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00:01:39 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:03:03 *** kais58 is now known as kais58|AFK 00:03:10 <drac_boy> sim-a12 that actually reminds me I think .. let me check... 00:05:28 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58 00:06:50 *** Crisco [~oftc-webi@209.194.234.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:06:54 <drac_boy> sim-a12 yeah they had 3rd rail ED* series (there were at least two generations as far as I recall from english pages) for banking duty .. at least one of these generation was always left in a 3-units working sets too 00:07:36 <drac_boy> and one later operation rule was that diesel-hydraulic sets had to have their drivetrain uncoupled then pushed up 'dead' due to the inherit problems in trying to match the two different locomotives together 00:08:31 <drac_boy> oh and why 3rd rail instead of overhead even although this was far from any urbans? well naturally steam era tunnel clearances was why (or thats what I think was said, I may be wrong on that particular tidbit) 00:10:11 <Eddi|zuHause> tunnels with 3rd rail was very standard... 00:10:39 <sim-al2> Uh in which area? 00:11:00 <sim-al2> *Drac_boy: Which area are you talking about? 00:11:14 <drac_boy> eddi well this one .. it was overhead at the stations and beyond .. but on just usui pass itself they had to use 3rd rail instead 00:11:34 <drac_boy> there being tons of old tunnel necessariting this doesn't surprise me 00:12:02 <sim-al2> Are you sure? I don't 3rd rail was ever used on the JNR lines 00:12:03 <drac_boy> sim-a12 usui pass 00:12:30 <drac_boy> and heres a good photo with the 3rd rail easily visible http://6.fan-site.net/~haasan55/images/Abtusui/usuihakutaka-2mm.JPG 00:12:39 <drac_boy> and thats one of these 3-units electric pusher on the tail 00:12:46 <Eddi|zuHause> tunnels are also the reason why on the swiss network the profile for pantographs is much smaller than in the rest of europe 00:12:49 <sim-al2> Oh wow 00:13:26 <drac_boy> sim-a12 seeing I can't read japanese well I *suspect* but could be wrong that this is the only one example of non-overhead electrification in open country for japan 00:13:39 <sim-al2> Oh, they were dual equiped locomotives: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/JGR-10001-EL.jpg 00:13:59 <drac_boy> sim-a12 'dual' was only so they could still work beyond the usui pass section itself after all :) 00:14:21 <sim-al2> Yeah, 3rd rail seems non-existant except for a few subway lines 00:15:07 <sim-al2> Makes me wonder if they used 750 VDC on the wires too 00:15:51 <drac_boy> sim-a12 well it could be dual dc voltage, you know 1500V or 3000V (whatever the usual was I forgot now) overhead but more direct <=750V for 3rd rail 00:16:03 <sim-al2> Whoops, it was 600 VDC 00:16:53 <sim-al2> These were built in the 1930's: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%9B%BD%E9%89%84ED42%E5%BD%A2%E9%9B%BB%E6%B0%97%E6%A9%9F%E9%96%A2%E8%BB%8A 00:17:00 <sim-al2> Good that text is a mess 00:17:27 <drac_boy> sim-a12 this may not always be the case but third rail usually was set at similar voltage the traction motors used....basically avoided large transformers when you could just run taps directly off the pickup shoes 00:17:49 <sim-al2> I don't think 3000 VDC was ever used, the mainlines were either 1500 VDC after the 30's/40's, or some systems in the 60's onwards 20kV, 50 or 60 Hz 00:18:24 <sim-al2> Many private railways used 600 or 750 VDC, but were upped to 1500 VDC through the 50's onward 00:19:12 <sim-al2> I think this was an isolated system until the 60's, as most of the mainlines were electrified by that point 00:19:29 <drac_boy> btw you're right but I guessed right that it was 1500V tho :) 00:20:29 <sim-al2> That DMU in the picture is either a Kiha 80/82 or a 181, they were used on the non-electrified lines until nearly all were electrified, and then served in more mountainous secondary lines 00:20:31 <drac_boy> I think like 3300V or so was generally the highest mass-usage-case for dc electrification anyhow. there may had been some single instances of ever higher but they wouldn't be among the common tho 00:21:36 <sim-al2> The Soviets had a segment of ~6000 VDC, in their experience DC electrifcation was more efficient, even with the wire losses and the high efficency of AC substations the locmotive equipment represented notable losses 00:22:29 <sim-al2> But since there was already 2 systems in use, no one wanted to create a large 3rd system 00:22:40 <drac_boy> heh 00:23:09 <drac_boy> btw sim-a12 there is also one very unusual electrification from the very early day, and its main purpose was to set a speed record .. I don't think it was even used for commerical purposes .. let me check one sec 00:23:24 <sim-al2> It's always possible someone will be a high voltage DC in the future, power transmission is already going that way, and electrical equipment is getting more and more capable of doing it 00:23:42 <sim-al2> *DC electrification system 00:25:05 <Flygon> You can use an overhead third rail... 00:25:19 <sim-al2> Notably in Japan, there is now an area of 25kV, 50 Hz through the Seikan tunnel, since freight trains and Shinkansen trains will be sharing the tracks starting next month 00:25:38 <sim-al2> They do use overhead third rail on the majority of subway lines 00:25:47 <drac_boy> http://dingler.culture.hu-berlin.de/dingler_static/pj319/32199826Z/tx3190771b.png here you go sim-a12 and THAT thing in 1903 went at like 210kph which was a big thing :) 00:26:08 <sim-al2> It's at the same height as catenary, but prevents arcing and other problems that would result from flexing 00:26:20 <drac_boy> and its 3 or 4 (I'm not certain exactly, details doesn't say much) separate lines feeding that test locomotive 00:26:33 <sim-al2> Damn looks like a full three-phase AC system 00:26:57 <sim-al2> Most three-phase systems used two wires, and the rails carried the 3rd phase 00:27:17 <drac_boy> sim-a12 well 1903 was probably a different day skills-wise 00:27:51 <sim-al2> Italian and Swiss systems were being built at that time, one Italian system used it into the 70's 00:28:17 <sim-al2> I think there are still some isolated mountain railways that still do 00:28:18 <drac_boy> actually I know one (which is still running with its original well-preserved woodie cladded locomotive) rack railway that had dual overhead wires using "half-width" bow collectors on both 00:29:02 <drac_boy> let me see if I can find that one again one sec 00:29:11 <sim-al2> Yeah, the drawback is that the wires have to be seperate, which makes switches, etc harder to wire 00:29:53 <drac_boy> yep here we are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rhune_electric_system.jpg 00:29:55 <sim-al2> Thus the widespread use of single-phase, which only needs the one wire 00:30:13 <drac_boy> well it was a one-train line so they had no turnouts I imagine :P 00:30:34 <drac_boy> look at that old classic pre-metalbody locomotive tho heh :) 00:30:53 <drac_boy> the side access panels actually faces the traction motor as I recall from my rail magazine that ran an article on this particular railway 00:31:56 <drac_boy> sim-a12 either way its nice that you seem to know your KIHA units .. I just know that a kiha is a kiha and thats about it :-s 00:32:14 <drac_boy> hehe 00:32:31 <sim-al2> There's a very small chance it's a Kiha 90, I don't think many of those were produced though 00:32:50 <sim-al2> English sources are kinda of rare unfortunatly 00:33:12 <sim-al2> The important difference between the 80 and the 181 is the engines used 00:34:10 <sim-al2> On the 80, middle cars (except the dining cars where used) has two DMF17 engines, 250 hp each, driving one axle each on the adjacent bogie 00:34:32 <drac_boy> sim-a12 on the other hand I do know that the locomotive classification system mentions that there can be eg kiku which was a control car with no engines to use together with the kiha's 00:35:49 <sim-al2> The cab car has only one engine, and the dining car none (I think), because the hold decent size generators that provide electrical power 00:36:31 <drac_boy> well the dining car was likely paired with at least 2 if not more coaches hence theres probably still enough power in the entire trainset nevertheless? 00:36:33 <sim-al2> The early 80s look really odd, they had a large bonnet going: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/JNR_Kiha80.jpg 00:37:00 <sim-al2> Yeah, I think the diner's power consumption is the equivalent of three regular cars 00:37:31 <drac_boy> heheh oh boy sim-a12 theres actually a few EMU and DMU sets with that sort of bonnets .. even some of these had 1950's fashion stacked headlights sticking out too 00:38:12 <sim-al2> Oh whoops, the diner does have a single propulsion engine 00:39:29 <sim-al2> The 151 series EMU and early 481/485 dual voltage trains had it too 00:39:51 <sim-al2> Also the 181, basically later production 151s 00:40:28 <drac_boy> yeah the 151 is kinda what I was thinking even :) 00:40:44 <drac_boy> some of the others had more pronounced ones 00:41:01 <sim-al2> They created the Japanese limited express (long distance) train format, with good speed capiblities compared to their predecessors (even on the narrow gauge, the 151 hit 161km/h), and distributed traction throughout the train 00:41:21 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:41:40 <sim-al2> Essentially, they are the predecessor to the Shinkansen 00:42:10 <drac_boy> sim-a12 btw there is one particular trainset that just has a little bonnet but nevertheless had one interesting design difference..one sec :p 00:42:35 <sim-al2> 151 kei: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/2/2c/%E5%9B%BD%E9%89%84151%E7%B3%BB_2.jpg\ 00:43:27 <sim-al2> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ja/7/7e/%E5%9B%BD%E9%89%84151%E7%B3%BB.jpg 00:43:51 <sim-al2> Damn, it's breaking my links 00:43:59 <sim-al2> 2nd one works though 00:46:02 <sim-al2> There were many of the bonnet style in service until the 2000's/past few years, as early cab cars were mated with later 485 trains capable of operating on both 50 and 60 Hz AC power 00:47:22 <sim-al2> 481 and 483 were both dual voltage, it's just that 481 was for 60Hz, and the 483 for 50Hz, as transformers weren't as advanced in the early 60's 00:48:24 <drac_boy> here sim-a12 took me a while to find its actual numbering (rather than the grouped "romance railcar" label as english sometimes gives them) https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/å°ç°æ¥7000圢é»è» 00:48:58 <drac_boy> imagine the front seat bench was a bit of exclusive reservation, not sure 00:49:06 <sim-al2> Oh, the Kiha 90 and Kiha 181 had only one engine per car, a much more powerful DML30 rated at 500hp, and on some later trains, over 600hp. It was a 180 degree V12 design, far more advanced than the DMF17, which dated to the 1930's 00:49:34 <sim-al2> Your link didn't work for me, it got corrupted :( 00:49:48 <sim-al2> Oh Odakyu 00:50:44 <drac_boy> 600hp V12? thats something compared to 550hp total from two 6-inline engines the budd rdc came configured with from factory 00:51:06 <drac_boy> at least later repowers (especially with cummins or detroit engine in some cases) had a lot more power 00:51:24 <sim-al2> Oh yeah, but the Budds were powered by engines from the early 40's 00:52:10 <sim-al2> Not even turbocharged, and 2-stroke oo 00:52:13 <sim-al2> *too 00:52:46 <drac_boy> the funny thing is one of these repower was for the VIA northern line ... the rdc could had gotten over 100kph in no time, but of course with the old rails its in-service speed was generally just about 40-60kph max 00:54:08 <sim-al2> Yeah I've read about those, they still have two engines right? It seemed almost like they removed one during the rebuild 00:54:54 <drac_boy> sim-a12 actually the way the mechanicals is set up .. its one engine per truck .. and HEP/etc has to be drawn off one or both units 00:55:12 <drac_boy> so thats why it was a bit easier to just keep them dual-power even if only one engine was really enough 00:55:53 <sim-al2> Oh huh, I thought it might be rather unpowered with only 400hp, but Vancouver island seems pretty flat 00:56:40 <drac_boy> funny enough there was a RDC-9 that had just one engine (likely just one single truck was powered by then tho) and no cabs .. call it an intermidate-only coach I suspect 00:56:43 <sim-al2> But of course the other lines in the east are probably have a little bit more going on 00:57:33 <sim-al2> Yeah, RDC-9 seems to be the result of Budd warning railroads against using regular coaches in the trains for fear of damaging the transmissions 00:59:00 <drac_boy> sim-a12 well the funny thing is noone seem to have asked budd about the rdc's being used as dead-towed coaches in a loco hauled train too 00:59:04 <sim-al2> One rather interesting way they were used, they featured full steam-pipe hookups so they could be attached to the end of a regular train and hauled to an intermediate destination 00:59:31 <sim-al2> They actually were, Budd included procedures in the manuals on how to do so 00:59:56 <sim-al2> One engine does have to kept idiling, but fuel wasn't expensive then 01:00:38 <drac_boy> I know one railroad that basically had a train that went a bit like FA1-rpo-heavyweightcoach*3-rdc-coach-rdc-coach-coach .. basically one single starting city point but terminate at three separate rural points :) 01:00:43 <sim-al2> The steam system also provided low-level heat to keep the toilets and engine water systems from freezing during layovers 01:01:04 <sim-al2> Oh yeah, that sounds about right 01:01:25 <drac_boy> sim-a12 about steam-pipe thats actually why some "high speed" boxcars actually had pass-through pipes or wires as to be mashed behind the locomotive in express trains 01:01:51 <drac_boy> there even were one large fleet of amtrak-specific HEP-ready boxcars (most has been retired by now tho) 01:02:07 <drac_boy> one sec I know where a few were still being put up for sale privately... 01:02:17 <sim-al2> The Denver and Rio Grande actually had a long-distance RDC train, used on 900+ mile train 01:02:35 <drac_boy> here http://www.railmerchants.net/amtrak-material-handling/ 01:03:12 <sim-al2> Certain express cars featured steam heating systems, as silkworms and other cargo needed to be kept warm during transportation 01:03:40 <drac_boy> oh well.. pass-through versus using it are two different things but mm yeah 01:03:51 <sim-al2> The Milwaukee road would put their crack electric passenger locomotives on such trains 01:04:09 <drac_boy> sim-a12 actually.. silk and milwaukee reminds me of an exact artwork one moment :P 01:05:45 <sim-al2> Yeah, the MHCs had HEP, but Amtrak express boxcars (basically regular cars except for passenger trucks) didn't. They also had freight type air brake valves, which meant the brakes had to be run in direct release, not graduated 01:07:39 <drac_boy> ah seem whoever drew it took it offline finally..oh well heres something with passenger wagon instead of hi-cube silk boxcars tho http://www.jordanart.com/Images/medium%20size%20art/juice.jpg 01:08:56 <sim-al2> Yeah, the EP2s are rather interesting, traction motor amatures mounted on the axles themselves 01:09:29 <drac_boy> btw sim-a12 the funny thing is that the bells were connected to an automate circuit that would always ring the bell at low speed, apparently their direct-drive motor was too quiet around the yards :) 01:11:13 <drac_boy> don't tell anyone personally but for me I sorta always liked the EP-2 over the GG1 aethistic-wise for some reason 01:11:16 <sim-al2> Heh wow, I suppose the EF1s didn't have that problem :D 01:11:36 <drac_boy> the GG1 does have its own merits tho, especially for highspeed commuter services (and probably saving the electric system for amtrak era) 01:11:40 * sim-al2 hides from the fanboy assault 01:12:19 <drac_boy> kinda funny that it took a foreign-designed locomotive to one-up the GG1 itself (the homemade EC60-something was a failure in face of FRA) 01:12:28 <sim-al2> There was freight gearing for the GG1 too, they were used double-headed on freights even into the Penn Central era 01:12:58 <sim-al2> Yeah, the problem was that the E60C was a freight locomotive through and through 01:13:08 <drac_boy> sim-a12 ah..well they were good on fast freights or modest things such as autocarriers/boxcars/etc ... they didn't exactly handle heavy tonnage that well due to the direct AC drive which could slip a lot 01:13:24 <drac_boy> thats why a lot of the times if you saw a GG1 in freight service it was quite often running doublehead 01:13:37 <sim-al2> Same bogies and frame design as GE diesels of the time, and little in the way of weight reduction possible 01:14:40 <drac_boy> sim-a12 btw the "passenger" SD unit also had its own problem with water tank mounted above chassis line and would derail a lot ... therefore the F40PH design which came soon enough to kill off the rusting F units away in a manner speaking 01:14:40 <sim-al2> Yeah, the pilot axles took weight off the drivers, but they were needed with the way the frames were designed 01:15:04 <sim-al2> Yeah, apparently the tank had no baffling, for some reason 01:15:08 <drac_boy> I forgot the numbering .. just that it was SD-something 01:15:36 <sim-al2> SDP40F 01:16:50 <drac_boy> santa fe on the other hand did have some dual freight-or-passenger duty diesels (I believe they came later enough to such that they only needed HEP not steam aboard) ... and sure enough a number of the passenger ones were turned into freight units later on 01:16:51 <sim-al2> For whatever reason, the extra water capacity Amtrak wanted over the passenger versions of the SD40/SD45 was too much 01:17:28 <drac_boy> not sure of all the details, and I forgot the # either 01:17:28 <sim-al2> No HEP until Amtrak developed it, Santa Fe used steam on the trains it was running at the time 01:18:29 <sim-al2> Before HEP, each car carried it's own large-capacity batteries and axle-generators, and whatever inverter it might need, even for air conditioning 01:19:29 <drac_boy> I do recall that amtrak kinda did not want some of santa fe's long-distance wagons which had a vapour-steam dual climate system or something to that effect (but amtrak took them anyway as to be able to buy the big fleet of other wagons especially superlevels that they did want!) and after many troubles finally rebuilt them in a more conventional mechanical fashion 01:19:42 <sim-al2> There a few SDP40s and SDP45s with steam generators, as well as the FP45 and U30CG 01:20:01 <drac_boy> as to why santa fe had these in first place was rather easy to understand .. it was one single wagon that had to operate through ever-changing climate nonstop from the snowy east to the hot sunny west 01:20:55 <sim-al2> I think a number of the cars that Amtrak had were ex-Santa Fe, apparently Amtrak had to buy ALL the cars because Amtrak had been low-balling for the more modern cars so long the managment got sick of it 01:21:17 <sim-al2> A number of heavyweights were owned by Amtrak for a short time, but were scrapped onsite 01:23:07 <drac_boy> sim-a12 you're correct...amtrak tried offer one price, got turned down, offered another only to get same thing...and then actually phoned one of the man while he was on vacation .. final result was basically "you can have these wagons IF you take EVERYTHING except a few private wagons!" 01:23:35 <drac_boy> I actually was reading an article about this santafe-to-amtrak era before and funny enough recall some bits of it now :) 01:24:57 <drac_boy> oh and it even mentioned how santa fe later did not let amtrak use the Super Chief (or was it a different Chief? I forgot) name anymore as they did not agree on the then-existing trainset's condition 01:28:05 <drac_boy> sim-a12 I forgot the exact name of it but did you know that one of the diesel santa fe train actually "ran" as two separate trains even with separated dining services too 01:28:12 <drac_boy> it was some kind of seasonal thing I think 01:30:08 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:33:15 <drac_boy> sim-a12 heres a silly usa quiz for you, what electric locomotive was meant to be shipped as a 5ft gauged one to russia bu tthen the embargo happened so many of them were regauged to 4ft8 and generally quite re-wired for at least three different buyers? ;) 01:58:25 <sim-al2> GE Little Joe, whatever the actual designation was 01:58:53 <sim-al2> Impressive to get a locomotive like that to run on 1500 VDC and 3000 VDC 01:59:50 <Eddi|zuHause> that is not hard at all 02:00:12 <sim-al2> at the same power 02:00:44 <Eddi|zuHause> that's "just" a matter of driving more amperes through the wire 02:01:23 <drac_boy> well eddi..just one or two of them was enough to brown out the grid till they were moved to working during more nightly hours :) 02:02:08 <drac_boy> and the same arthor who found about this also mentioned that on riding one of them it dropped its brake riggings in middle of a turnout .. some tape fixed it tho 02:03:17 <drac_boy> sim-a12 yeah the 'little joe' was a milwaukee nickname for stalin 02:07:15 <sim-al2> Actually I have to wonder if they were modified at all for the South Shore, operation would have been possible with much reduced performance 02:07:37 <drac_boy> sim-a12 also not same kind of subject but theres at least one tourist line in usa that still had (last the article was written a few years ago) a slight strange looking steam locomotive which had low-profile domes, scrunized cab roof (almost could rub hat onto it), and some narrow valves .. turns out it was a for-uk locomotive that never got shipped out post-1945! 02:08:00 <drac_boy> the comparison of it sitting next to a "normal" usa locomotive of same mechanical type is a bit funny photo wise 02:09:01 <sim-al2> Oh wow: http://www.american-rails.com/images/CSSSBLJsStreetMC.jpg 02:09:02 <drac_boy> it was a tender not tank locomotive mind you 02:09:37 <drac_boy> hey ... that car looks like nothing to the locomotive, the two of these better watch out for each others :P 02:12:55 <sim-al2> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J092L-aaay8 02:14:13 <drac_boy> sim-a12 mind you I have liked CSS/SS emu's even the newer nippon ones. and for the record did you know that the classic CSS orange ones had been extended in the middle to increase their capacity during the war as an economical low-cost measure? :) 02:15:45 <drac_boy> went from like 50-60 something seats to 80 seating plus climate control I think was added at the time (or was that factory anyway..) 02:16:16 <sim-al2> They had some interesting locomotives too: http://www.monon.monon.org/ssscans02/08-17SouthShore700series01.jpg 02:16:45 <drac_boy> "interesting"? umm you wait right there I will show you something very uncommon :P 02:16:53 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:35 <drac_boy> bit dark photo but here http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0401/cns459a.jpg thats actually basically a (B+B)-(B+B) if I recall the uic system right .. kinda interesting heavy freight locomotive that looks a bit light on weight at same time nevertheless 02:25:02 <drac_boy> I pretty much imagine a C-C arrangement wouldn't be enough (or tracks were too curved) 02:25:05 <sim-al2> wow 02:25:31 <drac_boy> and yep for being shoreline it had to share trolleypoles with the frequent commuter emus :) 02:25:37 <sim-al2> The dual trolley poles is an interesting touch... 02:25:56 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 02:26:19 <drac_boy> sim-a12 yeah its kinda an interesting locomotive where you can see two B trucks mounted to a chassis which is then attached to ANOTHER chassis :) 02:26:31 <sim-al2> As is the partially exposed equipment next to the cab 02:26:48 <drac_boy> haha looks like someone actually removed the side panels..theres still a roof panel over it 02:26:49 <drac_boy> :) 02:27:09 <sim-al2> Yeah, I don't think it will last long exposed like that... 02:28:03 <sim-al2> Apparently the South Shore had one that was equipped with third rail shoes, so it could operate on all three interurban systems in Chicago 02:28:12 <drac_boy> sim-a12 btw the same railroad also had something else you might like one moment... 02:29:50 <drac_boy> these were called Pug or something to that effect because of how they always seem to run bunched together heads-to-heads https://thetrolleydodger.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/img255-tif.jpg?w=665&h=454 02:30:16 <drac_boy> and a different centercab design that was a electric-battery hybrid for non-wire operations around yard or light industrial sections http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0200/cns456b.jpg 02:30:31 <drac_boy> the batteries pretty much sat where the walkways otherwise could had gone 02:31:30 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 02:31:46 <sim-al2> The first one is a pretty common steeple-cab design that could be found on many interurbans 02:32:09 <drac_boy> sim-a12 problem is the first one only has one single end .. the cab was located on back just like on an SW1200 02:32:14 <sim-al2> Oh 02:33:22 <sim-al2> There seems to have been a number of dual or tri power locomotives during the late 20's/early 30's, since diesel engines were just starting to appear on railroads 02:33:44 <sim-al2> Using batteries to reach the sidings of course 02:33:51 <drac_boy> and btw about 3rd rail .. the "famous" Electroliner was dual trolleypole/3rd for same reason .. overhead in the open but 3rd through chicago pieces 02:34:10 <drac_boy> that was one interesting little trainset thats thankfully still preserved :) 02:35:02 <sim-al2> Quite a few interurbans were like that, using 3rd rail or a high voltage AC in the outer areas, and low voltage (600VDC) in urban areas 02:35:39 <drac_boy> the reason the electroliner had rather short cars compared to mainline ones was obviously due to the city-kind sharp curves it had to operate over on frequently 02:35:55 <sim-al2> I found a brochure from Westinghouse from about 1910 or so, that has quite a bit of detail 02:36:25 <drac_boy> talk about doing eg 40kph around a curb-tight curve on street level one minute then doing 100kph on the open straightways with no roads to worry about :) 02:36:26 <sim-al2> Yeah, it had to fit on lines that eventually became the subway lines 02:36:36 <sim-al2> *some lines 02:38:59 <Eddi|zuHause> <drac_boy> bit dark photo but here http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr0401/cns459a.jpg thats actually basically a (B+B)-(B+B) if I recall the uic system right <-- almost... "+" would mean it could be separated at that point 02:39:37 <drac_boy> funny re you mention about dual/tri .. I still recall a magazine photo that was titled "nothing new under the sun" . guess what it was? said that the idea of hybird power was nothing new look at this old GE-built little steeplecab that had batteries in one end and a genset in other end 02:39:38 <Eddi|zuHause> also, the soviets planned a bigger version of the M92 with such a wheel arrangement 02:39:52 <drac_boy> it was dated like 1910's or 1920's roughly 02:40:08 <drac_boy> eddi..ah good point, I'm not always used to certain details of the UIC system 02:41:11 <drac_boy> sim-a12 the LIRR railroad even did have some hybrid locomotive a long time ago too 02:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i might be wrong 02:47:25 <drac_boy> oh and I believe SBB not too recently ordered a small 2-axle shunter that was not surprisingly a diesel engine (plus the electric transformer as well) under the hood and pantograph on the roof. pretty much looked like a 40-50kph max locomotive to me 02:48:11 <drac_boy> ah, semi-centercab but here still http://www.railwaygazette.com/uploads/pics/tn_ch-sbbcargo-eem923-electrodiesel-shunter-stadler.jpg 02:49:49 <sim-al2> It's actually 100km/h max 02:50:29 <drac_boy> oh, well the small rating and its duty had me thinking that at first before..the article didn't say a lot as they were only just starting to ship them at the time 02:51:27 <sim-al2> It's a Stadler, they also introduced a similar pure-electric design (although less powerful) 02:51:37 <sim-al2> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_Eem_923 02:51:38 <Eddi|zuHause> if they are "starting to ship", the design speed has been known for very long already 02:52:24 <drac_boy> there is always the Gem 4/4, a classic thats still around :) 02:53:41 <sim-al2> That's a RhB locomotive, but yes they are very cool 02:55:08 <drac_boy> btw its somewhat vintage but if you want dual power in east part of usa, how about the emd FL9 which had its unusual B'A1A' arrangement due to the additional transformer/boiler combo weight near rear end 02:55:27 <sim-al2> No transformer, those need AC current to do anything 02:55:48 <drac_boy> the 3rd rail eventually was never used due to lack of deffered maintenance and diesel power often ran through the Grand Terminal even although they were not supposed to 02:55:58 <sim-al2> It was just that the boiler put it over the max axle weight limit for the Park Avenue viaduct 02:56:14 <sim-al2> *for B-B 02:56:48 <sim-al2> Yeah, the New Haven and the Penn Central were not known for good maintenance 02:57:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what happens when you leave maintenance up to capitalists... 02:59:10 <sim-al2> It was the 70's, the highways allowed truck companies (who were being deregulated) to destroy the railroads spectacularly 02:59:50 <sim-al2> Nevermind that Nixon planned on Amtrak being the company that would wind down passenger service completely... 03:00:14 <drac_boy> anyway sorry about stopping this fun chat short but I'm going to bed already..maybe if you two are still around tomorrow for some more random real rail topics? :) 03:00:31 <sim-al2> Sure, night 03:00:31 <drac_boy> yeah .. a "for profit" amtrak that still is a bit difficult to do :-s 03:00:42 <drac_boy> have fun till next time anyway :) 03:00:44 <drac_boy> bye now :p 03:00:50 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 03:02:54 <sim-al2> Of course the New Haven brought it on themselves anyway, they planned to remove their electrification and replace diesels, but then ended up with diesels burning suddenly rather expensive fuel and a electrification system that would never be shutdown anyway... 03:05:38 <Eddi|zuHause> oh yeah the golden 70s... where clean diesel was the future over the dirty electric 03:05:57 <sim-al2> Even the politicans were smoking something then 03:06:01 <Eddi|zuHause> fuck trams, use busses! 03:06:14 <sim-al2> Yup, that;s totally worked out... 03:06:28 * sim-al2 looks at city bus schedule 03:06:35 <sim-al2> Oh wait 03:12:02 <sim-al2> But seriously, a city of 600,000 + people, and transit is not even on the political radar 03:12:17 <sim-al2> They somehow find bus routes to keep cutting 03:13:13 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, with every little-used line you cut, you reduce another line from medium to little use 03:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause> which you then again can cut 03:14:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a nice vicious cycle 03:14:06 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@177.201.140.181] has joined #openttd 03:14:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but "capitalism" still works as long as you cut faster than the income drops 03:15:28 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d086936.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 03:20:48 *** Clockworker__ [~Clockwork@189-72-25-241.paemt701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:21:25 <sim-al2> Yeah, but in this case it's been city-owned forever. They've had plans to built a light rail line (fancy tram) to the airport for 20+ years, but I don't see how that could happen 03:22:28 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d0865af.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:22:59 <sim-al2> Birmingham, Alabama, had been cutting so hard they've actually got the Department of Justice on them, since the cuts affect inner city minorities quite badly 03:33:58 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 03:37:04 <Eddi|zuHause> being city-owned does not mean it's not run by capitalists 04:22:09 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 04:56:33 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 05:59:48 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:25 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 06:05:37 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:05:40 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 06:12:20 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:14:13 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-250-122.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:15:53 *** ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b227:6db7:9381:e6a:34a:81d7] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:20:18 *** Flygon [~Flygon@ppp118-209-250-122.lns20.mel8.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 06:22:25 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 06:22:28 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 06:27:54 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has joined #openttd 06:29:10 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:30:30 *** ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b227:6db7:9381:e6a:34a:81d7] has joined #openttd 06:37:18 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Quit: :q!] 06:57:17 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 06:58:20 *** ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b227:6db7:9381:e6a:34a:81d7] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:14:15 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 07:24:30 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 07:34:15 *** ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b227:6db7:9381:e6a:34a:81d7] has joined #openttd 07:34:28 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:49:53 *** roidal [~roland@193-154-139-172.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 08:15:21 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:33:33 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:35:39 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:37:38 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:09 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 09:11:25 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:20:17 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 09:29:24 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:29:27 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 09:32:04 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6CACD.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:13 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:36:56 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:5c2d:2a41:5773:8743] has joined #openttd 09:37:02 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 09:56:02 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59:46 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:03 *** day [~day@CPE-60-226-8-38.wrcz1.cha.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 10:15:54 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 10:33:36 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 10:35:54 *** roidal [~roland@193-154-139-172.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:41:38 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 10:51:18 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:13:18 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host243-238-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 11:13:32 <Wolf01> moin 11:26:27 <argoneus> good MORNING train FRIENDS 11:26:39 <Wolf01> what's morning? 11:27:09 <argoneus> it's something I seem to skip every day 11:27:35 <Wolf01> like me 11:41:51 *** AdmiralKewl [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has joined #openttd 11:43:14 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:45 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 11:47:54 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-168-25.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 11:48:00 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:48:45 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 11:50:09 *** AdmiralKewl [~pcc31@119.94.104.228] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:29:24 *** qwebirc75216 [~oftc-webi@223.17.104.139] has joined #openttd 12:30:14 *** roidal_ [~roland@62-46-142-78.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 12:32:32 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:01 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:33:10 <qwebirc75216> ... Is there any way to check where's the other end of tunnel in openttd? I'm now playing an android port of the game with 512*512 map and 128 max tunnel length then I randomly put a tunnel somewhere accidentally. The resulting tunnel seems very long but I don't know where's its another exit. Is there any way for me to check? 12:35:21 *** roidal [~roland@194-152-168-25.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:36:53 *** roidal [~roland@193-154-143-31.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 12:42:21 *** roidal_ [~roland@62-46-142-78.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:46:25 <Wolf01> qwebirc75216, follow the rabbit in the hole? The tunnel is straight and can end only at the same height, so it might only be at the other side of the map if it's very long. Also I suggest to use transparency options to hide trees and find easily the entrance 12:46:57 <Wolf01> or put a depot in front of the entrance you know and start a vehicle and follow it 13:42:30 *** qwebirc75216 [~oftc-webi@223.17.104.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:42:59 <_dp_> there is a limit to tunnel length, so it can't be too far, 64 tiles or smth, mb configurable though 13:43:27 *** ghost64 [~ghost64@corrigan.xyz] has left #openttd [Leaving] 13:49:46 <Wolf01> uhm, nice city name "Lamerburn" 14:05:10 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 14:15:52 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:46 *** Belugas [~belugas@00011985.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces] 15:00:05 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-178.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 15:09:50 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 15:10:06 <drac_boy> so...who want some random rail chat again? :p heh 15:13:37 *** Clockworker_ [~Clockwork@177.201.140.181] has joined #openttd 15:16:38 <drac_boy> hi clockworker, wheres the counterclockworker now? :) 15:21:01 *** Clockworker [~Clockwork@177.201.140.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:24:00 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 15:24:04 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 15:33:59 <Wolf01> mmmh it seem I can't get my mod to work with windward :| 15:35:06 <drac_boy> windward? 15:39:42 <drac_boy> whats this re windward and mod? 15:40:51 <Wolf01> it's a game I and Eddi are playing 15:43:13 <drac_boy> oh game...hm..is that the sail one from steam? 15:43:20 <Wolf01> yes 15:45:53 <drac_boy> well, hope you two having fun either way allright? :) 15:47:30 <Wolf01> it's a nice game 15:57:33 <drac_boy> well I already have enough to play with (neverminding slow progress on additionals for them like eg this grf for ttdxp) 15:57:35 <drac_boy> :) 16:16:40 *** George [~George@185.43.94.91] has joined #openttd 16:17:05 <George> Hi 16:17:22 <George> Need the advice about desyncs 16:18:39 <drac_boy> your or someone else's server? 16:24:06 <George> There is no server 16:24:16 <George> There is the grf 16:24:28 <George> it has the following part 16:24:31 <George> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/xussrset/repository/entry/src/freight/boxcars/ntv.pnml 16:24:33 <drac_boy> oh, dunno then sorry. someone else here probably could help you tho 16:24:57 <George> lines 186-189 16:25:27 <George> It is intended, that the wagon would change the capacity when visit the depot 16:25:43 <George> but it does not work as intended 16:27:05 <George> Capacity is somehow cached and is changed several days after vehicle leaves the depot 16:28:00 <George> causing error message "GRF changed capacity outside depot" 16:28:57 <George> The question is - how to change capacity depending on last service date correctly (causing no desync error)? 16:35:36 <drac_boy> going off for some lunch now, good luck anyhow :) 16:35:39 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 16:36:16 <George> isn't it to late for lunch? ;) 16:37:51 <Alberth> depending on which part of the world you live, probably not :) 16:40:13 <George> Alberth: may be you can suggest something about my desync question? 16:41:06 <Alberth> I had a quick look, and it seemed ok at first sight, but then again, I am a total noob at NdewGRFs 16:41:17 <Alberth> did you however verify this is the real problem? 16:41:41 <Alberth> ie take that code out, and see if the desync is solved? 16:42:57 <Alberth> xussrset is very big, maybe it is a different capacity 16:43:04 <George> Yes. This code causes error message 16:43:16 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:43:19 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai|noir] by ChanServ 16:43:31 <Alberth> ok, that narrows it down considerably 16:43:57 <Alberth> I am afraid you'll have to wait until a more knowledgeable person appears 16:44:35 <George> Anybody here? :D 16:47:02 <Alberth> I wonder if you can set the capacity explicitly 16:47:11 <Wolf01> I'm here, but I don't know anything about newgrfs :( 16:47:43 <George> Alberth: How? 16:48:14 <Alberth> I don't know :( 16:48:47 <Alberth> but your check basically works only after you left the depot, rather than making a change while you are in the depot 16:49:19 <Alberth> ie the servicing code doesn't get a hint that you are about to change the capacity 16:50:16 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:00:26 <Alberth> the only other thing about capacity seems to be refitting 17:00:57 <Alberth> maybe it's a limitation of the newgrf to only allow capacity change when refitting??? 17:01:34 <planetmaker> I actually believe that is the case 17:01:40 <planetmaker> And tbh, that's sensible 17:02:02 <planetmaker> A player wants the vehicle to service regularily for his train to function properly 17:02:34 <George> And how would this code would break it? 17:02:35 <planetmaker> And a change to *capacity* on *service* is going to mess with his setup - something a player cannot avoid happening 17:02:55 <planetmaker> it breaks it by changing capacity depending on service date 17:03:18 <planetmaker> it's something which cannot be done 17:03:18 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-177-204.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #openttd 17:03:38 *** ck [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b20f:6d5f:2a7b:e47:e28:e095] has joined #openttd 17:03:43 *** ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b227:6db7:9381:e6a:34a:81d7] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:03:46 *** namad7 [aaaaa@pool-173-75-34-156.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 17:03:56 <George> And how it BREAKS proper functioning? 17:04:01 <planetmaker> a refit - on the other hand - is always something the player explicitly asks for. So that is different. And a refit is also clearly something which changes the consist 17:04:08 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-178.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:04:12 *** ck is now known as Guest3927 17:04:13 *** Guest3927 [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b20f:6d5f:2a7b:e47:e28:e095] has quit [] 17:04:23 <George> A player gets better wagon after service 17:04:39 <planetmaker> George, it breaks my well-balanced train network by the fact that a single train now takes more cargo 17:04:50 *** ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b20f:6d5f:2a7b:e47:e28:e095] has joined #openttd 17:05:01 <planetmaker> it takes cargo which a 2nd train won't get. So that the chain the 2nd train supports gets less. Thus starting a domino process 17:05:22 <planetmaker> it will unbalance my network where I have time-tabled trains such that my industries will remain well-supplied 17:05:38 <planetmaker> more capacity != better. At least not generally 17:05:54 <planetmaker> nor is faster 17:06:06 <Alberth> well, without explicit user interaction at least 17:06:15 <planetmaker> yes, of course :) 17:06:33 <Alberth> If I refit, and thus change the consist, it's all my fault :p 17:06:43 <planetmaker> yup. But then you know what you do 17:07:10 <Alberth> planetmaker gets angry at me for messing up the network :) 17:07:16 *** namad7 [aaaaa@pool-173-75-34-156.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 17:08:00 *** Biolunar_ [Biolunar@x4d086936.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:09:58 <V453000> more capacity also means worse acceleration 17:11:40 <V453000> but in general capacity should indeed never change once built 17:11:48 <V453000> most importantly ... why? 17:12:08 <George> The railway rules 17:12:30 <V453000> railway rules? 17:13:07 <V453000> like railtype rules? or? 17:14:34 <George> No. I mean RL. 17:14:49 <V453000> but why upon service? :d 17:15:34 <V453000> "in year 1920 a new law came out that wagons shall not carry more than 20t" ... so that you would reduce/increase wagon capacity upon service? 17:18:11 <George> ÐÑÑ 17:18:14 <George> Yes 17:18:23 <V453000> why not just introduce a new generation of wagons? 17:18:46 <George> Because the player can use old wagons in such case 17:19:12 <George> With refit on service he can't 17:19:17 <V453000> you can prohibit old wagons to be haulable by modern vehicles 17:19:35 <V453000> also, many people don't service their trains very often, if ever 17:20:41 <George> In case unserviced they whould have low reliability 17:21:01 <V453000> yes but anybody playing without breakdowns won't care 17:21:32 <George> yes, unless he sends it to depot for some reason 17:22:04 <V453000> then the law you are trying to apply will only appear when autoreplacing 17:22:26 <V453000> so the player will upgrade their trains, thinking all is fine, and wagons suddenly drop capacity? 17:22:35 <V453000> that sounds like a bug to me on the first sight 17:23:39 <Wolf01> too much realism that leads to obscure game mechanic... bad feature imho 17:23:54 <George> But it makes the set more realistic. In the current case capacity is increased. 17:24:34 <V453000> yeah ... a prime example of realistic extremism 17:24:44 <V453000> sacrifice anything to get a bug for most people 17:26:54 *** Simozzz [~oftc-webi@host81-166-155-90.butovo.com] has joined #openttd 17:27:08 <George> Back on topic. Is there a way to fix desync error for this case? 17:27:28 <Simozzz> Hello everyone! 17:28:16 <V453000> I changed power on service some time ago, it was fixed. But I had to promise that I will never fiddle with capacity of things upon service or station visit, as such desync is unfixable with the way things work. 17:28:20 <Wolf01> meh, why is it so difficult to draw anything to a pixel matrix 17:28:24 <V453000> perhaps things are different today but I doubt it 17:28:26 <V453000> hi Simozzz 17:29:08 <Simozzz> Most strange part in that desync is the time when it occurs. 17:29:39 <Simozzz> Not in depot, when train get out, but when it reverses on rails 17:32:59 <planetmaker> Alberth, nah. I just let you build yours ;) 17:33:03 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 17:33:19 <Alberth> :) 17:33:19 <Simozzz> And another one strange thing - wagon's capacity doesn't change on first visit after these changes have to be done. I.e. not at first visit after new year. But after that, if train shoud change direction of travel - game stops with desync error. 17:33:54 <planetmaker> George, I'm actually not sure it should be allowed to change those properties on service 17:34:11 <planetmaker> Property changes should mean a refit 17:34:15 <planetmaker> IMHO 17:34:19 <Simozzz> There is a savefile, where you can recreate that error 17:35:19 <planetmaker> V453000, those things definitely did not change :) 17:35:34 <planetmaker> So, that was probably stated by frosch (he knows these things) 17:35:40 <V453000> yes it was 17:35:56 <planetmaker> And that means, George: you cannot have that feature 'change capacity on service'. You need to remove it 17:35:58 <V453000> maybe together with rubi, not sure 17:37:04 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:38:48 <planetmaker> George, and tbh, 'changing capacity on service' is not realistic either. Vacuuming a wagon or rinsing it with water and putting some oil on movable parts will not change capacity in real life either. 17:39:11 <planetmaker> It's only realistic to change capacity during a refit order - that's when vehicles are completely refurbished 17:39:32 <planetmaker> thus the realism-argument backfires in this case 17:40:11 <George> :D 17:41:12 <Simozzz> Realism that states after that one is that in early 20th century improving qualiity of rails allowed to put more cargo in same wagons without touchin them 17:41:49 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6CACD.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 17:42:38 <Simozzz> In our case, all cargoes have it's volume, so does wagons. And we limit capacity both by weight and volume. 17:43:08 <Simozzz> And early wagons have enough of free volume to carry more cargo. 17:43:54 <V453000> can capacity change upon travelling on a different rail type? 17:43:57 <V453000> if yes then you can do that 17:44:25 <Simozzz> To bad, there is not enough of railtypes aviable.. 17:44:32 <V453000> 15 is not enough? 17:44:40 <Simozzz> Increasing it will help. 17:44:42 <Simozzz> Yep. 17:44:46 <V453000> wtf :D 17:44:56 <V453000> what railtypes do you have? 15 sounds majorly confusing to any player already 17:45:08 <Simozzz> 4 speed limits + 2 types of catenary + some misc. 17:45:21 <Alberth> V: it's not about players, it's about simulating RL 17:46:24 <V453000> yeah apparently Alberth 17:46:45 <V453000> I tend to keep thinking that somebody should be using/playing the thing? :D 17:47:34 <Simozzz> They are, but most of them gave no feedback at all. 17:48:37 <V453000> honestly, OpenTTD is totally not prepared for this amount of realism you are attempting to put into it, and all of the realistic features will probably strongly backfire to anybody "just trying to play the game 17:49:11 *** George [~George@185.43.94.91] has quit [] 17:49:55 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 17:50:00 <andythenorth> o/ 17:50:06 <Alberth> hi hi 17:50:11 <Simozzz> And that's why we add parameters that allow both to play casually and in hardcore realism. No other grf allows later. 17:51:12 <Simozzz> There was canadian set which tried to be as realistic as possible, but I don't remember, is it abandoned or not. 17:51:22 <argoneus> train tracks have speed limits? 17:51:25 <argoneus> what happens if you go faster 17:51:39 <argoneus> friction spook? 17:51:42 <V453000> yeah canadian set was also ultra bad 17:52:00 <Simozzz> In case of playability - maybe. 17:52:02 <argoneus> the north american set seemed realistic 17:52:04 <argoneus> the trains barely moved 17:52:15 <argoneus> kappa 17:52:15 <V453000> you PLAY the game, playability sounds kind of important 17:52:23 <argoneus> V453000: some people enjoy simulation 17:52:48 <V453000> why do they play openttd then 17:52:48 <Simozzz> Well, if you want to know why there are speed limits - come to Russia and you'll se. It's hard to tell in words) 17:53:25 <Simozzz> Becasue they want to play openttd with realism? 17:53:36 <Simozzz> sound wierd, i know) 17:54:01 <Simozzz> But still, there are those people who like to play openttd that way. 17:54:03 <V453000> if you want realism then why not a real simulator game 17:54:57 <Simozzz> Railsim at steam costs ~80k roubles with all addons and doesn't offer any kind of Russian trains. 17:54:58 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 17:55:17 <Simozzz> Well, except M62 and BR232. 17:56:08 <argoneus> i dont really want to come to russia 17:56:22 <argoneus> someone would put plutonium in my drink 17:56:32 <argoneus> /s 17:56:53 <argoneus> Simozzz: have you tried some train simulators? 17:56:57 <argoneus> they have map editors right 17:57:06 <argoneus> openttd is fairly simple and casual 17:57:09 <Simozzz> They've done that outside, so you are nowhere safe))) 17:58:35 <V453000> why not just make the trains LOOK realistic? isn't that enough? 17:58:40 <V453000> but make it actually play nice? 17:58:51 <V453000> that sounds to me like a legit approach 17:58:54 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 17:58:56 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:58:56 <V453000> fit to openttd 17:59:05 <Simozzz> As I said, we made both casuall and hardcore versions in one 17:59:39 <V453000> how casual is the casual one? 17:59:48 <Simozzz> Not as casual as NUTS) 18:00:37 <Simozzz> But you can disable speedlimith, merge different locomotives of series in one et.c. 18:00:48 <argoneus> nuts is pretty uncasual tbh 18:01:28 <Simozzz> Tbh, NUTS is something that differs from others completly. 18:01:30 <V453000> nuts is very casual in the way of thinking "it does not make the set straight up unusable for new players" 18:01:46 <Simozzz> But it is very friendly towards online games 18:01:49 <V453000> the vehicle amount and class amount is just huge, which is what makes it seem harder 18:02:23 <V453000> oh, xussr is meant to be used only in single player or? :P 18:02:29 <V453000> then why care about desyncs :P 18:02:38 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-178.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 18:02:56 <Simozzz> In online it causes desync, which is started that discussion 18:03:44 <V453000> I know but if you orientate on having the set only for SP, then just declare it that 18:04:07 <argoneus> oh Simozzz I know 18:04:11 <argoneus> here's what you do 18:04:22 <argoneus> you make openttd 2 18:04:35 <argoneus> seems like you know a lot about trains 18:04:36 <argoneus> so should be fine 18:04:41 <argoneus> and then V453000 can port his casual nuts 18:04:45 <argoneus> and then we can all be happy 18:06:17 <Simozzz> Hm,,, how to PM here?) 18:06:36 <argoneus> /query argoneus 18:06:43 <argoneus> or /msg argoneus hi 18:06:50 <Simozzz> Thanks. 18:09:36 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db6b424.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 18:10:31 <Simozzz> Well, if I could - I'd tried to make OTTD2, but... 18:11:37 <V453000> can is an excuse, want/try is the way :P 18:12:38 <Simozzz> If you'll do my work for me - then I'll try. Otherwise I have not enough free time. 18:13:03 <Alberth> nobody has enough free time 18:13:04 <Simozzz> These barely enough to draw 1-2 locomotives for xUSSSset 18:13:19 <Simozzz> *xUSSRset 18:13:19 <Alberth> free time is something you make by not doing other things :) 18:14:10 <Simozzz> And that's why one of possible ways to get more free time - is to make V do my work for me)) 18:14:52 <V453000> V is kind of limited on time as well :P 18:15:05 <V453000> got some newgrfs coming at some point as well :) 18:15:07 <argoneus> V is a traitor 18:15:13 <argoneus> he's cheating on openttd with other trains 18:15:20 <Simozzz> lol 18:15:28 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19789.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:15:30 *** Crisco [~oftc-webi@209.194.234.171] has joined #openttd 18:16:12 <_johannes> Eddi|zuHause: yesterday, you said: "the follow track function can already distinguish station tiles" 18:16:41 <Crisco> can someone tell me the file destination for the music file? 18:16:42 <_johannes> what did you mean? Does YAPF check tiles for whether they are parts of stations? 18:17:10 <V453000> I wouldn't call it other trains but can't deny that much 18:17:20 <Alberth> Crisco: OpenTTD has a README file that explains the point at the file system for such files 18:17:24 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: the follow track function is the part that applies the penalties and knows which tiles are adjacent 18:17:26 <Simozzz> All we've get to with 6 years of work is version 0.4.1... 18:17:36 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: it will check tile type, trackbits and stuff 18:17:52 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: and is the part where e.g. the road pathfinder differs from the rail pathfinder 18:17:56 <V453000> regardless, I have to do something to live, so if you consider it, working for factorio also improves my skills I use for openttd :P everybody benefits 18:18:19 <V453000> 6 years sounds kind of insane 18:19:25 <Simozzz> That's from complete restart of set... First versions were made in ~2004-2005 18:19:45 <Simozzz> so this set is more than 10 years old 18:20:41 <V453000> I admire the stamina and motivation, but I prefer things which are done in a year, improved over another year, and done 18:21:04 <V453000> well nuts probably took 3 years in total 18:25:52 <argoneus> V453000: you underestimate russian tenacity 18:26:15 <V453000> point taken 18:26:18 <argoneus> they are REALLY good at getting things done 18:26:25 <Simozzz> It takes to much time to find all visual diferences in locomotives, that occur during it manufacturing. For example latest ES5K series have 5 different types of body, with refitable liveries... Resulting in 7 groups of 40 sprites each + 5 groups by 8 sprites for cabless boosters. Resulting in total of 320 sprites for one locomotive series.. 18:26:44 <argoneus> wow 18:27:05 <Simozzz> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/xussrset/repository/entry/src/electric/3es5k.png 18:27:13 <argoneus> V453000: actually take that back, slavs in general seem to be good at making things 18:27:20 <argoneus> poles have witcher, we have factorio, russians have tons of great games 18:27:25 <argoneus> ukrainians have stalker 18:27:30 <argoneus> slav games best game 18:27:33 <argoneus> s 18:28:02 <argoneus> Simozzz: that looks really nice 18:28:11 <Simozzz> Hm, could you name any good russian games? Because I don't know) 18:28:16 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:28:21 <Simozzz> Well, exept for tetris... 18:28:40 <argoneus> Simozzz: IL2 sturmovik is russian iirc 18:28:57 <Simozzz> Hm, yes, it is. 18:29:00 <argoneus> tetris is a classic 18:29:03 <Simozzz> Forgot that one 18:29:23 <argoneus> blitzkrieg is good 18:29:47 <V453000> are the years progress of your work, or changing graphics for the vehicle as game years go? 18:29:57 <argoneus> metro 2033 is russian too 18:30:07 <argoneus> nvm, its ukrainian 18:30:20 <Simozzz> That's ingame dates. 18:31:11 <V453000> that is a lot of sprites for a very short time period in the game. 18:31:32 <Simozzz> Yes, it is. 18:31:55 <Simozzz> But real ones have much more differences. 18:32:02 <V453000> admittedly my new train set will have absolutely outrageously insane amount of sprites per vehicle, but they will be for all time playing, and 3D rendering helps too :) 18:32:03 <Simozzz> Most of them skiped. 18:32:45 <Simozzz> To bad there is no one in our team, who could make use of 3D. 18:33:13 <V453000> honestly 18:33:29 <V453000> if you aren't interested in just learning 3D modelling and stuff, then it is not worth using it for openttd 18:33:36 <V453000> just hand drawing is much more efficient there 18:33:45 <V453000> x4 zoom is totally not mandatory 18:34:12 <V453000> and making 3D models which actually good and detailed, takes a lot of time 18:34:21 <V453000> which look * 18:34:28 <Simozzz> I know. I've tried that once... Spent more time adapting rendered sprites compared to drawing them. 18:35:01 <V453000> well you do that just once, when you figure it out, it works for all of your models 18:35:12 <V453000> but creating the content itself, is very long process 18:35:34 <V453000> currently I am 3D modelling vehicles with extreme detail, 90% of the details will never be visible in openttd 18:35:48 <V453000> just because I practice use of blender 18:36:04 <V453000> if my only goal was to create the newgrf, I wouldn't even use 3D probably 18:37:37 <Alberth> /me likes V in full 3D 18:37:55 <V453000> wat 18:38:05 <Simozzz> And that's why I keep using MS Paint whole time... I tried both PS and Gimp, and found them less comfortable to use. 18:38:26 <Alberth> V: I'd hate it if you would be 2D only 18:39:00 <Simozzz> I know that using layers cold save a lot of time, but... I'll spend more time trying to learn how to use them 18:41:12 <V453000> I have used PS without layers for pixel drawings 18:41:22 <V453000> if ms paint works, why not :) 18:41:39 <V453000> I did use some of the tools that PS has over MS paint even for pixel drawing, but rarely 18:42:40 <Simozzz> I have had to use PS before, because you can't save files as .pcx in MS paint 18:43:37 <V453000> why not just use png? xd 18:44:05 *** Crisco [~oftc-webi@209.194.234.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:44:56 <Wolf01> bitmap resolution and font size, how do they work? 18:45:50 <Simozzz> because it was not supported before) 18:46:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6B6D4.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 18:46:33 <Alberth> Wolf01: 1pt is a certain distance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_%28typography%29 resolution gives number of pixels per some distance 18:47:07 <Simozzz> In times before NML, the only format used for newgrf was ,pcx. 18:48:28 <Alberth> Wolf01: 12ptis 12/72 inch high, at 100dpi you get 100 * 12 /72 pixels 18:48:42 <Alberth> s/ptis/pt is/ 18:49:17 <Wolf01> so, I have square pixels, I know they are about 0.5mm and I need to set a right font size 18:52:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6CACD.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:52:09 <Alberth> 1/0.5mm = 2/mm = (2/2.54)inch 18:52:37 <Alberth> @calc (2/2.54)*72 18:52:37 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 56.6929133858 18:52:42 <Alberth> 56 pt ? 18:53:17 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f74613f.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 18:53:55 <Alberth> nah, doesn't look right 18:54:09 <Wolf01> mmmh, no, it doesn't 18:54:53 <Wolf01> but it's well readable at 15m 18:55:14 <Wolf01> too bad I have only 130x40 pixels :) 18:55:32 <Wolf01> no, 160x43 18:58:43 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-148-51-74.gdfw1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 19:07:39 <V453000> ah yes sorry Simozzz I didn't realize :D 19:08:37 <Wolf01> I think I'll use 72DPI with 10pt, at least it makes 4 lines of text of 10 pixels each 19:09:31 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:09:39 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 19:11:14 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:52 *** Mazur [~mazur@5ED07F22.cm-7-1b.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:12:25 <Wolf01> too bad I don't have a colour lcd screen to test the right resolution for that one 19:26:35 <frosch123> hoi 19:26:43 <argoneus> eu4 19:27:53 *** __builtin [~me@cpe-71-71-39-6.triad.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:29:35 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #openttd 19:33:58 <V453000> yo watup 19:39:07 <andythenorth> lo V453000 19:39:16 <V453000> ho 19:40:37 <andythenorth> what ho? 19:40:43 * andythenorth being English 19:41:58 <V453000> all hos 19:45:14 <V453000> modelling uranium powered rocket engine monstrous bulldozer 19:45:15 <V453000> no big deal 19:52:52 <Snail> hey Andy, nice graphics for the vehicles factory⊠19:53:04 <Snail> planning any additional graphics for the output? like cars, tractors...? 19:53:31 <andythenorth> maybe 19:53:37 <andythenorth> I might mix in cars and tractors 19:53:42 <andythenorth> currently itâs all trucks 19:53:47 <andythenorth> cars are boring though :P 19:54:56 <Snail> well :) 19:55:11 <Snail> depends on the scale youâre choosing 19:55:39 <frosch123> add a toyshop, and just scale down the cars 20:22:40 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-178.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:24:36 <andythenorth> V453000: so am I done with vehicle factory eh? 20:25:59 <V453000> idk, probably yes? :P 20:26:21 <V453000> vast progress has been made for sure 20:26:32 <V453000> I don't have any major issues with the latest one 20:28:47 <andythenorth> I think Iâll come back to it later 20:28:51 <andythenorth> sometimes sprites need a break 20:39:44 <V453000> :) 20:43:27 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 20:43:30 <drac_boy> hi 20:43:42 * andythenorth must to draw a Pyrite Smelter 20:43:44 <andythenorth> what larks 20:44:56 <frosch123> https://opentextbc.ca/geology/wp-content/uploads/sites/110/2015/08/nickel-smelter-at-Thompson.jpg <- more roofs :p 20:45:28 <frosch123> i think the conveyor belts for the ore could be a theme 20:45:32 <frosch123> instead of pipes :p 20:46:24 *** Tirili [~Unknown@2a02:8109:680:910::2] has joined #openttd 20:48:35 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 20:49:28 * drac_boy does not even see any locomotive! 20:49:39 <drac_boy> ;) 20:50:10 *** ck [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b21e:690d:342c:2cf6:5210:a2b4] has joined #openttd 20:50:30 *** ck [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b21e:690d:342c:2cf6:5210:a2b4] has quit [] 20:53:59 <andythenorth> frosch123: yeah I had that picture saved :) 20:54:35 *** ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b20f:6d5f:2a7b:e47:e28:e095] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:56:41 <andythenorth> quite boring compared to http://www.flifrance.com/sites/geosynthetics/files/styles/fli_full_page_header_image/public/cs_geo_newcaledonia.jpg?itok=HhrsFE3l 20:57:35 <drac_boy> http://freepages.family.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mhw99/Images/Image9.jpg then? 20:57:54 <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, but you already have the water pools at the copper smelter 20:57:58 <frosch123> so, this time conveyor belts? 20:58:25 <andythenorth> http://en.mercopress.com/data/cache/noticias/31535/0x0/onapuma.jpg 21:01:08 <andythenorth> I liked this one particularly http://www.sulphuric-acid.com/Sulphuric-Acid-on-the-Web/Acid%20Plants/BHP-Kalgoorlie-2.jpg 21:01:35 <andythenorth> the acid plant and the metal plant are quite distinct 21:02:10 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:09:21 <Alberth> very tropical :) 21:10:51 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19789.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:56 <drac_boy> sorry have to afk for a bit 21:10:58 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 21:11:42 *** ckraniak [~ckraniak@2600:100c:b21e:690d:342c:2cf6:5210:a2b4] has joined #openttd 21:15:03 *** roidal [~roland@193-154-143-31.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.4] 21:19:26 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 21:22:10 *** Simozzz [~oftc-webi@host81-166-155-90.butovo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:25:18 *** Tirili [~Unknown@2a02:8109:680:910::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:25:32 <_johannes> Eddi|zuHause: Were you refering to CFollowTrackT::Follow() ? 21:26:14 <_johannes> and where does this function in any way check for a station? 21:32:58 *** frosch123 [~frosch@x5f74613f.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 21:37:23 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 21:37:41 *** andythenorth [~Andy@cpc87201-aztw31-2-0-cust156.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:39:35 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: i'd look for where the penalty settings are used 21:39:47 <Eddi|zuHause> pf.yapf.rail_station_penalty or something 21:44:25 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: inline bool PfCalcCost(Node &n, const TrackFollower *tf) seems like the place 21:44:55 <_johannes> Eddi|zuHause: FollowTrack::Follow() is called in order to add more nodes to the A* algorithm? 21:45:04 <_johannes> so it's called by FindPath() ? 21:45:22 <Eddi|zuHause> _johannes: i have never looked into the specifics of the pathfinders 21:50:31 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db6b424.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:50:38 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-158-76.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 21:54:53 <_johannes> Eddi|zuHause: found it, it's in the yapf_costrail.hpp 21:59:02 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@50-37-85-136.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 22:05:29 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 22:06:37 *** oskari89 [~oskari89@83-102-63-32.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [] 22:35:41 *** _johannes [~johannes@port-92-203-177-204.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:38:52 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 23:11:10 *** Clockworker [Clockworke@177.2.176.228] has joined #openttd 23:15:49 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Snail] 23:17:23 *** Snail [~jacopocol@cpe-98-14-130-227.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:17:28 *** Clockworker_ [~Clockwork@177.201.140.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:23:28 *** APTX [~APTX@aptx.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:07 *** APTX [~APTX@aptx.org] has joined #openttd 23:32:23 *** __builtin [~me@cpe-71-71-39-6.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:34:40 *** JezK_ [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 23:38:01 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a33e:4100:5c2d:2a41:5773:8743] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:43:38 *** drac_boy [~oftc-webi@modemcable027.125-163-184.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 23:43:40 <drac_boy> hi again 23:58:45 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!]