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00:04:31 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:09:28 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 00:14:35 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:16:37 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:25:26 <Wolf01> 'night 00:25:29 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:26:04 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-21-245.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:38:51 <Bad_Brett> finally i managed to create a formula that seems to work... 00:39:04 <Supercheese> sprite offsets are blah 00:39:36 <Supercheese> anything that works for you, stick with it 00:40:34 <Bad_Brett> abs(spriteheight-1)*2^5-childspriteposition 00:40:40 <Bad_Brett> who would have guessed? 00:40:48 <Supercheese> @______@ 00:40:57 <Bad_Brett> no i mean 00:41:07 <Bad_Brett> abs(z5_spriteheight-1)*2^5-childspriteposition 00:41:15 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:41:34 <Bad_Brett> i want the past two nights back 00:43:48 <Bad_Brett> but i must admit that it looks quite nice 00:47:02 <Bad_Brett> i refuse to set any offsets manually! :P 00:49:04 *** Celestar_ [~vici@mnch-5d85a71a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 00:49:45 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 00:50:27 * Supercheese sets all his offsets manually 00:54:31 * Eddi|zuHause scripts all offsets 00:56:05 *** Celestar [~vici@mnch-5d868dc7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:00:27 *** tycoondemon [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:00:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6A4D2.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:02:46 * FLHerne randomly picks offsets until they work :-( 01:03:04 <FLHerne> I should really try figuring them out sometime :P 01:12:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the key is having good templates 01:12:32 * Supercheese often doesn't use templates 01:14:45 <Bad_Brett> yep... especially if you're doing complex stuff 01:15:34 *** kormer [~kormer@c-68-55-166-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 01:16:58 <Bad_Brett> for example, have fun splitting up the sprites in animations such as this one: http://www.badbrett.se/goldrush/whale2.gif 01:17:18 <Supercheese> I'd just make that all one big animation 01:17:28 <Supercheese> although it might span multiple tiles, which would be a pain 01:17:44 <Bad_Brett> that might cause glitches though 01:18:15 <Supercheese> if it ended up needing to be a 2x2 object...... blarg, yeah 01:18:28 <Supercheese> I would not look forward to chopping those sprites up @_@ 01:19:00 <Bad_Brett> exactly... that's you write a simple script and let the computer do the work instead of you :) 01:19:04 <Bad_Brett> *why 01:20:03 <FLHerne> Bad_Brett: Are you planning to put that in OTTD!? :o 01:20:18 <Bad_Brett> you bet 01:21:08 <Bad_Brett> i got inspired while watching Whale Wars :D 01:21:50 <FLHerne> But it looks ACTUALLY REALISTIC! And not pixelated or at a strange angle! And it's a WHALE! 01:22:18 * FLHerne is quite startled by realistic-looking OTTD 01:24:02 <Bad_Brett> it looks quite nice in-game 01:25:44 <FLHerne> So do all your disturbingly convincing spritey things :-) 01:26:10 <Bad_Brett> :D 01:26:12 <Supercheese> like that conestoga wagon... :D 01:26:28 <Supercheese> good stuff 01:29:07 <Bad_Brett> thanks... i wonder if it will be fun to play with though... i may have to feed the oxen with steroids so they walk a bit faster :P 01:29:39 <Supercheese> 2x 'realistic' speeds should be fine 01:30:00 <Supercheese> some of the eGRVTS horses get a bit silly though, running around approaching 20 mph :P 01:30:43 <Bad_Brett> :D 01:31:57 <Supercheese> the Wells Fargo coach must have been REALLY behind schedule to approach those speeds ;) 01:32:12 <Bad_Brett> haha 01:32:12 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:33:41 *** tycoondemon [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 01:34:28 <Supercheese> "A Conestoga wagon, pulled by a team of six draft horses, averaged 15 miles a day." 01:34:44 <Supercheese> 0.625 mph? 01:34:51 <Bad_Brett> heh 01:34:55 <Supercheese> Average â instantaneous, of course 01:35:39 <Bad_Brett> my idea is to make the rivers quite important 01:35:56 <Supercheese> Steamboats galore 01:35:59 <Supercheese> :D 01:36:03 <Bad_Brett> exactly! 01:36:05 <Bad_Brett> :D 01:36:16 <Eddi|zuHause> cross the USA map with that :p 01:36:28 <kormer> I played a US map starting at 1700 once and it was a blast running ships until 1830 01:36:54 <Bad_Brett> that's great to hear 01:37:09 <Supercheese> The only .grf with ships in the 1700s is the sailing ship grf, no? 01:37:13 <kormer> Yes 01:37:22 <Supercheese> Seems kinda of silly using full-rigged ships on rivers 01:37:27 <Bad_Brett> guess i'll have to try it then 01:37:29 <Supercheese> kind of* 01:37:38 <kormer> Yes, that part wasn't too realistic. 01:37:58 <Bad_Brett> i'm going to set a huge speed penalty on those 01:37:58 <Supercheese> I'm not even sure what 18th-century riverboats would look like 01:38:26 <kormer> There really weren't any, it would have mostly been mule-pulled barge traffic 01:39:01 <Supercheese> "Fifteen miles on the Eerie Canal"... â 01:39:08 <kormer> And almost all pre-steamboat mississippi river traffic was one way 01:39:29 <Supercheese> or was it years 01:39:39 <Eddi|zuHause> "Noch 20 Minuten bis Buffalo" 01:40:52 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a movie on TV recently of 1920's berlin, and they had river/canal boats that were pushed venice-style with someone with a long pole on the boat 01:41:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i think 1927 01:41:24 <Bad_Brett> cool 01:41:38 <Supercheese> Oh, venice boats 01:41:44 <Supercheese> what are they caleed, gondolas? 01:41:44 <FLHerne> We have nice punts here in Cambridge, but not big :P 01:41:46 <Supercheese> called* 01:41:53 <Eddi|zuHause> they were much larger boats than in venice 01:44:00 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-0p96gdjHc <-- i think this is the movie 01:45:13 <Supercheese> I love German, the compounding of adjectives onto nouns eliminates some of the ambiguity we have in English with adjectives 01:46:06 <Supercheese> it also leads to some hilariously long words 01:47:38 <Supercheese> just a few weeks ago, "Big gun debate". Is that a debate about big guns, or a big debate about guns? 01:48:01 <Supercheese> You'd probably compound it in German to eliminate that ambiguity 01:54:43 <Eddi|zuHause> there isn't really a lot of text in the movie :p 01:55:12 <Supercheese> Text written on various things, walls/signs/etc 01:55:40 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i'd call it "groÃe Waffendebatte" [big (gun debate)] vs. "GroÃe-Waffen-Debatte" [(big gun) debate] 01:55:50 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-21-245.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:56:05 <Supercheese> Yep, there's the compounding 01:56:21 <Supercheese> big Gundebate 01:56:34 <Supercheese> big Fruittree 01:57:12 <Supercheese> Hmm, I dunno why we can't theoretically have more compounding in English 01:57:29 <Eddi|zuHause> just do it, let it catch on :) 01:57:43 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:59:19 <Supercheese> Heh, a tank engine running cab forward 01:59:37 <Supercheese> Tankengine 02:01:30 <Supercheese> Man, lots of men in the film seems to have the stereotypical Hitler-mustache ... :S 02:01:37 <Supercheese> must have been popular 02:01:49 <Supercheese> I dunno if there's a better term for it 02:02:05 <Supercheese> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toothbrush_moustache ; it seems 02:04:05 <Supercheese> Wow, so much machinery 02:04:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it was fairly popular, yes. this was before hitlers rise, though 02:06:06 <Supercheese> Horse-drawn garbagetruck? 02:11:22 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d114-78-18-160.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 02:18:56 <Eddi|zuHause> what i find interesting is the pre-electrification S-Bahn 02:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> electric at that time was only the tram and the subway, the S-Bahn was electrified during the 30's 02:23:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the boats come somewhen after the lunch break scenes 02:25:23 <Eddi|zuHause> (the movie roughly follows the course of a day: morning commute, industrial shift start, commercial activities, lunch, afternoon shift, afternoon commute, leasure time, theater/culture, night 02:27:52 <Eddi|zuHause> especially night recordings wre a brand new thing back then... 02:30:11 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-058-014.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 02:30:54 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 02:37:05 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:38:47 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 02:54:56 *** Markavian` [~Markavian@78-105-168-146.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:56:08 *** tycoondemon2 [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 03:01:46 *** tycoondemon [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:14:05 *** LordPixaII [~pixa@85.210.76.243] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:14:16 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.243] has joined #openttd 03:24:07 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:25:21 * Supercheese hates date restrictions on objects/stations 03:25:37 <Supercheese> let me build this station, damnit 03:28:11 <Supercheese> I'd rather have vehicles be the only things date-restricted, let everything else be build whenever 03:28:24 <Supercheese> built* 03:30:32 <Supercheese> rail/roadtypes being tied to vehicles, of course 03:34:08 <Supercheese> Where do I go in the code to turn off the date check for station/object availability... 03:37:18 <Supercheese> *available = false; --> *available = true; 03:37:20 <Supercheese> perhaps 03:37:25 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 03:52:45 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:57:47 <Supercheese> Nope, that wasn't it 03:59:28 <Supercheese> Fixed objects 04:04:25 <Supercheese> ah, it's under rail_gui.cpp 04:06:52 <Supercheese> I'm accumulating many personal modifications to the OTTD source :S 04:07:17 <Supercheese> â5 distinct mods I'll now apply to all future compiles 04:12:37 <Supercheese> blaaah, still not working 04:36:16 *** Biolunar_ [mahdi@blfd-4db0e424.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 04:42:10 <Supercheese> Scratch that, more mods 04:43:36 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4d08e96e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:48:30 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye !] 06:46:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC67599.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 06:46:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC676B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:50:19 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 07:11:45 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:47:36 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:51:33 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-022-199.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 07:55:01 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 08:03:14 <peter1138> pff 08:13:08 <Pikka> .pdf 08:15:09 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:15:43 <planetmaker> png? 08:16:07 <Pikka> .pcx 08:16:14 * Pikka does it oldeschooles 08:17:39 <peter1138> .cgm? 08:18:57 <Pikka> filthy swine 08:20:47 <Pikka> ho ho 08:21:02 <Pikka> I knew as soon as I saw oztrans's "testing" grf on bananas that some drama was afoot. 08:21:08 <Supercheese> decidedly 08:21:17 <Supercheese> Simuscape is 110% drama 08:21:28 <peter1138> hmm? 08:21:53 <Pikka> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=32119&start=180 08:22:15 <Pikka> he's uploading non-grfs to bananas which say "come and get my grfs at simuscape" in the description 08:22:28 *** Twofish [~Twofish@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:25:25 <planetmaker> when is that guy no drama? 08:25:51 <Supercheese> I say permaban him and be done with it 08:26:21 <Supercheese> but of course that may come off as heavy handed 08:26:33 <planetmaker> not at all, if you want my opinion 08:27:23 <peter1138> if (*name == '!') skip(); 08:27:47 <peter1138> the new sorting is awkward for numbered grfs :( 08:28:15 <planetmaker> we have that already, kind of, peter1138. And numbering is better done trailing 08:28:31 <peter1138> i refer to 2cc set 08:28:39 <peter1138> not version numbering 08:28:41 <planetmaker> hm :_) 08:29:06 <Supercheese> Oh damn, can't edit my post at Simuscape 08:29:06 <peter1138> 8/32bpp trains too 08:29:14 <peter1138> Supercheese, lolol 08:29:37 <peter1138> Supercheese, after the furore that oztrans himself caused on tt-forums, that's funny 08:29:55 <planetmaker> hypocrite 08:30:19 <Supercheese> "You cannot edit your posts in this forum" 08:31:10 <Supercheese> Sigh, it's a shame I really enjoy the Canadian/North American grfs, else I would just quit Simuscape entirely and never look back 08:34:01 *** Twofish [~Twofish@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has left #openttd [Leaving] 08:35:36 <Pikka> of course, it won't even work 08:35:50 <Pikka> people who care about his work will check simuscape for updates anyway 08:36:11 <Pikka> babbies who download everything blindly will just download the dummy grf and not even notice that it doesn't do anything 08:36:16 <Pikka> and no-one else cares 08:36:25 <Supercheese> That is a fairly accurate summary 08:36:48 *** Twofish [~Twofish@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:37:12 <Supercheese> hahaha, there's only one entry for Simuscape at bugmenot: http://www.bugmenot.com/view/simuscape.net 08:37:23 <Supercheese> but check the comment :> 08:39:38 <Pikka> <peter1138> 8/32bpp trains too <-- 10CC also D; 08:40:13 <peter1138> i was thinking that, but it's not on bananas yet so i forgot when it came to listing it 08:40:23 <Pikka> :) 08:40:48 <Supercheese> Rename it to "Ten Cee Cee" 08:41:03 <peter1138> hmm, who wrote the build framework that chips uses? 08:41:51 <Ammler> yexo 08:41:58 <Supercheese> Or 1e-5 m³ 08:42:01 <Ammler> and pm 08:42:11 <__ln__> good fortnightmorning 08:42:18 <peter1138> cos it includes license information, but no copyright information 08:42:23 <peter1138> which is a little odd 08:42:51 <peter1138> anyway, as a tool, its licence doesn't apply to my produced work, right? 08:44:30 <Ammler> you never give up your own rights, if you participate to a gpl project, do you 08:44:45 <peter1138> ? 08:44:48 <Supercheese> Oh good lord, screw this algorithm, took me ten minutes to figure out I was supposed to be iterating backwards and not forwards 08:44:58 <Supercheese> why couldn't it say that up front? 08:45:42 <Ammler> you can still do whatever you like with your own work, the license does just matter for people using your work from chips 08:45:54 <Pikka> that's right, Ammler 08:46:33 <Pikka> unless you've given someone an exclusive licence you can always do whatever you like with your own work 08:47:01 <Pikka> (where "your own work" means "work you own the copyright to", not necessarily "what you've worked on") 08:47:11 <__ln__> Ammler: well... GNU projects often require reassigning your copyright to the FSF. 08:47:18 <peter1138> Ammler, none of it is my work 08:47:44 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@d108-180-68-236.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 08:47:52 <Ammler> "..doesn't apply to my produced work" 08:48:00 <peter1138> Ammler, oh you refer to my chips fixes... 08:48:16 <peter1138> no, i'm talking about something from scratch that uses the the Makefiles 08:48:19 <peter1138> the the the 08:48:32 <Ammler> well, the makefile framework is not seen as tool as it is part of the source 08:48:47 <Ammler> so if you use it you need to use the same license 08:49:08 <Ammler> or ask the author for permission to relicense 08:49:27 <Ammler> (might not be an issue either) 08:49:36 <planetmaker> the makefile framework would need to be applied to each NewGRF individually and is usually part of its source... just like OpenTTD's makefile 08:49:59 <peter1138> right, good that i checked then :p 08:50:08 <peter1138> hmm 08:50:12 <peter1138> i wonder about the waf license 08:50:21 <planetmaker> you need a special license? :D 08:53:09 <peter1138> no 08:53:12 <peter1138> not really 08:53:19 <peter1138> i should code it all first 08:53:21 <Ammler> __ln__: yes that you do but you can still "sell" your part with another license 08:53:22 <planetmaker> honestly, I've been thinking of licensing it as CC-BY. But... meh. I can do that on an individual basis except some additional scripts 08:54:11 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-68-236.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:54:27 <planetmaker> Ammler, not sure you can do that, if you gave away your copyright 08:54:47 <Ammler> why should you give away your copyrights? 08:54:50 <peter1138> planetmaker, as i'm fed up with licensing bullshit in our little clique, i'd've gone with BSD or something 08:54:59 <__ln__> Ammler: not really, if you have assigned the copyright to someone else. (note that assigning copyright to someone else is not required with GPL in general) 08:55:20 <planetmaker> might be better, yes, peter1138. Especially for a Makefile framework 08:55:23 <DDR_> I've got some stuff dual-licenced. It can work. 08:55:35 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:55:37 <planetmaker> I might actually change that... couldn't be arsed so far, though 08:55:42 <planetmaker> or the wtf-license 08:55:59 <DDR_> Bless the wtfpl 08:56:03 <peter1138> i mean for stuff i produced. if i ever did. 08:56:12 <DDR_> It's a wonderfully simple licence. :) 08:56:19 <Pikka> I've avoided any kind of makefile so far 08:56:30 <Ammler> imo, gpl is fine, it kinda forces people to use also gpl 08:56:32 <planetmaker> batch files, Pikka ? 08:56:45 <Pikka> but I have to say, doing industries... yuck, I see the attraction of not having one wall o' code :) 08:56:56 <__ln__> Ammler: because some projects -- e.g. the GNU project -- wants to avoid the trouble of having a thousand copyright holders, whose permission is required for any licensing changes or whatever. and because that way the FSF could theoretically defend its (formerly your) copyright in court. 08:57:00 <peter1138> DDR_, not too keen on that 08:57:04 <DDR_> I also like the wtfpl(beer) licence. It's like the wtfpl licence, except that it states that if you found my stuff useful and you're in the area you should consider buying me a beer. 08:57:19 <planetmaker> ^^ 08:57:40 <peter1138> Ammler, that's the bit i don't want to do :) 08:58:14 <Ammler> peter1138: publish the source? 08:59:15 <Ammler> as said, pm might make a exception for you, but IMO, it is fine the publishd framework is gpl 09:00:03 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@d108-180-68-236.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 09:00:36 <Supercheese> Ahh, commented out the checks for date restrictions on objects & stations, now I can build them whenever 09:01:29 <peter1138> Ammler, you can't really make an exception to a more-open license for one person 09:01:58 <planetmaker> I can. But sure enough it's then kinda pointless to keep the more restrictive one ;-) 09:02:06 <peter1138> quite 09:02:29 <planetmaker> But if it needs a makefile for one project, it can be cut down quite severely. It's rather versatile right now 09:02:37 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@212.36.5.170] has joined #openttd 09:02:40 <Ammler> well, "more-open" is also pov issue 09:03:10 <planetmaker> Ammler, less restrictions is surely more open :-) Also open to the permission to close it completely :-) 09:04:10 <Ammler> hehe, so basically you consider closing the source as more open :-) 09:04:52 <planetmaker> Ammler, no. But giving permission for another person to use it in closed-source is definitely more freedom (for that person) than forcing that person to be open-source 09:05:15 <Ammler> as said, I would not call that more open 09:07:36 <planetmaker> actually the only restriction which I want on my makefile is "you need to allow people to make modifications or derivatives of your NewGRF if you use this makefile framework" 09:08:08 <Ammler> where gpl is perfect for 09:08:15 <planetmaker> thus probably CC-SA 09:09:00 <planetmaker> without -BY -NC and -ND 09:09:10 <Ammler> you know someone who would have used your framwork but didn't because of the license? 09:09:59 <planetmaker> not exactly. But then, it's still not 100% easy to use. Needs a linux-like environment... and configuration 09:10:13 <planetmaker> there's no setup script (yet) 09:10:51 <Supercheese> Gotta love some .grf licenses: "Modifications to this graphics file are not permitted, nor is content extraction, without the explicit permission of the author." 09:10:57 <planetmaker> and it needs a version which deals with pure NML. without the fancy gcc / gimp / ... overhead 09:11:06 <Supercheese> grfcodec -d -- whoops, violated license 09:11:23 <planetmaker> yup 09:11:37 <planetmaker> that's usual for commercial bullshit 09:12:02 <Supercheese> I think I violated the license even before I loaded it in-game :S 09:12:25 <Supercheese> anyway, time to sleep 09:12:30 <planetmaker> sleep well :-) 09:12:40 <peter1138> content extraction eh? 09:13:09 <Supercheese> valete omnes 09:13:09 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0.2/20130201065344]] 09:13:09 <planetmaker> you've the license for any sleep type you want, though ;-) without requiring anyone's permission 09:13:09 <peter1138> does the game opening it count as content extraction? 09:13:21 <planetmaker> haha :-) 09:21:32 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-78-124.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:26:34 <peter1138> /win 9 09:26:36 <peter1138> werhgewrhgiehg 09:26:44 <__ln__> english only 09:27:13 <planetmaker> time to change a password? :-) 09:27:33 <peter1138> no 09:27:36 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:50:17 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 09:54:29 <peter1138> "Is there any chance of making a binary?" 09:54:41 <peter1138> is it wrong to reply with "Yes, apply the patch and compile" ? 09:56:43 <planetmaker> technically correct. socially it would count as trolling 09:57:01 <Pikka> you may be accused of being unhelpful, peter1138 09:57:15 <planetmaker> practically that might even be the right answer despite ^ 10:17:51 *** goodger [~ben@host86-166-165-94.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:21:19 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:21:30 <andythenorth> bonsoir 10:21:45 <planetmaker> bon jour 10:23:01 <Pikka> hallo mr andrew dans le nord 10:23:17 <Eddi|zuHause> <Ammler> well, the makefile framework is not seen as tool as it is part of the source <-- i don't think this is true, because what matters is what is part of the _binary_ that you distribute 10:24:46 <andythenorth> can we haz not dramaz? 10:25:47 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, would it be ok to distribute OpenTTD w/o its makefile, config.lib and configure scripts? 10:26:40 <Pikka> that's what I said, andy 10:27:19 <andythenorth> I am +1 to what you said 10:28:33 <andythenorth> I have named all my ships 10:28:38 <andythenorth> fun times 10:28:50 <andythenorth> they all fit a pattern, except one, which is joke no-one will get :( 10:29:03 <Pikka> what is it 10:29:15 * Pikka promises to get it 10:29:29 <andythenorth> Roland Tanker 10:29:30 <andythenorth> has capacity 606 (thousand l) 10:29:36 <andythenorth> used to have 808 10:30:12 <andythenorth> maybe I should give it 303 10:30:47 <Pikka> I probably get it 10:31:15 <andythenorth> it's not actually funny 10:31:17 <andythenorth> at all 10:31:19 <andythenorth> it just amuses me 10:31:59 <Pikka> which is fair enough 10:32:03 <Pikka> your ships, your rules 10:32:55 <andythenorth> maybe I should rename it to fit the pattern 10:33:01 <Pikka> my coal mine just about works :) then I will have one working industry chain 10:33:05 <andythenorth> I think the joke has outlived its life 10:33:08 <Pikka> coal mine -> powerstation 10:33:12 <andythenorth> winner 10:33:13 <Pikka> not much of a chain 10:33:19 <andythenorth> nearly as good as original TTD 10:34:06 <andythenorth> this one's nice http://www.panoramio.com/photo/75139554 10:34:09 <andythenorth> maybe I call it that 10:34:23 <Pikka> star point lighthouse tanker? 10:34:31 <andythenorth> - lighthouse 10:34:47 <Pikka> starpoint? 10:35:05 <Pikka> starp oint 10:36:10 <andythenorth> hah found a better oen 10:36:31 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pugwash_Lighthouse.jpg 10:37:36 <peter1138> god damn evolution sucks these days 10:37:41 <peter1138> (the email client) 10:37:43 <peter1138> it just crashed 10:37:44 <peter1138> fair enough 10:37:59 <peter1138> started it again and it no longer knows about email for this month :S 10:38:45 <andythenorth> mail is over-rated anyway 10:38:55 <peter1138> yers 10:39:04 <andythenorth> you don't miss much 10:39:10 <andythenorth> I have stopped reading email 10:40:36 <SpComb> as a sysadmin maintaing a mail server, I disagree! 10:40:40 <SpComb> it's highly important 10:40:59 <peter1138> my colleagues get annoyed when i don't read email 10:41:12 <SpComb> you wouldn't replace a sysadmin with bits in a google cloud, would you :< 10:43:44 <andythenorth> peter1138: if it's important, they'll phone you, no? 10:43:55 <peter1138> yes 10:44:17 <peter1138> HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THIS EMAIL IT IS IMPORTANT WE NEED TO GET ON TOP OF THIS THIS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH 10:44:23 <peter1138> conversation i just had 10:44:42 <andythenorth> conversation yes 10:44:49 <andythenorth> email is not conversation IT IS SHOUTING 10:44:56 * andythenorth digresses 10:45:14 <andythenorth> I should make some ships 10:45:17 <peter1138> no, the phone call was shouting :p 10:45:21 <andythenorth> that's ok 10:45:25 <peter1138> i haven't seen the email 10:45:27 <peter1138> because it crashed 10:45:38 <andythenorth> phone call shouting is perfectly reasonable behaviour 10:45:38 <peter1138> and is redownloading everything for feb 10:45:51 <andythenorth> I *should* do some work 10:45:57 <andythenorth> although it is my birthday 10:46:12 <peter1138> sounds like a day off 10:46:20 <andythenorth> I don't like days off 10:46:24 <peter1138> weirdo 10:46:35 <andythenorth> had a day off yesterday for the kid's birthday 10:46:49 <andythenorth> was ok I guess 10:46:50 <andythenorth> :) 10:47:58 <andythenorth> Pikka: why do Australians make so many fast catamarans? 10:48:12 <andythenorth> you're excessively enthusiastic about it 10:48:53 <peter1138> second pot of coffee brewed 10:51:57 <peter1138> "my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard" 10:51:58 <peter1138> wtf? 10:52:06 <andythenorth> great song 11:03:40 *** Devroush724 [~dennis@62.205.78.140] has joined #openttd 11:05:25 <Pikka> andythenorth, because we have a lot of water I suppose? a lot of long thin routes. 11:06:15 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:06:28 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: a) openttd binaries ARE distributed without these files, and b) openttd's GPL license states (afair) the source code version must include build scripts etc., but it does not say that these buildscripts must be under the same license 11:06:55 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:08:02 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, b) doesn't add up. Or I license every loc under a different license 11:08:09 <peter1138> who was talking about openttd? 11:08:58 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that honestly depends on how intertwined the two parts are 11:09:30 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: e.g. what if you put the sourcecode of a library that you "link to" into the source repo? 11:10:43 <planetmaker> "For an executable work, complete source code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to control compilation and installation of the executable." from the license 11:11:18 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the fact that many projects use the newgrf-makefile independently supports the theory that it's a "tool" that is just "bundled" with the source, so it doesn't have to be the same license 11:11:41 *** Devroush724 [~dennis@62.205.78.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:12:04 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, it doesn't. without it you're loosing essential parts which are needed to build the newgrfs 11:12:09 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you failed to quote the exception where you don't need to include the compiler etc. 11:12:12 <planetmaker> of course you could organize it differently 11:12:46 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, the compiler is nmlc. But the makefile surely is no compiler but a build script which contains the config to build that particular NewGRF 11:13:00 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: so where do you draw the line? 11:13:22 <Eddi|zuHause> if i have "makefile bundled with nmlc", that bundle is surely the compiler 11:14:31 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, the line is where information are added which are specific. The newgrf-makefile framework as-is, does NOT work without adapting it to every single newgrf it is used with 11:15:01 <planetmaker> a compiler needs no such configuration. The configuration (parameter, call sequence...) that's part of the build scripts. Which such are part of the source. 11:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: ao the configfile for the makefile is part of the project source, but not the makefile-framework 11:18:51 <planetmaker> That *might* work. If you could really separate the config file from the rest. Which you can't sensibly do in this case. But it's not practical either as there's no defined interface (yet?) 11:21:06 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but the argument is backwards, you argue with the GPL clause that you have to include the build scripts, but if i release a grf under a separate license which does not make that requirement, i can consider the grf and the makefile separately licensed bundles 11:21:36 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: from a closed-source bundle i can "link to" an open source bundle, just not the other way around 11:22:07 <andythenorth> what was the question? 11:22:26 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: whether using the makefile forces your project to GPL 11:23:09 <andythenorth> there's almost no case law 11:23:14 <andythenorth> so definitive answer hard 11:23:39 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 11:23:51 <Eddi|zuHause> which is my point, the initial answer was a "definitive yes", and i find that disputable 11:23:58 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: CETS python build - clearly e 11:24:00 <andythenorth> yes 11:24:12 <andythenorth> something that uses makefile for convenience 11:24:22 <andythenorth> probably 11:24:26 <andythenorth> but not clear cut 11:25:19 <andythenorth> the makefile framework is a separate project 11:25:24 <andythenorth> the grf is the output from it 11:25:34 <andythenorth> GPL does not attach to output 11:25:43 <Eddi|zuHause> we discussed the CETS build script previously, the answer there was "yes, because significant parts of the script end up in the final grf" 11:26:56 <andythenorth> is the makefile part of the program, or is it a generic tool, from which the program is output? 11:27:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it's similar to glibc ends up in gcc-compiled programs, so they had to attach a special exception clause for that 11:28:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is the question i posed 11:28:39 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 11:30:00 <andythenorth> if it's a generic tool, it doesn't matter if it's GPL or not 11:30:09 <andythenorth> except in the specific question of distribution 11:37:21 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:43:48 *** user54367644 [~user@58.146.239.106] has joined #openttd 11:44:05 *** user54367644 [~user@58.146.239.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:10 <peter1138> and the irony is i wanted to avoid license bullshit 11:45:34 *** user54367644 [~user@58.146.239.106] has joined #openttd 11:46:03 <Eddi|zuHause> ooooh, he's being so cute when he is naive :) 11:46:20 <peter1138> :P 11:47:06 <peter1138> wasn't there some kerfuffle about the newgrf documentation at some point? 11:50:02 <andythenorth> herfuffle 11:50:38 <andythenorth> herfuffle gets no grfs made :P 11:51:25 <peter1138> herfuffle? what? 11:52:00 <Markk> OpenTTD IRL: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/CTA_loop_junction.jpg 11:52:25 <peter1138> heh 11:52:50 <peter1138> now find a 4-way clover-leaf :S 11:53:39 <peter1138> weird ramp on the carpark 11:54:08 <peter1138> i can't imagine it was taller but partially removed 11:54:43 <Pikka> squeeze a couple more parking spots in on top of the ramp, or something? 11:54:48 <peter1138> possibly 11:55:05 <andythenorth> jump innit 11:55:19 *** Twofish [~Twofish@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:55:22 <SpComb> GTA 11:55:25 <peter1138> heh 11:55:30 <Pikka> modular design somehow 11:55:38 <peter1138> carmageddon! 11:55:45 <andythenorth> stops the snow getting to the ramp below 11:55:52 <andythenorth> snow here 12:05:32 *** user54367644 [~user@58.146.239.106] has quit [Quit: user54367644] 12:06:40 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> wasn't there some kerfuffle about the newgrf documentation at some point? <-- yes, it ended up with MB hosting his own private copy, which i'm not sure he keeps in sync with the tt-wiki version 12:07:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Markk: i'm pretty sure that picture was shown here before 12:10:24 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:10:30 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:10:32 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 12:13:19 <peter1138> you know what "bugs" me about questionable content? 12:13:42 <peter1138> he doesn't/can't draw aging 12:14:16 *** Pokka [~Octomom@d114-78-18-160.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:14:45 <andythenorth> ? 12:14:58 <andythenorth> url? 12:15:05 <andythenorth> or just the latest one? 12:15:15 <peter1138> any with parental-units 12:15:37 <andythenorth> yeah, don't look old enough 12:15:57 <andythenorth> yeah, the dad character looks like me 12:16:07 <andythenorth> only my kids are knee-high 12:17:39 <andythenorth> and I'm not marrying a boy-toy 12:18:23 <peter1138> dunno who old he is as there's no age :p 12:19:13 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: I'm sure of that as well. 12:19:30 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: I've seen that before and could've easily posted it before as well. :D 12:19:38 <peter1138> hmm, and is that a girls-with-slingshots reference today? 12:19:54 <peter1138> yesterday i mean 12:20:05 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:20:44 *** welshdragon [~heswelsh@2a01:4f8:160:3241:1:0:7fa7:e1c3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:21:45 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d114-78-18-160.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:22:53 *** Pokka is now known as Pikka 12:24:56 <Pinkbeast> Marten's mother used to have lines around her mouth, etc; she's got younger if anything 12:28:54 *** Twofish [~Twofish@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:29:31 *** welshdragon [~heswelsh@2a01:4f8:160:3241:1:0:7fa7:e1c3] has joined #openttd 12:37:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i got it! we should all nominate OzTrans to the Simuscape Hall of Fame 12:37:52 <andythenorth> TT Hall of Fame 12:37:56 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody has ever caused more drama to the TT community 12:37:56 <peter1138> :-) 12:37:56 <planetmaker> Hell of Fame 12:38:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and we all like drama so much 12:38:38 <peter1138> seems everyone's ignored it so far 12:39:01 <planetmaker> yes, wrong forum section ;-) 12:39:11 <andythenorth> herp, does anyone give a fuck if it's advertising or not? 12:39:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it got more (negative) attention on the german forum 12:39:22 <andythenorth> the thing that I find sad is that it breaks bananas for end user 12:39:34 <andythenorth> 'it' = zero-content grfs 12:39:35 <planetmaker> yes. And that imho makes it require action 12:39:42 <peter1138> we're not talking about that :p 12:39:47 <planetmaker> :-) 12:39:57 <andythenorth> I am now talking abotu that again 12:40:04 <andythenorth> the deal with bananas is that you click 'get content' and you get content 12:40:09 <andythenorth> in game 12:40:09 <andythenorth> no faff 12:40:12 <andythenorth> no need to open a browser 12:40:21 <andythenorth> or learn wtf on your filesystem ottd stores grfs 12:40:27 <andythenorth> or how to rescan 12:40:33 <SpComb> or learn wtf your filesystem is 12:40:39 <andythenorth> or any other crap that users should never have to see, do or think about 12:40:42 *** goodger [~ben@host86-166-165-94.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: goodger] 12:40:56 <planetmaker> you summarized it well, andythenorth 12:41:13 <planetmaker> especially as such thing usually won't work, on say, Android or so. While OpenTTD content download does 12:41:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i agree, that this GRF should be removed on "spam/advertising" grounds 12:41:25 <planetmaker> (or so I believe) 12:42:02 *** goodger [~ben@host86-166-165-94.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 12:42:47 <peter1138> just kick up a load of fuss 12:43:10 <peter1138> or ignore it 12:43:12 <peter1138> i dunno 12:43:26 <peter1138> ignoring seems a good option 12:44:59 <Eddi|zuHause> if they want to advertise, they should pay for it... 12:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause> "normal" bananas users pay for it with the right to publish their contents 12:45:54 <Eddi|zuHause> since they don't publish any content, they should pay through other means 12:46:52 <andythenorth> oops 12:47:00 <andythenorth> I forgot to ignore it 12:48:44 <peter1138> illy atn 12:48:47 <peter1138> illy? 12:48:49 <peter1138> silly 12:49:21 <andythenorth> illy 12:49:25 <andythenorth> make coffee 12:49:30 <andythenorth> I don't 12:49:31 <peter1138> i have 12:49:33 <andythenorth> I drink coffee 12:49:39 <peter1138> drinking it now 12:49:48 <andythenorth> rotgut 12:50:16 <andythenorth> new ship names http://213.133.67.181:8192/zz_dangerous_things/tt_foundry/sets/FISH/list_all_vehicles 12:50:20 <Eddi|zuHause> english only!! 12:50:36 <andythenorth> lots beginning with F it seems 12:52:30 <Eddi|zuHause> the tracking table layout has lots of similarity to my tracking table! i demand copyright! :p 12:52:45 <andythenorth> I'll pay royaltie 12:52:52 <andythenorth> I'm quite generous 12:53:00 <andythenorth> 30% of everything I earn from this grf 12:53:11 <goodger> that seems like a reasonable settlement 12:59:23 <Pikka> andythenorth, argue argue argue :} 12:59:35 <andythenorth> silly me 12:59:39 <andythenorth> dunno wtf I did that 12:59:44 <andythenorth> I should deletey 12:59:49 * andythenorth is making ships 12:59:52 <andythenorth> and having a happy birthday 13:00:02 <Pikka> happy birthday! 13:00:11 <goodger> ^ 13:00:49 <peter1138> Pikka, Simutrans-bashing :D 13:00:59 <Pikka> yeah 13:01:02 <Pikka> that's not what I meant, is it? 13:01:05 <peter1138> no 13:01:06 <andythenorth> where is the roll-eyes icon? 13:01:15 <andythenorth> :) 13:01:21 <Pikka> I fix 13:01:22 <andythenorth> Pikka: edity edit 13:01:23 <Pikka> too late! 13:01:38 <welshdragon> :rolleyes: 13:01:54 <Pikka> simuscape, simutrans 13:01:55 <Pikka> same thing! 13:02:01 <andythenorth> pikka pokka 13:03:18 <Pikka> andy wandy 13:03:46 <andythenorth> so anyway 13:03:51 <andythenorth> is Tyloegrund a nice name for a freighter? 13:04:00 * andythenorth is unconvinced 13:04:05 <andythenorth> naming of parts 13:04:25 <Pikka> I dunno 13:04:28 <Pikka> sounds a bit foreign :D 13:04:37 <Pikka> but no umlauts 13:04:53 <andythenorth> dalsfjord ? 13:05:33 <andythenorth> Forsnes 13:05:34 <Pikka> oh 13:05:48 <Pikka> Tylögrund 13:06:04 <Pikka> mit der umlaut, better 13:06:18 <andythenorth> umlaut hurt my brain 13:06:23 <andythenorth> and my unicode handling :P 13:06:32 <andythenorth> Sandholmen Freighter 13:06:41 <peter1138> so naive 13:06:51 <peter1138> naïve even 13:06:55 <peter1138> i'm sure i typed that :S 13:07:27 <__ln__> yes, need to be more coöperative 13:07:34 <peter1138> café? 13:07:41 <peter1138> façade? 13:07:55 <planetmaker> à la carte 13:08:14 <__ln__> nazgûl 13:08:25 <goodger> coöperative is an abomination invented by the new yorker to punish their typesetters 13:08:38 <planetmaker> nazgûl à la carte? sounds... devious ;-) 13:09:27 <andythenorth> Flatholmen Freighter? 13:09:59 <peter1138> Charlotte Brontë 13:10:05 <peter1138> Zoë 13:10:19 <peter1138> yeah, we don't have accents 13:10:34 <andythenorth> Hesnesbregen Freighter :) 13:10:36 <__ln__> btw, why is there a character called Zoë in almost all recent american tv series? 13:10:45 <andythenorth> Hesnesbregen is a nice sound, in my head 13:11:18 <peter1138> jalapeño? 13:11:27 <Pikka> get out 13:12:05 <peter1138> gët õūt 13:12:19 <andythenorth> FÊrder 13:12:28 <andythenorth> do we have the Ê char in game? 13:12:42 <Pikka> ying tong yiddle I po 13:12:49 <__ln__> andythenorth: it's part of latin-1 13:13:53 <Eddi|zuHause> how can you serve a nazgul if you can't kill it? 13:14:25 <Pikka> __ln__, I don't think there is 13:14:38 <Pikka> a character named zoe in almost all recent american tv series 13:14:57 <andythenorth> I don't see one in Dora the Explorer 13:14:59 <Pikka> "almost all" is quite a lot. 13:15:09 <Pikka> and almost certainly includes dora the explorer :) 13:15:19 <__ln__> Pikka: Firefly, House of Cards, others. 13:16:38 <Pikka> that's two 13:16:40 <Eddi|zuHause> "almost all" means "the measure of the set of exceptions is zero" 13:16:45 <Pikka> one of which isn't terribly recent ;) 13:16:56 <peter1138> "almost all" means "almost all that __ln__ watches" 13:17:01 <Pikka> also americans remaking house of cards, sounds terrible 13:17:46 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> do we have the Ê char in game? <-- you can provide missing glyphs in your grf 13:19:41 <V453000> peter1138: how far did the idea with a spec for custom junctions @railtypes get? 13:19:45 <V453000> also morning 13:19:49 <peter1138> spec? 13:19:53 <peter1138> it was coded 13:19:55 <peter1138> there's a patch 13:20:15 <V453000> is it usable yet? 13:20:27 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:20:59 <peter1138> if you apply the patch, probably. i never tested it cos there's no grf for it 13:21:33 <V453000> I intend to make a grf for it 13:21:56 <peter1138> ok 13:26:03 <andythenorth> see, MB is right again 13:26:23 <andythenorth> he usually is, except when he's wrong 13:26:33 <Eddi|zuHause> in which context now? 13:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause> there are like 5 different discussions here in parallel 13:26:52 <Pikka> stranger things have happened 13:26:59 <andythenorth> bananas discussion 13:27:19 <peter1138> let's add 3d models to openttd 13:27:20 <andythenorth> I like MB, he has character :) 13:27:22 * __ln__ is right even when he's wrong 13:27:28 <andythenorth> peter1138: ok 13:27:31 <andythenorth> saves drawing 13:27:33 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 13:27:33 <peter1138> yes 13:27:40 <peter1138> or maybe voxels 13:27:45 <peter1138> or whatever that word was 13:27:59 <peter1138> cubicles 13:29:10 <V453000> I dont even understand how can any software exist without voxels 13:29:58 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. cubicles it was :p 13:30:12 <andythenorth> openplans 13:30:59 <planetmaker> it breaks for end users MUCH less, if they use the proper grfID for their "advertizement" iGRFs. If properly done, end users won't see them anymore once they have the "full" grf 13:31:26 <planetmaker> So, as done now, it's quite bad 13:31:50 <planetmaker> but as they "just decide" so we may "just decide". Discussion is nothing anyone ever tried 13:32:04 <planetmaker> nor seems interested in. So whatever. Just drama is the interest 13:32:09 <Pikka> I don't see what's wrong with in planetmaker 13:32:13 <Pikka> it's just a grf like any other 13:32:15 <andythenorth> I wouldn't bother with 'us' and 'them' :) 13:32:23 <andythenorth> it's not very useful, in the long run 13:32:27 <planetmaker> Pikka, it spams the NewGRF list of users with double and tripple entries 13:32:34 <andythenorth> there are some silly users who have made some silly grfs 13:32:36 <andythenorth> that much is not new 13:32:42 <planetmaker> If they use the right grfID, then the downloaded full NewGRF will simply be shown instead of the igrf 13:32:53 <Pikka> I don't think that bothers the users who just download and install everything 13:32:54 <planetmaker> thus it's considered a valid "update" to the bananas entry 13:33:10 <planetmaker> I'm not concerned about those 13:33:30 <Pikka> well which "newgrf list" are you concerned about, then? 13:34:41 <planetmaker> Pikka, ingame. For the users which actually get the NewGRFs 13:35:15 <planetmaker> If you got a newer version, then bananas won't give you its version either. IIRC 13:35:53 <andythenorth> I would file it under 'people do silly things' 13:36:01 <andythenorth> unless it's actually breaking savegames 13:36:01 <Pikka> so would I 13:36:51 <andythenorth> "something must be done" <- except not really 13:37:14 <planetmaker> people complain about spam... to *us* 13:37:31 <andythenorth> by email? 13:37:34 <andythenorth> or publicly? 13:37:45 <andythenorth> or by pm? 13:38:10 <planetmaker> in the bug tracker... in the forums... 13:38:24 <andythenorth> so close them as invalid 13:38:25 <V453000> it is breaking savegames obviously, as it uses different IDs 13:38:30 <andythenorth> hmm 13:38:35 <andythenorth> failure demand :P 13:38:44 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Failure_demand 13:39:22 <peter1138> if they used the real grf's grfid then it would break for people who already have the grf but don't want to upgrade to the latest version 13:40:37 <planetmaker> peter1138, it wouldn't. savegames go by md5sum. 13:40:45 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 13:40:46 <Pikka> eh 13:40:50 <peter1138> i wouldn't be able to start a new game with it 13:41:05 <peter1138> because i've gone "upgrade all" which is a fairly common use-case 13:41:19 <planetmaker> peter1138, OpenTTD by default only shows the newgrf with the highest action14 version for a newgrf. So it's easy 13:41:20 <peter1138> and thus the latest is the fake grf, not the real grf 13:41:27 <V453000> the real grf would have to be +1 version 13:41:34 <planetmaker> thus what you describe wouldn't happen 13:41:36 <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> it is breaking savegames obviously, as it uses different IDs <-- yes, so would you go forward and talk to the GRF author to change it? 13:41:48 <V453000> well yeah you would have to make latest the real one 13:41:53 <peter1138> the real grf doesn't have an action 14 i think 13:42:00 <Pikka> planetmaker, I think part of what oztrans's theory was is that he could use the "informational" grf to tell people when there was a new version of the real grf out 13:42:00 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: I did actually 13:42:05 <planetmaker> that's the author's fault clearly 13:42:10 <peter1138> planetmaker, it's pre-action 14 13:42:16 <V453000> they dont really care 13:42:36 <V453000> OzTrans I did try the same GRFID initially; but found that having different IDs is better and with less hassles. Even if you have both loaded, they don't bite each other. 13:42:37 <Pikka> the old one was, the one on simutransscape isn't 13:42:45 <planetmaker> that'll be even worse, Pikka ... 13:42:46 <peter1138> yeah, i have the old one 13:42:53 <Pikka> anyway 13:43:04 <peter1138> if they used the same grfid, and i'd done "upgrade all" then it would've removed my choice of the working grf 13:43:31 <V453000> ah that way you mean 13:43:33 <Pikka> all the complaints are like those people who ring up to complain about a tv show that they didn't watch, because their newspaper told them it was filth. 13:43:36 <V453000> well there could be same id for version 1.5 13:43:39 <V453000> not for 1.1 13:43:43 <Pikka> no-one's really bothered, people just like complaining 13:44:12 <andythenorth> Pikka: how dare you. I am morally offended. 13:45:52 <V453000> I think the content should be removed and a rule added to ToS, because this thing does absolutely nothing related to bananas purposes - content availability and also availability for saves with old versions 13:45:57 <V453000> this is just spam 13:46:41 <Pikka> V453000: it's content 13:46:50 <V453000> not really 13:46:53 <Pikka> the fact that it's content that doesn't interest you is neither here nor there 13:46:58 <V453000> it purposedly cant be used in the game 13:47:15 <V453000> it does interest me 13:47:16 <andythenorth> :roll: 13:47:20 <andythenorth> don't add anything to ToS 13:47:23 <Pikka> it can be used in the game 13:47:25 <andythenorth> it's just a non-issue 13:47:29 <Pikka> it just doesn't do much interesting 13:47:30 <andythenorth> it's a valid grf, complies with the spec 13:47:36 <Pikka> just like almost every other grf out there ;) 13:48:13 <V453000> spam 13:48:32 <Pikka> well what exactly would you add to the ToS? 13:48:35 <planetmaker> Pikka, it defies and sabotages the purpose of bananas. Willfully. 13:49:01 <V453000> ^ 13:49:05 <andythenorth> yes, but so what 13:49:10 <andythenorth> what harm is done? 13:49:16 <Pikka> it defies and sabotages the purpose of bananas 13:49:29 <Pikka> in the same way as a small, slightly over-ripe grape blocks a major arterial road 13:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the "harm" is that "we" have to discuss it 13:49:46 <andythenorth> even worse if we have to rewrite ToS 13:49:54 <andythenorth> and have all contributors accept new terms 13:49:56 <Pikka> let's ban grapes 13:50:02 <andythenorth> loads of BS for zero real gain 13:50:42 <planetmaker> <Eddi|zuHause> the "harm" is that "we" have to discuss it <-- that 13:50:42 <V453000> well, you dont need to rewrite ToS if there is a gentleman agreement that this shit doesnt get created :P 13:50:56 <Pikka> add it to the ToS, quick 13:51:13 *** mode/#openttd [+m] by peter1138 13:51:15 <peter1138> no you don't have to discuss it 13:51:23 *** mode/#openttd [-m] by peter1138 13:51:25 <Eddi|zuHause> :p 13:51:26 <V453000> I mean seriously, if someone uses a free service like devzone or bananas, they give something back. For devzone open license, for bananas the content. This is only being abused as advertisement space 13:52:09 <V453000> if they so hate bananas to refuse adding real content, let them hate it 13:52:11 <andythenorth> we should modify the WTFPL 13:52:13 <andythenorth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTFPL 13:52:20 <Eddi|zuHause> if the ToS already forbids spam, and (some) operators of bananas judge this as spam, then no change of the ToS is needed 13:52:22 <andythenorth> add a second clause. 1) Don't break the law 13:52:24 <V453000> but making such disgusting workarounds like this which dont even technically work well is just wrong to me 13:52:38 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: :) 13:52:44 <Pikka> what are you going to do about it, V453000? 13:52:46 <Pikka> let it go :) 13:52:58 <V453000> me? I cant do much but I will say my opinion which is what I do 13:53:08 <Eddi|zuHause> MB's argument of "it's a valid NewGRF" does not go very far... SPAM mails are valid e-mails 13:53:20 <V453000> ^ 13:55:50 <lugo> so what's wrong with treating it like spam which got through the filter (or gentlemens agreement) and just ignore it? 13:56:13 <andythenorth> nothing 13:56:19 <andythenorth> we just can't seem to agree on that 13:57:33 * Pikka can 13:59:18 <Pikka> the alternative is that bananas becomes a moderated service, which I can't see being good for anyone. and even if it did become that, I don't think this file should be removed. :) 14:00:00 <V453000> not like it wasnt moderated when mistress sac demanded removal of her trees 14:00:09 <Pikka> if we're removing content that doesn't work properly or breaks the game, we can start with "OpenTTD Plus" and then move on to NARS2. ;) 14:00:26 <Pikka> copyright infringements are different 14:01:19 <V453000> she put it there herself? 14:01:32 <V453000> also this isnt breaking the game but spamming bananas 14:01:38 <andythenorth> shrug 14:01:45 * Pikka also 14:01:52 <andythenorth> Pikka pops: 2/3 of Squid Ate FISH https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3776/Squid%20Ate%20FISH.png 14:02:01 <andythenorth> I need some people who draw next 14:02:03 <V453000> idk how bananas or nars2 breaks the game either but that is off topic :) 14:02:11 <andythenorth> what are they called? 'Artists' or somethign 14:02:15 <Pikka> 2/3 squid can't be wrong 14:02:16 <andythenorth> V453000: draw me some ships? 14:02:32 <andythenorth> Pikka: see what I did? Not loads of ships all same size 14:02:32 <V453000> im actually drawing my own ships andy 14:02:38 <Pikka> I like it 14:02:46 <Pikka> moar sails though 14:03:03 <andythenorth> hmmm 14:03:05 <andythenorth> I'll certainly consider that 14:03:11 <Pikka> psh, you won't 14:03:52 <andythenorth> I considered it 14:03:57 <V453000> behold https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/arsssse.png https://dl.dropbox.com/u/20419525/arssssse.png 14:04:25 <Pikka> those aren't ships 14:04:33 <V453000> oh they are :D 14:05:05 <Pikka> they're railways disguised as water, but they're not ships 14:05:22 <MNIM> andythenorth: I take it you still need to order ID by intro date? 14:05:28 <V453000> aaand these railways can have ships on them 14:05:31 <V453000> train ships anyway 14:05:44 <andythenorth> MNIM? 14:05:51 <MNIM> in SQUID 14:06:03 <andythenorth> you want order by intro date? Just order that in the menu 14:06:14 <andythenorth> I am ordering IDs by 'it looks pleasing to andythenorth' 14:06:25 <MNIM> silly andy 14:06:31 <V453000> andythenorth: you could actually draw some ships for me 14:06:36 <V453000> now we are talking 14:06:42 <andythenorth> ho ho no 14:07:03 <V453000> how surprising!! 14:07:07 <V453000> :( 14:07:08 * V453000 sad 14:12:19 <andythenorth> has anyone's favourite ship gone missing in that Squid screenie above? o_O 14:14:04 <V453000> did the tt-forums BK discussion just get removed? 14:14:10 <Pikka> I just split it 14:14:26 <Pikka> if planetmaker wants the discussion, he can have it, it's now in general openttd ;} 14:14:48 <V453000> valid name 14:14:49 <peter1138> no office 14:14:54 <peter1138> no offence 14:15:02 <peter1138> but moving it there was silly 14:15:09 <Pikka> it's a silly discussion 14:15:39 <andythenorth> off topic? 14:15:48 <Pikka> and nothing to do with newgrf development 14:15:49 <Pikka> if the openttd moderators want to rename it, lock it, whatever, they should. 14:15:52 <planetmaker> what, Pikka ? 14:16:09 <planetmaker> the one in Transport Tycoon? Doesn't belong in OpenTTD 14:16:20 <Pikka> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=64363 14:17:31 <planetmaker> why did you do that for all the gods and devils out there? 14:17:57 <Pikka> because if I locked it people would whinge at me 14:18:06 <Pikka> instead, I pass the buck :) 14:18:09 <planetmaker> so... and if I just move it back? 14:18:30 <planetmaker> really, what's the point Pikka? 14:18:45 <peter1138> no, not the transport tycoon one 14:18:56 <Pikka> I wanted to split it 14:19:06 <Pikka> and this conversation has nothing to do with newgrf development 14:19:15 <Pikka> if you can think of a better place than general openttd, move it. 14:19:21 <planetmaker> spam bin 14:19:30 <Pikka> go ahead 14:19:45 <planetmaker> and it's all about newgrf development 14:19:55 <Pikka> no it's not, it's about what goes on bananas 14:20:02 <peter1138> technically it's about newgrf releases ;) 14:20:14 <andythenorth> thread tennis 14:20:19 <Pikka> it's an openttd issue, not a newgrf one 14:20:20 * andythenorth goes for lunch 14:20:23 <andythenorth> haz fun 14:20:28 <Pikka> enjoy, andy 14:20:33 <andythenorth> thanks :) 14:20:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:22:50 <planetmaker> this all sucks big time 14:22:51 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [Verlassend] 14:23:49 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:24:40 <Pikka> did I break planetmaker? D: 14:25:17 <V453000> well you declare ignoring stuff and then you do weird stuff, not too surprising to me 14:26:39 <peter1138> Pikka, first 3 posts are not related 14:26:53 <Pikka> well, context or something 14:27:15 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 14:27:42 <peter1138> they're 6 months old 14:27:55 <Pikka> I split from where the conversation stopped being about the newgrf and started being about bananas, I didn't look at the dates 14:28:07 <Pikka> I don't think it matters enough to fix? 14:28:42 *** goodger [~ben@host86-166-165-94.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: goodger] 14:28:47 <Pikka> ameecher's link just goes back to the first post of the old thread 14:32:37 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:34:47 *** goodger [~ben@host86-166-165-94.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 14:35:20 <Eddi|zuHause> http://24.media.tumblr.com/c54c6e761339e4fb356a1b3bca65da49/tumblr_mhdn7nZxmg1qe9g4mo1_r1_500.jpg 14:41:38 <peter1138> yes 14:48:26 <peter1138> http://i.imgur.com/6x1al.jpg 14:48:45 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:43 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d114-78-18-160.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:52:37 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 14:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that comparison isn't exactly new :) 15:06:43 <Flygon> Yknow you're playing Civilization correctly when there's so many cities 15:06:48 <Flygon> It overflows into Australian names 15:28:42 <Flygon> Annnnd I overflowed the name chart completely 15:30:19 * Pinkbeast plays small maps and abhors any game where I don't know which city is which immediately, so, er... 15:31:34 <Flygon> Ah, I keep track easily enough 15:31:50 <Flygon> Trying out this world map that's over 32767 total squares 15:32:17 <peter1138> small then 15:32:24 <peter1138> oh, civ, not ottd 15:33:41 <Flygon> Oh... 15:33:42 <Flygon> Oh no 15:33:42 <kormer> Does anyone here now why I'd get an error "unknown debug level ai=5" when doing openttd.exe -d ai=5? 15:33:51 <Flygon> The AI used the same overflow chart 15:33:56 <Flygon> Now they have cities that share names with mine 15:34:01 <peter1138> uheheh 15:34:47 <Pinkbeast> I raise an eyebrow whenever Istanbul and Constantinople appear on the same map 15:35:00 <peter1138> kormer, kormer because "ai" isn't a valid debug thing 15:35:27 <peter1138> might be script you're looking for, dunno though 15:35:34 <kormer> am I doing it wrong then? I copied from here: http://wiki.openttd.org/AI:Need_To_Know#Logging_and_Debug_Panel 15:36:28 <peter1138> it's probably out of date 15:37:26 <Flygon> Pinkbeast: Took me a few seconds, hahaha 15:38:04 <kormer> I'm trying to get the ai/gs debug console copied to a file outside of openttd, is there another way of going about that? 15:41:43 <peter1138> script 15:41:49 <peter1138> openttd -d script=5 15:42:29 <kormer> thanks 15:42:38 <kormer> I'll try that and make a note in the wiki 15:44:45 <kormer> IT WORKED! Thanks. Multiplayer league tables here we come. 15:45:42 <Flygon> Pinkbeast: On the upside. 7 move Ironclads. These buggers move faster than any ship that could possibly exist in OpenTTD. :B 15:46:06 <peter1138> pfft 15:46:14 <peter1138> fast ships smell in ottd 15:46:21 <peter1138> instant stoppage! 15:46:55 <Flygon> Then use Ironclads. 15:47:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:49:41 <Pinkbeast> I infer you're in crazy-mod land 15:51:49 <peter1138> V453000, lol @ railships 16:00:35 <V453000> :) 16:00:48 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC676B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:01:50 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC676B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 16:07:02 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:23:42 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 16:40:34 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 16:41:45 *** goodger [~ben@host86-166-165-94.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: goodger] 16:42:47 *** goodger [~ben@host86-166-165-94.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:51:23 *** Flygon [~Flygon@218-214-18-147.people.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A4D2.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:57:13 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:04:03 <andythenorth> fast pax ferry 300 pax / non-bulk cargos: hovercraft or cat? 17:04:07 <andythenorth> there are already a few cats 17:04:11 <andythenorth> only one hovercraft 17:04:17 <andythenorth> hovercraft are super awesome, right? 17:05:29 <V453000> definitely cats 17:05:32 <V453000> nothing else but cats 17:06:14 <andythenorth> because..? 17:07:09 <V453000> because cats 17:07:11 <V453000> meow 17:07:12 <V453000> purr 17:07:13 <V453000> fur 17:07:16 <V453000> and stuff 17:07:49 <andythenorth> silly old V453000 17:08:15 <V453000> no fur? :( 17:08:29 <andythenorth> furry ship 17:08:35 <V453000> YES 17:08:49 <V453000> see, you are getting the idea of awesome 17:09:40 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 17:11:29 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 17:12:00 <V453000> like a furball with eyes 17:12:03 <V453000> unmatched awesomeness 17:13:38 <V453000> http://www.funnycutepics.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/black-cat-furball.jpg 17:17:44 * MNIM chases it like an angry klingon 17:20:56 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:24:45 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:27:00 *** Twofish [~Twofish@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:27:31 <__ln__> http://www.imdb.com/media/rm375761920/tt1707386 17:35:16 *** tycoondemon2 [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 17:38:10 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:40:21 *** daz [~daz@77-255-62-37.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #openttd 17:41:49 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 17:45:55 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:51:08 *** tycoondemon [tycoondemo@524B5F54.cm-4-4b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 17:56:58 <Terkhen> hello 17:57:05 <andythenorth> hi hi Terkhen 18:08:08 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:10:59 <peter1138> XeryusTC, what does simutrans have to do with anything? 18:12:01 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@212.36.5.170] has quit [Quit: Tvel] 18:12:43 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:15:31 <V453000> mixing up simutrans and simuscape 18:15:56 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:16:28 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 18:16:31 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 18:18:35 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:19:05 *** M1zera [~Miranda@ip-78-102-228-126.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:22:16 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-022-199.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:31:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A4D2.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:37:57 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:15 <andythenorth> "Endeavour Rig Supply Fast Catamaran" 18:38:21 <andythenorth> Rig Supply Fast Catamaran is a ship type in Squid 18:38:26 <andythenorth> bit long eh? 18:38:30 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:38:38 <andythenorth> Utlity Catamaran? 18:38:42 <andythenorth> Catamaran Workboat? 18:39:52 <Eddi|zuHause> as long as the ship sprites? :p 18:40:17 <andythenorth> at least 18:43:35 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/lGGx7h8.jpg 18:43:40 <NGC3982> Happy pre-valentines day. 18:45:25 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 18:53:34 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:53:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:59:19 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7bbe.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:01:49 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 19:12:14 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:12:17 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 19:12:41 <Alberth> hi hi 19:13:11 <andythenorth> hi Alberth 19:15:04 <andythenorth> squid https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/3794/squid_buy_menu.png 19:15:30 <andythenorth> maybe all good grfs should fit the buy menu into 800x600 screenie o_O 19:15:43 <peter1138> no 19:16:13 <andythenorth> spoilsport 19:17:19 <andythenorth> where's your sense of arbitrary rule making? 19:17:39 <peter1138> i play at 640x480 19:18:00 <__ln__> no you don't 19:18:03 <andythenorth> he might 19:18:06 <andythenorth> I used to 19:18:12 <andythenorth> it's much more pleasant 19:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> how come your pink placeholder ferries are at totally different offsets? 19:18:26 <andythenorth> hysterical raisins 19:18:43 <andythenorth> to do with copying and pasting in the CMS that drives the set config 19:19:11 <andythenorth> 640x480 makes the GUI way nicer to use 19:19:20 <andythenorth> zoom is good and all, but the GUI doesn't zoom :P 19:20:38 <Eddi|zuHause> use biggui 19:21:25 <Eddi|zuHause> or downgrade to 0.5-ish and use Ctrl+D :p 19:23:05 <andythenorth> I need to downgrade OS X 19:23:13 <andythenorth> this is the usual no mac dev issue :) 19:23:25 <andythenorth> o_O I could run it in virtual box? 19:24:00 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> graviton.oftc.net quits: bo-31027, TinoDidriksen, Ttech, jonty-comp, tokai|mdlx, ivan`, Yexo, +michi_cc, eQualizer, dihedral, (+10 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 19:24:10 *** Netsplit over, joins: Wing_, jonty-comp, M1zera, KouDy, tokai|mdlx, Guilux, lugo, Extrems, Cybertinus, bo-31027 (+10 more) 19:24:17 <Eddi|zuHause> so, who tripped over the cable? 19:24:51 <frosch123> a big plug blocked the only left socket for the coffee machine 19:25:41 <andythenorth> can someone unplug Dave W? 19:25:58 <frosch123> oh yeah, i would also be interested in that 19:26:00 <andythenorth> I find him odd 19:26:12 <andythenorth> what is he useful for? 19:26:31 <andythenorth> his mission seems to be somewhat towards being disliked 19:26:34 <andythenorth> which is odd 19:27:27 <Eddi|zuHause> nominate him for the simuscape hall of fame :) 19:28:38 <andythenorth> this is a good call 19:28:42 <andythenorth> TT hall of fame /s 19:28:59 <andythenorth> after a split, my client is insanely slow to render messages 19:29:02 <andythenorth> is that just me? 19:29:12 <peter1138> yes 19:29:22 <andythenorth> stupid client 19:29:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 19:29:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:29:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 19:29:35 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:33:57 <planetmaker> actually Dave W is the first to call the situation by the name ;-) 19:35:30 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24990 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-02-13 18:45:20 UTC) 19:35:31 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 19:35:32 <DorpsGek> czech - 36 changes by greem 19:35:33 <DorpsGek> greek - 24 changes by Evropi 19:35:34 <DorpsGek> japanese - 45 changes by Aknuth 19:35:35 <DorpsGek> vietnamese - 37 changes by myquartz 19:36:36 <andythenorth> planetmaker: you think OzTrans is trolling? :) 19:36:50 <andythenorth> or Kamnet? 19:36:57 <andythenorth> it's quite a funny troll if so 19:37:39 <planetmaker> Oz is definitely trolling 19:37:56 <planetmaker> for as long as I can remember 19:38:15 <andythenorth> he gets good troll points 19:38:27 <andythenorth> it's quite well crafted and executed if so 19:38:43 <andythenorth> wonder if kamnet is in on the gag 19:38:52 <andythenorth> or is a hapless victim? o_O 19:38:57 <andythenorth> biab 19:38:58 <andythenorth> pub 19:39:00 <planetmaker> "on the gag"? 19:39:11 <andythenorth> informed participant 19:39:14 <andythenorth> or fall guy 19:39:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 19:40:40 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host204-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:40:48 <Wolf01> hello o/ 19:40:52 <Alberth> hi Wolf01 19:46:57 *** snorre_ [~snorre@c4A06BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has joined #openttd 19:48:45 *** snorre [~snorre@c4A06BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:48:53 <planetmaker> hello Wolf01 19:57:17 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:28 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:04:32 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 20:06:14 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 20:07:21 <Alberth> is there a list which newgrf string commands may be used for plural and/or gender? http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Language_files#String_parameters 20:17:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BCBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:27:54 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@31.124.52.231] has joined #openttd 20:30:27 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@d5153E72C.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 20:30:39 <__ln__> http://blogs.agu.org/landslideblog/2013/02/13/an-unusual-colliery-landslide-yesterday-hatfield-stainforth-in-northern-england/ 20:32:16 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:35:42 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:39:39 *** andythenorth_ [~andytheno@31.124.52.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:36 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-022-199.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 20:48:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:51:26 <andythenorth> Rubidium: nice reply, but I don't get the issue :) !!BK Tunnels grf works exactly as intended. Players can install it no problem. 20:55:56 <Rubidium> intended by who? 20:56:37 <andythenorth> well 20:56:44 <Rubidium> imagine someone draws some very nice ships, and then puts a NewGRF with !!<name of set> on bananas which only contains some text 20:56:44 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:56:47 <andythenorth> or just tell OzTrans he's being a dick and hide the content 20:56:53 <andythenorth> one or the other 20:57:16 <andythenorth> it's not like arguments with OzTrans are a new thing 20:57:18 <Rubidium> now, some users sees a screenshot, asks what GRF it is and it told it is <name of set> 20:57:40 <Rubidium> user goes to bananas, selects !!<name of set> (the only one showing with he filter) 20:57:53 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:57:54 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 20:58:00 <Rubidium> downloads it, installs it, and is annoyed that the NewGRF does not work (no new ships) 20:58:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i should put a GRF on bananas: "i have a nice grf, but you cannot have it!" 20:58:11 <andythenorth> [shrug] 20:58:19 <andythenorth> like pikka said, lots of newgrfs don't really work 20:58:26 <andythenorth> it's not new to have crappy content on bananas 20:58:33 <andythenorth> nor is it new to have falling outs with OzTrans 20:58:35 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: make lots of nice screen shots and post them everywhere!! 20:58:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and then "my GRF is better than MBs and Pikkas combined, but you can still not have it" 20:58:54 <Rubidium> andythenorth: crappy content != effectively no content 20:59:21 <andythenorth> did you remove it already then? :) 20:59:48 <Rubidium> I won't remove it, I'll just make it invisible 20:59:52 <Kjetil> oztrans ? 20:59:53 <andythenorth> \o/ 21:00:18 <andythenorth> maybe Apple examples aren't the best here, but there *is* a sound effect on the mac called sosumi 21:00:40 <andythenorth> which relates to "Apple Records had an injunction preventing Apple Computer making devices with playback capability" 21:01:58 <andythenorth> arsing about with the ToS is a legal headache, with no purpose, as nothing community related is coming to court anyway 21:02:18 <andythenorth> there might be some forum moaning, then just lock the thread 21:03:39 <Kjetil> just put "This is not a democracy in the ToS" 21:04:03 <SpComb> I doubt ToS is a legal anything much 21:04:59 <SpComb> but I guess the "educate grf authors about how bananas works" angle has already been tried? 21:05:26 <Rubidium> yeah 21:05:52 <Rubidium> issue is that they want to delete the GRF, and if it is up to them, deleting it from bananas triggers deleting it from the user's computer as well 21:07:27 <andythenorth> well that's not how it works 21:07:31 <andythenorth> so the issue can be closed: invalid 21:07:46 <andythenorth> like you said, bananas makes a promise / policy about savegames 21:08:05 <andythenorth> it's not a fucking DRM system 21:08:28 <andythenorth> content I've got doesn't stop working because 'you' decide (unless you - Rubidium decide :P ) 21:08:34 <Rubidium> and since they don't want their actual content on it, but they "need" it to be visible in bananas they are trying to do tricks 21:08:42 <andythenorth> I don't mind DRM when I know what I'm getting into, i.e. iTunes 21:09:00 <andythenorth> but that's not OpenTTD 21:09:16 <Kjetil> *mumbles something about Open* 21:09:19 <Rubidium> even so, if we add it to OpenTTD, then the next day someone will post binaries with that (mis)feature removed 21:09:48 <andythenorth> I quite like the hax they've done though. Creative :) 21:11:01 <andythenorth> still 21:11:07 <andythenorth> just hide it 21:11:11 <Eddi|zuHause> not everything that is creative is a benefit in the long term 21:11:19 <andythenorth> OzTrans doesn't give a fuck about community, he's shown that over and over again 21:11:23 <andythenorth> so bin him 21:11:23 <Alberth> imho there are far better ways to spend your time 21:11:39 <andythenorth> whereas this otherwise escalates into a stupid 'vs. Simuscape issue' 21:11:53 <andythenorth> which makes SAC sad, because blatantly she really wants everyone to get along nicely 21:12:08 <andythenorth> and makes me bored, only not bored enough to ignore it :P 21:12:52 <andythenorth> I wonder if SAC has accidentally landed herself the worst possible people from a community perspective 21:13:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: is the pink ship some kind of dummy/placeholder sprite? 21:13:27 <andythenorth> she wants somewhere nice and safe and friendly, and has at least one person who has managed to alienate nearly everyone 21:13:36 <andythenorth> frosch123: no it's a new style I'm trying :) 21:13:45 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i sure hope so :p 21:14:14 <frosch123> well, you can never be sure about andy :) 21:14:44 <Eddi|zuHause> you have a point there... 21:14:55 <frosch123> the little cumbrae freighter looks nice 21:15:03 <andythenorth> I am proud of that one 21:15:18 <andythenorth> it's efficient on pixel use 21:15:19 <frosch123> it's really "little" :) 21:15:23 <andythenorth> reduces CPU time 21:24:07 <peter1138> hmm 21:24:16 <peter1138> cucumber freighter 21:25:33 *** Superuser [~root@host81-129-131-143.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:25:37 <Superuser> hello again 21:26:14 <__ln__> you again 21:26:29 <Superuser> STR_TIMETABLE_EXPECTED_TOOLTIP: '{BLACK}Switch between expected and schedule' 21:26:39 <Superuser> hmm... shouldn't it be scheduled? ;) 21:26:49 <Superuser> (note the past tense) 21:28:38 <Superuser> STR_AI_DEBUG_NAME_AND_VERSION: {BLACK}{STRING} (v{NUM}) 21:28:47 <andythenorth> peter1138: http://www.worth1000.com/entries/352869/cucumber-house 21:29:00 <Superuser> can 'v' (version) be longer by, ooh... 5 characters? :) 21:30:14 <Superuser> ^ THAT IS A SERIOUS QUESTION BY THE WAY ^ 21:30:25 <frosch123> and i don't understand it 21:31:49 <Superuser> Where does this show up? is it okay to make the string a bit longer 21:32:08 <Superuser> also, STR_TIMETABLE_EXPECTED_TOOLTIP should have the English string corrected 21:32:47 <Superuser> frosch123?? 21:32:53 <frosch123> http://wiki.openttd.org/AI:Need_To_Know#Logging_and_Debug_Panel <- i believe it is the text on the left panel 21:34:23 <Superuser> dang, where might that be 21:34:34 <frosch123> you need to enable the ai developer tools 21:34:37 <Superuser> I don't indulge much in AI debugging... 21:34:49 <Superuser> well, to save time - do YOU think there is enough space? 21:35:13 <frosch123> there is even the ai name, and windows generally resize 21:35:25 <Alberth> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=168432 <-- example, Superuser 21:35:45 <Superuser> egg-celent 21:35:46 <Alberth> ie AIAI(v87) 21:35:53 <andythenorth> peter1138: can't do a cucumber freighter, there is no lighthouse of that name :P 21:35:59 <andythenorth> I could do a cucumber cargo 21:36:06 <andythenorth> then it would be a cucumber freighter 21:36:16 <andythenorth> it could go to a cucumber sandwich factory 21:36:26 <Alberth> make a FARM newgrf :) 21:36:27 <andythenorth> which could be delivered to 'posh houses' 21:36:36 <andythenorth> hmm 21:36:50 <andythenorth> openttd does not sufficiently reflect our modern class-based society 21:38:55 <Kjetil> Also the world is not flat... 21:40:09 <Superuser> openttd has hills :) 21:40:14 <Superuser> and the sea 21:40:31 <Kjetil> the sea at the edge of the world ? :P 21:42:17 <Alberth> otherwise my expensive trains would drive off the world!! 21:44:48 <MNIM> actually 21:45:10 <MNIM> what does OTTD do when you force a train to the end of the world? 21:45:12 * MNIM tests 21:45:36 <V453000> is the !! WTF hidden yet? I can still see it 21:47:07 <frosch123> MNIM: the train is cloned; the real train is send to a train heaven, while a fake one remains in your game 21:47:24 <frosch123> don't let the fake train fool you 21:48:07 <MNIM> awww. it just stops and returns 21:48:09 <MNIM> shame. 21:48:24 <MNIM> it would have been fun to have it as some freaky easter egg disaster or something like that 21:48:50 <frosch123> that happens only on some tiles 21:48:52 <frosch123> try harder 21:53:56 <Kjetil> easter egg disaster like: "You discovered america ?" 22:00:44 <frosch123> there are easter egg vehicles advertising games of which the successor game has already been released 22:28:22 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 22:31:30 <Supercheese> andy, rather than purely axing all the previous FISH ships, perhaps a parameter to enable "extended version"? Or are the new ship stats too conflict-ish? 22:31:39 <Supercheese> all/most/some 22:31:59 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-168-176.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 22:32:18 <LordAro> heyo all 22:32:28 <LordAro> simuscape being annoying again? 22:32:36 <Supercheese> it's never not 22:33:02 <Alberth> hi LordAro 22:33:08 <Alberth> and good night :) 22:33:22 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 22:35:36 <LordAro> lol 22:37:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BCBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:55 <planetmaker> hi LordAro :-) 22:37:56 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:30 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 22:38:37 *** Biolunar_ [mahdi@blfd-4db0e424.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My life for Aiur] 22:39:27 <LordAro> hey planetmaker 22:43:37 <andythenorth> Supercheese: mostly I'm not doing that for the same reason pikka isn't 22:43:50 <andythenorth> it requires work by me :P 22:43:57 <andythenorth> for questionable benefit 22:44:11 <andythenorth> which reduces my ability to release nice newgrfs 22:47:59 <Supercheese> Well, I predict I'll like newfish very much, so it should be good :) 22:50:26 <Wolf01> 'night 22:50:30 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:52:42 <frosch123> LordAro: i explained the feature now in detail on the forums 22:52:47 <frosch123> so, you can give it another try :p 22:56:19 <Supercheese> Ooooh 22:56:24 <Supercheese> Push-pull :D 22:57:49 *** Superuser [~root@host81-129-131-143.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:58:08 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 22:58:25 <frosch123> yeah, the NewGRF made the livestock go totally NUTS and acquire driving licenses 22:58:39 <frosch123> i blame V453000 for that 22:58:47 <Supercheese> :D 22:59:00 <frosch123> V453000: see what happens with livestock if they go at higher speeds 22:59:02 <V453000> wat 22:59:03 <Supercheese> Surely you've heard of cattle driving ;) 22:59:43 <V453000> nothing but I wanted to make their eyes get larger with higher speed 22:59:54 <Terkhen> good night 23:00:13 <andythenorth> hmm 23:00:21 <andythenorth> nah 23:00:28 <andythenorth> some posts are better not written :) 23:01:13 <andythenorth> frosch123: that is a nice looking patch :) 23:01:21 <andythenorth> should I do a train grf? 23:01:25 <frosch123> i did not post any patch? 23:01:31 <frosch123> :p 23:02:24 <andythenorth> there is a png 23:02:32 <andythenorth> I would read code? :P 23:02:38 <andythenorth> nah, pictures are better 23:03:04 <Supercheese> .pngs of code? 23:03:48 <andythenorth> "output" 23:04:02 <andythenorth> I did plan to implement HEQS as trains 23:04:04 <andythenorth> with a new railtype 23:04:25 <andythenorth> 'plan' is a word not to interpret too literally 23:08:52 <Supercheese> "think about briefly" perhaps 23:09:33 <andythenorth> "amuse myself with" 23:09:40 <andythenorth> Squid might get cargo sprites 23:09:59 <andythenorth> if I cab 23:10:02 <andythenorth> cab? 23:10:03 <andythenorth> cba 23:10:18 <NGC3982> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_pCDo2axB4 23:10:29 <andythenorth> is it worth showing cargo in ships if it's only seen whilst loading? 23:10:46 <Supercheese> Freight barges are uncovered 23:10:49 <Supercheese> worth showing cargo there 23:11:07 <Supercheese> Most other cases, not as much 23:22:45 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f7bbe.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:28 *** Superuser [~root@host81-129-131-143.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:27:33 <Superuser> http://translator.openttd.org/en/trunk/el_GR/STR_AI_CONFIG_CHANGE_NONE 23:27:35 <Superuser> I lol'd 23:27:47 <Superuser> isn't this always going to print the 'empty translations' message by the way? 23:29:21 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 23:29:51 <andythenorth> ho ho 23:29:55 <andythenorth> "Fast Ferry" 23:29:59 <andythenorth> "Fast Supply Vessel" 23:30:09 <andythenorth> but "Hovercraft" instead of "Fast Hovercraft" 23:30:14 <andythenorth> words 23:30:21 <Supercheese> methinks "Hovercraft" implies "fast" 23:30:32 <andythenorth> maybe 23:30:34 <andythenorth> anyway, bedtime 23:30:37 <andythenorth> bye 23:30:38 <Supercheese> I'm sure there are slow hovercraft, but less frequent than the fast variety 23:30:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 23:30:58 <peter1138> mmm push-pull 23:31:25 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. please. 23:34:24 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:39:13 <Superuser> STR_TEXTFILE_README_CAPTION 23:39:13 <Superuser> : '{WHITE}{STRING} readme of {STRING}' 23:39:26 <Superuser> are you intentionally trying to make strings untranslatable 23:41:17 <planetmaker> we're intentionally trying to keep the amount of needed strings low. Thus of required repetitive translations 23:42:03 <Superuser> talking of which, where is this actually printed? 23:42:13 <Superuser> it's in a whole series of strings I can't find 23:43:26 <Superuser> Anyone? 23:43:29 <planetmaker> whereever readmes need displaying... 23:43:36 <Zuu> I suspect this one is printed in the window caption of the window that displays the readme of Ais GSs NewGrfs etc. 23:44:40 <Zuu> Whenever I wonder where a string is used and I cannot understand that from the string name, I copy the full STR_.. name and make a global search for that in the entire source code. 23:44:49 <planetmaker> piece of advice, Superuser : your tone makes me hesitant to reply... 23:45:06 <Superuser> That being? 23:45:31 <Superuser> I like to append 'Anyone?' and similar things to my queries so it is made clear that I'm asking questions I expect answered. 23:45:50 <Superuser> That is an unfortunate part of the culture of idling on IRC :( 23:46:34 <Zuu> Allow a bit more than a minute for someone to type an answer. 23:48:43 <planetmaker> are you intentionally trying to make strings untranslatable <-- also sets the entry tone for the conversation. besides the impatience shown in "requesting" answers 23:49:46 <Superuser> Of course. The work has to be done by someone. 23:52:17 <planetmaker> and the default assumption is that it's a pack of evil sadists who just invented the system to annoy you? 23:57:56 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-168-176.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:59:25 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit []