Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:03:03 <Kitty> drac_boy: timber plantation 00:03:07 <Kitty> ? 00:03:42 <drac_boy> that sounds better, thanks for helping kitty :) 00:04:54 <Kitty> np 00:06:05 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:06:16 <Flygon_> drac_boy: I still find 3rd rail hard to understand 00:06:18 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 00:06:25 <Flygon> Seems too dangerous :P 00:06:38 <drac_boy> at least I guess 'food' and 'good' are generic enough to encompass a wide variety of things with the least cargo slots needed 00:07:04 <drac_boy> eg wood becomes tables/houseframe/etc but its still only just 'GOOD' to the game ;) 00:07:13 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B00A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:32 <drac_boy> flygon heh well 3rd rail works best for low-medium speed high capacity pax alone obviously .. and 2cc has a good example of that afaik 00:07:46 <drac_boy> but otherwise yeah its better to avoid it in favour of overhead which is so much more common out in the open 00:08:42 <Flygon> 2CC also lacks Comeng trains. Basically the same thing as 3rd rail subway trains, but overhead wire and better top-speed :p 00:09:22 <Flygon> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_uL8JOJonTkc/TCbgESpOb7I/AAAAAAAAA5A/xtLem7QvjY8/s1600/c432m.jpg 00:09:44 <drac_boy> heh flygon well I'm sure that if it was unique enough the 2cc people could look into adding it if you asked? :) 00:09:47 <Flygon> Shame, if it got into 2CC, it probably wouldn't be given the 3rd rail-type passenger loading speeds 00:09:56 <drac_boy> ha 00:10:07 <drac_boy> well yeah I don't know about that part :-s 00:10:09 <Flygon> Even moreso with Red Rattlers 00:10:18 <drac_boy> umm Red Rattlers? strange name 00:10:21 <Flygon> Which had doors on practically EVERY SINGLE PART of the carriage 00:10:23 <drac_boy> sounds like they are too "loose" 00:10:31 <V453000> I think if you draw them, the "2cc people" will happily add them :) 00:10:32 <drac_boy> oh...too many doors 00:10:34 <drac_boy> heh 00:10:41 <Flygon> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ijOg_ZMDY1o/UITtZCacleI/AAAAAAAALts/bZ65LKFu2_4/s1600/01Rattler.jpg 00:10:52 <drac_boy> flygon I know uk nicknamed certain early units as Thumper .. because of all the doors thumping shut 00:10:57 <drac_boy> or thats what I recall 00:11:06 <Flygon> They're called Red Rattlers, because the type lasted from 1880 to 1985 (with electrification @ 1925ish) 00:11:12 <drac_boy> that was before they started using sliding doors 00:11:22 <drac_boy> flygon oh heh ok 00:11:26 <Flygon> Would Red Rattlers have the highest unloading/loading speed in the game? :p 00:11:38 <drac_boy> hi V453000? 00:11:44 <Flygon> Heya V453 00:11:56 <Flygon> drac_boy: Rattlers had sliding doors 00:12:17 <Flygon> There was a related type that had Swing Doors, though. They were creatively called Swing Door trains. 00:12:27 <drac_boy> flygon heh 00:12:45 <Flygon> But, yeah 00:13:04 <Flygon> I can understand why 3rd rail may sometimes be used 00:13:14 <Flygon> But the disadvantages just don't seem worth it 00:13:19 <drac_boy> hm anyway finished looking at tt-foundry .. found two small ideas to think about it 00:13:32 <drac_boy> flygon be thankful you do not have to deal with 3rd+4th rails :P 00:13:40 * drac_boy points you to london if you're confused on that remark 00:13:45 <Flygon> Depends 00:13:52 <Flygon> We have had tracks with 4 rails 00:14:04 <Flygon> Because of the gauge problem... especially in South Australia 00:14:39 <drac_boy> I don't recall but I think it was to do with two rails for normal (and probably as ground) .. third rail was positive voltage .. and fourth rail was negative voltage 00:14:46 <Flygon> Victoria was luckier... our Narrow Gauge lines were independant from the rest of the system, and all the stock was designed to be run on BG for transfers anyway 00:14:50 <drac_boy> someone from uk probably can explain it better 00:15:02 <Flygon> Yeah, I've read up on the UK system, otherwise 00:15:07 <Flygon> A surprisingly clever system 00:15:14 <Flygon> Shame they didn't make it overhead+3rd rail 00:15:52 <Flygon> I imagine that would've been less of a pain 00:17:22 <Flygon> V453000: I'll save up money, and comission artists at some point. I am quite a big fan of Victorian trains, and the Victorian ones are the best documented in Australia. Most OpenTTDers from Australia appear to be New South Welsh, however. Victoria's mortal enemy. 00:17:31 <Flygon> My pixel art skills aren't good :P 00:17:50 <V453000> my drawing wasnt good at all either when I started :) 00:18:03 <V453000> I dont say it is phenomenal in any way as of now, but ... satisfactory :) 00:18:15 <Flygon> I know the feeling 00:18:17 <drac_boy> flygon btw did australia ever have special "gauge wagons"? basically mounting the different buffer locations between two cuts of wagons from both gauges? 00:18:22 <V453000> also 2cc set uses an extremely basic technique of drawing so it is really easy to contribute 00:19:15 <Flygon> drac_boy: As in, you load a wagon onto a wagon that's the right gauge? Or different gauge wagons towing each other on their native gauges? 00:19:25 <Flygon> V453: I'll need to look into it, then x3 00:19:40 <Flygon> But for now 00:19:48 <Flygon> I gotta do a different artwork for someone x3 00:20:08 <drac_boy> Flygon I meant the latter 00:20:21 * drac_boy is too busy with my own artworks as well :-> 00:20:42 <Flygon> drac_boy does artwork? 00:20:44 <Flygon> Ah 00:20:52 <Flygon> I have no idea if that was practiced historially 00:21:00 <Flygon> It probably WAS done, though 00:21:15 <Flygon> With chain link couplers, anyway 00:21:38 <Flygon> But we honestly prefer just switching bogies 00:22:00 <Flygon> But I can't give a definitive answer 00:22:41 <drac_boy> mm 00:24:01 <drac_boy> flygon what do you think of rack tracks as in having a low top speed but on the other hand can go straight up a long mountain without being stuck at 1-2kph which is what happens to normal trains otherwise? 00:24:53 <Flygon> Doesn't seem too odd 00:25:03 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:25:03 <Flygon> We have a rack railroad here that goes 80km/h 00:25:06 <Flygon> In New South Wales 00:25:12 <Flygon> Some sorta ski resort 00:25:57 <V453000> Flygon: small example :P https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/animalz.png 00:26:16 <Flygon> Gotta brb a sec 00:26:33 <drac_boy> flygon I was thinking about in-game ... could be interesting for arctic maps ... simple straight route up the long hill than trying to find a long low-grade route 00:26:49 <drac_boy> but its only a thought yet .. other things need to be finished first 00:27:21 *** rymate_1234 [~rymate@host86-140-194-153.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:33:24 <Flygon> V453000: NUTS? 00:33:32 <V453000> of course what else 00:33:39 <Flygon> drac_boy: Ah, gotcha 00:33:45 <Flygon> V453000: Touche 00:33:54 <V453000> :p 00:36:34 <V453000> the maglev is probably the nicest :) http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/images/a/a0/ProZone20.png 00:38:13 <drac_boy> I'm probably not knowing where to look but where do you define how sensitive a cargo is? 00:38:41 <Flygon> I could never understand some of those junctions :p 00:39:07 <V453000> eventally https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/magfast4light.png :) 00:39:28 <V453000> what do you mean sensitive? 00:39:45 <V453000> well the junctions are just ... connections from everywhere to everywhere :p 00:39:53 <Flygon> Seems crowded 00:39:59 <Flygon> I've never handled crowded networks well x3 00:40:09 <drac_boy> well something like lumber wouldn't care for slow train over long distance and still pay some $ for it ... but passengers are another matter ... 300 tiles at 10kph and I'm sure they wouldn't pay you a dollar worth :) 00:40:17 <drac_boy> thats what I'm wondering about 00:40:37 <V453000> well that is what the cargo payment rate graph is for 00:41:01 <V453000> though there are some extra notes like which cargoes can decay completely, like food or fruit(I think) 00:41:09 <V453000> see the openttd wiki for those things 00:44:33 <drac_boy> hm it just points back to the newgrf wiki .. only thing I could find was 'penalty times and price factor' under action0/cargo which did not seem to say much 00:50:06 <drac_boy> I'll just find out some another day :p for now I'm just classing things from A to F piority even if thats not quite correct 00:55:01 <drac_boy> interesting enough I only give passengers a B :-) 01:01:52 <drac_boy> V453000 what else are you going to come up with for your nutty grf? heh 01:14:22 <drac_boy> btw a completely decayed food train would be interesting....does it even earn a dollar or two for all that "free" manure? 01:14:25 <drac_boy> heh 01:14:47 *** Mister_Argent [~kvirc@c-98-226-56-20.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This is the Quit Message. It shows up when i've quit KVIrc, for whatever reason!] 01:15:36 <Flygon> Siple 01:15:38 <Flygon> Simple* 01:15:46 <Flygon> Make a manure cargo 01:17:06 <drac_boy> tell him that ... not me :P 01:17:14 <drac_boy> heh 01:18:07 <drac_boy> flygon btw it would had been interesting to try present a generic australia trainset grf to players ... and watch them complain about breakage of gauges .... can you say "ummm ops?" ;) 01:19:43 <Flygon> it stops being a problem by 1930, really 01:20:02 <Flygon> Except for Narrow Gauge trains, all trains were designed with Standard Gauge in mind 01:20:09 <Flygon> Problem is, converting a pre-existing network :) 01:20:28 <Flygon> (all standard gauge stock could easily be 1600mm too... the gauge is close enough. :)) 01:20:49 <Flygon> (problem is... the broad guage network had a SMALLER loading gauge) 01:22:35 <drac_boy> "broad" and "smaller" at same time? thats rather weird 01:22:49 <Flygon> Ehh 01:22:53 <Flygon> It's... hard to explain 01:22:55 <Flygon> Basically 01:23:09 <Flygon> The first railways in Australia were the Victorian/Irish broad gauge ones 01:23:28 <Flygon> And were probably built with the expectation of a British style railway system 01:24:01 <Flygon> New South Wales built theirs later... and I can only assume went with a larger loading gauge for the sake of... *shrug* 01:24:20 <Flygon> Point is, NSW has Double Decker trains (the first DD EMU's in the world, in fact), Victoria doesn't 01:25:29 <drac_boy> mm I see 01:26:27 <Flygon> Though, people keep discussing locomotive hauled DD carriages for here... which would actually work perfectly for our loading gauge (it's actually not all that small, but just small enough to create problems) 01:26:55 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:26:59 <drac_boy> I've always wondered if doubledeck could work on something like metre gauge providing the ballast was kept in good conditions? 01:27:02 <drac_boy> what you think anyway 01:27:08 <Flygon> We did actually import a DD EMU here, built to the loading gauge. A modified Tangara set. 01:27:24 <Flygon> drac_boy: It better balance itself well :p 01:27:54 <Flygon> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Melbourne_4D_Train.jpg Small loading gauge DD EMU 01:29:23 <drac_boy> well I'm just wondering if I should provide doubledeck or just simply high-capacity bogie coaches instead 01:29:32 <drac_boy> so...... :) 01:29:48 <Flygon> High-capacity bogie coaches? 01:32:14 <drac_boy> narrow seats in 2+2 or even 2+3 fashion ... bags have to go in overhead rack (no space to put anywhere else heh) .. one single set of doors per car ... basically put in as many passengers as we can :p 01:32:24 <drac_boy> heh 01:33:09 <Flygon> Oh 01:33:14 <Flygon> Seems uncomfortable 01:33:20 <Flygon> To increase capacity, remove seats 01:36:43 <Flygon> drac_boy: What'd be a real marvel is triple decker coaches 01:36:50 <Flygon> Or: We get an excuse to use Brunel Gauge 01:37:29 <drac_boy> flygon heh well you better not go to japan then :P 01:37:44 <Flygon> Japan has TD coaches? 01:38:40 <drac_boy> they can fit a lot of people into each single car in their commuter emus ... sometimes in the past this went far enough that station hands had to help "push" people in to make the doors willingly close :) 01:38:58 <drac_boy> how's that for a true human sardine? ;) 01:39:51 <Flygon> We have a similar game here 01:40:02 <Flygon> Except without the pushers 01:40:24 <Flygon> Except, it's a problem here, because we have too many seats :p 01:40:54 <Flygon> But, yeah... they have station pushers in China, tooo 01:42:02 <Flygon> http://images.theage.com.au/2009/05/11/513092/420-train-surfer.jpg When Melbourne trains get full 01:42:37 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 01:42:58 <drac_boy> who the hell is that on front? :-s 01:43:05 <Flygon> drac_boy: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v101/adrock2xander/Image051.jpg Why we abandoned Connex 01:43:16 <Flygon> Also, it's at the back of a train 01:43:24 <Flygon> Some teenager illegally train surfing 01:43:45 <Flygon> It's probably safer than him surfing at the top of a Comeng... too easy to get 1500 volt'd to death 01:45:36 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@p4FEDCA9C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Sturmi] 01:45:41 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-189.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 01:45:58 <drac_boy> flygon mm go to africa .. theres people sitting on top of the emu services just as badly as with the diesel trains 01:46:13 <drac_boy> at least noone even sits by the pantograph frames which .... is a good thing perhaps 01:46:41 <Flygon> Yeah 01:46:47 <Flygon> I've got a friend from South Africa 01:47:22 <Flygon> At least the South African trains are probably somewhat idiotproofed... the Comeng and Hitachi sets aren't so idiotproof 01:47:31 <Flygon> Too much naked electronics 01:47:37 <drac_boy> heh 01:47:57 <Flygon> At least nobody's tried surfing on top of a VLocity... yet 01:48:15 <Flygon> They'd probably choke to death from the fumes before they hit a bridge @ 160km/h 01:51:34 <Flygon> Either way, when surfing does happen here, it's frontpage news 01:54:25 <drac_boy> btw flygon http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/nl/trams/historic/2_RSTM_NSM.jpg one unusual steam tram :) 01:54:33 <drac_boy> high floor .. probably from hiding the pistons underneath 01:54:53 <drac_boy> and look at that cap smokestack too 01:55:19 <drac_boy> too bad I'm not inclined on one of these because of the ugly wires getting in the way on the tram track tiles :| 01:55:25 <drac_boy> heh 01:57:27 <Flygon> You can set the wires to invisible 01:57:49 <drac_boy> maybe but then what about being able to run electric on other routes tho? 01:57:53 <drac_boy> so..meh 01:58:06 <Flygon> Well 01:58:10 <Flygon> We need more roadtypes, then 01:58:18 <Flygon> And diagonal roadtypes @_@" 01:58:53 <drac_boy> heh flygon actually diagonal wouldn't work so well unless you do a totally new rv pathing code which I doubt is on anyone's list now 01:59:06 <drac_boy> because right now rvs only can count in straight tiles 02:04:13 <Flygon> Well 02:04:23 <Flygon> Let's get the funding to pay for this stuff then :B 02:04:46 <Flygon> If I win the lottery, ,000 is allocated towards new pathfinding >_>" 02:05:08 <drac_boy> heh have fun with that? :) 02:05:35 <Flygon> And ,000 is allocated to a NewGRF that contains every single Australian train and tram 02:05:40 <drac_boy> heh heh 02:05:51 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d086699.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 02:05:53 <Flygon> Including the Swedish X2000 tilt train that was run on Diesel testing in New South Wales 02:06:07 <drac_boy> I could use posting 0 or something to have most of the needed nfo codes here made for me by someone else? :) 02:06:58 <drac_boy> so flygon what are you even doing now anyway? 02:10:19 <Flygon> Making lunch 02:10:23 <Flygon> I hope I finished the commish 02:12:27 <drac_boy> ok :) 02:14:12 <drac_boy> me I'm just trying to balance out the locomotive list a bit here... 02:14:22 <drac_boy> kinda a bit hard to do I guess 02:14:56 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:20:25 <drac_boy> flygon about triple deck, if you want to do that you really need broad gauge (or even hilter's gauge if it had became real) to get the extra width space inside to have the seperate spiral stairway for the upper deck :) 02:20:44 <Flygon> A spiral stairway? 02:20:47 <Flygon> Seems excessive 02:20:51 <Flygon> I'd have used the diagonal method 02:21:20 <drac_boy> so basically outside end door heads straight to upper ... inside end door heads by L stairway to middle deck .. then the middle door is for the lower deck 02:21:34 <drac_boy> flygon... diagonal would take up more space to get up two floors .. so spiral seem better there 02:21:42 <drac_boy> but thats just my thought on it 02:22:00 <Flygon> Wouldn't diagonal save width space? 02:22:03 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-92-107.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 02:22:16 <drac_boy> diagonal wastes space on the corners tho .. where spiral does away with that? 02:22:34 <Flygon> Eh, I guess 02:22:46 <Flygon> Either way, I gotta go soon x: 02:22:51 <Flygon> Gotta feed the horse ect 02:22:59 <drac_boy> mind you some of the earlier usa dome cars did use spiral stairs to squeeze out another seat row 02:23:04 <drac_boy> heh ok np 02:23:07 <drac_boy> see you another time :) 02:25:38 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:26:18 <Flygon> Okay, must go 02:26:20 <Flygon> Have fun, peeps 02:26:27 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 02:48:25 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.96.125.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:53:27 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 02:57:34 *** Markk [mark@rikskriminalpolisen.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:06 *** Markk [~mark@rikskriminalpolisen.com] has joined #openttd 03:08:20 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 03:22:29 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:23:14 *** Markk [~mark@rikskriminalpolisen.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:33:38 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 03:36:01 *** Markk [mark@rikskriminalpolisen.com] has joined #openttd 03:42:29 *** Markk [mark@rikskriminalpolisen.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:54:25 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67F59.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4B49.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:59:56 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 06:36:25 *** chester_ [~chester@95-26-50-210.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 06:51:34 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:09:25 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:41:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:49:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:11:13 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 08:11:16 *** rymate_1234 [~rymate@host86-140-194-153.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:20:25 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 08:22:10 *** rymate_1234 is now known as rymate1234 08:37:18 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@p4FEDCA9C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:44:28 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:44:31 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:48:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:49:19 <Alberth> and moin in general :) 08:51:19 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:51:28 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.78.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:08 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:52:54 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.30] has joined #openttd 08:53:23 <andythenorth> bonsoir 08:54:03 <planetmaker> good morning 08:54:18 <Eddi|zuHause> *gÀhn 08:54:54 <planetmaker> well... the last two weeks I always was up at least three hours by now ;-) 08:55:03 <planetmaker> thus I woke up surprisingly early for Sunday :-P 08:57:00 <rymate1234> gah 08:57:12 <rymate1234> OpenTTD, I know those road vehicles aren't profiting 08:57:17 <rymate1234> and I don't really care 08:57:42 <rymate1234> especially when I have trains making £700,000 a year 08:58:09 <planetmaker> RV can be pretty profitable. Depends on usage, though :-) 08:59:32 <rymate1234> well 08:59:38 <rymate1234> these are short bus routes 08:59:54 <rymate1234> I keep them around out of laziness 08:59:56 <planetmaker> short => unprofitable. as usual ;-) 09:00:05 <planetmaker> try short train routes 09:00:09 <planetmaker> same thing 09:01:23 <rymate1234> i know 09:01:51 <Flygon> Road vehicles are useless, except for ONE thing 09:02:01 <Flygon> City ratings 09:02:13 <rymate1234> is there a way to turn off the profit messages? 09:02:20 <Flygon> Yes 09:02:55 <rymate1234> k 09:03:45 <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/PublicServer:Archive_-_Games_221_-_230#gameid_229 RV are doing well :-) 09:05:13 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:05:16 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 09:10:06 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-58-166.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:16:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 09:19:57 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host115-94-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:20:09 <Wolf01> hello o/ 09:20:46 <Alberth> moin Wolf01 09:21:18 <planetmaker> hi wolf 09:24:10 <rymate1234> just wasted £50,000,000 by founding a new town 09:24:10 <rymate1234> :> 09:24:37 <Alberth> you can disable founding new towns, you know ;) 09:25:02 <planetmaker> founding a town is a voluntary action anyway... it's not like it happens by accident really, I'd say 09:25:22 <planetmaker> or can one mis-click in a list? 09:25:35 <planetmaker> (not sure where it exactly is initiated right now) 09:27:34 <Alberth> right, NML does not do generic callbacks was the conclusion the previous time 09:28:13 <rymate1234> I did it on purpose 09:28:22 <rymate1234> but the damn thing ended up as a small village 09:28:24 <rymate1234> ¬_¬ 09:28:37 <planetmaker> of course 09:28:57 <planetmaker> you can't build metropolis from scratch. Now nurture it to become a metropolis 09:29:32 <rymate1234> I am 09:29:54 <planetmaker> if it goes too slowly, change town growth speed to max ;-) 09:30:08 <planetmaker> but mind, it'll affect all towns and villages 09:30:32 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A19A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:30:35 <rymate1234> Its already at fast 09:31:14 <planetmaker> there's also 'very fast' ;-) 09:32:51 <Flygon> Build 'The Cloning Vats' secret project 09:32:56 <Flygon> Pop boom every year 09:33:27 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 09:39:50 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:49:02 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 10:02:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:03:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 10:04:02 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:27:52 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-185-142.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 10:28:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:36:28 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 10:44:06 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 10:44:25 <chester_> men, who could compile for win64? another guy wants to play 10:45:29 <Eddi|zuHause> you can run win32 binaries on win64 10:46:15 <chester_> ok wait i'll tell him 10:46:17 <Eddi|zuHause> (it might actually run faster as well, but test results are scarce and inconclusive) 10:52:25 <rymate1234> Flygon, Cloning Vats? 10:52:40 <Flygon> Alpha Centauri reference 10:52:53 <chester_> yes, he's happy too now) 11:03:06 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:04:29 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:19:21 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20:05 <rymate1234> ah 11:23:02 <rymate1234> shitty, small bus bus service that runs often = town growth 11:23:42 <Bad_Brett> anyone knows what numbers the bridge sprites have? or where i can find them? http://games.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/authors/script.php?feature=spritesbyfile&q=ogfx1_base 11:23:51 <Bad_Brett> those are not working 11:29:42 <rymate1234> why are RV's so suicidal 11:30:35 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 11:30:36 *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 11:31:00 *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31:19 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-189.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: for the love of god this is not safe for work] 11:32:57 <Eddi|zuHause> rymate1234: try http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=46091 :) 11:39:46 <rymate1234> Eddi|zuHause, I'm fine 11:39:58 <rymate1234> its not my RV's which are suicidal thankfully 11:42:39 <Eddi|zuHause> rymate1234: that's even worse... 11:43:42 *** roadt_ [~roadt@223.240.107.68] has joined #openttd 11:44:34 <rymate1234> why? 11:47:19 *** Markk [mark@rikskriminalpolisen.com] has joined #openttd 11:49:48 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 11:52:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:8cf4:7ad6:30ad:10b2] has joined #openttd 11:53:46 *** roadt__ [~roadt@60.168.91.153] has joined #openttd 11:56:48 *** roadt_ [~roadt@223.240.107.68] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:00:40 <Terkhen> hello 12:08:43 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009b26.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:08:59 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:09:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:8cf4:7ad6:30ad:10b2] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:11:29 <frosch123> yay, problem solved! if ottd occassionally powers down your computer, just replace your graphics card :) 12:12:04 <Sturmi> new ottd feature? 12:12:37 <frosch123> yeah, i liked the suggestion 12:12:41 <Terkhen> frosch123: those things sound completely related to each other, yes 12:13:12 <Terkhen> maybe we unknowingly prepared OpenTTD to shut down computers to force people to replace their graphics cards 12:13:49 <frosch123> Terkhen: a few weeks ago someone reported an issue on the german forums, that after a few hours of running ottd it would just power down his computer. it only happens with ottd, nothing else :) 12:14:02 <frosch123> i really would enjoy coding something like that :p 12:14:05 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:14:07 <frosch123> playnig too long? -> poweroff :p 12:14:39 <Terkhen> "We have detected that you spend too much time procrastinating with OpenTTD, your savegame will be deleted and OpenTTD will close now" 12:14:56 <frosch123> exactly :) 12:17:08 <rymate1234> woot 12:17:15 <rymate1234> two towns founded 12:17:32 <rymate1234> "Ryville" and "Ryvilledon" 12:17:46 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:18:22 <Terkhen> they sound like pokemons 12:18:46 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 12:18:53 <drac_boy> hi 12:19:25 <rymate1234> hi 12:19:33 <Terkhen> hi drac_boy, how are you? :P 12:20:02 <drac_boy> doing ok, you? 12:20:11 <MNIM> Terkhen: would sure help me 12:20:19 <MNIM> and not just for OTTD 12:20:58 <Terkhen> MNIM: :P 12:21:18 <MNIM> I am a TERRIBLE procrastinator. 12:21:29 <MNIM> in fact, Im procrastinating right now! weeee~ 12:21:34 <rymate1234> lol 12:23:47 <Terkhen> but today is sunday 12:23:56 <Rubidium> sun? where? 12:24:33 <Terkhen> now that you mention it, nowhere 12:24:43 <Terkhen> it may be above all those clouds, but I cannot assure that 12:24:50 *** mirc-appe [~mirc-appe@h-235-187.a147.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 12:24:56 *** mirc-appe is now known as NGC3982_2 12:24:58 <drac_boy> any of you know if objects only can be picked manually or can they change sprite at placement time depending on neighbouring tiles? 12:24:59 <NGC3982_2> Morning. 12:25:15 <drac_boy> hi NGC3982_2 12:25:56 <NGC3982_2> I'm having some difficulties with autorenew and old vehicles. 12:26:01 <NGC3982_2> http://i.imgur.com/Pyg7I.png 12:26:26 <NGC3982_2> The train is stationary (though started) in the depot. I guess it's the reliability of 0% that keeps it from running. 12:26:32 <NGC3982_2> How do i get it to autorenew? 12:26:47 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:26:57 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982_2: press the "replace" button? 12:27:19 <NGC3982_2> Where is that button? 12:27:31 <Eddi|zuHause> one of the buttons on the right of the depot window 12:27:40 <NGC3982_2> Oh, that one with the arrow? 12:27:44 <NGC3982_2> AH. 12:27:46 <NGC3982_2> I see. 12:27:58 <NGC3982_2> Well, that was easy. Thanks :). 12:28:26 <rymate1234> hey guys 12:28:42 <rymate1234> are these messages being sent? 12:28:49 <Eddi|zuHause> no 12:28:53 <rymate1234> crap 12:29:09 <drac_boy> reason I had that question was because I was wondering if I only need one object for multiply connected directions or I have to do each one manually 12:29:15 <drac_boy> heh Eddi|zuHause 12:30:11 *** NGC3982_2 [~mirc-appe@h-235-187.a147.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 12:30:35 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: objects can check adjacent tiles 12:30:53 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: look at the "fenced area" in opengfx+ 12:31:23 <drac_boy> allright, just wanted to be sure. was thinking I had found the callback but wasn't sure if it was for that or not 12:31:28 <rymate1234> opengfx+? 12:32:08 <Eddi|zuHause> rymate1234: a set of generic newgrfs in opengfx-style 12:32:21 <rymate1234> ah 12:32:52 <drac_boy> hm looks like I'll have a rather long objects list ... basically repeating different compass directions 12:33:04 <drac_boy> at least thankfully the scenario editor menu would not be as this long :-> 12:33:11 <hnk> can you play the game with 32bit gfx now? 12:33:18 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: you can do directions with "views" 12:33:33 <Eddi|zuHause> hnk: yes 12:33:40 <hnk> is it any good 12:33:41 <hnk> = 12:33:43 <hnk> ? 12:33:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hnk: try zbase 12:34:04 <hnk> downloadable from inside the game? 12:34:11 <Eddi|zuHause> not yet, i believe 12:34:22 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: why not? 12:34:26 <hnk> interesting though 12:34:26 <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause as it is now I'm listing eg: poles north, poles south, poles north/west, etc ... but as I am assuming it will only show up just as one 'poles' entry in the editor alone 12:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no idea 12:34:46 <Eddi|zuHause> haven't really followed it 12:35:09 <Rubidium> maybe you should start believing something else ;) 12:35:16 <drac_boy> heh 12:35:17 <Rubidium> http://bananas.openttd.org/en/base/ 12:35:28 <Eddi|zuHause> WE WILL NEVER ABANDON OUR BELIEFS!! 12:35:44 <Eddi|zuHause> go away you heretic! 12:36:07 <Eddi|zuHause> /gtg 12:38:11 <Rubidium> hnk: what I meant is: if you OpenTTD is new enough, you should be able to download it from within the game 12:38:41 <hnk> well I think I have the newest 1.2.3 something 12:38:53 <drac_boy> I assume that 'end of life' action 0F basically would let objects "close down" during the requested year just like how an industry can close down and disappear from the map for good? 12:40:49 <Rubidium> hnk: then zbase can be downloaded from within the game 12:44:49 *** rymate_1234 [~rymate@host109-153-46-18.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:45:38 <drac_boy> and other thing was .. if I do set the object flags to have bit 2 value 4 (re that it can be removed) does that mean if the object was in the way of a town's growth the town can remove it as well - not just the player? 12:47:13 <planetmaker> yes 12:47:19 <planetmaker> at least iirc ;-) 12:48:00 <drac_boy> mm thanks 12:50:30 *** rymate1234 [~rymate@host86-140-194-153.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:51:09 <drac_boy> I'm not too sure if theres any plausible reasons for a single object to be 15x15 tiles large but I guess thats only simply the code size limit being stated :) 12:54:21 <drac_boy> planetmaker I'm not sure if I'm remembering it right but whats the difference between hp and kN in-game again? 12:56:18 <frosch123> power and force? 12:57:08 <frosch123> max power is limiting at high speeds, max force is limiting at low speeds 12:57:44 <drac_boy> right ok I wasn't off then 12:58:12 <drac_boy> thanks 12:59:32 <drac_boy> so going by that, adding more kN would had let it start a heavier train and/or climb uphill better in short? 13:03:17 <frosch123> yes 13:03:34 <frosch123> afaik force is only important for speeds < 5km/h or so usually :p 13:03:49 <frosch123> so it basicalyl decides whether a train can start al all :p 13:04:12 <frosch123> i..e it decides about max weight and max hill slope 13:04:36 <Flygon> I wish OpenTTD had variable slopes 13:04:55 <frosch123> the slope is variable, it is just homogeneous :p 13:05:08 <Flygon> Non-homogeneous sloping 13:05:44 <frosch123> anyway, for trains you basically have homogeneous slopes depending on the distance of slopes compared to trainlength 13:06:03 <frosch123> but yeah, i know what you mean :p 13:06:23 <Flygon> But it'd also need a 3D renderer for the heighmapping 13:06:31 <Flygon> Unless you want lots of 2D tiles drawn... 13:06:48 <Flygon> As sensible as a 3D heightmap is 13:07:43 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:11:33 *** RavingManiac_ [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 13:14:13 <drac_boy> frosch123 mm yeah so low hp high kN would be a slow runner but could haul anything uphill ... high hp low kN would be more of a light fast train that may have bit issue with steep slopes .. etc etc 13:14:28 <drac_boy> hi flygon-the-aussie-engineer? :P 13:15:52 <Flygon> Here, the solution to the low kN problem is to add more locomotives :B 13:15:53 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:17:06 <frosch123> drac_boy: you can also consider power as a property of the engine (i.e. how much it can pull), and "force" as a property of the tires and weiget (i.e. when the tired just slip instead of pulling something) 13:17:16 <frosch123> *weight 13:17:26 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.96.125.19] has joined #openttd 13:17:29 <drac_boy> yeah I do know about real locomotives..I was just wondering about the game physics :) 13:17:53 <frosch123> game physics are just that :p 13:18:11 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:18:12 <frosch123> except that the grf actually does not specify a force, but a frictiion coefficient 13:18:21 <frosch123> which ottd multiplies with the engine weight 13:18:41 <drac_boy> flygon some of the early uk accidents were caused by intentionally underpowered trains, even Great Western was sued for this just as well 13:19:12 <Flygon> Victorian Railways/V/Line phased out as many underpowered pass services as possible by 1985 13:19:16 <Flygon> Usually by line closures 13:19:46 <Flygon> The surplus was coupled and used as frieght loco :p 13:20:06 <Flygon> But why would underpowered trains caused accidents? 13:20:17 <frosch123> how can underpowered trains cause accidents? 13:20:27 <frosch123> or do you mean they were not able to brake? 13:20:43 <frosch123> due to too low force 13:21:15 <frosch123> (assuming that the wagons cannot brake themself :s ) 13:22:20 <drac_boy> as I recall one of these particular accident....it was a single goods 0-6-0 used on a lengthy train .. stalled on a grade brakes were set at both ends as they cut the train in two .. but in restarted the locomotive went backward a bit (piston thrust wasn't achived yet) which was enough to knock the second cut into moving downhill on its own .... literally smashed into a moving express train. had some deaths there 13:22:41 <drac_boy> the court accused GW of underpowering their trains more or less 13:22:50 <drac_boy> I think this was even listed on the wiki list let me check 13:22:50 <Flygon> Oh geeze ._. 13:22:55 <Flygon> Wagons had no braking? 13:23:19 <drac_boy> only the brakevan did and it apparently couldn't hold 13:23:24 <drac_boy> one moment anyhow :) 13:23:27 <Flygon> Urg 13:26:11 <frosch123> Flygon: in the very old days you needed pressure for braking, so if the pneumatic broke there was no way to stop. later they were clever enough to reverse it, by requiring pressure to lift the brakes 13:26:35 <Flygon> The diff between vaccum and air brakes? 13:27:46 <frosch123> i believe braking is done using springs, and pressure compresses thoses springs and lifts the braking 13:28:25 <frosch123> no idea about details :) 13:30:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:35:42 <drac_boy> hm I can't find it atm Flygon maybe it was on another uk site 13:35:51 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:03 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.78.30] has joined #openttd 13:36:04 <drac_boy> but yeah .. a 0-6-0 was not enough for the train used ... not surprisingly it stalled on a simple line 13:36:46 <Flygon> It's a shame vaccum propulsion didn't take off 13:37:00 <planetmaker> vacuum propulsion? 13:37:12 <Flygon> An early form of 3rd rail 13:37:15 <Flygon> Brunel designed it 13:37:24 <Flygon> It used a tube between the tracks, with leather seals 13:37:29 <Flygon> And an external pump 13:37:42 <Flygon> The train would be propelled by the vaccum 13:37:44 <Flygon> Basically 13:37:50 <Flygon> The opposite of a steam pressure engine 13:38:12 <planetmaker> got a link? 13:38:16 <Flygon> It failed because the leather seals wore out quickly 13:38:23 <drac_boy> flygon I suspect a major problem would be old brittle leather losing a lot of pressure 13:38:28 <drac_boy> heh :P 13:38:36 <Flygon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_railway 13:39:00 <Flygon> It got speeds of up to around 80 miles, iirc 13:39:56 <drac_boy> another thing that seem good on paper but had problem in real life as far as I recall was a waterway tram .. basically it looked like a short observation deck mounted onto steel flanges .. and the rails were actually underwater 13:40:11 <Flygon> ... 13:40:12 <Flygon> ...what 13:40:15 <drac_boy> eventually the water forces twisted the gauge out of alignment too often to finally write the project off 13:40:34 <Flygon> Too hard to use steel sleepers? 13:40:56 <frosch123> in school we built a vacuum cannon :) 13:41:54 <frosch123> we could shoot table tennis balls over 20 m or so :p 13:41:56 <Flygon> How does that work? 13:42:09 <frosch123> destroying them if they hit a wall 13:42:26 <Flygon> ...now I wanna build a steam cannon 13:42:29 <Flygon> Except it's prolly illegal 13:42:42 <Flygon> Need boiler certification 13:42:55 <frosch123> Flygon: you have a pipe and put a ball into it which fits closely into it 13:43:14 <frosch123> then you put some plates on each end and remove the air from the pipe 13:43:27 <frosch123> the vacuum hols the plates at the ends 13:43:45 <frosch123> then you take a hammer and quickly remove the plate from the end where the ball is 13:43:50 <drac_boy> think I found it but strangely it must be low tide or something http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f29/nickcrown/Daddylonglegs1_zps41e1139f.jpg 13:44:04 <frosch123> the air floods the pipe, moving the ball in front of it 13:44:10 <drac_boy> looks like they used trolley electrification to power it above the water level apparently 13:44:25 <MNIM> heh 13:44:28 <frosch123> it blasts the plate from the other side, and the ball continues flying 13:44:41 <MNIM> basically a moving beach observation deck 13:45:21 <Flygon> drac_boy: What a terrible location for it 13:45:41 <Flygon> frosch123: That is... really smart o.o 13:46:15 <Flygon> Needlessly complicated and not entirely practical (though, I can imagine some very important uses...) 13:46:22 <Flygon> But really cool :) 13:46:34 <frosch123> there are various videos on yt 13:46:42 <frosch123> though i do not see a really nice one 13:47:24 <MNIM> hmmmh 13:47:50 <Flygon> All my simple mind wraps around is steam pressure cannons :p 13:47:51 <MNIM> I could imagine it being used as a missile launching mechanism in submarines, though imagine the water hammer power on that! 13:47:51 <drac_boy> btw I had a look at the callbacks and train actions but .. where can I state how slow/fast the cargo will be loaded/unloaded per ticks? 13:48:17 <andythenorth> unloading speed prop 13:48:19 <andythenorth> action 0 13:48:25 <Flygon> Doesn't help that my friends and I tried to design steam cannons... for pre-1AD 13:48:37 <andythenorth> if you're looking in nfo, it's on the page for 'vehicle props' rather than 'train props' 13:48:53 <Flygon> It somehow extrapolated into us designing a greek/roman electricity grid powered by viaducts 13:49:15 <Flygon> The main difficulty established was teaching them electromagnetism, and getting the materials :p 13:49:55 <Flygon> And that materials readily available were terrible 13:50:18 <drac_boy> oh right, not sure why I didn't think of that one. thanks andythenorth I found it at bottom of http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Vehicles 13:50:37 <andythenorth> drac_boy: I've had the same problem :) 13:50:37 <Flygon> If anything, we somehow concluded it'd be easier to build electric tramways in 50BC than steam traction... 13:50:44 <andythenorth> drac_boy but really, why not just use nml? 13:50:48 <Flygon> Though, I reckon Magic Potion traction'd win out :) 13:51:35 <MNIM> Flygon: that's actually fairly logical... 13:51:55 <Flygon> As in, that the electric tramways would be easier to create? 13:52:10 <MNIM> for high-pressure steam boilers you need high-strength steel, which they didn't have (much) at the time 13:52:44 *** RavingManiac_ [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:08 <MNIM> not to mention you'd need lubricants and fuel too 13:53:11 <Flygon> I should note, we concluded they wouldn't be very powerful (the electric tramways). Voltage is very limited (due to other constraints, such as the amount of electricity generable, and the technology used for modifying voltage) 13:53:24 <Flygon> Lubricants wouldn't be a problem 13:53:33 <Flygon> This IS Greece and Rome we're talking about 13:53:40 <Flygon> :B 13:53:42 <MNIM> in the volumes required for steam traction? 13:53:47 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 13:53:47 <Flygon> Again 13:53:52 <Flygon> This is Greece and Rome 13:54:24 <Flygon> We did discuss Steam Tiremes, however. Using oil burning (would they have been able to get crude oil?) 13:54:41 <Flygon> But determined the weight and sheer danger of it would have made men and oars a more practical option 13:55:02 <Flygon> Steampunk just aint gonna win, this centery 13:55:10 <MNIM> I'm not sure of oil, though there's records of it existing, I am unsure of volumes 13:55:16 <Flygon> Indeed 13:55:27 <Flygon> I know it exists myself 13:55:34 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeolipile 13:55:38 <MNIM> hmmmmh, how about steam turbines? 13:55:40 <Flygon> But volumes mustn't have been high 13:55:48 <Flygon> andythenorth: Yeah, I know of that engine 13:56:00 <Flygon> MNIM: Only really useful for stationary setups 13:56:26 <Flygon> And I imagine the amount of oil needed for a decent electricity generation plant for the era would be excessive... 13:56:32 <Flygon> You'd be better off using coal 13:57:06 <Flygon> Though, at least turbines are much less prone to mechanical failure than other types of steam engines... 13:57:20 <Flygon> Which is an important factor, given our terrible materials 13:57:57 * planetmaker returns from reading which started after Flygon's link :-) Got a bit distracted there, thanks for the link :-) 13:59:04 <MNIM> exactly. Also, steam turbines do work perfectly for marine applications 13:59:35 <Flygon> You're proposing Steam-Electric tiremes? 13:59:44 <MNIM> no, just steam. 13:59:52 <Flygon> Oh, alright 14:00:00 <Flygon> Hmm 14:00:11 <MNIM> biggest problems in these things would be the amount of steel needed and fuel storage 14:00:16 <Flygon> Well, that's gonna need one bigass Tireme, then 14:00:25 <MNIM> oh, I forgot variable pitch propellers. 14:00:44 *** sla_ro|master [slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 14:00:56 <Flygon> And I get the feeling the powers-that-be would prefer a fleet of 50 Tiremes over a giant hulking slow metal monster :p 14:01:00 <Flygon> Variable pitch? 14:01:06 <Flygon> Forgive me, my maratime skills are... bad 14:01:41 <MNIM> ehh. constant speed propellors. basically, your RPM stays the same, which is what you want with turbine engines 14:02:00 <MNIM> instead, to increase/decrease thrust you change the pitch of the blades 14:02:15 <Flygon> Ooooh 14:02:22 <Flygon> Clever 14:02:35 <Flygon> What has me concerned, though 14:02:42 <Flygon> Is the materials durable enough 14:02:54 <Flygon> They barely even had Steel then 14:03:35 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 14:03:43 <MNIM> yeah, that's where most issues would boil down to. can you get strong enough materials? 14:03:45 <drac_boy> andythenorth when is grfcodec and ttdxp altogether going to have nml anyway? 14:03:55 <drac_boy> thats the only way I can sum it up atm 14:04:03 <andythenorth> what is ttdxp? 14:04:05 <Flygon> Either way 14:04:16 <Flygon> Roman steam engine certainly has good theory for on-land 14:04:25 <drac_boy> flygon you remind me of something I had wondered about with steel tho 14:04:49 <drac_boy> how much iron should be needed to make steel .. and what amount of coal to optionally mix with 14:05:02 <Flygon> According to Ragnarok Online 14:05:04 <Flygon> 5 Iron, 1 Coal 14:05:16 <Flygon> Chance depends on LUK, DEX, Skill level, and Job Level 14:05:21 <MNIM> compared to everything else, understandings of physics in that time were comparable with the time just before the steam age, yet their materials 14:05:56 <Flygon> I'd just stick with very thick bronze boilers 14:06:00 <Flygon> Or otherwise avoid steam engine 14:06:08 <Flygon> And just use viaducts to turn turbines 14:06:15 <Flygon> Or even paddewheels 14:06:21 <drac_boy> flygon heh hmm do you think that steel could be made of coal alone or only iron-or-ironandcoal works? 14:07:10 <Flygon> I don't know 14:07:14 <Flygon> But I don't imagine so 14:07:47 <Flygon> Either way, Bronze is more accessable 14:08:03 <Flygon> Reserve the use of Iron to critical componets 14:08:26 <drac_boy> flygon mm I'm trying to figure out how to do the steel mill ratios yet .. I do know that it will require ore and that coal is an optional booster 14:08:28 <Flygon> Importantly 14:08:29 <drac_boy> :) 14:08:40 <Flygon> Did the Romans/Greeks know of Copper? 14:09:07 <MNIM> of course. 14:09:13 <MNIM> copper is older than iron... 14:09:18 <Flygon> That fixes a lot of problems 14:09:36 <Flygon> Copper is, of course, necessary for all of this to happen 14:09:56 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:09:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:10:54 <drac_boy> funny thing is I wondered about aluminium chain but then realized it would just end up too alike to steel on the vector chart so I dropped that idea for now 14:11:01 <drac_boy> but mm we'll just have to see 14:11:06 <Flygon> ...offf the wall question 14:11:11 <Flygon> What is required to make Aluminium? 14:11:15 <MNIM> personally one thing Ive always been thinking about is hydraulic heavy machinery 14:11:26 <Flygon> irl 14:11:26 <MNIM> like water-pressure operated city gates 14:11:31 <drac_boy> flygon bauxite basically I think 14:11:43 <Flygon> What is Bauxite? 14:12:09 <peter1138> aluminium ore 14:12:12 <Flygon> I see 14:12:14 <Flygon> Thanks 14:12:30 <Flygon> TODO: Take Metaluragy classes 14:12:31 <MNIM> basically aluminium salt with a bunch of other irons, from the top of my head? 14:12:43 <MNIM> ehh, metals. 14:12:44 <V453000> drac_boy: if you are doing an industry newGRF, I wrote down some notes and general logic how would I make an industry set ... might be useful if you want something to read http://blog.openttdcoop.org/2012/05/18/next-on-the-list-industries/ 14:12:56 <Flygon> Also, water-pressure operated city walls 14:13:08 <V453000> due to the enormous amount of stuff by brain has farted out around NUTS lately I dont think I will be doing the industry set anytime soon anyway :D 14:13:12 <Flygon> Ties in well with the viaducts of electricity generation :) 14:13:25 <MNIM> Flygon: how would you 'operate' city walls? 14:13:48 <planetmaker> hehe. you start to suffer the usual phenomenon people generally start to suffer when they start to get involved: much more nice things to do than one can actually do, V453000 ;-) 14:13:52 <drac_boy> V453000 heh I was focusing on vehicles+landscape but I had been thinking a bit about matching industries to the side too tho 14:14:01 <MNIM> hmmmh 14:14:11 <drac_boy> we'll see what happens after the trains are in a working beta grf :) 14:14:12 <Flygon> Electric or steam operated propellors that push water hydralics about? 14:14:14 <V453000> pm I have that ever since I released the first version :d 14:14:27 <Flygon> Steam seems less fail-prone here 14:14:27 <MNIM> I can imagine steam-powered catapults, though that could hang on metallurgy again. 14:14:41 <Flygon> Steam-powered catapaults is silly 14:14:49 <Flygon> Steam Cannons are mechanically simpler 14:14:56 <Flygon> And can use crappier metals 14:15:19 <Flygon> But the crappy metals would make it bulky and heavy 14:15:20 <V453000> and I think you can imagine planetmaker when I make some feature specially for some of our game, then motivation goes through the roof :D 14:15:23 <MNIM> I'm thinking about steam only to rewind the catapult 14:15:29 <Flygon> Oooh 14:15:32 <Flygon> Not a bad idea 14:15:33 <MNIM> that way you don't need high pressure 14:15:34 <V453000> also, word order in sentences ftw. 14:15:41 <MNIM> well, less, at least 14:15:59 <Flygon> I thought you meany a hydralic steam catapault 14:16:15 <Flygon> The ones that shoot in a straight line, then suddenly end 14:16:19 <Flygon> And the projectiles go flying 14:16:21 <MNIM> that was my first thought to, but yea, complicated, and requires high pressure 14:16:28 * Flygon nod 14:16:31 <MNIM> not to mention hammering forces. 14:16:48 <Flygon> The hammering forces were what worried me 14:16:59 <drac_boy> V453000 the reason I started making notes on industries tho was because I just did not like the behaviour of this and that ... could not find the cargo kind i wanted from that one .. etc 14:16:59 <Flygon> You'd break apart practically any metal available 14:17:16 <drac_boy> basically it was seeming like that if my own trains were going to be fully useable .. they would need a bit of industry patching 14:17:21 <drac_boy> but we'll see how that goes 14:17:29 <MNIM> hmmmh. 14:17:32 <MNIM> suddenly I wonder 14:17:50 <MNIM> did the greeks/romans know about propellers? 14:18:01 <Flygon> Not propellors persay 14:18:08 <Flygon> But they DID know about corkscrews 14:18:11 <Flygon> (I wonder why :p) 14:18:13 <planetmaker> hehe, V453000 :-) 14:18:35 <MNIM> hmmmh well, it's not a far stretch from corkscrews to props. 14:18:40 <Flygon> They used them to transfer water between planes 14:18:51 <Flygon> And also make decent propellors... 14:19:31 <MNIM> anyway, steam powered aquaduct pumping stations could've made water even more readily available 14:19:32 <Flygon> And are easy to forge 14:19:52 <MNIM> that would've helped civilization ahead for sure 14:19:57 <drac_boy> V453000 what do you think of the four different steel mills present so far? (original, uki, ecs, firs) 14:20:10 <Flygon> Interestingly, Electric-Steam powered corkscrews would have made getting water to the power statioon easier :p 14:20:24 <Flygon> And need less human intervention 14:20:47 <Flygon> Main thing that brought down civilization, though 14:21:03 <Flygon> Wasn't really tech. It was just society collapsing. 14:21:24 <V453000> I think something about each of them ... in total I still prefer the behavior of original industries, uki/PBI as I call it is too restrictive - coal:iore is always wrong to make a fixation to imo. ECS is just strange in general but without the stockpiling and stuff it at least works somewhat. FIRS does it very nicely 14:21:40 <V453000> also, accepting passengers at steel mill is awesomely evil 14:21:40 <MNIM> trouble with power grids in that age, Flygon: what application for it is there that does not require modern tech? 14:21:53 <MNIM> lighting is out, as is small home appliances. 14:22:05 <Flygon> Electric heating 14:22:08 <drac_boy> V453000 heh .. to me the good steel mill would be one that can accept iron alone and yet give gradual (something any original industries lacks heh) steel output 14:22:25 <MNIM> power would be limited to large estates, industries and possibly your electric tram 14:22:31 <Flygon> Survives the winters, and allows for boiled water machines 14:22:53 <Flygon> Let's think of it this way 14:23:02 <Flygon> Electricity can be used as a tool to wow people 14:23:09 <V453000> drac_boy: yeah sure why not, I dont think gradual output is anyhow bad 14:23:16 <MNIM> heh 14:23:25 <Flygon> And scare your enemys 14:23:26 <drac_boy> and V453000 I think the refinery+steelmill accepting passengers was just a little compromise on passengers=workers 14:23:27 <Flygon> It can be a weapon 14:23:33 <V453000> I think something like "expert industries" or some similar newGRF did something like that 14:23:35 <MNIM> vandergraaf generators to wow savages into submission. :P 14:23:40 <Flygon> Imagine raiding a city 14:23:42 <drac_boy> beside the oilrigs even in newgrf industries accepts passengers too so umm yeah 14:23:55 <Flygon> And suddenly the raiding army gets electrified tesla style 14:24:00 <V453000> well without the worker effect on production ratios it is rather evil as passengers obviously get processed :> 14:24:06 <drac_boy> heh 14:24:07 <Flygon> Kills the morale 14:24:18 <Flygon> It can be self-defence mechanism, basically 14:24:52 <Flygon> And, also, re: Heating 14:25:00 <Flygon> Boiled water is clean water 14:25:12 <Flygon> Easy access to boiled water (eg. kettles) is well... a lifesaver 14:25:13 <Flygon> Literally 14:25:13 <drac_boy> anyway V453000 mind if i ask you for comment on certain rail wagons? 14:25:28 <V453000> you can ask me absolutely anything ... guess you figured that already 14:25:28 <MNIM> Flygon: even now electric weaponry is impractical and imprecise, but it certainly could be used as psychological warfare 14:25:31 <drac_boy> heh heh 14:25:33 <V453000> so dont ask to ask :) 14:25:39 <Flygon> MNIM: Exactly 14:26:08 <Flygon> Also, wall mounted steam cannons :D 14:26:14 <MNIM> hahaha 14:26:16 <Flygon> Arbalists are more practicall... but, hey 14:26:17 <drac_boy> well do you think 1920s dated 2-axle wagons on narrow gauge should probably be good for just 50kph .. maybe 60kph .. no faster because otherwise they may have issue derailing due to the rigid axles? 14:26:33 <Flygon> Psycologically, you don't want silent balls of death flying at you 14:26:53 * drac_boy thinks all of this talks coming out of flygon is somewhat over my head already 14:27:08 <V453000> I dont have any opinion on that drac_boy :) sorry, I know nothing about real life trains. All stats I did were to adjust gameplay for optimum 14:27:12 <Flygon> drac_boy: Steam cannons fire silently 14:27:25 <MNIM> oh! oh! electric executions. 14:27:33 <MNIM> stricken down by the gods! 14:27:36 <Flygon> MNIM: I chuckled. Didn't think of that 14:27:50 <MNIM> that'd sure duck up the enemy morale 14:27:58 <Flygon> But you'd get people prefering it over death-via-horse 14:28:02 <drac_boy> heh np V453000 np ... I've decided to mark the 2-axle wagons as 50, bogie one as 60-70 initially then 80+ later on ... still trying to decide about that balancing 14:28:08 <Flygon> And by horse, I mean... *ahem* 14:28:18 <MNIM> Flygon: electric executions can be just as slow and painful :P 14:28:27 <V453000> wagon speed limits are generally a bit pointless tbh 14:28:33 <Flygon> Last I checked, horses aren't slow 14:28:53 <andythenorth> right.... FIRS Machine Shop available 1870. Needs date-sensitive machinery sprites. I have steam crap, then various generations of diesel crap available. 14:28:56 <MNIM> what execution did you think of then? 14:28:59 <andythenorth> Suggest dates please 14:29:00 <drac_boy> V453000 well you don't want to fly cattle around a sharp curve at 100km/h without needing a rather wide gauge :P 14:29:13 <drac_boy> heh heh 14:29:24 <V453000> dont I? 14:29:26 <V453000> news :) 14:29:30 <MNIM> I was thinking of trampling or tearing by horses 14:29:41 <Flygon> The Romans used animals to humiliate humans in various ways in the colloseums, as a form of punishment 14:29:44 <V453000> my cattle goes up to 500kmh and they are particularly excited about it 14:29:44 <drac_boy> andythenorth hard to say .. I mean big business may be able to upgrade early .. but small family owned shops may keep their old machine for a long time till it finally really breaks 14:29:48 <MNIM> oh, like that 14:29:49 <MNIM> well 14:30:04 <Flygon> You'd get people prefering execution via chair :p 14:30:05 <drac_boy> V453000 thats only because you have a *nutty* unrealistic trainset :P 14:30:08 <drac_boy> heh heh 14:30:25 <MNIM> it would of course be for the happy few. 14:30:35 <Flygon> Happy few? 14:30:58 <MNIM> should've added accents? 14:31:07 * rymate_1234 is making a zoomable image of his OpenTTD world 14:31:21 <Flygon> MNIM: They wouldn't survive the torture 14:31:32 <Flygon> That was the point of it, really 14:31:35 <V453000> drac_boy: of course :) 14:31:43 <MNIM> also, methinks that in that age people would prefer heroic death in arena over lightning death by gods. 14:31:44 <Flygon> For being an advanced society, the Romans were quite cruel 14:31:58 <MNIM> ...as if they even had a choice, that is. 14:32:01 <V453000> I am even going to introduce solid liquid in the next version of NUTS :D 14:32:07 <V453000> physics! 14:32:15 <Flygon> Point is 14:32:32 <Flygon> If electricity was to change the lives of the Greeks/Romans 14:32:36 <drac_boy> anyone know of a term to use to describe these hmmm these passenger carrying wagons that have straight bench seats with open sides (basically only have the roof and maybe front/back walls but thats it) 14:32:36 <MNIM> Flygon: cruel, but smart. high-profile enemies and criminals got high-profile deaths, no torturing to death 14:32:39 <Flygon> A LOT of other things would need to change, too 14:32:49 <drac_boy> early trolleys were like that but I still can't figure out a term to describe it 14:32:56 <Flygon> Californian 14:33:00 <V453000> drac_boy: rollercoaster? 14:33:09 <MNIM> cabriolet 14:33:47 <MNIM> Oh god. I'm not exactly a contributing factor today, am i. 14:34:26 <MNIM> discussions about electrified/steamified classic societies and really unhelpful remarks. 14:34:36 <drac_boy> this is what I mean http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_bgDRKmnIMvo/Rf6w6YGT6iI/AAAAAAAAAno/YMNLMAayYr8/s400/98-0.jpg 14:34:48 <drac_boy> somehow I can't think of how to describe that in just a few words 14:34:52 <Flygon> Definitely Californian 14:35:18 <Flygon> Californian trams didn't last long in Melbourne 14:35:21 <Flygon> It rained too much 14:35:43 <drac_boy> heh 'calfornian' has almost no results online :-> 14:36:27 <Flygon> Coliqual term, perhaps? 14:36:45 <drac_boy> maybe 14:37:28 <drac_boy> hm looks like 'open bench trolley' is good enough to work..guess I'm going with that one for now 14:37:31 <Bad_Brett> Hey that may be something for Mod... what year? 14:41:28 <drac_boy> I still think commuter coaches aren't a bad idea...lower top speed but higher capacity from using standing space instead of only seats alone :) 14:44:28 <MNIM> drac_boy: higher loading speeds, too 14:46:03 <drac_boy> yeah MNIM thats what the japan trainset made good uses of ... express trains are ok to load ... but the commuter emus can load a lot in a short time :) 14:46:19 <Flygon> 2CC, too 14:46:30 <Flygon> Except, no non-third rail fast loaders D: 14:46:44 <drac_boy> flygon thats why technically I didn't mention 2cc ^_^ 14:46:51 <MNIM> yeah, that's kinda annoying. 14:46:59 <Flygon> We must implement Comengs :D 14:47:09 <Flygon> And Red Rattlers :D 14:47:34 <MNIM> There should be a newgrf that allows those 2cc metros to run on ordinary (nu)tracks 14:47:49 <rymate_1234> My OpenTTD map :> 14:47:50 <rymate_1234> http://zoom.it/cGLH 14:48:24 <drac_boy> MNIM nothing like having one single busy city station with a mix of so many different services going in and out .. one moment it could be a short sleeper express train on platform 2 .. then a few days later its a long commuter trains on platform 5 .. then a local train coming shortly to use just-emptied platform 5 just as the express finally is almost done 14:48:37 <drac_boy> thats pretty much exactly what the japan grf is nice for heh 14:48:52 <drac_boy> freight side is still decent too ofc 14:49:18 <drac_boy> flygon go find the specs first :P 14:49:31 <Flygon> For the Victorian ones? 14:49:37 <drac_boy> yeah 14:49:45 <drac_boy> specs = maybe someone will think about coding it for you 14:49:50 <drac_boy> thats the only thing I can say atm :) 14:50:00 <Flygon> Easy enough to find 14:50:04 <Flygon> If I can't find stuff myself 14:50:08 <Flygon> vicsig is a greatplace :) 14:50:16 <Flygon> But I'd rather make art, first 14:52:45 <drac_boy> hm geeze how much does carbon weight 14:53:00 <Flygon> Depends on the atom 14:53:15 <drac_boy> oil carbon? :) 14:53:32 * Flygon shrug, hasn't a clue 14:54:43 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 14:56:30 <drac_boy> at least I found a nice table for weight of various dry raw materials :) 14:57:09 <drac_boy> like eg red clay fired bricks are about 2400kg each cubic meter 14:58:56 <drac_boy> just have to finish factoring this into something more sensible to wagon tare limits eventually :p 15:00:25 <drac_boy> oh right one more thing as always... 15:01:06 <drac_boy> I know I've seen it in newgrfs but how many 'loading stages' can you have or its only limited by how much you want to bother drawing them? (like I mean the stages between an all-empty and all-full wagon) 15:01:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:df:2f20:c1d7:4b36] has joined #openttd 15:02:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:df:2f20:c1d7:4b36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:4ce2:bf0d:133a:5715] has joined #openttd 15:02:59 <frosch123> drac_boy: one per cargo unit :) 15:05:11 <andythenorth> bah 15:05:14 <andythenorth> I broke nml :o 15:05:15 <andythenorth> nmlc ERROR: There are not enough registers available to perform all required computations in switch blocks. Please reduce the complexity of your code. 15:05:31 <planetmaker> haha :-) 15:05:34 * planetmaker hugs andythenorth 15:05:40 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:05:49 <andythenorth> never expected that :P 15:06:46 <MNIM> andythenorth: Sounds like you are over the ballmer peak? 15:07:45 <V453000> andythenorth: I reachd something similar some time ago :D 15:07:58 <V453000> except with IDs or something 15:09:15 <planetmaker> V453000, andy is long past that error :-P 15:09:29 <V453000> :DD 15:09:30 <planetmaker> "error" ;-) 15:09:37 <V453000> yeah :) 15:10:23 <frosch123> it's a feature: prevent newgrf authors from writing newgrfs which might cause players to complain about the speed of ottd 15:10:40 <V453000> like some people did yesterday right frosch :p 15:11:17 <frosch123> exactly :) 15:11:19 <drac_boy> frosch123 so technically someone could had drawn 100 different stages from 0% to 100% loaded in each 1% increasement if they really had all the artist time to waste? :P 15:11:44 <frosch123> drac_boy: most vehicles have only 30 units 15:11:45 <andythenorth> meh 15:11:52 <andythenorth> I could trivially generate that 15:11:54 <frosch123> some ships have 500, so you can have 500 stages there 15:12:07 <andythenorth> so 15:12:08 <V453000> I thought you can only have 4 loading stages? 15:12:08 <frosch123> but effectively most vehicles load multiple units at a time, so there is no much point in more stages 15:12:12 <andythenorth> what do I do about this? 15:12:23 <andythenorth> it's primarily caused by hide sprite calculations 15:12:27 <frosch123> V453000: construction stages maybe :) 15:12:54 <V453000> wat so trains can load in more than 4 stages? 15:13:00 <V453000> not like I want to draw more than 4 15:13:10 <andythenorth> ha 15:13:11 <frosch123> i do not know of any limit 15:13:17 <frosch123> except the pixels :p 15:13:35 <andythenorth> so can the number of registers be increased here? 15:13:42 <V453000> well I guess I will stick with 4 :) 15:13:50 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:4ce2:bf0d:133a:5715] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:16 <planetmaker> 4 loading stages should be enough for everyone :-P 15:14:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:e980:8a9d:1327:a308] has joined #openttd 15:14:44 <V453000> I think so :) 15:14:59 <V453000> though many of my flatbeds have just 2 :) 15:15:17 <Sturmi> reminds me of "64k memory should be enough for everything" 15:15:27 <frosch123> Sturmi: 640k 15:15:27 <V453000> :DD 15:15:44 <Sturmi> i heard both :D 15:15:44 <planetmaker> similarities are... not by chance, sturmi ;-) 15:15:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:e980:8a9d:1327:a308] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:85ed:a2bb:6175:69e1] has joined #openttd 15:16:56 <andythenorth> ugg 15:16:59 <andythenorth> flapping connection 15:17:05 <andythenorth> so can we have more registers please? 15:17:17 <frosch123> just make you code more sane 15:17:27 <frosch123> or improve the nml compiler :p 15:18:37 <drac_boy> frosch123 thanks, I was just curious about drawing open loads in a few stages .. eg a 2-axle flatcar with two crates of bricks would have half full one crate at 25% .. one full crate at 50% and two full crates at 100% 15:18:46 <drac_boy> just so you understand why I asked about stages 15:19:01 <andythenorth> ho ho, what makes you think my code is insane? :) 15:19:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's a newgrf 15:20:11 <andythenorth> so... 15:20:16 <andythenorth> wtf shall I do? :P 15:20:17 <frosch123> anyway, wasn't pm working on a patch to reduce the number of registers nml may use, in favour of more registers for the user? :p 15:20:31 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.96.125.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:48 <andythenorth> planetmaker: ^ o_O 15:21:20 <frosch123> andythenorth: do you know which computation causes it? 15:21:24 <frosch123> i.e. what did you change :p 15:21:31 <V453000> less is more 15:21:38 <planetmaker> uhm... ah, that you mean, frosch123 15:22:06 <planetmaker> I thought it was done... but it might have been ... forgotten a bit 15:22:43 <frosch123> well, it would make this case more severe, wouldn't it :p 15:24:25 <frosch123> hmm, your patch was about a679d parameters, not about va2 registers, right? 15:24:51 <drac_boy> how many cubic meters did one of these uk mineral car hold? :-> 15:24:53 <andythenorth> my assumption is that it's caused by hide sprite calcs 15:24:54 <drac_boy> heh 15:25:18 <frosch123> andythenorth: do you have duplicated formulas in your spritelayout? 15:25:29 <frosch123> like multiple hide_sprite with c&p content 15:25:31 <andythenorth> loads 15:25:34 <andythenorth> hang on 15:25:41 <frosch123> then you might store the value in some temporary register 15:25:47 <frosch123> and only use LOAD_TMP in the spritelayout 15:26:20 <frosch123> i.e. compute the same value only once per spritelayout, not for each sprite :p 15:27:52 <andythenorth> frosch123: this is one spritelayout http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/1981/ 15:28:00 <andythenorth> only 278 lines 15:28:17 <andythenorth> doesn't even have smoke 15:28:47 <andythenorth> the easy win would be to split snow / non snow to separate spritelayouts 15:28:56 <andythenorth> but that seems to be not the modern way to do it 15:29:54 <andythenorth> I am assuming that it's these layouts that trip up nml 15:30:09 <andythenorth> there's no detail in the error, so it's only a guess 15:31:38 <drac_boy> hmm 20 tons capacity .... and assuming 1ton=62.5kg ... at 1600kg/cu.m that would had been 1.28 cubic meters of dry loose sand 15:31:51 * drac_boy wonders how to check if that would seem allright 15:32:16 <drac_boy> heh sometimes I hate certain formulas :s 15:32:25 <andythenorth> 1 ton = 62.5kg? 15:32:34 <andythenorth> according to which conversion? 15:33:05 <drac_boy> thats what its listed in the newgrf wiki 15:33:34 <drac_boy> (I realize some of the weights used ingame aren't exactly reflective of real life counterpart but still) 15:34:28 <Rubidium> isn't that the base of the weight of one unit conversion? 15:35:03 <Rubidium> it doesn't say a ton is 62.5 kg 15:35:53 <Rubidium> it merely says the unit is in 1/16th tons and that any cargo with "ton" as unit should have 16 15:36:06 <Rubidium> passengers have 1 (IIRC) 15:36:15 <drac_boy> hm..not sure I recalled seeing factions....must be looking at something wrong... 15:36:21 <drac_boy> sorry 15:36:54 <peter1138> 62.5kg is far from 1 ton 15:38:25 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:85ed:a2bb:6175:69e1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 15:39:42 <drac_boy> I'll have to check where I found that erronous non-fraction number but anyway ... recalculating at 1ton=1000kg I asume thats 12.5 cubic meter load then? 15:39:53 <andythenorth> more plausible 15:40:08 <andythenorth> imagine at minimum 1m wide, 1m high, 4m long 15:40:22 <andythenorth> 4m cubic 15:40:32 <rymate_1234> how do I remove a town completely? 15:40:48 <drac_boy> andythenorth mm so I guess sand is too light for a 20 ton mineral car :) 15:41:04 <drac_boy> makes sense tho .. some sites list as mineral car being used to carry stones which must be quite heavy 15:41:27 <InducTrackerOTTD> frosch123: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Sail_%28video_game%29 15:41:52 <drac_boy> the variety of cars is another thing tho .. especially the late 24.5 ton one produced by BR 15:43:00 <andythenorth> I am not convinced that sand is light 15:43:04 <andythenorth> I've shovelled 1t of it 15:43:07 <frosch123> 2000 vehicles :p 15:43:15 <andythenorth> I thought 1t was quite heavy 15:43:32 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 15:45:04 <drac_boy> mm well for now I'm just trying to figure out how much the cargos should weight per 'unit' 15:45:42 <frosch123> drac_boy: http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/CargoDefaultProps 15:45:56 <frosch123> most weight 16, i.e. 1 ton per unit 15:47:14 <frosch123> generally 16 is the value for stuff which is displayed as "x tons of y" in game :p 15:47:16 <Rubidium> drac_boy: everything that has ton as unit is 16 1/16th ton 15:47:44 <Rubidium> everything else, such as liters, boxes, etc could have a different mass per unit 15:48:33 <drac_boy> yeah I just realized that now....corrected my 10-minutes-old note :) 15:48:38 <drac_boy> good thing it didn't get too far from there heh 15:49:03 <drac_boy> frosch123 I still have to figure out how much oil weight in litre term but thats for another day maybe :P 15:49:12 <drac_boy> crude oil to be exact 15:49:29 * drac_boy is working the dry cargos now 15:49:32 <frosch123> default oil seems o have the same density as water :p 15:50:16 <frosch123> drac_boy: anyway, there is also the "capacity multiplier" property which you should set for straw and such :p 15:51:03 <drac_boy> why straw? 15:51:04 <drac_boy> :) 15:51:59 <frosch123> you know the weight of 30 tons of straw? :p 15:52:29 <drac_boy> I wonder if I should consider one 'unit' of bulk materials as 1m3 maybe 15:52:42 <drac_boy> seem small enough to use in pixels 15:53:32 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53:48 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 15:54:36 <InducTrackerOTTD> One unit of steel or sand would weigh very much, and straw very little then 15:56:30 <drac_boy> InducTrackerOTTD well steel is technically a sheet or beam most of the times.. while a big heap of straws is coiled together in bales 15:56:51 <drac_boy> but yeah ... it would take many bales of straw to weight as much as one small house frame steel beam 15:57:00 <InducTrackerOTTD> Unless you want to measure everythin in m^3 aswell 15:57:31 <drac_boy> InducTrackerOTTD mm .. I'm just going to bother with bulk cargos for now and try figure out how to weight other things at a later time ;) 15:57:52 <Rubidium> drac_boy: between 790 and 973 kg/m3 according to http://www.thecalculatorsite.com/conversions/substances/oil.php 15:58:25 <InducTrackerOTTD> drac_boy: well, lots of bulk cargoes would have higher densities than water 15:58:40 <InducTrackerOTTD> coal, iron ore, anything taken from the earth that isn't water, oil or gas =) 15:59:08 <drac_boy> ah nice one thanks Rubidium 15:59:27 <drac_boy> InducTrackerOTTD well ore is much heavier than typical coal tho mind you :P 16:00:04 <drac_boy> thats why I've had to think about how to seperate coal and ore for a while till this morning I finally realized I can still load both in the same wagon .. I just simply make the iron units much heavier than coal .. don't know why I wasn't thinking of that yesterday :) 16:00:37 <frosch123> drac_boy: that's what "capacity mulitplier" is about 16:01:05 <frosch123> it controls how much cargo fits into a wagon, if the wagon does not explicitly set a capacity for a particular cargo 16:01:08 <drac_boy> only problem is... you're not supposed to load a 16 ton wagon with 30 ton of ore tho .. curse the limiting newgrfs :-> 16:01:16 <drac_boy> oh? 16:01:26 <drac_boy> that I'll have to look up after I finish math 16:01:33 <InducTrackerOTTD> A bulk hopper would need both capacity limiters anyway 16:01:47 <InducTrackerOTTD> You could load a full load of plastic pellets to reach the volume cap 16:02:03 <InducTrackerOTTD> or some dense rock or whatever to reach the mass cap of the hopper 16:02:19 <InducTrackerOTTD> Yeah, what you jsut said 16:03:00 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: the property defines the weight of "one cargo unit", e.g. by default, 1 crate of goods is 0.5t, so goods has a capacity multiplier of 2 (so 60 crates go into a 30t wagon) 16:04:17 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: but it's a property of the cargo, so by defining it, you're making your train set incompatible to any industry grfs 16:04:30 <andythenorth> this sounds complicated? 16:04:36 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: what you rather want is the capacity callback for the wagon 16:04:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. simply check for "is cargo == ORE: return half capacity" 16:05:47 <InducTrackerOTTD> Would be much simpler if the wagons and cargoes could be specified with volume/mass parameters 16:06:05 <InducTrackerOTTD> Something to consider including in the game in the future 16:08:41 <frosch123> grf version 9 :p 16:08:41 <andythenorth> version n 16:10:18 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: adding properties doesn't require a grf version bump :) 16:11:06 <InducTrackerOTTD> Cargoes would need to always have 2 out of three properties in that scheme, density, volume, mass 16:11:16 *** TheMask96- [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:11:36 <Eddi|zuHause> InducTrackerOTTD: isn't enough. some cargos are restricted by volume, others by area 16:11:44 <InducTrackerOTTD> area? 16:12:04 <Eddi|zuHause> InducTrackerOTTD: you cannot "stack" cars, so only the area is relevant, not the volume 16:12:24 <InducTrackerOTTD> What kinda cargoes would have to be stacked? 16:12:30 <Eddi|zuHause> boxes 16:12:32 <InducTrackerOTTD> Paper certanly comes nice little cuboid pallets 16:13:23 <InducTrackerOTTD> I don't know the history of carho handling too well, but nowadays boxes are stacked :\ 16:13:36 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A19A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:19 *** bassals [~53221b08@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 16:14:50 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-105-130.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:15:34 <LordAro> evenings all 16:15:42 <InducTrackerOTTD> Actually, I see what you mean now 16:16:09 *** Netsplit charon.oftc.net <-> reticulum.oftc.net quits: dihedral, andythenorth, bb10X, mikegrb, Kurimus, __ln___, Hirundo, lucaspiller_, avdg, JamesGo, (+11 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 16:16:24 <InducTrackerOTTD> The very example I gave, pallets of stacked paper, or rolls of it even, don't usually get stacked beyond the unit (pallet/roll) 16:17:32 <InducTrackerOTTD> It is at the same time a slightly bad comparison tho, considering paper is dense and heavy 16:17:44 <Terkhen> hi LordAro 16:18:07 <LordAro> hey Terkhen 16:20:56 *** Netsplit over, joins: Born_Acorn, tycoondemon, andythenorth, drac_boy, frosch123, dihedral, lucaspiller_, CornishPasty, lugo, JamesGo (+10 more) 16:22:58 <drac_boy> mmm Eddi|zuHause and InducTrackerOTTD good pointers ... I'll think about these just in case I can't be bothered making a custom industry vector to pair with the trains 16:23:48 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: with the capacity callback you can do all that already, it just is a little tedious, and you cannot predict unknown cargos 16:23:54 <InducTrackerOTTD> Possibly 5 params then, density, volume, mass, area density (mass/area) and footprint area 16:27:35 <Eddi|zuHause> http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8363/8276933385_d9da1b37fc_b.jpg <-- we have a "smoke engine" ;) 16:28:06 <InducTrackerOTTD> Engines running on smoke, great! 16:33:43 <drac_boy> heh thats just old cold fuel in the pistons silly :P 16:33:51 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:00 <InducTrackerOTTD> No, I'm sure of it. It's an evolution of steam power 16:34:06 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 16:34:14 <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause mm theres probably no unknown cargos unless someone make a new industry grf thats not compactible with firs/ecs cargo classes? :) 16:34:32 <drac_boy> but yeah I'll have to look up the capacity callback soon 16:34:38 <InducTrackerOTTD> Someone lazy like myself would probably go that path 16:34:41 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: yes. that's exactly what i mean. how should you know what industry grf is invented 5 years from now? 16:35:20 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: or what andythenorth does 5 minutes from now :p 16:37:10 <frosch123> the first one feels easier 16:37:53 <drac_boy> heh heh 16:41:10 <andythenorth> no cargos are known 16:45:26 <drac_boy> andythenorth so you do not know what WOOL is supposed to be sheepwise? :P 16:45:28 <drac_boy> heh 16:48:35 <drac_boy> hmmm which tree type to use .... blah 16:49:22 <frosch123> cotton candy tree? 16:49:50 <InducTrackerOTTD> Mahagony and Balsa, drac_boy? 16:50:09 <V453000> ctcd trees ftw 16:50:30 <InducTrackerOTTD> Courage the Cowardly Dog? 16:51:30 <InducTrackerOTTD> Wait, I meant ebony 16:53:00 <V453000> ctcd = cotton candy 16:53:44 <InducTrackerOTTD> Hmm, so balsa wood is lighter than cork 16:57:42 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:19 <drac_boy> meh I'll just average up a few random trees 16:58:48 <drac_boy> looks like that will be about 800-900kg/cu.m average :) 16:59:04 <drac_boy> going leave that one for later tho 16:59:09 <andythenorth> are you rescaling everything? 17:02:43 *** rymate__1234 [~rymate@host86-140-195-26.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:04:47 <drac_boy> btw lightest listed is balsa at 170 . heaviest is lignum vitae at a bit under 1400 17:04:55 <drac_boy> of course I've never heard of the latter tho 17:05:13 <drac_boy> most others are in 400-1000 ranges 17:06:00 *** rymate_1234 [~rymate@host109-153-46-18.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:08:06 <andythenorth> bah 17:08:10 <andythenorth> spritesorter issues 17:08:19 <drac_boy> heh 17:09:33 <andythenorth> cba to fix those right now :| 17:10:29 <InducTrackerOTTD> Perhaps a trainload of more, better a is needed? 17:12:05 *** rymate__1234 is now known as rymate1234 17:12:21 * andythenorth just removed the fricking sprite :P 17:13:26 <drac_boy> heh heh 17:16:38 <drac_boy> and apparently 6.289810728022 bbl barrels of oil is 1cu.m :) 17:16:49 <drac_boy> bit crazy I know 17:22:00 <InducTrackerOTTD> Crazy how? 17:22:57 <drac_boy> had to find out that number myself by entering each digits till it finally came to 1 and not 0.999 or 1.0014 17:22:59 <drac_boy> :) 17:24:10 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:35:36 <drac_boy> going for lunch now tho 17:35:37 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 17:51:23 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:52:53 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-185-142.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 17:57:41 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:26:55 *** bassals [~53221b08@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:31:51 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:34:11 <Wolf01> bye 18:34:13 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 18:45:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24823 trunk/src/lang/finnish.txt (2012-12-16 18:45:16 UTC) 18:45:24 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:25 <DorpsGek> finnish - 1 changes by jpx_ 19:04:35 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 19:14:23 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:34be:e5f1:b850:514a] has joined #openttd 19:20:43 <Bad_Brett> replacing bridge graphics - where can i find the correct sprite numbers? 19:21:15 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:21:30 <frosch123> correct numbers? 19:21:33 <frosch123> for what? 19:22:24 <frosch123> in case you use nml, afaik nml does not support bridges 19:26:09 <Bad_Brett> yeah i know, but i should be able to replace the base graphics, right? 19:27:55 <frosch123> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=715362#p715362 <- maybe check foobars source 19:28:02 <Bad_Brett> thanks! 19:28:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:34be:e5f1:b850:514a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:31:42 <Bad_Brett> though i'm a complete n00b when it comes to nfo 19:33:51 <Bad_Brett> so it isn't (yet) possible to just replace the standard bridge sprites with a "replace" block in nml? 19:34:23 <Bad_Brett> in that case, i might patiently wait until it gets implemented 19:38:30 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:48 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 19:47:27 <planetmaker> yes, you can replace base graphics 19:47:50 <planetmaker> opengfx is your reference of choice for that. or openttd's source. But the latter is less verbose in that context of bridges 19:48:42 <frosch123> the problem with replacing the default bridge sprites is that your bridge needs to have the exact same layout 19:49:03 <frosch123> wrt. pillars and stuff on the bridge 19:54:53 <Bad_Brett> Yeah I know, but I've designed my bridges to have the same layout 19:55:10 <Bad_Brett> the only problem is that the sprite numbers don't seem to work 19:55:41 <planetmaker> you need to be climate-dependent 19:56:39 <Bad_Brett> alright, that might very well be the issue then 19:58:31 *** roadt__ [~roadt@60.168.91.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:00:15 <Bad_Brett> http://games.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/authors/script.php?feature=spritesbyfile&q=ogfx1_base 20:01:49 <Bad_Brett> is that the correct one? 20:02:09 <Bad_Brett> it seems that replacing sprites from 2437 should make a difference in-game, but so far no success 20:02:27 <planetmaker> that would do. Though I'd read through source code, I guess 20:02:40 <planetmaker> base only refers to temp climate 20:02:53 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:23 <planetmaker> hm... though... if you replace it unconditionally... should work 20:03:55 <Bad_Brett> the problem is that it doesn't work in the temp climate either 20:04:31 <Bad_Brett> i'll try with some more sprites 20:04:41 <Bad_Brett> see if it has any effect 20:04:42 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 20:08:41 <frosch123> well, make sure that no real bridge set is present 20:08:51 <frosch123> they would likely disable usage of the default sprties 20:12:16 <Bad_Brett> nope, i only have my own grf active... the thing that makes me confused is that i've replace hundreds of other sprites using this method without any problems 20:13:07 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 20:13:17 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 20:13:44 <planetmaker> Bad_Brett, you notice there's different sprites for the different roads (temp / desert / tropical / arctic / snow), yes? 20:13:50 <planetmaker> each has its own number 20:13:59 <Bad_Brett> yes 20:14:02 <planetmaker> ok :-) 20:14:40 <Bad_Brett> the terrain is almost completed now 20:16:00 <frosch123> Bad_Brett: well, it would not surprise me if ogfx would add bridges 20:16:06 <frosch123> not only replacing the original sprites 20:16:16 <frosch123> ogfx is no pure baseset :) 20:16:35 <Bad_Brett> yeah... like the rivers 20:17:20 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 20:18:03 <Bad_Brett> by the way, any idea when (and if) it will be possible to code stations in nml? 20:18:03 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:13 <frosch123> whenever one of the nml devs is non-busy and in the mood to do it 20:19:23 <frosch123> can be this christmas, 2012, or 2020 :) 20:19:31 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 20:20:06 <Bad_Brett> haha, that's the usual answer :) 20:21:59 <Supercheese> I'm wondering when the promised new version of mb's Newstations is coming out 20:22:36 <frosch123> you are aware of the dbset 0.9 ? 20:22:42 <Supercheese> I like the railtype support 20:22:45 <frosch123> it was announced for 2011-11-11 20:22:49 <Supercheese> advertised anyway 20:23:19 <frosch123> just ignore any dates mb gives 20:23:57 <frosch123> just be surprised if it is really released :) 20:24:39 <Bad_Brett> :) 20:25:46 <frosch123> i just wonder why he actually gives dates 20:26:17 <frosch123> is he trolling people, or does he believe in them himself :) 20:26:22 <Rubidium> to flame people who ask when it's going to be released for not reading that particular post 20:32:39 <Bad_Brett> Gaah! stupid bridge... i'm checking the source code now, any idea on ...where to look? ;) 20:33:18 <planetmaker> search for "bridge" in it... 20:33:30 <frosch123> hmm, why is hg so stupid to consider -m "-Remove: blabla" as "-R" option? 20:33:33 <planetmaker> grep -Ri "bridge" *.pnml :-) 20:35:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:06:22 <LordAro> you people are clever. what are your thoughts on the boost library? 21:06:40 <glx> too big :) 21:07:54 <Rubidium> oh, that library that has a new version like every week 21:08:04 <LordAro> even if you only include the needed parts? 21:08:28 <LordAro> Rubidium: only, i suspect, if you use the dev builds ;) 21:08:56 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:08:56 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:09:22 <frosch123> usually the boost stuff is only almost what i need 21:09:39 <frosch123> so it ends up it writing the template myself 21:09:58 <Rubidium> well, it's more like major releases 4 a year, but that is still a lot for a library 21:10:06 <frosch123> i do not know many using boost, but those which i know i have put into the douche category 21:10:09 <Rubidium> as major releases imply vast API/ABI changes 21:10:21 <frosch123> no implication, just correlation :) 21:10:35 <glx> seems like ICU :) 21:11:37 <LordAro> i was just thinking, that the filesystem part of the lib could make certain parts of ottd a bit simpler 21:11:46 <Rubidium> glx: only ICU is once a year 21:11:47 <glx> (with boost being easier to compile) 21:11:56 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 21:12:03 <drac_boy> hi 21:12:32 <Rubidium> LordAro: good luck testing what the exact requirements of the version of boost are 21:12:48 <LordAro> e.g.? 21:12:54 <glx> oh latest ICU is a month old 21:13:47 <Rubidium> LordAro: with 4 versions a year, you must be aware that you 'need' to support the last 10-20 boost releases, i.e. whatever you use must be in the boost release of 3-4 years ago 21:13:53 <Rubidium> which will be a PITA to test 21:14:11 <Rubidium> otherwise we cannot compile e.g. the Debian binaries anymore 21:14:11 * LordAro googles PITA :L 21:14:27 <drac_boy> can you mark different freight wagons to have different loading times for the same cargo class or not quite? 21:14:56 <LordAro> Rubidium: that is true 21:15:23 <Rubidium> and actually, the generic binaries could become harder as well; I wonder what APIs boost depends on that we then need to statically link into the generic binary 21:15:43 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:17:00 * LordAro quietly shelves plans to use it in any future projects 21:17:10 <LordAro> i did suspect you would convince me to do that :L 21:18:53 <frosch123> ottd doesn't even use stl properly :p 21:19:18 <frosch123> there is a big difference in coding for ottd and the c++ i do at work 21:19:27 <frosch123> no idea why actually :) 21:20:10 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 21:20:42 <Rubidium> dried grapes? 21:21:32 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:22:06 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:23:19 <Bad_Brett> Interesting... I replaced a bunch of sprites and at least some of the works... getting closer 21:23:41 <LordAro> frosch123: indeed, in fact, i tried to use only c++ things (where possible) in my program - https://bitbucket.org/LordAro/extractdrs (shameless plug for code review) 21:24:06 <drac_boy> Bad_Brett remind me what you're working on again? 21:25:24 <Bad_Brett> Right now i'm adding bridges to my mod 21:25:55 <drac_boy> mod? 21:26:15 <Bad_Brett> http://goldrush.badbrett.se/#0.0 21:34:23 <Eddi|zuHause> had to think of andy when i saw this picture: http://s7.directupload.net/images/user/121216/j8mkcitj.jpg 21:35:22 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:35:27 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:35:30 <drac_boy> heh 21:38:53 <drac_boy> any of you know the name for these thing that look like short flatcars with turntables on top as to deal with extra-long loads? logs and steels usually if I recall right 21:42:28 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:44:46 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:45:42 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 21:48:28 * drac_boy wonders if flygon_ is here or still half-disconnected? 21:49:55 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:50:45 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:53:50 * drac_boy gives flygon some anti-commex measures :p 21:54:08 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: those are wood wagons 21:54:32 <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause yeah but the ones with these two turning stalks on them? 21:54:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 21:55:33 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:55:33 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:17 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.voll-dampf.de/galerienwe/hsb_langholzwagen.jpg 21:57:54 <drac_boy> oh thanks, apparently further search seem to translate it to bolster cars .. thats just what I was needing .. again thanks 21:59:34 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 21:59:34 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:50 *** grzegorz [b2ebdbea@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 22:01:15 <grzegorz> hello, i got 2 questions about depots and stations. my train is taking coal from mine. everything from station. but transported is about 50%... why? 22:02:03 <drac_boy> hmm that could be interesting if I could draw an empty bolster train as being only 20px long but when loaded it'll be "longer" .. maybe too much trouble tho heh 22:02:38 <grzegorz> ? 22:04:01 <FLHerne> grzegorz: transported % is based on station rating 22:04:52 <FLHerne> Which is based on the stuff in http://wiki.openttd.org/Game_mechanics#Station_rating 22:06:45 <Eddi|zuHause> grzegorz: see it as this: the transpoted % is how much they give you to transport, not how much you take away 22:07:35 <Eddi|zuHause> (imagine they have other means of transport that is not modeled on the map) 22:07:37 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:11:05 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:12:08 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-189.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 22:12:32 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:12:32 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:12:51 * drac_boy wonders about heckling flygon's modem 22:12:52 <drac_boy> -_- 22:15:50 *** Flygon__ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:15:50 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:16:47 <LordAro> he's always doing that 22:16:56 <LordAro> should ban him :) 22:17:32 <grzegorz> will read, thank you. couldnt find anything... brb 22:18:02 <drac_boy> heh LordAro some days he do have a good chat with us :P 22:18:14 <drac_boy> its just the few times like now where he seem to be unable to 'talk' at all :-s 22:18:46 <LordAro> he does seem to be in australia, to be fair :L 22:19:01 <Terkhen> good night 22:19:05 <drac_boy> bye Terkhen 22:19:10 <LordAro> night Terkhen 22:19:50 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:26:23 *** rymate1234 [~rymate@host86-140-195-26.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:29:43 *** Flygon__ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:34:49 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:36:58 <grzegorz> don't quite get it, but thank you :) will just test over time :) 22:37:52 <grzegorz> also, when I place station there is a coverage option to enable. should coal mine be covered whole, or just 2 squares coverage is enough to connect mine 2 station? 22:38:40 <drac_boy> grzegorz look at the station construction dialog 22:38:47 <frosch123> make sure it says "supplied: coal" in the window 22:38:48 <drac_boy> when it shows 'coal' instead of 'none' thats more than enough 22:39:59 <grzegorz> ok, thank you! 22:40:05 <grzegorz> now sleep time :) 22:40:10 <grzegorz> gnite everyone 22:40:22 *** grzegorz [b2ebdbea@ircip2.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 22:56:16 <frosch123> night 22:56:18 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d009b26.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:16 <Supercheese> Well 22:57:17 <Supercheese> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=63651 22:57:21 <Supercheese> Check it out 22:57:33 <drac_boy> hm interesting..australia actually had some of the german cargosprinters....! 22:59:50 <drac_boy> heh nice supercheese I'll have to have a look someday 23:07:45 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-105-130.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:07:45 *** Psyk [~Psyk@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:09:06 <MNIM> Supercheese: now that's a nice christmas present! 23:09:15 <drac_boy> heh heh 23:10:20 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:10:49 <drac_boy> flygon are you even actually online? :p either way how's this for a silly locomotive that seem too high for its gauge? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Y1109_Leighton,_1986.JPG 23:11:45 <MNIM> Reminds me of this: http://half-life.wikia.com/wiki/Razor_Train 23:12:47 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:15:22 *** Flygon__ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:15:22 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:16:12 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:16:30 *** pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 23:16:33 *** pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 23:24:38 *** Flygon__ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:35:27 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:38:36 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:42:50 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:42:50 *** Flygon [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:48 <drac_boy> hmm I think I really need some website for australia rolling stocks 23:53:58 * drac_boy knows they have NG over there but not what they run 23:59:11 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]