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00:03:07 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-10-125.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:04:40 <Bad_Brett> hmm... these animation mechanisms are really confusing 00:04:51 <Supercheese> are you animating industries? objects? 00:05:20 *** Celestar_ [~vici@mnch-4d04e5b4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:06:20 <Bad_Brett> houses and industries right now 00:07:18 <Supercheese> I've not worked on those 00:07:22 <Supercheese> just objects 00:07:40 * Supercheese learns what makefiles are 00:08:18 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 00:08:19 <Bad_Brett> is there any difference? 00:08:46 <Bad_Brett> seems to be very simular 00:08:54 <Bad_Brett> maybe you can help :) 00:09:02 <Supercheese> whatcha tryin' ta do? 00:10:24 <Bad_Brett> Just randomly start and stop the animation... basic stuff 00:13:25 <Supercheese> I guess for that I'd just have a switch that checks extra_callback_info1 (random bits) and returns an animation frame if the random value is Foo 00:14:12 <Supercheese> and then another switch that check animation_frame and tells the animation to advance from Foo to Bar, and stop when Bar is reached 00:14:30 <Supercheese> then it'll remain stopped until the random is triggered again 00:14:40 <Supercheese> in which case it goes back to Foo 00:15:04 <Supercheese> sorry, I used variable names badly there 00:15:15 <Supercheese> I said Foo twice 00:15:20 <Supercheese> Foo_1 and Foo_2, if you will :P 00:15:25 <Bad_Brett> yeah thanks 00:16:38 * Supercheese does not understand makefiles 00:17:38 <Bad_Brett> then the question is... when the animation isn't active... should I use an empty sprite or is there any way i can use hide_sprite? 00:18:20 <Supercheese> hide_sprite: (anim_frame = stopped_frame) 00:18:31 <Supercheese> it'll return 1 if the frame is the stopped frame 00:18:40 <Supercheese> and zero for the other frames (which show the anim) 00:19:30 *** ST2 is now known as xT2 00:19:47 * Zuu hands Supercheese automake aka autohell :-p 00:20:07 <Supercheese> Well, I've never used makefiles before venturing into the world of compiling OTTD 00:20:32 <Supercheese> now I'm trying to make a bundle so I can distribute a compiled win32 binary of New_map_features 00:20:48 <Supercheese> I'm conjecturing there's a way to have a makefile do that for me 00:20:56 <Supercheese> but not sure how to do that 00:21:00 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:21:02 <Zuu> Well, as long as you don't have to write the makefile you don't need to really understand their syntax. 00:21:12 <Supercheese> I have to call it, though 00:21:19 <Supercheese> that's what I'm trying to figure out 00:21:30 <Zuu> I never got the win32 bundle makefile to work in Cygwin, so I've made bundles manually or using a python script. 00:21:52 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 00:22:43 <Zuu> And I'm to found of cygwin to switch to msys and do not feel like having both of them in PATH. 00:23:09 <Supercheese> mingw32-make: Nothing to be done for 'Makefile.bundle.in' 00:23:12 <Supercheese> :| 00:23:22 <Zuu> make --help 00:23:35 <Zuu> look for the parameter to specify the bundle makefile. 00:23:53 <Zuu> Makefile.bundle is probably the one you want and not Makefile.bundle.in 00:24:14 <Zuu> If you don't have Makefile.bundle, then you need to generate it first. 00:24:21 <Supercheese> Hmm 00:24:31 <Zuu> try ./configure 00:25:14 <Zuu> There is also a vbs to generate project files, but it might be that it only chreates the MSVS project files but not the win32 bundle makefile. 00:26:03 <Supercheese> well, what do I need to bundle manually so I can distribute the package? 00:26:09 <Supercheese> Probably a wiki article on that... 00:26:39 <Zuu> Most importantly you need to remember the license file + readme. 00:27:02 <Zuu> Other than that its ./bin and copy ./objs/.../openttd.exe to ./bin 00:27:40 <Supercheese> Makes sense 00:27:44 <Bad_Brett> woah! stopped_frame exists? that will make things much easier 00:27:47 <Supercheese> no no 00:27:55 <Supercheese> insert your frame there 00:27:59 <Zuu> You can also get a zip of a recent nightly to see what it include and compare to see if you forgot some file. 00:28:24 <Supercheese> You have your anim run from some frame to some other frame and stop at the final frame 00:28:36 <Supercheese> put the number of the stopped frame in that pseudocode 00:28:49 <Bad_Brett> ah ok 00:30:59 <Supercheese> Seems strange that the GPL is thrown in a file called COPYING, with no file extension 00:31:13 <Supercheese> probably some carryover from a decades-old practice or whatnot 00:32:37 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:34:24 <Supercheese> .7z can conpress the bundle to 4.15 MB, whereas .zip only gets to 6.30 BM 00:34:42 <Supercheese> I wonder if other exotic algorithms can do better... 00:35:39 <Supercheese> Oh, LPAQ8 gets to 3.83 MB 00:35:51 <Supercheese> almost half the size of .zip 00:36:20 <Supercheese> of course, nobody has a decompressor for LPAQ8 :P 00:37:01 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:37:30 <Bad_Brett> yippiekayey! it works! 00:37:36 <Supercheese> Huzzah! 00:38:37 <Bad_Brett> all thanks to supercheese! 00:38:49 <Supercheese> (and the devs who wrote NML, of course :P ) 00:40:23 <Bad_Brett> um yeah... those guys :) 00:43:07 <Supercheese> Ok, hopefully I did this bundle properly: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=58420&p=1065259#p1065259 00:43:57 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 00:48:35 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:48:54 <Supercheese> So much for makefiles :S 00:49:39 *** xT2 is now known as ST2 00:51:29 <Bad_Brett> I just discovered your new objects 00:51:41 *** ST2 is now known as xT2 00:51:51 <Bad_Brett> quite awesome if you ask me 00:52:20 *** xT2 is now known as ST2 00:52:50 <Supercheese> thanks :) I figured I just had to port the seagulls for OTTD, and in the process had lots more ideas, so I figured an object set was in order 00:53:16 <Supercheese> of course I am working on far too many projects at once, not to mention my university coursework :S 00:54:08 *** ST2 is now known as xT2 00:55:00 *** xT2 is now known as ST2 00:55:34 <Eddi|zuHause> university is overrated 00:56:13 <Supercheese> and that's why you have to do it 00:56:18 <Supercheese> people over-value it 00:56:27 <Supercheese> esp. employers 00:57:26 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.102] has joined #openttd 00:57:51 <Eddi|zuHause> you know, we have a huge debate here over politicians and their doctor's degrees, after numerous cases of plagiarizing 00:59:17 <Bad_Brett> no company has asked for my degree... i'ts quite depressing actually 00:59:40 <Bad_Brett> cause now it feels like it was a waste of time 01:00:10 <Supercheese> Well, we do a lot of preparation for the professional Engineer's exam 01:00:23 <Supercheese> which you apparently must take if you want to be a proper Engineer 01:00:28 <Eddi|zuHause> most cases it was in "talkative" sciences like politics, law, etc. 01:00:48 <Eddi|zuHause> almost no cases of plagiarizing have become known in natural sciences 01:00:59 <Supercheese> Mechanical Engineer, not locomotive engineer :P 01:01:09 <Supercheese> although that would be cool 01:01:24 <Supercheese> I'd rather be a pilot though, much faster 01:01:30 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 01:03:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.162.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:04:18 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p4FC6118B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:18:53 * Supercheese wonders if UKRS2, Av8, and the like will go open-source, but doubts it 01:19:04 <Supercheese> after all, they have successors planned 01:19:34 <Supercheese> oh wait, they're NFO, I wouldn't be able to do anything with the source anyway :P 01:22:41 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:25:52 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-86.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 01:38:23 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:43:15 <Bad_Brett> the seagulls... can ships pass under them? 01:44:38 <Supercheese> Not directly under the tile they're placed on 01:44:53 <Supercheese> seagulls take up one tile that becomes impassible to ships 01:45:06 <Supercheese> they may fly over adjacent tiles, in which case ships can pass "under" them 01:45:48 <Supercheese> but the whole "flying outside the tile" thing introduces glitches 01:46:24 <Bad_Brett> tell me about it :P 01:46:45 <Bad_Brett> i hate when my nice shadows suddenly disappear 01:46:45 <Supercheese> I could just code them as ships, that way they woudlnt block shipping :P 01:46:56 <Supercheese> wouldn't* 01:47:37 <Bad_Brett> can you make objects become auto-doze:able? 01:47:54 <Supercheese> Like building something on them auto-removes them? 01:47:58 <Bad_Brett> yes 01:47:59 <Supercheese> Yeah, there's a flag for that 01:48:07 <Supercheese> I guess I didn't set it 01:48:11 <Bad_Brett> great 01:48:21 <Supercheese> OBJ_FLAG_ANYTHING_REMOVE 01:48:38 <Bad_Brett> can you make them appear randomly during the game? 01:48:42 <Supercheese> If you want a version with that flag set I can do that 01:48:52 <Supercheese> appearing randomly would require an addon Gamescript 01:48:58 <Supercheese> which I have yet to code :P 01:49:17 <Supercheese> also, I think Gamescripts need to support objects first, which I don't think they do 01:49:24 <Bad_Brett> it's should be okay since they're mean to be used near the water 01:50:09 <Supercheese> also: what do you think of the seagull sound effects? Too much, too frequent, not often enough, just right? 01:50:46 <Bad_Brett> i've had the sound turned off... let me check 01:54:04 <Supercheese> Yeah, I think I'll set the anything_remove flag for some objects 01:54:11 <Supercheese> small rocks, for example 01:54:22 <Supercheese> default rocks anything removes, I should keep that consistent 01:55:19 <Bad_Brett> i think the sound effects are good... i added like 15 of them and it's still not that disturbing :P 01:55:45 <Supercheese> Good, I was hoping I had the randomness adjusted well enough 01:56:11 <Bad_Brett> when i see this... 01:56:16 <Supercheese> I had to decrease the probability of sfx-generation so much :P 01:56:30 <Bad_Brett> i realise that openttd deserves a more advanced map editor that can handle these things 01:56:52 <Supercheese> Gamescripts can do a lot of neat stuff with the map, I think 01:57:13 <Supercheese> and the expanded scenario format coming Sometime⢠should be helpful too 01:58:15 <Supercheese> Which objects should have the anything_remove flag set? Seagulls too? 01:58:56 <Bad_Brett> yeah, why not? 01:59:14 <Bad_Brett> it would be weird if they could be used as obstacles :P 01:59:24 <Supercheese> They already can in multiplayer 01:59:42 <Supercheese> Other companies can't remove other companies' objects, IIRC 01:59:58 <Supercheese> the anything_remove flag only applies to owner company 02:00:13 <Bad_Brett> haha 02:00:28 <Supercheese> that's why I included the parameter to have them only buildable in Scenario editor 02:01:04 <Supercheese> although there's not much difference between these objects and owned land... 02:01:21 <Supercheese> might as well set the flag, make it easier :) 02:01:22 <Bad_Brett> the name of the grf could be Supercheese' Birdemic - Shock and Terror :P 02:01:36 <Supercheese> Alfred Hitchcock all over again O_o 02:01:44 <Bad_Brett> :) 02:01:53 <Supercheese> btw I used to live a few miles from where they filmed The Birds 02:01:58 <Supercheese> Bodega Bay 02:02:24 <Supercheese> was before my time, though 02:02:24 <Bad_Brett> oh... so that's where you get your inspiration from? 02:02:37 <Supercheese> No, I was inspired by other computer games of the 1990s :P 02:02:42 <Supercheese> Isometric <3 02:02:49 <Supercheese> (well, dimetric, close enough) 02:03:30 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:03:34 <Bad_Brett> yeah those were the days 02:04:56 <Supercheese> I'll keep the shipwreck non-auto-remove 02:05:14 <Supercheese> don't want to accidentally bulldoze some unsuspecting divers :P 02:07:07 <Bad_Brett> :D 02:08:36 <Supercheese> I should code a circling shark. Gotta add the music, too: dun dun..... dun dun.... 02:09:00 <Supercheese> matter of fact, think I even promised to code that on Simuscape forums 02:09:05 <Bad_Brett> haha 02:13:20 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 02:20:16 <Bad_Brett> hmmm... maybe i should OBJ_FLAG_ANYTHING_REMOVE on indian villages... because that's basically what happened :p 02:23:11 <Bad_Brett> though it might be politically incorrect 02:23:57 <Supercheese> XD 02:41:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.102] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:56:58 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:57:35 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 02:58:35 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:12:48 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 03:38:22 *** ST2 is now known as xT2 03:44:05 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:47:08 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 03:47:34 <Flygon> Bad_Brett: It seems more profitable to just run a railway to the villages and build a station 03:47:42 <Flygon> Because apperantly in OpenTTD, everyone uses the same currency 04:20:56 <__ln__> GOOD MOR/EVENING 04:23:00 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.73.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:23:11 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.73.231] has joined #openttd 04:33:02 <Flygon> __ln__: HYVAA HUOMENTA/YOTA 04:33:18 <Flygon> Or something like that 04:33:54 <__ln__> except for the missing umlauts, precisely like that 04:46:46 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 04:52:57 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 05:29:27 *** DabuYu [DoubleYou@128.250.79.164] has quit [] 05:50:10 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 05:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD596E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66E41.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:29:45 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:42:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:14:47 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-132-199.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 07:21:18 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-10-125.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:23:21 *** snorre [~snorre@c4A06BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd 08:01:56 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:05:23 <Supercheese> Anyone on here that has played with my Eyecandy Road vehicles grf, specifically the Horse & Rider? 08:05:31 <Supercheese> I'm looking for some feedback 08:05:51 * peter1138 puts a microphone in front of Supercheese' speakers 08:06:04 <Supercheese> External feedback. Also, ow, my ears. 08:06:40 <Supercheese> Hmm, adjective "external" still insufficient 08:06:45 <Supercheese> Y'all know what I mean 08:07:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:15:08 *** ComLock [~chrisw@cC165BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd 08:21:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:31:52 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:39:39 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:41:38 <Supercheese> No 1.3.0-beta2 announce yet? 08:48:57 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 08:52:46 <andythenorth> wot no pikka pokka? 08:52:47 <andythenorth> meh 08:56:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:58:48 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:09:22 *** lugo [lugo@apple.bnc4free.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:10:14 *** lugo [lugo@apple.bnc4free.com] has joined #openttd 09:20:54 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:21:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 09:26:58 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0.1/20130116073211]] 09:37:31 *** brambles [lechuck@s0.barwen.ch] has joined #openttd 09:43:13 *** brambles_ [lechuck@ec2-54-228-50-165.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:43:56 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:27:18 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 10:30:30 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:32:00 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:46:42 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-240.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:16:31 <peter1138> quiet 11:17:24 <SpComb> QUIET 11:19:12 <Eddi|zuHause> QUIETSCH! 11:19:54 <Eddi|zuHause> (i somehow doubt these words are etymologically related this time :P) 11:45:36 <planetmaker> :-) 12:18:24 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5794192D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:18:43 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5794192D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 12:18:47 <planetmaker> hm... openttd bootstrap seems to download zbase. I thought it would download OpenGFX? 12:18:48 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5794192D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:19:20 <planetmaker> was that changed (current trunk checkout)? 12:24:29 <planetmaker> he, great. and after 275MB download I get a memory access failure... 12:24:50 <planetmaker> rather segfault 12:38:25 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@82.137.72.38] has joined #openttd 12:39:26 <planetmaker> hm, only an issue with bootstrap. Subsequently it works just fine... 12:41:37 <Eddi|zuHause> how does the bootstrap work anyway? client says "i'm missing a baseset, bananas give me one" - and bananas says "hmm, today i'm feeling like zbase"? 12:43:49 <planetmaker> Honestly, I don't know 12:44:45 <planetmaker> But as it's afaik not explicitly specified... it might indeed work like that 12:50:05 <planetmaker> first entry in available content package seems to be selected. So it depends on what the bananas server sends 12:55:19 <planetmaker> same actually as OpenTTD selects a random one when no specific base set is specified... maybe it should check them for completeness of sprites. Big hassle though 12:56:23 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:56:28 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 12:56:33 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:58:44 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 12:59:41 *** fjb_mobile is now known as Guest1093 12:59:41 *** Guest1093 [~frank@p5794192D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:41 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5794192D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:22:52 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:22:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 13:32:56 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 13:37:35 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:37:38 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:58:39 <Eddi|zuHause> "According to Fox news, solar energy works in Germany so much better than in America, because they get much more sun" 13:59:44 <fjb_mobile> The Fox News version of truth... 13:59:49 <Flygon> ... 13:59:49 <Flygon> What 13:59:52 <Flygon> Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat 13:59:57 <Flygon> Someone 14:00:00 <Flygon> Please, give me a brick 14:00:07 <Flygon> I want to commit suicide with a brick >_> 14:00:20 <Flygon> Because that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard 14:05:42 <fjb_mobile> 14:07:13 <planetmaker> sounds totally convincing, Eddi|zuHause ;-) Especially when I look out of the window right now :D 14:07:29 <blathijs> I wanted to say that it's probably true for some parts of the US, but Google Maps tells me that all of the US is at the same longitude or lower than Germany, so that's not it :-) 14:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause> blathijs: germany has about the same input of direct solar energy as alaska 14:08:27 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/future_tense/2013/02/07/fox_news_expert_on_solar_energy_germany_gets_a_lot_more_sun_than_we_do_video/1360282556772.jpg.CROP.article568-large.jpg 14:08:33 <planetmaker> you surely mean lattitude, not longitude ;-). And lattitude... has mostly an impact on the annular distribution 14:09:08 <planetmaker> barring weather, ofc 14:10:03 <fjb_mobile> There was a study some time ago that showed that people watching Fox News had less knowledge about the world than people who were watching no news at all. 14:10:25 <planetmaker> yup, read that :-) Amused me 14:10:42 <blathijs> planetmaker: Ah, I always confused the two 14:12:00 <Flygon> Eddi: I am disapppointed Australia isn't on that map :P 14:19:08 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody cares about australia :p 14:22:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:22:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 14:23:08 <Flygon> Eddi: In this case, we have a fantastic sunlight map 14:23:19 <Flygon> 90% of the country is basically a giant Arizona 14:25:16 *** xT2 is now known as ST2 14:27:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Flygon: we have such a thing much closer... it's called Sahara 14:27:58 <Flygon> It's not as politically suitable, either 14:28:10 <Flygon> Where would you rather build a gigantic mass of solar panels? 14:28:26 <Flygon> Across a zone that's split across lots of small poor politically questionable countries? 14:28:44 <Flygon> Or a giant island that's a single nation that has no real economic or social issues? 14:29:41 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the current idea is to spread out the solar plants across as many north african countries as possible, to make political impact lower 14:30:05 <Eddi|zuHause> and then draw the power cable through italy 14:32:29 *** Endymion_Mallorn [~pplgoldbl@ool-18b94f96.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #openttd 14:33:38 <Pinkbeast> Also if you split it between multiple countries they have to form a cartel to screw you on price. 14:35:38 <Endymion_Mallorn> Hi, I just installed 1.2.3 on a new machine and went looking for one of my favorite NewGRFs - NUTS Unrealistic Train Set. It is not downloadable in the Online Content screen, despite it being in BaNaNaS (http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/nuts). Does anyone know why this might happen? 14:37:41 <michi_cc> Install 1.3.0 beta, 1.2.3 is too old for NUTS. 14:40:18 <Flygon> Eddi: Oh. Right. I thought the power was being generated for local purposes... 14:40:30 <Endymion_Mallorn> How stable is it, all joking aside? I'm not looking to have the game crash on me. Like, ever. 14:40:31 <Flygon> Here, we forget there's such a thing as "International electricity trade" 14:40:44 <Flygon> Because it's impossible to perform in Australia, PNG exempted 14:41:53 <dihedral> oi 14:42:12 <michi_cc> Endymion_Mallorn: You won't get that guarantee for any version, but the beta shouldn't be any worse than 1.2.3. 14:43:20 <Endymion_Mallorn> Alright. So it's either go to the Beta or just get to the old machine and pull the folder off there with my USB drive, basically. Thanks. 14:44:00 <michi_cc> Somebody forgot to update the topic... Let's see if I can remember the DorpsGek command ;) 14:44:36 <michi_cc> @topic get 1 14:44:36 <DorpsGek> michi_cc: 1.2.3, 1.3.0-beta1 14:44:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Endymion_Mallorn: if you have an old savegame, you should be able to pull the appropriate version that savegame used from bananas 14:44:50 <michi_cc> @topic set 1 1.2.3, 1.3.0-beta2 14:44:50 *** DorpsGek changed the topic of #openttd to: 1.2.3, 1.3.0-beta2 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices 14:46:28 <Endymion_Mallorn> Eddi: Getting a savegame and getting the whole newGRF would involve the same sneakernet process. 14:47:36 <Eddi|zuHause> that is probably true :) 14:48:33 <Eddi|zuHause> on other notes: what's with the Brits' obsession with horse meat lately? 14:49:01 <Eddi|zuHause> they should be glad there's any meat at all in these products :p 14:49:26 <Pinkbeast> It's only a matter of time before Dobbin starts turning up in veggieburgers 14:49:43 <Endymion_Mallorn> Hrm. I 'unno. Alright, thanks all. have a good day. 14:49:45 *** Endymion_Mallorn [~pplgoldbl@ool-18b94f96.dyn.optonline.net] has left #openttd [] 14:57:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.102] has joined #openttd 15:05:50 *** ComLock [~chrisw@cC165BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:34:36 *** flaa [~flaa@89.100.79.103] has joined #openttd 15:41:01 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:41:04 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 15:46:16 *** Polleke [~quassel@phys9212.phys.tue.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:20 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:46:28 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-127-121.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:48:43 <Belugas> hello 15:52:41 *** flaa [~flaa@89.100.79.103] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:03:38 *** ST2 [~JrC@bl6-253-208.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:03:50 *** ST2 [~JrC@bl6-253-208.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 16:08:08 *** ST2 is now known as xT2 16:12:42 *** user54367644 [~user@211.234.220.54] has joined #openttd 16:13:26 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 16:23:34 *** user54367644 [~user@211.234.220.54] has quit [Quit: user54367644] 16:34:08 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:40:35 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:43:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:43:23 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 16:49:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:49:49 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-155-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 16:50:33 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.102] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:07 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 16:52:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 16:56:20 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:59:22 *** fjb_mobile is now known as Guest1117 16:59:22 *** Guest1117 [~frank@p5794192D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:22 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5794192D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:02:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.102] has joined #openttd 17:05:23 *** xT2 is now known as ST2 17:13:03 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 17:13:07 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:20:41 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@82.137.72.38] has quit [Quit: Tvel] 17:24:48 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 17:26:57 <NGC3982> Evening. 17:29:15 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:20 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5794192D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:51:06 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:51:09 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:51:33 <Alberth> plopp 17:52:19 <planetmaker> hi Alberth 17:52:54 <Alberth> evenink 17:54:16 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFDA06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:55:26 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:56:09 *** roadt__ [~roadt@60.168.83.8] has joined #openttd 17:57:12 *** flaa [~flaa@89.100.79.103] has joined #openttd 17:57:25 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-155-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:58:58 *** roadt_ [~roadt@60.168.90.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:59:20 *** fjb_mobile is now known as Guest1121 17:59:20 *** Guest1121 [~frank@p5DDFDA06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:21 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFDA06.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:05:10 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe969.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:06:39 <Alberth> I wonder whether I should tell about light not being visible like in the second picture :) http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1065331#p1065331 18:07:37 <planetmaker> he :-) 18:17:19 <Terkhen> hello 18:18:11 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 18:18:22 <peter1138> ouch 18:19:20 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFDA06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:20:15 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFFFCA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:28:22 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19295.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:30:55 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 18:31:41 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:20 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFFFCA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:56:48 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 18:57:01 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 18:59:23 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5481D377.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:05:20 *** Pol [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 19:12:41 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:12:45 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:12:52 <Wolf01> hellol 19:21:25 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5481D377.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:22:25 <Alberth> hi di hi! 19:25:22 *** Pol [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:50 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5481D90B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:32:50 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:42:45 *** flaa [~flaa@89.100.79.103] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:44:28 <Sacro> \o/ 19:44:32 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-240.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 19:47:33 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:49:11 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-10-125.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 19:49:46 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:50:55 * Sacro is saddened by Pikka 19:51:01 <Pikka> :D 19:51:22 <Sacro> :( 19:51:29 <Pikka> trust me, shami kebab. 19:51:41 <Pikka> I probably know what I'm doing! 19:51:41 <Wolf01> Sacro is saddled by Pikka 19:52:26 <Sacro> Pikka: probably? 19:52:35 <Eddi|zuHause> *must*get*image*out*of*head* 19:53:10 <Sacro> I love UKRS :( 19:53:10 <Pikka> probably. 19:53:18 <Sacro> And TAI 19:53:19 <Pikka> well, UKRS will still be there :) 19:53:28 <Sacro> now i followed your naming conventions 19:54:17 <Sacro> just last weekend I went out on an EE 'AL6' and a 4-6-2 19:55:15 *** TheMask96 [~martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 19:55:34 <Pikka> lucky you :P 19:56:03 <Sacro> 60009 19:56:07 <Sacro> well nice 19:56:41 <Supercheese> Isn't the 75 year anniversary of the steam speed record this year? 19:57:34 <NGC3982> You don't celebrate records. 19:57:37 <NGC3982> You beat them. 19:57:44 <Eddi|zuHause> haven't there been like 75 different steam speed records? 19:58:02 <NGC3982> I was just reading up on my literature collecting, and i noticed something i laughed a fair bit at. 19:58:06 <Supercheese> I mean the British A4 125 mph record 19:58:17 <Eddi|zuHause> certainly we have the fastest operational steam engine over here 19:58:51 <NGC3982> Back in 1980, Bill Gates bought the original Codex Leicester by da Vinci, for 30.8 million US dollars. 19:58:53 <Supercheese> German record was basically the same, like 124 mph, and German steamers' average stop to stop speeds were higher IIRC 19:59:06 <NGC3982> He then scanned it and included it with Microsoft Plus! for Windows 95. 19:59:09 <NGC3982> Money well spent. 19:59:20 *** fjb_mobile is now known as Guest1129 19:59:20 *** Guest1129 [~frank@p5481D90B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:20 <Pikka> onion of seth efrica, hm? :) 19:59:21 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5481D90B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:00:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:02:34 <Pikka> there he is now 20:08:10 *** roadt__ [~roadt@60.168.83.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:20 <Pikka> or perhaps he isn't 20:16:57 <Supercheese> He may be only 10% 20:18:28 *** fjb_mobile is now known as Guest1131 20:18:29 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5794155E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:22:20 *** Guest1131 [~frank@p5481D90B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:26:33 <Eddi|zuHause> if only 10% of andythenorth were here, it would be an, or th 20:26:43 <andythenorth> Pikka ponk 20:26:43 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:26:44 <andythenorth> hello 20:27:07 <Pikka> hello 20:27:42 <andythenorth> so onions? 20:27:54 <Supercheese> I think a better measuring metric for andythenorth presence is TFT [Time to First Troll] 20:27:54 <Pikka> very 20:28:04 <Supercheese> ;) 20:28:20 <andythenorth> Pikka: btw I don't like onions, but that's an aside 20:28:46 <Pikka> talk about 10CC then :) 20:28:51 <Pikka> do you like 10CC? 20:29:13 <Supercheese> 10 cm³ may be a tad small 20:29:23 <Supercheese> model trains? 20:29:41 <Supercheese> :P 20:29:51 <andythenorth> Pikka: yes I probly like 10CC 20:30:02 <andythenorth> 2 mins, food, wife sad if I don't eat it 20:30:19 <Pikka> dreadlock holiday and all that 20:30:34 <Pikka> I have to go, back in an hour or two 20:31:32 <andythenorth> :P 20:31:34 <andythenorth> k 20:31:35 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-243-68.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 20:31:58 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24980 trunk/src/strings.cpp (2013-02-08 20:31:51 UTC) 20:31:59 <DorpsGek> -Fix: memory leak in corner case of handling encoded strings 20:32:54 <LordAro> evening all 20:33:02 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24981 trunk/src/strings.cpp (2013-02-08 20:32:56 UTC) 20:33:03 <DorpsGek> -Fix: handle corner case where an encoded string contains too many parameters more gracefully 20:34:34 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r24982 /trunk/src/script/api (13 files in 3 dirs) (2013-02-08 20:34:27 UTC) 20:34:35 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5465]: [Script] Crash when passing too many parameters 20:36:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6A235.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:41:51 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@88.130.162.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:42:05 <Eddi|zuHause> so that's like the reversal of my newgrf error :) 20:52:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19295.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:58 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so vehicle R&D....? 20:53:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no way :p 20:53:16 <andythenorth> because...? 20:53:19 <Supercheese> implement in the newgrf..? 20:53:26 <Supercheese> Would be feasible-ish 20:53:28 <andythenorth> don't care about where to implement 20:53:30 <andythenorth> is it good? 20:53:40 <andythenorth> ;) 20:53:43 <Supercheese> More importantly, is anyone motivated to code it 20:53:47 <Supercheese> 'good' is relative 20:53:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i haven't seen any good concept yet 20:54:23 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: me neither 20:54:35 <andythenorth> is knowing the forthcoming vehicles a meta-sploit? :P 20:54:37 <Supercheese> Hmm, I think there's a lack of variables for an R&D implementation 20:54:46 <andythenorth> or is learning the game just 'learning the game' 20:54:55 <andythenorth> in Doom....you can play without knowing the maps 20:54:57 <andythenorth> but you lose 20:55:00 <andythenorth> you learn the maps 20:55:01 <andythenorth> you win 20:55:21 <andythenorth> you have to know where the keys are, where the powerups are, where the monsters are 20:59:22 *** fjb_mobile is now known as Guest1137 20:59:22 *** Guest1137 [~frank@p5794155E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:59:23 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5794155E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:03:30 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:06:42 *** LSky` [~x@5ED5A444.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i was always running along the walls trying to find secret doors ;) 21:11:31 <LSky`> im trying to compile openttd using mingw, i intend to patch the client after i figure out how to, what method should i use to obtain the openttd source code? 21:12:03 <andythenorth> hmm 21:12:08 <andythenorth> any secret doors in ottd? 21:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause> LSky`: svn if you don't want to program larger patches yourself, hg or git otherwise 21:12:57 <LSky`> 'program larger patches' meaning? 21:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: does scenario_developer count? :) 21:13:33 <Eddi|zuHause> LSky`: if you have to ask, then it's probably a "no" :p 21:14:03 <LSky`> so i should use tortoise svn, or something like that? 21:14:14 <Eddi|zuHause> that should work 21:14:17 <andythenorth> secret doors would be more like 'provide service for this town and unlock a new engine' 21:15:15 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:36:47 <andythenorth> where is pikka to then? 21:37:32 <andythenorth> herp, what's that faster python called? 21:37:44 <Sacro> ctthon? 21:37:48 <andythenorth> http://pypy.org 21:37:49 <Sacro> cython 21:38:00 <andythenorth> wonder if it makes nml faster 21:38:25 <andythenorth> I can't be bothered to get it and figure out how to virtualenv it 21:38:27 <andythenorth> but I should :P 21:46:17 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5794155E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:47:08 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5794155E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:47:23 <andythenorth> meh, pypy buildout segfaults 21:47:34 <andythenorth> boring 21:59:21 *** fjb_mobile is now known as Guest1144 21:59:21 *** Guest1144 [~frank@p5794155E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:22 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5794155E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:02:37 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 22:04:00 *** Ashik [~Ashik@193.110.106.206] has joined #openttd 22:04:41 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 22:05:17 <frosch123> night 22:05:20 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fe969.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:34 <peter1138> python written in python? 22:08:49 <andythenorth> python written in 'faster' :P 22:11:07 <andythenorth> averaged across a number of programs, it benchmarks apparently at 5.6 times faster 22:11:40 * Pikka is back or so 22:11:43 <andythenorth> even 2x faster for nmlc would be a significant reduction in 'meh, waiting' 22:11:46 <andythenorth> hello or so 22:12:01 <Pikka> r&d is yuck 22:12:05 <andythenorth> so 10CC? 22:12:07 <Pikka> complexity is yuck 22:12:09 <Pikka> yes, 10CC 22:12:12 <andythenorth> hat 22:12:14 <andythenorth> that 22:12:26 <andythenorth> probably good right? 22:13:28 <Pikka> so what about 10CC? :P 22:14:00 <andythenorth> sounds ok 22:14:04 <andythenorth> I like most of your stuff 22:14:07 <andythenorth> so why not eh? 22:15:08 <andythenorth> there has been too much "more" 22:15:15 <andythenorth> there should be some "less" 22:18:49 <Pikka> :) 22:19:17 <andythenorth> maybe I should start BANDIT again 22:19:21 <Pikka> of course, I'll need peter1138 to write me a buy-menu-selection callback. ;) 22:19:23 <Pikka> maybe 22:19:25 <andythenorth> yes 22:19:36 <andythenorth> what for though? 22:19:45 <andythenorth> :P 22:19:54 <andythenorth> maybe we need less callbacks too 22:19:57 <andythenorth> or fewer 22:19:59 <Pikka> amongst other things, so we can play a game where you use british trains and I use american ones 22:20:02 <andythenorth> yeah that 22:20:11 <andythenorth> that's what I want to do with BANDIT 22:20:19 <andythenorth> it was an Original Goal For The Set 22:20:24 <Pikka> I can already make it so you can't start american trains and I can't start british ones, but removing them from the buylist altogether would be so much cleaner 22:21:04 <andythenorth> so is this what I get for asking for more diesels in UKRS 2? :P 22:21:07 <Pikka> and it's not as if different players having different buylists doesn't already exist in TTD, ie the prototype designs 22:21:10 <Pikka> :P maybe 22:21:23 <andythenorth> hey ho 22:21:45 <andythenorth> still, I think there's a game balance / boredom issue once we hit 200x 22:22:00 <andythenorth> HEQS has same, so will BANDIT 22:22:07 <Pikka> well, then you stop playing once you hit 200x. ;) 22:22:10 <andythenorth> yeah that 22:22:22 <andythenorth> play 1870-2010, then go to sleep 22:22:29 <Pikka> nope 22:22:35 <andythenorth> 1905-2005? :P 22:22:54 <Pikka> 10CC starts 1900, and even then you only get one loco per set 22:23:08 <andythenorth> orly 22:23:09 <andythenorth> how evil 22:23:18 <Pikka> 1920 to start with two 22:23:21 <Pikka> well 22:23:25 <Pikka> 19th century is boring 22:23:27 <Pikka> slow trains 22:23:28 <andythenorth> slow 22:23:29 <Pikka> no RVs 22:23:32 <Pikka> no aircraft 22:23:49 <andythenorth> trams? 22:23:57 <andythenorth> very slow ships 22:23:58 <Pikka> and to be "realistic" you have to start with half the industries missing 22:24:02 <Pikka> trams are yuck 22:24:06 <andythenorth> eek 22:24:10 <andythenorth> also the industry problem smells 22:24:14 <andythenorth> it smells in FIRS 22:24:24 <Pikka> well 22:24:32 <Pikka> I coded one industry for TaI/Gecko/whatever 22:24:53 <Pikka> and since I started testing it I've stripped out about 50% of the code as entirely unnecessary 22:25:03 <Pikka> I think I have about another 25% to go :) 22:25:10 <andythenorth> what's gone / what's left? 22:25:48 <Pikka> I had a whole thing where the industry had an internal "balance" and would shut down/upgrade depending on how much "money" it had 22:25:53 <andythenorth> oh yeah that 22:25:55 <andythenorth> you liked that 22:26:03 <Pikka> that's all gone 22:26:11 <andythenorth> probably for the best 22:26:15 <andythenorth> production change over time? 22:26:40 <Pikka> will possibly still be there, but a /lot/ simpler than I originally planned 22:26:44 <andythenorth> I'm stealing it 22:26:48 <andythenorth> so it might not be there :P 22:26:53 <andythenorth> if I've burgled it 22:27:01 <Pikka> also, starting in 1900 means 22:27:11 <Pikka> oil industries, indeed all industries, from the start 22:27:37 <andythenorth> easier right? 22:27:39 <Pikka> "gasworks" can go and just be a power station with earlier graphics 22:27:42 <andythenorth> no fucking around with broken chains 22:27:54 <andythenorth> no fucking around trying to figure out how to cripple some industries 22:28:43 <Pikka> all in all, I want to gamify and simplify 22:29:54 <andythenorth> no model trainset? 22:31:19 <Pikka> nope 22:31:52 <andythenorth> alright, so you have a trains plan, fine. Trains can have more or fewer wagons and crap, and you can build the route to suit performance and such 22:31:57 <andythenorth> RVs are simple 22:32:02 <andythenorth> I should just figure BANDIT out 22:32:04 <andythenorth> but planes and boats? 22:32:12 <andythenorth> what do you do with AV8? 22:32:17 <andythenorth> what do I do with FISH 2? 22:32:27 <Pikka> not quite worked that out yet 22:32:34 <andythenorth> nah me neither 22:33:06 <andythenorth> FIRS gives AV8 helicopters and small planes a cargo role 22:33:23 <andythenorth> but only one helicopter and 2 plane types are needed for that 22:33:29 <andythenorth> and how many big planes are useful? 22:33:39 <andythenorth> 737 / jumbo / concorde? 22:33:40 <Pikka> for av9, it's probably just a progression from little and slow to biggish and fast 22:33:59 <andythenorth> time progression, or model progression? 22:34:13 <Pikka> the decision is "aircraft" vs "train", an additional decision between "aircraft" is largely unnecessary 22:34:44 <Pikka> model progression, no generational stats :P 22:35:00 <andythenorth> so how many plane types in any given year? 22:35:04 <andythenorth> 2, 3? 22:35:05 <andythenorth> 1? 22:35:49 <Pikka> obviously the models have to overlap somewhat, but it will usually be the case that the newest is always the "best". 22:36:08 <andythenorth> I think for planes capacity is a factor 22:36:25 <andythenorth> but only small | big 22:36:37 <andythenorth> 1 chopper, 2 planes, done 22:36:37 <Pikka> yes, perhaps late game there will be a turboprop for smaller routes or something, and helicopters of course 22:36:45 <Pikka> but overall, yep, that's about the size of it 22:36:51 <andythenorth> herp ships 22:37:04 <andythenorth> stupid autorefit :) 22:37:09 <Pikka> :) 22:37:17 <andythenorth> FISH was small 22:37:25 <andythenorth> FISH 2 got needlessly big 22:37:37 <andythenorth> due to Tankers Must Be Model Types 22:38:33 <andythenorth> so 29 ships in 1972 22:38:44 <Pikka> that's a few too many, I think 22:39:01 <andythenorth> about 20 too many 22:39:11 <Pikka> perhaps about 25 too many 22:39:20 <andythenorth> especially if I could figure out the player-gets-ship-types thing 22:39:29 <andythenorth> so player 1 gets canal boats 22:39:36 <andythenorth> player 2 gets sea ships 22:39:37 <andythenorth> etc 22:39:37 <Pikka> eh 22:39:45 <Pikka> does that even make sense? 22:40:05 <andythenorth> dunno, haven't tried it :) 22:40:22 <Pikka> anyway, I think whatever you do, FISH is going to be a larger set than I would design under my new regime ;) 22:40:33 <andythenorth> I am too sentimental 22:40:40 <andythenorth> I like the weird things like the log tug 22:40:46 <Pikka> :) 22:41:09 <andythenorth> otherwise it's all a bit...sterlie 22:41:13 <andythenorth> serilel? 22:41:15 <andythenorth> sterile :P 22:41:18 <andythenorth> fingers fingers 22:41:27 <Pikka> well, one thing I may not have mentioned, and may write another blog post about... 22:41:34 <andythenorth> orly? 22:41:58 <Pikka> aside from the lengthwise shortening, which is unavoidable 22:42:23 <Pikka> I'm abandoning TTD's crappy mis-shapen diagonals and drawing vehicles properly 22:42:45 *** zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:53 <andythenorth> interesting 22:43:01 <Pikka> which means that everything has to be drawn from scratch 22:43:06 <andythenorth> will they still be teeny-tiny? 22:43:12 <Pikka> a factor in not wanting to do many vehicles, you think? ;) 22:43:23 <andythenorth> :P 22:43:26 *** zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 22:43:32 <Pikka> the - and | views remain the same size 22:43:41 <Pikka> the diagonal views look bigger 22:43:54 <andythenorth> oh 22:44:02 <andythenorth> well if you're doing that, it saves me redrawing HEQS 22:44:08 <Pikka> :] 22:44:09 <andythenorth> which I drew wrong, from ignorance :P 22:44:18 <Pikka> you drew right, from ignorance? ;) 22:44:32 <andythenorth> I just drew how I thought it should be 22:44:40 <andythenorth> might be right or wrong :P 22:44:56 <andythenorth> no tankers gets FISH 2 down to 22 22:45:20 <andythenorth> ah 22:45:33 <andythenorth> ships have a capacity issue that I just can't get around 22:45:40 <andythenorth> and pax and freight ships are just different 22:45:47 <Pikka> what capacity issue? 22:46:02 <andythenorth> big ones and small ones are needed 22:46:08 <andythenorth> and running 10x small one is dull 22:46:21 <Pikka> if I were doing ships 22:46:25 <andythenorth> do mine 22:46:27 <andythenorth> I have the graphics :P 22:46:31 <andythenorth> and the code generator :P 22:46:40 <Pikka> you don't have sailing ships 22:46:42 <Pikka> :P 22:46:54 <andythenorth> they smell 22:46:58 <andythenorth> and are dead by 1900 22:47:16 <Pikka> except they aren't 22:47:27 <peter1138> just make them collide 22:47:29 <andythenorth> well someone was drawing sails 22:47:29 <peter1138> in newgrf 22:47:53 <Pikka> they were still building new pure-sail merchant ships in the 20th century 22:48:07 <Pikka> they were still running in commercial service up til the 1950s 22:48:13 <Pikka> anyway, who cares about realism? ;) 22:48:34 <andythenorth> drawing sails, meh 22:48:39 <andythenorth> assume no sails :P 22:48:41 <andythenorth> then what? 22:48:47 <Pikka> anyway, if I were doing ships, I'd have "ships" and "ferries" 22:48:57 <andythenorth> I have that, plus 'stuff' 22:49:11 <Pikka> ships are slow and big and carry stuff, ferries are small and fast and carry pax/mail (both would be nice, where's articulated ships?) 22:49:42 <andythenorth> k 22:50:16 <andythenorth> and you'd use same boats for canals / rivers, and for sea? 22:50:39 <Pikka> a sailing ship from 18whatever, steam from, eh, 1925, diesel from 1960, maybe a "modern" for 1990s or so, that's 4 22:50:54 <Pikka> yes 22:51:35 <andythenorth> too many ships in FISH 2 are there because of a nice photo 22:51:49 <andythenorth> or because it was easy to copy-paste-shorten something already drawn 22:52:18 <Pikka> ferries you've got a steamer from 19whatever, maybe another in the 30s, hovercraft, catermaran 22:52:31 <Pikka> maybe if you want a utility boat you can have one, steam early, diesel later, that's 2 22:52:38 <Pikka> 10 ships, do you need more? 22:52:44 <andythenorth> I probably do 22:52:45 <peter1138> 200 ships 22:52:51 <peter1138> with short lives 22:52:53 <andythenorth> I'm not ready to be that ruthless yet :) 22:52:57 <peter1138> cos they sink 22:53:02 <Pikka> I am :] 22:53:03 <andythenorth> sinking ftw 22:53:05 <andythenorth> I like editing stuff down 22:53:05 <Pikka> you sink, peter 22:53:09 <peter1138> YES 22:53:14 <andythenorth> FIRS Basic is kind of better than big FIRS 22:53:17 <Pikka> where's my buylist callback? ;) 22:53:22 <andythenorth> is it not done yet> 22:53:33 <andythenorth> Pikka: cbs are easy 22:53:33 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf does 10CC mean anyway? 22:53:36 <andythenorth> do it yourself 22:53:40 <Pikka> maybe I will 22:53:46 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds awfully confusable to 2CC 22:53:55 <andythenorth> just search for the climate availability stuff and mash it in there 22:53:57 <Pikka> I just figure peter could do it easier since he already has the knowhow and whatnot :) 22:54:08 <andythenorth> he just makes it up too 22:54:24 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-155-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 22:54:29 <Pikka> 10CC UK buylist is 22:54:34 <Pikka> Victoria Crab Jubilee Class 37 Class 66 Class 86 Class 92 MetCam HST ElectroStar 22:54:39 <andythenorth> is the name a dirty joke? 22:54:48 <andythenorth> herp 22:54:48 <Pikka> not at all 22:54:52 <andythenorth> I'm going to make 5CC 22:54:59 <peter1138> 10 company colours? 22:55:15 <Pikka> 10 company coloured locos, or something 22:55:17 <andythenorth> Jinty, Pannier, Ivatt, Class 20, Class BLAH I DON'T KNOW 22:55:35 * andythenorth likes small trains 22:55:56 * Supercheese likes FISH with all its ships 22:55:56 <Pikka> well, the "flavour" of the UK trains is that they're fast but relatively unpowerful 22:56:10 <Pikka> if you want small and slow, there are other 10CC sets for that ;) 22:56:19 <andythenorth> SARS! 22:56:22 <andythenorth> and AUARS! 22:56:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: my point was for every fast expensive train there should be also a strong slow one and a slow cheap one 22:56:55 <Pikka> 10CC Pineapple is good 22:57:13 <Pikka> fastest non-electric is 60mph 22:57:20 <Pikka> fastest non-emu is 65 ;) 22:57:23 <Supercheese> I have FISH r953, year 1899 and I'm using 8/12 ship models available 22:58:11 <Supercheese> the diversity is desirable, IMO 22:58:20 <andythenorth> Supercheese: but by 2000, in FISH 2 there are 38 ships available 22:58:23 <andythenorth> all different 22:58:24 <andythenorth> but meh 22:58:51 <Pikka> Eddi: why? 22:59:01 <Supercheese> Well, the two hydrofoils are straight upgrades, and then the catamaran comes out and it's inferior in every way almost 22:59:10 <Supercheese> I dunno why you could use the catamaran... 22:59:13 <Supercheese> would* 22:59:22 *** fjb_mobile is now known as Guest1152 22:59:22 *** Guest1152 [~frank@p5794155E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:23 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5794155E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:59:24 <Pikka> if every set has fast expensive and strong slow and slow cheap 22:59:31 <Supercheese> but I end most games before 1990 anyway :S 22:59:36 <andythenorth> Supercheese: cheaper, more pax, but yes 22:59:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: because you're going to have passenger service, freight service and feeder service in your game, and an engine suitible for one may not be suitible for the others 22:59:48 <andythenorth> the catamaran got drawn by a contributor, I had to fit it in 22:59:53 <Supercheese> well, that's fine then 22:59:54 <Pikka> then what's the difference between the sets? 23:00:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: they differ in how strong and how fast 23:00:11 <Supercheese> no work on your behalf to draw graphics = might as well include it 23:00:12 <andythenorth> Pikka: a big thing here is you're making n sets? to mix? 23:00:21 <andythenorth> ECS style? 23:00:22 <Supercheese> drawing graphics is, like, 98% of the time spent for me 23:00:24 <Pikka> well, not necessarily to mix 23:00:31 <Supercheese> code is cake 23:00:44 <andythenorth> Supercheese: you're doing objects right? 23:00:51 <Supercheese> I'm doing a few things at once 23:00:55 <Supercheese> objects being one 23:00:58 <andythenorth> objects: 98% drawing, 2% code 23:01:00 <Pikka> but to make the game more interesting. a game where the player has all the tools to do whatever they like perfectly optimally is a rather dull game. :) 23:01:07 <Supercheese> Eyecandy vehicles being another 23:01:24 <andythenorth> vehicle set: 60% drawing, 1% code, 39% being figuring out the fricking game balance, and endlessly shuffling crap around to make it make sense 23:01:35 <Supercheese> Well, no balancing needed for eyecandy vehicles :P 23:01:38 <andythenorth> :) 23:01:44 * Supercheese is sort of cheating in that regard 23:01:54 <Supercheese> Running costs? Purchase costs? Zero! 23:02:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: e.g. if i compare pre-WWII german engines to pre-WWII austrian engines, then the german version of the E18 (electric express engine) is slightly faster, but the austrian is slightly stronger 23:02:03 <Supercheese> reliability? who the fuck cares! 23:02:03 <andythenorth> Pikka: could you do this if you had contributors sending random graphics? 23:02:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: but there is no reason why both sets couldn't offer a steam shunter at the same time 23:02:39 <Pikka> this is why I don't collaborate, andythenorth ;) 23:03:06 <andythenorth> herp 23:03:06 <Pikka> even UKRS2+ I regretted almost immediately :P 23:03:07 <andythenorth> yes 23:03:08 <Supercheese> Pikka: then what is UKRS2+? 23:03:10 <Supercheese> oh 23:03:13 <Supercheese> ninja'd 23:03:47 <andythenorth> I'm incredibly grateful for the help, but the game balance of FISH 2 and FIRS has been knocked out by contributions that I don't want to reject 23:03:54 <Pikka> yep 23:04:11 <Terkhen> good night 23:04:15 <andythenorth> if I reject them, I piss people off, and have to draw everything myself 23:04:15 <Supercheese> Honestly, if I had people submitting complete graphics and vehicle statistics, I'd code them into a vehicle set. I think I volunteered for just that with a train set but I've yet to hear from planetmaker 23:04:16 <Pikka> goodnight Terkhen 23:04:17 <andythenorth> bye Terkhen 23:04:30 <Pikka> but it's no fun coding stuff you're not interested in 23:04:49 <Supercheese> well, true enough 23:04:56 <andythenorth> time for SmallFISH 23:05:01 <Supercheese> FRY 23:05:07 <andythenorth> yeah 23:05:08 <Supercheese> :D 23:05:13 <andythenorth> I like CHIPS 23:05:20 <Supercheese> As do I 23:05:20 <andythenorth> I kept CHIPS pretty small 23:05:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: so if i select the german "theme" i get express engines that are better on flat land, if i select austrian then they're better on mountains/curves 23:05:31 <andythenorth> I don't need 1 bazillion stations 23:05:32 * Supercheese has too many station newgrfs 23:05:41 <Supercheese> although in this game let me see... 23:05:43 <Pikka> Eddi: the reason for restricting the buy menu so much is so that the differences are exaggerated. I wouldn't have "the german version of the E18" in one set and "the austrian version of the E18" in another. 23:06:13 <Pikka> I would include "whichever loco fits the caracature I'm trying to paint". 23:06:30 <andythenorth> otoh Pikka wants me to add lots of station tiles to CHIPS, due to 'the default stations smell' 23:06:37 <andythenorth> naughty pikka 23:06:41 <Pikka> no I don't 23:06:47 <andythenorth> :) 23:06:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: and i think this will make the game really boring 23:06:48 <Pikka> I just want you to stop building default stations :P 23:06:54 <andythenorth> I like them :P 23:07:07 * Pikka will do a base set 23:07:11 <Supercheese> I've built station tiles from 8/18 station grfs loaded (but some have date restrictions so I can't use them in 1899 yet) 23:07:13 <Pikka> then you can build default stations 23:07:15 <andythenorth> he 23:07:24 <Supercheese> others I should axe, I won't use them 23:07:39 <Supercheese> but meh, 127 grfs loadable 23:07:40 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-243-68.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:07:47 <andythenorth> so CHIPS: 8 tiles for stations walking, 2 mineral loaders, sheep, pigs and cows 23:07:51 <Pikka> well, each to their own, Eddi :) 23:07:53 <andythenorth> what more could ever be needed? 23:07:59 <Pikka> nothing 23:08:11 <Supercheese> well, more cargo support perhaps 23:08:14 <andythenorth> meh 23:08:16 <andythenorth> maybe 23:08:20 <Supercheese> steal graphics from NUTS 23:08:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i don't see the point in a "you only have express engines" and a "you only have shunting engines" set 23:08:24 <Supercheese> or well, he's offering them 23:08:29 <Supercheese> no stealing necessary 23:09:06 <andythenorth> so BANDIT 23:09:10 <Pikka> yes 23:09:16 <andythenorth> 1 x small truck for town and farm stuff 23:09:22 <andythenorth> non-articulated 23:09:32 <andythenorth> 1 x articulated truck, refits anything anywhere 23:09:37 <Pikka> hmm, that's a good point 23:09:42 <andythenorth> and some randoms that I can't resist adding :P 23:09:50 <Pikka> I should knock out about half of the already tiny HOQVS buy list :D 23:10:00 <Supercheese> HOQVS? 23:10:01 <andythenorth> you really only need 2 trucks at any time 23:10:04 * Supercheese googles 23:10:06 <Pikka> yes 23:10:07 <andythenorth> 10t, 20t 23:10:21 <andythenorth> or if you have NA, or AU you get B doubles, so 40t 23:10:30 <andythenorth> end of, done done 23:10:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think trucks need exaggerated vehicle loads to be useful 23:10:35 <Supercheese> all the Google results are from this IRC channel 23:10:45 * Pikka considered learning to drive a B double, just for the fun of it 23:10:48 <Supercheese> HOQVS; what is 23:10:53 <andythenorth> Pikka: what's to learn? 23:10:55 <Pikka> or at least an HC semi 23:10:59 <Pikka> well 23:11:00 <andythenorth> get in, press go, try to avoid corners 23:11:12 <andythenorth> you don't need to worry much about brakes 23:11:13 <Pikka> "learn" == "get licence for" 23:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and park backwards? :p 23:11:21 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: this is AU 23:11:28 <andythenorth> you just turn around and park forwards 23:11:34 <andythenorth> the parking lot is 4 miles wide 23:11:52 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: doesn't help you navigate to the loading bay 23:11:57 <andythenorth> and braking is a non issue, you can either drive through most stuff, or it's going to kill you 23:12:14 <Pikka> :) 23:12:27 * Pikka remembers riding around with heavy towtruck drivers 23:12:27 <andythenorth> meh, I can't bring myself to kill enough FISH 23:12:31 <Pikka> they don't wear seatbelts 23:12:31 <Supercheese> running over vermin might even be encouraged 23:12:40 <Supercheese> lessen the infestation eh 23:12:44 <Pikka> they don't need to, they could run over a house and not even feel it 23:13:03 <andythenorth> if they hit something big enough to stop the truck, they won't survive anyway 23:13:23 <Pikka> mmhm 23:13:27 <andythenorth> if I remove autorefit, FISH gets smaller 23:13:37 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:13:43 <andythenorth> or if we 'fix' autorefit 23:14:27 <Supercheese> Oy vey, the daylength topic 23:14:33 <Supercheese> it's like the 2.0 thread all over again 23:14:49 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so trucks: one single box (piece), one single open (bulk) one single tank (liquid) and one articulated (everything), then have "generations" that get faster/stronger/cheaper? 23:15:05 <Pikka> http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/ofarrell-makes-way-for-btriples-to-hit-the-hume-20121229-2c0b5.html 23:15:08 <Pikka> soon (tm) 23:15:14 <Supercheese> andythenorth: if you remove autorefit from FISH, I will forever use old versions 23:15:22 <andythenorth> gah, I forgot that I have to do different bodies for non-articulated trucks 23:15:23 <Supercheese> mandatory feature IMHO 23:15:30 <andythenorth> yeah, ok, screw BANDIT 23:15:34 <andythenorth> I cba with all that 23:15:39 <Supercheese> I can no longer use NARS due to no autorefir :( 23:15:45 <Supercheese> refit* 23:15:51 <andythenorth> Pikka: yeah those, that's what BANDIT was invented for 23:15:54 <andythenorth> that and small farm trucks 23:15:54 * Supercheese could code an addon grf but MEH 23:16:30 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: those should really go into HEQS 23:16:48 <andythenorth> nah, AU parameter on BANDIT 23:17:06 <andythenorth> they're on-highway vehicles, HEQS is off-highway 23:17:30 <Supercheese> that silly hi-rail truck that nobody ever uses :P 23:17:48 <Pikka> you don't have quaddogs in the UK either, do you? standard construction trucks here. 23:18:03 <Pikka> http://www.theweeklyadvertiser.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/A_11_21543_19191_A_1.jpg 23:18:20 <andythenorth> same in canada 23:18:26 <andythenorth> but...they're not going in BANDIT :P 23:18:35 <Pikka> why not? :P 23:18:41 <andythenorth> because because 23:18:53 <andythenorth> how many truck types do you need? :P 23:18:59 <Pikka> two 23:19:06 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody built long-nosed trucks in europe for decades 23:19:06 <andythenorth> you get a B Double, and a delivery truck 23:19:07 <Pikka> b triples and quad dogs :P 23:19:17 <andythenorth> and they're different how? :P 23:19:27 <Pikka> good question 23:19:47 <andythenorth> faster / stronger / better? 23:19:52 <andythenorth> look different? :P 23:19:58 <Pikka> at least one of those 23:20:08 <andythenorth> lower capacity and slower than a B triple 23:20:10 <Pikka> see, I'm much more in favour of large sets 23:20:15 <Pikka> when I don't have to make them myself 23:20:16 <Pikka> :P 23:20:18 <andythenorth> it's a bad habit 23:20:22 <andythenorth> easily done 23:20:46 <andythenorth> I tried having a range of 'vocational' trucks in BANDIT 23:20:56 * Supercheese inspects FIRS translations 23:21:11 <andythenorth> i.e. construction / loggers, heavy chassis, high hp, lower speed 23:21:18 <andythenorth> but they have no gameplay purpose at all 23:21:32 <andythenorth> TTD trucks don't get bogged in mud and throw off their diffs or springs 23:21:57 <andythenorth> that daylength page is Wall Of Text, always a bad sign 23:22:04 <Pikka> yep 23:23:41 <Supercheese> Pikka's blog was Wall of Text-ish, what about that? :P 23:24:11 <Supercheese> Oh wait, it had pretty pictures 23:24:18 <Supercheese> Disregard :) 23:24:25 <andythenorth> Pikka: for BANDIT-AU you get one of these, and a B-triple http://www.carsguide.com.au/images/uploads/mitsubishi-fuso-canter-Hero.jpg 23:24:46 <andythenorth> and whatever is in HEQS 23:24:58 <Pikka> that's pretty small D: 23:25:02 <andythenorth> call it 10t 23:25:08 <andythenorth> maybe 15 23:25:23 <Pikka> more like 2 :P but yes, "realism(tm)" 23:25:25 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 23:25:32 <andythenorth> the whole low capacity NARS thing has screwed up my perception of capacities :P 23:26:02 <Pikka> can you drive a truck like this on a normal car licence in the UK? 23:26:24 <Supercheese> andythenorth: FIRS strings of "Current production: blah", I am in favor of capitalizing the Blah, so Current production: Normal 23:26:35 <Supercheese> This is consistent with e.g. vehicle buy menu 23:26:37 <andythenorth> Pikka: dunno 23:26:44 <andythenorth> Supercheese: buy menu is wrong :( 23:26:49 <Pikka> you can in australia 23:26:51 <andythenorth> don't capitalise after a colon 23:26:56 <Pikka> which is why there are so many of them here 23:26:58 <Supercheese> "Refittable to: Passengers" 23:27:00 <Supercheese> capitalized 23:27:07 <andythenorth> someone should go up to chipping sodbury and sort out Microprose 23:27:12 <andythenorth> with a grammar lesson 23:27:16 <andythenorth> oh refittable : 23:27:19 <andythenorth> that's just wrong 23:27:26 <andythenorth> someone should call .lower() on it :P 23:27:41 <Supercheese> "Suitable for: Freight" 23:27:48 * Supercheese moves for capitalizing 23:27:50 <andythenorth> Pikka: oh, ok, this one then http://www.mitfuso.com/en-US/Canter-Work-Truck-Models/FE180 23:28:14 <Pikka> neat 23:28:24 <andythenorth> still 5t irl 23:28:25 <Supercheese> I was dubbed official US English translator, no? 23:28:26 <andythenorth> trucks are crapy 23:28:45 * Supercheese capitalizes the stuff in US English .lng 23:28:51 <Pikka> 5t? 23:29:06 <andythenorth> payload apparently 23:29:09 <Pikka> yes 23:29:18 <Pikka> does nars have low capacity? :P 23:29:27 <andythenorth> a bethgon is about 70-100t irl 23:29:36 <andythenorth> Supercheese: ok, you win 23:29:42 <andythenorth> town rating is capitalised too 23:29:44 <andythenorth> wrong wrong, but meh 23:29:48 <Pikka> eh 23:29:52 <Supercheese> Consistency over correctness! 23:29:56 <Supercheese> :P 23:30:00 <Pikka> yes, but compared to the default TTD vehicles they're not low capacity 23:30:10 <Supercheese> I can do it for UK english too 23:30:30 <Pikka> you can have realistic capacity wagons like the japanset, then all your trains end up running around with 3 wagons 23:30:45 <andythenorth> Supercheese: ok, if it pleases you go ahead 23:30:54 <Supercheese> it verily doth 23:30:59 <andythenorth> so the question is, how much cap. for trucks? 23:31:05 <andythenorth> realism? or more? or less? 23:31:08 <Pikka> something game balanced 23:31:11 <Pikka> realism sucks 23:31:14 <andythenorth> I want a small truck with 15t, and a bigger truck with a lot more 23:31:25 <Pikka> that'll do then :P 23:32:30 <andythenorth> I need this views thingy frosch has threatened to do 23:32:36 <Supercheese> whoah, the English_AU.lng has all of two entries 23:32:38 <andythenorth> but it needs to sort out autorefit 23:32:42 <Supercheese> is that... legal? 23:32:51 <Supercheese> Just include the strings that are different? O_o 23:32:54 <andythenorth> yes 23:32:58 <andythenorth> don't replicate 23:33:03 * Supercheese was unaware 23:33:04 <andythenorth> changes in two places are silly 23:33:15 * Supercheese will remove unchanged strings 23:33:28 <andythenorth> would have been easier to start with an empty file :) 23:33:30 <andythenorth> but too late 23:33:39 <Supercheese> :S 23:33:50 <Supercheese> WinMerge ho 23:34:07 <Supercheese> inverse merge? subtract? 23:35:50 <andythenorth> diff 23:36:26 <andythenorth> Pikka: so now I have to go sleep and dream of which ships to delete :P 23:36:42 <andythenorth> I kind of like the continent / region thing 23:36:44 <Pikka> :) good luck 23:36:48 <andythenorth> dunno how to apply it to ships 23:37:28 <Pikka> I wouldn't try, it's not really applicable 23:37:44 <andythenorth> I still think sea vs. inland might work 23:37:57 <andythenorth> and each type is crippled for the other water type 23:38:10 <andythenorth> harsh 23:38:30 <Pikka> maybe 23:38:41 <andythenorth> or arbitrary nonsense 23:38:50 <andythenorth> like player 1 gets the 'big big coaster' 23:38:56 <andythenorth> and player 2 gets the 'small big coaster' 23:38:59 <Pikka> yuck :) 23:39:00 <Supercheese> no buy menu callbacks? 23:39:09 <Supercheese> or are we presuming they'll be added sometime? 23:39:18 <andythenorth> ach, it's not hard to do 23:39:21 <andythenorth> someone will do it 23:39:28 <Supercheese> famous last words :P 23:39:36 <andythenorth> unless they decide they hate all this and try to stop us :P 23:39:43 <andythenorth> so far that's looking possible :) 23:39:48 <Supercheese> all too possible 23:40:03 <Pikka> http://pikkarail.com/junk/440.png 23:40:05 <Supercheese> "ach, those newgrf people, there they go again" 23:40:12 <Pikka> there you go, that's how the new diagonals look 23:40:16 <Supercheese> "I should never have added multiple-vehicle-set support" 23:40:35 <Supercheese> "63 loaded grfs is more than anyone could ever need/want" 23:40:46 <andythenorth> herp yes, that's betterer 23:41:01 <Pikka> and a hell of a lot easier/more fun to draw 23:41:14 <Supercheese> Superior in every way then, no? :) 23:41:18 <andythenorth> daiagonals smell 23:41:21 <Pikka> with TTD-scale, basically you're trying to squash 8px of vertical information from the horizontal view 23:41:21 <andythenorth> hmm 23:41:27 <Pikka> into 7px in the diagonal 23:41:37 * Supercheese renders or borrows all his sprites 23:41:41 <Supercheese> I wouldn't know 23:41:49 <Pikka> there's no way anyone in their right mind would have drawn them like that, it's just another reason why I think the original sprites must be rendered :) 23:42:09 <andythenorth> I think I forgot to do that http://hg.openttdcoop.org/heqs/raw-file/695524e53d8c/sprites/graphics/95t_mining_truck.png 23:42:19 <andythenorth> what would SF have rendered them in? 23:42:34 <andythenorth> I assumed he just sat and did a lot of deluxe paint on an amiga :P 23:42:38 <andythenorth> or corel draw :P 23:43:01 <Supercheese> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Advanced_Visualizer 23:43:03 <Pikka> eh, rendering programs existed back then 23:43:04 <Supercheese> perhaps 23:43:17 <andythenorth> if you had time to wait :) 23:43:25 <andythenorth> probably not long for sprites 23:43:31 <andythenorth> I like the mining truck 23:43:35 <Pikka> after all, RCT is obviously rendered, and that was only a few years later 23:43:46 <andythenorth> it's one of the first sprites I drew, and it's also still one of my favourites :P 23:43:50 <Pikka> not long for sprites, and given the size they wouldn't have had to be complex models to begin with 23:44:28 <Supercheese> Poke poke http://dev.openttdcoop.org/issues/4901 23:44:43 <andythenorth> fair point 23:45:07 <andythenorth> hmm 23:45:20 <andythenorth> one player could get packet ships (refittable any cargo) 23:45:32 <andythenorth> another gets mostly freight 23:45:36 <andythenorth> another gets mostly pax 23:45:50 <Pikka> but that's just strange 23:45:52 <andythenorth> if we're going to do this, let's screw players over a bit, no? 23:46:04 <andythenorth> so you have to adapt strategy to what you get 23:46:06 <Pikka> :P 23:46:11 <Pikka> we'll see 23:46:15 <Pikka> code it and we'll try it 23:46:20 <andythenorth> I've considered random vehicles before 23:46:28 <andythenorth> or at least random stats 23:46:53 <andythenorth> I'd like to stop saying, hey, it's 1970, the big log truck will be along soon 23:46:54 <andythenorth> in MP 23:47:03 <andythenorth> but then that's strategy, right? 23:47:11 <Pikka> yeah 23:47:31 <Pikka> I mean, random stats could be fun for the novelty 23:47:43 <Pikka> but as an actual set design, I think it has more drawbacks than advantages 23:47:49 <Supercheese> yeah, as long as the random magnitude isn't excessive 23:48:13 <Supercheese> ±10%? 20%? 25%? 23:48:18 <andythenorth> GS that unlocks vehicles for completing achievements :P 23:48:28 <Supercheese> cheevos for OTTD, 23:48:30 <Pikka> that could be interesting :P 23:48:31 <Supercheese> ignore comma 23:48:40 <Supercheese> GamerScores 23:48:41 <Pikka> it would mean cooperation between the GS and the grf, though 23:48:45 <andythenorth> yeah, that 23:48:50 <andythenorth> never happening 23:48:56 <Supercheese> GamerScore GameScript GSGS 23:49:20 <andythenorth> so I have to put a line through 60% of FISH 2 23:49:23 <andythenorth> some people will hate me 23:49:29 <andythenorth> mostly DanMacK and Coxx :( 23:49:34 <Supercheese> "have to" 23:49:48 <andythenorth> I need to lose these silly tankers too 23:49:57 <andythenorth> so either no tanker sprites, or no autorefit 23:50:12 <Pikka> eh 23:50:22 <Supercheese> You know my stance on autorefit 23:50:23 <Pikka> you know you can limit autorefit? 23:50:32 <andythenorth> ah 23:50:36 <Pikka> based on both the cargo from and the cargo to, for example? 23:50:39 <andythenorth> yes 23:50:47 <andythenorth> but you can create provably broken orders with it 23:50:52 <andythenorth> and there's no error message 23:50:52 <Pikka> true 23:50:54 <Supercheese> rather broken orders 23:50:58 <andythenorth> I have a savegame somewhere :( 23:51:11 <Pikka> maybe have seperate tankers then 23:51:14 <Pikka> but prune them down a bit ;) 23:51:17 <Supercheese> Filter-buy-list-by-cargo-type works well though 23:51:30 <Supercheese> Too many ships --> pick your cargo, boom fewer ships 23:51:35 <Pikka> shall I put buy menu callback on the frysplay? 23:51:36 <andythenorth> Pikka: how much of your goal is gameplay, and how much smaller buy menu? 23:51:57 <Supercheese> doesn't work with locomotives, obviously 23:51:59 <Pikka> well, smaller buy menu is gameplay ;) 23:52:01 <andythenorth> and how much not having to draw more stuff, or answer requests? :P 23:52:07 <Pikka> quite a bit 23:52:46 <Pikka> more limits hopefully means more productivity and releases :) 23:57:13 <andythenorth> Pikka https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3755/deletey.png 23:57:17 <andythenorth> could do that eh? 23:57:50 <Supercheese> Parameter 23:57:50 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-5d85634a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:57:54 <Pikka> hur hur bakewell 300 23:57:56 <Supercheese> Like Pikka did 23:57:56 <andythenorth> 13 from 30 23:58:08 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-5d85634a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 23:58:14 <Pikka> obviously you need some kind of ferry before the hydrofoil, though? :) 23:58:15 <Supercheese> Ship Selection: Standard/Extended/Whatever 23:58:25 <andythenorth> yeah 23:58:48 <andythenorth> that rosario ferry is fine 23:58:56 <andythenorth> just introduce it earlier and kill it earlier 23:58:58 <Pikka> dunno, it's hard to tell 23:59:16 <andythenorth> the Rockall freighter can go too 23:59:17 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5794155E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:59:21 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5794155E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:59:26 <Pikka> it might be worth making a list from scratch (again), rather than working from what you've got already :) 23:59:42 <andythenorth> that's not hard 23:59:50 <andythenorth> but... 23:59:54 <andythenorth> not today ;) 23:59:55 <andythenorth> bed time 23:59:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A235.versanet.de] has joined #openttd