21:34:24 <FLHerne> andythenorth: How so? 21:34:30 <FLHerne> (For both) 21:34:35 <andythenorth> because the game tries to build a fixed number of industries per map 21:34:45 <andythenorth> so depending on what types are available, the mix can be very different 21:35:05 <andythenorth> so balancing them reasonably is impossible 21:35:20 <andythenorth> pre 1900 you can have an insane number of farms 21:35:29 <andythenorth> start later and you hardly get any farms on some maps 21:35:38 <andythenorth> it's a fricking mess 21:35:51 <andythenorth> I am so bored of trying to balance all this crap 21:35:53 <drac_boy> FLHerne the funny thing is even if I start in 1920 with custom trains&industries (earliest I can atm) I sometimes never really have much money 40 year later .. and some trains still carrying very old wagons with almost no value 21:36:10 <drac_boy> guess its all in the gameplay styles 21:36:10 <andythenorth> TTD doesn't have this problem 21:36:19 <andythenorth> TTD starts in 1950, problem solved 21:36:35 <drac_boy> who said so? 21:36:42 <FLHerne> andythenorth: The varying industry distributions are good :-) 21:36:47 <FLHerne> Adds interest :P 21:37:00 <andythenorth> not when trying to release the set 21:37:00 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 21:38:20 * Alberth agrees with andy 21:38:42 * FLHerne disagrees :P 21:38:50 <andythenorth> FLHerne: take over maintaining FIRS then 21:38:53 <andythenorth> I'm sick of it tbh 21:39:05 <andythenorth> between the code base that I don't understand, and the problems I can't solve 21:39:25 <andythenorth> just fork the repo 21:39:44 <FLHerne> Not just yet :P Perhaps when I can get my simple objectgrf release-able it might be imaginable... 21:39:53 <andythenorth> FIRS is too big and too broken 21:39:57 <andythenorth> and too complicated 21:40:06 <andythenorth> and has a codebase that nobody has time to work on 21:40:06 <FLHerne> andythenorth: It's a nice set, but needs more complexity :P 21:40:19 <FLHerne> Complexity (for the user) is good :-) 21:40:27 <FLHerne> As I said, makes it more fun 21:40:58 <andythenorth> the only redeeming feature of FIRS is that it has nice graphics 21:40:59 * drac_boy would be too busy with my own cargo grf addendum to help FLHerne either way :-s 21:41:08 <andythenorth> somebody should take the FIRS graphics and make a decent set 21:41:13 <FLHerne> If people want 'simple', they can use the default ones, or OGFX, or part of ECS, or TaI (if it's ever done) or whatever :P 21:41:46 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I considered refiddling some of your graphics and making a FIRS addon :P 21:42:08 <FLHerne> Not till I get the objects done, anyway :P 21:42:09 <andythenorth> what would it do? 21:42:35 <NGC3982> andythenorth: No, that was the Iron Ore Mine. 21:44:41 <andythenorth> what was the iron ore mine? 21:45:12 <NGC3982> andythenorth: Last time, you reminded me of the full detail-option that made my FIRS Iron Ore Mines to not animate. 21:45:29 <andythenorth> what is the Lime Mine? 21:45:44 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Add a market, guest house (small hotel) , power station. Replace 'recyclables' with 'waste', can be burnt (with coal) in incinerators. 21:45:58 <andythenorth> try it 21:46:27 <andythenorth> most of those have been removed from FIRS 21:46:28 <NGC3982> andythenorth: http://i.imgur.com/Ntkdc.png 21:46:34 <FLHerne> Add Food Processing Plant again, takes metal, fish and livestock. Other stuff, I forgot :P 21:47:05 <andythenorth> NGC3982: that's a very big industry :o 21:47:08 <FLHerne> andythenorth: In that case, why did you remove them? 21:47:32 <andythenorth> market - same function as the general store, but spams the minimap list 21:47:39 <FLHerne> Also, waste should go to landfills of course :P 21:47:42 <andythenorth> guest house - not tried 21:47:45 <NGC3982> andythenorth: :D 21:47:48 <andythenorth> power station - pointless 21:48:21 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I moaned when you multiplied the cost of hotels by 30-odd times, remember? :P 21:48:22 <andythenorth> waste -> incinerators; might work. The old waste chain was insanely boring 21:48:36 <FLHerne> Incinerator produces chemicals :P 21:48:40 <drac_boy> FLHerne funny thing is I thought about town outputs other than mail ... and am still tempting to perhaps try figure out a no-sensivity low-value recycle cargo type 21:48:50 <FLHerne> Possibly :P 21:49:06 <drac_boy> might not do it tho..and beside trains comes first then the matching industry later so we'll have to see 21:49:10 <andythenorth> the old waste chain tried to collect from a lot of town sources 21:49:12 <andythenorth> so.....dull 21:49:31 <andythenorth> collect from a dump, go to an incinerator could work 21:49:35 <drac_boy> the reason its only recycle alone is because well lets just say its sorta my 'a perfect yet reasonable world' kind of thinking .. there'll be almost no trash at all 21:49:54 <andythenorth> NGC3982: you want me to animate that industry? 21:50:30 <NGC3982> andythenorth: No, of course not. 21:50:45 <NGC3982> andythenorth: I was just wondering if there already was animation that i missed out on. 21:50:47 <FLHerne> Basically, add another acceptor for what's now recyclables 21:50:48 <NGC3982> :) 21:51:02 <andythenorth> NGC3982: I don't know :) 21:51:03 <FLHerne> I don't like cargos which can only go to one industry :P 21:51:23 <andythenorth> FLHerne: you see the big stacks on the recycling plant? 21:51:44 <andythenorth> or did I remove them? 21:52:16 <andythenorth> no they're still there 21:52:50 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Not sure. Haven't tried that so much. I tend to finish games at the present, so not much time to use that chain. 21:53:00 <andythenorth> I should introduce it in 1870 21:53:02 <andythenorth> then you'd see it :P 21:53:11 <FLHerne> Might be nice if you moved that forward a decade. Not 1870 though... 21:53:27 <andythenorth> anyway it's drawn as a recycling plant / incinerator 21:53:42 * drac_boy still has to think what to actually do for 2010-2050 yet 21:53:50 <drac_boy> but one thing at a time tho so guess we'll eventually see 21:53:58 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Split them then. More industry types? 21:54:17 <FLHerne> And why didn't you make the town industries town industries 21:54:22 <andythenorth> ? 21:54:33 <FLHerne> Sorry, add a ? there :P 21:54:46 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-154-36-54.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88.2 [Firefox 15.0/20120731150526]] 21:54:48 <FLHerne> Actually, that still makes no sense :o 21:54:55 <andythenorth> not really no :P 21:55:20 * FLHerne thinks through the phrasing more carefully :P 21:56:12 <andythenorth> think faster :P 21:56:18 * andythenorth is going to sleep any moment ;) 21:56:20 <FLHerne> Why didn't you make the grocers/hardwares/recycling etc town buildings, rather than industries? It would be neater :P 21:56:31 <andythenorth> because it doesn't work very well 21:56:36 <andythenorth> it conflicts with house sets 21:56:42 <andythenorth> it means that you can't fund them 21:57:01 <andythenorth> it means that they don't show up in the industry chain viewer 21:57:05 <andythenorth> nor on the minimap 21:57:09 <FLHerne> There are always many more than required anyway :P 21:57:27 <FLHerne> And as you pointed out, that map's cluttered already :P 21:57:36 <drac_boy> FLHerne theres one single town building in my list so far ... input mail:1/4 food:1/1 goods:1/1 .. output mail:1/4, recycle:1/4 21:57:40 <andythenorth> it means your station acceptance would flap 21:57:44 <andythenorth> as towns rebuild houses 21:57:49 <drac_boy> no passenger yeah .. no need to with being in middle of a town anyway 21:58:05 <FLHerne> Dunno about the set conflict - what happens then? 21:58:28 <andythenorth> who knows 21:58:33 <andythenorth> nobody wanted to find out 21:58:44 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Acceptance not a problem. Cargodist and truck-route distribution :P 21:58:58 <drac_boy> FLHerne how often do you play with cargodist btw? 21:59:02 <andythenorth> how is disappearing destinations not a problem? 21:59:03 <FLHerne> Same as mail, ish 21:59:17 <andythenorth> co-op style players hate disappearing destinations 21:59:24 <andythenorth> it ruins the route optimisation 21:59:25 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Always. Depends how often I can get time to play OTTD :P 21:59:34 <andythenorth> FIRS is optimised for co-op style play 21:59:55 <drac_boy> FLHerne heh well I never ever tried it much before but I'm wondering...can you like drop off some cargo at one place and rest at second place .. or the mechanisms is still too weak for that? 22:00:01 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Circular truck routes, calling at many stations in a town. Cargo likely to be accepted somewhere :P 22:00:14 <andythenorth> doesn't work for co-op play 22:00:18 <FLHerne> drac_boy: You can. It's great for supplies :P 22:00:23 <andythenorth> i.e. massive route building 22:00:48 <FLHerne> andythenorth: No, you just add distribution networks at the end of your massive route 22:00:55 <andythenorth> maybe 22:01:01 <FLHerne> I know, I'm a massive-route style player :P 22:01:03 <drac_boy> FLHerne hmm it might make my gameplay style more interesting when the grain is not all unloaded at the first interimidate station :) 22:01:03 <andythenorth> I don't play co-op style, so I don't know :P 22:01:37 <andythenorth> anyway, feel free to take FIRS graphics and start a new set 22:01:39 <andythenorth> it's GPL 22:01:48 <FLHerne> Big train arrives. Transfers into a million trucks/ships/trams/whatever. Gets delivered :P 22:01:50 <drac_boy> FLHerne I'm going to guess you always run long solid single-cargo trains only or am I wrong? 22:02:07 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Autorefit fixes that one. 22:02:15 <drac_boy> FLHerne but is it a yes or no? :) 22:02:27 <FLHerne> Now I can run long solid lots-of-similar-cargos trains :-) 22:02:59 <andythenorth> poll: preferred start date? 22:03:01 <FLHerne> i.e. I now have an Iron Ore/Sand/Stone/Coal/Clay run :P 22:03:21 <drac_boy> FLHerne guess thats somewhat a no then ... second question: multiply parallel tracks with heavy amount of signals or not? 22:03:28 <andythenorth> ach nvm 22:03:28 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Either 1880, 1920 or 1970, depending on available time. 22:03:34 <drac_boy> andythenorth 1920 as always for me but mm :) 22:03:36 *** Alberth [~hat3@2001:980:272e:1:21a:92ff:fe55:fc8d] has left #openttd [] 22:03:52 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Preferred finish date: 2012 :P 22:04:00 <FLHerne> Normally a 1920 start 22:04:25 <drac_boy> so FLHerne how about my question above :p 22:04:39 * andythenorth -> bed 22:04:40 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 22:04:48 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Breakdowns off, so normally I get by with a quad-track line. Fast pax on the inners, freight on the outers. 4-is signal spacing 22:05:20 <FLHerne> That's the mains, I like single-track branches to ~60 person towns too :-) 22:05:33 <FLHerne> Again, Cargodist makes those much more practical 22:05:47 <drac_boy> FLHerne heh well ... the two of us could play a chill+cargodist map but I'm a bit doubtful about us being able to exactly share traffic due to very different track laying methods :) 22:06:05 <FLHerne> drac_boy: How do yours work? :-) 22:06:25 <FLHerne> I've got a lot of mine on my screenshot thread, actually :P 22:07:37 <drac_boy> FLHerne well to put it one way...take a paper map (or aka the overhead map dialog ingame I guess) .. and look close ... you'll see that theres just like copious thin doodles all over the place .. even over water or through the mountain 22:08:10 <drac_boy> I never exactly really have anything that can be defined as "high quality mainline" at times in some games after all 22:08:42 <FLHerne> drac_boy: Interesting. I normally like to go over/round hills, shortest possible bridges :P 22:09:49 <drac_boy> FLHerne well when the industries are up there or the land is rolling a lot that any idea of "low-grade route" would mean lots of blastings .... guess what? you'll find my line literally going straight up then ... don't have enough traffic to afford the tnt crews :) 22:10:13 <drac_boy> get the idea? 22:10:53 <FLHerne> I literally built a line straight up the side of a mountain once, I get the idea :P 22:11:59 <FLHerne> This is the bottom: http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=157003 22:14:02 <FLHerne> Perhaps this should go to that private channel though? :P 22:14:20 <drac_boy> FLHerne mind you one time it was like the railroad's there south over there .. and theres like a string of mixed mountains/hills impending anything to the north edge of map ... so after a few years ... and having to finally bicker a tunnel through one section .. I was able to run a few freights north finally ... 22:14:47 <drac_boy> thing was .. it was an isolated electrified section too .. would had been too difficult to run through steam trains 22:16:11 <drac_boy> if it was real-life .. it would had been something like the 2-6-2 steam locomotive cutting off at the junction station for two heavy crocodiles to back onto the train and soon they're whining loudly doing 30km/h up the 11% grade 22:16:18 <drac_boy> you following FLHerne? :) 22:16:59 <FLHerne> Yeah. Would probably have stuck with steam though - see private chat :P 22:24:36 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B039.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:31:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:31:33 <andythenorth> @seen frosch123 22:31:34 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 2 hours, 51 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <frosch123> footnote 1 22:31:37 <andythenorth> blah 22:31:44 <andythenorth> @seen Eddi|zuHause 22:31:45 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: Eddi|zuHause was last seen in #openttd 12 hours, 24 minutes, and 29 seconds ago: <Eddi|zuHause> Phazorx: meaning most newer GRFs have it out-of-the-box 22:31:48 <andythenorth> blah 22:31:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 22:33:28 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-020-069.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 22:39:59 *** Rhamphoryncus [~rhamph@d161-184-227-133.abhsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: Rhamphoryncus] 22:40:02 *** kais58_ [~kais58@host-92-22-180-160.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 22:42:59 *** art0n [~arton@eat183.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:45:48 *** kais58 [~kais58@host-92-22-112-192.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:47:44 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@178-33-38-239.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:52:16 <Eddi|zuHause> top 22:52:23 <Eddi|zuHause> bÀh 22:53:17 <__ln__> gesundheit 23:04:22 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 23:07:35 <Wolf01> 'night all 23:07:39 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.234.29] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:08:14 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable133.8-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 23:10:00 *** kais58 [~kais58@host-92-22-169-244.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 23:13:16 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B039.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:44 *** kais58_ [~kais58@host-92-22-180-160.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:35:29 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B039.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:36:19 *** TGYoshi [~TGYoshi@86.81.146.146] has quit [Quit: Hugs to all] 23:38:01 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-124-186.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 23:38:20 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@78.96.213.97] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 23:41:47 *** Frankr [~chatzilla@cpc4-pres13-2-0-cust231.pres.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 23:43:28 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-22-77.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:49:43 *** kais58_ [~kais58@host-92-22-116-58.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 23:51:41 *** kais58 [~kais58@host-92-22-169-244.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:57:07 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-21-32.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving]