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It doesn't have ranges 08:22:04 * andythenorth could never run a blag with comments on it 08:22:15 <andythenorth> people would be wrong on my internet 08:22:24 <andythenorth> also I have hoss 08:22:39 <Pikkaphone> people can be wrong 08:22:44 <Pikkaphone> clearly 08:23:35 <andythenorth> also brake vans 08:23:38 <andythenorth> theyâre wrong 08:23:40 <Pikkaphone> mmmm, hoss 08:24:05 <Pikkaphone> brake vans are a bad feature 08:24:16 <Pikkaphone> cabeese are fine though 08:24:31 <andythenorth> I have cabeesed my brakes 08:24:35 <andythenorth> at least in code 08:24:53 <Pikkaphone> I have fixed your doorbell from the ringing 08:25:00 <andythenorth> thanks 08:25:00 <Pikkaphone> there is no charge 08:25:02 <andythenorth> it has been sticky 08:25:19 <andythenorth> I keep having to talk myself out of âideasâ :P 08:25:33 <andythenorth> latest bad feature: wagons go slower if no brake van 08:25:34 <Pikkaphone> such as? 08:25:41 <Pikkaphone> hmmmm 08:25:46 <andythenorth> bad feature 08:25:49 <Pikkaphone> but ai 08:25:56 <Pikkaphone> and bad feature 08:26:14 <Pikkaphone> brake van tycoon 08:26:44 <andythenorth> also more narrow gauge wagons, with different speed limits 08:26:46 <andythenorth> bad feature 08:26:54 <andythenorth> 45mph -> 55mph, who cares? 08:27:02 <andythenorth> just auto-replace management bollocks 08:27:05 <Pikkaphone> not me 08:27:34 <andythenorth> that makes two of us 08:27:36 <andythenorth> so thatâs everybody 08:27:43 <Pikkaphone> pretty much 08:28:28 * andythenorth deletes cruft 08:28:32 <andythenorth> that FISH set, so crufty 08:28:33 <Pikkaphone> also it means drawing more wogans 08:29:27 <Pikkaphone> narrow gauge ships 08:29:45 <Pikkaphone> with brake vans 08:31:05 <andythenorth> Norris ship 08:31:06 <Pikkaphone> Where's heqboots? I photographed some handy work barges the other day. 08:31:18 <andythenorth> heqboots is an idea I considered 08:31:26 <andythenorth> dredgingsquid 08:31:34 <andythenorth> jackupbargesquid 08:31:40 <andythenorth> heavyliftsquid 08:31:53 <andythenorth> small problem of ânot useful' 08:32:11 <andythenorth> also there should be a much bigger range of vehicles 08:32:18 <andythenorth> whilst also being a much smaller range of vehicles 08:32:24 <andythenorth> so that I can fit every niche 08:32:47 <andythenorth> I am really in agreement with your idea that niches are over-rated in TTD, and I would like more vehicles for my niches 08:32:59 <V453000> wtf are you considering again andy :D 08:33:30 <andythenorth> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/80/RFA_Sir_Tristram_%26_MV_Dan_Lifter_late_1982.JPG 08:33:33 <andythenorth> bootboots 08:33:41 <andythenorth> http://twistedsifter.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/blue-marlin-heavy-lift-ship-transports-rigs-and-other-ships-5.jpg 08:34:17 <V453000> :D 08:34:31 <andythenorth> http://www.heavyliftspecialist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/DockwiseBarges01.jpg 08:34:33 <V453000> sounds good 08:34:45 <andythenorth> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-neRec39jfyA/T2jR13yoNlI/AAAAAAAAArc/jGlCn8z4il4/s1600/BLUE-MARLIN-880.jpg 08:34:52 <andythenorth> bargeboots 08:35:18 <andythenorth> V453000: you would enjoy the comments on pikkaâs blag http://pikkarail.com/openttd/state-of-the-onion-a-history-and-future-of-my-newgrfs/ 08:35:20 *** abculatter_2 [~abculatte@135.sub-166-167-81.myvzw.com] has joined #openttd 08:35:31 <andythenorth> except thereâs one from V453000 who is rubbish 08:37:12 <V453000> :d 08:41:23 <V453000> the comments do not seem very interesting 08:41:43 <V453000> just shows that people are a bunch of spoilt fuckers who think one is going to upkeep their grfs forever and in ALL the possible ways 08:42:15 <andythenorth> Iâll do that!! me! me! 08:42:24 <V453000> admittedly making UKRS/NARS2 open sourced might be a great idea Pikkaphone 08:42:48 <andythenorth> NewNARS 08:42:53 <andythenorth> nmlNARS 08:42:56 <andythenorth> NARSNARS 08:43:05 <andythenorth> NARSRenewal 08:43:06 <V453000> noregearingNARS 08:43:23 <Pikkaphone> I've said anyone who wants to use those graphics can, v 08:43:35 <V453000> oh, sorry then :) 08:43:51 <abculatter_2> So, I had an idea for a new climate, wanted to see how feasible it would be before signing up for an account to post it: Interplanetary, which would, instead of water terrain, there would be 'Space' or 'Void' tiles. These would, if possible, count as a huge number of tiles when calculating distance for profit, but can only be traversed by expensive spacecraft, which would replace boats with spaceship yards replacing shipyards. 08:43:51 <abculatter_2> Additionally, land would generate in circles of (usually) one type of terrain, which would each have their own industries and requirements for town growth. (For example, a 'Terran' terrain would have agriculture, water, and oxygen, as well as many large cities and end-of-the-line industries that consume but don't produce, but have few processing and mineral-type industries.) 08:43:54 <Pikkaphone> nars is mostly dan's work anyway 08:44:04 <abculatter_2> As an example 08:44:05 <V453000> right 08:44:19 <Pikkaphone> also, uranium? 08:44:30 <abculatter_2> Yes uranium 08:44:34 <andythenorth> I suspect NARS 2 + Canset stuff might just show up as hosses 08:44:37 <abculatter_2> I support uranium 08:44:45 <andythenorth> but without all that realism bollocks 08:44:53 <Pikkaphone> yes but yeti uranium? 08:45:01 <andythenorth> radioactive snowman 08:45:03 <V453000> what is up with yeti uranium? :D 08:45:05 <andythenorth> abominable! 08:45:10 * andythenorth should go to the workings 08:45:14 <andythenorth> important things to do 08:45:20 <Pikkaphone> cargo classes, apparently 08:45:25 <andythenorth> always troubles 08:45:30 <Pikkaphone> good luck andy 08:45:32 <V453000> mhm 08:45:35 <andythenorth> I shall 08:45:41 <andythenorth> I shall luck good 08:45:45 <andythenorth> biab 08:45:46 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:46:41 <Pikkaphone> abculatter: I think similar things have been suggested, go and check the forums :) 08:47:16 <V453000> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p9povmbzp 08:47:29 <V453000> CC_HAZARDOUS 08:48:24 <V453000> there is some wtf with cargoes in general with yeti 08:48:34 <V453000> only nuts seems to work, even with the default labels 08:49:37 <abculatter_2> Also, is there a mod for making industry in general a bit more complex? 08:50:10 <V453000> yeti/firs/ecs/pikka basic industries 08:51:51 <abculatter_2> So many acronyms 08:52:52 <abculatter_2> I don't see YETI on the wiki mod list? 08:53:16 <Pikkaphone> few vehicle sets define a vehicle for that cargo label. 08:54:20 <Pikkaphone> it's probably best to add another... Then for vehicles, exclude hazardous from the vehicles you don't want carrying uranium. 08:54:28 <V453000> wiki mod list 08:54:29 <V453000> ? 08:55:19 <abculatter_2> http://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_List 08:55:41 <V453000> mhm perhaps bulk 08:55:50 <V453000> but no set has uranium sprites anyway 08:56:11 <Pikkaphone> they still have to be able to carry it 08:56:24 <Pikkaphone> that's the whole point of cargo classes 08:56:26 <V453000> true 08:56:52 <V453000> abculatter_2: that page is quite outdated/incomplete :) 08:56:57 <V453000> e.g. NUTS trains arent even there 08:57:18 <abculatter_2> Figured as much, I'm looking through the in-game list now 08:58:47 <V453000> that is considerably better :P 08:59:18 <Pikkaphone> someone suggests a newgrf review "magazine" every now and then 08:59:34 <Pikkaphone> but no one ever sticks with it 09:00:01 <V453000> bananas would have to get that, upkeeping any secondary site would be hell 09:00:38 <Pikkaphone> eh 09:00:54 <V453000> like a store inside of openttd 09:01:44 <Pikkaphone> a review blog could work 09:02:01 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:02:06 <Pikkaphone> it's not like newgrfs come out a hundred a day 09:02:42 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 09:02:58 <V453000> sure but inside of the game you could easily just click to download it etc 09:04:00 <Pikkaphone> ottd:// protocol 09:04:21 <Pikkaphone> install newgrf from your browser 09:04:34 <V453000> or that 09:04:44 <Pikkaphone> great feature 09:04:53 <Pikkaphone> doesn't it 09:05:13 <V453000> yarr 09:05:15 <V453000> go make it :D 09:06:23 <abculatter_2> Who is the author of YETI? 09:07:08 <V453000> it is written there? 09:08:13 <abculatter_2> It is a collaborative work? Or open-source? What does YETI even stand for? 09:08:42 <V453000> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/yeti 09:09:06 <abculatter_2> Yeah I'm looking at that site 09:09:28 <V453000> 1 author, many translator 09:09:39 <V453000> license is CC BY SA I believe 09:09:56 <abculatter_2> Ah, okay. 09:10:13 <Pikkaphone> what a ridiculous license 09:10:23 <abculatter_2> I take it 'manager' is the author? 09:10:36 <V453000> yes 09:10:42 <V453000> Pikkaphone: does its job doesnt it? :d 09:11:43 <Pikkaphone> does it? 09:11:58 <V453000> dunno had no lawsuits yet :D 09:12:39 <Pikkaphone> okay 09:13:05 <Pikkaphone> something to do this weekend, then 09:13:17 <V453000> why is CC BY SA that bad then? 09:13:38 <Pikkaphone> eh 09:13:46 <Pikkaphone> they're all silly 09:13:54 <V453000> what do you mean 09:14:01 <Pikkaphone> if you're not suing anyone 09:14:58 <V453000> well sure but the people who would like to eventually like to use my work cant just go and assume that I wont sue them :P 09:15:31 <Pikkaphone> also, the world seems to think any cc license means "put the license info at the bottom and you can use this photo for anything" 09:16:18 <V453000> doesnt really matter, I dont need to disallow anything 09:16:22 <Pikkaphone> if my recent uni experience is anything to go by 09:16:37 <peter1138> NC/ND is the stupid one. 09:17:29 <Pikkaphone> your face is the stupid one 09:19:18 <Pikkaphone> but yeah, people use ND photos in presentations and videos all the time 09:19:42 <Pikkaphone> silly people, silly license 09:20:32 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@2a00:6960:1:1:0:24:107:1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21:27 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@2a00:6960:1:1:0:24:107:1] has joined #openttd 09:25:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 09:26:00 <Pikkaphone> sorted? 09:27:39 <abculatter_2> Soooo, just finished reading http://blog.openttdcoop.org/2014/04/09/yeti-extended-towns-industries/ , I like the 'bring workers for more yield but you don't need them' bit. 09:28:52 <Pikkaphone> yeti is pro 09:29:15 <Pikkaphone> 32bpp and all 09:30:23 <peter1138> Until we next change how 32bpp works 09:30:46 <Pikkaphone> fiendish! 09:32:22 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 09:32:23 <Pikkaphone> also, replace newgrf with nogrf, in squirrel 09:35:03 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:17 <peter1138> don't forget the 3d models 09:37:59 <Pikkaphone> oops, I did 09:39:28 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 09:43:47 <abculatter_2> Uh, how do I download this here? http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/ 09:44:17 <abculatter_2> Nevermind 09:45:50 <abculatter_2> Didn't know you were supposed to check the little checkbox to download stuff, would be nice if that had a label or something... 09:46:42 <andythenorth> thereâs a little checkbox? :o 09:46:51 <andythenorth> might be browser specific 09:46:55 <andythenorth> no checkbox for me 09:47:24 <andythenorth> also can someone just 32bpp all my stuff, ta 09:48:50 <abculatter_2> Oh, uh, I meant in-game 09:49:00 <abculatter_2> I probably should have specified that 09:50:44 <abculatter_2> I really, REALLY wish there was a way to increase the interface size/zoom in the interface... Unless there is a way that I haven't found? 09:53:20 <Pikkaphone> andythenorth : just increase the colour depth in photogimp? 32bpp achieved. :D 09:54:22 <Pikkaphone> is dan still talking about drawing ez? 09:55:33 <Pikkaphone> Oh 09:56:05 <Pikkaphone> that tasmanian sheep 09:56:50 <Pikkaphone> didn't even break the record, in the end 09:57:23 <Pikkaphone> shameful display 10:00:19 <andythenorth> Pikkaphone: sometimes we smoke some crack and talk about drawing 2x 10:00:31 <andythenorth> I even considered redrawing FIRS @2x 10:00:52 <andythenorth> and as I said to a passing flying pig, the work would be worth it 10:01:10 <andythenorth> I have enough to do retina-ising all the internet images in my life :P 10:01:58 <Pikkaphone> wot larks 10:02:04 *** SylvieLorxu [~sylvie@dhcp-077-251-165-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:02:47 <peter1138> abculatter_2, there's a way, by editing the config file 10:03:01 <abculatter_2> Please continue 10:11:34 <abculatter_2> peter1138, which setting do I change in the config file? 10:16:47 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.186.92] has joined #openttd 10:42:28 <abculatter_2> Anyone? 10:46:46 *** Pikkaphone [~yaaic@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:48:45 <peter1138> fonts and font sizes 10:50:02 <abculatter_2> Set it to what? There's no default value for any of the font sizes in the config. 10:52:20 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-43-139.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:52:58 <abculatter_2> And both 'true' and '1' caused an error 10:53:50 <abculatter_2> peter1138? 10:54:35 <Pikka> set the font to the name of a font on your computer 10:54:48 <Pikka> set the size to the point size you want 10:55:01 <Pikka> 10-12 is "normal size" text, higher numbers are bigger 10:55:13 <abculatter_2> Huh 10:55:16 <abculatter_2> Thanks 10:55:36 <Pikka> you' 10:55:37 <Pikka> re 10:55:39 <Pikka> welcome 10:55:47 <abculatter_2> lol 10:58:11 <abculatter_2> What are the generic 'small_size' settings? 10:58:37 <abculatter_2> And what is Mono size? 10:59:23 <Pikka> by default, I believe, OpenTTD uses the character sprites out of the base set if no font is specified, so it's no size as such 11:00:21 <abculatter_2> "no size as such"? 11:00:49 <Pikka> it's using sprites, rather than a truetype font 11:01:10 <Pikka> https://wiki.openttd.org/Unicode 11:01:18 <Pikka> somewhat out of date I think, but it gives you the idea 11:01:20 <abculatter_2> Yes I already found that page 11:02:18 <abculatter_2> Oh, just realized I misread a part of it 11:02:27 <abculatter_2> Okay now things make sense 11:02:49 <abculatter_2> Still dont know what mono_size is 11:02:53 <abculatter_2> though 11:02:57 <Pikka> me neither 11:03:09 <abculatter_2> lol 11:04:19 <abculatter_2> Hmmm... Is there a place that I can reliably find font files on my computer, or should I just download one? 11:04:32 <Pikka> I use Calibri 11:04:47 <Pikka> if you want to see a list, probably the easiest way is to start up the word processor of your choice 11:04:54 <Pikka> a list of what you have, that is 11:05:40 <abculatter_2> Well yeah, but I meant where are those fonts actually stored? Since the wiki seems to say that you need the file path 11:05:46 <Pikka> you don't 11:05:55 <Pikka> that's out of date afaia 11:07:03 <abculatter_2> So there's a default font storage folder somewhere? 11:07:49 <Pikka> possibly. but if you just give it the font name it will ask your OS and it will find it, in the same way your word processor does. 11:08:04 <Pikka> I could be wrong, try it and see. 11:08:45 <abculatter_2> Huh 11:08:51 <abculatter_2> Yup, that worked 11:08:55 <abculatter_2> That's interesting 11:12:38 <abculatter_2> I can read things! 11:12:40 <abculatter_2> Yay! 11:15:49 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@2a00:6960:1:1:0:24:107:1] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 11:16:00 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@2a00:6960:1:1:0:24:107:1] has joined #openttd 11:21:45 <peter1138> mono_size is... the size of mono-spaced text. Yes, it's a bit odd. 11:22:00 <Pikka> where is it used though 11:22:01 <peter1138> it's used for readmes and licenses i think 11:22:08 <Pikka> oh, right 11:22:15 <peter1138> yeah, the bit nobody reads anyway 11:22:21 <Pikka> :D 11:24:36 <abculatter_2> lol 11:25:00 <abculatter_2> Trucks are better then trains for uneven terrain, right? 11:28:35 <V453000> no 11:29:57 <abculatter_2> So, then the only really option when you have uneven terrain is to just deal with your trains going ridiculously slow? 11:30:25 <peter1138> Well you could flatten it. 11:30:36 <peter1138> Or use the so-called "realistic" acceleration model; 11:32:29 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest736 11:32:30 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 11:33:04 <V453000> it should be called normal or not-retarded or something 11:33:09 <V453000> realistic implies something stupid 11:35:07 <andythenorth> just use bigger trains 11:35:09 <andythenorth> more power 11:35:18 <andythenorth> how good is our physics? 11:35:42 <andythenorth> do DPUs make any difference to train handling? 11:36:23 *** Guest736 [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:37:23 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing in this game should be called "realistic" 11:39:51 *** Godde [~quassel@72.79-160-59.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 11:40:09 <abculatter_2> Does horsepower increase uphill speed in the non-realistic model? 11:41:49 <andythenorth> probably 11:42:48 <planetmaker> power doesn't increase max speed. But it increases the force which can be exerted 11:43:03 <abculatter_2> Is there a way to extend a train station without just adding another station to one end? 11:43:03 <planetmaker> with sufficient power the max speed won't be changed when going uphill. 11:43:05 <abculatter_2> And I know 11:43:15 * andythenorth diverted by http://www.alkrug.vcn.com/rrfacts/hp_te.htm 11:44:05 <b_jonas> abculatter_2: you can just demolish the station and build a new one in its place 11:44:36 <Pikka> or build a new longer station over the top 11:46:12 <abculatter_2> Ugh, it costs the full station cost? 11:46:33 <abculatter_2> Why doesn't it just automatically merge the two stations into one? 11:46:36 <abculatter_2> >-> 11:46:47 <Pikka> it does 11:46:53 <Pikka> if you "just add another station to one end" 11:47:12 <Pikka> if you overbuild, you're rebuilding the tiles so you get to pay for them again 11:47:53 *** Godde [~quassel@72.79-160-59.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:47:55 <abculatter_2> But there will still be two little houses 11:48:07 <abculatter_2> Aesthetics 11:48:11 <Pikka> yes 11:48:17 <abculatter_2> They are important. 11:48:19 <Pikka> well, you get to pay for your aesthetics 11:48:31 <Pikka> if you want a big roof over two tracks, you don't get to pay for just half of it 11:48:36 <abculatter_2> Hissssssssss 11:50:58 <andythenorth> itâs only money 11:51:01 <andythenorth> thereâs loads of it 11:51:14 * andythenorth is perplexed by people worrying about costs 11:51:24 <andythenorth> itâs a route-building game, not an economic game :D 11:51:46 * andythenorth should start a blag 11:52:58 <abculatter_2> More money = more trains 11:53:46 *** Godde [~quassel@72.79-160-59.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 11:54:05 <andythenorth> more trains = more money 11:54:11 <andythenorth> I see where youâre going with that 11:54:17 <andythenorth> a virtuous circle 11:54:45 <abculatter_2> Yes exactly 11:54:55 <abculatter_2> And more money means more points 11:55:02 <abculatter_2> More points means winning 11:55:13 <abculatter_2> Even if you're the referee 11:57:13 <peter1138> winning? what's that? 11:57:33 <abculatter_2> I dunno, but I heard it's supposed to be good or something? 11:57:43 <abculatter_2> Maybe? 11:57:45 <abculatter_2> Shrug 12:01:09 <andythenorth> GS is winning 12:01:20 <andythenorth> I won at vanilla TTD once 12:01:21 <andythenorth> I think 12:01:26 <andythenorth> it involves some shenanigans 12:01:32 <andythenorth> aggressively replacing vehicles 12:01:38 <andythenorth> and closing low-profit routes 12:01:39 <Pikka> http://pikkarail.com/openttd/river-city/ 12:01:48 <Pikka> with the controversial opinion "buildings are buildings" 12:02:08 <andythenorth> it is rare 12:02:25 <andythenorth> I have a stack of Bombay photos intended for âtropic building renewal' 12:02:34 <andythenorth> a project I fear will be unstarted before my death 12:02:41 <b_jonas> nice 12:03:21 <Pikka> that lovely brown-green brisbane river water, too 12:03:22 <__ln__> after your death you'll have much more time as you're not expected to e.g. go to work 12:04:10 <andythenorth> I shall look forward to that 12:04:31 <peter1138> don't be too sure on that 12:05:05 <andythenorth> meetings meetings meetings probably 12:06:28 <abculatter_2> Is there a way to make a station begin accumulating materials before a train arrives? 12:06:42 <Pikka> yes 12:06:56 <Pikka> turn off that feature in the advanced settings, whatever it's called 12:07:34 <andythenorth> only deliver cargo when a train is waiting 12:07:37 <andythenorth> or whatever 12:07:47 <Pikka> so traincentric 12:07:53 <andythenorth> itâs broken with autorefittings anyway 12:08:04 <andythenorth> or cdist 12:08:05 <andythenorth> or both 12:08:12 <Pikka> you have to kickstart the routes sometimes 12:08:15 <andythenorth> autorefittings is or was quite broken 12:09:03 <andythenorth> I proved it with a savegame and everything 12:09:05 <andythenorth> not even FUD 12:10:34 <abculatter_2> Why isn't there just a button in the station GUI for turning on/off what the station accepts from nearby industries? 12:10:51 <Pikka> because you didn't code such a feature yet 12:11:36 <Pikka> have you just discovered why the "station doesn't begin accumulating materials" feature exists? ;) 12:12:11 <Pikka> where is that setting anyway, I can't find it D: 12:13:51 <abculatter_2> Well, it's just a logical thing to have, doesn't really take much playing before you realize that sometimes you don't want passengers accumulating in your oil well station. Plus, whole reason I'm playing OTTD is because I used to play Locomotion, and if I remember correctly that had a feature similar to what's in OTTD 12:15:19 <abculatter_2> Is there a way to view what vehicles are available without making a depot? 12:15:23 <andythenorth> yes 12:15:30 <andythenorth> on the menu for vehicle type 12:15:38 <andythenorth> list available vehicles or such 12:15:51 <andythenorth> useful 12:16:07 <Pikka> "Available x" 12:16:12 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 12:16:18 <b_jonas> yes, that's useful for airplanes 12:16:30 <b_jonas> in the early game when you airports are relatively expensive 12:16:36 <b_jonas> no wait 12:16:49 <b_jonas> I mean in the midgame when small airports are no longer available but you'd just want to start doing airplanes 12:21:33 <Pikka> huh 12:22:24 <Pikka> the setting name for the only-when-first-train-arrives is selectgoods, but it doesn't appear to be in the settings menu? is it that much of a no-brainer that everyone wants it turned on? :P 12:22:49 <Pikka> or am I just blind and can't find it 12:22:50 <Pikka> ? 12:28:08 <abculatter_2> Ugghhhh, the next industry I wanna make a train line to is completely surrounded by farms... Farmlands is expensive. 12:38:46 <abculatter_2> Is there a way to distribute cargo evenly between two stations? 12:40:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: most likely you're blind, or unable to put in correct search terms, or you didn't select the right settings filter 12:43:46 <Pikka> where is it, then? :o 12:44:58 <b_jonas> Pikka: http://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_Settings/Stations#Deliver_cargo_to_a_station_only_when_there_is_a_demand 12:48:54 *** urdh [urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:27 <b_jonas> can newgrf statoins have platforms with diagonal rails in them? 12:52:05 <Pikka> hmm, you know what 12:52:12 <peter1138> http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/diagstations3.png 12:52:16 <Pikka> I don't have the "stations" category of settings :D 12:52:16 <peter1138> I had a patch for that 12:52:22 <Pikka> how did this happen 12:52:36 <peter1138> Your settings settings setting is set incorrectly. 12:53:37 <Pikka> I suppose I should update a nightly or sommat 12:53:52 <b_jonas> Pikka: I don't know then 12:54:10 <b_jonas> peter1138: looks nice, where is that from? 12:54:35 <b_jonas> wow, I want to build those 12:57:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:18:09 <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> I had a patch for that <-- but that actually didn't work with newgrfs, so is not an answer to the question :p 13:18:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: the filters are set at the top of the window 13:19:02 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 13:19:58 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.74.191] has quit [] 13:21:32 <Pikka> Eddi / anyone who cares: http://i.imgur.com/4D6xNEH.png 13:21:36 * Pikka shrugs 13:22:38 <V453000> tis in Limitations now Pikka 13:22:39 <V453000> or so 13:22:50 <V453000> ie, Stations submenu no longer uxistz 13:22:53 <Pikka> but it's not there 13:22:58 <Pikka> in the "station" filtered 13:23:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: and if you filter for "cargo"? 13:25:38 <Pikka> http://i.imgur.com/lB31jJq.png 13:25:51 <Pikka> and the whole "limitations" tree 13:26:26 <Pikka> someone ate the setting 13:27:16 <Pikka> perhaps it's just this nightly though and it came back, I'll update before complaining too loudly 13:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> in any case, you should be able to flip the setting from the console 13:28:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 13:28:45 <Pikka> I can, and don't really want to 13:29:00 <Pikka> abculatter_2 was asking about it 13:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe things got weird in one of the "clean out some settings" runs... 13:29:28 <Pikka> maybe 13:32:04 <abculatter_2> I really hate how the station ratings make long-distance train transport lines crap... 13:32:35 <andythenorth> whatâs max ship speed? 13:34:12 <Pikka> three 13:34:13 <V453000> abculatter_2: wtf? 13:34:33 <V453000> everybody keeps ranting how distance is everything XD 13:34:39 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:34:49 <abculatter_2> Well, unless I'm doing something terribly wrong. 13:34:53 <V453000> apparently 13:34:57 <V453000> you do use signals, right? 13:35:03 <Pikka> he's complaining that his train takes a long time and his station ratings drop while it's travelling 13:35:16 <abculatter_2> No, it's not just when it's traveling 13:35:18 <V453000> to use multiple trains on the track so that your rating never drops since train is always loading 13:35:20 <Pikka> because if your station rating isn't 100% you're doing something wrong 13:35:44 <V453000> 93% ;) 13:36:09 <Pikka> andy; it's 80-odd mph? 13:36:40 <Pikka> 255 / 3.2? 13:36:45 <abculatter_2> Sigh... So basically you're forced to make every train line have at least two trains in it? 13:36:59 <Pikka> no 13:37:18 <Pikka> you could also not care about the station rating. as long as the train gets a load and makes money. 13:37:39 <V453000> ^ 13:38:29 <V453000> you are not forced to do anything but if you want your industries to have good % transported and hence increase production (original industries work that way), you need to have a train always loading, yes 13:38:46 *** abculatter_2 [~abculatte@135.sub-166-167-81.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:39:05 <Pikka> you broke him 13:43:32 *** abculatter_2 [~abculatte@135.sub-166-167-81.myvzw.com] has joined #openttd 13:43:55 <abculatter_2> Blubluh technology 13:44:35 <abculatter_2> Anyway, the local station rating, from what I can tell, seems to be the percentage of stuff produced local industries will give you to be transported 13:45:04 <abculatter_2> Am I mistaken in this? 13:45:05 <Pinkbeast> Station rating looks a bit odd sometimes (especially for pax, IIRC) 13:45:15 <Pikka> more or less. but if your one slow train goes a long way, doesn't it get a decent load anyway? 13:46:09 <abculatter_2> Not really. 13:48:21 <abculatter_2> Only getting 20-40% of an industry's output really isn't very much, especially since I tried to do this as my first thing. Not only was the train slow, but also usually only came back half full when it wasn't on 'wait for full load' 13:48:25 <Pinkbeast> You may as well leave it loading until it's full; then it will always run full and rating will be less bad. 13:49:02 <abculatter_2> That didn't really help much. It did help, though. 13:50:23 <Pinkbeast> Two short trains? They can run with only one additional platform and a little trackwork at the loading station. 13:52:55 <abculatter_2> Yeah, that seems like the only option there really is... I was hoping to be able to avoid signals and be lazy, oh well. 13:53:01 <andythenorth> Pikka: if a ship is trying to do 91mph, think it might overflow in a signed byte? o_O 13:53:11 <andythenorth> 79mph might be the limit iirc 13:53:14 <Pikka> yes 13:53:21 <andythenorth> thatâs todayâs bug then :) 13:53:24 <Pikka> didn't I say that in the forum just now? ;) 13:53:31 * andythenorth is behind the times 13:53:51 <andythenorth> how can I read the forum when I am reading slideshares about SAAS pricing? :( 13:54:08 <keoz> Is there someone here who could remove a just uploaded version of a GS on Bananas ? Using musa, I included /lang, thinking that it would eventually take the included *.txt file (or complaining, which it didn't) which resulted in an uncomplete upload :/ 13:54:14 <Pikka> you have two eyes, don't you? 13:54:23 <andythenorth> I do yes 13:54:29 <andythenorth> one is blurry though 13:54:39 <Pikka> use that one for SAAS pricing 13:55:10 <andythenorth> good point 13:55:27 <Pikka> keoz: can you just reupload and replace it? might be faster than waiting for a moderator response :) 13:55:42 <abculatter_2> Heh, I got a builder's yard that has 'bridge' at the end of the local town's name, so it looks like it's called 'Bridge Builder's Yard'. I should go ask if they have a bridge to sell me. 13:56:19 <Pinkbeast> abculatter_2: The signals for "the entire line is one block except for the loading station" are not too bad. :-) 13:56:36 <andythenorth> can haz moar ships plz 13:56:39 <andythenorth> I dunno 13:56:59 <keoz> Pikka: at least with musa, I can't replace it, it complains about the file being already uploaded 13:57:16 <Pikka> do you need to increment the version number? 13:57:17 <keoz> I'll try to update from within bananas 13:57:46 <keoz> I'd like avoid to increment version number just for a missing file :) 13:59:34 <Pikka> I think TrueBrain is the God of Bananas, but he doesn't appear to be here... 14:00:03 <Pikka> planetmaker may or may not be able to help 14:01:08 <keoz> I hope. I'll see when he's here. 14:02:01 <andythenorth> âYour ship set is too big and has too many useless ships, please add some more" 14:02:02 <andythenorth> thanks 14:04:36 <abculatter_2> Hmmm... Am I supposed to not see any servers when I open the multiplayer window? 14:04:42 <abculatter_2> In the main menu? 14:04:53 <Pikka> did you change from LAN to Internet? 14:04:58 <keoz> "Search on the internet" 14:05:11 <keoz> or something like that 14:05:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the world is full of paradices 14:05:30 <abculatter_2> I don't see that button, and "Find Server" did nothing 14:05:43 <Pikka> paradoxes too, Eddi 14:06:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: that was deliberate :p 14:06:26 <abculatter_2> Are you supposed to add servers yourself to this list? 14:06:37 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 14:06:40 <Pikka> it should search. it might be your firewall or something. 14:06:44 <Pikka> ask the wiki :D 14:07:12 <Pikka> "find server" is the button 14:07:48 <keoz> abculatter_2: no, you don't need to add anything. 14:08:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 14:08:28 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-102-228.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 14:09:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 14:09:28 *** LSky` [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 14:13:48 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:29:22 <peter1138> hmm, it's changed "Advertised" Yes/No 14:29:29 <peter1138> need it on yes 14:32:03 <abculatter_2> Still nothin for me 14:32:47 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:33:08 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:33:09 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-43-139.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:34:46 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 14:34:52 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [] 14:35:58 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:36:36 <keoz> Ok. I could solve the problem by giving a subversion to bananas and making a fake change in the code. 14:40:06 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-61-235.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 14:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause> keoz: whatever is on bananas is there forever, whatever new you put there must have a higher version (and different checksum) 14:48:31 *** Smedles_ [~quassel@58.160.136.199] has joined #openttd 14:48:31 *** Smedles [~quassel@58.160.136.199] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:52:50 *** Pokka [~Octomom@d114-78-8-77.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 14:52:52 <keoz> Eddi|zuHause: I know and understand this rule, but here it was not intended as a new version, more as fixing a wrong upload. 14:53:14 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-61-235.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:53:14 <keoz> Anyway, it's been solved. 14:53:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that is essentially the same thing. 14:54:05 <Eddi|zuHause> what if someone downloaded it before fixing your upload? they'll have a "broken" version forever and cannot fix it by downloading an update 14:54:40 <keoz> Yes, that's right ... 14:55:10 <keoz> As a matter of fact, 10 people at least downloaded the broken version before I fix that :p 15:02:14 *** Pokka [~Octomom@d114-78-8-77.rdl800.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:02:19 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:02:22 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 15:04:21 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-102-228.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:11:25 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 15:11:28 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 15:15:12 <abculatter_2> +500,000 euros from my third year 15:15:16 <abculatter_2> Airplanes OP 15:19:26 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 15:19:51 <Eddi|zuHause> until you enable cargodist and want to favour capacity over raw income... 15:24:07 <peter1138> or enable infrastructure costs 15:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause> keoz: usual package managers handle this by adding stuff to the version. so instead of a package "0.4.0" you have actually a package "0.4.0-1", and if only the packaging changes you get "0.4.0-2" 15:26:38 *** SylvieLorxu [~sylvie@dhcp-077-251-165-191.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:29:18 <abculatter_2> Just wondering, anyone here watch Game of Thrones? 15:29:23 *** Godde [~quassel@72.79-160-59.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 15:29:25 *** Godde [~quassel@72.79-160-59.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 15:29:54 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:33:10 <Alberth> why would you do that when you can look at pretty trains driving on tracks you laid yourself? 15:34:30 <keoz> Thinking about some Westeros style NewGRF ? 15:34:34 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.74.191] has joined #openttd 15:36:24 <keoz> Eddi|zuHause: for me I did 3 -> 3.1 (the point here being also that in the base code, GS only accept major version numbers, such as 1, 2, 3 ... 15:36:44 <keoz> I don't know if BaNaNas would have token 3-1 :) 15:37:20 <abculatter_2> Actually, I just downloaded a map based off the Game of Thrones speculative world map, for shits and giggles, since I've never seen it before. 15:37:50 <abculatter_2> I wanted to know if oil rigs fit into its setting. I would think they wouldn't. 15:39:21 *** urdh [urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 15:43:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 15:45:02 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01c291.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 15:45:06 *** SylvieLorxu [~sylvie@dhcp-077-251-165-191.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:46:15 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 15:46:33 <Alberth> quak 15:49:46 <andythenorth> quak quak 15:51:03 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:51:52 <frosch123> hai 15:52:05 <Alberth> hi hi 15:55:45 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:04:27 <andythenorth> hmm 16:04:31 <andythenorth> small sets are a BAD FEATURE 16:04:34 <andythenorth> people hate them 16:06:14 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 16:07:10 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 16:07:59 *** SylvieLorxu [~sylvie@dhcp-077-251-165-191.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:09:44 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 16:09:53 <keoz> That's normal. Small sets are anti-eyecandy. 16:14:43 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:25:33 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 16:28:37 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 16:33:54 *** abculatter_2 [~abculatte@135.sub-166-167-81.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:43:04 <Alberth> they are harder to design 16:45:00 <keoz> Also, the point isn't necessary in choosing between small or big, but finding a coherent compromise. 16:45:02 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:19 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 16:57:08 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:58:25 *** Pensacola [~quassel@h220216.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> my coherent compromise definitely tends towards the "big" side 17:08:38 <Alberth> yeti et al :) 17:12:09 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 17:17:28 *** InvokeStatic [~Invoke@97-83-98-15.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #openttd 17:22:42 *** Midnightmyth_ [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 17:30:01 *** Midnightmyth [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:43:48 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387AF11.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:44:43 *** shirish [~quassel@59.97.97.96] has joined #openttd 18:01:37 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:21:06 *** Midnightmyth_ [~quassel@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:23:38 *** JGR_ [~JGR@host81-129-178-138.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:28:53 <Alberth> running costs higher than the engine value :p 18:30:08 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:32:30 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:35:15 <andythenorth> small sets arenât harder to design 18:35:19 <andythenorth> theyâre way easier 18:36:01 <andythenorth> also compromise is an inevitable fact of most designs, but not the place you want to start from or end up :P 18:36:58 <Alberth> do running costs change? 18:39:00 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 18:39:21 <frosch123> Alberth: cars can be more valuable when completely fueled 18:39:58 <Alberth> apparently :) 18:40:19 <Alberth> apparently moving all that fuel is very costly 18:41:28 <andythenorth> Alberth: was the costs question specific to something? o_O 18:41:42 <Alberth> andythenorth: yes 18:41:57 <Alberth> my running costs are higher than advertised 18:43:38 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/running_cost.png 18:45:48 <planetmaker> hi ho 18:45:54 <Alberth> ho hi 18:46:00 <planetmaker> Alberth: running costs for wagons? (dunno if that works) 18:46:03 <Alberth> how was the talk? 18:46:10 <planetmaker> was quite ok, I think 18:46:26 <planetmaker> felt instantaneous better afterwards 18:46:31 <Alberth> :) 18:47:02 <Alberth> not sure it would be recommended as doctor advice :) 18:47:13 <planetmaker> :P probably not 18:48:03 <planetmaker> and the French cuisine in a restaurant a collegue and myself went afterwards was a great reward, too 18:48:30 <Alberth> you were just hungry afterwards :D :) 18:48:53 <planetmaker> it was dinner time... I usually get hungry by around 18h :) 18:49:42 <planetmaker> they have a strange schedule here... 1h session in the morning, lunch, and then 2.5 hour session 18:51:10 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:51:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:51:28 <andythenorth> Alberth: wagon costs? 18:51:36 *** JGR [~JGR@host109-148-219-147.range109-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:51:37 <andythenorth> IH sets high costs 18:51:49 <andythenorth> I donât do any variable cost magic, way too much effort 18:52:07 <planetmaker> :) 18:52:13 <planetmaker> and mostly pointless anyway 18:52:51 <Alberth> looks that way 8*350 18:54:51 <andythenorth> wagon costs are untested :) 18:55:29 <andythenorth> but the numbers are the correct costs 18:55:37 <andythenorth> if you canât make money, let me know, Iâll reduce them 18:55:44 <andythenorth> and blame frosch123 :D 18:56:56 <Alberth> nah, seems fine, 160K income, 70K payments 18:57:16 <Alberth> I should just stop building :) 18:58:35 <Alberth> hmm +400, not very much :) 18:58:56 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host131-237-dynamic.24-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:59:00 <Alberth> hi Wolf01 18:59:13 <Wolf01> hi hi 19:01:11 <andythenorth> Alberth: let me know if the costs are too low also :P 19:01:34 <andythenorth> the thinking is, trains are quite cheap to build, but you need a lot to make serious money 19:01:39 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:45 <andythenorth> so you can build out a big network quite fast 19:01:51 <andythenorth> otherwise boring 19:02:01 <andythenorth> dunno if theyâre cheap enough though 19:03:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19B98.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:05:56 <frosch123> yay, iron horse? 19:06:32 <Alberth> yes :) 19:13:10 *** Pereba [~UserNick@186.215.6.51] has joined #openttd 19:18:47 <Alberth> it's fun if the value of an engine is lower than the yearly running cost :p 19:20:14 <andythenorth> probably realistic! 19:24:39 <Alberth> ugh, change engine and the train is .01 longer 19:24:46 <Alberth> 0.1 19:25:53 <andythenorth> screenshot? 19:26:05 <andythenorth> I know it happens with some combinations 19:26:53 <Alberth> need more money :p 19:29:51 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/length.png 19:30:54 <Alberth> 0-8-0 is 40 years later, more powerful, but slower 19:31:34 <andythenorth> itâs there because Dan likes it :) 19:31:49 <andythenorth> itâs marginally useful if you have dedicated coal lines 19:31:52 <andythenorth> otherwiseâŠnot 19:32:08 <Alberth> wood hauling? :) 19:32:15 <andythenorth> yeah that too 19:32:31 <andythenorth> I would argue to take it out, but I think a set needs one or two near-pointless things 19:32:44 <andythenorth> adds character 19:32:47 <planetmaker> 0-8-0 - is that the big boy? 19:32:59 <andythenorth> nah 19:34:25 <andythenorth> Alberth: we considered doing everything in 0.5 or 1.0 lengths 19:34:29 <andythenorth> but itâs a bit limiting 19:35:14 <Alberth> I can imagine, it's more along V's street 19:35:43 <Alberth> if you add a car, you get 5.0 and 5.1, which is unfortunate 19:36:07 <andythenorth> sad :( 19:36:16 <andythenorth> donât have a fix :) 19:38:49 <Alberth> 0-8-0 is faster, the extra power and TE makes the difference 19:39:40 <Alberth> 0-6-0 with coal may theoretically do 88km/h, but it doesn't go faster than 72, the peed of the 0-8-0 19:40:07 <Alberth> should try the 0-8-0 with the same coal :) 19:41:25 <andythenorth> you have 4x weight? 19:42:24 <Alberth> yes 19:44:28 <andythenorth> so that engine does have a use :) 19:44:31 <andythenorth> good to know 19:45:39 <Alberth> you may want to make the top speed a little higher, from 88km/h to 72km/h in 40 years development is a bit weird :) 19:46:04 <andythenorth> "realismâ 19:46:27 * Alberth hits andythenorth realistically 19:48:33 * andythenorth fixes hovercraft 19:51:25 <frosch123> night 19:51:28 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d01c291.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 19:51:33 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> Alberth: cars can be more valuable when completely fueled <-- my sister once drove a car on the last drop that she wasn't allowed to fill up because it was about to be sold 19:52:04 <Alberth> :) 19:53:53 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:57:38 <planetmaker> did those previous tags build w/o problem, andythenorth? 19:58:41 <andythenorth> looks like it 19:58:47 <andythenorth> did rc-4 and rc-5 fail? 19:58:51 <andythenorth> I was not in the devzone channel 19:58:51 <planetmaker> hm, obviously. Dunno why this fails. Yep 19:58:59 <planetmaker> it was. But you're not there 19:59:02 <andythenorth> fails on python 2 / 3 path stuff probably 19:59:12 <andythenorth> will Jenkins tell me? 19:59:33 <planetmaker> the console log says that it failed to find revision 'squid' 19:59:54 <Alberth> :) 20:00:21 <andythenorth> failing on - chars? 20:01:02 <planetmaker> well. I'm not aware of having changed anything since -rc3. I wasn't at home much, since 20:01:40 <andythenorth> the significant change is switch to nml tip 20:01:47 <andythenorth> so I expected that to be troublesome 20:01:51 <andythenorth> but this looks something else 20:06:01 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 20:06:31 *** Smedles_ [~quassel@58.160.136.199] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:40 *** Smedles [~quassel@58.160.136.199] has joined #openttd 20:10:22 <andythenorth> bloody river boots 20:10:27 <andythenorth> everyone is obsessed with them 20:10:46 <Alberth> nah, /me isn't 20:11:31 <Alberth> I turned rivers off some time ago, too annoying for tracks 20:11:33 <andythenorth> theyâre totally pointless 20:11:53 <andythenorth> I only leave them on because I drew them, and it was a *lot* of fiddly drawing 20:11:58 <Alberth> it's cheap transport in competitive games perhaps 20:12:03 <andythenorth> Worst Feature Ever 20:12:55 <Alberth> in some sense, perhaps the current engines are too strong? 20:13:21 <andythenorth> IH? 20:13:27 <Alberth> ie am I supposed to be able to haul 4.8 train filled with wood and 1 engine? 20:13:31 <andythenorth> yes 20:13:38 <andythenorth> I play with freight multiplier 1x 20:13:39 <andythenorth> :P 20:13:43 <Alberth> at 60km/h at weight 4x ? 20:13:50 <andythenorth> probably yes 20:13:58 <andythenorth> the brit roster is rather fast and powerful 20:14:06 <andythenorth> too fast :P 20:14:09 * andythenorth is impatient 20:14:16 <Alberth> :D 20:14:19 <andythenorth> also I only play cargo goal gamescripts 20:14:28 <andythenorth> that might be influencing my set design rather a lot 20:14:48 <Alberth> I always like to have 2 engines in my trains, it looks much nicer, imho 20:14:58 <andythenorth> use two small tank engines 20:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause> rivers are cool, but for early game canals are way too expensive, even as short additions to rivers. and lack of river docks is annoying 20:15:44 <Alberth> nuts has these double headed steam engines running at 150km/h :) 20:17:33 <Alberth> perhaps I should play with bigger freight multipliers :p 20:18:33 <andythenorth> https://chasewaterstuff.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/untitled-3.jpg?w=1496 20:18:37 <andythenorth> itâs even realisms! 20:22:15 <Alberth> :) 20:23:45 <planetmaker> the 40+ wagon ore trains are pulled by two engines here, too 20:26:20 <andythenorth> who are these people struggling to make money with ships? 20:26:22 <andythenorth> ships print money 20:26:27 <andythenorth> no infrastructure cost 20:26:29 <andythenorth> no queues 20:26:35 <andythenorth> no contention 20:29:15 <Alberth> not enough distance perhaps, and they think they are too slow? 20:29:37 <Alberth> perhaps not enough stuff to transport 20:31:09 <andythenorth> NO SKILLS! 20:34:28 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:34:53 <Alberth> can't you let them play with fish instead? 20:42:42 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 20:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause> two steam engines was common even on passenger trains, when they had steeper inclines to travel. 20:44:39 <andythenorth> Alberth: FISH is now forbidden 20:44:45 <andythenorth> I wish to remove it from all places 20:44:50 <Alberth> :O 20:44:51 <andythenorth> including banaanans 20:44:56 <andythenorth> and all of your computers 20:45:01 <planetmaker> :D 20:45:39 <andythenorth> FISH has sunk 20:45:51 <Eddi|zuHause> you can tell apple to remove it from all iDevices 20:46:08 <Eddi|zuHause> remote deletion! 20:46:28 <Alberth> gn 20:48:09 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:49:29 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: good idea 20:57:12 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Oh, I must lobby you about river boats here too! 20:57:20 <andythenorth> you can try 20:57:35 <andythenorth> river boats are rubbish 20:57:38 <andythenorth> rivers are rubbish 20:57:39 <andythenorth> also 20:57:47 <andythenorth> rivers look bad 20:57:57 <FLHerne> Most annoying thing about them is the pathfinder being broken on rivers 20:58:00 <andythenorth> locks are 3 tiles when they should be 2 20:58:04 <andythenorth> pathfinder is very broken 20:58:33 <andythenorth> (allow 90â turns can help the pathfinder on rivers a bit - it at least stops getting stuck so often) 20:58:44 <andythenorth> building docks on rivers is an abomination 20:58:50 <andythenorth> rivers are never 2 tiles wide 20:58:57 <andythenorth> rivers look bad 20:59:08 <andythenorth> did I cover everything? 20:59:15 <FLHerne> They look alright in valleys, but that needs a custom heightmap 20:59:28 <andythenorth> might as well build a channel at sea level 20:59:33 <FLHerne> Luckily, many newer heightmaps feature river valleys :-) 20:59:53 <andythenorth> at least then you can bridge them for rails / roads 20:59:56 <andythenorth> I just bulldoze them 21:00:01 <FLHerne> Flat docks are something that's needed, certainly. Is there not a patch for that? There's a patch for everything 21:00:04 <andythenorth> rivers should be deleted 21:00:24 <andythenorth> also river boats are pointless 21:00:28 <andythenorth> just use boats 21:00:52 <FLHerne> FISH didn't have sufficient variety in small boats before 21:01:01 * FLHerne uses one heck of a lot of them 21:01:16 <andythenorth> you got bored of seeing the same one> 21:01:16 <andythenorth> ? 21:01:50 <FLHerne> Yep. And it would be even worse if the ones on the rivers were the same too 21:02:09 <andythenorth> rivers are silly 21:02:11 <FLHerne> The new variety of larger freighters is nice though :-) 21:02:14 <andythenorth> you found me a bug also 21:02:26 <andythenorth> Marstein Freighter should be river-capable 21:02:28 <andythenorth> thanks 21:02:32 <FLHerne> Um? 21:02:50 <FLHerne> Oh, is that the renamed Tuskawhatsit? 21:02:58 <andythenorth> probly 21:03:00 <andythenorth> so many names 21:03:15 <andythenorth> btw, itâs a different grfid to FISH :P 21:03:19 <andythenorth> so you can use both 21:03:22 <andythenorth> intentionally 21:03:53 <FLHerne> Nifty, might end up doing that 21:04:16 <andythenorth> hmm 21:04:30 <andythenorth> should the Altamira be river capable? 360t? Maybe 21:05:08 <andythenorth> also maybe not 21:05:30 <andythenorth> FLHerne: Iâll give you a cookie, hangon 21:06:33 <FLHerne> No, everything bigger than a Tuskawhatsit looks silly on a river IME 21:07:13 <FLHerne> That does go for the big barges, o/c 21:07:40 <andythenorth> they spread beyond the banks horribly on river / canal 21:07:42 <FLHerne> But they're good on small lakes, because the proper freighters look silly there 21:07:53 <andythenorth> here 21:07:54 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/6443/fish.grf 21:07:57 <FLHerne> And short straight canals between them 21:08:05 <andythenorth> ^^ that has the second roster in 21:08:13 <andythenorth> if you want to use both rosters...tough 21:08:23 <andythenorth> unless you decompile and change grfid⊠21:08:48 * FLHerne looks 21:08:58 <andythenorth> itâs a param... 21:09:30 <NGC3982> Parmesan? 21:09:51 <FLHerne> Ooh hey, Danube barges :-) 21:10:06 <FLHerne> That ferry looks a bit odd 21:10:18 <FLHerne> Maybe the real ones look odd too :P 21:10:26 <andythenorth> there is no real one :P 21:10:39 <andythenorth> itâs made out of the ferry from fish, cut in half 21:10:45 <andythenorth> stuck the rear halves together 21:11:00 <andythenorth> if I look hard enough on shipspotting.com Iâll find a real one though 21:11:06 <FLHerne> That might explain the oddlookingness 21:11:14 <andythenorth> everything seems to have a prototype 21:11:38 <FLHerne> Loading ramps or something might look good 21:11:44 <andythenorth> anyway, thatâs todayâs cookie 21:11:48 <andythenorth> you are the exclusive recipient 21:12:13 <FLHerne> Well, thanks :-) 21:12:13 <andythenorth> there will be up to 10 rosters maybe in the end 21:12:17 <andythenorth> unless we get bored 21:12:20 <andythenorth> choose one 21:12:34 * andythenorth is bored of trying to make one perfect roster, there is no perfect here 21:12:53 <FLHerne> Or find the relevant switches, and hack them to get everything at once :P 21:13:23 <andythenorth> that too 21:13:39 <andythenorth> or make a grf that enables them (possible I think) 21:14:00 <andythenorth> the IDs are published in the docs 21:14:22 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/fish/push/LATEST/docs/html/code_reference.html 21:14:39 <andythenorth> turning them on / off is probably only a climate switch maybe 21:14:40 <andythenorth> dunno 21:15:20 <andythenorth> yeah, just climate 21:15:28 <FLHerne> The problem with ships is that all ships of one type look identical 21:15:40 <andythenorth> yes 21:15:40 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387AF11.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/nkczDT] 21:15:46 <FLHerne> I can make different-looking trains just by mixing and matching vehicles 21:15:54 <andythenorth> ships is problem, no? 21:16:01 <FLHerne> And trams/buses are always swarming about behind buildings 21:16:04 <andythenorth> randomising them is a crapload of work, and doesnât look that good 21:16:18 <andythenorth> I could randomise the color to 2cc / 1cc trivially, but thatâs dumb 21:16:30 <andythenorth> they donât even have cargo :P 21:16:34 <andythenorth> also much work 21:16:48 * FLHerne would use randomly recoloured ships, straight off :D 21:16:57 <FLHerne> Might be confusing in MP though 21:17:00 <andythenorth> yes 21:17:29 <andythenorth> Iâd consider it though, recolouring is easy at compile time with pixa 21:17:40 <andythenorth> iron horse already does it for some vehicles 21:18:04 <andythenorth> and all the code is there for random sprites 21:18:39 <andythenorth> also bedtime is 21:18:45 <andythenorth> bye 21:18:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:25:13 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.186.92] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:32:13 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.137.74.191] has quit [] 21:32:50 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19B98.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:13 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:1dd9:45fd:8df4:6cb] has quit [Quit: .] 21:44:58 *** AndroUser [~androirc@89.204.153.236] has joined #openttd 21:45:42 <AndroUser> Hello I want do set up a build environment what do I need on a Windows machine? 21:47:50 <glx> http://wiki.openttd.org/Compiling_on_Windows_using_Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B_2012 21:47:54 <planetmaker> AndroUser: check the wiki ^ 21:47:54 <glx> should work 21:47:56 <Wolf01> 'nighty night 21:48:03 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:50:19 <AndroUser> Ok is there any more documentation like java doc? 21:51:49 *** LSky` [~LSky@5ED4B2EA.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:55:52 <glx> it's not java 21:57:20 <AndroUser> That's why I wrote "like" 21:57:48 <glx> but there is doxygen stuff at http://docs.openttd.org/ 22:01:08 <AndroUser> Thanks 22:06:17 *** AndroUser [~androirc@89.204.153.236] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 22:50:02 <FLHerne> That reminds me - is there any higher-level documentation than just each individual class/template? 22:51:33 <FLHerne> I was hacking at the pathfinder a while ago, I couldn't find any info on what exactly YAPF does as an integrated whole 23:15:31 *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:45 *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 23:20:24 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:33:45 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 23:47:02 <avdg> FLHerne: does this help? https://wiki.openttd.org/Yet_Another_Pathfinder 23:48:06 <LordAro> no one really understands YAPF very well, it's really badly documented 23:48:08 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:35 <LordAro> it probably wouldn't have been included in trunk nowadays :) 23:49:06 <avdg> documentation :p 23:50:17 <avdg> meh, imo you have to understand the global concept of a pathfinder, then understand the use case in openttd 23:50:59 <LordAro> and then understand the YAPF implementation, which is a whole different story :) 23:51:08 <avdg> yeah 23:51:18 <avdg> it takes a look from different perspectives 23:51:42 <avdg> ofc, undocumented code makes it even harder to understand :/ 23:51:57 <avdg> but meh, at least its a way to get close 23:52:19 <avdg> (and meh, don't take my advice literally, everybody is different, you know ;-) 23:53:18 <FLHerne> avdg: Not a huge amount, tbh 23:54:11 <FLHerne> I know pretty much what it does for the outside world, and from that page and the thread I can see kind of how it's supposed to work in theory 23:54:29 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:55:29 <FLHerne> But there's no detailed description of the algorithm, and no description at all of how the umpteen nested inherited templates make whatever that is happen 23:56:42 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 23:56:45 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 23:56:48 <avdg> I guess the maintainers had to fight with the code 23:57:22 <FLHerne> avdg: The problem is that it's obviously sacrificed simplicity (of implementation at least) to performance ages ago 23:58:00 <avdg> I guess thats a very good point 23:58:13 <avdg> there were a lot of complains about performances 23:58:20 <FLHerne> I wonder if older svn revisions have a version of it before it was optimised beyond uninformed comprehension? 23:58:32 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 23:59:22 <avdg> http://vcs.openttd.org/svn/diff?new_path=%2Ftrunk%2Fsrc%2Fpathfinder%2Fyapf&old_path=%2Ftrunk%2Fsrc%2Fpathfinder%2Fyapf&new_rev=26482&old_rev=26482 23:59:23 <avdg> ? 23:59:33 <avdg> just change the numbers :P