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Log for #openttd on 28th December 2014:
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05:56:23  <Flygon> Dumb question: Has 'diagonal' railway platforms ever been discussed?
06:43:09  <Supercheese> Yep, there is oooooooold patch for it
06:43:34  <Supercheese> dunno if I have the link to it, I think it is petern's
06:57:02  <Supercheese> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=841561#p841561
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08:04:47  <andythenorth> o/
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08:16:51  <Supercheese> Aloha
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08:53:58  <Supercheese> aaand good night
08:54:09  <Alberth> gn
08:54:20  <Supercheese> argh a spammer
08:54:49  <Supercheese> ban that taylor user
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08:59:32  <peter1138> krtaylor? :p
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09:03:01  <taylor> ??
09:03:02  <taylor> what
09:03:11  <taylor> did someone here make lambos.info
09:03:12  <taylor> ?
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09:08:49  <peter1138> Never heard of it.
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09:17:11  <Alberth> andythenorth: hi hi, pushed a cargo type storage routine
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09:38:07  <andythenorth> morning Alberth :)
09:38:12  <andythenorth> so key value lists
09:38:17  <andythenorth> and we were only iterating keys
09:38:30  <andythenorth> or something, I don’t understand the Squirrel implementation
09:38:47  <Alberth> indeed
09:38:54  <andythenorth> someone kban taylor
09:39:02  <andythenorth> spam dms
09:39:08  <taylor_> TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE
09:39:08  <taylor_> DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN
09:39:10  <taylor_> LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN
09:39:10  <taylor_> LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN
09:39:12  <taylor_> LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN
09:39:12  <taylor_> LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO
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09:39:14  <taylor_> DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN
09:39:16  <taylor_> LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN
09:39:16  <taylor_> LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN
09:39:18  <taylor_> LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN
09:39:18  <taylor_> LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO TAKE DOWN LAMBOS.INFO
09:39:52  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*@217.23.10.189] by peter1138
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09:40:09  <andythenorth> that’ll do it
09:40:22  <peter1138> Obviously never heard of the Streisand Effect.
09:41:56  <andythenorth> Alberth: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pmivrctnm  not so much a spec as ‘notes to self’ I made last night :)
09:42:20  <peter1138> Anyone been able to review frosch's patch?
09:42:34  <peter1138> I don't really understand it all, just it looks a lot simpler to me.
09:42:42  <peter1138> (That sounds wrong)
09:43:47  <Alberth> it's on my todo list, but didn't get to it so far
09:44:32  <Alberth> looks good andy, I am working on trying to find a challenge for industries
09:44:57  <Alberth> something along the line   find_challenge(cargo, desired_distance)
09:47:21  <sla_ro|master> wtf
09:47:26  <sla_ro|master> he spammed all other channels
09:50:04  <Alberth> andy, do you want specific pairs of source and destination? (not sure it's possible currently).  I was thinking to find a destination only
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09:50:40  <Alberth> ie find a destination without any supplier nearby :)
09:51:40  <andythenorth> Alberth: I think source / destination pairs are nice
09:51:46  <andythenorth> but not essential
09:52:11  <andythenorth> I thought there might be classes of goal (possibly literally classes in squirrel, encapsulating win / lose logic)
09:52:28  <andythenorth> I wondered if subsidies are any use to us also
09:52:38  <Alberth> iirc you can monitor pickup and delivery, but whether the picked up cargo is also delivered at the right spot is not tracked afaik
09:53:04  <andythenorth> makes sense
09:53:30  <Alberth> sure, having a 'goal' object makes sense
09:53:41  <Alberth> you noticed existence of GSGoal?
09:54:00  <Alberth> perhaps it's just something story-book ish
09:54:48  <Alberth> at least it doesn't look like it does anything by itself
09:58:20  <Alberth> afaik subsidies are quite hard-coded with a year to get it, and a year duration, maybe my contract ideas are of use? http://wiki.openttd.org/Alberth/Contracts
09:59:43  <andythenorth> afaict GSGoal is how we put the goals into the ‘goals’ window
10:00:01  <andythenorth> so far, I think story book (multi-page thing) is probably overkill for this
10:00:47  <andythenorth> I guess source-destination pairs means tracking a lot of cargo packets
10:00:56  <andythenorth> do packets even have origin stored?
10:04:43  <Alberth> yes, for payement purposes you need to know the origin
10:05:46  <Alberth> subsidies also check the origin
10:06:22  <Alberth> but cargo monitoring currently only tracks amounts of cargo
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10:07:46  <andythenorth> nvm
10:07:58  <andythenorth> work with what we have :)
10:18:14  <Alberth> andythenorth:  pushed an algorithm for industry cargo challenges
10:18:23  <Alberth> based on distance only
10:18:41  <Alberth> probably we should also check production :)
10:23:01  <Alberth> :O towns also have production, that would be nice to unify challenge creation
10:32:42  * andythenorth pulls
10:33:15  <andythenorth> Alberth: I was thinking about production, wondering how to normalise required delivery amounts to cargo available on map (or such)
10:33:21  <andythenorth> didn’t have an answer yet
10:35:56  <Alberth> just look at produced but not transported amount * 0.8 = max amount you can pull from the producer
10:36:52  <Alberth> assume X days / 10 tile distance + N months of that production + slack = deadline
10:37:55  <Alberth> 0.8 may need to be lower at the start of the game due to money limits?
10:38:32  <andythenorth> maybe
10:38:55  <andythenorth> looks like a good time to make goals appear in the goal window
10:39:01  <Alberth> or we could make a slack long, and then change it based on your performance
10:39:37  <Alberth> euhm, I mean   we could make the slack time quite long and ..
10:40:38  * andythenorth going to poke at GSGoal
10:40:45  <andythenorth> interrupted by children often
10:43:10  <Alberth> I guess we should build a list of sources and targets and maintain that through time
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10:44:14  <andythenorth> for each goal?  Or just generally?
10:45:43  <Alberth> generally, to create new goals from
10:46:14  <Alberth> maybe it's too complicated
10:46:58  <Alberth> mostly we need to know where to look for a source and a destination of a cargo type
10:47:08  <Alberth> that could be stored in the cargo type itself
10:49:23  <andythenorth> probably just run the same calculation every time a new goal is needed?
10:49:30  <andythenorth> won’t be that frequent, and the map changes
10:50:09  <Alberth> good idea
10:57:21  <andythenorth> not sure what the intention of GSGoal::GoalType is http://nogo.openttd.org/api/1.4.4/classGSGoal.html#298dc2babd69afa3138b040645b67467
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11:04:11  <Alberth> looks like you can add a link to a game element?
11:05:35  <andythenorth> seems so
11:05:41  <andythenorth> not sure exactly what that achieves
11:05:52  <andythenorth> anyway I’ve written ‘foo’ to the goal window :P
11:06:11  <andythenorth> we need a convenient way to have current company in scope
11:06:13  * andythenorth looks
11:06:28  <andythenorth> Global Goals is possibly interesting
11:06:44  <andythenorth> for collaboration
11:08:19  <andythenorth> Zuu seems to keep a list of all companies in NCG
11:09:50  <Alberth> if you give companies goals, that makes sense
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11:23:58  <andythenorth> GoalType seems significant
11:24:00  <andythenorth> hmm
11:24:03  * andythenorth pokes some more
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11:35:45  <andythenorth> Alberth: so assigning goals to companies needs at least one company to exist
11:35:56  <andythenorth> which isn’t true on first run of the GS
11:36:08  <andythenorth> this.Sleep(1) is how frosch handled that
11:36:10  <Alberth> makes sense
11:36:46  <Alberth> eventually we need to make goals in the event loop
11:36:54  <argoneus> good morning train friends
11:37:01  <Alberth> so maybe just skip creation if there is no company?
11:38:02  <andythenorth> I pushed another useless proof of concept
11:38:13  <Alberth> ie in the 'while (true) {  /* try make goal if needed */;   /* do other things. */; sleep(...); }
11:38:24  <andythenorth> there’s plenty of stuff in SV to borrow
11:38:38  <andythenorth> so are our goals per-company or global?
11:38:50  <andythenorth> in MP, if the goals are global, it’s a bit like capture the hill
11:38:56  <andythenorth> first one to win the goal, wins the goal...
11:39:11  <Alberth> not in coop, is it?
11:39:15  <andythenorth> not sur
11:39:16  <andythenorth> sure *
11:39:22  <andythenorth> thinking out loud
11:39:38  <Alberth> company goals would work for coop too
11:40:07  <Alberth> and coop between companies doesn't exist anyway :)
11:40:43  <Alberth> per-company looks like the most useful way to go, imho
11:41:55  <Alberth> no idea if cargo monitoring works per company, I do hope so :)
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12:21:08  <Wolf01> hello o/
12:22:03  <Alberth> moin
12:25:07  <andythenorth> cargo monitoring appears to be per company :)
12:27:05  <Alberth> yay, I was awake enough at the time :)
12:39:20  <Alberth> andythenorth: pushed
12:40:25  <andythenorth> ho
12:40:26  <andythenorth> towns
12:42:05  <andythenorth> when I get an uninterrupted moment, I’ll hook the goals up to goal window
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13:33:34  <__ln__> http://m.ad.nl/ad/m/nl/1014/Bizar/article/detail/3818824/2014/12/27/Met-een-luxe-tanktaxi-veilig-door-Sint-Petersburg.dhtml
13:36:28  <Alberth> 007 style :p
13:57:05  * andythenorth ponders
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14:15:36  <Alberth> andythenorth: pushed  companies getting goals
14:19:56  <andythenorth> Alberth: \o/
14:20:06  <andythenorth> I was about to start on a company storage, you’ve saved me that :)
14:20:17  <Alberth> yw :)
14:24:16  <andythenorth> looking at other GS, we might need a goals storage
14:24:18  <andythenorth> not sure yet
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14:30:55  <andythenorth> Alberth: if I push, are you in the middle of anything that will need merged?
14:31:04  <andythenorth> (main.nut)
14:31:09  <Alberth> no
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14:31:36  <andythenorth> pushed
14:31:43  <andythenorth> goals are created now, in the goals window
14:31:49  <andythenorth> there is a delay while it happens
14:32:13  <Alberth> my code creates one goal / day
14:32:21  <andythenorth> ok that explains it
14:32:30  <Alberth> ie goal_timeout
14:34:09  * andythenorth trying to show the destination in the goals
14:34:21  <andythenorth> FindChallenge returns something that might be what I need?
14:35:40  <Alberth> accept   has a  "town" or "ind"  field
14:36:45  <andythenorth> ok
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14:48:42  <andythenorth> ho single quote versus double quote is signifcant in squirrel :)
14:53:33  <andythenorth> Alberth: goals window now shows destinations
14:53:43  <andythenorth> I’ll see if I can pretty-print the cargo amounts and names
14:53:53  <Alberth> \o/
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15:07:06  * andythenorth wonders where to look for the available string codes http://nogo.openttd.org/api/1.4.4/classGSText.html
15:27:03  <Alberth> eints documentation?
15:27:24  <Alberth> andythenorth:  http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/eints/nightlies/LATEST/docs/
15:37:59  <andythenorth> ta
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15:58:42  <andythenorth> hmm
15:58:50  <andythenorth> stumbling on the string prettifying
16:17:37  <andythenorth> hrm
16:17:45  * andythenorth cargo cults
16:17:47  <andythenorth> 1 << cargo
16:17:56  <andythenorth> as the parameter to string code {CARGO_LIST}
16:18:59  <andythenorth> Alberth: I pushed some prettification
16:19:09  <andythenorth> the cargo amounts have me stuck
16:19:37  <Alberth> {NUM}    or so ?
16:19:57  <andythenorth> yes
16:20:16  <andythenorth> but if we could construct the right structure for the param, I think we can use CARGO_SHORT or such
16:20:21  <andythenorth> frosch does afaict
16:20:41  <andythenorth> we want the correct units, getting them manually will be silly
16:20:46  <Alberth> indeed, CARGO_SHORT looks like the right solution
16:21:29  <andythenorth> the code I’m writing is ugly btw, can sort that out later
16:23:17  <Alberth> pushed preventing duplicate goals for a company
16:26:09  <andythenorth> so much housekeeping :D
16:27:22  <Alberth> should it do that for all companies (as in, never give out the same goal to two or more companies?)
16:30:53  <andythenorth> dunno
16:30:58  <andythenorth> been thinking about that
16:31:16  <andythenorth> if you force only unique goals, might run out of goals on a small map
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16:31:56  <andythenorth> wondering about ‘try hard to prevent companies having duplicate goals, but give up after n tries'
16:32:01  <Alberth> you don't want to play 15 companies at 64x64 :p
16:32:34  <andythenorth> is it easier to allow or disallow right now?
16:33:01  <Alberth> now, I only check within 1 company
16:33:09  <andythenorth> leave it like that then
16:33:13  <andythenorth> less work
16:33:23  <Alberth> so the check should be expanded to all companies
16:33:39  <Alberth> ok, let's leave it for now
16:33:57  <Alberth> someone will complain about it somewhen :)
16:40:26  <andythenorth> v0.5 thing
16:40:55  <andythenorth> what’s next?  Cargo monitor & goal met function?
16:41:32  <Alberth> i guess so
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16:45:27  * andythenorth tidies a bit of dead code
16:45:44  <Alberth> just delete it? :)
16:46:45  <andythenorth> done
16:46:46  <andythenorth> pushed
16:46:51  <Alberth> yay
16:55:11  <Alberth> pushed clicking at a goal
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17:06:53  <glevans2> andythenorth: depending on how long a map is played, is there a point at which you would recycle previously completed goals, or maybe goals that were completed by another company?
17:08:57  <andythenorth> dunno
17:09:01  <andythenorth> they’d be completed
17:09:17  <andythenorth> some might be hard to complete twice, others
not
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17:10:39  <andythenorth> Alberth: neat :)
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17:29:01  <andythenorth> Alberth: {CARGO_LONG} takes two parameter entries
17:29:03  <andythenorth> pushed it
17:29:12  <andythenorth> [cargo, amount]
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17:29:34  <Alberth> nice!
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17:30:25  <andythenorth> oops, pushed a fix :)
17:39:28  <Alberth> feel free to add goal measurement code
17:39:54  <Alberth> I don't want to start doing that tonight
17:52:28  <andythenorth> I might poke at it
17:52:35  <andythenorth> or not
17:52:36  <andythenorth> :)
17:53:00  <andythenorth> so FMainClass::Start is the main loop?
17:54:55  <Alberth> the "while(true)" part at the end
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18:37:38  <Jinassi> Has there been a scenario, where a player would get "Cant insert new orders. No more space for orders" prompt? I have never experienced such thing and had far more vehicles ingame than the player(~1k), who received such message. Still waiting for savegame to see wtf is going on. Sent a link to the forum too.
18:42:44  <Eddi|zuHause> the limit is 256 entries
18:43:17  <Eddi|zuHause> implicit orders may get you there if the route is a bit chaotic
18:44:11  <Eddi|zuHause> the number of vehicles is irrelevant
18:44:19  <Rubidium> or orders aren't shared
18:44:30  <Jinassi> true, I advised on implicit orders too.
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20:42:26  <NGC3982> I guess core2duo works out nicely for OpenTTD?
20:42:42  <Jinassi> splendid
20:43:14  <Jinassi> which one you have?
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20:43:49  <NGC3982> I don't. I'm just browsing for give-aways in the server department
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20:56:00  <Jinassi> Is vehicle parts limit of 65000 still in effect(part of an articulated vehicle (road/rail), 1 rail wagon/engine, the shadow of aircraft, the rotor of helicopters, the smoke from trains, all disaster vehicles)?
20:58:11  <Jinassi> nvm me, found..bad gogle-fu
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21:40:30  <peter1138> core2duo is really ancient
21:42:01  <FLHerne> peter1138: IMO, it's the earliest non-ancient thing
21:42:27  <MTsPony> AMD64 is ancient :p
21:42:40  <FLHerne> Big jump from the P4/PD, and unlike those still actually useful
21:44:15  <FLHerne> Ironlake was incremental, as were IVB and Haswell, so it's only one big step behind old even now
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21:47:58  * Taede still runs core2 duo/quad as main pc's
21:48:40  <Taede> though the laptop is due to be upgraded to an i5-4
21:49:21  <Taede> keeps up fine with most coop games though
21:49:28  <FLHerne> I'm still using my actually-ancient PD desktop
21:49:40  <FLHerne> Looking at Haswell i3s though
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22:02:18  <Jinassi> well if he finds something better than core2duo in write-offs, i do hope he'll take it
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23:20:45  <argoneus> nighty
23:22:11  <Wolf01> night
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