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00:43:20 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:36 *** Goddesen [~quassel@51.174.164.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:19 *** Goddesen [~quassel@51.174.164.106] has joined #openttd 01:07:21 *** myztic__ [~myztic@port-92-194-71-26.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.2] 01:54:29 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 01:59:01 <supermop> new american road bridges looking good 01:59:39 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:48 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 02:02:42 <Supercheese> yeah TBRS is great but you get the mix of the modern road surfaces on bridges when all roads are dirt/cobblestone 02:06:01 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 02:06:29 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:57 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 02:26:45 <supermop> i actually don't really like tbrs 02:26:57 <supermop> but there arent any other bridge sets 02:38:36 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:42:03 <Supercheese> I like the tied arches 02:42:26 <Supercheese> very good looking bridges 03:04:10 <Flygon> What I want 03:04:19 <Flygon> Are bridges for rivers that don't need the damn incline 03:04:24 <Flygon> They're everywhere in Australia 03:04:26 <Flygon> For railways, for roads 03:04:30 <Flygon> Why not OpenTTD? D: 03:04:37 <Flygon> Just block ships from going through 03:09:34 <Supercheese> sounds like an application for an object 03:09:51 <Supercheese> like those new creeks/small rivers from the Australia thread 03:10:02 <Supercheese> they have the fake bridges already, even 03:14:23 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 03:32:12 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:38:42 <Flygon> Supercheese: Yeah, but I meant something RVs can actually drive on 03:38:45 <Flygon> No speed limit, either 03:38:49 <Flygon> All the ones, at least, locally 03:38:52 <Flygon> Are at least 100km/h 03:39:01 <Flygon> Or - The same speed limit as the road 03:39:12 <Flygon> And the ones on NSW's Freeways are 110km/h... 03:46:06 <Supercheese> Ok, bulldoze river, build road tile, build adjacent objects faking a bridge 03:46:12 <Supercheese> that's basically what you want, no? 03:46:34 <Supercheese> just gotta make the objects look fancy enough 03:57:35 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d08367c.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 04:04:34 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d08f84c.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:06:40 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:10:48 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 04:17:07 *** smoke_fumus|2 [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 04:17:08 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:26:42 *** smoke_fumus|2 [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:28:54 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42:58 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 05:29:09 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 05:55:18 *** myztic [~myztic@0002010f.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 05:55:38 <myztic> what's a good way to manage a lot of airports on a big map? 05:55:58 <myztic> ( if a link explains I'd be glad too, can't find anything really useful it seems ) 05:56:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD529C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 05:56:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p57BD529C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 05:56:20 <myztic> ( airports and therefore planes, routes, et cetera) 05:59:49 <Flygon> Supercheese: True, true...but even then 05:59:59 <Flygon> How do you handle reconstructing the river if the road is modified? 06:00:09 <Supercheese> yeah, that's an issue 06:00:28 <Supercheese> whenever you bulldoze a river tile you can't ever get it back without scenario editor 06:00:32 <Flygon> Yeah 06:08:32 <myztic> I think I will just set 4,5 or 6 airports in the central of the map, coordinate all airplanes from there 06:08:39 <myztic> and later found a city near that sport 06:08:53 <myztic> s/sport/spot 06:09:33 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:10:00 *** sla_ro|tablet [~sla.ro@213.233.85.170] has joined #openttd 06:40:27 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 07:07:16 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Quit: :q!] 07:11:57 *** sla_ro|tablet [~sla.ro@213.233.85.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:27:25 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 07:36:34 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 08:32:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6D8E9.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 08:32:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6D8E9.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:15:14 <peter1138> urgh 09:15:36 <V453000> +1 09:27:48 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 09:28:36 <V453000> I see northern humies 09:37:12 <andythenorth> lo 09:39:14 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@68-116-139-65.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:44:36 *** glevans2 [~glevans2@68-116-139-65.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #openttd 10:21:20 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 10:23:29 *** sla_ro|tablet [~sla.ro@213.233.85.170] has joined #openttd 10:25:16 <argoneus> good morning train friends 10:31:59 *** sla_ro|tablet [~sla.ro@213.233.85.170] has quit [] 10:36:02 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 11:07:26 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 11:07:30 <Wolf01> o/ 11:09:32 <__ln__> \____, 11:26:16 <dihedral> __ln__: i always wonder how strange your mind actually is... but sadly there is hardly a measurement for that 11:30:55 <__ln__> my mind is the definition of normal, and anything deviating from it is actually strange 11:33:16 <Eddi|zuHause> that isn't really how "normal" works... 11:35:17 <__ln__> it's like the piece of iron in paris that defined the mass of a kilogram 11:36:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a "standard", doesn't automatically make it "normal" 11:36:28 <Wolf01> http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OnlySaneMan 11:37:44 <__ln__> we could also assume that other people's minds are a plane, and my mind is the normal for that plane. 11:47:10 <Wolf01> my bad... are you all stuck on tvtropes again? 11:49:42 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 12:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i closed that page ages ago. it's just a pile of non-explanatory (and probably cyclic) references 12:28:00 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:30:32 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:59 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:34:23 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 12:54:53 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-109-6.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:00:30 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-109-6.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 13:13:28 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 13:22:13 *** Clockworker_ [~Clockwork@200-102-67-245.paemt706.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 13:22:57 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:29:39 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@200-102-67-245.paemt706.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:29:42 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:47:45 *** Hydros [Hydros@188-230-140-226.dynamic.t-2.net] has joined #openttd 13:49:58 <Hydros> hi everyone, posted another update on the logo situation, I welcome any input. best to send pms via forums 13:50:10 <Hydros> I'll be afk but will check back in the late evening 13:51:16 <Hydros> ( http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=74369&p=1163016#p1163016 ) 13:53:38 <planetmaker> Hydros, a discussion in PMs is not helpful IMHO 13:54:15 <Hydros> I meant if anyone is too shy about posting, that's ok too 13:55:30 * argoneus blushes 13:55:42 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 13:55:45 <argoneus> what's wrong with the current logo? 13:57:49 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 14:02:30 *** Hydros [Hydros@188-230-140-226.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:02:42 <V453000> a lot of things, many of them are mentioned in the thread 14:02:48 <V453000> innovation would be really good 14:05:02 <planetmaker> I wonder(ed) whether the logo could be adjusted such that the 'pen' from OpenTTD could be the cargo in the train. And the first T (tilted 90°) kind of the bottom on which the 'pen' lies... 14:05:47 <planetmaker> the 'pen' of course in smaller font 14:06:40 <V453000> write it there :P 14:07:19 <V453000> though I have to say I agrew with writing all letters equally 14:08:40 <V453000> how many times per day do you see people write instead of OpenTTD stuff like ottd, TTD, TT, and whatnot. Writing all letters the same emphasises that it is one "product", and especially since "TTD does not stand for Transport Tycoon Deluxe", this makes sense 14:09:55 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-108-6-12-46.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 14:10:37 <peter1138> my dev folders are all called "ottd", not "openttd" :p 14:14:28 *** Hydros [Hydros@188-230-140-226.dynamic.t-2.net] has joined #openttd 14:14:36 <V453000> exactly 14:14:58 <V453000> yo Hydros :) 14:21:19 <planetmaker> peter1138, mine are also always called ottd. However... it's OpenTTD :) 14:21:38 <planetmaker> I think Hydros missed my comment: 14:21:38 <planetmaker> <planetmaker> I wonder(ed) whether the logo could be adjusted such that the 'pen' from OpenTTD could be the cargo in the train. And the first T (tilted 90°) kind of the bottom on which the 'pen' lies... 14:21:38 <planetmaker> <planetmaker> the 'pen' of course in smaller font 14:21:49 <V453000> yez 14:23:10 <planetmaker> in that trail of thought it could resemble a fright train... O = boxed car. penT = flatbed wagon TD = engine 14:23:28 <planetmaker> fright? freight 14:23:45 <planetmaker> frightening how much difference one letter makes ;) 14:24:37 <peter1138> freightening 14:25:44 <peter1138> i quite like the unlabelled negative orange (2 above f1) 14:26:07 <peter1138> but i also like the current logo :p 14:29:53 <V453000> c2 o2 f1 and the 2 above f1 yeah 14:29:56 <V453000> :) 14:30:06 <argoneus> are we discussing guitars 14:30:20 <V453000> you are just used to the current but if you try to look at it unbiasedly (hard, I know), it is rather bad 14:31:04 <argoneus> "TTD doesn't stand for transport tycoon deluxe" 14:31:04 <argoneus> wuut 14:31:59 <V453000> welcome to copyright world 14:32:35 <argoneus> I thought you needed official permission anyway 14:32:49 <argoneus> since you can get the same game chris sawyer made but free 14:33:48 <V453000> well if you reverse engineer something instead of copying the code, you should not need permission 14:34:53 <argoneus> uhhh... 14:36:49 <peter1138> eh, let's not go there 14:39:45 <V453000> :) . 14:46:08 <Eddi|zuHause> <argoneus> "TTD doesn't stand for transport tycoon deluxe" <-- TBH, that sentence probably wouldn't hold in a court... 14:47:48 <Eddi|zuHause> but trademark law is even more weird than copyright law 14:49:27 <peter1138> it stops gaming sites expanding the name 14:49:50 <Hydros> planetmaker, I did miss that comment! 14:49:54 <Hydros> thanks for pointing that 14:49:55 <Hydros> hi 14:49:58 <Hydros> yo V453000 14:50:02 <Hydros> darn 14:50:10 <Hydros> more iterations coming then, evening... 14:51:59 <Eddi|zuHause> <argoneus> are we discussing guitars <-- if your guitar has an o-string, you've probably been ripped off :p 14:54:59 <Hydros> yes to reverse engineering 14:55:06 <Hydros> all over EU we are still reasonable 14:55:11 <Hydros> we don't allow patenting software 14:55:20 <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: lol 14:55:21 <argoneus> oh yeah 14:55:30 <argoneus> companies put in their EULAs that you aren't allowed to RE their software 14:55:35 <Hydros> which is some of the stupidest ideas post-industrial word has come up with 14:55:37 <argoneus> these days 14:55:49 <Hydros> you can RE it without using it, then you never accepted the EULA? :) 14:56:17 <Hydros> from what I read EULAs aren't really that enforcable or as heavy as they seem 14:56:44 <Hydros> a lot of that stuff didn't hold up in court when push came to shove 14:57:32 <Hydros> I have to get going but i'll be back later, perhaps sooner than planned. 15:07:25 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:18:03 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 15:28:37 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 15:28:40 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 15:39:43 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-177.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 15:40:56 <Eddi|zuHause> <argoneus> companies put in their EULAs that you aren't allowed to RE their software <-- german law rather specifically says such clauses are void 15:41:11 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 15:41:48 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:46 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 15:46:17 <argoneus> Eddi|zuHause: meanwhile germany bans half of youtube 15:46:24 <argoneus> I don't understand law 15:46:54 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably meant that people don't understand it :p 15:46:59 <Alberth> that's normal, law has no logic 15:49:42 <V453000> germany censors youtube?! 15:51:09 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 15:51:11 <argoneus> V453000: GEMA 15:51:31 <argoneus> you can't watch any high profile music videos on youtube in germany 15:51:41 <argoneus> if it has vevo in it's name it's already blocked 15:51:45 <argoneus> its* 15:51:48 <V453000> nice 15:52:07 <argoneus> oh 15:52:31 <argoneus> I thought GEMA was some short name 15:52:37 <argoneus> Gesellschaft fÃŒr musikalische AuffÃŒhrungs- und mechanische VervielfÀltigungsrechte 15:52:40 <argoneus> fantastic 15:53:35 <Alberth> gema looks pretty short to me :p 15:55:20 <Mazur> Gemma Atherton? Indeed. 15:55:27 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [] 15:55:27 <Mazur> Very pretty. 15:56:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i've even seen videos being blocked for having music in them, that don't even have music in them 15:57:04 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 15:57:24 <Eddi|zuHause> seems like they block on a per-channel basis for music channels 15:57:29 <V453000> viva censorship 16:02:05 <V453000> no wonder people pirate music instead 16:04:30 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's a PR battle mostly, neither side really wants to give in. 16:06:25 <Eddi|zuHause> GEMA insists that it never actually requested any videos to be blocked, and has fought multiple court cases that the message youtube gives does not read that way... 16:07:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and youtube doesn't want to pay as much as GEMA wants 16:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> youtube had a license on the ground that it was an experimental startup, which ran out in 2009. and GEMA was like "you're established, now we want Real Money(tm)" 16:09:03 <Eddi|zuHause> at the time the talks ultimately failed, they were reportedly like a factor of 10 apart 16:09:13 <V453000> xd 16:12:08 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing really has moved since then, even though youtube signed contracts with all GEMA-like institutions in all the other european countries 16:27:19 *** iostat [~iostat@p2003006A6C5EDD00302273417D0A951A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:38:27 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:46:12 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has joined #openttd 16:50:24 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:52:34 <Alberth> o/ 16:54:04 <argoneus> \o 16:55:34 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:03:43 *** andythenorth [~Andy@194.168.185.226] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:05:31 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f74439d.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 17:05:41 <Alberth> quak 17:06:47 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-177.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:07:11 <frosch123> hoi 17:10:21 <argoneus> it's frodo 17:17:21 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18BCF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:20:36 <Eddi|zuHause> frodo is not quite green enough 17:25:11 <Mazur> Has he gone blue, like a smurf? 17:30:07 <Eddi|zuHause> no, but he turned red after pushing the button. 17:34:00 *** Hydros [Hydros@188-230-140-226.dynamic.t-2.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:37:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v Alberth] by ChanServ 17:38:13 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:38:42 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 17:42:31 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:46:12 <andythenorth> o/ 17:47:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6D8E9.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:51:57 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:52:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 18:00:01 <andythenorth> so where does this edible oil cargo go? 18:00:11 * andythenorth has been adding cargos with sources, but no destination except a port 18:02:39 <frosch123> usually it goes into a pan 18:04:23 <argoneus> peter pan 18:04:26 <andythenorth> hmm 18:04:54 <andythenorth> accepts: edible oil, bacon 18:04:59 <andythenorth> produces: breakfast 18:06:07 <frosch123> add potatoes 18:06:15 <frosch123> potatos + oil = food 18:06:51 <frosch123> actually, yuo can replace potatoes in that equation with about anything 18:07:51 <frosch123> if i take the menu from the asian fastfood thingie nearby, every second word is "fried" 18:08:06 <argoneus> nice racism 18:08:06 <frosch123> combined with rice, pasta, duck, chicken, ... 18:08:39 <frosch123> argoneus: they also sell pizza, kebab and burgers 18:08:51 <frosch123> oh, and donuts 18:08:58 <frosch123> kind of universal fastfood 18:09:10 <argoneus> szechuan chicken best food ok 18:09:27 <frosch123> they dropped the "only meat" category though 18:10:28 <frosch123> stuff like a small-pizza sized schnitzel 18:10:30 <frosch123> with nothing else 18:10:46 <frosch123> oh, wait, you could add meat sauce to it 18:10:54 <argoneus> holy fuck that sounds tasty 18:10:57 <argoneus> I'd eat that with bread 18:11:04 <argoneus> why did they take it out 18:14:52 <frosch123> a schnitzel by itself is not exactly tasty 18:15:29 <argoneus> dude 18:15:30 <argoneus> you have no idea 18:19:33 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 18:19:34 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 18:22:37 *** Haube [~Michi@ip4d16b7f7.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #openttd 18:27:25 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-177.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 18:48:23 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> so where does this edible oil cargo go? <-- fast food chain 18:50:23 <andythenorth> expand? 18:50:26 <andythenorth> o_O 18:51:07 <Eddi|zuHause> just a black hole for food and oil 18:51:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that appears in the outskirts of town 18:51:35 <frosch123> outskirts? 18:51:41 <argoneus> upskirts 18:52:23 <frosch123> city centers consist of 30% fast food, 50% clothes shops 18:52:27 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: like in shopping centers that get built just outside the town 18:52:39 <andythenorth> been considering an âurbanâ economy for a long time 18:52:49 <andythenorth> but does it work with TTD town pattern? 18:53:04 <frosch123> andythenorth: it may compliment the town builders 18:53:16 <andythenorth> if there are e.g. 16 different industries in a town 18:53:18 <frosch123> complement? 18:53:23 <andythenorth> complement 18:53:26 <andythenorth> I think 18:53:31 <andythenorth> I never know those two tbh 18:53:32 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: those are two very different things :p 18:53:35 <andythenorth> I have to look it up 18:54:13 <andythenorth> anyway 16 industries in one town, all need deliveries, possibly collections? 18:54:18 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, otherwise i would not have bothered correcting 18:54:19 <andythenorth> is that actually fun gameplay? 18:54:33 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: how would i know? 18:54:50 <andythenorth> guess? 18:54:50 <frosch123> andythenorth: not with station spread 64 :p 18:55:10 <andythenorth> also you sometimes get things with compliments, and things that are complementary 18:55:19 <frosch123> i guess town industries can only be black holes in that cases 18:55:21 <andythenorth> and when both are free extra, itâs very confusing 18:55:27 <frosch123> inner-town cargos do not really work 18:55:31 <andythenorth> yeah... 18:55:41 <andythenorth> unless all trucks or helipads 18:56:27 <frosch123> still: clothes, fast food, plastic junk 18:56:32 <frosch123> that's about it 18:57:01 <andythenorth> coffee 18:57:09 <frosch123> true 18:57:11 <andythenorth> baked goods 18:57:15 <andythenorth> electronics 18:57:20 <frosch123> no electronics 18:57:23 <andythenorth> vehicles go to edge of town 18:57:30 <andythenorth> alcohol 18:57:32 <andythenorth> goods 18:57:36 <frosch123> no goods 18:57:42 <andythenorth> oic 18:57:58 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db5b0fa.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 18:58:09 <frosch123> you cannot buy useful stuf in city centers 18:59:43 <andythenorth> ha 18:59:45 <andythenorth> you can in UK :) 19:00:02 <andythenorth> is it different in Germany? 19:00:09 * andythenorth remembers only vaguely 19:00:19 <andythenorth> Freiburg had shops 19:02:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that heavily depends on the city, i suppose. or what you define "useful" 19:02:48 <andythenorth> ha ha 19:06:31 *** zeknurn` [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:59 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 19:08:31 * andythenorth considers a metal-bashing economy 19:08:43 <andythenorth> expand steel mill to multiple industries 19:09:09 <andythenorth> dunno how steel is really made though 19:09:11 <andythenorth> burn stuff? 19:10:22 <peter1138> it's born in the ground 19:10:45 <andythenorth> just dig it up? 19:10:48 <andythenorth> sounds easy 19:11:05 <Eddi|zuHause> you get rocks out of the ground, throw them in a big fire, then you mold it into some shape, and then you cut and fold it into your product 19:11:27 <andythenorth> and open bottles with it? 19:11:34 <andythenorth> and doors? 19:11:35 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly 19:11:53 <Eddi|zuHause> or get more rocks out of the ground 19:12:15 <andythenorth> given 3 input cargos, I canât figure out how to combine: iron ore, coke, scrap metal, limestone and an alloy agent 19:12:19 <andythenorth> cos thatâs 5 19:12:23 * andythenorth can count 19:12:26 <andythenorth> at least to 5 19:12:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i, however, cannot water-land a plane. 19:12:51 <andythenorth> many have tried 19:12:56 <andythenorth> many have failed 19:15:53 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you have never been to a steel mill, have you? 19:16:08 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: not really... 19:16:40 * andythenorth neither 19:16:45 <andythenorth> been to a cement plant 19:16:49 <frosch123> andythenorth: iore + coal -> raw iron, raw iron + oxygen -> steel, steel + stuff -> special steel 19:17:06 <andythenorth> so alloy furnace? 19:17:38 * andythenorth googles 19:17:40 *** iostat [~iostat@p2003006A6C5EDD00302273417D0A951A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:44 <andythenorth> ah minecraft mod has it 19:17:46 <andythenorth> must be realistic 19:17:51 * andythenorth considers a minecraft economy 19:17:52 *** iostat [~iostat@p2003006A6C5EDD00302273417D0A951A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:17:53 <andythenorth> http://tekkitclassic.wikia.com/wiki/Alloy_Furnace 19:17:56 <frosch123> the raw product is delivered liquird, and then turned into plates or pipes 19:18:38 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, "liquid metal". put it into your beloved torpedo cars ;) 19:20:06 <andythenorth> he he 19:20:18 <andythenorth> me and DanMack sometimes discuss novelty ârealisticâ economies 19:20:29 <andythenorth> no real gameplay, just playing model trains 19:20:35 <andythenorth> steel chain, also logging chain 19:21:11 <andythenorth> I think the map scale works against them though 19:22:28 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, that alloy furnace can melt objects into their original ingots... 19:22:35 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-175-158.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #openttd 19:22:57 <Eddi|zuHause> might be useful for those random gold items that zombies drop 19:23:25 <frosch123> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Evolution_convertisseurs.svg/langde-976px-Evolution_convertisseurs.svg.png <- you can offer 5 ways to produce steel 19:23:58 <andythenorth> on a small map, I think it would be interesting to play at least once 19:24:06 <andythenorth> probably works well with SV 19:24:20 <andythenorth> industries would look a bit repetitive 19:24:49 <frosch123> well, just apply more realism 19:24:59 <frosch123> there are like 3 steel mills in europe today, right? 19:26:31 <andythenorth> probably :P 19:29:22 <andythenorth> ok, so to justify adding manganese as an export cargo in an African economyâŠ. 19:29:36 <andythenorth> Iâm going to add a whole new, unrelated, steel making economy 19:29:37 <andythenorth> ? 19:29:43 * andythenorth may be smoking crack 19:30:10 <argoneus> hey Alberth friend 19:30:22 <argoneus> these software engineering buzzwords, they actually don't have much to do with OOP 19:30:30 <argoneus> it seems to be mostly good and tested processes for making software in a company 19:30:36 <frosch123> andythenorth: following the steel industry allows some interesting development 19:30:38 <argoneus> I guess it's not that bad 19:31:08 <frosch123> considering the classic german steel mills: one turned into a tourism company, another one turned into a cellphone network 19:31:09 <andythenorth> argoneus: most of making good OOP is managing outside the programming 19:31:35 <andythenorth> the rest of OO is quite uninteresting, assuming you have good hiring practices 19:35:26 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d08367c.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:36:59 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:43:36 <Conductor_Cat> :3 19:44:08 <andythenorth> is cat 19:49:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i asked the kerbal crowd whether i should rather use a helicopter than a seaplane and they laughed at me... 19:50:21 <andythenorth> kerbal economy 19:50:25 <andythenorth> inputs: parts 19:50:28 <Conductor_Cat> Squad hasn't mastered moving parts yet. 19:50:31 <andythenorth> outputs: broken spacecraft 19:50:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there's a mod for it 19:51:05 <andythenorth> hmm 19:51:10 * andythenorth has a minerals headache 19:51:42 <andythenorth> maybe I should play a game of openttd 19:51:48 <andythenorth> instead of a game of wikipedia 19:52:10 <Conductor_Cat> Openpedia 19:52:17 <Conductor_Cat> WikiTTD 19:53:11 <andythenorth> Alberth: trying BB with 20 goals :P 19:53:18 <andythenorth> I assume I hacked that and have forgotten 19:53:45 <andythenorth> hmm 19:53:48 * andythenorth tries a very large map 19:53:52 <andythenorth> 512x512 19:55:31 <andythenorth> nah looks boring 20:02:26 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-177.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:04:49 <Alberth> :) 20:05:40 *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ 20:09:26 <andythenorth> ugh 20:09:31 <andythenorth> tropic map generator :( 20:10:20 <andythenorth> how would I patch it to use the temperate generator? 20:10:39 <andythenorth> tropic: âmostly flat" 20:10:46 <andythenorth> itâs barely a terrain generator :P 20:11:31 <andythenorth> âstop complaining andythenorth and start fixing" 20:11:32 <andythenorth> yeah 20:18:07 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:18:30 *** iostat [~iostat@p2003006A6C5EDD00302273417D0A951A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: iostat] 20:30:11 <andythenorth> suggestions for moar industries? http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#in_a_hot_country 20:30:17 <andythenorth> canât add more cargos really 20:30:31 <andythenorth> biorefinery? http://www.sunbirdbioenergy.com/Sunbird_Bioenergy_Sustainable_Biofuel_Production.html 20:36:07 <andythenorth> adds nothing 20:43:31 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: c('~' )o] 20:46:22 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:46:25 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 20:47:05 <andythenorth> way too much bloody desert in this generator 20:48:12 <andythenorth> yeah, TGP is just crap for Tropic 20:48:16 <andythenorth> the original is better 20:48:43 <andythenorth> even though it makes stupid rectangular landscapes 20:49:09 <andythenorth> at least it adds some rainforest and mountains 20:49:53 <andythenorth> original accidentally generates oases too 20:50:47 <andythenorth> meh 20:58:25 <andythenorth> so in landscape.cpp 20:58:56 <andythenorth> I want to patch TGP to use the tile height generator from temperate 20:59:04 <andythenorth> but still needs to generate desert / rainforest 21:00:13 * andythenorth fools with magic numbers 21:00:17 <andythenorth> NFI what they do 21:04:18 <Alberth> copy them from temperate? 21:06:23 <frosch123> hmm, i cannot get pydot to work :/ 21:06:37 <frosch123> it fails to load a dot file, which works fine in dot 21:06:50 <frosch123> giving me a crypting error from pyparsing :/ 21:06:57 <andythenorth> :( 21:07:31 <andythenorth> frosch123: paste? 21:07:36 <andythenorth> although I have no idea :) 21:08:08 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p1qdevgdt <- well, pretty useless 21:08:17 <argoneus> "what do I name my project" 21:08:21 <argoneus> "let's go with p1qdevgdt" 21:09:20 <frosch123> it seems to try to skip whitespace 21:09:38 <frosch123> feels like a broken py2->3 conversion to me :p 21:09:49 <frosch123> like the input containing character numbers 21:09:58 <frosch123> and the parser expecting a string 21:10:07 <andythenorth> http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com/share/view/41209503 ? 21:10:34 <frosch123> well, i called a highlevel funtion, to which i pass the filename 21:11:20 <andythenorth> /* Desert terrain needs special height distribution. 21:11:20 <andythenorth> * Half of tiles should be at lowest (0..25%) heights */ 21:11:23 <andythenorth> ^ this is silly 21:12:44 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pkglvrtjk <- yeah, pydot and pyparsing seem to disagree 21:13:00 <frosch123> pydot fails for bytes, pyparsing for string 21:13:36 <andythenorth> :( 21:13:45 <andythenorth> how boring of them :) 21:13:54 <frosch123> i wondered whether it is maintained :p 21:14:34 * andythenorth looks 21:15:13 <andythenorth> pypi suggest it is 21:15:31 <andythenorth> although...ugh 21:15:34 <andythenorth> sourceroge 21:15:40 <andythenorth> sourceforge * 21:15:44 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 21:15:45 <andythenorth> no, I donât want malware, thanks 21:15:49 <andythenorth> http://pyparsing.wikispaces.com 21:16:17 * andythenorth looks at pydot 21:16:38 <andythenorth> nah pydot is dead 21:16:42 <andythenorth> https://github.com/erocarrera/pydot 21:16:56 <frosch123> http://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs/main/p/pydot/pydot_1.0.28-2_changelog <- lots of changes last week :p 21:17:14 <andythenorth> frosch123: ? https://github.com/erocarrera/pydot/pull/112/files 21:17:22 <andythenorth> recent 21:17:29 <andythenorth> but pull request not accepted yet 21:17:47 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 21:18:06 <frosch123> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=745021 <- apparently fixed last week :p 21:18:31 <andythenorth> :P 21:19:13 <andythenorth> in other news, in tgp.cpp, I copied the LT_TEMPERATE landscape settings for the the LT_TROPIC case 21:19:15 <argoneus> what about the bug where Ian isn't here anymore :( 21:19:18 <andythenorth> much better results imho 21:19:26 <andythenorth> landscape is obviously subjective 21:19:37 <andythenorth> but endless flat desert makes boring gameplay 21:19:49 <andythenorth> and can be achieved trivially with a heightmap or SE 21:20:44 <andythenorth> the original landscape generator does *not* make endless flat deserts 21:21:06 <frosch123> what about 1.4? :p 21:21:16 <andythenorth> it wasâŠfixed? :P 21:21:26 <andythenorth> there is a case that anyone who is seriously attached to current TGP tropic configuration could just go whistle, no? 21:22:34 <frosch123> i pondered to remove all the mapgenerator presets, and instead add some sliders and profiles 21:22:46 <frosch123> similar to chills, but not as cryptic 21:23:18 <frosch123> some of the current mapgen settings are mislabeled imho 21:23:25 <frosch123> while others have a weird scaling 21:23:54 <frosch123> and i agree that landscape should not affect the terrain generator 21:24:06 <frosch123> but the terrain generator should offer more options 21:24:09 <frosch123> independent of landscape 21:24:19 <frosch123> including a preview :p 21:24:40 <andythenorth> well 21:24:50 <andythenorth> I do not disagree :D 21:25:02 <andythenorth> in the short term, I like my patch :P 21:25:06 <andythenorth> it was easy 21:25:41 <andythenorth> do the transforms map meaningfully to landscape? 21:25:51 <andythenorth> e.g. âplateaus: few | manyâ 21:26:02 <andythenorth> âlow plains: few | many" 21:26:06 * andythenorth suspects only partly 21:27:49 <Wolf01> "maybe he is transparency blind, like color blindness"... internet again :( 21:28:17 <argoneus> check your transparency privilege, shitlord 21:28:23 <andythenorth> ha ha, SA Town Names has âstompâ 21:31:46 <andythenorth> also ha ha the game is good 21:31:53 <andythenorth> the bad bits really stick out these days 21:32:14 <andythenorth> so much got fixed / improved 22:05:19 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f74439d.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:08:58 <andythenorth> also 22:08:59 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 22:20:05 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:29:42 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db5b0fa.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:30:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6D8E9.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:27 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db5b0fa.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 22:32:29 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db5b0fa.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [] 22:36:10 *** pugi [~pugi@dyndsl-095-033-175-158.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [] 22:40:53 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18BCF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:23 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 22:53:17 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 22:53:20 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 23:00:12 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:00:43 *** myztic_ [~myztic@0002010f.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 23:06:17 *** myztic [~myztic@0002010f.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:06:22 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 23:06:47 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 23:11:09 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:36:40 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:06 *** day_ [~day@101.165.99.116] has joined #openttd 23:46:34 *** day [~day@101.165.99.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:47:47 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:51:21 *** Haube [~Michi@ip4d16b7f7.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:56:29 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d08367c.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd