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00:07:03 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:08:02 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:a55c:cd30:ad92:69e0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:29 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@87.113.229.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:27:40 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@229.168.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 00:35:35 *** killertester [~igor@pppoe244h131.ppp.kmv.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:15:17 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:20:31 *** Guest11323 [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:25 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.227.205] has joined #openttd 01:40:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.163.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:22:11 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@179.180.214.127] has joined #openttd 02:23:14 *** fkinglag [~fkinglag@c-76-17-226-121.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:26:59 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.59.227.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:27:02 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 02:36:57 *** fkinglag [~fkinglag@c-76-17-226-121.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 02:47:31 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:32:25 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@189.58.25.67.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:51:11 *** LSky_net [~LSky_net@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 03:51:16 <LSky_net> morning 03:52:19 <LSky_net> I woke up to this, anyone have an idea what that relates to? 03:52:21 <LSky_net> Message: Assertion failed at line 127 of .../src/core/smallstack_type.hpp: PooledSmallStack::CanAllocateItem() 04:13:26 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 04:18:41 *** tycoondemon2 [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 04:18:41 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:26:29 *** LSky_net [~LSky_net@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: irc2go] 04:42:54 *** Pereba [~UserNick@179.180.214.127] has quit [Quit: (._. ) ( ._.) ( '-') ('-' ) Are you using AdiIRC? [www.adiirc.com]] 04:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@93.198.110.64] has quit [] 05:01:30 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:01:46 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:05:49 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 05:11:20 *** LSky` [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 05:16:15 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:36:55 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 05:43:45 *** Hazzard_ [~quassel@67.174.253.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:51:04 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 05:54:04 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 05:54:07 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 05:57:24 *** pthagnar [~pthagnar@cpc7-pres17-2-0-cust28.18-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 05:57:54 *** tycoondemon2 [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:00:20 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-227-190.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:03:01 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:11:01 <planetmaker> moin 06:16:53 <V453000> yetis go moo 06:16:55 <V453000> when they poo 06:17:39 <planetmaker> :P 06:23:57 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 06:24:04 <Flygon> But what do planets do? 06:24:10 <Flygon> What do THEY make? 06:25:12 <planetmaker> they make places Yeti like to poo on ;) 06:25:28 <planetmaker> while they moo, of course 06:27:05 *** Tanguy [~tanguy@2a01:e34:ee8f:150:82ee:73ff:fe43:b876] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:24 *** Tanguy [~tanguy@2a01:e34:ee8f:150:82ee:73ff:fe43:b876] has joined #openttd 06:38:25 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:d2d:7c02:28c:210d] has joined #openttd 06:44:01 <V453000> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6138/3-X_f1.wmv 06:44:01 <V453000> serious yeti business 06:44:01 <V453000> and final details could be later :) 06:44:01 <V453000> some graphical bugs but that only takes re-rendering now :) 06:46:28 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:d2d:7c02:28c:210d] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:49:37 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:d2d:7c02:28c:210d] has joined #openttd 06:59:24 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:59:24 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:23 <kiz> those glasses :D 07:02:15 <V453000> nice, it is noticeable :D i wasnt sure 07:08:34 <Aristide> Hi ^^ 07:09:52 <V453000> nohi 07:10:20 <Aristide> :) 07:10:44 <Aristide> TCL install many Parkings xD 07:12:55 *** Pensacola [~quassel@62.194.220.216] has joined #openttd 07:18:45 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 07:29:27 *** chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.55.245] has joined #openttd 07:30:23 <LSky`> nice stuff V453000 07:33:06 <LSky`> im guesing thats the vehicle factory? 07:33:26 <Xaroth|Work> I sure hope it's not the food processing plant 07:33:32 <LSky`> i dont know man 07:33:37 <LSky`> it looked pretty yummy 07:53:49 <V453000> it is the machinery factory yes :) 07:54:09 <V453000> machinery increases effectiveness of workers for primary industries, something like supplies 07:59:32 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 07:59:54 <Aristide> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqVQmZfc8m0 <3 08:15:12 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 08:18:34 *** killertester [~igor@pppoe244h131.ppp.kmv.ru] has joined #openttd 08:28:12 <V453000> the fuck is that 08:29:15 <Aristide> V453000: I like Hybrid bus :D 08:29:20 <Aristide> But cost 380 000 Euros :x 08:36:04 <peter1139> What a horrible noise. 08:38:59 *** montalvo [~montalvo@88-108-226-192.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 08:40:54 <V453000> yeti busses aint making no noise (: 08:41:39 <peter1139> Road vehicle running sounds! 08:42:15 <V453000> nà 08:47:04 *** montalvo [~montalvo@88-108-226-192.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:51:52 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host-2-99-57-163.as13285.net] has joined #openttd 08:55:23 <Aristide> x) 08:56:09 <Aristide> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYkTGNG-JD0 Hehe a trolleybus (Cristalis ETB12) 09:38:19 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:20 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 09:53:02 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 09:53:12 <V453000> you are seriously ill 09:53:16 <V453000> there isnt even anything to be seen 09:53:18 <V453000> just seats 10:26:24 *** Aristide [~quassel@2a01:e35:2eb9:64b0:d2d:7c02:28c:210d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:30:31 *** LSky [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:35:31 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:45 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 10:36:30 *** LSky` [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:32:06 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:36 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 11:39:12 *** Klanticus [~quassel@189.35.191.71] has joined #openttd 11:41:03 <Rubidium> LSky: I hope you're using a patched version that throws that assertion. It means that something tries to allocate a pool item without checking whether there is space for a new pool item 11:42:05 <V453000> you cant build swimming pools in openttd. 11:43:44 *** yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:50:11 <planetmaker> so not true, V453000 ! 11:51:05 <planetmaker> heck, even the default 'houses' have a fountain in which you surely can swim :) 11:53:10 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [] 11:59:04 <V453000> I stand corrected 12:01:27 <planetmaker> pew. Lucky me that you agree so easily. Or I would have had to make a swimming pool object newgrf ;) 12:03:22 <planetmaker> but would be a nice easter-egg thing for one or another grf :) 12:11:06 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has joined #openttd 12:21:45 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@93.198.111.72] has joined #openttd 12:28:03 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:32:23 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:34:33 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@179.234.178.102] has joined #openttd 12:38:05 *** Klanticus [~quassel@189.35.191.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:38:26 <Flygon> What we really need 12:38:32 <Flygon> Is a method of having day and night 12:38:36 <Flygon> And a GRF that like 12:38:45 <Flygon> Shows couples swimming in the pool at night 12:38:46 <Flygon> B3 12:40:00 *** kais58__ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 12:41:45 *** kais58_ [~kais58@cpc3-cwma7-2-0-cust221.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:48:12 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 12:48:58 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:50:39 *** kais58__ is now known as kais58|AFK 12:53:46 *** Aristide [~quassel@fr-01.frozenway.com] has joined #openttd 12:54:39 <Aristide> V453000: I like inside of trolleybus :x 12:56:54 <V453000> sounds wrong 12:57:11 <V453000> Flygon: just make a newgrf which changes everything and all sprites turn to dark every odd year 12:57:12 <V453000> eazy 12:57:37 <V453000> idk if possible for landscape 12:58:08 <Flygon> V453000: Don't worry, I wasn't completely seriou 12:58:09 <Flygon> s 12:58:47 <Flygon> I do think a day-night system with those day patches that actually give a 24 hour clock into the game would be awesometastic though 12:59:52 <V453000> no need to interconnect that 13:00:02 <V453000> having day for 1 year and night for another year would be nice enough 13:00:13 <Flygon> I know 13:00:16 <Flygon> But, eh 13:00:19 <Flygon> I'm a romantic 13:00:43 <Flygon> I envisage, someday 13:01:10 <Flygon> A standard gauge HST line from Melbourne to Broken Hill, assuming HST = 250km/h max 13:01:18 <Flygon> Via Bendigo and Swan Hill 13:01:22 <Flygon> Others would call me mad 13:01:25 <planetmaker> V453000, that actually is not entirely possible. You cannot change infrastructure and landscape sprites. They don't have the required facilities to check for time 13:01:30 <Flygon> I call it a method of printing money in OpenTTD 13:01:47 <V453000> that is what I was saying pm :) "idk if possible for landscape" 13:01:57 <planetmaker> sorry, slow reading :P 13:02:02 <V453000> but having those things able to check for that would be nice too 13:02:08 <V453000> especially for e.g. randomizing landscape 13:02:11 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: which is a problem since TTRS switched road sets... why has that not been adressed yet? 13:02:32 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, it has. There's a fix for that in the openttd repository 13:02:38 <planetmaker> for desyncing multiplayer by that means ;) 13:03:07 <planetmaker> but the fix is differently... disabling the time dependence for MP entirely :P 13:03:59 <planetmaker> V453000, yes, it would. I totally agree. Such feature has nasty thorns, though 13:04:14 <V453000> right 13:04:18 <planetmaker> Especially thorns from the cpu usage twitch ;) 13:04:25 <V453000> aha 13:04:26 <V453000> azz 13:05:26 <planetmaker> but then... nearly every feature takes cpu :) 13:06:27 <V453000> remove all features 13:06:38 <planetmaker> indeed. solves many problems :P 13:06:59 <planetmaker> your sprites can have any colour you like. Provided it's black :P 13:07:48 <V453000> =D 13:07:53 <V453000> perfect 13:08:27 <planetmaker> also they can choose that any time at at any frequency you like ;) 13:10:22 *** bdavenport [~davenport@aeolus.mindlesstux.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 13:19:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6C79E.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:36:01 *** Pulec [pulec@unaffilated.amunak.net] has joined #openttd 13:39:38 *** killertester [~igor@pppoe244h131.ppp.kmv.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:01:49 *** guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:17:28 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:24:13 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.178.102] has joined #openttd 14:28:25 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@179.234.178.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:36:17 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 15:04:39 *** Hazzard [~Hazzard@207.163.167.2] has joined #openttd 15:22:47 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 15:22:50 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 15:26:05 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58__ 15:30:35 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:34:34 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:42:25 *** Aristide [~quassel@fr-01.frozenway.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:46 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A8DA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 15:57:36 *** Phreeze [~p@vodsl-9420.vo.lu] has joined #openttd 16:00:10 <Phreeze> https://www.facebook.com/pages/Construction-and-management-simulation/108695132497309?nr 16:00:20 <Phreeze> just noticed that theres a ottd or ttd screenshot :) 16:00:29 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:37 <Phreeze> ah ottd ;) 16:27:00 *** LSky [LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [] 16:36:08 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 16:54:00 *** fkinglag [~fkinglag@c-76-17-226-121.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:56:32 *** chrswk [~chrswk@213.188.55.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:37 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:59:40 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:06:40 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C34A3.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:07:40 *** fkinglag [~fkinglag@c-76-17-226-121.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 17:17:02 <Rubidium> planetmaker: transparent is a more useful color for speeding up drawing ;) 17:19:36 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.184] has quit [] 17:21:24 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@179.234.178.102] has joined #openttd 17:25:35 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.178.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:29:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:29:41 <andythenorth> o/ 17:30:11 <Alberth> hi hi 17:46:10 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26607 /trunk/src/lang (6 files) (2014-05-23 17:45:58 UTC) 17:46:11 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:46:12 <DorpsGek> catalan - 25 changes by juanjo 17:46:13 <DorpsGek> simplified_chinese - 3 changes by xiangyigao 17:46:14 <DorpsGek> croatian - 17 changes by VoyagerOne 17:46:15 <DorpsGek> czech - 7 changes by Eskymak 17:46:16 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 7 changes by Stabilitronas 17:46:17 <DorpsGek> russian - 8 changes by Lone_Wolf 17:46:20 <andythenorth> where is cat? 17:46:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01170e.pool.mediaways.net] has joined #openttd 17:46:58 <andythenorth> here is frog 17:47:01 <andythenorth> frog is not cat 17:47:03 <andythenorth> nor bird 17:52:51 <Supercheese> @seen cat 17:52:51 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: I have not seen cat. 17:52:58 <Supercheese> Here has never been cat 17:55:41 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@13-17-191-195.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has joined #openttd 17:58:43 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A8DA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:26 <frosch123> no, but i believe we have a cow 18:04:05 <andythenorth> moof 18:05:11 <frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3356/ <- though it claims there is some ambiguouty about moo 18:06:59 <Alberth> V is clearly the expert :) 18:08:03 <frosch123> http://paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3357/ <- maybe V is uncertain about his animalish orientation 18:08:43 <planetmaker> nah, I'd not claim that. He just took foreign language courses 18:10:29 <andythenorth> are we making anything? 18:10:57 * Alberth just made a new patch 18:11:06 * planetmaker works on building nml-py3. 18:11:18 <Alberth> and /me is wondering about making some tea 18:11:23 <planetmaker> oh, good idea 18:11:54 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:12:00 <Alberth> meow 18:12:14 <andythenorth> coffee? 18:12:16 * andythenorth wonders 18:12:20 <andythenorth> maybe Iâll play the game 18:12:25 <Wolf01> woff 18:12:37 <andythenorth> or maybe Iâll fix the UI elements that are failing colour contrast 18:12:39 <andythenorth> work 18:12:54 <Alberth> #paint it black 18:14:38 <Wolf01> paint it like one of your french girls 18:15:28 <Xaroth|Work> planetmaker: for unix or win? 18:17:32 <planetmaker> Xaroth, unix was done weeks ago 18:17:50 <Xaroth|Work> then what's wrong with win? 18:17:54 <planetmaker> and actually I 'just' need to get it done for the right wine version as we have on the server 18:18:04 <planetmaker> Xaroth, cx_freeze working under wine... 18:18:21 <planetmaker> and configuring the CF to like that 18:19:02 <Xaroth|Work> why cx_freeze? does it require some strange lib? 18:19:40 <planetmaker> if you give me another means to create a simple-to-use exe file for windows users... feel free 18:19:58 <Alberth> for some reason, MS doesn't install a useful program like Python on their machine :( 18:20:09 <planetmaker> yeah. Nor provides a package manager to do so 18:20:10 <Xaroth|Work> hrnf, if they have python3 installed, iirc, you don't -have- to make it an exe 18:20:34 <planetmaker> Xaroth, then not. But then it still requires setting up all paths etc. pp 18:20:41 <Alberth> Xaroth|Work: obviously, most don't have that :) 18:20:53 *** Pensacola [~quassel@62.194.220.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:58 <planetmaker> I can meanwhile also provide an installer which works with a py3 install. But as alberth says. 18:21:18 <planetmaker> And those require possibly installers tailored for the specific python version. So many more packages which need building 18:21:30 <Xaroth|Work> ah, lame 18:21:53 <planetmaker> yeah. The world is lame in some parts 18:22:25 <Xaroth|Work> yeh, I'm used to being able to tell people to install libraries mine needs :P 18:23:23 *** Hazzard [~Hazzard@207.163.167.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:25:43 * Alberth is pretty sure, my Linux DVD has what Xaroth|Work needs :p 18:26:46 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:01 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has joined #openttd 18:31:16 <V453000> andythenorth: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6138/3-X_f1.wmv (: 18:31:57 <V453000> doing something (: 18:34:35 <andythenorth> people are going to love these 18:35:06 <Eddi|zuHause> 2010-12-21 01:30:50 <Eddi|zuHause> and a black cow says "yo man, moo man!" <-- how did that ever come out of my brain? 18:35:31 <V453000> people =! important 18:35:37 <V453000> != (: 18:38:43 <Alberth> this will be the first newgrf I want to play at 4x zoom :) 18:40:03 <V453000> :) 18:51:35 * andythenorth does work 18:51:51 *** guru3 [~guru3@000128ea.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:15:29 <V453000> so how do I code an industry newgrf? :D 19:16:05 <andythenorth> you get planetmaker to do it 19:16:12 <andythenorth> or Alberth 19:17:07 <V453000> that sounds ... reasonable but hm :) 19:17:30 <V453000> I am not very sure they want to do the minionizing :P 19:18:05 <Alberth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/opengfx-mars-industries/repository/show/src 19:18:59 <andythenorth> V453000: do you want to do anything clever / fancy? 19:19:15 * Alberth considers moving pictures fance 19:19:20 <Alberth> *fancy 19:20:07 <V453000> primaries have base production based on game date (is possible?), primaries do not produce anything without workers, delivered workers increase production, delivered machinery increases effectiveness of workers 19:21:14 <V453000> is that a reasonable mechanism? 19:21:19 <andythenorth> try it and see 19:21:26 <andythenorth> youâll probably want templating 19:21:28 <planetmaker> yeah, try and see 19:21:32 <V453000> Alberth: thanks, that looks helpful 19:21:41 <V453000> I meant reasonably possible to code 19:21:45 <V453000> not game-wise 19:21:51 <planetmaker> possible, sure 19:21:52 <andythenorth> yes itâs reasonable, but not short 19:22:11 <andythenorth> you could look at FIRS, to see what not to do :) 19:22:18 <andythenorth> FIRS has a lot of history 19:22:27 <V453000> dont think I can wrap my head around FIRS code 19:22:34 <Alberth> nml needs a macro expander :) 19:22:46 <V453000> templating sounds good since I want to make all industries work super similarly, at the same time I think I would kill more time than save 19:23:17 <Alberth> V453000: that code is probably as basic as it gets 19:23:20 <andythenorth> Alberth: yexo was mostly -1 to that I think 19:23:28 <V453000> right 19:23:37 <Alberth> andythenorth: why? 19:23:40 <peter1139> hello 19:23:52 <planetmaker> Alberth, "re-inventing the wheel" 19:23:53 <Alberth> o/ 19:23:59 <planetmaker> but not sure I agree 19:24:22 <Alberth> yeah, making people install cpp is friendlier :) 19:24:37 <andythenorth> also ânml has other more important features to add' 19:25:05 <Alberth> I agree, if only I could understand it all :) 19:26:12 <Alberth> for me, it would be better to start from scratch, but that would take a few years probably 19:27:21 <andythenorth> hello peter1139 19:27:52 <andythenorth> Alberth: start nml from scratch? 19:27:58 <andythenorth> :o 19:28:34 <Alberth> do you know a better way to understand nfo & nml? 19:31:04 *** bdavenport [~davenport@aeolus.mindlesstux.com] has joined #openttd 19:38:12 <andythenorth> no 19:43:37 *** KritiK [~Maxim@0001264a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:45:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: reimplement it in C++ while you're at it :) 19:46:08 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@179.234.178.102] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:03 <Alberth> actually, I had plans of making a linkable newgrf format :) 19:51:10 <LordAro> Alberth: also, you're busy doing more important (tm) things ;) 19:51:25 *** Speedy [~speedy@the.wrong.domain.name] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:51:35 <Alberth> yeah, as usual :( 19:53:48 *** talebowl [~delltvgat@ip-81-11-208-46.dsl.scarlet.be] has joined #openttd 20:06:01 <andythenorth> linkable newgrf format \o/ :) 20:06:47 <andythenorth> I wondered if a pure python format could be managed :P 20:07:00 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has left #openttd [] 20:07:02 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 20:07:25 <andythenorth> just define classes for all entities 20:07:45 <andythenorth> then write out nfo or newgrf format directly 20:08:32 <andythenorth> probably not general-purpose enough :P 20:09:01 <Eddi|zuHause> # Und Gott sprach zu der Menge: 20:09:05 <Eddi|zuHause> # IHR SEID SO LEISE 20:09:05 <Alberth> sounds like a bit too general purpose to me :) 20:09:09 <planetmaker> andythenorth, linkable does not necessarily mean to define everything as classes or so 20:09:27 <planetmaker> just that you can define and build each vehicle / industry / ... separately and link it later 20:09:50 <Alberth> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linker_%28computing%29 <-- this linking 20:10:21 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@13-17-191-195.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:11:35 <andythenorth> I know :) 20:12:50 <andythenorth> Alberth: youâd change the newgrf format, or the meta language, or both? 20:13:29 <Alberth> neither 20:13:47 <Alberth> you get an intermediate format just above newgrf 20:14:46 <Alberth> although if you use a textual format, you'll probably end up with something nfo-ish 20:16:09 <andythenorth> would this be transparent to current nml authors? 20:16:15 <andythenorth> or would it require a change in authoring? 20:16:30 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.58.122.250] has joined #openttd 20:17:23 <planetmaker> ideally it should be. 20:18:18 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.164.39] has quit [] 20:19:44 <andythenorth> what (how?) analysis would be done to identify what needs re-compiled and linked? 20:19:53 <Alberth> you should be able to do partial compilation 20:20:38 <planetmaker> andythenorth, *that*, I guess, is the interesting question 20:20:54 <Alberth> that's what make has been doing for a long time (not sure if it still does that), but currently it's useless 20:21:13 <Alberth> and linking, you need to link everything, don't you? 20:22:24 <Alberth> ie you can run a compile for just one industry 20:22:33 <Alberth> (theoretically at least) 20:23:05 <Alberth> do that for every industry, and then link all pieces into firs.grf 20:23:11 <planetmaker> I wonder how to deal with the ID issue, though. Whether to replace them on the run. Or whether to keep two 'pools', a global and local ones 20:23:34 <Alberth> set during linking, i think 20:23:34 <andythenorth> global and local scopes :P 20:23:41 <andythenorth> make the author do it right 20:24:20 <planetmaker> set during linking means we need to run at least an ID replacement in the object code 20:24:46 <Alberth> you need to do that anyway, to connect stuff together 20:25:00 <Alberth> also you need to write out the result, so you need to load all data 20:25:58 <andythenorth> hmm 20:27:33 <andythenorth> donât we need to then inspect all IDs? 20:28:00 <andythenorth> or does using pools prevent colissions? 20:28:04 <LordAro> clearly you should be writing nnml 20:28:12 <planetmaker> andythenorth, not necessarily. if the objectfile specifies the localIDs just and indicates those which are global and need remain unmodified 20:28:14 <LordAro> new newgrf meta language 20:29:02 <Alberth> I am not convinced you have any global IDs 20:29:22 <andythenorth> chameleon forces local for IDs (var names). Global IDs have to be explicitly defined, and are disliked 20:29:24 <Alberth> just claim you need one, and the linker will give you one 20:29:26 <andythenorth> like many other languages 20:30:23 <Alberth> note in my book, an ID is just a name, rather than a number 20:30:42 <andythenorth> canât we do something brutal, like just force declaration of all global IDs at top of file? 20:30:47 <andythenorth> ugly but works 20:30:50 <andythenorth> ugly is bad : 20:30:51 <andythenorth> :P 20:31:00 <planetmaker> Alberth, I'm conviced you have global IDs 20:31:11 <planetmaker> e.g. the grf parameters, they are necessarily global IDs 20:31:19 <andythenorth> http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/emotion_design_at.html 20:31:32 <Alberth> planetmaker: why? 20:31:45 <planetmaker> newgrf parameters? We cannot do without them, can't we? 20:31:54 <Alberth> sure we cannot 20:32:00 <planetmaker> how would we treat parameters which set vehicle costs? 20:32:22 <Alberth> name it "vehicle_cost_parameter_setting" 20:32:39 *** Phreeze [~p@vodsl-9420.vo.lu] has quit [] 20:32:50 <Alberth> the action 14 declares it as provider, and some other code declares it as needing it 20:33:05 <Alberth> does it matter what number it actually has? 20:33:22 <planetmaker> not. As long as it's the same in every linked module 20:33:51 <Alberth> the linker ensures that everybody using that name will get the assigned number 20:34:17 <Alberth> and even after the last use, it may be re-used for other purposes 20:34:36 <Alberth> the linker can figure out what the last user is, I think 20:35:07 <Alberth> ie the intermediate format uses symbolic numbers, rather than real ones 20:38:06 <andythenorth> unrelated, but I wondered about teaching nmlc to compile from multiple fles (from a manifest) 20:38:43 <andythenorth> seems like a simple thing that would help some authors split up their code better 20:44:49 <Alberth> hmm, that would be before the scanner, it's quite feasible, actually 20:45:34 <andythenorth> I would have thought so 20:45:44 <andythenorth> I have python code in my compiles for it 20:45:47 <andythenorth> pretty trivial 20:46:25 <Alberth> it needs some error reporting fixing perhaps 20:47:01 <Alberth> and Python doesn't exactly like long string manipulations 20:48:02 <andythenorth> canât we just append to an object for readlines in files or something? 20:48:08 <andythenorth> that may make no sense 20:48:50 * andythenorth plays actual ottd 20:50:13 <Eddi|zuHause> ... but... cpp already handles connecting files and error reporting locations... 20:50:17 <Alberth> it doesn't read lines, unless you modify the scanner 20:51:03 <Eddi|zuHause> nmlc even has code for understanding cpp error location output 20:51:17 <Alberth> yep, /me added that 20:51:25 <andythenorth> teach authors cpp? 20:51:36 <Alberth> otherwise people get hopelessly lost with an error 20:51:42 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if it also resolves the "included from ..." part 20:51:45 <andythenorth> everyone has to install gcc? 20:52:04 <planetmaker> doing without cpp would not be a bad idea 20:52:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: everyone has to install make? 20:52:48 <andythenorth> I dunno 20:52:50 <andythenorth> do they? :) 20:52:51 * Alberth doesn't understand the need for make, except as an easy way to bundle scripts in one file 20:52:59 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but do you want to reimplement _every_ feature of cpp? if you don't, people who use those features will just stick with cpp anyway 20:53:16 <andythenorth> I only use make because of devzone 20:53:20 <Rubidium> maybe a stupid idea... but doesn't NML need PLY? What about /usr/share/pyshared/ply/cpp.py ? 20:53:23 <Alberth> which every feature? 20:53:23 <andythenorth> and making tar 20:54:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: you mean like nmlc just runs cpp internally? 20:54:18 <andythenorth> and because âainât broke, donât fix" 20:54:18 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, no. But which of those features are actually used? 20:54:19 <Alberth> Rubidium: I looked at that, but iirc there was something not useful about it 20:54:29 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: exactly ;) 20:54:46 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i certainly use some pretty crazy features 20:55:28 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: just take the VEH_ID macro(s) 20:55:29 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, no-one will stop you doing that. And it won't become impossible 20:56:10 <Eddi|zuHause> no sane person would invent that :p 20:56:16 <planetmaker> but the average user might already profit much when a few basic cpp capabilities become possible 20:56:29 <planetmaker> like include or some simple macros 20:56:39 <frosch123> night 20:56:43 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01170e.pool.mediaways.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 20:56:44 <Alberth> in particular multi-line macros 20:57:27 <Eddi|zuHause> "but who needs THAT??" 20:57:36 <planetmaker> :P 20:57:54 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, the argument that everything needs to be mimiced is not one which cuts 20:58:16 <planetmaker> Nor what is needed. But providing more options for basic use helps to push the border to where more 20:58:24 <planetmaker> sophisticated parsers are needed further 20:58:32 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: possibly, but wherever you make the cut, you will get complaints 20:58:48 <planetmaker> of course. But that's no difference to now 20:58:59 <planetmaker> and like always, every journey starts with a first step 20:59:13 <planetmaker> going like "you need everything" is not useful for that 21:00:17 <Eddi|zuHause> there is also the other direction: things that are done with cpp are often not the optimal solution, there may be better solutions (like avoiding double include and stuff) 21:00:37 <planetmaker> and if we always add the most-needed thing, we'll get there^ 21:00:40 <andythenorth> is anything done with cpp an _optimal_ solution? o_O 21:00:43 * andythenorth is trolling 21:00:58 <planetmaker> andythenorth, that's indeed a valid question. Possibly #include is. Not sure about the rest 21:01:02 <planetmaker> maybe #define 21:01:14 <andythenorth> constant substitution is fricking awesome 21:01:26 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: depends on your metric 21:01:32 <andythenorth> we got a long way in the first cpp FIRS with constant substitution 21:01:59 * andythenorth wonders about python built-in $ templating 21:02:15 <talebowl> I'm assuming that in general, if something isn't covered in the coding guidelines, it shouldn't be used, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask anyway: (a) should/can the member initializer list be used; -- (b) should/can uniform initializer syntax be used? 21:02:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't need constant substitution if the compiler has proper constant folding 21:02:50 <Eddi|zuHause> optimizing out "parameters" if they never change 21:04:52 <Eddi|zuHause> as such, i think "#define" is one of the least optimal solutions (the quick-and-dirty kind) 21:05:49 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@ip503d7ac1.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:04 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@80.61.122.193] has joined #openttd 21:06:31 <andythenorth> in what perspective? 21:06:35 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, but it helps for the legibility of code, if you can like #define some_stuff = var1 - var2 + 2 * var3 * param0 21:06:55 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I have a view, but why least optimal? 21:08:11 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but then you differentiate between the value of the term or the textual representation of the term. those are very different things 21:11:14 * andythenorth -> sliip 21:11:18 <andythenorth> urgh canât type 21:11:19 <andythenorth> bed 21:11:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:12:08 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 21:16:11 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.58.122.250] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC: Nothing compares to it!  [www.adiirc.com]] 21:37:56 *** tyteen4a03 [tyteen@Daedalusx.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:17 *** montalvo_ [~montalvo@79-78-214-33.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd 21:46:23 *** montalvo_ [~montalvo@79-78-214-33.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [] 21:46:33 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A8DA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:47:44 *** montalvo [~montalvo@host-2-99-57-163.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:02:01 *** talebowl [~delltvgat@ip-81-11-208-46.dsl.scarlet.be] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:02:39 *** Chrill [Chrill@c83-253-85-93.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 22:07:34 *** Chrill [Chrill@c83-253-85-93.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [] 22:18:50 <Wolf01> 'night all 22:18:55 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:30:41 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.58.122.250] has joined #openttd 23:11:46 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1A8DA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:28 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@177.206.97.200.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 23:30:57 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:33:48 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.58.122.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:33:51 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 23:54:30 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.206.97.200.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:56:16 *** fkinglag [~fkinglag@c-76-17-226-121.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]