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00:03:51 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 00:04:51 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd 00:09:12 *** NGC3982 [~milda@h215n4-vj-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:28 *** NGC3982 [~milda@h215n4-vj-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd 00:16:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6A0FA.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:21:30 *** NGC3982 [~milda@h215n4-vj-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:48 *** NGC3982 [~milda@h215n4-vj-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd 00:24:34 *** NGC3982 [~milda@h215n4-vj-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:53 *** NGC3982 [~milda@h215n4-vj-d3.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #openttd 01:06:00 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 01:16:09 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@50-37-110-37.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 01:20:31 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-100-37-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 01:22:57 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:43:30 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:56:09 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a34a:9000:50f6:bf85:cc0f:4387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:25:06 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 03:26:49 <supermop> yo Supercheese 03:27:40 <Supercheese> yo 03:36:42 <supermop> whats up out west? 03:49:08 <Supercheese> some Factorio modding, re-watching some Star Trek 03:58:13 *** supermop [~supermop@pool-100-37-203-161.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:00:33 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:22:46 *** AdmiralKew_ [~pcc31@49.147.179.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:40:08 <V453000> @seen Rubidium 05:40:14 <V453000> !seen Rubidium 05:40:19 <V453000> ._. 05:40:25 <V453000> bot lazy? 05:41:03 <DorpsGek> V453000: Rubidium was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 13 hours, 19 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Rubidium> .cfg instead of .ini? 05:41:20 <V453000> mhm 05:50:41 <V453000> well, different problem today :D it actually wrote an error https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/musa-evil4.png 05:51:12 <V453000> similar to https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/musa-evil2.png but different and at different time 07:12:41 *** Tharbakim [~Tharbakim@S0106b8a38656fe2c.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:13:25 *** Tharbakim [~Tharbakim@S0106b8a38656fe2c.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 07:14:41 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d02433f.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 07:25:18 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 07:25:25 <Wolf01> o/ 07:28:41 <Wolf01> http://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a1Mnvj8_460s_v1.jpg the math ph.d. one 08:07:02 <peter1138> text too small 08:12:04 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 08:14:31 <Wolf01> you can click on the image to zoom 08:19:06 *** TheMask96 [martijn@sloth.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:20:44 <peter1138> yes but it's been scaled down badly 08:21:05 <Wolf01> :/ 08:24:05 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 09:16:40 *** Kurimus_ [~stabbity@188.72.111.72] has joined #openttd 09:18:05 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:20:13 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 09:22:09 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:43:14 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:56:10 <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm using a 19th century building style that hurts my head but I downloaded some NewGRF's to force it 09:56:24 <Ethereal_Whisper> http://i.imgur.com/66QsBQo.png why did I do this to myself 09:58:01 <Alkel_U3> well, that is suboptimal 09:59:25 <Wolf01> uhm, too many signals in wrong safe waiting areas 10:00:46 <Ethereal_Whisper> I'm copying this scenario's building style I was playing earlier just for the hell of it 10:00:53 <Ethereal_Whisper> I started in 1890 with a super slow old train set 10:01:03 <Ethereal_Whisper> My "goal" is to get everything up and running by 1925 10:02:37 *** smoke_fumus [~smoke_fum@188.35.176.90] has joined #openttd 10:09:58 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has joined #openttd 10:10:06 <Samu> helo 10:12:44 <Samu> [13:38] <Wolf01> you could use flags instead of variables, declare an enum and then use if (GB(SLOT_EDITABLE, flags)) or "flags, SLOT_EDITABLE" (I don't remember it now) or even IF (flags & (SLOT_EDITABLE | SLOT_VALID_AI)) 10:12:57 <Samu> i'd like to do this one day 10:15:44 <Samu> i see flags would make things much easier, it's just that I rather have the code work correctly for now, before I venture further 10:17:45 <Samu> need to guide myself from the standpoint that my code works 10:42:03 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 10:52:07 *** Kurimus [~stabbity@dsl-tkubrasgw2-54f816-197.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #openttd 10:58:07 *** Kurimus_ [~stabbity@188.72.111.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:04:12 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has joined #openttd 11:20:14 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:05:51 *** TheMask96 [martijn@gluttony.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:11:04 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 12:15:50 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 12:31:57 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:07 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:43 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 12:33:54 <Wolf01> when I'll understand how asynchronous things works it will be a good day 12:34:59 <V453000> shit A doesn't do that shit B does 12:35:01 <V453000> done? :D 12:35:02 <V453000> :P 12:35:22 <Wolf01> no, I didn't mean that 12:36:39 <Wolf01> so far I understood only how to not freeze the app while there is some long work to be done 12:37:39 <Wolf01> but I need something more: get stuff from shit B "while" it's doing it 12:38:28 <Wolf01> I tried with a list, but it seem that only returns values when it has finished to fill it 12:38:45 <Wolf01> maybe it's a wrong type of list 12:39:33 <Eddi|zuHause> what's difficult to understand? do_job(); while(!is_it_done_yet()) do_other_stuff(); check_results(); 12:41:24 <Wolf01> nah, I need to check results while !is_it_done_yet() 12:41:40 <peter1138> do so then 12:41:56 <Wolf01> I'm doing that 12:41:59 <Eddi|zuHause> yield partial_results; 12:42:37 <Eddi|zuHause> (warning: terrible mix of concepts) 12:42:43 <peter1138> heh 12:43:40 <Eddi|zuHause> just make the is_it_done_yet function return the partial results 12:44:01 <Wolf01> I have a global list variable, I expect that while B is adding stuff I could look in the list to see what's there 12:44:35 <Eddi|zuHause> wait... asynchronous access to global variables? terrible idea. 12:45:36 <Eddi|zuHause> need all kinds of locks and mutexes to handle non-atomic accesses 12:46:40 <Wolf01> I know, but since I'm only reading it... the only one writing is B() 12:46:57 <Wolf01> it's like a news ticker, I don't even know when it will finish 12:47:06 <Wolf01> it might even don't finish at all 12:47:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but reading from an inconsistent state while B is writing you must also prevent 12:48:15 <Eddi|zuHause> so B must block reading, so it can write 12:48:27 <Eddi|zuHause> then allow reading when it's finished writing 12:49:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and while A is reading, B must be blocked from starting writing 12:51:12 <peter1138> well there are lock-free structures that work 12:52:50 <Wolf01> I don't think I can have an inconsistent data in the list, an item there is or there isn't, there can't be half an item 12:53:12 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on what kind of item you have 12:53:27 <Eddi|zuHause> items may be written byte-by-byte internally 12:53:46 <Eddi|zuHause> and when the number of items is updated for the list is also important 12:54:22 <Eddi|zuHause> this must all be defined in your thread model 12:55:01 <Wolf01> since I await B's job to be done, an item can't be in an inconsistent state 12:55:27 <Wolf01> the problem is why between B() and B() there is nothing in the list? 12:56:18 <Eddi|zuHause> that is totally contradicting your previous description 12:56:38 <Eddi|zuHause> (which may be part of your original problem of not understanding it) 12:57:10 <Wolf01> I expect that after the first call I have one item, but instead I get 2 items at the end 12:57:21 <Wolf01> like it's doing it synchronously 12:58:11 <Wolf01> this is simplified, I set up a task running for some seconds and adds an item every half second 12:58:38 <Wolf01> if I try to read the list I should find the items added so far... but no 12:59:11 <Wolf01> I can only get the items when all the task finish 12:59:36 <Wolf01> why does that if I'm calling B asynchronously? 13:00:04 <Eddi|zuHause> could be all sorts of reasons 13:00:14 <Wolf01> and if the tasks are infinite, when I'm supposed to retrieve the data? 13:01:03 <peter1138> definitely sounds like you're doing it wrong 13:01:03 <Wolf01> in javascript looks so easy, just set up a recursive async call 13:03:02 <Wolf01> yes, I'm aware of that, but I don't figure out what I'm doing wrong 13:03:48 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: my guess is your other job writes to some internal buffer, instead of flushing it to the global variable 13:04:26 <Wolf01> it might be 13:09:27 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:09:29 <Wolf01> uhm, it works, it seem it only was a timing problem 13:10:12 <Wolf01> waiting 5 seconds while doing 5 1-second tasks... 13:12:47 <Wolf01> clearly doing stuff with the interface and debugging stuff doesn't take the same time 13:16:36 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:23:14 *** Ketsuban [~ketsuban@2a02:c7d:a34a:9000:5f6:6f8b:7e35:7320] has joined #openttd 13:29:37 *** supermop [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 13:30:29 <supermop> yo 13:33:28 <Wolf01> o/ 13:35:06 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 13:35:09 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 13:41:58 *** tokai|noir [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:42:21 <Wolf01> tea time 13:59:31 <supermop> cookie time 14:02:55 *** Birko [~Miranda@chello085216195217.chello.sk] has joined #openttd 14:06:27 <Birko> Hi everyone. Is it any function to found out if is one railstation reachable from another by builded railways? My AI player can build big railway infrastructure and now I would like to know, what orders I can set to my trains. Thanks 14:07:43 <Wolf01> mmmh cookies, good idea supermop 14:08:17 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.169.224] has joined #openttd 14:11:29 *** Klanticus_ [~quassel@177.34.169.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:12:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Birko: generally, the pathfinder does this 14:12:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Birko: not sure if it's accessible from the AI, or if there at least exists a library mimicing it 14:17:20 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-179.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 14:17:42 <Birko> Eddi|zuHause: Good idea, library is "Pathfinder.Rail.1" and I use it for many things. So it could be works, but im afraid it is impossible to handle with it one-way (semaphore) railways... 14:18:15 <Eddi|zuHause> would be weird if it doesn't handle signals 14:18:45 <peter1138> a pathfinder should (be written to) cope with that 14:18:55 <peter1138> you'd just need to make sure that both directions are tested 14:21:38 <supermop> do AIs build networks now? 14:23:19 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-195-191.gdiv2.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd 14:24:07 <supermop> hmm idea for a GS: eminent domain GS. to entice you to service an underserved city, GS makes subsidy type announcement, then demolishes and buys 2 tile wide corridor of town buildings, then gives the owned land to player 14:24:49 <supermop> maybe builds replacement houses for displaced people 14:24:58 *** liq3 [liq3@CPE-120-147-195-191.gdiv2.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [] 14:25:30 <supermop> could also then claw back profits from that player in that town over next x years to pay for it? 14:26:58 <supermop> guessing it would be too complex for GS to build station and stump of track in a city then sell that to a player 14:28:43 <Birko> peter1138, Eddi|zuHause : I didnt know that I can handle more than find and build railway from array of tiles to another array of tiles with RailPathfinder. I study it only from this wiki https://wiki.openttd.org/AI:RailPathfinder . Where can I find more info about this RailPathfinder to handle and other things? 14:31:30 <Samu> I found another bug, related with the Parameters window not closing 14:32:04 <Samu> closing the window when selecting another script would fix many of these issues 14:33:35 <peter1138> Birko, sorry, no idea on specifics 14:34:33 <Samu> an open dropdown list remains open when i select another AI script for the same slot 14:34:50 <Samu> it lists the values of the previous script 14:36:05 <supermop> maybe this would be better as a AI that finds a town with disproportionate population:sevice level ratio, demolishes buildings, build a basic terminus in a city, or a through station based on some criteria, then intentionally bankrupts itself to get sold off? 14:45:11 <Samu> strange, it crashes on the debug, but not on the release 15:02:17 <supermop> watching videos of shinto weddings... think i may have bit off more than i can chew here 15:03:12 <supermop> even my in laws are going to be like "what the hell is going on" let alone my clueless family 15:08:44 <Samu> I don't understand. Why does it crash on the debug build, but not on the release build? 15:08:54 <Samu> I'm doing exactly the same thing 15:10:46 <Samu> weird, now it didn't crash on the debug build as well 15:10:48 <Samu> so it's random? 15:11:08 <Samu> i followed the same steps 15:13:29 <Samu> oh well, in the end it doesn't matter if it crashes randomly or not, it wasn't even supposed to linger the dropdown list from the previous AI into the new AI. 15:22:26 <Samu> aha, release also crashes after all 15:22:39 <Samu> just managed to crash 1.6.0 15:28:48 <Samu> question, should I report this bug? It's similar to the one I reported yesterday https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6453 15:29:17 <Samu> "Configure window didn't close." - this is the main problem 15:31:02 <Samu> instead of a scrollbar crashing openttd, it was a dropdown list from the previous script 15:31:18 <Samu> anyone? 15:36:35 *** TheMask96 [martijn@lust.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:40:57 *** TheMask96 [martijn@pride.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 15:42:39 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has joined #openttd 15:42:42 *** mode/#openttd [+o Alberth] by ChanServ 15:44:37 <Samu> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6453#comment14166 15:47:36 <Samu> @logs 15:47:36 <DorpsGek> Samu: http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd 15:51:10 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d02433f.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:53:31 <Samu> okay, now this image is also there https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6453/getfile/10497/Chopper%20with%20AdmiralAI.png 15:54:24 *** Sacro [~ben@000127ee.user.oftc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:35 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@49.147.189.84] has joined #openttd 16:02:51 <Wolf01> bbl 16:03:00 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 16:05:24 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-179.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:14:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6A0FA.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:31:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6DA3A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 16:32:12 <Samu> why can't I use bools inside a switch/case? 16:32:35 <Samu> i had to put them before the switch 16:32:59 <Alberth> start a new scope 16:33:20 <Alberth> case ... : { bool b = ... ; .... ; break; } 16:33:33 <Alberth> b only exists between { and } 16:37:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6A0FA.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:38:07 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 16:39:54 <Samu> visual studio does not like that: initialization of 'is_orange_slot_above' is skipped by 'case' label openttd D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\ai\ai_gui.cpp 884 16:40:56 <Alberth> yes, you need curly brackets around variables in cases (also with normal labels, but you hardly use them) 16:41:33 <Alberth> or you must define them above the switch, so they exist for all switches, and beyond the switch statement 16:41:50 <Alberth> *exist for all cases, I means 16:41:54 <Alberth> *mean 16:41:56 <Samu> they have to exist for 2 cases only 16:42:07 <Samu> the other cases are arguing 16:42:28 <Samu> let me copy paste 16:42:32 <Alberth> it's either 1, with curly braces, or all, above the switch 16:43:26 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pbq4jucs7, have to exist for WID_AIC_MOVE_UP and WID_AIC_MOVE_DOWN 16:43:37 <Samu> the other cases don't matter 16:45:13 <Samu> so, all? like I had before 16:45:20 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 16:45:24 <Samu> it will look ugly though 16:45:35 <Alberth> just the declaration is enough 16:46:03 <Alberth> bool is_orange_slot, is_red_slot, ... ; 16:46:28 <Alberth> make sure you give them a value before you use the value though, or you get garbage 16:46:46 <Alberth> perhaps your compiler will compain about not being initialized 16:47:17 <Alberth> you can either give them the real value then (but ugly, perhaps), or a dummy value, like "true" or "false" or so 16:47:38 <Alberth> *complain 16:52:36 *** glx [~glx@000128ec.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 16:52:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 16:55:55 <_dp_> I'd rather do a function, smth like is_red_or_orange(slot), vastly simplifies everything 17:00:03 *** MonkeyDAcez [~MonkDAce@80.88.255.44] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02:19 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db6a77b.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 17:22:47 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-179.cbu.edu] has joined #openttd 17:31:18 <Samu> ew... that invisible human player in slot 1 is annoying 17:32:04 <Samu> in the main menu, slot 1 is a human player that I want to disguise as not being there 17:34:05 <Samu> hmm i think i know how 17:34:08 <Samu> brb 17:40:05 <Samu> problem doesn't occur in scenario editor 17:41:18 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #openttd 17:47:46 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has joined #openttd 17:50:59 <Samu> IsValidID vs IsValidAiID 17:52:05 <Samu> IsValidID says it's true, there really is a company there in slot 1 17:52:17 <Samu> in main menu 17:52:56 <Samu> IsValidAiID says it's false, this fixed my issue 17:55:47 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@dns25-179.cbu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:57:48 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19E4E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:00:31 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #openttd 18:07:13 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:07:36 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 18:08:06 <Alberth> hola 18:09:41 *** Wolf01 [~Wolf01@host249-115-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 18:09:53 <Wolf01> o/ 18:10:21 <Alberth> o/ 18:30:19 <Samu> Alberth: how would you fix that bug I reported? 18:31:56 <Samu> im trying to find a way to fix it 18:32:54 <Samu> AI/GS Debug vs AI/GS Config act differently when switching from a slot to another 18:33:13 <Samu> maybe they should behave equal 18:34:43 <Samu> Debug seems less prone to these issues 18:34:59 <Samu> but it's also a bit more restrictive 18:35:23 <frosch123> moin 18:36:45 <Wolf01> frosch, do you use at least the circuit network on factorio? 18:38:08 <frosch123> sometimes 18:38:19 <frosch123> but i always think i am doing something wrong if i need it 18:39:36 <Wolf01> I was trying to make a hysteresis circuit to enable the inserters only below a threshold 18:39:53 <V453000> frosch123: who could possibly help me with musa? :( 18:39:57 <V453000> also, hi :) 18:40:18 <Wolf01> I did it with 2 comparators and one combinator, too big :/ 18:40:20 <frosch123> Wolf01: i think it is because i play f like ottd 18:40:34 <frosch123> when i have too little stuff, i need to build more rails 18:40:41 <frosch123> not add balancing stuff 18:41:25 <Wolf01> that could be an option, a good one, if you have enough steel :P 18:42:26 <Wolf01> actually I have 6 electric furnaces for steel, I'm planning to double them when I'll move the entire advanced production stuff out of the main base 18:42:34 <frosch123> V453000: at least i can confirm that the problem is not on your end 18:42:42 <frosch123> i can also not upload a new version of sv 18:42:51 <frosch123> TrueBrain: can you please restart musad, it's definitely borked 18:42:54 <V453000> that I understand, but who can I poke? 18:42:59 <V453000> :) 18:43:15 <frosch123> V453000: well, there was also the option that it is only borked for your large files 18:43:30 <frosch123> or that only yeti is borked 18:44:44 <V453000> point :) 18:45:40 <Samu> AI/GS Configuration does this: InvalidateWindowClassesData(WC_AI_SETTINGS); 18:45:48 <Samu> AI/GS Debug does this: DeleteWindowByClass(WC_AI_SETTINGS); 18:46:19 <Samu> debug window does not bug out 18:46:25 <Samu> so im gonna copy 18:46:26 <V453000> I got this error today https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20419525/musa-evil4.png 18:47:18 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwi7oodo8 <- i got that one :p 18:47:52 *** Supercheese is now known as Guest1933 18:47:56 <V453000> lol a different one 18:47:57 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@50-37-110-37.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has joined #openttd 18:48:12 <frosch123> no, both just say "timeout" 18:48:21 <frosch123> i guess the cia serves are overloaded 18:48:25 <V453000> but Errno is different? 18:48:25 <frosch123> and cannot respond in time 18:48:30 <V453000> k :) 18:49:00 <Wolf01> frosch, do you think that a base which only processes iron and copper and outputs every kind of item possible for those 2 ores (steel, inserters, green circuits, gears...) is a good solution or it should only produce steel, gears, and circuits, and leave the next tier to another outpost? 18:49:08 <Alberth> Samu examining it carefully, finding the point where it's wrong, and fix it? 18:50:09 <frosch123> Wolf01: in my previous game i started to include the furnaces into the mining outposts 18:50:17 <frosch123> and ship the refined metal by train, instead of the ore 18:50:39 <frosch123> i may also shift it to steel 18:50:40 <TrueBrain> frosch123: done 18:51:09 <Wolf01> I prefer to have a central smelting hub, mining outpost are like... not infinite 18:51:17 <frosch123> TrueBrain: works :) 18:51:22 <frosch123> V453000: now you can try 18:51:33 <Supercheese> you'd have to tear up your smelters along with the miners when the ore is depleted... 18:51:45 <Supercheese> best to have central smelting to avoid that IMO 18:51:46 <V453000> trying immediately 18:52:09 <V453000> uploading \o/ 18:52:13 <V453000> let's hope it finishes 18:52:20 <Eddi|zuHause> but you can put down the smelters at the new mining site, i suppose? 18:52:21 <Wolf01> actually I have a large 40 electric furnaces hub just for iron, and 20 for copper 18:52:48 <V453000> regarding F: I love using steel furnaces on the mining field to make it output the final thing 18:52:53 <V453000> I build shit by blueprints anyway 18:53:22 <Wolf01> I use blueprints too, they are so useful :) 18:53:24 <V453000> you can fit the steel furnaces within the "extra range" of the miners to maintain 100% coverage 18:53:44 <Supercheese> steel smelters? Then you'd have to ship coal to every outpost... 18:54:15 <Wolf01> that's why I use full electric everywhere 18:54:19 <V453000> yeah Supercheese 18:54:22 <V453000> fun :) 18:54:29 <Supercheese> eh, to each their own 18:54:30 <V453000> I ship laser turrets etc anyway 18:54:44 <V453000> rest of the train can be coal 18:55:15 <Samu> my idea of a fix was .... "just close the parameters window", it's kinda like what debug also do 18:55:24 <Wolf01> I don't use anymore coal as fuel 18:56:05 <Samu> my other idea was .... more difficult for me to fix 18:56:17 <frosch123> https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/f_playersupply.png <- Wolf01: usually i have some basic "all you need" production and the rest somewhere abroad 18:56:38 <Wolf01> my car runs on wood (just to use up that large stockpile I made clearing an entire forest) the rest uses solid fuel 18:56:45 <frosch123> oh, btw. i have no idea since when removed asembling plants leave that rubble on the floor :p 18:56:48 <Samu> which was keeping it open and re-supply it with the new variables 18:57:05 <V453000> omg just one facility to produce robots? :P 18:57:06 <frosch123> Wolf01: yes, i used wood for trains, but this time i got a pretty wood-free map 18:57:16 <frosch123> V453000: i hate robots 18:57:23 <frosch123> i only use logistics for player supply 18:57:25 <V453000> construction robots are nice 18:57:27 <V453000> yes me too 18:57:37 <frosch123> and i do not need more construction than i can wire up with belts 18:57:58 <frosch123> it's not like they are one-time use 18:58:01 <V453000> g 18:58:33 <Wolf01> how can you keep that production with just 3 green circuits factories? 18:58:47 <Wolf01> I have 16 of them and 6 for red ones 18:58:53 <V453000> uploaded :D 18:58:59 <frosch123> Wolf01: why "keep"? 18:58:59 <V453000> it says I am Sylf but idk where that came from 18:58:59 <Wolf01> \o/ 18:59:03 <V453000> still, it's on bananas 18:59:07 <frosch123> all that stuff there is only for player supply 18:59:13 <frosch123> and construction robots 18:59:17 <frosch123> so, there is not much needed 18:59:34 <frosch123> the green circuits are only leftovers from the redcircuit production 18:59:46 <frosch123> the mass production is somewhere else 19:00:19 <Wolf01> mmh ok then, I have the research labs too, which are green/red/blue circuits hungry 19:00:21 <frosch123> Wolf01: oh, also, all chests you see have their size limited 19:00:53 <frosch123> i do not need 500 miners :p 19:01:02 <V453000> TrueBrain: thanks <3 19:02:29 <Wolf01> also, one thing I really hate, the raw stone patches are too small, I need to move too often to another place 19:03:13 <frosch123> Supercheese: yes, i ship coal to outposts 19:03:40 <frosch123> i always build mixed cargo trains with run on a circular line visiting many stops 19:03:47 <frosch123> some load coal, some unload coal 19:03:50 <V453000> yeah that stuff should be fixed in .13 19:04:20 <frosch123> also, rv almost take no damage anymore when bulldozing rocks 19:04:49 <frosch123> now you only have the small battle between the rock and the constructon robot 19:04:58 <Wolf01> rails, bricks, concrete, they use up a lot of stone and I feel like conquering the far west, laying one rail track like a snail :P 19:05:00 <frosch123> which cannot quite decide when it is done with repairing 19:05:23 <frosch123> Supercheese: and yes, electric smelters are as stupid as logistics robots 19:05:43 <Supercheese> unless you have massive solar, they are less efficient than steel smelters 19:05:49 <Supercheese> that much is true 19:06:12 <Wolf01> half of my map is covered with solar panels 19:06:27 <Supercheese> Well, then you can use electric smelters if you like ;) 19:06:35 <Wolf01> the other half is for batteries :P 19:07:03 <frosch123> Supercheese: last time i checked they were equivalent in power consumption 19:07:18 <Supercheese> frosch123: they are, but if you use steam engines boilers only have 50% efficiency 19:07:20 <frosch123> which i considered sad :) 19:07:37 <Wolf01> I still have the old steam engines power plants for backup purpose 19:07:51 <frosch123> hmm, is that written somewhere? maybe i missed that in my computation 19:08:16 <Supercheese> Coal -> elec -> elec smelter requires 2x as much coal as just Coal -> Steel smelter 19:08:16 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:08:18 <frosch123> my main production always runs on steam 19:08:26 <frosch123> i only use solar panels in the offposts 19:08:42 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@25.103.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #openttd 19:08:44 <frosch123> because solar panels are still nicer than long-distance electric wires 19:08:45 *** Myhorta[1] [~Myhorta@25.103.114.89.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:30 <Wolf01> heh, you must consider the used space, a steam engine uses what, 3x5? and produces 350KW, while a solar panel is 3x3 and produces 60KW 19:09:49 <frosch123> space is not a concern in my games 19:10:01 <frosch123> as said, i play it like ottd :p 19:10:19 <Wolf01> but in ottd you don't have infinite maps :P 19:10:41 <frosch123> anything bigger than 512x512 is infinite 19:10:46 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe we should add that? :P 19:10:48 <Wolf01> here you just obliterate a spitters colony and lay down a 2400 solar panels farm 19:10:59 <Supercheese> You don't have infinite maps, just zomghueg maps 19:15:25 <Wolf01> V, do you know if it will be possible to make again mods for conveyor belts, like the separators which were really useful in 0.11? 19:15:33 <TrueBrain> V453000: have you tried turning it off and on again 19:15:36 <TrueBrain> it always works, I guess :D 19:15:57 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 19:16:09 <Eddi|zuHause> how dp infinite maps in factorio work? does it unload chunks that it thinks are inactive? 19:16:15 <V453000> :) 19:16:52 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it probably relies on noone putting a weight on the "a" key and go on vacation 19:17:09 <Supercheese> Factorio has active and inactive chunks 19:17:22 <Supercheese> you can even see them using the debug menu (F4) 19:19:37 <Wolf01> at least is not like Minecraft, one thing I hate about that is the inactive chunks don't grow things (trees, crops)... imagine it on factorio :P 19:20:29 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:58 <Eddi|zuHause> well, that depends on how you determine which chunks should be active 19:22:39 *** Birko [~Miranda@chello085216195217.chello.sk] has quit [Quit: Miranda NG! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-ng.org/] 19:23:49 <Wolf01> another thing I don't understand is how the aliens expand 19:24:03 <Eddi|zuHause> somehow i just got the music from "peter and the wolf" as earworm... 19:24:27 <Wolf01> or better, the natives, since the player is the alien 19:24:29 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: who of them? 19:24:34 <frosch123> peter or wolf? 19:24:34 <Eddi|zuHause> something i haven't listened to in like 20 years 19:24:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's peter 19:25:07 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember how the wolf goes 19:25:21 <frosch123> oboe 19:25:28 <frosch123> or something like that 19:25:36 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean fagott? 19:25:39 <frosch123> hmm, no, it's some metal horn 19:25:54 <Eddi|zuHause> oboe is very high pitched 19:25:59 <frosch123> but, it's a slow alarm bell essentially 19:26:19 <Samu> what's the difference between InvalidateData() and InvalidateData(-1) 19:26:19 <Eddi|zuHause> like a clarinet 19:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> so, after listening to the intro, it seems: bird-flute, duck-oboe, cat-clarinet, grandpa-fagott, wolf-horn, peter-violin 19:34:10 *** Gja [~Martin@93-167-84-102-static.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 19:35:10 <frosch123> eddi-tuba 19:36:29 *** Myhorta [~Myhorta@00018fad.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:53 <Eddi|zuHause> somehow i doubt prokofjew knew of my existence :p 19:43:53 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@50-37-110-37.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has left #openttd [] 19:46:41 *** sim-al2 [~sim-al2@108-221-157-231.lightspeed.mmphtn.sbcglobal.net] has joined #openttd 19:51:38 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~farci@i59F6DA3A.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:14 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:27 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd 19:52:49 *** tokai [~tokai@00012860.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 19:52:52 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 19:53:41 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~farci@i59F6DA3A.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:55:03 *** Hiddenfunstuff [~Geth@y32.ip1.anvianet.fi] has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 19:56:50 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@95.85.3.239] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:05 *** kais58_ [~kais58@88.98.85.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:21 *** ABCRic [~ABCRic@95.85.3.239] has joined #openttd 19:57:28 *** Quatroking [~Quatrokin@ip226-139-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:58:11 *** AdmiralKew [~pcc31@49.147.189.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:58:54 *** urdh [~urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:09 *** luaduck [~luaduck@0001c465.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:00:09 *** luaduck_ [~luaduck@cream.duck.me.uk] has joined #openttd 20:00:38 *** luaduck_ is now known as luaduck 20:03:12 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.169.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:03:30 *** Klanticus [~quassel@177.34.169.224] has joined #openttd 20:03:54 <V453000> hm, so a 32bpp train set having 70 000 wagon sprites isn't a good idea you say? 20:05:11 *** Arveen [~Arveen@ip-95-223-75-47.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 20:08:52 <sim-al2> Might kill some older computers V :p 20:09:15 *** urdh [~urdh@00013d7a.user.oftc.net] has joined #openttd 20:10:11 <V453000> to be precise I am getting 62720 20:10:21 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:10:35 <V453000> assuming 15kb per sprite, that comes up as 940 800 kb 20:10:42 <V453000> which is roughly 1GB 20:10:44 <V453000> :/ 20:10:59 <V453000> I might have a solution to reduce it 8 times 20:11:45 <frosch123> only spherical cars? :p 20:12:06 <V453000> no, something else 20:12:19 <V453000> basically articulating some of the necessary variety 20:18:41 <frosch123> anyway, how much mb do you need in a real game? 20:18:52 <frosch123> like you do not have all cargos in one game, only 32 20:19:08 <frosch123> you may also not have all vehicles in all generations at a time 20:19:55 <frosch123> @calc 128*40*4 20:19:56 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 20480 20:20:34 <Wolf01> our nephews will ask "but the pc can run ottd?" 20:22:29 <V453000> frosch123: ? 20:22:42 <V453000> there is 67 cargoes I could count from various sets 20:22:48 <frosch123> V453000: ottd only loads sprites into memory which are actually used 20:22:48 <V453000> ofc not available all at the same time, but still? 20:22:53 <V453000> right 20:22:58 <V453000> still you have to download 1GB 20:23:17 <frosch123> isn't the compression better than that? 20:23:39 <V453000> fair point actually 20:24:54 <V453000> hm 20:25:03 <V453000> well it might help a lot 20:25:29 <V453000> oh nvm my test grf has only 2 engines out of many 20:25:50 <V453000> I was wondering that 8MB->312KB is a big difference XD 20:26:15 *** kais58_ [~kais58@88.98.85.222] has joined #openttd 20:27:27 <V453000> is there any way to estimate the compression amount? 20:28:14 <frosch123> do one test vehicle? 20:28:45 <V453000> 16 sprites are 312KB at the moment 20:28:55 <V453000> each individual PNG has 15KB 20:29:02 <frosch123> as a grf? 20:29:14 <V453000> 312=grf 20:29:30 <V453000> 15KB = 1 PNG before spritesheeting and stuff 20:30:03 <frosch123> 312kb seems to be a lot for 16 vehicle sprites 20:30:11 <frosch123> they are about 20kb uncompressed 20:30:21 <frosch123> so, it would mean basically no compression :p 20:30:25 <V453000> well I guess grf code is something? 20:30:41 <frosch123> problem with grf is that it compressed every sprite on its own 20:30:53 <V453000> right 20:30:54 <frosch123> compressing big things is better than many small things 20:31:04 <V453000> yeah of course 20:32:04 <Samu> time to post a new version, before I forget what I have done thus far 20:32:23 <V453000> I will try to get the articulation to work first 20:32:26 <V453000> let's see how that goes 20:32:31 <V453000> [probably poorly] 20:36:16 <V453000> actually 20:36:18 <V453000> it won't work at all 20:36:21 <V453000> ._. 20:36:30 <V453000> need to do some serious reconsiderations 20:36:53 <V453000> even if it saves 50% (which it won't), it's deep shit 20:37:47 <frosch123> how big is the grf, if you zip it? 20:38:00 <V453000> the 312kb one? 20:38:03 <frosch123> yes 20:38:17 <V453000> 278 20:38:39 <frosch123> then you sprites have a lot of randomness :p 20:39:14 <V453000> mhm :) 20:39:28 <frosch123> so, if zipping the whole thing does only save 10$, there is no point in improving the grf format or similar 20:39:33 <frosch123> *% 20:39:40 <V453000> I see your point 20:40:16 <V453000> well, I have wagons which have very specific functionality. I want to show that functionality in sprites, which means the x8 as there are 8 types of such functionalities 20:40:27 <frosch123> would you save sprites if ottd could draw multiple sprites per vehicle? 20:40:31 <V453000> my idea is to use articulated vehicles where 1 half is the functionality and 1 half is the actual wagon 20:40:35 <V453000> yes 20:40:43 <V453000> 8 times :) 20:40:52 <V453000> maybe even more due to cargoes 20:41:09 <frosch123> if it's not factor 50, it's not worth the effort :p 20:41:24 <V453000> well from 1GB to 120MB is a lot 20:41:48 <frosch123> 2 sprites per vehicle? or more? 20:42:06 <V453000> 2 would help insanely much 20:42:07 <frosch123> or vehicle + animation + cargo ? 20:42:11 <V453000> more would be just bonus 20:42:22 *** Long_yanG [~long@15255.s.time4vps.eu] has joined #openttd 20:43:18 <V453000> vehicle partA, vehicle partB, cargo in various loading stages, cargo in various graphics 20:44:26 <V453000> in general it would be AMAZING if wagons could consist of wagon + cargo 20:44:36 <V453000> would motivate so much to define more cargoes 20:44:50 <V453000> and any filesize save for 32bpp is heaven gift 20:45:02 <frosch123> also proper company colours :p 20:45:11 <frosch123> but cc are bad anyway 20:45:19 <frosch123> oh, and better rainbow slugs 20:45:32 <V453000> well yeah that would be an extra beautiful thing, but layered sprites would be just a whole new dimension 20:47:25 <V453000> is such a thing as vehicle layers within realm of possibility? 20:47:42 <V453000> I guess it worked for industries and stations eh :P 20:47:44 <frosch123> hardest is the drag-cursor :p 20:47:57 <frosch123> i.e. the one which does not even support articulated vehicles 20:47:58 <V453000> ha 20:48:02 <V453000> I see 20:48:11 <frosch123> currently you can only attach a single sprite to the mouse cursor 20:48:12 <V453000> can we define drag sprites? 20:48:21 *** LongyanG [~long@15255.s.time4vps.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:48:26 <V453000> we can define depot sprites 20:48:28 <V453000> I guess that works 20:48:30 <frosch123> nah, it should just draw the vehicle list sprite in aritculated 20:49:05 <V453000> list sprite = purchase menu sprite you mean? no 20:49:36 *** Alberth [~alberth@2001:981:c6c5:1:be5f:f4ff:feac:e11] has left #openttd [] 20:49:42 <frosch123> no, i mean like the vehicle is displayed in the depot and or in vehicle lists 20:49:52 <frosch123> i.e. multiple sprites 20:50:20 <V453000> yes, so if you have a switch vehicle_is_in_depot, you can define drag-sprites basically? 20:51:05 <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Sprites_in_GUI <- do you mean that? or something else 20:51:15 <frosch123> i do not want to hack around the mouse cursor thing 20:51:21 <frosch123> it should be done properly anyway 20:51:50 <V453000> switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, switch_monolocal_depotted, vehicle_is_in_depot){ 1 : switch_monolocal_stopped; //TL0.5 doesnt exist 0 : switch_monolocal_enginesprite; } 20:51:55 <V453000> I am not saying hack 20:52:03 <V453000> I am saying that it is solvable if someone defines a newgrf 20:52:11 <V453000> and wants to fix the dragging 20:52:25 <V453000> admittedly automatically dragging merged sprite would obviously be best :P but yeah 20:56:47 <V453000> I will have to go now, but let me just say tha this feature would be the most amazing thing I ever seen :P 20:57:27 <frosch123> it's likely easier than the mapgen preview 20:57:34 <frosch123> which is the other most-needed thing 20:57:44 <V453000> :0 20:58:43 <frosch123> but i need to ponder some days about the nfo magic 20:58:54 <V453000> :) 20:59:28 <V453000> I would greatly appreciate such a thing to happen 21:01:03 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: just check extra_callback_info1, not vehicle_is_in_depot 21:03:41 <Eddi|zuHause> 0x0? for anything drawn on the map, 0x1? for anything drawn in the gui, and 0x2? for anything drawn as preview (no vehicle vars available) 21:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> (i use this quite a lot with all the curve magic, which should only be done on the map) 21:06:05 <Eddi|zuHause> (so special magic for depot dragging was quite easy to add) 21:06:18 <frosch123> really? is that variable older than cets? 21:06:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure i wrote that 21:06:47 <frosch123> sometimes i forget how ancient some thing are :)= 21:08:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it's only been like 5(?) years :p 21:08:30 <Eddi|zuHause> nothing happened in the last 2 years anyway :p 21:08:41 <V453000> gnight 21:08:44 <V453000> layers! <3 21:09:39 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 21:10:13 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:10:27 *** FLHerne [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [] 21:10:57 *** gelignite [~gelignite@x4db6a77b.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: http://bit.ly/1kso8Ta] 21:11:47 *** Guest1954 [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:11:58 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d02433f.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #openttd 21:15:39 <_dp_> hm, just got a weird idea 21:16:01 <_dp_> make a server with real world map and only allow people to build in same region they are from (by ip) 21:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so i have a "19. Jul 2011 vehicle_gui_extra_callback_info.diff" but r23080 doesn't seem to be based on that patch 21:17:52 <Eddi|zuHause> @commit 23080 21:17:53 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by frosch :: r23080 /trunk/src (25 files in 2 dirs) (2011-11-01 17:51:47 +0100 ) 21:17:54 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Feature: [NewGRF] Use variable 10 to enable vehicle GRFs to draw different sprites on the map and in various GUIs. 21:18:59 <Eddi|zuHause> you also didn't credit me for the idea :p 21:19:06 <frosch123> _dp_: well, most people live where lots of people are living 21:19:18 <frosch123> tracks better fit in places where noone is living 21:19:52 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i don't believe in "ideas" :) 21:20:17 <Eddi|zuHause> like 90% of the worlds population live on the coast or near rivers 21:20:19 <frosch123> except for the roujin foundations 21:22:32 <_dp_> frosch123, well, regions can be quite big, more like continents or so. 21:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: there is no such thing as a "continent" in openttd 21:23:25 <frosch123> _dp_: maybe try "timezones" then :p 21:23:38 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, doesn't mean it can't be defined ;) 21:23:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so, if it's not a rectangle, you're having a hard time 21:24:20 <_dp_> pff, hardest thing is to actually prevent someone from building somewhere 21:24:22 <Eddi|zuHause> also, how do you decide where a person is "living"? 21:24:29 <Eddi|zuHause> geoip? how about proxies? 21:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and how about multiple people in the same company? 21:25:25 <supermop> V453000: what madness is this you are planning 21:25:32 <Eddi|zuHause> preventing building is trivial, so long as you're able to patch the executable 21:25:56 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, well, idea is to get people from different regions in one company)) 21:25:58 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: since when is anything V453000 is planning NOT madness? 21:26:08 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, you're taking this too serious though :p 21:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: there's also GS magic to undo things a player did in the wrong place 21:27:01 <Eddi|zuHause> may be less pretty 21:27:28 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, seen that magic, quite easy to fool :p 21:27:35 <supermop> composited sprites sounds particularly interesting madness 21:28:46 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, filtering incoming commands on server is still the most viable way 21:30:33 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: piping all incoming commands through the GS for validation is too problematic? or too inefficent? 21:31:22 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, why bother with gs for that? 21:31:32 <Eddi|zuHause> more flexibility? 21:31:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that could be included in the main game, instead of being some server-specific hack 21:33:04 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: competitive servers will always find something that does not fit the main game 21:33:05 <_dp_> filtering is a hack no matter how you do it :p 21:34:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i missed some context for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptfmAY6M6aA some incompetent(?) politician(?) made some stupid(?) statement(?) about the eu referendum(?) 21:36:52 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: did gb ever accept the european court? 21:37:16 <frosch123> i only remember them complaining that brittish cannot be wrong 21:37:33 <frosch123> you now, like us soldiers are incapable of comitting war crimes 21:38:10 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there are multiple european courts. and generally the US have a problem with outside jurisdiction 21:40:48 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i believe i've heard of some british court cases going to european level, like the assange thing, and various stuff about the snwoden reveals about GCHQ 21:43:38 *** Wormnest [~Wormnest@s5596abd2.adsl.online.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:22 *** JacobD88 [~Thunderbi@cpc80661-stap13-2-0-cust817.12-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: JacobD88] 21:47:35 *** Guest1954 [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: There's a real world out here!] 21:47:44 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 21:47:44 *** aard [~aard@108.134.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:59 *** FLHerne_ [~flh@dsl-217-155-24-22.zen.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:51:12 *** sla_ro|master [slamaster@89.136.141.100] has quit [] 21:54:50 <Samu> new version posted http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=74694&p=1167722#p1167722 21:55:10 <Samu> main topic needs some editing yet 21:56:00 <supermop> frosch123: any US soldier with a strong case against them who found himself abroad could well be arrested and tried, but seems the types who find them selves on the wrong side of international law are the types to stay out of countries that might do anything about it 21:57:05 <_dp_> first thing that needs flexibility is network command system imo 21:57:16 <_dp_> no point having "flexible" gs when it can't do shit 21:58:13 <supermop> the few people I knew from High school who fought in Iraq or Afghanistan, that was the only time they had ever visited a country that wasn't on very friendly terms with the US (such as GB) 21:59:02 <frosch123> haha, yesterday the news here was full of "us no longer wants to be bff with gb, if they leave eu" :) 22:00:10 <supermop> not that I am suggesting those particular guys committed any war crimes, just that most soldiers who would find themselves in ambiguous combat situations are not the type who book vacations to North Korea for fun 22:07:01 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: what kind of command system are you thinking of? 22:10:33 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, system itself is fine (command.cpp I mean), just needs more flexibility 22:11:19 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, right now command set is such that it basically supports only bare minimum of what is required by gameplay and nothing else 22:12:10 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, so even slightly changing to gameplay is virtually impossible 22:12:39 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: that stil leaves me with absolutely no clue what kind of change you're thinking about 22:14:05 *** kais58_ is now known as kais58|AFK 22:15:05 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, hah, well, from usage standpoint it's basically allowing gs to do more stuff)) 22:15:20 *** kais58|AFK is now known as kais58_ 22:15:38 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: but the command system is designed for the user doing stuff 22:15:58 <_dp_> for example clearing land (as deity), placing objects/buildings etc... 22:16:16 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, yy, that's why server can't do anything 22:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: well, if you have a specific thing in mind, open a request. doesn't need a change to the "system" at all. 22:17:03 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: read the existing requests :p 22:17:14 <_dp_> system itself is fine, it just lacks functionality 22:17:39 <_dp_> also does it make sense to make patches just for commands, without gs interface? 22:18:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think a command will be accepted if there is no way to invoke it 22:18:07 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: it all comes down to ottd running the gamestate on every client 22:18:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A19E4E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:31 <frosch123> clients do not believe the server anything, but check what it sends them 22:18:57 <frosch123> so you cannot add new stuff in the server without preparing the clients for it 22:19:42 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: so add a flag to server commands "this is a server command, execute it also if the client did not send it"? 22:19:55 <frosch123> like: you cannot allow a company to execute a command without sufficient funds 22:20:23 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you can answer every simple example with a simple answer 22:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause> hehe :) 22:20:38 <frosch123> also you are assuming anyone except dp is interested in competive gaming 22:21:32 <_dp_> frosch123, well, there is also btpro and n-ice ;) 22:21:37 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno... the luukland stuff was fairly popular, i suppse 22:21:55 <frosch123> see, that's why i encourage forking ottd :) 22:22:07 <frosch123> you cannot fit all thoe completely different things into one game 22:22:31 <_dp_> forking is kind of splitting community 22:22:39 <frosch123> _dp_: and all three are neglible compared to the chinese, right?' :p 22:23:31 <_dp_> chinese are weird xD 22:23:52 <_dp_> actually, if you look on average stats they aren't that noticable 22:24:21 <supermop> do all new players to the game use zbase? 22:24:32 <Eddi|zuHause> unlikely 22:24:36 <_dp_> like yeah, they play 150 at once but only once a week for 3 hours 22:25:16 <supermop> seems like whenever a new person appears in the fora asking about signalling etc, they have zbase 22:25:59 <Eddi|zuHause> you're having a sample bias there... 22:26:02 <supermop> and when they ask for grf suggestions, they then complain that the 8bpp grfs they have downloaded look bizarre to them 22:26:05 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: of course 22:26:59 <supermop> but i wonder if we are biased is hanging around the fora and this channel for 8+ years, we have no idea what the experience of someone just starting to play this game this year would be? 22:31:11 <supermop> and every time i play online, (which is maybe twice a year) i never find many servers using significant newgrf rosters - maybe a old wagons new cargoes at most 22:32:12 <supermop> are typical players unaware or even ambivalent towards new grfs, so server hosts set games accordingly? 22:34:47 <_dp_> well, I never add grfs to servers that target new players 22:34:56 <supermop> do these players just want different 32bpp base sets? do they just want simple 32bpp new grfs? how many people out there play the game at least casually but are never active on the forum? 22:36:08 <frosch123> how many people who download the game start it even once? :p 22:37:32 <_dp_> how many people can solve a riddle to connect to muliplayer? :p 22:38:24 <frosch123> night 22:38:26 *** frosch123 [~frosch@00013ce7.user.oftc.net] has quit [Quit: be yourself, except: if you have the opportunity to be a unicorn, then be a unicorn] 22:38:36 <supermop> what always bothered me was how much of a hassle it was for say my brother and i to just play a casual pick up game against each other if it turned out we both had a few free hours 22:39:30 <supermop> we never really figured out how to host a server, 22:39:56 <supermop> and depending on where he or I might be, we might not even be able to 22:42:01 <_dp_> hosting a server is pretty much same for every game so I won't blame openttd for that 22:42:25 <supermop> also the few people i converse with at any frequency about this game do not seem to be regularly playing multiplayer games as far as I can tell, so when ever I do play 22:42:40 <supermop> its on some ramdon empty server 22:42:44 <supermop> brb 22:42:45 *** supermop [~supermop@static-71-249-209-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:44 *** Biolunar [Biolunar@x4d02433f.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:05:14 *** Wolf01 [~Wolf01@0001288e.user.oftc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:09:27 <Samu> http://imgur.com/lGvvQOK 23:10:01 <Samu> :) 23:17:21 <Samu> I'm kind of happy for today 23:18:32 <Samu> managed to verify nearly every step of my bools to make sure they were working as they're intended to 23:19:46 <Samu> tomorrow I'll think about flags or bitmasks or whatever 23:20:41 <Samu> the table is ready http://imgur.com/lGvvQOK 23:20:53 <Samu> i don't think i'm missing anything now 23:29:17 *** Guest1933 [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Valete omnes] 23:49:11 *** Samu [~oftc-webi@po-217-129-255-23.netvisao.pt] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:49:36 *** Supercheese [~Superchee@cpe-76-178-136-186.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 23:58:41 *** JezK [~jez@2407:7800:400:107f:3db5:daca:8457:e66a] has joined #openttd