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00:01:26 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has joined #openttd 00:14:22 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.83.112] has joined #openttd 00:14:49 *** argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:19:25 *** bryjen [~bryjen@cpe-75-81-247-49.we.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:25:40 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:26:17 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:36:20 *** planet [b20b3d68@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 00:37:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@128-72-9-250.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:38:09 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@port-92-195-127-8.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 00:38:12 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 00:40:29 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-103-126.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:44:12 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-236-35.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:08:21 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 01:08:44 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 01:54:55 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has quit [Quit: Vadtec was here....] 01:57:14 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has joined #openttd 02:09:25 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:10:58 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has joined #openttd 02:26:26 *** pjpe [ae5f4731@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:28:17 *** pjpe [ae5f4731@ircip2.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 02:38:16 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:453a:331a:d510:5a1e] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:43:12 *** BadBrett [~Bad_Brett@90-227-32-82-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [] 04:02:31 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:02:34 *** Jake_ [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 04:02:39 *** Jake_ is now known as Jake 04:10:14 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.122.81] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:36:54 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.73.147] has joined #openttd 04:41:24 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.68.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:47:26 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-23-55.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD419D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 04:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5ABD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:57:14 *** dada__ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 04:57:15 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:26 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-23-55.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 05:21:15 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:22:59 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@dsl-149-87-36.hive.is] has joined #openttd 05:43:22 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 05:53:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:817a:edce:a0af:487d] has joined #openttd 06:00:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:817a:edce:a0af:487d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:01:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:29:23 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 06:37:56 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:00:16 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 07:21:36 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:21:39 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:22:15 <Alberth> moin 07:22:26 <Supercheese> salve 07:30:31 <Rubidium> Alberth: hi, feels like "snertweer", right? 07:31:04 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host11-216-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 07:31:39 <Wolf01> hello 07:32:00 <Alberth> somewhat, although it is just a bit wet, but not raining much 07:32:15 <Alberth> hi Wolf01 07:48:09 *** argoneus [~argoneus@ip-78-102-118-47.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 07:52:19 *** planet [b20b3d68@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 07:55:09 *** dada_ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:55:09 *** dada__ [~dada_@dhcp-077-250-097-191.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:03:29 *** bryjen [~bryjen@cpe-75-81-247-49.we.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:04:02 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.73.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:07:10 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-152-006.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 08:22:29 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:38:06 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.83.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:50:39 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@524990B9.cm-4-2c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:53:01 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-35-157.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 08:58:22 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7efc.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 09:01:41 *** KnogleAFK [knogle@1604ds5-soeb.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [] 09:02:35 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.83.112] has joined #openttd 09:06:45 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A048.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:11:29 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED04D96.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:13:20 *** _Terkhen [~terkhen@37.130.145.78] has joined #openttd 09:13:37 <_Terkhen> good morning 09:14:14 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@5.9.88.173] has joined #openttd 09:14:44 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@5.9.88.173] has joined #openttd 09:14:44 *** SmatZ [~smatz@schere.no-ip.org] has joined #openttd 09:15:28 <Alberth> moin _Terkhen 09:19:37 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:21:45 <DDR> General question: I have enjoyed playing OpenTTD and Maxis' SimCities. Can anyone recommend a new-ish game in the same vein, other than SimuTrans? 09:22:25 <Rubidium> p1sim? 09:22:47 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@5.9.88.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:22:47 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@5.9.88.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:22:47 *** SmatZ [~smatz@schere.no-ip.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:22:56 <Rubidium> (well, not really recommend as I never played it) 09:23:22 <Rubidium> nor do I know whether there's an actual release of it either 09:23:28 <Alberth> it will be a few years before that is finished, I think 09:23:38 <DDR> Looks like more or less what I want, but a bit *too* new. 09:23:39 <andythenorth> theme park? 09:23:44 <andythenorth> railroad tycoon? 09:23:51 <andythenorth> all old :P 09:23:56 <andythenorth> Farmville! 09:24:03 <DDR> Played RailRoad Tycoon 2 Platinum into the ground. 09:24:21 <DDR> I actually was playing it just a month or two ago. :P 09:24:24 <Alberth> locomotion? 09:24:38 <Alberth> never played it though 09:25:14 <DDR> 6 years old, but I've never played it. 09:25:29 *** planet [b20b3d68@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 09:25:57 <DDR> In RRT2P, I actually found a song in the files I'd never heard before. 09:26:09 * Rubidium likes Caesar II/III and Pharaoh a lot as well 09:29:15 <DDR> Hm, looks possible. 09:29:39 <DDR> And... ancient. :/ I was 8 when those came out, Caesar III at least. 09:29:53 <DDR> I might still play them. 09:30:21 <DDR> Thanks, Rubidium and andythenorth. 09:30:36 *** keoz [~keikoz@79.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 09:31:18 <andythenorth> DDR: railroad tycoon 3 is pretty addictive 09:32:11 <DDR> I've actually downloaded it, I'm just a bit nervous of starting it up... what if it ruins RRT2? 09:32:59 <andythenorth> it's a completely different gameplay 09:36:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i tried RRT2 for half an hour, and didn't quite see the point of it after playing RRT 09:37:12 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-35-157.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> sure it has prettier graphics, but the gameplay took a turn for the worse and the UI was unintuitive/silly 09:37:57 <andythenorth> and it was...crashy 09:38:08 <_Terkhen> many games move in that direction lately :P 09:38:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i didn't get that far :p 09:38:20 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 09:38:28 <_Terkhen> "make it look nicer and dumb the whole thing down" 09:39:18 <andythenorth> more trains, more cargos, more industries 09:39:26 <andythenorth> option to build more things at stations 09:39:30 <andythenorth> "3D" graphics! 09:39:39 <andythenorth> definitely better, right? 09:39:53 <Eddi|zuHause> no "dispatcher operation"/signal towers 09:41:09 <Alberth> andythenorth: just like 32bpp? :) 09:41:44 <andythenorth> has map rotation! 09:41:48 <andythenorth> we definitely need that 09:42:07 <Markk> Yes 09:42:49 <Markk> But I'm quite fine with the transparency option. 09:43:59 <Alberth> andythenorth: I have not asked zephyris about it, but if he modelled the backside too, the chances get a lot better 09:46:04 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-106-245.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 09:49:53 *** _Terkhen [~terkhen@37.130.145.78] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:50:14 *** _Terkhen [~terkhen@37.130.145.78] has joined #openttd 09:51:05 *** AndyBotwin [~memberson@186.212.19.150] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 09:56:23 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 09:58:42 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but for "3D graphics" the rotation is very limited 09:58:42 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-152-006.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:59:29 <andythenorth> iirc they're rasterised pixels 10:05:37 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:10:56 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-23-55.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 10:15:09 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-152-006.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 10:16:25 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Hyronymus] 10:21:20 *** Beardie [~chatzilla@cpc7-pres16-2-0-cust242.18-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:28:29 <andythenorth> hmm 10:28:35 <andythenorth> will there be a 32bpp FIRS? 10:29:00 <frosch123> will there be an extra zoom firs? 10:29:33 <frosch123> you know, extra zoom graphics are so huge that they are safe for small children 10:30:38 <frosch123> anyway, did anyone bother yet to draw extra zoom graphics without rendering? 10:30:53 <frosch123> i think there is nothing more boring that doing stuff 4 times 10:31:04 <frosch123> or 3? 10:33:56 * frosch123 ponders shipping food 10:38:31 <frosch123> tram-ship-tram sounds nice, doesn't it? 10:38:56 <Industrial> Just hit the max on vehicles (500) the first time :-( 10:39:17 <frosch123> increase the limit 10:39:22 *** Wold [~Wold@93-152-170-93.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:39:30 <frosch123> it's only for multiplayer issues 10:39:46 *** Wold [~Wold@93-152-170-93.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #openttd 10:39:58 <Industrial> I can watch other people build :O? I'm not that good with rails :| 10:40:33 <Industrial> oh, awzum :E 10:40:49 <frosch123> _Terkhen: building tram tracks is so much easier now :) 10:41:23 <Industrial> frosch123: I can't seem to join any game though. The button is greyed out. 10:41:50 <frosch123> you need to find a server which runs exactly the same version as you have 10:41:56 <frosch123> what version of ottd are you running? 10:42:39 <Industrial> 1.1.4 it seems (jeez slow downstream in ubuntu). I'll get the latest. 10:43:18 <frosch123> most servers run 1.2.2 :) 10:43:23 <_Terkhen> frosch123: :) 10:43:40 <_Terkhen> I have not played a test game but it felt more simpler in my tests 10:47:12 <frosch123> oh, looks like i build a wrong ship 10:47:26 <frosch123> why are ferries refittable to food? :s 10:48:32 <_Terkhen> soylent green? 10:49:00 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-89-176-31-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 10:49:01 <frosch123> i bought a paddle steamer because it was so fast and could carry 540 stuff 10:49:21 <frosch123> but turned out 540 meant pax, and only 112 food 10:54:28 <Zuu> _Terkhen: Indeed, that change with draging of road is very quick to become used to. When using 1.2 for whatever reason, it is easy to make silly mistakes. :-) 10:54:39 <andythenorth> frosch123: did they buy menu mention cargo capacity? 10:54:41 <andythenorth> the * 10:55:06 <frosch123> yes, for pax 10:55:16 <frosch123> which i did not notice 10:55:28 <frosch123> since i assumed that no vehicle would refit between pax and cargo .) 10:56:10 <frosch123> now i use huge freighters instead 10:56:19 <frosch123> which are as big as the lake i made at the dock :) 10:56:28 <frosch123> i guess they are not exactly canal boats 10:57:02 <andythenorth> try building a dock on rivers or canals :P 10:57:04 <andythenorth> it's boring 10:57:34 <frosch123> my route is about 1/3 of each river, canal and sea 11:02:16 <_Terkhen> Zuu: :) 11:07:09 <andythenorth> NewDocks? 11:14:32 *** Yexo [~thijs@ip5455657b.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:14:36 *** mode/#openttd [+o Yexo] by ChanServ 11:21:59 <frosch123> hmm, are dump trucks appropiate for food? 11:24:01 <frosch123> oh, a tram just reversed where it should not reverse :o 11:24:57 <frosch123> they just reverse at the end of a downhill track 11:26:30 <Alberth> andy: alternative buy menu? :p http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=164658 11:26:30 <andythenorth> try running them into the sea? 11:26:41 <andythenorth> dump trucks are appropriate for food :) 11:26:52 <andythenorth> Alberth: hey that's like the mockup we made :) 11:27:28 <Alberth> the left side doesn't look pretty to me at all 11:28:12 <frosch123> is that locomotion? 11:29:01 <andythenorth> the mockup I made is on devzone somewhere 11:31:17 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:31:48 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 11:33:48 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:34:18 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:34:18 *** SmatZ [~smatz@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:34:49 *** avdg [~avdg@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:34:49 *** Yexo- [~Yexo@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:35:15 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:35:18 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 11:35:49 *** tneo [~tneo@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:35:57 *** Yexo [~thijs@ip5455657b.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:36:18 *** Osai [~Osai@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:36:18 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:36:21 *** mode/#openttd [+o Terkhen] by ChanServ 11:36:26 *** Yexo- is now known as Yexo 11:36:49 *** XeryusTC_ [~XeryusTC@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:36:49 *** V453000 [~V453000@bnc.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 11:38:13 *** _Terkhen [~terkhen@37.130.145.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:38:19 *** Kylie [kvirc@CPE18593346e177-CM18593346e174.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 11:38:21 <Kylie> to canadians: happy thanksgiving weekend! 11:38:59 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0f08e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:39:42 <andythenorth> Alberth: http://www.tt-foundry.com/misc/buy_menu_rework.png 11:42:05 <Alberth> seems quite large :) 11:42:25 *** Wold [~Wold@93-152-170-93.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:42:53 *** Wold [~Wold@93-152-170-93.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #openttd 11:44:35 <andythenorth> ships are 11:45:54 <Kylie> andythenorth: why are ships so cheap 11:46:09 *** laosgh [5e16518c@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 11:47:06 *** laosgh [5e16518c@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [] 11:49:38 <Alberth> to be ablew to buy one in the start of the game, I think 11:49:49 <Alberth> -w 11:55:37 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 11:57:00 <andythenorth> it's one way to reduce their total pointlessness 11:57:06 <andythenorth> there is very little point to ships 12:01:07 <andythenorth> openttd is a remarkably unbalanced game wrt different transport types 12:03:16 <andythenorth> compare something like Warcraft 1 where different kinds of units have very different roles in gameplay (peons, orcs, catapults) etc 12:03:31 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.83.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:04:05 <frosch123> he... trains, rv and ships are very useful in my current game 12:04:12 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.83.112] has joined #openttd 12:04:27 <frosch123> ships just only make sense if you have really lots of cargo 12:04:52 <frosch123> and rv only make sense on very short routes 12:05:07 <frosch123> you just play the wrong games :) 12:05:56 <frosch123> anyway, time to fund my fifth food plant 12:08:51 <Elukka> i think it's not a problem you can totally solve with the current economy 12:09:06 <Elukka> one obvious way to make ships useful would be to make rail bridges more expensive 12:09:12 <Elukka> but what does that matter when you have infinite money anyway? 12:09:41 <Alberth> Elukka: just make new land in the sea :p 12:09:47 <frosch123> rail bridges longer than 20 tiles are not really efficient :p 12:10:12 <Alberth> frosch123: depends on how many you have :p 12:10:20 <andythenorth> original TTD was a lot more balanced 12:10:22 <frosch123> anyway, preventing all kind of cheats is not exactly a good goal 12:10:37 <andythenorth> - ships were useless, RVs were useless, planes were too expensive and crashed a lot 12:10:39 <frosch123> just let the cheaters not have fun :p 12:10:54 <andythenorth> - signals were useless, and you could only fill so much map with "1 line per train" 12:11:08 <andythenorth> we fixed trains with PBS and all the other crap :P 12:11:32 <andythenorth> trains are now super-awesome and will win on every route 12:11:38 <frosch123> wrong 12:11:40 <Alberth> I played a lot with signals, they sort of work with simple RORO setups 12:11:58 <frosch123> andythenorth: you try to make all vehicles the same, which will turn ottd in totally boredom 12:11:59 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:5f5:793:2ff8:e797] has joined #openttd 12:12:02 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:12:33 <frosch123> it's not the point of ships and rv to be used for the same purpose as trains 12:12:55 <Alberth> +1 12:12:57 <frosch123> rv are for short distances which just fail for trains because of space and loading times 12:13:23 <frosch123> ships are for lots of cargos which would need 10 tracks in parallel for a single point to point connection 12:13:48 <frosch123> try to transport 10k of food with trains 12:13:51 <andythenorth> I am overly influenced by recent GS games :P 12:13:51 <frosch123> totally pointless 12:14:00 <andythenorth> we had 10 or 12 tracks in parallel 12:14:01 <frosch123> andythenorth: i am just now playing a gs 12:14:09 <frosch123> but a long term gs, no 5 year short game 12:14:33 <frosch123> if the maximum amount of cargo you have is 1k in 3 months, yeah, ships are pretty pointless 12:14:38 <andythenorth> if 10-12 track maglev is optimum for a 5 year GS, why isn't it also optimum for 25 years? 12:14:55 <frosch123> i am in 1939 12:14:58 <frosch123> no maglev 12:15:15 <frosch123> if you want to make ships compete with maglev 12:15:24 <frosch123> well, then you need hydrofoil cargoships 12:15:34 <frosch123> which carry 1k cargo and go 70 km/h 12:15:36 <Alberth> turbo-shipping :) 12:15:46 <frosch123> or just play without maglev 12:15:50 <frosch123> maglev is only for pax 12:16:04 <frosch123> and ships are pointless for pax in general, except if you want to play golf 12:16:15 <frosch123> but who cares about pax? 12:16:25 <Alberth> disable cargoes for maglev? 12:16:44 <frosch123> i think i always played like that :) 12:16:57 <frosch123> though argueable i tend to play more 1920-1970 12:17:01 <Alberth> I mostly never reach maglev stage :) 12:18:53 *** Wold [~Wold@93-152-170-93.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:48 <andythenorth> it's a shame that it's not possible to provide a cost baseline that would level grfs 12:28:50 <andythenorth> something like 12:28:59 <andythenorth> cost per unit hp-ton-speed 12:29:07 <Elukka> rail and road vehicles are balanced with better road vehicles and higher running costs for trains 12:29:17 <Elukka> which makes trains unfeasible for particularly short or low capacity routes 12:29:37 <Elukka> in vanilla and many grfs though it's pretty much better to just go with trains 12:30:01 <andythenorth> so all the MP games I played recently, trains were absolutely dominant 12:30:52 <frosch123> that is quite subjective 12:30:59 <andythenorth> obviously :) 12:31:07 <frosch123> in the mp games i played with you, trams were equally often used 12:31:10 <frosch123> for feeders 12:31:21 <frosch123> and in the supplies game, there were tons of aircraft 12:31:30 <andythenorth> the return on buying a train was much larger than on other types though 12:31:34 <frosch123> for ships we did not have enough industry output 12:31:46 <andythenorth> most of those games, a train would repay purchase cost in ~3 months 12:31:54 <frosch123> who cares? 12:32:01 <frosch123> the game is about transporting stuff efficiently 12:32:05 <frosch123> and not about making money 12:32:34 <frosch123> else you can build the money maker at the start and be finished 12:33:01 <frosch123> the point of the gs was to force a maximum tranport percentage of cargo 12:33:16 <frosch123> not to force you to make the most money with the fewest vehicles 12:34:34 <frosch123> games with the goal of making money only work if there is a lot of micro management 12:34:42 <frosch123> else the income always grows exponential 12:35:05 <frosch123> and since ottd is luckily not about micro management, the money goal is completely useless 12:35:23 <frosch123> just ignore it 12:35:48 <andythenorth> ok, so...for those GS ships don't fit 12:36:00 <frosch123> not for short s 12:36:03 <frosch123> *gs 12:36:04 <andythenorth> so what would be an interesting variation? 12:36:20 <frosch123> currently i am playing a 30 years sv game, with 10k goal 12:36:23 <andythenorth> other than the obvious like "build 500 ships" :P 12:36:34 <frosch123> i have to transport them accross half the map, because there are only 2 food shops 12:36:43 <frosch123> that's only feasible to do with ships 12:36:57 <andythenorth> no planes yet? 12:36:58 <frosch123> ofc i could spoil the game and just fund a food shop in my home town 12:37:04 <andythenorth> :P 12:37:06 <frosch123> but well, that would be stupid and make the game boring 12:37:24 <frosch123> planes? i hope you do not mean for the food? 12:38:20 <frosch123> andythenorth: add two new parameters to firs 12:38:30 <frosch123> multiplier for primary and secondary cargo production 12:38:55 <frosch123> if industries produce a lot more, ships become a lot more feasible 12:39:22 <frosch123> if they produce a lot less, rv become more feasible :p 12:39:42 <frosch123> but likely the roads will bankrupt you 12:39:50 <andythenorth> frosch123: I want to do that differently 12:40:07 <andythenorth> we should have a thing called NoConomy 12:40:19 <andythenorth> and it should offer player / GS more control over prod_level 12:41:19 <andythenorth> FIRS primaries would then use prod_level in their output calc (they currently don't( 12:42:07 <andythenorth> but they wouldn't set or modify prod_level, allowing player / openttd / GS to do it 12:54:43 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:54:47 *** Jake_ [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:54:50 *** Jake_ is now known as Jake 13:10:42 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:47 *** Jake_ [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 13:10:49 *** Jake_ is now known as Jake 13:24:31 <andythenorth> frosch123: in the absence of NoConomy, a FIRS parameter to set production would be trivial 13:24:35 <andythenorth> but I think it's stinky :P 13:33:22 *** KritiK [~Maxim@176.14.59.49] has joined #openttd 13:37:13 <frosch123> trams need an unstuck button 13:37:17 <frosch123> to ignore other vehicles 13:38:19 <andythenorth> or when they reach the end of a tile with no loop back 13:38:32 <frosch123> you can avoid that 13:38:49 <frosch123> but if trams are stuck in a circle 13:38:55 <frosch123> its annoying to wait for the timeout 13:38:56 <andythenorth> then they're very stuck :) 13:39:02 <frosch123> until you can redesign the track 13:39:05 <andythenorth> I have had that with loops + depots :) 13:39:44 <frosch123> i feel i have to abandon the tram usage 13:39:49 <frosch123> and instead drive ships uphill 13:39:52 <andythenorth> :( 13:39:56 <andythenorth> screenshot? :P 13:41:56 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/TramsHaveTooLowCapacity.png <- i need to transport 4k per quarter (10k in the long run) over 15 tiles and 3 height levels 13:43:28 <andythenorth> ho ho 13:43:33 <andythenorth> tram mania 13:43:34 <andythenorth> :) 13:43:58 <andythenorth> canal switchback for ships? 13:44:06 <andythenorth> we need boat lifts :P 13:44:21 <andythenorth> http://englishrussia.com/2011/08/09/the-job-of-vessel-carrying/ 13:44:24 <frosch123> mind that i don't want to stationwalk those 15 tiles :p 13:47:48 *** Beardie [~chatzilla@cpc7-pres16-2-0-cust242.18-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427]] 13:53:00 <andythenorth> frosch123: you only have to go up 3 levels :P 13:53:07 <andythenorth> I do that kind of thing all the time :P 13:53:39 <frosch123> i think i should try to not use any tram sections 13:53:50 <frosch123> and balance them to use the stops bidirectional 13:54:05 <frosch123> unfortunately there are neither tram signals 13:54:08 <andythenorth> long trams block very easily 13:54:10 <frosch123> nor tram oneway tracks 13:57:40 <andythenorth> I could implement them as trains :P 13:57:51 <andythenorth> defeats the point? 13:59:43 <frosch123> yeah, no dual track on single tile 14:01:49 <Alberth> such a nice and quiet town, and then a big tram network right next to it :) 14:02:28 <frosch123> well, they eat so much 14:06:25 <andythenorth> frosch123: no trucks? 14:06:46 <andythenorth> also which FISH version? 14:07:48 <frosch123> i think i started the game two weeks ago 14:07:51 <frosch123> so, old fish 14:08:02 <frosch123> no trucks available for some reason 14:08:07 <frosch123> only the small ogfx ones 14:08:12 <frosch123> maybe too early? 14:08:25 <frosch123> or i disabled them :p 14:09:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:11:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:33:20 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0f08e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 14:45:49 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45:53 *** Jake_ [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:45:56 *** Jake_ is now known as Jake 14:59:40 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:07:01 *** keoz [~keikoz@79.4.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: keoz] 15:15:19 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 15:21:12 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A048.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:40 *** mahmoud [~KEM@ALyon-158-1-35-157.w90-29.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 15:53:51 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0f08e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:02:46 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.122.81] has joined #openttd 16:30:14 *** roadt [~roadt@60.168.83.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:36:30 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 16:58:08 *** Hyronymus1 [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:05:24 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:06:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:07:48 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-97-7.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 17:12:22 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-106-245.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:16:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:18:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 17:18:54 *** glx is now known as Guest786 17:18:54 *** glx_ [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:5f5:793:2ff8:e797] has joined #openttd 17:18:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx_] by ChanServ 17:18:54 *** glx_ is now known as glx 17:20:07 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:22:02 *** Hyronymus1 [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:25:05 *** Guest786 [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:5f5:793:2ff8:e797] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:28:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:29:23 *** Matulla [~chatzilla@95-89-101-95-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 17:30:01 <Matulla> hi all Question are the citisens numbers and down in some cases ? 17:30:31 <Matulla> im shure i had 680 but now after road building i got 560 17:32:02 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:35:05 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-89-176-31-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:36:55 *** si-m1 [~simeng@lol.h4x.no] has joined #openttd 17:37:08 *** TyrHeimdal [~TyrHeimda@193.142.100.177] has joined #openttd 17:37:15 <TyrHeimdal> HI! :D 17:37:37 <Eddi|zuHause> buildings can close down or be rebuilt into different buldings 17:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> then that building's population is removed from the town population 17:38:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it will be increased again when the bulding is finished 17:38:30 <TyrHeimdal> Is there a way to close an airport so that planes don't land? Useful whn upgrading airports. 17:38:38 <TyrHeimdal> *when 17:40:20 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.122.81] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:41:51 <Eddi|zuHause> there is an old patch 17:42:31 <andythenorth> it's in nightly no? 17:42:46 <andythenorth> yeah, in nightlies 17:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause> sure? 17:42:57 <andythenorth> yup 17:43:01 <andythenorth> just checked 17:43:08 <Eddi|zuHause> since when? 17:43:08 <andythenorth> "OpenTTD is not dying" tm 17:43:15 <andythenorth> not sure when 17:43:21 <andythenorth> small stuff keeps turning up in nightlies :) 17:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess i missed a bit in the last months 17:49:22 <Matulla> Eddi|zuHause: Thanks 17:49:27 *** Matulla [~chatzilla@95-89-101-95-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #openttd [] 18:06:25 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:28 *** Jake_ [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:06:32 *** Jake_ is now known as Jake 18:17:12 *** Jake [~chatzilla@host81-156-48-130.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 15.0.1/20120905151427]] 18:25:49 <NGC3982> Evening. 18:28:30 <Alberth> 'oi 18:32:31 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host86-165-87-251.range86-165.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:36:29 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [] 19:07:39 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:52 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:14:02 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:21:12 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:21:37 * andythenorth wonders if FIRS snow sprites will be finished soon :P 19:21:50 <andythenorth> 5 or 6 industries left to draw snow for :| 19:40:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C75E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:43:42 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-125-10-83.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:44:47 *** Chris_Booth[ph]_ [~chrisboot@213.205.225.238] has joined #openttd 19:46:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6CC10.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:47:59 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@host86-165-87-251.range86-165.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:48:01 *** Chris_Booth[ph]_ is now known as Chris_Booth[ph] 19:50:02 *** Chris_Booth[ph] [~chrisboot@213.205.225.238] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:53:13 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 20:12:14 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d172-218-23-55.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 20:31:23 <supermop> hi 20:34:28 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 20:35:15 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-165-87-251.range86-165.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:36:05 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:43:32 <Terkhen> good night 20:51:06 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:54:41 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.64.140] has joined #openttd 20:55:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:00:27 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-97-7.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:05:06 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-94-114.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 21:05:35 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:06:23 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 21:12:44 *** BadBrett [~Bad_Brett@90-227-32-82-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 21:14:38 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 21:23:53 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5ABD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:39 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5ABD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:34:57 *** snorre [~snorre@c4A06BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:38:55 *** snorre [~snorre@c4A06BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd 21:44:23 *** Chris_Booth [~chatzilla@host86-165-87-251.range86-165.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 16.0/20121002073616]] 22:00:23 *** Cyberworm [~Cyberworm@p54895E76.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:01:46 <Cyberworm> hi I'm trying to cross-compile version 1.2.2 and I encountered some problems with squirrel 22:02:03 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-125-10-83.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #openttd [] 22:28:38 <Wolf01> 'night 22:28:42 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host11-216-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:35:17 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:47:40 *** FLHerne [~francis_h@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:17:57 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:04 <Yexo> Cyberworm: what problems did you encounter? 23:19:11 <Yexo> if you aren't more specific, we can't help you 23:23:47 <Cyberworm> when compiling sqbaselib.cpp I get error messages of that kind: 23:24:00 <Cyberworm> arm-none-linux-gnueabi/include/c++/4.6.1/cmath:975:11: error: '::acoshl' has not been declared 23:24:30 <Cyberworm> they are several messages like this 23:24:36 <Cyberworm> with different missing declarations 23:24:44 <Cyberworm> all from cmath 23:26:07 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0f08e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 23:26:41 <glx> that should be provided by the compiler 23:27:10 *** Hyronymus [~Thunderbi@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Hyronymus] 23:31:23 <Cyberworm> glx: what do you mean? 23:32:49 <glx> cmath is a c++ include provided by the compiler 23:35:11 <Cyberworm> is that provided automatically? 23:41:10 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.122.81] has joined #openttd 23:56:21 <frosch123> night 23:56:23 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7efc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:50 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit []