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Log for #openttd on 4th April 2014:
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00:22:46  <shaunof99> anyone anyone on the public server?
00:24:37  <Eddi|zuHause> wrong chat
00:28:51  <shaunof99> soory
00:28:55  <shaunof99> sorry*
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00:47:39  <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: would your code work for trams too
00:47:40  <supermop> ?
00:47:57  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: yeah
00:48:50  <Eddi|zuHause> just pull it, and replece every occurance of "VEH_TRAIN" by "VEH_ROAD" or so
00:49:06  <Eddi|zuHause> then add or remove properties as you wish
00:49:06  <supermop> so if _ and | are longer than / and \, what length are the intermediate angles?
00:49:25  <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: use the existing template graphics
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07:29:31  <__ln___> http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/03/california-man-who-lasered-two-helicopters-to-face-14-years-behind-bars/
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09:00:22  <roboboy> hello
09:01:15  <maddy_> hi
09:03:21  <roboboy> I was wondering if it is considered good or bad practise to store escape sequences in strings stored in a database?
09:07:23  <maddy_> for example?
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09:16:23  <roboboy> I am storing some strings that will be placed as text on labels in Windows and the Windows API treats & specially to denote the keyboard shortcut for that control, so would it be bad to store & as && in the string?
09:24:35  <planetmaker> roboboy, that depends on how those strings are treated internally, whether you work cross-platform
09:24:45  <planetmaker> generally that does not sound like a good idea
09:25:24  <planetmaker> if working cross-platform, I'd rather I'd try introduce pragmas which are replaced by OS-specific stuff then and keep OS-specific stuff out of strings
09:25:45  <planetmaker> but this got nothing to do with openttd, GS or NewGRFs ,or?
09:25:51  <roboboy> ok, so I should do it in code pending further investigation as I am using .Net
09:26:46  <roboboy> This channel usually has stuff other than OpenTTD and I have seen general programmin discusion in here before. I shall not ask OT stuff again
09:27:38  <planetmaker> it's alright when all quiet, I guess. But context makes a difference for an answer
09:29:33  <planetmaker> where off-topic reminds me... I wanted to thank __ln__ for the metorite movie yesterday :D
09:42:32  <__ln__> you're welcome
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09:50:43  <maddy_> roboboy: I think generally it is best to keep database strings as "plain text" so they are more generic, and then handle escaping in code before displaying them
09:51:20  <maddy_> I guess either way work, as long as you are consistent, and don't end up with 2 mixed practices
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11:24:39  <supermop> hi
11:33:22  <maddy_> hi
11:45:25  <supermop> whats going on?
11:53:11  <maddy_> not much, at work
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12:37:36  <peter1138> Ok
12:37:57  <peter1138> Doing hg update, it popped up gvimdiff to get a merge.
12:38:01  <peter1138> What do I do? :S
12:39:32  <planetmaker> edit files such that the merge is ok?
12:39:58  <planetmaker> you likely had a modified state of the repo. And it tries to merge your modifications with the new revision
12:40:17  <planetmaker> if you want to throw away your edits, then hg up -C -rXXX
12:40:35  <peter1138> Yes, I know why, but it's not clear what to do, like save or whatever.
12:40:47  <planetmaker> depends on what you want
12:41:00  <planetmaker> so you're asking about introduction to gvimdiff?
12:41:06  <peter1138> Yup
12:41:18  <planetmaker> I don't like it either :P
12:41:42  <planetmaker> but the usual vi shortcuts work
12:41:56  <planetmaker> but I don't know how to switch windows
12:42:09  <peter1138> It's gvimdiff so I can cheat and use the mouse :)
12:43:51  <planetmaker> for the future, you might want to edit your ~/.hgrc and add in the [ui] section like
12:43:53  <planetmaker> merge = kdiff3
12:43:59  <planetmaker> if you prefer kdiff3
12:44:16  <planetmaker> I find that much easier to use
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14:51:43  <peter1138> I maded a patch!
14:51:49  <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/fixellipsis.diff
14:52:23  <peter1138> Bit late for 1.4 eh
15:03:31  <LordAro> emergency hotfix!
15:10:21  <Xaroth|Work> oh boy
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15:32:26  <__ln__> http://imgur.com/a/GRIzy
15:39:55  <Xaroth|Work> heh
15:40:04  <Xaroth|Work> i've seen that link fly by a few times today
15:40:07  <planetmaker> hm, nice to see issues dealt with
15:40:22  <planetmaker> the issue has been edited / partially removed meanwhile, though
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16:11:46  <ZirconiumX> Hello everyone. Any Linux gurus around?
16:12:05  <ZirconiumX> I can't play any MIDI music on 1.4.0
16:12:46  <ZirconiumX> I've fluidsynth set up, and have tested it to make sure it plays music
16:14:25  <ZirconiumX> I do get the vehicle sounds though, so it isn't like fluidsynth is hogging alsa.
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16:35:19  * ZirconiumX clears throat
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16:44:07  <peter1138> Is ottd hogging alsa? heh
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16:44:56  <ZirconiumX> Seems not
16:46:17  <ZirconiumX> Nope. I can play music using fluidsynth and hear vehicle sounds from OpenTTD
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16:54:55  <peter1138> Hmm, works for me.
16:55:18  <ZirconiumX> You using fluidsynth or timidity?
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16:57:29  <peter1138> Either.
16:57:43  <ZirconiumX> Hrm.
16:57:57  <peter1138> Playing via pmidi, with ALSA_OUTPUT_PORTS set beforehand.
16:58:42  <ZirconiumX> Portmidi. Hmmm
16:59:18  <ZirconiumX> What could be different between our systems? I'm using Arch Linux.
17:01:45  <ZirconiumX> So http://wiki.openttd.org/FAQ_troubleshooting#There_is_no_sound_or_no_music_on_Linux works for you?
17:02:29  <ZirconiumX> Don't have a emu10k sound card
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17:09:32  <ZirconiumX> 3 years later - $ ALSA_OUTPUT_PORTS=128:0 openttd -m extmidi:cmd=aplaymidi
17:09:54  <ZirconiumX> Now I have an organ playing continuously in the background, but at least I have music
17:14:34  <ZirconiumX> After installing pmidi, I have something that works.
17:14:54  <ZirconiumX> Still, a workaround like that indicates a bug or two.
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17:17:27  <peter1138> Workaround? How was it set up before?
17:18:14  <ZirconiumX> I was just using the default OpenTTD stuff, which appears to be broken on Linux (but works on windows...)
17:19:03  <ZirconiumX> I had to manually perform $ ALSA_OUTPUT_PORTS=128:0 openttd -m extmidi:cmd=pmidi
17:19:21  <peter1138> If you don't specify anything then it tries to use timidity.
17:20:03  <ZirconiumX> That makes sense
17:20:13  <ZirconiumX> Since I am using fluidsynth, it failed
17:20:27  <peter1138> If you don't have timidity installed, it wouldn't work.
17:21:16  <ZirconiumX> If only I considered my C++ skills up to scratch
17:21:23  <ZirconiumX> Then I'd fix that myself.
17:21:27  <peter1138> Fix what?
17:21:51  <peter1138> It's all configurable, but the default command is just "timidity" if none is specified.
17:22:50  <ZirconiumX> maybe we could add that to openttd.cfg instead of having to specify it on the command line (which means PCManFM will launch OpenTTD without any MIDI support)
17:23:01  <peter1138> You can add it to openttd.cfg
17:23:18  <ZirconiumX> musicdriver
17:23:18  <peter1138> musicdriver = "extmidi:cmd=blah"
17:23:52  <peter1138> No idea what PCManFM is.
17:24:53  <ZirconiumX> The file manager for LXDE
17:27:45  <peter1138> People launch programs from a file manager now?
17:27:47  <peter1138> Hmm.
17:27:59  <ZirconiumX> *cough* Ubuntu *cough*
17:28:46  <peter1138> There are menus and things...
17:29:03  <ZirconiumX> I take it you don't use Unity, then...
17:29:16  <peter1138> I don't use Ubuntu.
17:29:29  <peter1138> But Unity uses the .desktop files, no?
17:29:41  <ZirconiumX> Think so. Not sure.
17:32:12  <ZirconiumX> Is there any way to tell OpenTTD to run a command on startup?
17:34:02  <planetmaker> ZirconiumX, but even if you launch from file manager - editing the openttd.cfg gives the appropriate effect?
17:34:16  <ZirconiumX> Nope.
17:34:25  <planetmaker> ehm?
17:34:42  <ZirconiumX> It runs pmidi without telling ALSA where to put the MIDI
17:34:42  <planetmaker> you edited the correct cfg file then?
17:35:16  <ZirconiumX> $ ALSA_OUTPUT_PORTS=128:0 openttd -m extmidi:cmd=pmidi <-- works fine
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17:36:15  <ZirconiumX> Using the musicdriver setting in openttd.cfg removes the -m bit, but doesn't change the ALSA_OUT_PORTS=128:0 part.
17:36:33  <ZirconiumX> (or otherwise I haven't found out how to add the ALSA_OUT_PORTS bit)
17:36:43  <peter1138> Yeah, arguments never got added to extmidi so you can't do cmd=pmidi -p 128:0
17:37:26  <ZirconiumX> That sucks.
17:37:54  <glx> then just run a .sh instead the exe
17:38:00  <peter1138> Yup, make a wrapper script.
17:38:30  <glx> like .bat on msdos/windows in the old time
17:41:50  <ZirconiumX> Looks like I can't write shell scripts very well...
17:43:24  <planetmaker> #!/bin/bash
17:43:39  <planetmaker> openttd parameters you need to put
17:43:42  <planetmaker> done
17:43:51  <planetmaker> (done is not part of script anymore)
17:44:30  <ZirconiumX> Well, having realised my mistake , it vaguely works
17:45:04  <ZirconiumX> I'm being deafened by the hanging pmidi processes having not done noteoffs at kill time
17:45:07  <ZirconiumX> But it works
17:45:33  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26444 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2014-04-04 17:45:23 UTC)
17:45:34  <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:35  <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 5 changes by siu238X, xiangyigao
17:45:36  <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 2 changes by siu238X
17:45:37  <DorpsGek> czech - 1 changes by marek995
17:45:38  <DorpsGek> german - 1 changes by Jogio
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17:47:36  <ZirconiumX> Well, thank you all very much!
17:54:26  <LordAro> good lord, it's a ZirconiumX
17:54:44  <ZirconiumX> It's the Lord himself
17:54:45  <peter1138> ZirconiumX, use aplaymidi then, I think that does note offs.
17:55:03  <peter1138> Not sure why pmidi doesn't, or why the midi files don't have them at the end.
17:55:36  <LordAro> i've had issues getting ottd to play midi music in the past
17:55:45  <LordAro> can't remember if i ever resolved them
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17:57:21  <ZirconiumX> pmidi will play the song regardless of the stop button.
17:57:48  <ZirconiumX> aplaymidi will stop playing any more notes after the stop button. No noteoffs though
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17:59:43  <planetmaker> quak :)
17:59:56  <frosch123> hola
18:00:05  <ZirconiumX> planetmaker is now a duck, apparently.
18:00:46  <LordAro> quak frosch123
18:01:08  <ZirconiumX> LordAro too?!
18:01:11  <mg_> hi. i downloaded 32bit z-base graphics. it looks good but i can't find any newgrf to replace default ground tiles (green terrain + trees). is there some magic newgrf that i'm missing?
18:01:30  <LordAro> ZirconiumX, heh, you must be new here :p
18:01:36  <planetmaker> yeah :P
18:01:49  <ZirconiumX> I'm not new, I just haven't been here in 3 odd years.
18:01:55  <planetmaker> mg_, you mean 32bpp terrain NewGRFs to replace zBase' terrain tiles?
18:01:59  <LordAro> mg_, zbase should do that magically
18:02:09  <LordAro> mg_, example screenshot?
18:02:21  <planetmaker> if you have 8bpp terrain tiles, then you use a NewGRF which replaces ground tiles
18:02:32  <planetmaker> or you haven't yet activated zBase :)
18:02:35  <mg_> i mean, i have zBase graphics set
18:02:44  <planetmaker> activated in game options?
18:02:51  <mg_> buildings seem fine
18:02:52  <mg_> yes
18:03:02  <mg_> coal mines, power stations etc are ok
18:03:12  <mg_> but "grass" is not, and trees
18:03:22  <planetmaker> and no NewGRFs active? (screenshot using ctrl+s, upload to imagebin.com)
18:03:31  <ZirconiumX> are giant alien spaceships
18:03:47  <ZirconiumX> Dammit planetmaker, you ninja'd me.
18:03:49  <mg_> about 30 newgrfs active
18:04:03  <planetmaker> zBase provides 32bpp graphics for all tiles. So if you have no 32bpp for some, that's one of your NewGRFs
18:04:38  <mg_> planetmaker: i see, so i will try again with disabled newgrfs
18:05:14  <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: it's weird how they're all like "it's a different language, copyright doesn't apply"... at least german copyright explicitly mentions "translating to other languages" as being covered
18:05:54  <mg_> planetmaker: it works now :P
18:06:32  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, I'm sure it's under most legislations. It's still a derivative after all
18:06:37  <mg_> thanks
18:06:43  <planetmaker> you're welcome
18:08:24  <Eddi|zuHause> people having strong opinions on things they don't fully understand is one of the most dangerous things in this world
18:08:57  <planetmaker> yeah
18:09:07  <NGC3982> It's very human, though.
18:09:23  <ZirconiumX> Eddi|zuHause - sadly that's part of human nature
18:09:25  <planetmaker> quite
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18:42:58  <heffer> planetmaker: opengfx 0.5.0 somehow broke the make check target
18:43:50  <heffer> http://paste.fedoraproject.org/91769/37012139/
18:46:53  <maddy_> if there is one thing I love about openttd is that it almost never crashes (not even with nightly builds)
18:47:04  <ZirconiumX> "almost never"
18:47:14  <glx> <@planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, I'm sure it's under most legislations. It's still a derivative after all <-- even if not derivative, there's at least copyright on the translator work usually (plus the original rights holder who allowed the translation)
18:47:32  <maddy_> ZirconiumX: at least not for me :)
18:47:56  <ZirconiumX> Mainline OpenTTD is very stable. I've only ever found one bug in it, which was fixed quickly
18:51:25  <heffer> maddy_: I maintain openttd for more than 5 years in Fedora now. I had my fair share of bugreports including nasty coredumps and backtraces :)
18:51:50  <heffer> but what I always found amazing was that I came here to this channel and the guys usually had stuff fixed in less than an hour
18:52:11  <maddy_> yeah the devs are really awesome
18:53:04  <glx> we hate crashes
18:53:19  <heffer> i always drop very cryptic backtraces in here and they are always like "yeah, looks like that happens when 3 vehicles drive to close to the border of the map and a train just breaks down by chance and also all moons align"
18:53:45  <heffer> all from like 20 lines of backtraces
18:53:58  <maddy_> hehe
18:54:05  <ZirconiumX> Hmm. Maybe I should become a maintainer.
18:54:23  <glx> once we know where it happens it's easier to imagine why it happens (and fix it)
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18:56:12  <Wolf01> buonasera o/
18:57:41  <LordAro> hihi
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20:05:59  <Taede> evenink
20:06:17  <Wolf01> hi hi
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20:36:40  <frosch123> night
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21:51:26  <zydeco> morning
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23:38:37  <Wolf01> 'night
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