Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:03:38 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d0833d7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 00:04:25 *** tycoondemon2 [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:05:15 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-5d857134.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:20:54 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:26:35 *** tycoondemon [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 00:29:13 *** Flygon_ [Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 00:32:21 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 00:41:51 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-055-016.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:44:24 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:47:23 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:48:58 *** APTX [~APTX@87-206-254-167.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 01:48:59 *** APTX [~APTX@87-206-254-167.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #openttd 02:08:37 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:54 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 03:22:32 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 05:52:11 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 05:52:14 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 05:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4ABC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67655.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 05:57:25 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-72-206.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:09:28 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:20:21 *** guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:20:21 *** guru3_ [~guru3@90-224-111-173-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:25:54 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:01:45 *** Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has joined #openttd 07:05:47 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:20:20 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 07:31:42 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:37:15 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:12:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:12:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 08:21:16 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 08:28:24 <peter1138> Core0 Temp: +12.0°C 08:42:55 *** Celestar_ is now known as Celestar 08:42:58 <Celestar> :) 08:43:07 <Celestar> You should see a doc, peter1138 08:43:15 <peter1138> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/ 08:43:51 <peter1138> oh, might not be available out of the uk 08:44:03 <Supercheese> hmm, does DorpsGek do temperature conversions? 08:44:17 <Supercheese> @calc 12°C °F 08:44:18 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1) 08:44:21 <Supercheese> dang 08:44:29 <Celestar> erm 08:44:38 <Supercheese> Google it is 08:44:40 <Celestar> @calc 12*1.8+32 08:44:40 <DorpsGek> Celestar: 53.6 08:44:42 <Celestar> there. 08:44:56 <Supercheese> I don't have that forumla memorized @_@ 08:46:01 <Celestar> well now ye do 08:46:14 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:46:27 <Supercheese> I usually use my hand calculator's builtin conversion, or Google if at a computer 08:46:32 *** Pikka [~sammich@d58-106-35-85.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:46:46 <Celestar> I just guestimate :P 08:46:56 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 08:47:23 <Supercheese> I use Celsius so little I can't really estimate well, other than 0° 37° and 100° C points, anyway 08:47:39 <peter1138> you use celsius really? :p 08:47:48 <Supercheese> Not much 08:48:02 <Supercheese> hence why I like it converted :P 08:48:04 <peter1138> oh i didn't read the rest, lol 08:48:15 <peter1138> i use celsius so ... 08:48:38 <Supercheese> I wish my country used Celsius, but I can't change things... 08:48:54 <kamnet> Technically, we do use celsius. 08:49:08 <Celestar> I hate Celsius 08:49:11 <Celestar> it's a stupid scale. 08:49:15 <Celestar> almost as bad as Fahrenheit 08:49:55 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:50:23 <Supercheese> You prefer which scale then? 08:50:25 <peter1138> ok, my cpu temp is 285K 08:50:26 <kamnet> Let's not turn this into a heated debate, gentlemen! 08:50:32 <Celestar> Kelvin. 08:50:33 <peter1138> kamnet, ho ho! 08:50:35 <Supercheese> -_- 08:51:24 <Celestar> well actually. 08:51:53 <Celestar> I had a friend who wrote a PhD thesis in physics 08:52:09 <Celestar> where he wrote "In this work, I shall use the god given units" 08:52:28 <Celestar> c = 1, hbar = 1, kb = 1, G = 1 08:57:38 <Supercheese> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4746860/helicopter-hits-crane-and-crashes-in-vauxhall.html 08:57:52 <Supercheese> Oh my... 08:58:01 <peter1138> yup 08:59:39 <kamnet> We're having some epic heavy equipment failures around the globe todday 09:03:52 <Supercheese> 'night 09:04:07 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0/20130104151925]] 09:13:25 <Celestar> Oh man. 09:13:36 <Celestar> Berlin is really run by a bunch of complete and utter idiots. 09:14:27 <peter1138> ~uhh 09:14:44 <Celestar> it can't be THAT difficult to remodel an existing airport ... 09:15:51 <Celestar> Move one runway. Build terminal. 09:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: those are the funniest kind of physicists... "i just do this formula and then add c's and h's until the unit fits" 09:17:26 <Celestar> If Chicago manages to build four runways, remove three and extend two, while handling 3000 arrivals and departures a day. one might think that Berlin manages to move one runway while doing about 100 arrivals and departures a day. 09:18:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: at least they resolved the NSU crisis, and the S-Bahn crisis, and ... :p 09:18:33 <__ln__> the wall crisis 09:19:07 <Celestar> Berlin doesn't manage to chop a tree without damaging all building in the vincinity during the process, I assume :P 09:19:51 <Eddi|zuHause> "Wir können alles â auÃer Flughafen (und S-Bahn) (und A100) (und freundlich) (und richtiges Abitur)" 09:20:07 <Celestar> yep. exactly. 09:20:20 <Celestar> Wasn't their motto "poor and sexy"? 09:20:29 <Celestar> I think it should be "poor and incompetent" 09:21:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure it's the same everywhere whenever politicians are involved 09:21:21 <Celestar> it is similar 09:21:26 <Celestar> but not as bad. 09:21:39 <Celestar> might be concentration of politicians in Berlin ... 09:21:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Elbphilarmonie? 09:21:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Stuttgart 21? 09:22:19 <Celestar> Well 09:22:22 <Celestar> Stuttgart 21 remains to be seen. 09:22:31 <Celestar> Although it the wrong solution to the problem. 09:22:47 <Celestar> Build an ICE station outside the city, like every other country does. 09:23:05 <Celestar> same in Frankfurt, Köln, Mannheim, etc. 09:23:21 <Celestar> actually every city where the high-speed trains do not begin or end. 09:23:31 <Eddi|zuHause> upcoming major catastrophes: Munich 2nd tunnel, Fehmarnbelt-Bridge, ... 09:23:43 <Celestar> Munich 3rd runway ... 09:24:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i still wonder whether they'll actually manage to open the Citytunel Leipzig this year :) 09:24:54 <Celestar> Digging a tunnel seems to give Germans a big headache. 09:25:02 <Celestar> You know, they might ask the Swiss .... 09:25:26 <Celestar> whose Gotthard Base Tunnel is nearly 2 years AHEAD of schedule... 09:25:33 <Eddi|zuHause> last i heard the tunnel itself is already finished, they're only building the connections to the network now. but they're running out of time for the trains 09:25:51 <Celestar> You know. 09:26:17 <Celestar> in 1891, Tsar Alexander II. decided that it would be helpful to build a railway through russia. 09:26:30 <Celestar> through Siberia 09:26:35 <Celestar> over rivers several km wide 09:26:39 <Celestar> Permafrost ground 09:26:40 <Celestar> etc. 09:26:48 <Celestar> it took them 25 years. 09:27:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i always wondered who the hell came up with that stupid idea :p 09:27:25 <Celestar> in 1994, Germany started building a railway line from Bamberg to Erfurt. 09:27:37 <Celestar> which is of similar distance (100km vs 9300km) 09:27:46 <Celestar> and it will take 21 years. 09:27:49 <Celestar> that's progress.... 09:28:06 <__ln__> i've read electrifying the siberian railway took ~70 years 09:28:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: they're definitely not running 300km/h on the transsibirian railway :p 09:28:27 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: and? 09:28:37 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: that's mainly a question of curve radius... 09:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: about the same time as electrifying Munich-Berlin 09:29:02 <Celestar> Munich-Berlin today is 6 hours by train. 09:29:08 <Celestar> Madrid-Barcelona is 2:30 09:29:10 <Celestar> same distance. 09:29:14 <Celestar> SAME TRAINS. 09:29:20 <Celestar> well .. nearly.. 09:30:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: but they don't have a Coburg that also wants a stop :p 09:30:17 <peter1138> apparently Munich-Berlin is under 6 hours by car... 09:30:21 <peter1138> yay for trains 09:30:25 <Celestar> peter1138: I've done it in 3:50 09:30:48 <Celestar> door to door. 09:30:54 <Celestar> ok that was the middle of the night. 09:31:12 <Celestar> but going normally (130-140km/h) takes about 5 hours. 09:31:58 <Celestar> But, German trains have an average of 20% reserves in their schedules. That's why they have those awesome on-time statistics. 09:32:01 <Celestar> NOT. 09:38:37 <Eddi|zuHause> but they have the most awesomest train approval team, that's why everyone wants to spend so much time with them :p 09:39:52 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 09:42:13 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:55:55 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 10:06:38 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:08:01 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:11:39 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:14:42 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:36:13 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:41:02 <Rubidium> Celestar: they already managed moving one runway in Berlin, after all... the current runway of SXF was moved a few hundred meters to make way for a highway ;) 11:01:11 *** FlyingFoX [~quassel@sanktwendel.weh.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:12:46 *** FlyingFoX [~quassel@sanktwendel.weh.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #openttd 11:20:32 <Flygon_> Celestar: Go 140km/h in a car in Australia, lose your license :( 11:20:48 <Flygon_> Speed limit in Victoria is flat out 110km/h, at best... 11:21:00 <Flygon_> Most cars here can cruise safely @ 160km/h >_> 11:21:05 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 11:21:28 <Flygon> And that's why peeps think trains that cap @ 177km/h are bullet trains :p 11:21:29 <__ln__> your speed limits are in km/h? 11:21:34 <Flygon> Yes 11:21:37 <__ln__> good for you 11:21:52 <Flygon> 70mph limit for you Americans 11:21:54 <__ln__> temperatures in °C? 11:22:01 <Flygon> Yes, __ln__ 11:22:02 <__ln__> i'm definitely not american 11:22:05 <Flygon> We're basically Europe 11:22:17 <__ln__> no you aren't, DVD region code 4. 11:22:21 <Flygon> Except we calculate height in imperial measurements 11:22:23 <Flygon> EXCEPT 11:22:25 <Flygon> For buildings 11:22:27 <Flygon> Which use metric 11:22:31 <Flygon> Welcome to Australia :p 11:22:57 <peter1138> altitude is important 11:23:04 <peter1138> you wouldn't want to go flying into cranes or anything 11:23:49 <__ln__> Flygon: but you drive on the left? 11:23:59 <Flygon> Yes 11:24:19 <__ln__> there goes your europeanity 11:25:07 <Flygon> We're a hybrid of murrica, pop island, and.... some sort of insulting-but-lighthearted word for Europe :p 11:25:20 <Flygon> ...pom island 11:25:21 <Flygon> Not pop 11:25:25 <Flygon> God, I am so derp tonight 11:25:43 <Flygon> Though, we have lost one other aspect of Europe... 11:25:47 <Flygon> All trains are Diesel @_@ 11:26:07 <Flygon> Also, ICE-D plzkthx 11:26:18 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:30:49 <__ln__> isn't it ICE-TD 11:31:02 * peter1138 is european, drives on the left, and uses miles :p 11:32:53 <Celestar> Rubidium: :P 11:33:08 <Celestar> Flygon: well ... 110km/h is slow. 11:33:24 <Flygon> 110km/h even feels slow :( 11:33:37 <Flygon> My Magna didn't even feel like it was working hard @ 140km/h... 11:33:42 * Flygon was on a backroad >_> <_< 11:33:58 <Celestar> 200km/h cruise is fun :P 11:34:05 <Celestar> everything above gets a little stressy 11:34:09 <Flygon> ...then again, this's the same car whom's transmission decided 110km/h @ 2nd gear was a good idea 11:34:20 <Flygon> It was climing a hill on a freeway >_> 11:34:29 <__ln__> whom's = whose, right 11:34:34 <Flygon> Yes 11:36:14 <Celestar> lol 11:37:11 <__ln__> Flygon: this one? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/BahnRatekau.jpg 11:37:33 <__ln__> that white thing on the ground is called s-n-o-w 11:38:05 <peter1138> sunbleached sand :D 11:38:25 *** Maedhros [~maedhros@72.42.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 11:38:39 <Flygon> __ln__: Yes, like that one 11:38:43 <Flygon> And while we're on snowtrain pics 11:39:29 <Flygon> http://images.theage.com.au/2008/07/08/152943/420_snow_train-420x0.jpg Local 200km/h capable train in snow :p 11:39:54 <Flygon> Diesel ICE can go faster than 200, can't it? 11:40:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i went to Karlsruhe recently (via A71/ThÃŒringer Wald) in snowy/foggy weather... rarely got up to 130km/h... took about 5:30h (google maps says it can be done in ~5h) 11:40:20 <__ln__> 200 km/h says wikipedia, if it's to be trusted 11:40:33 <Flygon> Oh 11:40:38 <Flygon> Only 200km/h? 11:40:51 <Eddi|zuHause> can probably save like 20 minutes is actually finished between Sangerhausen and Sömmerda 11:40:56 <Flygon> May as well just order more VLocity and upgrade some tracks to 200km/h >_> 11:41:04 <Eddi|zuHause> s/is/if/ 11:41:54 <Flygon> Looks like ICE TD is NOT a cheap solution to Australia's fast train problem 11:42:04 <Flygon> Regauging VLocity to 1435mm is :P 11:42:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: Flygon any place that gets rails beyond 200km/h is electrified, so not much point for the ICE TD 11:42:49 <__ln__> Flygon: here's a screenshot i took inside an ICE TD: http://users.utu.fi/lanurm/kuvat/tmp/ICE-screen.jpg 11:42:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: allegedly, even a fully occupied ICE TD didn't run profitable 11:42:56 <Flygon> Except the VLocity isn't a tilt train... this made for fun when it went OSpeed on late running on wooden sleepered tight turn tracks @ 145km/h... cue centrifugal force 11:43:05 <Flygon> Wait 11:43:16 <Flygon> There's a such thing as a profitable passenger train? 11:43:22 <Flygon> Waaaaiiiit 11:43:27 <Flygon> Your trains have LCD screens? 11:44:03 <Flygon> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Vlocity_interior.jpg Our interiors are boring as fuck 11:44:28 <Flygon> Er 11:44:29 <Flygon> Wait 11:44:37 <Flygon> Pretend I didn't say the F word 11:44:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: in germany, it's apparently expected that long-distance trains run profitable without government support, only local trains are supposed to get government funding 11:44:44 <Flygon> Gaaah, Mister Flygon got carried away >_<" 11:44:45 <Flygon> Sorry 11:45:02 <Flygon> Eddi: Ah... trains here are run with the assumption of a profit loss 11:45:05 <Flygon> And road coaches 11:45:19 <Flygon> Only profitable train companies are tourist railways 11:45:40 <Flygon> Interestingly, Govt owned railways used to hire tourist railway locomotives because it looked cool :p 11:46:57 <Flygon> Also, the R-class steam locomotives they hired had more horsepower than much of their passenger Diesel fleet >_> 11:47:09 <Flygon> Still, this explains why German trains are SO expensive 11:47:31 <Flygon> If tickets here were costed to reflect profitable running... well, everyone would drive, and you'd get freeway gridlock 11:47:54 <Flygon> It's cheaper to just offer a 250km ticket for just - dollars 11:48:15 <Celestar> Flygon: the ICE-TD goes 200km/h 11:48:15 <peter1138> yeah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pc8RIsuqM4 11:48:49 <Flygon> Celestar: I really expected faster... 11:49:06 <Celestar> it has a measly 1700kW ... 11:49:18 <Flygon> I really expected more powerful 11:49:27 <Flygon> Then again, from what I gather, it used a locomotive... 11:49:39 <Flygon> Here, the VLocity trains are DMU's, 750hp per carriage 11:50:01 <Flygon> So, typical express commuter train becomes 7 carriages (9 in future)... 11:50:37 <Flygon> 5250 horsepower... there you go, a passenger DMU and a long freight locomotive :p 11:50:58 <Celestar> The ICE-TD has 4 cars, 1700kW. The ICE-T 5 car config has 3000kW, ICE-T 7 cars 4000kW and ICE 3 8 cars 8000kW 11:51:01 <Celestar> just to compare. 11:51:54 <Celestar> That's sustained output, not peak or hourly output. 11:52:03 <Flygon> Ah, so the ICE Diesels are DMU's? 11:52:08 <Celestar> yah 11:52:23 <Flygon> Ah, alright 11:52:25 <Flygon> Well, simple 11:52:26 <Celestar> ICE1 has 9600kW, usually with 14 cars. 11:52:28 <Flygon> Make a longer train 11:52:40 <peter1138> you could use a Class 43! 11:52:45 <peter1138> oh wait, you already have them 11:52:46 <Celestar> 2âBoâ+Boâ2â+2âBoâ+Boâ2â 11:52:52 <Flygon> peter1138: Who? 11:52:52 <Celestar> that's the config. 11:53:00 <peter1138> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_43_(HST) 11:53:14 <Flygon> Oh 11:53:17 <Flygon> The BR125 11:53:17 <peter1138> top speed 240km/h ;p 11:53:25 <Flygon> Top recorded speed :p 11:53:30 <Flygon> The XPT capped @ 193km/h here 11:53:40 <Flygon> Partially due to lower gearing 11:53:49 <peter1138> no such thing as a BR125 11:53:52 <Celestar> so the certitied speeds are ICE-TD: 200km/h, ICE-T 230km/h, ICE1/2 280km/h, ICE3 330km/h 11:54:03 <peter1138> Flygon, reduced power as well 11:54:07 <Flygon> British Rail Intercity 125 11:54:14 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@79-68-111-24.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:54:16 <peter1138> IC 125 11:54:18 <Flygon> The power is RATED lower 11:54:19 <peter1138> != BR125 11:54:33 <Flygon> Doesn't mean it's actually weaker 11:54:49 <Celestar> not sure how fast the ICE3 can go. Velaro E can do about 420km/h with good conditions :P 11:55:05 <Flygon> If geared correctly, I'd bet money the XPT could break 200km/h on VLocity tracks :3 11:55:28 <Flygon> Though, acceleration is a worry... 11:55:44 <Flygon> The best line for it (Geelong) is also one of the shortest... 11:55:46 <Celestar> If you want acceleration you want a Shinkansen N900-I 11:55:53 <Flygon> I'm talking about the XPT 11:56:00 <Celestar> takes less than 3 minutes to 300km/h 11:56:03 <Flygon> Being regeared to Class 43 gearing 11:56:25 <peter1138> old and crap now anyway 11:56:55 <Flygon> Well 11:57:04 <Flygon> Let's see how 30 years treated it then 11:57:23 <Flygon> See if it can break it's old record on actual HST-enough tracks :3 11:57:41 <Celestar> How much high-speed track is there in the UK apart from HS1? 11:57:45 <peter1138> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcH9ZhZPaJU 11:57:50 <peter1138> ^ inappropriate music time 11:57:52 <Celestar> with high-speed meaning > 125mph ... 11:58:23 <peter1138> if you include 125mph itself, then then ECML 11:58:28 <Celestar> I don't 11:58:48 <Celestar> In Germany there's like a measly 700km or so 11:59:08 <Celestar> oh .. maybe 1000km if you include the 230km/h stuff 12:00:41 <peter1138> HS2 would be up to 400km/h apparently 12:00:48 <peter1138> but it's only 192km 12:00:55 <Flygon> Celestar: I meant in Australia 12:01:39 <Flygon> We have a lot of TRACK good for 200km/h 12:01:43 <Flygon> Shame about the alignment :p 12:01:46 <peter1138> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:High_Speed_Railroad_Map_Europe_2011.svg 12:02:03 <Celestar> peter1138: yah that's includes 200km/h crap :P 12:02:12 <peter1138> yeah filter by colour :p 12:02:34 <peter1138> looks like france is winning 12:02:43 <Celestar> SPain is catching up. 12:03:11 <peter1138> russia has a nice stretch :p 12:03:17 <Celestar> Time for Germany to uprate the 280km/h to 300km/h 12:03:17 <Flygon> If there was a map of Australia.... of man, that'd be depressing 12:03:23 <Celestar> since they are built for 300km/h anyway. 12:03:40 <Celestar> plus the map is plain wrong. 12:04:07 <Celestar> Hannover-WÃŒrzburg is 280km/h, except (some?) Tunnels so it should be red, as should be Mannheim-Stuttgart. 12:04:23 <Flygon> Perhaps the map goes for average speed? 12:04:38 <Celestar> then everything would be grey :P 12:04:44 <Flygon> True 12:04:50 <Flygon> Or in Australia's case 12:04:58 <Flygon> Blacker than the depths of hell 12:05:02 <Flygon> ... 12:05:03 <Flygon> Wait 12:05:09 <Flygon> That came out stupid 12:05:13 <Celestar> Australia has more than ... 2 train lines? 12:06:04 <Flygon> Ye 12:06:06 <Flygon> Yes* 12:06:19 <Flygon> We have a crapload of suburban lines, and some nice country trunklines 12:06:29 <Celestar> I would once very much like to cross the US by train :) 12:07:44 <Flygon> http://www.sydney-australia.biz/maps/australia/graphics/australia-rail-map.png 12:08:07 <Celestar> yah I know about The Ghan and Indian Pacific 12:08:18 <Celestar> hence I was thinking two :P 12:09:36 <Celestar> Flygon: http://www.germanrailpasses.com/sites/all/files/germanrailpasses.com/downloads/germanrailpass_pro_0111-map-only.pdf 12:09:56 <Flygon> The map is missing a lot of lines though, in Victoria 12:10:04 <Flygon> Victoria has a relatively dense network 12:10:29 <Flygon> Oh geeze 12:10:34 <Flygon> Germany has one hell of a train fetish 12:10:36 <Celestar> I think this map includes every friggen rail in GErmany. 12:10:44 <Celestar> well we shut down about 50% of the network :P 12:11:18 <Flygon> http://www.vrhistory.com/VRMaps/Vic2000.pdf Victoria 12:11:34 <Flygon> Though, it's outdated 12:11:40 <Flygon> A few lines got reopened 12:11:41 <Celestar> Flygon: there are much much much more people in Germany than in Australia :P 12:12:40 <Flygon> Yes, but Victoria is the size of Polan... actually 12:13:14 <Flygon> http://www.vrhistory.com/VRMaps/Vic1930.pdf :D 12:15:14 <Flygon> Celestar: Thing is, if you looked at the parts of Australia that're actually inhabited 12:15:27 <Flygon> The mass of land/railway lines suddenly skyrockets 12:16:23 <Celestar> well that kind of makes sense :P 12:17:19 <Flygon> I imagine it looks a lot more like Germany suddenly :p 12:21:52 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 12:23:11 <Flygon> Poooooint is 12:23:22 <Flygon> Your rail infrastructure is better and well maintained :p 12:23:30 <Flygon> Ours is literally buckling, barring RFR lines 12:23:42 <Celestar> or rail infrastructure is WHAT? 12:24:06 <Celestar> The main line from Munich to Berlin is currently shut down on a length of about 20 km. 12:24:31 <Celestar> because the condition of the rails does not allow safe operation at 40km/h(!!!!!) 12:24:58 <Eddi|zuHause> <Celestar> Time for Germany to uprate the 280km/h to 300km/h <-- wasn't it announced that new trains from now on will only be purchased for 249km/h? 12:25:03 <Flygon> Really? 12:25:15 <Flygon> And how soon is that being repaired? 12:25:17 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: the ICx? yeah. 12:25:20 <Flygon> And how long has it been out? 12:25:25 <Celestar> Flygon: in total, about 12 months. 12:25:28 <Flygon> Oh 12:25:31 <Flygon> Ouch 12:25:36 <Celestar> It was a test of metal sleepers 12:25:39 <Flygon> Here, 40km restrictions are normal 12:25:40 <Celestar> which are now rust sleepers. 12:26:00 <Flygon> But it's normally just freight lines and suburban lines in slow areas anyway 12:26:02 <Flygon> Rust slee--- 12:26:02 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: well they already downrated the 330km/h lines to 300km/h. 12:26:04 <Flygon> Oh dear 12:26:10 <Flygon> You salted them? 12:26:13 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: why not go further... 12:26:20 <Flygon> Any not use Stainless Steel? 12:26:30 <Celestar> no idea. 12:26:30 <Flygon> Or sleeperless tracks? 12:26:33 <Celestar> it's OLD stuff. 12:26:37 <Flygon> Urf 12:26:38 <Flygon> Well 12:26:43 <Celestar> new high-speed rails are sleeperless. 12:26:44 <Flygon> It's a wallbangingly baffling decision 12:27:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: well, increasing top speed has very little benefits if you don't at the same time optimise the stations 12:27:13 <__ln__> "the sleeper has awaken!" 12:27:35 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I'm not taking about increasing. 12:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause> meaning leave out some stations (lots of political influence there) and adding capacities 12:27:40 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: we need an ITF. 12:27:46 <Flygon> Either way, sleepers here are mostly wooden, with fast train lines being concrete 12:28:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: which they are already trying to incrementally achieve for 30 years? 12:28:20 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I have map. Getting the ICE network into an ITF is suprisingly easy in Germany. It would just need 2-3 new HSRs and a bunch of relatively local modifications. 12:28:41 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: they aren't. ICE1 and the first HSRs were planned and made for 300km.h 12:28:46 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: today, we have .. 300km/h 12:28:52 <Flygon> To be fair 12:28:56 <Flygon> 300km/h is damn fast 12:29:02 <Flygon> And braking on faster speeds is terrible 12:29:09 <Flygon> Unless you use Maglev, anyway 12:29:23 <Celestar> I prefer to think "The schedule dictates the speed" not the other way round. 12:29:28 <__ln__> both maglev projects were cancelled in germany. 12:29:49 <Celestar> crucial point in Germany would be 28 minutes Stuttgart-Mannheim and 43 minutes Frankfurt/Airport-Cologne. 12:29:57 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i think there were three, actually 12:29:57 <Celestar> both is easily achievable with 300km/h 12:30:22 <Flygon> Transrapid tried to get a Maglev proposal built here 12:30:24 <Celestar> there is zero point to be faster. 12:30:38 <Flygon> But Govt scrapped it and went for the Regional Rail Link anyway 12:30:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Berlin-Hamburg, Munich-Airport and Rhein/Rhur 12:30:55 <__ln__> ah, didn't know about Rhein/Ruhr 12:31:08 <Celestar> 330km/h would make sense if you got Hamburg-Berlin to sub-60 minutes. But that's really the least important part. it's already around 90minutes for 300km/h. 12:31:09 <Flygon> Ironically, the link fails to achieve over 80km/h inside suburban areas anyway due to signalling issues 12:31:11 <Celestar> 300km* 12:31:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was cancelled in early development status, though 12:31:29 <Flygon> One would reckon a train that can break 200km/h would have in-cab signalling... 12:31:43 <Celestar> well the track needs to be equipped. 12:31:46 <Celestar> :P 12:31:52 <__ln__> actually, Rhine/Ruhr since this channel is english only 12:32:18 <Celestar> lmao 12:32:27 <Celestar> I'll find that map once. 12:32:53 <Flygon> Speed upgrades are silly if stations are too densely packed 12:32:58 <Celestar> What Germany needs is a HSR Nuremburg-Frankfurt, Ulm-Augsburg and direct Hannover-Hamburg. 12:33:03 <Celestar> it's not that much. 12:33:07 <Flygon> May as well just regear lower and accelerate faster :p 12:33:14 <__ln__> Hanover in english 12:33:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: what does that map say about Berlin-Munich's optimal speed and intermediate stops? 12:35:13 <Eddi|zuHause> (assuming the "ThÃŒringer Wald U-Bahn" actually gets finished, and Erfurt becomes switchover point between some lines) 12:36:41 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: 30 minutes Munich Ingolstadt (possible with minor upgrades), 30 minutes Ingolstadt Nuremburg (possible today), 60 minutes Nuremburg Erfurt (possible after construction is complete), 30 minutes Erfurt Halle (possible in 2015), 60 minute Halle-Berlin (possible after broken track is repaired). Total: 3:30. 12:37:07 <Celestar> or 45 minutes Erfurt Leipzig, 75 minute Leipzig-Berlin, with a total of 4:00 then. 12:37:18 <Eddi|zuHause> "Broken track" is a slight understatement :p 12:37:28 <Celestar> yeah :P 12:37:53 <Celestar> that's with stops in IN, N, ER, HAL. 12:37:57 <Celestar> or IN, N, ER, L 12:38:08 <Celestar> can slot in a sprinter that does Munich-Nuremburg-Berlin. 12:38:17 <Celestar> which then takes about 3:10. 12:38:28 <Celestar> which is a nice speed for around 620km. 12:38:30 <Flygon> Sprinter... gah, too many trains are called Sprinter, hahaha 12:39:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: not a train here, but a travel mode (basically non-stop over large distances) 12:39:07 <Celestar> and it's not that difficult. 12:39:11 <Flygon> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/7007_southern_cross_12_sep_07.JPG Apperantly a Sprinter 12:39:14 <Flygon> Oh... Eddi 12:39:27 <Flygon> Sprinters here are basically Diesel suburban trains that stop every stop 12:39:37 <Flygon> They accelerate very very fast 12:39:48 <Eddi|zuHause> there are trains like that here as well 12:39:49 <Celestar> but we currently plan for 62 minutes Munich-Nurenburg, 66 Minutes Nuremburg Erfurt and 65 minute Halle Berlin. Which means the schedule goes totally bust. 12:40:05 <Flygon> Interestingly, the VLocity trains are designed to operate in MU with them 12:40:13 <Celestar> There is a legal limit to longitudonal acceleration in trains in germany. 12:40:31 <Celestar> it's either 1m/s/s or 1.2m/s/s, can't remember. 12:40:36 <Flygon> (Sprinters can ospeed to 145km/h, VLocity tend to cruise @ 140-160km/h anyway... who knows when you get a VLocity shortage?) 12:41:06 <Celestar> most local trains acheive that acceleration at low speeds. 12:41:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: train intercompatibility is totally underdeveloped in germany 12:41:25 <Celestar> train interwhat? 12:41:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: like operate a 440 in combination with a 442 :p 12:42:00 <Celestar> haha yeah. 12:42:03 <Celestar> works beautifully 12:42:12 <Celestar> until you actually want to move the vehicle :P 12:42:25 <Eddi|zuHause> or even an ICE-T with an ICE2 or somesuch 12:42:27 <Celestar> there 440 aren't bad vehicles. 12:42:31 <Celestar> ICE3 and ICE-T works. 12:42:38 <Celestar> ICE3 and ICE3M works 12:42:48 <Celestar> ICE3 and ICE3 (new) fails 12:43:05 <Celestar> Talent 2 (cough) 12:43:13 <Celestar> worst seats ever. 12:43:21 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:43:26 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never actually been in one 12:43:32 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe next year 12:43:41 <Eddi|zuHause> if they ever get delivered :p 12:43:46 <Celestar> they feel like a rock. 12:44:01 <Flygon> Eddi: Ahh... here, well 12:44:18 <Flygon> Everything's basically compatible with everything, only hairy nosed points are MU trains 12:44:21 <Celestar> I like the MÃŒNÃŒX :P 12:44:47 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:44:48 <Flygon> And even then, coupling and moving is possible, just actual automated MU control is hard... locomotives can hook up together easier than furries in a furcon, though 12:45:40 <Flygon> A dusty worn out 1950s T-class locomotive being coupled to a brand new NR-class locomotive can look amusing... but it works :D 12:45:45 <Celestar> "Local" Train with 200km/h 12:45:50 <NGC3982> I have never played so long on a server like this 12:45:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: sure, that was the case in germany 20 years ago as well... but nowadays 80% of passenger trains are MUs, of different producers and times 12:46:00 <NGC3982> From 1832 to 2202. 12:46:02 <Flygon> Eddi: Oww... 12:46:18 <Flygon> Can they even couple together, and one just tows? 12:46:20 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 12:46:37 <Flygon> Even Trams here are designed to tow... and they don't have couplers 12:46:41 <NGC3982> The last trains i used was the Vacuum Tube Train NewGRF. Are there some train NewGRF's that date after that? 12:47:07 <NGC3982> Would be neat to make a server run trough 3-400 years with continuus new trains or rails 12:47:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: mechanical coupling possibly by an adapter, but electric coupling is already near hopeless, see ICE3 and ICE3 (new) above 12:47:32 <Flygon> You'll need more GRF's.. 12:47:35 <Pinkbeast> Doesn't NUTS go very late? Could be wrong. 12:47:43 <Flygon> Eddi: Electric coupling? 12:47:50 <Pinkbeast> 1832: the UKRS2 Planet, or 2cc? 12:48:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: like, heating, steering, ... 12:48:21 <Flygon> Heating, steering? 12:48:39 <Flygon> Oh, you mean one locomotive controlling other locos? 12:48:49 <Flygon> And MU's controlling others? 12:48:58 <Eddi|zuHause> heat. produced by electricity through a resistor 12:49:12 <Eddi|zuHause> standard since 1920 12:49:16 <Flygon> ...you may have lost me 12:49:50 <Eddi|zuHause> needs a connector 12:49:59 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: eletric coupling is not the problem. 12:50:00 <Eddi|zuHause> this connector is in the coupling 12:50:08 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: the shitty software revisions don't interact properly 12:50:12 <Flygon> The trains use heat to couple together? (?) 12:50:23 <Celestar> prolly all written in some crappy java application servers ... 12:50:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: wtf? 12:50:45 <Eddi|zuHause> "distributed real time java" :p 12:50:53 <Flygon> Here, electronic compatibility is a bit of an issue between suburban EMU's, but towing and multiple crew operation is always possible 12:51:10 <Eddi|zuHause> hence why it takes one second to react on entering a command as simple as "brake now" 12:51:19 <Flygon> Coupling Sprinters to Electric Comengs is not outright unusual... transition coupling is needed, though 12:51:25 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: UKRS2+. 12:51:40 <Flygon> But, interestingly, the modern R-class Steam locomotives are designed for DMU operation :p 12:52:14 <Flygon> Run out of water? No problem, just tell the T-class that's been doing nothing to push to the next station :p 12:52:18 <Pinkbeast> NGC: Mmm. I did find the early UKRS2 years are a bit sparse. 12:53:15 <NGC3982> Yes, the "Planet years" are hard 12:53:21 <NGC3982> But it sure makes a fun game 12:53:28 <Flygon> Oh lord 12:53:32 <Flygon> Planet years... 12:53:39 <Flygon> I kept going bankrupt 12:53:42 <NGC3982> Hehe, indeed. 12:53:51 <NGC3982> But it can be solved. 12:54:07 <NGC3982> Pax only, dual (or triple engine) and patience. 12:54:46 <Flygon> Flygon lacks enough skill slots to learn patience 12:55:30 <Flygon> I'm too used to momentum expansion 12:55:30 <NGC3982> Hehe 12:55:43 <Pinkbeast> I single-headed pax trains, actually, just kept them nice and small and designed routes with an eye to the terrain. 12:55:43 <Flygon> Damn you Alpha Centauri 12:55:50 <NGC3982> I sometimes wish that the time in the game would go slower. 12:55:56 <Pinkbeast> Also short town-town routes can easily be served with horse trams. 12:56:04 <Flygon> Also, as it turns out, Infinite City Sprawl is a valid tactic in OpenTTD 12:56:11 <Pinkbeast> Ah, I was using daylength 4 and sometimes wished it would go faster. :-) 12:56:20 <NGC3982> Daylength 4? 12:56:24 <NGC3982> Can time span be changed? 12:56:33 <NGC3982> Flygon: What's that? :) 12:57:30 <Pinkbeast> Most patchpacks have included a daylength patch, yes - it's a common project. 12:57:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: start on a map with one town and 0 industries (manual funding only) 12:57:55 <NGC3982> I have never used a patch in OpenTTD 12:58:02 <Flygon> NGC3982: http://www.dos486.com/misc/morgan.jpg 12:58:16 <NGC3982> What the.. 12:58:17 <Flygon> Basically, build a crapload of Trams and watch the money roll 12:58:17 <NGC3982> :D 12:58:56 <NGC3982> What game is that? 12:59:06 <Flygon> Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri 12:59:12 <NGC3982> Ah' 12:59:13 <Flygon> Or: Civilization II's sequel 12:59:15 <NGC3982> Cool 12:59:34 *** Pixa [~pixa@79-68-111-254.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 12:59:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: why are your formers not 0-1-2? 13:00:20 <Flygon> Eddi: He built a lot on Planetfall and decided to just upgrade the existing Formers 13:00:25 <Flygon> Rather than build Rover Formers 13:01:55 <Flygon> ... 13:02:17 <Flygon> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2651992/SMACX/ChinaDomination/crawlersareop.png Oh geeze. I was bored that game. I got to around 700 before Global Warming said "^$#& you" 13:09:33 <Pinkbeast> NGC: Huh. I find it vexing to play without daylength, working separation, and cargod*st which means I don't play very often. :-/ 13:09:48 <NGC3982> I have started a new game with FIRS+UKRS2+NUTS on ttd.dndr.se 13:09:57 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: Ah, i see. 13:10:19 <planetmaker> NGC3982, you think it's sensible to mix ukrs2 and nuts? 13:10:51 <Pinkbeast> Won't most of the vehicles just refuse to couple together? But if you want to play after the end of ukrs2 I guess that doesn't matter. 13:11:01 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 13:13:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: so where dis you actually find a "working separation"? :p 13:13:56 <V453000> might be useful for getting nuts wagons for firs, but as most nust vehicles will probably be stronger than ukrs2, I dont see the logic either :) 13:13:59 <NGC3982> planetmaker: I have no idea, that's why i'm trying. :) 13:14:02 <Pinkbeast> Chill's had one if you never sent a vehicle for servicing (sigh) 13:15:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: emphasis on _working_ 13:15:05 <Pinkbeast> And routes didn't get too congested and you didn't mind a bit of manual sorting out and... well, it gave you something to do after you'd built railways over the entire map. 13:15:22 <Pinkbeast> It was better than having all the pax trains on a route running line astern of each other, in my view. 13:16:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: you can do manual separation with stock timetables, but it's very tedious 13:16:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the time-based system is better, but doesn't relieve you of most of the work, like setting up the timetable in the first place 13:17:00 <Eddi|zuHause> automatic separation never works 13:17:18 <Pinkbeast> I autofilled timetables in the final Chills and it worked OK. Not great, but better than nothing. 13:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i hope the new timetable patch will actually help in synchronising several lines, but i haven't tested that yet 13:18:20 <NGC3982> planetmaker: What do you think? 13:18:41 <Pinkbeast> Of course it considerably exacerbated the problems with a vehicle seeking automatic servicing going for the worst depot possible. 13:24:01 <Eddi|zuHause> to quote V453000: you sholdn't do servicing :p 13:24:34 <V453000> :P 13:24:43 <V453000> ever 13:24:45 <Eddi|zuHause> (i'm considering a mode in CETS where maintenance doubles or quadruples if you don't service your trains) 13:25:06 <V453000> nobody cares about costs 13:25:48 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: with non-linear infrastructure costs, i thing we might get to that point where it matters 13:25:55 <Eddi|zuHause> *think 13:26:42 <V453000> of course it can matter, you can always make the player go bankrupt 13:26:54 <V453000> point is, finding the most profittable solution is so trivial that it wont matter in the long run 13:27:27 <Pinkbeast> What I'd really like is a way to make reliability matter absent breakdowns. 13:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the point is, there needs to be a thin line between cost efficiency and expansion 13:27:54 <Pinkbeast> Eddi: Power could reduce when unserviced - that'd get trains into the depots. 13:28:06 <V453000> reducing power or speed when unserviced would matter, indeed 13:28:55 <Pinkbeast> Aha. How about this. Power reduces when unserviced, and the breakdown chance reduces cargo payments - so there is a penalty for using a fast but unreliable engine. 13:29:18 <Pinkbeast> Whoops, canteen closes in 15 minutes. Later! 13:32:46 <Eddi|zuHause> those are all good ideas 13:33:10 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 13:34:06 *** Celestar_ [~vici@mnch-4d04f1a6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:35:48 <planetmaker> NGC3982, I think they try quite different wrt their game play intentions 13:39:09 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-4d04ea45.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:39:22 <NGC3982> planetmaker: I tried starting the game a bit further in time, and yes - the GRF's are not compatible. 13:39:28 <NGC3982> I restarted with NUTS 13:41:42 <planetmaker> technically they might be compatible. But not from a gameplay POV :-) 13:41:59 <planetmaker> or rather: there should be no reason that they are incompatible technically 13:42:25 <Eddi|zuHause> UKRS gets quite bitchy if combined with other GRFs :p 13:42:31 <peter1138> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=64029 13:42:33 <peter1138> hmm 13:42:42 <NGC3982> That was what i wanted to say with incompatible :) 13:42:52 <peter1138> shouldn't it be unreserved when the last part fully leaves the tile? 13:42:56 <planetmaker> yes... likely you forgot to set a parameter ;-) 13:42:57 <NGC3982> Way too different number-wise 13:43:50 <V453000> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/wiki/Usage#Other-newGRFs 13:44:41 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i haven't read the code in a while, but reservation was handled on VehicleEnterTile last time... 13:45:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean un-reservation 13:46:59 *** Pensacola [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:24 <Pinkbeast> I've used UKRS2 with 2cc - not ideal but it works, and it beats having nothing to puts cows in after 1960 or so 14:03:40 <NGC3982> Hehe 14:03:43 <NGC3982> Moo. 14:08:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: yes, that's one of the worst gameplay-violations of "realism" 14:10:27 <planetmaker> very much so. That's... one of the best examples why realism sucks 14:11:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it's already bad enough in DBSet where livestock wagons are limited to 100km/h while everything else may go 120km&h 14:11:40 <Pinkbeast> Pikka and I disagree and it's his set, but... I never met anyone yet who dismantles half their rail network in the 60s (bonus points if you do it in a co-op game while your wife builds an RV network to take over) so why not a hypothetical stock wagon. 14:11:55 * Pinkbeast rather appreciates the headscratching that comes with slow-moving trains 14:12:39 <V453000> What, UKRS2 has no livestock wagons after 1960, like ... they disappear or? 14:13:05 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: basically, yes 14:13:08 <Pinkbeast> The existing livestock wagon expires (and even with expiry off, would be _very_ slow, prohibitively so on any shared network) 14:13:12 <V453000> expiring vehicles? 14:13:18 <Pinkbeast> Because the UK does not now transport network by rail. 14:13:24 <Pinkbeast> *livestock, damn 14:13:30 <V453000> ah, well wagon speed limits are also stupid to use tbh 14:13:41 <V453000> I see 14:13:44 <V453000> well thats retarded :D 14:13:59 <V453000> -> when you dont use wagon speed limits and expiring vehicles, it works? 14:14:38 <Pinkbeast> Um well some of us enjoy having gameplay constraints? 14:14:57 <V453000> that isnt a constraint at all 14:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause> DBSet has a long standing bug where if you use retiring wagons and no speed limits, then the old wagons disappear and the new wagons won't appear 14:15:29 <V453000> especially since the only real solution to trains with different speeds is either timetable speed limits (which you have to update upon every autoreplace so that is kind of not a real option), or splitting tracks 14:15:56 <V453000> and if you split your networks, it isnt a constraint but making it easier 14:17:04 <Pinkbeast> If you have infinite space to build in 14:18:14 <V453000> not just then 14:18:38 <V453000> having 5 simple lines is a lot smaller than having 5 combined lines where any train can go anywhere 14:18:59 * NGC3982 just finished Star Trek DS9. 14:19:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i ended up mostly separating my networks after the train load just wasn't handle-able anymore: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%2013.%20Apr%202027.png (12MB) 14:19:24 <__ln__> NGC3982: congrats 14:19:34 <NGC3982> Best Star Trek series by far. 14:20:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i wanted to finally watch that completely, but got stuck somewhere in the middle of season 3 or so 14:21:04 <NGC3982> After season four, it makes a turn for the better 14:21:10 <NGC3982> A turn for the fantabulous, even. 14:21:47 <Eddi|zuHause> also i think the alternate-universe episodes weren't as good as i remembered them 14:21:55 <__ln__> indeed, it gets much better in the last 3..4 seasons, so don't get stuck at 3. 14:22:10 <__ln__> those are terrible 14:22:23 <__ln__> even worse than lwaxana troi episodes 14:22:39 <NGC3982> Oh god, not Lwaxana. 14:22:49 <NGC3982> But that's TNG 14:22:52 <NGC3982> So it's forgiven. 14:23:10 <peter1138> TNG's the best 14:23:21 <peter1138> that might be just cos that's the one i watched 14:23:30 <Eddi|zuHause> certainly enterprise is the bestestest :p 14:23:53 <NGC3982> Piccard is great, but character development really takes a step up in DS9. 14:24:00 <NGC3982> Gul Dukat, for instance. 14:24:08 <peter1138> what? 14:24:30 <__ln__> there was only one alternate universe episode in TOS, and that would have been an appropriate number for DS9 too, as it's not such a brilliant idea anyway. 14:24:30 <peter1138> i was 9, why would i care about character development? 14:24:57 <NGC3982> peter1138: I'm not talking about your impression of Star Trek. 14:25:02 <NGC3982> peter1138: But about mine. :) 14:25:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm always getting the impression that i'm the only one in the world that liked wesley crusher 14:25:29 <NGC3982> Yes, you are the only one. 14:25:29 <NGC3982> :D 14:25:31 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, yes 14:26:08 <NGC3982> But no, i can't say i hated him as a character 14:26:17 <NGC3982> But he didn't really fit, if you ask me. 14:27:12 <NGC3982> My favourites has always been Piccard, O'Brian, Bashir and the EMH Doctor program on Voyager. 14:27:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the doctor was totally annoying 14:27:45 <__ln__> it's Picard, O'Brien 14:28:23 <Pinkbeast> Dax, at the time. From which you may conclude I was a teenage boy and an obvious strategy on Paramount's part worked perfectly. :-/ 14:28:29 <Eddi|zuHause> almost as much as that nutjob guy what's his name... 14:28:29 <NGC3982> I guess i'm used to the French spelling. 14:28:57 <NGC3982> Pinkbeast: Haha. Ezri och Jadzia? 14:29:03 <Pinkbeast> Errr the first one? 14:29:05 <__ln__> Pinkbeast: you mean Curzon Dax? 14:29:14 <Eddi|zuHause> who in this universe liked ezri? 14:29:22 <NGC3982> I do 14:29:36 <Eddi|zuHause> although i don't think i have seen many episodes with her 14:30:29 <__ln__> she's season 7, so you can't have 14:32:26 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 14:32:26 *** George is now known as Guest4727 14:32:26 *** George|2 is now known as George 14:34:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i meant back when it was new, i missed a lot of episodes during the later seasons 14:35:18 <NGC3982> I did not own a TV until Voyager was airing. 14:35:21 <NGC3982> Aired* 14:35:37 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/TAad6.jpg 14:35:42 <__ln__> as i've said before, you are living in the wrong country if season 7 has even been shown on tv, ever. 14:36:29 <NGC3982> I am pretty sure DS9 was aired in Sweden. 14:36:37 <NGC3982> Or, uhm. Hm. 14:36:38 <__ln__> it's much nicer that 3 or 4 seasons of a series are shown, and then for no reason not the rest. 14:36:51 <NGC3982> Oh, you mean like that 14:36:58 <NGC3982> Yeah, i have never understood that. 14:38:24 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:38:40 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: lots of series have had that fate... 14:38:51 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: last notable was season 5 of eureka 14:38:51 *** kamnet [4a838073@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 14:39:38 <__ln__> happened here with at least TNG, DS9, Voyager, and probably various non-trek series. could be that some other network aired the remaining seasons of TNG years later. 14:40:12 <Eddi|zuHause> worst thing was farscape 14:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause> they only translated season 1-3, skipped season 4, but translated the final miniseries 14:40:45 <NGC3982> Hah. 14:41:04 <NGC3982> I guess it's a matter of money 14:41:18 <NGC3982> You buy a third of the series, and dump it if the rating goes down the tubes. 14:42:00 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: traditionally, series are bought in "package deals". so you buy "all warner movies and series for the next 3 years" 14:42:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and potentially you trade afterwards for series that fit better into your program 14:42:58 <NGC3982> And exclude the not so fitting? 14:43:41 <Eddi|zuHause> well if you have non-fitting series, and nobody wants to trade, they'll just rot in some poison cabinet 14:43:51 <NGC3982> ;_; 14:43:58 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe they get aired at some 2AM timeslot or so 14:44:55 <__ln__> for the most time, DS9 and Voyager were aired either at like sunday at noon, or some day after midnight. no wonder those weren't extremely popular. 14:45:39 <Eddi|zuHause> most times i saw trek was weekday-afternoon 14:45:55 <NGC3982> Voyager was aired quite formidably. 14:46:05 <Eddi|zuHause> varying 15:00 or 16:00 timeslot 14:46:33 <NGC3982> 4-5PM 14:46:57 <Eddi|zuHause> enterprise was totally rubbish, was saturday afternoon-ish and against another scifi-series (i think andromeda or somesuch) 14:47:20 <NGC3982> Enterprise is the latest, right? 14:47:26 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 14:47:33 <NGC3982> Haven't seen a single episode 14:47:42 <NGC3982> It has taken me two years to finish TNG and DS9 14:47:52 <Eddi|zuHause> where they screwed up everything from klingons to borg 14:48:06 <__ln__> TNG was "Raumschiff Enterprise" in german, so what was Enterprise called? 14:48:09 * NGC3982 starts up the Voyager DVD's. 14:48:20 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: just enterprise 14:48:46 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: and the full name of TNG was "Raumschiff Enterprise - Das nÀchste Jahrhundert" 14:49:08 <Eddi|zuHause> (back translated: "the next century") 14:49:55 <NGC3982> That lingual expression of a century was very Vulcan. 14:50:05 <NGC3982> No pun intended. 14:50:09 <Eddi|zuHause> ?? 14:50:31 <NGC3982> Jahr is "year", and "Hundert" feels like a hundred? 14:50:45 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 14:50:48 <NGC3982> Very logical 14:50:53 <NGC3982> Very Vulcan. 14:50:54 <NGC3982> :P 14:50:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it's how 99.9% of german nouns work 14:52:05 <NGC3982> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AECEnj6r6k8 14:52:07 <NGC3982> Btw. 14:53:00 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:53:20 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 14:54:04 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: that's too incoherent for me to watch... 14:57:08 <__ln__> the what-was-the-girls-name linguist character in Enterprise makes me wonder whether the americans equate knowing a foreign language to some kind of a supernatural power. 14:59:20 <__ln__> like.. she hears a 15-second sample of some completely new extra-terrestrial language, and in that time she can figure out the syntax and vocabulary of the language. and if she can't, the captain wants her to try harder. 15:01:16 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 15:01:16 *** George is now known as Guest4730 15:01:16 *** George|2 is now known as George 15:04:23 <__ln__> and such an irreplaceable person is allowed to participate dangerous away team missions. 15:04:53 <Pinkbeast> Everyone vital always takes part in away team missions. 15:05:07 <Pinkbeast> Star Fleet has a very generous pension scheme for officers. 15:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: i guess they needed some "plot device" replacement for the universal translator 15:05:45 <NGC3982> Haha, indeed. 15:06:19 <Pinkbeast> Oh, of course, Enterprise was the prequel where they didn't, eg, get rid of the transporter even though it breaks the plot every episode 15:06:49 *** Guest4727 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:07:01 <NGC3982> Wait, what. 15:07:13 <NGC3982> I just saw how Nog looks without make-up 15:07:27 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a Nog? 15:07:35 <__ln__> Quark's nephew or something 15:07:42 <Eddi|zuHause> oh 15:08:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i probably wouldn't recognize this person... 15:08:14 <Eddi|zuHause> like Worf and other crazily masked guys 15:08:51 <NGC3982> You would recognice Worf. 15:08:55 <NGC3982> That's a big dude. 15:09:11 <Eddi|zuHause> but... they all look alike :p 15:11:11 <Eddi|zuHause> although i did recognize quark in some other series 15:11:40 <NGC3982> The actor? 15:11:49 <NGC3982> Might be more of the voice than the face, i guess. 15:11:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, obvously not the character :p 15:12:09 <Eddi|zuHause> voice is tricky if you deal with synchronisations 15:12:17 <Eddi|zuHause> not always the same actor always gets the same voice 15:12:26 <NGC3982> Like Worf, for instance 15:13:54 <Pinkbeast> Same voice: er except Sirtis's Laaahndon accent sounds sod all like Troi, for example. ;-) 15:15:52 <Eddi|zuHause> what? 15:16:26 <Pinkbeast> Sirtis talks normally with a relative lower-class London accent and presumably might talk like that in another role 15:18:17 <Eddi|zuHause> no clue what that sounds like 15:18:31 <__ln__> the good thing about Voyager is that there are no lwaxana troi episodes 15:19:47 <Pinkbeast> Eddi: sure, but you can appreciate it sounds nothing like Troi - you wouldn't recognise it as the same person. 15:21:03 <NGC3982> __ln__: Indeed. 15:21:09 <NGC3982> __ln__: I'm starting it now. 15:21:18 <NGC3982> Best thing to do on a birthday. 15:21:52 <__ln__> it can be a disappointment after DS9. but it's not that bad. 15:22:04 <NGC3982> I think ill manage. 15:22:35 <__ln__> a colleague of mine watched all star trek movies and star trek series (even the animated one) within a year. 15:22:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i watched the first voyager episodes on some star trek marathon in school 15:23:42 <Flygon> Voyager starts off so slow... 15:23:56 <Flygon> But it gets better and better and better... 15:24:07 <Flygon> It's like that dude in an RPG that starts off weak as hell 15:24:12 <Flygon> But if you work at it 15:24:21 <Flygon> It becomes f'ing AWESOME 15:25:33 <Flygon> The Warp 10 episode is quite possibly the worst I've ever seen thus far, however, in terms of making any sense 15:25:35 <Flygon> G'night 15:27:45 <NGC3982> Hehe 15:28:17 <Eddi|zuHause> "Google Streetview Botswana shows a donkey that allegedly was killed by the streetview car" 15:29:15 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: voyager seems very stretched out in the end 15:29:25 <NGC3982> Hm 15:32:33 <__ln__> in Voyager there's a vulcan in the crew, a vulcan that has made an album where he sings. that's a good sign. 15:36:34 <Eddi|zuHause> so you suggest that sylar should start singing? :p 15:37:22 <__ln__> that would be good. 15:38:26 *** RavingManiac_ [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 15:44:07 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-135-147.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 15:44:10 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:45:00 *** neli [micha@154-238.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:45:31 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-000-179.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 15:47:36 *** neli [micha@30-224.ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:51:57 <NGC3982> Ok 15:51:59 <NGC3982> First impression 15:52:04 <NGC3982> They have tied lot's of stuff in 15:52:07 <NGC3982> Quark is in the first episode 15:52:26 <NGC3982> The admiral that figures alot with Sisko in the war, and the ending of DS9 - is Janeway's husband. 15:52:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that's the backdoor pilot effect 15:53:28 <Eddi|zuHause> you get some familiar people that the viewer is accustomed to to ease into the story 15:54:19 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea which admiral you're talking about, though 15:54:49 <NGC3982> Hehe, he is well present from the first to the last season, but doesn't do anything of great importance. 15:55:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Trek only sprinkles in admirals once in a while to interfere with the storyline :p 15:55:35 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: I like it. It's a good way to start off. 15:55:39 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: http://trekcore.com/gallery/albums/williamross/behindthelines_678.jpg 16:02:08 *** Guest4730 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:09 <__ln__> almost all the star fleet admirals appear to be completely incompetent as leaders, and/or insane. 16:07:05 *** RavingManiac_ [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:08:46 *** SOULNCHAIN [552a85d5@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 16:08:54 <SOULNCHAIN> HEY 16:09:17 *** SOULNCHAIN [552a85d5@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [] 16:10:41 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 16:15:44 *** RavingManiac_ [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 16:16:11 <V453000> hey. :D 16:19:25 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:19:28 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:22:26 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:24:25 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 16:24:28 <NGC3982> __ln__: I noticed. 16:24:34 <NGC3982> __ln__: But that is intentional. 16:24:39 <NGC3982> At least in TNG and DS9. 16:25:37 <NGC3982> I noticed the blunt racism that is present troughout TNG, DS9 and Voyager 16:25:51 <NGC3982> And i read up on it, and it's intentional (and quiet obvious). 16:25:55 <NGC3982> quite* 16:27:24 <Eddi|zuHause> there's not a lot of room for admirals in voyager 16:27:43 <Pinkbeast> Perhaps Star Fleet adopts the earlier practice that captains promote by seniority so you basically have to keep useless admirals around 16:30:36 <NGC3982> nÀ 16:30:38 <NGC3982> Oops. 16:31:13 <NGC3982> One of the pure basics of the entire Star Fleet history is that it's infested with racism and aristocracy, of sorts. 16:31:17 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 16:39:46 <NGC3982> And, to talk of something on-topic for the first time today: The NUTS NewGRF Trainset feels overpowered. 16:40:25 <V453000> like? .) 16:40:45 <NGC3982> That might be just me playing way too much UKRS2+ 16:41:06 <NGC3982> First train, >400kN. 16:41:18 <V453000> UKRS2 doesnt expect you to have 2000 production primaries which is imo a big problem later on 16:41:29 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:41:51 <NGC3982> Yes, i guess. It's not like i'm saying it's wrong or anything. 16:41:57 <NGC3982> It was just a big contrast. 16:42:06 <V453000> however, if you compare NUTS to DB set or Dutch trains, transrapids for passengers with 240passengers/tile and 500 speed, or 60 capacity wagons, I dont think NUTS is rather in the middle ;) 16:42:19 <NGC3982> Though, i have never seen the cute little logotypes between the engine names and the picture in the depot before. 16:42:22 <NGC3982> That was nie. 16:42:23 <NGC3982> Nice*. 16:42:33 <V453000> :) 16:42:33 <NGC3982> V453000: Hehe. 16:43:02 <V453000> if you are interested in knowing more about NUTS, just have a look at the wiki :) 16:43:09 <V453000> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts/wiki 16:43:23 <Pinkbeast> I think in UKRS1 I coped with full-production primaries, but they only started to turn up about when the 9F did. 16:43:49 <V453000> UKRS1 is nice 16:43:51 <Pinkbeast> It would have been a bit messy if eg the biggest engine was the 0-8-0 goods 16:44:12 <V453000> for passengers it is very weak though :( 16:44:22 <V453000> the trains look great but cant handle much traffic 16:44:51 <V453000> NUTS is very strong in all aspects, but not extreme in any 16:45:19 <V453000> for passenger transportation it is comparable to japanese train set, just a bit stronger 16:45:29 <Pinkbeast> Coo, and the 9F's tractive effort is _much_ lower in UKRS2 16:45:32 <V453000> and for cargo, well somewhere a little bit above UKRS1 16:45:54 <V453000> stats change between UKRS2 and UKRS1? :D I thought those were "realistic" 16:46:23 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:45 <Pinkbeast> On the other hand the tractive effort for other locos is unchanged. I think the freight locos in UKRS1 may have had wrong figures 16:47:05 *** Zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 16:47:34 <V453000> well NUTS changes stats of vehicles pretty much between every two versions :D 16:47:58 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 16:48:06 <Pinkbeast> Now I think, I seem to remember - could be wrong, ask Pikka - that the UKRS1 figures aren't limited by adhesion so the freight locos with huge boilers have crazy tractive effort. 16:48:38 <V453000> I dont really care about these realistic details :) 16:50:02 <Pinkbeast> Hm. I tend to feel the acceleration of electrics helps to make them not just interchangeable stats packages 16:50:41 <Pinkbeast> Hm, and the GWR are a bit stuffed in UKRS2 16:52:21 <Pinkbeast> There's a generic 4-6-0 which is much like the Black Five, so their best express locos are missing, but everyone who built Pacifics gets the A4 / Britannia / Princess Coronation / *spit* Merchant Navy 16:54:20 *** RavingManiac_ [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:55:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:fdc9:e1bd:d127:8fd7] has joined #openttd 16:55:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:fdc9:e1bd:d127:8fd7] has left #openttd [] 17:08:03 *** user54367644 [~user@121.187.123.58] has joined #openttd 17:13:10 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 17:14:45 *** user54367644 [~user@121.187.123.58] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:24:31 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 17:28:22 <Terkhen> hello 17:40:04 *** glx_ [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:95d9:819e:f5e6:5070] has joined #openttd 17:40:04 *** glx is now known as Guest4749 17:40:04 *** glx_ is now known as glx 17:46:40 *** Guest4749 [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:00:49 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00b9b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:05:46 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AAD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:16:50 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:22:14 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:35:24 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:41:22 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:44:33 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:45:28 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24917 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-01-16 18:45:20 UTC) 18:45:29 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:30 <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 15 changes by ntchris 18:45:31 <DorpsGek> hebrew - 193 changes by taleinat 18:45:32 <DorpsGek> polish - 19 changes by wojteks86 18:50:14 <__ln__> what's wrong with horse meat? 18:51:14 <NGC3982> Nothing, but someone that sells you cow meat that contaigns horse meat probably has one or two problems. 18:51:38 <NGC3982> Contains* 18:51:53 <NGC3982> If this is related to yesterdays discussion. 18:52:54 <__ln__> i don't recall yseterday's discussion, but i read the news that said britons are upset by horse in their burgers. 18:53:33 <frosch123> who wouldn't be upset about a whole horse inside a burger 18:53:39 <NGC3982> Yes, several processing plants have been selling cow meat that contains horse DNA 18:53:54 <NGC3982> Wich means they either "processed" horse, or fed the cattle with horse. 18:53:58 <frosch123> NGC3982: cleary the cows murdered and ate a horse 18:54:00 <NGC3982> Wich is not so good. 18:54:02 <NGC3982> frosch123: :D 18:55:13 *** spod2000 [025048dd@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:55:42 <glx> cows used to eat cows some time ago 18:55:51 <NGC3982> And we all know what happend then 18:56:03 <NGC3982> It's like Prussia all over again 18:56:10 *** spod2000 [025048dd@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [] 18:56:22 *** spod2000 [025048dd@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:59:30 <spod2000> ey 19:01:42 <peter1138> NGC3982, it sounds like you're suggesting that a cow that eats horse will absorb its dna... 19:02:17 *** spod2000 [025048dd@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 19:02:22 <peter1138> so... if i went for a dna test, would it have traces of cow, pig, and not to mention a ton of plant dna? 19:04:09 <frosch123> sure, if it includes material from stomach and intestine 19:04:24 <frosch123> cows have a lot of stomach 19:07:35 <NGC3982> peter1138: It contained both meat and DNA, as far as i remember. 19:09:05 <NGC3982> And yes, what frosch said. 19:09:15 <NGC3982> :) 19:11:12 <peter1138> anyway 19:11:17 <peter1138> it's a stupid suggestion 19:11:44 <peter1138> it's obvious that horse meat was processed in the same plant 19:13:02 <frosch123> allergy info: may contain horse 19:13:34 <peter1138> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-455953/The-English-horses-sent-France-eaten.html 19:13:38 <peter1138> old, from 2007 19:14:08 <peter1138> just cos we don't tend to eat horse here doesn't mean it isn't processed 19:15:17 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:15:24 <Wolf01> o/ 19:16:19 <__ln__> i've seen horse meat being sold here a few times... it's not common, but happens. 19:16:47 <frosch123> horse sausages are quite common here 19:18:37 <frosch123> kangaroo is uncommon, but it was offered at the chinese restaurant i was a few months ago (though i have no idea how kangaroo relates to chinese) 19:18:40 <peter1138> those cheap frozen burgers suck anyway 19:18:45 <peter1138> i'm surprised they contain any meat at all :p 19:20:03 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:33:50 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:35:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:35:03 <andythenorth> hohoho 19:36:30 <V453000> hi andy 19:37:06 <V453000> andythenorth: please see http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4796 :) 19:37:41 <V453000> I think it is a good method 1. to not show modern cargoes too early, 2. not to make the station set go completely batshit insane 19:37:55 <andythenorth> V453000: you need to recruit yexo ;) 19:38:23 <V453000> hm :) sprites first :P 19:38:24 <andythenorth> so your cargo graphics vary by railtype? o_O 19:38:31 <V453000> yeah that would be best 19:38:39 <andythenorth> interesting 19:38:57 <V453000> it is simple, every railtype has different wagons and for every wagon I drew different cargo 19:39:05 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:39:21 <V453000> so a rail/elrl/mono/mglv separation would work best 19:39:45 <V453000> and as mono/mglv tends to contain wtf, it could be just left out for sane train sets which dont use mono/mglv 19:40:44 <frosch123> night 19:40:47 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00b9b9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:07 <V453000> and in large eyecandy complexes, it is good to have at least some form of control over how it looks 19:41:07 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 19:41:33 <V453000> so while railtype differences do allow for control, they keep the nice logic how chips works -build stuff, done, easy 19:41:34 <Supercheese> Buenos dias 19:41:43 <V453000> elo 19:43:08 <NGC3982> Mmm, natchos. 19:43:21 <Supercheese> nachos* 19:43:31 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> i'm surprised they contain any meat at all :p <-- funny, i've read that same comment elsewhere :p 19:44:07 <andythenorth> Pikka: http://www.brothers-brick.com/2013/01/14/elvis-cant-leave-the-building/ 19:45:49 <V453000> how does that actually hold together 19:45:58 <Supercheese> Can GameScripts build Newobjects with OWNER_NONE ? 19:46:24 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:47:13 <andythenorth> can GameScripts write newgrf for me? :P 19:58:00 <peter1138> yes 19:58:03 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip2.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 19:59:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:06:50 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 20:06:53 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 20:27:31 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:27:58 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:28:02 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has left #openttd [] 20:29:35 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d820542.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:37:35 <Zuu> Supercheese: AFAIK, GameScripts cannot build NewObjects at all 20:38:15 <Supercheese> Aww 20:38:22 <Zuu> For that to work, the GS would need to understand which NewObject looks nice to put where 20:38:41 <Supercheese> Yes, 'twould 20:39:28 <Supercheese> I was thinking maybe to have the GS pick specific objects from specific newgrfs, but that's unable to deal with arbitrary objects, of course 20:39:29 <Zuu> I haven't looked at the spec, but I wonder if the NewGRFs need/can specify information that a GS can use to have an idea what each NewObject is. 20:40:15 <jasperthecat1> Hi. 20:40:20 <Supercheese> the spec has little information with respect to where they should be placed, only where they should not be placed (not on slopes, etc) 20:41:23 <Supercheese> only above snowline, etc. 20:41:51 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0c08ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:44:40 *** fonsinchen_ [~fonsinche@brln-4db9cf09.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 20:52:02 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0c08ed.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:58:24 <Alberth> near a big flat water area, on hills, in particular nice configurations, near roads, .... 20:59:05 <Supercheese> Yes, a mystery, in need of solving 20:59:09 <Alberth> quite impossible to do in a generic way 20:59:24 <Alberth> tmwftlb, imho 20:59:33 <Supercheese> Mm, probably on a specific-grf, specific-object basis only 20:59:42 <Supercheese> specialized scripts or some such 20:59:51 <Alberth> indeed, much simpler 21:00:22 <Alberth> and if you're lucky, you can re-use some GS code between different objects 21:03:03 <Supercheese> although GSes need to be able to build objects first :P 21:05:54 <Alberth> they cannot? :o 21:06:28 <Supercheese> I didn't find any function 21:06:37 <Alberth> that should be relatively easy to fix, would be my guess 21:06:47 <Supercheese> http://nogo.openttd.org/api/trunk/functions_0x62.html#index_b 21:07:04 <Supercheese> Lots of BuildFoo() but nothing for BuildNewObject() or the like 21:07:12 <Supercheese> I could be wrong of course 21:07:28 <Alberth> I don't even know how to do it in C++ :p 21:09:20 <Supercheese> well, bbl, off to university 21:10:30 <Alberth> bye 21:14:59 *** jasperthecat1 [63304048@ircip2.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 21:20:35 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:21:24 <peter1138> hmm 21:21:32 <peter1138> "why isn't this game fast-forwarding...?" 21:21:41 <peter1138> multiplayer :p 21:24:43 <Rubidium> peter1138: that can fast forward... if you modify the server 21:24:50 <peter1138> yers 21:26:55 <NGC3982> When running a game with breakdowns, would you personally think that using depots as buoyes is cheating? 21:28:25 <Alberth> does that matter? 21:28:53 <Alberth> only what you think is fair, counts in SP ;) 21:29:37 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:31:18 <NGC3982> What i think is irrelevant, im simply curious. 21:33:40 <peter1138> what i think is that the green glass roof in newstations is pretty ugly 21:38:19 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24918 trunk/src/lang/hebrew.txt (2013-01-16 21:38:14 UTC) 21:38:20 <DorpsGek> -Fix: string validation 21:40:28 <Stimrol> Hello, one thing about the translation files, it is not possible to translate the seperations in the newgrf downloads 21:40:57 <Rubidium> the what? 21:46:08 <Stimrol> Rubidium, sorry noticed to late. This is my fail is checked the newgrf list for the nightly coop and it had this seperation and I thought that it was a part of the code, on second check I figured it was just them :) 21:46:44 <Zuu> Regarding the task of detecting which string parameter that was clicked, I got a working solution yesterday. On LTR languages it seem to work good. On RTL, the click area is a bit off. Still, not all parameter types are supported and I have not had a look on strings from GSes. However, while I have a solution to automatically insert control codes before/after parameters, I'm thinking about instead adding {CLICK1}, {CLICK2} etc. that have to be in 21:46:44 <Zuu> cluded in strings for the few cases when click on strings will be used. This also have the benefit that it can be used in cases when you want to allow click detection on fragments that are not a string parameter. 21:48:41 <Zuu> Of course it may still be possible to both support manual {CLICK#} control codes and automatic codes for parameters, but that makes things a bit more complicated. 21:50:18 <Zuu> (my solution do not use separete codes for begin/end. Instead the same code is repeated to terminate the click area. The idea is that if ICU decide to shuffle around the control codes, that shouldn't break it as long as ICU doesn't decide to remove them) 22:20:42 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:23:29 <NGC3982> __ln__: I'm trough the first seven episodes of Voyager season 1. First impressions is "I have seen this in my youth" and "Well.. Ok." 22:23:56 <Wolf01> 'night 22:24:00 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:24:40 <Terkhen> good night :) 22:25:57 <Zuu> Supercheese: If GSes are allowed to construct NewObjects and identify specific objects from specific NewGRFs, then *someone* could maintain a GS library which contain code for using specific NewObjects of specific NewGRFs. This library could then expose a public interface that allows "build station eye candy near station X", "build windmills near X,Y" etc. 22:28:34 <Zuu> Having this information either decentralized in each NewGRF or centralized to just one GS library would avoid that each GS author have to duplicate and maintain code for supporting a number of NewGRFs that players will want to use. 22:37:40 <Supercheese> Oh right, libraries, forgot about those 22:49:10 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:50:23 *** fonsinchen_ [~fonsinche@brln-4db9cf09.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:53 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/EAZoP.png 22:52:57 <NGC3982> Ah, i love pax lines 22:53:21 <NGC3982> And i now notice i use way too many signals 22:53:48 <Supercheese> use Pikka's finescale tracks n' signals, the signals are nearly invisible :P 22:54:21 <NGC3982> It feels like that will create more problems than it would solve. 22:59:27 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1AAD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:25 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:32 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 23:25:48 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-78-45-93-70.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 23:33:32 *** joey8 [~JoeEvans@host86-172-150-15.range86-172.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:35:15 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:41:16 <__ln__> http://mars-one.com/en/faq-en/21-faq-selection/251-do-i-qualify-to-apply 23:43:25 *** Superuser [~root@host109-157-97-59.range109-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:43:36 <Superuser> welp, help: http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/el_GR/STR_DEPOT_TRAIN_SELL_TOOLTIP 23:44:00 <Superuser> 'Drag train vehicle to here to sell it'? I had no idea you could do this. Do you mean transfer the train instead? 23:45:44 <__ln__> it's still impossible for anyone to view those urls you paste, without being a translator 23:46:44 <__ln__> you've never sold a vehicle in a depot? 23:48:15 <Superuser> I have, but you don't DRAG them there? 23:48:20 <Superuser> you send them there. 23:49:38 <__ln__> i think you're mistaken about the context of that text. please find it in the game and it'll be clear to you. 23:50:22 <Superuser> OOHHHH I GET IT 23:50:28 <Superuser> yeah I just realised where 23:50:30 <Superuser> it's in the menu 23:50:40 <Superuser> the depot menu, herp derp 23:56:00 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:58:33 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-4d04f1bf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd