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00:00:10 <Pikka> goodnight 00:00:16 <andythenorth> ciao 00:00:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 00:00:18 <Pikka> don't let the bedships bite 00:01:03 <Supercheese> They're not bedbugs, they're bedfeatures 00:03:33 <Eddi|zuHause> somehow a 4-4-0 engine always screams wildwest-style toy engine to me... 00:03:47 <Wolf01> bed... I... must... resist! 00:05:30 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6A235.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:06:25 <Supercheese> 4-4-0 American :) 00:06:26 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6A235.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 00:06:40 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, early engines were 1B (2-4-0) or 1A1 (2-2-2), but the development got rather towards 1'C (2-6-0) rather than 2'B (4-4-0) 00:07:42 *** supermop [~daniel_er@rrcs-208-105-82-227.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:03 <Eddi|zuHause> there were a few experimental 2'B1' (4-4-2) engines, but it rather quickly resulted in 2'C1' (4-6-2) 00:09:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine the americans rather had problems with axle load early on, hence using 2 axle bogies instead of single leading axles 00:10:13 <Supercheese> Can you ignore entire threads? Have them never trigger "new posts"? 00:10:24 <Eddi|zuHause> no, sadly not 00:10:37 <Supercheese> Darn, I'd love to /ignore the Time Length nonsense thread 00:11:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A235.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:18:26 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A235.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 00:20:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr2 [~Flex@i59F6A235.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 00:25:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6A235.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:27:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A235.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:27:46 <Wolf01> gah, I can't resist... bed calls 00:27:52 <Wolf01> 'night all 00:27:56 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:30:32 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0.1/20130116073211]] 00:30:40 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:33:52 *** ST2 is now known as xT2 00:35:20 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:35:50 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 00:38:16 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5794155E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:41:34 <Supercheese> "b) hiding "AI Only" vehicles from a human player (for example, street traffic cars)." 00:41:36 <Supercheese> +1 00:43:16 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:43:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19295.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:43:29 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5481D489.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:44:06 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:46:05 <Eddi|zuHause> whoever has to point out they know what they're doing probably doesn't know what they're doing :p 00:53:15 *** xT2 is now known as ST2 00:56:18 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5481D489.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:57:25 *** LSky` [~x@5ED5A444.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 00:59:22 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p57941CD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:09:23 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:12:06 <Supercheese> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=64315 01:12:08 <Supercheese> what 01:15:00 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-155-092.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:27:18 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p57941CD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:28:01 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CPXvpdsGkc 01:32:25 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFE412.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:59:23 *** fjb_mobile is now known as Guest1161 01:59:23 *** Guest1161 [~frank@p5DDFE412.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:24 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFE412.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:30:54 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 02:48:19 *** Progman_ 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joined #openttd 08:05:57 <Supercheese> Blaaaaarg, transfer orders screw everything up 08:06:13 <Supercheese> Transfer and take cargo, whoops, they take back the cargo they just unloaded 08:06:21 <Supercheese> can't leave some coaches empty 08:08:46 <Supercheese> unless I use some ridiculous combination of autorefit orders 08:09:02 <Supercheese> sigh 08:12:07 <Supercheese> Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarg some more, can't choose 2 fixed cargoes to autorefit consists to 08:12:21 <Supercheese> Autorefit to Coal and Engineering Supplies 08:12:25 <Supercheese> Nope, can't do that 08:17:43 <Supercheese> HAH, I did it anyway 08:19:54 <Supercheese> "Pick up livestock and grain from this farm, transfer them both at another station, autorefit at that station to farm supplies BUT don't take any livestock or grain back." 08:20:09 <Supercheese> takes 5 orders 08:20:30 <Supercheese> Go to transfer (transfer and leave empty). 08:20:56 <Supercheese> Go to transfer (autorefit to Coal) [there is no coal at this station, this prevents the grain wagons from loading grain again] 08:21:40 <Supercheese> Go to transfer (Transfer and take cargo with autorefit to farm supplies) [this unloads the livestock that were picked back up from the previous order and ensures the train now leaves with only farm supplies] 08:21:50 <Supercheese> Go to farm (autorefit to grain) 08:21:56 <Supercheese> Go to farm (autorefit to livestock) 08:22:38 <Supercheese> I should just use separate trains for livestock and grain, all this wizardry wouldn't be required :S 08:25:03 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 08:25:08 <Supercheese> also this method only works if the grain wagons are refittable to something else 08:25:15 <Supercheese> and the livestock wagons too 08:29:12 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-117-196.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 08:29:49 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 08:34:45 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:34:55 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 08:42:24 <Supercheese> Whoops, can't autorefit from coal to grain 08:42:32 <Supercheese> and no error message to say that 08:43:12 <Flygon> Supercheese: You are a very brave man 08:43:42 <Supercheese> It should work, and damnit if I'm going to surrender 08:44:13 <Supercheese> well, actually I am going to surrender and build separate livestock and grain trains 08:44:17 <Supercheese> >__> 08:44:34 <Flygon> Y'know what'd be nice 08:44:42 <Supercheese> a great many things? 08:44:48 <Flygon> Orders that're programmable to handle only loading and unloading SOME wagons 08:45:32 <Flygon> This'd be great for having BR125 sets in UKRS2 not load mail >____> 08:45:43 *** LSky` [~x@5ED5A444.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:46:05 <Supercheese> Can't refit to non-mail, eh? 08:46:18 <Flygon> Nope 08:48:29 <Supercheese> Yeah, transfer orders bollocks everything up 08:48:43 * Supercheese will never transfer stuff again 08:48:53 <peter1138> yacd! 08:48:53 <Supercheese> (not really, but meh :P ) 08:49:02 <Supercheese> CargoDist is horribly worse 08:49:18 <Supercheese> I've never played with CargoDest though 08:49:26 <Supercheese> they should be different 08:49:29 <LSky`> random question, i have a patch file combining daylength/infrasharing/cargodist thats compiled against r26442/r24663. in the advanced settings though, the fee options for infrasharing show as (undefined string) 08:49:30 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:49:33 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:49:53 <LSky`> i think theres something off with the diff file still 08:49:57 <LSky`> but im not sure what 08:50:04 <Supercheese> Strings, obv 08:50:15 <LSky`> so it would appear 08:50:57 <LSky`> just not sure where to look or what to do about it 08:51:06 <Supercheese> Which string is missing? 08:51:13 <Supercheese> The bottom-description or the main one? 08:51:32 <LSky`> the values you can set in the advanced settings, for the actual costs 08:51:46 <peter1138> eh, doesn't new initialise memory? 08:51:49 <LSky`> "daily track toll for trains: (unfdefined string) per 1000 tonnes 08:51:55 <Supercheese> Hmm 08:52:05 <LSky`> and the other 3 as well 08:52:18 <Supercheese> A recent commit changes stuff with string params 08:52:21 <Supercheese> changed* 08:53:17 <LSky`> the client does actually run by the way, though silly enouhg, i cant actually find the in game menu for IS -_- 08:53:45 <Supercheese> Hmm, 246XX was a while ago 08:53:53 <Supercheese> lots of commits since then 08:54:12 <LSky`> true, but the latest IS was even longer ago, i believe 08:54:52 <LSky`> at least, the last 'official' patch was in 2010 08:55:55 <Supercheese> I'm a singleplayer-only guy, I don't have too much use for IS :P 08:56:14 <LSky`> heh 08:56:26 <LSky`> people have been asking for IS on my server for a while now 08:56:37 <Supercheese> It does sound very nice if you're doing multiplayer 08:56:40 <LSky`> but its not particularly easy to get going 08:56:41 <Supercheese> well, a bunch of patches sound nice :D 08:56:52 <LSky`> yeah 08:56:53 <Supercheese> of course they have bugs, etc. 08:57:47 <LSky`> especially since theyve not been recently updated 08:58:20 <Supercheese> Well, I should sleep 08:58:30 <Supercheese> I need to be awake in 7.5 hours 08:58:36 <LSky`> nn 08:58:49 <Supercheese> scratch that, 7 hours 08:59:22 *** fjb_mobile is now known as Guest1185 08:59:22 *** Guest1185 [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:59:23 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:59:42 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0.2/20130201065344]] 08:59:52 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 09:03:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:04:34 <andythenorth> Pikka: new models have big stats changes or incremental improvements? 09:08:50 <Pikka> of ship? 09:11:08 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 09:13:55 <andythenorth> Pikka: of any vehicle type 09:14:16 <Pikka> mmh 09:14:19 <Pikka> starting vehicle 09:14:27 <Pikka> final vehicle 09:14:52 <Pikka> stat change size = (difference between start and finish) / (number of generations)? :) 09:14:58 <andythenorth> too linear :) 09:15:03 <andythenorth> I think the answer is 'both' 09:15:08 <Pikka> both, then! 09:15:12 <andythenorth> that 09:15:28 <andythenorth> also a 'trash' icon on each vehicle row of the relevant 'all my vehicles' window 09:15:42 <andythenorth> because 10 small ferries can be replaced by 5 large ferries 09:15:48 <andythenorth> or 5 much faster ferries 09:16:06 <andythenorth> and goto depot, delete, is tedious 09:16:09 <andythenorth> especially for trucks 09:16:35 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 09:16:38 <andythenorth> it's garbage collection basically 09:16:45 <andythenorth> mark for deletion, send to depot 09:16:49 <andythenorth> easy patch eh? 09:20:27 <Pikka> mb, what would we do without him? 09:25:45 <andythenorth> precisely 09:26:16 <andythenorth> we've had this discussion before many times apparently 09:26:19 <andythenorth> I wasn't there :P 09:26:30 <andythenorth> and it's moot anyway, for reasons that should be obv. 09:26:44 <andythenorth> but I'm interested what he says anyways 09:27:08 <Pikka> yes, if he was looking for universal agreement on the "right way" to do TTD, he's looking in the wrong place 09:27:20 <Pikka> I was just telling people what I was up to and inviting them to comment :) 09:28:16 <Pikka> but no, I was sighing at mb for the other thread, really ;) 09:29:35 <andythenorth> oh he's missed the point there a bit 09:29:36 <andythenorth> nvm 09:31:08 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-096-040.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 09:39:58 <Alberth> moin all 09:40:59 <Pikka> moin Alberth 09:42:03 <andythenorth> log tugs probably belong in HEQS anyway :P 09:42:18 <Pikka> tog lugs 09:42:25 <andythenorth> tug log 09:42:32 <Pikka> stop that at once 09:43:03 <andythenorth> small ferry, big ferry 09:43:18 <andythenorth> meh, steam -> diesel is such a boring transition for ships 09:43:27 <andythenorth> compared to ship -> hydrofoil 09:43:45 <Pikka> well, there's no need to make a big deal of it 09:44:13 <Pikka> you just have one ship that looks like a steam ship, then the next one looks like a diesel ship. no need really to even tell the player what the propulsion system supposedly is :) 09:44:21 <andythenorth> same stats 09:44:22 <andythenorth> boring 09:44:29 <andythenorth> UKRS 2 manages steam -> diesel well 09:46:18 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:46:28 <Pikka> ships have fewer properties to differentiate 09:46:50 <andythenorth> yup 09:47:08 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-132-199.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 09:47:31 <Pikka> although that said, there's not any "difference" between steam and diesel railway locomotives in TTD per se 09:47:42 <Pikka> they still have all the same features and all the same properties :) 09:48:05 <andythenorth> dieseeisals are cheaper to run 09:48:08 <andythenorth> so you can have more :P 09:48:18 <andythenorth> and they have higher TE, so you can also have fewer :P 09:48:34 <Pikka> yeah, but only because they have those values, if you see what I mean :P 09:49:31 <Pikka> one loco has high costs or low TE or whatever, the other has different, but there's no innate connection between being steam or diesel. just like there isn't with ships. 09:50:05 <andythenorth> basically, for an 1870 start, I need to drop in 'better' ships around 1900 and 1930 09:50:10 <andythenorth> some happen to be diesel 09:50:18 <andythenorth> but that's non-critical 09:50:23 <andythenorth> so how are they 'better' 09:50:24 <Pikka> yup 09:50:24 <andythenorth> ? 09:50:28 <andythenorth> MOAR 09:50:40 <Pikka> why do they need to be 'better'? 09:50:48 <andythenorth> otherwise why bother? 09:50:54 <andythenorth> except the old model is withdrawn 09:51:04 <Pikka> well, indeed 09:51:15 <Pikka> if the new model is just the same as the old one, don't bother with it 09:51:19 <andythenorth> how does a new vehicle advance the gameplay? 09:51:42 <Pikka> make it bigger or faster or cheaper 09:52:10 <Pikka> if your new (diesel) ship isn't bigger or faster or cheaper than your old (steam) ship, either leave it out or change its stats so that it is. 09:52:22 <andythenorth> not wanting to reach for straws, but passenger comfort? 09:52:30 <andythenorth> [cargo aging] 09:53:19 <Pikka> I dunno, I haven't tried to make cargo aging an interesting mechanic 09:53:30 <Pikka> if you think you can do it, have a go :P 09:55:05 <Pikka> night chaps 09:55:08 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-10-125.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:55:52 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B64C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:59:24 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:15:09 <andythenorth> oh he's gone 10:15:46 <Alberth> :( 10:18:51 <andythenorth> nvm 10:18:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:27:35 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:31:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 10:32:47 <andythenorth> ok so I need an acronym for a new ship set 10:32:52 <andythenorth> SQUID 10:32:58 <andythenorth> needs reversing 10:33:12 <andythenorth> SQUIDS? 10:33:27 <andythenorth> Some Quite Useful Interestingly Designed Ships 10:35:02 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:35:37 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:36:13 <andythenorth> CRAB 10:36:28 <andythenorth> COD 10:36:50 <Alberth> squids sounds nice 10:40:12 <andythenorth> 150 years 10:40:15 <andythenorth> 10 pax ships 10:40:17 <andythenorth> 10 freight ships 10:40:19 <andythenorth> 10 mixed ships 10:40:23 <andythenorth> not as strict as pikka 10:40:27 <andythenorth> but ships != trains :P 10:42:47 <Alberth> I don't know what pikka does :) 10:52:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say make fewer mixed ships 10:53:35 <V453000> andythenorth: SHI*S 10:53:38 <Eddi|zuHause> 1 small car ferry (40 passengers or 10t cargo) 10:53:45 <V453000> is my name for ships :P 10:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause> 3 large car ferries (1950, 1970, 1990) 10:54:26 <Eddi|zuHause> before that only "dedicated" cargo ships 10:55:11 <Eddi|zuHause> also: cargo holds :p 10:55:41 <Eddi|zuHause> (freight ships have large capacity but few "holds", ferries have smaller capacity but many many holds) 10:56:06 <MNIM> SQUID: Ships Quite Useful and Interestingly Designed? 10:56:33 <MNIM> Eddi: none from a later day? 10:57:23 <MNIM> I often play from 1900 to 2100 (or even longer) 10:57:34 <MNIM> and quite likely I am not the only one. 10:57:42 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: so what? you use the same ships over 100 years 10:57:56 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 10:58:10 <MNIM> yeah, but that gets boring without new developments. 10:58:31 <Eddi|zuHause> can't have everything ;) 10:59:18 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:59:22 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:00:23 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: important developments may be [sail->]steam->diesel and crates->containers 11:00:52 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: and you need something that makes the hydrofoils less overpowered 11:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause> there is currently no reason at all to prefer a larger slower ship over a smaller faster one 11:02:05 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 11:03:40 <MNIM> I can imagine large solar or wind powered ships in the 2050s 11:12:56 <Eddi|zuHause> wind powered ships, we had those in the 1800s already... 11:18:14 <oskari89> Why the Beta 2 haven't been posted to OpenTTD frontpage O_o 11:18:42 <oskari89> It's there on download testing but still.. 11:18:50 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently nobody has time 11:21:18 <Alberth> oskari89: write a nice announcement 11:21:33 <Alberth> (although I have no posting powers) 11:28:55 <V453000> beta2 is out? :) 11:31:02 <oskari89> Seems that there's bug in that version 11:31:26 <MNIM> Eddi|zuHause: and we were idiots to dump them 11:32:05 <oskari89> I have a 64x64 game 11:32:21 <oskari89> With dense ai-generated roads 11:33:11 <oskari89> Placed two stations at oil refinery and metal works 11:34:19 <oskari89> But when i am giving orders to vehicle that serves those, there's a error... 11:34:47 <oskari89> "Can't insert new order, vehicle can't go to that station" 11:35:07 <oskari89> But there's nothing which would block that vehicle? 11:35:11 <Alberth> bus station instead of truck station? 11:35:22 <Alberth> default station for articulated trucks? 11:35:24 <oskari89> Nope, it's truc station 11:35:26 <oskari89> Yes 11:35:45 <oskari89> Articulated trucs can't use default stations? 11:35:50 <Alberth> that won't work indeed 11:35:56 <Alberth> they cannot make the turns 11:35:58 <oskari89> Okay, that was new to me :P 11:36:33 <oskari89> "Can't make road vehicle turn around" 11:43:51 *** LSky` [~x@5ED5A444.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 11:44:07 <andythenorth> HAKE 11:44:13 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:13 <andythenorth> Haul Anchor, Keep East 11:44:22 <andythenorth> COD 11:44:27 <andythenorth> Cruising Over Deeps 11:45:04 <andythenorth> SALT 11:45:10 <andythenorth> Ships A List Tidied 11:45:53 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 11:48:33 <Alberth> JABS just a bunch of ships 11:49:25 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:53:45 <Eddi|zuHause> what was this word again that sounds like "FISH", but gets spelled completely different? 11:54:55 <andythenorth> PHISH 11:55:06 <Eddi|zuHause> no 11:55:59 <Eddi|zuHause> GHOTI, that i meant 11:56:29 <andythenorth> ? 11:56:36 <Eddi|zuHause> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghoti 11:56:53 <andythenorth> uh huh 11:56:57 <andythenorth> interesting 11:59:20 *** fjb_mobile is now known as Guest1199 11:59:21 *** Guest1199 [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:59:21 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:59:35 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:02:09 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:08:58 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0c30ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 12:13:41 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:13:48 <Wolf01> hi o/ 12:15:03 <Alberth> hi Wolf01 13:06:50 <Eddi|zuHause> it might have been buried in the night, but this is too evil, i have to say it again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CPXvpdsGkc :p 13:11:00 <peter1138> what? 13:11:27 <peter1138> i appear to have hit german youtube 13:13:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you should get the gist of it without understanding that much german 13:15:20 <oskari89> Is there currently random founding of towns in OpenTTD? 13:15:30 <oskari89> So town could be randomly founded somewhere? 13:15:37 <Eddi|zuHause> basically, he's working up the crowd at a carneval show, making it reply to common shoutouts 13:16:10 <Eddi|zuHause> "zicke zacke zicke zacke" - "heu heu heu" and "hip hip" - "hurra" 13:16:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and then he says "Sieg!" 13:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and when the obvious reply comes, he tries to sound embarrassed 13:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause> "this can't be true that there are so many 'old comrads' here" 13:18:10 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:19:43 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-5d821057.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 13:49:20 *** fjb_mobile is now known as Guest1202 13:49:20 *** Guest1202 [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:49:21 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:51:47 <andythenorth> PIRATES 13:52:38 <Eddi|zuHause> no, they won't make it this election 13:52:49 <andythenorth> Provides Individually Reasonable Assets To Enable Shipping 13:53:49 <Alberth> obviously that name is reserved for pirate trading ;) 13:55:47 <andythenorth> Pirates Isn't Recursive At The End So 13:56:16 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:36 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 13:56:36 <Alberth> :) 14:10:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A235.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:11:30 <MNIM> Eddi|zuHause: funny. I was zapping recently and encountered a show called 'sieg heil und alaaf' on one of the german channels. 14:11:48 <MNIM> I was pretty much like 'wait, what?' 14:12:13 <MNIM> have germans been getting more relaxed about those themes these years? 14:12:31 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: i somehow doubt that 14:12:41 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM: and this clip above is from 1973 14:15:26 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:16:10 <MNIM> I noticed, but I always thought you guys were a bit icky whenever the n-word gets mentioned 14:16:47 *** flaa [~flaa@89.100.79.103] has joined #openttd 14:17:30 <Rubidium> not only that 14:17:57 <andythenorth> herp 14:18:07 <andythenorth> reverse acronym SEADOGS? 14:18:51 <Alberth> YASS yet another ship set 14:19:05 <Rubidium> andy's rare rigs 14:19:27 <MNIM> arr! 14:19:58 <andythenorth> Land Ho! 14:20:45 <MNIM> SEAS: Ships? Eek, Another Set! 14:21:01 <andythenorth> need something that goes with CHIPS 14:21:08 <andythenorth> maybe 14:21:10 <andythenorth> dunno why 14:21:17 <andythenorth> CHICKEN! 14:21:21 <andythenorth> SCAMPI 14:21:41 <MNIM> mustard? 14:21:55 <andythenorth> SAUCE 14:22:04 <andythenorth> FISHCAKE 14:22:14 <andythenorth> SMALLFISH 14:23:20 <andythenorth> obviously the name is far more important than what goes in the set :P 14:23:47 <MNIM> More Useless Ships To Anchor 'Round Docks 14:24:07 <MNIM> andy: naturally 14:24:20 <Eddi|zuHause> SSWPA... Ship Set Without Pronouncable Acronym 14:24:43 * MNIM baps Eddi on the head 14:24:45 <MNIM> hush 14:25:04 <MNIM> Acronyms be srz bznz 14:25:11 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:25:27 <andythenorth> CATS 14:25:43 <andythenorth> Cast Away To Sea 14:25:54 <MNIM> Craptastic Andythenorth Transport Ships? 14:25:59 * MNIM ducks 14:26:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i doubt that cats really go well with chips 14:26:24 <andythenorth> I like SQUID 14:26:44 <andythenorth> I guess that might work 14:26:49 <andythenorth> or does it suck? 14:26:56 <MNIM> squid? what was that again 14:27:07 <andythenorth> Ships Quite Unique Individual Designs 14:27:20 <andythenorth> because there will be limited incremental improvements 14:27:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Now Everybody Wants Ships 14:27:29 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: pretty good :) 14:27:53 <andythenorth> SHARK 14:27:54 <andythenorth> ? 14:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> call it NEWShips, just to annoy MB :) 14:28:07 <andythenorth> annoying MB is an over-rated sport :) 14:28:12 <MNIM> oh right, I proposed SQUID: Ships Quite Useful and Interestingly Designed myself 14:29:01 <andythenorth> Ships Have Anchors Ropes Knots 14:29:38 <andythenorth> SHARK will do 14:29:43 <andythenorth> de-acronym later 14:29:56 <andythenorth> now to actually figure out what it is :P 14:30:12 <andythenorth> 1. move the log tug to HEQS 14:30:22 <andythenorth> 2. only put necessary ships in SHARK 14:30:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i like the log tug 14:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> HEQS should stick to road vehicles 14:31:22 <andythenorth> :P 14:36:57 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:58 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:40:28 <Eddi|zuHause> why are you always so eager to remove the one thing that is interesting/not like everything else out there? 14:41:08 <andythenorth> :) 14:43:35 <andythenorth> everything must be uniform! 14:43:53 <andythenorth> also, in a set of 25 ships, how do I justify one that only carries wood? 14:44:03 <andythenorth> or is that exactly precisely upside-down thinking? 14:44:21 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you justify the other 24 ships? 14:44:37 <Eddi|zuHause> a log tug would be the cheapest way to move logs 14:45:39 <andythenorth> this is an interesting way of thinking about it 14:45:46 <andythenorth> start with the log tug 14:45:50 <andythenorth> what else deserves to be in 14:46:08 <andythenorth> my concern with any set is avoiding 'bland' 14:46:15 <andythenorth> 'big' is one way to avoid 'bland' 14:46:34 <andythenorth> but that's too easy 14:48:08 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: do you think cargo aging is worth bothering with? 14:48:29 <Eddi|zuHause> for ships? yes, slower cargo aging makes it on-par with other transport types 14:48:41 <andythenorth> I am thinking between ships as well 14:48:48 <andythenorth> so old, open-deck passenger ships 14:48:57 <andythenorth> age much faster than ferries with cabins and bars and slot machines 14:49:00 <Eddi|zuHause> low cargo aging for non-perishable goods (coal, ore, etc...) 14:49:57 <andythenorth> ship technology progresses quite slowly I think 14:50:16 <andythenorth> over 150 years, probably not many models needed for each cargo / route niche 14:51:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, 1700: sail ships, 1800: steam ships, 1900: small diesel ships, 1950: large container ships 14:51:16 <Flygon> Only 1700? 14:51:22 <Flygon> What about 1500? 14:51:34 <andythenorth> yeah, not interested 14:51:36 <Flygon> Also, Tiremes 14:51:46 <andythenorth> my games start 1870, never earlier 14:51:59 <andythenorth> making ships for Other People is a nice idea, but my time is short ;) 14:52:20 <Eddi|zuHause> make 3 or 4 ships per each of these eras 14:52:36 <andythenorth> something like this yes 14:52:44 <andythenorth> with rather large capacity difference 14:53:00 <andythenorth> so PAX / mail: 50 pax / 250 pax / 1000 pax 14:53:09 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 14:53:24 <Eddi|zuHause> something like that, yes 14:54:12 <andythenorth> FISH 2 has big gaps in pax ships (not drawn), but works fine in gameplay 14:54:23 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Don't test your sets with "vehicles never expire" switched on, I don't want to end up with The One Ship Set :p 14:54:33 <andythenorth> michi_cc: point :) 14:55:27 *** Dakki [~point@197.Red-88-7-29.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 14:55:52 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 14:55:56 <andythenorth> this Island Trader thing should go 14:56:02 <andythenorth> it's like Universal Ultimate Ship 14:56:13 <andythenorth> fast, right size for many routes, refits anything 14:56:34 <Dakki> hello 14:56:46 <Alberth> hi 14:57:14 *** Dakki [~point@197.Red-88-7-29.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 14:57:14 *** Lunar [~point@197.Red-88-7-29.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 14:57:39 <andythenorth> also michi_cc can I moan about autorefit? :) 14:57:50 <andythenorth> or is the answer 'ignore it' o_O 14:57:50 *** Lunar is now known as Guest1205 14:58:00 *** Guest1205 is now known as Dakki 14:58:07 <Alberth> don't support it :) 14:58:10 <michi_cc> To your moaning? Yes ;) 14:58:47 <Dakki> what happened to the 'stolen trees' newgrf? 14:59:05 <Eddi|zuHause> it's still around, somewhere 14:59:09 <Alberth> that was by SAC wasn't it? 14:59:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but search for the updated "treesw.grf" with snowy versions as well 15:00:35 <andythenorth> ho ho 15:00:40 <andythenorth> small, medium, very large 15:00:41 <andythenorth> no large 15:00:57 <andythenorth> if you want large ships, use a few medium ones 15:01:03 <michi_cc> Just pick three or four cargo groups (all liquid cargoes, all bulk cargoes, all piece goods etc) and allow unlimited autorefit in each group and none at all between groups. Prevents stuck cargo types, and ignore anybody who wants to autorefit between groups. 15:01:21 <andythenorth> michi_cc: that's what I've done for FISH 2 15:01:29 <andythenorth> only differently 15:01:36 <andythenorth> tankers refit any liquid 15:01:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, and the "very large" category grows with each era, the "small" and "medium" ships stay the same size 15:01:43 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: precisely that 15:02:05 <andythenorth> there is always a niche for small 15:02:13 <andythenorth> but otherwise the game tends to 'bigger' 15:02:29 <andythenorth> industry production++ and town population++ 15:03:03 <Eddi|zuHause> "speedboat": 1t, high speed :) 15:03:20 <andythenorth> :P 15:04:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and have them make really annoying sounds so people won't use 1000 of them to serve a route :p 15:05:11 <Eddi|zuHause> (i think the game just drops sounds if there are too many simultaneously) 15:06:03 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7a2a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:06:43 <andythenorth> lo frosch123 15:08:19 <frosch123> moin :) 15:08:26 *** Dakki [~point@197.Red-88-7-29.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:08:34 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: should I kill the freight barges? :P 15:08:36 *** Dakki [~point@197.Red-88-7-29.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 15:08:49 <andythenorth> they're slow 15:08:52 <Eddi|zuHause> which ones are those? 15:09:18 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3755/deletey.png 15:09:27 <andythenorth> rhs 15:09:57 <andythenorth> ach, wrong way of thinking about it 15:10:14 <andythenorth> what ships are fun to have? what ships are different to other ships? 15:10:28 <Eddi|zuHause> barges: fastest ship on canals 15:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> keep the paddle steamers, make them the only choice in the steam era 15:11:10 <andythenorth> yes 15:11:11 <andythenorth> and yes 15:11:16 <andythenorth> I agree 15:11:23 <andythenorth> but I'm trying to start from clean sheet 15:11:26 <andythenorth> I keep forgetting that :P 15:11:28 <Eddi|zuHause> make the hydrofoils future-ish 15:11:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i think they're heavily overpowered 15:12:09 <andythenorth> what gameplay reason is there to provide inland and sea vessels? 15:12:18 <andythenorth> I can vary speed, but then I need to provide a range of capacities 15:12:37 <andythenorth> because industries and towns don't produce differently depending on inland / near sea 15:12:39 <Eddi|zuHause> keep the barges small/medium only 15:13:03 <andythenorth> big ones look bad in canals anyway 15:14:11 <Eddi|zuHause> inland barges are more a thing of opportunity, you need to have a river flowing in the right direction to make decent use of them 15:14:25 <Eddi|zuHause> or you have really high costs for canals 15:14:54 *** Dakki [~point@197.Red-88-7-29.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [] 15:14:58 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise it's usually easier to just serve the industries by train/truck 15:15:32 <andythenorth> ugh, ships with refittable capacity would shake this up :P 15:15:34 *** Dakki [~point@197.Red-88-7-29.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #openttd 15:15:42 <Eddi|zuHause> don't 15:15:55 <andythenorth> I mean properly, specified as 'holds' 15:16:01 <andythenorth> multiple thereof 15:16:12 <Eddi|zuHause> don't 15:16:33 <andythenorth> well I'm unlikely to succeed at patching ottd for it :P 15:16:35 <andythenorth> so moot point 15:18:21 <Eddi|zuHause> even if there were "holds", they would have fixed sizes and just be handled by refit/autorefit to different cargos 15:18:32 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing the newgrf should worry about 15:18:56 <andythenorth> newgrf would specify the number of holds and size? 15:19:19 *** Dakki [~point@197.Red-88-7-29.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 15:19:51 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly in a form similar to the articulated callback 15:33:37 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:51 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 15:35:40 * andythenorth experiments 15:37:42 * Alberth throws in a stick of dynamite for extra fun 15:39:37 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:17 <andythenorth> I just can't do this thing pikka is doing for trains 15:40:44 <Alberth> why would you? you're a different person afaik 15:41:01 <Eddi|zuHause> do you really know? :p 15:41:18 <Eddi|zuHause> have you ever met both in the same room at the same time? 15:41:21 <andythenorth> herp 15:41:30 <Alberth> all the evidence found so far points in that direction :p 15:41:59 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: yes, I have seen them talk to each other in #openttd :) 15:42:31 <andythenorth> could be fake 15:42:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i have seen TB and DorpsGek talk to each other. that doesn't prove anything :p 15:42:35 <andythenorth> anyway trains can be composed into consists 15:42:41 <andythenorth> so capacity varies trivially 15:42:43 <andythenorth> ships can't 15:43:06 <andythenorth> and just saying 'build 10 of size xyz' is unsatisfactory 15:43:37 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: you claim that TB and DorpsGek are the same entity? you're crazy :) 15:49:20 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, but having 10 different refits per cargo type is un-handleable 15:49:22 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:49:31 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: ? 15:49:40 <andythenorth> wrt...? 15:49:52 <Eddi|zuHause> wrt refitable ship sizes 15:49:56 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0c30ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:50:53 <andythenorth> ah 15:50:55 <andythenorth> yes 15:51:00 <andythenorth> I kind of gave up on that argument 15:51:11 <andythenorth> doesn't go anywhere useful ;) 15:51:39 <andythenorth> in the absence of old style FIRS supplies, is there *any* point to teeny ships (<20t / 30 pax) 15:51:41 <andythenorth> ? 15:51:44 * andythenorth thinks not 15:53:54 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 15:54:03 <Eddi|zuHause> small village on a remote-ish island 15:54:13 <Eddi|zuHause> which you'd normaly cover by a bus service 15:54:30 <andythenorth> why not just run a bigger boat, with timetable instead of full load? 15:54:34 <andythenorth> 60 pax or so? 15:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> as i mentioned earlier: "small ferry" - 40pax or 10t cargo 15:55:42 <andythenorth> currently there is one at 30 pax / 12t 15:55:50 <andythenorth> which gets used a bit 15:56:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you certainly don't need both 30pax and 60pax ships 15:56:29 <andythenorth> no 15:56:32 <Eddi|zuHause> 30-300-3000 15:56:41 <andythenorth> something like that 15:57:56 <andythenorth> ship speeds 15:58:00 <andythenorth> realistic, or cheated? 15:58:08 <andythenorth> [they're already cheated somewhat in FISH] 15:59:44 <Eddi|zuHause> not too cheated, balance the decay rate instead 16:00:10 <Eddi|zuHause> so a 40km/h ship earns the same as a 120km/h train 16:15:13 <andythenorth> hmm 16:15:14 <andythenorth> idea 16:15:31 <andythenorth> only one model for a class of ship 16:15:33 <andythenorth> over 150 years 16:15:50 <andythenorth> no progression of type 1 -> type 2 filling same niche 16:16:23 <Alberth> makes "class" somewhat non-useful :) (or "model" of course) 16:18:51 <andythenorth> you just build 'small coaster' or whatever 16:19:00 <andythenorth> you don't worry about picking type 1 or type 2 16:19:50 <andythenorth> no date changes either 16:20:45 <V453000> fish aint enough ? :D 16:21:59 <andythenorth> I'm canning FISH 2 16:22:53 <andythenorth> starting a new ships project 16:23:09 <V453000> why? :d 16:24:24 <michi_cc> andythenorth: Progression is vital if you play with inflation enabled. The TTD inflation mechanics let the costs increase faster than the revenue, which means vehicles must get more efficient as time goes by. 16:25:01 <andythenorth> that's cos inflation is broken ;) 16:27:18 <michi_cc> Too many vehicles to buy is solved in a big part by playing with inflation, expiring vehicles and breakdowns (reliability is randomized by the game, which means there will always be a random subset of vehicles that are not usable for there low reliability). 16:27:39 <V453000> not like too many vehicles to buy is a problem ;) 16:27:41 <michi_cc> s/there/their/ 16:28:09 <V453000> if there are too many equal vehicles to choose from, it is fault of the train set 16:29:12 <andythenorth> I think too many vehicles is boring 16:29:25 <andythenorth> I'm deleting most of them from FISH 16:29:38 <andythenorth> and probably won't bother with progression over time much 16:29:47 <andythenorth> canal boats didn't change much in 150 years 16:30:18 <andythenorth> I don't think I can get a ship set down to 10 vehicles though 16:30:24 <andythenorth> MB succeeded at that 16:34:16 <V453000> well if ship sprites change upon refit, you need like just a few for cargo 16:34:48 <V453000> "large universal cargo ship", medium, and what not 16:36:33 <andythenorth> they don't change on refit 16:36:40 <andythenorth> but otherwise I agree 16:36:44 <V453000> dont /cant? 16:36:49 <andythenorth> looks dumb ;) 16:36:55 <andythenorth> really really dumb 16:36:56 <Eddi|zuHause> "shouldn't" 16:37:00 <andythenorth> I could drop autorefit 16:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> don't 16:37:16 <andythenorth> I'll keep it :P 16:37:35 <andythenorth> means I have to have tankers 16:37:36 <andythenorth> hmm 16:37:38 <andythenorth> could not have tankers 16:37:40 <V453000> uhm that doesnt change sprites? 16:37:47 <andythenorth> hmm 16:37:54 <andythenorth> the cargo ships carry liquids in barrels anyway 16:38:06 <andythenorth> but tankers have always been in the game :P 16:38:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: have huge tankers only in the "container ship" era (1950+) 16:38:52 <andythenorth> yes 16:38:54 <Eddi|zuHause> before that, handle liquids in barrels 16:39:04 <andythenorth> I am +1 to that, except there's a really nice sprite for a 'large' tanker :) 16:39:11 <andythenorth> set design influenced by available sprites :P 16:39:13 <andythenorth> bad 16:39:32 <V453000> good 16:42:07 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:42 <andythenorth> hmm 16:44:48 <andythenorth> maybe I should delete the FIRS economy 16:44:53 <andythenorth> and remove some industries from FIRS 16:45:05 <andythenorth> it would compile faster, amongst other things 16:45:12 <andythenorth> the smaller Basic economies are better 16:45:12 <Eddi|zuHause> you certainly have the focus of... oh a butterly 16:45:27 <andythenorth> it all runs in the same direction :P 16:46:19 <andythenorth> I noticed FISH compile got faster due to being smaller 16:46:26 <andythenorth> faster FIRS compile would be welcome 16:54:54 <andythenorth> down to 5 tankers, 8 cargo ships 16:55:12 <andythenorth> 8 pax ships 16:55:16 <andythenorth> a few randoms 16:55:24 <andythenorth> that's about 50% removed 17:04:01 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:24:50 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:26:55 <andythenorth> hmm 17:27:03 <andythenorth> what happened to the wider buy menu for ships? 17:27:25 <andythenorth> reverted? 17:43:02 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:49:41 <frosch123> not that i know of 17:49:53 <frosch123> maybe you downgraded :p 17:50:12 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:51:25 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 17:51:29 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:53:59 <andythenorth> maybe I broke FISH :P 17:54:10 <andythenorth> nml says the buy menu sprites are 138px wide 17:54:15 <andythenorth> but they're not rendered that wide 17:54:28 <andythenorth> maybe I screwed up offsets 17:54:37 <andythenorth> EAndythenorth 18:03:36 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0c30ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:07:50 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:30 <andythenorth> ho ho 18:13:37 <andythenorth> maybe I should remove *all* the sea ships 18:13:47 <andythenorth> just do inland vessels 18:13:56 <andythenorth> that's got to be better? 18:14:38 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0c30ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:19:08 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p5DDFEA61.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:21:13 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24983 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-09 17:31:07 UTC) 18:21:14 <DorpsGek> -Change: Apply the same name sorting rules to content and NewGRF list as for the server list. 18:28:53 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:34:38 <andythenorth> ok, so I can't do the pikka 10 vehicle thing 18:34:51 <andythenorth> but I can do 40 ships for 150 years, without being stupid about it 18:34:59 <andythenorth> that's quite enough imho 18:39:03 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 18:46:04 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0c0889.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:54:10 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0c0889.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:58:53 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:59:45 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:01:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 19:14:59 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-243-68.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:15:50 <LordAro> \o all 19:16:53 <Alberth> evenink 19:25:58 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:26:01 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 19:30:25 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 19:35:30 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24984 /trunk/src/lang (4 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-09 18:45:20 UTC) 19:35:31 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 19:35:32 <DorpsGek> esperanto - 1 changes by LaPingvino 19:35:33 <DorpsGek> greek - 5 changes by Evropi 19:35:34 <DorpsGek> thai - 38 changes by khao9999 19:35:35 <DorpsGek> ukrainian - 23 changes by Strategy 19:39:34 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:45:15 *** mkv` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:48:25 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:53:32 <Alberth> andythenorth: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=64321 <-- possible FIRS problem 19:53:43 <andythenorth> have loaded the save 19:53:55 <Supercheese> I also posted the updated english.lngs 19:54:08 <Supercheese> you might have seen those already 19:54:13 <Alberth> were they out of date? 19:54:37 <Supercheese> Capitalization was made "proper", and the US english had zillions of needless duplicate strings 19:54:49 <Supercheese> I didn't realize you could only include the strings that were different 19:55:12 <Alberth> oh :) 19:55:49 <Alberth> so more fallback to the base language now :) 19:55:54 <Supercheese> yeh 19:56:04 <Supercheese> Au English has, like, only 2 entries :P 19:56:27 <Supercheese> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/lang/english_au.lng 19:57:39 <Supercheese> Man, Voyager One is really good at pixel-pushing, he just churns out more trains for the Dutch set all the time 19:57:58 <Supercheese> dozens and dozens 19:59:12 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:05:10 <Alberth> andythenorth: I just committed the english changes of Supercheese, the US english changes removes all duplicates, is that wanted in a language file? 20:05:36 <Alberth> ie other languages tend to copy unchanged strings 20:05:38 <Supercheese> AU English as linked doesn't duplicate either 20:05:47 <Supercheese> but I dunno if that was intentional 20:05:52 <Supercheese> or just a lazy translator :P 20:06:11 <Alberth> the point is that other languages do copy those strings 20:06:24 <Supercheese> well, other languages have to change every string 20:06:28 <Supercheese> Englishes often don't 20:07:14 <Eddi|zuHause> what's missing is that other languages could define an explicit base lenguage 20:07:34 <Supercheese> Yeah 20:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause> like "german (switzerland)" could define german as base language, and only change the numbering etc. 20:07:57 <Supercheese> A Spanish-variant could define Spanish base and then not include duplicate strings 20:08:03 <Supercheese> Same of German-variants and so on 20:08:04 <Alberth> there is more missing in the current file format :) 20:08:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. "'" as thousand separator instead of "." 20:08:32 <Supercheese> Thousands not separated by commas break my brain @_@ 20:08:52 <Supercheese> 3.796,51 is ridiculous 20:09:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see the point :p 20:09:31 <andythenorth> Alberth: removing unchanged strings is desirable, but not usually practical :P 20:09:42 <andythenorth> it reduces maintenance, but takes work to maintain :P 20:10:03 <Alberth> Supercheese: your call :) 20:10:42 <Supercheese> Well I am a sucker for consistency, so both AU and US english should either include all duplicate strings, or none of them 20:11:07 <Supercheese> currently I'm leaning towards no duplicates 20:11:36 <Alberth> ok, no duplicates it is :) 20:12:15 <Supercheese> I don't speak Aussie, so I can't maintain the AU English file :P 20:13:02 <andythenorth> hmm 20:13:51 <andythenorth> the brewery accepts fruit, the tiles accept fruit, the station thinks fruit is accepted, but the cargo isn't moved to the industry :P 20:15:46 <Supercheese> Produce block issues? 20:16:02 <Supercheese> Produce won't produce with produce :D 20:16:35 <andythenorth> could be 20:17:50 <andythenorth> seems to be widespread for secondary industry 20:24:30 <andythenorth> herp 20:24:31 <andythenorth> so 20:24:46 <andythenorth> I have a station that's claiming to accept scrap metal 20:24:47 <andythenorth> but doesn't 20:28:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you sure you didn't set any weird transfer orders? 20:28:54 <andythenorth> I was using one station which overlapped source and destination 20:28:59 <andythenorth> with unload and take cargo 20:29:10 <andythenorth> that has issues 20:29:12 <Eddi|zuHause> ah yes, that is an explanation :) 20:29:18 <Eddi|zuHause> don't do that :) 20:29:26 <andythenorth> however I can't replicate the situation hyronymous has in his save 20:29:39 <andythenorth> it's broken in his save, but I can't figure out why :P 20:29:39 <Eddi|zuHause> what save? 20:29:46 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=64321 20:29:56 <andythenorth> the save involves insanely slow trains 20:30:07 <andythenorth> so I tested to see if I could replicate with any version of recent FIRS 20:30:18 <andythenorth> the only way I can do so is with the weird single station setup 20:30:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the industry closest to the station sign will get all cargo 20:31:15 <andythenorth> allegedly that was tested already 20:31:21 <andythenorth> I didn't due to very slow trains :P 20:31:45 <Eddi|zuHause> just destroy the industry in question (magic bulldozer) and see if that solves it 20:32:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't look at the actual savegame at the moment 20:38:52 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:41:36 <andythenorth> yeah, it was the other industry taking the cargo 20:41:49 <andythenorth> never trust someone else's report :P 20:42:31 *** chester_ [~chester@128-72-108-123.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 20:48:45 <Alberth> which other industry? 20:49:33 <andythenorth> food market 20:50:27 <Alberth> hmm, didn't see that one 20:50:43 <Alberth> your industry buildings blend in very well :) 20:51:23 <andythenorth> :P 20:53:18 <frosch123> colour code them, just make them pink and blue 20:53:29 <frosch123> no shading, just unicolor :p 20:55:15 <andythenorth> :) 20:55:34 <andythenorth> frosch123: you didn't happen to implement vehicle views whilst I wasn't looking? 20:55:37 <andythenorth> o_O 20:55:49 <frosch123> i did not even wrote a spec :p 20:56:25 <peter1138> rgb colour maps! 21:10:46 <andythenorth> what is the point of these giant tankers in FISH 2? 21:12:08 <andythenorth> no sensible industry set produces this much oil 21:12:26 <andythenorth> (1,800,000 litres capacity) 21:13:13 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:13:19 <andythenorth> then they look stupid going up the river to the refinery 21:14:09 <frosch123> maybe they are meant for transfers 21:14:28 <andythenorth> dunno 21:14:34 <frosch123> aren't ships usually used when trains cannot handle the amount anymore 21:14:39 <andythenorth> I've never used them in my games 21:14:42 <andythenorth> they're too big 21:14:47 <frosch123> without flatting all mountains and placing 32 tracks in parallel? 21:15:04 <frosch123> but yes, usually i build many ships rather than big ships 21:15:15 <andythenorth> better to deliver small amounts frequently 21:15:35 <frosch123> i also rarely build the long trams 21:15:41 <frosch123> usually medium only 21:15:47 <frosch123> sometimes short 21:16:15 <andythenorth> or I adjust the capacity down significantly 21:16:52 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:17:16 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 21:20:46 *** Markavian [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:24:46 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6DE58.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:27:50 <andythenorth> ho ho 21:27:56 <andythenorth> I'm accidentally making NewShips 21:28:03 <andythenorth> Michael got here a long time ago :) 21:28:45 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-10-125.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 21:28:55 <andythenorth> lo Pikka 21:29:00 <Pikka> lo andy 21:29:00 <andythenorth> curse you 21:29:09 <Pikka> did I? 21:29:15 <andythenorth> I am deleting ships left and right 21:29:17 <andythenorth> and center 21:29:20 <andythenorth> Dan will hate me :( 21:29:23 <Pikka> oops :) 21:29:34 <frosch123> luckily fish 1 is still available :) 21:29:38 <Pikka> and fish 2 21:30:12 <andythenorth> FISH 2 is not getting any more work 21:30:17 <andythenorth> SQUID has killed it 21:31:19 <frosch123> is squid an oversized cargo? 21:31:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A235.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:32:07 <frosch123> do 1 800 000 litres suit a squid? 21:32:16 <andythenorth> probly :P 21:33:05 * Pikka berb 21:33:38 <peter1138> keberb 21:37:16 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-240.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 21:41:53 *** LSky` [~x@5ED5A444.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 21:50:57 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-132-199.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 21:53:23 <Pikka> lo berb 21:53:32 <Pikka> you have pie? 21:56:39 <andythenorth> mmm pie 21:57:08 <Pikka> pie pie pie pie pie pie pie 21:57:19 <Pikka> or at least coffee 22:04:12 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1B64C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:07 *** LSky [~x@5ED5A444.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 22:16:10 <andythenorth> herp 22:20:16 *** LSky` [~x@5ED5A444.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:33:06 <Pikka> not sure which side you're on, Alberth :) 22:33:24 <Alberth> :) 22:33:39 <Pikka> are you saying GS's shouldn't try to manage the economy, or are you saying that industry GRFs shouldn't exist? 22:34:14 <Pikka> "complex" industry GRFs shouldn't exist 22:34:16 <Pikka> ? 22:40:16 <Pikka> any road up 22:40:21 * Pikka back in an hour or two 22:43:38 <Alberth> I am saying that even the game engine cannot manage current industry newgrfs (due to not having enough influence) 22:43:52 <Alberth> as such GS cannot do it either 22:44:13 * Alberth is asleep in an hour of two :) 22:44:39 <frosch123> at least you hope to :) 22:46:05 <Alberth> from past experience, I am confident that will work :) 22:46:14 <Alberth> good night :) 22:46:58 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:47:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i said, right? NewGRFs already have too much influence, you can't cut back on it to try to balance it 23:00:38 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:03:07 <andythenorth> for any given feature (trains / RVs / industry etc), there are things that could be delegated, if we were prepared to do the arguing 23:03:16 <andythenorth> so that newgrf is less influential 23:03:53 <Supercheese> Well, I am most proficient at coding newgrfs, so more power to them, say I 23:03:55 <Supercheese> :P 23:05:38 <frosch123> sometimes i wonder what happens when i lock in a newgrf author with an ai author like krinn into a room 23:06:14 <frosch123> would only one of them survive? or would they team up and kill me instead :p 23:21:55 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 23:22:31 <LordAro> krinn wouldn't 23:22:41 <LordAro> everyone else would team up :) 23:23:03 <LordAro> with the possible exception of the Rondje authors :L 23:29:44 <andythenorth> new ship set has 29 ships, with 1 slot free for 'inspiration' 23:29:54 <andythenorth> it's a bit less logical than FISH :P 23:31:01 <Supercheese> Which were axed/which kept? 23:31:40 <Supercheese> Also: are they permanently gone or hidden behind a new parameter [Normal\Extended]? 23:31:43 <andythenorth> gone 23:31:46 <andythenorth> it's a new set 23:31:48 <andythenorth> SQUID 23:31:52 <andythenorth> FISH is dead 23:32:08 <Supercheese> And no one can take it over because of your 10 layers of abstraction O_o 23:32:09 <frosch123> use the last slot for a squid then 23:32:40 <andythenorth> Supercheese: I think you misunderstand abstraction :) 23:32:43 <Supercheese> Although I could just pinch the graphics 23:33:08 <andythenorth> if you limit your changes to those the framework allows, you can keep the set running just by editing the .cfg file 23:33:11 <andythenorth> which is plain text 23:33:41 <andythenorth> rename it LOSTFISH 23:34:05 <Supercheese> Well, you've a .cfg file building Python building NML building NFO building a .grf, no? 23:34:15 <Supercheese> or well, NML can go straight to grf I guess 23:34:20 <andythenorth> python builds nml from the .cfg file 23:34:21 <Supercheese> kind of 23:34:42 <andythenorth> nml -> grf 23:34:57 <andythenorth> hmm, I've done an evil 23:35:01 <Supercheese> so one more layer over NML then 23:35:13 <Supercheese> NML really is just higher-level NFO though 23:35:29 <Supercheese> with some automatic code generation wizardry 23:35:43 <Supercheese> i.e. Spritelayout 'arguments' 23:39:17 <frosch123> night 23:39:21 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7a2a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:28 *** chester_ [~chester@128-72-108-123.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:57:50 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-148-243-68.range81-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]