Config
Log for #openttd on 24th November 2014:
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04:05:16  <supermop> how hard would it me to make trees aware of the slope they are on?
04:06:32  <Supercheese> trees-as-newobjects? easy. Tree trees? No idea
04:06:39  <Supercheese> True trees/whatever
04:09:39  <supermop> basically just to shade trees by x% if the average slope of tile is away from 'sun'
04:09:57  <supermop> so you can see relief of map with trees on
04:13:10  <supermop> as is, trees are essentially noise, so even on a very mountainous map, the camouflage all of the contour of the terrain
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05:10:51  <Flygon> http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/lotus-f1-team-sets-world-record-for-truck-jump-20141124-11skub.html Is this a valid feature request for OpenTTD?
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08:17:50  <horazont> whom do I have to ask if I want to be added here <https://wiki.openttd.org/Server_admin_port>? (or rather, my software project)
08:23:50  <Xaroth|Work> anybody can edit the wiki
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08:24:59  <Xaroth|Work> having something that's 'workable' would probably be the requirement for other people to not remove it at some later point I'd say
08:25:59  <horazont> oh okay, so I just need an account
08:26:22  <horazont> well, it does work, I’m basing an XMPP client on it. the frame project is to create an XMPP <-> OpenTTD admin gateway bot
08:33:38  <__ln__> http://sploid.gizmodo.com/this-is-the-longest-train-journey-in-the-world-from-ch-1662427996
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10:04:07  <Marshy> Morning!
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10:07:50  <horazont> moi
10:07:51  <horazont> n
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10:51:30  <Eddi|zuHause> moi aussi
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11:58:36  <V453000> hmm, creating 1+2+2+2+1 articulated wagon has quite a downside in that you have to always drag the vehicle for the first 1/8 part when moving it inside depot :/
12:01:31  <planetmaker> I already asked, but I didn't quite understand the reasoning or forgot parts of it: why do the wagons of 4/8 and 8/8 need to be articulated at all?
12:02:03  <planetmaker> what about a short and a long version, just as two different vehicles?
12:02:18  <planetmaker> then it's easy to autoreplace between those
12:05:15  <V453000> cause e.g. chameleon only allows short wagons and e.g. normal monorail only long ones
12:05:32  <V453000> easy yes, intuitive no
12:06:07  <V453000> but it is one of the options I considered yeah
12:07:11  <V453000> it would make sense for openttd to drag the whole consist while pulling just one of the vehicles though :P
12:07:23  <V453000> like doubleheads and articulations :P
12:07:24  <planetmaker> just allow both length on all engines
12:07:34  <V453000> hm.
12:07:58  <planetmaker> a slug with long wagons then just is an old slug which cannot bend as nicely anymore :P
12:07:59  <V453000> that would probably cause quite a mess
12:08:05  <planetmaker> mess? in what way?
12:08:20  <V453000> well e.g. slug doesnt have any long wagon sprites
12:08:44  <planetmaker> ah, they have specific sprites for the wagons? hm
12:08:48  <V453000> sure
12:08:48  <planetmaker> then not :)
12:10:45  <V453000> somewhat of an option would be to have 4+4 and let the 8/8 engines just bend a bit sooner/later
12:11:00  <V453000> I will have to see how poor that looks :D
12:11:38  <V453000> actually that sounds like the only option if I want to have the articulated depot-dragging not completely borken
12:12:06  <V453000> hm guess tunnels and hills will suck the most
12:12:19  <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you can have a long sprite in the depot, then the long sprite will be dragged around
12:13:23  <V453000> true that!
12:13:45  <V453000> still got to click the first unit of the consist though
12:13:54  <V453000> which in case of 1/8 is probably a bit ass
12:14:29  <V453000> can something be done about that on openttd side? I always found it annoying to just accidentally click the wrong unit of the consist tbh
12:14:56  <V453000> if it is an articulated vehicle, why not allow it to move when dragged by any part?
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12:38:08  <peter1138> FixIt!
12:40:00  <peter1138> 2cc Bus Set, huh
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13:02:25  <micky> hi
13:10:07  <planetmaker> hi
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13:23:27  <argoneus> ayyy
13:23:37  <micky> hi
13:26:44  <George> hi
13:27:51  <George> How to set value to PR_RUNNING_TRAIN_ELECTRIC to 5600 (default 4800)?
13:28:13  <George> this page http://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Setting_base_costs says only how to Double it
13:31:03  <planetmaker> generally, NewGRF can only work with powers of two on base costs
13:31:19  <planetmaker> so you can keep it, double it, half it, quadruple it, etc
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13:33:38  <George> bad :(
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14:18:14  <Eddi|zuHause> a lot of problems with costs would be solved if it were extended from byte to word or dword
14:21:31  <peter1138> So many problems, so many fixes, so little contributions.
14:27:12  <V453000> xcept making fuckload of newgrfs :P
14:27:23  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is that extending specs is not something a lonely and bored contributor can do
14:27:47  <peter1138> Why not?
14:28:31  <peter1138> Only problem I see is that NewGRF authors get confused by code because they're graphics people really.
14:28:50  <Eddi|zuHause> you either get lost in updating the dozen tools, or with commitee discussions on how it could be made better
14:29:31  <V453000> kind of a big problem peter1138 :P
14:30:01  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, that would be simple. Just adding a new dword cost property for each feature
14:30:09  <planetmaker> and using that, if defined, otherwise the old
14:30:18  <planetmaker> like RV speed
14:30:40  <planetmaker> or whatever it was
14:30:44  <planetmaker> or like introduction date
14:32:00  <peter1138> Feature request: Port to SDL2.
14:32:02  <peter1138> Cool...
14:34:13  <Eddi|zuHause> why did nobody  think of that before?
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14:58:13  <George> What is the right way to check in cost/runing_cost CB if the vehicle is build or not (purchase window)?
14:58:53  <George> Providing purchase_cost_factor for every veh does not seem to be nice solution
15:03:42  <planetmaker> peter1138, port to SDL2 would make the android port significantly smaller :)
15:03:54  <planetmaker> but I recall LordAro :P
15:04:06  <LordAro> wuh
15:05:53  <planetmaker> George, there's a vehicle property for that. and there's the purchase_running_cost_factor callback
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15:49:21  <dreck> hi
15:54:25  <planetmaker> hi
15:54:45  <planetmaker> interesting nickname, one has to say
15:54:52  <dreck> heh thanks
15:55:23  <planetmaker> it translates to 'scum' :P
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15:55:39  <planetmaker> (or 'dirt' - depends on context)
15:56:01  <Xaroth|Work> or 'your parents really didn't want you' :P
15:56:18  <planetmaker> pssst!
15:56:22  <Xaroth|Work> what?
15:56:27  <dreck> well different languages have different meanings so I can't say more :)
15:56:59  <dreck> especially a car named Nova which in one particular country was believed to mean "bad luck" which not surprisingly matched its poor sales there
15:57:28  <Jinassi> same with Pinto
15:58:36  <planetmaker> or pajero and vento
15:59:10  <Jinassi> Yugo? lol
15:59:18  <Xaroth|Work> or 'kok' .. a semi-common dutch surname which sounds an awful lot like 'cock'.
15:59:20  <dreck> jinassi what did 'pinto' mean?
15:59:36  <Xaroth|Work> especially when your first name is then 'dick' ...
15:59:42  <Jinassi> similar car to Chevy Nova, only made by Ford
15:59:51  <dreck> no I mean..what did that word mean
15:59:54  <Jinassi> dunno what it meant
16:03:10  <dreck> anyway I'm just wondering..the action7 effects everything so if it was scripted for 1960 road sprite update then it wouldn't matter if the road had already been laid down in <1959 it would gain the new sprites immedately?
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16:10:11  <planetmaker> dreck, there's only one road sprite possible. Action7/9 are static and only evaluated at grf load time.
16:10:52  <Alberth> hi hi
16:11:11  <planetmaker> and if you query the current time in an action7/9, it will always evaluate to the same, for multiplayer purposes, ignoring the other choices
16:11:14  <planetmaker> hi hi :)
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16:12:55  <dreck> hm guess maybe I'll see if I couldn't ask pikka or someone then
16:12:58  <dreck> thanks anyway
16:13:36  <planetmaker> sorry, dreck, NewGRFs can't work around that (yet). It would need real road types similar to railway tracktypes. At least to some degree
16:15:27  <dreck> planetmaker so how is it that a few townsets have different roads in different generations? like I said I might just have to ask the grf owners :-s
16:15:51  <peter1138> You have to reload the game to make the change work.
16:15:57  <peter1138> This doesn't work in multiplayer.
16:16:10  <peter1138> They're not hiding a secret from you.
16:16:12  <V453000> it does if you reload the savegame on server :P
16:17:22  <peter1138> V453000, no, it uses the game starting year.
16:18:13  <V453000> ttrs and north american roads always did work with reloading ... perhaps I re-saved it through singleplayer though
16:18:20  <V453000> which still shouldnt change starting year I think
16:18:30  <peter1138> Probably it used to "work."
16:19:19  <V453000> XD
16:19:59  <V453000> well north american roads are probably gone for good and ttrs isnt really too great for pre-1930 starts anyway
16:20:01  <V453000> so "meh"
16:21:07  <peter1138> That's why we're waiting on your unrealistic 32bpp 4x town and road set...
16:21:31  <Marshy> What's a good pre-1930s townset anyway?
16:23:21  <peter1138> TaI is the only good one.
16:26:20  <Jinassi> uk set is good too, but after a while it starts spewing churches out, like it's spanish inquzition and they take 4 tiles and all your relations to bomb 1
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16:30:42  <dreck> heh..too many churches = where are the bedrooms anymore?  :)
16:31:13  <George> planetmaker: how a property can check something??
16:33:15  <George> I know about purchse_cost_factor and purchase_running_cost factor. My question was how to check if the vehicle already built in the cost_factor and running_cost_factor CBs
16:33:24  <Marshy> I didn't do well with TaL, I just got a map full of colourful tiles, unsure if I was using the correct version or not
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16:34:08  <dreck> george are you the same george who does LV rvsets?
16:34:33  <George> dreck: Yes, ECS, xUSSR train set
16:35:37  <dreck> ah..used to like LV3 before but now don't have it so much anymore due to sprite limit and other newer grfs altogether tho
16:35:59  <dreck> as for ecs...well..I'll refrain from commenting
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16:45:36  <Eddi|zuHause> George: i don't know if you can check for purchase menu outside of the action3, but you can STORE_TEMP some stuff in the entry point for the callback, and then load that later in the chain
16:47:33  <George> TRAINS do not have REGISTERs AFAIR
16:48:29  <planetmaker> but temp storage
16:48:43  <planetmaker> so yes, eddi's idea might work
16:49:49  <planetmaker> dreck, "sprite limit"? You mean you have so many newgrfs that you run out of place for sprites? That'd be curious
16:50:45  <Eddi|zuHause> George: temporary storage is valid for the duration of the callback
16:56:33  <peter1138> sprite limit, heh
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17:04:48  <dreck> lunchtime now so me going
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17:09:06  <peter1138> It's possible he's still playing TTDPatch?
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17:18:58  <planetmaker> peter1138, no. He played on an openttd server
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17:49:23  <argoneus> http://youtube.com/watch?v=KWodyapGNxI
17:49:24  <argoneus> I lost it at the spade
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19:09:56  <Wolf01> hi hi
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19:15:33  <andythenorth> hai
19:16:55  <Alberth> hihi
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19:24:31  <andythenorth> cat is busy
19:32:05  <andythenorth> obsessing over small details :P
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19:32:25  <SpComb> ohai
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19:54:13  <Wolf01> http://hugelolcdn.com/i460/316650.jpg bad feature, sleeping trucks
19:54:54  <Alberth> :D
19:57:32  <andythenorth> oops
19:57:43  <andythenorth> weather disasters in game? o_O
19:59:15  <SpComb> that looks like a windy plain
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20:38:10  <andythenorth> bye
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21:46:15  <Eddi|zuHause> after all these years i still have no clue what the weather in SC2000 actually did
21:50:47  <frosch123> most likely nothing
21:51:01  <frosch123> stuff that changes often averages out to nothing
21:51:18  <frosch123> that's why smooth economy in ottd is so silly
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21:51:39  <frosch123> it changes the production of every industry every month
21:52:05  <frosch123> if it would instead give the production a linear slope it would be easier to play with
21:52:13  <frosch123> and on averag eit would be the same anyway
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22:04:25  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:22:03  <andythenorth_> frosch123: one day a better industry economy will get figured out :p
22:22:30  <andythenorth_> No newgrf has managed it
22:22:53  <andythenorth_> PBI not, ECS not, FIRS not
22:23:33  <andythenorth_> FIRS approach to primaries is too brutal, no finesse
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22:40:58  <frosch123> clearly firs needs plugin support
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22:41:17  <frosch123> just load a new economy via xml into the grf
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22:42:42  <frosch123> night
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22:47:32  <supermop> lots of new sprites while i was asleep it seems
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