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Log for #openttd on 24th October 2012:
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00:14:38  <BadBrett> how many articulated parts can a vehicle have?
00:15:02  <Supercheese> Well, at least 7 plus the front vehicle
00:15:06  <Supercheese> as one of my grfs has that
00:15:10  <Supercheese> likely more
00:15:12  <Supercheese> many more
00:15:39  <Supercheese> HEQS has... lots
00:16:21  <BadBrett> splendid
00:17:12  <BadBrett> i'm writing a script for 32 turning angles and that will require a lot of articulated parts for loco+tender
00:18:15  <Supercheese> seems like theoretically you could have hundreds of articulated parts in GRF v8
00:18:34  <Supercheese> v7 appears to have more limits
00:19:00  <BadBrett> cool
00:20:35  <Eddi|zuHause> once upon a time the limit was 128
00:21:01  <Supercheese> That's the limit for v7, I gather
00:21:06  <BadBrett> I was afraid it was like 8 or 16... :P
00:21:23  <Eddi|zuHause> (being also the maximum train length, so a vehicle like that could not be part of a train with more than one vehicle)
00:22:33  <BadBrett> alright, that would (maybe) have been a problem then... what's the new limit?
00:22:56  <Supercheese> Probably something on the order of a couple thousand
00:23:07  <Supercheese> it increased from, what, 8 to 15 bits?
00:23:38  <Supercheese> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Callback:_Articulated_engine
00:24:07  <Supercheese> Sooo... max of 32766 or so
00:24:40  <BadBrett> ahh... I guess I should RTFM
00:25:21  <Supercheese> The NML specs don't even state an upper bound :P
00:25:33  <BadBrett> i can see why :)
00:25:39  <Supercheese> For v8 that is; just 0..127 for v7.
00:27:25  <dada_> http://wedemandhtml.com/tmp/Colonialist%20Oppressors%20Ltd.,%2004-08-2164.png boatz
00:27:54  <Supercheese> Mater dei...
00:27:55  <BadBrett> a vehicle with the length of a tile could consist of 16 parts... so you could still have trains with 8 wagons with v7... if i'm not mistaken
00:29:14  <BadBrett> that's a lot of transportation!
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07:04:20  <Terkhen> good morning
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07:07:30  <Knogle> if you say so
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09:01:07  <dihedral> hellpo
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09:07:10  <NGC3982> Morning.
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09:33:01  <Nickshanks> wiki.openttd.org/Stations should link to [[Distant-join stations]]
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10:33:29  <planetmaker> nickshanks, it's a wiki, you know :-)
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11:42:10  <nickshanks> planetmaker: yes but editing is disabled for unregistered users, and registration of new user accounts is disabled
11:42:46  <nickshanks> ergo I have tried to find a way to contact someone who can edit it
11:50:04  <peter1138> Does it need one of these accounts? http://account.openttd.org/en/signup
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11:52:58  <nickshanks> peter1138: yes! that worked. now I can edit stuff
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11:54:35  * andythenorth ponders how to build two grfs from one FIRS
11:55:55  <nickshanks> okay, I added a link.
11:58:36  <andythenorth> two makefiles
11:58:42  <andythenorth> or two targets for the makefile
11:58:50  <andythenorth> pass in an arg to the build script for the grf
11:58:57  <andythenorth> switch templates 8bpp / 32bpp
11:59:07  <andythenorth> produce one or two grfs, in one or two zip files
11:59:08  <andythenorth> win?
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11:59:57  <nickshanks> when building other people's random stuff, I like one makefile that does everything :)
12:06:15  <NGC3982> A bit of an arbitrary question
12:06:25  <NGC3982> But, how much can a normal modern freight engine pull?
12:06:44  <NGC3982> 2000 tonnes, or 20,000 tonnes? Im not used to the scales..
12:07:48  <andythenorth> depends on ruling grade, adhesion, friction, tractive effort (weight)
12:08:03  <andythenorth> and horsepower
12:08:23  <andythenorth> and are you talking about in-game, or irl?
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12:13:46  <NGC3982> IRL
12:13:51  <NGC3982> Sorry. :p
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12:15:09  <andythenorth> NGC3982: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_59#Notable_workings_and_accidents
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12:16:02  <andythenorth> ~12,000t for 3,300hp
12:16:11  <andythenorth> that's the european record though
12:16:45  <NGC3982> I see
12:16:55  <NGC3982> Well, at least that's giving me a somewhat decent scale
12:17:21  <NGC3982> I was actually not aware if the numbers were in the thousands, or tens of thousands.
12:17:36  <andythenorth> thousands would be more common
12:18:36  <NGC3982> A horsepower per tonne, or something
12:19:23  <andythenorth> in the US any given route has a hp-per-tonne ratio
12:19:28  <andythenorth> which is governed by the ruling grade
12:19:32  <andythenorth> and the type of power used
12:19:44  <andythenorth> not enough hp, the train crew will have to double the grade
12:19:47  <andythenorth> which is...bad
12:19:55  <andythenorth> because then they have to re-air the train
12:20:11  <andythenorth> AC power has a lot more ability to creep a grade than DC power though
12:20:31  <andythenorth> @calc 36*32
12:20:31  <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 1152
12:21:00  <andythenorth> NGC3982: ^ a typical UK coal train would have about that amount of cargo, with a ~3000 hp locomotive
12:21:03  <Soft> So I have this weird problem with openttd. Only carriages are shown in the rail vechiles window and I cannot find a way to buy a locomotive.
12:21:04  <andythenorth> + tare weight
12:21:09  <Soft> I only started playing yeasterday so maybe this is some common beginner mistake.
12:21:11  <andythenorth> bbl
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12:21:15  <Soft> the locomotives were visible before
12:23:32  <NGC3982> APTX: Ah, i see.
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12:23:46  <NGC3982> and.. wat.
12:23:48  <NGC3982> Oh.
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12:24:10  <APTX> huh?
12:24:53  <NGC3982> APTX: Sorry, bad hilight.
12:24:54  <NGC3982> :)
12:26:11  <NGC3982> By the way, i fail to find an rcon entry on how to change Plane speed factor?
12:28:54  <NGC3982> Oh, it seems unchangeable during network games.
12:28:55  <NGC3982> Bummer.
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13:20:08  <Belugas> hello
13:24:33  <V453000> hi, is somewhere a setting to change the time that clients have to connect to the server?
13:31:45  <Ammler> yes
13:33:07  <V453000> good, thanks
13:33:14  <V453000> :P
13:37:59  <TyrHeimdal> max_join_time
13:38:37  <planetmaker> nickshanks, I see, I wasn't aware that one couldn't register (anymore) via the wiki :-) Thanks for adding that piece of info
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14:12:01  <nickshanks> Folks, I'm new to TTD. I have read http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals and http://www.darkcoding.net/misc/openttd-trains-and-signals-for-beginners-a-tutorial/ and http://kokolokus.de/?s=blog&v=6 yet I still don't understand signals :/
14:12:39  <nickshanks> I have two double-track stations
14:13:00  <nickshanks> i know i should join them with double track, and put crossovers outside each station
14:13:54  <nickshanks> somwhat like this: http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals#Basic_two-way_station but the station is a terminus
14:14:10  <V453000> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/Presignal_Basics
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14:14:31  <Flygon> Well, if it's a terminus, just build the same station design... but without tracks going out one end :p
14:14:35  <DanMacK> Hey all
14:14:56  <nickshanks> but the last link I posted doesn't specify which signals are used, nor explain why
14:15:17  <nickshanks> they all seem to be one-way
14:16:27  <Flygon> Use the Path Signal type signal for the signal closest to the station, build the crossover, then use one way signals... is what I'm pretty sure I should be saying
14:16:52  <Flygon> Path signals being the 2nd from the right, and one-way being the 1st from the right
14:18:06  <Flygon> I should feel bad for joining this channel, and then just instantly trying to help peeps new to this game, despite never having been in this channel before... but it's 1:17AM and I'm bored... and having been baffled by signals myself, well, dayum :B
14:19:00  <nickshanks> i appreciate the efforts
14:19:09  <Flygon> No worries
14:19:29  <Flygon> It'd be even easier to set up a multiplayer game, and work from there
14:20:15  <nickshanks> on that basic two-way station, there are eight signals
14:20:50  <nickshanks> when you say 'first from the right' whice right are you referring to? :)
14:20:55  <nickshanks> *which
14:21:16  <Flygon> Hmmm
14:21:28  <Flygon> Lemme try to MSPaint up some station :p
14:22:22  <nickshanks> label the signals A, B and C, and say whether each is one-way, block/entry/exit/combo/path
14:23:00  <Flygon> Though, in almost every game I play
14:23:04  <Flygon> I use only two types of signals
14:23:21  <Flygon> The Path signal, and the one way
14:23:46  <nickshanks> the light signals are harder to distinguish between block and path types. i will use semaphore ones
14:23:59  <nickshanks> i can tell the difference between yellow and red
14:24:04  <Flygon> Ahh
14:24:06  <Flygon> Uuh
14:24:14  <Flygon> I just took a screenie with Lights, heh...
14:24:20  <nickshanks> doesn't matter :)
14:24:29  <nickshanks> as long as i know which is which
14:24:29  <Flygon> The game I have running uses GRF's that replace the semaphores... and makes them hard to see
14:25:33  <nickshanks> the basic problem i have with the wiki is all it says for this is "With this station layout, trains can use both platforms when coming from either direction."
14:25:57  <nickshanks> and I am left thinking "what exactly is the layout? and why does it work?"
14:25:57  <Flygon> Uploading the screenie
14:26:04  <Flygon> Ahh
14:26:18  <Flygon> It's because the trains can go from the signals put in the platform from behind
14:26:28  <Flygon> And the one way signal will block the train if both platforms are full
14:26:46  <nickshanks> that wouldn't work with a terminus though
14:26:51  <nickshanks> because the tracks are two-way
14:26:56  <Flygon> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/basictwowaystation.png Red is the signals that block trains, but trains can go through from behind
14:27:12  <Flygon> And purple are the signals that are one way; trains cannot go from behind these signals
14:28:31  <Flygon> Also, to help understand the way a train's pathfinding works better.... as in, how it's planned
14:28:37  <Flygon> I recommend going to the Advanced Options
14:28:47  <NGC3982> This was odd.
14:28:59  <NGC3982> Im running a dedicated server on my own
14:29:01  <Flygon> Display Options > Show Reserved Tracks: On
14:29:19  <NGC3982> I made sure that min_active_clients was set to "1", so that the game pauses when nobody is online.
14:29:22  <Flygon> It also helps you detect traffic jams much more easily
14:29:57  <planetmaker> nickshanks, but it's true. The easiest approach to signaling is path signals:
14:30:02  <nickshanks> okay, yes i saw that in some screenshots
14:30:14  <planetmaker> build a path signal there where a train may stop without blocking any important track pieces like junctions
14:30:16  <nickshanks> show reserved tracks, i mean
14:30:24  <NGC3982> For some reason, time flows on the server when im not online.
14:30:25  <planetmaker> thus your station will need exactly one signal at the entrance before the X
14:30:31  <Flygon> Also, I'll take a screenie of a successful terminus to show you an example of one :p
14:30:37  <planetmaker> NGC3982, min_active_clients > 0 ?
14:30:41  <nickshanks> so if I use path signals, i never need block signals?
14:30:53  <Flygon> planetmaker: You put these things in words I fail to use :3
14:30:53  <nickshanks> thanks flygon
14:30:54  <planetmaker> yes. kinda
14:31:49  <nickshanks> i spend 99% of my time playing this game paused :)
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14:31:56  <planetmaker> I've tried to explain them a few times, Flygon ;-)
14:32:08  <Flygon> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/Art/Other/cubaterminus.png Terminus using exactly the same method
14:32:09  <planetmaker> nickshanks, why? does time matter?
14:32:23  <nickshanks> I wish there was a free/open clone of Railroad Tycoon 2
14:32:28  <NGC3982> It's not constistent, but i closed down the server and did not open it for four hours. When i closed it, the year was 2010. When i join again, it's 2017?
14:32:35  <nickshanks> i had it many years ago but it never got carbonised
14:32:36  <Flygon> planetmaker: Probably because it's easier to build new parts of a live network
14:32:39  <planetmaker> (yes, it does, if you play with defaults, where vehicles become unavailable after some time. I tend to forget that)
14:32:42  <Flygon> As unrealistic as that is :p
14:32:55  <NGC3982> Flygon: I do that.
14:33:01  <planetmaker> Flygon, easier yes. But that's the part of playing I find most interesting among a few other select things
14:33:01  <Flygon> As do I
14:33:16  <Flygon> But planet is right
14:33:21  <Flygon> It's more thrilling to do it live
14:33:38  <Flygon> As well as the chance to realize how stupid you are when you fail to prevent train crashes
14:33:42  <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/xZdDu.png,
14:33:50  <Flygon> I've crashed many a train because I changed a signal at a bad time :B
14:34:38  <planetmaker> who hasn't done that? ;-)
14:34:51  <nickshanks> flygon: as best I can tell, the second screenshot is the same as the first in terms of signalling
14:34:59  <planetmaker> but as I play MP most of the time, stopping time is not really an option for me
14:35:00  <Flygon> Exactly
14:35:44  <Flygon> I'd like to play MP with friends... but we'd like to play long drawn out games on 2048*2048 maps over the course of 200+ years
14:35:44  <nickshanks> well in my game it was Apr 20th when i decided I eff'd up and went back to jan 3rd which is when i first saved
14:36:07  <Flygon> Obviously not an option when the net-sync craps out on anything bigger than 512*512 :p
14:36:35  <planetmaker> nickshanks, activate autosave on a monthly basis ;-)
14:37:13  <planetmaker> Flygon, the network or server has no issues with big maps. The clients do
14:37:21  <Flygon> Yeah, exactly
14:37:33  <planetmaker> 2k^2 maps just are too big to be fun. You can't finish them
14:37:39  <Flygon> Ehhh
14:37:44  <Flygon> I've come close, in SP
14:39:15  <Flygon> But then again, close is subjective
14:39:31  <Flygon> The North America scenario is brilliant, either way
14:39:38  <nickshanks> okay, new problem: there's a transmitter along the path where i would like to build, and it says "cost to clear: N/A". does that mean I can't clear it?
14:40:16  <Flygon> Yes
14:40:29  <Flygon> Transmitters are unplowable, without a magic bulldozer
14:40:51  <nickshanks> so, basically i have to choose another place to put the station
14:41:14  <Flygon> Yes
14:45:33  <Flygon> Anyway, I come with a bizarre question
14:46:14  <Flygon> Is the only way to make 'green' tiles out of 'desert' tiles in the Sub-tropical climate inside the scenario editor, to place lakes, and bomb them?
14:47:18  <V453000> does that even work?
14:47:18  <V453000> lakes
14:47:35  <nickshanks> i like this: unpause demolish pause; unpause build station pause -> station is exploding :)
14:47:59  <Flygon> V453000: Natural lakes, not artificial
14:52:37  <planetmaker> Flygon, ctrl+place desert
14:53:13  <planetmaker> I hope the tooltip of that explains it, too (at least in English and German it should)
14:53:30  <planetmaker> afaik
14:53:46  <Flygon> I bloody love you, mate
14:53:51  <Flygon> You're a lifesaver!
14:54:08  <NGC3982> Can someone let me know if Andy returns?
14:54:16  <planetmaker> beware... I just toy around with something like a rail gun ;-)
14:54:20  <planetmaker> and it's bloody fun :D
14:54:35  <NGC3982> :O
14:54:37  <Flygon> I'll try to avoid playing Quake 3 with you
14:54:42  <nickshanks> next question: is there a way to rotate the map? if so, it's very well hidden
14:54:54  <planetmaker> nah... the real thing.... linear motors ftw :)
14:54:58  <NGC3982> No, there isnt.
14:55:30  <Flygon> Fine, I'll hope you're not Australian :p
14:55:42  <planetmaker> accelerating in 1.5 milliseconds from 0 to 5m/s is... fast ;-)
14:56:13  <planetmaker> with a load of a few kg
14:56:14  <Rubidium> how many g is that?
14:56:19  <planetmaker> 330g
14:56:45  <planetmaker> not sure I trust the software yet
14:56:50  <planetmaker> but that's what it says
14:58:37  <Rubidium> how did you calculate that?
14:58:49  <V453000> what that works? the ctrl place desert? never knew :D live and learn
14:58:55  <Rubidium> @calc 5/0.0015
14:58:56  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: 3333.33333333
14:59:10  <planetmaker> Rubidium, the acceleration is the actual parameter I set. And that's 3.3 km/s^2
14:59:16  <planetmaker> and 1g = 10m/s^2
14:59:31  <planetmaker> and yes ^
15:00:17  <Flygon> Okay, it's hit 2AM
15:00:23  <Flygon> You guys are absolutely wonderful
15:00:28  <Flygon> G'night!
15:00:32  <planetmaker> sleep well
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15:02:54  <NGC3982> planetmaker: Jeez.
15:03:17  <NGC3982> Wait, this is only software?
15:03:30  * Rubidium finally found his thinking error
15:03:40  <NGC3982> "load of a few kg" in 10m/s^2 is a bit of a umpf.
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17:34:43  <Wolf01> hello o/
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17:45:28  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24625 /trunk/src/lang (3 files in 2 dirs) (2012-10-24 17:45:18 UTC)
17:45:29  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:30  <DorpsGek> latvian - 24 changes by Parastais
17:45:31  <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 17 changes by jhsoby
17:45:32  <DorpsGek> tamil - 196 changes by aswn
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17:48:41  <Simonn> http://nohost.be/nl/upload3.png expansion
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18:06:38  <Pinkbeast> Are you still building that mad gigantic station?
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18:11:05  <Simonn> yes
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20:21:36  <__ln__> silencio
20:21:55  <peter1138> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9emjalsOsE
20:27:53  <NGC3982> Haha
20:28:01  <NGC3982> That was a fantastic version.
20:28:20  <NGC3982> Man, that track was litteraly ezploded.
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20:49:41  <frosch123> night
20:49:41  * andythenorth is on a British Army diet
20:49:44  <andythenorth> tea with sugar
20:49:46  <andythenorth> bye Fremen
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20:49:53  <andythenorth> gah wrong autocomplete :P
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20:55:06  <Fremen> mehe
20:55:30  <andythenorth> sorry :)
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21:16:44  <Terkhen> good night
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21:49:23  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:55:47  <Simonn> I'm really starting to get this openttd trains thing
21:55:47  <Simonn> :p
21:56:01  <Simonn> make my network, add a bit more trains, check for bottlenecks, add a bit more , ...
21:56:04  <Simonn> till its just right
21:56:50  <Rubidium> I just detected an infinite loop in your logic
21:57:24  <Simonn> yeah the network is over capacity now
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23:25:42  <BadBrett> helloooo
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