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00:01:01 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 00:32:13 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:41:17 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 00:45:47 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.40.221.47] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC is updating to v1.9.6 Beta Build (2014/09/05) 64 Bit] 00:46:26 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.40.221.47] has joined #openttd 01:03:32 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:09:44 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:11:21 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.40.221.47] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC: The sound of well-being. Â [www.adiirc.com]] 01:19:26 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 01:54:41 *** Hazzard_ [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 02:01:26 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:16:17 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 02:23:48 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:31:10 *** InvokeStatic_ [~Invoke@c-24-11-157-247.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 02:31:11 *** InvokeStatic [~Invoke@c-24-11-157-247.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33:18 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 02:54:19 *** Djohaal [~Djohaal@177.132.109.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:15:40 *** qwebirc9174 [~oftc-webi@AMarseille-651-1-37-22.w92-150.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd 03:16:43 *** qwebirc9174 [~oftc-webi@AMarseille-651-1-37-22.w92-150.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 03:33:01 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:12 *** Rubidium [~Rubidium@noiv.net] has joined #openttd 03:42:16 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:43:11 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 04:03:51 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:30:31 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5D70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC6765B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:02:26 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:15:03 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 05:43:33 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:51:35 <b_jonas> uh... in the "Available Trains" dialog box I open from the Trains list, how can I tell which rail type a train needs? 05:54:31 <b_jonas> wait what? there can be more than four rail types in a game? 05:57:31 <planetmaker> good morning. And welcome in 2010 ;) 05:59:36 <b_jonas> great! that means I can play with the default set of powerful steam, diesel and electric trains, the monorails and maglevs from this Monolev Replacement Set, and with this Vacuum Tube Train set, all in the same game! 05:59:45 <b_jonas> and even their dates line up nicely 05:59:58 <b_jonas> and they're all so powerful and fast 06:03:44 <b_jonas> hmm, but then I'll need to get a bridge set with fast enough bridges to handle these powerful vacuum trains 06:03:52 <b_jonas> do you have any suggestion? 06:03:53 <Supercheese> or just use tunnels 06:03:58 <Supercheese> no speed limits 06:04:48 <Supercheese> for crossing valleys/water, either just dive down/up the valley (vactrains will just laugh at the elevation changes) or raise land and build a causeway over the water 06:04:59 <Supercheese> for crossing tracks, use tunnels 06:05:44 <b_jonas> guess that's one possibility 06:06:29 <Supercheese> I know not of any bridgeset with high enough speeds for vactrains 06:06:42 <b_jonas> I've seen one but it's unrealistic 06:06:47 <b_jonas> it just adds one unlimited bridge 06:08:05 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 06:13:48 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:13 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.dihedral-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:29:42 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 06:34:36 *** dihedral [~dih@znc.dihedral-server.de] has joined #openttd 06:36:34 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:43:50 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 06:54:23 <planetmaker> b_jonas: you play with vacuum trains and argue a bridge might be unrealistic? Really? 06:59:26 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91.65.115.103] has joined #openttd 07:12:19 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:15:23 <Xaroth|Work> TomyLobo: do you play eve perchance? 07:15:51 <TomyLobo> hah, you're the 2nd person to ask me that this week 07:16:16 <TomyLobo> no, that character used to be mine, though 07:16:30 <Xaroth|Work> heh 07:16:38 <Xaroth|Work> well, I know what he's upto :P 07:27:55 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BB15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:30:23 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 07:33:36 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-46-133.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:48:36 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:52:37 *** MJP [~mjp@hq.z77.fr] has joined #openttd 08:02:56 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:10:30 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 08:21:06 *** Lopsi [Lopsi@ble59-3-82-226-202-140.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 08:32:52 <b_jonas> planetmaker: no, the grf that just changes existing bridges to unlimited speed limit is unrealistic. but I've found another that only makes tubular bridges stronger so they have a speed limit of 4100, specifically for vacuum trains. 08:32:57 <Rubidium> why would trains in a vacuum laugh at elevation changes? 08:33:25 <b_jonas> planetmaker: actually, the strange thing about vacuum trains is that they should be fast, but they shouldn't have such a high acceleration I think 08:33:43 <Rubidium> currently the biggest problem of high speed trains is the air drag, not the elevation changes. So if the air drag is removed, then the elevation changes are becoming much more significant 08:33:43 <b_jonas> is there a vacuum train set where they don't have more acceleration than ordinary maglevs? 08:34:46 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:35:49 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 08:35:54 <andythenorth> Pikka run away 08:36:05 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 08:38:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 08:40:41 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:43:42 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 08:43:58 <b_jonas> is there a command to single-step a pausd game? 08:45:48 <planetmaker> no. and no 08:45:57 <b_jonas> ok 08:49:27 <b_jonas> I'll have to try to add a command for that, so I can make successive screenshots of a game to make an animation 08:50:56 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:50:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 08:57:11 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-62-100.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:58:50 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #openttd 08:59:04 <planetmaker> search forums for timelaps patch 08:59:14 <planetmaker> ^ @ b_jonas 08:59:34 <planetmaker> ancient but might be moderately easy to adjust 08:59:55 <b_jonas> planetmaker: ok, thanks for the hint 09:00:09 <b_jonas> that might help me in where to start to look 09:22:12 <Pikka> doesn't it 09:24:54 <planetmaker> hm, timelapse even 09:46:16 *** VaLeo_q [~Vadym@46.98.235.231] has joined #openttd 09:54:54 *** George|2 [~George@185.43.94.91] has joined #openttd 09:54:54 *** George is now known as Guest1525 09:54:54 *** George|2 is now known as George 09:55:04 *** Guest1525 [~George@185.43.94.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:08:03 *** jinks [~jinks@172.245.35.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:10:29 *** jinks [~jinks@172.245.35.67] has joined #openttd 10:23:53 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 10:30:32 *** lugo [~oftc-webi@tmo-106-222.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #openttd 10:34:58 <lugo> hi, is it possible for a vehicle to - A) transfer a good to a station (no transfer order since cargodist is on) B) modify the cargo of said veh. resp. wagons and C) load the cargo it has been modified to - without having to leave the station/port etc.? 10:35:42 <lugo> i recently played the reddit client, and for some reason that behaviour was only possible with ships not trains.. 10:38:18 <b_jonas> lugo: I thought you could only refit vehicles in a depot or dock, and it costs money each time, but maybe not 10:40:41 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.175.8] has joined #openttd 10:40:54 <andythenorth> you can refit at stations, if the newgrf allows it 10:41:07 <andythenorth> there are also some bugs with it 10:41:22 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483b0c.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 10:42:13 <b_jonas> oh 10:42:15 <b_jonas> I see 10:42:26 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 10:42:43 <b_jonas> that applies to which kinds of vehicles? 10:51:19 <planetmaker> lugo, yes, that's possible. But the NewGRF needs to allow that. OpenGFX+Trains for instance does. Pretty sure that goes also for NUTS and IronHorse, likely also Pineapple trains 11:00:40 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BB15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:04:00 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:19:45 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:20:49 <lugo> Yeah i was using UKRS, but somehow it didn't work out 11:22:42 <lugo> since it's not vanilla i guess it won't make to much sense to post a savegame? 11:24:06 <planetmaker> ukrs doesn't support that, vanilla neither 11:25:44 <planetmaker> the station refit callback which needs to be used is relatively new (~2 years?), thus old(er) NewGRFs don't support it. And not even all new ones do 11:32:06 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 11:32:26 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest1531 11:32:28 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has joined #openttd 11:36:27 <lugo> i meant UKRS2.. 11:37:46 <lugo> what do you mean vanilla doesn't support that? 11:37:54 <planetmaker> OpenTTD w/o NewGRFs 11:38:31 *** Guest1531 [~Superchee@76.178.136.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:39:49 <lugo> it's not vanilla + UKRS2 (and other NewGRFs) it's the reddit client +UKRS2 (and other NewGRFs), so posting a savegame won't make much sense still?! 12:00:18 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:00:34 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:01:02 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 12:17:49 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has quit [Quit: Quitting.] 12:19:18 *** Defaultti [defaultti@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #openttd 12:26:11 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 12:49:28 *** Brumi [~quassel@78-131-41-191.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [] 12:51:53 *** VaLeo_q [~Vadym@46.98.235.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58:44 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:02:59 <Pikka> UKRS2 allows station refitting, but not for all vehicles or all cargos 13:03:10 <Pikka> it's realism and BAD FEATURES gone mad. 13:04:19 <Pikka> "auto-refittable" in the buy menu text refers to station refitting. 13:06:42 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 13:16:26 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@000128f3.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:38 *** jonty-comp [~jonty@borealis.jontysewell.net] has joined #openttd 13:21:02 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-219-51.tal.is] has joined #openttd 13:35:09 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:40:59 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 13:54:58 *** Hazzard [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 14:01:22 *** orudge [~orudge@000128f1.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:29 *** orudge [~orudge@owenrudge.net] has joined #openttd 14:01:46 *** Hazzard_ [~quassel@c-67-174-253-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:06:39 *** lugo [~oftc-webi@000189e6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:02 *** FUZxxl_ [~fuz@d00m.org] has joined #openttd 14:09:02 *** FUZxxl [~fuz@d00m.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:29 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:28:10 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 14:43:35 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:43:41 *** KWKdesign [~KWKdesign@pool-108-52-130-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 15:00:44 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:26:22 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:14 *** Flygon [~Flygon@147.18.214.218.sta.commander.net.au] has joined #openttd 15:33:30 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 15:40:11 *** DanMacK [~androirc@24.114.63.101] has joined #openttd 15:40:18 <DanMacK> hey all 15:51:03 *** jinks [~jinks@172.245.35.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:51:36 *** jinks [~jinks@172.245.35.67] has joined #openttd 16:01:56 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:06:23 *** DanMacK [~androirc@24.114.63.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:08:37 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 16:08:40 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 16:08:49 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 16:09:39 *** shirish [~quassel@59.94.53.177] has joined #openttd 16:11:57 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:16:17 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:37:18 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:44:44 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 16:48:18 *** Lopsi is now known as Izual 16:48:32 <Alberth> hi Izual 16:48:38 *** Izual [Lopsi@ble59-3-82-226-202-140.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 16:56:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you drove him away! 16:58:20 <Alberth> apparently :( 16:59:35 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: btw, I realized there is an advantage to cargo-dist, it makes your cargo move further, increasing the profit 17:00:24 <Alberth> so it's not just making your own life more difficult 17:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> sort of. needs a lot of investment in the network for that effect to dominate 17:01:25 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:01:25 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:01:25 <Alberth> I had two saw mills fed by wood. Connect them, and cargodist moves wood back and forth on that line 17:02:29 <Alberth> pretty much free money 17:03:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. "realism" :p 17:03:41 <Alberth> maybe the distance was just right 17:04:34 <Alberth> yeah, game-play wise it would be better if wood would move only one direction :) 17:04:40 <Eddi|zuHause> the "demand" heuristic is very crude 17:05:20 <Eddi|zuHause> you would need a better economy simulation to solve this 17:07:37 <Alberth> it would be nice if it could handle things like subsidies and probably supplies 17:07:52 <Alberth> scripts like nocargoal are also affected probably 17:08:27 <Alberth> except you can sort-of get away with it by not extending your network to beyond the destination 17:09:20 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is a fundamental shortcoming of cargodist. it does not automatically benefit you to extend your network to difficult-to-reach places 17:09:54 <Alberth> I had an idea to extend subsidies towards contracts, but with current cargo-dist that's going to be tricky 17:10:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i passenger subsidies could work more like exclusive transport rights within a city 17:11:20 <Pikka> <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: btw, I realized there is an advantage to cargo-dist, it makes your cargo move further, increasing the profit <- you could just move all your cargo long-distance anyway before, cargodist adds nothing new to that. 17:11:56 <Pikka> eg, only connect each coal mine to a powerplant on the other side of the map 17:12:10 <Eddi|zuHause> so sort of like "the first one to build an inner-city bus network will benefit" 17:12:33 <Pikka> sounds like a job for gamescripts ;) 17:12:53 <Eddi|zuHause> but he also needs a minimum transported amount (per year) to extend this subsidy to the next year 17:12:57 <Alberth> Pikka: true, it's just not my style of playing 17:13:32 <Alberth> you'd need to have control over cargo dist from the game script, imho 17:14:03 <Alberth> maybe not full control, but some control would be useful 17:16:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the game script could tweak some economy factors, or simulate an economy of its own 17:17:18 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:17:28 <Eddi|zuHause> the interface would be the "demand" function 17:17:59 <Alberth> sounds like a good idea 17:19:26 <Eddi|zuHause> which basically would be the same thing as tweaking pathfinder penalties, or providing a new follow_track function to the pathfinder. you don't have anything to modify in the core 17:21:51 <Alberth> indeed 17:23:56 <Eddi|zuHause> another place to tweak would be the industry production (maybe scale down by a factor if things are not connected) or the cargo payment (basically subsidies) 17:25:43 <Alberth> too bad the newgrf doesn't get info about moved cargo that it produces 17:26:04 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f742931.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 17:26:10 <Alberth> quak 17:26:22 <Eddi|zuHause> well the interface for that would be the station rating, but it's terrible at measuring that. 17:27:15 <Alberth> cannot hook our own rating CB in there? 17:27:22 <frosch123> hola 17:27:24 <Alberth> ie by NewGRF 17:27:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, newgrfs can do that. but it's a hassle, which is why nobody ever does it 17:28:05 <Eddi|zuHause> FIRS has a very rudimentary feature for that 17:28:48 <Eddi|zuHause> but here also comes in the problem that the newgrf only has local information, not global 17:29:03 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 17:30:40 <Eddi|zuHause> the current station rating has two major prolbems: a) a tiny bus every day is better than a huge train every month, no matter if the station is overflowing with cargo, and b) industries are way too sensitive towards low station rating 17:32:04 <Alberth> delivered cargo is delivered cargo right? The trouble is just that it should get global information to align against 17:32:54 <Alberth> but so far, newgrf specs assume industries don't need global information, or handing out some control 17:34:43 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is that low station rating has too many side effects. you cannot sustain a network basically below anything like 50%, which makes an algorithm that uses the station rating to measure connected industries and line capacity fail 17:35:58 *** shirish [~quassel@59.94.53.177] has joined #openttd 17:36:41 <Pikka> "realistically", cargos should have different sensitivities to vehicle frequency 17:36:54 <Pikka> coal can sit around for months, goods for a week, passengers want to go right now 17:36:56 <Alberth> with the currently broken rating mechanism you're dead anyway 17:38:03 <Eddi|zuHause> then you have the problem that both the newgrf (local and intrinsic information) and the gamescript (global information) need to have a say in the rating calculation 17:38:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 17:38:38 <Alberth> yeah 17:38:40 <Alberth> hi andy 17:38:47 <Eddi|zuHause> the game script cannot know what "COAL" is 17:39:25 <andythenorth> bonsoir 17:39:39 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it knows to the same extent as vehicle grfs know 17:39:40 <andythenorth> silly old âmust be neutral GS' 17:39:45 <Eddi|zuHause> and thus cannot decide on whether to favour line speed, line frequency or line capacity 17:39:46 <frosch123> it knows both the cargo id and the cargo classes 17:40:34 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, but the industry grf knows more than that, thus that is the place where the calculation should take place 17:40:36 <Alberth> frosch123: it's more about "can be months on transport" 17:41:43 <Alberth> or "needs constant delivery" or "needs only small amounts", probably 17:41:59 <andythenorth> is it an issue? 17:42:22 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: more like a dozen issues simultaneously 17:42:24 <andythenorth> seems a bit fiddly 17:42:40 <andythenorth> it was more of an issue watching cdist backload copper ore to the source 17:42:44 <andythenorth> which was bizarre 17:42:59 <andythenorth> trying to use a transfer-and-take-cargo order on a mixd train 17:43:24 <andythenorth> afaik transfer-and-x orders are known to be sketchy with cdist 17:43:42 <Alberth> they still are? 17:43:52 <Alberth> I know some were fixed 17:44:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not up to date with that. 17:44:44 <andythenorth> itâs probably reproducible in the game running on coop nightly server 17:44:53 <andythenorth> might try later 17:44:55 <andythenorth> still working :P 17:45:39 <Eddi|zuHause> "no loading" and "no unloading" should be no issue, but the problem with "transfer" was afair that cargo that uses train X can use A as destination, while cargo that uses train Y cannot 17:45:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r26768 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2014-09-05 17:45:37 UTC) 17:45:47 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:48 <DorpsGek> bulgarian - 13 changes by komara 17:45:49 <DorpsGek> esperanto - 87 changes by Ryton 17:45:50 <DorpsGek> spanish - 19 changes by juanjo 17:47:52 <Eddi|zuHause> but i still think the first thing to solve to make station rating as a measure for network quality work is remove the effect on industry growth/closure and the cargo decay effect. (and possibly figure out a new way to influence those) 17:48:13 <andythenorth> industry growth / closure needs a better mechanic 17:48:22 <andythenorth> also newgrf-able 17:48:28 <andythenorth> I think that would be a worthwhile project 17:49:19 <andythenorth> unrelated, I keep intending to refactor FIRS to use the built-in production multiplier (controlled by supplies not rating) 17:49:31 <andythenorth> but I donât understand the code that is doing the current production boost :) 17:49:58 <andythenorth> it would then be trivial to allow station rating + supplies 17:50:03 <andythenorth> or supplies + whatever 17:50:19 <andythenorth> cargo delivered rather than collected? 17:56:24 <Alberth> you didn't write the production boost thingie? 17:56:28 *** DanMacK [~androirc@24.114.62.141] has joined #openttd 17:56:47 <Alberth> woo, DanMacK and andythenorth online at the same time :) 17:56:59 <andythenorth> ho ho 17:57:00 <DanMacK> lol briefly... 17:57:33 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:01:52 *** DanMacK [~androirc@24.114.62.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:06 *** DanMacK [~androirc@24.114.62.141] has joined #openttd 18:06:29 <frosch123> andythenorth: didn't we drop the production multiplier because it was terrible gameplay? 18:07:41 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 18:08:11 <andythenorth> frosch123: yes, but the underlying mechanism makes sense imho 18:08:20 <andythenorth> and the cbs for it are fine 18:08:40 <andythenorth> i.e. the props that are incremented / decrememented seem ok to me 18:08:50 <frosch123> http://old-paste.openttdcoop.org/show/3115/ <- hmm, just remembered that. why did i not succeed in convincing you? :p 18:09:06 <frosch123> ^Spike^: btw. and example for an ancient paste to repost :p 18:09:55 <frosch123> from february :p 18:10:36 <andythenorth> mostly because I didnât want to write the patch & wait for FIRS compile 18:10:37 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:10:45 <andythenorth> :P 18:10:50 <frosch123> andythenorth: when the old method was trashed, the idea was that incremental changes are terrible, and direct quick feedback was nicer :p 18:10:56 <Wolf01> hey 18:11:17 <Pikka> fixed production 18:11:21 <andythenorth> frosch123: yes, I wouldnât change the gameplay, just the nfo / nml implementation 18:11:25 <Pikka> every mine produces the same for ever 18:11:27 <Alberth> hi Wolf01 18:11:29 <Pikka> best gameplay 18:11:37 <andythenorth> thatâs what fishing grounds do 18:11:40 <andythenorth> users hate me for it 18:12:05 <Pikka> hum 18:12:33 <Pikka> in that case, an arcane string of letters and numbers in the industry info window is the only solution 18:12:41 <^Spike^> frosch123 if you want it on the new paste... copy... pasta? :D 18:13:23 <Alberth> Pikka: I once sent a bug report to george about dumping debug output in the window :D 18:13:30 <frosch123> ^Spike^: no, i want it in firs :p 18:14:41 *** DanMacK [~androirc@24.114.62.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14:55 *** DanMacK [~androirc@24.114.62.141] has joined #openttd 18:19:03 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:54ca:25f2:f6ee:9fba] has joined #openttd 18:19:18 *** DanMacK [~androirc@24.114.62.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:36:08 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:38:14 *** Saladan0 [~saladan0@host-69-144-114-153.csp-wy.client.bresnan.net] has joined #openttd 18:39:31 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.40.221.47] has joined #openttd 18:42:47 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 18:55:15 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:57:22 <andythenorth> so flat docks? 18:57:48 <Alberth> found a new pony? 18:58:06 <andythenorth> yeah 18:59:16 <andythenorth> we should MP game 18:59:18 <andythenorth> but not right now 18:59:50 <Alberth> your timing for these things is quite terrible :( 19:00:08 <andythenorth> your timezone is terrible :( 19:00:15 <andythenorth> I only just finished work 19:00:48 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BB15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:00:59 <Alberth> fair enough :) 19:11:31 <Wolf01> http://hugelolcdn.com/i700/304057.jpg wait, you mean you're not on our timezone? 19:12:38 <planetmaker> lok, good one, Wolf01 :) 19:14:31 <Rubidium> ;) 19:14:36 <Pikka> am I not, then? 19:14:55 <Pikka> I guess that means I must be still up at 5am :o 19:15:03 <andythenorth> you are just past Italy, no? 19:15:16 <andythenorth> Brisbologna 19:15:30 <Rubidium> andythenorth: how can that be? Last time I was in the UK (i.e. last week) I finished around 14:00-ish 19:15:49 <Rubidium> how can that time zone now have work till 20:00? 19:16:00 <andythenorth> you are a university lecturer? 19:16:04 <andythenorth> nobody else finishes at 14.00 19:16:17 <andythenorth> unless they start at 06.00 19:16:40 <Rubidium> no, I had a training. Today I was done at 10:00 (and started at 07:30, but that's more because I worked till 18:00 the last few days) 19:17:47 <Rubidium> I did go to Imperial College afterwards last friday, so I had university-ish and lecture-ish that day 19:25:48 * andythenorth fixes offsets 19:25:59 <andythenorth> hmm 19:26:10 <andythenorth> we removed up cursor support in console? 19:26:53 <Alberth> no 19:27:29 <Alberth> at least not in r26762 19:27:56 <andythenorth> failing in OS X 19:27:57 <andythenorth> new 19:28:04 * andythenorth types reload_newgrf a lot tonight :P 19:28:41 <Pikka> andythenorth, measure twice, cut once? 19:28:53 <andythenorth> for offsets? 19:29:00 <andythenorth> I always end up doing it by eye 19:29:12 <andythenorth> and the in-game sprite aligner values have minimal relation to the newgrf values 19:30:13 <Rubidium> does dividing by 4 help? 19:30:58 <andythenorth> might be divide by 2 on y 19:31:03 <andythenorth> and x might be correct 19:33:39 <Alberth> I usually write down the start and final values, and change the newgrf value by the same amount in the same direction 19:34:36 <andythenorth> itâs ok 19:34:42 <andythenorth> I usually get it right in 3 or 4 attempts 19:34:53 <andythenorth> and thereâs only 40 sets to define 19:35:05 <andythenorth> so I only have to type reload_newgrfs 150 times or so 19:35:09 <Alberth> do all 40 at the same time :p 19:36:34 <andythenorth> you single-shot coders :P 19:36:39 <andythenorth> I see people do it, but I never can 19:36:48 <Pikka> make template vehicle 19:36:51 <Pikka> turn on bounding boxes 19:37:01 <Pikka> take screenshots to measure offset errors 19:37:12 <Pikka> fix offset errors 19:37:23 <Pikka> put all sprites into template from template vehicle :P 19:37:34 <Alberth> done! 19:37:46 <andythenorth> oh eddi had a thing for that too 19:38:01 <andythenorth> he showed me how to measure and calculate the offset reliably 19:38:08 * andythenorth has fricking forgotten 19:38:18 <Alberth> write a script :) 19:39:34 *** Alberth [~hat@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 19:40:09 <Pikka> meanwhile, back in the jungle... 19:40:10 <Pikka> http://i.imgur.com/2JTqM0G.png 19:42:29 <andythenorth> yay 19:43:53 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:45:04 * andythenorth trams 19:46:09 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:55:30 <andythenorth> faster car 19:55:31 <andythenorth> express 19:55:33 *** TomyLobo [~foo@91.65.115.103] has quit [Quit: Standby mode...] 19:55:40 <Pikka> implied 19:56:02 <andythenorth> shiny 20:08:57 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 20:24:59 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 20:29:00 * andythenorth does pondering 20:29:11 <frosch123> pondering pondering? 20:29:12 <andythenorth> frick, just remembered I have bugs to fix :( 20:29:24 <andythenorth> do frogs ponder? 20:29:56 <b_jonas> yes 20:30:09 <frosch123> nah, i just slack off 20:33:45 <frosch123> i could write nml specs 20:34:00 <andythenorth> or watch youtube videos 20:38:23 <andythenorth> or fix bugs :P 20:50:29 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> he showed me how to measure and calculate the offset reliably <-- the "anchor" pixel is the hidden corner of the bounding box. very easy 20:51:08 <andythenorth> oh yes :) 20:51:12 <andythenorth> and then just measure 20:51:19 <andythenorth> worked first time 99% of time 20:59:27 * andythenorth releases horses 21:05:39 <Eddi|zuHause> hold back your horses! 21:07:03 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:08:54 *** Saladan1 [~saladan0@host-69-144-114-153.csp-wy.client.bresnan.net] has joined #openttd 21:11:09 <Markk> Guten tag, any folks from Bundesrepublik Deutschland here? :) 21:11:28 <Markk> Or other peeps that speak German? 21:11:33 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:12:03 <Markk> Would this be a good formulation: "Freitag mit einem wenig gemÃŒtlichen tortillas"? 21:13:18 *** Saladan0 [~saladan0@host-69-144-114-153.csp-wy.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:13:26 <Markk> (Tortillas is just a placeholder for another word) 21:17:38 <andythenorth> yay 21:17:46 <andythenorth> a 666 pixel wide screenshot 21:17:57 <andythenorth> Iron Horseman of the Apocalypse 21:18:28 <Markk> o/ 21:18:31 <Markk> \o/* 21:19:22 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 21:19:31 <andythenorth> is released http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=71219&p=1130765#p1130765 21:19:38 <andythenorth> happy horsing 21:19:57 <andythenorth> itâs basically just UKRS 2, but with more BAD FEATURES 21:31:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:32:01 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:54ca:25f2:f6ee:9fba] has quit [Quit: .] 21:38:57 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.40.221.47] has quit [Quit: moc.criida.www ni eno reporp a daolnwod ,nekorb si tneilc cri ruoy] 21:39:41 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.40.221.47] has joined #openttd 21:40:55 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 21:42:52 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 21:43:04 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:41 <frosch123> Markk: friday with little/hardly comfortable tortillas? 21:45:46 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 21:45:55 <frosch123> ENoSense :) 21:47:39 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 21:47:53 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:51:46 <Markk> frosch123: "Friday with a bit of cozy tortillas" 21:52:22 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1BB15.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:39 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 21:56:29 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 21:58:23 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 22:01:31 <frosch123> well, i cannot figure out the intonation you are heading for. either you want to invite some business partner, your mother-in-law, or you want to date someone :) 22:02:50 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 22:11:00 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 22:15:02 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 22:16:03 <frosch123> night 22:16:07 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f742931.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:16:34 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 22:29:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Markk: i agree with frosch123 here. we definitely need more context. 22:30:11 <Markk> It's just a random sentence. :) 22:30:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it is not even a sentence 22:30:51 <Markk> The sentence that I wanted in the beginning was "Friday with a bit of cozy suicide". 22:31:16 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:31:17 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, instead of "einem" you probably want "ein" 22:31:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and "wenig" could be replaced by "biÃchen" (or new spelling "bisschen") 22:31:50 <Markk> But I think it should be "A cozy Friday with a suicide". 22:32:01 <Markk> Ah, that's great to know 22:32:02 <Markk> :) 22:32:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that is also probably closer related to "bit", etymologically 22:33:03 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: How would you translate this: "A cozy Friday with a suicide"? 22:33:12 <Eddi|zuHause> "BiÃ" ~ "Bite", and "-chen" is a diminutive 22:34:17 <Eddi|zuHause> "Ein gemÃŒtlicher Freitag mit [einem] Selbstmord" 22:34:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it might flow better without the "a" ("einem") 22:34:41 <Markk> Should it be einem and not ein in that case? 22:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> but again, depends on context 22:34:50 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 22:35:08 <Eddi|zuHause> because the "a" now refers to the "suicide", and not the "bit" 22:35:13 <Markk> ah 22:35:25 <Markk> Cheers mate! 22:36:13 <Eddi|zuHause> also, it would be completely different if you used "tortillas" 22:36:57 <Markk> ah 22:37:06 <Markk> Good thaat I took the real sentence now then 22:37:06 <Markk> :) 22:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause> you have to be careful with replacements, as the defining properties are the gender and the plural 22:38:02 <Markk> Ich danke Ihnen fÃŒr Ihre Hilfe! 22:38:09 <Markk> ah 22:38:14 <Eddi|zuHause> so you have to take a word that has these exact same properties 22:38:14 <Markk> I suspected that 22:38:15 <Markk> :) 22:38:24 <Markk> Yeah 22:39:24 <Eddi|zuHause> and again, it's not actually a sentence :p 22:39:56 <Markk> And I'm not so good at German to get an correct word. 22:40:07 <Markk> It's more of a phrase. 22:43:25 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has joined #openttd 22:51:17 *** iniazi [~oftc-webi@pool-108-0-20-152.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 22:53:18 <iniazi> Hello guys, i'm having a strange issue with openttd. it won't download updates/new addons through the 'Check Online Content' in-game interface... it installs fine, it downloads opengfx during install fine, I'm able to see multiplayer servers and able to connect (and spectate atleast) 22:55:08 <iniazi> I disabled the firewall on this machine (win 7) without any luck. process explorer shows a connection established when I click 'download', to 94.23.161.41:http 22:55:32 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has quit [] 22:56:33 <LordAro> what happens when you click that button? 22:56:37 *** MTsPony [~MTsPony@008-086-128-083.dynamic.caiway.nl] has joined #openttd 22:57:16 <iniazi> another machine (win8.1) isn't able to connect either. On my work laptop (macbook pro) via vpn, it connects fine. so something with my network. just want to rule out bugs or find more info to help me debug (debug log of network activity...) 22:57:50 <iniazi> LordAro: it brings up a window showing progress, but never progresses... just '0B of 5.59 MiB Downloaded' 22:58:41 <iniazi> I deleted my install & openttd directory under my documents or whatever, and did a fresh install. but again i can't install new content through that 22:59:06 <LordAro> weird 22:59:43 <LordAro> i assume you've tried rebooting the router? (about as far as my networking debugging knowledge extends, i'm afraid :) ) 23:00:04 <iniazi> i'm thinking its my egress (fios) router... 23:00:28 <LordAro> routers do sometimes have their own builtin firewall 23:00:30 <iniazi> yeah. its been like this for a few months. I remember starting it up couple of months ago, and same thing. but didn't really start playing till now 23:01:09 <Wolf01> 'night all 23:01:16 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:01:19 <ST2> hint: try make a fresh installation of OpenTTD in a drive that not C: and create an empty openttd.cfg file there (same folder that exe) 23:01:24 <ST2> or binary 23:01:36 <iniazi> seems to be making an http connection to openttd.org, website works fine and content list is populated correctly with updates etc. 23:02:06 <iniazi> ST2: yeah good point. I'll do the non-installer route. should have tried that already 23:06:39 <ST2> well, noticed that new M$ systems are way protective with OS drive - sometimes require a bunch of work to make stuff work as you want xD 23:08:41 <iniazi> ST2: well I copied the zip file over to a directory in d:\ and renamed any openttd dirs on c:\ so it won't find it. anyway, it starts and says no opengfx (or something like that) and asks me to download? i said yes, and same ... 0 B of 3.28 MiB etc. 23:08:54 <iniazi> i mean its stuck there at 0B 23:09:18 <ST2> note: check all your AV/Firewall softwares running - openttd.exe, as an executable can be marked as dangerous sometimes ^^ 23:09:27 <ST2> so, there's your issue 23:09:31 <iniazi> on process explorer it shows an established connection to openttd.org... 23:09:43 <iniazi> oh man, i forgot to check AV. 23:09:46 <ST2> and traffic? 23:10:44 <ST2> if connection is made... there should be some bits/bytes from each side 23:11:24 <iniazi> disabled avast and nope... I was actually so sure that would do it. hmm. let me see if I can see traffic. windows i'm usually limited to what I can see... let me see if I can install wireshark 23:11:40 <ST2> unistall Avast 23:11:54 <ST2> that's crap 23:12:10 <ST2> tell me when done 23:14:27 <LordAro> ...install something else though 23:14:39 <LordAro> MSE or AVG are usually good enough 23:14:47 <ST2> Comodo 23:15:16 <ST2> note: I dnt work there 23:15:25 <ST2> and it's free too ^^ 23:17:30 <LordAro> not a fan of comodo, far too interfering 23:17:51 <ST2> setting it is a bit hard, yeah 23:18:06 <ST2> but at least is highly costumizable :D 23:18:28 <ST2> "setting it" as you want :D 23:18:31 <iniazi> Aside from a few false positive, avast is probably the fastest and one of the best databases and least amount of false positives... and low overhead. or atleast was about 2 years ago 23:23:55 <ST2> damn, was trying to get you an example about it (and IRC) but I use a bouncer - as most of ppl here ^^ 23:27:03 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.116.140] has joined #openttd 23:33:11 <iniazi> ST2: i tried it on a new win8.1 box that I have... it only has the windows builtin firewall/defender (default settings)... its about 3 weeks old. and the same issue. Its something to do with my fios router probably. 23:33:55 <iniazi> don't have any other problems... is there a way to turn on debugging for openttd? let me try wireshark i guess 23:40:45 *** Pikka [~Octomom@d58-106-46-133.rdl801.qld.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:43:47 <ST2> well, and I'm bothering myselg with a person that knows Wireshark? other software are milk and cookies 23:43:57 <ST2> myself* 23:44:30 <iniazi> basically it connects and does a post: "POST /bananas HTTP/1.0\r\n" and '3161' and then no response 23:45:55 *** ST2 is now known as xT2 23:45:55 *** xT2 is now known as ST2 23:45:57 *** ST2 is now known as xT2 23:46:31 <iniazi> i'm just gonna give up on it for now. Someday, I may reset my fios router to default settings, and I bet its the fios router thats probably doing it... 23:47:03 <iniazi> thats the only common thing between this and the other host 23:50:02 *** DabuYu [DabuYu@128.250.79.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:51:12 <iniazi> generally openttd is great.. the download interface usually works great, and you can download and upload pretty easily. Have been playing tt, off and on since the original game came out. now I have my 8 and 10 year old sons playing it too. :) 23:54:59 *** iniazi [~oftc-webi@pool-108-0-20-152.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]