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Connection reset by peer] 01:55:28 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:58:18 <Supercheese> Hmm, I can't see your most recent attachments, supermop 01:58:27 <Supercheese> weird 01:58:36 <supermop> im re-uploading cropped ones 1 sec 01:58:58 <Supercheese> ok 02:02:34 <supermop> try now 02:03:06 <supermop> oops missed one 02:03:57 <supermop> ok 02:05:05 <supermop> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1144928#p1144928 02:05:53 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@10.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:28 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 02:14:55 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:15:31 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:20:40 *** Flygon [~Flygon@1.44.190.111] has joined #openttd 02:26:00 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@1.44.191.10] has quit 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[~oftc-webi@adsl-68-123-205-72.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has joined #openttd 05:29:48 <supermop> yeah? 05:39:35 *** DDR [~david@S010600254bbe4e1c.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:41:29 *** lobstar [~mccrabbym@94.231.249.233] has joined #openttd 05:45:00 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 05:47:40 *** lobster [~mccrabbym@94.231.249.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:54:02 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD468A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5DC66599.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 06:35:30 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-202-74.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:47:50 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-202-74.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 07:26:09 <juzza1> supermop: have you tried those in-game? the tile edges don't look pixel precise, which might lead to visible edges between road pieces 07:26:29 <juzza1> could be something worth considering in the early stages if you want them to look perfect 07:27:12 <supermop> ive not coded anything 07:27:28 <supermop> but i was assuming i would do further masking in PS on the edges 07:27:37 <juzza1> ok 07:27:49 <supermop> that or underlay a groundsprite or something 07:27:55 <supermop> whatever is easiest 07:30:04 <supermop> one way, DNE, and roadworks sprites are all still missing too 07:30:34 <supermop> but i'd prefer to get something that looks bad in game first then refine while discussing with a coder 07:54:25 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-5d85ef76.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 07:58:44 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:02:30 *** Celestar [~Celestar@mnch-5d85ef76.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:13:19 *** Celestar 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reset by peer] 09:42:50 *** tycoondemon [~ashnohoe@D97BA869.cm-3-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 10:11:11 *** GriffinOneTwo [~oftc-webi@adsl-68-123-205-72.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:12:32 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 10:19:00 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@71.12.36.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:19:20 <Celestar> good morning 10:19:59 <supermop> yo 10:20:19 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@71.12.36.79] has joined #openttd 10:28:28 *** supermop_ [~supermop@d110-33-187-164.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:34:25 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-177-242.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:35:30 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-235-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 10:42:36 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:44:48 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:44:51 *** mode/#openttd 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[~CrackedP0@rrcs-74-87-156-194.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 15:54:56 <Xaroth|Work> sometimes C annoys me beyond belief 16:14:48 <UukGoblin> use C++! :-] 16:15:23 <UukGoblin> can I order an aircraft to full load passengers but take only as much mail as there is? 16:16:48 <UukGoblin> Ideally I'd refit it to passengers-only, but that doesn't seem possible :-/ 16:18:19 <UukGoblin> on another note, airports don't seem to work too well for beginning-phase moneymaking in FIRS 16:18:39 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 16:18:42 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 16:19:41 <UukGoblin> I built 2 airports in Yeen and in White Harbor (in the "A Song of Ice and Fire" scenario), and got 5 aircraft, and they've not paid themselves out in 5 years 16:19:56 <UukGoblin> and I'm actually in more debt than I was 16:20:03 <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: for aircraft, "full load" means passengers 16:20:11 <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, ah, cool, thanks 16:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> or, "full load any" 16:20:44 <UukGoblin> yeah, "any" I think 16:21:01 <UukGoblin> (although I have a feeling that if there was a lot of mail waiting it'd take the mail and leave with non-full passengers... let's see) 16:21:37 <Eddi|zuHause> no, this is a special rule 16:21:42 <UukGoblin> kk 16:21:46 <Alberth> moin 16:21:51 *** CrackedP0t [~CrackedP0@rrcs-74-87-156-194.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:22:53 <UukGoblin> yeah these planes definitely won't pay themselves off 16:25:58 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:26:03 <Xaroth|Work> UukGoblin: works a bit hard if you're trying to cffi into a kernel module 16:26:46 <UukGoblin> oh, you're hacking the kernel :-S 16:26:56 <Xaroth|Work> not really trying to hack into it 16:26:59 <Xaroth|Work> trying to get data from it 16:27:14 <Xaroth|Work> .. into python 16:27:37 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:27:52 <Alberth> sell some of the aircraft 16:28:14 <UukGoblin> moin Alberth :-) I restarted, thinking of an alternative strategy 16:28:27 <UukGoblin> with 2 or 3 airplanes it'd take even longer to get any decent money 16:28:40 <UukGoblin> Xaroth|Work, so, what's so annoying about C? :-) 16:29:45 <Xaroth|Work> UukGoblin: ever tried cffi? :P 16:30:09 <UukGoblin> no, I don't do python ;-) 16:30:09 <Xaroth|Work> trying to get access to libzfs, without having to manually define what libzfs does 16:30:25 <Xaroth|Work> so, normally, you'd just #include <libzfs.h> 16:30:37 <Xaroth|Work> with python's cffi.. a bit different 16:30:42 <UukGoblin> hmm 16:30:48 <UukGoblin> yeah, I imagine 16:31:10 <UukGoblin> you've got to effectively interface one with the other manually 16:31:14 <UukGoblin> (I guess) 16:31:20 <Xaroth|Work> well, manually sucks :P 16:31:24 <Xaroth|Work> so i'm trying to automate it 16:31:28 <Xaroth|Work> but I think i got it to work 16:31:32 <UukGoblin> yeah, that sometimes works 16:31:36 <UukGoblin> oh, cool :-) 16:31:41 *** CrackedP0t [~CrackedP0@rrcs-74-87-156-194.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 16:31:45 <Xaroth|Work> parse header file, remove junk, throw it to cffi, get module 16:31:46 <UukGoblin> (just wait for your first segfault;-) 16:31:55 <Xaroth|Work> ... and then figure out why i get stupid undefined symbols 16:32:03 <UukGoblin> :-) 16:32:16 <Xaroth|Work> at this point i'm just blacklisting those functions from being loaded, seems to work.. until I need them 16:33:06 <UukGoblin> undefined symbols when linking? 16:33:39 <Xaroth|Work> libzfs_fru_* are all defined in the headers 16:34:01 <UukGoblin> ah, but you may be missing a shared (or static) object while linking 16:34:12 <Xaroth|Work> but aren't part of libzfs.so 16:34:15 <Xaroth|Work> or any of it's brethren 16:34:35 <Xaroth|Work> now I don't need fru stuff, so it's not a big deal 16:35:03 <Xaroth|Work> but it's one of those things that you want to tripple check that you're not fucking up :P 16:35:32 <UukGoblin> hmm, they're in libzfs_fru.c, should be added to libzfs.la 16:36:10 <UukGoblin> /o\ 16:36:41 <Xaroth|Work> strings /lib/libzfs.so.2 | grep libzfs_fru 16:36:42 <Xaroth|Work> libzfs_fru_clear 16:36:50 <Xaroth|Work> (yes, that's the only one) 16:37:03 <UukGoblin> can also try nm /lib/libzfs.so.2 16:37:09 <UukGoblin> but that's... odd 16:37:22 <Xaroth|Work> so yeah 16:37:29 <Xaroth|Work> that took me a good 2 hours I'm never getting back :P 16:37:33 <Xaroth|Work> did manage to optimize some of my code a bit though :P 16:37:37 <UukGoblin> ;-) 16:37:59 <UukGoblin> that's not really a problem with the C language, but I can see how that can put you off ;-) 16:38:22 <Xaroth|Work> it doesn't put me off at all 16:38:33 <Xaroth|Work> but the errors you get are incredibly vague at that point 16:38:44 <Xaroth|Work> especially when you're used to the crapton of traceback data you get with python 16:39:00 <UukGoblin> nodnod 16:39:14 <UukGoblin> I remember getting nice stacktraces with some library or something in C++ 16:39:19 <UukGoblin> however, not when linking 16:39:54 <UukGoblin> actually, I think the clang compiler may give you nicer compile errors 16:40:27 <UukGoblin> but all this sounds like something wasn't properly linked somewhere... 16:41:56 *** jjavaholic [~jjavaholi@grahamg63.plus.com] has joined #openttd 16:54:14 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18280.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:57:04 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 16:58:26 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.126.186] has joined #openttd 17:13:56 *** roadt_ [~roadt@60.168.86.255] has quit [Quit: æ犻] 17:15:20 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-155-131.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 17:15:30 <Samu> hi 17:16:11 <Samu> something strange happened with one of my stations rating 17:16:47 <Samu> rating for rubber went all the way down to 15% and yet there were trucks there full loading all the time 17:17:09 <Alberth> cargodist? 17:17:13 <Samu> yes 17:17:34 <Samu> and now it is raising again 17:17:40 <Alberth> got a big heap of rubber for other destinations? 17:17:54 <Samu> big heap? 17:18:05 <Alberth> lots of rubber lying at the station 17:18:20 <Samu> well, not exactly 17:18:29 <Samu> but there's tons of rubber being moved around 17:18:39 <Samu> two rubber plantations are producing 720 tonnes 17:18:49 <Samu> but both stations are saturated 17:18:57 <Alberth> with cargodist, a loading truck doesn't get cargo for other destinations than where it goes 17:19:27 <Samu> trucks load rubber from a plantation that produces 720/month 17:19:49 <Samu> then transfer it to a train station, which is also close to one other rubber producing 720/month 17:19:58 <Samu> both are saturated 17:20:11 <Alberth> right, trucks can handle 1440/month? 17:20:19 <Alberth> sounds quite a lot for trucks 17:21:03 <Samu> there are 37 trucks here, rating is now 67% 17:21:35 <Samu> let me show you savegam 17:22:11 <Alberth> I need a savegame of the non-working situation :) 17:23:19 <Samu> got one with it decreasing from 57 all the way down to 15% 17:23:24 <Samu> it's my oldest 17:25:43 <Terkhen> hello 17:25:49 <Samu> hi 17:25:49 <Alberth> hello Terkhen 17:26:09 <Samu> oh, it's decreasing again 17:26:17 <Samu> this is strange 17:26:34 <Alberth> so where is the rubber from the plantation going? 17:26:48 <Samu> to a factory via monorail 17:27:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: the rubber waiting at the train station will reduce the rating of the truck station where the rubber came from 17:27:19 <Samu> onedrive is not uploading 17:27:29 <Eddi|zuHause> because they don't like their rubber waiting at stations 17:27:57 <Samu> at the train station the rating is also low, this is very strange 17:28:28 <Samu> https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23B29F3DE45F6F1F!763&authkey=!AMS1SjqrD-1LLTM&ithint=file%2csav 17:28:41 <Samu> autosave2.sav 17:28:50 <Alberth> with low rating, you get less rubber, so you can catch up, when you have caught up, you get higher rating, more than you can cope with, rating goes down, ... and so on 17:29:50 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 17:31:22 <Samu> woah, i found something else 17:31:33 <Samu> this is so buggy 17:31:49 <Samu> there's 4000 tonnes of rubber at the factory station 17:31:54 <Samu> why wasn't it accepted :( 17:32:26 *** CrackedP0t [~CrackedP0@rrcs-74-87-156-194.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:33:47 <Samu> oh gosh 17:33:52 <Samu> I see what happened 17:34:00 <Samu> this Sanham Factory is very recent 17:34:11 <Samu> oh, Frinness Factory 17:34:54 <Samu> and it pops exactly near the two train stations which made them accept rubber 17:35:06 <Samu> oh, no, just one of them 17:35:23 <Samu> can you look at the savegame? 17:36:47 <Samu> the stations involved are in Stanstoke Common, Sanham, Teedfield and Frinness recently with its Factory 17:37:04 <Samu> it's that new Factory that's ruining this 17:38:48 <Alberth> looks like it 17:40:00 <Samu> darn Factories :P 17:41:10 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody said this game was going to be easy :p 17:51:07 *** CrackedP0t [~CrackedP0@rrcs-74-87-156-194.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:52:48 <Samu> not a bug, just a surprise factory 17:52:52 <Samu> very funny 18:02:05 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:02:08 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:05:28 *** CrackedP0t [~CrackedP0@rrcs-74-87-156-194.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:06:17 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18280.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:58 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@80.202.66.53] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0.1/20150305021524]] 18:39:29 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d013a56.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 18:56:00 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3286.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:57:02 *** Belugas [~belugas@00011985.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:03 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.230] has joined #openttd 18:57:06 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 18:58:44 *** chillcore [~chillcore@2a02:a03f:1048:5400:4e72:b9ff:feac:5979] has joined #openttd 18:58:59 <chillcore> hello all 19:00:59 <Alberth> o/ 19:01:25 <chillcore> hello Alberth o/ 19:02:16 <Alberth> got your pm, looking at the code currently 19:02:40 <chillcore> I hope it was clear enough to understand the prob I am having? 19:02:57 <chillcore> also thanks and no rush ;) 19:03:11 <Alberth> not quite, but hopefully that will become more clear as I read more code :) 19:03:44 <chillcore> feel free to ask for clarifications as needed 19:04:15 <chillcore> documentation should be quite acurate but commit messages ay be a little off 19:04:25 <chillcore> may* 19:04:52 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@blfd-4d083e46.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Yo.] 19:05:56 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@95.232.38.183] has joined #openttd 19:06:01 <UukGoblin> at a transfer station, my trains transfer 150t of wood. A ship's capacity is 160t. Can I tell ships to go with 150t and don't wait for the extra 10? 19:06:16 <UukGoblin> "Load if available" would mean the train can leave empty, right? 19:06:40 <UukGoblin> and the conditional order jump won't work if the ship's current order (i.e. full load) is pending 19:06:49 <Wolf01> o/ 19:07:27 <chillcore> Alberth: while testing you may want to kinda ignore the 'new game' behaviour of the guis ... I intend to revert that part to normal as much as possible, it just does not make sence there as it does in scenario editor 19:08:07 <chillcore> hey wolf01 19:08:12 <Alberth> hi hi 19:08:43 <Alberth> UukGoblin: you can't tell that 19:09:11 <UukGoblin> Alberth, :-( 19:09:25 <Alberth> maybe 'load if available', with a conditional order back to the dock, but it's ugly 19:09:33 <UukGoblin> yeah :-/ 19:10:58 <Alberth> you can have 2 trains of 80t perhaps? 19:11:21 <Alberth> or just don't care :p 19:11:32 <UukGoblin> Alberth, not quite, capacity is 30t per wagon 19:11:54 <Alberth> when the ship leaves and the train arrives, you'll have stuff waiting at the dock anyway 19:12:26 <UukGoblin> yeah, but I'll get a smaller reward because it'll be waiting there for long 19:12:46 <chillcore> use 3 times 60 then, which will boost staion ratings a bit at the same time 19:12:48 <Alberth> ooooh, a zillion dollar minus 1 or so :) 19:12:56 <UukGoblin> btw, will "running" ships incur more maintenance cost than ships at the docks? If not then your "ugly" solution is actually good enough 19:13:15 <Alberth> depends on your ship set 19:13:26 <UukGoblin> it's an early stage of the game... I can't actually afford 3 trains yet ;-) 19:13:31 <Alberth> default doesn't make a difference 19:13:56 <UukGoblin> thanks 19:14:10 <Alberth> chillcore: 3*60 is 180 rather than 160 :p 19:14:27 <UukGoblin> speaking of that, where are ship settings? In vehicles there's only "trains" subgroup, and there's not much about ships elsewhere that I can find (other than vehicles) 19:14:53 <Alberth> actually don't know any ship set which does make a difference, but I'd consider that broken behaviour anyway :p 19:15:25 <UukGoblin> :-) 19:15:38 <Alberth> you can't set much with ships other than the path finder and rotation of 90 degrees or so 19:17:48 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:21 <chillcore> yes alberth ... but after a few trains there will be a little bit of reserve waiting at the dock to let the next ship have a full load after just two trains arrive ;) anyhoo 19:20:20 <UukGoblin> chillcore, actually, you're right... I'll just skip the order manually for the first time and then it should have plenty spare 19:20:49 *** roidal [~roland@cm140-210.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1] 19:20:55 <chillcore> you do not want to much spare as the goods will losesome value if waiting for too long 19:21:29 <Alberth> euhm, they do? 19:21:43 <Alberth> I thought they started counting after loading 19:21:44 <chillcore> usually I just want trains to move and do not care much for profit 19:23:14 <chillcore> I am pretty sure goods start losing value as soon as you pick them up and the loss continues during trransfer untill delivery 19:23:18 <chillcore> I could be wrong 19:24:49 <chillcore> but yeah not before first pickup they do not ... they just dissapear after two years IIRC 19:25:13 <UukGoblin> ASOIF is kinda cool. "First train arrives at Winterfell Woods!" 19:29:03 <chillcore> Also ... the Atari is selling Locomotion on steam now ... hmm 19:31:16 <TrueBrain> that means they might double their sales figures 19:31:22 <TrueBrain> up to a whopping 2! 19:31:25 <TrueBrain> *Trolls happily* 19:32:45 <chillcore> I am just curious what would happen if Chris Sawyer would put his new Transport Tycoon on it too ... 19:32:59 <TrueBrain> damn, never seen screenshots of Locomotion 19:33:02 <TrueBrain> but it looks a LOT like TT 19:33:07 <TrueBrain> including newspaper style etc :P 19:33:12 <chillcore> *Trolls along* 19:33:16 <chillcore> ye 19:33:24 <TrueBrain> it is only different gfx :P 19:33:35 <chillcore> eh nope it is the same 19:33:54 <TrueBrain> roads look different 19:34:25 <TrueBrain> the trailer on steam is just ..... lolz 19:34:29 <TrueBrain> looks like a CAM version 19:34:33 <TrueBrain> it is really really bad 19:34:43 <TrueBrain> 4:3 19:34:47 <TrueBrain> 240p or something 19:34:52 * chillcore has TT on iOS ... has beta tested and is mentioned in credits. 19:35:01 <TrueBrain> my condolunces 19:35:08 <chillcore> *end bragging* 19:35:09 <chillcore> lol 19:35:37 <TrueBrain> *ends trolling* 19:35:48 <TrueBrain> I am sure what I have said above will be used out of context sooner or later, so meh :P 19:35:49 <chillcore> it was fun testing and they were very swift to fix stuffs 19:35:59 <chillcore> for sure it will 19:36:04 <TrueBrain> I just cant see how these games are played on mobile platforms 19:36:06 <TrueBrain> it doesnt add up 19:36:19 <chillcore> it works suprisingly well to be honest 19:36:29 <TrueBrain> I am sure controls etc can be figured out 19:36:34 <TrueBrain> but the game itself ... it is just not meant for mobile platforms 19:36:35 <chillcore> huhu 19:36:40 <TrueBrain> I cant wrap my head around it 19:36:57 <chillcore> maps are not as big as openttd has them 19:36:59 <TrueBrain> same goes for games like Doom etc :P 19:37:28 <chillcore> ye 3D shooters are pretty bad to play on them 19:37:34 <chillcore> minecraft is soso 19:37:43 <TrueBrain> also a game I wouldnt play on mobile devices 19:37:48 <TrueBrain> it is not meant for htat .. it doesnt make sense ... 19:37:57 <TrueBrain> then again, I would not drive a smart either .. 19:38:00 <TrueBrain> it doesnt make sense :D 19:38:07 <chillcore> It was cheap and I had some credits left 19:38:31 <chillcore> also bought trainz but that is not so handy to control 19:38:45 <chillcore> all the rest is 'free' stuffs 19:38:55 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has joined #openttd 19:39:00 <chillcore> albeit full versions via appsgonefree 19:39:13 <TrueBrain> hehe 19:39:21 <chillcore> I refuse to invest in microtransaction garbage 19:39:32 <chillcore> or register for that matter 19:39:39 <TrueBrain> I like the free-to-play games, with MT 19:39:44 <TrueBrain> gives me options :D 19:39:48 <TrueBrain> as long as it is not P2W 19:40:17 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:40:21 <andythenorth> o/ 19:40:26 <chillcore> true there are many of those 19:40:37 <chillcore> \o 19:42:11 <chillcore> I have that openttd version too ... still stuck at 1.0.0 and the wrong palette is used 19:42:21 * andythenorth is having a not-understanding day 19:42:26 <TrueBrain> CATS 19:42:27 <andythenorth> wrt refits and also orders 19:42:37 <chillcore> meow 19:43:53 <TrueBrain> time to watch some tv 19:43:55 <TrueBrain> o/ 19:44:03 <chillcore> see ya 19:44:37 <chillcore> treubrain before you go ... is there a way to change the pull location of existing hg checkouts without mesing up the current checkout? 19:45:45 <chillcore> TrueBrain ^^^ darned spelling 19:46:48 <TrueBrain> ask Alberth 19:46:50 <TrueBrain> I dont do hg 19:46:54 <TrueBrain> git ftw! 19:47:26 <chillcore> git has it advantages yes 19:47:42 <chillcore> anyhoo enjoy your tele 19:47:52 <TrueBrain> will do! 19:47:58 <Alberth> mostly our sysadmin knows what to do there :) 19:48:07 <chillcore> moehahahaha 19:48:39 <chillcore> I can test later, I do not have that many checkouts yet on this HDD 19:49:01 <Alberth> I also just discovered that hg now uses 'trunk' branch for svn revisions 19:49:10 <chillcore> 'only' 11 19:49:20 <chillcore> yes it does 19:49:40 <chillcore> 22028 has default still 19:49:41 <Alberth> yeah, tb will fix that in a few days 19:50:07 <chillcore> it is fixed I believe ... it syncs itself if I understood correctly 19:50:12 <Alberth> it was caused by the updates he did 19:50:18 <Xaroth|Work> o/ 19:50:21 <chillcore> on purpose yes? 19:50:27 <Alberth> hihi Xaroth|Work 19:50:38 <Wolf01> frosch123: http://img-9gag-ftw.9cache.com/photo/ao0gn6n_460s.jpg 19:50:39 <Alberth> the updates were on purpose yes :p 19:50:48 <Alberth> the change wasn't :) 19:50:59 <Xaroth|Work> sup Alberth 19:51:20 <chillcore> ah I thought that change too 19:51:22 <Alberth> although it seems to reflect the current ideas of the hg devs 19:51:38 <frosch123> Wolf01: interesting :) 19:51:48 <Alberth> the simplest work around is to do a hg up trunk 19:52:02 <Wolf01> I always had the suspect :P 19:52:12 <Alberth> but expect that it will change again, so better not do that on too many repos 19:53:15 <chillcore> thanks for the hint alberth ... for the moment the old repos location still works so there is no real rush 19:54:41 <chillcore> I just know it can be changed because of that almost booboo I made once 19:55:19 <chillcore> just not sure how the code will react when pulling from a different location all of a sudden, although the base is the same 19:56:06 <chillcore> workbench tends to crash sometimes ... 19:57:46 <chillcore> if only I knew how to reproduce it reliably I could report 19:57:56 <Xaroth|Work> UukGoblin: for me it's more the confusion on how something that is defined in the headers, can actually not show up in the module 19:58:06 <Xaroth|Work> that, to me, makes little sense.. though I'm not -that- well versed in C 20:00:05 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:00:37 <UukGoblin> Xaroth|Work, hmm. Headers usually only "declare" functions, they don't define them 20:01:16 <UukGoblin> a function definition gets compiled into a shared (or static) object, and then all the functions from various objects are linked together 20:01:45 <UukGoblin> in C you usually don't include the function's body, only the header that declares it - it's the linker that later joins everything up 20:01:52 <Xaroth|Work> https://github.com/zfsonlinux/zfs/blob/master/lib/libzfs/libzfs_fru.c#L309 << but it's actually implemented 20:01:58 <Xaroth|Work> might be the visibility of it 20:02:13 <UukGoblin> yeah, I saw, not sure what's going on in the zfs case 20:02:33 <UukGoblin> it doesn't end up in the .so, which means it didn't get linked properly 20:03:13 <UukGoblin> Xaroth|Work, was HAVE_LIBTOPO defined during libzfs's compile time? 20:03:37 <Xaroth|Work> no idea, using ubuntu's pre-built binaries 20:03:40 <Xaroth|Work> but that might be it 20:04:05 <UukGoblin> Xaroth|Work, actually, it probably wasn't. Because the only function that you see in the .so, "libzfs_fru_clear", is the one defined when HAVE_LIBTOPO is undefed 20:04:14 <UukGoblin> so, yeah, that's probably it :-) 20:04:24 <Xaroth|Work> that explains a lot 20:05:02 <Xaroth|Work> you just cleared up a puzzle that kept me going for hours, thanks :D 20:05:16 <UukGoblin> yw :-) thanks for all the help with openttd too, guys :-) 20:05:18 <Xaroth|Work> now to find a sane way to actually implement that on the python side 20:06:00 <UukGoblin> Xaroth|Work, hmm. You could dlopen() the .so and see what functions are defined inside of it (with dlsym()) 20:06:26 <UukGoblin> if you don't see all the libzfs_fru_*, then raise an exception in python code trying to access them 20:06:59 <Xaroth|Work> not sure if python-cffi has functionality for that, but will have a look 20:07:29 *** CrackedP0t [~CrackedP0@rrcs-74-87-156-194.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:07:32 <UukGoblin> dlopen() and dlsym() are conformant to POSIX.1-2001 20:07:39 <UukGoblin> (at least according to the manpage I'm reading) 20:08:46 <UukGoblin> but yeah, finding which libzfs.so is being used might be tricky 20:09:05 <Xaroth|Work> yeah, but python-cffi has to have the implementation for it, if it doesn't have any easy wrapper around dlsym there's not much use in making my own 20:09:22 <Xaroth|Work> seeing the cost of trying to figure all that out outweigh the loss of a handfull not-so-useful functions 20:09:45 <Alberth> chillcore: what's these "backup" parameters about? 20:09:55 <Xaroth|Work> worst-case I can dlopen it and try to access them, I -think- python-cffi tries to do a dlsym at that point 20:09:55 <UukGoblin> oh, I assumed it let you write some C code 20:10:16 <Xaroth|Work> python-cffi is all about creating a thin wrapper around C libraries so youc an use them from python 20:10:28 <Alberth> chillcore: it seems weird to save them in settings 20:10:28 <Xaroth|Work> i.e. I can hook into libzfs so I can get zfs' information out of it, from within python 20:10:45 <UukGoblin> yeah, but with, say perl XS, you actually wrote some funky C code to help the framework glue things up together 20:11:01 <UukGoblin> oh, then that's probably the way to go :-) 20:11:15 <Xaroth|Work> I probably could, but at that point it's cost/benefit 20:11:20 <UukGoblin> if you can catch the "undefined symbol" exception then yeah, profit 20:12:22 <chillcore> Alberth: ye I understandwhat you mean. I was thinking of having them in a seperate file later on as custom presets kinda like newgrf presets? 20:12:53 <Alberth> those are in openttd.cfg afaik 20:12:59 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:13:28 <Xaroth|Work> there's a thousand things still to implement, I'm long glad I can now work around having to package different versions' header info for 3 different platforms and 5 different versions of libzfs :P 20:13:41 <Xaroth|Work> when most of the important stuff didn't really change 20:13:57 <Alberth> chillcore: well, I sort of worked through the first 3 patches, not sure if there is any point in continuing now 20:14:14 <Alberth> as the changes will ripple through the entire queue 20:14:29 <chillcore> Alberth: maybe in a seperate file ... if I figure out how to do that, and also would be better done before being commited to trunk to avoid having to use afterload.cpp 20:14:46 <chillcore> yes thenewgrf configs are in the normal config file 20:14:54 <Alberth> don't know, depends on their purpose 20:15:17 <chillcore> also, true the changes will ripple throughout the rest of the patches but functionality should not change much? 20:15:27 <Alberth> maybe the name "_backup" is just wrong 20:15:57 <chillcore> for now I have a live custom setting and presets are loaded into that 20:16:02 <Alberth> just looked at the code structure 20:16:18 <chillcore> yes the backup code is to become write to file ... if I manage to do that 20:16:46 <chillcore> I just wanted to get things working for now ... 20:16:55 <Alberth> well, some presets would be fine to have, I can imagine to add them to openttd.cfg 20:17:21 <Alberth> but don't know 20:18:09 <chillcore> we have hotkeys in a seperate file ... and I would not mind seeing the newgrf presets go in their own file too. 20:18:22 <chillcore> or would that become too many config files? 20:18:30 <chillcore> I am not sure on that 20:18:49 <chillcore> it feels like the right thing to do 20:20:32 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 20:20:34 * chillcore mentions writing to files and string manipulation is another one of those things I skipped the exercises on mostly 20:20:59 <chillcore> after this patch I am going to hit my books a bit harder ... 20:21:32 <Alberth> use a hammer? :p 20:21:36 <chillcore> hehe 20:21:40 <Alberth> sent you PMs 20:22:18 <chillcore> It is just that I have so much fun with plenty of things and then I get frustrated with the 'simple' stuffs and say balls to it 20:22:40 <chillcore> the luxury of not being a proffesional programmer :P 20:22:55 <chillcore> checking PMs ... 20:23:06 <Alberth> I mostly pointed in the direction where I think is the better solution, but don't know the details either 20:23:34 <Alberth> if you hit a problem or a wall, just ask, and we'll see if we can convince the code to co-operate :) 20:23:40 *** CrackedP0t [~CrackedP0@rrcs-74-87-156-194.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:24:28 <Alberth> ha ha, yeah, unfortunately, I cannot just start writing code without bothering about things that will happen tomorrow in the next step 20:24:39 <chillcore> will do, thanks for your help so far ... also sssst but I do not know all the details neither 20:25:12 <chillcore> eg. that desertline needing to be seperated from snowline is a prob I just discovered 20:25:13 <Alberth> so I always set it up properly immediately, which is a lot of work at times 20:25:18 <chillcore> last week or so 20:25:44 <Alberth> hmm, sounds useful, as desert and snow don't go well together :) 20:26:23 <Alberth> although.... it can get quite cold at night in the desert :p 20:26:42 <chillcore> ye that is why I have the patches on top of 200 to be integrated afterwards, to get it right the first time ... and then I still end up rewriting all of it 4 times 20:27:09 <Alberth> that's only 1 tome more than I do :) 20:27:14 <Alberth> *time 20:27:38 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 20:27:43 <chillcore> I have to say that all sand dunes look pretty nice, unfortunatly no tropical forest means broken chains too 20:27:51 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 20:28:25 <chillcore> but the same can hapen with snowline ... I stil am convinced that the current trunk implemantation is no good 20:28:48 <Alberth> I am not surprised, there is a lot broken in trunk :p 20:28:53 <chillcore> it being bases on the max height setting instead of generated height at mapgen 20:29:23 <chillcore> ye ... I hope I can fix most of it befre 1.5 but it is not looking very good at this point in time 20:29:24 <Alberth> hmm, yeah, smallmap colours are weird too 20:29:44 *** CrackedP0t [~CrackedP0@rrcs-74-87-156-194.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:29:48 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: so what if you terraform the topmost tile? or what if you start with a flat map in scenario editor? 20:30:11 <chillcore> same as now ... don't change it 20:30:28 <Eddi|zuHause> but you need a way to specify it beforehand 20:30:29 <Alberth> chillcore: I won't do worldgen stuff before 1.5 20:30:43 <chillcore> eg. if top tile is 100 snowline gets 25 eddi 20:30:56 <chillcore> or rather the desertline 20:31:10 <chillcore> andthen if you want to o lower then so ne it 20:31:13 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: there's variable snowline in NewGRFs 20:31:21 <chillcore> then so be it* 20:31:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it needs a point where 0% and 100% snow are 20:31:37 <chillcore> yes I know we can leave that as is 20:31:45 <chillcore> true 20:31:51 <chillcore> as it is now 20:31:58 <chillcore> was rather 20:32:02 <Eddi|zuHause> so what is the problem? 20:32:28 <chillcore> if I now set snowline at 50 ad the generate deset at 25 there is no trpical forest 20:32:30 <chillcore> at all 20:32:42 <chillcore> damn typing ... sorry 20:32:51 <chillcore> typing a bit slower 20:33:13 <Eddi|zuHause> so your problem is not how it works, but that you can enter nonsensical settings? 20:33:19 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27191 branches/1.5/ (2015-03-17 21:33:12 +0100 ) 20:33:22 <DorpsGek> [1.5] -Branch: Let's get serious. 20:33:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: now you're free to go :p 20:33:50 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27192 /trunk (15 files in 12 dirs) (2015-03-17 21:33:44 +0100 ) 20:33:51 <DorpsGek> -Change: heading for 1.6 now 20:33:53 <chillcore> a non sensical setting that breaks chains ... yes 20:34:23 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: you can't really prevent that. 20:34:25 <chillcore> I am going to read these PMs real quick ... brb 20:34:32 <chillcore> true eddi 20:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> like full FIRS on a 64x64 map will also break chains 20:34:45 <frosch123> Alberth: sorry to spoil your excuses :p 20:34:53 <Eddi|zuHause> because you just can't cram that many industries into it 20:34:53 <Alberth> :D 20:35:10 <andythenorth> bloody FIRS 20:35:25 <Alberth> hi hi andy 20:36:28 <chillcore> hehe frosch :P 20:36:39 <andythenorth> I am really perplexed by this http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1144962#p1144962 20:36:53 <andythenorth> usually Wally makes complete sense, but I canât understand that post at all 20:37:01 <andythenorth> and I had 7 hours sleep too 20:37:31 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 20:37:52 <andythenorth> do I miss something? refit has nothing to do with non-stop or not 20:37:56 <andythenorth> AIUI 20:38:53 <Alberth> would need change of the newgrf specs anyway 20:39:10 <frosch123> hmm, i forgot some version number somewhere 20:43:26 *** CrackedP0t [~CrackedP0@rrcs-74-87-156-194.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:44:05 <andythenorth> hey itâs HEQS! http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=523332&nseq=9 20:44:11 <chillcore> Alberth: thank you for commenting thse patches 20:44:11 <andythenorth> remember HEQS? 20:44:41 <Alberth> yw, I hope I didn't cause too much chaos :) 20:44:51 <chillcore> Alberth: the alignment of colons is right after a few patches ... it makes the chhanges in late rpatches smaller 20:45:02 <chillcore> no not at all ;) 20:45:54 <Alberth> we don't align colons I think 20:45:59 <chillcore> I can not add the custom settings to the existing presets array without making it modifiable 20:46:03 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27193 trunk/src/ai/ai_info.cpp (2015-03-17 21:45:57 +0100 ) 20:46:04 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r27192): Incomplete copy/paste. 20:46:49 <Alberth> I suggested to add the default custom values 20:47:24 <chillcore> ahlike that ... ye that makes sense 20:47:34 <Alberth> or at least I thought I did :) 20:47:57 <chillcore> maybe a struct would work better then an array indeed for the custom ones 20:49:05 <chillcore> re dafaults: ye I read too fast :P 20:51:32 <chillcore> as for trailing whitespace ... ye I need to check the patch for those but I believe there is a script mentioned on the coding style wiki page 20:51:58 <Alberth> I configured my editor to show them 20:52:16 <Alberth> as well as displaying TAB and spaces differently 20:52:30 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 20:53:41 <chillcore> the re-use of 'tgen_smoothness' that setting existed already and is saved as difficulty setting in older savegames ... changing that would require messing with afterload? 20:53:50 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:53:53 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 20:54:47 <Alberth> you just extended the value range by 1, I think adding a new case for the new range is ok 20:54:57 <Alberth> don't have much experience there though 20:55:34 <chillcore> the rest is obvious makes sense and gives me some stuff to do ... yay and thanks. 20:55:35 <Alberth> old savegames don't have the new value, and the old values keep the same meaning 20:56:09 <Alberth> no need to change values in afterload (it would be x = x; :) ) 20:56:22 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [] 20:57:27 <chillcore> I see ... 20:58:34 <Alberth> you can write the code, but the compiler will probably optimize it away :) 20:58:44 <Samu> i just found an exploit with transfers :( 20:59:11 <chillcore> most likely yes 21:00:29 <Samu> hard to describe it, maybe I'll make a video 21:00:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6C84F.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 21:01:02 <Samu> it happens when a truck is transfering cargo to a station 21:01:04 <chillcore> Alberth: most of your comments apply to the rest of the patches too so indeed little point in going through all of them right now 21:01:30 <Samu> it transfers 5 cargo units at a time 21:01:34 <Alberth> it felt that way 21:01:58 <Samu> between these 5/10/15/etc... tell it to go to depot 21:02:15 <Samu> for each time it drops 5 cargo, it gets a high transfer value 21:02:46 <Samu> i got a truck with £20k right now, doing that 21:03:20 <Alberth> ok, but it's all virtual money right? 21:03:31 <Samu> i am unsure of that 21:03:42 <Alberth> so when you deliver the cargo, do you get a large negative sum? 21:04:03 <Samu> that would be the train 21:04:10 <Samu> i have to check this better 21:04:29 <chillcore> Alberth: maybe if you have some free time you can playtest some and see if you find stuffs that could be improved gui / usability wise, I lack some feedback in that department, except for my own vision of where I want to end up that is 21:05:05 <Alberth> still sounds like a bug, but if you don't get more real money than you would normally, it's not really exploitable 21:05:30 <chillcore> Alberth: by that I mean ... for the rest of the patches you'd be repeating yourself mostly as I have my style 21:05:46 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:05:52 <chillcore> anyhoo thanks a bunch for your time 21:05:57 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:06:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 21:06:01 <michi_cc> Samu: If, with transfer value, you mean the sum in the vehicle details window, then it is indeed purely virtual. 21:06:35 <Samu> profit for this truck last year was £11,544 21:06:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6D5A8.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:06:47 <Samu> for the other truck which didn't use this exploit, it was... 21:06:57 <Samu> £1,202 21:07:08 <Samu> train profit, I am unsure 21:07:13 <Samu> must test it 21:07:58 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:08:42 <Samu> trying a new game in single player to check this 21:09:19 <Alberth> chillcore: I am not really sure what I would like to have wrt gui usage 21:11:12 <michi_cc> Samu: Even more easy: is the money shown on the map yellow or green? If it is yellow, you haven't actually made money yet. 21:11:30 <chillcore> Alberth: that makes two of us :P ... the gui is mostly to avoid having to recompile between making changes to the values 21:11:37 <Samu> it's yellow, but the truck had a last yeart of £11k 21:11:45 <Samu> makes me wonder 21:12:07 <chillcore> and it may be usefulll for peeps wanting to play araund that can/will not compile 21:12:12 <Alberth> chillcore: in your slider test thingie, int32 x = (tgen_smoothness_scale_slider * (r.right - r.left) / 429467295); looks wrong, dividing by UINT32_MAX will make x quite close to 0,which is what your slider does iirc 21:12:38 <Alberth> (oh, and yeah, use UINT{16,32}_MAX instead of random large numbers :) 21:12:45 <michi_cc> About the wrong thing though. All figures in the vehicle window are purely accounting and have no direct relation to the finance report. 21:12:51 <chillcore> for trunk just patch 10 with some values 'could' do 21:13:23 <chillcore> hmm except for a second array for smaller maps maybe 21:13:55 <chillcore> although I could just reduce the first two params (not scale) to 1 codewise too 21:14:57 *** Belugas [~belugas@00011985.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces] 21:14:57 *** supermop [~supermop@d110-33-187-164.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 21:14:59 <chillcore> Alberth: Ye magic numbers need to be removed still and replaced with their min max counterparts from genworld.h 21:15:15 <Alberth> :) 21:15:18 <chillcore> for testing having numbers there was/is easier 21:15:37 <chillcore> less recompilation of files ;) 21:15:38 <Alberth> fair enough :) 21:16:30 <chillcore> I still have that int32 overflowing too ... while it should not due to clamping 21:16:45 <chillcore> it never ends ... hahahaha 21:17:07 <Alberth> makes sense, 42... doesn't fit in int32 21:17:57 <Alberth> maybe the slider value is too big? 21:18:08 <Alberth> ie tgen_smoothness_scale_slider 21:18:10 <supermop> hi 21:18:17 <Alberth> hi supermop 21:18:58 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 21:19:01 <Alberth> andythenorth: yep, tram looks HEQs-ish 21:19:25 <Alberth> I may even have a previous picture of it :p 21:20:00 <Samu> testing in single player, train had a Cost when delivering to factory 21:20:04 <chillcore> Alberth: possisbly yes ... I left the adjustments too int32 as a seperate pacth ... perhaps uint16 is good enough but being able to put negative values did a lot of good; needs moar testing 21:20:15 <Samu> truck gets a high profit though 21:20:26 <Samu> train gets a negative profit 21:20:51 <Alberth> ok, not exploitable thus 21:20:58 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:21:01 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 21:21:09 <Alberth> as the sum of both stays the same 21:21:34 <Alberth> it's just how the sum is split between the truck and the train 21:21:43 <Samu> train income says £799 21:21:57 <chillcore> if you do not like that samu change the transfer payout percentage to be higher 21:21:59 <Samu> but his profit is -£3,293 21:22:19 <Alberth> depends on running costs and so on 21:22:53 <Samu> hmm 21:23:01 <Alberth> not easy to track back to profit for the cargo 21:23:33 * andythenorth -> bed 21:23:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 21:23:42 <Alberth> night andy 21:26:36 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 21:30:56 <chillcore> fuu noisy neigbours ... sleeping all flipping day and renovating after dark ... 21:30:57 <UukGoblin> goddammit. I've built 2 separate stations, one for farmsup pickup, the other for engsup pickup, both from the same machine shop. Now a train got an "implicit" order when it left a depot and is picking up farmsup from the engsup station... 21:31:11 <chillcore> I'll have my revene after saving some moneyz ... grrrrr 21:31:21 <Eddi|zuHause> chillcore: over here, you can call the police on people making noises after 22:00 21:31:21 <UukGoblin> how will the engsup station now know not to get farmsup from the shop? :-/ 21:32:11 <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: make the train orders "non-stop" 21:32:24 <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: then the station will forget about the wrong cargo after about 2 years 21:32:32 <UukGoblin> 2 years! 21:32:33 <UukGoblin> ;-) 21:32:37 <UukGoblin> ok I guess that's good enough 21:32:48 <UukGoblin> thanks :-) 21:33:25 <chillcore> eddi: ye here too ... but ... they just moved in one the one side so ... if it continues for longer then a week or two then I will have a talksie with them 21:33:27 <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't make it non-stop, then the next train going to that depot will try to load there again, screwing it up over and over 21:33:48 <chillcore> its not like they are drilling or so ... more silent nailing stuffs to the walls or something 21:36:32 <chillcore> supporting a bit now gives me the chance to be noisy too form time to time :P 21:38:14 <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, thanks. Yeah but this time the implicit order only came about because I reversed the first train and made it ignore signals 21:38:24 <UukGoblin> (turned out the depot wasn't placed too well) 21:38:30 <UukGoblin> so should be good now :-) 21:38:52 <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: implicit orders just record where the train went. they don't steer the train 21:39:05 <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: using "non-stop" will prevent implicit orders from showing up 21:39:17 <Eddi|zuHause> regardless where the train goes 21:39:27 <supermop> i don't understand why anyone ever uses stopping orders 21:39:35 <Samu> woah, train delivered a cost of 31k 21:39:38 <Samu> lol 21:39:40 <supermop> in what case would you not want non-stop 21:40:26 <chillcore> single line with 6 stations ... make it go to first and last and be done with it ;) 21:40:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: well, all the money that you "cheated" for the truck, the train loses 1:1 21:41:13 <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, yup, makes sense 21:41:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: this unload-depot-unload trick used to work on deliveries, too, but it was fixed years ago. 21:41:40 <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, I'm just saying, the train shouldn't go through the wrong station at all in this case (it only went there accidentally because I faffed about) 21:42:03 <UukGoblin> I was just worried the station would start picking up the wrong cargo, but it's good to know it'll go away after 2 years 21:42:03 <chillcore> supermop: that is provided the train has nowhere else too go but via the middle 4 stations 21:42:17 <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: just because things *shouldn't* happen, doesn't mean they never do happen :p 21:42:41 <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, basically if I add a non-stop order now, it will mean the train will be going via the wrong spot ;-) 21:42:53 <supermop> but then you can't expand the line in the future 21:43:03 <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: why? 21:43:37 <Samu> income was still better with the exploit, £3,929 vs £3,627 normal transfer 21:43:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: that can be normal fluctuations 21:44:10 <Samu> normal transfer is faster 21:44:15 <Samu> hmm 21:44:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: probably completely unrelated 21:44:46 <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, because it only got that implicit order accidentally (due to me reversing and ignoring signals manually) 21:44:50 <chillcore> supermop: yes and no ... depends how you build your networks really ... I build so vehicles can go everywhere from evrywhere so I do not use 'em much 21:45:29 <Samu> normal transfer would pay off in the long run, unless I have uber gosu micro 21:45:29 <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: like i said, the implicit order doesn't tell the train to go there 21:46:30 <Samu> then the trick would maybe pay off 21:46:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Samu: there are more useful exploits in this game... 21:46:41 <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, yup :-) it's all good now ;-) 21:48:59 <Samu> got to try a long distance transfer 21:49:07 <Samu> see if the trick pays off or not 21:50:58 <chillcore> there is no trick there samu ... some vehicles in the chain get overpayed (or not enough) and then the last vehicle pays the bill or makes huge profits it should not get 21:51:12 <chillcore> as the money goes to thesame company it does not matter much 21:51:47 <chillcore> set transfer payout at 100 % if you want ... it will make no diff to your balance in the end 21:52:28 <chillcore> except for minor fluctuations that is ... delays, breakdowns, longer/shorter loading times and so on 21:54:37 <chillcore> I myself find 75% most enjoyable 21:58:58 <Samu> £11,354 - transfer cheating 21:59:33 <chillcore> you should write an anti-cheat patch ... :P 21:59:51 <Samu> £21,464 - normal transfer 22:00:01 <Samu> okay, so it doesn't pay off after all 22:02:59 <Samu> £8,498 - transfer cheating 2nd time 22:03:31 <chillcore> hmm ... dur dur de comprenure, comme d'habitude 22:03:53 <chillcore> :P 22:03:59 <Samu> £15,371 - normal transfer 22:04:32 <Samu> oh well, it was fun to see trucks with £24k though 22:05:01 <TrueBrain> what is this weird thing in front of those numbers? 22:05:03 <TrueBrain> can I eat them? 22:06:11 <Samu> half the income was a bit unexpected though 22:06:22 <Samu> i was hoping at least nearly same income 22:08:54 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27194 /branches/1.5 (bin/baseset/opntitle.dat src/misc_gui.cpp) (2015-03-17 23:08:48 +0100 ) 22:08:55 <DorpsGek> [1.5] -Change: New titlegame (Emperor Jake) 22:09:13 <Samu> emperor jake wins? 22:09:18 <Samu> well, okay 22:09:21 <chillcore> I am not sure what part of 'you have to add the whole chain of vehicle incomes together to get meaningfull data' you missed above samu 22:09:37 <frosch123> did i commit the wrong one? :p 22:09:57 <chillcore> woopsie ... 22:10:08 <Samu> this was the income i was seeing at finances window 22:10:25 <chillcore> yes samu from one vehicle in the chain ... 22:10:40 <Samu> truck gets nothing 22:10:59 <chillcore> oh my 22:11:26 <chillcore> train gets too much then maybe yes no perhaps? 22:11:39 <chillcore> if the last vehicle is a train that is 22:11:54 <Samu> i made 2 tests 22:12:04 <Samu> first test was truck transfer to train, short distance 22:12:18 <chillcore> yes transfer 22:12:21 <Samu> 2nd test, train goes a very loong distance transfers to another train 22:12:29 <chillcore> that means two vehicles handle the same cargo 22:12:43 <chillcore> cargo payment is devided 22:12:57 <Samu> these last resusts were for the 2nd test, sorry about the confusion 22:13:01 <chillcore> but at transfer the code does not yet know how far the packets still have to travel 22:13:23 <chillcore> you are not confusing me at all :P 22:13:35 <chillcore> I tested cargodist much 22:13:38 <Samu> the income is for the last vehicle 22:13:40 <Wolf01> 'night 22:13:45 <chillcore> night wolf 22:13:47 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 22:13:53 <Samu> i made sure i was getting only one income per year 22:14:32 <Samu> at finances window i get the real income 22:14:41 <Samu> isn't it? 22:14:55 <chillcore> ye and was the travel distance and delivery speed the same in both tests... in both cases 22:15:04 <chillcore> also did the year not skip in the meantime 22:15:20 <Samu> there were breakdowns 22:15:27 <Samu> that was a variable 22:15:31 * chillcore mumbles something about maintenance costs at new year 22:16:08 <Samu> i looked at train income, not total expenses 22:16:35 <chillcore> ye did you look at the dates too? 22:17:15 <Samu> I'm confused 22:17:58 <chillcore> the same trip starting in march and ending in june will not look the same as a trip starting in november and ending in febrauri in the finances gui 22:18:14 <chillcore> befause the taxman comes jan 1 22:18:43 <chillcore> and maintenance personal wants to be payed that date too 22:19:16 <Samu> why would that matter if I'm only looking at income 22:19:25 <Samu> i'm not looking at train running costs 22:19:31 <chillcore> exactly 22:19:36 <chillcore> you should 22:20:00 <Samu> ok, let me test again 22:20:20 <Samu> no breakdowns 22:25:07 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d013a56.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:31:10 <Samu> £74,584 - no cheating 22:32:07 <chillcore> and added running cost to that? 22:33:39 <Samu> £73,217 - cheating 22:33:43 <Samu> ah now it makes more sense 22:33:57 <UukGoblin> how do I autoreplace a train that doesn't have a depot in its orders? 22:34:16 <UukGoblin> (having a "service if needed" in orders also doesn't cause the train to go there and get upgraded) 22:34:29 <chillcore> send it to depot manually UukGoblin 22:34:32 <Samu> running costs should be equal on both tests 22:34:40 <UukGoblin> chillcore, ouch ;-) 22:35:11 <Samu> -£4,240 - cheating running cost 22:35:13 <chillcore> vehicles follow orders so ... 22:35:42 <UukGoblin> chillcore, yeah but there's a lot of 'em 22:35:46 <chillcore> if evenually it goes because of the 'service if needed' setting it will be replaced then 22:35:49 <UukGoblin> and I'd like to disrupt the services as little as possible 22:36:01 <Samu> £-4,240 - no cheating running cost 22:36:12 <UukGoblin> it won't ever need service as I took the advice and switched breakage off 22:36:18 <Samu> my tests are complete 22:36:33 <chillcore> I always have a depot order even if playing without breakdowns UukGoblin, for that reason 22:36:56 <Supercheese> vehicles should head for autoreplacement automatically 22:37:03 <UukGoblin> chillcore, so your trains always stop at a depot? 22:37:03 <Supercheese> no manual sending to depot needed 22:37:15 <Supercheese> even if they don't normally stop at any depot 22:37:18 <UukGoblin> hmm. 22:37:21 <Supercheese> autoRenew however 22:37:26 <Supercheese> different story 22:37:44 <chillcore> yeah usually at the beginning or end of route I have a depot order 22:37:44 <UukGoblin> it's replacement, I want to upgrade the engine 22:37:52 <Supercheese> yeah it should handle that automagically 22:37:58 <chillcore> or middle if my network has one there already 22:37:59 <Supercheese> just hit replace and wait 22:38:22 <Supercheese> as long as there is a depot somewhere along its route, it will head for it with minimal disruption of schedul 22:38:25 <Supercheese> schedule* 22:38:55 <UukGoblin> yeah, I wonder if there is ;-) 22:38:55 <Supercheese> only problem you might get is if there is no depot anywhere along its route 22:39:10 <UukGoblin> that might actually be the problem. :-) 22:39:17 <Supercheese> if not, just build one and it will find it 22:39:19 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:39:23 <Supercheese> no extra action needed 22:39:26 <UukGoblin> yup, OK, confirmed, it's happening allright 22:39:31 <Supercheese> :) 22:40:16 <chillcore> but I often end up with steam somewhere near the year 3000 too ... just because 'choo choo' :P 22:40:25 <Supercheese> steam ÃŒber alles 22:40:30 <Samu> hmm so all this means the last year on vehicle information window is a lie 22:40:35 <UukGoblin> :-) 22:40:43 <Samu> last year profit 22:43:58 <chillcore> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHuXpWSNa-8 22:44:04 <chillcore> I can sense it ... 22:44:56 * Supercheese actually plays a game of OTTD 22:46:09 <chillcore> I would not call it a lie samu ... more you not understanding all that needs to be understood 22:48:16 <chillcore> do you have inflation on? do you have a year of recession happening? ... etc etc etc 22:49:33 <Samu> no 22:49:44 <Samu> oh i like bjork 22:51:00 <chillcore> for a decent test you need to make a savegame and test with the same starting dates, same vehicles, make sure that the total trip incuding transfers takes exactly the same time, and more 22:51:35 <Samu> same time for transfers isn't quite possible 22:51:50 <Samu> there was a few days difference 22:52:47 <chillcore> cool me too samu ... I landed you on her own channel, so enjoy 22:53:34 <chillcore> also 4 days diff on a 40 days trip is 10% faster delivery ... 22:54:20 <Supercheese> Aaaaargh 22:54:20 <chillcore> thus higher pay for the same cargo and 10% less running cost too 22:54:26 <Supercheese> accidentally bulldozed a river 22:54:34 <Supercheese> no way to get it back..... 22:54:54 <Supercheese> wellp, other than the scenario editor 22:55:05 <chillcore> scenario editor ye 22:55:30 <Supercheese> there really really should be an in-game way to fix that 22:55:43 <chillcore> samu almost had a patch but he got distracted by something else ... 22:55:45 <Supercheese> "shit, accidentally blew up the river" 22:55:59 <Supercheese> what else can you do but .sav -> .scn, fix, .scn -> .sav 22:56:05 <Supercheese> very annoying process 22:56:30 <Samu> lol 22:56:37 <Samu> the "almost" part 22:56:39 <chillcore> nothing at the moment, build a little piece of nice looking canal? 22:56:56 <Supercheese> canal is not nice looking 22:56:58 <Supercheese> at all 22:57:00 <Supercheese> that's the problem 22:57:52 <Samu> it was a long distance, started at early january, final delivery was in december 22:57:53 <Supercheese> ah well, it's annoying but at least not insurmountable 22:58:14 <Samu> at least 450 tiles away 22:58:53 <chillcore> ye samu almost ... all you had to do was loop over the map at gamestart and store those river tiles so they could be restored automagically (except for when the tile was terraformed) 22:59:30 <chillcore> then you started doing 4 things at once (still no clue what for) and you got lost in details 22:59:35 <chillcore> anyhoo 23:00:24 <chillcore> you are doing the same thing now? 23:01:23 <Samu> i couldn't do it without doing the others too 23:02:12 <chillcore> it could be there are still bugsies but cargodist took a long time to finish and was tested by a huge number of peeps 23:02:31 <Samu> I thought I had to free up the bit first 23:02:52 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 23:03:04 <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, right, 2 years have now definitely passed, but the station is still receiving the wrong cargo, even though I've never picked it up since 23:03:23 <UukGoblin> there's 200 crates waiting, they slowly expire, but the station keeps getting more and more (effectively stealing it from the nearby correct station) 23:03:41 <Eddi|zuHause> UukGoblin: if you're playing 1.4.4, that feature was not implemented yet 23:03:54 <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, oh. That's the debian latest :-S 23:04:11 <UukGoblin> so yeah, that's what I'm playing 23:04:32 <Eddi|zuHause> how do "debian" and "latest" even fit in the same sentence? :p 23:04:43 <UukGoblin> ugh 23:04:46 <Samu> let me look at my topic, I nearly forgot what were my plans 23:05:01 <UukGoblin> Eddi|zuHause, it's actually the latest stable version too 23:05:10 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 23:05:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6C84F.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:05:39 <UukGoblin> ugh, savefiles are binary.. :-S any chance I could edit them? 23:05:58 <Eddi|zuHause> not really 23:05:59 <UukGoblin> I'll just scrap the station I guess :-( 23:06:05 <Supercheese> save files are compressed by default IIRC 23:06:10 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is the easiest 23:06:28 <Eddi|zuHause> build a new station in its place (with ctrl pressed), and reroute the trains 23:06:39 <Eddi|zuHause> the old station sign will decay in about a month 23:15:07 <Samu> okay, i see why I had to do 4 things at once 23:15:18 <chillcore> <Supercheese> "shit, accidentally blew up the river" what else can you do but .sav -> .scn, fix, .scn -> .sav very annoying process <- 'someone' mentioned a few days back it would be nice to be able to load/save normal saves too in scenario editor ... needs patch however and most patchers are quite occupied already as it is. ;) 23:15:44 <Samu> i was planning for the future :o 23:16:40 *** luaduck_zzz is now known as luaduck 23:16:45 <chillcore> yes indeed, instead of just focussing on (re)storing river tiles first and then moving on to the future 23:17:33 <Samu> the future would screw me 23:17:35 <Samu> :p 23:17:52 <chillcore> no your impatience will :P 23:18:49 <Samu> so, where would i put the 1-bit canal think? 23:18:53 <Samu> at m6? 23:19:01 <Samu> thing* 23:19:23 <chillcore> the patches I am able to write now I could not have done in 2008, just because of not enough knowledge on important details I picked up while doing 'simpler' stuffs 23:20:00 <chillcore> yeah you just needed 1 free bit to store a 1 or 0 in ... no shuffling needed 23:21:45 <Samu> then in the future i'd have a big mess for ownership bits splattered around 23:22:27 <Samu> focusing only on canal on river tile 23:22:37 <chillcore> nah you just had 1 more bit to shuffle around, that is all 23:22:54 <chillcore> and ther you go again ... canal and river is two things ... grrrrrr 23:23:14 <Samu> how? 23:23:28 <Samu> canal on river means there's a river when you destroy the canal 23:23:30 <chillcore> a river is not a canal is not sea 23:24:03 <chillcore> you don't need a river to build a canal do you? 23:24:34 <Samu> no, but the game let's me build a canal on a river tile 23:24:42 <chillcore> and? 23:24:56 <Samu> if you destroy the canal, it won't revert to river 23:25:03 <Samu> becomes a bare land tile 23:25:30 <chillcore> yes ... it would be nice if it became river again ... but only if there was a river first 23:25:41 <chillcore> is that really so hard to understand? 23:25:50 <Samu> we're talking about the same thing 23:25:56 <chillcore> no not at all 23:25:56 <Samu> canal on river 23:26:01 <chillcore> ye then yes 23:26:27 <chillcore> still not the same 23:26:58 * ST2 grabs some popcorns 23:27:01 <ST2> xD 23:27:03 <ST2> hi :) 23:27:04 <Samu> I don't get it 23:27:06 <chillcore> if there was no river to start with it should become river? 23:27:08 <Samu> hey 23:27:15 <chillcore> I know samu 23:27:36 * chillcore has cookies to munch on 23:27:42 <Samu> if there was no river, then canal on river would turn = false 23:27:48 <Samu> something like that 23:27:57 <Samu> destroying it would check that condition 23:28:12 <Samu> becomes bare land 23:28:22 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i528C3286.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 23:29:20 <chillcore> ye and for that you store only river tiles and don't give a damn about canals ... at first 23:29:28 <chillcore> anyhoo 23:30:33 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 23:30:55 <Samu> okay, i name it RebuildRiver 23:31:08 <Samu> is that just because of the name? 23:31:24 <chillcore> o/ ST2 23:31:41 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 23:32:22 <chillcore> samu ... do something simpler first ;) 23:32:51 <Samu> I'm not doing anything now 23:33:17 <Samu> there's nothing else that can be built on rivers that don't currently revert correctly into a river 23:33:36 <Samu> I don't understand what you mean 23:34:28 <Samu> dock on river, destroy dock, river is restored 23:34:44 <Samu> ship depot on river, destroy ship depot, river is restored 23:34:45 <chillcore> to put it simple ... as long you do not store rivertiles there is nothing to restore neither 23:35:20 <chillcore> read: nothing to check against 23:35:43 *** flipFLOPS [~aardvark@cpe-107-185-75-97.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:36:11 <chillcore> also you need to grasp the basics of programming ... we can not teach you the concept of asserts and stuffs 23:36:51 <Samu> canal on river, canal is destroyed, river is restored? 23:37:47 <chillcore> river is destroyed code does not know there was a river ... boom 23:38:07 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 23:39:39 <Samu> destroying a river, becomes bare land 23:39:54 <Samu> i just don't get what you're saying 23:39:55 <chillcore> it is like people trying to explain to me how pointers or string manipulation work ... I do not get the basics so there is little use of them trying to explain it to me 23:40:36 <chillcore> I need to get my hands dirty with simple exercises and only then their feedback becomes usefull to me 23:40:52 <chillcore> more importantly while they help me their time is not wasted 23:41:27 <chillcore> AFTER I get the basics not before will their time not be wasted 23:42:23 <chillcore> ofcourse they can write code for me and sure enough it will work ... but what will I have learned? 23:42:27 <Samu> canal and river are different, they build on top of the other 23:42:46 <chillcore> how to ask other peeps to do stuffs for me and nothing else? 23:42:58 <Samu> or actually, just the canal 23:43:27 <Samu> okay, I give up, I don't get what you're trying to tell me 23:43:38 <Samu> canals aren't like the other structures 23:43:43 <chillcore> they are very different ... rivers are generated on mapgen, canals are buildable wherever and whenever 23:43:51 <Samu> canal is a waterclass 23:44:17 <Samu> they're not in the same group as a dock 23:44:38 <Samu> meh, I stop 23:46:15 <chillcore> ye better do something else first samu, there is a reason I do not touch bits or as little as possible 23:47:45 <Samu> I need 1 bit for this canal on river thing, that's all I know 23:47:58 <Samu> if this is wrong 23:48:07 <Samu> then .... I don't know why 23:49:35 <chillcore> yes 1 bit that is set to 1 or 0 at gamestart, then later whena canl is removed on a tile check the value 23:49:49 <chillcore> o is bare land, 1 is restore river 23:50:03 <chillcore> that is it it stops there 23:50:14 <chillcore> for this restore river tile patch 23:51:08 <chillcore> you make it way too complicated with I don't know what kind of details that do not matter for this 23:52:55 <chillcore> ^^^ this is what went wrong when you tried ... not needed details and you got frustrated ... 23:53:56 <chillcore> not ponting fingers or anything ... I get frustrated too sometimes but I move on and go back later to try again 23:54:00 <Samu> I'm gonna try that again tomorrow, but without the "details" 23:55:19 <chillcore> that is a good idea ... there is code in afterload.cpp that loops over the map that you can re-use to give you a head start ;) 23:56:08 <Samu> those "details" you mention were the owners. 23:56:32 <chillcore> and for god sake don't try to work around asserts, they are there for a reason, if you hit one you are doing it wrong 23:56:52 <Samu> ok, only 1 owner then 23:57:07 <Samu> or in other words, I am not touching that part 23:57:42 <Samu> in the future, maybe... I'll think on finding a way to store 2 owners, this was the "details" 23:58:08 <Samu> the reason I was trying to shrink them from 5 to 4 bits 23:58:26 <chillcore> don't worry about them yet ... store the bit first and worry about restoration once you have that part working 23:59:08 <Samu> this means m1 bit 4 can't be used for CanalOnRiver flag :( 23:59:16 <Samu> so be it 23:59:50 <chillcore> that's the spirit :P