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00:07:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i can haz galleon? 00:07:38 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:18:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose a galleon isn't the right ship for cleansing another pirate area, so i'm gonna trade and grow towns for a bit and maybe i can get a frigate next 00:27:12 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19B32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:13 *** DDR_ [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:15 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 00:44:27 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause, I'm using the frigate, but I have troubles with 5 enemy ships in level 30 areas... 00:44:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not quite that far yet 00:45:11 <Wolf01> I have 2 more ships to purchase, but I first need to level up a city 00:47:16 <Wolf01> growing a town to level 9 requires at least 25 quests/trades with that city 00:48:17 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that's 5 trips with a galleon :p 00:48:33 <Wolf01> if you have all the stuff every time, yes 00:49:38 *** __builtin [~me@cpe-71-71-39-6.triad.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:50:17 <Wolf01> today I cleaned 3 pirate areas and got a "syndicate" city, the syndicate faction is the best one because it gives you all the perks of the other ones, but it's tricky to get their flag :/ 00:53:29 <Wolf01> http://steamcommunity.com/app/326410/discussions/0/620713633864746577/ 00:58:22 <Wolf01> 'night 00:58:24 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 01:14:58 *** __builtin [~me@cpe-71-71-39-6.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 01:15:24 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest3658 01:15:25 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 01:20:28 *** Guest3658 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:23:33 *** efess 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[~roland@62-46-138-190.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 06:36:25 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 06:50:29 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:58:59 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:59:32 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 07:07:43 <andythenorth> o/ 07:09:26 <V453000> sup yo 07:09:28 <V453000> progrez? 07:11:18 <andythenorth> yair 07:12:54 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7637/vehicle_factory_3.png 07:13:08 <andythenorth> shading is wrong 07:13:12 <andythenorth> trying to get some shapes 07:13:18 <andythenorth> I went for modern look 07:13:53 <V453000> that is infinitely better than yesterday 07:14:23 <V453000> cars look rather bad, and I would add white elements to the CC boxes 07:14:27 <V453000> but other than that, really good 07:14:43 <andythenorth> I am glad you suggested white 07:14:50 <andythenorth> I woke up at 4am and had same thought 07:15:02 <andythenorth> also is super realisms http://teknikensvarld.se/wp-content/uploads/import/images/global/nyheter/2012/10/16/saab-fabriken.jpg 07:15:04 <V453000> well the cars aren't that horrible, but ... yeah :) various car models that hard? :P 07:15:06 <V453000> haha 07:15:15 <V453000> good 07:15:19 <andythenorth> I need cars, trucks, machines 07:15:39 <andythenorth> I think vehicles have to be different colours, not just CC 07:15:43 <andythenorth> which I hate :P 07:15:46 <andythenorth> I like CC 07:16:21 <andythenorth> I am going to do a white office building, but not this one http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7635/vehicle_factory_2.png 07:17:30 <V453000> I would like the top part to be a bit shorter so it doesn't go all the way to the edge https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/vehicle_factory_3.png 07:18:02 <andythenorth> I can do that probably 07:18:40 <V453000> yeah colourful cars would be nice, but mainly they need more contrast I think ... they look blurry compared to the other things 07:20:03 <andythenorth> Iâm not short of vehicles 07:20:09 <andythenorth> I have 2 whole grfs of them :P 07:20:10 <V453000> in fact, various coloured cars would probably give it an unique look, and immediately intuitively obvious that it is a car factory 07:20:13 <V453000> yes I know 07:20:16 <V453000> USE THEM :P 07:21:52 <_johannes> andythenorth: I like it, it really fits the other industries in the game 07:22:06 <_johannes> will you also do 32 bpp versions? 07:22:41 <V453000> XD 07:22:42 <V453000> in yo face 07:23:17 <andythenorth> I have outsourced the 32bpp 07:23:28 <V453000> 32bpp or lyfe 07:23:44 <andythenorth> it is on V453000âs to-do list 07:23:48 <andythenorth> but his list is long 07:24:01 <_johannes> ok :D 07:24:01 <V453000> his list is really fucked up long 07:25:22 <andythenorth> V453000: not sure about the black vertical dividers on the end of the CC sheds 07:25:31 <andythenorth> I wanted something not used anywhere else 07:25:36 <andythenorth> but looks odd 07:26:06 <V453000> try white :) 07:26:20 <V453000> moar consistency to the industry 07:28:02 * andythenorth sorting the roof out 07:28:25 <andythenorth> shortenining the roof extension (per your drawing) is logical, but makes it disappear into the roofline at the back 07:28:30 <V453000> btw teh newborn is live 07:28:34 <andythenorth> :o 07:28:51 <andythenorth> when? 07:28:59 <V453000> 12.2. 18:33 07:34:02 *** roidal_ [~roland@194-152-171-164.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 07:34:12 <_johannes> do we have an expert for the yapf algorithm? 07:40:55 *** roidal [~roland@62-46-138-190.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:01:01 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18FDF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 08:09:44 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:70fb:894c:bf4c:f7b0] has joined #openttd 08:11:18 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:19:07 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 08:32:00 *** Sacro [~ben@000127ee.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:48:41 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 09:15:57 *** Progman [~progman@p57A18FDF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:24:07 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 09:24:10 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 09:29:19 <andythenorth> o/ 09:35:54 <Alberth> moin 09:41:42 <andythenorth> V453000: 2 storeys or 3? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7638/vehicle_factory_4.png 09:41:43 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7639/vehicle_factory_5.png 09:42:09 <andythenorth> clue: I am planning to add more similar buildings, in white (offices) and CC (goods in, with chemical tank and stuff) 09:42:17 <andythenorth> I think the others need to be lower 09:43:43 <Alberth> 3 levels looks 3 times as impressive :) 09:44:46 <Alberth> you could do a few variations in layout with different heights 09:44:54 <andythenorth> I think the 2 level one looks better, in isolation 09:45:02 <andythenorth> but when I add other buildings, I think it will get lost 09:45:16 <Alberth> could be 09:45:25 <Alberth> 3 levels is a bit massive indeed 09:46:04 <Alberth> on the other hand, we have houses that are at least as high :) 09:46:41 <andythenorth> yes 09:50:51 <Alberth> imho it is not a bad thing if industry is really present 09:53:39 *** TrueBrain_ [~truebrain@e176104.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 09:53:43 *** TrueBrain is now known as Guest3712 09:53:43 *** TrueBrain_ is now known as TrueBrain 09:53:51 <Alberth> hi hi TB 09:54:03 *** day [~day@58.174.109.52] has joined #openttd 09:54:43 <Alberth> andy, you have many 2 level buildings at other industries :) 09:57:28 *** Guest3712 [~truebrain@i210033.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:58:01 <andythenorth> yes 10:00:33 *** day [~day@58.174.109.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:39 *** efess [~Efess@c-24-61-64-170.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 10:12:04 *** TrueBrain_ [~truebrain@e176104.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:13:10 *** TrueBrain is now known as Guest3714 10:13:10 *** TrueBrain_ is now known as TrueBrain 10:15:51 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7640/vehicle_factory_6.png 10:15:59 <andythenorth> not sure I like 3 levels 10:16:00 *** Guest3714 [~truebrain@000125f6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:16:08 <andythenorth> realism, but bland 10:16:27 <andythenorth> looks like apartments :P 10:16:30 <andythenorth> V453000: ^^ ? 10:16:51 * andythenorth tries back to 2 10:17:29 *** TrueBrain_ [~truebrain@e176104.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:17:32 *** TrueBrain is now known as Guest3715 10:17:32 *** TrueBrain_ is now known as TrueBrain 10:18:04 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db6b424.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 10:21:43 *** Guest3715 [~truebrain@000125f6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:22:10 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7641/vehicle_factory_7.png 10:22:12 <andythenorth> better imho 10:22:45 <andythenorth> tall one looks like space shuttle assembly building 10:25:52 <Alberth> :) 10:26:20 <Alberth> 7 is indeed better then 6 10:26:36 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:44:34 *** DDR [~David@S0106602ad0773a2e.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 10:48:43 <argoneus> good morning train friends 10:48:48 *** TrueBrain_ [~truebrain@i210033.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 10:48:50 *** TrueBrain is now known as Guest3721 10:48:50 *** TrueBrain_ is now known as TrueBrain 10:54:09 *** Guest3721 [~truebrain@000125f6.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:57:05 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 11:05:14 <FLHerne> argoneus: Morning 11:05:43 *** mescalito [~mescalito@251-183-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: mescalito] 11:06:13 *** mescalito [~mescalito@251-183-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 11:11:50 *** mescalito [~mescalito@251-183-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: mescalito] 11:13:23 *** mescalito [~mescalito@251-183-191-90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #openttd 11:36:33 <_johannes> Alberth: do you know how wrote YAPF, or who knows a lot about it? 11:36:56 * andythenorth wonders what vehicles to use at vehicle factory 11:45:59 <Alberth> _johannes: former should be derivable from the commit log 11:47:13 <Alberth> but it's likely he is long gone, or doesn't know the details any more 11:48:06 <_johannes> looks likt it was rubidium 11:49:38 <_johannes> From what I understand, the pathfinder is an A* graph algorithm, the tiles that contain tracks are the nodes, and if two neighbour tiles are connected via a track, they make an edge 11:49:47 <_johannes> do you think this is true? 11:50:21 *** ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b227:6db7:9381:e6a:34a:81d7] has joined #openttd 11:50:54 <Alberth> rubidium likely just committed it? if there is a issue number, that's the real person who wrote it 11:52:06 <_johannes> issue number in the commit message? 11:52:08 <Alberth> I agree on your ideas about A* 11:52:47 <Alberth> and since the tile and track layout is used everywhere, you can use the same path finder everywhere 11:53:27 <Alberth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Commit_style there is a standard way of writing a commit message 11:53:53 <Alberth> but depending on the age of the commit, things may be different :) 11:56:46 <_johannes> :) 11:56:57 <FLHerne> 'KUDr', it seems? http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=24703 11:57:10 <_johannes> what do you mean by " you can use the same path finder everywhere" 11:57:15 <FLHerne> But I don't remember ever seeing that name, so probably inactive :-/ 11:58:56 <Alberth> all path finders are usable for trains, road vehicles, and ships 11:59:08 <Alberth> aircraft just fly in a straight-ish line 12:03:22 <Alberth> KUDr left at around 0.6 https://wiki.openttd.org/Developers 12:04:17 <_johannes> ok so what I need is to exactly use this algorithm, but instead of getting the next track where the train should continue, I'd like to get all stations that are on the path to the next order 12:05:03 <_johannes> I think there are two ways to do that: (1) is to copy the current track finding algorithm and make a modification which returns all stations on the path 12:05:29 <Eddi|zuHause> diving into the depth of YAPF internals is a scary thought 12:05:42 <_johannes> (2) is to just add a callback function to the algorithm, something like "onEnterTile(Tile...)" 12:06:02 <_johannes> which would, in my case, be used to check if that Tile is part of a station 12:06:13 <_johannes> for me, (2) sounds more clean 12:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: the follow track function can already distinguish station tiles 12:06:55 <Alberth> I'd compute the path, and then check it for stations 12:07:33 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: i think what you need to do is modify the return value from a scalar to a linked list or something 12:08:04 <Alberth> A* walks in all directions, only afterwards you know which path is relevant 12:09:41 <Eddi|zuHause> this might need adding another layer of templates onto it 12:09:55 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: ? 12:10:01 <_johannes> Eddi|zuHause: returning a complete list might be a performance issue 12:10:19 <Alberth> path = ComputePath(); for tile in path: if in station: append station to list 12:10:36 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d013b07.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 12:10:40 <Alberth> hoi 12:11:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: but the pathfinder currently only returns the first choice of the path, and throws everything else away 12:11:21 <_johannes> not sure if yapf keeps the path internal, but I guess it does not, so in order to return it, we need to call malloc each time 12:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: building a linked list is certainly not more expensive than a full pathfinder run 12:12:03 <Alberth> _johannes: it must have the entire path, or you cannot decide the next tile 12:12:11 <Alberth> I'd just call it for every tile 12:12:42 <_johannes> You mean calling YAPF repeatedly? 12:12:43 <frosch123> hola 12:13:16 <Alberth> yep, you have no desire to keep the game running fluently right? 12:13:32 <_johannes> Alberth: no 12:13:44 <Alberth> so the simplest way is to just continue calling it getting a next tile, until you reached the end 12:13:56 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: the way a pathfinder like YAPF works is it recurses into every choice there is to make, and upon a successful reaching of the destination, the return path of this recursion is the path that is taken 12:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: so along this return path, you need to build your linked list 12:14:22 <_johannes> Eddi|zuHause: ... or call a callback function 12:14:34 <Alberth> but if you want it in one go, the path finder must have the entire path at some point, so you'd need to rescue it then 12:15:24 <Alberth> _johannes: cb function fails, as the algorithm explores all directions, so you get call at every explored point in the map, not just at the optimal path 12:15:56 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: again, the pathfinder already does all things you need, it just discards it immediately except for the last return 12:16:35 <Eddi|zuHause> you just need to string up these return values, to get your full path 12:16:48 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/a_star.png <-- yellow is the path, everything dark and light blue is also explored 12:17:30 <Alberth> maybe first understand how A* works? 12:17:32 <_johannes> I think Eddi|zuHause just said that the path could be recovered? 12:18:16 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host245-3-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 12:18:26 <Wolf01> o/ 12:18:28 <frosch123> _johannes: take a look at CYapfReserveTrack::TryReservePath 12:18:41 <frosch123> for (Node *node = m_res_node; node->m_parent != NULL; node = node->m_parent) { <- that loop iterates over the found path 12:19:21 <Alberth> hi hi W01 12:19:28 <argoneus> Alberth 1v1 me in chess 12:19:48 <Wolf01> why not 4v4? 12:19:56 <argoneus> 4v4 is imbalanced 12:20:35 <frosch123> people can get very angry in 2v2 chess games 12:21:19 <frosch123> when one team member loses the queen, and the other team member suddenly has to face two queens 12:21:55 <michi_cc> frosch123, _johannes: Almost :) It iterates starting with the chosen safe waiting point, which in turn is determined in e.g. CYapfFollowRailT::ChooseRailTrack (the if (pNode != NULL) part) 12:22:30 <argoneus> frosch123 want to play chess? 12:22:45 <Quatroking> do cities grow when one of its industries makes a massive turnover? 12:22:54 <frosch123> no, i want to write a factorio->graphviz converter 12:23:22 <frosch123> after watching the 2:30h speedrun, i think about building a different factory than usual 12:23:49 <frosch123> but don't worry, i won't try a speedrun, i won't even consider playing the same map twice 12:24:01 <Wolf01> Eddi|zuHause, I found the construction supplies :D 12:24:17 <argoneus> frosch123: what do you want to graph? 12:24:52 <frosch123> the cargo chain, but with "amount per time" units 12:25:19 <frosch123> i want an easy graph to figure out the ratios for assembling machines 12:25:42 <frosch123> without having to divide input/output amounts by production time 12:25:53 <_johannes> frosch123: from that for loop you pasted, does YAPF simply add each direct A*-search-origin as m_parent? 12:26:28 <argoneus> frosch123: foreman? 12:26:35 <frosch123> _johannes: the resulting path is essentially a linked list (the back-links in the search tree) 12:26:44 <argoneus> there's tons of tools to do that 12:26:54 <argoneus> you tell them "I want to make 10 doodles in a minute" 12:27:01 <argoneus> and it tells you what fiddles and toodles you need to make 10 doodles per minute 12:28:04 <frosch123> i am sure i can write a custom tool myself faster than trying out several other tools which do only similar what i want 12:28:15 <frosch123> it's also more fun 12:28:21 <argoneus> they do exactly "amount per time" though 12:28:34 <argoneus> but yeah I get writing your own 12:28:37 <frosch123> and can they import factorio mods? 12:28:41 <argoneus> yes 12:28:45 <argoneus> you can check/uncheck mods 12:28:53 <argoneus> foreman scans your game files 12:29:02 <Alberth> I am more a Go person nowadays, haven't played chess in a few decades 12:29:51 <Alberth> I played checkers some time ago, and discovered that moving pieces are very scary :p 12:30:24 <argoneus> oh, that Go 12:30:27 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:30 <argoneus> I was wondering what programming has to do with chess 12:30:44 <_johannes> michi_cc: the pNode != NULL part starts at the end of the path and then goes up the A* tree to get the whole path? 12:31:01 <frosch123> Alberth: luckily there are two dozen rulesets for checkers :p 12:31:24 <Alberth> :O I know only one :p 12:31:53 <michi_cc> More or less yes. Nodes are tiles though, but run of tiles, which is why the called functions have their own sub-loops as well. 12:32:01 <michi_cc> s/are/aren't/ :) 12:32:34 <frosch123> Alberth: there are like 3 versions each how to move normal pieces, enhanced pieces, and how normal pieces can remove other pieces 12:32:46 <frosch123> which you can of course recombine into 27 variants 12:32:48 <Alberth> sounds likely :) 12:33:05 *** Clockworker_ [~Clockwork@189-72-25-241.paemt701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 12:33:13 <frosch123> oh, and board sizes ofc 12:33:14 <Alberth> and tactics change a lot when you change such rules 12:33:40 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:33:51 <_johannes> michi_cc: "run of" tiles ? you're German, right? :D 12:34:02 <_johannes> can you please translate that 12:34:04 <frosch123> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draughts#National_and_regional_variants <- only some of them 12:35:18 <michi_cc> _johannes: A node covers several tiles. 12:35:44 <_johannes> oh ok... 12:37:56 <_johannes> so should I add another function into CYapfFollowRailT that walks through the A* path and lists/returns/notifies all stations ? 12:40:37 *** Clockworker__ [~Clockwork@189-72-25-241.paemt701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:40:42 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:70fb:894c:bf4c:f7b0] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:41:37 <frosch123> argoneus: ok, i found a website. i guess i underestimated the size/activity of the factorio forums 12:41:51 <argoneus> frosch123: foreman was a bit buggy the last time I used it thugh 12:41:53 <argoneus> though* 12:42:04 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:70fb:894c:bf4c:f7b0] has joined #openttd 12:42:10 <argoneus> not sure why, but it was loading the wrong numbers for some ores/plates 12:42:17 <argoneus> but apparently those are wrong even in the game files 12:42:22 <argoneus> but somehow the game fixes them 12:42:27 <argoneus> shrug 12:42:43 <argoneus> the rest seemed just fine though 12:42:47 <frosch123> there are like dozen modifiers :p 12:43:04 <frosch123> every cargo has a production time, but also assembling machines have speeds 12:43:12 <frosch123> and funnily there is no machine with speed 1 :p 12:43:21 <frosch123> hmm, maybe the player has speed 1 12:47:02 <argoneus> oh I remember frosch123 12:47:09 <argoneus> it somehow thought the drill:furnace ratio wasn't 1:1 12:47:16 <argoneus> with electric furnaces 12:47:22 <argoneus> it thought it was 1:2 12:47:26 <argoneus> I don't know how that happened 12:47:37 <argoneus> everything else seemed correct 12:47:57 <argoneus> I made a post in the forums about this, let me see if I can find any resolution 12:49:00 <argoneus> ah, found it 12:49:09 <argoneus> frosch123: http://wiki.factorioforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=134&t=5576&start=190#p119700 12:49:52 <argoneus> not gamebreaking, but still, not sure how that happens 12:49:56 <argoneus> since it takes data straight out of the game 12:52:14 <Quatroking> oh wow 12:52:21 <Quatroking> I hit the vehicle limit for the first time ever 12:52:28 <argoneus> grats 12:52:41 <Quatroking> building freeways does that I guess 13:04:04 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7642/vehicle_factory_8.png 13:05:16 <Quatroking> pretty 13:05:36 <argoneus> andythenorth: that's from the original ttd files, isn't it? 13:05:47 <andythenorth> the landscape is 13:05:54 <argoneus> I mean the house 13:07:32 <frosch123> andythenorth: randomise the recolouring on each vehicle tile? 13:07:48 <andythenorth> I think so yes 13:07:55 <andythenorth> I need to try it at least 13:08:15 <andythenorth> Iâm worried about finding colours that donât clash horribly with the CC of the industry 13:08:23 <andythenorth> but white at least seems safe :P 13:18:05 <andythenorth> frosch123: 2CC industries? :P 13:18:39 <frosch123> i like the white buildings :) 13:19:46 * andythenorth is painting trucks white and silver right now 13:21:28 <frosch123> no coloured vehicles? :o 13:22:18 <andythenorth> might try some 13:22:21 <andythenorth> dunno 13:22:27 <andythenorth> yellow bulldozers? o_O 13:23:16 <frosch123> yeah, considering the other industries, there is a high demand for heqs 13:23:16 <Alberth> do they ever have a different colour? :p 13:23:41 <frosch123> yellow, white, red, orange 13:23:45 <frosch123> blue and green are rare 13:23:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6C8F1.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:28:42 <andythenorth> added some red vehicles http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7643/vehicle_factory_9.png 13:28:52 <andythenorth> probably need at least one more tile of different vehicles 13:29:36 <andythenorth> I _could_ make all the buildings white 13:29:45 <andythenorth> and leave the CC only for vehicles and such 13:30:16 <frosch123> i think it's nice this way 13:30:22 <frosch123> all white would be boring 13:30:32 <frosch123> but the white one in front, and the colour in the background is good 13:30:40 <andythenorth> what colour are post vans in germany, holland? 13:31:02 <frosch123> depends on the company :p 13:31:06 <andythenorth> oic :) 13:31:10 <frosch123> dhl is yellow with red stripe 13:31:29 <frosch123> ubs is brown with this insanely weird amercian car layout, which makes no sense 13:31:41 <frosch123> smaller companies have just plain white 13:32:01 <frosch123> it's usually for reselling the vehicles 13:32:18 <frosch123> like police cars used to be white with green/blue lines 13:32:33 <frosch123> but now the green/blue part is a only a sticker 13:32:39 <frosch123> and the car is silver 13:32:47 <frosch123> after one year, the sticker is removed, and the car is sold again 13:32:51 <frosch123> and silver sells well 13:41:56 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7644/vehicle_factory_10.png 13:49:27 <FLHerne> andythenorth: That's much more beautiful than yesterday's :-) 13:56:10 <Alberth> looking great 14:20:10 *** frosch [~frosch@x5f744438.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 14:23:59 <andythenorth> need to do 2 more buildings, including replacing those tanks 14:24:50 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x4d013b07.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:31:53 <FLHerne> Random FIRS nag - can we have more industries that fit onto slopes? 14:32:22 <FLHerne> On rough maps, it looks a bit silly when two dozen industries are crammed onto each flattish area 14:32:52 <FLHerne> Or I could just set it to generate fewer industries, o/c :P 14:41:32 <andythenorth> tried v2 FIRS? 14:41:59 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions/f80b2105cc71 14:44:42 <FLHerne> No, I don't think so, still on 1.4.4 14:44:48 * FLHerne should try that :-) 14:46:09 <Quatroking> there's a v2? 14:46:29 <Quatroking> I guess that one isn't on the in-game newgrf downloader thingy tool? 14:47:38 <frosch> it needs ottd 1.6 14:47:41 <Quatroking> I love how FIRS adds petrol stations to my freeways, by the way 14:48:58 <FLHerne> From the look of it, that still rules out anything down the side of a mountain 14:49:30 <FLHerne> Drift mines? 14:54:02 <andythenorth> want to 14:54:13 <andythenorth> not sure I can reliably find the correct shaped hillsides 14:54:15 <andythenorth> but itâs an idea 14:54:28 <andythenorth> actually it could work with foundations 14:58:57 <andythenorth> copper mine will be redrawn something like this http://lh5.ggpht.com/-yyCBMJjHYTo/VDzBWraaqaI/AAAAAAAA8M8/hIh2rI7wITg/sewell-chile-8%25255B6%25255D.jpg?imgmax=800 14:59:15 * andythenorth wonders if it can be forced on to hillsides 14:59:18 <andythenorth> tends to be tricky 15:17:48 *** Sacro [~ben@ns220925.ip-188-165-246.eu] has joined #openttd 15:47:29 <V453000> andythenorth: the only problem I have is with the windows looking from behind https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/vehicle_factory_10.png 15:47:47 <V453000> cars look WAY great in compare to earlier 15:47:54 <V453000> white buildings are fine 15:48:20 <V453000> could benefit from some tiny details on teh roof/roof edges I think but not a big deal 15:48:40 <V453000> I would solve the "issue" by either moving the bright pixels in windows 1px lower 15:48:50 <V453000> or making the middle blue segment have 3 floors? 15:49:13 <V453000> editing windows sounds better 15:49:29 <V453000> also, I would love if each of the 3 blue building roofs were at least a little different from each other 15:49:44 <V453000> ... same for the white ones roofs 16:11:13 <andythenorth> I probably move the windows down I think 16:11:37 <andythenorth> or increase building height 1-2px 16:20:24 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 16:40:17 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:40:20 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:40:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you could even leave it like that 16:41:33 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 16:41:37 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe blue is not the best colour for the buildings 16:42:35 <andythenorth> none of the colours are great 16:42:50 <andythenorth> I could darken them by one shade 16:42:59 <andythenorth> perhaps not actually, Iâm out of range 16:47:12 <andythenorth> I could two-tone the buildings white/CC in big horizontal stripes 16:47:16 <andythenorth> not convinced it would be good mind 16:51:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think i'd prefer the brick-brown from yesterday 16:56:17 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:56:20 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 17:03:13 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:04:28 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> /usr/include/c++/4.8/bits/basic_string.tcc:799:33: internal compiler error: Speicherzugriffsfehler 17:07:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound right 17:15:49 <frosch> the latter word is german 17:19:38 <Wolf01> ahah Eddi|zuHause, I just found a legendary item :D 17:19:55 <Wolf01> a bit pricey 88k 17:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i definitely got the "legendary" achievement with my 14k item 17:24:19 <Wolf01> I'm roaming in the level 39 area, establishing a little base and sinking one ship at time it was easy 17:24:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm working my way through the level 18 areas 17:24:55 <Wolf01> found a "strange diagram" too, I think is the one for the airship 17:25:42 <Wolf01> and also, I'm playing as syndicate now 17:36:24 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:37:02 <Milek7> ouch, there isn't counter for cargo transported to industry last month? 17:41:00 <Eddi|zuHause> no, only production last month 17:41:31 <Eddi|zuHause> depending on industry set you may also have a stockpile 17:41:47 <frosch> http://nogo.openttd.org/api/trunk/classGSCargoMonitor.html <- all the information is available 17:42:09 <frosch> how else would gamescripts like nocargoal work? 17:43:33 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i was thinking GUI 17:46:30 <Milek7> i must specify company? 17:46:41 <Milek7> i want to get data from all companies 17:47:18 <Eddi|zuHause> simply loop over all companies? 17:59:42 *** Clockworker__ [~Clockwork@189-72-25-241.paemt701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #openttd 18:07:15 *** Clockworker_ [~Clockwork@189-72-25-241.paemt701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:13:59 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:16:27 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 18:25:44 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19A11.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:38:32 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:38:35 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 18:45:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6CACD.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:45:35 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:51:28 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6C8F1.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:56:15 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d0865af.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:00:47 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 19:00:51 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-226-172.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:02:35 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:15:03 *** Wolf03 [~wolf01@host245-3-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 19:15:03 *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest3787 19:15:03 *** Wolf03 is now known as Wolf01 19:20:20 *** Guest3787 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:28:51 <Eddi|zuHause> so... i got this skill to throw water barrels, and ever since then, i haven't seen any fire that i could extinguish... 19:31:57 *** oskari89 [oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 19:32:58 <Wolf01> eheh, sea is on fire here on level 39, I would like more water barrels :P 19:39:24 <andythenorth> chimneys, always chimneys 19:39:30 <andythenorth> no FIRS industry without a chimney 19:44:53 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:46:43 <andythenorth> ho 19:46:53 <andythenorth> there are 20 different tall chimneys in FIRS :o 19:47:02 * andythenorth doesnât like repeating them :P 19:48:23 <frosch> the smoke is the same most of the time, i guess 19:49:34 <andythenorth> mostly 19:55:02 <andythenorth> apart from roof detail, is this done? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/7645/vehicle_factory_11.png 19:55:08 * andythenorth might be losing perspective 19:55:27 <andythenorth> the little building doesnât quite fit, but I am lacking inspiration 19:55:50 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, 1vs.3 doesn't really work :p 19:57:03 <Wolf01> I can survive 1v4.. if there isn't a captain between them 20:00:00 <andythenorth> ach see what forums say :P 20:05:43 *** Sirenia [~sirenia@454028b1.test.dnsbl.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:56 *** Sirenia [~sirenia@454028b1.test.dnsbl.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:08:14 *** zeknurn [~sup@hd9483bd7.seveveb.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #openttd 20:33:35 <FLHerne> andythenorth: The three identical large roofs are still identical ;-) 20:34:07 <FLHerne> Could stick some small pipework or big flue vents or something on one or two of them? 20:37:04 <andythenorth> yup 20:41:01 *** M-E [~M@ip4da0d6bd.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #openttd 20:46:25 <Wolf01> finally... completed the instance at level 39 21:09:13 <sim642> I've managed to code up a dummy spectator client in nodejs now that can do IRC bridging without having to connect via admin port or whatever 21:09:44 <sim642> from the category "how to spend 2 days of your time implementing a plugin which will never be used for an IRC bot which will never be used" 21:10:10 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:11:11 * andythenorth must to bed 21:11:11 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has left #openttd [] 21:17:09 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has joined #openttd 21:17:40 *** Crisco [~oftc-webi@209.194.234.171] has joined #openttd 21:18:24 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 21:18:25 <drac_boy> hi 21:18:38 <Crisco> anyone help me out - how to add CPUs to existing saves? 21:19:59 <Alberth> ? 21:20:51 <frosch> what does cpu mean? 21:20:54 <drac_boy> cpus? ... ? 21:21:01 <drac_boy> heh seem I'm not the only one confused now 21:21:05 <Crisco> computer... a competitor 21:21:12 <drac_boy> you mean AI btw crisco :) 21:21:26 <frosch> open the ai settings in the menu 21:21:33 <frosch> and increase the number of competitors 21:21:44 <frosch> within the game, not in the mainscreen 21:22:03 <Crisco> but it says I need to download AI from the internet? 21:22:14 <Crisco> Isn't there a stock AI installed on the game? 21:22:27 <frosch> no 21:22:40 <drac_boy> frosch, really...so they stripped it out? 21:22:40 <Crisco> ah okay, can you suggest a good AI to download 21:22:58 <Alberth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Comparison_of_AIs 21:23:23 <frosch> drac_boy: are you eddi in disguise? 21:23:29 <frosch> did you play the game since 2009? 21:23:33 <Crisco> oh perfect 21:24:31 <drac_boy> heh frosch .. I still have no idea what you talking about .. the AI has been there ever since the game was first made .. unless like I asked, have they stripped it out recently? 21:24:49 <frosch> no, in 2009 21:25:10 <frosch> thus why i ask what "recently" means to you 21:25:54 <Rubidium> anything in the last 100ky? ;) 21:26:03 <_dp_> haha, didn't notice AI's are gone either 21:26:23 <_dp_> who needs them, AI's are stupid :p 21:26:41 <Crisco> Yeah but it gets repetitive just doing solo all the time 21:26:47 <Rubidium> _dp_: that's the whole point, some of the new ones aren't stupid 21:27:00 <_dp_> Crisco, go join some multiplayer server 21:27:00 <drac_boy> dp heh .. they may had not been good with rail routing but I never found them too absurb at all 21:27:02 <drac_boy> to our own tho 21:27:45 <Crisco> I'll give it a go 21:28:48 <FLHerne> Crisco: I'd recommend Reddit server 1 if you're new to multiplayer 21:29:19 <FLHerne> Busy, usually friendly, no newgrfs or scripts 21:29:46 *** urdh [~urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Boom!] 21:30:06 <FLHerne> Oh, and the map's just refreshed so there's loads of space to build atm :-) 21:32:33 *** urdh [~urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 21:38:00 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:44:56 <drac_boy> had to check web list just out of curiousity and hm this one probably would had sound good to me if it wasn't for the current date on there http://www.openttd.org/en/server/74477 21:45:31 <peter1138> reddit's rule 3 is stupid though 21:45:43 <drac_boy> rule? 21:46:34 <_dp_> still kinda miss a purpose of ai's, it's not a competitive game per se and if not competing then what, watching their weird networks? 21:46:53 <peter1138> sure it's competitive 21:47:04 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 21:47:17 <drac_boy> dp, your ai not building a station next to the same coal mine you're already using? :) 21:48:14 <_dp_> peter1138, hah, then what's the goal?)) 21:48:32 <drac_boy> peter ah I see what you mean about the rules...tbh for a cooperative game #3 is right in place tho 21:49:35 <V453000> I don't see any purpose in AI either 21:49:37 <V453000> at all 21:49:45 <V453000> just map clogger/cpu consumer 21:49:52 <peter1138> AI is meant to be a competitor 21:49:59 <peter1138> just because it's not very good at it doesn't matter 21:50:09 <peter1138> lets face it, newbies aren't very good at it either :p 21:50:09 <V453000> yeah that doesn't 21:50:26 <V453000> but the fact that it is infuriatingly terrible, does matter :P 21:50:52 <peter1138> that's why we defered the task of making it good to other script writers, heh 21:50:55 <V453000> yeah, AI able to beat a player who hasn't seen the game ever yet ... useful competitor. 21:51:44 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, i learned about signals from the AI 21:51:56 <Eddi|zuHause> the original ai, that is 21:52:16 <V453000> that probably explains your signalling knowledge XD :P 21:52:20 <V453000> had to :> 21:53:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not entirely sure whether that was still in the demo or if i had the full game already 21:55:59 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d0865af.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 21:57:00 <drac_boy> if its clogging your map then why are you blocking its original routes? I dunno tbh tho heh 21:57:54 <V453000> any piece of the map AI takes means stupid obstacle to the player 21:57:55 <drac_boy> although I think there was one single map that the early ai just didn't understand. some kind of britian map with lot of one-way signalled tracks 21:58:24 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db6b424.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 21:58:29 <drac_boy> umm like I said, if its making weird routes then why are you blocking its original one? 21:58:51 <V453000> ? 21:59:01 <Eddi|zuHause> no AI will understand rails that it did not build itself 21:59:05 <V453000> it always does weird shit even if the player doesn't interfere 21:59:29 <drac_boy> well I've only seen it not make straight rails if I left something of my own in its way while it was halfway through 22:00:00 <Eddi|zuHause> the original ai was terrible with roads, because it could not cross diagonal rails with a bridge 22:00:11 <Eddi|zuHause> so it left giant messes of circles 22:00:22 <Eddi|zuHause> and it never cleared roads up 22:00:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and you couldn't remove them eiher 22:00:39 <Eddi|zuHause> +t 22:00:42 <drac_boy> humans not clearing their roads also sometimes happens too 22:01:13 <drac_boy> at least in singleplayer that 'road owner invalided by lack of traffic' setting is nice to have nevertheless 22:01:19 <V453000> only a total retard would build messes of circles :P 22:01:50 <V453000> it is a shame no AI can build decent railways 22:01:57 <V453000> at least I haven't seen such 22:02:03 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: but they would not build 10x5 areas of completely filled roads 22:06:30 <drac_boy> actually they do indeed build many circling roads jst because they don't want to build the station in a more open spot 22:06:46 <drac_boy> kinda funny to watch this on tropical maps a bit too often :-s (no hills in way yeah) 22:07:56 <drac_boy> at least one good thing about tropical maps in MP was all the water to profit from :) 22:17:20 <drac_boy> crisco I know its bit OT now but just asking, you ever tried any industry grf or always only ever used the original one? 22:41:05 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch> drac_boy: are you eddi in disguise? <-- ey... i played the game in 2012! 22:45:55 <Wolf01> http://englishrussia.com/2016/02/13/most-unusual-buses-of-the-soviet-time/ nice, there are enough strange buses to make a full grf 22:47:44 *** roidal_ [~roland@194-152-171-164.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 22:50:09 <Eddi|zuHause> probably not enough pixels for that 22:54:42 <Supercheese> Who says that Mack trucks can't refit to passengers? http://englishrussia.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/9-800x600.jpg ;) 22:54:58 <Supercheese> fun stuff from that link 22:57:53 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 23:02:37 <drac_boy> wolf01 well....that first bus indeed looks rather strange 23:03:08 <drac_boy> and supercheese .. "truck" buses are actually somewhat typical in some countries around the africa or south europe areas .. I forgot exactly where but I've seen many photos taken of them 23:03:33 <Supercheese> yeah I can believe it, but it looks very very strange to me 23:03:56 <Wolf01> I've never seen a truck bus here 23:03:57 <Supercheese> US regulatory agencies would have a fit if such a thing was attempted here 23:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the amount of photos that exist of something is not really proportional with how common it is 23:04:04 <drac_boy> naturally eg france/usa/etc don't even allow them due to the usual "no passengers in a trailer when it is moving" kind of regulations (thats why a vehicle+trailer rv always has a small daytime interior in the vehicle half itself) 23:04:14 <drac_boy> supercheese see what I just said heh ^ 23:04:38 <Supercheese> ya 23:04:52 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: there have definitely been busses with trailers 23:05:30 <Wolf01> yes, but they are articulated buses, not completely separated vehicles 23:06:33 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 23:06:43 <drac_boy> wolf01 actually I forgot about it till now and I have no clue how the regulations covers them (I only know of swiss's example anyway) ... heres one for you http://www.trolleybus.ch/images/content/bilder_allg/Luzern_Portrait.jpg 23:07:17 <drac_boy> these were done due to the old buses being still reliable but not lowfloor-ready so rather than scrapping/selling the buses they simply added these low-floor units 23:08:21 <drac_boy> the window line difference says it all if you noticed 23:09:12 <Eddi|zuHause> no, not articulated. a real separated trailer: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:IFA_H6B_mit_PersonenanhÀnger_vom_Typ_HW80_(W701)._-_Flickr_-_gravitat-OFF.jpg 23:09:19 <drac_boy> funny thing about the swiss one tho is, the trailer has no motors .. but yet I haven't heard of any of them struggling through the snowy roads (the fact theres lot of slopes everywhere also says something too) 23:09:35 <drac_boy> probably the swiss people knew what a real winter-grip tire was :) 23:09:57 <drac_boy> (compared to eg the ottawa buses here that runs on same tire from summer through winter too often and they wonder why their buses get stuck a lot!) 23:10:58 *** frosch [~frosch@x5f744438.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 23:11:06 <sim-al2> Wait I thought most people "up north" so to speak had winter tires 23:12:25 <drac_boy> sim-a12 some crappy cities in canada have no clue .. whats offending is that the ottawa politics basically said "our climate is special that we can't just buy any winter tires yet" ... thats literally ignoring finland/switzerland/etc which have buses running on true winter tires of all the things 23:12:55 <drac_boy> I know about that quote because I actually read it in the meeting announcements some time ago 23:13:32 <drac_boy> and btw supercheese it looks like you can add cuba to the list I think http://muller.lbl.gov/travel_photos/Cuba/Cuba-Images/281.jpg 23:13:54 <drac_boy> the irregular roofline doesn't surprise me ... its probably following the floor height of the original trailer chassis me think? 23:14:15 <Eddi|zuHause> well, the bus type that i linked was usually driven without trailer if the route went through hilly terrain 23:14:57 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19A11.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:01 <Eddi|zuHause> oh: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trailer_bus 23:17:53 <drac_boy> oh and I forgot the usa city name now but on the topic of slight unusual things .. there was one usa city with trolleybus services ... and during certain winter days they always stationed a heavy haul tow truck at the bottom of a certain long steep street to push up any trolleybus that came this way 23:18:12 <drac_boy> apparently the roads were sometimes a bit too slick there a few days a year! 23:18:27 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: that sounds like san francisco :p 23:18:36 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:70fb:894c:bf4c:f7b0] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:19:00 <Supercheese> San Fran grades are steeeep 23:19:03 <sim-al2> I think San Francisco has had lots of trouble with buses stalling 23:19:11 <drac_boy> does it even snow in san francisco? :P 23:19:16 <sim-al2> Not really 23:19:22 <Supercheese> basically never 23:19:45 <sim-al2> Too close to the ocean, it's just north of what is essentially a Mediterrean climate 23:19:46 <Supercheese> if it ever snowed hard in San Fran, the city would be completely paralyzed 23:19:49 <Eddi|zuHause> well, how should i know... 23:20:06 <Supercheese> same goes for most of California 23:20:18 <drac_boy> sim-a12 little funny fact: sometimes the cable cars can have trouble re-engaging the cable after coming to a uphill red light stop and so you have these friendly bus or truck giving them a slow nudge to get a bit speed to try engage cable 23:20:22 <sim-al2> Coastal California, inland is far different 23:20:44 <Eddi|zuHause> california is huge... it spans several climate zones 23:21:29 <Eddi|zuHause> and in mountaneous areas you have these micro climates where every valley has its own unique climate 23:21:45 <sim-al2> Yeah, nothing like desert, temperate grassland, and temperate rainforest in the same state :) 23:22:42 <Eddi|zuHause> it's like you mushed spain, england and the alps together 23:22:49 <drac_boy> sim-a12 the real reason these nudges happens is because if the cable car from a standstill (and gravity working against it) tried to forcefully clamp onto the cable .. it would risk shredding the cable braids itself 23:23:03 <drac_boy> you know what I'm saying? this is what I have heard from some people watching these things 23:23:46 <sim-al2> Yeah, I know they use wood in the grip to ease the wear 23:24:04 <Wolf01> 'night 23:24:07 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:25:03 <drac_boy> sim-a12 btw did you know that there was actually a small cable car (vehicle even looked exactly like san franciso's) outside calfornia? it was on expo ground too 23:25:20 <Supercheese> Spokane, WA used to have cable cars too 23:25:32 <Supercheese> they ditched them though 23:25:48 <Supercheese> once buses got powerful enough and such 23:27:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: sometimes you just need them to be obsolete at the right time for someone to say "hey we should preserve them for tourism" 23:27:23 <sim-al2> There's been some complaints in SF about a private shuttle bus some company. It runs straight up one of the hills using just a regular coach bus, so it's slow and pretty loud 23:27:35 <Supercheese> well Spokane also doesn't have the crazy slopes that SF does 23:28:06 <sim-al2> The earliest railways used some cable haulage too, since steam locomotives in the 1830s weren't all that powerful 23:28:19 <Supercheese> those cable cars could ascend almost any grade at the same cable speed, crazy power available 23:28:32 <Supercheese> could/can 23:28:37 <sim-al2> So they tried to keep it as level as possible, and than had one big hill that the trains would be hauled up 23:28:44 <Eddi|zuHause> sim-al2: it also was that they didn't really trust the adhesion 23:29:02 <Eddi|zuHause> sim-al2: they usually dropped the cable as soon as they felt comfortable 23:29:15 <sim-al2> Supercheese: Not being limited to what fits on the vehicles helps a lot too 23:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> most rack rail lines met the same fate 23:29:57 <sim-al2> Yeah, true. Apparently some of the London terminai still have steep slopes near the station because of it 23:30:12 <Supercheese> it's pretty neat that every little coach has the massive power of the stationary engines available to it, basically only limited by gripping power 23:30:52 <Supercheese> I can see why the 19th century engineers thought it was the way to go 23:31:24 <Supercheese> but of course the severe limitation of only being able to go where the cable itself goes... 23:31:29 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: with trains you don't usually use a continuously running cable. more like one engine will go down, and another go up at the same time 23:32:09 <sim-al2> The Usui pass in central Japan started out as a rack railway, since it has slopes of 6.67%. In the early 60's they removed it and replaced it with pairs of dedicated electric locomotives that helped all trains up and down, even the multiple unit trains 23:32:41 <Eddi|zuHause> also, mountain cable cars mostly work on that principle as well 23:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't need a lot of power that way, as the masses are mostly balanced 23:33:16 <Supercheese> funiculars yeah 23:34:03 <Supercheese> ⪠FuniculÃ, Funiculá â« 23:34:39 <Eddi|zuHause> that song is rarely sung with the original text around here :p 23:35:26 <Supercheese> I hear lots of instrumental versions, even more so than ones with lyrics 23:35:48 <Supercheese> no one here would understand the original lyrics anyway 23:36:09 <Eddi|zuHause> with "not original" i mean really dirty versions that people come up when drunk :p 23:36:19 <Supercheese> Heh 23:41:34 <drac_boy> btw the glasgow metro was cable-worked in a circular manner too I believe.....later the electrical power pickups were retrofitted into the tunnel