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[~ST2@118.107.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 05:56:18 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC666AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:02:19 *** ST2 [~ST2@118.107.136.95.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:02:19 *** xT2 is now known as ST2 06:03:57 *** guru3-vps [~guru3-vps@109.200.19.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:59 *** guru3-vps [~guru3-vps@109.200.19.187] has joined #openttd 06:15:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6ACE1.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:44:03 *** DDR [~kvirc@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:43:00 <V453000> NOTBUGZ :) 07:44:18 *** Phoenix_the_II [~ralph@13-17-191-195.ftth.glasoperator.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:03:44 <Supercheese> Should put RAWR on here: https://wiki.openttd.org/Playing_with_32_bpp_graphics 08:05:12 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@2a00:6960:1:1:0:24:107:1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:00 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@cybertinus.customer.cloud.nl] has joined #openttd 08:22:01 <V453000> did dat 08:28:41 <Supercheese> :) 08:29:33 <V453000> rawr so famous now 08:30:02 *** Yotson [~Yotson@2001:980:6ac8:1:85b6:e13e:91ca:9cac] has joined #openttd 08:37:39 <ST2> only took a quick look but seems like a real ROOAAARRRR and not a simple "meow" 08:37:44 <ST2> good job V453000 :) 08:38:40 *** TinoDidriksen [~TinoDidri@tinodidriksen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:41:20 <V453000> :) 09:01:53 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-52-10.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 09:08:18 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:20:28 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:26:27 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 09:59:30 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-52-10.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 10:06:34 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 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#openttd 11:49:48 *** dreck [~oftc-webi@bas1-ottawa08-1176110546.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 11:49:51 <dreck> hi 12:32:04 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest3512 12:32:09 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:35:02 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 12:37:33 *** Guest3512 [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:51:14 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:04:43 <supermop> yo 13:05:10 <__ln__> tú 13:05:15 *** dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:06:06 <V453000> Å 13:09:04 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:13 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has joined #openttd 13:12:01 <dreck> hi 13:12:02 <dreck> :) 13:16:30 <supermop> goodnight 13:16:42 <dreck> night? its 08:17 here :) 13:17:08 *** dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has joined #openttd 13:17:16 *** Haube [~Michi@ip25048c11.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #openttd 13:24:34 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-179-139.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:34:28 *** KouDy_ [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:54:04 *** KouDy [~koudy@188.75.190.58] has joined #openttd 14:04:41 *** skrzyp [~skrzyp@2a03:b0c0:2:d0::296:3001] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:54 *** skrzyp [skrzyp@2a03:b0c0:2:d0::296:3001] has joined #openttd 14:09:48 *** Haube1 [~Michi@31.7.58.38] has joined #openttd 14:15:48 *** Haube [~Michi@ip25048c11.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:21:31 *** Haube [~Michi@ip25048c11.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #openttd 14:24:29 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 14:25:02 *** Haube2 [~Michi@31.7.56.242] has joined #openttd 14:25:20 *** Haube1 [~Michi@31.7.58.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:26:10 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has joined #openttd 14:29:33 *** Haube [~Michi@ip25048c11.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:30:33 <dreck> sorry to ask again as I somehow forgot what was mentioned..how much can you change a locomotive through refit before you have to use a separate id for it or doing that weird regearthinge/etc? 14:31:59 <planetmaker> you can change it as much as you want. The question is: what is sensible and do you care about players and their expectation on how autorenew and autoreplace works 14:32:39 <planetmaker> IMHO use a new ID for any change. Refit is for cargo, not for stats 14:33:08 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 14:34:11 <dreck> planetmaker heh yeah I didn't like how NARS (I think thats where it happened but been a while so I might be mixed up) seemingly give you three different locomotives for the same id automatically..and even if you try check the refit window in the depot it still doesn't show you any options 14:34:17 <dreck> that is a bad way to do it in my view anyway ^ 14:35:22 *** liq3 [~liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 14:35:42 <planetmaker> offering refit for different livery, though, why not. That doesn't matter really much :) 14:37:08 <dreck> true that 14:38:22 <dreck> btw you had me there tho..I'll have to check what kind of renew/refit combos wouldn't work as given 14:39:07 <planetmaker> point is: with renew active I expect the vehicle to not change stats (no change of them with time) 14:39:34 <planetmaker> autoreplace doesn't work, if you offer different gearings (or whatever) for the same vehicle. Thus use different IDs for that 14:40:02 <dreck> planetmaker heh you'll hate NARS (again I wish I could remember if it was actually that grf or something else) :) 14:40:12 <planetmaker> I know how nars works, yes 14:40:19 <planetmaker> and yes, it does all that 14:40:39 <dreck> eg buy one steam locomotive in 1920 ...then in 1934 you get something different even although the refit window is EMPTY .. that is the dumbest way to do it in my view like I was saying already :) 14:41:03 <dreck> but anyway .. yeah livery refits - who cares as its only cosmetic :) 14:41:16 <planetmaker> and cargo of course :) 14:41:25 <dreck> I'll admit I do kinda like the idea of a grf letting you choose between automatic and manual liveries tho 14:41:41 <dreck> eg canset lets you pick between CN and CP paintstyle on earlier passenger trains yourself 14:42:03 <planetmaker> make the default livery (subtype0) choose random(=automatic) and choose subtypes 1...n for manual selection 14:42:10 <dreck> that indeed ^ 14:42:58 <andythenorth> canset doesnât let you do anything any more 14:43:09 <dreck> oh yeah and the newish SBB set also lets you either see mixed freight wagons or to set the whole thing to one single livery (but you can't choose which one..ah well) 14:43:41 <planetmaker> it's open-source. Get it, fix it, provide patch :) 14:43:58 <dreck> :p 14:44:02 <planetmaker> I'm sure dandan wouldn't mind 14:45:20 <dreck> anyway ty either way .. back to a little more spreadsheeting then have to see someone for a while :-> 14:46:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:03:12 *** berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 15:57:07 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:58:53 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 16:03:52 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:03:55 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 16:11:05 <dreck> back 16:20:14 *** quorzom [~quorzom@cable-78-35-98-177.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 16:24:30 <dreck> hmm planetmaker I just remembered one other reason I wanted poke around with the refit's limits... 16:24:54 <dreck> kinda wondering if smoke plume has to come from same spot all the times or a cosmetic refit could make it come from a different spot :) 16:31:25 <planetmaker> hu? 16:31:50 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a smoke callback that lets you do all kinds of fancy stuff in 1.5 16:32:05 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if it's already in 1.4 16:32:20 <Eddi|zuHause> may be called "effect vehicle" or something 16:32:40 <planetmaker> yes, there is. I just wonder why that would need a refit 16:33:09 <planetmaker> Train engines are not sports cars where people tune their exhaust pipe for moar sound and compensation of their missing male parts 16:35:07 <dreck> planetmaker ROFL .. well tbh it would look weird if a locomotive was smoking from the cab instead of from where the engine actually is another 10 pixels further back :) 16:35:34 <dreck> but anyway ty to you two 16:36:01 <dreck> I'll think about livery/smoke refit versus dupliciating the loco id just to fit the different body styles 16:37:04 <planetmaker> well, sure, it's just cosmetics... it's like a different paint 16:38:23 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 16:38:26 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 16:52:30 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@88.130.171.175] has joined #openttd 17:02:05 *** dreck [~oftc-webi@bas1-ottawa08-1176110546.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [] 17:13:07 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 17:25:38 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:25:41 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 17:30:37 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 17:30:41 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 17:38:43 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:43:44 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:49:50 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:51:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:53:43 *** Taede [~T@neuron.nurionis.co.uk] has quit [Quit: He who can look into the future, has a brighter future to look into] 17:54:25 *** Taede [~T@neuron.nurionis.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:58:35 <andythenorth> Alberth: the total combinations of states for industry open / close is quite complex :) 17:58:51 <Alberth> hi hi 17:59:07 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:59:07 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:59:07 <andythenorth> he wants the game to build at map gen time, but not during gameplay, but player can build 17:59:24 <andythenorth> there are two OTTD settings to also account for :P 17:59:38 <Alberth> you need enough settings to confuse everybody :) 18:00:29 <Alberth> hmm, very tricky, perhaps if you can change the industry gen setting through the console, it could work 18:00:46 <Alberth> but that's pretty much unexaplainable 18:01:57 <andythenorth> it could be done in FIRS, I just have no inclination to do it :) 18:03:13 <planetmaker> hi hi 18:03:36 <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly is the complexity? "Industry over time: open&close|open|static" 18:03:41 <planetmaker> indeed a setting like "don't close / open industries" makes sense from a scenario POV. Without newgrf interference 18:04:25 <Alberth> in the new mapgen window perhaps 18:05:13 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: open isnât a single state 18:05:17 <andythenorth> player open 18:05:19 <andythenorth> GS open 18:05:23 <andythenorth> random open 18:05:27 <andythenorth> player & random open 18:05:30 <andythenorth> player & GS open 18:05:35 <andythenorth> etc blah 18:05:38 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1814D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:05:40 <planetmaker> bitmask of open states :) 18:05:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that's nonsense. only the "random open" needs a setting 18:05:53 <andythenorth> also they seem to want control over primary and secondary 18:05:56 <andythenorth> probably 18:06:38 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f74624c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'm assuming you forbid random opening, but permit player opening through setting the appearance chances to 0 18:08:40 <Eddi|zuHause> there are already separate appearance chances for game creation and gameplay, so you don't have to special case that 18:10:13 <andythenorth> plausible 18:11:42 <Eddi|zuHause> "Industry over time: industries randomly open&close | industries randomly open, but never close | industries open through funding only, and never close" 18:12:32 <andythenorth> thatâs just the FIRS state 18:12:46 <andythenorth> There are also two OTTD settings to consider 18:12:59 <Eddi|zuHause> why would you? 18:13:30 <andythenorth> maybe I wouldnât 18:13:46 <andythenorth> but seems like there are a lot of bug reports on this 18:13:51 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the harm if they say "industries can only be funded" and also set primary funding to disabled? 18:13:56 <andythenorth> otoh other people seem to answer the bug reports, not me 18:14:07 <andythenorth> I usually ignore anything to do with this stuff in FIRS 18:14:43 <andythenorth> your list also needs âindustries never openâ 18:15:21 <Eddi|zuHause> what for? 18:15:32 <andythenorth> because features may not be removed 18:15:40 <Eddi|zuHause> just make them really really expensive :p 18:15:45 <andythenorth> FIRS already provides âno opening' 18:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not "remove a feature", it's "change the semantics of the feature" 18:16:19 * andythenorth plots Lumberjack 18:16:25 <andythenorth> new set, new rules 18:16:33 <Eddi|zuHause> ? 18:16:38 <andythenorth> FIRS 2 18:16:45 <Eddi|zuHause> ? 18:16:51 <andythenorth> remove the broken 18:17:11 <andythenorth> closer to original TTD 18:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't follow... 18:18:09 <Eddi|zuHause> use more words 18:18:32 <andythenorth> to make major changes to the set, demands a new version 18:18:46 <andythenorth> the new version is an opportunity to remove most of the bad features 18:18:55 <andythenorth> and inevitably, invent new bad features 18:19:08 <Eddi|zuHause> and how is this a "major change"? 18:19:14 <andythenorth> removing a player feature? 18:19:46 <andythenorth> removal of the âPrevent industries opening during gameplayâ param 18:20:02 <andythenorth> in favour of new options, or just remove it totally 18:20:44 <andythenorth> if I do that in FIRS, someone is going to pop up and whine about it 18:23:19 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, if you make irrational roundhouse kicks to get rid of features you're annoyed to fix, people will whine 18:25:49 *** kais58 is now known as kais58|AFK 18:25:55 *** Pensacola [~quassel@c80094.upc-c.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:59 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58 18:26:43 <frosch123> V453000: if you want a third opinion, press ctrl+b. then you have 3 alignemnts: zbase, rawr, ottd 18:27:29 <Alberth> it's a myth that you will have enough options, people will always find new combinations that you didn't implement 18:28:44 <V453000> right sooo 18:28:52 <V453000> align to bounding boxes I assume 18:29:28 <frosch123> likely they are all wrong :) zbase, rawr, bounding boxes, 1x sprites :) 18:30:06 <V453000> XD 18:30:11 <V453000> even bounding boxes are ronk? 18:30:39 <frosch123> you can only trust them +-1 pixel or so 18:31:14 <frosch123> other than that, we should define sane offsets, and then fix zbase and/or rawr 18:31:15 <V453000> well I guess it is the most solid convention to align to 18:31:29 <frosch123> using different offsets will hurt all non-basesets like yeti 18:31:33 <planetmaker> <frosch123> other than that, we should define sane offsets, and then fix zbase and/or rawr <-- definitely :) 18:31:42 <V453000> well I can fix yeti easily :) 18:32:03 <planetmaker> we can fix all those "easily". It's just... still lots of work ;) 18:32:29 <V453000> and since there arent really any other serious 32bpp newGRFs with land/building/industry tiles, setting up something good would be great 18:32:34 <V453000> earlier better :) 18:32:54 <frosch123> V453000: dou you have some plain ground sprites? i.e. just the shape with no texture? 18:33:03 <V453000> sure, the masks 18:33:05 <V453000> even in the rep 18:33:06 <V453000> o 18:33:27 <frosch123> ok, maybe i try to align them vs. ottd internals, then we can add them to newgrf specs wiki 18:33:44 <V453000> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/rawr/repository/show/POSTPRODUCTION/tile_masks 18:34:07 <V453000> I would greatly appreciate that 18:34:24 <V453000> it is one of the things I am very WTF about since the beginning 18:34:30 <planetmaker> probably a good idea 18:35:02 *** lobstar [~mccrabbym@94.231.249.233] has quit [Quit: IMMAH QUIT MA LAZ-] 18:35:03 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:35:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the alignment point should be the top corner 18:35:35 <V453000> define point in pixels xD 18:35:44 <frosch123> yes, but that definition also has only a precision of +-1 pixel :) 18:35:56 <V453000> ^ 18:36:03 <frosch123> wow, only 5 minutes to clone 18:36:07 <frosch123> i expected hours 18:36:17 * andythenorth wonders what Lumberjack should keep or bin from FIRS 18:36:27 <V453000> nah rawr is small :) 600mb or so 18:36:44 <andythenorth> secondary industry combining cargos for more output? Keep? 18:36:55 <andythenorth> kind of annoys me 18:37:13 <frosch123> it's a reward 18:37:29 <frosch123> rewards are a good feature, aren't they? 18:37:43 <andythenorth> probly 18:37:51 <andythenorth> 30 days is quite short 18:37:56 <V453000> frosch123: NUTS is pushing for 4 hours already :P 18:37:57 <andythenorth> mitigates against long routes 18:38:46 <andythenorth> supplies: been discussed to death, no convincing better idea proposed. Keep? 18:38:47 <frosch123> V453000: yeti is the reason i enabled the "progress" extension :p 18:38:57 <V453000> XD progress extension? 18:39:16 <frosch123> makes hg display how much it has done, instead of staying silent for hours 18:39:31 <frosch123> no idea how to do that with tortoisehg, if you are using that 18:39:47 <V453000> xd 18:40:10 <andythenorth> industry date restrictions: remove 18:40:20 <planetmaker> thg probably comes with progress enabled 18:41:10 <V453000> yeah I think there are progress bars and info about everywhere 18:41:15 <V453000> handy for my actions. :D 18:41:32 <V453000> 311/387 :) over 75% done 18:41:52 <andythenorth> station rating hax: remove 18:42:07 <planetmaker> though thg doesn't use necessarily hg's command server but its internal API at times 18:42:12 <V453000> yeah that one is also nasty andy 18:42:34 <frosch123> andythenorth: make it a separate grf :) 18:42:46 <andythenorth> water industry max coast distance? Keep? 18:43:20 <frosch123> what are water industries? 18:43:26 <frosch123> i assume not harbors :) 18:43:35 <andythenorth> oil rigs and such 18:43:35 <V453000> SLUG MERCHANTS 18:43:37 <frosch123> fishing grounds? 18:43:39 <andythenorth> yeah 18:43:52 <andythenorth> itâs hax so they can be served by trains 18:43:56 <V453000> rigs, fishing grounds, dredging site? 18:44:00 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 18:44:04 <V453000> yeah it is a nice feature andy 18:44:06 <V453000> keep that 18:44:11 <frosch123> keep, gives a usecase for ships 18:44:23 <frosch123> i like transfers, and hate station walking, so easy choice for me 18:44:45 <andythenorth> itâs mostly there so you can build a train station next to your fishing grounds 18:46:57 <andythenorth> clustering, we like? 18:47:08 <V453000> NO. 18:47:11 <V453000> I for one, not one bit 18:47:22 <V453000> it would at least be nice if it would not be pure clustering 18:47:33 <V453000> like if there was at least some chance to have some stray industries away from the cluster 18:48:03 <andythenorth> fewer industries per cluster, higher production 18:48:52 <andythenorth> ? 18:49:37 <planetmaker> sounds like a fundamental issue to decide before a set is started ;) 18:49:53 <andythenorth> kind of wondering about having a design 18:50:01 <andythenorth> designs are apparently good :P 18:50:38 <andythenorth> also goals 18:51:01 <andythenorth> âFIRS annoys meâ is not much a good reason for a new one 18:51:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i love clustering 18:51:10 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C37FF.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:52:02 <planetmaker> clustering is the only nice, unique and obvious industry placement rule I've seen other than TTD original 18:52:12 <Eddi|zuHause> also, if station rating could be made as independent GRF would be cool 18:52:40 <andythenorth> someone should just extract that from FIRS 18:53:23 *** shirish [~quassel@117.202.207.166] has joined #openttd 18:55:45 <andythenorth> clustering just needs optimising 18:55:50 <andythenorth> per map size, per economy 18:56:10 <V453000> some clustering perhaps, keep, but I would really like if it would be less strict 18:56:16 <V453000> e.g. now you can find farms ONLY in huge clusters 18:56:35 <andythenorth> I think thatâs a bug 18:56:46 <V453000> well it works that way with kind of everything 18:57:12 <V453000> farms are probably easier to see because they are in higher numbers 18:57:35 <andythenorth> I think it fails to account for map size correctly 18:57:44 <andythenorth> and for number of industry types in economy 18:58:28 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 18:58:42 <planetmaker> I'm not convinced that there's any bug in farm amount for map size 18:59:01 <planetmaker> they're small output industries, thus come in a handful at once. 18:59:21 <planetmaker> And the clusters are scaled by map size appropriately last time I checked that code 18:59:44 <andythenorth> there is something amiss somewhere 18:59:49 <andythenorth> notably in the smaller economies 19:00:06 <andythenorth> perhaps there needs to be a max cluster size, but thatâs hard to enforce 19:02:37 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:56 <andythenorth> I prefer clusters of 3 or so farms 19:03:10 <andythenorth> more than that becomes an overwhelming number of feeders 19:03:14 <Eddi|zuHause> no, just have a useful average cluster size (as in (predicted number of industry)/(number of 'seed' industries)) 19:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause> also, maybe try to cluster same farm types together, not different farm types 19:04:07 <andythenorth> it does only cluster same types currently 19:04:23 <Eddi|zuHause> a wheat farm next to an animal farm kinda makes for bad feeders 19:04:26 <andythenorth> but thereâs nothing to avoid overlapping cluster of other types 19:04:33 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe my map just was too small 19:04:35 <andythenorth> this is a good point 19:04:49 <andythenorth> overlapping other types increases the annoyance with delivering supplies 19:05:46 <Eddi|zuHause> larger minimum distance between farms maybe, to spread out the clusters a bit 19:06:37 <andythenorth> +1 19:08:11 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, firs clusters currently are farm mono-cultures 19:09:44 <andythenorth> maybe a GS should build them :P 19:09:49 <andythenorth> for fine-grained control 19:10:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see that working well 19:11:00 <andythenorth> I donât see it adding much beyond whatâs already possible, if newgrf handles it carefully 19:11:32 <andythenorth> I do think farms need higher base production 19:11:46 <andythenorth> the original case was âandythenorth doesnât like long queues of trucks at every farm" 19:11:57 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe not base production, but boosted production 19:12:00 <andythenorth> with the intention also of adding a truck set with 15t trucks (realisms) 19:16:16 <andythenorth> bogus case 19:16:48 *** berndj [~berndj@azna.co.za] has joined #openttd 19:16:49 <andythenorth> farm production should be ~similar to mines and such 19:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> ... there is cat 19:21:09 <andythenorth> at last 19:21:13 <andythenorth> mystery solved 19:26:02 <andythenorth> was there any conclusion on delivering cargo to more than one industry in a station catchment? 19:26:10 <andythenorth> iirc, it was ânah, thatâs cheatingâ? 19:26:44 <Eddi|zuHause> that was almost certainly not it 19:29:03 <frosch123> there was a "will be fixed along catchment area" :p 19:30:02 <andythenorth> itâs relevant w.r.t clustering 19:30:10 <andythenorth> and what min. distance to enforce in a cluster 19:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> it probably won't happen in the near future 19:31:58 <andythenorth> probably worth pushing up min distance within a cluster then 19:33:06 <andythenorth> cases like this are silly http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7040/silly.png 19:33:20 <andythenorth> the RV is just enforcing round-robin supplies 19:40:38 <V453000> I dont see any rawr there andythenorth :P 19:41:21 <andythenorth> eNoRAWR 19:49:45 <andythenorth> renaming water-industry stations? o_O 19:49:48 <andythenorth> apparently 19:53:42 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing that should concern you at all 20:02:36 <andythenorth> seems to be just how the game works 20:07:22 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:09:54 <andythenorth> is there a hotkey for âno loadingâ when setting orders? 20:10:00 <andythenorth> similar to ctrl for âfull load' 20:11:11 *** dreck [~oftc-webi@bas1-ottawa08-1176110546.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #openttd 20:11:16 <dreck> hi 20:11:50 <dreck> just wanted to check with someone but what is settings_newgame even used for at all? 20:12:56 *** Yexo [~Yexo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:12:56 *** Osai [~Osai@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:14:31 <frosch123> you can configure settings while a game is running, and then start a new one 20:14:56 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:15:27 *** luaduck is now known as luaduck_zzz 20:15:28 <andythenorth> I use it very often 20:15:34 <andythenorth> for newgrf purposes 20:15:43 *** Hazzard [~Hazzard@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:15:43 *** Ammler [~ammler@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:15:58 *** V453000 [~V453000@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:03 *** SmatZ [~smatz@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:13 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@000128e4.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:14 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:14 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:16 *** tneo [~tneo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:19 *** planetmaker [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:28 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@0001612d.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:31 *** avdg [~avdg@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:51 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.205.148.225.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #openttd 20:18:21 <dreck> well I'm wondering if rcon can be broken by something then because rcon settings errors about not being able to do that in network games .. but settings_newgame gets wiped out as soon as the actual new game loads apparently (or thats what I seem to be getting from short talk with ngc) 20:18:33 <dreck> or maybe it just wasn't meant for that..I dunno...still looking 20:19:30 <frosch123> there are conflicting settings 20:19:41 <frosch123> e.g reloading-cfg-from-disk-on-newgame will revert it 20:19:51 <frosch123> and loading a scenario or savegame will also not care about it 20:22:58 <andythenorth> maybe I donât use that setting :P 20:23:07 <andythenorth> maybe I misunderstood again :) 20:23:36 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 20:24:50 <andythenorth> hmm FIRS Brickworks using wrong ext text 20:24:52 <andythenorth> extra * 20:25:16 <andythenorth> code looks correct afaict 20:25:19 <andythenorth> bad compile? 20:26:16 <dreck> frosch ah now that does make a bit more sense of things.. reloading old cfg in new game ... not sure why I didn't read any tidbits about that 20:26:24 <dreck> thanks, I guess I'll let him know about that too 20:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: first thing to check is that you're actually testing the right compile 20:29:44 <dreck> hm well one quick related question if you don't mind .. is 'rcon settings' (as in for the current game) supposed to be limited in its actual useage or thats up to the particular setup of openttd itself? 20:30:23 <andythenorth> first thing is to find a charger, out of battery 20:30:28 <frosch123> some settings cannot be changed in a running game 20:30:32 <Eddi|zuHause> dreck: some settings are limited by the game logic 20:30:46 <dreck> I assume bridge length would be one of these? :) 20:30:48 <frosch123> multiplayer is somewhat more strict than singleplayer 20:31:02 <frosch123> anyway, it will tell you if it is not allowed 20:31:02 <dreck> thanks for confirming it anyway ^ :) 20:31:24 <dreck> at least I don't have to pester ngc on all things..I still can pause the game and whatsnot 20:31:42 *** ^ekipS^ [~spike@178-84-172-114.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #openttd 20:32:17 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host44-14-dynamic.31-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 20:33:58 <Wolf01> hi o/ 20:34:04 <dreck> hi wolf? :) 20:34:11 <andythenorth> Wolf01: youâve been to EB today? 20:34:16 <andythenorth> Nuremberg pictures 20:34:20 <Wolf01> yeah 20:34:27 <Wolf01> the new mercedes will be mine! 20:34:40 <andythenorth> so is the digger any good? 20:34:42 <andythenorth> also 20:35:22 <Wolf01> yes, it's really cool, not much time to play with but is really pleasant to build and see 20:35:37 <Wolf01> (if you meant the volvo) 20:35:52 <andythenorth> yes 20:36:43 <Wolf01> the new servo motor is wonderful, it has an auto-center feature so you won't get mad with the steering 20:38:27 <andythenorth> yeah, I have one :) https://www.flickr.com/photos/andythenorth/16162803761/ 20:41:16 <Wolf01> I purchased the "ultra agents mobile base" too (the one with the truck), I found it at the mall with 30⬠discount (â¬69 instead of â¬99) :O 20:41:24 <Wolf01> more pieces for MOCs :P 20:42:43 <andythenorth> my kids have started unMOCing 20:42:48 <andythenorth> they just break everything :P 20:42:53 <Wolf01> ahah 20:46:12 <andythenorth> is it possible that nml is mangling strings? 20:46:23 <andythenorth> Iâve triple-checked FIRS code 20:46:55 <Eddi|zuHause> nml is doing all sorts of things to strings 20:47:04 <dreck> :-> 20:47:21 <Eddi|zuHause> if you think it's a bug, report it. 20:47:48 <andythenorth> want to rule out user error first 20:49:26 <Eddi|zuHause> if you think it's an nml bug, try different versions of nml 20:52:15 <andythenorth> itâs user error 20:53:04 <andythenorth> multiple industries share same ID (Iâve run out of IDs) 20:53:10 <andythenorth> thought that would work, but doesnât 20:54:34 <andythenorth> FIRS really needs rewritten 20:54:51 <andythenorth> Iâm chasing my tail, adding things introduces bugs 20:55:50 <andythenorth> would it be better to have one grf per economy? 20:56:18 <peter1138> Have one grf but universe. 20:57:00 <andythenorth> sounds like a lyric, maybe bowie 20:57:04 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:57:14 <peter1138> Yeah... per... not but... 20:58:25 <andythenorth> one grf for all trains, boats, industries and crap? o_O 20:58:31 <Eddi|zuHause> bowie sang about grfs? 20:58:33 <andythenorth> just call it grf 20:58:55 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: sharing IDs is probably easy, if designed correctly 20:59:12 <andythenorth> needs wrapping up in action 6 or whatever it is that nml is hiding from me 20:59:14 *** Dawnkeeper [~Dawnkeepe@dslb-178-012-022-032.178.012.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #openttd 20:59:19 <andythenorth> the entire industry probably 20:59:56 <Eddi|zuHause> if you use old-style callbacks, you can just add a switch before the callback switch that checks the economy 21:01:28 <andythenorth> good point 21:02:13 <andythenorth> I am concerned about growth in compile times from wrapping too many things in âif economy == xâ 21:03:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't have a lot of effect on compile time. but you cannot wrap callbacks in if-blocks 21:03:57 <Dawnkeeper> is it just me or is the service interval in percent used the other way around as it is described? 21:05:17 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: :o I didnât know that cbs couldnât be wrapped 21:05:27 <andythenorth> that forces a change of approach 21:05:44 *** Mek_ [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has joined #openttd 21:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> like i said, if you use old-style callbacks, a simple switch will do, otherwise you need to replicate the switch for each callback 21:06:44 <Eddi|zuHause> which should be easy if you use a code generator :) 21:06:55 <andythenorth> my plan is to use a code generator 21:07:23 *** Nothing4You [N4Y@nothing4you.w.tf-w.tf] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:08:09 <andythenorth> my plan was also to assign industry and cargo ids per economy, or rather, not worry about assigning them at all, just use the order in python step of compile 21:08:37 <andythenorth> managing IDs is pointless, machine can do that 21:09:27 <Eddi|zuHause> managing IDs is what you need if you want the chance to upgrade during the game 21:09:33 <andythenorth> I donât 21:09:41 *** Nothing4You [~N4Y@nothing4you.w.tf-w.tf] has joined #openttd 21:09:52 <andythenorth> or rather, Iâm prepared to bump min. savegame version frequently 21:10:13 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:10:24 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "frequently" would be "every single compile" 21:10:41 <andythenorth> you donât trust the order of a python list? 21:10:54 <andythenorth> I thought they were deteministic? 21:11:02 <andythenorth> deterministic * 21:11:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know how you use it... 21:11:42 <andythenorth> list of industries (or cargos) 21:11:48 <andythenorth> take the id from position in list 21:13:16 <Eddi|zuHause> but we're talking about an algorithm that merges industries/cargos which are never part of the same economy 21:13:46 <andythenorth> list would be per economy 21:13:53 <Eddi|zuHause> which may be unstable 21:13:59 <andythenorth> cargo / industry ids might be totally different per economy 21:14:14 <andythenorth> dunno, thereâs probably something I havenât thought of that makes it unworkable 21:14:24 *** Mek_ [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:29 *** planetmaker [~pmfreenod@dslb-178-003-128-076.178.003.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #openttd 21:14:32 *** mode/#openttd [+o planetmaker] by ChanServ 21:14:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i feel like the same cargo should get the same ID regardless of economy 21:14:42 <andythenorth> any reason? 21:15:30 <Eddi|zuHause> internal handling stuff, that i won't bother to look up now 21:16:25 <andythenorth> in some respects, it would be much simpler to generate one grf per economy 21:16:33 <andythenorth> also faster compile 21:16:48 <andythenorth> worse for players? 21:18:26 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it matters for players. i didn't do it in CETS because loads of things would be duplicated, but that's less of an issue for industry sets, because you can only load one of them simultaneously 21:19:53 <andythenorth> makes release management harder 21:19:57 <andythenorth> more bananas work 21:20:16 <Eddi|zuHause> bananas work can be automatted 21:20:38 <planetmaker> silicon valley has a make bananas target ;) 21:21:27 <andythenorth> Choosing basic economy automatically against chosen climate would be tricky :) 21:22:06 <andythenorth> but eh 21:22:13 <andythenorth> itâs worth considering 21:22:24 <andythenorth> the code generation than needs doing is about same either way 21:22:41 <andythenorth> fewer industries should mean faster compile for any single grf 21:22:57 <andythenorth> and fewer unexpected problems due to overlapping IDs 21:23:00 <planetmaker> and fixing 5 newgrfs for a single bug ;) 21:23:06 <andythenorth> :( 21:23:22 <planetmaker> I can tell you about that very well from OpenGFX* 21:23:26 <planetmaker> Damn well annoying 21:24:58 <andythenorth> I had missed that action 7 canât skip action 2s 21:25:07 <andythenorth> that does bork my plan :P 21:25:33 <andythenorth> I was considering generating entire economy: cargos, industries, wrapped in an action 7 21:25:46 <Eddi|zuHause> you can implement in nmlc that if-blocks on callbacks get converted to switch blocks 21:26:10 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause> needs collecting all graphics blocks with their nested if-conditions, and combining them into one switch that is called from the action3 21:27:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be possible 21:28:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:32:51 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 21:33:45 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has joined #openttd 21:46:55 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:43 *** Mek [~quassel@marijnalexwedding.com] has joined #openttd 21:55:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:59:22 *** Hazzard [~Hazzard@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:59:48 *** SmatZ [~smatz@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 21:59:52 *** ^Spike^ [~Spike@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:00:29 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C37FF.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 22:00:49 *** Terkhen [~Terkhen@0001612d.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:00:49 *** V453000 [~V453000@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:00:52 *** mode/#openttd [+o Terkhen] by ChanServ 22:01:17 *** ^ekipS^ [~spike@178-84-172-114.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 22:01:21 *** avdg [~avdg@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:01:21 *** Yexo [~Yexo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:01:34 *** pm [~planetmak@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:01:37 *** mode/#openttd [+o pm] by ChanServ 22:02:16 *** XeryusTC [~XeryusTC@000128e4.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:02:21 *** tneo [~tneo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:02:59 <dreck> that sorta reminds me..is cargo/industry still set to 37 ids? 22:03:02 *** deniz1a [~kvirc@78.181.159.97] has joined #openttd 22:03:09 *** planetmaker [~pmfreenod@dslb-178-003-128-076.178.003.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:03:09 *** pm is now known as planetmaker 22:03:17 *** Hirundo [~Hirundo@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:03:21 *** fonsinchen [~fonsinche@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:03:37 <deniz1a> can you install different versions of openttd at the same time? 22:03:43 <frosch123> 32 cargo, 64 industries 22:03:52 *** Ammler [~ammler@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:03:59 <frosch123> deniz1a: yes, don't use the installer, but extract the zip to a different folder 22:04:00 <deniz1a> do i have to uninstall 1.4 to test 1.5? 22:04:19 *** Osai [~Osai@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 22:04:24 <frosch123> the installer will replace an existing installation afaik, so use the zip 22:04:35 <deniz1a> ok. but does it use the same game settings folder etc that are stored in my documents? 22:04:46 <frosch123> by default yes 22:05:32 <deniz1a> ok, thanks 22:06:21 <dreck> ah mm has it been at 64 for quite a while or more or less just recently? 22:06:26 <Wolf01> deniz1a: you can make a stand alone installation by copying the openttd.cfg and the other files in the folder you extracted the zip 22:06:35 <dreck> but thanks..I wasn't going to use more than 20 cargos..nice to know that still 22:06:42 <frosch123> dreck: it has been always those limits in ottd 22:06:48 <Wolf01> it's also portable, you can have it in a thumb drive 22:06:52 <dreck> right, cheers 22:06:57 <frosch123> ttdp has 37 industry limit or similar odd number 22:07:17 <frosch123> the wiki knows it more precise 22:07:18 <planetmaker> that's a pretty weired one :) 22:07:29 <frosch123> it's the amount of original industries of all climates 22:07:43 <frosch123> ttdp was unable to extent the number, so just overwrites existing ones 22:07:46 <planetmaker> still :) 22:07:51 <dreck> mm, yeah I guess I'll look into the actions for industry selection then when that time eventually comes..cheers :) 22:08:16 *** deniz1a [~kvirc@78.181.159.97] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:15:24 *** Dawnkeeper [~Dawnkeepe@dslb-178-012-022-032.178.012.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [] 22:17:31 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:17:33 <Wolf01> 'night 22:17:38 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:20:38 *** Haube [~Michi@31.7.56.242] has joined #openttd 22:24:38 *** Haube2 [~Michi@31.7.56.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:27:50 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@2601:9:1180:237:f16d:3c7a:3ff5:b6bc] has joined #openttd 22:37:55 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@D97BA869.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:12 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@D97BA869.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 22:42:53 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 22:45:04 *** shirish [~quassel@117.202.207.166] has joined #openttd 22:45:57 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.202.207.166] has joined #openttd 22:59:16 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- It'll be on slashdot one day...] 23:11:58 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.202.207.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:15 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 23:18:03 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-5f74624c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 23:24:22 *** Pereba [~UserNick@177.205.148.225.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by beer (www.adiirc.com)] 23:30:43 *** zooks [~zooks@27-33-174-193.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:31:01 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@2601:9:1180:237:f16d:3c7a:3ff5:b6bc] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:32:49 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1814D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:04 *** Haube [~Michi@31.7.56.242] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:31 *** itsatacoshop247 [~itsatacos@2601:9:1180:237:b846:c1da:4aca:e0c7] has joined #openttd 23:47:21 *** dreck [~oftc-webi@bas1-ottawa08-1176110546.dsl.bell.ca] has left #openttd [] 23:56:18 *** zooks [~zooks@27-33-174-193.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving]