Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:31:49 *** Dark-Ace-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has joined #openttd 00:34:59 *** DarkAce-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:35:19 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-179-100-196.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:40:50 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 01:07:25 *** montalvo [~montalvo@macbook60.icrar.org] has joined #openttd 01:09:18 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-178-142-073-238.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 01:15:20 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.206.98.133.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: ~ AdiIRC Astro - www.adiirc.com ~] 01:25:53 *** Lakie [~Lakie@cpc9-wals9-2-0-cust237.16-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 01:43:12 *** fjb is now known as Guest3968 01:43:13 *** fjb [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:43:55 *** DDR [~chatzilla@S01060019dbe06285.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 01:49:50 *** Guest3968 [~frank@000158aa.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:58:12 *** Lakie [~Lakie@cpc9-wals9-2-0-cust237.16-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Sleep] 01:59:24 *** DDR [~chatzilla@S01060019dbe06285.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:06:53 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:20:56 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has joined #openttd 02:29:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D4F2.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:38:15 *** Rieksts [~chatzilla@d40a56e5.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #openttd 02:38:23 <Rieksts> Hey, why are there people working on Cargo Distribution mod but not on Cargo Destination mod? The latter one makes much more sense. 02:44:40 <Supercheese> I agree, but the developers choose what they will 02:44:46 <Supercheese> and they chose CargoDist 02:55:27 <Rieksts> Maybe because it makes OTTD similar to simutrans? But still i hope that there will be a predefined destinations option in distribution mod. 03:01:22 *** DDR [~chatzilla@S01060019dbe06285.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 03:01:44 *** imachine_ [~imachine@2a00:dcc0:eda:3754:216:3cff:fe01:8973] has joined #openttd 03:03:21 *** imachine1 [~imachine@2a00:dcc0:eda:3754:216:3cff:fe01:8973] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:28:52 <Rubidium> Rieksts: the main problem with cargodest is the enormous amount of resources that must be spent on routing all the cargo 04:29:48 <Rubidium> it simply made games unplayably slow much earlier than cargodist would 05:13:54 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@199.68.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:57 *** Pecio [~fgh@cqo51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 05:31:44 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD59C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:39:35 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 06:00:57 <planetmaker> moin 06:01:49 <maddy_> hi 06:01:58 *** DDR [~chatzilla@S01060019dbe06285.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: DDR is not Dance Dance Revolution.] 06:08:41 <Supercheese> I take it if I add a new advanced setting, I have to bump the savegame version? 06:17:22 <Xaroth|Work> depends if that setting needs to be saved with the savegame, no? 06:19:22 *** V453000 [~V453000@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:19:53 *** V453000 [~V453000@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 06:24:36 <Supercheese> how would I determine that? 06:25:40 <Supercheese> I'm thinking it would, but I'm not sure 06:25:59 <maddy_> does it change the game state or mechanics in a meaningful way, or does it just change something like the UI behavior? 06:26:50 <planetmaker> Supercheese, savegame relevant is a setting when it influences the game, like map or any game element behaviour 06:27:27 <planetmaker> non-savegame are per-user settings like language, signal distance, sound, display units... 06:27:30 <Supercheese> Well, you know which patch I'm writing 06:27:45 <Supercheese> station-naming related stuff, stored in savegame or not? 06:27:54 <planetmaker> that's savegame relevant 06:28:01 <Supercheese> Hmm 06:28:10 <planetmaker> as it has to be the same for all players 06:28:19 <Supercheese> I have to dive into saveload code then? 06:28:46 <planetmaker> For a simple setting: not really. Just add it. And increase savegame version by one 06:28:50 <Rubidium> no, you can also wade into the saveload code; much less messy ;) 06:29:06 <Supercheese> :P 06:29:19 <planetmaker> lol, Rubidium 06:31:45 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-137-197.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 06:33:35 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 06:37:34 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:49:53 <Supercheese> Broken Savegame - Referencing invalid persistent storage 06:49:56 <Supercheese> hmm 06:51:51 <maddy_> I just coded saveload yesterday, only I added new chunks, instead of editing existing ones 06:52:23 <Supercheese> I'm completely new to this 06:53:00 <Supercheese> I added one new setting, bumped the savegame version 06:53:07 <Supercheese> evidently I need to do something else 06:53:10 *** JVassie [JVassie@cpc14-nmal18-2-0-cust85.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 06:55:45 <Supercheese> or perhaps this typo was causing issues... 07:00:29 <Supercheese> nope, is apparently something else 07:18:45 <maddy_> paste it to somewhere so others can see the code 07:19:13 <Supercheese> that's the thing, I haven't modified anything else in saveload other than the savegame version 07:22:26 <Supercheese> time for bed; I'll figure this out later 07:22:36 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.126] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 07:29:16 *** JVassie [JVassie@cpc14-nmal18-2-0-cust85.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:34:28 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 07:46:19 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-179-100-196.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 07:51:06 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@85.186.160.35] has joined #openttd 08:02:39 <roboboy> grr. Not happy with the telco 08:07:16 <planetmaker> telstra? :D 08:12:29 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 08:14:53 <roboboy> well yes 08:15:34 <roboboy> I was with their ex partner and want to switch to Aldi which keeps getting rejected 08:15:56 <roboboy> ie Kogan 08:16:02 <roboboy> it's all a mess 08:22:38 <roboboy> how'd you know it would be telstra planetmaker? 08:34:31 <planetmaker> default assumption for AU :-) 08:35:09 <roboboy> heh 08:35:37 <planetmaker> got some experience with telstraclear some years ago when it was still their subsidy... 08:35:57 <planetmaker> can't say I was particularily impressed 08:36:00 <roboboy> they've just disconnected an entire telco that was using their network and I was with them 08:36:12 <planetmaker> lol 08:36:55 <roboboy> Iv'e heard lot's of people not have good customer experience with Telstra but they have the best mobile coverage in the country 08:46:49 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 09:06:18 *** Dark-Ace-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:37:41 *** George|2 [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 09:37:41 *** George is now known as Guest4013 09:37:41 *** George|2 is now known as George 09:42:35 <maddy_> planetmaker: did you have some ideas for how to represent links between signals visually? I was thinking just something simple like drawing lines between the signals when the programmin GUI is open 09:43:05 <maddy_> or, optionally, just highlighting the corresponding tiles, but that is not so good 09:43:11 <Xaroth|Work> any of you lot happen to have a clue how to best do master-master replication on a set of postgres databases? 09:43:31 <dihedral> uh 09:43:43 *** Guest4013 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:43:44 <dihedral> Xaroth, i was playing around with that at work, with actually no good result 09:44:00 <peter1138> i've only just done master-slave :S 09:44:38 <dihedral> peter1138, i would love to know more about that, that's something i could do with 09:44:39 <peter1138> documentation for that is pretty lacking 09:44:39 <Pinkbeast> maddy_: Is there a limit on link length? 09:44:54 <Xaroth|Work> crap :| 09:45:00 <peter1138> but master-slave is at least built in to postgresq now 09:45:03 <peter1138> +l 09:45:06 <maddy_> Pinkbeast: no 09:45:09 <peter1138> master-master will need external tools 09:45:25 <dihedral> Xaroth, it will probably be cheaper getting some external guru in to do the job before you waste hours (as i did) just hunting and trying and failing 09:45:40 <Pinkbeast> maddy_: In that case I think you have to consider how it will look in the perverse case where someone is doing programming in them without regard to physical proximity, which they can and will. 09:45:40 <peter1138> http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Postgres-XC 09:45:45 <peter1138> dunno how up to date that is 09:45:50 <dihedral> i know of pgpool2, but then you also must connect to pgpool2 instaed of connecting to the pg database directly 09:45:56 <peter1138> Postgres-XC (eXtensible Cluster) is a multi-master write-scalable PostgreSQL cluster based on shared-nothing architecture 09:45:58 <Xaroth|Work> aye, was looking at that as well 09:46:09 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 09:46:12 <maddy_> Pinkbeast: yes, in which case a simple line between the signals would still work 09:46:24 *** George is now known as Guest4015 09:46:54 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 09:46:59 <peter1138> PostgreSQL core modifications required: Yes 09:47:02 <peter1138> well that's a bummer 09:47:03 <Pinkbeast> Yeees, except maybe in the middle of the map where 8000 lines cross, or the cases where you have no chance to see that signal A is connected to A' because 600 other lines go the same way... 09:48:01 <peter1138> there's pgpool 09:48:05 <maddy_> Pinkbeast: well, yeah, but those cases are hard to represent visually in any case I think...I am thinking what would work for the average use case (which they are intended for): that they are used somewhat sparingly 09:48:28 <Xaroth|Work> well for this it's not -that- bad, as we're setting up a new db system 09:48:53 <Xaroth|Work> however, I can't find if -XC is stable and production-ready or not :| 09:48:59 <peter1138> it's a pain in the arse though 09:49:12 <peter1138> security update wise and all that 09:50:34 <peter1138> symmetricds? 09:51:02 *** Guest4015 [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:51:33 <Xaroth|Work> I don't think symmetricds allows for true master-master setups though 09:51:57 <peter1138> yeah, might be crippled, it's yet another one of those open source projects piggy backed off commercial software 09:52:15 <Xaroth|Work> looks like it 09:53:57 <peter1138> dihedral, the master-slave configuration i've done so far is based off their transaction log shipping 09:54:14 <peter1138> however it isn't high availability or load balanced 09:54:30 <peter1138> so if the master goes down it's manual work to switch to the slave 09:54:38 <peter1138> but at least everything is there read to go 09:55:34 <peter1138> *ready 09:56:06 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:56:13 *** montalvo [~montalvo@macbook60.icrar.org] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 09:56:15 <peter1138> i do hope they tackle HA at some point 10:00:57 *** Dark-Ace-Z [~BillyMays@50.107.55.36] has joined #openttd 10:04:04 <peter1138> http://wiki.postgresql.org/images/0/07/Ha_postgres.pdf .. hmm 10:05:51 <planetmaker> maddy_, yeah, maybe that works. Maybe you then even can borrow some code from cargodist's linkgraph 10:05:54 <Xaroth|Work> drbd 10:06:24 <Xaroth|Work> but that doesn't allow read scaling 10:06:32 <peter1138> no, that's just HA, not load balancing 10:07:10 <Xaroth|Work> yep 10:07:23 <Xaroth|Work> I'd prefer to get both out of it :P 10:07:43 <peter1138> pgpool-ii seems to have active development 10:09:36 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:10:16 <maddy_> planetmaker: yeah I will try to look at to for example 10:10:45 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 10:12:07 *** flaa [~flaa@89.100.79.103] has joined #openttd 10:14:38 <peter1138> Someone⢠just needs to bang it all together 10:23:15 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:37:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D4F2.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 10:39:50 <dihedral> Xaroth, peter1138 : either of you use something for 'version control' regarding structure and content? 10:41:37 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [] 10:44:36 <peter1138> of postgresql? no 10:45:29 <dihedral> shame 10:46:08 <peter1138> simplest thing i can think of is a pgdump of the structure, stored in git 10:46:15 <dihedral> it would come quite handy, as our product is configured via db and I could that way get 'revisions' corresponding to releases of the software 10:46:26 <dihedral> it's not just the structure 10:46:26 <peter1138> *nod* 10:46:36 <peter1138> well you can do the same with data too 10:46:48 <peter1138> though i would keep initial data separate from structure 10:47:50 <dihedral> yeah 10:47:52 <dihedral> makes sense 10:48:34 <peter1138> if you change the structure you'll always need some manual way to update that structure when you upgrade a live install 10:48:37 <peter1138> hmm 10:50:55 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:51:17 <dihedral> that actually is already in place 10:51:27 <dihedral> changing the structure during updates 10:51:37 <peter1138> yeah 10:52:53 <peter1138> bah, everything on scan.co.uk gets 5 star reviews 10:53:03 <peter1138> sounds like "i bought it so it must be good" syndrome 10:53:10 <peter1138> i'm sure there's a name for that 10:54:55 *** wakou2 [~stephen@host86-179-100-196.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:55:05 <maddy_> delusion, denial? 10:56:09 <peter1138> need to replace a couple of old 120GB drives... dunno what to get :S 10:56:46 <Pinkbeast> As in, which hard drive manufacturer? 10:56:51 *** Guest3949 [~oftc-webi@173-161-213-235-Philadelphia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:00 <peter1138> right 10:57:22 *** roboboy [~robotboy@0001164c.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:57:42 <Pinkbeast> We-employer use Seagate which I believe is the result of some sort of experience. 10:57:43 <peter1138> heh, 4TB for £125... 11:01:43 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 11:05:41 <fjb> Moin 11:06:20 <planetmaker> o/ 11:07:02 <peter1138> not sure i trust a 4TB drive... all that data loss if it dies :p 11:07:14 <peter1138> i'm sure we said the same thing about 4GB drives :D 11:07:50 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 11:08:24 <fjb> We did. 11:08:37 <fjb> Use backups. 11:09:00 <peter1138> and what is a suitable backup media for up to 4TB of storage? 11:09:26 <fjb> A 4TB storage? 11:09:29 *** phatmatt [~zyz100@00015646.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:09:50 <phatmatt> here's a code question out of nowhere: what's the easiest way to go from a Trackdir to a Direction? 11:10:10 <phatmatt> i can see Trackdir -> Track, but not Trackdir -> Direction conversion helpers 11:11:14 *** frodus [~frodus_de@213.184.210.134] has joined #openttd 11:11:24 <planetmaker> TrackdirToExitdir maybe? 11:11:49 <peter1138> quicker than me :( 11:12:06 <phatmatt> isn't that outputting a DiagDirection? 11:12:15 <phatmatt> yeah 11:12:21 <fjb> peter1138: You were lost on your storage. 11:14:38 <peter1138> DiagDirToDir(TrackdirToExitdir(...)) maybe 11:15:13 <phatmatt> well, that loses information for non-diagonal trackdirs 11:15:22 <phatmatt> i guess i have to write my own 11:15:40 <peter1138> converting trackdir to direction will always do that 11:16:08 <peter1138> hm, i see what you want 11:17:25 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.206.98.133.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 11:19:06 <phatmatt> i guess it doesn't exist because i'm meant to be just using diagdirs, and toggling the trackdir's lowest bit to switch non-diagonal track sides 11:19:11 <phatmatt> as i'm moving across the map 11:19:36 <phatmatt> but i do actually need just the dir here, oh well 11:22:02 <maddy_> sounds like you need to write a small utility function yourself for that purpose 11:23:00 <phatmatt> guess so 11:24:50 <phatmatt> i was just suprised there wasn't one already, since every other conversion seems to be covered ;) 11:24:57 <phatmatt> thanks 11:26:08 <peter1138> i fancy a giant marblemadness style controller 11:26:17 <peter1138> and then scroll around the map using that :D 11:26:37 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #openttd 11:27:52 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:34:25 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 11:37:15 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@node-13603.pppoe.execulink.com] has joined #openttd 11:37:32 <DanMacK> Hey all 11:39:08 <planetmaker> o/ 11:48:32 <Malinux-> will there be diagnoal briges any time? 11:48:41 <DanMacK> When you code them 11:48:44 <phatmatt> funny you ask. 11:48:50 <phatmatt> guess what i'm coding right now 11:49:05 <Pinkbeast> Non-linear tunnels? 11:49:06 <DanMacK> is that possible w/the current engine? 11:49:22 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:49:43 <phatmatt> DanMacK: i don't see why not. i'm just experimenting right now 11:49:50 <MINM> Sure is. as long as you spend a bit of time implementing a 'tunnel' layer/dimension 11:49:50 <DanMacK> Nifty 11:50:03 <phatmatt> oh, i was talking about just diag tunnels/bridges 11:50:07 <phatmatt> not non-linear. sorry ;) 11:50:14 <MINM> because you'd need a way to save these tunnel coordinates. 11:50:31 * DanMacK is still waiting for Custom Bridgeheads in trunk 11:50:39 <Pinkbeast> When I looked at it, it didn't seem like it would need a true-3D layer, just a bit of cleverness to know which tunnels fouled which areas of the map. 11:51:49 <phatmatt> it would be easy if the train actually disappeared while in the tunnel, but you can still see its position by following it of course 11:52:01 <phatmatt> i guess you could fake the track layout in the tunnel 11:52:19 <MINM> for which, Pinkbeast? non-linear or diagonal? 11:52:22 <phatmatt> would be hard if the terrain was weird though 11:52:42 <MINM> because the former would seem like it needs a 3d layer to me 11:55:50 <phatmatt> it wouldn't *need* one, but it would be very icky without one. 11:56:00 <phatmatt> and on the flipside, it would be pretty "easy" with one 11:56:43 <Pinkbeast> It certainly doesn't need one. Fundamentally, now, when you build a tunnel, the game checks it doesn't intersect any existing tunnels or poke out of the ground. That would still need to be done. 11:58:06 <Pinkbeast> And yes, when a vehicle's in a tunnel, its position and speed are determined from knowing where it entered the ground and the metadata about the wormhole, it's just at the moment there isn't very much metadata 12:01:03 <Malinux-> DanMacK: yeah.. I am one of those who complain and wish things, but dosen't code myself... :p 12:01:08 <Pinkbeast> It's all harder for bridges because you'd have to draw them </captain obvious> 12:03:24 <phatmatt> Pinkbeast: perhaps if i add diag bridges, and force a caged artist to draw some art for them, that part will be easier :P 12:04:41 <phatmatt> first compile after first pass modifying stuff... let's see how it goes 12:06:42 <Malinux-> I also wonder about singals on bridges and in tunnels. I think this is very challenging to do as it hasen't been done yet :) 12:07:18 <maddy_> isn't there a patch for it? 12:07:19 <Pinkbeast> Malinux-: It has (but rarely well) 12:07:36 <Pinkbeast> ... I didn't even mention forking tunnels, did I? :-) 12:10:04 <phatmatt> stations on brdiges 12:10:06 <phatmatt> *bridges 12:10:11 <phatmatt> and, of course, in tunnels. 12:10:57 <MINM> there is/was a patch for it, yes, but it's hacky 12:11:06 <MINM> signals on bridges/tunnels I mean 12:17:21 *** frodus [~frodus_de@213.184.210.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:18:55 <Malinux-> maddy_: I have seen a kind of patch for singals in tunnels 12:21:33 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Quit: reboot] 12:29:53 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@ip82-139-82-247.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 12:30:16 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:42:29 <phatmatt> compiles and runs. place bets on how quickly it crashes 12:43:14 <MINM> what? 12:43:16 * DanMacK loves having a canal system 12:43:48 <phatmatt> MINM: never mind. i was talking about my diagonal bridge/tunnels changes 12:44:11 *** Elukka [~Elukka@a91-152-213-89.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 12:57:14 *** ST2 [~ST2@bl6-252-81.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 13:02:50 *** xT2 [~ST2@bl6-252-81.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:05:20 <Belugas> hello 13:11:38 *** Pecio [~fgh@cqo51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has left #openttd [] 13:12:47 <fjb> Moin Sir Belugas 13:14:19 <__ln__> http://kuvaton.com/browse/27432/dont_try_this.jpg 13:15:27 <fjb> Moin __ln__ 13:18:04 <__ln__> guten moin fjb 13:19:48 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:24:20 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 13:24:30 <fjb> :) 13:29:01 <dihedral> peter1138, regarding ssd i am personally a fan of samsung 13:29:04 <dihedral> esp. when it gets to natively encrypted ssd's 13:29:07 <dihedral> enter the wrong password 10 times, ssd gets trimmed :-P 13:29:09 <dihedral> and i used to purchase things from dabs.com 13:31:27 <peter1138> i'm not buying an ssd 13:31:30 <peter1138> i've already got one :p 13:31:54 <peter1138> but my bios is too old to understand hdd passwords or something 13:50:16 *** t1488t [~id@37.140.99.39] has joined #openttd 13:55:42 <juzza1> do those ssds with native encryption have some kind of bootloader where you input the password? 14:03:47 *** mindlesstux [~mindlestu@raspberrypi.mindlesstux.com] has joined #openttd 14:09:46 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:15:49 <peter1138> no, it's meant to be handled by the BIOS 14:16:13 <peter1138> but i've never seen a BIOS with the option, but that may just be because it's only visible with the feature available on the drive 14:16:38 <peter1138> the encryption is done in hardware on the drive, which is handy 14:17:37 <peter1138> it's basically "free" encryption, though not usuable if you need to do things like key rotation 14:17:44 <peter1138> *usable 14:20:52 <juzza1> ok 14:21:31 <peter1138> i guess it's supported by more modern computers 14:22:22 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-042-133.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 14:22:23 <juzza1> modern cpus already support aes through hw, so it doesnt seem that useful to me 14:23:50 <peter1138> it still requires the cpu to do it 14:24:16 <peter1138> if you were doing some heavy encryption load, that's aes cycles taken away from whatever you needed to do 15:07:09 *** perk11 [~perk11@broadband-46-242-13-101.nationalcablenetworks.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:24:55 *** alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 15:28:04 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:30:54 *** TheMask96 [martijn@polaris.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:42:41 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-165-38-96.range86-165.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 15:43:19 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@199.68.113.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 15:43:39 <LordAro> /o 15:43:56 <peter1138> o\ 15:46:43 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [] 16:05:54 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@wirenat2.strw.leidenuniv.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:09:28 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-042-133.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 16:13:57 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@pool-96-236-139-72.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 16:14:27 <Terkhen> hello 16:16:41 *** namad7 [~aaaaa@pool-96-236-139-72.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 16:20:07 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18A69.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:20:36 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 16:21:44 <LordAro> hai Terkhen 16:28:39 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 16:32:39 <DanMacK> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=21457&p=1093413#p1093413 16:32:47 <DanMacK> oops :P 16:35:12 <Pinkbeast> DanMacK: Not _another_ A1 Class, my brain hurts. :-) 16:36:13 <DanMacK> lmao 16:36:26 <DanMacK> that's the first one :P 16:37:06 <Pinkbeast> Fair point. I have just been having the "no, Tornado is a Peppercorn A1, that's actually after the Gresley A4s" conversation quite a lot recently :-) 16:38:35 <DanMacK> Ahhh 16:38:52 <DanMacK> And yes, it is a Peppercorn A1 16:39:04 <DanMacK> You're British I assume? 16:39:52 <Pinkbeast> Yes, and went to York to see the six surviving A4s so had the conversation with non-enthusiasts quite a lot. 16:41:18 <DanMacK> The new construction there blows my mind 16:41:26 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #openttd 16:41:29 <DanMacK> I wish they'd do it in North America 16:42:19 <Pinkbeast> DanMacK: Well, it's not new construction, but I read UP have bought and are restoring a Big Boy, and there's those mad Project 130 types too... 16:42:43 <DanMacK> The Big Boy project's been stalled for years AFAIK 16:42:46 <Pinkbeast> If I had a squillion quid I'd be building the Wardale 5AT. 16:43:01 <Pinkbeast> DanMacK: No, quite recently, it was in _Steam Railway_ this month 16:43:11 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:43:13 <DanMacK> hmmm 16:43:33 <Pinkbeast> http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-union-pacific-big-boy-locomotive20130729,0,2255582.story - they just bought one. (I think there might be another Big Boy restoration going nowhere?) 16:43:48 <DanMacK> Well shit... 16:44:07 <DanMacK> If anyone can do it, it's UP 16:44:41 <Pinkbeast> DanMacK: Certainly the situation where an ordinary mainline operator restores a locomotive is unknown here (pity) 16:45:12 <DanMacK> true 16:45:45 <DanMacK> but the reconstruction of a new locomotive or reconstruction of a long abandoned railway is pretty unheard of in North America 16:45:54 <Pinkbeast> Project 130 seem a bit confused about what they're doing, but if they can have a decent crack at the speed record that'll be interesting. 16:46:32 <DanMacK> Yeah 16:46:37 <DanMacK> The Big Boy thing is cool 16:47:46 <DanMacK> Love to see an new CPR F2 4-4-4 built here 16:48:15 <Pinkbeast> DanMacK: I have no real idea how many classes the USA is "missing", in the sense the Peppercorn A1s were before Tornado. 16:48:39 <DanMacK> well, there are tons 16:48:49 <DanMacK> because the US had so many different railroads 16:49:13 <Pinkbeast> DanMacK: Well, so did we before the "Big Four", but I think most of the gaps are being closed. 16:49:28 <DanMacK> Yeah 16:49:48 <Pinkbeast> Depends how far back you go, but they're (say) building a GWR "Saint" which is the main hole there. 16:50:31 <DanMacK> Which they're doing 16:50:54 <Pinkbeast> How far back: for example to my knowledge Firefly is the only running broad gauge locomotive (a replica) and you can travel perhaps 50 feet behind it 16:50:54 <DanMacK> well... sort of 16:54:03 <Pinkbeast> DanMacK: I don't know why the US doesn't have more new-build, you're not exactly short of rich eccentrics 16:54:23 <DanMacK> Well, I'm Canadian, but yeah 16:55:17 <Pinkbeast> DanMacK: *shame* 16:55:21 <Pinkbeast> DanMacK: I am terribly sorry. 16:55:26 <DanMacK> lmao 16:55:30 <DanMacK> np 16:55:57 * Pinkbeast did live with a Canadian for eight years, he really ought to think of that. 17:00:12 <Rieksts> Does cargodist recalculate trough what route to send cargo based on previous cargo delivery times? 17:01:13 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6bc4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:01:21 <Pinkbeast> Rieksts: Not as I understand it - just percieved link capacity. 17:01:23 <Rieksts> I did some reconstruction on one of mainlines, had to stop many trains and some strange cargo started transfering trough very inefficient routes 17:01:44 <Rieksts> nem the *strange 17:01:49 <Rieksts> nvm* 17:02:02 <Pinkbeast> That would be consistent with a chance in measured capacity. 17:02:38 <Rieksts> ahhh I meant cargodest. Wtf, guess my brain is not working properly atm, time for a pause :D 17:03:29 <Pinkbeast> Rieksts: I don't know what cargodest does, sorry 17:04:41 <Rieksts> Gold just piling up in station far away from its destination. 17:05:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 17:05:17 <Rieksts> ok i guess I am on my own, if I wont figure this out I will submit my save to cargodest thread 17:05:21 <andythenorth> DanMacK: I think we can consolidate open and flat 17:05:25 <andythenorth> also van and fridge 17:07:14 <DanMacK> Nice 17:09:03 <LordAro> cargodist* there is a difference 17:09:33 <Pinkbeast> LordAro: Er, surely that is why Rieksts specifically corrected themselves to say "cargodest". 17:10:17 <LordAro> oh right. :p 17:11:35 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:11:38 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:12:03 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18A69.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has left #openttd [] 17:40:25 *** JVassie [JVassie@cpc14-nmal18-2-0-cust85.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #openttd 17:43:46 <planetmaker> moin 17:44:44 <LordAro> /o 17:45:31 <DanMacK> Hey James 17:45:34 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25739 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-08-21 17:45:24 UTC) 17:45:35 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:36 <DorpsGek> afrikaans - 218 changes by mulderpf 17:45:37 <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 1 changes by siu238X 17:45:38 <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 1 changes by siu238X 17:47:57 *** t1488t [~id@37.140.99.39] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:49:49 <maddy_> my patch has lots of things left to do, but I am going to just release the first version 17:51:28 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:51:31 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 17:51:55 <Alberth> o/ 17:52:15 <planetmaker> hi Alberth 17:53:31 <frosch123> moin 18:03:50 <maddy_> oh my, my forum post was not approved, any of you a mod at tt-forums who can approve it? 18:04:20 <JVassie> ill take al ook ;) 18:09:31 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:14 *** Hendrick [~Hendrick@212.93.100.46] has joined #openttd 18:20:24 <maddy_> cool it's published, thanks, hope you guys go check it out when you have time 18:23:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i should do something either useful or fun, but i get immediately bored when i start anything... what's wrong with me? 18:24:15 <LordAro> depression? :L 18:24:25 <LordAro> seriously, i've been somewhat similar lately 18:24:54 <LordAro> i think perhaps the key is to stick with it, and keep going 18:24:55 <JVassie> o/ Eddi|zuHause long time no speak :) 18:25:56 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:26:01 <Wolf01> hi o/ 18:31:03 <Alberth> hi hi 18:33:00 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: in my experience fun comes when you get in close contact with the problems, and try to find your way around them. From a distance it does not look like a lot of fun to solve stuff 18:45:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D464.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:48:01 *** Jomann [~abchirk@f052015037.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:30 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D4F2.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:56:19 *** Jomann [~abchirk@f052023046.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 18:57:01 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:57:04 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 19:01:11 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-137-197.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:02:55 *** DanMacK [DanMacK@node-13603.pppoe.execulink.com] has left #openttd [] 19:11:47 *** Rieksts [~chatzilla@d40a56e5.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130814063812]] 19:19:27 *** smallfly [~smallfly@p5B0B7DFD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:22:03 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-042-133.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 19:30:51 *** smallfly [~smallfly@p5B0B7DFD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 19:34:23 *** mindlesstux [~mindlestu@raspberrypi.mindlesstux.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:50:30 *** alluke [~oftc-webi@cs181208223.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:03:19 *** mindlesstux [~mindlestu@raspberrypi.mindlesstux.com] has joined #openttd 20:08:57 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 20:11:40 *** ntoskrnl [~not@a91-153-231-146.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:14:59 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has joined #openttd 20:17:54 *** Hendrick [~Hendrick@212.93.100.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:19:17 <fjb> Moin 20:20:24 <Rubidium> moimoi 20:22:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i have an idea: if you "force" a train through a path signal, you force to unreserve all paths that it crosses, and tell the trains that this path backtracks to to "wait for free path" instead 20:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that way, the forced train will get a valid path 20:23:02 <Eddi|zuHause> and the other trains won't crash it as long as they have enough distance to stop 20:23:19 <Rubidium> ... and the other train will not have a path and continue running into the just reserved path and... takes the 90 degree corner to crash and burn 20:23:49 <Eddi|zuHause> no, "wait for free path" would imply "stop immediately" 20:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause> same deceleration as if you hit the stop button 20:25:04 <Rubidium> then it can still stop shy of the just newly reserved path and cause the same issue 20:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 20:25:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that is then the player's fault 20:25:21 <Rubidium> and now to make things worse... 20:25:37 <Rubidium> ... it isn't realistic to unreserve a path 20:25:44 <planetmaker> :D 20:26:08 <Rubidium> if that happens in the real world several minutes need to pass before the unreserving actually takes place 20:26:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: let's assume you had a near-miss and you stopped all trains in time 20:27:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: now you want to cancel all reservations and start the trains one-by-one to clear the crossing 20:27:56 <Rubidium> turn them around to cancel the reservation? 20:28:35 <Rubidium> but... in the first place, you shouldn't be working on a line that is in service! 20:28:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but you can't turn around a broken down train 20:28:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: and this is totally not obvious to users 20:29:30 *** George [~George@212.113.107.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:29:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i'm just trying to make this a little more useful, currently there is no situation whatsoever where you can force a train through a path signal and not get a crash 20:30:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the way i proposed is more like "ok, this train now gets priority" 20:30:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and assuming all other trains are stopped, there should be no bad side effects 20:31:55 <Rubidium> well... I'm not going to implement or test it 20:32:11 <Eddi|zuHause> (small detail: you should prevent unreserving a trackbit which has a vehicle on it. and if unreserving fails, the train should not start unless you force it a second time) 20:32:13 <Rubidium> and this whole thing is already complex enough 20:32:38 <Rubidium> and IIRC a path signal is only passed after forcing twice 20:32:49 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. which is weird at best 20:33:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no clue what the mechanics behind that even is 20:33:07 <Rubidium> me neither 20:33:18 <Rubidium> anyhow... the easier solution would be: 20:33:25 <Rubidium> * remove 90 degree turns 20:33:34 <Rubidium> * and remove forcing to pass signals at danger 20:33:57 <Rubidium> * and possibly... remove breakdowns 20:34:01 <Eddi|zuHause> but how are you going to resolve deadlocks? 20:34:11 <Rubidium> * and if they're really whiny... remove crashes 20:35:06 <Rubidium> that'll definitely have a speed improvement bonus ;) 20:35:10 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: "one force" means "unstuck train", "double force" mand "unstuck and ignore signal" 20:35:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but the cause of the crash is that the path is not unreserved in the first place. not that following the path violates the 90° setting 20:35:58 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: anyway, if rb argues that it takes several minutes irl for the line to clear, you should ask what daylength factor applies in ottd for that :p 20:39:00 <JVassie> anyone else here using Zernebok hosting? 20:39:27 <Prof_Frink> Bok. 20:42:56 <Eddi|zuHause> why would anyone in his right mind do that :p 20:43:26 <Eddi|zuHause> (why would anyone here be in his right mind?) 20:44:24 <JVassie> trying to work out if its blocked outgoing ports for SMTP 20:47:23 <Rubidium> just looked it up... if a signal is revoked the switches of the reserved path will remain locked into position for at least two minutes. This to allow the driver to perform an emergency stop (or to allow the computer in the train to do so). Only after those two minutes the switches can changed so another path can be taken. 20:47:43 <Rubidium> I propose to use 2 minutes IRL as "safety" margin then ;) 20:47:57 <Rubidium> (or little more than the time it takes for a crashed train to clear) 20:58:31 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@98.145.153.126] has joined #openttd 21:00:08 <Eddi|zuHause> but that would require us keeping track of "stopping distance" 21:00:25 <Eddi|zuHause> which is not at all what i intended to say 21:01:20 <Eddi|zuHause> what i meant: "if all trains are stopped and one is forced through, that force should take a safe state if possible" 21:08:30 <frosch123> night 21:08:34 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590f6bc4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:11:13 *** oskari89 [oskari89@62-241-226-106.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:16:20 *** Dark-Ace-Z is now known as DarkAceZ 21:17:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18A69.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:28:15 <LordAro> what's the best way to get the char* of a StringID ? 21:29:19 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18A69.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:25 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@5070A0D5.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:44:19 <Wolf01> 'night 21:44:22 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:48:37 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@85.186.160.35] has quit [] 21:51:05 <__ln__> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57591551-83/ex-stasi-boss-green-with-envy-over-nsas-domestic-spy-powers/ 21:52:09 <Supercheese> Well, the assertion of, "X old tyrannical group would have been envious of Y new tyrannical group" will almost always be true, simply due to new technologies 22:07:46 *** LordAro [~LordAro@host86-165-38-96.range86-165.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:17:32 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-46-68.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 22:21:44 *** Alice3 [~Alice@cpc18-grim14-2-0-cust478.12-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [] 22:22:43 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:52:27 *** flaa [~flaa@89.100.79.103] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:17:39 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:25:58 *** Devroush [~dennis@dD5765BAC.access.telenet.be] has quit [] 23:27:41 *** JVassie [JVassie@cpc14-nmal18-2-0-cust85.19-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:29:29 *** pugi [~pugi@host-091-097-042-133.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 23:33:27 <Eddi|zuHause> well, in dutch population surveys they asked for religion, and when the nazis invaded they said "hey, cool, now we know who to deport" 23:34:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@i59F6D464.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@i59F6D464.versanet.de] has joined #openttd