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00:17:16 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 00:17:28 *** MINM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 00:20:02 *** MNIM [~mBuntu@ip5452ffad.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [] 00:34:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D234.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 00:37:26 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-012-171.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:40:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A154.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:52:05 *** DabuYu [DoubleYou@128.250.79.246] has joined #openttd 01:29:03 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:30:15 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-133-76.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:46:39 <Supercheese> "if they haven't died, they still live today" sounds like a meaningless truism 01:47:10 *** montalvo [~montalvo@macbook60.icrar.org] has joined #openttd 02:12:39 *** montalvo is now known as secretname 02:18:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 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xT2 [~ST2@bl6-255-75.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:30 *** ST2 [~ST2@bl6-255-75.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 09:59:40 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-133-76.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:00:58 *** montalvo [~montalvo@macbook60.icrar.org] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 10:08:30 *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:21:52 <KenjiE20> o.O official TT on mobile O.o 10:22:09 <__ln__> hwat? 10:22:20 <KenjiE20> that was my reaction 10:22:22 <Xaroth|Work> I doubt there's anything 'official' about it 10:22:35 <planetmaker> read tt-f? 10:22:36 <Xaroth|Work> unless it's posted on openttd.org ;) 10:22:48 <KenjiE20> Xaroth|Work: it's not OpenTTD, its TT 10:22:50 <planetmaker> (not openttd. ttd) 10:22:55 <KenjiE20> http://www.transporttycoon.com/ 10:23:00 <Xaroth|Work> ah 10:23:08 <Xaroth|Work> meh 10:23:31 <andythenorth> how interesting 10:23:39 <andythenorth> wonder if he'll support newgrf? :P 10:24:05 <andythenorth> "at last, after many years, TT on an iPad" 10:24:07 <andythenorth> :P 10:25:32 <zeknurn> Hopefully they will release it for Windows as well 10:26:08 <zeknurn> I'd buy a touch optimised version of TT. 10:27:30 <planetmaker> you have a quite improved version for windows ;-) 10:27:48 <planetmaker> if you think it's worth money, you should donate then 10:29:00 <peter1139> problem is 10:29:05 <peter1139> it sucks on small devices 10:29:14 <planetmaker> windows and small devices? 10:29:26 <Xaroth|Work> s/small// 10:29:27 <peter1139> Arriving 2013 on iOS and Android platforms 10:29:36 <peter1139> of course there are tablets, but 10:29:37 <andythenorth> stupid iPad is not small :P 10:29:57 * andythenorth has the less stupid, smaller iPad 10:30:09 <peter1139> http://geology.com/rocks/pictures/slate-school.jpg 10:30:11 <andythenorth> no point having a device that is both large *and* a crippled computer 10:30:14 <peter1139> that's my idea of an ipad 10:30:27 <planetmaker> :-) 10:30:32 <andythenorth> if I'm going to have a crippled computer, I want a smallish one 10:30:46 <planetmaker> buy an iphone? 10:30:50 <andythenorth> too small 10:30:52 <andythenorth> annoying 10:30:53 <andythenorth> got one 10:30:59 <__ln__> but i thought ipad and android do not run x86 machine code. 10:31:03 <andythenorth> nice weather app on iPhone though 10:31:09 <andythenorth> and it makes phone calls sometimes 10:31:34 <KenjiE20> you can talk to people on a phone? who knew? 10:31:36 <__ln__> and x86 assembly is the language that Sawyer codes his games in. 10:32:04 <andythenorth> KenjiE20: on my phone, only if you buy bumpers so it can get a signal... 10:32:17 <KenjiE20> hah 10:35:32 <zeknurn> planetmaker. I'd rather have a version that's built ground up for touch on a tablet. Also if it sells enough it could encourage Sawyer to return to making tycoon games. 10:35:42 <andythenorth> that's bad for us :P 10:35:51 <andythenorth> incentives lawyers :( 10:35:56 <andythenorth> incentivises * 10:36:17 <planetmaker> obviously someone finally found the copyright holder for those games again 10:36:35 <planetmaker> when some people asked no-one seems to recall or find themselves in the position to say "I hold the copyright" 10:36:52 <zeknurn> usually the case with left for dead ips 10:37:20 <zeknurn> I guess Sawyer bought it 10:37:32 <KenjiE20> well since atari went all weird, I guess sawyer claimed it back? 10:38:44 <zeknurn> Yeah, Atari US has been selling of IPs since they went bankrupt. 10:38:44 <planetmaker> I specifically looked. I didn't see TT(D) up for sale. But possibly still, yes 10:39:05 <KenjiE20> he could've gone direct 10:39:52 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 10:40:13 <__ln__> maybe he has just acquired the trademark, and the trademark owner was always known. the game itself must be a rewrite in any case. 10:40:25 <planetmaker> btw, andythenorth I attached to FISH an updated makefile patch for you to test 10:40:32 <andythenorth> oh thanks :) 10:40:56 <planetmaker> I want to make a bit cleanup before comitting, but... test before :-) 10:41:24 <V453000> fish will go purr 10:42:37 <planetmaker> it gave me the idea how to make it modular with plug-in capability without actually ripping the Makefile into many parts :-) 10:42:55 <andythenorth> no longer runs nml twice :) 10:43:05 <planetmaker> yes :-9 10:43:31 <andythenorth> hmm 10:43:33 <andythenorth> I ran make clean 10:43:39 <andythenorth> now it can't find fish.nml :) 10:43:50 <andythenorth> so maybe another round? :) 10:43:53 <Xaroth|Work> rm -rf / 10:43:54 <Xaroth|Work> :P 10:44:47 <planetmaker> hm... 10:47:28 <planetmaker> ah 10:48:40 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.hdsnet.hu] has joined #openttd 10:50:23 <planetmaker> hm, shouldn't a call to build_fish.py generate fish.nml? 10:50:27 <planetmaker> why doesn't it? 10:51:35 <Eddi|zuHause> <V453000> fish will go purr <-- is that like "all pigs will fly up"? 10:52:12 <Eddi|zuHause> (is that game even known anywhere else?) 10:53:54 <planetmaker> I see... I bugged it 10:54:50 <planetmaker> andythenorth, in scripts/render_nml.py undo the path change I applied in line 26 10:55:25 <andythenorth> oh :) 10:55:28 <andythenorth> I see 10:57:01 <V453000> Anything can happen Eddi 10:57:10 <V453000> but I dont know flying pigs yet 10:57:40 <andythenorth> planetmaker: seems to work 10:57:57 <planetmaker> sweet. Then I'll tidy Makefile.config and commit 10:58:21 <Eddi|zuHause> (the game goes like this: a bunch of kids sit around the table, and everyone slaps their hands on the table. the leader of the game, usually a parent or teacher, will shout out the phrase "All <x> fly up" and puts his hands in the air. if <x> is actually able to fly, everyone must also put their hands in the air.) 10:58:56 <V453000> omg :) how much alcohol is needed? 10:59:01 <V453000> do the rules state that? 10:59:19 <Eddi|zuHause> only if you're an adult which is not a parent :p 10:59:38 <V453000> works 11:01:00 *** ntoskrnl11 [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:01:06 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.kleinemarie.de/spielen/6/alle-schweine-fliegen-hoch <-- does not state anything about alcohol, though :p 11:01:31 <Eddi|zuHause> "1 Table, many hands, quick responses" 11:01:58 <V453000> I can only assume that alcohol is the default and does not need to be mentioned 11:02:00 <V453000> thus isnt 11:02:05 <andythenorth> planetmaker: poke me when I should pull :) 11:02:41 <V453000> OR the page is strongly alternative and obsesses with uncommon game practice without alcohol 11:02:45 <V453000> which would be weird but you never know 11:05:10 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: the point of the game is the humiliation if you put your hands up at the wrong time (or less commonly: if you don't put your hands up) .p 11:05:42 <V453000> of course, so you would e.g. have to humiliately drink a beer as a punishment 11:05:56 <planetmaker> andythenorth, pull 11:06:45 <andythenorth> 7s faster now 11:06:52 <andythenorth> and I don't have to run make clean every time 11:07:17 <andythenorth> great 11:07:41 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:07:57 <andythenorth> planetmaker: next thing... src/FISH.cfg is deprecated :) So I want to change makefile.in to ignore it 11:08:09 <andythenorth> ignore / use something more appropriate 11:10:17 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't we already discuss that? 11:10:48 <Eddi|zuHause> just remove it from the dependencies 11:11:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and instead put all .py files into the GENERATE= line 11:11:38 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:11:47 <andythenorth> why wasn't that necessary for FIRS? 11:11:55 <andythenorth> FIRS uses a phony target 11:12:37 <Eddi|zuHause> FIRS took the easy way out, to redo everything every time 11:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's ... phony :p 11:13:33 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i wanted to dig out my python stuff to see if one easily can make a "pydep.py" out of it :) 11:13:49 <andythenorth> scan files in recursive dirs? 11:13:54 <andythenorth> store to a file? 11:14:00 <andythenorth> or something better? 11:14:10 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 11:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause> parse file -> search all "Import" nodes, see if that matches a file/package, output a dep line, recurse 11:14:48 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, FISH does that, too, now. basically 11:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause> about 30LOC estimated 11:15:38 <andythenorth> try it for FISH :) 11:15:43 <andythenorth> it's a nice simple repo :) 11:15:52 <V453000> loc loc locomotive :> 11:16:01 <V453000> no code 11:16:23 <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes, just like eddi said: remove it from dependencies in Makefile.in 11:16:35 <planetmaker> and possibly replace it by a list of appropriate files 11:16:43 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 11:16:54 <planetmaker> alternatively, replace it by a phony, but empty target 11:16:59 <planetmaker> then it re-builds everytime 11:17:13 <planetmaker> for instance the target could be "pnml" without quotes 11:17:19 <andythenorth> fish-nml: $(GENERATE) appears to work? 11:17:22 <planetmaker> as that already exists and does nothing 11:17:55 <planetmaker> I fear it won't re-generate, if you change source but not src/build_fish.py 11:18:09 <andythenorth> probably not without a make clean 11:18:18 <planetmaker> thus: add an empty, phony target 11:18:24 <andythenorth> hmm 11:18:28 <andythenorth> does seem to work with just make 11:19:22 <planetmaker> or... simply remove $(GENERATE) from that line, too 11:19:28 <planetmaker> that's better even 11:19:53 *** ntoskrnl11 [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:19:54 <planetmaker> so that line 8 simply reads 11:19:57 <planetmaker> fish-nml: 11:20:04 <andythenorth> done 11:20:08 * andythenorth tests 11:20:19 <planetmaker> unconditional re-build 11:20:29 <andythenorth> seems to work 11:20:48 <planetmaker> if build time is too long, the unconditional could be changed to re-build only what is needed. But... meh 11:20:54 <andythenorth> it's not long 11:20:59 <andythenorth> so not today's problem :) 11:21:07 <planetmaker> it needs anyway compiling the whole NewGRF. Thus I consider that pointless in most cases 11:21:14 <planetmaker> Which does not warrant complications today 11:21:57 <planetmaker> with eddi's partial compilation on CETS that's a different issue :-) 11:23:41 <andythenorth> herp 11:23:49 * andythenorth just enabled chameleon templating cache 11:23:54 <andythenorth> cuts 4s off the python step 11:23:59 <planetmaker> :-) 11:24:07 <planetmaker> from how many in total? 11:24:16 <andythenorth> 10s or so 11:24:21 <planetmaker> nice gain 11:24:22 <Xaroth|Work> nice 11:24:24 <andythenorth> it's about 6-7s now to compile 11:24:54 <planetmaker> he... my total for FISH is user 0m5.112s 11:25:11 <andythenorth> let me commit this 11:27:21 <andythenorth> planetmaker: pull and try? 11:30:23 <planetmaker> trallala, I tested wrong repo before :D 0m7.604s without and 0m4.352s with caching. Nice 11:30:42 <andythenorth> it's fast enough 11:31:01 <andythenorth> python step is 0.2s with the caching 11:31:07 <andythenorth> I could make it faster with multiprocessing 11:31:15 <andythenorth> but meh, nml uses the rest of the time :) 11:32:46 <planetmaker> nml should use multi-processing 11:32:58 <planetmaker> wonder whether it does :-) 11:33:04 <planetmaker> (and can) 11:33:17 <andythenorth> *if* the slow step is parsing the varaction 2 ids, then it won't help afaik 11:33:24 <andythenorth> assuming that is what makes it slow 11:33:35 <planetmaker> that's what I assume, too, yes 11:33:38 <andythenorth> I have no idea who profiled it to find that out though :) 11:34:05 <planetmaker> *if* anyone did 11:34:16 <planetmaker> though definitely yexo and hirundo did some profiling 11:44:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D234.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:46:15 <andythenorth> hmm 11:46:46 <andythenorth> wonder if I could hack my own nasty linker for FIRS 11:47:52 <planetmaker> what you want to link there? 11:47:57 <andythenorth> partial compiles 11:48:03 <andythenorth> compile per-industry 11:48:07 <andythenorth> then concatenate 11:48:21 <andythenorth> it's a crappy idea 11:48:40 <planetmaker> yes. and no. Depends ;-) 11:49:40 <planetmaker> preferentially that should go in NML, I think 11:49:46 <andythenorth> I am thinking that too 11:50:07 <planetmaker> it's also python. Feel free to give it a stab 11:50:36 <andythenorth> I wonder if it is too hard for nml? 11:50:53 <andythenorth> how does nml know what can safely be isolated, except by scanning entire file? 11:51:06 <andythenorth> whereas makefile or build script for a project can know that safely 11:52:17 <planetmaker> you could introduce syntax to indicate that. Would be a valid requirement 11:53:51 <andythenorth> oh, that's a point 11:53:54 <andythenorth> safe breaks 12:09:35 *** Tom_Soft [~id@176.56.174.34] has joined #openttd 12:10:12 *** Tom_Soft [~id@176.56.174.34] has quit [] 12:18:29 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:26:38 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:43:43 *** kais58|A1K is now known as kais58__4 13:00:07 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 13:02:56 <andythenorth> meh 13:03:03 <andythenorth> carbon monoxide alarm is going off here 13:03:09 <andythenorth> borng 13:05:45 <Belugas> hello 13:06:43 <Eddi|zuHause> if you can't smell it, it can't be dangerous :p 13:09:14 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 13:12:22 *** Ristovski [~rafael@ppp-seco11pa2-46-193-128.78.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #openttd 13:14:19 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15:52 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 13:16:20 <Zuu> Hmm... tt-forums seems to be down 13:16:53 <Elukka> https://www.dropbox.com/s/takvqbsimi3sm1y/ttd.png 13:16:55 <Elukka> more tracks more better 13:16:56 *** lobster [~lobster@glosoli.owenrudge.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:06 *** lobster [~lobster@glosoli.owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 13:18:00 <Eddi|zuHause> so why is this wirdly rescaled instead of a plain screenshot? 13:18:33 <Eddi|zuHause> besides of wasting bandwidth because the file gets 4 times larger, this is also unreadable 13:18:51 <Elukka> it's just a 2x zoom 13:19:06 <Elukka> you have to click it or you get dropbox's additionally rescaled blurry version 13:19:10 <Elukka> which sucks, but what can you do 13:19:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't click on it 13:19:26 <Elukka> weird 13:19:39 <Elukka> nothing i can do about dropbox rescaling it unfortunately 13:19:44 <Elukka> photobucket does the same except you can't get the real version 13:20:43 <Xaroth|Work> then use imgur 13:20:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you're not using it correctly... 13:21:04 <Eddi|zuHause> obviously dropbox must have ways to provide unaltered binary files 13:34:37 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:42:59 <Elukka> well, it's clickable for others apparently 13:45:52 <Elukka> can't really see an issue with 'wasting bandwidth'... if that was a concern it'd make sense not to click image links 13:46:11 <Elukka> interestingly though i haven't found a very good image format for sharp pixel graphics like openttd's 13:46:19 <Elukka> jpg is terribly artifacty, png is huge 13:46:31 <Xaroth|Work> png works just fine for openttd screenshots 13:47:22 <Xaroth|Work> but as i said, try uploading it to something like imgur 13:47:32 <Xaroth|Work> that should give you a rather intact image 13:48:07 <Elukka> my only beef with imgur is that you apparently can't have subalbums 13:48:11 <Elukka> guess i should make an account anyway 13:48:16 <Elukka> usually i use it for thoraway images 13:49:15 <Elukka> *throwaway 13:50:18 <Elukka> png works but it doesn't feel ideal 13:50:28 <Elukka> might not be a better way to complex pixel art now that i think about it 13:51:03 <Elukka> for more complex graphics, or photos, jpg gets the file size for a largeish screenshot down to 200ish kb with no real loss in quality 13:51:25 <Elukka> for something with sharp edges and limited complexity png is about the same size or even smaller and obviously has no artifacts 13:52:06 <Elukka> a fullscreen openttd screenshot in png will be about 1-2 mb though 13:52:16 <Eddi|zuHause> only if you use 32bpp 13:55:03 <planetmaker> @calc 1920*1200*8 / 1024/1024 13:55:03 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 17.578125 13:55:21 <planetmaker> why *8? 13:55:56 <planetmaker> add the zlib compression intrinsic to png it will be smaller than 17.5/8 13:57:26 *** MatrixCL [~mielipuol@host-109-204-157-114.tp-fne.tampereenpuhelin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:57:59 *** Ristovski [~rafael@ppp-seco11pa2-46-193-128.78.wb.wifirst.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:03:06 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:24:51 *** y2000rtc [~y2000rtc@cst-prg-65-24.cust.vodafone.cz] has joined #openttd 14:25:31 <peter1139> 8? using 64bpp? 14:27:18 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 14:29:23 *** Polleke [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:32 *** y2000rtc [~y2000rtc@cst-prg-65-24.cust.vodafone.cz] has quit [] 15:29:01 *** permagreen [~donovan@204.195.27.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:34:28 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 15:38:39 *** permagreen [~donovan@204-195-27-175.wavecable.com] has joined #openttd 15:41:15 <Rubidium> https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/diff/Makefile?id=ad81f0545ef01ea651886dddac4bef6cec930092 <- nice one Linus! ;) 15:41:56 <Xaroth|Work> Linux for Workstation ? 15:42:10 <Xaroth|Work> workgroups, even 15:42:30 <Rubidium> guess you're too young to appreciate that pun 15:42:46 <Xaroth|Work> ... 15:42:56 <Xaroth|Work> I guess you assume a wee bit too much here 15:47:00 <peter1139> http://forums.scotsnewsletter.com/index.php?showtopic=47886 15:47:45 <peter1139> well, ignore that... just this http://www.linux.com/news/enterprise/biz-enterprise/485159-a-conversation-with-linus-torvalds 15:48:52 <peter1139> meh 16:05:56 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 16:06:11 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-165-35-135.range86-165.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 16:07:00 <LordAro> evening gents 16:08:04 <LordAro> i assume you've already seen this? http://www.transporttycoon.com/ (the current content ;) ) 16:14:04 <planetmaker> yes. And hi LordAro 16:14:17 <LordAro> hi planetmaker :) 16:26:18 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 16:32:01 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:32:01 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:36:37 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:36:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 16:47:27 *** SamanthaD [~SamanthaD@c-98-248-25-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 16:47:34 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00b388.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:48:13 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1972C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:13:19 <andythenorth> python: any equivalent to get() for object props? 17:13:27 <andythenorth> I could use hasattr, but that's ugly in this context 17:16:22 *** permagreen [~donovan@204-195-27-175.wavecable.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:06 *** permagreen [~donovan@204-195-27-175.wavecable.com] has joined #openttd 17:21:53 * andythenorth did search first :P 17:23:17 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 17:32:16 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387AB85.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:45:09 <andythenorth> nvm 17:45:16 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25613 trunk/src/lang/german.txt (2013-07-15 17:45:08 UTC) 17:45:16 <andythenorth> refactored to deal with it 17:45:17 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:18 <DorpsGek> german - 5 changes by Jogio 17:53:51 <frosch123> how to tell you are in the year 2013? 17:54:10 <frosch123> online shops cannot handle umlauts in shipping addresses 17:54:31 <Rubidium> they're probably still using Windows for Workgroups 17:54:43 <Kjetil> Linux for Workgroups you mean :P 17:54:59 <frosch123> i am sure linux for workgroups can handle unicode quite well 17:55:02 <Rubidium> Kjetil: no, because that can generally handle those things quite effortlessly 17:55:29 <Kjetil> *writes a patch to break the support for win 3.11 compatability* 17:56:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:58:36 <LordAro> :O 18:02:50 *** flaa [~flaa@89.100.79.103] has joined #openttd 18:03:11 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-133-76.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 18:05:28 *** MatrixCL [~mielipuol@host-109-204-157-114.tp-fne.tampereenpuhelin.net] has joined #openttd 18:17:47 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 18:19:33 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25614 /trunk/src/script/api (3 files in 3 dirs) (2013-07-15 18:19:26 UTC) 18:19:34 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5651]: [Script] Give a slightly less generic error when removing inexisting rail 18:19:35 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5650]: [Script] Be more specific that a non-NewGRF station can be built when asking for a NewGRF station 18:27:49 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:31:25 <Xaroth|Work> http://i.imgur.com/vyH4aiS.png 18:37:26 <LordAro> hullo, fellow redditor :) 18:41:01 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:42:07 <planetmaker> hm... too repetitive? http://imagebin.org/264634 / http://imagebin.org/264635 ? 18:43:07 <V453000> I give up on commenting landscape sprites because I know how much hell it is to make them look nice 18:43:27 <V453000> but I think it looks quite good 18:43:39 <V453000> the grid version should probably have the grid a lot less visible though 18:44:43 *** roadt_ [~roadt@60.168.89.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:44:44 <planetmaker> Please feel free to also comment more. This is just 30 minutes of copy & paste and 30 minutes of compiling the grf :D 18:45:22 <planetmaker> Just grabbed Wesnoth's desert sprite, rotated and skewed it. That's it 18:45:59 <Rubidium> the while one definitely is too repetitive ;) 18:46:04 <Rubidium> s/l/t/ 18:46:08 <planetmaker> hehe, yeah :-) 18:46:09 <V453000> I would try to remove the dark dot 18:46:57 <planetmaker> hm, I see. Yeah... that might be too much 18:47:12 <andythenorth> planetmaker: sprucing up ogfx? o_O 18:47:22 <planetmaker> eventually, maybe 18:47:33 <planetmaker> maybe also zBase 18:47:35 <planetmaker> who knows 18:47:36 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i think for the repetitiveness it has too much contrast 18:49:04 <V453000> yeah perhaps reducing that a little bit could help too 18:49:19 *** kais58__5 [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:50:36 *** flaa [~flaa@89.100.79.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:50:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it's less obvious with the grid, but then what V453000 said applies, the grid is too wide 18:50:48 <planetmaker> I think the contrast is not larger than others. But the location frequency is (much) lower 18:51:01 *** kais58__4 [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:09 *** Jam35 [~c35d1526@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 18:51:24 <planetmaker> the grid is not too wide. It's exactly the grid lines as found also now on all sprites. But drawn by the grid line patch ;-) 18:51:27 <V453000> grid is too obvious, both making it less wide, or less "opaque" would help 18:51:46 <V453000> if less wide is not the option, then less contrasty :P 18:51:53 <planetmaker> the gridline patch is slightly darker than current grid lines, though 18:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause> in the gridless version, you have too obvious vertical lines 18:52:58 *** Jam35 [~c35d1526@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has left #openttd [] 18:55:25 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: looks like white spice from opendune 18:55:33 <planetmaker> :-) 18:58:30 <planetmaker> hm, I should first design the terrain in 32bpp-file. Then copy the result to 8bpp file... easier 19:00:30 <andythenorth> python: multiple inheritance = bad? 19:00:34 <andythenorth> or unwise? 19:00:47 <Xaroth|Work> not per se 19:00:54 <Xaroth|Work> depends on what you're trying to do 19:01:01 <Rubidium> multiple inheritance is good for evolution 19:01:06 *** kais58__5 is now known as kais58|AFK 19:02:35 <Xaroth|Work> andythenorth: got a public repo somewhere perchance? 19:02:58 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/fish/repository/ 19:03:01 <andythenorth> has a few deps 19:08:06 *** flaa [~flaa@89.100.79.103] has joined #openttd 19:11:20 <Xaroth|Work> hrnf, hg 19:12:58 <Xaroth|Work> right, time to check it out 19:17:44 <andythenorth> hmm 19:17:51 * andythenorth might be reinventing mixins :( 19:17:53 <andythenorth> oops 19:17:55 <Xaroth|Work> hehe 19:18:03 <Xaroth|Work> chameleon as templating engine? 19:18:57 <andythenorth> fun eh? 19:19:11 <andythenorth> wrong tool, but I know how to use it 19:19:58 <Xaroth|Work> it looks absolutely horrible :P 19:20:04 * Xaroth|Work is used to django/jinja-style templating 19:20:38 <andythenorth> templating is templating :) 19:20:42 <Xaroth|Work> yep 19:21:34 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 19:21:37 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 19:21:58 <Alberth> hi hi 19:22:06 <LordAro> hai Alberth 19:22:13 <andythenorth> lo Alberth 19:26:05 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.hdsnet.hu] has quit [] 19:26:28 <Alberth> LordAro: next time, don't tell RCT2 runs under Wine, it's not good for other projects ;p 19:26:39 <LordAro> :D 19:27:32 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:27:36 <Alberth> although one weekend is probably enough for some time, the game is pretty simple :) 19:29:58 <andythenorth> Xaroth|Work: so does it build for you? o_O 19:30:59 <Xaroth|Work> andythenorth: not tried building it 19:31:02 <Xaroth|Work> rummaging through code 19:31:09 <andythenorth> ok 19:31:18 <andythenorth> it's midway through a tidy up :P 19:32:04 <andythenorth> removing lots of 'if foo == eggs: ham" stuff 19:32:16 <andythenorth> and replacing it with straightforward handler in subclass 19:34:15 <Alberth> isn't it lovely? so many ways to write the same thing, yet they are all slightly different :) 19:34:29 <Xaroth|Work> yep 19:34:33 <Xaroth|Work> something with standards 19:34:45 <Xaroth|Work> ( http://xkcd.com/927/ ) 19:35:06 <andythenorth> one and only one way :P 19:35:45 <Xaroth|Work> your render bit could use some OO love 19:37:31 <andythenorth> ¿ template = templates[(self.template)] 19:38:30 *** kais58|A1K [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 19:39:27 <Xaroth|Work> also, I personally don't prefer the notation you use for your ships.. another method could be to make it a class that inherits stuff like GeneralCargoVessel 19:39:43 <Eddi|zuHause> this should be a "standard" link :p 19:39:43 <andythenorth> which notation? o_O 19:40:02 <Xaroth|Work> src/ships/file 19:40:13 *** kais58|AFK [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:41:16 <andythenorth> hmm? 19:41:24 <andythenorth> so each ship is a class, instead of an instance of a class? 19:41:27 <Xaroth|Work> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2396/ 19:41:29 <Xaroth|Work> like so 19:41:36 <Xaroth|Work> that way you can have similar boats inherit from eachother 19:42:15 <andythenorth> interesting 19:42:20 <Alberth> looks like nml :p 19:42:23 <andythenorth> other than being easier to read, what is the gain? 19:42:29 <Xaroth|Work> inheritance 19:42:47 <andythenorth> also fewer commas :P 19:43:14 <Xaroth|Work> and you can use properties, though I doubt you'll need those 19:43:22 <Alberth> class large_saint_marie_barge_tug(saint_marie_barge_tug): capacity_cargo_holds = 1000 19:43:31 <Xaroth|Work> like that 19:43:41 <andythenorth> yeah ok 19:43:53 <andythenorth> that use case is probably overengineering tbh 19:43:59 <andythenorth> but I can see why you don't like the notation 19:44:04 <andythenorth> it looks odd now 19:44:13 <Xaroth|Work> well 19:44:18 <Xaroth|Work> now it's a giant function call 19:44:30 <Xaroth|Work> and passing 23 args to a single function 19:44:31 <Xaroth|Work> is awkwards 19:44:35 <Xaroth|Work> s/s// 19:44:54 <Alberth> 23 args is smelly :) 19:44:55 <andythenorth> hmm 19:45:01 <andythenorth> but the function is __init__ :P 19:45:01 <Xaroth|Work> also 19:45:04 <Xaroth|Work> you can apply mixins :) 19:45:34 <Xaroth|Work> apply specific rules for specific items 19:46:31 <Xaroth|Work> also, you can use tricks to register your ships in a central list/dict/whatever 19:46:37 <Xaroth|Work> like I do with libottdadmin2: https://github.com/Xaroth/libottdadmin2/blob/master/libottdadmin2/packets/admin.py 19:47:31 <andythenorth> which line? 19:47:40 <Xaroth|Work> 38, 42, 21 19:47:43 <Xaroth|Work> @send.packet :) 19:47:59 <Xaroth|Work> the magic is done here: https://github.com/Xaroth/libottdadmin2/blob/master/libottdadmin2/packets/registry.py 19:48:21 <Alberth> :o real magic :) 19:48:24 <Xaroth|Work> every packet marked with @receive.packet or @send.packet 19:48:36 <Xaroth|Work> is added to send/receive's _packets dict 19:48:41 <Xaroth|Work> which is indexed by their packetID 19:48:47 <Xaroth|Work> i can then use send[packetID] 19:48:49 <Xaroth|Work> to retreive it 19:48:59 <Xaroth|Work> (or, even, send[packetClass]) 19:50:06 <andythenorth> ok so how does the magic work? o_O 19:50:18 <andythenorth> we have a decorator? 19:50:26 <Xaroth|Work> everything can be a decorator 19:50:31 <Xaroth|Work> it's nothing more than a function being caleld 19:50:33 <Xaroth|Work> *called 19:51:07 <Xaroth|Work> PacketRegistry's packet(packetID, [klass]) gets called 19:51:14 <Xaroth|Work> there's 3 ways you can accomplish that 19:51:41 <Xaroth|Work> the if magic there shows what to do in each case 19:51:54 <Xaroth|Work> in fact, there's even a small bug in that :P 19:52:50 <Xaroth|Work> i can call @send.packet(1) before it 19:52:54 <Xaroth|Work> @send.packet before it 19:53:03 <Xaroth|Work> or @send.packet() (which has the bug) 19:53:18 <Xaroth|Work> or even send.packet(1, AdminJoin) 19:54:54 *** bertieb [~robert@87-194-186-154.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:55:33 <andythenorth> is this magic I should be using? 19:56:20 <Xaroth|Work> it's python 19:56:21 <Xaroth|Work> it's magic! 19:56:32 <andythenorth> I mean, would it improve FISH code? o_O 19:56:38 <andythenorth> and how do I do it? 19:58:46 <Xaroth|Work> well 19:58:50 <Xaroth|Work> it can replace Ship.register 20:00:06 <Xaroth|Work> also, get_X_speed can technically be replaced by properties 20:01:03 <Xaroth|Work> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2397/ 20:01:04 <Xaroth|Work> like that 20:01:40 <Xaroth|Work> same with a few more get_* 20:01:49 *** bertieb [~robert@87-194-186-154.bethere.co.uk] has left #openttd [] 20:02:44 *** TomyLobo2 [~foo@91-65-210-133-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 20:03:14 *** Extrems1 [borgs@24.157.137.219] has joined #openttd 20:03:45 *** MatrixCL2 [~mielipuol@host-109-204-157-114.tp-fne.tampereenpuhelin.net] has joined #openttd 20:03:51 *** andythenorth_ [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 20:04:05 <Xaroth|Work> then again, you can use 0.8 if self.sea_capable else 1.0 20:04:10 <Xaroth|Work> instead of using a tuple 20:04:37 <andythenorth_> someone taught me that odd tuple method once 20:04:40 *** TrueBrain_ [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 20:04:43 <Xaroth|Work> it's odd indeed 20:04:44 <andythenorth_> and it's stuck with me ever since 20:05:02 <Xaroth|Work> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2398/ 20:05:11 <Xaroth|Work> that explains much more what's happening 20:05:53 *** lugo- [lugo@apple.bnc4free.com] has joined #openttd 20:05:55 <andythenorth_> ach, I've just removed the function def entirely 20:05:58 <andythenorth_> redundant :) 20:06:05 <andythenorth_> don't know why I did it ;) 20:06:09 <Xaroth|Work> heh 20:06:21 <andythenorth_> premature handling of unknown future case probly 20:06:26 <Xaroth|Work> heh 20:06:39 *** Netsplit reticulum.oftc.net <-> oxygen.oftc.net quits: TomyLobo, @planetmaker, henrik, wolfmitchell, Progman, ntx, MatrixCL, dfox, TrueBrain, Extrems, (+3 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 20:06:39 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 20:06:39 *** TomyLobo2 is now known as TomyLobo 20:06:54 *** Netsplit over, joins: henrik, ntx 20:08:03 <andythenorth> so if every ship gets its own class... 20:08:11 <Xaroth|Work> you can do magics :) 20:08:13 <andythenorth> where would I create an instance of that class? 20:08:35 <Xaroth|Work> well, in my case, my decorator does that for me 20:08:58 <Xaroth|Work> that way i introduce a tiny bit of extra magic in a decorator 20:09:12 <andythenorth> ok, so that makes sense 20:09:26 <Xaroth|Work> and don't have to add instantiation to every file 20:09:28 <andythenorth> I don't like ship = ClassName(Ship) args 20:09:29 *** wolfmitchell [~wolfmitch@znc.wolfmitchell.com] has joined #openttd 20:09:43 <andythenorth> or whatever it is I have 20:09:54 <andythenorth> ship = ClassName(args) 20:09:54 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 20:09:57 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 20:10:29 <Xaroth|Work> also, since we're nitpicking 20:10:38 <Xaroth|Work> you have .ship and .ships.<stuff> 20:10:42 <andythenorth> yes 20:10:50 <Xaroth|Work> the base classes from .ship should really be with .ships 20:11:06 <Xaroth|Work> i tend to use .module.base for that 20:11:11 <andythenorth> makes sense 20:11:23 <andythenorth> dep for package should travel in package? 20:11:24 <Xaroth|Work> then i can use from .base import <base class> 20:11:28 <Xaroth|Work> :) 20:11:54 <andythenorth> from .base import Belong 20:12:03 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:12:05 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 20:12:05 <Xaroth|Work> well it's not logical, if you want to change the base ships property you should be looking in the ships module 20:12:27 <Xaroth|Work> not somewhere between the rest of the stuff 20:13:55 * andythenorth experiments 20:14:34 <andythenorth> I suppose __base__ is all wrong? 20:14:51 <andythenorth> puts it at the top of my file browser hierarchy :P 20:14:55 <Xaroth|Work> underscore files are for pyhon builtin magic, usually 20:15:36 <andythenorth> I could just declare all the base stuff in the init for the module? 20:15:39 <andythenorth> I've done that before :P 20:15:48 <Xaroth|Work> also, not really relevant if you move to classes for ships, but your Ship.__init__ code can technically be reduced to 5-6-ish lines :) 20:15:51 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:15:54 <Xaroth|Work> er, no 20:15:57 <Xaroth|Work> for a simple reason 20:16:02 <Xaroth|Work> you want to import all your ships in __init__ 20:16:27 <Xaroth|Work> 1) you can then do: from ships import * 20:16:47 <Xaroth|Work> 2) when you do that, -all- your ships get loaded, decorators get run,e tc 20:16:54 <andythenorth> nah 20:17:00 <andythenorth> well maybe 20:17:02 <Xaroth|Work> and when you add your base class in __ini__ 20:17:05 <Xaroth|Work> er, init* 20:17:11 <Xaroth|Work> you can't do from ships import baseclass 20:17:18 <Xaroth|Work> because that would lead to circular imports 20:17:18 *** dfox [~dfox@178.248.252.207] has joined #openttd 20:17:33 <Xaroth|Work> (init wanting to load the ship, ship wanting to load init) 20:17:41 *** permagreen [~donovan@204.195.27.175] has joined #openttd 20:18:13 <Xaroth|Work> (also, it looks nicer: from ships import altamira_freighter vs from ships.altamira_freighter import altamira_freighter ) 20:18:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1972C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 20:18:58 <andythenorth> you prefer the second method? 20:19:02 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:08 <Xaroth|Work> I prefer from ships import altamira_freighter 20:19:22 <andythenorth> +1 20:19:36 <Xaroth|Work> in ships.__init__ i'd then have: from .altamira_freighter import altamira_freighter 20:19:40 <Xaroth|Work> ugly once, but still 20:19:44 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 20:19:59 <andythenorth> I am unconvinced about making each ship its own class 20:20:02 <andythenorth> seems like a class too far 20:20:12 <andythenorth> I think they're instances 20:20:35 <Xaroth|Work> what if you want to have a ship that doesn't stick to inland/sea speeds ? 20:20:43 <Xaroth|Work> now your only 2 options are yes/no 20:20:49 <Xaroth|Work> if you have a class 20:20:52 <Xaroth|Work> you can overload the property 20:20:58 <Xaroth|Work> do your own magic just for that ship 20:21:04 <Alberth> make a new class for that type of ship 20:21:12 <andythenorth> well 20:21:18 <andythenorth> cherry-picking use cases is hard :) 20:21:27 <andythenorth> that particular one is not a valid case 20:21:31 <andythenorth> as spec doesn't allow it 20:22:39 <Xaroth|Work> also, a -lot- of your ships have the same values for a fair few properties 20:23:57 <andythenorth> yes 20:31:09 *** SamanthaD [~SamanthaD@c-98-248-25-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:31:53 <andythenorth> wtf were those extra () chars doing in render() function? :P 20:31:56 * andythenorth removes those 20:32:02 <andythenorth> template = templates[(self.template)] 20:32:11 <Xaroth|Work> no clue 20:32:46 <andythenorth> it used to be a more complicated statement 20:32:50 <andythenorth> I missed them when refactoring 20:34:27 <andythenorth> ok so I see how making each ship its own class reduces the __init__ in Ship 20:34:39 <andythenorth> and avoids passing around 1 bazillion args in **kwargs 20:34:43 <Xaroth|Work> ;) 20:35:06 <andythenorth> I'm not sure about magic for registration 20:35:13 <andythenorth> magic is *usually* bad 20:35:38 <Alberth> make a few base classes with sane defaults, and instantiate + modify them for a specific ship? 20:36:10 <andythenorth> may 20:36:15 <andythenorth> maybe * 20:36:27 <Alberth> you can also have some code that computes some values at the end 20:37:00 <andythenorth> I'd have class -> subclass -> subclass -> instance 20:37:01 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@46.208.2.126] has joined #openttd 20:37:06 <andythenorth> which seems overkill for 30 ships in a newgrf? 20:37:38 <andythenorth> duck tape (sic) seems appropriate for templating newgrfs? 20:38:23 <Alberth> extreme solutions are rarely the optimum 20:38:51 <andythenorth> this would be more sensible if I'd subclassed from day 0 20:39:12 <andythenorth> right now, I'm grafting subclasses in to sanitise a lot of messy if / else crap 20:39:49 <Alberth> that seems like a good reason 20:40:12 <Xaroth|Work> I'd come out as a base class like such: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2399/ 20:40:30 <Xaroth|Work> er, missed removing a line 20:40:33 <Alberth> and quite likely you'll end up at a different point due to the history, but that's fine, many solutions are good 20:40:58 <andythenorth> Xaroth|Work: I'd probably just remove all "foo = None" declarations 20:41:45 <andythenorth> I can see it's a kind of documentation this way :P 20:42:02 <Xaroth|Work> well, it's your base class now 20:42:05 <Xaroth|Work> so it should have it 20:42:10 <Xaroth|Work> unless it's ship-specific 20:42:37 <andythenorth> nah these are all generic props 20:43:13 <andythenorth> so the @property decorator just makes a method callable without ()? 20:43:19 <andythenorth> fake property 20:43:37 <Xaroth|Work> yeh 20:43:47 <Xaroth|Work> property decorator :) 20:44:01 <Xaroth|Work> you can also do x = property(fget, fset, fdel, fdoc) 20:44:17 <Xaroth|Work> where fget/set/del/doc are the getter, setter, deleter and the func-doc 20:44:30 <Xaroth|Work> or you can do @property <func> 20:44:34 <Xaroth|Work> then @funcname.setter 20:44:39 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 20:44:57 <andythenorth> I can cut all the get_ crap as well 20:45:01 <Xaroth|Work> :) :) 20:45:05 <Xaroth|Work> hence why i said 20:45:13 <andythenorth> just reminds me to call it when writing the templates 20:45:14 <Xaroth|Work> get_* with no params can usually be done in a property 20:46:07 <Xaroth|Work> also 20:46:13 <Xaroth|Work> if you set a class property to something 20:46:18 <Xaroth|Work> all class instances will have that by default 20:46:28 <Xaroth|Work> keep in mind with mutable objects, like list/tuple/dict 20:46:31 <andythenorth> yeah that much is obvious :) 20:46:40 <andythenorth> been there done that 20:46:46 <Xaroth|Work> it's like putting a list/tuple as a default arg for a function 20:46:52 <andythenorth> deep vs. shallow copy was a suprising lesson last year :P 20:46:56 <Xaroth|Work> hehe 20:53:42 <andythenorth> that was useful 20:53:49 <andythenorth> didn't answer my original question though ;) 20:53:57 <Xaroth|Work> which, exactly? 20:54:04 <Xaroth|Work> too much spam in here :P 20:54:09 <andythenorth> should I add an additional subclass for ' ShipWithRefittableCapacity' ? 20:54:15 <andythenorth> which subclasses ship 20:54:22 <andythenorth> instead of having 'if foo' conditional crap 20:54:29 <Xaroth|Work> or a Refittable mixin? 20:54:35 <andythenorth> mixin is preferable 20:54:41 <andythenorth> I didn't know about mixins in python 20:54:48 <Xaroth|Work> Refittable applies to more than just ships 20:54:49 <andythenorth> only seen them in Less css etc 20:54:58 <Xaroth|Work> class A(B, C): 20:55:03 * andythenorth -> SO 20:55:11 <Xaroth|Work> a mixin is, in essence, a class 20:55:58 <andythenorth> http://www.ianlewis.org/en/mixins-and-python 20:56:02 <andythenorth> seems useful 20:56:16 <Xaroth|Work> yeh 20:56:27 <Xaroth|Work> inheritance goes right to left 20:56:37 <andythenorth> makes sense 20:56:39 <Xaroth|Work> bit odd, then again.. using spaces for code blocks is as well :P 20:56:51 <andythenorth> wouldn't have guessed right to left 20:56:55 <andythenorth> but it's correct imo 20:57:04 <andythenorth> once you understand scopes :P 20:57:07 <frosch123> night 20:57:10 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00b388.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: quak] 20:57:19 <andythenorth> look in nearest scope first 21:01:25 <andythenorth> ugh 21:01:27 <andythenorth> toyland 21:01:34 <andythenorth> toddler has been playing in 'bubble land' 21:01:35 <andythenorth> :( 21:02:52 <andythenorth> mixins are neat 21:02:59 <andythenorth> that's exactly what I wanted 21:03:08 <andythenorth> not a horrible spaghetti nest of subclasses 21:03:21 <Alberth> \o/ 21:04:12 <Alberth> I find them hard to understand what you have, at the end, but in your case I can imagine they are useful 21:04:28 <andythenorth> I do not want to think about calling super() with mixins :( 21:04:35 <andythenorth> too much baggage 21:05:37 <andythenorth> oic 21:05:44 <andythenorth> it just looks in the hierarchy for the method 21:05:49 <Alberth> the other option is to split your bag of variables in a number of smaller bags, make separate class/instances of them, then treat those objects as variables 21:06:05 <andythenorth> as per BANDIT graphics generator 21:06:09 <andythenorth> I like that method too 21:06:15 <andythenorth> overkill here I think :) 21:06:55 <Alberth> doing the same thing more than one time is boring :) 21:07:18 * Alberth is inventing a good way to write a state machine in C++ :) 21:07:43 <andythenorth> :o 21:08:10 <Alberth> except I have a lot of methods in each state :) 21:08:13 <__ln__> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/07/15/1530233/linux-311-officially-named-linux-for-workgroups 21:18:46 *** Ristovski [~rafael@ppp-seco11pa2-46-193-128.78.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #openttd 21:20:01 <LordAro> Alberth: roller coasters? 21:20:25 <Alberth> yeah 21:20:49 <Alberth> or rather, the user interaction while building one 21:21:23 <Alberth> ie what happens when you click a button etc, just like the path build interaction 21:21:52 <Alberth> except I am not happy with that code, it's very hard to read 21:23:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1972C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:13 *** DarkAce-Z is now known as DarkAceZ 21:25:37 <Xaroth|Work> using super() too much can be avoided though 21:30:02 <Eddi|zuHause> at one time i had existing classes bac, baf, bar and baz, and made a "def foo()" followed by bac.foo=foo, bar.foo=foo etc. 21:35:08 <Alberth> looks like the C code I converted to classes :) 21:35:57 <Alberth> good night 21:38:06 <andythenorth> +1 21:38:07 <andythenorth> bye 21:38:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #openttd [] 21:38:28 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:54:15 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-165-35-135.range86-165.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:04:43 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:04:46 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 22:07:59 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387AB85.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 22:09:56 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-15-33.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:13:50 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:09 *** Mucht [~Martin@000128e2.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:05 *** flaa [~flaa@89.100.79.103] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:26:58 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:28:52 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.137.75.224] has quit [] 22:33:40 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:36:14 *** TrueBrain_ is now known as TrueBrain 23:02:44 *** Ristovski [~rafael@ppp-seco11pa2-46-193-128.78.wb.wifirst.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:04:45 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:13:30 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:16:08 *** Superuser [~superuser@host81-156-23-163.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:30:17 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 23:45:48 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:49:56 *** MatrixCL2 [~mielipuol@host-109-204-157-114.tp-fne.tampereenpuhelin.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 23:50:16 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:51:37 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has joined #openttd