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00:36:37 <Samu> testing this ... formula: return minu(dx, dy) * 2 * (2 / 3) + dx + dy - minu(dx, dy) * 2; 00:40:11 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 00:40:40 <Samu> holy crap that one is even worse omg i really fail at this 00:47:32 *** Flygon has quit IRC 00:56:05 <Samu> here i go, trying another: return ((minu(dx, dy) * 2 * 2) / 3) + Delta(2 * minu(dx, dy), max(dx, dy)); 01:01:45 <Samu> bad formula 01:19:10 <Samu> testing return ((minu(dx, dy) * 2) / 3) + Delta(2 * minu(dx, dy), dx + dy); 01:27:04 <Samu> testing return ((minu(dx, dy) * 4) / 3) + Delta(2 * minu(dx, dy), dx + dy); 01:27:23 <Samu> ok i'm getting closer 01:28:23 <goodger> why not preempt greenspun's tenth law 01:40:26 <Samu> return ((minu(dx, dy) * 4) / 3) + dx + dy - 2 * minu(dx, dy); 01:45:26 *** supermop has joined #openttd 02:07:26 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 02:11:58 *** Samu has quit IRC 03:12:10 *** glx has quit IRC 03:18:07 *** supermop has quit IRC 03:38:04 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 04:19:53 *** 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#openttd 10:23:45 <Wolf01> o/ 10:23:59 <Wolf01> Pfff, missed the right time again 10:31:40 <Alberth> o/ 10:43:24 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:43:35 <Samu> hi 10:46:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v orudge 10:46:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v DorpsGek 10:46:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Alberth 10:48:13 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 10:53:57 <Samu> @calc dx + dy 10:53:57 <DorpsGek> Samu: Error: 'dx' is not a defined function. 10:55:48 <Samu> @calc 100 + 500 - ((100 + 500) - (2 * 100) / 3) 10:55:48 <DorpsGek> Samu: 66.6666666667 10:56:22 <Samu> @calc 100 + 500 - ((100 + 500) - ((2 * 100) / 3)) 10:56:22 <DorpsGek> Samu: 66.6666666667 10:56:29 <Samu> bah 10:57:17 <Samu> @calc 600 - (600 - 200 / 3) 10:57:17 <DorpsGek> Samu: 66.6666666667 10:57:57 <Samu> @calc 600 + 600 - (600 - 200 / 3) 10:57:57 <DorpsGek> Samu: 666.666666667 10:58:15 <Samu> @calc 600 + (600 - 600 - 200 / 3) 10:58:16 <DorpsGek> Samu: 533.333333333 10:58:19 <Samu> aha 11:00:28 <_dp_> @calc 600 - 600 + 600 - 600 + 600 - 600 + 600 - 600 + 600 - 600 + 600 - 600 + 200 / 3 11:00:28 <DorpsGek> _dp_: 66.6666666667 11:00:35 <_dp_> shocking :/ 11:01:06 <Samu> im terrible 11:01:09 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:03:28 <Samu> return Delta(dx + dy, 2 * minu(dx, dy) / 3); 11:04:16 <Samu> @calc (100+500)-2*100/3 11:04:16 <DorpsGek> Samu: 533.333333333 11:04:20 <Samu> that! 11:04:58 <Alberth> it misses a few '3' at the end 11:05:38 <Samu> @calc (100+100)-2*100/3 11:05:38 <DorpsGek> Samu: 133.333333333 11:05:48 <Samu> uh, nope 11:05:52 <Samu> bah bad formula 11:06:13 <Samu> wait a min 11:06:19 <Samu> that's actually right 11:06:24 <Samu> 133 is right 11:06:27 <Samu> duh 11:07:27 <Samu> i think i got the profit formula i was looking for 11:07:34 <andythenorth> cat is 11:08:05 <Samu> actually, i'm not even touching the profit formula, but the distance that goes into the profit calculations 11:09:51 <Samu> @calc (0+500)-2*0/3 11:09:51 <DorpsGek> Samu: 500 11:09:55 <Samu> great 11:10:22 <_dp_> Samu, your formula is min(dx, dy) / 3 + max(dx, dy) what kind of nonsense in this? 11:13:37 <Samu> @calc 100 / 3 + 500 11:13:37 <DorpsGek> Samu: 533.333333333 11:14:11 <Samu> @calc 0 + 500 11:14:11 <DorpsGek> Samu: 500 11:14:30 <Samu> makes sense 11:14:40 <Alberth> :D 11:14:45 <_dp_> actually, nvm, it same as mine 4 * min(dx, dy) / 3 + |dx-dy| ))) 11:15:42 <_dp_> though 2 * min(dx, dy) + 3 * |dx-dy| / 2 is much better one 11:18:19 <Samu> @calc 4*100/3 + |100-500| 11:18:20 <DorpsGek> Samu: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1) 11:18:39 <Samu> what is |dx-dy| ? 11:18:52 <_dp_> @calc 4*100/3 + abs(100-500) 11:18:52 <DorpsGek> _dp_: 533.333333333 11:19:29 <Samu> nice, that seems to be what we're looking for 11:20:06 <_dp_> Samu, well, I've no idea what you're looking for 11:20:42 <_dp_> Samu, mine is a distance in same metrics that vehicle movement uses 11:21:13 <Samu> when traveling N<->S, a train takes 396 days to travel 2000 tiles 11:22:24 <Samu> but 396 days travelling on NE<->SW the train only advanced 1333 tiles 11:22:31 *** SpBot has quit IRC 11:22:34 * andythenorth should make some Road Hog 11:22:37 <andythenorth> or NotRoadTypes 11:22:39 <andythenorth> or something 11:23:02 <andythenorth> anyone tried Road Hog? 11:23:18 <Alberth> make notroadhog? 11:23:41 <Samu> @calc 2 * 1000 / 1333 11:23:41 <DorpsGek> Samu: 1.50037509377 11:23:44 <andythenorth> is that just not making it? 11:23:45 <andythenorth> o_O 11:23:48 <andythenorth> seems easy 11:23:51 <Alberth> :) 11:23:59 * _dp_ thinking about random jump vehicle 11:24:06 <Alberth> done for the day, then :) 11:24:07 <andythenorth> strictly Road Hog is NoteGRVTS 11:24:14 <_dp_> sooner or later it will arrive to destination... 11:24:22 <andythenorth> nothing wrong with eGRVTS, but we need more than one road vehicle grf :P 11:24:28 <Samu> @calc 2 * 1000 / 3 11:24:28 <DorpsGek> Samu: 666.666666667 11:24:35 <Samu> ah, better 11:24:44 <Alberth> so few RV grfs? 11:24:52 <andythenorth> so few viable ones 11:25:01 <Alberth> ah 11:25:13 <Alberth> most only do pax? 11:25:40 <Samu> @calc 1000/3 +1000 11:25:40 <DorpsGek> Samu: 1333.33333333 11:26:02 <andythenorth> or not nice sprites 11:26:04 <Samu> min(dx, dy) / 3 + max(dx, dy) is the best 11:26:06 <andythenorth> or based on realism 11:26:09 <Samu> will use it 11:26:17 <andythenorth> eGRVTS never tried realism, which is why it works 11:27:25 <_dp_> Samu, no it's not, it's reducing possible income of map 11:27:28 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:33:27 <Samu> that's the intention 11:33:44 <Alberth> let's just return the constant 1, always 11:34:11 <Samu> if it is the right amount 11:34:22 <Samu> i'm still checking if it fits my criteria 11:34:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that follows the rules of a metric :p 11:36:41 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, (int)(x != y) does I think 11:37:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that's not "constant 1" 11:37:24 <_dp_> ... where x and y are pairs... 11:37:36 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, almost ;) 11:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause> well, "almost" is very important with these things :p 11:42:04 <Alberth> dx || dy ? 11:42:09 <Samu> min(dx,dy) / 3 is still not right there 11:42:39 *** Mazur has quit IRC 11:43:32 <_dp_> Alberth, yeah, discrete metric 11:43:35 <Samu> (min(dx,dy) / 3) / 2 is still not right there 11:44:01 <Samu> oops i mean i'll try (min(dx,dy) / 3 / 2 11:44:58 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: tram station behaviour…what’s the optimum length(s) for single-unit mail trams? 11:45:33 <Wolf01> o/ 11:45:38 <andythenorth> lo Wolf01 11:45:41 <Eddi|zuHause> optimal length for trams is 1 full tile (vehicle lengths) 11:45:56 <andythenorth> I made all the freight trams 16/8 11:45:59 <Eddi|zuHause> *(2 vehicle lengths) 11:46:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, keep it that way 11:46:31 <Alberth> no messy multi-tram loading from one tile 11:46:54 <andythenorth> mail trams aren’t that big 11:46:57 <andythenorth> or maybe they should be 11:47:04 * andythenorth looks at capacities 11:48:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's one of the places where gameplay > realism 11:48:27 <andythenorth> do you need a tram carrying 200 bags of mail? 11:48:31 <andythenorth> you / one / anyone 11:48:51 <andythenorth> hmm 11:48:53 <Eddi|zuHause> better be consistent than realistic here 11:49:11 <Alberth> as there is usually 1 tram with mail available, I take what exists :) 11:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i always thought the capacity of rail wagons is too small for mail 11:49:23 <andythenorth> trams are high density 11:49:28 <andythenorth> you want small, get a truck :) 11:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want to run a passenger train with only one mail wagon 11:50:18 <andythenorth> hmm 11:50:30 <andythenorth> should mailbags maintain parity with pax capacity? 11:50:35 <Samu> oops, this one is worse, i must be missing something 11:50:36 * andythenorth looking at Iron Horse 11:50:46 <Alberth> combined passenger/mail wagon was nice, but in the end, mail took too much room, and I swapped all but one combined wagon iirc 11:51:14 <andythenorth> per generation: 40 pax, 30 mail; 55 pax, 45 mail; 75 pax, 60 mail 11:51:18 <andythenorth> is Iron Horse current values 11:52:30 <Alberth> for trams, you cannot add wagons, so there, the combination makes more sense 11:52:49 <Alberth> maybe combined with larger pax only trams 11:53:03 <andythenorth> can’t combine trams ;) 11:53:09 <Eddi|zuHause> you can't really run combined trams 11:53:16 <andythenorth> can’t assign them orders 11:53:18 <Eddi|zuHause> because bus/truck stops 11:53:19 * andythenorth tried it 11:53:22 <Alberth> I meant adding more trams, for pax only :) 11:53:42 <andythenorth> oh, small and large editions? 11:53:48 <andythenorth> like the buses? 11:54:01 <andythenorth> small + fast, large + slow? 11:54:07 <andythenorth> or so 11:54:40 <Alberth> hmm, where do these combined trams stop? 11:54:43 <Eddi|zuHause> small+fast only if the game models inner city speed limits 11:55:12 <Alberth> too long ago that I played with pax/mail trams :p 11:55:13 <andythenorth> yeah, speed differences don’t work for trams 11:55:25 <andythenorth> I’ve levelled all the speeds per generation 11:55:52 <Alberth> makes sense, or you force to have separate tracks for separate types of trams 11:55:58 <Samu> return 2 * min(dx, dy) / 3 + max(dx, dy); 11:58:23 <Samu> hmm i'm back to my formula, takes less space 11:58:48 <Samu> return Delta(dx + dy, minu(dx, dy) / 3); 11:58:55 <andythenorth> hmm 12:00:37 <andythenorth> 16/8 box trams already exist, refittable to mail 12:00:52 <Alberth> for small towns, combined pax+mail is nice, imho 12:00:57 * andythenorth wonders what purpose specific mail trams have if same size 12:01:05 <andythenorth> Alberth: it would need a new station type ;) 12:01:28 <Alberth> right, clearly not thinking currently :p 12:01:45 <andythenorth> I’ve been there 12:01:47 <andythenorth> coded that 12:01:52 <Alberth> :) 12:01:53 <andythenorth> discovered it for myself 12:02:08 <Alberth> that helps a lot, in remembering :) 12:02:35 * andythenorth doesn’t like this pax tram sprites 12:02:39 <andythenorth> must draw new onws 12:02:40 <andythenorth> ones * 12:02:49 <Alberth> purpose is simple, they're for transporting mail 12:04:27 <andythenorth> also I could tweak appearance 12:05:35 <_dp_> hm, * Some curves were shorter than other curves. 12:05:35 <_dp_> * Now they have the same length, but that means that trailing articulated parts will 12:05:47 <_dp_> no they are not :p 12:07:02 <Samu> darn, still not quite there, but im getting closer 12:09:17 <Samu> i think im not yet accounting for the speed deficit correctly 12:09:24 <Samu> erm speed bonus 12:15:56 <_dp_> http://imgur.com/a/Wz18z 12:16:07 <_dp_> surprisingly it's not really a bug 12:20:32 <Samu> return Delta(dx + dy, minu(dx, dy) / 2); 12:20:37 <Samu> instead of /3 12:24:14 <_dp_> https://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=commit;f=src/saveload/afterload.cpp;h=7fcae50579f69e6d4fba8d4e9445ef5e93c1c711 12:24:25 <_dp_> this commit is really confusing 12:27:40 <_dp_> savegame conversion in particular, it looks like it was made for some completely different change 12:29:30 *** Gja has joined #openttd 12:29:50 <Samu> I got it! 12:29:58 <Samu> this is it! return Delta(dx + dy, minu(dx, dy) / 3); 12:30:03 <Samu> oops /2 12:30:05 <Samu> this is it! return Delta(dx + dy, minu(dx, dy) / 2); 12:31:29 <Samu> now road vehicles will cry 12:31:50 <Samu> but the other vehicle types shall profit the right way 12:33:45 <Samu> return min(dx, dy) / 2 + max(dx, dy) 12:33:52 <Samu> it's the same as this, right? 12:34:49 <_dp_> Samu, yes, also same at ((3 * minu(dx, dy)) / 2) + Delta(dx, dy); 12:35:49 <Samu> @calc 600-100/2 12:35:49 <DorpsGek> Samu: 550 12:36:44 <Samu> @calc 3*100/2 + 500 12:36:44 <DorpsGek> Samu: 650 12:36:53 <Samu> @calc 3*100/2 + 400 12:36:53 <DorpsGek> Samu: 550 12:36:55 <Samu> right 12:38:26 <Samu> min(dx, dy) / 2 + max(dx, dy) - it can't be simplified more than this 12:39:11 <_dp_> Samu, depends on what you consider to be simple 12:39:30 <Samu> number of operations i think 12:39:37 <_dp_> Samu, then ofc it can 12:40:14 <_dp_> dx < dy ? dx / 2 + dy ? dy / 2 + dx 12:40:24 <_dp_> *: 12:40:26 *** chnkr_ has joined #openttd 12:40:38 <Wolf01> https://youtu.be/DYMEl-1q0Qs new Volvo's autonomous truck 12:42:27 <frosch123> _dp_: did you notice how off-center the (new) horizontal pipes in factorio are :) 12:43:15 <_dp_> frosch123, you mean that screenshot V posted? 12:43:43 <frosch123> http://eu3.factorio.com/assets/img/blog/fff-155-pipes-and-pump.gif <- that one 12:45:28 <_dp_> frosch123, well, not rly understand why, visuals is one thing logic is another 12:45:44 <Samu> thx _dp_ 12:45:54 <_dp_> somehow I doubt that offset has any effect on how they work 12:46:04 <Wolf01> Oh, new pups. Looks awesome, good guy V :D 12:48:08 <Eddi|zuHause> ieh.... pups... 12:48:38 <Wolf01> I have some problems typing these days 12:49:01 <Eddi|zuHause> ("pups" is the german word for "fart") 12:49:06 <Samu> it's seems to be working, i am comparing what's in the company bank account about ~7 years later, against the profit of the speed penalty patch 12:49:07 <Wolf01> :D 12:50:05 <Samu> and it's very much the same, sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less, but very much in the same line 12:50:11 <Samu> lel repetition 12:52:27 <Wolf01> Is OTTD game state deterministic? Given the same initial state you can have the same output every time? 12:52:55 <frosch123> sometimes it isn't, that's then called "desync" 12:54:47 <Alberth> only when the user also behaves deterministic :p 12:55:30 <Wolf01> I'm trying to figure out, to help some guy here, if is better to let the game running for 50 years and the take a mean of the results or just try to make a good representation of the game mechanics for an exact problem and test it in a single run (unit test) 12:57:42 <_dp_> Wolf01, I'd say single run is better. On long time spans different factors can accumulate 12:58:06 <_dp_> Wolf01, like station ratings changing industry production 12:58:34 <Wolf01> Yes, I intended that 12:59:42 <Alberth> I think it depends on how close you want to study the game mechanic 13:00:38 <Alberth> ie your two solutions test different things 13:01:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: if your "initial state" includes the random seed, all newgrfs and other settings, then yes, it *should* be deterministic 13:01:20 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and all user interactions 13:01:31 <Flygon_> You know you're too focused on old computers when you read "horizontal pipes", and think of the Copper Bars effect. 13:01:34 *** Flygon_ is now known as Flygon 13:01:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never heard of the copper bars effect 13:02:22 <Wolf01> Ok, so no really random stuff, random = desync 13:03:36 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, basically that's the only reason why multiplayer works 13:03:46 <Eddi|zuHause> without massive bandwidth 13:04:10 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro 13:04:35 <Flygon> https://megabitesblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/3.gif tl;dr - Amiga chip made timing the effect easy (Copper chip), but the basic effect is 'change palette entry each scanline to create gradiented bars'. Anyway, I'mma butt back out. 13:05:43 <Eddi|zuHause> oh one of those low-level hack things 13:05:53 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 13:06:43 * andythenorth reworking trams http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8084/pax_trams_such.png 13:06:52 <andythenorth> supermop_: pax tram drawings? o_O ^ 13:07:18 <andythenorth> Newbold, North Beach and Fairlop all need replaced wholesale 13:07:23 * andythenorth lacks inspiration 13:07:24 <Samu> http://imgur.com/a/v9Koz - train and aircraft started in Jan 1995, 9 years later compare bank balance 13:07:29 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 13:07:33 <andythenorth> Ladycross and Twinhills need improved 13:07:49 <Samu> left openttd - distance penalty 13:07:58 <Samu> middle openttd - speed penalty 13:08:05 <Samu> right openttd - original 1.6.1 13:08:37 <andythenorth> :o how is Road Hog 3 years old 13:09:47 <Wolf01> Did it already learn to talk? 13:10:39 <andythenorth> maybe 13:11:52 <andythenorth> it learnt to generate cargo sprites 13:12:02 <andythenorth> probably the most walking-talking feature 13:13:58 <_dp_> Samu, are you comparing distance formula with your speed patch? 13:17:43 <Samu> yes 13:18:42 <_dp_> Samu, ah, no wonder it makes no sense then. I thought 3/2 diagonal was somehow correct one in vanilla 13:19:53 <Samu> both solutions have problems 13:19:57 <Samu> speed penalty looks ugly 13:20:06 <Samu> profit penalty ruins road vehicles 13:20:21 <Samu> erm distance* penalty 13:22:18 <_dp_> who cares about rvs, they are screwed anyway :p 13:23:38 <_dp_> some of what adf88 said is more concerning though, diagonals are indeed harder to build 13:25:25 <_dp_> mb it's good though, if they are like half-functional why should they be more profitable 13:27:41 <andythenorth> RVs are the most boss transport type :P 13:33:06 <_dp_> well, all it means for rvs is that L-shaped roads will be worse than straight ones 13:33:52 <_dp_> whics is perfectly logical for anyone who doesn't live on Manhattan 13:34:06 <andythenorth> Wolf01: seen this? o_O http://www.technicbricks.com/2016/07/4x4-a25f-articulated-hauler-is-reality.html 13:34:14 <andythenorth> I thought it was going to be bad, but I like the video :) 13:35:02 <Wolf01> Yup, we had some of them running around at exhibits 13:35:39 <Wolf01> BTW, I don't like much how lego is doing even more licensed sets 13:36:15 <Wolf01> One at year could be, not 4 at the same time 13:37:10 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 13:43:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 13:43:49 *** supermop has joined #openttd 13:44:16 <andythenorth> bbl 13:44:17 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:46:56 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 14:28:08 <Samu> i gotta test road vehicle, too see the impact it has 14:38:09 <Samu> hmm the distance penalty can't be applied to road vehicle, as it was already accounted for in travel time 14:40:16 <Samu> unless... 14:40:37 <Samu> road vehicles travel even less frames on each curve 14:42:30 <Samu> another solution, though it would look kind of retarded, would be to speed up road vehicles in relation to trains, aircraft and ships 14:42:55 <Alberth> rename to road aircraft :) 14:43:20 <Samu> 100 km/h on a road vehicle would look faster than 100 km/h on a train 14:44:53 <Alberth> well, scales are non-consistent already, what's the harm? :p 14:46:03 <Flygon> Samu: That's actually a serious problem with irl level crossing safety 14:46:12 <Flygon> IRL, a train really does look slower than a car at the same speed 14:46:32 <Flygon> This's a problem, when you consider LX's (at least, in VIC) have trains going up to 160km/h 14:46:35 <Flygon> In the UK? 200... 14:46:37 <Flygon> @_____@ 14:52:52 <Samu> gonna try road vehicle speed up, lol 14:56:00 <Samu> inline uint GetAdvanceSpeed(uint speed) { return (this->type == VEH_ROAD) ? speed : speed * 3 / 4; } 14:56:13 <Samu> let's seee 15:00:16 <Samu> hmm nop, needs to be even faster 15:00:51 <Samu> @calc (3/4)*(1.5) 15:00:51 <DorpsGek> Samu: 1.125 15:01:11 <Samu> @calc (3/4)*(3/2) 15:01:12 <DorpsGek> Samu: 1.125 15:01:24 <Samu> so speed * 9 / 8 ? 15:01:43 <Samu> @calc 9 / 8 15:01:43 <DorpsGek> Samu: 1.125 15:01:58 <Samu> okay then 15:03:45 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:08:03 <Samu> something's fishy 15:08:03 *** Mazur has quit IRC 15:08:11 <Samu> can't really adjust road vehicle 15:09:33 <Samu> distance penalty is only adjusted for diagonal distance 15:09:59 <Samu> if the road vehicle now goes faster on a X axis, it would be gaining more than it should 15:10:25 <Samu> t.t 15:14:34 <Samu> must think 15:14:46 <Samu> hi Wormnest what's up 15:17:17 <Samu> need to look at transfers 15:18:29 <Samu> transfers would come up with a "virtual" tile coordinates for the cargo origin 15:19:29 <Samu> i dunno, need to think 15:25:57 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 15:27:59 <Wormnest> hi Samu ntm what´s going on 15:28:53 <Samu> ntm? 15:31:14 <Samu> Wormnest: i've been testing a few patches of mine to try to improve ship AIs 15:31:59 <Samu> but there's just some stuff that it's not possible or fair from the point of a human player 15:32:47 <Samu> question: are AIs able to build aqueducts or locks? they have the means to build suck thing? 15:32:54 <Samu> such* 15:33:58 <Wormnest> I can´t remember haven´t looked at AI´s in a while. You should be able to find it in the API if its possible 15:34:18 <Samu> API, ah 15:34:23 <Samu> where is it lol 15:34:27 <Samu> let me find 15:34:46 <Samu> https://noai.openttd.org/api/ ah, this? 15:37:12 <Samu> https://noai.openttd.org/api/1.6.1/classAIBridge.html - nothing about aqueducts 15:37:20 <Samu> maybe tunnelbridge? 15:38:17 <Samu> there is tunnel 15:38:30 <Samu> so, i guess AIs can't build aqueducts 15:40:14 <Samu> can build lock, docks, canals, buoys, right? https://noai.openttd.org/api/1.6.1/classAIMarine.html 15:42:14 *** Snail has joined #openttd 15:42:56 <Alberth> would be weird if it cannot build aqueducts, imho 15:43:16 <Alberth> on the other hand, anything is possible :p 15:43:36 <Samu> https://noai.openttd.org/api/1.6.1/classAIBridge.html#59e535dbd0cd8cc6566d6223b879f018 - ah it can, i think 15:44:02 <Alberth> haha, weird place for it :) 15:49:12 <Samu> EpicTrans apparently works fine with inflation turned on! 15:49:19 <Samu> but if it's off, it bankrupts 15:49:45 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 15:49:54 <Samu> it asks for money at the start, usually the maximum loan it can set 15:50:02 <Samu> then it says there forever 15:50:43 <Samu> max loan increases over time, but since EpicTrans doesn't loan anymore, it won't trigger bankrupt warnings, and doesn't bankrupt 15:50:52 <Samu> funny... 15:51:13 <Samu> typo it stays* there forever 16:00:25 <Samu> how do i get to the vehicle type that is currently transporting this cargo type that is being unloaded? 16:00:31 <Samu> lel 16:02:11 <Samu> I'm trying to change this line 16:02:12 <Samu> Money profit = GetTransportedGoodsIncome(accepted, DistanceManhattanProfit(source_tile, st->xy), days_in_transit, cargo_type); 16:03:14 <Samu> Money profit = GetTransportedGoodsIncome(accepted, "is not a road vehicle" ? DistanceManhattanProfit(source_tile, st->xy) : DistanceManhattan(source_tile, st->xy), days_in_transit, cargo_type); 16:03:21 <Samu> how do i get the road vehicle? 16:03:26 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 16:37:40 *** keoz has joined #openttd 16:39:56 <_dp_> I finally got what's happening in that commit. It's fine except that it doesn't do what it claims to xD 16:40:33 <_dp_> Removing meaningless condition but not making curves the same 16:45:36 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:45:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:50:16 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:54:39 *** Snail has quit IRC 16:58:02 <Alberth> :) 16:59:03 <andythenorth> child #1 wants road-rail vehicles :P 16:59:07 <andythenorth> do we have mixins? o_O 16:59:25 <Alberth> isn't it trams? 16:59:33 <Alberth> perhaps with bigger wheels :) 16:59:58 <andythenorth> possibly :) 17:01:04 <Alberth> or a big truck transporting an engine :p 17:02:20 * andythenorth needs 6 different mail trams 17:02:21 <andythenorth> https://www.flickr.com/photos/jacksnell707/5060062507/ 17:02:23 <andythenorth> is one 17:03:29 <Alberth> like the colours :) 17:05:00 <andythenorth> here’s another type, shorter http://imagestorage.nerail.org/photos/2010/02/03/201002031234389121.jpg 17:07:34 *** Lejving has quit IRC 17:09:54 <Alberth> older too, by the looks of it :) 17:10:25 <Alberth> would it be a post office too? 17:11:42 <andythenorth> irl 17:11:47 <andythenorth> not so much in ottd 17:12:31 <Alberth> yeah, I could see that working irl 17:13:08 <andythenorth> fortunately our mail does not have destinations 17:14:46 <Alberth> it can have :) 17:15:02 <Alberth> but not much better than "other city" :) 17:15:54 <Alberth> simutrans does that with pax iirc, they walk from the closest station to their home 17:15:55 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 17:19:11 * andythenorth considers playing ottd 17:19:42 <andythenorth> any new GS? o_O 17:25:42 <sim-al2> >Playing OTTD 17:25:45 <sim-al2> THE HORROR 17:25:46 <Alberth> new maglev tracks? 17:28:55 <supermop> yo andy 17:29:19 <supermop> all mail trams same length? 17:30:08 <supermop> i got a strongbox running around in 1976 here 17:30:51 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:31:38 <andythenorth> if I follow eddi’s recommendation, all mail trams will be 16/8 17:31:51 <andythenorth> so 4 x 4/8, or 2 x 8/8 17:32:11 <andythenorth> or 4/8 engine and 2 x 6/8 wagons 17:32:21 <andythenorth> I should make all pax trams 16/8 as well 17:32:59 <Alberth> hmm, I guess there should be some for wrapping file reading from tar files in openttd? 17:34:16 <supermop> no single car/single truck trams? 17:35:17 <supermop> the melb ones ive seen were more like 4 wheel rigid body i recall 17:37:24 *** keoz has quit IRC 17:37:33 <andythenorth> supermop: problem is getting them to 16/8 length 17:37:51 <supermop> for blocking out a tram stop? 17:38:21 <andythenorth> yeah 17:38:25 <andythenorth> means 4 of them at 4/8 17:39:07 <supermop> going to look more like little trains than trains 17:39:10 <supermop> trams 17:39:11 <andythenorth> or 1 at 6/8 or so, and 2 5/8 wagons 17:42:47 <andythenorth> he http://www.bahnaktuell.net/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=8346&g2_serialNumber=2 17:44:45 <sim-al2> Hmmm that's interesting 17:47:19 *** Snail has joined #openttd 17:52:22 <andythenorth> supermop: o_O https://www.transportfever.net/index.php/Attachment/17898-2014-11-12-00003-jpg/ 17:54:39 <Samu> rail of type road 17:54:46 <Samu> move all road code to rail 17:54:49 <Samu> keks 17:55:07 <Samu> and then make diagonal roads 17:55:52 <andythenorth> diagonal roads don’t work 17:56:10 <Samu> diagonal "rail of type road" 17:56:30 * andythenorth should add the supplies tram http://www.villamosok.hu/nza/7052mosz.jpg 18:05:03 <Samu> there is a DistanceMaxPlusManhattan function, it's a bit similar to what I came up with 18:05:27 <Samu> return dx > dy ? 2 * dx + dy : 2 * dy + dx; - DistanceMaxPlusManhattan 18:05:42 <Samu> return dx < dy ? dx / 2 + dy : dx + dy / 2; - what i came up with 18:07:18 *** Snail has quit IRC 18:08:45 <Samu> @calc 2*500 + 100 18:08:45 <DorpsGek> Samu: 1100 18:09:06 <Samu> @calc 100/2 + 500 18:09:06 <DorpsGek> Samu: 550 18:09:17 <Samu> eh, i see a correlation 18:11:53 <Samu> return dx > dy ? dy / 2 + dx : dx / 2 + dy; 18:13:16 <Samu> dayum, my function is equal to DistanceMaxPlusManhattan / 2 18:13:31 <Samu> the game already had the answer 18:13:38 <Samu> grr 18:14:07 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 18:16:09 <supermop> huge transformers by tram 18:16:31 <supermop> how to they lift it off the wagon with the trolley wire overhead? 18:18:47 <Samu> bah, the answer was right there, right in front of my eyes 18:18:53 <Samu> damn, :( 18:19:19 <Samu> the only problem, a big one actually, is road vehicles 18:20:15 <Samu> can't believe i wasted so much time fine tuning the distance to get a suitable formula, only to find it right there already 18:24:33 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pvs9p04um - wow, look at the size of it 18:31:08 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 18:32:31 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 18:33:06 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 18:42:01 <Samu> the topic had a lot of formulas and math involved 18:42:12 <Samu> but apparently it was so simple ... strange 18:44:50 *** Mazur has quit IRC 18:46:35 <Alberth> people that believe you can't insert an assignment to make it more readable :( 18:47:58 <Alberth> math works a lot better if you first specify the problem, and the desired properties of the solution :) 18:50:24 <Samu> adf88 posted a real problem about track costs 18:52:12 <Samu> "the death of diagonal rails" 18:52:15 <Samu> keks 18:52:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: remind me - the 16/8 trams is optimum to prevent station blocking? 18:52:48 <andythenorth> a stop will always be fully utilised? 18:53:26 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if 2 trams are following each other, they better distribute towards multiple loading bays at "end" stops 18:53:33 <andythenorth> yup ok 18:53:41 <andythenorth> means I need to rework the pax trams 18:53:59 <Eddi|zuHause> can probably be slightly shorter or slightly longer 18:54:05 <Samu> i see the formulas used in the forum did not account for the speed boost advantage that vehicles get on diagonals 18:54:37 <andythenorth> I tested longer earlier in the year 18:54:56 <andythenorth> 18/8 seemed to be optimum for non-blocking in the station layouts I tested 18:55:13 <andythenorth> but I didn’t test shorter and I cba now 18:55:14 <andythenorth> :) 18:56:10 <andythenorth> (didn’t test shorter than 16/8) 19:00:15 *** Alberth has left #openttd 19:05:30 <planetmaker> andythenorth, yes, devzone can mirror any git repo. But none of the build scripts with jenkins have been properly taught git 19:05:43 <supermop> andythenorth: any shorter than 16 and the following tram will try to squeeze into the last sliver of tram stop 19:06:01 <planetmaker> devzone can not only mirror it, it can host it natively, of course 19:06:30 <Samu> 1,41 - i've seen this value before 19:06:36 <Samu> 1,4142 etc 19:09:34 <Samu> @calc sqrt(2) 19:09:34 <DorpsGek> Samu: 1.41421356237 19:09:42 <Samu> k 19:15:24 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest25 19:15:25 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 19:19:59 *** Guest25 has quit IRC 19:45:00 <andythenorth> planetmaker: thanks :) 19:45:29 * andythenorth wonders if there’s a mercurial equivalent of github 19:45:34 <andythenorth> I didn’t find one 19:45:52 <andythenorth> bitbucket is closest, but the free / open source plan is limited to 5 users 19:46:22 <_dp_> andythenorth, doesn't github support mercurial too? 19:46:35 <andythenorth> only for import afaict 19:46:40 * andythenorth checks that 19:48:01 <andythenorth> there are hg interfaces to gihub, but not native hg support afaict 20:02:45 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 20:02:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 20:08:24 <planetmaker> andythenorth, you're dis-satisfied with devzone? 20:08:47 <planetmaker> and yes, there's no real equivalent to gibhub for anything else than git 20:09:17 <andythenorth> I like devzone and I like redmine 20:09:35 <andythenorth> but for open source collaboration they are limited, w.r.t specifically to ease of forking + sharing patches, branches etc 20:09:45 *** tokai has quit IRC 20:09:52 <planetmaker> yeah, that's true 20:10:09 <planetmaker> wrt forking, that's a feature which is supported by kallithea actually 20:10:45 *** Progman has joined #openttd 20:10:54 <planetmaker> it's just that we do not advertize it as we don't have any unified sign-on. And it would yet be another service which requires users 20:11:12 <andythenorth> for NotRoadTypes I imported ottd repo to github, then Wolf01 forked that, and then I can merge his pull requests back to my repo 20:11:25 <andythenorth> it’s not about git vs. hg though in this case 20:11:28 <andythenorth> just low-friction 20:11:32 <planetmaker> sure 20:11:40 <planetmaker> I'm just curious :) 20:12:05 <andythenorth> I think it’s quite hard to contribute casually to most of openttd or newgrf 20:12:13 <andythenorth> sharing patches in forum seems steam-age tbh :) 20:13:45 <planetmaker> I totally agree, yes 20:13:49 <frosch123> i thought the problem is that noone maintains the old projects :) 20:13:57 <frosch123> like noone working on opengfx and zbase 20:14:00 <planetmaker> that is of course another problem :) 20:14:33 <planetmaker> But that, of course, are related problems. If the contribution barrier is high, there likelyhood of someone tinkering with it an contributing is lower 20:14:44 <planetmaker> s/there/the/ 20:14:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: btw. openttd is mirrored to github officially, you could just have forked it there 20:15:00 <planetmaker> :D 20:15:02 <andythenorth> ha 20:15:05 <andythenorth> I assumed it wasn’t 20:15:14 <andythenorth> I use git.openttd.org for my check 20:15:19 <andythenorth> ‘assumptions’ :P 20:15:24 <andythenorth> checkout * 20:15:29 <frosch123> https://github.com/openttd 20:16:54 <andythenorth> 27 forks 20:22:15 <frosch123> spoons are better for coffee 20:22:34 <andythenorth> spork 20:32:50 <planetmaker> hm, openttd docker container there on github 20:33:46 <andythenorth> ha 20:34:04 <andythenorth> 4 of them 20:34:07 <andythenorth> https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=openttd+docker 20:34:19 <andythenorth> hmm 20:34:32 <Wolf01> Nice 20:34:39 <planetmaker> he 20:35:01 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: is it a viable tactic to use an invisble vehicle to extend tram lengths? o_O 16/8 is more visually restrictive than I want 20:35:11 <planetmaker> well... in essence the docker concept windows-izes linux: you 'buy' the whole thing without proper update function :D 20:35:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no clue 20:37:55 <andythenorth> seems a bit…janky 20:38:00 <andythenorth> prone to odd results 20:39:53 <Wolf01> "Why update if it works?" 20:42:59 <Samu> 3/2 or sqrt(2) 20:52:30 <_dp_> (1 + sqrt(5))/2 20:52:38 <_dp_> at least it will be pretty ^^ 20:57:50 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:58:26 <SpComb> frosch123: webster.openttdcoop.org is slow to show the 2016-09-05 logs :( 20:59:04 <SpComb> frosch123: can I remap http://irclogs.qmsk.net/channels/openttd/link/X -> https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd&date=X#X 20:59:15 <SpComb> frosch123: i.e. do unix UTC timestamps work for both of those fields? 21:00:55 *** Snail has joined #openttd 21:02:16 <frosch123> yeah, i have no idea what is wrong with 2016-09-05 21:02:21 <frosch123> the log is not particulary big 21:02:26 <frosch123> and i even tried it with a smaller one 21:02:37 <frosch123> it appears to be related to only the "date" :p 21:03:04 <frosch123> the only error message i get is that it aborts some php template engine after a 30 second timeout 21:03:08 <frosch123> i blamed php :p 21:05:08 <frosch123> SpComb: i did not install the webviewer, but the timestamps are utc, and trying some of those links seems to work 21:06:08 <SpComb> yeah, looks like it 21:06:31 <frosch123> the log is also broken for 2016-08-06 21:06:41 <frosch123> so maybe when months and date add up to 14 :p 21:07:09 <frosch123> july is fine though :p 21:07:10 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 21:09:02 <frosch123> # \ ] } 21:10:23 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:19:19 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd 21:21:16 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:22:59 <SpComb> frosch123: added a redirect for openttd links 21:23:29 <Wolf01> <frosch123> so maybe when months and date add up to 14 :p <- lolled too much 21:27:25 *** Snail has quit IRC 21:31:50 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 21:32:25 <Eddi|zuHause> some bugs have the most absurd reasons :p 21:41:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i've just got the most absurd spam mail i've ever seen 21:41:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't even describe it with words 21:41:56 <Wolf01> Screen? 21:42:31 <Eddi|zuHause> "Mparative inferiority of the interior tracts with which they have ready communication. Below Chesapeake Bay the coast system of great river-estuaries gives way to the Sea-Island system, in which the main-land is flanked by a series of bars or sandbanks, separated from it b 21:42:32 <Eddi|zuHause> --- 21:42:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus." 21:43:00 <Wolf01> Lol, even passed from Italy 21:43:00 <frosch123> the "business spam" that is send to openttd is way more interesting that the normal spam i get to my private adresses 21:44:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, it came from a telecomitalia server 21:44:32 <Wolf01> I think there's an italian zombie out there 21:45:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it's addressed to a "Kristi Clinkscales" 21:45:12 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever that is 21:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i don't usually get spam mail 21:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> but every now and then one gets through the cracks 21:47:22 <frosch123> well, private spam is like "buy this shit" 21:48:05 <frosch123> business spam is like "hey we are an awesome payment processor. we offer you a trial period, just send use a sample of your customer credit card numbers and what to process" 21:48:12 <Eddi|zuHause> the last spam is from about 2 months ago, saying i should get a job in "tax optimization" 21:48:50 <Eddi|zuHause> something about processing bitcoins and getting 20% 21:50:04 <glx> on openttd I got some "notice to appear" with a .js attached 21:50:27 *** keoz has joined #openttd 21:50:43 <Eddi|zuHause> about 4 months ago i got a "please respond to the cancellation of your contract" with a .zip attached 21:50:44 <glx> and an offer for wooden boxes from china 21:50:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so seems i get one every 2 months 21:51:08 <goodger> every few months I get some sort of offer for the guy who wrote chrome 21:51:32 <goodger> the last two years running I've been invited to give a lecture at the indian institute of technology at madras, in chennai 21:51:45 <glx> oh it wasn't a .js, but a .zip with .js inside 21:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you opened the zip? good lord... 21:52:06 <goodger> not sure how much confidence we should have in said institution if they can't distinguish a formerly world-leading software engineer from a randomer from cornwall 21:52:12 <glx> well .txt.js or something 21:52:49 <Eddi|zuHause> well, obviously... 21:52:54 <glx> 7zip doesn't run anything from inside the zip 21:53:02 <glx> so it was safe :) 21:53:13 <Eddi|zuHause> glx: it could be a 42.zip or something :p 21:53:50 <Eddi|zuHause> zip /dev/zero 21:53:54 <glx> I even opened the script in an editor to check what it looked like 21:54:50 <glx> full of obfuscation, not really human readable 21:56:53 <frosch123> i liked the notice that "a parcel could not be delivered" :) 21:57:03 <frosch123> i would also not know how to ship to openttd 21:57:30 <glx> parcel delivery spam is more usual on phone here 21:57:54 <Samu> everyone is talking about sqrt(2) in the topic about profit 21:58:02 <Samu> I used 1.5 21:58:25 <glx> but I fail to understand how people can call back on those 21:58:42 <Samu> got to make a test about using sqrt(2) 21:59:57 <Samu> maybe I am wrong (as always) 22:00:15 <glx> never use float math in openttd 22:00:16 <Samu> and 1.5 is the wrong value to use 22:00:51 <Samu> and the correct value is sqrt(2) after all, they're quite close 22:00:57 <Samu> but then how can i test ? 22:01:01 <Wolf01> I usually get spam about checking my home phone bill 22:01:02 <Samu> if i can't use float math? 22:01:29 <glx> you can test locally, but not in the final version 22:02:03 <glx> float math is highly platform dependant 22:02:07 <Samu> ah, oki, i will test then 22:10:06 <Samu> will use the nocab aircraft savegame for testing 22:12:01 <Samu> return dx < dy ? dx * IntSqrt(2) + dy : dx + dy * IntSqrt(2); 22:12:34 <Wolf01> IntSqrt? 22:13:15 <Samu> it's in the topic 22:13:31 <Samu> and it's in openttd 22:13:34 <Samu> :p 22:14:07 <Samu> no idea how it works though 22:14:10 <Samu> let me check 22:14:43 <glx> fake float math :) 22:14:49 <Samu> Radicand what is a radicant? 22:15:04 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 22:16:38 <Samu> ah, think im doing it wrong 22:16:53 <Samu> IntSqrt(dx) 22:17:43 <Samu> return dx < dy ? IntSqrt(2) + dy : dx + dy * IntSqrt(2); 22:17:54 <Samu> return dx < dy ? IntSqrt(dx) + dy : dx + IntSqrt(dy); 22:18:02 <Samu> think it's like this 22:18:59 <Samu> nop, it's not, omg damn it 22:20:05 <Samu> return dx < dy ? dx / IntSqrt(dx) + dy : dx + dy / IntSqrt(dy); 22:20:44 <Samu> i'm a terrible math dude 22:23:12 <Samu> return dx < dy ? dx / IntSqrt(2) + dy : dx + dy / IntSqrt(2); 22:23:43 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:24:17 <Wolf01> Instead of asking about 8192 different formulae, reason a bit on what you need to do 22:25:09 <Samu> i want a dx / 1.4142etc... aka square root of 2 22:25:35 <Samu> or dy 22:25:42 <Samu> whichever is lower 22:25:48 <Samu> dx or dy 22:26:24 <Wolf01> So, dx / IntSqrt(2) 22:28:26 <Samu> yes, but i am wondering what result am i gonna get 22:28:38 <Samu> i am suspicious of that intsqrt functionality 22:29:14 <glx> I guess intsqrt does sqrt in a portable way :) 22:31:03 <Samu> IntSqrt returned 1 unsigned int 22:31:08 <Samu> ahaha are you kidding me 22:32:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess intsqrt(2) will be 1, though :p 22:33:00 <Wolf01> Or maybe an integer number between 1 and 2 22:33:29 <Wolf01> With [1;2[ 22:34:28 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 22:36:50 <glx> * @return Rounded integer square root. 22:38:41 <Samu> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_root_of_2 22:44:24 <Samu> i can't do this square root thing 22:45:46 <Wolf01> 'night 22:45:48 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:46:09 *** aard has quit IRC 22:46:35 <Samu> how big is uint? 22:46:46 <Samu> maximum value that uint works with? 22:47:22 <_dp_> MAX_UINT 22:47:59 <Samu> uh okay 22:48:36 <Samu> @calc 4096 * 470832 22:48:37 <DorpsGek> Samu: 1928527872 22:48:38 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:48:54 <Samu> is that within uint range? 22:49:16 <glx> probably not 22:49:29 <_dp_> oh, sorry, UINT_MAX and it's platform dependant 22:50:30 <_dp_> but at least 65535 iirc 22:52:16 <Samu> const uint BIGNUMBER = UINT_MAX; - let's see 22:52:58 <Samu> BIGNUMBER 4294967295 const unsigned int 22:53:03 <Samu> ok, now i know 22:53:27 <glx> that's 32bit max 22:54:17 <_dp_> windows has 32 bit ints 22:54:33 <glx> yes and long long for 64 bits 22:58:40 <Samu> return dx < dy ? dx * 470832 / 665857 + dy : dx + dy * 470832 / 665857; looks so ugly 23:06:01 <Samu> this can't be right, grrr 23:07:13 <_dp_> ofc, you may as well try pi/2 23:09:49 <_dp_> oh, e / 2 is probably even better)) 23:16:07 <Samu> return dx < dy ? dx - dx * 470832 / 665857 + dy : dx + dy - dy * 470832 / 665857; 23:17:36 <Samu> i give up 23:18:22 <Samu> last try return dx < dy ? dx - (dx * 470832) / 665857 + dy : dx + dy - (dy * 470832) / 665857; 23:18:35 <Samu> if i dont get the aircraft profiting around 6000, i give up 23:19:31 <Samu> alright, i give up 23:20:16 <_dp_> Samu, it's the same formula 23:20:39 <_dp_> you just added redundant parentheses 23:21:08 <Samu> i dont understand what went wrong 23:21:47 <Samu> if dx = 100 23:21:48 <_dp_> Samu, what do you even want to achieve, start there 23:22:01 <Samu> i tried these 23:22:05 <Samu> 100 /2 23:22:13 <Samu> 100 / 3 23:22:26 <Samu> 100 / 2 is what seemed best 23:22:37 <Samu> it gets an approximate income 23:22:46 <Samu> to that of my speed penalty patch 23:22:50 *** Cybertinus has quit IRC 23:22:53 <Samu> over the years 23:23:12 <Samu> but i was suspicious about something, when everyone was using 1.4142 23:23:16 <Samu> in the forum 23:23:27 <Samu> so i wanted to try sqrt(2), but i don't know how to do it 23:23:39 *** Cybertinus has joined #openttd 23:25:07 <_dp_> Samu, and why are you using your other patch as a reference? 23:25:34 <Samu> because it could nearly achieve time travel parity on diagonals 23:25:40 <Samu> in relation to axis 23:26:22 <Samu> i want to try an alternative to the speed penalty, and went with a distance penalty calculation 23:27:16 <Samu> i also found out that for 2000 tiles, a train on diagonal needs only 396 days, but a train on axis would need 594 days 23:27:34 <Samu> and that the axis train was only doing 1333 tiles in 396 days 23:28:12 <Samu> now i want to calculate this "optimal" distance between the 2 stations 23:28:34 <Samu> for the profit formula 23:30:11 <Samu> i want 2000 tiles to be like 1333 tiles 23:30:31 <Samu> but vehicles also move 1.5x faster on diagonals 23:30:37 <_dp_> Samu, then compare profits of those two tranes, not with some arcane patch 23:33:20 <Samu> i can't compare the profits like that 23:34:56 <Samu> while the aircraft was doing about 9200 per trip on 1.6.1, on the spped penalty it was still doing about 9080 per trip, but this takes longer 23:36:13 <Samu> that dinstance penalty x/2 or y/2 seems to do what i'm looking for, but that's at a first glance 23:36:48 <Samu> 9 years of seeing the slow aircraft vs fast aircraft, the bank balance of both 1.6.1 and distance penalty was nearly close 23:37:30 <Samu> while one was profiting about 6xxx, the other was profiting 9080, and yet, after 9 years, the bank balance was not much different 23:37:56 <Samu> i still am suspicious that i am not quite there, that / 2 is not yet the target 23:39:59 <Samu> over 15 years, there was a difference, albeit minimal, it was becoming apparent. Seems that the penalty needs to be slightly adjusted, but not really sure what to do 23:43:09 <Samu> screw it 23:43:24 <Samu> it would still be a problem for road vehicles either way 23:54:20 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:54:40 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd