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00:25:38 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 00:30:26 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-170-143.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 00:46:56 *** wakou [~stephen@host86-182-193-134.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:54:54 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.58.119.65] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC is updating to v1.9.2 Beta Build (070813) 64 Bit] 00:55:31 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.58.119.65] has joined #openttd 01:05:22 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:15:15 *** amiller [~amiller@pool-96-255-47-217.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:15:15 *** NeuhNeuh [~quassel@37.175.215.149] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:18:55 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.215.149] has joined #openttd 01:26:09 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.130.59] has joined #openttd 01:32:16 *** amiller [~amiller@pool-96-255-47-217.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 01:55:36 *** fjb is now known as Guest2553 01:55:37 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:58:39 *** Guest2553 [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:03:43 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 02:06:34 *** montalvo [~montalvo@macbook60.icrar.org] has joined #openttd 02:15:21 *** Nat_aS [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:25:49 *** Nat_aS [~nat@00179a279bbd.click-network.com] has joined #openttd 02:27:17 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.126] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 02:34:04 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.215.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:46 <montalvo> does anyone have tips for going back to a really big built up city and somehow sneaking in more train stations around it? 03:10:08 <montalvo> i'm quite new to the game and didn't think ahead to put down loads of train stations around the main city i've focused on, and now i'm finding it hard to expand around it 03:40:45 *** roadt_ [~roadt@114.96.134.112] has joined #openttd 03:45:52 *** roadt [~roadt@114.96.130.59] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:09:56 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.58.119.65] has quit [Quit: I'm out for now, but you are invited to try AdiIRC: www.adiirc.com enjoy it!] 04:23:49 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5D5B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5B36.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:26:05 *** xT2 [~ST2@bl6-255-90.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 05:27:18 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.126] has joined #openttd 05:30:41 *** ST2 [~ST2@188.250.228.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:30:41 *** xT2 is now known as ST2 05:52:39 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 05:52:42 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 05:55:50 *** Pecio [~fgh@bnf212.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 05:58:24 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-111-15.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:25:21 *** Twofish [~Twofish@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:32:30 *** MatrixCL [~mielipuol@host-109-204-157-114.tp-fne.tampereenpuhelin.net] has joined #openttd 06:37:48 <dihedral> good morning gents 06:47:02 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:47:51 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 07:04:25 *** DDR [~chatzilla@154.20.132.104] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 07:07:13 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:07:16 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 07:07:47 <Alberth> o/ 07:19:17 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 07:27:46 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 07:32:58 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:48:10 *** heffer [felix@hyperion.fk.cx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:48:10 *** heffer [felix@hyperion.fk.cx] has joined #openttd 07:55:48 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.126] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 08:01:07 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@000128f9.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:01:23 *** DorpsGek [~dorpsgek@000128f9.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:01:26 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 08:11:05 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:11:28 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-182-193-134.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 08:16:59 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:23:09 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@212.36.5.170] has joined #openttd 08:24:16 *** Tvel [~Thunderbi@212.36.5.170] has quit [] 08:42:41 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:48:19 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 08:51:19 *** Pecio [~fgh@bnf212.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #openttd [] 08:56:23 *** Pecio [~fgh@bnf212.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 09:01:17 *** Ristovski [~rafael@ppp-seco11pa2-46-193-128.78.wb.wifirst.net] has joined #openttd 09:08:09 *** heffer [felix@hyperion.fk.cx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:09:44 *** insulfrog [~insulfrog@host-78-149-58-41.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 09:10:41 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:17:57 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:19:09 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 09:28:30 <insulfrog> hello :) 09:28:59 <scshunt> hello 09:34:56 <Alberth> hi 09:43:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i know The Ultimate Challenge for openttdcoop -> play future games without "firstred_twoway_eol" 09:45:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and i postulate that (almost) all the constructions are still possible, with some slight modifications 09:50:59 <montalvo> what does that do? 09:55:19 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-158-56-249.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:55:26 <LordAro> mornings 09:55:35 <Alberth> moin Lo 09:55:39 <Alberth> LordAro 09:55:42 <LordAro> :p 09:56:06 <Alberth> I have a different keyboard, still getting used to it 09:56:30 <LordAro> so you missed the tab key? 09:57:13 <Alberth> auto completion failed, as we also have lobsters here 09:57:49 <LordAro> when i type "lo" it autocompletes to lobsters at this end 09:58:00 <LordAro> i'd say that's your client, rather than your keyboard 09:58:13 <Alberth> fair enough :) 09:58:36 <LordAro> :p 10:00:32 <Eddi|zuHause> my client by default starts with the last nick that talked 10:01:32 <Alberth> that also fails sometimes, when you have several people discussing :) 10:03:14 <LordAro> ah, i can also go with 'last spoke' also 10:04:32 <LordAro> phew, that was scary - my fglrx module build failed when i updated the kernel, luckily triggering it manually seems to have done the trick 10:07:56 <V453000> what is the point that Eddi :) 10:08:07 <V453000> ofc most things are possible, just not as reliably 10:10:48 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:17:34 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: the point is to reforge the way you are thinking, when suddenly the rules change :p 10:28:48 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 10:29:01 <V453000> I dont see how counting penalty values reforges anything 10:31:50 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever... it's not like enlarging your horizon ever helped anybody... 10:32:22 <V453000> ? 10:32:44 <V453000> wtf do you mean by that 10:35:43 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.58.119.65] has joined #openttd 10:36:04 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 10:38:33 <V453000> that isnt much Eddi :) 10:40:24 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.58.119.65] has quit [] 10:41:01 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.58.119.65] has joined #openttd 10:42:58 *** montalvo [~montalvo@macbook60.icrar.org] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 10:52:29 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 10:55:34 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 11:00:50 *** insulfrog [~insulfrog@host-78-149-58-41.as13285.net] has left #openttd [] 11:08:21 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 11:10:56 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:15:10 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 11:16:25 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:17:39 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:19:16 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.215.149] has joined #openttd 11:43:58 <NGC3982> Morning. 11:44:57 <LordAro> moin 11:52:16 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.215.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:52:40 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 12:11:33 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:13:42 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 12:15:23 <roboboy> does anyone know if it's possible using php to include the servers directory listing into another page without using http? 12:17:47 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:18:39 <Alberth> you can just access the file system for a directory listing? 12:19:02 <roboboy> but then I have to format it :P 12:19:14 <roboboy> I would rather the server do it for me 12:20:34 <Alberth> and the formatter is only accessible through http? 12:20:40 <roboboy> and I have to get the timestamps and the type of directory entries 12:21:02 <roboboy> well I got told the page didn't exist as there is no index file 12:21:20 <roboboy> I presume it only works through http based on that 12:22:05 <Alberth> so you want to access a routine not through http, which can only be accessed through http? 12:22:58 <roboboy> It looks like that is the case :( 12:23:44 <Alberth> the only other option is to duplicate/copy the formatter routine into your own code 12:23:51 <Alberth> (I think) 12:25:20 <roboboy> it sounds like that is the case 12:26:18 <Alberth> hmm, or embed the server directory listing as a sub-page in your own page? :p 12:26:27 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 12:26:43 <Alberth> (no idea if that's possible, I don't know enough of html) 12:29:22 *** roadt_ [~roadt@114.96.134.112] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:47 <roboboy> I think I'll replicate the servers functionality 12:35:13 *** tst [~id@46.16.33.158] has joined #openttd 12:37:08 *** krinn [~krinn@53.54.71.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #openttd 12:37:25 <krinn> hi guys 12:37:42 *** SamanthaD [~SamanthaD@c-98-248-25-134.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 12:37:46 <SamanthaD> \o 12:37:51 <Alberth> hi hi 12:38:11 <krinn> hi SamanthaD 12:38:15 <SamanthaD> hey Alberth and krinn! 12:39:38 <SamanthaD> Does anyone know what's up with the Finnish Trainset? 12:39:55 <krinn> it's not finish ? (ok not my best one) 12:40:02 <SamanthaD> it's like... the steam engines cost ~20k but you get to the diesels and the electrics and they're running ~500k 12:40:07 <SamanthaD> LOL 12:45:20 *** tst [~id@46.16.33.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:47:42 <Alberth> maybe coal is very cheap in Finland? 12:48:41 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Quit: reboot] 12:50:00 <SamanthaD> hmm... maybe! 12:50:27 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 12:51:55 *** tst [~id@46.16.33.158] has joined #openttd 12:53:20 <SamanthaD> why the heck doesn't `git clone http://git.openttd.org` work? 12:53:34 <SamanthaD> it's complaining that git.openttd.org/info/refs not found 12:53:53 <SamanthaD> ah... I see 12:54:29 <SamanthaD> I need to clone http://git.openttd.org/openttd/trunk.git 12:55:38 * SamanthaD has decided to use git instead of svn for tracking OpenTTD 12:56:43 <Xaroth|Work> or 12:56:49 <Xaroth|Work> you can use the github repo 12:56:56 <Xaroth|Work> and the github client 12:57:23 <SamanthaD> I'd rather use the client I've got on my computer 12:57:28 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 12:57:30 <SamanthaD> why, is the github repo better for some reason? 12:57:37 <Xaroth|Work> no, but the github client is 12:58:28 <Alberth> then someone needs to spend more time on the local applications, imho 12:59:32 <SamanthaD> yeah... 12:59:44 <SamanthaD> lots of people complain about git being confusing in its interface 12:59:47 <SamanthaD> and honestly, it kinda is 13:00:27 *** tst [~id@46.16.33.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:00:40 *** tst [~id@37.140.99.39] has joined #openttd 13:00:48 <SamanthaD> I'm only using git because I want to maintain my own branch locally 13:00:49 <Alberth> it's the main reason I use hg instead 13:01:05 <krinn> hg is easy 13:01:26 <SamanthaD> to the mercurial! 13:01:26 <Alberth> hg and git can basically do the same things, but hg has a much easier ui 13:01:56 <SamanthaD> I don't have any experience with Hg but if you folks say it's worth using instead of Git... I suppose I'll give it a shot 13:02:03 <krinn> must be why i find it easy, i have no ui :) 13:02:41 <Alberth> hg is more svn-like, with commands to select what you want. git has less commands, and puts a lot of things in options to the commands 13:03:28 <SamanthaD> and I can easily create a local branch with Hg, right? 13:03:33 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 13:03:35 <Xaroth|Work> the amount of commands hg has is confusing as hell 13:03:59 <Xaroth|Work> git, especially with the github client means I don't have to think too much 13:04:11 <Xaroth|Work> plus, it has a sane 'undo' button 13:04:19 <Xaroth|Work> i -really- like the undo button 13:04:23 <Xaroth|Work> as i derp around a lot 13:04:37 <SamanthaD> don't we all ;) 13:04:41 <Alberth> Xaroth|Work: don't compare one VCS with a gui with another one without gui 13:05:00 <Xaroth|Work> Alberth: I compare my experience with said VCS 13:05:07 <Xaroth|Work> if HG doesn't have a sane gui, that's their fault 13:05:11 <Xaroth|Work> git does, so I use it 13:05:20 <Alberth> git doesn't 13:05:26 <LordAro> i'm told good things about tortoise[svn|hg|git] 13:05:26 <Alberth> at least plain git 13:05:46 <Xaroth|Work> plain git, like hg, and svn, are command line client 13:05:51 <Xaroth|Work> s/client/clients/ 13:05:54 <Alberth> SamanthaD: I have a clone to track upstream, and make local clones for experiments/patches 13:05:55 <LordAro> well noticed :P 13:06:13 <SamanthaD> Alberth: instead of branches? 13:06:28 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 13:07:03 <Alberth> you can have branches, but if you do that in the same repo, you cannot easily compare one branch with another one, at the file system 13:07:18 <Xaroth|Work> the gui clients are just to make things easier (if possible), and visualise things easier 13:07:20 <SamanthaD> also, I don't like GUIs with my development tools. I had a bad experience with them in middle school where I got overdependent on my IDE 13:07:37 <Alberth> I found just making more clones easier, you can quickly make new copies and discard repos you messed up 13:08:04 <Alberth> SamanthaD: I hate guis for not being scriptable :) 13:08:28 <SamanthaD> Alberth: Mouse pointer scripting?! ;) 13:08:29 <Alberth> note that clones at the same file system share the history 13:08:51 <Xaroth|Work> SamanthaD: using them and being dependant on them are very far apart 13:09:00 <Alberth> SamanthaD: concurrently over 5 desktops ;) 13:09:50 <SamanthaD> Alberth: That's okay! X11's network interface has you covered! 13:10:00 <Alberth> :D 13:10:33 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-001-087.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 13:10:41 <Alberth> for some reason, command-line tools seem a lot easier :) 13:11:05 <krinn> Alberth, yeah just put the one need in a bash script, and voila, no need to remember or learn hg 13:11:10 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:12:16 <Alberth> :) 13:12:26 <SamanthaD> I dunno... I suppose as long as you know how to use the CLI you can use the GUI too 13:12:31 <Xaroth|Work> my deploy scripts all use the CLI; but I really can't be arsed having to type (or run the right script) stuff while developing on my desktop, when there's a perfectly useful GUI for that. 13:12:43 <SamanthaD> it's just that when I was little I'd learn to use the GUI and then when the GUI didn't do what I needed to I'd be flat on my butt and helpless 13:13:04 <Xaroth|Work> SamanthaD: there's google for those situations :P 13:13:15 <Alberth> SamanthaD: thg (tortoisehg) is very nice gui tool for examining a hg repo 13:13:17 <SamanthaD> :p 13:13:35 <Xaroth|Work> tortoise* by default offers nice interfaces 13:13:56 <SamanthaD> and it's part of Debian! 13:14:09 <SamanthaD> praise the great sky compiler! 13:14:10 <Alberth> what more can you desire! :) 13:14:21 <blathijs> amiller: Using TortoiseSVN can be a challenge, even (especiallly?) if you know commandline svn... 13:14:27 <SamanthaD> Alberth: A Debian backport in a year? ;) 13:14:43 <blathijs> s/amiller/SamanthaD/ 13:14:59 <Xaroth|Work> tsvn isn't that bad 13:15:10 <Xaroth|Work> but the cli offers some stuff that's hard to find in tsvn 13:15:12 <Alberth> SamanthaD: switch to fedora :) 13:15:21 *** oskari892 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:15:37 <SamanthaD> Alberth: I tried that a few months ago. It crashed a lot. 13:15:40 <blathijs> Xaroth|Work: I wasn't saying it's bad, but sometimes they changed terminology in subtle ways, so you have to change the way of thinking at some points :-) 13:15:51 <Xaroth|Work> aye 13:15:53 <Xaroth|Work> hard to find sometimes 13:16:21 <Xaroth|Work> thg and tgit have the same issue 13:16:25 <Alberth> SamanthaD: yeah, I agree it has some unstable edges every now and then 13:16:25 <SamanthaD> I'll just stick to the CLI and maybe a program to graphically display commits 13:16:53 <Xaroth|Work> SamanthaD: you're edging close to http://xkcd.com/927/ :P 13:17:12 <SamanthaD> >.< 13:17:24 <Alberth> searching through the commit history (hg annotate) 13:17:31 <SamanthaD> They have a QT applet that apparently does just that already though 13:18:08 <SamanthaD> hgview, according to apt-cache 13:18:21 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 13:19:25 <Alberth> that's the package name? 13:19:43 <Alberth> yum doesn't know it 13:20:10 <SamanthaD> that is the package name 13:20:34 <SamanthaD> apt has hgview, hgview-common hgview-curses 13:20:51 <SamanthaD> according to apt-cache, hgview is the qt4 interface so... maybe hgview-qt4? 13:22:25 <SamanthaD> you folks are right... the mercurial CLI *is* a lot simpler than git! 13:23:38 <LordAro> :D 13:24:53 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has joined #openttd 13:25:52 <SamanthaD> yay! I know enough to use mercurial as an exceedingly complex wget! 13:25:55 <SamanthaD> I feel hackerish now :3 13:26:11 <LordAro> "mercurial as an exceedingly complex wget!" lol :D 13:27:00 <SamanthaD> exceedingly complicated, bandwidth inefficient wget! 13:28:30 <Aristide> Hi SamanthaD ! 13:28:32 <Alberth> it pulls the entire project history, instead of just the current version 13:28:33 <Aristide> Hi LordAro ! :) 13:28:40 <Aristide> Hi NGC3982 :) 13:28:46 <LordAro> hi Aristide ! 13:28:50 <SamanthaD> Alberth: That's why it's inefficient ;) 13:28:50 *** Aristide is now known as Citelis18 13:28:55 <SamanthaD> hey Aristide! 13:28:56 <Citelis18> LordAro: :) 13:28:58 <Citelis18> SamanthaD: o/ 13:29:05 <SamanthaD> hey Citelist18! 13:29:10 <Citelis18> ^^ 13:29:13 <SamanthaD> oh, right 13:29:17 <Xaroth|Work> SamanthaD: https://github.com/sympy/sympy/wiki/Git-hg-rosetta-stone ; the differences between git commands and hg commands 13:29:17 <krinn> hey SamanthaD ! 13:29:21 <Xaroth|Work> I survive by that list :P 13:29:23 <krinn> hi Citelis18 13:29:40 <Alberth> lol, hgview is still being added https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=736861 only since 2011 :p 13:29:45 <Citelis18> Hi krinn :) 13:30:23 <SamanthaD> I'm bookmarking that for sure! 13:30:46 <krinn> Alberth, Latest version available: 1.7.1-r1 (love gentoo) 13:30:53 <Citelis18> Service Temporarily Unavailable 13:30:53 <Citelis18> The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. 13:30:54 <Citelis18> :D 13:31:11 <LordAro> Citelis18: github? worked for me, try again :) 13:31:24 <Citelis18> LordAro: This website : https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=736861 13:31:26 <SamanthaD> AHAHAHA! 13:31:34 <SamanthaD> the redhat bugtracker is bugged! 13:31:44 <Citelis18> Proxy Error 13:31:44 <Citelis18> The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server. |Â The proxy server could not handle the request GET /show_bug.cgi. |Â Reason: Error reading from remote server 13:31:45 <Citelis18> xD 13:31:46 <LordAro> i get a "proxy error" 13:31:49 <LordAro> yh 13:31:56 <Alberth> :) 13:32:07 <LordAro> fix your distro, Alberth :p 13:32:25 <Citelis18> KDE > All 13:32:33 <SamanthaD> XFCE > KDE 13:32:43 <SamanthaD> *flames* 13:32:43 <krinn> KDE > fat bottom gorilla 13:32:59 <LordAro> Cinnamon > ... actually i'm not sure whether i like it yet 13:33:13 <SamanthaD> fat bottom gorilla > Gnome3 13:33:17 <LordAro> ^ 13:33:25 * krinn don't cares it still use gnome2 13:33:29 <Citelis18> ALL > Gnome Shell 13:33:54 <Xaroth|Work> SamanthaD: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1450348/git-equivalents-of-most-common-mercurial-commands also explains some nice tricks (iirc it also links to that rosetta stone) you can pull off with git 13:34:11 <SamanthaD> thanks Xaroth 13:34:19 <SamanthaD> krinn: MATE? 13:34:25 <Citelis18> Xaroth|Work: Fake (work) 13:34:52 <krinn> didn't test it yet SamanthaD i don't like swap GUI/distro... and my latest try (gnome3) has calm me down for a year 13:35:04 <Xaroth|Work> Citelis18: original. 13:35:04 <Citelis18> My KDE desktop is GOOD ! 13:35:13 <Citelis18> Xaroth|Work: What is original ? 13:35:21 <Xaroth|Work> your poor attempt at a joke 13:35:25 <Xaroth|Work> it sais |Work, not |Working 13:35:32 <Citelis18> :') 13:36:19 <SamanthaD> krinn: Ah! Maybe give it a try in a year or so. It's basically just a Gnome2 fork but somehow they managed to break stuff along the way. I haven't used it in a year or so though and never seriously. 13:37:40 <krinn> SamanthaD, i'm not really into getting new things, that gnome2 is rock stable, it's enough for me, if i need a tools, i won't use the crappy version provide by the manager anyway 13:39:07 <SamanthaD> well, carry on then :3 13:39:39 <krinn> well, as long as i can maintain it without pain i will stick with it 13:39:55 <SamanthaD> I haven't strayed from XFCE for the better part of a decade other than a few forays to try out the "new shiny thing(tm)" 13:40:27 <SamanthaD> they haven't changed their UI significantly since then 13:40:35 <SamanthaD> just been progressively more polished 13:40:46 <krinn> and that's good no? if they change the UI it's not XFCE anymore 13:40:53 <SamanthaD> exactly 13:41:02 <krinn> and you are using XFCE because you love the UI 13:41:29 <krinn> that's the gnome3 stupid concept : change gnome to not be gnome. 13:41:35 <SamanthaD> Yup! It's kinda like a cross between Gnome2 and KDE3 13:42:23 <krinn> worst of the both world ? (kidding) 13:42:26 <SamanthaD> heh 13:42:28 <SamanthaD> no, best 13:45:11 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 13:48:14 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 13:54:33 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has joined #openttd 13:56:04 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:17 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has joined #openttd 13:58:40 *** Citelis18 [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:05:57 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 14:08:19 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:18:38 *** Twofish [~Twofish@0001308f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:54:48 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:55:00 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has joined #openttd 14:56:36 *** amiller [~amiller@pool-96-255-47-217.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:05:40 *** amiller [~amiller@pool-96-255-47-217.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 15:07:11 *** Pecio [~fgh@bnf212.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #openttd [] 15:19:39 *** amiller [~amiller@pool-96-255-47-217.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:49:48 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 15:56:26 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:56:52 *** amiller [~amiller@129-2-129-154.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #openttd 15:59:13 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:04:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A079.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:06:46 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0089a9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:16:50 *** tst [~id@37.140.99.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:25:25 *** DDR [~chatzilla@154.20.132.104] has joined #openttd 16:36:24 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 16:46:15 *** sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 16:48:34 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:48:53 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.58.119.65] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC - the horny client (www.adiirc.com)] 16:54:25 <SamanthaD> Is there a convenient way for me to make mercurial update to a given SVN revision number? 16:56:02 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1857F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:57:20 *** Sacro [~ben@000127ee.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:58:35 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 16:58:37 <NGC3982> I guess having the feeling of living in the Groundhog Day makes for a bad day. 16:59:21 <frosch123> SamanthaD: hg log -k r12345 --template '{rev}' | xargs hg up -r 16:59:31 <frosch123> convenient enough? :p 16:59:36 <SamanthaD> frosch123: Very! Thank you! 17:00:20 <frosch123> actually the keyword might not be specific enough 17:00:35 <frosch123> maybe you need '(svn r12345)' or so 17:00:53 <frosch123> else it might hit on stuff like -Fix (r12345) 17:02:42 * SamanthaD took a moment to work out what the command did 17:02:44 <SamanthaD> that's clever! 17:03:05 <frosch123> yeah, i learned it from alberth :) 17:03:08 *** MadaraUchiha [~oftc-webi@95.35.57.190] has joined #openttd 17:03:10 <MadaraUchiha> Evening 17:03:13 <MadaraUchiha> Quick question 17:03:15 <SamanthaD> evening! 17:03:29 <SamanthaD> frosch123: he seems like a clever guy! 17:03:32 *** sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 17:03:37 <MadaraUchiha> I've read that the Difficulty Settings menu was removed from its place in the latest version. 17:03:53 <MadaraUchiha> How can I access it (or the options it used to have, if it doesn't exist anymore?) 17:04:12 <frosch123> difficulty and news settings were moved to advanced settings 17:04:24 <frosch123> also mind the filter options at the top of the advanced settings 17:04:44 <MadaraUchiha> Aha, thanks 17:04:44 <SamanthaD> I don't think anyone ever played unmodified difficulties anyway... 17:04:50 <frosch123> they defautl to "basic" settings", which hide a lot of the rarely needed options 17:05:34 <SamanthaD> MardaraUchiha: But do note the filter! There's lots of difficulty-changing options that "basic" likes to hide! 17:05:54 <MadaraUchiha> Mardara :D 17:06:04 <MadaraUchiha> http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Madara_Uchiha 17:07:28 <SamanthaD> ah, sorry! 17:08:56 <Alberth> what did I do? 17:09:32 <Alberth> I really explained --template '{rev}' ? :o 17:09:48 <SamanthaD> apparently! 17:10:24 <Alberth> well, ok, it seems to cover your needs :) 17:10:46 <SamanthaD> yup! 17:13:51 <frosch123> Alberth: no, "-k" 17:14:14 <Alberth> ah, right, that seems more likely :) 17:16:09 <NGC3982> Naruto.. 17:16:25 <frosch123> NGC3982: it's not only a sc2 player 17:16:25 <NGC3982> The anime that should have ended with Zabuza. 17:18:43 <NGC3982> Wait what. I'm wait out of context. 17:18:49 <NGC3982> Way* 17:21:29 <MadaraUchiha> @NGC3982 How uptodate are you? 17:22:30 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:44 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has joined #openttd 17:25:26 <NGC3982> About what, the anime or the games? 17:25:36 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 17:26:23 <NGC3982> I think i ended Naruto around the Konoha attack thingy. I remember watching it as it was broadcasted, so i guesd it was a long time ago. 17:26:37 <NGC3982> Guess* 17:32:05 *** megakacktus [~debussy@174-30-204-96.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #openttd 17:32:43 <SamanthaD> okay, one more stupid question: I need to find the last revision with a certian file in it (in mercurial) 17:33:11 <SamanthaD> specifically, I need to figure out what's going on with src/table/settings.h 17:33:42 <Alberth> it got moved to src/table/*.ini 17:34:02 <Alberth> hmm, not sure what's in settings.h 17:34:05 <SamanthaD> Alberth: Just a flat out move? 17:34:16 <Alberth> nah, that would be too easy :p 17:34:28 <SamanthaD> LOL 17:34:32 <Alberth> where is that settings.h file? 17:34:37 <Alberth> or perhaps when? 17:34:56 <SamanthaD> anyway... my up-to-date version shows that there are two files. src/table/settings.h.postamble and a *.preamble 17:35:58 <frosch123> well, i guess you can say that settings.h was moved into objs/settings/table/ :p 17:36:05 <frosch123> it's now a generated file 17:36:35 <SamanthaD> I see... 17:36:40 <Alberth> right, I was looking for that :) 17:36:41 <SamanthaD> *headache* 17:37:13 <Alberth> what entry do you need? 17:37:21 <SamanthaD> not sure yet 17:37:43 <SamanthaD> I just have a patch that modified it and I was trying to find the revision that moved it so I could update to the one right before that, merge, then go forward 17:37:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25699 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2013-08-07 17:37:41 UTC) 17:37:47 <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish: Hopefully make the settings type filter dropdown less confusing. 17:38:53 <Alberth> ah, ok 17:39:24 <SamanthaD> ah... it adds a bunch of settings 17:40:15 <Alberth> perhaps the first revision of a .ini file (which is svn r22172) 17:40:24 <SamanthaD> thank you! 17:43:20 <SamanthaD> why the heck is settings.h.postamble just an empty file?! O.o 17:45:18 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25700 trunk/src/lang/slovenian.txt (2013-08-07 17:45:14 UTC) 17:45:19 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:20 <DorpsGek> slovenian - 21 changes by matej1245 17:46:10 <NGC3982> You know you have a pirated version of Android when you get the error message: "You are low on battery. Please insert SIM card". 17:46:14 <Alberth> consistency with the other .postamble files 17:46:27 <SamanthaD> Alberth: Thanks! 17:46:34 <NGC3982> There isn't even hardware for a SIM card in the device. 17:46:38 <NGC3982> <3 17:46:38 <SamanthaD> NGC3982: I dunno... I wouldn't count on it ;) 17:46:39 <Alberth> I cannot really find where the file disappeared 17:47:03 <SamanthaD> Alberth: Lemmie dig around in this a bit, I might be able to figure it out 17:47:13 <megakacktus> How exactly is the file list generated / stored? I'm having trouble setting up a filterable GUIlist :-/ 17:49:49 <Alberth> SamanthaD: r22174 adds the new system, but without using it in the build process, so after that the switch was made 17:50:04 <Alberth> megakacktus: doesn't the code build a list? 17:50:11 <frosch123> megakacktus: maybe keep the filelist generation as it is, but transfer it into a GuiList 17:50:24 <SamanthaD> Alberth: Thank you, I'll keep that in mind. 17:50:25 <frosch123> filelist generation is also used for console interface etc 17:51:02 <frosch123> most lists use a Guilist<> to store/sort/filter the stuff 17:57:04 <Alberth> SamanthaD: ah, r22188 removes the file 17:58:37 <SamanthaD> MSVC... 18:02:35 * SamanthaD is glad she's doing this doing this by hand 18:02:39 <Alberth> Luckily I have never had to deal with that so far :p 18:03:13 <SamanthaD> there's a post 22174 update to the patch made by a third party on the forums but it diffs settings.ini 18:03:21 <SamanthaD> and... since that's apparently a temp file now... 18:04:08 <Alberth> you'd need to find where the real switch is made 18:04:39 <SamanthaD> yup... 18:04:50 <SamanthaD> I used her patch before 18:04:55 <SamanthaD> I found it unreliable 18:05:00 <SamanthaD> now maybe I know why >.< 18:05:06 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1857F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:24 <Alberth> oh, it's also in r22188 18:09:38 <megakacktus> frosch123: How would I transfer it into a GuiList? with a typedef? 18:10:15 <frosch123> the guilist would be a member of your window 18:10:24 <frosch123> then you have some BuildFileList ufnction tor so 18:10:39 <frosch123> which queries the filelist using the existing functions, and adds all items to the guilist member 18:10:45 <frosch123> then that thing is filtered and sorted 18:11:08 <Alberth> and displayed :p 18:16:16 <frosch123> megakacktus: maybe take a look at the NetworkGameWindow 18:16:23 <frosch123> i think it's kind of the easiest list with a filter 18:16:44 <frosch123> the other lists with filters have some special stuff 18:19:37 <megakacktus> ok... I'll see what I can do :) 18:19:42 <frosch123> V453000: watching again? 18:19:52 <V453000> ye 18:20:16 <V453000> wanted stephano to wreak all ass though :( 18:20:59 <frosch123> yeah, it's unusual that protoss is winning :p 18:21:23 <frosch123> but i think naniwas reaction to immediately place a second pylon for powering the gate was awesome 18:21:34 <V453000> ye 18:22:34 <frosch123> anyway, all ro8 from last season are eliminated :p 18:22:48 <frosch123> it's a game of pure luck :p 18:23:34 <frosch123> (ok, prejuding happy here) 18:25:18 <frosch123> lol 18:26:29 <V453000> mhm :) 18:30:19 <megakacktus> dumb question: what is CDECL? 18:30:58 <frosch123> one of about infinitely many 32bit calling conventions 18:31:41 <megakacktus> what does it stand for? 18:32:02 <frosch123> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_calling_conventions#cdecl 18:32:29 <frosch123> megakacktus: enjoy 64bit, and ignore that stuff 18:32:39 <frosch123> it's just needed to make it compile on 32bit 18:32:49 <megakacktus> oh ok 18:34:30 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host241-234-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:34:33 <SamanthaD> quick question if anyone knows off the top of their head... in the translation files under the STR_CONFIG_SETTING there's a bunch of new entries that end in _HELPTEXT 18:34:41 <Wolf01> hi o/ 18:34:46 <Alberth> hi Wolf01 18:34:50 <SamanthaD> anyway... the patch I'm applying is older than those 18:34:58 <frosch123> SamanthaD: opent the advanced settings gui, and watch the bottom part closely :) 18:35:22 <SamanthaD> right... my question is do I need to do anything special or should I just add a new entry in the translation file? 18:35:36 <frosch123> you need to reference it from the .ini file 18:35:46 <SamanthaD> which is autogenerated 18:36:01 <frosch123> the .ini is not generated 18:36:01 <Alberth> no, the .ini is not 18:36:12 <frosch123> .ini and .txt are source 18:37:16 <SamanthaD> I thought we just established that esrc/table/settings.ini is autogenerated from settings.h.preamble... 18:37:38 <SamanthaD> ah, screw it 18:37:40 <frosch123> objs/.../settings.h is generated 18:37:43 <SamanthaD> worst that can happen is I don't get a helptext 18:37:52 <SamanthaD> oh! I see! 18:37:59 <frosch123> "objs" is generated, "src" is source 18:38:01 <SamanthaD> so, which .ini should I be editing? 18:38:49 <frosch123> most liekly settings.ini 18:39:18 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 18:39:19 <SamanthaD> *headdesk* 18:39:26 <SamanthaD> I can't believe I didn't see that staring me in the face >.< 18:39:38 <SamanthaD> thanks, guys 18:39:46 <SamanthaD> I'm going to go take a five minute break 18:39:50 <SamanthaD> I'm obviously going crosseyed 18:41:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 18:42:17 <andythenorth> o/ 18:42:49 <Alberth> o/ 18:43:39 <SamanthaD> \o 18:44:41 <andythenorth> what's happened? 18:44:57 <Rubidium> andythenorth: you left, and then you joined again 18:45:01 <andythenorth> ok 18:45:05 <andythenorth> sounds exciting 18:45:10 <Rubidium> andythenorth: nothing in between as the world revolves around you ;) 18:45:12 <andythenorth> frick, that reminds me 18:45:18 <andythenorth> I have to submit that bug report :( 18:45:40 <andythenorth> have to make a savegame and everything 18:45:48 <andythenorth> so much work :P 18:46:53 <frosch123> and all of that only to cause work for others :p 18:47:15 <andythenorth> the world is a sad place 18:47:19 <andythenorth> but...firstworldproblem 18:47:37 <frosch123> can we somehow buy some island in the southern hemisphere together? 18:47:37 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:47:40 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:48:15 <andythenorth> what would we do there? 18:48:37 <frosch123> not work 18:48:53 <andythenorth> :( 18:48:55 * andythenorth likes work 18:49:06 <frosch123> isn't that the common dream to not do anything, and just vegatate staring straight into the sun? 18:49:11 <andythenorth> ugh 18:49:15 <andythenorth> vegetables can do that 18:51:39 *** MadaraUchiha [~oftc-webi@95.35.57.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:23 <andythenorth> would we write code? 18:54:36 *** NeuhNeuh [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has joined #openttd 18:57:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1857F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:58:50 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:07:00 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 19:08:44 <megakacktus> so this is turning out to be much more complex than I original expected :( 19:12:16 <frosch123> ottd is big and complex :p 19:12:42 <frosch123> all custom code, few libraries 19:13:32 <glx> but at least a very big library ;) 19:18:31 <andythenorth> so I had an idea about FIRS providing info to GS 19:18:40 <andythenorth> dunno if it's useful or stupid 19:19:25 <andythenorth> no idea how Squirrel consumes data 19:21:49 <Xaroth|Work> it eats nuts 19:23:10 <frosch123> andythenorth: static info or dynamic info? 19:23:27 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has joined #openttd 19:24:42 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #openttd 19:25:17 <frosch123> or actually: 1) constants specific per industrytype, 2) specific per industrytype but depending on grf parameters, 3) dynamically depending on industry instance and changing over time 19:25:53 <megakacktus> I'm trying to loop through _fios_items, which is declared from a SmallVector<T,S> template... 19:26:06 <megakacktus> what should the type be that I'm pointing to? 19:26:40 <frosch123> use it like a std::vector, just capitalise the member functions, and use S* as iterator 19:26:49 <frosch123> err, T* 19:27:30 <frosch123> nevermind, member functions are actualy vastly different 19:27:36 *** NeuhNeuh [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:30:29 <frosch123> andythenorth: anyway, squirrel prefers to consume generic data as json 19:30:54 <andythenorth> frosch123: constants 19:31:00 <andythenorth> this would be outside of openttd 19:31:14 <andythenorth> it would be compile time stuff, inserted via good old copy+paste 19:31:29 <frosch123> inserted into what? 19:31:32 <andythenorth> scripts 19:31:35 <andythenorth> GS 19:31:46 <andythenorth> hang on 19:32:00 <frosch123> wouldn't you rather add something to firs? 19:32:04 <andythenorth> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1090717#p1090717 19:32:09 <frosch123> so it is bundled with the grf, and fits to it? 19:32:19 <andythenorth> hmm 19:32:29 <andythenorth> 'would rather' yes probably 19:32:33 <andythenorth> 'can'? dunno 19:32:55 <frosch123> well, hardcoding industry ids into a script library would be a stupid solution 19:33:00 <frosch123> that most likely just breaks 19:33:10 <andythenorth> this was a hack idea to reduce work for GS authors having to personally maintain their script against FIRS 19:33:14 <andythenorth> it's not optimal :) 19:33:21 <frosch123> detecting industries on input/output cargo combinations might not be unique enough 19:33:27 <andythenorth> it's not 19:33:40 <andythenorth> we've had a groundhog day conversation about that kind of thing too many times :) 19:33:55 <andythenorth> I want to add some kind of metadata to cargos 19:34:01 <andythenorth> and maybe industries 19:34:12 <andythenorth> maybe we should just extend newgrf spec :P 19:34:26 <frosch123> (1) would be easy, it would just be adding a json string via a14, which scripts can read 19:34:46 <frosch123> (2) and (3) are way more tricky, since you somehow need to isnert parameters into the json 19:34:57 <andythenorth> this was actually wrt cargos, which is probably simpler 19:35:02 <andythenorth> but the industry case is valid too 19:35:13 <frosch123> what's the problem with cargos? 19:35:25 <frosch123> scripts can identify them via cargo labels, what else do they need? 19:35:49 <frosch123> or do their meaning change with firs parameters? 19:35:58 <andythenorth> far as I can tell from the forum thread (waiting for a reply), a bit more info about 'intention' might be useful 19:36:01 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:36:07 <andythenorth> like, is this a good cargo for town growth? 19:36:08 <andythenorth> etc 19:36:22 <andythenorth> this is all guesswork, no real use case yet 19:36:30 <andythenorth> but guessing is fun 19:36:41 <andythenorth> use cases are for paid work :P 19:37:12 <frosch123> i rather thought about allowing newgrfs to tell scripts how the production mechanics of industries work 19:37:27 <andythenorth> that is interesting 19:37:30 <andythenorth> and complicated :) 19:37:30 <frosch123> i have no idea what would be interesting about cargos 19:38:04 <andythenorth> me neither yet 19:38:15 <andythenorth> I want to play that GS though 19:39:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: well, simplified like: cargo affects output few/lot, on its own/only with other cargos, unlimited/limited to 100 per month 19:39:39 <andythenorth> yeah something like that 19:40:01 <andythenorth> I think there is a need for something between 'totally generic' and 'GS author has to know all details of newgrf' 19:40:23 <andythenorth> cargo labels and railtype labels have worked well imho 19:40:33 <andythenorth> despite some arguments 19:40:38 <frosch123> well "know all details of newgrf" will fail, considering how quickly firs economies change :p 19:40:45 <andythenorth> point well made 19:40:54 <andythenorth> and that's now by design, not by mistake :) 19:42:59 <andythenorth> 'cargo can make electricity' :P 19:43:30 <frosch123> that either depends on the industry accepting it, or the script can decide from the cargolabel itself 19:43:48 *** heffer [felix@2a01:4f8:160:9ffe:d::94be] has joined #openttd 19:43:50 *** heffer [felix@2a01:4f8:160:9ffe:d::94be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:51 <frosch123> there are not so many cargos overall 19:44:08 <frosch123> scripts can easily detect the 5 they are interested in 19:44:52 *** heffer [felix@2a01:4f8:160:9ffe:d::94be] has joined #openttd 19:48:45 <andythenorth> ok so maybe industries are the significant aspect 19:49:33 <frosch123> yeah, but they depend on grf parameters, and maybe even more 19:49:35 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49:50 <frosch123> so, we need some way to insert dynamic stuff into json strings with grfs :p 19:51:10 <andythenorth> fun project? 19:51:38 <frosch123> maybe :p 19:52:07 <frosch123> should we create some examples how the result information could look like? 19:52:12 <andythenorth> yes 19:52:18 <frosch123> to get an idea about what dynamic parts would be there 19:52:25 <andythenorth> I am only +0.5 on the usefulness so far 19:52:31 <andythenorth> but usefulness is over-rated :) 19:52:41 <andythenorth> is it a neat thing to do? o_O 19:53:14 <andythenorth> frosch123: you wrote a GS, what did you want to know about the industries? 19:53:21 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has joined #openttd 19:53:21 <frosch123> well, if we have some examples we can give them to krinn and other gs authors, and make them flame us how useless the stuff is :p 19:53:49 <andythenorth> static: 'this industry builds in towns' 19:53:51 <frosch123> andythenorth: i made a automatic classification of cargos and industries into secondary and primary 19:54:10 <andythenorth> using what criteria? 19:54:19 <frosch123> but it cannot distinguish secondary from tertairy, nor rare from often 19:54:26 <frosch123> so the goals turn out very different 19:54:33 <frosch123> you can see the same with nocargoal 19:54:39 <andythenorth> yup 19:54:45 <frosch123> goals are very different to achieve 19:54:58 <frosch123> i even have a bug report for sv, that it is unbalanced in multiplayer :) 19:55:15 <andythenorth> :) 19:55:20 <frosch123> anyway, industries have a raw/processing flag 19:55:26 <frosch123> which constrols funding/prospecting 19:55:40 <frosch123> that allows to classify industries into raw and processing industries 19:55:43 <andythenorth> limited information content though 19:55:46 <frosch123> and then i can look which industries produce what cargo 19:55:53 <andythenorth> some info there, but not enough 19:56:03 <frosch123> i.e. if cargo is only produced by raw, or only by processing cargos 19:56:11 <frosch123> cargos produced by both, are dropped 19:56:28 <frosch123> if you take a look at the debug output of sv, it prints the cargo classification at startup 19:56:35 <andythenorth> but you had to figure all that out for yourself? 19:56:41 <andythenorth> you can't just query the industry 19:57:12 <frosch123> i can query the input/output cargos of the industrytypes, like the chain graph does 19:57:19 <frosch123> and i can query funding/prospecting 19:57:25 <andythenorth> so either that should be a GS library for reuse, or every author has to figure it out? 19:57:33 <frosch123> maybe :p 19:57:36 <andythenorth> we have not many GS yet, and the barrier to starting seems high 19:57:46 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:15 <frosch123> we can try to advertise it to zuu or krinn, so they include it into some superlib for gs :p 19:58:20 <andythenorth> so industry is primary / secondary / tertiary seems valid 19:58:24 <frosch123> but i don't feel like maintaining a gs library myself 19:58:32 <andythenorth> me neither :P 19:58:46 <andythenorth> maintaing API info in FIRS I would be happy to do 19:58:59 <andythenorth> hmm 19:59:01 <andythenorth> AIs? 19:59:07 <andythenorth> would also benefit from this info? 19:59:27 <frosch123> i guess the info would be the same 19:59:38 <frosch123> unless newgrf want to hide info from ais, and give gs extra tipps :p 19:59:46 <andythenorth> :D 20:00:04 <andythenorth> so more detailed industry type info seems valid 20:00:08 <frosch123> but i would rather prefer if newgrf/gs/ai team up against humans :p 20:00:11 <andythenorth> industry can have production boosted? 20:00:34 <andythenorth> supplying this industry should boost town growth? 20:00:47 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:01:38 <frosch123> andythenorth: "input cargo 2 affects output cargo a lot, but only together with other cargos, and only up to a soft maximum of 100 units per month" ? 20:01:51 <andythenorth> how to express that in json? 20:02:10 <andythenorth> FIRS uses production ratios 20:02:14 <andythenorth> they might be valid 20:02:21 <frosch123> i guess a map from keywords to integers 20:02:42 <andythenorth> I am not bothered about making this totally generic; there are not many industry sets, and there are definitely _some_ similarities between ECS and FIRS 20:03:26 <frosch123> i don't think it should contain more than 4 things per cargo 20:03:32 <andythenorth> cargo 2: affects output cargos [1 | 2]; amount [high]; limit [100] 20:03:33 <frosch123> else it is way too complicated for scripts 20:04:14 <andythenorth> or express it in terms of what is needed to produce output cargos 20:05:20 <andythenorth> dunno how 20:08:09 <frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/2481/ <- some paper mill with production booster 20:08:35 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has joined #openttd 20:08:53 <frosch123> "maximum_monthly_supply" for hard stockpile limits 20:09:20 <frosch123> "recommended_monthly_supply" for production boosters that have some maximum effect at some point 20:09:31 <frosch123> "direct_output" for stuff that is converted into output at a fixed rate 20:09:41 *** Sacro [~ben@150.237.48.99] has joined #openttd 20:09:48 <frosch123> "shortterm_output_multiplier" for stuff that increases output temporarily 20:10:02 <frosch123> "longeterm_output_multiplier" for stuff that increases output permanently 20:10:23 <frosch123> "minimum_transport" for stuff that must be transported from the industry, for it to be happy 20:10:38 <frosch123> one would have to look up the weirdnesses of ecs and pbi :p 20:11:38 <frosch123> outputcargo might also require some "reservoir_left" for pbi expiring mines 20:11:46 <andythenorth> 'recommended' is a nice idea 20:11:55 <andythenorth> good point about PBI 20:12:11 <frosch123> so, basically a bunch of keywords with either string, integer or float as value 20:13:04 <frosch123> ideally only a few keywords, potentially estimating most industries of most sets approxiamtely 20:13:10 <andythenorth> works for me 20:13:30 <frosch123> anyone knows ecs? 20:13:35 <andythenorth> george does :) 20:13:49 <andythenorth> is there a way to do this without requiring all the tools (nml, grfcodec, renum) to be updated? :P 20:17:14 <frosch123> oh, i remember there were steel mills in some set which required both coal and iore to produce anything 20:17:30 <V453000> pbi 20:17:40 <frosch123> so, maybe "minimum_supply_ratio" 20:17:58 <frosch123> well, basically we need an overview of all industry mechanics there are :p 20:18:05 <V453000> are you guys making new specs for industries or what :D 20:18:33 <frosch123> V453000: we are trying to figure out a way, how newgrf can tell gs/ai how their industries behave 20:18:49 <V453000> :d 20:19:19 <andythenorth> imho, idealy do this in a way where any group of industry author / GS author could agree to go and do something completely different to what we thought of 20:19:35 <andythenorth> but meanwhile supporting the sets we know do exist, which aren't many 20:19:44 <frosch123> andythenorth: anyway, some industry categorisattion like "city", "rural", .. would be entirely different 20:19:51 <V453000> I might code my industries this year so expect anything :) 20:19:56 <frosch123> might be rahter a list of arbitrary keywords 20:20:03 <andythenorth> yes 20:20:09 <frosch123> though considering bananas keywords, keyword are crap 20:20:10 <andythenorth> apply multiple 20:20:17 <andythenorth> keywords are crap 20:20:20 <andythenorth> [shrug] 20:20:48 <andythenorth> make them a bit more costly: 4 letter labels or something 20:20:54 <andythenorth> and you're only allowed 1 per industry? 20:21:09 <andythenorth> then authors have to think harder 20:21:25 <V453000> please make a label OMFG and I will use that 20:21:26 <frosch123> no, 1 per industry would result in many different ones 20:22:09 <frosch123> and usually newgrf authors do it the vehicle way and just set a flag "this vehicle is too complicated for ais" :p 20:22:53 <V453000> :D 20:23:30 <frosch123> and considering banans tags, they would likely add keywords like "awesome" or their name, and even misspell them 20:23:44 <V453000> :DDD 20:24:35 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/content2.png <- just to show it again :s 20:25:17 *** megakacktus [~debussy@174-30-204-96.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Live long and prosper] 20:25:36 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.58.119.65] has joined #openttd 20:26:29 <V453000> realistic is a tag? 20:26:31 <V453000> I should have that 20:27:17 <V453000> anyway, good night 20:27:32 <frosch123> boring games today :p 20:29:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C3D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 20:31:27 <andythenorth> I would definitely add an 'awesome' flag to all industries 20:34:23 <krinn> 1s reading 20:36:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6A079.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:36:16 <krinn> you want a GS to handle FIRS ? 20:36:49 <krinn> there's no way a GS could handle a newGRF if the newGRF don't do something to hint the GS 20:37:00 <frosch123> read on :p 20:37:54 <andythenorth> unrelated, but can GS change the production multiplier yet? 20:38:02 <andythenorth> (per industry) 20:38:08 <krinn> no 20:38:10 <andythenorth> lame 20:38:31 <krinn> there's simple no way to speak with a newGRF 20:38:46 <andythenorth> this isn't the newgrf 20:39:00 <andythenorth> production multiplier is inherent to industry ;) 20:39:08 <frosch123> would it work with firs? 20:39:33 <andythenorth> not currently, but it could 20:39:36 <krinn> well, the API cannot control that for "classic" one 20:39:49 <andythenorth> the FIRS production boost could easily use the production multiplier 20:40:00 <andythenorth> only reason it doesn't is because yexo wrote code that I don't understand :) 20:40:08 <andythenorth> and I'm too lazy to restart it from scratch 20:41:24 <frosch123> well, there is no need to, as long as there is no concept :p 20:41:29 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 20:41:48 <andythenorth> having GS be able to adjust production multiplier would be neat I think 20:41:50 <frosch123> newgrf providing info to scripts via json might work 20:42:07 <frosch123> scripts giving instructions to newgrf would definite require some special library 20:42:17 <andythenorth> not the way I envisage it 20:42:38 <andythenorth> GS would monkey patch random / monthly production change 20:42:52 <andythenorth> it's up to newgrf author how that is handled :P 20:42:58 <andythenorth> I would allow it for FIRS 20:43:17 <andythenorth> "your entire map just went into recession, oops" 20:43:40 <andythenorth> "workers are on strike at this industry, bad luck" 20:43:58 <andythenorth> "you delivered 250 pax / month to this town, now the industry has new workers, well done" 20:44:00 <andythenorth> etc :P 20:44:30 <krinn> well, that's not in the API, nothing from GS->Industry only Industry->GS and not really a lot of function for that, just the basic 20:44:36 <frosch123> that sounds more like scripts setting an additional production/delivery multiplier 20:44:48 <andythenorth> my suggested method might be bad 20:44:55 <frosch123> script sets multiplier to 0.5 -> gui says "50% of production lost" 20:44:58 <andythenorth> but it has the advantage of being simple and following existing spec 20:45:08 <andythenorth> and my idea works with default industry... 20:45:24 <andythenorth> other ideas may also be good :) 20:45:45 <frosch123> well, i don't like messing with existing methods 20:45:55 <frosch123> add a new clean one instead 20:46:06 <frosch123> which is cleary meant for script influence 20:46:14 <frosch123> no convoluted thing to cover all 20:46:44 <frosch123> it would also simplify thing for ais :p 20:46:45 <andythenorth> no nasty patch :) 20:47:08 <frosch123> ais and humans should be able to tell whether an industry is messed up by the grf or by the gs 20:47:16 <frosch123> esp. when the newgrf specifies its behaviour via json 20:47:46 <frosch123> it would be silly if industries could specify their behaviour, but gs would then change it completely again :p 20:48:37 <krinn> frosch123, i'm not sure i get it, but looks as silly as a town production been change by the GS 20:49:24 <krinn> /sproduciton/growrate 20:56:34 <frosch123> night 20:56:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d0089a9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:07:19 *** NeuhNeuh [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has joined #openttd 21:07:41 <andythenorth> bye 21:07:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc22-aztw25-2-0-cust272.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:11:02 *** gynterk is now known as gynter 21:11:29 *** Aristide [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:35:19 *** NeuhNeuh [~quassel@37.175.222.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:53 *** MatrixCL2 [~mielipuol@host-109-204-157-114.tp-fne.tampereenpuhelin.net] has joined #openttd 21:45:52 *** MatrixCL [~mielipuol@host-109-204-157-114.tp-fne.tampereenpuhelin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:48:50 <Wolf01> 'night all 21:48:53 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:11:00 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 22:21:57 <SamanthaD> Did OpenTTD just get a new dependency? ./configure is complaining that I don't have any video driver development files found 22:26:15 <LordAro> D: 22:26:41 <LordAro> did you manage to uninstall them? 22:27:49 <SamanthaD> weird... I seem to have done so 22:27:56 <SamanthaD> I wonder how I managed to do that?! O.o 22:28:09 <SamanthaD> gremlins are in my computer, apparently 22:28:32 <SamanthaD> OH! I see... libjpeg62-dev conflicts with them 22:28:39 <SamanthaD> ah well 22:28:54 <SamanthaD> OpenTTD > whatever I needed libjpeg62-dev for... 22:29:35 <SamanthaD> several hours of merging... 22:29:38 <SamanthaD> let's see if this compiles! 22:31:24 * SamanthaD wishes the commit log was more verbose 22:33:59 *** amiller [~amiller@129-2-129-154.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:38:34 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:49:05 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host81-158-56-249.range81-158.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:10 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.58.119.65] has quit [Quit: client excited?? yes, it's a pleasure to use AdiIRC - http://www.adiirc.com] 22:59:02 <SamanthaD> :D VICTORY! 23:00:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6C3D.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:06:54 *** Devroush [~dennis@91.179.72.241] has quit [] 23:15:08 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 23:33:14 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1857F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:32 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 23:46:51 *** cyph3r [~Miranda@ip-213-220-193-253.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:53:11 *** Ristovski [~rafael@ppp-seco11pa2-46-193-128.78.wb.wifirst.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]