Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:24 <Samu> i tried admiralai, which is the aircraft winner with HUGE profits 00:00:52 <Samu> forced dummyai into his company, let the game run for 2 years 00:01:05 <Samu> I am honestly impressed 00:04:29 <Samu> darn imgur doesn't accept copy paste anymore 00:05:52 <goodger> Samu: try spectacle 00:06:32 <Samu> what's the site? 00:07:52 <goodger> uhhhh.... https://github.com/KDE/spectacle 00:08:17 <Samu> http://imgur.com/a/4mxOG 00:09:06 <Samu> i dont get spectacle, i need to install? 00:09:15 <goodger> mr sniffle looks like a badass 00:09:27 <goodger> oh windows 00:10:18 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 00:10:27 <Samu> imgur used to allow pasting images directly from the clipboard, but seems bugged since the big update for windows 10 00:10:57 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 00:10:57 <Samu> now i got to save the image on paint, browse upload it 00:11:29 <Samu> or give a gigantic link from onedrive 00:11:34 <_dp_> Samu, I just tested it and my formula is correct, if it's not for you then fix your tests :p 00:11:54 <Samu> where is your patch, must try it 00:12:16 <_dp_> Samu, return 2 * minu(dx, dy) + 3 * Delta(dx, dy) / 2; 00:12:37 <_dp_> you know where to put it) 00:12:38 *** keoz has quit IRC 00:13:08 <Samu> ok let me see that one 00:14:01 <Samu> ugh, must copy past getmanhatandistance for that one 00:14:13 <Samu> or distancemanhatan, whatever... brb 00:15:01 <Samu> uint DistanceManhattan_dp_(TileIndex t0, TileIndex t1) :) 00:17:21 <Samu> building 00:19:24 <Samu> ok running admiralai savegame for 2 years 00:20:05 <Samu> uh, profits are increasing 00:20:44 <Samu> let me confirm i didn't fail somewhere 00:21:56 <Samu> does this look alright? https://paste.openttdcoop.org/phnkvt9ud 00:22:48 <_dp_> yep 00:22:55 <Samu> ah, i see a problem, brb editign 00:24:19 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/diff/phnkvt9ud/pslvkynrl?/diff/phnkvt9ud/pslvkynrl - fixed, keks 00:25:21 *** Gja has quit IRC 00:25:44 <_dp_> you changed nothing 00:26:23 <ST2> DistanceManhattan gets equal to DistanceSquare 00:26:57 <ST2> useless to have 2 uint's there 00:27:36 <ST2> oh wait: what's the original? 00:27:38 <ST2> xD 00:28:46 <Samu> sec 00:28:50 <_dp_> ST2, good morning :p 00:29:08 <ST2> hey _dp_ :) 00:29:18 <Samu> http://imgur.com/a/DpOIO - profit went up 00:29:23 <ST2> it's weird... I'll call you dP ;) 00:30:13 <_dp_> ST2, yeah, some bastard aleready took my nickname here :( 00:31:01 <_dp_> Samu, yeah, it increases profits for straight lines making them equal to diagonals 00:31:17 <Samu> ah, you do the reverse of what i do 00:31:23 <_dp_> Samu, so overall icome is expected to rise unless they are all perfectly diagonal 00:31:53 <Samu> i reduce profits for diagonals 00:32:30 <ST2> well, I'll leave you both on that discussion ^^ 00:32:50 <ST2> good luck on both attempts :) 00:33:07 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pvs9p04um - my patch 00:33:18 <ST2> I place my bets on dP :P 00:33:25 <_dp_> Samu, reducing is bad, it will screw up 5 years of quest history on your servers if it ever makes to trunk 00:34:01 <_dp_> I place mine on nothing changing xD 00:34:22 <ST2> that's a safe bet... for sure ^^ 00:34:23 <Samu> quest history? what's that? 00:34:35 <ST2> but if anything changed... bets done :P 00:34:58 <_dp_> Samu, https://citymania.org/quests-last 00:35:19 <_dp_> Samu, and all highscores too https://citymania.org/best-scores 00:35:58 <Samu> oh... that kind of stuff 00:36:21 <ST2> basically it's something recording what servers gives - when achieving it... it's done :) 00:37:30 <ST2> dP (Citymania) have it changed on server side - so it has some measurements that a vanilla server can't give 00:37:31 <_dp_> Some quests will become much harder if not impossible, like this one https://citymania.org/quest/40 00:38:55 <_dp_> ST2, well, most of them is just another fancy way to require a lot of money :) 00:39:17 <ST2> I know ^^ 00:39:49 <ST2> most of the issues we have is because admin port only gives info quarterly 00:40:17 <ST2> someone already suggested change that to monthly, some time ago 00:40:37 <ST2> was crushed by devs, sadly 00:41:26 <_dp_> ST2, well, it's your decision not to patch server :p 00:41:42 <ST2> true ^^ 00:42:32 <Samu> a nerf to aircraft is always welcome, except that excessive infrastructure maintenance thing 00:43:31 <Samu> it works bad on small maps 00:43:52 <ST2> infrastructure maintenance is based now on number of tiles on stations (I think) 00:44:11 <ST2> when you build an airport, it's like a 7x7 rail station 00:44:18 <ST2> both sides 00:44:29 <_dp_> Samu, we have big aircrafts removed, and small ones are ok 00:44:33 <Samu> oh, really? nice, i got to try enabling it 00:44:38 <ST2> with the point that you dnt need tracks between 00:45:24 *** Myhorta has quit IRC 01:00:46 *** Lejving has quit IRC 01:09:01 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 01:15:40 <Samu> I'm bored - http://imgur.com/a/8JAn2 01:16:11 <Samu> enabled infrastructure maintenance and compared 01:19:21 <Samu> it's funny what the income graphs , delivered cargo show on the different versions 01:19:35 <Samu> speed penalty shows less cargo delivered 01:20:08 *** tokai has joined #openttd 01:20:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 01:20:23 <Samu> distance boost, that patch of _dp_, shows income increased, but profit decreased 01:21:57 <sim-al2> >1279 airports 01:22:00 <sim-al2> how 01:22:22 <sim-al2> Oh, AdmiralAI 01:24:36 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 01:26:59 <Samu> i'm off to bed 01:27:08 <Samu> out of these 3 patches 01:28:29 <Samu> the only I consider fair is that of speed penalty, but it looks really awkward with the sudden vehicle speed decreases/increases when changing direction 01:28:46 <Samu> wow im really sleepy 01:29:35 <Samu> but it's fair because it leaves road vehicles unaffected 01:29:54 <Samu> and the others don't 01:30:55 *** mindlesstux_ has joined #openttd 01:37:55 *** Samu has quit IRC 01:38:10 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 01:38:10 *** mindlesstux_ is now known as mindlesstux 01:46:51 *** Lejving has quit IRC 01:47:01 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 01:49:11 *** Mazur has quit IRC 01:52:58 *** Flygon has quit IRC 01:56:26 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:05:23 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 02:27:41 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 02:50:29 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 03:06:35 *** glx has quit IRC 03:08:57 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 03:57:59 *** Snail has quit IRC 04:26:41 *** Mazur has quit IRC 05:28:45 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 05:36:12 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 05:38:23 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 05:40:19 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 05:56:16 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 06:07:26 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 06:08:22 *** supermop has quit IRC 06:13:19 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:57:09 *** Progman has joined #openttd 07:01:11 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 07:01:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 07:01:21 <Alberth> moin 07:01:56 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 07:03:56 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:04:52 <andythenorth> o/ 07:12:30 *** efess has quit IRC 07:14:27 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 07:18:40 <Alberth> o/ 07:20:13 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 07:38:44 <Alberth> bbl 07:38:47 *** Alberth has left #openttd 07:49:59 *** keoz has joined #openttd 08:26:15 <andythenorth> tramz 08:27:21 <andythenorth> what are pax trams for? 08:29:07 *** Mazur has quit IRC 08:30:28 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 08:30:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 08:30:39 *** Kurimus has joined #openttd 08:34:03 *** Kurimus_ has quit IRC 08:37:27 *** tokai has quit IRC 08:43:04 *** Progman has quit IRC 08:45:36 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 08:46:33 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd 08:54:13 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:05:07 *** efess has joined #openttd 09:08:22 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:08:39 <Wolf01> o/ 09:18:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:21:32 <Wolf01> o/ 09:35:22 *** Gja has joined #openttd 09:38:15 *** Gja has quit IRC 09:42:27 <andythenorth> why are pax trams? 09:47:20 <Wolf01> Dunno 09:54:25 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 10:13:59 *** keoz has quit IRC 10:14:36 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 10:14:37 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 10:21:05 <Wolf01> o/ 10:21:37 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:28:58 <Alberth> o/ 10:30:46 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 10:40:14 <Samu> hi 10:41:40 <Samu> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6505 - question about this bug, are there objects that could be placed on coastal tiles with 1 corner raised? 10:42:23 <Samu> if so, then the patch I posted there isn't good :( 10:42:51 <Samu> it won't be checking if the tile is clear 10:44:40 <Samu> have to think of a workaround 10:46:40 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 10:46:46 <Wolf01> Quak 10:47:18 <Alberth> quak 10:47:51 *** Lejving has quit IRC 10:49:13 <frosch123> hoi 10:50:56 <Samu> how to deal with half water, half land tiles? 10:52:37 <Samu> how to check if the tile is clear on the half land part of it, but not on the water part? 10:52:40 <Samu> ret = DoCommand(tile, 0, 0, flags, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR); 10:52:45 <Samu> this one is bad 10:58:39 <Samu> :( sleepy chat 11:00:41 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/py1q66axy - lines 136-142 is where I've made the edits 11:00:41 <Alberth> for me, I have no idea what all the cases are with such a tile, so I can't answer your questions 11:01:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 11:01:46 <Alberth> and at least you change more than you promise, at first sight 11:03:24 <Samu> is there a No water flag? sec let me find 11:06:24 <Samu> yes 11:07:10 <Samu> well, time to test 11:08:50 <Samu> there is DC_NO_WATER and CMD_NO_WATER 11:12:00 <Samu> without the patch, "can't build railway track here ... ship in the way." 11:12:30 <Samu> this error comes up because of ret = DoCommand(tile, 0, 0, flags, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR); 11:14:54 <Samu> ret = DoCommand(tile, 0, 0, flags & DC_NO_WATER, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR); = ship in the way error 11:15:42 <Samu> didn't work :( 11:16:06 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:16:27 <Alberth> o/ 11:17:57 <Alberth> Samu: well, that makes sense, clearing a water tile means you remove the sea from it, can't have a ship on it then 11:18:21 <Alberth> s/sea/water/ 11:18:38 <Samu> DC_WATER then? 11:18:40 <Wolf01> Meh, GitHub project with external dependencies, SVN can't get them 11:18:43 <Samu> i think it doesn't exist 11:18:56 <andythenorth> are trams precursors to buses? (history lesson) 11:19:03 <Wolf01> And Git for Windows can't checkout the project "not a valid Git repository" 11:19:07 <andythenorth> or are trams high-capacity pax transport for cities? 11:21:19 <Samu> so now i'm at ClearTile_Water, at water_cmd.cpp 11:21:43 <Samu> /* Make sure no vehicle is on the tile */ CommandCost ret = EnsureNoVehicleOnGround(tile); 11:21:57 <Samu> this brings up the error ship in the way t.t 11:22:58 <Samu> case WATER_TILE_COAST: 11:23:01 <Samu> it's a coast tile 11:27:31 <Wolf01> What's the right command to make a link? ln -T /long/path/i/don_t/want/to/write/ ? 11:28:30 <Wolf01> Also I don't want to delete the linked folder if I delete the link 11:28:45 <Wolf01> (already happened) 11:29:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'd say trams came earlier than busses 11:30:40 <andythenorth> that’s currently how Road Hog models it 11:30:47 <andythenorth> but it causes problems with design 11:31:16 <andythenorth> the constraints for trams push them to have relatively high capacity 11:31:24 <andythenorth> which makes them ineffective for most towns 11:32:01 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 11:33:26 <Eddi|zuHause> well, if you can't justify making the early trams a full tile, then don't... 11:34:55 <andythenorth> I could 11:35:08 <andythenorth> but they’d have capacity of 100 or more 11:35:11 <andythenorth> which might be fine 11:35:35 <andythenorth> currently buses start at 1900 or so, I’m considering adding older versions 11:35:48 <andythenorth> steam buses are valid historically, and also gameplay > realism 11:36:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd vote for horse carriages 11:39:28 <andythenorth> can’t use drive-in stops :P 11:39:37 <andythenorth> eh, I could just not articulate them 11:42:41 *** tokai has joined #openttd 11:42:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 11:55:44 <Samu> can't make it work 11:57:19 <Samu> if (ret.Failed() && ret.GetErrorMessage() == STR_ERROR_SHIP_IN_THE_WAY) "change it to Succeeded()" 11:57:28 <Samu> how do i do this 11:57:36 <Samu> change a fail into a success? 11:59:57 <Wolf01> By looking why is ret.Failed() 12:07:34 *** Gja has joined #openttd 12:07:58 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 12:07:58 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 12:08:25 <Samu> it failed because there is a ship in the way, but i'm building a rail on the land part 12:08:45 <Samu> doesn't make sense to fail 12:11:33 <Samu> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6505/getfile/10596/allow%20rail%20when%20ships%20are%20on%20lower%20halftile%20v1%20r27653.patch 12:11:42 <Samu> oops 12:12:15 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=194573 12:12:19 <Samu> better link 12:12:31 *** tokai has quit IRC 12:13:06 <Samu> actually, that's a screenshot with my fix, grrr 12:13:20 <Samu> but i suspect my fix has issues, so i'm trying an alternative 12:13:29 <Samu> looking for an alternative 12:14:26 <andythenorth> 18/8 mail and pax trams offers quite nice visuals 12:14:30 <andythenorth> 3 x 6/8 units 12:14:33 <andythenorth> but... 12:14:39 <andythenorth> all the freight trams are 16/8 12:16:08 <Samu> http://imgur.com/a/cYTFa - here's the problem in 1.6.1 12:16:51 <Samu> coincidence, the tool turns red when i press Ctrl-S to take a screenshot, imagine it as red 12:16:57 <Samu> as white* 12:20:39 <Eddi|zuHause> does not sound like a problem 12:21:00 * andythenorth experiments with tram length and station blocking again 12:21:13 <andythenorth> I suspect it’s quite dependent on station layout 12:23:32 <andythenorth> 12/8 leaves some empty loading bays, and then the vehicles start tunneling 12:37:02 <andythenorth> Alberth: planning Maglev Renewal grf? o_O 12:37:55 <Alberth> nah, just trying some more improvements, scarily, it might involve pixels :p 12:38:20 <Alberth> ie further brighten the tracks, so you can see where they go 12:38:47 <Alberth> or darken the non-tracks, obviously :) 12:39:22 <Alberth> for some reason people are scared to paint them non-gray :p 12:40:07 *** Samu_ has joined #openttd 12:40:55 <Samu_> @logs 12:40:55 <DorpsGek> Samu_: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd 12:41:20 *** Samu has quit IRC 12:41:34 <Alberth> going offline to read the logs :p 12:43:29 <Samu_> i get disconnected 12:44:49 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 12:47:56 <Samu_> :( 12:49:16 <andythenorth> bbl 12:49:18 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:08:27 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 13:17:04 *** tokai has joined #openttd 13:17:04 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 13:21:55 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 13:37:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 13:43:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 13:46:17 <Samu_> cleartile_water needs a workaround 13:53:05 <Samu_> there is no real way to clear half of a tile, is it? 13:53:13 <Samu_> it's either all of it, or nothing 13:54:30 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:58:44 *** glx has joined #openttd 13:58:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 13:58:52 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8085/mail_tramz_such.png 13:58:56 <andythenorth> visually, 2 units or 3? 13:59:03 <andythenorth> obviously has gameplay implications 13:59:57 <Wolf01> We need to rework roadstops 14:00:33 <Wolf01> After NRT we could give them a look 14:01:09 <andythenorth> what look? :) 14:01:32 <Wolf01> A look like 1 vehicle per lane doesn't matter the length? 14:01:51 <Alberth> 2 looks nicer? 14:02:05 <andythenorth> Wolf01: would mean moving the loading bays? 14:02:12 <Wolf01> Sort of 14:02:25 <andythenorth> Alberth: I think 2 is nicer, but the behaviour in roadstops…leaves gaps 14:02:37 <andythenorth> looks messy :P 14:02:44 <Alberth> :) 14:03:30 <Wolf01> After NRT we should give some more life to roads 14:03:54 <andythenorth> we need that nml patch :P 14:04:42 <Wolf01> Rails have enough control with signals and layout, while roads have just the oneway 14:05:04 <Wolf01> Could I help with something non nml, non graphic? 14:07:02 <andythenorth> can you babysit and put away the shopping? o_O 14:07:19 <Wolf01> I'm a bit too far away 14:07:42 <andythenorth> can you persuade someone else to do the nml patch? 14:07:50 <Wolf01> Maybe 14:07:56 <andythenorth> it doesn’t require much design afaict 14:08:17 <andythenorth> just copy most of railtypes, but on feature ID 0x13 14:08:25 <andythenorth> drop the callback handlers 14:08:39 <andythenorth> maybe check if the tests need updated 14:09:11 <Samu_> ojects with water 14:09:16 <Wolf01> Shouldn't we define the features first? 14:09:39 <andythenorth> it’s what frosch said before, just get something compiling a roadtype grf 14:10:00 <andythenorth> frosch pretty much defined a spec last week or so in irc (logs?) 14:10:07 <Wolf01> Yup 14:10:26 <Wolf01> But I meant "define exactly what NRT will support" 14:10:53 <andythenorth> we need some collaborative editing tool 14:11:07 <Samu_> do you know of any newgrf with items than can be placed on coast tiles with 1 corner raised? 14:11:11 <Samu_> as objects 14:11:26 <andythenorth> like http://etherpad.org/ 14:11:35 <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> Rails have enough control with signals and layout, while roads have just the oneway <-- i can only think of distributing traffic over multiple lanes 14:11:47 <Eddi|zuHause> what else would you need? 14:12:19 <Eddi|zuHause> there's this old "traffic light" patch, which i never quite understood what it's useful for 14:13:21 <Wolf01> Yes, I remember that, we don't have "traffic", but I would like animated tiles with people on pavements 14:13:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i can't see how that would work, the people would need to traverse multiple tiles 14:14:05 <FLHerne> Samu_: Lighthouse set 14:14:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so you need to model the people (town road AI style) 14:14:24 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of "just" animating a tile 14:14:37 <Wolf01> Right 14:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> you wouldn't have the map space for animation state anyway 14:15:00 <Wolf01> Also, different kinds of road stations (eg. 2x2, 2x3, 1x4), hardcoded 14:15:14 <FLHerne> Samu_: Also all the OpenGFX+ Landscape objects, VAST objects, probably a lot of other things 14:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause> *cough* state machines *cough* 14:15:34 <andythenorth> I used to think that variety in road stop graphics might be wanted 14:15:36 <andythenorth> not sure now 14:16:12 <Wolf01> You'll need state machines even for roundabouts or highway ramps 14:16:32 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, "traffic objects" i called those once 14:16:44 <Eddi|zuHause> non-station things with state machines 14:16:54 <Eddi|zuHause> locks, drawbridges, onramps, ... 14:17:19 <andythenorth> roundabouts would actually be interesting 14:17:23 <Wolf01> Isn't really time to do state machines? 14:17:26 <andythenorth> locks also, are currently crap 14:17:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, feel free to do state machines :p 14:18:06 <Wolf01> Aren't they just move {23, 53, 1, 554, 22, 245, 6...} on a grf? 14:18:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd just say chances of success are fairly low 14:18:35 <Samu_> alright, thx 14:18:38 <Wolf01> The problem is to develop a proper editing tool 14:19:09 <andythenorth> where are the roadstops? 14:19:13 <andythenorth> are they spaced 8/8 ? 14:19:17 <andythenorth> [drive through] 14:20:05 <Wolf01> roadveh_movement.h? 14:20:59 <Wolf01> 1089 14:22:28 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:23:17 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: it's not just "move along these coordinates", but also "wait here if sections A and B are occupied" 14:23:30 <andythenorth> and prevent deadlocks 14:24:39 <andythenorth> Wolf01: stick to NRT? :D 14:24:43 <andythenorth> or we could fix rivers :P 14:25:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the road stops are continuous. the vehicle will move forward until it is stopped, an there it loads 14:25:16 <Wolf01> I'll prefer NRT, for rivers I would like far more stuff than just a fix 14:25:44 <NGC3982> So, i'm trying to split up cargo between two stations 14:25:47 <andythenorth> how long is a stop? 14:26:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the whole tile, i think 14:26:25 <andythenorth> there are 2 per tile, per direction? 14:26:41 <Eddi|zuHause> no, if you have short vehicles, more than 2 can stop 14:26:50 <andythenorth> hmm 14:27:00 <NGC3982> http://skarmdump.henjoh.se/wfafawfawf.PNG <- Sorry for the language, but that order say "full load at station one, go to station #2, when cargo is <50%, go to station #3". 14:27:01 <andythenorth> trying to understand this tunnelling I’m seeing with 12/8 trams 14:27:12 <NGC3982> This does not work, and i can't see what i'm doing wrong. 14:27:13 <Wolf01> roadveh_cmd.cpp, 1409 14:28:04 <Eddi|zuHause> NGC3982: which "this" is not working? 14:28:38 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: The train leaves all the cargo at station #1. 14:28:46 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 14:28:57 <Eddi|zuHause> because the conditional order is only evaluated AFTER unloading 14:29:07 <NGC3982> Ah, i see. 14:29:17 <Eddi|zuHause> so it can only apply to something that is left in the vehicle because it wasn't accepted 14:29:40 <NGC3982> So, splitting the cargo from the same train between two stations is therefor not possible? 14:29:48 <Eddi|zuHause> you cannot stop unloading halfway through 14:29:55 <NGC3982> Ok. 14:30:42 * NGC3982 settles with two trains. 14:30:50 <Wolf01> I usually do Load A, Go B, Load A, Go C, back from begin 14:31:19 <Wolf01> 2 trains also do it 14:37:36 <Samu_> alright, tiles of type objects won't bug out 14:37:44 <Samu_> it clears the object 14:37:50 <Samu_> then places the rail 14:38:14 <Samu_> but the real question is 14:38:37 <Samu_> are there objects that have track bits? 14:38:41 <Samu_> water track bits 14:39:13 <Samu_> or even if they re-use the existant track bits? 14:40:04 <Samu_> I am wondering if ships could walk on tiles of type OBJECT 14:40:04 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if you use a lot of magic water tiles, coastal industries rarely get built 14:40:16 <andythenorth> it’s not a valid way to detect small closed lakes 14:40:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: maybe, but i still think you're just not doing it right 14:40:57 <Alberth> sounds mostly like an engine primitive tbh 14:41:28 <Alberth> not sure if the user should have influence on it 14:41:35 <Eddi|zuHause> like, you don't need a 180° free space, but maybe two layouts which check 90° left or 90° right 14:41:55 <Alberth> but "does water has at least x tiles" sounds like something that could work 14:42:56 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how would you detect that the water body is closed? 14:43:08 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't 14:43:09 <andythenorth> I am happy to try something 14:43:14 <andythenorth> the issue looks silly 14:43:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but you maybe avoid thee most silly dead end cases 14:45:15 <Samu_> is that to me? *confused 14:45:16 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: propose layouts with ascii art? 14:45:28 <Samu_> Alberth: ? 14:45:29 <andythenorth> I’ll test them (it’s laborious, but eh) 14:45:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: not really in the mood for that 14:45:41 <andythenorth> eh ok 14:45:53 <Alberth> Samu_: no, it wasn't for you 14:46:22 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if you can produce ascii-art of the existing layout, i might some day get around to modifying them 14:47:20 <Samu_> static TrackStatus GetTileTrackStatus_Object(TileIndex tile, TransportType mode, uint sub_mode, DiagDirection side) { return 0; } 14:47:34 <Samu_> nice, that was the answer I was looking for 14:47:41 <Samu_> no tracks on object tiles 14:48:14 <Samu_> that means my patch is *ahem* bug free 14:48:54 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you could just supply python directly :P http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/industries/bulk_terminal.py#L549 14:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: '255' is the magic water tile? 15:01:12 <Samu_> 255 is the same as 0xFF 15:01:22 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: yes 15:01:29 <Samu_> it ensures that the tile is water 15:01:39 <andythenorth> if it’s simply a matter of having 16 layouts or so....fine 15:01:50 <andythenorth> but I miss how that will find the lake case :) 15:01:52 <Samu_> i remember working with the oil rig layout 15:01:56 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Thanks :) 15:02:37 <Samu_> it can also be canals 15:02:39 <Samu_> or rivers 15:03:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it can't find "lakes" (as in bodies of water not connected to the map edge), but it could make sure the "lake" is somewhat big enough to plausibly explain the presence of this industry 15:04:30 <V453000> yo homanz 15:04:39 <andythenorth> also frogs 15:04:42 <andythenorth> and cats 15:05:06 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 15:06:58 <Samu_> hi 15:09:49 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 15:10:59 * andythenorth wonders about writing a min. contiguous water tiles variable for newgrf tile check 15:11:39 *** Mazur has quit IRC 15:12:14 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 15:14:51 *** Lejving has quit IRC 15:14:59 <andythenorth> webster gone away? 15:15:05 <andythenorth> getting 500s 15:15:35 <Samu_> 15:14:59 <andythenorth> webster gone away? Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk 15:15:40 <Samu_> nop 15:17:53 <Samu_> i got a feature request 15:18:11 <Samu_> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75217 - plz plz 15:19:10 <andythenorth> +1 (if the patch is sound) 15:19:23 * andythenorth buys land to stop towns doing that 15:20:00 <Samu_> this alone avoids major cpu usage on ships that would be otherwise stuck, and lost 15:20:39 <andythenorth> can anyone see the logs for 5th Sept? 15:21:18 <Samu_> 5th september does not want to open 15:21:48 <Samu_> weird 15:22:00 <Samu_> 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 all can open 15:22:01 <Samu_> 5 cant 15:23:41 <Samu_> http 500 15:31:01 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 15:37:43 <Alberth> internal server error, call webster maintenance :) 15:40:29 <Wolf01> Funny when the maintenance guy get the error and had to call himself, and himself doesn't have a clue too :P 15:41:56 *** LongyanG has joined #openttd 15:43:03 *** keoz has joined #openttd 15:45:25 *** Long_yanG has quit IRC 15:48:42 <Alberth> :) 15:59:30 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 16:01:02 *** supermop has joined #openttd 16:02:38 <Samu_> building canals should be cheaper without the need of a newgrf :( 16:06:26 *** Gja has quit IRC 16:06:45 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 16:10:02 <Samu_> woah black bar spectator bug is still there, i reported it 1 year ago 16:10:27 <Samu_> http://imgur.com/a/heDFb 16:10:30 <Samu_> 1 year ago 16:10:34 <Samu_> look at date 16:10:43 *** Snail has joined #openttd 16:21:35 <andythenorth> hmm 16:21:45 <andythenorth> seems 9/8 vehicles fill stops without gaps 16:22:08 <andythenorth> that’s not a convenient length for drawing :P 16:24:33 <andythenorth> 10/8 seems to pack stations ok 16:28:53 <andythenorth> as does 14/8 16:29:03 <andythenorth> dunno why 12/8 doesn't 16:36:20 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 16:40:36 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 16:46:19 *** supermop___ has joined #openttd 16:46:22 *** supermop has quit IRC 16:46:30 <andythenorth> maybe I should just make one of those realism sets 16:46:37 <andythenorth> with a bazillion trams :P 16:52:39 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 16:53:18 *** supermop has joined #openttd 16:59:04 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 16:59:07 <supermop_> think i inhaled some cement last night 16:59:12 <supermop_> feel like shit 16:59:39 *** supermop___ has quit IRC 17:01:12 <Alberth> andy, that needs lots of pixels 17:05:01 *** Mazur has quit IRC 17:05:25 *** supermop has quit IRC 17:06:24 <andythenorth> Alberth: I’ll use PIL 17:06:45 <Alberth> fair enough :) 17:07:35 <andythenorth> random pixels 17:07:39 <supermop_> procedurally generated tram 17:07:58 <supermop_> no two cities trams are alike 17:07:59 <andythenorth> why do the metro trains in Iron Horse increase pax capacity so much per generation? 17:08:10 <andythenorth> they’re same vehicle length every time 17:08:24 <andythenorth> 240 -> 320 -> 400 17:08:35 <supermop_> andythenorth: have you seen a metro train from 100 years ago vs today? 17:09:02 <supermop_> they used to have nice caned seats facing each other, and a conductor in every car 17:09:56 <andythenorth> oh so it’s a legit increase? 17:10:06 <andythenorth> why don’t the mail units increase? :P 17:10:09 <andythenorth> who makes this stuff? 17:10:51 <supermop_> also most town sets are going to produce more pasengers in the 70s than the 30s, and increasing max speed alone will be worthless on a dense metro line 17:12:02 <andythenorth> true 17:12:15 <andythenorth> trying to find a scheme for tram generations 17:12:25 <supermop_> i see IH metro as more of a life preserver than gameplay feature 17:12:38 <andythenorth> are trams solving same problem as IH metro? 17:12:40 <andythenorth> or something else? 17:12:47 <andythenorth> [freight trams are fine] 17:12:51 <andythenorth> just need to sort out pax + mail 17:13:12 <supermop_> trams are distributive/feeder i think 17:13:40 <supermop_> better for branching out at fringes of cities 17:14:24 <supermop_> mail trams and mail metros don't have a widespread rl prototype, so they can be whatever you want 17:15:00 <supermop_> mail tube was what, like 1ft gauge? 17:15:12 <supermop_> thats more of a pipe than a train 17:16:44 <andythenorth> so what’s the capacity of a pax tram? 17:16:51 * andythenorth needs to reduce capacity of buses 17:16:54 <supermop_> ih metro is for when your trunk line runs through a conurbation and you cant keep up with sheer numbers created by .se houses, so you run a parallel metro track 17:17:01 <andythenorth> +1 17:17:15 <Alberth> finally a legit use of PIPE newgrf :) 17:17:56 <supermop_> i mean ive been on a w class with 60 or so people 17:18:01 <andythenorth> Alberth: :P 17:18:06 <andythenorth> I like PIPE :P 17:18:20 <andythenorth> use it in every game 17:18:22 <Alberth> never used it, must try it some time 17:18:32 <Alberth> for transporting what? 17:18:34 <andythenorth> oil 17:18:35 <supermop_> i use your shuttle and pumping station method andythenorth 17:18:37 <andythenorth> yeah 17:18:39 <andythenorth> it’s unusual 17:18:45 <andythenorth> and works 17:18:46 <supermop_> rather than return pipe 17:19:00 <supermop_> looks ok with the right station tiles 17:19:58 <Alberth> hmm, feeders from nearby industry would be possible with PIPE 17:20:03 *** Gja has joined #openttd 17:20:09 <supermop_> then dont need signals so can bury pipe in tunnels 17:20:21 <andythenorth> Alberth: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1163467#p1163467 17:20:29 <andythenorth> usually feeders yes 17:21:04 <supermop_> andythenorth: would benefit from a non-default depot 17:23:53 <andythenorth> agreed 17:24:20 <andythenorth> I thought of forking the grf 17:24:27 <andythenorth> just one pump per generation 17:24:39 <Alberth> I now often have these kind of lines between stations https://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/station_feeder.png 17:24:40 <supermop_> yeah i dont need the selection 17:25:29 <supermop_> except if you are trying to force the hand of cdist, and give one branch explicitly 1/3 the capacity of the other 17:25:35 <supermop_> works ok 17:26:35 <supermop_> use a 75k pump and a 25k pump and set them both to run once every x days 17:26:53 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:28:50 <supermop_> had a wasteland game with 3 towns in a line fed by one water source, 75, transfer at 1st town to a 50, transfer at 2nd to a 25 17:29:04 <supermop_> each town got about 25kL 17:29:20 <Alberth> nice 17:30:01 <supermop_> easier to set up in reverse to the onward capacity is already established when first water gets delivered 17:30:35 <andythenorth> it’s a myth that cdist measures capacity ;) 17:30:43 <andythenorth> unless I have made a myth that it’s a myth 17:31:50 <andythenorth> nope, I have it on record from fonso 17:31:56 <supermop_> ooh 17:32:05 <andythenorth> link capacity plays no role in demand calculation 17:32:13 <supermop_> well i somehow got water going all the way to the end 17:32:13 <andythenorth> only in assigning where there are multiple valid links 17:32:33 <Alberth> makes sense 17:32:42 * andythenorth was going to update the cdist wiki, there are multiple cdist myths 17:32:49 <andythenorth> never got round to that :) 17:33:00 <Alberth> it'll get reverted anyway :p 17:33:05 <andythenorth> I have a long transcript from April 2016 about it :) 17:33:09 <supermop_> keep it mysterious 17:37:16 *** juzza1 has quit IRC 17:47:34 *** Myhorta has quit IRC 17:49:47 <andythenorth> hmm 17:49:54 <andythenorth> way too much progression on buses 17:50:10 <andythenorth> 30 -> 50 -> 70 -> 90 17:52:24 <andythenorth> trams are 80 -> 120 -> 160 -> 200 -> 240 17:52:37 <andythenorth> also much too much 18:03:01 <Samu_> svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk 18:03:32 <Samu_> oops, nevermind 18:08:35 <andythenorth> Wolf01: work on NRT nml is blocked by lack of logs for 5th of September :) :P 18:11:43 <Wolf01> I have logs of that day 18:15:41 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 18:16:05 <Wolf01> I can't paste as text ò_O 18:17:00 <Wolf01> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pp0vfvw7j pasted as brainfuck 18:18:06 <Wolf01> I have a blank of 6 minutes at 22:22, the useful things might be there 18:21:07 *** supermop has joined #openttd 18:23:26 <Eddi|zuHause> something is weird :/ it messed up sound during boot, but i can't reboot right now 18:27:12 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 18:30:09 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 18:35:45 *** aard has joined #openttd 18:36:15 *** supermop has quit IRC 18:36:24 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 18:36:43 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 18:39:10 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 18:49:12 *** Progman has joined #openttd 18:49:30 <Wolf01> andythenorth, found what you needed? 18:51:49 <argoneus_> good evening train friends 18:51:52 *** argoneus_ is now known as argoneus 18:53:27 <andythenorth> Wolf01: think so 19:05:39 <Samu_> currently looking at my work last year, but i can't remember why I was focusing on permanent rivers 19:06:23 <andythenorth> because disappearing rivers are a bit weird? 19:06:32 <andythenorth> they should be immovables or something 19:08:09 <Samu_> they are not demolishable 19:08:26 <Samu_> maybe I had a really good reason at the time, now i can't remember 19:08:35 <Wolf01> I think rivers should have at least 2 fixed points, the spring and the mouth, in the middle you can change everything you want (width, shape...) provided the spring and the mouth are connected 19:09:07 <andythenorth> seems reasonable 19:09:17 <Wolf01> So nobody stops you from cutting a meander with a canal and blow up the old river 19:09:25 <Wolf01> But then you can't remove the canal 19:09:45 <Wolf01> And aqueducts don't count as river 19:11:41 <Samu_> if rivers are permanent, then why did i bother with the canal on river? 19:12:12 <Samu_> I should of just forbid canals being built on rivers 19:12:22 <Samu_> since they're permanent.. what's the point 19:12:40 <Wolf01> Having a straight path? 19:14:28 <Samu_> demolishing a canal built on a river, restores the river 19:14:43 <Wolf01> And that is good 19:14:45 <Samu_> demolishing the river... does nothing, not even a price, river stays 19:15:20 <Eddi|zuHause> "provided the spring and the mouth are connected" <-- i agree with that, but it needs the added condition that the connection only goes flat or down 19:16:12 <Eddi|zuHause> also, provide a setting like for blowing up town roads 19:16:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and change the town roads algorithm to a similar "needs an alternate connection" algorithm 19:17:21 <Wolf01> Yup 19:17:51 *** goodger has quit IRC 19:18:25 <Wolf01> Today I also found that Breadth First algorithm is faster than A* 19:20:15 *** goodger has joined #openttd 19:30:52 *** supermop has joined #openttd 19:34:00 <Samu_> i'm not sure if i totally like the idea of permanent rivers, unless the river generation algorithm is changed somewhat 19:34:05 <Samu_> or locks 19:34:24 <andythenorth> locks need changed 19:34:27 <andythenorth> locks are broken 19:34:50 <Wolf01> +1 19:34:56 <Samu_> ok tell me what needs to be changed about locks 19:35:18 <Wolf01> State Machine 19:35:40 <Samu_> what? 19:35:43 <Eddi|zuHause> <Wolf01> Today I also found that Breadth First algorithm is faster than A* <-- depends on what you search and how it is embedded 19:37:22 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 19:37:44 <Eddi|zuHause> A* might need fewer steps, but does more things in each step 19:38:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm a bit fuzzy on what exactly A* does, though 19:38:43 <Samu_> multi-threaded A* finding - does it exist? 19:39:44 <Wolf01> Is not A* which needs to be multithread, your application should launch a search on every thread 19:40:50 <Samu_> yeah, that 19:45:01 <andythenorth> locks are too big 19:45:11 <andythenorth> they should be 2 tiles not 3, or even 1 19:45:26 <Wolf01> And if you have 3-tile ships? 19:45:33 <andythenorth> you’ve done it wrong 19:45:36 <andythenorth> depots are 2 tiles only 19:45:47 <andythenorth> 3 tile ships aren’t valid 19:46:12 <Wolf01> Also train depots are 1-tile, but nobody stops you from having a 64-tile long train 19:46:52 <andythenorth> fair point 19:47:00 <andythenorth> 3 tile ships visually stick out of the ship depot though 19:47:12 <Samu_> there's 3 tile ships? really? 19:47:15 <Wolf01> No problem, I use open depots grf for ships 19:47:35 <Samu_> and what the heck is a 3 tile ship? 19:47:38 <Wolf01> Ship just automagically popups when started 19:48:05 <andythenorth> ha 19:48:55 <Wolf01> The sailing ship will glitch out badly if I don't ;) 19:49:25 <Wolf01> Also, bridges should be changed to define a heigth for what could pass below them 19:49:25 <Samu_> can i see a 3 tile ship? i thought they were 2 tiles 19:49:58 <Samu_> shouldn't that be a ship property 19:50:25 <Wolf01> Don't squid has some very large ships? 19:50:46 <Samu_> let me look, brb 19:51:25 <Samu_> is it FISH 2? 19:51:48 <Wolf01> Could be 19:53:28 <Samu_> holy crap, that is retardedly large 19:54:11 <Samu_> about ship height 19:54:22 <Samu_> it would require higher depots too 19:54:47 <Wolf01> Not only ship height, if one day andythenorth will draw a 5 stories tram, it shouldn't be allowed under a low bridge 19:59:06 <Samu_> interesting ships 19:59:23 <Samu_> but they're still only on 1 track piece, not 2 20:00:13 <andythenorth> they’re too big :) 20:00:49 * andythenorth must make improvements 20:01:47 <Samu_> http://imgur.com/a/EpIyM - i mean this 20:01:50 <Eddi|zuHause> once you have proper state machines, you can make locks as small or big as you like 20:02:10 <Samu_> what's a state machines? sorry I dont know 20:02:41 <Samu_> the ship is BIG, but it's still only using 1 track, on that water tile 20:02:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and ship dimensions must be dealt with separately, they will inevitably glitch all over the place, because their bounding box is too big 20:03:03 <Eddi|zuHause> you could separate it into smaller bounding boxes 20:03:11 <andythenorth> Samu_: yes, ships have no specific concept of length 20:12:52 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:19:17 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:20:10 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 20:28:14 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:36:37 <andythenorth> bed 20:36:37 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 20:36:37 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:38:50 *** aard has quit IRC 20:50:51 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 20:54:20 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 21:30:51 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:38:03 *** Belugas has quit IRC 21:40:06 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 21:44:00 *** Belugas has joined #openttd 21:44:00 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Belugas 21:46:08 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 21:49:23 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 21:59:05 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:30:27 *** Mazur has quit IRC 22:34:08 *** keoz has quit IRC 22:39:45 <Wolf01> 'night 22:39:48 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:44:28 *** Mazur has joined #openttd 23:02:15 *** Mazur has quit IRC 23:15:54 *** glx has quit IRC 23:25:15 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 23:28:39 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest120 23:28:40 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 23:31:05 *** supermop has quit IRC 23:34:38 *** Guest120 has quit IRC 23:35:57 <Samu_> once i place a buoy on water, i have to move mouse cursor around for it to be drawn 23:37:32 *** supermop has joined #openttd 23:37:52 <Samu_> happens more often at zoom x2 and x4 23:43:39 *** supermop___ has joined #openttd 23:43:42 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 23:44:40 <Samu_> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6508 23:44:53 <Samu_> why don't you fix bugs? 23:45:02 <Samu_> at least those minor ones 23:45:22 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 23:47:20 *** supermop____ has joined #openttd 23:50:07 *** supermop has quit IRC 23:51:42 *** supermop___ has quit IRC 23:53:23 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 23:58:14 *** supermop has joined #openttd 23:58:53 *** Gja has quit IRC