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00:07:43 <Supercheese> Jeez, very very much simpler 00:13:30 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-111-70-16.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:13:41 <Supercheese> Salve, amice 00:13:59 <Pikka> ave charlie 00:18:31 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has joined #openttd 00:19:34 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BE32.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:21 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@75.114.201.249] has joined #openttd 01:08:03 <drac_boy> is there a limit to what dorpsgek can do anyway? 01:08:17 <drac_boy> :) 01:13:09 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:10 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-005-087.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:33:00 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:38:25 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:47:52 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@200.146.8.214.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:55:56 *** Supercheese [~chatzilla@50-37-104-117.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 02:05:19 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@75.114.201.249] has quit [Quit: -] 02:30:26 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-189.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 02:39:27 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 03:17:44 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176109482.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 03:48:21 *** flaa [~flaa@188.141.45.124] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:22:44 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:33:17 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 04:45:52 *** pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 04:45:56 *** pjpe [ae5f48b7@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 04:54:27 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 05:29:05 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5BCC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67ECB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:11:15 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-189.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:12:03 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 06:20:13 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 06:35:52 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:03:54 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 07:04:18 *** Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has joined #openttd 07:28:48 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 07:31:59 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 07:42:02 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:45:40 *** FlyingFoX [~quassel@sanktwendel.weh.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #openttd 07:46:56 *** FlyingFoXy [~quassel@sanktwendel.weh.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:10:38 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:12:29 <Pikka> :D 08:12:35 <Pikka> AIAI septuple-heads train 08:12:46 <Pikka> but on the other hand, it does build its railways straight up mountains 08:16:56 <Supercheese> The 7 steam engines of the apocalypse 08:18:35 <Supercheese> (unless they weren't steam engines, of course) 08:18:59 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-012-125.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 08:20:15 <Flygon> Supercheese: I am laughing so hard, I'm coughing 08:21:39 <Supercheese> TBH, I don't even know what the "7 horsemen" or whatnot are supposed to be, I just hear that phrase thrown around a lot 08:22:18 <Supercheese> but I can imagine seven steamers trying to pull a heavy train up a steep grade being rather terrifying to a theoretical 1st-century observer ;) 08:22:50 <Flygon> It's the four horsemen 08:22:56 <Supercheese> ah, see 08:23:02 <Supercheese> I don't even get the quote right :P 08:23:51 <Flygon> Pikka: is it making profit? 08:31:12 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 08:39:34 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@2607:f358:1:fed5:22:0:6979:842d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:40:30 <dihedral> hello :-) 08:42:50 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:57:28 <planetmaker> moin :-) 08:57:36 <planetmaker> Pikka, at least AIAI does build trains :-) 08:57:52 <planetmaker> seems that building reasonable train networks by AI is not an easy challenge 09:07:49 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:07:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 09:10:50 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-41-116.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:21:20 <Pikka> no, Flygon 09:21:24 <Pikka> moin planetmaker 09:22:02 <Flygon> Pikka: Poor AI 09:27:27 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:47:10 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:58:25 <Flygon> As i 09:58:26 <Flygon> in* 09:58:30 <Flygon> I feel sorry for it 10:08:09 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19074.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:08:10 <V453000> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/EngineTable.png :> 10:09:24 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 10:25:18 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 10:28:05 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:28:17 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@p4FEDD351.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:32:16 <dihedral> V453000, too much time? 10:36:59 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:38:06 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 10:38:21 *** KenjiE20 [kenjie20@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #openttd 10:41:17 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 10:42:54 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48:37 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 11:38:32 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:52:01 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:00:43 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@101.117.13.203] has joined #openttd 12:16:09 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-108.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:17:38 <V453000> dihedral: never :D 12:26:23 <Flygon> Huh 12:26:27 <Flygon> Nice touch 12:26:33 <Flygon> Steam trains slow down in tunnels 12:31:35 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:03 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 12:46:44 *** robotboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:49:13 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 12:57:55 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 13:01:05 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-108.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 13:03:57 *** Sturmi [~sturmi@p4FEDD351.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Sturmi] 13:09:23 <planetmaker> V453000, looks like a nice overview. But I think the engines are not shown in a good way, they're IMHO very hard to identify in that representation 13:09:50 <planetmaker> Rather take an equally-sized box for each or so. Would enhance the ability to distinguish them 13:10:20 <planetmaker> The white border dominates their image by far too much right now 13:11:41 <planetmaker> but conceptionally it's one of the best overviews I've seen so far :-) 13:29:15 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:29:30 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 13:31:24 <Terkhen> hello 13:32:17 <Flygon> Hell 13:32:19 <Flygon> ... 13:32:21 <Flygon> Hello 13:32:28 <Flygon> Though, it's the 21st in Australia 13:32:39 * Flygon chainsaws a Gangnam Zombie Demon 13:32:45 <Flygon> Surviving quite well 13:33:50 <V453000> thanks for the feedback pm :) I will try something 13:37:16 <V453000> removing the white stroke and keeping the black outer glow looks better already 13:37:46 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@2607:f358:1:fed5:22:0:6979:842d] has joined #openttd 13:42:09 *** welshdragon [~heswelsh@2a01:4f8:160:3241:1:0:7fa7:e1c3] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 13:43:06 *** lobster [~lobster@glosoli.owenrudge.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:25 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@000128f3.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:59 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:33 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-111-70-16.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:56:52 <planetmaker> np :-) 13:59:47 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:00:24 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@borealis.jontysewell.net] has joined #openttd 14:10:38 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:45 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 14:17:00 *** Arafangion [~Arafangio@101.117.13.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:18:19 <Belugas> hello 14:19:10 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.120.53] has joined #openttd 14:25:19 <planetmaker> hello sir saguleB :-) 14:28:10 <Ammler> V453000: that table is too realistic! 14:28:43 <V453000> :D 14:29:33 <V453000> I think I will just try to recolour the trains to some more contrasting company colours pm :) 14:30:15 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: now do an overview for CETS as well :) 14:30:42 <V453000> oh fuck no :P 14:30:54 <V453000> 10237 engines? :D 14:31:51 <Eddi|zuHause> no, probably around 200 for the basic sets 14:32:09 <V453000> still, this is around 100 14:32:51 <Eddi|zuHause> grep core src/table/CETS_Tracking_Table.tsv | wc -l 14:32:53 <Eddi|zuHause> 387 14:33:33 <V453000> just wtf :) 14:33:54 <Eddi|zuHause> it can be simplified if you consider each epoch and each company individually 14:34:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so you'll have ca. 50 engines in each ~40 year epoch for each company 14:34:45 <V453000> if I cover 150 game years and provide _many_ reasonable choices/stat changes, I cant imagine what are 400 trains for 14:34:59 <V453000> lol 14:35:35 <Eddi|zuHause> if you really boil it down, your set and my set are not that different :) 14:36:00 <V453000> I just wonder if you will have a few trains in the gigantic group which will have exceptional stats 14:36:40 <Eddi|zuHause> not in the core set, but in the extended set possibly 14:36:44 *** lobster [~lobster@glosoli.owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 14:36:58 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on what you mean by "exceptional 14:37:15 <V453000> I mean in general trains which are more effective in transporting/have more power/are faster 14:38:00 <V453000> your set can have endless amount of trains but if one train is too strong, the rest is irrelevanyt 14:38:02 <V453000> -y 14:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the engines are grouped into "heavy freight", "light freight", "express passengers", "main line passengers" and "branch line passengers" 14:38:31 <Eddi|zuHause> some are "universal" 14:38:37 <V453000> which differs how? :) 14:39:59 <Eddi|zuHause> "heavy freight" is usually slow to medium speed but very strong, "light freight" is low cost, "express passengers" is very fast, the others are slower, but faster than the speed limit of the wagons. express wagons have low capacity, passenger wagons have higher capacity, and commuter wagons have highest capacity 14:40:55 <Eddi|zuHause> to model the "standing" of people in commuter wagons, the cargo decay rate is increased 14:41:01 <V453000> sounds conceptually nice but "low cost" is pretty pointless tbh .) 14:41:25 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: it's gameplay value is intended at small feeder lines 14:42:05 <V453000> cost isnt really anyhow important, you just have to make a more profittable network if it is an issue but that isnt too relevant to trains themselves 14:42:13 <V453000> something like faster but weaker freight would be nice for that 14:42:56 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but there are only few examples of that kind 14:43:07 <Eddi|zuHause> BR41 would fall into that category 14:43:12 *** NGC3982_2 [~mirc-appe@h-235-187.a147.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 14:43:15 <Eddi|zuHause> smaller but faster than BR44 14:43:20 <NGC3982_2> Evening, gentelemen. 14:43:22 <V453000> ah, realistic trains 14:43:24 <NGC3982_2> Basic question: 14:43:47 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise you can usually use passenger engines for that job 14:44:10 <V453000> ah right 14:44:10 <NGC3982_2> http://i.imgur.com/3N4Pu.png 14:44:12 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. V160, which is "universal" anyway 14:44:29 <NGC3982_2> If that train comes to any of the destinations a day early, will it wait until the travel time is 14 days? 14:44:49 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982_2: the timetable is not complete 14:45:00 <NGC3982_2> What have i missed? :) 14:45:08 <Eddi|zuHause> the waiting times at the station 14:45:19 <V453000> that is nice. I prefer having passengers as strong, fast, awesome - but passenger only trains ... but having passenger engines able to go with cargo and be like a FAST class, well, not too bad I would say :) 14:45:44 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176109482.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 14:45:49 <drac_boy> hi 14:46:10 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: well. for "fast. awesome" you have express, "passenger wagons" usually have fairly low speed limit 14:46:25 <michi_cc> V453000: Most of the time CETS isn't really offering many overlapping engines (unless you look at all companies at the same time, DB, ÃBB and SBB together have overlapp of course). Generally it is only one or two engines per group per axle weight class. 14:46:28 <V453000> :) 14:46:37 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Quit: reboot] 14:46:49 <NGC3982_2> Eddi|zuHause: The idea is to make the train complete the orderlist at exactly 28 days. Since the actual completion time is 26 days, i want the train to wait (or travel) slowly up to 28 days. 14:47:03 <V453000> well, now go draw the 400 engines :P how much is done? 14:47:22 <planetmaker> V453000, all are done. Just some are a bit "square" in design ;-) 14:47:32 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982_2: you should set travel time to 13 and waiting time to 1, to have 28 days cycle time 14:47:47 <NGC3982_2> Ooh 14:47:50 * NGC3982_2 tries. 14:47:50 <V453000> planetmaker: :D 14:48:27 <drac_boy> CETS? 14:48:28 <michi_cc> The axle weight classes allow you to choose to either use your old tracks with somewhat inferior engines or upgrade to a new track type. An appropriate (base)cost structure and infrastructure maintenance let's the decision to be different for each type of network. 14:49:10 <drac_boy> sorry but just whats CETS? heh web isn't helping much even if I add 'openttd' to it 14:49:40 <planetmaker> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets 14:49:53 <NGC3982_2> Eddi|zuHause: I think i understand what i missed in the original process. Thank you. 14:50:00 <NGC3982_2> Eddi|zuHause: And merry christmas. 14:50:03 *** NGC3982_2 [~mirc-appe@h-235-187.a147.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 14:50:07 <planetmaker> and for what it's worth, drac_boy, it's #3 on google for me 14:50:21 <planetmaker> with "cets openttd" 14:50:24 <Belugas> funny, sir rekamtenalp, very funny :) 14:50:33 <planetmaker> :-) 14:51:29 <drac_boy> oh that europe set 14:51:55 <drac_boy> michi_cc am I reading right that CETS has several different track types for the same gauge? 14:52:32 <planetmaker> wrong 14:52:34 <Eddi|zuHause> CETS has no track types 14:52:36 <planetmaker> cets has no tracks 14:52:58 <Eddi|zuHause> but it is prepared for a matching trackset 14:53:06 <planetmaker> ^ 14:53:08 <Eddi|zuHause> which has several track types for standard gauge 14:53:08 <drac_boy> oh I see 14:53:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and optionally a narrow gauge type 14:53:26 <drac_boy> so its basically alike to the different track price+maintenance thats been present in simutrans? 14:53:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know simutrans that well 14:53:59 <Eddi|zuHause> but the idea is to model real-life "track classes" 14:54:06 <Eddi|zuHause> with different axle weight 14:54:12 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 14:54:19 <Eddi|zuHause> (higher axle weight implies higher cost/maintenance) 14:54:33 <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause mm simutrans offers 4 or 5 (I forgot now) different tracks from the cheap 50kph one to the expensive 300kph ones ... and if you eg bought a Bullet but only laid the 50kph tracks .... track maintenance would be cheap but the poor train is stuck at a very slow speed 14:54:50 <drac_boy> axle weight now thats a new one...would be interesting 14:55:02 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: if you care only about speed, you should check out NuTracks 14:55:08 <drac_boy> no more running your modern usa locomotives over older uk tracks ... HEH 14:55:17 <drac_boy> it would break the rails in only a few days if you tried 14:56:44 <drac_boy> either way I'll be interested in hearing how this rail type thing works out 14:56:54 <michi_cc> Speed is mostly dependent on track alignment and geometry and not on the way the rails and the track bed are constructed, so using speed to differentiate track types in-game is rather unrealistic (if I dare to say that :) 14:58:09 <drac_boy> michi_cc maybe but don't express train expect well ballasted true rails ... while an once-a-day lowdown freight wouldn't care for wobby weedy tracks ballast or not? 14:58:24 <drac_boy> just saying thats why I thought about speed in general 14:59:34 <michi_cc> The proposed CETS track set would still set some speed limits as e.g. the ICE3 or TGV have a very low axle weight and we don't want them to run well on very cheap tracks. 14:59:36 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: yes, there are some limits like speed over switches and stuff that depend on the way the rails itself are constructed, but if you think 200km/h vs. 300km/h, the curviness of the track is rather of concern 15:00:09 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 15:01:08 <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause hm actually you do have a point there, I think UIC defined highspeed turnouts ... compared to usa which often had a 30-50kph speed restriction (even still applies to some of the amtrak acela routes too...) on the branching leg of a turnout even if th straight leg was good for over 100kph 15:01:29 <michi_cc> drac_boy: This is Europe, not the US. Even disused and abandoned rail lines often look better than what US freight companies consider acceptable track. 15:05:53 <drac_boy> yeah I agree 15:06:29 <Flygon> Come to Australia 15:06:37 <drac_boy> heh hi flygon :P 15:06:42 <Flygon> We have lines with 25-40km/h speed restrictions 15:06:48 <Flygon> This's considered freight grade 15:06:56 <Flygon> The track is corrospondingly terrible 15:10:04 *** Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:59 <Flygon> Interestingly, it's not often track condition for passenger lines that creates speed restrictions 15:11:04 <Flygon> But level crossings 15:11:10 <Flygon> High Speed lines run into curve issues, though 15:11:29 <Flygon> But I'd bet that they'd be 200km/h+ worthy without level crossings 15:13:35 <drac_boy> hmmmm 15:13:51 <drac_boy> don't see any recentish threads with the name cets or europe .. wonder what kind of trains they have 15:13:52 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: the fastest switches i know have 200km/h on the branching side, but those are really rare. mostly you have a "slow" version with 100km/h straight and 40km/h branching, ocassionally faster versions with 60km/h branching 15:14:07 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: there is no thread yet 15:15:11 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: there will be a thread when we have a semi-complete 0.1(-alpha) version 15:15:57 <drac_boy> oh ok 15:21:19 <planetmaker> the CETS thread is on IRC and on the link I gave earlier :-) 15:21:34 <planetmaker> and the links found at the link I provided. E.g. the tracking table 15:24:50 <Flygon> Eddi: Don't the specially designed HSR switches have a theoretically unlimited speed? Due to lack of gaps? 15:25:00 <Flygon> Just that the curve of the lines matters? 15:26:10 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no such thing as a "theoretically unlimited speed" 15:26:31 <Flygon> Theoretically in the sense that 15:26:54 <Flygon> Pretty much nothing goes over 320km/h in any possible environment where you could need a switch :p 15:27:07 <drac_boy> either way I finally looked up that dutch furniture thing earlier this morning..... 15:27:19 <drac_boy> will have to spend a while reading about it in the afternoon..sure is a lot there for Objects heh 15:27:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: there is no theoretical limit to switch speed, yes, it's just a matter how much you want to pay 15:28:06 <Flygon> Eddi: Fryillion dollars 15:33:29 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: But there is a limit: Surface area of the earth :) No amount of money will prevent you (or your passengers) from getting mushed on the side wall if the turnout is too sharp. 15:33:47 <drac_boy> HEH 15:34:01 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: who said you're limited to earth? :) 15:34:33 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: and the question was "is there a limit to switch speed beyond curve speed itself" 15:35:27 <michi_cc> Constructing a rail line between two objects in relative motion might get tricky :p 15:45:33 <Flygon> Look 15:45:40 <Flygon> If we want to solve the curve problem 15:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause> there are movable rails, like at an open pit mine :) 15:45:52 <Flygon> We just need to use intergalactic freight trains 15:45:56 <Flygon> And use light prisims as switches 15:46:17 <Flygon> Just be sure to roll after you jump out of one 15:46:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: incidentally, a prism works by changing the speed of light 15:46:52 <Flygon> Forgive me, I'm very tired x3 15:47:14 <Flygon> I watched Futurama, it's stuck in my head, it's the 21st, and it's 2:46AM 15:47:21 <Flygon> I'm probably gonna sleep on tthe keyboard :D 15:47:26 <Flygon> Night, peeps :)) 15:47:28 <peter1138> changable constants 15:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: speed of light isn't a constant 15:47:56 <Eddi|zuHause> speed of light in vacuum is a constant 15:48:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but a prism doesn't consist of vacuum :) 15:59:39 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:59:58 <drac_boy> hm can the catenary mast be on both sides or only one side of the track? just wondering 16:04:14 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:04:58 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:06:52 <Eddi|zuHause> in OpenTTD the catenary poles can be on either side of the track, but not on both at the same time 16:08:13 <drac_boy> ah, thought it was still only one side 16:08:15 <drac_boy> thanks 16:09:33 <Eddi|zuHause> in TTDPatch, the catenary poles switch from left to right and back, in OpenTTD they are on the same side but on two parallel tracks the side is switched 16:10:26 <Eddi|zuHause> near crossings and switches, the poles may be moved to a place that does not have a track 16:13:32 <drac_boy> and I had a quick look at a few posts on that nutracks dev thread ... if they can include two types of narrow gauge and maybe one broad too that would be a nice track grf for just about any players and countries :) 16:18:26 <Eddi|zuHause> tell that to them, not us :) 16:19:55 <drac_boy> heh yeah I know..when I have time I'll see what the latest progress is and see if anyone else noticed that or not 16:20:08 <drac_boy> because broad gauge...well....would be russia and spain in a major way afaik :P 16:20:37 <drac_boy> and narrow gauge? umm I think I'll rather not mention it..theres just way too many out there 16:21:57 <drac_boy> nice that they did define 3rd rail tho 16:22:03 <drac_boy> some french people may like that after all 16:26:45 <V453000> lol that thing with water towers is funny Eddi, I didnt know that 16:26:57 <Eddi|zuHause> what's particularly french about 3rd rail? 16:28:23 <drac_boy> oh don't know, just that I noticed a lot of the early electrifications were 3rd rail instead of overhead wire ... beats me as to why but its there 16:28:31 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:28:46 <drac_boy> even the one steep route into switzerland still was laid on 3rd rail 16:28:52 <Eddi|zuHause> england used extensive 3rd rail networks 16:29:00 <drac_boy> SR wasn't it? 16:29:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and lots of commuter rail systems 16:29:46 <Eddi|zuHause> almost all subways in the world 16:30:25 <drac_boy> well...subways can't be done in openttd yet ... commuters - a bit different from a freights shared 3rd rail system but fair enough :) 16:30:29 <Eddi|zuHause> (except trams which they placed underground) 16:32:50 <drac_boy> ...what is a benzolmotor now 16:33:06 * drac_boy looks at unhelpful wikipedia 16:36:03 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:42:16 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 16:42:26 <drac_boy> anyway better find some lunch to eat etc 16:42:28 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@bas1-ottawa08-1176109482.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [I'm done being in this room!] 16:49:06 *** Djohaal_ [~Djohaal@177.16.120.53] has joined #openttd 16:49:25 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.16.120.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:05 *** michi_cc [~michi@00012723.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:16:05 *** michi_cc [michi@00012723.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:16:06 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 17:20:31 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:29:01 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffa7e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:29:37 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:34:17 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:39:51 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:43:13 * lobster wonders into the channel 17:43:25 <lobster> anyone 'round? 17:43:48 <Prof_Frink> Nope. 17:48:23 * bb10X drops lobster in boiling water 17:49:32 <lobster> awwwwww 17:49:32 <FLHerne> Yes 17:58:13 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:58:16 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:00:46 <lobster> okay, well I got a quick question 18:01:00 <lobster> as Prof_Frink and FLHerne will probably know 18:01:36 <lobster> but I updated NewStations to 0.5 and now it (OpenTTD 1.2.1) is being a bitch about missing the 0.44 grf 18:01:42 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:43 <lobster> is there an easy solution to this 18:01:44 <lobster> ? 18:01:56 <lobster> and I mean, easier than editing the config files 18:02:45 <FLHerne> lobster: I thought 0.5 was flagged as compatible with 0.4 anyway? 18:03:00 <lobster> it is 18:03:18 <lobster> but I guess it's OTTD itself that looks at it as different 18:03:49 <FLHerne> For the purposes of loading savegames, it shouldn't mind as long as mblunck did it properly 18:04:14 <FLHerne> Although he does have this thing for 'forgetting' OTTD compatibility :-/ 18:06:04 <Sacro> ~. 18:06:08 <Sacro> A~. 18:07:38 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:07:55 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 18:07:58 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 18:12:26 <lobster> FLHerne: well, I hadn't seen any other people where it didn't work 18:12:29 <planetmaker> if mb set compatibility info correctly, it won't matter on load. If not, it will and openttd will refuse to accept it as compatible 18:12:51 <peter1138> You'll need OpenTTD version r24715 (or higher) to run the NewStations set. 18:12:56 <planetmaker> it won't use 0.5 while 0.44 is there 18:13:07 <lobster> I removed 0.44 18:13:10 <peter1138> 1.2.1 is not 24715 or higher 18:13:15 <lobster> filenames' the same 18:13:16 <peter1138> therefore it won't work 18:13:25 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:13:29 <lobster> peter1138: that might be it 18:13:41 <planetmaker> afaik there's nothing which stops it working below, though 18:13:44 <lobster> I figured the 1.2.1 release was recenbt enough to be above that 18:13:46 <planetmaker> but... might be wrong 18:14:01 <lobster> are there still OS X nightlies though? 18:14:13 <lobster> the farm stopped at the time I played a lot 18:14:21 <lobster> someone compiled it once a week 18:14:26 * lobster checks 18:15:47 <lobster> hey, wait a minute 18:15:53 <lobster> why am I running 1.2.1 18:15:59 <lobster> 1.2.3 is the latest 18:16:01 <lobster> what the fuck 18:16:11 <peter1138> also not new enough though 18:16:22 <lobster> I should really clean up my OTTD folder 18:16:30 <lobster> there's about 10 different installs in it 18:16:35 <frosch123> planetmaker: he did not set the version info correctly 18:16:43 <frosch123> it is marked as incompatible to older grfs 18:16:44 <planetmaker> :-) 18:16:59 <lobster> 0.6.0, 0.6.2, 1.0.3, 1.2.1 18:17:02 <lobster> and a load of nightlies 18:17:11 <planetmaker> so, won't help to update your game, lobster 18:17:39 <lobster> I was afraid of that, indeed 18:17:44 <lobster> still, it's quite odd 18:17:56 <frosch123> lobster: you are definitely lacking a ottd 0.3.5 for a bigger variety 18:17:56 <lobster> no-one's commented on this before in the release thread 18:18:13 <lobster> frosch123: I'm sure I have that somewhere too, though :p 18:23:54 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 18:24:06 <lobster> oh, hmmmm 18:24:15 <lobster> return of the dreaded base grf error 18:25:46 <Eddi|zuHause> my versions start only at 0.4.0 :/ 18:27:00 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 18:27:52 <lobster> and downloading the latest base set nightly doesn't fix the problem 18:28:00 <lobster> this is why I quit using nightlies :-/ 18:30:02 <peter1138> no error here 18:30:23 <peter1138> oh i'm not using opengfx though 18:30:56 <Eddi|zuHause> remind me again why opengfx can't use openttd.grf as fallback? 18:31:36 <lobster> this is fixed when I use the original base graphics? 18:31:39 <lobster> what the 18:31:48 <lobster> that's quite odd 18:32:56 <frosch123> lobster: if you use the ogfx nightly, it will have all sprites 18:33:02 <frosch123> you probably used the latest stable 18:33:09 <lobster> nope 18:33:10 <lobster> nightly 18:33:20 <lobster> made sure I didn't download the stable, indeed 18:33:24 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host115-94-dynamic.180-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:33:31 <Terkhen> which revision are you using? 18:33:32 <Wolf01> hello :D 18:33:36 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01 :) 18:33:39 <frosch123> the missing sprites were added to ogfx at least one month ago 18:33:46 <lobster> this one: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/opengfx/nightlies/LATEST/ 18:33:49 <frosch123> so, that would mean there would have been no nighlty for a month :p 18:34:48 <Wolf01> but latest is not a valid version, maybe it's that 18:34:51 <Eddi|zuHause> lobster: more likely that you didn't put it in the right place 18:34:54 <Terkhen> lobster: I'm using that same nightly with the most recent revision and I don't get any "sprites missing" error 18:34:55 <lobster> although the various places OS X OpenTTD puts stuff I'm unsure if I've been able to delete all old files 18:35:19 <DorpsGek> Commit by zuu :: r24829 trunk/src/goal_gui.cpp (2012-12-20 18:35:13 UTC) 18:35:19 <Terkhen> lobster: open the options window and check the OpenGFX description displayed there, does it say r993? 18:35:20 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Reduce code duplication in the goal GUI 18:35:25 <lobster> well, it's in the Users/Documents/OpenTTD/Baseset folder, like the readme said 18:36:32 <lobster> actually it says 0.4.5 18:36:42 <lobster> but I've deleted that version some time ago 18:37:08 * lobster goes and checks where this thing's at 18:37:12 <Terkhen> lobster: it is grabbing it from another place then 18:37:40 <lobster> the problem is that some changes as to where the game put it's files have been confusing me 18:37:56 <lobster> I liked the everything-in-one-folder approach 18:38:10 <Terkhen> it may be placed in content_download/baseset folder too IIRC 18:38:23 <Terkhen> check the README to know the folder architecture 18:38:28 <lobster> but I now have folders in root/Library/Apllication support/OpenTTD as well 18:38:31 <lobster> dunno how they got there 18:38:38 <lobster> that could be it, Terkhen 18:38:50 <Terkhen> root? because of the Users/Document path I assumed that you were using windows 18:39:12 <Terkhen> if you are using linux... package managers sometimes like to place stuff in other folders :P 18:39:26 <glx> OSX Terkhen :) 18:39:30 <Terkhen> ooh 18:39:33 <Terkhen> strange :P 18:39:37 <lobster> OS X 10.6.8 to be exact 18:39:43 <Terkhen> I have no idea of the folders used by OSX 18:39:57 <glx> do we support 10.6 ? 18:40:02 <Alberth> Terkhen: think Linux strangeness**3 :) 18:40:17 <Terkhen> glx: we barely support OSX at all 18:40:19 <Terkhen> :P 18:40:28 * Terkhen wonders if we support Windows 8 18:40:48 <glx> it should run in desktop mode 18:40:50 <Wolf01> blocky trains, oh noes... wait, they are already so 18:41:25 <lobster> holy shit what the fuck 18:41:44 <lobster> it found ANOTHER OpenGFX somewhere 18:41:45 <lobster> and this is version 0.2.4 18:41:45 <lobster> :p 18:42:17 <__ln___> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/20/cash_rich_wikipedia_chugging/ 18:45:13 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24830 trunk/src/lang/turkish.txt (2012-12-20 18:45:06 UTC) 18:45:14 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:15 <DorpsGek> turkish - 5 changes by niw3 18:47:03 <lobster> ooooh 18:47:23 <lobster> I also have the r8285 MiniIN 18:47:29 <lobster> I'll keep that one 18:47:32 <lobster> as it's pretty old 18:47:39 <Alberth> does it still run? :) 18:48:20 <lobster> oh... nope 18:48:23 <lobster> :P 18:48:29 <lobster> I'll baleete it then 18:48:38 <lobster> no use for stuff that don't even work 18:50:25 <lobster> I actually have a neat and tidy OTTD folder now 18:50:28 <lobster> how delicious 18:50:31 <lobster> let's see if it works 18:50:48 <lobster> nope 18:51:00 <lobster> the 0.2.4 version's still somewhere out there 18:51:02 <lobster> BUT WHERE 18:52:39 <Alberth> one option is to run openttd with -d 9 but that gives hell of a lot of output 18:53:32 <Alberth> you could first try -d grf=3 or so 18:53:44 <Alberth> higher numbers give more output 18:53:53 <lobster> basically launch it from Terminal, right? 18:54:07 <Alberth> I am however not sure that baseset is dumped in the "grf" stream 18:54:28 <Alberth> yes, launch from the terminal, you could redirect output to a file 18:55:49 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 18:56:33 <Alberth> and just waiting for the intro screen is sufficient :) 18:57:42 <lobster> that worked like a charm, Alberth 18:57:52 <lobster> although I always forget that the app file is a package 18:58:01 <lobster> and it always takes me a minute to remember that 19:00:51 <lobster> found it! 19:01:04 <lobster> lil bugger was hiding in a data folder 19:02:05 <Alberth> remove everything! 19:02:18 <Alberth> files should be punished for hiding! :p 19:02:29 <lobster> I have removed it, hah! 19:02:40 <lobster> but now it doesn't find the OpenGFX nightly 19:02:54 <lobster> guess the readme didn't get the folder for OS X right 19:03:22 <lobster> there, now it works 19:03:38 <lobster> but not the savegame 19:03:39 <lobster> obv 19:03:51 <Alberth> please file a bug report for the readme 19:03:53 <lobster> so I guess I'll turn on the scenario builder 19:04:23 <lobster> actually I did put it in the right folder, but didn't unpack it 19:04:28 <Alberth> savegame dir is next to the openttd.cfg file I think 19:04:31 <lobster> so it didn't recognize it somehow 19:04:43 <Alberth> .zip files are not recognized 19:04:46 <lobster> yeah, I removed all excess OTTD folders now 19:04:54 <lobster> indeed 19:04:57 <Alberth> .tar does work 19:05:12 <Alberth> as do plain files and directories :p 19:05:25 <lobster> so there's just users/Documents/OpenTTD and the Application folder now 19:05:39 <lobster> there's no shame in unzipping 19:05:43 <lobster> errrr 19:05:44 <lobster> wait 19:05:47 <lobster> :p 19:17:30 <lobster> thanks everyone anyway, for the help 19:17:35 * lobster jumps back to the game 19:20:00 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has joined #openttd 19:24:03 <lobster> actually I can't get the game loaded 19:24:45 <lobster> "For scenario developers, a configuration option exists to enable scenario developer tools, which permit changing grfs in-game (for debugging and testing). This option (scenario_developer) is only available in openttd.cfg or the console." 19:24:53 <lobster> oddly enough, I can't find that command at all 19:24:59 <lobster> or setting/variable 19:25:22 <Alberth> that doesn't sound like the error message you'd get from a failure to load a game 19:25:35 <lobster> doesn't show up when I do list_cmds s either 19:25:48 <lobster> t'is indeed not Alberth 19:26:13 <lobster> can't load it because it doesn't recognize the 0.5 NewStations as the new version of the 0.44 one 19:26:32 <lobster> so I'm trying to set the debug mode so that I can edit grf files in-game 19:26:51 <Alberth> last time I did math class, 0.44 was not 0.5 :p 19:27:08 <lobster> quite true, but MB claimed it's compatible 19:27:19 <lobster> which it clearly isn't 19:27:35 <lobster> now I'm only playing one game at a time, and I want those juicy new stations in this game 19:27:51 <lobster> but that's proving to be a tough job 19:28:01 <Alberth> then MB made an error 19:28:12 <lobster> he did 19:28:23 <lobster> and oddly enough no-one mentioned it yet 19:28:25 <Alberth> in the sense that he wrongly stated 0.44 as not compatible 19:29:03 <lobster> did everyone start a new game with the 0.5 version? 19:29:07 <lobster> I can't imagine that 19:29:34 <Terkhen> the new version of NewStations is not on the online content either? 19:30:37 <FLHerne> Terkhen: It's mblunck being a TTDP-supremacist again :-( 19:30:40 <Alberth> lobster: I always continue playing with the grfs I started with 19:31:26 <Terkhen> FLHerne: given the interest that MB NewGRFs raise, I was hoping for a practical solution for them 19:31:51 <FLHerne> Terkhen: You persuade him, then :P 19:32:04 <Terkhen> I don't know his particular reasons for not using the online content, I never pay much attention to NewGRFs that I cannot use without having to do everything manually 19:32:11 <FLHerne> At least three people inc. me have asked about it in the release thread :P 19:32:54 <lobster> I don't think it's a good idea to ask MB for that though 19:32:58 <lobster> he's really stubborn 19:33:08 <lobster> for no reason at all, obv 19:33:31 <lobster> I think he believes there's no control from his side on BaNaNa-content 19:33:43 <lobster> or something like that 19:34:13 <Alberth> I would really like to understand it, but so far I failed :( 19:34:26 <Terkhen> I was just curious in case I was able to test the NewGRF... his reasons are his reasons, I'm not going to enter any debates :P 19:34:45 *** robotboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:36:49 <Alberth> lobster: I am really wondering what it is, which goes wrong. 19:37:33 <lobster> Alberth: with the newgrf? probably different grf-id 19:37:44 <lobster> or something trivial like that 19:38:25 <Alberth> lobster: with not having control on BaNaNas content. He also has no control about what players do with his grf 19:39:09 <lobster> yeah, he's just anal about that I guess 19:39:23 * lobster brb 19:44:10 <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r24831 trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp (2012-12-20 19:43:54 UTC) 19:44:11 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5398]: [NewGRF] Incorrect values are better than a crash when a NewGRF queries vehicle variable 4C before vehicle initialisation is completed. 19:44:14 <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r24832 /trunk/src (roadveh_cmd.cpp train_cmd.cpp) (2012-12-20 19:43:58 UTC) 19:44:15 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5397]: [NewGRF] Take bridge speed limits into account for vehicle variable 4C. 19:44:18 <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r24833 /trunk/src (7 files) (2012-12-20 19:44:02 UTC) 19:44:19 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Replace magic numbers for invalidating vehicle-related windows with an enum. 19:44:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r24834 /trunk/src (order_gui.cpp train_cmd.cpp) (2012-12-20 19:44:06 UTC) 19:44:23 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5396]: The autorefit dropdown in the order GUI wasn't always updated when modifying vehicle consists. 20:21:52 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:25:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:27:20 <andythenorth> bonsoir 20:31:45 <Alberth> evenink 20:34:58 <lobster> HUNGRY 20:35:01 <lobster> also hallo 20:38:10 * Alberth presses 'pause' at the openttd game toolbar for lobster 20:38:33 <lobster> you pause for me! 20:38:40 <lobster> it's so romantic! 20:38:42 <lobster> \o/ 20:38:59 <Alberth> we can't have players die-ing of hunger! 20:39:10 <lobster> now that is quite true 20:39:21 <lobster> although I am cooking, so I won't be dead for too long 20:39:29 <lobster> delicious boerenkool :3 20:40:43 <Alberth> with aardappelen, I guess :) 20:41:27 <Rubidium> Alberth: nah, with patat ;) 20:41:49 <Alberth> interesting combination :) 20:42:04 <lobster> stamppot obv :D 20:42:17 <lobster> with a truly delicious ambachtelijke rookworst, and spekjes 20:42:19 <lobster> and jus 20:42:23 <Rubidium> Alberth: I reckon you're not south enough yet ;) 20:42:34 * lobster is already watering at the mouth with the promise of deliciousness 20:42:38 <Rubidium> though I would've reckoned Eindhoven is southern enough 20:42:55 <Alberth> it must be my northern roots :p 21:13:05 *** Hyronymus[NSF] [~chatzilla@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:13:34 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:19:57 *** Hyronymus[NSF] [~chatzilla@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 21:20:25 *** Hyronymus[NSF] [~chatzilla@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:55:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:59:43 *** welshdragon [~heswelsh@2a01:4f8:160:3241:1:0:7fa7:e1c3] has joined #openttd 22:01:58 *** sla_ro|master [~slaco@89.137.75.224] has quit [Quit: DANGER sla.ro is OFFLINE DANGER] 22:03:31 <V453000> planetmaker: I think I have figured it out finally https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/EngineTable.png 22:04:11 <Supercheese> Oooh, shiny 22:05:14 <frosch123> are the columns inside the columns different railtypes? 22:05:26 <welshdragon> Gentlemen, I wish to find infrastructure costs (how much it is to build x type of track), How is this defined in OpenTTD? I'm assuming in the NewGRF? 22:05:48 <frosch123> the railtype defines it 22:05:55 <frosch123> and there is a base cost multiplier 22:06:05 <frosch123> for general infrastructure cost 22:06:35 <V453000> yes frosch 22:06:46 <V453000> I originally intended to put some rails there to make that obvious 22:07:09 <frosch123> what? why does the logic train have generations? 22:07:25 <V453000> well technically, those three are rail/mono/mag 22:07:34 <frosch123> ah 22:07:49 <V453000> the bonus "class" has it mixed up a bit 22:08:14 <frosch123> i never reached any of the rainbow class 22:08:19 <V453000> the rest should be 1/2/3 rail/mono/maglev 22:08:31 <V453000> lol :d 22:08:40 <V453000> well you play 7 years games with andy .. 22:08:52 <frosch123> also in singleplayer :p 22:08:59 <V453000> :P 22:09:16 <V453000> the rainbow class gets some friends on 0.4.0 22:09:22 <frosch123> when i still had time i played 256x256 22:09:22 <V453000> not shown here yet :) 22:09:30 <frosch123> now i usually only play 128x256 22:09:42 <V453000> 256x256 is fun 22:11:04 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:12:47 <frosch123> V453000: i know that you don't like closed wagons, why is the pax wagon closed? 22:13:03 <V453000> I actually really considered making them open :D 22:13:05 <frosch123> cabriolet! 22:13:17 <V453000> exactly :D 22:13:31 <frosch123> ok, at least you considered it :) 22:13:41 <V453000> I am drawing a new class of wagons so it isnt completely unlikely to happen very soon 22:13:58 <V453000> hm those trains will actually probably not have passenger support 22:13:59 <V453000> so ye 22:14:04 <V453000> still, it is possible :) 22:14:42 <frosch123> there seem to be quite a lot of wagons around 1990-2000 22:15:00 <V453000> I mainly am going to add super complex feature of flexible train stats - train is longer -> engine has more/less power 22:15:06 <frosch123> ah, railtypes again i guess 22:15:15 <V453000> yeah the new ones are monorail 22:15:52 <frosch123> why is there a monorail local engine, but no pax wagons? 22:15:56 <frosch123> or am i misreading that? 22:16:17 <V453000> the upper 1990 is monorail 22:16:24 <V453000> wagon to the right is passenger 22:16:31 <V453000> or express, to be exact 22:17:33 <Terkhen> good night 22:17:37 <V453000> gn 22:19:39 *** icerocker [~icerocker@97.81-166-26.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 22:21:37 *** drac_boy [~drac_boy@modemcable105.141-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 22:21:42 <drac_boy> hi 22:21:47 <frosch123> night 22:21:50 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffa7e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:35 *** icerocker [~icerocker@97.81-166-26.customer.lyse.net] has left #openttd [] 22:32:17 <drac_boy> so I'm just ask a slight dumb question, in the rail buy list .. everything betwen Cost: to Max Reliability: are pretty much fixed there but any extra lines below that can be optionally added as long as you don't go too crazy? (I can not imagine having 30+ lines of details in that one window heh) 22:33:22 <V453000> you can add as many lines as you want I guess 22:33:29 <__ln___> HAS THE WORLD ENDED YET? 22:33:44 <V453000> additional_text: string(STR_NAME_LOGIC); in graphics{} 22:33:57 <V453000> substitute STR_NAME_LOGIC With your string .. :) 22:34:33 <drac_boy> V453000 well I mean theres 7 lines already now .. how would a user feel like if it changed to 30 lines all just for one single lousy locomotive? :P 22:34:51 <V453000> would you really write there 30 lines? 22:35:39 <drac_boy> I think the ones for HEQS seem to be a little long enough sometimes ... a few times I've had the buy list placed near bottom of openttd window .. then click on one of these tram .. and the two buttons proceed to shoot out of bound :-> 22:35:56 <drac_boy> V453000 of course not, that was just an example :P 22:36:23 <V453000> hm :) 22:36:38 <V453000> I think NUTS adds up to like 5-7 lines 22:36:40 <V453000> not sure how many max 22:36:57 <drac_boy> mm 14 lines sounds fine with me still .. thats not too much height space needed 22:37:48 <drac_boy> what do you have these 5-7 lines for? just wondering 22:37:50 <V453000> yeah up to 7 22:38:09 <V453000> have a look yourself :) wagon capacities, train class, info about tilt 22:38:14 <V453000> attachment info 22:38:34 <V453000> wagon loading speeds 22:38:51 <V453000> and other important info 22:39:04 <V453000> and sometimes just some pseudo-funny quotes 22:40:08 <drac_boy> heh .. sounds interesting 22:40:38 <V453000> it is really good to know all the details 22:40:59 <V453000> and I got a lot of positive feedback for that, too ... so it isnt just me probably :) 22:41:14 <drac_boy> anyway about that...I don't know if you want to give me any "realistic" answers or not...but do you think that stating whether a wagon is braked or not braked should be known in the wagon's classification name and/or as an extra detail in the buy list? 22:41:56 <V453000> depends what does that mean for the player 22:42:25 <V453000> if it is as imortant info as "vehicle is red" then you probably know the answer, if it defines which trains can the wagon be attached to, it almost has to be there 22:42:40 <V453000> my opinion at least 22:44:05 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln___: http://hastheworldendedyet.co/ 22:44:42 <V453000> wait I thought it was at teh end of 21th? 22:44:50 <V453000> IM NOT DRUNK YET 22:44:54 <drac_boy> well I meant like eg a wagon named 'Kb goods van' as in K class and braked ... or the buy list has a 'Brakes:' field .... or even a combination of both 22:45:28 <drac_boy> heh Eddi|zuHause 22:45:34 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:45:36 <V453000> what use for gameplay does that have? 22:45:43 <drac_boy> this whole maya thing has been going around for a while I just don't understand any of it anymore 22:45:44 <V453000> you cant for example attach engine X to braked wagon? 22:45:50 *** Hyronymus[NSF] [~chatzilla@5ED1CCB7.cm-7-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 17.0.1/20121128204232]] 22:46:25 <drac_boy> V453000 because if its unbraked then it needs a brake van before it'll want to leave the depot 22:46:39 <V453000> well then it is quite important info 22:46:45 <V453000> brake vans are dumb btw 22:48:33 <drac_boy> maybe but theres actually some instances of it not being a dedicated brake van but as a part of another wagon ... say a bogie covered wagon with 3/4 of space given over to goods as usual but then other 1/4 for the brake compartment 22:48:48 <drac_boy> but yeah most of the times brake van are just empty cars in term of gameplay 22:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, some wagons had a brake cab (waaay less than 3/4 space) 22:49:26 <drac_boy> come to think about it germany and switzerland had a lot of handbraked wagons 22:49:32 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:49:47 <V453000> empty cars with only the complication to attachment allowances 22:49:48 <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause yeah these little wooden huts indeed 22:50:01 <V453000> if you want to make wagons less effective, just reduce their capacity 22:50:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i vaguely saw a statistics that said about every 4th wagon was with brake 22:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i won't model braked/unbraked wagons in CETS 22:50:42 <drac_boy> Eddi|zuHause you know, I always wondered how come the brake huts are always raised to just a bit above the roofline .. always requires a bit of a ladder-like stairway to get to it 22:50:49 <Eddi|zuHause> except through random graphics variations maybe 22:50:54 <drac_boy> or is it because they need to be able to view the train for some reason? 22:51:24 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: the "communication" between people went over the roof of the train 22:51:41 <drac_boy> ohhh flag/flashlight signals kind of things? 22:51:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the "train leader" had to see the individual people operating the brakes 22:51:55 <drac_boy> makes sense now 22:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause> also the cabooses had a raised roof, where the "train leader" would sit 22:52:57 <Eddi|zuHause> or in passenger trains the luggage wagon 22:53:06 <drac_boy> pre-airbrakes in usa there were a lot of young people as Club men (not sure if that was the offical name) whose's only job were to walk down the roof plankways and tighten the brake wheels with clubs as soon as the engineer whistled for brakes. dangerous job indeed 22:53:25 <drac_boy> don't know where they stayed at when not needed .. probably still sitting on the roof :-s 22:54:23 <drac_boy> airbrakes removed that job .. and eventually even FRA more or less banned any roof walkways existance for good as well 22:55:47 <drac_boy> I'm thinking I wouldn't model brakes too much (beside in 1920 how likely is it theres anything thats still unbraked?) but may still provide the graphics just for the user to use if they wanted some realism in train makeups 22:56:01 <drac_boy> still have to look through some more datas to decide yet 22:56:49 <Eddi|zuHause> a) i start ~1870, and b) 1920 was only the beginning of widespread air pressure braking 22:56:52 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-123-63.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 22:57:07 * drac_boy wouldn't complain about early starters :P 23:02:22 <drac_boy> btw I don't know if it might have confused some player a bit too much but I do wonder about some railroads that ran a mix of seperate vaccum and air braked consists 23:02:31 <drac_boy> can't mix them obviously 23:03:36 <Wolf01> 'nighty night 23:03:40 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:03:46 <V453000> there were multiple reasons why I didnt actually make earlier engines than 1920 ... first off, if you start too early, you would need ridiculously strong/capacitous trains later on, which is pretty bad - all that because industries would start growing earlier. Secondly because the early trains would have to be slower than current 1920 trains which could get to a point of boringly slow. And well, I thought 150 years of new trains coming is go 23:05:08 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: it's fine, you're going further into the future instead 23:05:22 <V453000> I guess 23:05:36 <Eddi|zuHause> 1870-2013 is also around 150 years :) 23:05:46 <V453000> yeah that is true 23:06:59 <drac_boy> heh heh 23:10:02 <V453000> well, more features tomorrow 23:10:02 <V453000> gnight 23:14:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 23:18:13 <drac_boy> future ... 2015+ sets anyone? and it better have ground-hovering road vehicles with very high speed but poor cornering :P 23:18:19 <drac_boy> heh heh 23:18:46 <Eddi|zuHause> *cough*OTTD+500*cough* 23:19:35 <drac_boy> 500? 23:23:05 <drac_boy> what you mean by 500 there anyway? 23:24:30 <Supercheese> Bleh, road vehicles can't go diagonally so they're no good for diagonal long-distance routes 23:24:49 <drac_boy> its not road vehicle .. its the map grid ;) 23:24:56 <Supercheese> Anyway, future vehicles are all about VTOL craft 23:25:01 <Supercheese> haul everything by "helicopters" 23:25:28 <drac_boy> except how do you exempt the idiot drivers? theres some things better left on the ground :) 23:25:34 <drac_boy> just had to say that heh heh 23:25:39 <Supercheese> I've made some future cargo aircraft, but since I plagarized sprites I can't distribute them :( 23:25:47 <drac_boy> mm 23:29:47 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:44 <drac_boy> anything you currently working on or not so much? 23:31:09 <Supercheese> I'm wanting to release a newobjects set 23:31:18 <Supercheese> gotta work on it over Christmas break 23:34:55 <drac_boy> what sort of objects? 23:35:42 <Supercheese> The main objects, and what I expect to be the most popular, are circling seagulls 23:35:48 <Supercheese> great for harbors/fishing grounds 23:36:03 <drac_boy> heh 23:36:43 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:36:44 <Supercheese> I also would like to do a shark, an aircraft carrier, and maybe some more 23:36:50 <Supercheese> but as I said, I've a lot to work on 23:38:42 <drac_boy> so that would have the flags set to a value of 1611 you think? :-p editor only, not removeable, on water, animated (looks better no?), not drawn on land, and water tile drawn underneath :) 23:38:59 <drac_boy> or thats as far as I've recognized the flags thing for Objects yet :) 23:39:11 <Supercheese> Flags? I use NML 23:39:45 <Supercheese> bitmask(OBJ_FLAG_ON_WATER, OBJ_FLAG_NOT_ON_LAND, OBJ_FLAG_DRAW_WATER, OBJ_FLAG_ALLOW_BRIDGE); 23:39:47 <drac_boy> well meh that goes to show how broken the wiki seem to be .. it lists newgrf but wouldn't list the non-nfo things sometimes 23:39:55 <Supercheese> sorry 23:39:57 <drac_boy> mm 23:39:57 <Supercheese> wrong object 23:40:01 <Supercheese> bitmask(OBJ_FLAG_ON_WATER, OBJ_FLAG_NOT_ON_LAND, OBJ_FLAG_DRAW_WATER, OBJ_FLAG_ANIMATED); 23:40:09 <Supercheese> that's the right one 23:40:19 <Supercheese> animation_info: [ANIMATION_LOOPING, 18]; 23:40:56 <drac_boy> and why is there two wikis when the latter one seem to redirect you to the former on a lot of links anyway :-> 23:41:08 * drac_boy will rather not get too far into this tho 23:41:53 <drac_boy> either way supercheese sounds like an interesting object to release on december 31 maybe :) 23:42:41 <Supercheese> No idea when I'll finish/release it :| 23:43:00 <drac_boy> me neither heh 23:43:03 <Supercheese> I have 1 working animated seagull (which looks real neat IMO), but that was the easiest 23:43:33 <Supercheese> seagull flock* rather 23:45:08 <drac_boy> that reminds me 23:45:37 <drac_boy> I wonder how that thing work where ecs includes 'extra' buildings into a town .. and they don't have the usual acceptance/output as houses do 23:46:03 <drac_boy> doubt its actually objects or .. is it 23:46:05 <Supercheese> They're just custom houses 23:50:38 <drac_boy> not sure if you might know anything about this quick question just to check: can you alter the yearly cost through livery-like refit? 23:50:42 <drac_boy> for wagons and so 23:50:56 <Supercheese> Do you use NML or NFO? 23:51:08 <Supercheese> I know precisely nothing about NFO 23:51:30 <drac_boy> atm nfo since I'll like to release it initially with patch support. and thanks anyway, I'll just find that out eventually later on anyway :) 23:51:51 <Supercheese> Yeah sorry, raw hex makes my brain ache 23:52:36 <drac_boy> heh np. I'm actually going to make a commented template (and check it with someone) then reuse it over and over for each wagons I wanted. I know it'll be a bit larger files but meh whats the harm :) 23:53:00 <drac_boy> right now its just mainly tracking table and slowly drawing some sprites atm 23:54:31 <drac_boy> supercheese you know..I did play a little bit with xml but just don't have any interest anymore now tho. especially when its difficult to even find anyone to help you with xslt to parse it ... oh well meh to that! 23:55:27 <Supercheese> .xml? Not for OTTD, then, eh? 23:56:26 <drac_boy> actually heh no .. for website 23:56:28 <drac_boy> :) 23:59:14 <drac_boy> supercheese I don't know how much you would be into actual trains but do you think doubledeck coaches were usually only for passengers. its unlikely any of these types ever had mail sections? 23:59:58 <Supercheese> Hmm, most Amtraks I've seen I'm pretty sure have been passenger only