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00:08:43 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 00:21:07 *** LadyHawk [~LadyHawk@5751e87a.skybroadband.com] has joined #openttd 00:41:38 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 00:48:11 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 00:53:48 <Wolf01> 'night 00:53:50 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 00:54:18 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d08e10b.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 01:01:20 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 01:23:53 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d08e10b.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:34:15 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:38:22 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 02:00:02 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:00:24 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:11:51 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest9724 02:11:52 *** [1]sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 02:11:53 *** [1]sim-al2 is now known as sim-al2 02:16:23 *** Guest9724 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:47:16 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:56:50 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-58-247.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:57:03 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-58-247.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 03:34:50 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@179.234.183.59] has joined #openttd 03:37:58 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.183.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:26:55 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: I'll be Bach] 05:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD5316.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 05:56:15 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p5B0DA229.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 07:08:29 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 07:24:40 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 07:41:52 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:27:38 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 09:42:35 *** Klanticus [~quassel@179.234.183.59] has joined #openttd 09:45:52 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@179.234.183.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:49:34 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host105-62-dynamic.252-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:49:43 <Wolf01> hi hi 10:02:36 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@xd9bf07c9.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 10:52:16 *** Flygon_ [~Flygon@ppp118-209-58-247.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 10:59:10 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-58-247.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:59:57 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:23:37 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 11:26:21 *** Pensacola [~quassel@88.159.51.52] has joined #openttd 11:26:43 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:41:32 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@xd9bf07c9.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:14:51 *** Pensacola [~quassel@88.159.51.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause> followup: https://github.com/narkoz/hacker-scripts 12:30:42 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:17 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:45:22 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 12:48:44 <__ln___> http://www.brendangregg.com/Slides/QCon2015_Broken_Performance_Tools.pdf 13:36:56 <Wolf01> tl;dr 13:37:12 <Wolf01> but i think i got the idea 13:42:38 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:56:07 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 14:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause> video of the talk might be more helpful 14:35:07 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 14:36:50 <Mazur> Oh, you've finally had "the talk"? 14:38:51 <Mazur> Shouldn't your dad or mom have taken you apart for that years ago? 15:08:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what you're talking about. 15:10:29 <Mazur> Never mind, then. (It was a joke). 15:14:04 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 15:36:09 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 15:36:12 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 15:40:40 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 15:41:34 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 15:43:57 <Alberth> moin 15:45:16 <andythenorth> o/ 15:45:33 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host105-62-dynamic.252-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 15:48:02 <Mazur> You said it, not I. 16:43:31 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 16:57:39 * andythenorth considers adding Yet Another Port to FIRS 16:57:49 <andythenorth> currently have: Bulk Terminal, Trading Post, Port 16:58:00 <Alberth> make a port economy :p 16:58:29 <andythenorth> this is a spiffing idea 16:58:33 <andythenorth> Only Ports 16:59:12 <Alberth> it may need a space port? :) 17:00:13 <Alberth> or an 'air' port 17:01:44 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 17:07:13 *** TheMask96 [martijn@envy.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:12:19 *** TheMask96 [martijn@wrath.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:16:54 *** Stimrol [~Stimrol@46-239-220-130.tal.is] has joined #openttd 17:16:54 *** Stimrol_ [~Stimrol@46-239-220-130.tal.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6BC99.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:30:05 *** Zuu [~Zuu@213.80.114.162] has joined #openttd 17:34:45 *** sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 17:36:02 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:45:29 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:45:32 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:56:15 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1961D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:05:08 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:25:47 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:40:40 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-162.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #openttd 18:45:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27456 /trunk/src/lang (korean.txt spanish.txt) (2015-11-24 19:45:15 +0100 ) 18:45:25 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 18:45:26 <DorpsGek> korean - 7 changes by telk5093 18:45:27 <DorpsGek> spanish - 4 changes by SilverSurferZzZ 18:47:17 *** Zuu [~Zuu@213.80.114.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:35 *** gelignite [~gelignite@f048234163.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 19:09:54 *** Zuu_ [~Zuu@h-114-162.a98.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:16:22 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 19:19:08 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-177.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 19:29:41 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d01258c.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 19:30:22 <Alberth> hoi 19:30:33 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:30:48 <Alberth> and hi 19:30:55 <frosch123> hola hi hoi 19:32:10 <frosch123> do you have a good idea for commandline options to lang_sync to upload specific languages? 19:32:24 <frosch123> currently there is "upload-base" and "upload-translations" 19:32:58 <frosch123> i wonder about adding new commands like "upload-dutch", "upload-nl_NL" 19:33:10 <frosch123> or to add other parameters 19:33:28 <frosch123> "--lang dutch --lang de_DE upload-translations" 19:33:36 <frosch123> both don't look good :) 19:34:04 <Alberth> hmm, there is not the option to list the languages? 19:34:51 <frosch123> no :p 19:35:04 <andythenorth> o/ 19:35:05 <frosch123> it only distinguishes base and non-base 19:35:23 <Alberth> ah, indeed, must be confused with some other language tool 19:35:40 <frosch123> combining the language name with the "upload-" prefix would looks somewhat consistent 19:35:48 <frosch123> but is non-standard at best :) 19:35:57 <Alberth> yep, I like that idea 19:36:31 <Alberth> like cat --file a --file b ? 19:41:38 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/piccl5c09 19:42:01 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:44:57 <Alberth> 1 looks best to me, imho 19:45:39 <Alberth> they make "base" and "translations" an abbreviation/alternative 19:46:06 <frosch123> yup, i also like 1 19:47:36 <frosch123> but it cannot be extended to also accept filenames 19:51:14 <Alberth> hmm :( 19:51:54 <Alberth> --upload "dutch german foo.txt" ? 19:52:15 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:52:20 <Alberth> bit tricky if you have spaces in the filename :p 19:52:32 <frosch123> yup, it needs multiple --upload 19:52:48 <frosch123> --upload-file foo.txt --upload-lang dutch 19:53:19 <Alberth> not too bad, since it's a script anyway, normally 19:53:48 <Alberth> manually, you'd do 1 file at a time, I guess 19:54:34 <frosch123> well, this leads to either 3 or 4 19:54:40 <frosch123> but then i prefer 3 19:56:09 <Alberth> 3 needs upload/download to be added? 19:56:32 <Alberth> or does "--lang dutch" do both? 19:57:27 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 19:58:42 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pbduu7epq 20:00:01 <frosch123> --file doesn't really make sense for download 20:00:07 <frosch123> --lang could also work for download 20:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause> why wouldn't "download --file=german.txt" make sense? 20:02:26 <Eddi|zuHause> or let me rephrase that: define a semantics, let the user make sense of the semantics? 20:02:49 <frosch123> what would it do? 20:03:06 <frosch123> if german.txt exists, it would read the langid from that file, and then download the language 20:03:11 <frosch123> if it does not exist, it does what? 20:03:32 <frosch123> people could think to combine it with --lang, but that makes everything even more inconsistent 20:04:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so, it doesn't internally keep track of filenames? 20:04:22 <frosch123> depends :p 20:04:40 <frosch123> newgrfs use the ##grflangid, and don't care about the filename 20:04:51 <frosch123> gamescripts only use the filename, there is no id within the file 20:04:55 <frosch123> openttd, i forgot 20:05:09 <Alberth> should have ##grflangid :p 20:05:25 <Alberth> I copied them from there 20:05:38 <Eddi|zuHause> ok. semantics: get the file (if available), throw error message if not. 20:06:17 <Alberth> good night, I trust you will make something sane :) 20:06:43 <frosch123> maybe i make coffee :p 20:07:37 <Eddi|zuHause> fucking-coffee.sh? 20:07:42 <Alberth> that sounds sane :) 20:07:45 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:13:33 <Rubidium> frosch123: I would definitely use the iso language code, otherwise someone will try "upload-english" 20:14:09 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-177.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:14:20 <Rubidium> and which English is it (also, how to handle parentheses and spaces?) 20:15:36 <frosch123> https://translator.openttdcoop.org/language-list <- there is only one "english" in third column 20:17:00 <Eddi|zuHause> LANGNAME obviously needs "" if it contains special characters. and filenames as well, but no sane person should do that 20:17:19 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that's what the shell handles for you 20:17:27 <frosch123> i don't need to care about that 20:17:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 20:17:53 <Rubidium> frosch123: true, but that isn't the language but rather a file name without extension 20:18:07 <frosch123> ok, but it is what i meant :p 20:20:57 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has joined #openttd 20:24:12 *** sla_ro|master2 [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:46:21 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 20:57:27 <planetmaker> frosch123, my 2ct on eints new parameters: 3) "lang_sync --lang dutch --lang de_DE upload-translations" (filter parameter, default="all languages") looks best to me 20:58:47 <frosch123> i guess that's what we concluded with :) 21:00:13 <planetmaker> oki :) 21:02:30 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@72.1.195.4] has joined #openttd 21:02:31 <drac_boy> hi 21:18:28 <andythenorth> gold or not gold? 21:19:26 <drac_boy> for what? :) 21:20:43 <andythenorth> FIRS economy 21:20:48 <andythenorth> basic arctic 21:21:21 <drac_boy> hmm...where would the gold had been going to if it was to exist? 21:21:27 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-177.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 21:22:22 <frosch123> is chemicals your new favorite cargo? 21:22:55 <andythenorth> apparently 21:23:02 <andythenorth> it was always a big deal in FIRS :P 21:23:12 <andythenorth> âbetter living through chemistryâ etc 21:23:42 <andythenorth> http://www.carriepackard.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/DuPont-Logo.jpg 21:26:06 * andythenorth considers renaming chemicals to âstuffâ 21:26:31 <andythenorth> âmatterâ, âabstract conceptsâ, âformal relations' 21:27:00 <andythenorth> philosophical economy :P 21:27:13 <andythenorth> âdeliver 21 crates of reasonâ 21:27:22 <drac_boy> as long as you got a good name for beef ;) 21:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause> isn't gold mining something you'd rather find in 3rd world countries? 21:27:48 <drac_boy> eddi well africa may have a lot of the diamond mines but they still also exist in bc,canada .. australia .. etc 21:27:53 <drac_boy> unrelated but just an example 21:28:44 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 21:28:46 <drac_boy> and btw eddi sorry to ask but what was the acroymn you mentioned again re that other electrical-than-physical brake system on some of the berlin bahn? 21:29:26 * andythenorth might ignore gold 21:29:31 <Eddi|zuHause> ETCS 21:29:33 <andythenorth> thereâs enough cargos, strictly 21:29:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember using any other acronyms 21:29:59 <Eddi|zuHause> ETCS is the new european standard 21:30:04 <drac_boy> ah .. etcs .. no wonder I mispelled it and wondered why I couldn't figure out anything 21:30:09 <drac_boy> thanks 21:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it's meant to make european railroads more interchangable. but it's probably 50 years away from achieving that :p 21:31:23 <andythenorth> always start early :P 21:31:41 <andythenorth> do I need a tyre plant? 21:31:45 <andythenorth> could deliver rubber to plastics plant 21:31:50 <drac_boy> if I had a few lines of my own I wouldn't had bother..but to our own on that tho 21:31:50 <Eddi|zuHause> well, railways still use mechanical signalling systems that were installed over 100 years ago... 21:32:12 * andythenorth could use synthetic rubber only 21:33:14 <sim-al2> I think most countries are slowly removing the remaining mechanical signals now 21:33:31 <drac_boy> beside it seem pointless to have overlaps anyway 21:33:36 <sim-al2> In favor of color lights or just straight to cab signaling 21:33:36 <drac_boy> oh and hi sim-a12 21:33:38 <sim-al2> hi 21:33:57 <drac_boy> how doing? 21:34:00 <sim-al2> good 21:34:19 <sim-al2> and you? 21:34:56 <andythenorth> ha ha https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM9qGZCc4DY 21:35:00 <andythenorth> Wolf01: ^ 21:35:14 <andythenorth> that is neat, and definitely a bit over-engineered 21:35:24 <sim-al2> So here's a question for you Eddi: Do the mainline railways in Europe use signal overlaps? 21:35:39 *** rahtgaz [~rahtgaz@00021442.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:37:28 <drac_boy> doing ok.long morning to early afternoon but being bit lazy for now before sorting out supper and a bit of paperworks altogether :-> 21:38:41 <frosch123> sim-al2: according to german wikipedia, 1 in 100000 trains stop after passing the signals 21:39:06 <frosch123> 50% stop less than 10 meter after the signal, 10% stop more than 50 meter after the signal 21:39:58 <frosch123> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durchrutschweg#Deutschland <- there is a table with speed limits and required safe distance after signals 21:40:06 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@84.48.176.134] has joined #openttd 21:40:11 *** Bluelight [~chatzilla@84.48.176.134] has quit [] 21:41:53 * drac_boy also had a bit fun not even finding any good photos of the rhb g 3/4 locomotive in normal operation either :-> 21:42:09 <Rubidium> frosch123: what does 1:100.000 trains mean? Is a train the phyisical thing, or the planned thing (i.e. one physical train being planned as multiple trains), and is it per passing of signal or per day or per ??? 21:42:33 <sim-al2> Interesting, I read on a forum (so maybe not correct) that the signaling setup used by Amtrak (Northeast Corridor) does not allow for an overlap 21:43:16 <Eddi|zuHause> <sim-al2> I think most countries are slowly removing the remaining mechanical signals now <-- the emphasis is on "slow" 21:43:18 <Rubidium> in the NLs there were 49 trains that passed a red signal 21:43:25 <andythenorth> SPADs :P 21:43:39 <andythenorth> there is an entire YT sub-genre about SPADs 21:43:55 <andythenorth> but then there is probably an entire YT sub-genre for every word in the dictionary 21:44:29 <sim-al2> And furthermore, the ACSES (safety system) forces a stop short of a signal, and if the post I read was correct, doesn't allow a train to approach the signal without using the override button (which requires dispatcher permission) 21:44:36 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: rule 34? 21:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> sim-al2: so that just means the safety distance is _before_ the signal, not _after_ it? 21:45:37 <frosch123> Rubidium: per "train is approaching red signal and needs to stop" 21:45:45 <drac_boy> and have any of you ever seen a koploper and tgv swiped together? :) 21:46:25 <sim-al2> Apparently (according to some thread posts), if a signal is at the end of a platform, a train couldn't even draw up to the platform without permission 21:46:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i've never (physically) seen either a koploper or a tgv 21:47:34 <Eddi|zuHause> sim-al2: well. i know almost nothing about "foreign" signalling systems 21:47:35 <drac_boy> eddi well I dunno why I seem to be able to recall it but it was a strange one where one train (I believe it was the tgv) crept past a red signal and of course the computer didn't act because it was below 20kph .. and swiped into the path of other train 21:47:54 <drac_boy> and heres the aftermath of it https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3279/2931475647_d34bed6338_b.jpg 21:48:14 <drac_boy> apparently the system they had didn't work at crawl speeds 21:48:31 <Rubidium> drac_boy: s/had/have/ 21:49:04 <drac_boy> I believe it was amended/replaced already .. or thats what one of the outcome objective was 21:49:07 <Rubidium> though they're improving it by some tweaks 21:49:40 <Rubidium> but a) they haven't finished yet, b) they started with the high risk locations, c) I doubt they'll ever finish it 21:49:46 <sim-al2> Isn't that a problem with the old ATS though, in that it didn't have a stop enforcement component, only that acknowledgement was required? 21:51:21 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1961D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:23 <sim-al2> Ok found the post if anyone wants to read through it: (starts here and a few posts down http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=153612&p=1235239&hilit=ACSES+stop+short#p1235239) 21:51:46 <Rubidium> drac_boy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpg6onAv3fQ <- another Koploper ;) 21:51:49 <sim-al2> I just find the idea weird that signaling practices could vary so much 21:52:18 <sim-al2> Considering that otherwise many signaling practices are found worldwide 21:52:30 <drac_boy> ohh yeah that reminds me of a more grim accident .. I still rather seriously believe that the Talgo 730 should not have a genset thats mounted way above the chassis line without the trainset's maximum speed at *any* time being derated accordingly 21:52:57 <sim-al2> I like that the bicyclists immediatly back up 21:53:07 <drac_boy> (yep that spain curve overspeed where it was the diesel car that first started the derailing) 21:53:30 <sim-al2> Rubidium: Did the train split the switch there? 21:54:30 <Rubidium> the switch actuator broke which caused the trailing wagons to take another route, but the train remained connected 21:54:48 <sim-al2> In the Talgo derailment, the train was very much over the speed limit anyway, the generator car just happened to be the first to go, the locomotive probably would have gone if the train was much faster 21:56:30 <drac_boy> sim-a12 well the problem is..derailing with equal gravity would had been less messy than the heavy car jacking thing ... just ask the prior tgv accidents 21:56:31 <Eddi|zuHause> sim-al2: the problem there was at the end of the new high-speed signalling system it didn't enforce lowering the speed to the "normal" level 21:56:41 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:57:02 <Rubidium> well, time for ERTMS level 3 21:57:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so the train took a 80km/h curve with like 200km/h 21:57:45 * Rubidium wonders what happened with the French system one and a half week ago 21:58:00 * andythenorth wondered that too 21:58:05 <sim-al2> It's true that the signaling system was not adequete for the end of a high-speed segment therw 21:58:17 <drac_boy> ouch .. that koploper splitting it .. thankful for the platforms to "contain" it from doing a zig-zag onto the ground 21:58:26 <drac_boy> (I think....anyway) 21:58:52 <sim-al2> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eckwersheim_derailment 21:58:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: what exploded there at 0:16? 21:59:13 <sim-al2> Looks like the catenary shorted out on the train? 21:59:28 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it's the catenary shorting 21:59:29 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the catenary short circuited 21:59:38 <Rubidium> drac_boy: what platforms? 21:59:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i think it was a test run above the speed limit, and the brake was too late 22:00:36 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: 10% above speed limit, and at least 1 minute late... and you reckon one of the seven in the cab would have noticed it earlier... 22:00:40 <sim-al2> The article claims 90km/h above the speed limit 22:01:12 <Rubidium> sim-al2: the test run was for 10% above the speed limit, but due to breaking too late it was way way over speed 22:01:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i don't think signalling helps for such exception tests 22:02:07 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 22:02:16 <Eddi|zuHause> they probably disabled some security systems 22:02:31 <sim-al2> Yes, it took a curve far too fast at the junction between the new segment and the exisiting track 22:02:33 <sim-al2> http://www.sncf.com/ressources/rapport_denquete_deraillement_rame_dessai_814521_sur_le_raccordement_de_la_lgv_ee_le_14_novembre_2015.pdf 22:03:15 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: most of the wagons did not leave the rails, no platforms involved 22:03:29 <sim-al2> The scheduled speed was 176km/h, but the train entered at 265km/h 22:04:44 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: both TVM-430 and ERTMS were disabled 22:04:46 <Eddi|zuHause> sim-al2: i don't speak enough french to understand that 22:04:52 <glx> Rubidium: braking 10s too late 22:05:14 <glx> and way too many people in a test train 22:05:19 <sim-al2> And derailed at 243km/h , I think the curve was 945m radius 22:05:46 <sim-al2> I don't either, but I know what I'm looking for (and Google translate :) ) 22:06:25 <Rubidium> http://www.sncf.com/ressources/shema_des_vitesses.jpg 22:07:02 <Rubidium> glx: and the graph says 1 km... my mistake (I remembered wrong) 22:07:03 <Eddi|zuHause> so it was 1km too late 22:10:34 <sim-al2> Appearently some employees had their children onboard 22:11:12 <drac_boy> looks like the talgo diesel was mounted right over the truck (rather than slung low on the chassis rails?) with a 6600kg weight (which I assume is the total car weight but likely more than half of that nearly halfway up) 22:11:21 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d01258c.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:11:34 <drac_boy> 1800kW engine 22:12:31 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: i don't see how that is relevant 22:13:11 <drac_boy> if it was not so heavy on gravity (or mounted properly low to more match the existing trainset) it wouldn't had been as bad 22:13:55 <sim-al2> The locomotive has a decent center of gravity too, the speed was traveling so fast that anything could have caused a derailment 22:14:08 <sim-al2> *train was traveling 22:14:25 <drac_boy> sim-a12 except that if it was the front to come first it would had been a different lighter fail 22:14:57 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: that is pure speculation 22:15:01 <sim-al2> There's still a concrete wall on the outside of an 80km/h curve 22:15:05 <drac_boy> although in some cases agriculation counts (as the tgv's history showed) 22:15:47 <glx> 7 people in the cab 22:16:24 <drac_boy> glx..I'm still curious why childs could had been on that non-public train but mm going wait for the magazine to follow up on it yet :-s 22:17:09 <glx> usually familly 22:17:11 <drac_boy> oh uggg....forgot been talking for a while..sorry need to afk to get supper ready before seven -_- 22:17:15 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@72.1.195.4] has left #openttd [] 22:17:42 <sim-al2> The children shouldn't have been there, but I suppose the other employees didn't want to confront their parents about that 22:19:37 <glx> anyway 7 people in the cab for a test run is too much 22:20:13 <sim-al2> The World Speed record run had a number in the cab, it's a pretty big space 22:24:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: btw. there is a longer version of the report here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2KKoeF_M5A 22:24:25 <FLHerne> WCRC are banned from operating steam locos in the UK again, for disabling overspeed protection while running... 22:24:53 <sim-al2> Ok, I just watched the CCTV footage from the Spain derailment, the generator car goes first but even in the fuuzy footage you can see the locomotive is nearly off the inner rail too 22:25:13 <FLHerne> They were banned for weeks earlier in the year for exactly the same reason, should've taken the hint 22:25:35 <sim-al2> And of course the whole train follows the generator car instead of being pulled off like the locomotive 22:26:01 <sim-al2> Wow those guys did that AGAIN? I thought they were lucky to be allowed back 22:26:18 <Eddi|zuHause> (also an english version here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0CUEEDCJ_s) 22:27:35 <FLHerne> sim-al2: Yup. The full report for the first time around hasn't even been issued yet :-/ 22:27:45 <FLHerne> But then, DCR got away with Stafford 22:28:03 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I read the actual report 22:28:29 <sim-al2> I remember the report for the Candian oil shipment derailment took a while (months), but that required a detailed assessment 22:29:43 <Rubidium> sim-al2: this report took 11 months 22:30:15 <sim-al2> Shouldn't that impact on the wheels be detected by an inspection train? 22:30:52 <glx> yeah inspections, tell that to killed people at bretigny 22:31:46 <sim-al2> You're speaking to the choir here 22:31:54 <glx> inspections are useless if nothing is done after them 22:33:18 <Rubidium> sim-al2: inspection trains don't detect impact on the wheels, what can be detected are the gaps in the gauge but due to the wheels moving the flange the measurements are wrong 22:33:28 <sim-al2> That's very true, sometimes I'm surprised how few accidents occur 22:33:50 <Rubidium> having said that, with linescan video you could notice the effects of driving against the flange 22:34:57 <Rubidium> furthermore, back then the infrastructure owner didn't do switch measurements by train yet and no other measurements (besides manual ones) have measurements for the flange gap 22:35:43 <sim-al2> That's an interesting form of fatigue failure, I almost would expect the switch rail to fail due to fatigue stress caused by the flange contacts 22:36:52 <glx> bretigny was clearly a lack of maintainance 22:36:57 <Rubidium> the switch rail can easily deform, the joint that broke can't. Not to mention that the joint was designed to break at a particular force 22:37:43 <glx> missing screws, unsecured bolts 22:39:07 <Rubidium> also a fun factoid... once looking at rail "in real life" was replaced by looking at pictures of rail in the office the inspection frequency was slowly lowered due to the fact that more was spotted earlier and trends could be seen by looking at previous images 22:41:21 <Eddi|zuHause> what was bretigny again? 22:41:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that thing where the train went over the platform? 22:41:37 <sim-al2> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eisenbahnunfall_von_Br%C3%A9tigny-sur-Orge 22:42:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6BC99.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:44:36 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:45:03 <Eddi|zuHause> so, yes. 22:51:47 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 22:51:50 <glx> recent weird incident was the train unable to brake after a collision with a cow 22:52:08 <glx> makes no sense to me 22:52:28 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-177.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:08:09 *** gelignite [~gelignite@f048234163.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 23:19:09 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 23:30:47 *** jez__ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 23:31:18 *** jez__ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [] 23:34:32 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:06 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:40:59 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@95.76.27.245] has quit [] 23:52:51 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd