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00:03:47 <Supercheese> Hmmm, is there any way to clone a train but not have it also copy the vehicle group? 00:04:04 <Supercheese> I'd like to clone a consist, but put it in a new vehicle group 00:05:14 <Supercheese> minor annoyance 00:11:06 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:19:32 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 00:21:36 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause> just move it afterwards? 00:23:20 <Supercheese> That's the "minor" part, I can do that 00:23:32 <Supercheese> but I'd rather have an option to put it into Ungrouped 00:23:41 <Supercheese> although I have no idea how that option would be triggered... 00:23:53 <Supercheese> ctrl is taken 00:26:03 <Supercheese> definitely not worth opening a feature request at the bug tracker for :P 00:29:26 *** dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:34:13 *** kais58|A1K [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 00:35:53 *** kais58|AFK [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:43:34 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 01:20:21 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@200.146.82.48.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:35:24 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:58:08 *** montalvo [~montalvo@macbook60.icrar.org] has joined #openttd 02:30:20 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-210-133-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #openttd 03:03:56 *** Wuzzy [~Wuzzy@0001b11e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:05:41 *** amiller [~amiller@216-15-29-79.c3-0.161-ubr1.lnh-161.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:22:02 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@200.146.82.48.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 03:27:32 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@200.146.82.48.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:24:49 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 04:27:10 *** kais58|A1K [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:27:22 *** kais58|AFK [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 04:32:50 *** amiller [~amiller@pool-96-255-47-217.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 04:42:26 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5981.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC666A9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:05:16 *** eQualizer [~lauri@46-163-226-192.blcnet.fi] has joined #openttd 05:12:54 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:23:05 *** dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has joined #openttd 06:20:27 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:28:28 *** Pol [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 06:37:39 *** permagreen [~donovan@204-195-27-175.wavecable.com] has quit [Quit: USER DEAD IMMINENT] 06:39:43 *** montalvo [~montalvo@macbook60.icrar.org] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 06:54:50 *** permagreen [~donovan@204.195.27.175] has joined #openttd 06:56:54 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 06:59:08 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:01:15 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:02:15 *** SpComb [terom@zapotek.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd 07:20:54 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:32:10 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:32:43 *** Vadtec [~Vadtec@2001:470:1f06:13e0::1337] has joined #openttd 07:36:15 *** ntx_ [~ntx@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c027-185.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:44:37 *** Aristide [~quassel@ip-59.net-81-220-245.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #openttd 07:45:12 <Aristide> Hi ! 07:45:30 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-133-76.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 07:53:34 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 07:54:37 <Xaroth|Work> o/ 07:55:12 <Supercheese> Has anyone ever made a 3D model of the OTTD logo? 07:56:31 <Aristide> Xaroth|Work: Hi :) 07:56:37 <Aristide> Xaroth|Work: Fake (Work) 07:57:29 <Xaroth|Work> Aristide: I'm actually at work. 07:57:35 <Aristide> =) 07:57:44 <Xaroth|Work> and it's fooking hot in the office 07:57:47 <Eddi|zuHause> "be at work" is fundametally different from "working" :p 07:57:58 <Aristide> =( 07:58:05 <Aristide> Eddi|zuHause: You read in my Brain ... 07:58:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i do that sometimes, yes. 07:59:00 <Aristide> :( 07:59:05 * Aristide put a alarm in brain 07:59:09 <Eddi|zuHause> it is sometimes not very accurate, though :p 07:59:30 <Aristide> ^^ 07:59:32 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-010-221.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 07:59:55 * Aristide push Eddi|zuHause under a trolleybus 08:00:02 *** MatrixCL [~mielipuol@host-109-204-157-114.tp-fne.tampereenpuhelin.net] has joined #openttd 08:00:28 <Supercheese> Rather rude of you :P 08:00:33 <Aristide> ^^ 08:01:13 <Aristide> No i'm nice 08:01:26 <Aristide> Because, trolleybus is ecological 08:03:00 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:03:03 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 08:03:03 <Aristide> http://v014o.popscreen.com/eGtsdW9vMTI=_o_trolleybus-irisbus-cristalis-etb18-de-la-future-ligne-c2.jpg <3 08:03:26 <Supercheese> Hehe, I call those bug buses because their mirrors look very much like antennae 08:03:37 <Aristide> :) 08:04:01 <Alberth> good morning 08:04:07 <Aristide> Hi Alberth =) 08:04:25 <Xaroth|Work> morning Alberth 08:04:53 <Eddi|zuHause> we can afford proper trams here :p 08:06:37 <Aristide> Eddi|zuHause: http://www.lelyondesgones.com/photos_tcl/tramway/52lyon_tramway.jpg ? :D 08:06:59 <Aristide> What is a look of your tram in your cities ? 08:07:23 <Eddi|zuHause> not that ugly :p 08:07:29 <Supercheese> O_o 08:07:42 <Supercheese> Hunchback tram 08:07:42 <Aristide> :o 08:07:53 <Supercheese> Or, well, hunchfront 08:09:02 *** ST2 [~ST2@bl20-238-111.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 08:12:48 *** xT2 [~ST2@2.81.238.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:20:08 <krinn> repo query (the www version) on devzone is out of order :( 08:21:04 <Aristide> http://www.demotivateur.fr/watermark.php?src=images/demotivateur_img/imgresize/152267680651ec05ba67741_bebe.jpg :3 08:21:34 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.75.224] has quit [] 08:21:40 <Supercheese> Delicious kitten, you must eat 08:22:01 <Aristide> =) 08:22:17 <Aristide> I want to eat now :( 08:22:21 <Aristide> Everything but eat 08:22:56 <Aristide> So, I have again a problem for rails junction in openttd 08:23:13 <Alberth> stop making junctions? :D 08:23:13 <Aristide> I have test many signals, but train are blocked at station :( 08:23:23 <Aristide> >< 08:23:53 <Alberth> I have seen people do that, it creates a lot of tracks :p 08:24:15 <Supercheese> Use only path signals 08:24:46 <Aristide> Supercheese: I try again, but I have already try this 08:25:02 <Aristide> Supercheese: I put path signal at enter of exit of stations AND in junction ? 08:25:33 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:25:33 <Alberth> path signals go there where it is safe for a train to stop 08:25:37 <Supercheese> Generally, I think you want to put a path signal at each entry point of a junction, and not at the exits 08:25:46 <Supercheese> or at least not until a good ways past the exits 08:25:50 <Alberth> typically without blocking crucial tiles like a junction 08:26:44 <planetmaker> acknowledged krinn. I'm trying to solve the issue right now 08:27:21 <Supercheese> Well, I should sleep, it's 1:30 AM 08:27:30 <Supercheese> valete omnes 08:27:31 <Xaroth|Work> you can sleep when you're dead 08:27:42 *** Supercheese [~Password4@98.145.153.126] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 08:28:14 <krinn> thanks planetmaker 08:28:41 <Eddi|zuHause> Aristide: http://www.drehscheibe-foren.de/foren/file.php?5" target="_blank">http://www.drehscheibe-foren.de/foren/file.php?5,file=79687 http://img4.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/857adwpwsobvad8e.jpg http://www.drehscheibe-foren.de/foren/file.php?5" target="_blank">http://www.drehscheibe-foren.de/foren/file.php?5,file=79698 08:29:01 <Aristide> Eddi|zuHause: Berlin ? 08:29:10 <Eddi|zuHause> no 08:29:17 <Aristide> Hm ... Okay 08:29:17 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 08:29:52 <Alberth> Aristide: http://wiki.openttd.org/Signals#Path_signals there are 2 pictures next to each other labeled "bad" and "good" that show where not to place path signals 08:30:50 <Alberth> hmm, the entire signal page should be rewritten to using path signals as primary solution 08:31:00 <Aristide> Ok 08:31:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yeah, i said this many times 08:33:51 <planetmaker> krinn, try again 08:34:20 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58_10 08:34:59 <krinn> planetmaker, fix ^^ 08:35:14 <krinn> thank you 08:35:24 <planetmaker> yw 08:36:15 *** lugo [~oftc-webi@business-188-111-087-254.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:37:45 <Aristide> Hm ... 08:37:50 <Aristide> I use path signal but http://wstaw.org/m/2013/07/22/plasma-desktopVW2062.png x) 08:37:58 <Aristide> The train (in station) is waiting a free path :/ 08:38:30 <planetmaker> Aristide, yes... it tries to go where the other train waits 08:38:41 <Eddi|zuHause> did you disable 90° turns? 08:38:50 <planetmaker> you might want to assign specific drive directions to tracks. By using one-way path signals 08:38:55 <Aristide> Eddi|zuHause: Without this signals its work ^^' 08:38:59 <planetmaker> instead of the ones which can be passed through from the back 08:39:16 <Aristide> planetmaker: I replace pathsignals with one direction signals ? 08:40:10 <krinn> lol your junction lack rails so trains wishing to take the most left and coming from your station just cannot enter it 08:40:10 <Alberth> so where is the train in the station supposed to go? 08:40:24 <Aristide> Alberth: At the empty rails 08:40:37 <Alberth> I don't see a track leading to it 08:40:53 <Aristide> Alberth: http://wstaw.org/m/2013/07/22/plasma-desktopPP2062.png 08:41:03 <Aristide> I have reload my save : 08:41:27 <Xaroth|Work> that's not really efficient tho :o 08:41:39 <Alberth> oh, lol :) 08:41:53 *** lugo [~oftc-webi@000189e6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:42:07 <Aristide> Ok no, the problem its me x) 08:42:19 <Alberth> Aristide: what happens if you turn the train around? 08:42:30 <Aristide> Hm ... No is not me 08:43:02 <Aristide> Alberth: ? 08:43:16 <Aristide> Sorry, my English is not very well, I don't very understand question 08:43:38 <Alberth> click on the train in the station, it is going to the other train 08:43:50 <Alberth> click on the turn around button 08:43:59 <krinn> Aristide, il se passe quoi si tu retournes le train (y'a un bouton pour changer de direction) 08:44:02 <planetmaker> it's the same save as yesterday? The real problem is that tracks are not assigned a direction 08:44:14 <Alberth> then it should find the exit 08:44:20 <Aristide> planetmaker: Yes 08:44:22 <planetmaker> thus trains may wait for a free path when sitting engine front to engine front at stations 08:44:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Aristide: the technical explanation what happens: the train has two options to exit the station: forward through the 90° turn and the other platform, and backwards through the waiting train. the pathfinder gets to the conclusion that the backwards way is "shorter" (has less penalties) 08:44:36 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, 90° is not the problem there. it's allowed 08:45:01 <Eddi|zuHause> "empty platform" has higher penalty than "occupied track" 08:45:04 <Aristide> planetmaker: I try with one direction signals :) 08:45:10 <NGC3982> Morning. 08:45:16 <Eddi|zuHause> which is a rather common problem, maybe we should adjust the defaults there 08:45:37 <planetmaker> you mean one-way pbs being default? 08:45:44 <Alberth> Aristide: you should add a junction in front of the station instead 08:46:02 <Alberth> and use one-way path signals also helps 08:46:07 <Aristide> Okay 08:46:12 <Aristide> Thank you I try now 08:46:28 <planetmaker> yeah. the 90° behind the stations is... very ugly. build an X in front. 08:46:53 <Xaroth|Work> or use a proper roro station layout :) 08:47:20 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:47:46 <Eddi|zuHause> there are A LOT of solutions for your problem 08:47:50 <krinn> aristide http://www.transporttycoon.net/images/junctions/double_track_basic_station_junct.png 08:48:28 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. make your station only 1 track, the other track should be just "empty rail" 08:49:12 <Eddi|zuHause> (there is no point in going again through the station that you just left) 08:50:12 <Aristide> Yeah its work now o/ 08:50:17 <Aristide> Thank you :) 08:50:18 <Zuu> Or make the station a Ro-Ro where both tracks are used in the same direction and provide a loop back next to the station (or some tiles away to allow wider curve radius) - which is effectivly what Eddi|zuHause suggests, just that he reduces the size of the station. 08:51:33 <krinn> funny that new players are coming 08:51:48 <Eddi|zuHause> why wouldn't they? 08:52:20 <Alberth> CS is doing all kinds of advertising for us :p 08:52:21 <krinn> even without considering tt, openttd itself is quiet old 08:52:46 *** lugo [~oftc-webi@business-188-111-087-254.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 08:52:48 <krinn> CS <- ? 08:53:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Chris Sawyer 08:53:09 <planetmaker> hehe, can be seen as such, too, Alberth :-) 08:53:10 <Eddi|zuHause> inventor of the game, you know 08:53:17 <krinn> yep 08:53:54 <Alberth> krinn: so what's a better transport game? most of the current games are about 1st persons shooting other 1st persons 08:54:45 <lugo> Propably stupid question, the readmes of GSs are not in the lang folder, so if i translate one, does openttd know which readme to display? like if i name it readme_de.txt or something 08:55:13 <planetmaker> yes, by name 08:55:20 <planetmaker> you got it right :-) 08:55:33 <lugo> ah cool thanks 08:56:28 <planetmaker> (now I hope it works for GS and AI the same way it works for NewGRF, that readme actually *can* be translated) :D 08:57:33 <krinn> well, you can still put translate inside the readme won't disturb anyone except if you start translate to 300 language or your readme is a bible 08:57:54 <krinn> like if anyone read readme :) 08:58:01 <Xaroth|Work> WTB: Airco 08:58:28 <planetmaker> gimme one, too? 08:58:33 *** lugo [~oftc-webi@000189e6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:39 <Xaroth|Work> 32.7C in the office atm 08:58:42 <Xaroth|Work> was 32.5 earlier 08:58:48 <Xaroth|Work> not even 30C outside yet 08:58:55 <planetmaker> krinn, clearly not: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=67083 (though it's wiki) 08:59:11 <planetmaker> lol, Xaroth :-) 08:59:19 <Xaroth|Work> no, snot funny :( 08:59:21 <planetmaker> switch computers in reverse heat mode :D 08:59:30 <planetmaker> convert heat into power 08:59:44 <Xaroth|Work> I was contemplating building a steam turbine on the roof 08:59:44 <Zuu> Alberth: And if you tell people that you play OpenTTD, they will later ask do you play any real comersial games? :-p 08:59:59 <Eddi|zuHause> what a great idea!! we could solve the world's energy crisis!! 09:00:08 <krinn> planetmaker, :) 09:00:10 <planetmaker> to let off your steam, Xaroth ? >:-) 09:00:25 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: and to generate power (and thus money) from that :) 09:00:28 <Alberth> Zuu: didn't happen to me yet 09:00:47 <Zuu> lucky you :-) 09:00:52 <planetmaker> :-) 09:00:59 <krinn> Alberth, do you play any real commercial game ? 09:01:00 <Xaroth|Work> Zuu: then I tell them that I get a better experience while playing from an open source game, than i get from 50 commercial games combined 09:01:03 <krinn> :-) 09:01:52 <planetmaker> Xaroth, one of the main obstacles for me to play commercial games, no joke, is that I need to reboot to windows most of the time 09:01:59 <Alberth> krinn: does rollercoaster tycoon 2 count? :) 09:02:02 <planetmaker> which leaves me usually with a very bad user experience ;-) 09:02:20 <planetmaker> I then want back the way things usually work... which they simply don't then 09:02:25 <Xaroth|Work> that doesn't happen with steam most of the time 09:02:30 <Alberth> planetmaker: easy solution: rm -rf /dev/windows :) 09:02:56 <planetmaker> Alberth, well... :-) simple solution: don't reboot to windows. No reason except commercial games really 09:03:07 <Xaroth|Work> I haven't rebooted my windows machine in.. months 09:03:18 <Xaroth|Work> (I should, really, but I can't be arsed) 09:03:22 <planetmaker> and, I guess I'm here as there are also very nice open-source games :D 09:03:32 <planetmaker> same here, Xaroth :-) 09:03:42 <Alberth> I haven't found a commercial game recently worth buying windows for 09:03:58 <Xaroth|Work> only one I play atm is dota 2 09:04:03 <Xaroth|Work> which is available on linux now too 09:04:32 <krinn> i only brought idsoftware games (except the last one) because of that 09:04:53 <Zuu> The last commersial game that I bought was Sim City 4 Deluxe. (except for Ticket To Ride online) 09:04:58 <planetmaker> I marvel your patience, Alberth 09:05:04 <planetmaker> @ tt-f 09:05:20 <Alberth> in fact I hardly play games other than tinkering in software :) 09:05:28 <Alberth> :) 09:05:35 <planetmaker> in fact that's true for me meanwhile, too 09:05:54 <planetmaker> some table-top RPG or real board games excluded 09:07:25 <Alberth> such a useful topic: "Question" at tt-forums :) 09:09:40 <planetmaker> you're right. I changed title :D 09:09:45 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.137.75.224] has joined #openttd 09:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i also played a bunch of board games recently. some are actually quite fun 09:23:07 *** permagreen [~donovan@204.195.27.175] has quit [Quit: USER DEAD IMMINENT] 09:24:11 <krinn> planetmaker, :) dev www down but not only repo this time 09:24:52 <planetmaker> gah :S 09:25:15 <krinn> told you to not host it with a zx81 ! 09:25:26 <peter1139> don't touch the memory pack 09:25:27 <planetmaker> :-P 09:27:16 <peter1139> "permission to transfer â¬5,000,000,000 into your bank account" yeah... go ahead 09:27:41 <planetmaker> krinn, currently a reload might help at times... there seems something intermittent going wrong 09:29:52 <krinn> planetmaker, ah yes working now 09:30:05 <krinn> well, more or less 09:30:58 <planetmaker> well... gunicorn eats LOADs of memory currently... more than is good for it 09:31:25 <planetmaker> is someone pulling zbase via http? 09:32:13 <krinn> not me 09:32:58 <Zuu> planetmaker: perheps you can see that in the access logs? 09:37:25 <Alberth> unicorns seem to control the world, or the devzone at least :p 09:40:35 <planetmaker> definitely 09:40:46 *** Aristide [~quassel@ip-59.net-81-220-245.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:40:58 *** Aristide [~quassel@ip-59.net-81-220-245.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #openttd 09:41:32 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 09:41:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 09:41:48 <Xaroth|Work> o/ andeh 09:50:30 <planetmaker> well. if nothing helps, a reboot does :D 09:53:03 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [] 09:55:07 <wakou2> Hi all & planetmaker, yesterday planetmaker gave me some links to archives of some co-op games etc, also 'the junctionary'.... 09:55:26 <wakou2> I can't load/run these games due to missing files.. 09:55:57 <Alberth> would http://wiki.openttdcoop.org/GRF help? 09:56:01 <planetmaker> planetmaker: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/GRF 09:56:08 <wakou2> and the missing files do not automatically download.. can they be found somewhere else? 09:56:10 <planetmaker> oh, I'm slow 09:56:24 <wakou2> :) 09:56:35 <Alberth> you have a different hostname :) 09:57:12 <wakou2> Thanks guys.. 09:57:45 <planetmaker> he, indeed. but it likely is the same page, Alberth :-) 09:58:21 <Alberth> hopefully :) 10:00:20 *** Wuzzy [~Wuzzy@0001b11e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:03:39 <wakou2> OK I have the ottdc_grfpack_8.0.tar.gz 10:04:03 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.hdsnet.hu] has joined #openttd 10:05:25 <wakou2> In my content download folder, all the downloaded files are .tar, but inside the pack there are folders containing .grf's do I just extract to the content_download folder? 10:05:28 <Alberth> that's the easy part :p Understanding what they built is much more complicated :) 10:05:48 <Alberth> you can keep .tar files, openttd can read them 10:06:41 <wakou2> Alberth: yes but in the pack are folders, and files with .grf extensions 10:06:59 <Eddi|zuHause> wakou2: you do NOT extract into the content_download folder, because that is reserved for the ingame download. there are other folders for your manual downloads 10:07:00 <wakou2> Just extract the tar.gz to that folder? 10:07:12 <wakou2> ! 10:07:15 <wakou2> OK ty 10:07:20 <wakou2> where to then? 10:07:28 <Alberth> oh, and content_download is for the in-game downloader, not for manually installed newgrfs. You put those in 'newgrf' 10:07:41 <wakou2> newgrf? 10:07:45 <wakou2> :) 10:07:48 <wakou2> TY ty.. 10:08:40 <Alberth> just gzip -d of the .tar.gz file should be sufficient 10:09:29 <Alberth> although it will also work if you unpack it to a directory tree 10:10:08 <Alberth> but the latter is harder to maintain, as files are not bundled nicely any more 10:11:24 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 10:12:32 *** Dr_Tan [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:13:32 *** Dr_Tan [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 10:16:07 <wakou2> I just clicked on it and used Ark... extract here, use sub-directories.... First co-op save-game I tried works ok :) 10:42:46 <krinn> guys i have a station with a train that doesn't load anything, while another one do 10:42:58 <krinn> checked cargo, ok, orders = same 10:43:07 <krinn> checked wagons == cargotype 10:53:11 *** Ristovski [~rafael@ppp-seco11pa2-46-193-128.78.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #openttd 11:12:33 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:17:18 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 11:17:52 <Alberth> I guess we need a save game? 11:18:14 <krinn> i do have one, but the ai of course crash while making it :P 11:18:25 <Alberth> or just delete the train and share/clone a new one :p 11:18:43 <krinn> well, the idea is finding "why" 11:19:30 <krinn> you know a www to upload the save (like wgetpaste but for binary) ? 11:21:30 <planetmaker> krinn, tt-f. Where you can also ask the question about the savegame ;-) 11:21:53 <krinn> i'm not really in mood to show how my ai is now working with trains :) 11:22:00 <krinn> kinda not really proud for now 11:26:11 <krinn> lol "temp upload binary file" in google gave "Binary mode of temp file in Rails · Issue" link... in google result, looks like google knows i like rails 11:27:32 <planetmaker> ruby on rails ;-) 11:27:40 <planetmaker> devzone also has rails :D 11:27:45 <krinn> :D 11:28:12 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 11:30:45 <krinn> amazing all www i try to upload a binary file are down 11:31:25 <planetmaker> dropbox? 11:31:35 <planetmaker> google drive? 11:31:52 <krinn> trying dropbox 11:32:00 <planetmaker> all come with a free scan by NSA ;-) 11:32:33 <krinn> i should have said : one free, and without some kinda of reg need 11:32:54 <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1087755#p1087755 should I try explain that I don't care how it works with grfmaker? 11:33:17 * planetmaker thinks 'rather not' 11:37:32 <krinn> ok made a thread (really cannot find a binary sharing) 11:38:02 <krinn> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=67085 11:44:35 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:47:32 <Zuu> krinn: I don't know why it happers. But does it also happen without the "modify production values cheat"? I can't see why that would affect it though. 11:48:06 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.hdsnet.hu] has quit [] 11:48:29 <krinn> Zuu, can't answer that, i only use that production cheat as it help the ai making bigger station to provide servicing 11:48:43 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 11:48:44 <krinn> so i don't have a "no cheat" version 11:49:07 <krinn> and i only saw it on that savegame (maybe it had happen before but as i keep reloading the ai didn't saw) 11:50:05 <krinn> i have try disabling (in the samegame it should be set like that) cargodist 11:50:19 <krinn> maybe it's that ? but some trains are working, only 3 aren't 11:51:21 <krinn> funny if you compare train9 & train13 they do the same, except 9 is stuck (and have two goto depot orders the other don't have) 11:56:35 *** ntx [~ntx@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c027-185.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:21:38 <Xaroth|Work> hm, worldgen page has no 'random' button for climate 12:22:04 <Alberth> krinn: perhaps because you have a stop depot order in train 1? 12:22:05 <planetmaker> yeah... Xaroth the 'new game' workflow needs a serious rework 12:22:23 <Xaroth|Work> could use some dumbing down as well yeh 12:22:36 <planetmaker> first of all: stream-lining 12:22:46 <planetmaker> like moving newgrf and ai and settings selection there 12:22:54 <krinn> Alberth, yeah, the 3 stucks trains have stop depot 12:22:58 <planetmaker> otherwise you generate a map and then "eh what?" 12:23:07 <Alberth> if I delete that order, it starts loading 12:23:11 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: yep 12:23:14 <krinn> Alberth, but i don't see why it could be a problem, it's not like the depot isn't working or something 12:23:31 <Alberth> there is no cargo going nowhere? 12:23:35 <andythenorth> planetmaker: one day, we'll fix that newgame workflow 12:23:38 <andythenorth> :P 12:23:58 <krinn> Alberth, both train the 9 is stuck, but the 13 with is working fine 12:24:48 <krinn> the wagons are refit as they should (in fact i don't think they are refit at all) 12:25:00 <Alberth> krinn: it looks like a bug to me, perhaps open an issue for it, so fonsinchen can have a look at it? 12:25:14 <Xaroth|Work> I also don't get why there's 10 different SuperLib entries in the bananananananas listing 12:25:19 <Xaroth|Work> I mean.. 12:25:24 <Alberth> ie it may have to do with the recent cargodist changes 12:25:34 <krinn> Alberth, tbh i think it's that 12:25:45 <fonsinchen> ? 12:25:46 <krinn> i have activate it, seeing it wasn't doing anything i could understand 12:26:00 <krinn> see the stuck trains and disable it then (so they are disable in the savegame) 12:26:25 <krinn> but sending the train by hand to other station and when it come back : stuck again 12:26:34 <Zuu> Xaroth|Work: That is because there are 10 different AIs/GSs that depend on different versions of SuperLib. Each listing show a specific version of SuperLib. 12:26:59 <Xaroth|Work> Zuu: I understand that; that still doesn't make it right 12:27:26 <krinn> Zuu : it might be good to add a "no version" (with latest shown) and a kind of "+" to show all versions (for ones that need a specific one) 12:27:33 <Zuu> There has been a suggestion to hide dependency content unless it has been selected on the filtered content screens. 12:27:33 <Alberth> fonsinchen: some trains are not loading for no apparent reason http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1087757#p1087757 12:27:36 *** mindlesstux_ [~mindlestu@2602:306:33e1:670:821f:2ff:fe9a:976d] has joined #openttd 12:27:49 <Xaroth|Work> how is an average user going to know what he needs? 12:27:56 <Xaroth|Work> he has to click several times to even find the latest version 12:28:06 <Xaroth|Work> counter intuitive 12:28:11 <Zuu> A average user will never select to download SuperLib manually. 12:28:34 <Zuu> It is a library and we have a dependency system to sort that out. 12:28:45 <Xaroth|Work> then it should only show one 12:29:13 <Xaroth|Work> or the library should be more backwards compatible 12:29:42 <Zuu> The library is backwards compatible, but AIs / GSs always depend+import a specific version. 12:29:54 <krinn> Xaroth, i see av8 v1.81 av8 v2.21 in content download: what's wrong newGRF could and AIs can't ? 12:30:10 <Xaroth|Work> krinn: i haven't even got to the newgrf list 12:30:18 <Zuu> I don't oppose your idea to filter some of them out of the list. It's just that I haven't prioritized it over other things to code. 12:31:06 <krinn> So many things, and only 2 hands... 12:31:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:31:26 <Zuu> Indeed 12:31:45 <krinn> lol and half a brain sometimes 12:32:09 *** mindlesstux [~mindlestu@raspberrypi.mindlesstux.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:32:09 *** mindlesstux_ is now known as mindlesstux 12:34:24 <fonsinchen> Train 9 doesn't load because it's going to stop in the depot 12:34:40 <fonsinchen> It knows it's never going to reach narbonne 12:35:04 <fonsinchen> Same for train 26 12:35:25 <Alberth> cargodist is not switched on 12:35:27 <fonsinchen> Actually it seems you've recently switched cargodist off 12:35:40 <Zuu> according to the gamelog no settings were changed 12:35:43 <krinn> yes switch it off because i see the stuck trains 12:35:48 <fonsinchen> Oh, that's a problem 12:36:03 <fonsinchen> when switching off, the "minimal" flows remain 12:36:16 <fonsinchen> I need to fix that 12:36:19 <krinn> yes, but the switch were ON and i switch them OFF to unstuck my trains 12:36:29 <fonsinchen> I see the problem 12:37:00 <Eddi|zuHause> man nick colours are soo bad... 12:37:15 <Alberth> krinn: with cargodist ON, you could defend that the train is not supposed to carry anything 12:37:17 <Zuu> fonsinchen: For some reason changing distribution mode doesn't show up when you type 'gamelog' in the console. 12:37:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i have to read it 6 times to realize there's a different person speaking than i thought it was 12:37:33 <Zuu> If you try any other game setting, they will be logged in the game and show up there. 12:37:42 <fonsinchen> That is weird 12:37:43 <krinn> Alberth, that's what i was thinking, stuck because maybe the cargodist disallow it to get any cargo 12:37:46 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: time for a plugin to set custom fixed nick colours? :) 12:38:05 <Belugas> hello 12:38:13 <Alberth> hello Belugas 12:38:44 <krinn> fonsinchen, i could run a test ai in openttd with cargodist again and wait seeing if it reproduce if you wish 12:39:04 <fonsinchen> I know the problem already 12:39:21 <krinn> i think there's a relation with orders, as stuck trains have orders with depot in it (all of them) 12:39:26 <krinn> ah ok 12:39:36 <fonsinchen> When removing a node from the routing scheme completely normally you want to keep some "minimal" flows to allow any remaining cargo to be routed 12:39:49 <fonsinchen> You don't want that when you're switching distribution modes, though. 12:40:17 <fonsinchen> And "stop" orders lead to vehicles not loading any cargo before 12:40:26 <fonsinchen> because what would they do with it in the depot? 12:40:33 <Belugas> sir Alberth :) 12:40:45 <fonsinchen> The latter is by design 12:41:05 <krinn> fonsinchen, it's my AI, don't ask too much logic with orders, except raw one : it's allow, let's go :) 12:41:23 <fonsinchen> Why are you actually using "stop" orders? 12:41:30 <Alberth> Belugas: In case you confuse me with an Albert in Belgium, he gave up the throne a few days ago :p 12:41:33 <krinn> ^^ to stop them 12:41:42 <fonsinchen> But right after loading? 12:41:54 <krinn> yes 12:41:55 <fonsinchen> usually you'd load cargo and deliver it then 12:42:07 <fonsinchen> rather than hording it in a depot 12:42:18 <Alberth> krinn: wouldn't it more useful to stop after unloading? 12:42:33 <krinn> Alberth, not if you count the distance 12:42:47 <Xaroth|Work> cargodist was in 1.3.1 right? 12:42:56 <Eddi|zuHause> no 12:42:56 <Zuu> Xaroth|Work: no 12:42:57 <Alberth> Xaroth|Work: nope 12:42:59 <Belugas> yeah, i'v seen it, Alberth. long live Alberth! 12:43:00 <Xaroth|Work> no? bah 12:43:20 <fonsinchen> If a compelling case can be made for storing cargo in a depot I can change the logic but I don't quite understand the intention in that savegame. 12:43:23 <Eddi|zuHause> only in nightly/1.4(-alpha) 12:43:48 <Alberth> krinn: distance? 12:44:04 <Alberth> you cannot drive back to the loading station, and then go to the depot? 12:44:27 <Alberth> ie you have to go back any way 12:44:30 <krinn> fonsinchen, station1+depot and station+depot sending train to station1/depot1 station2/depot2 avoid sending train taking time to goes to station2 deliver and goto depot2 (that may not even exist) 12:45:10 <krinn> i don't have to go back : existing depot1 train is set to station1 12:45:10 <fonsinchen> Could you write a few complete sentences about that in the forums thread, please? 12:45:14 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: you're not delivering anything, so why expect to load anything? 12:45:28 <Zuu> krinn: But why do you have 'stop' order for the depots and not just 'service' or 'go to'? 12:46:13 <krinn> Zuu, making sure it will stop at one or the other, not to service but to trigger the depot event 12:46:30 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, you bring insulation matrace and sleeping bag as well, will you? 12:46:39 <planetmaker> and V453000 ^, right? 12:46:47 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: need to search for that 12:47:00 <planetmaker> you should ;-) 12:47:06 <krinn> it's an AI remember: if i need to add wagon i need to watch what my train is doing OR easier: forcing it stop at depot getting the event and openttd tell me it is ready to get more wagons 12:47:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i used to have an air matrace but i think that one was broken 12:48:03 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i'm delivering goods, lol except for the stucks trains, they aren't toys trains that travel for nothing :) 12:48:08 <planetmaker> I'd like to reserve the stuff I have for the people who really travel long distance and don't come by car. 12:48:42 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: i do think whatever you're trying to do needs some rearranging, and cargodist is right to handle stop-in-depot this way 12:49:24 <krinn> a bit hard to say a stop in depot order isn't a valid order 12:50:22 <Alberth> krinn: customers of the cargo don't like cargo to stay in depots :) 12:50:46 <krinn> Alberth, fuck customers : companies do what they want with ressources 12:50:58 <krinn> and keeping away ressources rise their demand and prize :) 12:52:06 <planetmaker> dihedral, you also bring insulation matrace and sleeping bag, yes, please? 12:53:15 <krinn> but honeslty if you gave a package to your local postmail and their train need some maintenance, they will swap the loco with another one : all in all even faster (and it's not really doable for me in openttd) : the mail company will take more time to carry it, and don't really care 12:57:42 <Xaroth|Work> odd 12:58:14 <krinn> i don't think my logic is broken there, but more the one that imply loading at a station you cannot go to a depot : well in life they do it a lot : loading passenger at stationX, going to depot at stationZ add 3 coal wagons, going to station Y drop passenger, going to K drop coal 13:01:33 <fonsinchen> Depot stops should actually invalidate last_loading_station 13:01:44 <fonsinchen> So that the link doesn't show up in the first place 13:02:11 <krinn> oh, and maybe you think that's "normal orders" ? 13:02:23 <fonsinchen> They're not normal 13:02:24 <krinn> on depot exit depot orders are removed from the list 13:02:38 <fonsinchen> Without further interaction the train is stuck in the depot forever 13:03:31 <krinn> then cargodist have a problem there, and even i could avoid it by sending my train deliver before going to depot (it's easy to do), it's not something i should have to do 13:04:32 <krinn> and if you wish knows, it's an AI and # of orders help me : 2 orders good, 4 orders + going to depot state = normal, other value, i need to check and rebuild my orders 13:04:46 <fonsinchen> The problem is that the link shows up 13:05:06 <fonsinchen> If the link wouldn't be constructed then no cargo would be routed and your plan would work 13:05:11 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host217-43-119-57.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 13:05:13 <krinn> it show up because that train have "normal orders" goto there load, goto there unload 13:05:26 * LordAro waves 13:05:27 <krinn> and the AI add the 2 depot order only when the AI need the train to stopped 13:06:11 <fonsinchen> nope, they don't have normal orders 13:06:16 <fonsinchen> the link shouldn't be there 13:06:24 <krinn> sure i could replace the 2 orders with only the 2 goto depot order to avoid that bug, but i will loose ability to knows what the train is doing by comparing number of orders in the train 13:10:25 <krinn> well, i could see why as human you dislike that way of doing, but i don't see any reason to consider that not a "normal" action, even you think it's a dumb action, it's then just a dumb normal action :) 13:13:38 *** Ristovski [~rafael@ppp-seco11pa2-46-193-128.78.wb.wifirst.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:14:15 *** Ristovski [~rafael@ppp-seco11pa2-46-193-128.78.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #openttd 13:15:16 <fonsinchen> I can't count on the "normal" player to restart the vehicle everytime it stops in the depot. 13:15:34 <fonsinchen> After all, the "stop" order is made for the exact opposite effect 13:16:17 <krinn> yeah, but i agree on that, an ai isn't a normal player, but still it's a normal action for openttd that exist since tt 13:18:44 <krinn> you need issue open to track it or it's ok ? 13:22:16 <fonsinchen> I already have a patch that prevents the link from being created 13:22:25 <fonsinchen> From my perspective the problem is solved 13:22:39 <fonsinchen> If you want to discuss it any further you should open a ticket 13:22:41 <Zuu> krinn: If you need to store information about a vehicle, you have 31 chars in the vehicle name. 13:23:14 <Zuu> CluelessPlus store vehicle state information in the vehicle name. 13:23:34 <Zuu> For example vehicles that are sent for selling have 'sell' in their name. 13:23:42 <krinn> Zuu, i use that trick on my group, as i see you've done it with station name and vehicle, but i avoid it, i don't like human player seeing too much weird name in station or vehicle name 13:24:24 <Zuu> krinn: Doing it on the group is smart to avoid it on stations. The vehicle name is however not visible to players unless they specifically look at it. 13:24:50 <krinn> Zuu, don't worry, i could also avoid it by swapping the two orders with 4 goto depot orders too, i'm not really scared by the bug, but it's really a bug, as goto depot is a normal action :P 13:25:30 <Zuu> goto depot is a normal order, yes. But the 'stop in depot' flag is not. 13:26:03 <Zuu> Its added when you need to maintain a vehicle. Or hidden behind a conditional order so that old vehicles go to depot for selling automatically. 13:26:29 <krinn> well, that's what i do, i add it for maintenance 13:26:54 <krinn> without the need to send the train to depot to alter it, the orders are just goto there and goto there 13:26:54 <Zuu> But the order doesn't stay there forever do it? 13:27:07 <krinn> no, they are removed on depot exit 13:27:52 <Zuu> So in that case you could modify the load order from 'full load' to 'load availablle' in the event that you add maintainence orders because you want a train to the depot. 13:28:07 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Quit: reboot] 13:28:28 <krinn> or just push goto depots X, goto depot Y, goto depot X, goto depot Y to keep my 4 orders value 13:28:40 <krinn> as i said i can avoid it a lot 13:28:48 <krinn> or i could even disable train if cargodist is enable 13:29:33 <krinn> but one human will came and complain, because legit stupid things are legit, even stupid and one will do that for sure 13:36:53 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 14:04:30 *** ntoskrnl11 [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:05:30 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p5DC666A9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:05:55 *** guru3_ [~guru3@90-224-111-173-no225.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 14:07:08 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:07:08 *** guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:07:17 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@2001:828:405:30:83:96:177:42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:18 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@2001:828:405:30:83:96:177:42] has joined #openttd 14:10:28 *** Aristide [~quassel@ip-59.net-81-220-245.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:48 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:11:48 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC666A9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:11:49 *** Aristide [~quassel@ip-59.net-81-220-245.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #openttd 14:23:13 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:26:18 *** Aristide [~quassel@ip-59.net-81-220-245.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:17 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 14:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, in civ4 i'm missing the information how long the space ship travels :/ 14:38:04 <planetmaker> you're playing? We expect CETS finished by Saturday! ;-) 14:39:11 *** Aristide [~quassel@ip-59.net-81-220-245.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #openttd 14:39:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't work on CETS with a huge issue like this on my mind! :p 14:40:05 <planetmaker> add the spaceship to CETS and see how long it travels ;-) 14:40:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no openttd map that contains both earth and alpha centauri 14:42:20 <Eddi|zuHause> thing is, it takes 20 turns for my cultural victory, and two other nations have started their space ship in the same turn. and i have no idea whether i have to do anything about that (i.e. capture their space program site) 14:44:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i also built a space ship as a side-project, but it would take 12 further turns to complete 14:45:44 *** amiller [~amiller@pool-96-255-47-217.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:51:13 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590d59fa.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 14:54:11 *** Wuzzy [~Wuzzy@0001b11e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:55:48 <planetmaker> travel time does vary, doesn't it? Depending on engines included in the ship and its overall mass / size? 15:00:46 *** Aristide [~quassel@ip-59.net-81-220-245.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that was different in various civ version 15:01:30 <Eddi|zuHause> and i can't find that info in civ4 15:03:48 <planetmaker> just start your icbms then ;-) 15:03:57 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.hdsnet.hu] has joined #openttd 15:05:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it does have a victory condition chart, but it says there only how many parts the others have completed, not how fast it will arrive 15:08:43 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:13:11 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:21:40 *** mindlesstux_ [~mindlestu@raspberrypi.mindlesstux.com] has joined #openttd 15:22:27 *** amiller [~amiller@129-2-129-154.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #openttd 15:23:32 *** mindlesstux [~mindlestu@2602:306:33e1:670:821f:2ff:fe9a:976d] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:23:32 *** mindlesstux_ is now known as mindlesstux 15:39:32 *** DDR [~chatzilla@d154-20-133-76.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #openttd 15:51:58 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:56:35 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:13:27 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 16:22:57 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:23:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:23:54 <V453000> planetmaker: of course :) 16:24:51 <planetmaker> :-) Just trying to make sure that everyone can actually sleep here who wants :D 16:25:04 <planetmaker> will be crowded this time, I guess 16:25:14 <planetmaker> but with the space under the roof it might actually work 16:25:29 <planetmaker> crowded, but oh well. It's only one night and... a short one at that, most likely :D 16:25:50 <V453000> actually I can sleep in the car without any problems, too 16:26:02 <V453000> there is 2m space if I take out 2 seats and leave 3rd seat for eddi :) 16:26:02 <planetmaker> sounds uncomfortable 16:26:10 <planetmaker> :-) 16:26:11 <V453000> you would be surprised :) 16:26:15 <planetmaker> but you bring smatz, yes? 16:26:26 <V453000> hopefully, got to write him naow 16:26:46 <planetmaker> as I haven't heard anything from him since... well... then when you noticed it, too 16:27:04 <V453000> superior phone technologies! 16:27:08 <planetmaker> :-) 16:27:21 <V453000> what time did you say we should ~arrive? 16:27:24 <V453000> like 3 pm 16:27:25 <V453000> ? 16:27:33 <planetmaker> I do have a phone number from him, too... after all I spend a few nights at his place already 2(?) years ago 16:27:40 <planetmaker> yeah 16:28:00 <V453000> that will probably be more than 2 years ago if it is the same occasion as I heard about some years ago :P 16:28:10 <planetmaker> +- whatever suits you really. Maybe not before noon as I'll then still get BBQ stuff, but otherwise it should be fine, I guess 16:28:16 <planetmaker> yeah 16:28:17 <planetmaker> that 16:28:20 <planetmaker> 2010, I guess 16:28:22 <planetmaker> hm... 16:28:34 <V453000> alright 16:28:41 <planetmaker> wow. 2010 was the last meeting? Looong ago 16:28:50 <V453000> yez 16:36:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@37.157.51.49] has joined #openttd 16:37:05 *** Progman [~progman@p57A182ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:54:42 *** Wuzzy [~Wuzzy@0001b11e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:58:24 <andythenorth> hmm 16:58:35 <andythenorth> bbl 16:59:00 *** andythenorth [~Andy@37.157.51.49] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:01:33 <Xaroth|Work> wow, TI3's prize pot is getting insane O_O 17:01:37 <Xaroth|Work> 2.6 million already 17:01:49 <scshunt> TI3? 17:01:54 <Xaroth|Work> The International 17:02:06 <Xaroth|Work> Dota2 17:03:31 <Xaroth|Work> (mind, this is 600k more than the previous largest prize pool) 17:04:12 <frosch123> is this comparable to sc2's wcs? 17:04:30 <frosch123> (the event, the prizepool seems to be more) 17:04:42 <Xaroth|Work> sorta, yes 17:04:56 <Xaroth|Work> the previous largest was for League of Legends, at 1.97m 17:05:03 <Xaroth|Work> (same type of game, both MOBA's) 17:05:19 <V453000> I think sc2 events are for one person more, but throughout the year ... dota is like 1 international and then some small events which arent even comparable 17:05:26 <frosch123> well, it all depends on the number of "sub-tournaments" :p 17:05:32 <Xaroth|Work> there are a lot of small events though 17:05:50 <Xaroth|Work> every week at least 10 running tournaments 17:06:09 *** kais58_11 [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:06:14 <Xaroth|Work> with prizes for those ranging between 2k and 50k 17:06:15 <frosch123> sc2 wcs is like 3 (?) seasons, with 3 regional tournaments each 17:07:51 *** kais58_10 [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:08:01 <V453000> did Esc key always work to cancel chat window or am I on drugs? 17:08:08 <V453000> (talking openttd)) 17:08:26 <Xaroth|Work> no idea :o 17:08:53 <frosch123> V453000: if it wasn't always, then it got added half a year ago 17:09:04 <V453000> really? 17:09:09 <frosch123> i unified the behaviour of all editboxes 17:09:10 <V453000> well it doesnt work now for some reason :s 17:09:13 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.48.230] has joined #openttd 17:09:19 <frosch123> so, if something changes, then then :p 17:09:34 <frosch123> cursor must be in editbox likely 17:10:02 <V453000> ... 17:10:10 <frosch123> Xaroth|Work: 4 times more money for 1st compared to 2nd feels wrong :p 17:10:12 <V453000> srsly chat should be possible to cancel with esc 17:11:05 <Xaroth|Work> frosch123: it kinda does, but it makes the drive to win that much more real :D 17:11:41 <frosch123> http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2013_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series#Prize_Pool http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/The_International/2013#Prizepool <- really different distribution 17:12:14 <V453000> TI3 will go to china again anyway, wont it 17:12:20 <V453000> I mean the 1st places 17:12:31 <frosch123> Xaroth|Work: sc2 finals either end in 4:0 and are boring, or they end in 4:3 which is kinda lucky :p 17:12:38 <Aristide> Hi friends <3 17:15:51 <Xaroth|Work> frosch123: that happens sometimes, yes 17:17:05 *** kais58_11 is now known as kais58|AFK 17:17:05 <frosch123> hmm, eg has no official dota team? (only alliance) 17:17:43 <Xaroth|Work> http://www.twitch.tv/joindotared 17:17:56 <Xaroth|Work> there's usually a dozen on twitch.tv 17:18:01 <Xaroth|Work> sometimes players themselves streaming 17:18:19 <frosch123> that's the normal case for sc2 :p 17:18:30 <Xaroth|Work> but once a tournament is up, like now, people all huddle up at the 'professional' casters 17:18:31 *** frosch123 is now known as frosch 17:18:34 <Xaroth|Work> who actually know where to look :P 17:18:56 <V453000> frosch: that "chat feature" is seriously annoying :( could you please put that back 17:19:27 <frosch> well, i never login to any forum for just reading, so i naturally also get some dota2 stuff via teamliquid.net :p 17:19:41 <frosch> V453000: what's the problem? 17:20:05 <frosch> is esc working and it should not, or is it not working and it should? 17:21:06 <V453000> not working and it hell should :D you cant cancel chat other than by pressing enter to send it atm 17:21:25 <V453000> which is horrible :( 17:21:30 <frosch> well, i did not remove it :p 17:21:38 <V453000> it is somehow broken now :( 17:21:43 <V453000> idk who did :P 17:21:49 <frosch> works for me 17:22:18 <frosch> do you have any other window open, which might catch the esc? 17:22:29 <V453000> are you shitting me :D idk 17:22:50 <frosch> well, does anything else happen when you press esc? 17:22:57 <frosch> like cancel tool, close other window? 17:23:21 <frosch> anyway, esc works fine for me, if cursor is inside chatbox 17:23:28 <V453000> and outside? 17:23:44 <V453000> oh you mean the | cursor 17:23:56 <frosch> yes, keyboard focus 17:23:57 <V453000> sec im going to try it in starcraft 17:24:07 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:24:10 <frosch> what? :p 17:24:15 <Wolf01> what? 17:24:26 <V453000> WHERE ELSE :D 17:24:33 <V453000> to use esc key 17:24:50 <frosch> Wolf01: V did hit ESC too hard, and now the key is broken 17:24:56 <Wolf01> ahah 17:24:57 <frosch> and he tries to blame ottd on that 17:25:31 <V453000> seriously I am using this keyboard for 2 weeks or less 17:25:33 <V453000> :d 17:25:53 <frosch> ah, then it's obviously the keyboard 17:26:02 <frosch> my keyboard is 15 years old 17:26:10 <V453000> its total shit though, must get my mechanical beast asap 17:26:21 <frosch> why should a key break from one day to another if it managed 15 years? 17:26:58 <V453000> my keyboard is shit, not questioning your 15 year old thing 17:27:32 <frosch> oh, i am lieing, it already has an euro symbol, so it's likely only 10 or so 17:27:48 *** flaa [~flaa@89.100.79.103] has joined #openttd 17:28:06 <V453000> ofc my keyboard is broken 17:28:07 <V453000> :D 17:28:09 <V453000> gg 17:28:10 <Rubidium> the simpler the keyboard, the better it (generally) is 17:28:12 <V453000> sorry :> 17:28:30 <frosch> i also have access to a classic ibm M monstee 17:28:53 <V453000> you have a mechanical keyboard frosch ? 17:29:36 <frosch> no idea actually, back then they did not have so fancy names 17:29:46 <frosch> but it does noise and it works :) 17:29:58 <frosch> and you can press the space bar on either end, and it gets the trigger 17:30:06 <V453000> likely mechanical then ... :) I plan on getting one too in the near future 17:30:11 * peter1139 has one with cherry mx blues 17:30:18 <peter1139> not quite the same as model m-ness 17:30:21 <V453000> I cant seem to decide between browns and blues 17:30:48 <peter1139> it's a ducky zero, so no pointless frills 17:31:00 <peter1139> although i remapped the volume keys into media keys 17:31:01 <V453000> I am getting wasd keyboard :) 17:31:10 <peter1139> heh 17:31:20 <peter1139> i have pink wasd i could put on, but i decided not to :p 17:31:24 <peter1139> +caps 17:31:39 <V453000> I mean the wasdkeyboards brand, not that it has mardked wasd keycaps :D 17:31:43 <peter1139> yes i know 17:31:55 <V453000> :) 17:32:35 <V453000> I was wondering if it is that much of a problem to "double click" etc with blues? 17:32:46 <V453000> I mean, many gaming keyboards use it too, so ... :s 17:32:55 <peter1139> not really 17:33:12 <peter1139> activation pressure is quite low though so sometimes i mis-press 17:33:26 <V453000> hm well brown is even less stiff isnt it 17:34:13 <peter1139> slightly 17:34:47 <peter1139> MX white is a stiffer click switch but nobody uses it 17:35:02 <V453000> ok, yesterday I was more leaned towards brown, today I dont know what :D 17:35:18 <peter1139> yeah i ummed and ahhed over it 17:35:32 <peter1139> i basically only went with the blue cos i'd tried it briefly 17:35:43 <peter1139> on a razor keyboard iirc 17:36:02 <peter1139> tried reds on a corsair but that wasn't for me 17:36:07 <V453000> I am kind of like, if mechanical keyboard, then make it have the mechanical features it should have 17:36:31 <V453000> mhm, I think the tactile thingy is nice, so I dont really consider reds/blacks 17:37:48 <V453000> cherry mx clear == white? 17:38:42 <V453000> hm no :) 17:38:59 <peter1139> nope :) 17:39:10 <peter1139> the corsair was a con, only the main keys are cherries 17:39:38 <peter1139> f-keys and some others are rubber dome 17:40:00 <V453000> hm 17:40:04 <V453000> :) 17:41:18 <V453000> http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/wasd-v1-custom-keyboard.html?kt=1&k=1&s=d3b875cefc3c11eddf86fa9923926b40 my layout so far :) 17:43:28 * peter1139 waits for flash to load 17:43:36 <peter1139> that's... different 17:43:52 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387A25D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:44:37 <peter1139> Rage Lock 17:44:40 *** Supercheese [~Password4@98.145.153.126] has joined #openttd 17:44:45 <frosch> it clearly lacks unicorns 17:45:17 <V453000> top priority: it has Any key 17:46:42 <V453000> anyway, the logic is to have "checkerboard" for first-sight obviousnes which key is which, also they are engraved in checkerboard 17:47:11 <frosch> | \ has wrong colour 17:48:07 <V453000> white :) 17:49:37 <V453000> http://www.flickr.com/photos/wasdkeyboards this is awesome bt 17:49:40 <V453000> some are really funny 17:49:46 <V453000> e.g. whole clear keyboard with only ASDF :D 17:51:58 <frosch> i like the complete black one without labels :p 17:52:07 <frosch> such a contrast to the rest :p 17:52:24 <Eddi|zuHause> for the record, i hate "wasd"-type of controls 17:52:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't control faster/slower and left/right with the same hand 17:53:46 <frosch> racing games are not taken serious anyway 17:54:08 <V453000> :D 17:54:31 <frosch> V453000: why do all of those keyboards have win keys? 17:54:43 <V453000> most games are on windoze? :D 17:54:45 <frosch> i know so many people and gamers who remove those keys from their keyboard 17:54:52 <V453000> idk but you can remove it with linux penguin 17:55:00 <Aristide> Drive bus or train in openttd can be fun 17:55:00 <V453000> ah that you mean 17:55:09 <V453000> well, idk, iz standard 17:55:22 *** jane_dfg [~G25@217.25.31.183] has joined #openttd 17:55:26 <V453000> most "truly gaming" keyboards have a switch to disable it along with alt tab etc 17:55:40 <Supercheese> The left Windows key is a very useful key 17:55:45 <Supercheese> the right Windows key, not so much 17:55:45 <frosch> well, it feels so common, that it is surprising that it is no option in a completely individual layout .p 17:55:59 <Supercheese> same with right ctrl, who the hell uses right ctrl 17:56:03 <Supercheese> or right shift 17:56:16 *** jane_dfg [~G25@217.25.31.183] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:20 <frosch> right shift is common, if i need to type with one hand or so 17:56:30 <V453000> ^ but right ctrl is really worthless 17:56:40 <V453000> idk what right alt is for either 17:56:54 <frosch> yeah, the text on the right ctrl is a lot better readable :p 17:57:10 <frosch> right alt is an important thing on german keyboards 17:57:15 <frosch> you get fancy characters with it 17:57:42 <V453000> I guess that is why there is Alt Gr eh :D 17:57:44 <Supercheese> I don't think I've ever pressed my right alt or right ctrl 17:57:52 <frosch> some years back i always mapped right alt on the right windows key, because it is in the place where the right alt was before :p 17:58:24 <Xaroth|Work> I only use it because dota uses it.. else the right ctrl/alt are never used 17:58:33 *** Kyler [~oftc-webi@adsl-98-93-194-50.owb.bellsouth.net] has joined #openttd 17:58:35 <Kyler> hello 17:58:37 <V453000> http://www.flickr.com/photos/wasdkeyboards/8456772933/ this is amazing 17:58:38 <Supercheese> ... well, I just did :P 17:59:01 <frosch> i like the f10 :) 17:59:15 <V453000> indeed :D 17:59:34 <Kyler> how is eveyone 17:59:48 *** ntoskrnl11 [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:59:54 <Xaroth|Work> hot 18:00:12 <Kyler> why 18:00:19 <Xaroth|Work> because it's 30+C inside atm :| 18:00:37 <LordAro> ^ 18:00:40 <Kyler> i dont know C temps i only know F temps 18:00:53 <Supercheese> Must be a fellow American 18:00:54 <Kyler> cause im 11 18:00:58 <LordAro> 85+ ish 18:00:59 <Kyler> and thata 18:01:00 <LordAro> i think 18:01:06 <Kyler> oh wow 18:01:11 <Xaroth|Work> 91F 18:01:13 <Xaroth|Work> atm 18:01:38 <Xaroth|Work> you can always do "30C in F" in google 18:01:43 <Xaroth|Work> it'll convert for you 18:01:45 <Kyler> one time at my house it got to 103F , ya ture 18:01:59 <Kyler> true* 18:02:05 <Xaroth|Work> well, it was 95 in the office earlier 18:02:07 <frosch> Xaroth|Work: 100F is the temperature of a healthy cow 18:02:08 <Eddi|zuHause> my keyboard only has a left windows key 18:02:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it did annoy me a handful of times in the beginning 18:02:49 <Xaroth|Work> frosch: that helps.. i guess 18:02:51 <peter1139> back in the day we were annoyed that they existed at all ;p 18:03:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i use win+stuff as some global hotkeys 18:03:31 *** Kyler [~oftc-webi@adsl-98-93-194-50.owb.bellsouth.net] has quit [] 18:03:57 <Supercheese> The only good celsius temperatures I can easily recall are 0C = 32F for freezing, 100C = 212F for boiling, and 37C = 98.6F for human body temperature 18:04:10 <Supercheese> anything in between is nebulous 18:04:19 <LordAro> and -40 = -40 :) 18:04:27 <Supercheese> -40 is useless 18:04:39 <Rubidium> and 0K is no movement except quantum mechanics 18:04:54 <Xaroth|Work> kelvin is easy 18:04:54 <Eddi|zuHause> of course you don't get used to celsius temperatures if you don't use them 18:05:03 <frosch> Rubidium: yeah, that summarised the discussion :) 18:05:22 <Xaroth|Work> K = C+273.15 18:05:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: might want to add 21°C = room temperature 18:05:55 <Supercheese> and then there's the Rankine scale 18:06:03 <Supercheese> which is just ridiculous 18:06:19 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: that's quite subjective; 18°C is enough ;) 18:06:21 <Xaroth|Work> Eddi|zuHause: my room disagrees :P 18:06:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i prefer it a bit warmer 18:06:58 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: head off to Japan 18:07:06 <Eddi|zuHause> more like 23°C 18:07:18 <Rubidium> a cozy 27°C in the train and some offices 18:07:24 *** Supercheese [~Password4@98.145.153.126] has left #openttd [] 18:07:28 *** Supercheese [~Password4@98.145.153.126] has joined #openttd 18:07:29 <Rubidium> in the 'midst' of winter 18:07:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i can have 42°C in the train right here :p 18:08:24 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but for that you get a special discount ;) 18:09:30 <Supercheese> http://bigstory.ap.org/photo/japan-train-rescue 18:10:20 <Supercheese> I guess the best solution was just to shove the train over a bit 18:12:30 *** Jomann [~abchirk@f052146212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:13:26 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 18:14:21 <Rubidium> yup, but probably only in Japan 18:14:48 <Rubidium> here they would've shut down the station and let the fire department handle it 18:14:58 <Rubidium> I reckon the same in the US 18:15:13 <Rubidium> in India and China they probably don't even bother 18:19:39 *** abchirk_ [~abchirk@g229172004.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:21:42 <frosch> the most annoying mysql and psql difference are the backquotes 18:22:03 *** dryerlint_ [~dryerlint@204-195-36-252.wavecable.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:22:57 *** dryerlint [~dryerlint@204-195-36-252.wavecable.com] has joined #openttd 18:29:22 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 18:32:59 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 18:34:58 <LordAro> hmm, this looks fairly fun: https://github.com/thekarangoel/Projects 18:38:14 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 18:42:33 *** Aristide [~quassel@81.253.48.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:45:13 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 18:58:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:59:46 <andythenorth> so conditional nml around property blocks (action 6?) 19:00:22 * andythenorth -> newgrf wiki :P 19:00:31 <andythenorth> also.... (1) am I correct that OpenTTD disables vehicle if not refittable any cargo? 19:00:44 <frosch> yes 19:00:56 <andythenorth> (2) could OpenTTD handle a cascading list of default cargos instead of me doing it in newgrf (but let the newgrf specify list)? 19:00:58 <frosch> well, if they are supposed to carry cargo 19:01:27 <frosch> (2) it picks cargos in order of your ctt 19:01:40 <andythenorth> orly? o_O 19:01:47 <frosch> grfv8 or so 19:01:52 <andythenorth> how interesting 19:02:10 <andythenorth> not sure I'll be able to structure that in an order that works for all vehicles 19:04:06 <frosch> well, those vehicle which refit to the same will also have the same default then 19:04:21 <frosch> unless you set a speciific default which is also available 19:05:19 <andythenorth> ordering a single list for multiple cases is more than my brain can handle 19:05:22 <andythenorth> at least, in this heat 19:06:42 <frosch> just put your favorites in front 19:07:08 <V453000> you cant put things in front of your brain 19:07:17 <andythenorth> you can too 19:07:23 <andythenorth> but sometimes they fall into the back again 19:07:26 <andythenorth> or the underneath 19:07:47 <andythenorth> so my cargo table is made from a dict :P 19:07:53 <andythenorth> that might be very unwise actually 19:08:08 <andythenorth> means my cargo table could be non-deterministic for a given compile 19:08:11 <andythenorth> which breaks saves 19:08:13 <andythenorth> ugh 19:08:32 <andythenorth> never thought of 19:08:35 <andythenorth> that 19:08:52 <V453000> when reading non-deterministic, my brain wants to commit suicide 19:09:11 <frosch> andythenorth: it does not break saves 19:09:20 <frosch> it only affects newly purchases vehicles 19:09:52 <frosch> anyway, does anyone bother about the default cargo of refittable vehicles? 19:10:14 <frosch> why some cargo more likely to be the one you need? 19:10:41 <andythenorth> (1) some are silly choices, as they are imho less used 19:10:50 <frosch> V453000: non-deterministic turing machines are quite useful 19:10:53 <frosch> i wish i had one 19:10:58 <andythenorth> (2) I *think* I'm going to have broken capacity - HEQS certainly does 19:11:15 <frosch> ah, true, if you use the old capacity mechanics 19:11:18 <andythenorth> by controlling the default cargos, I can also fix capacity at same time 19:11:31 <andythenorth> tbh, I have read the refitting page so many times, and I have no idea still :) 19:11:35 <frosch> i guess that was also the reason it was changed in v8 :p 19:11:38 <andythenorth> also nml hides it all from me 19:12:00 <frosch> afaik nml does it still wrong (tm) 19:12:17 <andythenorth> for the amount of work involved, I might as well do it right myself 19:12:23 <frosch> it tries to hide cb36 and cb15, which can only fail 19:12:26 <andythenorth> it's not much code, just a bit of conceptual overhead 19:12:28 *** permagreen [~donovan@204-195-27-175.wavecable.com] has joined #openttd 19:12:59 <andythenorth> instead of default_cargo = COAL, I have default_cargos = [COAL, IORE, CORE] etc 19:13:08 <andythenorth> and iterate generating property block each time 19:13:18 <frosch> so, well, put all normal cargos at the front of your ctt 19:13:23 <frosch> and all the fancy ones at the end 19:13:31 <andythenorth> yup, considering that too 19:13:39 <andythenorth> I am 80% done on the first option :P 19:13:43 <andythenorth> but hey, I could revert 19:14:59 <andythenorth> I have to fix the CTT anyway 19:15:08 <andythenorth> I'll use a nasty two-tuple thing :P 19:15:31 <andythenorth> Alberth: there's some python structure like a dict, but made of two tuples in a list? 19:15:35 <andythenorth> or did I invent that? 19:18:05 <V453000> the almighty restart button fixed my Esc key 19:18:07 <V453000> :) 19:19:36 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:19:36 <Alberth> andythenorth: ?? 19:19:37 <andythenorth> hmm 19:19:39 <frosch> you canceled the keyboard software? 19:20:02 <andythenorth> Alberth: it's a PHP-esque thing [(key, value), (key, value)] 19:20:14 <andythenorth> used in some cases where a dict would usually be wanted, but needs a predictable order 19:20:21 <Alberth> {1:2, 3:4}.items() 19:20:58 <Alberth> oh, there are some ordered dicts 19:21:23 <andythenorth> http://docs.python.org/2/library/collections.html 19:21:26 <andythenorth> that might help 19:21:41 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-010-221.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 19:21:43 <Alberth> don't know when they got introduced exactly, but otherwise python-only version float around for earlier versions 19:21:48 <andythenorth> I think I was talking about named tuple 19:22:09 <andythenorth> herp, so frosch I am baffled by what FISH is actually doing with default cargos 19:22:31 <andythenorth> no I'm not, I'm just wrong, sorry :P 19:23:08 <Alberth> the OrderedDict link has link to a 2.4+ version at the bottom, if your Python is < 2.7 19:24:30 <V453000> frosch: this piece of wtf has no software 19:25:27 <frosch> i doubt that 19:25:53 <frosch> pc keyboards always had microprocessers 19:26:14 <frosch> i do not recall any system where the matrixconnectors (30 pins) were weird into the computer 19:27:06 <frosch> only floppy drives and crt monitors did such weird things 19:27:33 <frosch> oh, any joysticks 19:27:57 <Xaroth|Work> andythenorth: {}.items() returns a list of tuples 19:28:06 <frosch> yeah, classic joystricks are the worst piece of hardware there was 19:28:08 <Xaroth|Work> dict() accepts such a list to turn it into a dict 19:28:12 <andythenorth> in a predictable order from a regular dict? 19:28:20 <Xaroth|Work> not really 19:28:23 <andythenorth> nah 19:28:27 <andythenorth> I need ordered dict 19:28:29 <andythenorth> I'll try it 19:28:34 <Xaroth|Work> then ordereddict is what you need 19:28:46 <Xaroth|Work> does it need to be ordered, or sorted? 19:29:13 <Xaroth|Work> (as in, does a,c,b need to come out as a,b,c or a,c,b 19:29:30 <Xaroth|Work> latter requires ordereddict 19:29:41 <Xaroth|Work> first is sorted({}.items()) 19:29:54 <andythenorth> needs ordered 19:29:58 <andythenorth> dict is declared only once 19:30:04 <andythenorth> and won't be amended by any code 19:30:29 <andythenorth> but I need order of keys and values to be returned consistently for all compiles on all architectures 19:30:47 <Alberth> build the dict from the list? 19:31:02 <Xaroth|Work> tbh, I then usually go for sorted approach 19:31:26 <Xaroth|Work> means data returned is also somewhat intuitive 19:31:40 <Alberth> sorted is also a form of ordered :p 19:31:48 <andythenorth> I could just use a list of 2-tuples, but then I don't learn how ordered dict works ;) 19:32:12 <Xaroth|Work> ordered dict is a normal dict, except when looping over the keys you get them in the order you entered them into the dict 19:32:14 <andythenorth> hmm, I have python 2.6.8 19:32:24 <andythenorth> lame 19:32:54 <Xaroth|Work> which has it's obvious pitfalls 19:34:09 <andythenorth> planetmaker: what python version is devzone using to build newgrfs? 19:39:19 <andythenorth> or I could use this http://code.activestate.com/recipes/576693/ 19:39:34 <andythenorth> copy it to my own module? 19:39:36 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has joined #openttd 19:39:39 <andythenorth> then import? 19:39:52 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58_11 19:42:53 <Xaroth|Work> that would work 19:45:14 *** Pol [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:35 <andythenorth> http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=444237&nseq=2 19:50:48 <andythenorth> also... http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=444203&nseq=8 19:51:00 <andythenorth> tropic + salt lakes :P 19:51:25 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.hdsnet.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:54 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:04:35 *** y2000rtc [~y2000rtc@cst-prg-85-18.cust.vodafone.cz] has joined #openttd 20:17:21 *** zooks [~zooks@vhe-540241.sshn.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:28:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A581.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:33:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.166.166] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:39:50 *** Wuzzy [~Wuzzy@0001b11e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Wuzzy] 20:42:54 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.hdsnet.hu] has joined #openttd 20:43:03 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.hdsnet.hu] has quit [] 20:48:24 *** y2000rtc [~y2000rtc@cst-prg-85-18.cust.vodafone.cz] has quit [] 20:51:46 *** notbigfoot [~molsen@x1-6-10-0d-7f-b2-03-02.k350.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 20:51:56 <notbigfoot> Hi again, guys 20:52:05 <krinn> hi 20:52:06 <notbigfoot> I have two more issues with OpenTTD now... 20:52:56 <notbigfoot> Firstly I'm trying to remotely change the map size of a server. I have rcon access. I assume that the command 'rcon <password> setting game_creation.map_x 9' would take care of it for the one dimension at least, but no matter what arguments I give to the 'setting' command, it just echos the usage instructions back 20:53:43 <notbigfoot> The second issue is that after I press alt+enter to get to full screen, the keyboard no longer works for entering actual text (such as server passwords upon connecting), but ingame hotkeys still work. Running on Linux. 20:53:48 <notbigfoot> And OpenTTD 1.3.1 20:57:15 <krinn> never use rcon but http://wiki.openttd.org/Console#Server_commands says you should do rcon ... set settingyouwish 20:58:10 <krinn> so must be <set game_creation.map...> but i never use them 20:58:37 <notbigfoot> 'set' seems to just be a shorthand... It echoes the exact same usage instructions back as when I type 'setting' 20:59:46 <krinn> set <setting_name> [<newvalue>] 21:00:06 <krinn> If <newvalue> is ommitted 21:00:06 <krinn> the current value is printed. 21:00:22 <notbigfoot> Yeah, that's what it tells me when I try both with and without a value :P 21:00:29 <krinn> :) 21:01:47 <krinn> i don't know then 21:02:02 <krinn> wait answer from someone who knows 21:02:52 <notbigfoot> :) 21:02:55 <michi_cc> notbigfoot: The wiki page says it is rcon <password> "<command>", i.e. note the "'s. 21:03:59 <notbigfoot> Oh 21:04:01 <notbigfoot> Let's see 21:04:24 <notbigfoot> Tadaa, that seemed to work. Thanks. 21:08:43 <notbigfoot> Any idea for the second issue? 21:08:45 <notbigfoot> :) 21:09:09 <frosch> update 21:09:20 <frosch> keyboard in linux fullscreen was fixed 21:09:24 <krinn> sadly not, if hotkeys works, your keyboard handler is working 21:09:29 <krinn> ah 21:10:18 <frosch> https://secure.openttd.org/wiki/OpenTTD_1.3.2 <- listed in 1.3.2-RC1 21:11:18 <frosch> but, well, if you play multiplayer, i guess you have to live with it for now 21:11:27 <frosch> just maximize window instead of fullscreen :) 21:14:02 <frosch> night 21:14:05 *** frosch [~frosch@frnk-590d59fa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:18:11 *** Alberth [~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:23:03 <Wolf01> 'night 21:23:09 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:27:11 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has joined #openttd 21:30:22 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 21:31:44 *** DarkAceZ [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:31:46 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 21:37:27 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@200.146.82.48.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 21:41:31 <Eddi|zuHause> did anyone ever test how the CETS turning magic looks after a crash? 21:42:19 *** Progman [~progman@p57A182ED.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:20 <krinn> i don't even know what CETS is :) 21:42:58 <Eddi|zuHause> if you knew, you'd go NUTS! :p 21:43:26 <NGC3982> Evening 21:43:29 <NGC3982> Basterds. 21:43:45 <krinn> yeah we love u too NGC3982 21:44:01 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, google answer -> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/cets 21:44:41 <Eddi|zuHause> OH NO, HE FOUND OUT!! 21:45:04 <krinn> google is watching you 21:45:17 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: be aware that 90% of the vehicles will be green boxes 21:45:37 <krinn> lmao and look redbox on crash ? 21:45:59 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the crash palette is automatic 21:46:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so it will be grey boxes :p 21:46:10 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-010-221.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 21:46:29 <NGC3982> I wonder how many dedicated servers my poor P4 can withstand. 21:47:32 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: as long as the server is the slowest of the players, everything should be fine :) 21:47:52 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@89.137.75.224] has quit [] 21:48:33 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: also be aware that 90% of the vehicles means around 900 different vehicles :p 21:48:42 <NGC3982> :> 21:48:51 *** VidTheKid [~dexter@99-177-172-109.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Going back to Dexter's laboratory...] 21:49:39 <krinn> 900! 21:50:03 <Eddi|zuHause> code generators are bad :p 21:50:15 *** DarkAce-Z is now known as DarkAceZ 21:50:19 <krinn> and how a user is suppose to pickup a vehicle with a 1000 choices ? 21:50:46 <Eddi|zuHause> there are filters before game start (parameters) 21:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, might be an evil test for your AI :p 21:52:01 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@200.146.82.48.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:52:04 <krinn> it have a generic code for that, so it will handle it pretty nice :) 21:52:13 <krinn> (i do that as i was getting mad with newGRF) 21:52:28 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: well, the vehicles are longer than default vehicles :p 21:52:59 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:53:01 <krinn> lol it handle length too, just it doesn't look sweet for the twohead trains 21:53:10 * NGC3982 puts stuff in __ln__ 21:53:28 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@200.146.82.48.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 21:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: but please, do run a test 21:53:53 <krinn> the newgrf is in bananas? 21:54:09 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: if you want something with real graphics, try the prussian trains from ~1880-1920 21:54:11 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: no 21:54:18 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: not released yet 21:54:31 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: you can find the download link from the page above 21:54:38 <krinn> ok going there 21:55:07 <krinn> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/cets/nightlies/LATEST/cets-r760.zip ? 21:55:19 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds right 21:55:19 <krinn> or those are source ? 21:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> no, sources would have "-src" in it 21:56:05 <krinn> put that in ~/.openttd/newgrf ? 21:56:29 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.212.44] has joined #openttd 21:56:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 21:57:51 <krinn> must set start date 1920 ? 21:58:12 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host217-43-119-57.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:58:19 <Aristide> Hi ! 21:58:23 <Eddi|zuHause> can do 1870 for some parameter settings 21:58:47 <krinn> wait a sec, the AI isn't in a "can run state" now :) 21:59:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what "hg revert" is for :p 22:00:17 <Aristide> Its possible to get EAP SIM login for Computer ? 22:00:29 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, what the! sure not ! 22:03:57 <krinn> in a sec i will tell you the picked engine 22:04:54 *** strohi [~smoofi@cpe-0018f841fb5c.ip-pool.rftonline.net] has joined #openttd 22:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: the general design of the set is that for each company/region (selcted by parameter) you get a set of (heavy freight, light freight, branch line passenger, main line passenger, long-distance passenger) engines, about every 10 years 22:05:48 *** strohalm [~smoofi@cpe-0018f841fb5c.ip-pool.rftonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:15 <krinn> AI choose S 7(K.P.St.E) 22:09:03 <krinn> but can't tell you wagons, crash there (because of my changes i'm doing to avoid too long to save crash) 22:09:48 <Eddi|zuHause> 1920? default parameters? 22:10:15 <krinn> yes 22:10:18 <krinn> didn't change a thing 22:10:25 <krinn> add newgrf, set date, run 22:10:58 <krinn> oh i can even tell you wagon 22:11:03 <krinn> because it's log 22:11:35 <krinn> it refit it for coal : German Wagon Asso.. series A10 22:13:31 <Eddi|zuHause> S7 doesn't sound right, it's not even available (anymore) in my test game 22:13:54 <krinn> well, AI cannot pickup something it cannot create 22:13:55 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:13:58 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 22:14:14 <krinn> wait a sec, running console you'll get copy/paste of log 22:14:29 <Eddi|zuHause> what data is your decision based on? 22:14:42 <krinn> depend on money i have in hands 22:14:43 <Eddi|zuHause> price? power? tractive effort? 22:14:58 <krinn> i look at it 1s 22:15:38 <krinn> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/5e046139e0c1/entry/train/trainbuilder.nut line 82 22:15:45 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, things with "S" in them usually are a bad idea for freight, as "S" means "Schnellzug" (express passenger) :) 22:15:48 *** notbigfoot [~molsen@x1-6-10-0d-7f-b2-03-02.k350.webspeed.dk] has left #openttd [Leaving] 22:16:29 <krinn> :) AI don't care about it i have a setting for that 22:17:29 <krinn> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/9f2db44a2684/entry/readme look the "Use trains for anything" flag 22:18:32 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p3EE3FF4A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 22:18:45 <fjb_mobile> Moin. 22:19:08 <planetmaker> ho fjb_mobile 22:19:13 <planetmaker> you still got my address? 22:19:16 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-1-250.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:20:17 <fjb_mobile> Don't think so. I guess I wold find the street. 22:20:17 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.212.44] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:55 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: i don't understand that thing about flags 22:21:35 <krinn> It's how i try to explain it, as i don't know the newGRF properties that define that 22:21:47 <planetmaker> do you please bring insulation matrace and sleeping bag (if you stay over night as I assume)? 22:21:48 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: anyway, my set doesn't enforce any "X cannot attach to Y" rules 22:21:53 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387A25D.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 22:22:37 <krinn> New #33 Train 0(Open wagon (German Wagon Association series A10)) created with Open wagon (German Wagon Association series A10) 22:22:48 <krinn> and it's 1920 for the date 22:22:49 *** amiller [~amiller@129-2-129-154.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:23:09 <krinn> New #31 Train 1(S 7 (K.P.St" target="_blank">K.P.St.E.)) created with S 7 (K.P.St" target="_blank">K.P.St.E.) 22:23:48 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.212.44] has joined #openttd 22:24:01 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91-65-210-133-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 22:24:17 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.212.44] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24:21 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: do you have engines never expire on? 22:24:28 <krinn> yes 22:24:38 <Eddi|zuHause> that explains it... 22:24:44 *** kais58_12 [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 22:24:54 <krinn> oh, that one should have been taken away already? 22:25:01 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 22:25:29 <krinn> need restart if i disable it ? 22:25:34 <Eddi|zuHause> engines are only available until a new design of the same transportation category becomes available 22:25:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you should probably start a new game after disabling it 22:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause> or type "resetengines" 22:26:29 *** kais58_11 [~kais58@cpc8-cwma7-2-0-cust113.7-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:26:32 <krinn> i disable it and restart 22:27:17 <krinn> Wagon Open wagon (German Wagon Association series A10) can be use with P 3/5 N (K.Bay.Sts.B., 38â°) 22:27:23 <krinn> with engine expiration on 22:27:46 <krinn> i block the AI to only do industry, it's again coal transport 22:29:11 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.212.44] has joined #openttd 22:29:14 <Eddi|zuHause> for a cargo train, you'd usually want an engine with "G" in it. they are usually low speed (doesn't matter since the wagon speed limit is low), but have high power and TE 22:29:37 <krinn> :) i don't have wagon speed limit 22:29:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well, then 90% of the engines won't make any sense :) 22:30:28 <krinn> well, it's more 99.99% 22:30:54 <krinn> as soon as engineX is state as good from XX engines choice, you can say all other engine won't get used 22:32:01 <krinn> it evolve because of running cost, breakdown, but it still steady choice (except if new engine come out) 22:32:55 <Aristide> I like opening theme of Doctor Who < 22:32:56 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, if you don't have wagon speed limits, choosing a low-speed engine for freight is a silly idea 22:32:57 <Aristide> <3 22:33:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Aristide: which era? 22:33:27 <Aristide> Eddi|zuHause: You don't know Doctor Who ? :o 22:33:37 <krinn> i didn't think about wagon speed limit, but i implement freight as adding an extra engine 22:33:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Aristide: i do 22:33:51 <Aristide> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mxHe8T_QVA 22:33:53 <krinn> i will alter the decision maker when wagon speed limit is on 22:34:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Aristide: but the opening theme varies throughout the 50 years it is on air 22:34:28 *** MatrixCL [~mielipuol@host-109-204-157-114.tp-fne.tampereenpuhelin.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 22:34:29 <Aristide> Oh okay 22:34:34 <Aristide> Eddi|zuHause: For S4 22:34:45 <krinn> http://www.google.fr/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CDEQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbdTELokKfCk&ei=e7PtUa6XBtLM0AWbnYCQDg&usg=AFQjCNG9MCeqBg4PNb1N_KzBhZI8jaD75Q&bvm=bv.49478099,d.d2k 22:35:09 <krinn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdTELokKfCk (better, that's link to klf version,i like this one) 22:35:27 <Aristide> Ok :) 22:35:44 *** kais58_12 is now known as kais58|AFK 22:35:54 <Aristide> klf version ? 22:36:17 <krinn> old group 22:36:19 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:36:25 <Aristide> Ah ok 22:37:06 <krinn> lol to stay openttd : i suppose last train to transcentral is the top known KLF song 22:37:42 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: i guess without speed limits, P 3/5 isn't that bad of a choice. the S 3/6 would be a bit faster and significantly stronger, though 22:38:19 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, but it's a choice restrict by poor money, the S 3/6 should be a worst choice because of running cost or price 22:38:26 <krinn> want me retry with AI full of money ? 22:39:41 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, my database shows i have 4 tracks of KLF, but none of the titles mean anything to me... 22:40:08 <krinn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gM09iw75-g the top known 22:40:46 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, running costs might be a little steep 22:40:57 <krinn> Wagon Wood car (German Wagon Association series A5) can be use with P 3/5 H (bay., 38âŽ) (with lot of money to carry wood) 22:41:26 *** flaa [~flaa@89.100.79.103] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:42:07 <Aristide> Ahaha 22:42:12 <Aristide> You can use tardis in Minecraft x) 22:43:00 <Aristide> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKBSWY2jnGw :') 22:44:15 <krinn> :) 22:44:21 <krinn> like the switchs 22:44:24 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: not really my type of music 22:44:42 <Eddi|zuHause> this "3AM Eternal" sounds familiar, but the other ones not... 22:44:59 <Aristide> krinn: :) 22:45:46 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, that's oldies, i have a big limit for music taste, with a strong point set to rap, omg, i hate rap so much 22:46:31 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, but i suppose it came from "french (c)rap) 22:46:49 <Aristide> I dont know if time traveling its possible in Minecraft :') 22:47:03 <Aristide> You create a house, and back to paste, and you see yourself building house :') 22:47:12 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i don't like rap, but making it in french raise that dislike to hate :P 22:47:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:48:21 <Aristide> Ahaha its possible x) 22:51:38 <Zuu> krinn: A game setting that is not uncommon that players tune is the wagon weight multiplier. Some set it to eg. 5 or even higher so that freight trains need stronger/more engines. Also note that the weight multiplier applies only to the loaded weight. 22:51:56 *** amiller [~amiller@pool-96-255-47-217.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 22:53:15 <Zuu> Since introduction of new slope handling for RVs and the slope factor there, in theory AIs need to take slope grade into account for RVs. However, as RVs are self-contained units, one can suppose that most players will not set slope settings for RVs that render some vehicles useless. 22:53:33 *** NeuhNeuh [~quassel@37.175.212.44] has joined #openttd 22:53:34 <krinn> Zuu : i handle this one, but my handling is limited to add another engine (that will not be made if train is dualhead soon because of Eddi|zuHause addition) 22:54:37 <Zuu> With a steep slope and/or high weight multiplier you can get stale trains in slopes also with dual heads. Especially in the early years with weaker engines. 22:54:46 <krinn> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/901991ceade7/entry/class/ccargo.nut i look at IsFreight 22:55:34 <Zuu> What is problematic is if trains need to stop on a signal just below a long slope. Then they will crawl up slow (as in 1-5 km/h) all way to the top of the slope. 22:56:46 <krinn> i might need to fine tune that, but later, when the AI can handle trains a bit better 22:57:16 <Zuu> Ah, so you will use more than two engines if "freight_trains" is high. 22:57:25 <Zuu> Do you always use TL=5? 22:57:37 <krinn> 3 to 5 only 22:57:47 <Zuu> Ok 22:57:49 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.212.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:57:51 <Eddi|zuHause> btw: the doctor who theme was one of the first synthesised pieces of music in the world. that was before synthesizers were even invented 22:58:43 <Zuu> krinn: In addition to "freight_trains" which I think is the weight multiplier setting, there is also a slope steepness setting which affects trains (at least with realistic acceleration) 22:58:50 <krinn> Zuu, on easy game, the poor AI won't handle freight and suffer pain 22:59:05 <Zuu> Last, on original acceleration model, trains are more sensitive to slopes than default realistic acceleration settings. 22:59:58 <krinn> well, as you see, IsFreight will tell a number of wagon, if a train need more than that number, i add another train engine to the vehicle 23:00:27 <krinn> that might not be really the best thing to do, but it works not that bad 23:00:42 <Zuu> I see that. What I say is that that method probably need to take more into account than just "freight_trains" as there is at least three settings that come into my mind that will affect this. 23:00:50 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: this ominous "puller" flag puzzles me. what function are you checking there? 23:01:14 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, 1s i pickit up and show u 23:01:52 <Zuu> krinn: that said, what you do is still a good step forward. As long as you keep the slope steepness setting at the default value and use realistic accelleration your method probably works well. 23:02:08 <krinn> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/ai-dictator/repository/revisions/65dc57b5b623/entry/handler/enginehandler.nut line 200 23:02:21 <krinn> cEngine::CanPullCargo is where i handle that flag 23:03:46 <krinn> Zuu: i might change it a bit to handle Eddi|zuHause suggest earlier (the wagon speed limit) 23:04:17 <krinn> Zuu, so i will pickup another heuristic to choose engine because of wagon speed and the slope steepness might get than affect too 23:05:35 <Zuu> krinn: http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2423/ <-- shouldn't it say "if (NicePlay)" in your code? 23:06:06 <krinn> :D yes 23:06:34 *** fjb_mobile is now known as Guest702 23:06:34 *** Guest702 [~frank@p3EE3FF4A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:06:34 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p3EE3FF4A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 23:07:24 <krinn> Zuu, lost myself because the setting is true to get anything and false to restrict to newGRF choice 23:07:25 <Zuu> krinn: If you come up with something useful, I think it would be nice to have on bananas an engine/wagon/train selector/builder library. It's a quite complex task where of course different AIs could have different preferences, but it is also a lot of work to handle all settings, NewGRFs etc. 23:08:19 <krinn> well, except some special things in it for my AI, that cEngine class is working alone by overriding AIEngine 23:08:44 <krinn> so any AIEngine call, the cEngine class get it, and record itself what it can about engine: lenght, price... 23:09:50 <krinn> i suppose i could make it more generic by adding stuff i need elsewhere and publish that as a lib yes 23:11:38 <Zuu> If I ever is going to add train support to an AI, I would like to use building blocks created by others, as the whole task is quite large. 23:12:27 <krinn> that's really an hard task yes, didn't think about it when i start adding trains, so many parameters to think about! 23:12:30 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: ah, i found the property 23:12:31 <Zuu> I'm sure it is fun though and will be rewarding as you can probably make quite some good profit by it and I'm sure users will like the AI more if it has train support. 23:12:40 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: no, my set doesn't use that flag (yet) 23:13:11 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:13:21 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, can you tell me the real name so users reading the readme (lol like if that exist) won't kick me for not naming it like it should 23:13:38 <krinn> Zuu, look 23:13:40 <Eddi|zuHause> nml calls it "ai_special_flag", nfo "property 08" 23:13:54 <krinn> dbg: [script] [1] [I] cCarrier-> New #33 Train 0(Open wagon (narrow gauge)) created with Open wagon (narrow gauge) 23:13:54 <krinn> dbg: [script] [1] [I] Unknown-> Grabbing vehicle properties for Open wagon (narrow gauge) 23:13:54 <krinn> dbg: [script] [1] [I] Unknown-> Setting Open wagon (narrow gauge) refit costs to 199 when handling WOOD 23:14:04 <krinn> Unknown -> is cEngine at work 23:14:25 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, ok 23:14:41 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 23:15:13 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: is that from my set? 23:15:26 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, yes 23:15:28 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: where do you get the narrow gauge tracks from? 23:15:59 <krinn> i have only ects r760 loaded 23:16:27 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, you should not get narrow gauge vehicles then 23:16:38 *** fjb_mobile is now known as Guest704 23:16:38 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p3EE3FF4A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 23:17:03 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i don't get what you mean by that 23:17:46 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: narrow gauge vehicles should only appear if you load a track set that provides narrow gauge rails 23:18:40 <krinn> then something is wrong as it could be create with a "classic" depot 23:19:21 <Zuu> krinn: Creating a more powerfull version of an API class sounds like an option. However, it should probably not be named as the API class in a library. At lesat for SuperLib, I've dropped the AI/GS prefix for the library classes which are also namespaced into SuperLib.<SubClass> unless you create a global reference to it after the import statement. 23:19:36 *** Guest704 [~frank@p3EE3FF4A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:19:43 <krinn> the AI browse wagons, create one, look at its properties, then try grabbing another wagon: if the newerwagon == previous one, AI then use that, else AI delete the wagon, create new one and continue until previous==current 23:20:29 <NGC3982> That's weird. 23:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause> indeed, there's something wrong there if the default track set is loaded 23:20:37 <Zuu> So in your AI, when importing the library you can override the defalut API with the extended one, but it shouldn't happen automatically when the library is imported. 23:20:48 <NGC3982> The server suddenly doesn't understand that a specific port is open. 23:20:59 <krinn> because when create, properties are update and when update the new wagon choice picker may do a different choice base on new properties it discover 23:21:31 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: that is probably oberhÃŒmer's fault, but maybe it's actually me :p 23:21:37 <krinn> Zuu, i disable this, and move to a more saner form 23:22:24 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.212.44] has joined #openttd 23:22:43 <krinn> Zuu, i extend AIEngine so any properties not own by cEngine are read from AIEngine, and in the AI i have change any AIEngine ref to cEngine ref, this gave handling to cEngine that callback AIEngine for unkown property (that's squirrel feature) 23:23:21 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: that's why outside tests are useful... my personal test environment uses nutracks, and then things are different 23:23:38 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, i think if the wagon can be created at that depot, it will run on that rails too 23:23:41 <Zuu> Thus, a library should then offer cEngine and leave it up to the AI importing it to optionally override the default AIEngine reference. 23:24:00 <NGC3982> http://i.imgur.com/r6t0Jfe.png 23:24:00 <krinn> Zuu, yes 23:24:06 <NGC3982> Also: http://i.imgur.com/kG1wkpG.png 23:24:10 <NGC3982> This was mildly irritating. 23:24:41 <krinn> Zuu, and even with the lib, the AI need to really use the tools, and not except the lib do all work for it (even many are automated already) 23:25:13 <krinn> like picking the engine, if the AI doesn't do looping like i do 23:25:14 *** lugo [lugo@192.249.56.28] has joined #openttd 23:25:29 <krinn> the cEngine will answer false results for never created engine 23:26:06 <krinn> and the cEngine is made like that it hint the AI on pickup a never created engine first 23:26:36 *** NeuhNeuh [~quassel@37.175.212.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:26:40 <krinn> this.cargo_capacity.AddItem(crg,255); 23:26:40 <krinn> / 255 so it will appears to be a better carrier vs an already test engine 23:27:01 <Zuu> So cEngine suggest that the AI try out many different engines so that they get tested and the idea is to report back properties about the engine? 23:27:13 <krinn> if you query capacity for wood on a never built wagon that need to be refit to handle wood, the cEngine will tell you it have a 255 capacity for wood :) 23:27:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A581.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:27:53 <NGC3982> I have literaly no idea why it suddenly cannot advertise to the master server. 23:27:57 <krinn> once the AI create the wagon, the cEngine test refit on it, record cost and capacity and will return real result on next query 23:28:12 <NGC3982> And i hate having no idea on what to search after. 23:28:13 <Zuu> Ah, so for cEngine to work, you need to create a depot and quickly build all combinations that your are interesetd in evaluating? 23:28:41 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: usually it's one of 3 cases: you did something wrong, the other side did something wrong, or someone in the middle did something wrong 23:28:48 <krinn> Zuu, for best performance yes, but you can just not do that and keep the suggest engine (that won't be optimal at first answer) 23:28:56 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Of course. 23:29:04 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: My problem is, i have no idea why it shouldn't work. 23:29:20 <krinn> Zuu, the more you create the more the cEngine answer are fine 23:29:34 <Zuu> krinn: Did you know that NUTS monorail have wagons which have different properties depending on the engine it is attached to. (and the engine max speed depends on # of wagons) 23:29:42 <krinn> Zuu, you can already see it in previous dictatorai with truck and aircraft 23:29:43 <NGC3982> My normal setup for a new server is: Create a savegame, alter the server side openttd.cfg with a new port, and a new server name. I open the port in my router and start the savegame server-side. 23:29:56 <Eddi|zuHause> unless you're building an airport in a capital, then everyone does something wrong, and then employs even more people so the blame can be passed around to the next guy 23:30:02 <NGC3982> It has worked out so far, and all the first seven servers are still running. 23:30:30 <NGC3982> Oh 23:30:31 <NGC3982> .. 23:30:34 <NGC3982> It's working. 23:30:41 <NGC3982> For some damn reason. 23:31:03 <krinn> Zuu, no, i have made a generic handling that shoudl cover 99% case, even weird one, but there's still that 1% of totally weird crazy case like the one you speak of 23:31:14 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: I hate airports. 23:31:35 <Zuu> krinn: yeah, I don't expect an AI to fully support NUTS monorail. 23:32:26 <Zuu> Hopefully the AI earn enough money from elsewhere that a slightly worse monorail than intended will not cause too much trouble. 23:32:39 <krinn> Zuu run dictatorai with plenty newgrf for road, force AI to use industry as it's the best testcase : once AI build a depot for truck : pause, open the depot you'll see creation/deletion of vehicle while cEngine tests are made 23:33:29 <NGC3982> For some reason, i can now advertise and see the server, but i cannot join it. 23:33:44 <NGC3982> It's henjoh.se:10007 (NGC's Scania Buckaroo). 23:33:45 <Zuu> krinn: sounds clever and useful 23:33:51 <NGC3982> The dedicated server is telling me -nothing-. 23:33:52 <NGC3982> :( 23:34:36 <krinn> Zuu: it do the same with all my engine, that's why i create the class 23:35:23 <NGC3982> It's definately a router issue. 23:35:48 <NGC3982> And.. It was. 23:36:13 <krinn> Zuu: push the debug level to full and you will see it in the log 23:36:16 *** Ynsizi [~Ynsizi@93.115.84.195] has joined #openttd 23:38:07 *** Ynsizi [~Ynsizi@93.115.84.195] has quit [] 23:46:20 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-091-096-010-221.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 23:56:28 *** Zuu [~Zuu@h-114-141.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]