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00:03:30 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:10:03 *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 00:14:26 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 00:43:35 *** Pikka [~Octomom@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:04:56 *** smoke_fumus|2 [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 01:06:06 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:13 *** BobDendry [~lachlan@14-200-248-59.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 01:41:40 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:04:18 *** fjb_mobile [~frank@p4FF2F78B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:04:20 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d086076.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 02:11:17 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x5d8214c7.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:22:09 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@000125f6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:42:45 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 03:08:57 *** kamnet|AFK is now known as kamnet 03:12:29 <kamnet> I am dead. I am dead. I am Dead. I have returned to the land of the living. I am a zombie. I am a zombie. I am a zombie. 03:43:31 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 04:26:48 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:56:02 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD4E2E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 04:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD56FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:45:21 *** Smedles [~quassel@58.160.136.199] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:46:56 *** Smedles [~quassel@58.160.136.199] has joined #openttd 06:09:34 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 06:10:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 06:10:14 <andythenorth> o/ 06:17:11 <kamnet> \o 06:22:11 <kamnet> I wish I could understand the lyrics here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9M3Bgebn9U 06:23:57 <andythenorth> kamnet: does the WIRE grf add anything to gameplay? 06:24:04 <andythenorth> I have been considering something similar 06:27:06 <kamnet> No I don't think it really does. Its just something else to transport. 06:27:29 <andythenorth> power plant -> power -> town 06:27:31 <andythenorth> was my thought 06:27:37 <kamnet> In WIRES the power plants accept coal, but AFAICT doesn't require them in order to generate electriccity. 06:27:42 <andythenorth> but I wouldnât want to tie it to electricity 06:27:55 <andythenorth> gas is also valid 06:27:58 * andythenorth dunno 06:28:06 <kamnet> steam generated from the recycling centers 06:28:47 <andythenorth> maybe 06:28:50 <andythenorth> they have a chimney 06:29:00 <andythenorth> original FIRS design had an incinerator for waste 06:29:29 <andythenorth> âpowerâ would need a whole new transport type, hacked on trains 06:29:34 <andythenorth> so itâs a lot of work for minimal result 06:29:36 <kamnet> I always thought the recycling center also looked like a waste incerator too 06:30:01 <kamnet> Yeah, especially if some AI is just going to try to transport it all using lorries. 06:30:23 <andythenorth> based on this http://www.letsrecycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/West_London_Waste.jpg 06:30:27 <andythenorth> for no particular reason 06:30:39 <kamnet> Nice looking plant 06:33:06 <supermop> i wouldn't bother with power until there is a non-railtype means of transporting it 06:33:10 <kamnet> I grew up not far from this one: http://is.gd/cGTqqe 06:33:37 <supermop> or until there is a way for power to be meaningful without being transported 06:33:48 *** Celestar1 [~Celestar@x5d868785.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:35:29 <kamnet> City Growth gamescripts could require it, just like food and water. 06:36:08 <supermop> currently they only work by recording what is delivered 06:36:41 <supermop> so either all coal delivered to town counts regardless of where, or you'd need to 'deliver' power 06:36:42 <andythenorth> there is a town control newgrf spec 06:36:52 <andythenorth> which afaik nobody is using meaningfully 06:37:14 <supermop> would be better for town to just check if nearby powerplant is being supplied 06:37:42 <supermop> do not even need to verify how well it is being supplied 06:38:18 <supermop> really a well supplied steel mill should grow town too though - more jobs, needs more workers 06:38:24 <supermop> idk 06:39:01 <supermop> if some industries could have a flag for if they are 'active' or not, and some of them then pass that on to nearby towns 06:39:11 <kamnet> I think a bigger game-change improvement for OpenTTD would be more industries that requires passengers to operate. 06:40:00 <supermop> well you could probably build a steel mill today that only requires a coouple gys o run, rather than thousands 06:40:28 <kamnet> Perhaps that would be even better than farm/industry supplies. 06:40:46 <supermop> in many areas, if there is no transit to the industry, workers will just drive 06:41:03 <supermop> and in the 19th C the workers just lived next to the factory and walked 06:42:11 <supermop> sure you could say that better transit to the industry is a perk, which allows the industry to attract workers at a lower wage, which leaves more money for operating the industry 06:42:23 <supermop> but then you are down the rabbit hole 06:43:07 <andythenorth> I thought YETI had workers covered? 06:43:11 <supermop> and are confronted with arguements of, how can this steel mill afford to keep buying 10,000 tons of ore every month 06:43:16 <supermop> as does manpower 06:43:21 <kamnet> I'm just thinking about how many players complain that moving cargo is less interesting than moving passengers. 06:43:55 <andythenorth> do they? o_O 06:44:14 <kamnet> Plenty enough that completely ignore cargo. 06:44:24 <supermop> i prefer to focus on passengers, but i have never heard anyone else say that 06:44:27 <kamnet> Maybe it's jsut redditors. :D 06:45:46 <kamnet> But I"m thinking, hey, cargodist wants you to take passengers from city to nearby industry. Now that you spent all that money building a rail/bus stop to get them there and back, double-up on your utilization and start moving the output from the industry back. 06:46:27 <andythenorth> my workers walk 06:46:43 <andythenorth> and consider themselves grateful 06:47:04 <supermop> i mean i can see it more as a disincentive to steelmills out in the middle of nowhere 06:47:29 <supermop> but a passenger train to a remote factory makes even less sense 06:47:43 <V453000> asdf 06:47:59 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has joined #openttd 06:48:08 <supermop> we have awoken the beast 06:48:45 <kamnet> Still, other than just being neat eyecandy and something else to shift around, I don't see power being something particularly useful to OpenTTD in its current state. 06:49:36 <kamnet> Although it would be neat if Supercheese just fixed the issue with electricity being shipped by non-WIRES vehicles. 06:50:40 <Supercheese> I think I posted the sources 06:50:42 * Supercheese checks 06:50:47 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:51:15 <supermop> electricity, gas, water should just move on its own via unseen infrastructure 06:51:31 <supermop> until such time as we can have conveyors, pipes, etc 06:51:40 <Supercheese> agh didn't post 'em 06:52:05 <supermop> best use for electricity is to allow aluminum plant to work 06:53:47 <kamnet> Yep, that wouldd be a good use 06:53:59 <Supercheese> you can already use the PIPE grf for water eh 06:59:24 <kamnet> Water. oil... beer... 07:07:26 <supermop> ugh 07:07:29 <supermop> out of beer 07:20:13 <andythenorth> milk 07:20:18 * andythenorth has milk pipelines in current game 07:20:28 <supermop> i should model some van molyvan buildings 07:21:00 <supermop> could fit into a brutalist/tropic modern/metabolist/ or SEA set 07:22:16 <supermop> http://thebeautifuloccupation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/PhnomPenh-0177.jpg 07:26:25 <andythenorth> you should model a range of ships and output them to 8bpp 07:26:46 <V453000> nice mess 07:26:58 *** shirish [~quassel@117.215.27.111] has joined #openttd 07:29:15 <supermop> its a cool building, both the original and the current ad hoc state 07:29:27 <supermop> isn't pikka doing ships? 07:29:43 <supermop> didn't you also do ships? do we need more ships? 07:29:50 <V453000> shits are uselez 07:29:59 <V453000> I will do a couple of shits once I need them for rawr 07:31:33 <andythenorth> the ships we have are lame 07:31:39 <andythenorth> we are binning Squid 07:31:41 <andythenorth> and starting again 07:31:46 <V453000> XD 07:31:48 <V453000> great 07:31:59 <V453000> the 4 rawr ships will have no competition 07:32:01 <V453000> GG 07:32:22 <supermop> why not do what pikkas doing, just a small medium and large ship 07:32:29 <andythenorth> because...eh? 07:32:35 <andythenorth> pikka will get bored of that and add more :) 07:33:04 <andythenorth> really stripped down rosters are not, in fact, fun 07:33:17 <supermop> wont boat hulls in 8bpp just look the same as ships 07:33:45 <V453000> 32bpp for eternity! 07:33:55 <supermop> *as squid 07:34:13 <andythenorth> supermop these ones will go to 11 07:34:21 <supermop> 32bpp needs to much rust and shit all over the boat 07:34:24 <supermop> 11bpp? 07:35:07 <V453000> rust is easy to make and adds a TON of beauty quickly 07:37:35 <supermop> i don't really know much about boats 07:37:45 <supermop> or give a shit 07:37:51 <supermop> i have a boater hat 07:38:11 <supermop> boat neck jumper with navy stripes 07:38:35 <supermop> rowboats maybe 07:39:09 <supermop> also don't give a shit about steam.... 07:39:18 <V453000> I dont know fuck about boats either, but them being friendly with rust means they are easy to model and make nice looking 07:39:50 *** smoke_fumus|2 [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 07:39:59 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.108.143] has joined #openttd 07:43:38 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 07:46:31 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:04:33 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.108.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:14:48 <supermop> need to render mlss sheds 08:15:52 <supermop> maybe i'll use revit 08:18:20 *** Pikka [~Octomom@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 08:21:16 <V453000> just use a normal graphics 3D program :P 08:22:01 <supermop> http://www.citylab.com/commute/2015/04/the-unexpectedly-compelling-case-for-ferries/390474/ 08:23:34 <V453000> tldr not enough pictures 08:24:21 <supermop> boats 08:32:53 <supermop> really hope dont have to live in greenpoint when i go back 08:32:54 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.115.235.66] has quit [Quit: AdiIRC is updating to v1.9.7 Beta Build (2015/04/14)64 Bit] 08:33:08 <supermop> not commuting is best part of living in nyc 08:33:25 <supermop> hopefully chinatown will still be cheap as it was when i left 08:33:26 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.115.235.66] has joined #openttd 08:34:19 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 08:37:02 *** AbsoluteVeritas [~|Truth|@c-73-177-155-170.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:41:55 *** |Truth| [~|Truth|@c-73-177-155-170.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 08:42:20 <kamnet> That was a good article, supermop. 08:42:36 <kamnet> Where do you live now 08:42:38 <kamnet> ? 09:01:41 *** ChrisM [~chris@124-170-48-86.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd 09:02:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 09:04:49 <Pikka> oh 09:10:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:11:51 <kamnet> oh, Pikka 09:11:53 <kamnet> ? 09:19:39 <kamnet> Hey Pikka, since you're here and I'm thinking about it, where can I find your template for planes? 09:21:20 <Pikka> I have a template for planes? 09:22:56 <kamnet> That's what I read 09:23:07 <Pikka> where? 09:23:31 <kamnet> early pages of WS development 09:23:34 <kamnet> WAS, even 09:24:05 <kamnet> Discussion on why they didn't just roll their work into planeset, or just become AV8+. 09:24:20 <supermop> live in melbourne now 09:25:07 <Pikka> well, I provided the greyscales for the initial aircraft for WAS, perhaps they're referring to those 09:28:25 <supermop> before that was new york, before that st louis, before that columbus 09:29:04 <supermop> i think you'll have to model/render the seaplanes kamnet 09:29:34 <Supercheese> well, is there a general render template? 09:29:48 <Supercheese> i.e. by how many degrees are planes inclined when climbing/landing/etc 09:29:53 <kamnet> They might be. I might have read it wrong too. 09:32:09 <supermop> could probably make up angles 09:32:11 <Pikka> I could tell you those numbers, certainly 09:32:19 <Pikka> but it's dinner time now, bbs :) 09:42:57 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 09:47:49 <kamnet> Here's why I like combing through old topics. You find crazy stuff like this: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=39227&start=220 09:53:08 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:02:15 <andythenorth> power power power plants 10:03:13 <supermop> do it 10:03:52 <supermop> but only wind, hydro, and other plants that would be utterly boring to interact with as a player 10:04:14 <supermop> deliver turbine blades to turbine 10:04:21 <supermop> stockpile size = 3 10:04:45 <supermop> stockpile comsumed 1 blade every 15 years 10:05:06 <kamnet> Hydro power plants. I've got NewGRF for that! 10:05:42 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@187.115.235.66] has joined #openttd 10:05:57 *** Compu [~quassel@2604:6000:120a:8001:b8c3:a25c:4000:6d00] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05:58 <kamnet> Those graphics are quite horrible, actually. 10:06:31 *** Compu [~quassel@2604:6000:120a:8001:b8c3:a25c:4000:6d00] has joined #openttd 10:07:35 <supermop> bootstrap plant by divering heavy equipment, turbines, boilers, generators, reactor vessels 10:07:44 <supermop> then never deliver again 10:07:52 <supermop> or not for 40 years or so 10:08:22 <supermop> off to get dinner myself 10:08:25 <supermop> later 10:08:35 <planetmaker> guten Mampf ;) 10:12:06 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.115.235.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:12:13 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 10:19:32 * andythenorth has been considering âunlock regions of the mapâ GameScripts 10:19:41 <andythenorth> âprovide powerâ could be an unlock 10:19:57 <andythenorth> a GS that founds towns 10:20:00 <andythenorth> you start with one town 10:20:03 <andythenorth> no power, no town 10:20:13 <andythenorth> it would need to make some fragile assumptions about the industry newgrf 10:21:51 <V453000> XD 10:23:02 <Pikka> kaboom 10:23:29 <kamnet> Everybody talking about getting dinner and I've not even had breakfast yet 10:25:02 <Pikka> fwiw aircraft in av8 climb at 20 degrees, Supercheese 10:25:49 <Pikka> and flare at 10 10:27:55 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 10:27:59 <Pikka> "Mr Coe said this did not phase the Canberra Liberals." 10:28:05 <Pikka> journalism is officially dead 10:28:57 <andythenorth> bonsoir Pikka 10:29:06 <andythenorth> ah your government and your journalists 10:29:35 <andythenorth> also power plants 10:29:37 <andythenorth> yes / no? 10:30:01 <planetmaker> andythenorth, seems you use strange encodings for at least one file: https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/firs/502/console 10:30:07 <planetmaker> which makes compilation fail 10:30:12 <Pikka> power plants maybe? 10:30:35 <Pikka> they're very traditional, which FIRS for the most part is not 10:31:14 <Pikka> and yes, my journalists who can't spell faze. 10:32:01 <kamnet> perhaps they meant phased, as in transitioning from one state of existence to another? 10:32:54 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@191.248.45.210] has joined #openttd 10:33:08 <kamnet> if the Canbera Liberals are still here, then indeed they were not phased at all! 10:36:18 *** Pereba [~UserNick@187.115.235.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:36:21 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 10:38:34 <andythenorth> planetmaker: thatâs a boo boo 10:40:26 * andythenorth pushes a fix 10:51:20 * andythenorth wonders why it was tripping up, itâs python 3, default encoding is assumed to be utf-8 10:52:21 <planetmaker> I wonder about that, too. But sometimes OSX uses some other fancy encodings unique to OSX 10:53:07 <andythenorth> I had a random unicode char that looked like a mis-type 10:53:24 <andythenorth> Ã¥ 10:53:39 * andythenorth doesnât know if thatâs utf-8 or not 10:59:28 *** Goddesen [~quassel@72.79-160-59.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 11:05:37 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has joined #openttd 11:09:39 <supermop> power unlock sounds good 11:25:24 <Pikka> http://pikkarail.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/TaI_Industry_Chain-01.png current state of pineapple industry planning. Too vanilla, or not vanilla enough? 11:28:04 <andythenorth> Pikka: so many arrows :o 11:28:08 <andythenorth> :) 11:28:27 <andythenorth> no pineapple cargo? 11:28:36 <Pikka> fruit plantation? :) 11:29:08 <planetmaker> hm... fruits... depicted as yeti-sized pineapples on flatbed wagons :) 11:29:09 <andythenorth> do economies 11:29:17 <andythenorth> forget climate variations, theyâre tedious :P 11:29:27 <Pikka> I have forgotten climate variations 11:29:35 <andythenorth> water? 11:29:40 <Pikka> except water, because of game mechanics 11:29:59 <Pikka> the olde towns-in-desert-won't-grow-without-it 11:30:54 <Pikka> also, forget economies. why draw and code industries you're not going to play with? :) 11:31:09 <andythenorth> I play more than one game of OpenTTD per year :P 11:31:29 <Pikka> but surely one economy is the best? ;) 11:32:07 <Pikka> put the good bits of the others into that, get rid of the bad bits. Now you have the bestest economy and no need for any others. 11:32:08 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest2234 11:32:12 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 11:32:18 <planetmaker> Pikka, the industry newgrf can define another cargo to fulfil water's purpose 11:32:25 <andythenorth> economies solve âtrying to make the perfect balanceâ 11:32:46 <Pikka> I know that planetmaker. But that doesn't solve tropic being different. :) 11:32:54 <Pikka> just adding water is the simplest solution. 11:33:20 <andythenorth> âjust add water" 11:33:25 <andythenorth> "for delicious cookiesâ 11:33:25 <Pikka> exactly 11:33:39 <planetmaker> true :) 11:33:42 <Pikka> hmm 11:33:53 <planetmaker> though I find water a bit strange cargo for a train game 11:34:02 <andythenorth> water train 11:34:15 <Pikka> maybe I'll put water supplies in all climates and make food processing plants accept it. as a homage to N3V. :) 11:34:50 <planetmaker> n3v? 11:35:15 <Pikka> the erstwhile Auran, developers of Trainz 11:35:54 *** Pereba_ [~UserNick@177.158.49.111] has joined #openttd 11:36:12 <andythenorth> Pikka: it looksâŠall fine 11:36:15 <andythenorth> but not very pikka-ish 11:36:29 <Pikka> the COO originally made his money from a bottled water company called neverfail, which is where the new name comes from. 11:36:41 <Pikka> not very pikkaish? it's mostly TaI :P 11:36:58 *** Guest2234 [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:38:35 *** Pereba [~UserNick@191.248.45.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:38:44 *** Pereba_ is now known as Pereba 11:41:31 <Pikka> oh, andy, I've also rethought having one truck per generation and just relying on refit... I'm back to seperate box, livestock, flat, hopper and tanker trucks :) 11:44:05 *** sla_ro|master2 [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 11:45:47 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@10.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 11:47:42 *** sla_ro|master [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:49:31 <supermop> sounds fine 11:49:53 <supermop> trucks are boring so it's a pain to have too many of them 11:50:05 <supermop> but 11:50:10 <supermop> simple is good 11:50:37 <supermop> why do brickworks take gasoline? 11:50:49 <Pikka> to fire the kilns 11:51:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B921.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 11:51:19 <supermop> not coal? 11:51:31 <Pikka> nope. because... 11:51:35 <supermop> our family's brickyard used wood then coal 11:51:46 <Pikka> well, they can run on fuel oil. or gas. 11:52:01 <Pikka> and there's already two destinations for coal, and only a dump for fuel oil. :) 11:52:06 <supermop> hmm 11:52:10 <supermop> tar for roads? 11:52:24 <andythenorth> Pikka: I am +1 to your truck choices 11:52:26 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:52:31 <supermop> refineries should make more than two products, but i guess that's not feasible 11:52:37 <andythenorth> âone truck and refitâ is soâŠ.logical :( 11:52:42 <andythenorth> logical does not fun make 11:52:56 <supermop> petrol could be tar or asphalt or whatever 11:52:58 <Pikka> also doesn't make for as many pretty variations :) 11:53:02 <andythenorth> also 11:53:04 <andythenorth> and also 11:53:09 <Pikka> but where does it go, supermop? 11:53:16 <supermop> tar? 11:53:18 <andythenorth> for economies without batshit number of cargos 11:53:19 <Pikka> yes 11:53:26 <andythenorth> lots of trucks are one-click-build, no refit 11:53:42 <Pikka> oh whoops 11:53:52 <Pikka> I've got the oil refinery producing 3 cargos, good point ;) 11:54:01 <andythenorth> patch openttd 11:54:05 <andythenorth> use random cargos cb? 11:54:05 <supermop> i don't know i guess it'd be bdmt in firs 11:54:12 * andythenorth just removed random cargos in FIRS 11:54:21 <supermop> so just goods in this, which is pointles...? 11:54:27 <andythenorth> add a port 11:54:28 <andythenorth> ports are fun 11:54:42 <Pikka> I could just combine plastic and rfpr, which is the 3rd cargo I just added. :) 11:54:46 <andythenorth> ports make it easy to fix gameplay imbalance 11:54:49 <supermop> fine chemicals refinery separate 11:54:49 <andythenorth> plastic is daft 11:55:00 <Pikka> I'll just call it all rfpr then, to both factories :) 11:55:02 <andythenorth> plastic is rfpr, or mnsp 11:55:14 <supermop> one makes heavy oil shit and gasoline, other makes chemicals and... other chemicals? 11:55:31 <supermop> idk 11:55:47 <Pikka> nope, one refinery, makes fuel and refined 11:56:01 <Pikka> two factories, one makes goods and one makes fm/en supplies :) 11:56:04 <supermop> andythenorth should add pubs to firs that produce empties 11:56:12 <andythenorth> FUEL is a missing cargo 11:56:16 <andythenorth> could be abused for much things 11:56:18 <Pikka> petr 11:56:20 <Pikka> is fuel 11:56:20 <andythenorth> FIRS should have FUEL 11:56:27 <andythenorth> I know, petrol :( 11:56:33 <Pikka> I call it fuel oil 11:56:39 <andythenorth> I tried that 11:56:45 <andythenorth> but it got changed :P 11:56:52 <andythenorth> Pikka: also huzzah, ships! 11:57:01 <andythenorth> me and Dan have decided Squid is Shit 11:57:01 <Pikka> that's what you get for open-sourcing your translations :) 11:57:02 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@71.12.36.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:57:10 <andythenorth> new Squid! 11:57:11 <andythenorth> better 11:57:15 <andythenorth> Octopus 11:57:30 <Pikka> Calamari Jane 11:57:39 <andythenorth> moar ships 11:57:41 <andythenorth> or different 11:58:49 <Pikka> the real question is 11:59:00 <Pikka> am I allowed to call "refined products" "chemicals"? 11:59:04 <andythenorth> I do 11:59:08 <Pikka> good 11:59:09 <Pikka> then I shall 11:59:13 <andythenorth> I would 11:59:15 <andythenorth> I do in fact 11:59:17 <andythenorth> frequently 11:59:36 <Pikka> factory accepts chemicals, steel and lumber 11:59:43 <Pikka> supply factory accepts chemicals, steel and goods 11:59:58 <Pikka> that's going to trip people up when they try and deliver lumber to the supply factory :D 12:00:02 <andythenorth> I went rogue in tropic 12:00:06 <andythenorth> no refiney, this instead http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#chemical_plant 12:00:17 <andythenorth> "refineyâ 12:00:21 <Pikka> si 12:01:04 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@71.12.36.79] has joined #openttd 12:01:13 <Pikka> I reeeeeeeeeeally want to use JAVA but it doesn't really fit. I'll just have to do a coffee variation on the fruit plantation. 12:01:34 <Pikka> JAVA would be good for toyland though, mugs on a flatbed. 12:01:46 <andythenorth> coffee is fun 12:01:57 <andythenorth> apparently the second most valuable commidity in the developing world 12:01:59 <andythenorth> after oil 12:02:05 <andythenorth> whatever that means 12:02:15 <Pikka> it's particularly fun since its accepting industry returns farm supplies :) 12:02:44 <supermop> the problem with ports, is that the max out too easily 12:03:02 <andythenorth> in FIRS? 12:03:22 <supermop> if i have a cluster of coffee plantations, just one of them will quickly push the trading post to gung ho 12:03:44 <supermop> then, i can supply the rest with supplies too but whats the point 12:04:02 <Pikka> to make more coffee 12:04:19 <Pikka> getting the trading post gung ho is not the point, exporting maximum coffee is! 12:04:46 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:04:57 <supermop> i am incentivized to build a bunch of trading posts near each other 12:05:18 <Pikka> sounds "realistic" to me 12:05:46 <supermop> and then what the hell do i do with so many supplies? 12:05:57 <andythenorth> profit! 12:05:58 <andythenorth> dunno 12:06:06 <andythenorth> watch them annoyingly build up at stations 12:06:11 <supermop> i guess its fine 12:06:25 <andythenorth> mostly wonder why cdist assigns 5,000 crates to one of the 9 routes you have at a port? 12:06:31 <andythenorth> whilst starving the other routes? 12:06:48 <supermop> i usually can get around that with timetabing 12:06:56 <Pikka> there, ctrl-f5 http://pikkarail.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/TaI_Industry_Chain-01.png 12:07:01 <andythenorth> you canât even collect the 5,000 crates because there is a line of trucks waiting for the other routes to be allocated one crate per month 12:07:04 <Pikka> Rfpr all the way 12:07:12 <andythenorth> I would 12:07:13 <andythenorth> nice pink 12:07:18 <supermop> easiest to have each farm take a truck every 10 days or so, then they all get an ok amount 12:07:35 <supermop> but extra crates do tend to lump towards the first connected farm 12:07:38 <andythenorth> only if if cdist assigns it 12:07:51 <andythenorth> Pikka: slag is interesting 12:07:54 <andythenorth> been wondering about that 12:08:05 <supermop> well if no trucks are full load, all of them are stay 10 then leave its ok 12:08:17 <andythenorth> powder ash and kiln cement 12:08:19 <supermop> just dont connect one farm then wait years to do the next 12:08:25 <andythenorth> eh, that is my error 12:08:28 <andythenorth> hmm 12:08:33 <andythenorth> too late now :P 12:08:56 <supermop> it's very deterministic 12:08:58 <Pikka> I went with slag for both because gameplay > realism ;) 12:09:10 <supermop> which is nice in some ways 12:09:17 * andythenorth considers it 12:09:24 <andythenorth> probably will at some point 12:09:36 <andythenorth> 22 industries in TaI? 12:09:47 <supermop> because you can hit the ceiling in a few years or less and then do not need to rework your timetabled network in unpredictable ways later 12:09:56 <Pikka> 21 12:10:04 <Pikka> one of those squares is "town" 12:10:12 <andythenorth> add a few more :) 12:10:13 <supermop> pikka grassland replaces temperate? 12:10:24 <andythenorth> coffee coffee coffee 12:10:34 <andythenorth> brewery? 12:10:41 <Pikka> location info for tropic, supermop 12:10:44 <andythenorth> anything at sea? 12:10:53 <supermop> yeah where's the beer 12:10:58 <Pikka> nothing but oilrigs. and even oilrigs are annoying. 12:11:12 <Pikka> the beer is food from the food processing plant :P 12:11:32 <supermop> anything in rainforest then? 12:11:49 <Pikka> I don't think I differentiate 12:11:58 <Pikka> between grass and rainforest 12:12:44 <andythenorth> space launch platform? 12:12:47 <andythenorth> Kerbal OpenTTD? 12:12:56 <supermop> metabolist floating megacities? 12:13:07 * andythenorth considers a space economy 12:13:16 <andythenorth> Dan and I have been havingâŠ.ideas :P 12:13:32 <andythenorth> why have a balanced model of the macro-economy? 12:13:42 <andythenorth> when you could go deep on some specific thing 12:13:50 <andythenorth> maximum nerd 12:14:01 <supermop> balance is no fun 12:14:28 <supermop> speculative home construction based economy 12:15:36 <andythenorth> vegas economy 12:15:46 <andythenorth> accepts: people 12:16:00 <andythenorth> produces: hungover people with no money 12:16:05 <andythenorth> BrisVegas :P 12:16:06 <supermop> citadis c2 just drove over beer can stuck in tracks outside 12:16:15 <supermop> interesting sound 12:18:07 <supermop> mczapkie posts basically what i just said about power plants... 12:18:22 <kamnet> stealing all your good ideas 12:18:45 <kamnet> Andythenorth, what all have you eliminated from FIRS since you started? 12:19:02 <supermop> trash 12:19:22 <supermop> m going to watch some seinfeld 12:19:57 <andythenorth> kamnet: most of it 12:20:05 <andythenorth> boatloads of it 12:20:25 <kamnet> Seinfeld? Man, how quaint. 12:20:35 <kamnet> Anybody seen the new Daredevil series? 12:21:09 <kamnet> What if the next FIRS was all the stuff you threw away from the last FIRS? 12:21:21 <andythenorth> yes that would suck 12:21:33 <supermop> what if seinfeld were modern? 12:22:50 <V453000> XD 12:23:59 <kamnet> Then J Peterman would be dead now 12:24:44 <supermop> laine get ipad 12:26:28 <supermop> old timey brick sheds: slate shingle roof? 12:26:32 <supermop> metal roof? 12:26:39 <kamnet> shingle 12:26:46 <supermop> i just just grey noise in 8b 12:26:52 <supermop> just used 12:27:37 <supermop> what about the terracotta block and concrete? i used the same texture in 8bpp but maybe corrugated makes more sense? 12:28:08 <supermop> could be dark dingy grey corrugated instead of galvanized 12:29:37 <supermop> hard to find textures of these dudes: 12:29:39 <kamnet> sure 12:29:39 <supermop> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/Porotherm_style_clay_block_brick_angle_1.jpg/800px-Porotherm_style_clay_block_brick_angle_1.jpg 12:29:47 <supermop> let alone free tiling ones 12:31:12 <supermop> some brick or tile should pass for it at scale 12:31:46 <supermop> want a free version of this: http://thumb101.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/1323667/209022607/stock-photo-hollow-interlocking-clay-block-wall-front-view-209022607.jpg 12:34:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:35:31 <supermop> oooh i just found 8bpp railtype sprites i made years ago 12:36:25 <supermop> in 2x and 4x zoom 12:36:46 <supermop> now i remember why i decided to nver again do pixel art 12:37:53 <V453000> XD 12:38:26 <supermop> i never even got to the monorail 12:38:47 <supermop> the idea was a full tile of ballast to make yards look less weird 12:39:01 <supermop> i guess these could be used as is 12:39:33 <V453000> show us ! :D 12:39:37 <supermop> they are more dingy that rendered shit though 12:40:27 <supermop> which of my opened ended fruitless topics should i go off topic in by posting these 12:43:54 <planetmaker> I can only offer you those worn bricks, supermop : https://plus.google.com/photos/107191069901530811927/albums/6138316160834814833?authkey=CLnKwIe6hue7dQ 12:45:13 <supermop> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1147306#p1147306 12:46:36 <supermop> ok i only need to model and render 56 'buildings' by june to make a 32bpp version in under 5 years 12:47:24 <supermop> that and get help fixing whatever is wrong with the code, and adding code for fences 12:47:40 <supermop> and replace red pavement on brick sheds with grey 12:49:43 <supermop> ..i actually did draw 8bpp monorails too, and foundations... 12:50:30 <supermop> ok sein time 12:50:32 <supermop> later 13:00:33 *** ChrisM [~chris@124-170-48-86.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:11:28 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-74-73-132-105.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 13:11:30 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 13:21:24 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 13:56:06 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc20-stap11-2-0-cust392.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 14:02:18 *** Pikka [~Octomom@203-206-161-219.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:13:20 *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:20:45 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.105.4] has joined #openttd 14:37:47 *** Celestar [~Celestar@fire3.tngtech.com] has left #openttd [] 14:37:56 *** roidal [~roland@cm140-210.liwest.at] has joined #openttd 15:44:38 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 15:44:41 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 15:55:08 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:03:25 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:07:55 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 16:18:16 *** Utpal [~oftc-webi@202.166.198.8] has joined #openttd 16:21:53 *** Utpal [~oftc-webi@202.166.198.8] has quit [] 16:23:25 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:46 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1983C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:33:35 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:36:13 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@10.87.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:49:55 <luaduck> does having reload_cfg on mean we can't have random seed generation at map reset time? 16:50:04 <luaduck> our seed has been stuck for a week 16:50:34 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:50:36 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:50:36 <luaduck> or is this going to be some stupid fix like "set generation_seed to 0" 16:54:41 <planetmaker> luaduck, yes, reload_cfg will reload the cfg - including the random seed stored in it 16:55:05 <luaduck> can that be overridden in any way? 16:55:18 <luaduck> or is disabling reload_cfg the only way 16:56:11 <Rubidium> have you tried removing the seed from the config file? 16:56:34 <Rubidium> i.e. remove the whole line with generation_seed 16:56:39 <luaduck> I get the feeling it'll just write that out though 16:56:53 <luaduck> especially if we ever did a config save 16:57:46 <Rubidium> alternatively use 2**32-1 as seed 17:01:44 <luaduck> that sounds more likely to work 17:02:03 <luaduck> I wasn't aware the seed took arythmatic operators though 17:03:04 <planetmaker> it doesn't. It's just more visible to write 2^32-1 or LONG_MAX than ... 17:03:09 <planetmaker> @calc 2**32-1 17:03:09 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 4294967295 17:03:12 <planetmaker> ^ 17:04:19 <glx> else it takes 2 I think 17:19:40 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d011cb0.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 17:21:14 *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@i210033.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 17:33:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:37:04 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387A8E5.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:06:36 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:07:30 *** kamnet is now known as kamnet|AFK 18:07:36 <andythenorth> cat says âwoof' 18:07:53 <Alberth> oh dear, some bad mixup 18:10:26 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:10:29 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 18:11:05 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@port-92-195-140-93.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:13:51 *** ub_umstieg [~chatzilla@88.134.130.45] has joined #openttd 18:14:09 <ub_umstieg> Hi is there a way ti detect a traffic train jam 18:15:17 <Alberth> turn on negative profit warnings is one way 18:15:24 <ub_umstieg> it is displayed at a yearchage but this is a long time 18:15:29 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-178-81.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 18:15:51 <ub_umstieg> Alberth: in the settings 18:15:53 <Alberth> you can also look at the minimap to check whether all trains seem to be moving 18:16:25 <ub_umstieg> minimap at 2048x2048 is not a good look at 18:16:43 <Alberth> yeah, too big 18:17:08 <ub_umstieg> and profit warning im gone check but maybee spams me up to the ears 18:17:29 <Alberth> trains also throw 'no path to destination' warnings after a while 18:17:46 <Alberth> at least they do with me 18:18:02 <Alberth> but I don't know when they do that exactly 18:18:47 <Alberth> the best solution is to make networks that don't jam, of course :p 18:18:49 <ub_umstieg> this woudt be a good feather to give them a time value in settings throw on 10day stuck for example 18:19:15 <Alberth> they do turn around at some point 18:19:23 <Alberth> but some people have disabled that 18:19:26 <ub_umstieg> Alberth: agree on that but the map generater offen discard this on to low space 18:20:00 <ub_umstieg> turn around with main route full is the reasen for total jam 18:20:34 <ub_umstieg> only train depo is he jam cleaner 18:20:35 <Alberth> always fun to clean up :) 18:21:23 <Alberth> but it seems that you're no having enough space on the main line then 18:21:33 <ub_umstieg> sometimes its a mess on high load industries in bvig populated areas 18:22:11 <ub_umstieg> ok im fine THANKS to all that are providing s much fun to me 18:22:33 <ub_umstieg> i play only one game per Humen jear 18:22:50 *** ub_umstieg [~chatzilla@88.134.130.45] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 36.0.4/20150321175551]] 18:23:10 <Alberth> I never finish a game :) 18:29:54 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has joined #openttd 18:34:03 <andythenorth> âfinishâ 18:34:05 <andythenorth> is an odd word 18:36:49 *** roidal [~roland@cm140-210.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1] 18:41:52 <andythenorth> hmm 18:41:55 <andythenorth> subclassing twice 18:41:58 <andythenorth> _probably_ ok 18:53:05 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.99.147] has joined #openttd 18:54:27 <andythenorth> flat docks anyone? o_O 18:54:32 * andythenorth would draw the sprites 18:57:59 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:58:18 <Wolf01> o/ 18:59:07 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:00:31 <Alberth> hi hi 19:03:46 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:07:13 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.179.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:20:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6B51B.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:26:05 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~flex@i59F6B921.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:46:02 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:00:06 *** DanMacK [~3fee8a84@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has joined #openttd 20:00:14 <DanMacK> Hey all 20:00:40 <Alberth> hi hi 20:03:58 <andythenorth> @seen danmack 20:03:58 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: danmack was last seen in #openttd 3 minutes and 44 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all 20:19:46 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:24:56 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 20:26:21 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d011cb0.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 20:37:17 *** AbsoluteVeritas [~|Truth|@c-73-177-155-170.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 20:42:02 *** |Truth| [~|Truth|@c-73-177-155-170.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:51:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 20:55:29 *** namad7 [aaaaa@pool-173-71-186-192.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 20:56:20 *** sla_ro|master2 [~sla.ro@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 20:56:33 *** kamnet|AFK is now known as kamnet 20:57:44 *** namad7 [aaaaa@pool-173-71-186-192.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 21:05:39 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@107.165.199.146.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 21:10:40 <Wolf01> 'night 21:10:46 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:14:13 *** gelignite [~gelignite@i5387A8E5.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 21:16:04 *** Suicyder [~Suicyder@86.92.59.88] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Nine out of ten l33t h4x0rz prefer it] 21:26:33 *** kamnet is now known as kamnet|AFK 21:37:13 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-180-60.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:46:10 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1983C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:49 *** kamnet|AFK is now known as kamnet 21:48:35 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 21:49:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 21:53:45 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc10-aztw26-2-0-cust867.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [] 22:07:09 *** supermop [~supermop@d210-49-171-146.sun801.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 22:20:16 *** shirish [~quassel@117.195.113.91] has joined #openttd 22:24:56 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-180-60.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 22:27:05 *** shirish_ [~quassel@117.195.99.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:28:30 *** shirish [~quassel@0001358e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:32:26 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@90.149.87.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:35:46 *** wicope [~wicope@0001fd8a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:35 *** OsteHovel [~OsteHovel@90.149.87.140] has joined #openttd 22:41:09 *** DanMacK [~3fee8a84@188.cimarosa.openttdcoop.org] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:43:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~flex@i59F6B51B.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:56:05 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:27 *** glx [~glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:a153:10ab:a966:220c] has joined #openttd 23:45:50 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@198.18.200.146.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 23:50:17 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 23:52:40 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@107.165.199.146.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:52:40 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink