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peer] 04:33:29 *** Biolunar_ [mahdi@blfd-4db1370b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 04:40:50 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db0e424.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:03:30 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 05:11:52 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d114-78-18-160.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:18:18 *** Pikka|gorne [~Octomom@d114-78-18-160.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:30:19 *** Biolunar__ [mahdi@blfd-4db1370b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 05:37:18 *** Biolunar_ [mahdi@blfd-4db1370b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:39:50 <Supercheese> Man I love HEQS 05:39:51 <Supercheese> dem trams 05:43:31 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:43:46 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 06:09:30 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 06:24:18 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:46:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD58F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 06:46:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66E31.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:12:05 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:27:25 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-68-236.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 07:29:38 *** chester_ [~chester@95-27-115-241.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 07:37:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:a981:36fc:1eb0:8527] has joined #openttd 07:38:41 <andythenorth> Pikka bonjour and pineapples 07:42:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:a981:36fc:1eb0:8527] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 07:55:25 <dihedral> good morning 07:56:14 <Supercheese> need zeppelins 07:56:17 <Supercheese> it's only 1907 :S 07:56:42 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 08:06:50 <andythenorth> zellepins are awesome 08:24:36 *** Twofish [~Twofish@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:29:42 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 08:38:28 <Supercheese> zellepins? Kind of like terrapins, but not? 08:38:30 <Supercheese> :P 08:50:31 <Flygon> The best sort of Zepplin is one that goes 250km/h... 08:51:05 <Flygon> Frankly, we could have had those if the Heindenburg didn't accidentally catch fire >_> 08:51:11 <Flygon> That, and WWII 08:51:26 <Supercheese> Nazis ruined everything :< 08:52:09 <Flygon> Technically, the lack of Helium ruine everything 08:52:22 <Flygon> On an even more technical level 08:52:29 <Flygon> WWI ruined everything... 08:52:38 <Supercheese> Why did the Hindenburg not have helium? Because the US had a monopoly and refused to give any to the Nazis because they were Nazis 08:52:44 <Supercheese> Ergo, Nazis ruined everything 08:52:45 <Flygon> Exactly 08:52:49 <Flygon> ... 08:52:53 <Flygon> God dammit Supercheese 08:52:58 <Flygon> Stop being so damn smart 08:53:03 <__ln__> Flygon: Hindenburg didn't burn because of the hydrogen. 08:53:25 <Flygon> __ln__: Didn't it burn due to unfavorable weather conditions? 08:53:31 <Pikka> there's a lot of pineapples about, andythenorth 08:53:39 <Flygon> It's my argument that hydrogen can be perfectly safe, if used properly 08:54:01 <andythenorth> Pikka zellepins are like pineapples 08:54:04 <andythenorth> sideways 08:54:06 <andythenorth> or melons 08:54:08 <andythenorth> or mangos 08:54:19 <Flygon> Melons? 08:54:21 <andythenorth> new industry grf 08:54:23 <andythenorth> fruit 08:54:23 <Flygon> I LOVE WATERMELONS <3 08:54:25 <Pikka> spiky and grow out the top of other zellepins 08:54:29 <Pikka> and smell horrible in the field 08:56:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Factory Runs Until It Toesn't? 08:56:28 *** KouDy [~KouDy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 08:56:59 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i should probably not make jukes this early in the morning :p 08:59:43 <Pikka> planetmaker: now everyone's got it out of their system, move the thread to the spam bin :D 09:01:43 <andythenorth> ho 09:01:49 <andythenorth> I like the auto-delete content idea 09:01:55 <andythenorth> voting is definitely not gameable :) 09:02:10 <Supercheese> "GRF hidden due to low user-rating" 09:02:25 <andythenorth> yeah, writing scripts that hit the voting API is very hard 09:03:03 * andythenorth wishes people would stop being dicks about Simuscape 09:03:05 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 09:03:17 <andythenorth> I suppose me pm-ing squire james to say he's being a dick, that's wrong 09:03:17 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i said it should be HIDDEN (not deleted) BY DEFAULT (i.e. the filter can be deactivated) 09:03:27 <Pikka> people love being dicks about anything, andythenorth 09:03:35 <Pikka> if they don't have something at the moment, they'll find something 09:03:46 <andythenorth> can't they go build castles? 09:05:04 <Pikka> did he reply? 09:05:27 <andythenorth> I didn't do anything 09:05:32 <andythenorth> I'm not mod :P 09:05:36 <andythenorth> for good reasons 09:05:55 <andythenorth> ugh andythenorth as mod 09:05:58 <andythenorth> bad 09:06:08 <Pikka> I think it would be great 09:06:18 <Pikka> better ask orudge 09:07:30 <Supercheese> andythemod O_o 09:10:43 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has left #openttd [] 09:10:46 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 09:13:30 <andythenorth> Pikka: what ratio pax : mail 09:13:42 <andythenorth> got a ferry 100 pax or 25t freight 09:13:49 <andythenorth> 60 mail? 09:15:25 <Pikka> eh 09:16:21 <Pikka> 25 freight as in express, goods and such? seems a little low 09:16:40 <Pikka> I'd have said 100 pax, 80 mail or 50 goods 09:16:47 <andythenorth> could be a point 09:16:52 <andythenorth> I'm cheating for game balance 09:17:04 <andythenorth> the cows don't fit on the ferry seats very well :) 09:17:20 <Pikka> I thought you weren't putting freight in ferries anyway 09:18:07 <andythenorth> express 09:18:08 <andythenorth> maybe farm 09:18:15 <andythenorth> they fill size gaps :P 09:18:23 <andythenorth> expensively, but nobody cares about that 09:21:19 <peter1138> wut 09:21:41 <Supercheese> good night 09:21:55 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.89 [Firefox 18.0.2/20130201065344]] 09:24:42 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:25:57 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1809 09:25:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:1488:e3b5:c897:a81f] has joined #openttd 09:27:01 *** Guest1809 [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:41 *** snorre [~snorre@c4A06BF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:31:03 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 09:31:56 <andythenorth> wut wut 09:32:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:1488:e3b5:c897:a81f] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:41:17 <planetmaker> good morning 09:44:01 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:46:33 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 09:47:10 <Pikka> morning planetmaker 09:55:29 <andythenorth> he has a point 09:55:32 <andythenorth> no Fish in FISH 09:55:40 <andythenorth> no Banananas on Banannanas 09:55:46 <andythenorth> and with that 09:55:51 <andythenorth> beebeeell 09:55:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 09:56:02 <planetmaker> and especially no chips in CHIPS! 09:57:10 <Eddi|zuHause> "A meteorite caused hundreds of injuries in russia" 10:06:25 <Pikka> no CC in 10CC 10:06:32 <Pikka> wait, yes there is. 10:07:07 <Twofish> Eddi|zuHause: http://youtu.be/bXifSi2K278?t=4m18s 10:07:21 <Twofish> Crazy that it makes those shadows... 10:08:48 <planetmaker> that's no shadow, Twofish. That's a camera set on auto-gain 10:09:27 <planetmaker> brightness adjustment always has a lag wrt the actual images 10:09:33 <Twofish> look at the lightpole shadows 10:10:02 <planetmaker> yes, it casts a bright light. But I referred to the overall brightness flickering 10:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a story about an american military plane that had a "thunderstorm" button 10:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it could not deploy thunderstorms as a weapon 10:11:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it disabled the automatic brightness adaption in the cockpit, because in a thunderstorm with quick brightness changes, it was useless and further distracting 10:11:49 <Twofish> :) 10:12:52 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 10:13:44 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:13:47 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: :o 10:16:36 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:19:19 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0c0889.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 10:22:46 <andythenorth> Pikka: I might make a grf that just tells jokes 10:22:52 <andythenorth> know any good jokes? 10:23:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: should be a gamescript. 10:23:22 <andythenorth> point 10:23:47 <andythenorth> I might make !!Kittens.grf 10:23:56 <andythenorth> it just links to kitten picture of the day 10:24:35 <Pikka> good idea 10:24:57 <andythenorth> I should do work 10:25:06 <andythenorth> and stop arsing about 10:25:22 <andythenorth> oh, Australia has been buying things from me 10:25:24 <andythenorth> that's lovely 10:25:42 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:30:57 <Eddi|zuHause> work is overrated 10:31:32 <peter1138> oh kamnet you 10:31:58 <andythenorth> I could hug him 10:32:04 <andythenorth> he's so lovely 10:41:45 <andythenorth> so 100 pax, 80 mail 10:41:50 <andythenorth> mailbags can go on seats 10:42:17 <andythenorth> what sizes mail ship are needed 10:42:37 <andythenorth> currently the step would be 24 -> 80 -> lots 10:42:50 <peter1138> but 10:42:56 <peter1138> should i put another pot of coffee on? 10:44:14 <planetmaker> of course. Coffee is never wrong 10:44:20 * planetmaker makes tea now, though 10:45:08 <Pikka> what's lots? 10:45:13 <Pikka> 300? 500? 2000? 10:45:23 <Pikka> 20000? 10:45:36 <peter1138> i don't think i could handle that much coffee 10:47:25 <andythenorth> just have small ones 10:47:34 <andythenorth> Pikka: you want a 20000 mailbag ship? 10:47:39 <andythenorth> are you insane? o_O 10:47:42 <Pikka> no 10:47:51 <Pikka> I'm just asking what size you mean by "lots" :) 10:48:04 <andythenorth> herp 10:48:12 <andythenorth> well lots of ships can carry mail 10:48:17 <andythenorth> so > 80 10:48:23 <planetmaker> 24, 80, 300, 1500 10:48:25 <andythenorth> maybe up to about 1200 bags 10:48:52 <andythenorth> mostly you only care at the small end 10:48:52 <Pikka> 24 -> 80 -> morethan80 sounds like a decent scale to me :) 10:49:03 <Pikka> definitely don't need any more between 24 and 80, or less than 24. 10:49:08 <andythenorth> optimising matters for small towns and routes that don't make much money 10:49:14 <andythenorth> optimising is blah for big routes 10:50:46 <andythenorth> wonder if I could patch multiple ship holds 10:51:56 <oskari892> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYl4gXL4tIM#! More from that meteorite 10:56:13 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-68-236.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:57:01 <Pikka> articulated ships, andy 10:59:18 <peter1138> ship shadows 11:03:07 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03:19 *** Pixa [~pixa@85.210.76.243] has joined #openttd 11:04:29 <andythenorth> shadow ships 11:13:38 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:14:05 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0c0889.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:26:56 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0c0889.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 11:38:45 *** MinchinWeb [~6034fac3@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:39:21 <peter1138> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gUsiR8ZwME&feature=player_embedded 11:41:23 <Pikka> if this happened in america, all the videos would be full of people screaming "OH MAA GAAAAAWDDDDDDDD" 11:41:36 <Pikka> russians just say "eh, meteorite" 11:44:48 <peter1138> heh 11:44:49 <peter1138> yeah 11:44:56 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a comment like "this is fake, there are thousands of videos on youtube where cars or jets crash into houses" 11:45:24 <peter1138> what is "content"? 11:45:26 <peter1138> nobody knows 11:45:39 <peter1138> but is "content" different from content? 11:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> same way as "realism" is different from realism? 11:46:32 <peter1138> are "waypoints" different from waypoints? 11:46:56 <peter1138> is ' different from ` ? 11:47:14 <peter1138> (not for some germans :D) 11:49:30 <planetmaker> try to use it synonymous in bash, peter1138 ;-) 11:51:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 11:51:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by matthijs :: r25002 trunk/src/video/sdl_v.cpp (2013-02-15 11:01:43 UTC) 11:51:47 <DorpsGek> -Doc: [SDL] Fix typo in comment. 11:51:52 <DorpsGek> Commit by matthijs :: r25003 trunk/src/video/sdl_v.cpp (2013-02-15 11:01:45 UTC) 11:51:53 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r24993): [SDL] Keep a flag to remember if a hardware palette was requested. 11:51:54 <DorpsGek> - Previously, the code would query the SDL_HWPALETTE flag, which doesn't always match the requested value. 11:51:55 <DorpsGek> - This would cause SDL to be restarted on every window resize event, effectively breaking resizing. 11:52:18 <peter1138> \o/ 11:52:49 <Eddi|zuHause> so that's what the black borders after resizing were about? 11:53:12 <peter1138> what black borders? :p 11:55:43 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 12:18:56 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@brln-4d0c0889.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:22 <Pikka> jonty-comp: better than locking it, move it to the spam bin and then if anyone asks what happened to it, deny it ever existed. :) 12:20:57 <peter1138> blah blah blah 12:21:38 <jonty-comp> Pikka: tempting 12:22:56 * jonty-comp hasn't locked a topic in years 12:24:47 <Pikka> nice job 12:25:02 * Pikka bed, early start tomorrow 12:25:12 * jonty-comp only just got up 12:25:17 <jonty-comp> you crazy upside-downs 12:25:20 <Pikka> yep 12:26:18 <Pikka> although, often, my personal timekeeping and the diurnal cycle only coincidentally coincide. :) 12:26:25 <Pikka> goodnight 12:26:27 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d114-78-18-160.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:26:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 12:26:57 <Eddi|zuHause> people should use the 28 hour day more often :p 12:29:35 <andythenorth> would be useful with babies 12:29:43 <andythenorth> more time to have a life 12:31:36 <andythenorth> or argue on the internet 12:31:39 <andythenorth> or make newgrfs 12:32:05 <peter1138> now i can't read people winding each other up :( 12:32:24 <andythenorth> may I recommend the BBC Have Your Say section? 12:32:27 <andythenorth> or YT comments? 12:32:32 <peter1138> nope 12:32:34 <andythenorth> ok 12:32:36 <andythenorth> I won't 12:32:43 <andythenorth> ever thought of doing shadow-ships? 12:32:45 <andythenorth> I could help :P 12:32:49 <peter1138> doesn't count if it's something random :p 12:32:53 <peter1138> shadow ships 12:32:58 <peter1138> no, i've not 12:33:02 <peter1138> wake-ships 12:33:26 <andythenorth> that too 12:34:33 <andythenorth> can we keep cargo in smoke? 12:34:37 <andythenorth> it might...disappear 12:34:40 <andythenorth> 'spoilage' 12:35:02 <andythenorth> I suppose making ships carry fuel would be really really tedious? 12:35:08 <andythenorth> ship range :P 12:35:20 <andythenorth> ship range would smell 12:35:52 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 12:37:46 <jonty-comp> i'm bored now 12:37:50 <jonty-comp> i might unlock it again 12:37:58 <andythenorth> nah 12:38:00 <andythenorth> you did right 12:38:11 <andythenorth> can you retitle it blah blah blah please 12:38:15 <jonty-comp> but now i have to do actual work :( 12:38:21 <andythenorth> me too 12:38:26 <andythenorth> unlock it later :P 12:38:28 <peter1138> argue with mb instead 12:38:41 <jonty-comp> no, that's like trying to argue with a brick wall 12:38:42 <andythenorth> I like MB :) 12:38:53 <andythenorth> Michael doesn't usually produce walls of text 12:38:58 <andythenorth> walls of text are a bad sign 12:39:03 <peter1138> looks like arguing with kamnet is like a brick wall 12:39:19 <jonty-comp> he is just a brick wall regardless of arguments 12:39:21 <peter1138> gotta love his way of dismissing arguments 12:39:55 <jonty-comp> he follows the dave worley practice of winning arguments - ignore the bits that you can't answer + overwhelming self-confidence :P 12:40:04 <jonty-comp> anyway, at least this work i am doing is fun audio mastering 12:40:10 <V453000> The most significant byte (RR) is reserved and must be and-masked out. what does this mean? 12:40:14 <andythenorth> can I have my own argument with squire james? 12:40:19 <V453000> http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Railtypes signals 12:40:45 <peter1138> it's means it's not currently used 12:40:52 <andythenorth> so don't try and read it 12:40:53 <V453000> I simply didnt include the 0xRR and it seems to have compiled 12:40:55 <andythenorth> might get used in future 12:40:59 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip1.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 12:41:03 <andythenorth> it will compile either way 12:41:10 <andythenorth> but your grf might suddenly break one day 12:41:25 <andythenorth> if that byte is used 12:41:30 <peter1138> some authors have a habit of assuming all reversed bits will always be zero 12:41:34 <V453000> well it shouted syntax error with 0xRR 12:42:20 <peter1138> well that's not a hex value 12:42:25 <peter1138> *reserved bits 12:44:50 <V453000> hm apparently it doesnt quite work 12:45:15 <V453000> if it is "TT" does it mean I should use 01 instead of 1, right? 12:45:38 <peter1138> you have to mask the bits you want 12:45:54 <peter1138> surprising for nml to be honest 12:46:00 <V453000> how do I do that? 12:46:03 <peter1138> & 12:46:11 <jonty-comp> and lo, the first track i master today is someone doing a smooth jazz cover of the pokémon theme 12:46:35 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:46:43 <peter1138> ((extra_callback_info2 >> 16) & 0xFF) will give you TT as values from 0-255 12:46:54 <peter1138> assuming nml supports that syntax 12:46:54 <V453000> uhm so like &1&0&0? 12:47:05 <V453000> o_O 12:48:18 <V453000> hm unexpected token { 12:48:20 <V453000> not good :D 12:50:36 <planetmaker> V453000, value = variable & 0x00FFFFFF 12:50:43 <planetmaker> if the variable is 4 byte long 12:51:01 <planetmaker> then continue to use value in your analysis of the result which is of actual interest 12:51:11 <planetmaker> or in a switch statement like 12:51:51 <planetmaker> switch (FEAT_RAILTYPE, SELF, blablaswitch, variable & 0x00FFFFFF) { 0: thisswitch; 1: anotherswitch; } 12:52:00 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 12:52:34 <V453000> so I inspect TT, SS, or whatever one at a time? 12:54:10 <planetmaker> right... you likely only want to inspect one of 0xRRTTVVSS at a time: 12:54:41 <planetmaker> ((extra_callback_info2 & 0x00FF0000) >> 16) for TT 12:54:53 <V453000> o 12:54:58 <planetmaker> ((extra_callback_info2 & 0x0000FF00) >> 8) for VV 12:55:10 <planetmaker> (extra_callback_info2 & 0x000000FF) for SS 12:55:44 <planetmaker> bit magic :D 12:56:02 <V453000> I understand it now :) hopefully 12:56:07 <V453000> lets see what it does 12:58:12 <planetmaker> actually... you should rather do ((extra_callback_info2 & 0x00000100) >> 8) for VV - the other bits there are also reserved ;-) 12:58:24 <planetmaker> though... only values. not bits 12:58:52 <planetmaker> thus do something useful error-wise if the value is not 0 or 1 for VV :-) 12:59:17 <planetmaker> I'd just ignore that, though :D 12:59:39 <V453000> I am starting to hate computers 12:59:39 <V453000> :D 13:01:31 <peter1138> planetmaker, does it need to be the opposite way around to what i said then? 13:02:08 <planetmaker> peter1138, your way is equally fine. I didn't read back fully. sorry 13:07:13 <V453000> I tried thiz http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2117/ 13:07:37 <V453000> only the basic block signal seems to show :s 13:07:49 <planetmaker> fuck... bad gateway :S 13:07:54 <V453000> wa :D 13:08:33 <planetmaker> solved... the old cookie problem 13:08:41 <peter1138> you haven't shifted 13:08:56 <planetmaker> ^ 13:08:56 <peter1138> & 0x000000FF is unnecessary 13:08:59 <peter1138> just & 0xFF 13:09:30 <planetmaker> but using 0x000000FF is - from my POV - nicer when you know that you deal with 4 bytes 13:10:03 <planetmaker> (extra_callback_info2 >> 16) & 0x00FF0000 13:10:10 <planetmaker> wrong 13:10:33 <planetmaker> (extra_callback_info2 >> 16) & 0x000000FF or (extra_callback_info2 & 0x00FF0000) >> 16 13:12:02 <peter1138> GB(extra_callback_info2, 16, 8) ;) 13:12:28 <peter1138> any idea why this isn't nmlised anyway? 13:13:50 <V453000> (extra_callback_info2 >> 16) & 0x000000FF is for the last two, right? SS 13:13:53 <planetmaker> callbacks are difficult to NML-ize. It might need special variable names for that. like cb_XXX where XXX is the actual thing which we just typed here 13:14:14 <planetmaker> that's not for the last two. for 0x00XX0000 13:14:16 <planetmaker> the XX part 13:14:19 *** kais58_ is now known as kais58|AFK 13:14:33 <V453000> ._.can I ask why is it at the end then ? :D 13:14:44 <planetmaker> the >>16 shifts the variable 16 bits to the right 13:14:54 <V453000> oh 13:15:00 <planetmaker> and only then the bitmask is applied. At a time where the XX is already at the end 13:16:12 <V453000> so TT is >> 8? 13:16:57 <planetmaker> no. TT = (extra_callback_info2 & 0x00FF0000) >> 16 13:19:27 <V453000> its baking :) 13:20:05 <peter1138> in ottd shift is applied before mask, so i'd do it that way 13:20:21 <peter1138> dunno what magic stuff nml does :p 13:23:20 <V453000> LOL and I mixed it all up together :DD 13:23:21 <V453000> jeez :D 13:23:38 <V453000> but progress 13:25:11 <V453000> right ... only strange thing is that I have all signals red instead of green 13:26:46 <V453000> the wiki says 0 is red, is that surely correct? 13:28:41 <peter1138> show your code 13:29:10 <V453000> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2119/ 13:29:18 <V453000> im sure that spritesets which say green are green 13:29:36 <peter1138> you've shifted EVERYTHING 16 bits 13:29:36 <peter1138> lol 13:29:52 <V453000> ? :D 13:29:55 <peter1138> only TT needs to be shifted 16 bits 13:29:58 <V453000> either way the signals are perma red :) 13:29:59 <peter1138> VV needs to be shifted 8 bits 13:30:04 <peter1138> and SS doesn't need to be shifted 13:30:10 <V453000> thats waht I thought :D ok 13:30:35 <V453000> but the 0x00FFbla things stay as I have them now, right? 13:30:44 <peter1138> yes 13:31:40 *** zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:32:22 *** zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 13:33:11 <V453000> I think it works now 13:33:13 <V453000> thanks :) 13:33:36 <V453000> I cant say I know what I coded, but it works :D all that matters for me 13:33:58 <V453000> now to get offsets sorted out and draw proper signals :) 13:33:59 *** kormer [~kormer@c-68-55-166-242.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 13:34:06 <andythenorth> V453000: that's how my code works too :P 13:34:26 <V453000> I mean at least in the end when I have it done I usually understand it 13:34:30 <V453000> not this time :D 13:34:58 <V453000> all I know that an evil 0x00000000000000 caterpillar can be mutated by evil >> bla 13:35:02 <V453000> or what 13:38:49 <Eddi|zuHause> .... or what 13:40:16 <V453000> :) 13:41:01 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:42:51 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:49:04 <andythenorth> what I wonder 13:49:05 <andythenorth> is 13:49:13 <andythenorth> have the "something must be done" guys 13:49:18 <andythenorth> read the ToS? o_O 13:51:50 <andythenorth> also I wonder 13:51:53 <andythenorth> is it lunch time? 13:52:09 <jonty-comp> a much more important question 13:53:30 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 13:59:16 <Eddi|zuHause> well, did somebody have a link to the ToS? 14:04:29 <planetmaker> http://bananas.openttd.org/en/manager/tos/ 14:04:40 *** FireFly [~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com] has left #openttd [WeeChat 0.3.9.2] 14:04:46 <V453000> TOO LONG 14:04:49 <V453000> :) 14:05:35 *** Elukka [Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:05:39 *** ak131554 [95dc230d@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:08:22 *** ak131554 [95dc230d@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [] 14:22:41 <andythenorth> there's nothing in ToS that confers any rights on uploader 14:22:46 <andythenorth> so admins can delete wtf they want 14:22:50 <andythenorth> which was already known 14:23:23 *** Looser [95dc230d@ircip3.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 14:23:51 <Looser> Hi. Who do I have to ask to get a permission for lets play videos? 14:24:08 <andythenorth> ho hall of fame thread has gone bad too 14:24:14 <andythenorth> jonty-comp: you are doing a nice job :) 14:24:23 *** lobster [~lobster@glosoli.owenrudge.net] has left #openttd [BOMG LIEK] 14:25:16 * andythenorth is having fish 14:25:17 <andythenorth> and chips 14:25:24 <andythenorth> bbeeeeebl 14:25:50 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-68-175-24-89.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 14:27:15 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: so, what has the GRF-ID thing have to do with anything? 14:27:54 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@212.36.5.170] has joined #openttd 14:28:16 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@212.36.5.170] has quit [] 14:29:18 <Looser> Noone here who can answer my question? 14:29:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Looser: why do you think you need permission for anything? 14:30:35 <V453000> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avYBuijHPBI FAK :D 14:31:35 <Looser> Eddi|zuHause: Copyright?! 14:31:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Looser: in which country? 14:32:07 <Looser> in any country 14:32:18 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a different copyright in every country 14:33:07 <Looser> youtube has ONE rule for intelectual property. 14:33:41 <Eddi|zuHause> one rule to intellect them all! 14:34:32 <Looser> Eddi|zuHause: Open source does not mean that everyone has the right to use it without conditions. 14:35:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that is true, but the conditions you can read in the license... 14:35:56 <Eddi|zuHause> plus, copyright has options of "fair use" and similar, where you can do things which are not covered by the license 14:36:12 <Eddi|zuHause> but these rules differ in every country 14:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> hence why i ask 14:36:40 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, one of the points these iGRF break is to spam also the ingame lists with double (or in BKTunnels case) even tripple entries. Using always the same grfID prevents that 14:36:55 <planetmaker> just assuming we allow such advertisement / spam NewGRFs on bananas 14:37:56 <planetmaker> Looser, no single person owns the copyright on OpenTTD, its base sets nor its extensions like ai, game scripts, newgrfs or similar 14:38:13 <planetmaker> so no single person could grant you permission other than "read the license and obey it" 14:38:17 <planetmaker> or rather "licenses" 14:38:39 <planetmaker> Most notably the sound set is NOT GPL-licensed. Nor can you generally expect that of NewGRFs 14:39:28 <planetmaker> that said, I personally see no breach in anyone's right, if you make a movie which shows you or others playing OpenTTD 14:39:32 <planetmaker> but IANAL 14:41:17 <kormer> I anal too. 14:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> tmi 14:45:07 <jonty-comp> andythenorth: why thanks 14:45:15 *** Looser [95dc230d@ircip3.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 14:45:15 <jonty-comp> i post because i have nothing better to do this week :P 14:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but i think you're arguing a small detail when a much bigger picture is being discussed 14:50:27 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 14:52:36 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:57:28 <planetmaker> that is true, Eddi|zuHause. I'm aware of that :-) 14:57:47 *** Twofish [~Twofish@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:01:01 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@212.36.5.170] has joined #openttd 15:02:18 <Terkhen> hello 15:12:15 <planetmaker> hi Terkhen 15:16:33 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:16:35 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58_ 15:17:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B278.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:21:56 *** goodger [~ben@host86-166-165-94.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: goodger] 15:24:09 *** goodger [~ben@host86-166-165-94.range86-166.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:45:07 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:19:32 <Eddi|zuHause> "An 'Apple Shop' in Norfolk (England) has announced it is changing its name, because increasingly more people demand devices instead of fruits" 16:23:23 <andythenorth> the same will happen to banana shops one day 16:23:27 <andythenorth> people will go in and ask for newgrfs 16:23:37 <jonty-comp> hahah 16:23:54 <V453000> :D 16:23:58 <planetmaker> :-) 16:24:20 <planetmaker> I wonder what will happen to nogo areas? do people expect game scripts there? :-) 16:25:04 <andythenorth> probly 16:25:59 <andythenorth> hmm 16:26:10 <andythenorth> so 16:26:53 <andythenorth> for threads where some stupid slagging of simuscape happens, would tt-forums mods consider simply moving it to off-topic? 16:26:59 <andythenorth> as it's not helpful 16:27:01 <andythenorth> and tbh 16:27:11 <andythenorth> it reveals a side of people in the community that I don't like at al 16:27:22 <andythenorth> and makes me 50% tempted to go to simuscape 16:30:04 <Eddi|zuHause> YOU HERETIC! GET OUT OF HERE! 16:30:29 <andythenorth> yeah that 16:30:59 <V453000> well, what is tt-forums or simuscape for anyway ... just a forum 16:31:16 <V453000> im on both but involved in neither 16:31:26 <V453000> writing shit here and there 16:31:31 <Eddi|zuHause> you must at the same time leave the devzone, remove all stuff from bananas, and change the licenses to proprietary 16:31:38 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: for why? 16:31:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and while at it, include DRM that rootkits everybodys computer 16:32:01 <andythenorth> oh yeah that 16:32:03 <andythenorth> I'll need that 16:32:29 <Eddi|zuHause> just because you must assume that they use stuff that you don't want them to use 16:33:34 <andythenorth> or because I want to sell you to spammers 16:33:45 <V453000> uhmmm isnt simuscape just another forum? 16:33:48 <andythenorth> but anyway 16:33:58 <SpComb> V453000: community, big difference 16:34:02 <V453000> stupidly closed out, but still 16:34:16 <andythenorth> V453000: so when I say 'go to', I mean move the dev / release threads for my grfs 16:34:37 <V453000> how productive are those threads anyway 16:34:49 <andythenorth> somewhat 16:34:54 <andythenorth> I don't mean 'flounce off in a big huff, and throw away my login and remove all my posts and images' 16:35:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: to do that, you must change the content of all your posts on the forum by "..." 16:35:33 <V453000> idk why does anyone remove that 16:35:53 <V453000> looks like massive overreaction and attention whoring to me 16:35:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know that either, but apparently it still happened 16:36:00 <V453000> yeah 16:36:02 <jonty-comp> i think it would be better to spam-bin any such posts, rather than move them to off-topic :p 16:36:07 <andythenorth> well that too 16:36:10 <andythenorth> one or the other 16:36:13 <jonty-comp> bin them and also give the perpetrators a good slap 16:36:21 <V453000> I have to admit that simuscape seems relatively productive in what they do, in how they solve issues and help each other 16:36:28 <andythenorth> they are a nice place 16:36:33 <andythenorth> full of people who just want to be nice 16:36:49 <jonty-comp> everyone is nice in a different way 16:36:51 <planetmaker> sounds awesome. I wonder why it doesn't show 16:37:01 <andythenorth> it's perplexing that some paranoid fuckheads in tt-forums think that 'simuscape people are out to sabotage everything' 16:37:02 <jonty-comp> and it seems the tt-f way of nice doesn't agree with the simuscape way of nice 16:37:32 <peter1138> andythenorth, i don't think they do 16:37:51 <V453000> planetmaker: perhaps because their content is idiotically unacessible? :D 16:37:54 <peter1138> andythenorth, it seems to be simupeople think that ttpeople think that simupeople... etc etc 16:38:00 <andythenorth> maybe I am too paranoid 16:38:02 <andythenorth> and a fuckhead 16:38:22 <andythenorth> both are possible 16:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i said pretty much that, but then the post magically disappeared from the thread 16:38:39 <peter1138> heh 16:38:41 <andythenorth> this for example http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1066327#p1066327 16:38:53 <jonty-comp> if this is like the cold war, which forum can be america and which can be the soviet union? :D 16:39:30 <Eddi|zuHause> jonty-comp: maybe it's iran and israel instead? 16:39:36 <planetmaker> andythenorth, you moan a lot. And do a lot to keep the fire burning. In every single such thread 16:39:40 <jonty-comp> perhaps 16:39:47 <jonty-comp> i'm not up on my middle-eastern politics as much though 16:41:02 <andythenorth> maybe it's just simuscape and tt-forums 16:41:04 <Eddi|zuHause> jonty-comp: well basically iran is like "we want to be the major force in the region" and israel is like "everybody out there is evil and wants to get us" 16:41:52 <jonty-comp> i see 16:41:53 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, a number of postings from that thread was just moved to the spam bin... it started to get personal 16:42:07 <planetmaker> in an ugly fashion 16:42:55 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@mobile-198-228-234-004.mycingular.net] has joined #openttd 16:43:21 *** kais58_ is now known as kais58 16:43:32 <jonty-comp> at least it seems to be doing more productive things now 16:50:04 <andythenorth> hmm 16:50:16 <andythenorth> some interesting simuscape projects 17:02:52 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:05:02 *** Bad_Brett [~bad@78-69-118-27-no42.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 17:07:03 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@31.103.212.23] has joined #openttd 17:08:56 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat-ulcn.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:03 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5e0097ae.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:13:44 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1846 17:13:44 *** Guest1846 [~Andy@31.103.212.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:14:03 *** mrdaft [~mrdaft@mobile-198-228-234-004.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: left.] 17:15:06 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@31.103.212.23] has joined #openttd 17:15:56 *** kais58 is now known as kais58|AFK 17:41:23 <peter1138> who knows 17:41:56 <andythenorth> I DO! 17:48:19 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@s55978e11.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 17:52:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't 17:53:23 <Eddi|zuHause> btw: how long until the court of human rights rules that CAPTCHAs are discriminating? 18:06:46 *** lolek1 [~lolek@78.133.210.26] has joined #openttd 18:06:48 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 18:06:51 <lolek1> hello all 18:07:04 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18E85.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:08:31 <lolek1> i've got a question i'm trying to play a little with openttd, i've got version: 1.1.4 (ubuntu repo), i've some trains vehicles, and now i need to replace old vehicles. The vehicles are in groups the groups contains only buses, the problem is after i open replace vehicle list the right list is.. empty ... any idea what's wrong ? 18:10:28 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: discriminating on which of the many possible bases? 18:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> "computers are human, too" 18:11:12 <V453000> that it is fucking annoying and 80% of the time I get letters wrong 18:11:22 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:12:17 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i just find it fucking annoying that i solved like 5 of their CAPTCHAs, but never actually signed up there... 18:15:38 <peter1138> hmm? 18:15:56 <Pinkbeast> lolek: Are you trying to replace vehicles because they are old and worn-out, or with vehicles of a different type? 18:15:57 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:16:16 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: people coming to other forums and asking "i can't solve this captcha, please help" 18:16:23 <peter1138> oh 18:24:31 *** oftcrash [~KrisKnowl@pool-96-233-137-78.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 18:24:42 <lolek1> Pinkbeast: well i need to replace cause they'r old 18:25:45 <oftcrash> good afternoon/morning/evening... I'm on my first bananas upload - I'm tarring up the files, but should I not gzip them as well? 18:26:09 <Pinkbeast> Right, but are you trying to change the types at the same time? If not, autorenew will take care of it. 18:26:13 <planetmaker> hello oftcrash 18:26:14 <oftcrash> and it really has content in it :) 18:26:29 <planetmaker> oftcrash, you can zip it. But it's not required 18:26:35 <Pinkbeast> If so, a screenshot of the interface where you are having the problem would be informative. 18:26:37 <lolek1> Pinkbeast: well no, i don't want to change type 18:26:40 <planetmaker> you can also just zip it w/o using tar 18:26:47 <lolek1> Pinkbeast: hmm ok, give me a minute 18:26:55 <Pinkbeast> In that case just check autorenew is switched on and it will happen automagically. 18:27:41 <lolek1> well i've read about autorenew but i'd like to do i t by hand for the first time 18:27:42 <oftcrash> I have the license and readme with it, so I need to package it. I don't mind tarring, just wondering if it should be gzipped. I tried it that way out of habit, but it didn't show in my grf list 18:27:51 <lolek1> ok i did a screenshot but where it is located? 18:28:09 <Pinkbeast> lolek: Since you have not said which OS you are on, am I right in assuming you use Windows? 18:28:39 <lolek1> oh sorry 18:28:42 <lolek1> no ubuntu 18:28:52 <Pinkbeast> Huh, I thought only Windows users did that. 18:28:58 <lolek1> lol 18:28:59 <lolek1> :D 18:29:17 <lolek1> well i'm the exception that acknowledge the rule ;) 18:29:23 <Pinkbeast> Probably ~/.openttd 18:29:27 <lolek1> k, sec. 18:30:30 <planetmaker> oftcrash, bananas will anyway unpackage it and re-package it. So, it's just a matter of upload speed 18:30:44 <lolek1> here: http://img.nopaste.pl/showpict.php?id=Hutfield%20Transport,%2025th%20Oct%201964_511e730d9128c.png 18:30:46 <planetmaker> And frankly, uploads to bananas don't contribute significantly to *our* bandwidth 18:31:05 <oftcrash> ah ok - its town names, so its very small 18:31:25 <Pinkbeast> lolek: Ah. This is very early in the game - is there actually any other available bus type? 18:31:25 <lolek1> Pinkbeast: the right pane of replace read vehicle window is empty 18:31:37 <lolek1> well no, there isn't 18:31:39 <Pinkbeast> Wait, it's 1964, hm... 18:31:48 <planetmaker> might be different, if everyone created something like zBase :-) 18:32:01 <Pinkbeast> OK; you'd expect that if there is only one road vehicle type that carries passengers. 18:32:19 <Pinkbeast> Since the autoreplace window is intended for changing types. 18:32:27 <lolek1> ah 18:32:43 <lolek1> so i don't have the posibility to change it by group ? 18:32:54 <lolek1> only autorenew option or manually ? 18:33:01 <Pinkbeast> You could change it by group, yes - but only when there's something to change it _to_. 18:33:15 <lolek1> :/ 18:33:48 <Pinkbeast> If you want to replace all the vehicles in a group and they all have the same orders, I would order them all to depot, Ctrl-click-clone a set of new ones, and sell the old ones. 18:33:59 <lolek1> well they're not 18:34:01 <lolek1> :/ 18:34:18 <lolek1> ok, i've turned on the autorenew option 18:34:24 <Pinkbeast> So you want to replace your oldest busses with busses of the same type but they are not yet due for autorenew? 18:34:39 <lolek1> well i've got autorenew disabled 18:34:56 <lolek1> so i wanted to do it by hand but not one by one, but just groups 18:35:19 <lolek1> i thought the replace road vehicle was made for that but i see now it's only for upgrade 18:35:31 <lolek1> it would be great if the replace road vehicle would allow that 18:35:33 <Pinkbeast> You can control when autorenew kicks in, but beyond that this isn't really a thing you can do. 18:36:30 <lolek1> k 18:36:43 <Pinkbeast> I infer you're using default vehicles from the A4 pulling five coal wagons in the background. Poor Gresley's spinning in his grave. :-) 18:36:50 *** aditsu [~aditsu@183178080020.ctinets.com] has joined #openttd 18:37:46 <aditsu> hi, can I play a multiplayer game through a proxy or tunnel? 18:39:29 <planetmaker> you'll need to proxy and tunnel the proper ports... 18:39:33 <planetmaker> @ports 18:39:33 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound) 18:41:47 *** glx [glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:41:50 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:42:33 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: paying :) 18:42:49 <Eddi|zuHause> in other topics: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCIkbr9HCcw 18:43:23 <planetmaker> well stated 18:43:29 <andythenorth> pretty awesome 18:45:33 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 18:46:00 <andythenorth> hmm 18:46:03 <andythenorth> uploader pays 18:46:08 <andythenorth> downloader pays 18:46:21 <andythenorth> if download income > upload cost 18:46:21 <andythenorth> win 18:46:30 <andythenorth> if download income < upload cost 18:46:31 <andythenorth> fail 18:47:05 <andythenorth> http://quotationsbook.com/quote/45209/ 18:49:30 <planetmaker> andythenorth, sounds like the business model of Elsevier 18:50:32 <planetmaker> 30% earnings on turn-over amount 18:51:09 <andythenorth> the only puzzle is how to set the price 18:52:33 <planetmaker> starting at 30e for single download. If you make an abo, you can get away with 300⬠yearly. sounds fair? Upload 500⬠18:53:12 <andythenorth> would I pay 500⬠per grf? 18:53:15 <andythenorth> probly not :P 18:53:28 <planetmaker> :D 18:53:47 <andythenorth> still 18:53:59 <andythenorth> how much would you charge downloaders? 18:54:15 <planetmaker> 30ct 18:54:20 <andythenorth> hmm 18:54:33 <andythenorth> assume an optimistic 1% conversion rate 18:54:40 <andythenorth> 223k FIRS downloads 18:54:59 <andythenorth> @calc 223*0.01 18:54:59 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 2.23 18:55:08 <planetmaker> andythenorth, does the 30ct include updates? 18:55:13 <andythenorth> dunno 18:55:14 <andythenorth> probly not 18:55:18 <andythenorth> @calc 2230 * .30 18:55:18 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 669 18:55:28 <andythenorth> ok, I'm in profit on 500⬠18:55:33 <andythenorth> I / me / us / you 18:55:34 <planetmaker> then it spoils the release early, release often thing :-) 18:55:42 <planetmaker> or actually vice versa. depends 18:55:55 <andythenorth> I think 1% is optimistic though 18:56:13 <andythenorth> probably 0.1% might be more realistic 18:56:20 <andythenorth> free vs. paid 18:57:05 <andythenorth> so would you pay 30ct for an advertising grf? 18:57:31 <planetmaker> lol 18:58:45 <andythenorth> you might 18:58:48 <Eddi|zuHause> how many people are paying for the "HDplus" astra package? (the HD channels of advertisment-funded TV programs that are "free" in the SD-version) 18:58:57 <andythenorth> it bugs me that I pay for sky 18:59:09 <andythenorth> but Nickolodeon still shows ads every 10-15mins 18:59:15 <andythenorth> which my toddler hates 18:59:20 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-245-068.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 18:59:30 <andythenorth> but I digress, and I am a grumpy old man 18:59:42 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, grampa 18:59:47 <oftcrash> Hmm, you gave me an idea. A town name grf where all the names are sponsored. "Bob's Bar & Grill West" "St. Coca-Cola" Is that advertising? 18:59:59 <andythenorth> I want to make a grf that shows actual real adverts 19:00:11 <andythenorth> "get FIRS' 19:00:21 <andythenorth> 'buy Sony' 19:00:22 <andythenorth> etc 19:00:47 <oftcrash> Ikea in every town... 19:01:04 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: a fully functional FIRS version with all industry graphics replaced with "pay me 50¢ to remove these ads and get real graphics" 19:01:43 <Eddi|zuHause> oftcrash: SAC has an ikea grf :) 19:01:46 <Pinkbeast> "This is the age of the Pikka train." 19:02:00 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I like your idea 19:02:07 <andythenorth> 'click here to play' 19:02:31 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:02:31 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1854 19:02:31 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 19:03:01 <andythenorth> paypal | visa | mastercard 19:03:20 <Pinkbeast> Nah, you want to nickel-and-dime people with micropayments. "This industry will increase production in three months. Click here to pay 25 tokens to increase it immediately." 19:04:30 <andythenorth> ok 19:04:33 <andythenorth> let's do that 19:04:42 <oftcrash> Eddi: yeah, I pretty much only play with Swedish Towns now - it cracks me up. 19:05:01 <andythenorth> vvk 19:05:07 *** andythenorth [~Andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 19:05:14 <Pinkbeast> "Livestockfarmville" 19:06:20 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d008d77.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 19:09:02 <planetmaker> quak :-) 19:10:08 *** Guest1854 [~Andy@31.103.212.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause> you are not fjb :) 19:10:55 <oftcrash> I feel so accomplished - my first newgrf published to bananas :) 19:12:23 <jonty-comp> does it contain graphics? 19:12:32 <oftcrash> no, I'm not particularly arty 19:12:39 <oftcrash> its martian town names 19:12:55 <oftcrash> I wanted better names while I work on martian industry 19:13:24 <oftcrash> should I bother with a release thread in the forum for the town names? 19:13:45 <planetmaker> that's your choice. It definitely is not needed 19:13:51 <Eddi|zuHause> yay, another "white text on white background" post that you people so like ;) 19:13:59 <planetmaker> but would give users an easy place to give feedback 19:14:21 <oftcrash> I linked up the dev thread about it - seems liek bugs end up getting reported in both locations 19:14:40 <frosch123> moin :) 19:17:35 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:25:36 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:50 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has joined #openttd 19:28:40 *** Supercheese [~Password4@76.178.163.204] has joined #openttd 19:35:44 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25004 /trunk/src/lang (7 files) (2013-02-15 18:45:34 UTC) 19:35:45 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 19:35:46 <DorpsGek> finnish - 4 changes by jpx_ 19:35:47 <DorpsGek> german - 4 changes by planetmaker 19:35:47 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:fc9a:5cb8:113b:a6f7] has joined #openttd 19:35:48 <DorpsGek> greek - 108 changes by Evropi 19:35:49 <DorpsGek> italian - 4 changes by lorenzodv 19:35:50 <DorpsGek> japanese - 3 changes by Aknuth 19:35:51 <DorpsGek> korean - 4 changes by telk5093 19:35:52 <DorpsGek> serbian - 9 changes by ivan_mile 19:37:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@2002:4d66:7022:0:fc9a:5cb8:113b:a6f7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:38:09 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:38:12 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 19:38:30 <Alberth> moin 19:38:34 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-68-236.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 19:43:27 *** RavingManiac [~RavingMan@182.55.106.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:49:08 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it's kind of hard to stop with this issue eh? :P 19:51:57 <frosch123> is it allowed to ask an naive question in the bananas topic? 19:52:09 <FLHerne> andythenorth: The stupid bananas issue? 19:52:10 * Supercheese shrugs 19:52:21 <andythenorth> frosch123: eh why not 19:52:28 * FLHerne finds it an interesting argument :-) 19:52:35 <andythenorth> frosch123: check the ToS first though 19:52:38 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it can only be a bad idea :p 19:52:41 <andythenorth> FLHerne: only interesting like car crashes 19:52:44 <Pinkbeast> ... linkie? 19:53:07 <andythenorth> FLHerne: one thing about car crashes is, sometimes it becomes obvious whats going to happen a long time before it happens 19:53:12 <andythenorth> which is what happened here :P 19:53:51 <Supercheese> Well, I didn't see it coming at first 19:54:07 <Supercheese> I even figured it wasn't that bad of idea when I first saw the post at Simuscape 19:54:11 <frosch123> what would happen if i post something like: "all posts in this topic state either "igrf should be banned" or "why bother". is anyone of the opinion that igrf are an enrichment? 19:54:20 <Supercheese> then everybody and their dog starts hatin' on it 19:54:28 <Supercheese> of an idea* 19:54:35 <andythenorth> it's a nice hack 19:54:44 <FLHerne> frosch123: Kamnet (and OzTrans by proxy) would argue at you :D 19:54:48 <Alberth> frosch123: start a poll :) 19:54:53 <FLHerne> And that would be interesting :-) 19:54:55 <andythenorth> technically, it's neat. Socially it's toxic 19:54:57 <Pinkbeast> frosch: I don't think it would help (alas) 19:54:58 <Supercheese> I figured it was marginally better than having no information at all 19:55:03 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: kamnet was trying to make an argument on behalf of "the other side", but i'm not sure i understood his point 19:55:07 <Supercheese> but according to everybody else, nope 19:57:09 <andythenorth> Supercheese: so (repeating case). (Some) players are known to have an issue. Finding and installing content is tricky, confusing, scary. Discovering it, downloading it, figuring out where to put it. Causes issues. Bananas solves that. 19:57:32 <andythenorth> Now. We start putting grfs on bananas that return us to the previous situation, except discovering is marginally easier 19:57:46 <Supercheese> Marginally, yes 19:57:56 <Supercheese> it's already clear these fools won't use Bananas 19:58:08 <Supercheese> so I thought a marginal improvement is better than no improvement at all 19:58:11 <Supercheese> but meh 19:58:11 <planetmaker> nor the required support 19:58:13 <Supercheese> whatever 19:58:15 <andythenorth> so if you accept that Bananas meets that purpose, then it's a bit poor show to start reintroducing the issue 19:58:31 <andythenorth> if you don't accept the purpose of bananas is that, then you won't see the problem 19:58:36 <Pinkbeast> I don't think it's a marginal improvement because it's not worth fucking up the utility of Bananas for one GRF 19:58:41 <FLHerne> Supercheese: It isn't, because it removes the consistent simplicity from Bananas 19:58:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i think there are two separable problems here: problem one is a pointless GRF that wastes everybody's disk space, processing power and bandwidth, and the other is the "referring to other download locations" 19:59:05 <andythenorth> ony two problems? 19:59:07 <Supercheese> I'd be perfectly fine with permabanning iGRFs and those who would make them, don't get me wrong 19:59:08 <andythenorth> I see at least 5 19:59:18 <frosch123> 1. andy 19:59:19 <andythenorth> there may even be 7 problems 19:59:21 <frosch123> 2. andy 19:59:21 <andythenorth> 8 19:59:23 <frosch123> 3. the 19:59:25 <frosch123> 4. north 19:59:27 <frosch123> 5. north 19:59:29 <frosch123> right? 19:59:31 <Supercheese> To me, it makes zero difference 19:59:42 <andythenorth> frosch123 mostly right 19:59:43 <Eddi|zuHause> problem one is a no-brainer, just remove it... problem two could be solved by people actually talking to each other. maybe bananas can have a mode "this GRF exists, but it can't be downloaded here" 19:59:54 <Supercheese> I'll use Bananas and wherever else 19:59:56 <Supercheese> to get stuff 20:00:11 <Supercheese> and TBPH, I don't care that much about random users who can't install grfs manually :P 20:00:23 <planetmaker> forums and IRC are not for talking. Just for exchanging pre-fab opinions 20:00:33 <Eddi|zuHause> then people trying to join servers and stuff would get a "this can't be downloaded here, but try this link" 20:00:54 <Eddi|zuHause> without any stupid dummy grf that serves no purpose at all 20:00:58 <FLHerne> planetmaker: IRC not always. Forums definitely, though :D 20:00:58 <Supercheese> I'll try to make it easy for them by uploading my own GRFs to Bananas, of course 20:02:08 <frosch123> we could add a "search in grfcrawler" button in ottd 20:02:29 <frosch123> unless there is a dicussion every year that grfcrawler will be discontinued :p 20:02:31 <Supercheese> could work 20:02:45 <Supercheese> grfcrawler should be the #2 go-to place for searching for content, IMO 20:02:49 <andythenorth> can we register openttd as a simuscape user? 20:02:50 <Supercheese> right after Bananas 20:03:14 <Supercheese> even before the forums, since grfcrawler links all over 20:03:30 <Supercheese> and directly links, rather than bothering with search functions 20:03:52 * Pinkbeast is catching up and Christ, who are these Simuscape clowns? 20:04:05 <Supercheese> Fools who won't use Bananas 20:04:07 <andythenorth> they're people with names 20:04:21 <Supercheese> created their own site to host their stuff, require registration to even view threads 20:04:27 <andythenorth> they include me 20:04:35 <Supercheese> of course, they actually can produce nice grfs 20:04:39 <Supercheese> which is the problem 20:04:48 <andythenorth> I am an active contributor on simuscape 20:04:57 <Supercheese> If they weren't capable, nobody would care :P 20:05:03 <Pinkbeast> What, is FIRS going behind a paywall or something? 20:05:07 <Supercheese> no, lol 20:05:09 <andythenorth> so if anyone wants to continue the 'us and them' debate, please take it up with me 20:05:14 <FLHerne> Supercheese: They're not fools for avoiding Bananas - that's fine. It's the 'abusing Bananas while avoiding actually using it' that annoys me... 20:05:21 <Supercheese> andythenorth: I have more posts on Simuscape than you :D 20:05:42 <andythenorth> Supercheese: that's resolvable :P 20:05:51 <Supercheese> :U 20:06:10 <Pinkbeast> "Not only is it the 'Official Download Location' for all Canadian related graphics files for both TTDPatch and OpenTTD;" # I seriously doubt that, I wasn't aware the Governor-General even had an opinion on the issue 20:06:34 <Supercheese> FLHerne: yes, and other reasons as well 20:06:53 <oftcrash> I hadn't intended to start a flame war when I posted the original comment - I didn't have enough history with the forums to realize the vitriol that would arise, at least not until I went back and read a few older threads. 20:06:57 <andythenorth> I've seen at least as many fools on tt-forums 20:07:02 <andythenorth> if not more 20:07:47 <FLHerne> andythenorth: There does seem to be correlation between Simuscape and those who dislike Bananas, though :P 20:07:48 <Supercheese> Perhaps it's the trend of making major releases on April Fool's 20:08:00 <Supercheese> I blame the devs 20:08:03 <Supercheese> :P 20:08:40 <planetmaker> I mostly see a correlation between "evil devs" opinion and simuscape 20:08:46 <Supercheese> ^ 20:08:48 <oftcrash> Is there a compromise solution - leave the one iGRF on bananas unless the author wants to remove it (one time deal), then amend the upload policy to explicitly require that newgrfs, or any other download I guess, have in-game playability or something like that? 20:09:10 <Supercheese> What if I released my "NewGRF List Separators" on Bananas? 20:09:13 <Supercheese> Those have no playability 20:09:27 <Pinkbeast> oftcrash: or better yet, take out the trash and get rid of the obviously junk GRF 20:09:31 <Supercheese> but admittedly you wouldn't have to go register somewhere to get them 20:09:43 <planetmaker> I even have written proof of my statement :-) 20:09:50 <Supercheese> and they would have "full functionality" 20:10:23 <FLHerne> Supercheese: They have a useful purpose to the user, however... 20:10:28 <peter1138> you have proof that we're evil? 20:10:42 <aditsu> planetmaker: thanks, sorry I forgot to check back earlier, since there was no message directed to me 20:10:42 <planetmaker> that, too ;-) 20:10:43 <oftcrash> Pinkbeast: Just removing it could escalate and start a bigger discussion about the devs taking on content editing authority. Leaving it in place as a grandfathered newgrf, then starting with all new uploads after that is the cleanest 20:10:45 <Supercheese> Yeah, not the same 20:10:58 <planetmaker> aditsu, ? 20:11:18 <Pinkbeast> oft: If there is going to be a policy change rather than an arbitary act of fiat, they're already taking on that authority. 20:11:21 <frosch123> oftcrash: there will be for sure no rules for what will be hosted 20:11:29 <andythenorth> there really is no need for policy change 20:11:32 <aditsu> planetmaker: you were answering me about proxy/tunneling 20:11:38 <Pinkbeast> If I were in their position I'd remove it and tell the uploader not to be a B.F. 20:11:41 <andythenorth> rubidi*m or whoever just marks the grf so it 's hidden, end of 20:11:44 <planetmaker> oh, ok :-) 20:11:58 <andythenorth> no policy change, no ToS blah blah blah, and no fricking endless hate war in the forum 20:12:00 <frosch123> if at all there would be a rule: "we can deny to host any content without giving reasons" 20:12:12 <andythenorth> frosch123: there already is, implicitly 20:12:16 <Pinkbeast> frosch: A guideline: "don't be a dick". 20:12:16 <planetmaker> yes, that, frosch123 20:12:22 <andythenorth> the ToS confer no rights on uploaders 20:12:24 <andythenorth> there is no SLA 20:12:33 <andythenorth> no guarantee of service, or fair treatment 20:12:48 <frosch123> Pinkbeast: other sites express it like "this is a private site; if we don't like you, we ban you" or something like that 20:12:55 <andythenorth> I have actually read the ToS, unlike, I assume, a lot of people 20:13:02 <aditsu> oh, I see I can get the server ip from the list 20:13:04 * Supercheese has not read them 20:13:19 <Pinkbeast> frosch: I wouldn't go that far; I think Bananas should strive to provide an even-handed service to all good-faith uploaders. 20:13:20 <planetmaker> but... you agreed to them, Supercheese ;-) 20:13:22 <Supercheese> I'd presume they basically convey "Don't be a dick" 20:13:30 <Supercheese> and I can get on board with that 20:13:39 <oftcrash> its more about perception - draconian approaches create more resentment. You have to wrap the draconian approach in nice language and a token compromise to make it seem fair 20:13:40 <planetmaker> Pinkbeast, it should. But that sentence doesn't change that 20:13:46 <frosch123> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17883#cmd01 <- something like that rule #1 20:13:55 <Supercheese> planetmaker: of course, I read a generic ToS once, and then presume 99.9% of all other ToSes are similar 20:14:01 <andythenorth> Supercheese: all the ToS confer is the absolute right for ottd to distribute 20:14:02 <Supercheese> I can't be too wrong, eh 20:14:03 <andythenorth> and repackage 20:14:09 <andythenorth> all the rights granting is one way 20:14:10 <Alberth> bye 20:14:13 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:14:34 <frosch123> Pinkbeast: you can word it nicely, if you are a native speaker :) 20:14:52 <andythenorth> don't word it, it's a fricking minefield 20:15:01 <frosch123> andythenorth: "all the rights granting" does not work for us 20:15:08 <andythenorth> ? 20:15:11 <Pinkbeast> I think "don't like" is a bit too strong - I don't _like_ the lorry set with naked ladies on, but I'm not sure it should be excised. 20:15:12 <andythenorth> what's broken about it? 20:15:25 * Supercheese likes that set 20:15:31 <frosch123> we are not going to have appstore terms 20:15:36 <frosch123> which conflict with gpl or similar 20:15:40 <frosch123> that would be silly :p 20:15:44 <Supercheese> rather 20:15:50 <andythenorth> but I'm only describing what we do have? o_O 20:15:54 * andythenorth is puzzled ;) 20:16:47 <Pinkbeast> In particular explicitly wording a policy means (inevitably) people will push right to the edge of it. 20:17:22 <andythenorth> and if written wrong, it can unintentionally confer rights 20:17:48 <Supercheese> Maybe I did read the ToS 20:17:55 <Supercheese> if I did, I certainly have forgotten :P 20:18:16 <andythenorth> :) 20:18:43 <Supercheese> http://bananas.openttd.org/en/manager/tos/ 20:18:45 <Supercheese> wheee 20:18:59 <Supercheese> tl;dr 20:19:10 <Pinkbeast> Nerf this one upload, not good faith, but don't try and establish a boundary, if you ask me. 20:19:21 <frosch123> the tos is only about the rights bananas gets for the content 20:19:41 <andythenorth> yes 20:19:42 <frosch123> it does not claim any duties for anyone 20:19:46 <Supercheese> All except #1 start with "You grant the OpenTTD team" 20:19:46 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly, it doesn't talk about the duties that the service has 20:19:54 <andythenorth> it has a dangerous 'everyone' 20:20:05 <andythenorth> " everyone can download the content when they know that identifier" 20:20:13 <andythenorth> but nvm 20:20:17 <andythenorth> it will never come to court :) 20:20:27 <Supercheese> ToS seem fine to me 20:20:32 <andythenorth> yes 20:20:41 <andythenorth> I am -lots on changing them 20:20:42 <planetmaker> they're intentionally minimal 20:20:51 <andythenorth> really really really -lots 20:21:29 <andythenorth> all of this resolves to "don't be a dick", whether that's uploading stupid grfs, or saying stupid things about other people 20:21:35 <andythenorth> except me 20:21:40 <andythenorth> and make nice things 20:21:52 <oftcrash> I love FIRS :) 20:22:00 <oftcrash> and HEQS 20:22:07 <Supercheese> indeed 20:22:09 <peter1138> i don't 20:22:12 <peter1138> andythenorth's a dick 20:22:17 <andythenorth> exactly 20:22:18 <Supercheese> trololo 20:22:27 <andythenorth> where is roadtypes? 20:22:27 <Pinkbeast> I hear he's one of those simuscape clowns. :-) 20:22:42 * FLHerne also likes FISH and CHIPS :-) 20:22:51 <andythenorth> FISH has been eaten by Squid 20:22:59 <frosch123> not sure about simuscape and andy. currently i think pikka has a worse influence on andy 20:23:06 <andythenorth> I could have finished it by now, but people were being wrong on the internet 20:23:14 <andythenorth> pikka la la la 20:23:18 <oftcrash> Could I attempt another derailment with an industry nml question? Actually, probably a bunch of questions 20:23:32 <Supercheese> martian industries? 20:23:36 <oftcrash> yeah 20:23:41 * Supercheese should play a game with those 20:23:44 <Supercheese> they look nice :) 20:23:45 <oftcrash> I'm trying to figure out how to get the cargo production requirements working 20:23:50 <andythenorth> wrt? 20:24:07 <Supercheese> I always hated being on mars and transporting Toffee and Soda and Cotton Candy 20:24:29 <oftcrash> yeah - it really just started out as something fun to do to learn NML 20:24:42 <planetmaker> there's a produce callback, oftcrash 20:24:44 <oftcrash> Not what I had intended to do much on - such is live 20:25:30 <oftcrash> I found the produce callback, but the syntax has me a bit perplexed 20:25:45 <oftcrash> Let me get the latest version up on github 20:26:41 <andythenorth> I would help 20:26:44 <andythenorth> but have to go out :) 20:26:59 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18E85.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:07 <andythenorth> there will be FIRS examples 20:27:36 <oftcrash> yeah... FIRS has been helpful... but you guys do all sorts of crazy stuff in there so its hard to weed through it all and figure out what is what. 20:28:01 <andythenorth> oh yeah, this one is *really* simple :o 20:28:01 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host13-174-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:28:02 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/templates/produce_secondary.pnml 20:28:07 <Wolf01> hi o/ 20:28:12 <oftcrash> crazy as in cool, but beyond my abilities at this point 20:28:19 <planetmaker> bah... andy was faster :-) 20:28:23 <andythenorth> 30 lines of advanced varact 2 in one template :P 20:28:28 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Out of interest, how tricky would it be to make an addon-grf to FIRS? 20:28:34 <andythenorth> only slightly 20:28:37 <planetmaker> just copied the link... but primary... http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/templates/produce_primary.pnml 20:28:37 <andythenorth> mostly easy 20:28:55 <andythenorth> what are you making? 20:28:57 <frosch123> FLHerne: quite tricky, because firs changes all the time :p 20:29:04 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Oh, ok. I might try out some of my stupid chain ideas then :-) 20:29:15 <andythenorth> economies make your life way harder 20:29:19 <andythenorth> oops 20:29:36 <oftcrash> ah, cool - thanks. I was reading through the NML 20:30:09 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Not sure really, I had strange ideas about electric power, and related industries :P 20:30:13 <andythenorth> strange 20:30:27 <Supercheese> Adding electricity is easy-ish 20:30:33 <Supercheese> Making it good gameplay is hard 20:30:52 <Supercheese> I tried, found gameplay booooooooring 20:32:50 <aditsu> planetmaker: I set up a tunnel but it says server offline when I try to use it 20:33:05 <aditsu> telnet connects 20:33:12 <Eddi|zuHause> aditsu: you need to redirect both TCP and UDP through the tunnel 20:33:27 <jonty-comp> myes, tunnels often don't do UDP 20:33:39 <andythenorth> bye 20:33:42 <aditsu> ooh, I missed the UDP part 20:33:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:33:50 <aditsu> hmm.. it's an ssh tunnel 20:35:25 <FLHerne> Is it possible to add extra carogs to town/houseset acceptance? 20:35:35 <aditsu> it's super nasty to do udp through that :| 20:36:48 <aditsu> maybe I should use some iptables rules instead.. still quite nasty 20:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: yes, but you have to modify the house sets directly 20:38:20 <Eddi|zuHause> aditsu: i never made a tunnel, so i can't help you with that 20:38:26 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Not very convenient then :-( . Is it possible to edit the accepted cargoes of a houseset from a thirdparty grf? 20:38:44 <oftcrash> The house IDs are usuall sequential, I think 20:38:46 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: no 20:39:20 <oftcrash> I created a short script to loop through the IDs and override the accepted cargo types - it generated the NML for each house. 20:39:22 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Why do the OTTD/NewGRF devs never add the features/spec I need for my idiotic schemes!? :P 20:39:25 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: each houseset gets its own copy of the original houses, you can't modify houses of other grfs 20:39:36 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip4.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 20:40:11 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody apparently considered the idea of applying the engine_override feature for those (which is actually newer than the house sets) 20:40:27 <aditsu> a simple forwarding tool (working directly with sockets) would be ideal.. it just needs to do udp 20:40:41 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: That was what I was thinking of when I asked :P 20:41:10 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: well, implement it then ;) 20:41:28 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Still insufficient C++ing skill :-( 20:41:49 * FLHerne is slowly trying to learn it 20:42:32 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: skills in any other general purpose programming language should suffice... the rest is just syntax and details you figure out along the way :) 20:43:45 <Supercheese> ^ pretty much 20:44:23 <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: Only other one I know is C, and I'm not very good at that either :P 20:49:27 *** pjpe [b8af1d68@ircip4.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 20:55:28 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:38 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:00:16 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:07:43 *** lolek1 [~lolek@78.133.210.26] has left #openttd [] 21:11:01 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:11:04 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 21:11:06 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d114-78-18-160.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 21:11:20 <Pikka> yebbut 21:11:26 <peter1138> nobut 21:14:22 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p5DC66E31.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:14:58 <Wolf01> I don't know why, but I suddenly remembered "Little Britain" 21:16:20 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-98-215.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:18:48 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66E31.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:20:24 *** zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22:08 *** zeknurn [~Zeknurn@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 21:25:16 <aditsu> oh wow I made it! socks server (using ssh) + tsocks :) 21:30:28 <FLHerne> Pikka: Hoy. No more UKRS2? :-( 21:31:29 <planetmaker> nice, aditsu 21:33:41 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 21:47:46 <Eddi|zuHause> FLHerne: i think pikka just easily gets bored when a project has reached a certain stage of maturity and wants to start over 21:48:00 <FLHerne> Fair enough :-) 21:48:34 <FLHerne> As long as it doesn't magically delete itself as soon as he stops updating it, it's fine :P 21:54:13 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:01 *** FLHerne [~quassel@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:55:36 <jonty-comp> it's fine, the old versions will remain available...on bananas 21:58:21 <Eddi|zuHause> .. unless he converts to simuscapism :p 22:00:05 <Eddi|zuHause> the whole idea that not keeping old versions around makes people more likely to use the new version reminds me of this movie where the guy invents the wheel, but makes it square so that it can't roll backwards. 22:00:10 *** pandatrax [~pandatrax@0001b19b.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:00:42 <Supercheese> heh 22:02:04 <Eddi|zuHause> funny: the german wikipedia says the "carry on" series consists of 30 movies, and the english wikipedia says 31 movies... 22:02:14 <Supercheese> oftcrash: you build martian industries using python? 22:02:25 <oftcrash> yeah 22:02:38 <oftcrash> I poked at python a while back, but decided to actually learn it 22:02:40 <Supercheese> Interesting 22:02:42 <oftcrash> seemed like a good way 22:02:48 * Supercheese has never done much with python 22:02:50 <oftcrash> my build scripts are really ugly though 22:03:07 <oftcrash> not architected - more of a "hey, I should make a function" 22:03:08 <Supercheese> I just use .pnml and gcc preprocessor 22:03:48 <oftcrash> I can send you the processed nml if you want 22:03:58 <Supercheese> I think I have python installed 22:04:02 <Supercheese> I just don't code with it 22:04:09 <oftcrash> you'll need python, plus jinja2 22:04:16 <oftcrash> jinja2 is a templating engine 22:04:36 <oftcrash> I can just commit the latest build too - might be easiest 22:05:16 <oftcrash> the python is the easy part really - the NML is what's kicking my butt. I think I'm just missing some basics. 22:05:17 <Eddi|zuHause> templating engines are funny things... they're supposed to be flexible and reusable, and then everybody uses a different one 22:05:34 <Supercheese> I've not done much with industries 22:05:35 <Eddi|zuHause> so no actual reusing happens :) 22:05:39 <Supercheese> Seems harder than vehicles 22:05:45 <oftcrash> yeah - I grabbed it since we're looking at doing some stuff with jinja2 and flask at work 22:05:56 <oftcrash> yeah, wish I'd started with vehicles 22:06:28 <Eddi|zuHause> vehicles are boring, everybody does them 22:06:35 <oftcrash> the documentation is pretty good, but there are sections that assume a certain amount of knowledge about the game mechanics, or even NFO 22:06:43 <Supercheese> Newgrfs are boring, everybody does them :P 22:06:59 <oftcrash> all these action 1, action 14... I have to look them up and its all pretty wonky :) 22:07:01 <Eddi|zuHause> oftcrash: knowing the underlying nfo concept is often helpful, yes 22:07:12 * Supercheese knows very little about NFO 22:07:19 <Supercheese> I hear it's hex 22:07:26 <oftcrash> upon your house? 22:07:36 <Supercheese> Evil stuff :P 22:07:53 <oftcrash> There are FF people in the world, those who understand hex, those who don't, and 14 others 22:08:22 <jonty-comp> back in my day we wrote our TTD addons in assembly 22:08:22 <Supercheese> Isn't FF higher than 16? 22:08:37 <aditsu> oftcrash is in the 2nd category :p 22:08:39 <Supercheese> Like, 255? 22:08:49 <planetmaker> oftcrash, if you can do python you can actually write NML (without 'in') ;-) 22:08:49 <oftcrash> er, F 22:09:05 <Supercheese> that would be 15 then 22:09:08 <Supercheese> 13 others* 22:09:30 <oftcrash> Sorry, I started life as a front-end web developer - everything was in doubles :) 22:09:42 <planetmaker> it's more fun with binary... 22:09:44 <jonty-comp> by the looks of it, everybody is in the latter category 22:10:01 <planetmaker> there's 10 people in the world who understand binary. Who's the other? 22:10:09 <jonty-comp> i wonder if the number of people that understand hex is as high as 1 in 15 22:10:33 <Supercheese> highly doubtful 22:11:15 <planetmaker> who needs that when not being a nerd? 22:11:56 <oftcrash> maybe we should just code all grfs in assembly like Sawyer would have :) 22:12:03 <oftcrash> or did, really 22:12:38 <planetmaker> Not really. the base grfs are much much simpler 22:12:52 <planetmaker> no action0,1,2,3,... only real sprites 22:13:04 *** aditsu [~aditsu@183178080020.ctinets.com] has left #openttd [] 22:14:24 <oftcrash> I think I came at it all backwards - I started with trying to modify and duplicate the oil rig, and then finally figured out from forum posts and looking through the source that what I wanted wasn't possible yet. 22:14:49 <oftcrash> I should have just drawn a picture - followed the tutorials for that and then worked my way up to industries :) 22:15:13 <oftcrash> I'm re-reading the NML tutorial now 22:15:44 <Supercheese> Unfortunately the tutorial doesn't touch industries IIRC 22:15:54 <Supercheese> touch/cover/describe 22:16:15 <oftcrash> no, but there's stuff about the general game that helps - understanding the time, switches, etc 22:16:50 <oftcrash> stuff I didn't fully grasp. I don't learn well from reading - I need flow charts and hands-on. 22:17:45 <oftcrash> which is why I went into management a few years back :) 22:23:04 <oftcrash> any idea how many people play TTPatch vs OpenTTD? 22:23:31 <oftcrash> I'd rather not have to deal with testing for TTP 22:26:03 <frosch123> there are about 3 people who talk abou ttdp 22:26:11 <frosch123> it's unlikely that they play though 22:26:16 <oskari892> SAC? 22:26:27 <frosch123> outside of the forums there are likely still some hundred people who play ttdp 2.0.1 for years 22:26:36 <frosch123> and have never discovered that there are other things 22:27:30 <frosch123> overall, i guess you can assume a ratio of 1:500 or 1:1000 for ttdp:ottd 22:28:33 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-168-176.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 22:28:35 <oskari892> OpenTTD now is lightyears away from ttdp developement and the distance grows continously 22:28:49 <oftcrash> good enough for me :) 22:28:56 <jonty-comp> it only makes sense to develop for openttd 22:29:03 <frosch123> oskari892: that does not necessarily affect the players 22:29:11 <jonty-comp> as all you realistically want people to do is go "oh, this doesn't work in ttdpatch" and then move to openttd 22:29:15 <frosch123> there are tons of people playing ancient versions of ottd and ttdp 22:29:21 <jonty-comp> and then that makes it easier for everyone 22:29:27 <LordAro> heyo all 22:29:45 <frosch123> i am quite sure there are way more people playing ttdp 2.0.1 than ttdp 2.5 beta or 2.6 alpha 22:30:20 <frosch123> there are regularly people on the forums asking how to upgrade from ottd 0.6 etc 22:30:24 <SpComb> ttdp 2.0.1 > ottd 1.2.3 22:30:37 <oskari892> Did someone bake the r25000 cake btw? 22:30:38 <oskari892> :) 22:30:47 <oskari892> Like someone did on r10000 22:30:58 <frosch123> no, i believe the party was rescheduled to summer 22:31:32 <frosch123> there was also a r20k cake, and i had a piece of it; but i believe there are no public pictures of it 22:31:35 <LordAro> wait, we didn't suspend all OTTD development until summer? 22:32:07 <oskari892> Seems that it's going to be r30000 in summer, at this speed 22:32:11 <frosch123> r20k was an almond cake if i remeber correctly 22:32:34 <frosch123> oskari892: currently we are at about 1000 revisions a year 22:32:42 <frosch123> so, quite some time till r30k 22:32:44 <oskari892> Okay :P 22:33:04 <oskari892> Is there any chart of developement speed? 22:33:12 <Supercheese> There was some fancy youtube video once 22:33:19 <Supercheese> IIRC 22:33:23 <frosch123> there are many 22:33:30 <frosch123> ohloh is one of them 22:33:40 <Supercheese> Whizbang graphical depiction of OTTD development 22:33:41 <oskari892> Link? 22:33:51 <frosch123> just type "ohloh openttd" in your searchbar 22:34:21 <frosch123> then you can search for visualisation of ottd developement on the forums 22:34:29 <frosch123> which should give you a nice video from darkvater 22:34:41 <frosch123> someone made an upgrade to it later 22:34:48 <frosch123> i think it was tb, but not sure 22:36:08 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: didn't you mean ttdp 2.0.1r1? 22:36:42 <frosch123> i think it is 2.0r1 22:37:04 <oskari892> http://www.tt-forums.net/openttd/openttd_visualised.avi 22:37:09 <frosch123> October 24, 2003: TTDPatch 2.0 rev 1 available 22:37:52 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, that way around then 22:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that is almost 10 years ago :p 22:39:36 <Eddi|zuHause> did the asteroid hit earth yet? 22:40:05 <jonty-comp> back when alt.games.microprose.transport-tycoon was the number one place to be :P 22:40:35 <jonty-comp> when i first emailed MB at the tender age of 12 22:40:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i never usenet-ed 22:41:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and i was older than 12 back then :p 22:41:39 * Supercheese was 13 in 2003 22:41:50 <Supercheese> good times 22:42:03 <Stimrol> hello, about the 4 new string in the newest build, where do they appear in game? 22:42:05 <Supercheese> I played TTDP, but didn't really join any community stuffs 22:42:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i was 12-ish when i played TTO :) 22:42:37 <Supercheese> I was 5-6 22:42:43 <Supercheese> I don't precisely recall, a wee lad 22:42:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Stimrol: what strings are those? 22:42:59 <oftcrash> I was 20 when I played TTO 22:43:10 <Supercheese> didn't join any community stuff until 2007 22:43:23 * Supercheese wonders what his first post was 22:43:25 <Stimrol> Eddi|zuHause, for example this one --> STR_SERVICE_INTERVAL_DROPDOWN_TOOLTIP 22:43:30 <Supercheese> probably embarrassingly silly :P 22:43:37 <frosch123> Stimrol: vehicle gui 22:43:41 <frosch123> vehicle details 22:43:42 <frosch123> bottom 22:44:19 <LordAro> Supercheese: mine was one of the many topics asking where the old AI had gone :) 22:44:23 <Supercheese> Actually, not silly at all http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=41132&p=911686#p911686 22:44:33 <Supercheese> Joined 2007, didn't post until 2010?! 22:44:38 <Supercheese> Pro lurker 22:44:57 <Stimrol> frosch123, thanks found it :) 22:45:58 <frosch123> Supercheese: why did you register if not for posting? 22:46:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: i took some time to join forums and stuff as well 22:46:07 <Supercheese> I haven't the foggiest 22:46:15 <Supercheese> evidently, lurking like mad 22:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: remembers the (un)read posts? 22:46:27 <frosch123> i was also 2 years on the forums before registering 22:46:41 <frosch123> i never use "unread posts" 22:46:54 <frosch123> my goal is not to read every post 22:46:58 <frosch123> not even remotely 22:47:14 <frosch123> it's sufficient to read the titles of the topics to dismiss 2/3 22:47:18 <Supercheese> I read every post that's outside of the General Transport, OffTopic, and Locomotion sections 22:47:28 <Supercheese> which is probably less than 1/3 of all posts :P 22:47:52 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it's more about continuing to read a thread at the point you stopped 22:48:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: i read way fewer subforums than that 22:48:47 <SpComb> I barely read the forums anymore 22:49:02 *** lofejndif [~lsqavnbok@212.84.206.250] has joined #openttd 22:49:18 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: reading topics with more than 10 posts is usually a waste of time 22:49:26 <SpComb> used to read almost everything at one point 22:49:34 <frosch123> and i can remember where i was in shorter topics :p 22:49:55 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, i sometimes wish i could ignore things like the dutch train set thread, which has about 100 posts on a busy day :) 22:50:16 <Supercheese> where 80% of the posts are Voyager One drawing sprites 22:50:20 <frosch123> ohoh, that sounds like you fail to ignore it :o 22:50:33 <Supercheese> he draws so many sprites, it's incredible @_@ 22:50:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i totally fail at ignoring stuff 22:50:51 * peter1138 ignores Eddi|zuHause 22:50:55 <Supercheese> /ignore 22:51:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm already glad i can ignore the AI forum or the 32bpp forum 22:51:12 <Supercheese> There are barely any posts there anyways 22:51:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but ignoring individual threads at forums that i read is really difficult 22:51:47 <Eddi|zuHause> and the forum's ignore function is totally useless 22:51:54 <peter1138> you can't ignore the 32bpp 22:52:01 <Eddi|zuHause> I CAN!!! 22:52:05 <peter1138> you'll miss out on all that fantastic groundbreaking content 22:52:16 <Eddi|zuHause> WATCH ME! 22:52:36 <Supercheese> peter1138: You mean zbase? And... well... there isn't anything else, is there? 22:52:46 <Supercheese> Oh wait, old GRVTS 22:52:51 <peter1138> there's ... uh ... that 8/32bpp thing 22:52:52 <Supercheese> Wheee, 2 things 22:52:57 <LordAro> there's the old stuff, which mostly isn't usable anymore 22:52:59 <Supercheese> OH, OGFX+ Trains 22:53:01 <Supercheese> 3 things! 22:53:02 <peter1138> which is crud 22:53:03 <peter1138> hmm 22:53:22 <Supercheese> Bad_Brett's working on stuff, unreleased though 22:53:28 <peter1138> but hey, wasn't 32bpp just waiting on EZ? 22:53:34 <peter1138> i mean that's only been a year 22:53:34 <Bad_Brett> Someone called? 22:53:43 <peter1138> Bad_Brett's stuff looks goo 22:53:45 <peter1138> er 22:53:46 <peter1138> good 22:53:54 <Supercheese> You could claim like, 50% of the 32bpp market share like that 22:53:59 <Supercheese> just release a grf 22:55:41 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, total goo... 22:56:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: CETS supports 32bpp 22:56:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that must be like 20000 sprites :p 22:56:28 *** DDR_ [~chatzilla@d108-180-68-17.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 22:56:36 <Supercheese> CETS... that isn't publicized much is it? 22:56:40 <frosch123> what happened to cets? 22:56:50 <Eddi|zuHause> currently too busy 22:56:59 <frosch123> did it break under its complexity? 22:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause> it broke under nmlc's memory huggyness 22:58:11 <Eddi|zuHause> needs like >2GB free memory to compile, which i don't have, so it blocks the system swapping for 30 minutes 22:58:14 <Supercheese> It's real snazzy though, with them extra-turn-stages 22:58:24 <Bad_Brett> whaaat? 22:58:35 <Supercheese> Smooth-turning 22:58:38 <Supercheese> wizardry 22:58:59 <Supercheese> too bad the method only works for trains 22:58:59 <Bad_Brett> in that case you won't see a Bad Brett release in the near future 22:59:04 <Supercheese> ? 22:59:29 <Bad_Brett> if cets needs over 2GB free memory to compile 22:59:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Bad_Brett: you wouldn't hit that limit unless you have 4000 vehicles in your GRF :p 23:00:13 <oftcrash> Is it possible to articulate a ship or plane? 23:00:28 <Supercheese> Nope, don't think so 23:00:40 <Eddi|zuHause> oftcrash: planes are articulated (plane, shadow, rotor), and ships can't be articulated 23:00:47 <Supercheese> 'articulated' 23:00:58 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d108-180-68-236.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:01:07 *** DDR_ is now known as DDR 23:01:19 <oftcrash> ah, but not in the sense of having a flying train, if you will 23:01:25 <Eddi|zuHause> no 23:01:28 <Supercheese> Someone suggested that once 23:01:30 <Supercheese> wouldn't work 23:01:36 <Supercheese> for a great many reasons 23:01:53 <oftcrash> fun book I read a while back had sky trains using blimps 23:02:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: well, it's necessary for allowing NewGRF state machines for road vehicle stations 23:02:16 <Supercheese> Flying trains would be cool though: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=16335 23:03:05 <Bad_Brett> I would like an option to set the aircraft flying height 23:03:10 <Supercheese> so would I 23:03:24 <Supercheese> Someone said it's supposed to vary with aircraft speed 23:03:30 <Supercheese> I don't believe that :P 23:03:39 <Bad_Brett> me neither :P 23:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there is code that does that 23:03:54 <Supercheese> well it doesn't work very well 23:03:58 <Bad_Brett> hmm interesting 23:04:25 <LordAro> I believe it is there, but not very obvious 23:04:42 <LordAro> becomes more obvious if you have more height levels patch, iirc 23:05:05 <Bad_Brett> in that case it might be possible to add road vehicles that can travel in rough terrain? 23:05:18 <Bad_Brett> i guess the collision detection won't work but who cares? 23:05:29 <Supercheese> Ghost trains 23:05:33 <Supercheese> fly through buildings 23:05:40 <Supercheese> Halloween .grf 23:05:54 <Bad_Brett> heh 23:07:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it's most visible when a plane approaches a waiting loop and slows down there 23:07:05 <Eddi|zuHause> then you see it lowering 23:07:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: planes already fly through buildings 23:07:36 <Bad_Brett> intersting... got to chech it out 23:07:40 <Supercheese> Eddi|zuHause: good point 23:07:58 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you're playing SimCity 2000 23:07:59 <Supercheese> Also, I have never seen panes do that 23:08:34 <Supercheese> errr, not clip through buildings, I mean change height other than takeoff/landing 23:08:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6B278.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: there might be a video out there called "yexoair" or so 23:09:06 <Bad_Brett> so if you set the speed to like 10 mph they "fly" at a low height? 23:10:00 <LordAro> speaking of Yexo, where has he been? haven't seen him around for a while... 23:10:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D020.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 23:10:16 <Eddi|zuHause> @seen Yexo 23:10:16 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 11 weeks, 0 days, 9 hours, 3 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet 23:10:29 <Supercheese> pfff hahahahaha 23:10:34 <Supercheese> http://games.openttdcoop.org/screens/yexoair2.mpeg 23:10:40 <Eddi|zuHause> well, he's still here... 23:10:56 * Supercheese can't stop laughing 23:11:16 <frosch123> base_altitude += min(20 * (v->vcache.cached_max_speed / 200), 90); 23:11:54 <frosch123> aircraft flying at 900 km-ish/h have maximum height 23:12:02 <Eddi|zuHause> so there's a minimum of 90 pixels? 23:12:20 <oskari892> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb1B3GX4UGA 23:12:20 <frosch123> PLANE_HOLDING_ALTITUDE = 150 23:12:21 <Eddi|zuHause> or no, a maximum of 90 23:12:32 <frosch123> it's 150 to 240 for planes 23:12:41 <frosch123> helicopters are fixed at 184, independent of speed 23:12:53 <Supercheese> Would be nice to have that newgrf-configurable 23:12:56 <Supercheese> new prop 23:13:04 <Bad_Brett> indeed 23:13:13 <Supercheese> new prop for jets :D 23:13:17 <Supercheese> (bad pun) 23:13:24 <Bad_Brett> jhaha 23:13:29 <frosch123> wrt. more heightlevels it is more important to change it into a height over ground thingie 23:13:37 <frosch123> rather than an absolute height thingie 23:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, but it shouldn't change for every ground level change 23:14:20 <Bad_Brett> yes of course 23:14:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 23:14:32 <frosch123> when i thought about that some time ago, i thought abuot making them ascend quickly 23:14:37 <frosch123> and descent slowly 23:14:51 <frosch123> i.e. ascending with tile slope, but descending one heightlevel per 10 tiles only 23:14:55 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: there are plenty discussions in the more heightlevels topic, i think 23:15:17 <frosch123> likely, but that topic is so long that it is hard to find the interesting posts 23:15:36 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it ended up with a hysteresis-like height curve 23:15:54 <frosch123> yeah, a hysteresis might also be a good idea 23:16:23 <frosch123> only start descending if there are at least 2 heightlevels to descend or so 23:16:37 <Bad_Brett> it would indeed be nice if you could set these parameters in nml 23:16:51 <frosch123> why? 23:16:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember the exact step size that was taken 23:17:08 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably easier to find that in the code than in the thread, though :p 23:17:18 <frosch123> i don't see why newgrfs would want to set this 23:17:59 <Supercheese> Some slow aircraft may be specialized for high-altitude 23:18:00 <frosch123> i mean ottd does silly thing like making planes flying north or east go at 10 pixels higher... to avoid collisions... 23:18:22 <Supercheese> frosch123: that sounds.... realistic! 23:18:51 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not like collisions would be visible on a 2-d-screen :p 23:19:01 <Bad_Brett> frosch123: aircraft type vehicles could be used for others things... you could make birds (like the town cars AI)... you could make hovercrafts... and other things 23:19:02 <frosch123> it just means that planes collide with planes flying 100 km-ish/h faster 23:19:03 <Supercheese> although it's more of a "Fly at these altitudes N/E" rather than a fixed altitude 23:19:20 <Supercheese> "S/W flies at (altitudes - 500)" or so 23:19:22 <frosch123> Bad_Brett: we had a hovercraft patch 23:19:25 <frosch123> but it was a ship 23:19:26 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: aren't the internal speed units like 8mph? 23:19:28 * Supercheese can't recall specifics 23:19:36 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: no, that is the newgrf unit 23:19:42 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: or was that "fixed" and only kept for newgrf compatibility? 23:19:44 <frosch123> ottd has only km-ish/h internally 23:20:07 <frosch123> ottd converts it's own units to newgrf and traditional-station-rating units 23:20:48 <frosch123> hmm, actually not true 23:20:53 <frosch123> only planes were changed 23:21:06 <frosch123> ships and rv still use 0.5 km-ish/h 23:23:06 <Bad_Brett> anyway, i guess it would mean a lot of work... but if you could keep aircrafts at a ground level, the pathfinder could be used to create new exciting objects... for example, you could send forwarders to a forest without building roads 23:23:30 <Supercheese> proper Hover Vehicles 23:23:43 <Supercheese> DeLoreans 23:23:51 <Supercheese> "We don't need roads" 23:24:09 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 23:24:12 <Supercheese> all technically possible as-is though 23:24:37 <frosch123> Bad_Brett: you forgot that ottd is a transport game 23:24:44 <frosch123> building infrastructure is the whole point of the game 23:24:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Bad_Brett: maybe you want "offroad" vehicles instead ;) 23:25:01 <frosch123> making vehicle not require infrastructure makes it pointless 23:25:11 <Bad_Brett> well the same thing could be said about all aircrafts 23:25:22 <frosch123> guess what why people don't like aircraft :) 23:25:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Bad_Brett: but the pathfinder will go mad 23:25:40 <frosch123> and ships 23:25:50 * Supercheese likes all means of transport 23:26:08 <Bad_Brett> i find ships quite interesting since the addition of rivers 23:26:13 <Supercheese> I recall saying I'd try my hand at Star Trek-style transporters, the ultimate in no-infrastructure-required 23:26:20 <frosch123> ships and aircraft have their niche in the game 23:26:21 <Eddi|zuHause> every time i try aircraft i find them horribly inefficient 23:26:27 <Supercheese> of course I've been too lazy to do it :P 23:26:28 <frosch123> but you cannot play an entire game with them 23:27:19 <andythenorth> mm 23:27:22 <Eddi|zuHause> you cannot manage airports to increase their efficiency... it's take it or leave it 23:27:24 <andythenorth> hovercraft 23:28:12 <Eddi|zuHause> then planes spend 90% of the time circling in the holding pattern and you have no way to optimize it 23:28:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and when you try timetabling, you notice that there are too few loading bays on the airport 23:29:09 <Wolf01> 'night 23:29:15 <Supercheese> ...and then someone makes a patch for ridiculously-huge airports 23:29:15 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:29:54 <Eddi|zuHause> ... which doesn't solve any problems at all, you can just throw more planes at it before it shows... 23:30:03 <Supercheese> indeed 23:30:40 <Terkhen> good night 23:30:45 <Supercheese> For drop-off-only, you can just build more airports, but how often do you only drop-off air cargo? 23:31:10 <Supercheese> and you've got to get it from somewhere 23:31:36 <Eddi|zuHause> once. i took oil from an oil rig by zeppelin, and landed it on a helidepot 23:31:44 <Bad_Brett> if you could get a working pathfinder, offroad vechicles is not a bad idea really... it would be dumpers, forwarders, wagon trains (obviously)... building roads could be expensive but greatly increase the speed and lower the running cost... it wouldn't work with the unmodded game, but I think it would work rather well with newgrf's... 23:31:50 <andythenorth> and there are noise limits or airport limits 23:31:59 <andythenorth> offroad vehicles :P 23:32:00 <Supercheese> disable that crap 23:32:04 <andythenorth> there's an idea I've had 10 times 23:32:07 <Supercheese> noise limits, nah 23:32:08 <Bad_Brett> though i realise that coding that would be practically impossible :P 23:32:10 <andythenorth> ice roads! 23:32:20 <andythenorth> Bad_Brett: why wouldn't it work? 23:32:23 <andythenorth> it's just like ships 23:32:25 * Supercheese has ice in his object set 23:32:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Bad_Brett: modifying the pathfinder is simple 23:32:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Bad_Brett: but it gets very inefficient if almost all tiles get traversable 23:33:16 <Bad_Brett> Hmm 23:33:30 <andythenorth> just do 'go in the general direction of x' 23:33:31 <Bad_Brett> but... if a vechicle traveled at 2x the speed on roads 23:33:39 <andythenorth> and hope you don't get a peninsula :P 23:33:58 <andythenorth> 'go anywhere' vehicles _might_ have some issues :P 23:34:19 <Supercheese> modifying aircraft height would be easier 23:34:21 <andythenorth> also...does it add to gameplay? o_O 23:34:27 <Supercheese> new property, fly at XX height 23:34:50 <Supercheese> if you want some eyecandy, code a bird as an aircraft, set it to fly very low 23:35:00 <Supercheese> change a heliport to look like a building or something 23:35:08 <Supercheese> have the birds fly between buildings 23:35:10 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: "go anywhere" is planes, which have no pathfinder at all, they just go straight until they arrive. there can never be anything blocking them 23:35:20 <Supercheese> Carrier pigeons 23:35:24 <Supercheese> 1 bag of mail 23:35:29 <Supercheese> Wheeeeee 23:35:30 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: fair point 23:35:32 <Bad_Brett> haha 23:35:35 <andythenorth> is it bed time? 23:35:37 <Bad_Brett> new Supercheese grf? 23:35:50 <Supercheese> there'd have to be a patch first ;) 23:36:19 <andythenorth> can someone draw ships while I sleep, thanks 23:36:19 <Supercheese> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigeon_post 23:36:20 <Pikka> probably 23:36:23 <andythenorth> let me know when it's done 23:36:26 *** pandatrax [~pandatrax@0001b19b.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:36:28 <andythenorth> oooh Pikkas 23:36:32 <Pikka> are there 23:36:32 <andythenorth> hello pikkas 23:36:36 <Pikka> goodnight andy 23:36:39 *** andythenorth is now known as pikkas 23:36:51 <pikkas> bye bye bye Pikka 23:36:56 *** pikkas is now known as bedtime 23:37:06 * bedtime has to go to bed for beauty sleep 23:37:22 <bedtime> and to prepare for being kicked in the head at 05.45 by a 15 month old boy 23:37:35 *** bedtime is now known as andythebed 23:37:43 <andythebed> Pikka: is your industry set done yet? 23:37:50 <Pikka> pretty much 23:37:55 <andythebed> good work that man 23:37:59 <andythebed> have a medal 23:37:59 *** chillcore [589343ca@ircip1.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 23:38:09 <jonty-comp> why would you put a 15 month old boy in line with your head 23:38:14 <jonty-comp> that's just bad planning 23:38:25 <chillcore> hello all 23:38:27 <andythebed> he is somewhat mobile 23:38:41 <FLHerne> jonty-comp: Oh, same TV show? 23:38:53 <andythebed> he starts out in a cot 23:39:01 <chillcore> »» 23:14:55 < Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: there are plenty discussions in the more heightlevels topic, i think 23:39:01 <andythebed> and in the morning he is kicking me in the head 23:39:07 <chillcore> »» 23:15:17 < frosch123> likely, but that topic is so long that it is hard to find the interesting posts 23:39:10 <andythebed> and my wife mentions something about not getting much sleep 23:39:33 <jonty-comp> the solution to that is just to get a nice lid for said cot 23:39:40 <andythebed> Pikka: is tomorrow a newgrf day? 23:39:44 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: frosch123 doesn't read threads with more than 10 posts, we established that earlier :p 23:39:47 <jonty-comp> FLHerne: whowhat 23:39:48 <Pikka> unlikely 23:39:51 <chillcore> I was just lurking ... have alook here ... http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=61570 ;) 23:39:52 <Pikka> but we shall see :) 23:39:58 <andythebed> we could delete more things 23:40:03 <andythebed> then it will all soon be done 23:40:08 <Pikka> yes 23:40:12 <chillcore> - 10 hehe 23:40:34 <FLHerne> jonty-comp: Nope, just random coincidence then... 23:40:43 <andythebed> -10cc 23:40:46 <oskari892> More height levels is definately a patch that should be pushed forward towards trunk :) 23:40:52 <andythebed> hmm 23:40:52 <jonty-comp> today is full of odd coincidences 23:41:00 <jonty-comp> i blame the pope 23:41:10 <andythebed> a newgrf that just turns off some default vehicles? o_o 23:41:11 <chillcore> Eddi|zuHause: FLHerne ... should not be much effort to update 23:41:21 <andythebed> I blame meteors 23:41:38 <chillcore> exuse me frosch123 23:41:54 <FLHerne> chillcore: To update what? 23:42:06 <FLHerne> Sorry, tired and non-context-aware :P 23:42:15 <Supercheese> Hah, I even posted in that thread 23:42:25 <frosch123> ah ,yeah, i should probably add that to my bookmarks then :) 23:42:28 <Supercheese> saying basically the same thing :P 23:42:49 <chillcore> that patch that is relevant to the the discussion I quoted just aliitle while ago FLHerne 23:43:12 <jonty-comp> i believe i shall also go to bed, provided my housemate doesn't start snoring again 23:43:12 <chillcore> I highlighted you by accident sorry 23:43:20 <FLHerne> Oh, scrollback-reading will be required then :-) 23:44:02 *** andythebed [~Andy@cpc23-aztw25-2-0-cust33.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythebed] 23:45:37 <FLHerne> MHL does seem easy to update, in fact 23:46:12 <FLHerne> You seem to have accidentally highlighted me in a discussion I happen to find interesting :P 23:46:50 <oskari892> I have an idea to BaNaNaS 23:47:27 <oskari892> Could someone code "preview" button to that, so one could have a brief look at it from few screenshots or so? 23:47:42 <oskari892> From various NewGRF:s 23:47:52 <chillcore> Magic ... FLHerne ;) 23:48:41 <FLHerne> Or possibly it was deliberate, and I'm suffering from a lack of sarcasm-awaeness as well as context? 23:49:12 <Supercheese> currently the clickable URL does that, often linking to forum threads with screenshots 23:49:38 <Supercheese> not an in-game screen viewer, but similar functionality 23:49:55 <oskari892> Even more direct wayt with in-game screen viewer? 23:50:00 <oskari892> *way 23:50:38 <Supercheese> Well, someone could write A Patch for That⢠23:50:57 <Supercheese> the typical answer :P 23:53:13 <Eddi|zuHause> oskari892: most often it's requested that heightmaps or scenarios show a preview 23:53:32 <Pikka> oskari892: bananas is a content distribution system 23:53:44 <Pikka> it is not in any way a content review, preview, or finding system 23:53:56 <Pikka> and that's the way it should stay imo 23:58:00 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-155-168-176.range81-155.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:59:36 <Zuu> Well, some days/weeks ago I realized another use case for click-on-string. Allow clicking on tags in the bananas window to add a tag to the search filter. However, I need to get it done first. :-) 23:59:44 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:46 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd