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00:06:42 <Fujk> anyone know how to use Modular Locomotive sheds? I can't find anything placeable in game 00:23:15 *** funkyL has quit IRC 00:43:00 *** Samu has quit IRC 00:43:39 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 00:43:39 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 00:50:31 *** tokai has quit IRC 01:09:01 *** Cybertinus has quit IRC 01:14:33 *** LadyHawk- has joined #openttd 01:16:46 *** Cybertinus has joined #openttd 01:16:47 *** DDR has quit IRC 01:17:06 *** LadyHawk has quit IRC 01:17:06 *** LadyHawk- is now known as LadyHawk 01:17:30 *** DDR has joined #openttd 01:26:36 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 01:49:14 *** Lejving_ has joined #openttd 01:55:41 *** Lejving has quit IRC 02:31:29 *** glx has quit IRC 03:32:34 *** Snail has quit IRC 03:39:38 *** Snail has joined #openttd 03:47:13 *** Snail has quit IRC 04:14:36 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 04:16:42 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 04:22:46 *** Fujk has quit IRC 05:38:15 *** ConductorCat has quit IRC 06:02:21 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:25:35 *** ConductorCat has joined #openttd 06:36:12 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 06:36:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 06:44:27 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:55:08 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 07:05:31 *** keoz has joined #openttd 07:18:46 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:18:48 <andythenorth> o/ 07:20:30 <Alberth> o/ 07:21:18 <andythenorth> is tram https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db1Vlvm9-kw 07:23:15 <Alberth> it seems a bit strange to me, trams transporting freight, I am so used to trams for pax only :) 07:24:57 <andythenorth> it’s hardly common :) 07:25:33 <andythenorth> ha this one is good http://www.tramz.com/br/pj/pj15.jpg 07:28:10 <Alberth> /me likes 07:28:28 <Alberth> trams are cheaper to run than regular trains, I guess 07:31:59 <andythenorth> they don’t need signals and so on 07:32:08 <andythenorth> so cheaper total cost of operation 07:33:31 <andythenorth> in America the street railways were sometimes the connection between railroad and factory 07:33:49 <andythenorth> normal wagons, hauled by tram engines for some last miles 07:34:56 * andythenorth train nerd today 07:35:16 <Alberth> IH day :) 07:36:27 * andythenorth -> kids football 07:36:29 <andythenorth> bbl 07:36:30 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:04:12 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:04:22 <Wolf01> Moin 08:08:32 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 08:11:21 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 08:16:38 *** gelignite has quit IRC 08:17:50 <Alberth> hihi 08:27:06 <Flygon> Alberth: Visit Melbourne, pre-80s :) 08:27:17 <Flygon> We use to have freight trams dedicated to transporting canines 08:27:18 <Flygon> Seriously. 08:27:36 <Flygon> Though, rather than Tram loading gauge locomotives 08:27:49 <Flygon> We ran single unit cars 08:28:33 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 08:29:36 <Alberth> ok 08:29:48 <Alberth> /me steps in the time-travel machine 08:30:00 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 08:36:51 <Rubidium> Alberth: you could go for a weekend to Melbourne; leave Friday around 21:30, return monday around 06:30. Then you got from 07:00 till 13:00 on Sunday in Melbourne ;) 08:38:07 <Alberth> ha :) 08:38:30 <Alberth> not exactly pre-80s, unless Flygon means 2080 :) 08:38:44 <Flygon> Well... 08:38:54 <Rubidium> They must have a museum with pre-80s vehicles 08:38:55 <Flygon> We basically stopped running Freight Trams by the early 90s 08:42:12 <Rubidium> but for the ultimate weekend trip... go to Auckland. You need to leave on Friday at 17:30 and arrive on Monday around 10:00... but you will have travelled quite a large number of longitudes and latitudes 08:42:40 <Rubidium> (probably the most you can manage in one weekend when departing from Amsterdam) 08:46:37 <Rubidium> Amsterdam -> China (4h transfer) -> Auckland (13h) -> San Francisco (3.5h transfer) -> Amsterdam 09:00:38 *** Progman has joined #openttd 09:01:12 *** Extrems has joined #openttd 09:07:16 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:11:22 <Wolf01> o/ 09:14:02 <andythenorth> o 09:14:50 <andythenorth> Wolf01: cogwheel NRT 09:14:55 <andythenorth> or cableway 09:15:04 <andythenorth> goes up hills with no slow down 09:15:23 <Wolf01> Agreed 09:17:27 <Wolf01> Let's do some NRT today 09:24:07 <andythenorth> quak 09:24:12 * andythenorth sees if that summons frosch 09:24:14 <andythenorth> works sometimes 09:25:56 <V453000> mooooooo 09:26:17 <Wolf01> You summoned a cow :D 09:31:34 <andythenorth> unlucky 09:32:42 <V453000> whaaaaat doooo yooooouuuuuuuu reequuuuuuuuuuuireeee moortallll 09:32:46 <V453000> mooooooooooo 09:32:47 <Wolf01> Committed a quick edit 09:34:22 <andythenorth> Wolf01: frosch might have a better suggestion, but I’d suggest we try to get a ‘normal’ road, where we can change the graphics, and vehicles can still drive on it 09:35:10 <Wolf01> Yes, I'm doing the structural part now, to prepare a base for loading the grf 09:35:40 <Wolf01> At the moment it just avoid to throw an error when loading it 09:35:44 <andythenorth> adding more types, and extended features (catenary etc) can come later :) 09:38:30 <Wolf01> Committed the biggest part, that spaghetti code which is "road types" with newgrf spec too 09:39:21 <andythenorth> I might merge that to my repo 09:40:27 <Wolf01> It's in my dev branch 09:41:33 * andythenorth exploring github 09:42:10 <Wolf01> Now... InitRoadTypes() 09:42:13 <andythenorth> pull requests are new to andythenorth 09:42:24 <andythenorth> usually merge branches in same repo :) 09:42:43 <Wolf01> I don't even know git, so I'm no help 09:43:29 <andythenorth> it’s just a matter of choosing right base and fork, but the direction is not obvious :P 09:45:45 <Wolf01> Ok, loading original roadtypes does not crash 09:45:53 <Wolf01> Which is nice 09:48:35 <andythenorth> Wolf01: is your gui branch merged into your dev branch? 09:48:58 <andythenorth> looks like it is 09:49:06 <Wolf01> No, there are some "in development" things related to gui 09:50:05 <Wolf01> For example, dev does not have separation between road and tram 09:50:26 <andythenorth> ah ok 09:50:32 <andythenorth> I was reading github wrong 09:50:35 <Wolf01> I should merge everything in trunk 09:50:46 <andythenorth> that’s why I can’t merge your dev to mine cleanly :) 09:51:34 <andythenorth> 9 conflicts https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes/pull/4 09:54:28 <Wolf01> Yes, I know 09:56:53 <peter1138> i had a patch for roadtypes once 10:00:36 <andythenorth> didn’t you have 90% of it, then got stuck on a decision about something? 10:01:34 <peter1138> probably 10:06:48 <Wolf01> Strange thing, really strange... _sorted_roadtypes -> 2, _sorted_roadtypes_size -> 0 10:07:32 <Wolf01> And it must increment that counter when it sorts the roadtypes 10:08:49 <Wolf01> Ok, it didn't load the label 10:12:57 <andythenorth> is the label there? 10:13:12 <Wolf01> The original RoadTypes should be there 10:13:17 <andythenorth> ah ok 10:13:23 <andythenorth> nml tests complain that some of the roadtable functions aren’t reached 10:13:29 <andythenorth> which I couldn’t figure out 10:13:34 <Wolf01> *should* mean that I missed something 10:15:47 <Wolf01> ResetRoadTypes() should copy from the original roadtypes table, which has the labels 10:17:47 <Wolf01> The worse thing is that I didn't ever call ResetRoadTypes() -.-''' 10:19:18 <Wolf01> \o/ victory, rebuilt the dropdown with the roadtypes definitions 10:19:25 <Alberth> \o/ 10:21:30 <andythenorth> Alberth: are you familiar with nml compiler at all? 10:21:49 <Alberth> I refactored it to python3 10:22:05 <Alberth> so I have seen everything, but no idea about global structure :p 10:22:28 <Alberth> in particular too many actionXYZ that have absolutely no meaning to me 10:23:09 <Alberth> I should probably write a few newgrf extensions to get the idea 10:23:45 <andythenorth> I have added parser functions for roadtypes, cargo-culting the railtypes equivalents 10:23:48 <andythenorth> but they’re not reached 10:24:00 <Alberth> ok 10:24:03 <andythenorth> I can’t find anything where the railtypes versions are called, so either I’m wrong, or there’s some magic 10:24:05 <andythenorth> https://github.com/andythenorth/nml-andythenorth/tree/NotRoadTypes 10:24:25 <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pr7x1z5mp 10:24:35 <andythenorth> parser.py is the file 10:25:06 <andythenorth> the roadtypes example grf does compile ok 10:25:44 <Alberth> making a clone 10:25:59 <andythenorth> apologies for git :P 10:26:04 <andythenorth> there is no hg-hub 10:26:15 <Alberth> ah, I use it elsewhere too 10:26:33 <Alberth> it doesn't go well together with hg though, you get confused a lot 10:30:15 <Wolf01> I think we will need to split the vehicle pool, or at least filter it in future, having RVs and trams with multiple types will be a mess 10:30:50 <andythenorth> are helicopters and ‘normal’ planes split? 10:31:35 <Wolf01> No 10:31:54 <Wolf01> Filtering is preferred 10:31:59 <Alberth> railtype gets added at line 90 10:32:21 <andythenorth> ach yup, thanks 10:32:29 <Alberth> yw 10:32:57 <andythenorth> string magic? 10:33:11 <Alberth> no, regular production rules 10:33:40 <andythenorth> interesting structures 10:33:52 <Alberth> the p_* functions are parser functions, and the doc string is the production rule 10:34:24 * andythenorth wikipedia 10:34:26 <Alberth> "main_block" is one of the long list alternatives 10:34:35 <andythenorth> no comp sci degree for andythenorth :P 10:35:04 <andythenorth> otoh, I did study chomsky a bit 10:35:16 <Alberth> oh, you're an expert :p 10:35:56 <Alberth> the scanner processes the text of the input file, and splits it into tokens 10:36:27 <Alberth> ie the token stuff in tokens.py 10:36:56 <Alberth> a token is called a terminal 10:37:04 <andythenorth> I did one course in philosophy of language, chomsky was 1 lecture :P 10:37:08 <andythenorth> ‘expert' 10:37:20 <Alberth> the parser builds a tree from terminals 10:37:47 <Alberth> where each level in the tree is a non-terminal, an intermediate node with a name like "main_block" 10:38:10 <Alberth> the production rules are descriptions of the sub-trees 10:39:14 <Alberth> this way the computer finds the same hierarchical structure you believe to exist in eg nml code 10:39:50 <andythenorth> interesting 10:40:17 <Alberth> I graduated in compiler construction :p 10:40:55 <Alberth> expressions are easiest to understand probably 10:41:13 <Alberth> and there are plenty of toy calculator examples :p 10:41:32 <Alberth> eg at the PLY home page 10:41:46 <Alberth> in the documentation, used to explain how PLY works 10:42:32 <andythenorth> fundamentally, it’s substituting one set of known symbols for another? 10:42:43 <andythenorth> and there’s syntax validation 10:42:45 <andythenorth> ?? 10:44:04 <Alberth> at the bottom level, the parser takes all production rules with only terminals, and matches one of them onto the first N terminals 10:44:42 <Alberth> with that match, it has created 1 level of the tree. It replaces the sequence of terminals with the matched non-terminal 10:45:12 <Alberth> then the game starts again, but now you get addition production rules that could match on the first non-terminal 10:45:18 <andythenorth> is this top-down parsing? 10:45:44 <Alberth> not necessarily, it depends on how smart the rule matcher is 10:46:05 * andythenorth is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parse_tree 10:46:17 <Wolf01> \o/ loaded and allocated the first NRT from grf 10:46:30 <Alberth> a stupid rule matcher is indeed top-down, where you always take the first terminal, and then decide which way to go 10:46:36 <Wolf01> No props at the moment, just the label 10:46:41 <andythenorth> should probably look here instead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_syntax_tree 10:46:44 <andythenorth> Wolf01: \o/ 10:46:45 <andythenorth> :) 10:46:52 <Alberth> it's a start wolf! 10:47:31 <Alberth> a smarter rule matcher can skip some stuff, and do eg bottom up parsing, with an algorithm like LALR(1) 10:47:57 <Alberth> a parse tree is literally the tree that I described 10:48:26 <andythenorth> :) 10:48:48 <Alberth> an abstract syntax tree is a reduced version of that, eg [ 1, 2, 3 ] becomes a list of 3 numbers, you don't need the [ ] , and while space 10:49:03 <Alberth> *white 10:49:22 <Alberth> which is commonly know as AST 10:49:36 * andythenorth now understands something more about grfcodec 10:49:57 <Alberth> the p_* functions do the parse tree -> AST conversion 10:50:21 <Alberth> you can see them picking the terminals and non-terminals with interesting information only 10:50:47 <andythenorth> and once we have the tree, outputting to some other format is relatively trivial? 10:50:51 <andythenorth> it’s just printing :P 10:51:05 <Alberth> template stuff, just like you do 10:51:33 <Alberth> usually though, there is a check step, and perhaps a conversion step in-between 10:51:45 <Alberth> check step is usually the most effort 10:51:51 <Wolf01> Oh, now I understand what are braces used for in cases... 10:52:22 <andythenorth> turns out I wrote parsers, years ago, by accident, with no theory 10:52:24 <andythenorth> badly 10:52:47 <Alberth> haha, I invented them too :) 10:53:20 <andythenorth> mine would have been string splits, then scanning 10:53:46 <andythenorth> but then we got xml support in flash, and everything was ok 10:53:47 <andythenorth> not :P 10:54:02 <Alberth> simplest is top-down parsing, where you go from left to right 10:54:22 <Alberth> trouble is that sometimes your language is more complicated than what top-down can handle 10:54:33 <Alberth> and there you start making hacks :p 10:54:50 <andythenorth> hacks never scale 10:54:56 <andythenorth> except for php 10:55:12 <Alberth> :D 10:55:25 <Alberth> non-hacky php is 0 size? :p 10:55:36 <andythenorth> the PHP inventor is quite interesting, he’s approximately about my standard at actual programming :P 10:55:51 <andythenorth> and doesn’t care 10:57:07 <Alberth> improving at programming does take time and effort, so maybe he has other priorities 10:57:27 <Alberth> what scares me more is that a zillion people use the language even today 10:57:35 <Alberth> knowing it's crappy 10:57:37 <andythenorth> nah, actually he’s a proper programmer, I am being rude :) 10:58:35 <Wolf01> Btw andy, would it be possible to have a newgrf with something more useful than speed limit and acceleration model props? 10:58:47 <Alberth> tbh I wouldn't be surprised if someone could pull that off, the php language isn't very well designed 10:58:50 <Wolf01> Maybe an alternate build menu name 10:59:00 <Wolf01> Just to see if it works 10:59:44 <Alberth> but a proper design is not the primary problem of most people, clearly :p 10:59:53 <andythenorth> Wolf01: in the NRT, right? Not vehicles? (just checking) 11:00:13 <Wolf01> In NRT 11:00:26 * andythenorth explores 11:00:39 <Alberth> back to work :p 11:00:54 <andythenorth> Wolf01: do you have a way to build and run nmlc? 11:00:59 <Wolf01> Nope 11:01:06 <andythenorth> otherwise you are dependent on me uploading a grf somewhere :P 11:01:16 <andythenorth> ‘nml-as-a-web-service’ is needed 11:01:18 <andythenorth> :P 11:01:22 <Wolf01> Yup 11:01:33 <Wolf01> Lets start doing something with PHP 11:01:34 <Wolf01> ;) 11:02:07 <andythenorth> Wolf01: give me 5-10 mins, I’ll figure out what’s needed 11:02:18 <andythenorth> I never wrote a railtype grf, and I am copying from there, so need to read spec 11:03:41 <Wolf01> prop 0x0A 11:04:25 <Wolf01> One between 0x09 and 0x0B should be enough to show a change 11:05:38 <Wolf01> At least if it tries to change one of the base road types 11:06:11 <Wolf01> Because if it adds a new one, I'm not seeing it 11:09:04 <andythenorth> Wolf01: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8109/example_roadtype.grf 11:09:18 <andythenorth> I haven’t decompiled that with grfcodec to check the properties are set 11:09:22 <andythenorth> but it compiles ok 11:09:28 *** keoz has quit IRC 11:09:30 <andythenorth> should set the name 11:10:54 <Alberth> :O silversurferz cars now also seems to include tramz: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1177004#p1177004 11:12:56 <andythenorth> how rare 11:13:04 <andythenorth> someone should make tramz 11:15:27 <Wolf01> Ok, it loads but no change 11:16:01 <Wolf01> Did you change 0x1B? 11:16:23 <Wolf01> Because it says that it what is loaded 11:18:25 <Wolf01> I don't think I have a way to check that at the moment 11:21:08 <Wolf01> case 0x1B: // Name of roadtype (overridden by prop 09 for grf ver < 8) <- also 11:25:22 <Wolf01> I committed the current work, I'll try to merge all the branches in trunk now, so you could be able to pull 11:26:19 <andythenorth> cool 11:33:12 <Wolf01> Slow github is slow 11:39:26 <Wolf01> I'll retry in some hours, github doesn't love me 11:39:58 <Wolf01> If you want to try with grfs just clone locally my dev branch 11:41:39 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 11:59:52 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:01:52 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 12:20:20 <andythenorth> Wolf01: back - was afk :) 12:20:25 <andythenorth> got family here 12:21:41 <Wolf01> Nothing changed yet 12:22:21 <andythenorth> ok 12:23:03 <Wolf01> But I load all the props, so if you want to give a try with different grf stuff you can use my dev branch 12:25:29 <andythenorth> ok I’ll get a clone shortly 12:25:37 <andythenorth> and make a stronger example grf 12:26:21 <Wolf01> Currently I think only menu/toolbar strings are handled 12:29:11 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 12:29:17 <andythenorth> Wolf01: we could raise the game, and another type :P 12:34:39 * Wolf01 looks to eat something 12:35:09 <andythenorth> cheese 12:41:22 *** Hadrev has joined #openttd 12:41:28 <Hadrev> Hello together 12:43:53 <Alberth> o/ 12:43:56 *** Hadrev has quit IRC 12:45:34 <andythenorth> we should make some frog vehicles and a frog road 12:48:15 <V453000> slime trails? 12:50:25 <andythenorth> frogs eat slugs 12:50:46 <Alberth> oh dear 12:51:12 <V453000> ._. 12:52:48 <frosch123> yay, another fff about f taking over bugs from ottd :p 12:54:33 <andythenorth> it’s nice 12:54:46 <andythenorth> especially the geometry stuff for trains 12:55:10 <frosch123> https://eu2.factorio.com/assets/img/blog/fff-158-rails-work-in-progress-preview.jpg <- check the distance between the two rails 12:55:21 <frosch123> as it is distorted in various directions :) 12:55:24 <NGC3982> I'm really starting to love Factorio. 12:57:08 *** keoz has joined #openttd 13:02:08 <V453000> frosch123: that's the least of an issue XD 13:05:12 <V453000> the worst thing in factorio is probably the way how the rail metal part collides in junctions 13:05:23 <V453000> in openttd it is similar, maybe even worse 13:05:30 <V453000> in factorio it can at least be helped by separating it into layers 13:05:34 <V453000> in openttd you are fucked 13:05:52 <V453000> still doesn't look like real tracks with holes for "the other direction" but hm 13:05:59 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 13:08:26 <Alberth> openttd was designed at 32 pixels 13:09:19 <V453000> ye 13:09:27 <V453000> the system is what matters, not resolution though :P 13:09:28 <V453000> but yeah 13:09:36 <V453000> the high resolution / rendered stuff makes shit apparent 13:11:31 <Wolf01> Good, I'm less hungry now 13:11:37 <NGC3982> What i don't like is Steam being confused on how to take screenshots of it. 13:12:09 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 13:12:50 <V453000> never took screenshots through steam 13:12:55 <V453000> what's the thing? 13:19:51 * andythenorth needs coffee 13:21:25 <andythenorth> Wolf01: what next? 13:22:02 <Wolf01> Trying to make it set the catenary bit 13:22:21 <Wolf01> Powered vs unpowered light rail 13:23:17 <andythenorth> you want the test grf to set that also? 13:23:20 <andythenorth> or to have two types? 13:23:46 <NGC3982> V453000: It's normally easy to add non-Steam games to Steam. For me, it's usefull for screenshots. 13:23:51 <NGC3982> http://skarmdump.henjoh.se/ 13:23:59 <Wolf01> Also 2 types would be cool, but for now let's modify the base type 13:24:16 <V453000> hm 13:24:18 <Wolf01> I don't know if the game could handle a new type as is 13:39:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 13:44:46 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 13:44:51 <Wolf01> Merge don't work with git, stuck at getting revision range 13:45:14 <Wolf01> I'll try to do that manually 13:45:32 <V453000> we use merge with git 13:45:53 <Wolf01> I'm not able to use git, so I'm using svn over git 13:45:57 <andythenorth> Wolf01: you merging the branches? 13:46:10 <Wolf01> Yes 13:47:07 <andythenorth> I’ll clone your repo 13:47:10 <andythenorth> give me a couple of mins 13:47:21 <andythenorth> or you can merge through the github UI, but meh to that 13:49:00 <Wolf01> I tried with that, but I want more control 13:49:00 <andythenorth> Wolf01: give me push rights on your repo? o_O https://github.com/Wolfolo/NotRoadTypes 13:49:23 <andythenorth> I’ll probably break stuff, but it’s git, it will be fine :P 13:49:41 <Wolf01> Or we could just merge in yours 13:50:11 <Wolf01> But some things need to be changed as the 2 branches aren't compatible 13:50:19 <andythenorth> I don’t know how to merge from remote fork using git in shell 13:50:25 <andythenorth> cba to learn today 13:50:42 <andythenorth> just waiting for download of your repo 13:51:01 <Wolf01> Tortoise just crashed 13:53:34 <Wolf01> Ok, with manual range it works 13:54:22 <andythenorth> what are the .vcxproj files? 13:54:51 <Wolf01> Rebuilt projects for visual studio 13:54:58 <Wolf01> As I added some files 13:56:10 <andythenorth> 100% conflicts for all of those :) 13:56:22 <andythenorth> I will ignore them as I don’t know what to do with them 13:56:41 <andythenorth> so road_gui.cpp looks like it needs manual merge? Functions are different 13:56:49 <Wolf01> Yes 13:57:15 <andythenorth> and road_gui.h is just a one line declaration needs changed / decided which to take 13:57:44 <Wolf01> The commit is failing :E 13:57:50 <andythenorth> message? 13:57:59 <Wolf01> It says I have to update first... I already done that 13:58:11 <Wolf01> Also that "File COPY operations are only supported in the same branch" 13:58:16 <andythenorth> interesting 13:58:35 <andythenorth> I just did a straight branch merge dev <- gui 13:58:51 <andythenorth> git co dev, git merge gui 13:59:01 <andythenorth> then resolve the conflicts 14:00:18 <Wolf01> Oh... it seem that the commit is trying to copy an added file from the other branch 14:00:29 <Wolf01> Which isn't updated o_O 14:01:43 <Wolf01> I bet github is doing chinese tortures with the svn clone 14:02:29 <Wolf01> I can't even update the dev branch 14:15:32 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest729 14:15:33 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 14:19:00 <Wolf01> I should try to define a good function for the tram widget, if no tram is loaded it should gray out and not assert on dropdown length 14:20:34 *** Guest729 has quit IRC 14:20:49 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:24:56 <andythenorth> railtypes has similar for if there are no valid vehicles yet 14:24:59 <andythenorth> iirc 14:25:08 <andythenorth> you have to scan the vehicle pool or something 14:25:20 <Wolf01> this->SetWidgetDisabledState(WID_TN_LTRAILS, !CanBuildVehicleInfrastructure(VEH_TRAM)); <- no effect, road and ltrail have the same key :( 14:25:58 <Wolf01> It must check for the e->info.misc_flags 14:26:29 <Wolf01> FOR_ALL_ENGINES_OF_TYPE(e, VEH_ROAD) { if (!HasBit(e->info.misc_flags, EF_ROAD_TRAM)) continue; } 14:29:29 *** lastmikoi has left #openttd 14:31:41 <Wolf01> What if I split VEH_ROAD and VEH_TRAM? 14:33:35 <andythenorth> I wondered about that 14:33:39 *** lastmikoi has joined #openttd 14:33:58 <andythenorth> dunno if it’s necessary though 14:34:16 <Wolf01> It would allow me to perform an additional check 14:40:31 <Wolf01> I think we could just use the classic gui for now, as the split needs more work to be bug-free 14:43:09 <andythenorth> keep the branches separate? 14:43:13 <Wolf01> Yes 14:43:18 <andythenorth> seems wise 14:43:19 *** Lejving_ is now known as Lejving 14:43:39 <Wolf01> One is just for gui tampering, not newgrf and stuff 14:47:36 <Wolf01> Ok, don't ever consider to split VEH_ROAD and VEH_TRAM 14:50:48 <Wolf01> The problem is that trams seem to have been added in a hurry, or just to not copy/put conditions everywhere in the whole road handling 14:51:34 <Wolf01> Btw, I'll continue with catenary 15:03:50 <Wolf01> return HasBit(GetRoadTypeInfo(roadtype)->powered_roadtypes, RoadTypeToRoadTypes(roadtype)); ???? 15:08:29 <andythenorth> trams added in a hurry <- that was the sense I got from reading tram code 15:08:42 <andythenorth> it’s very “just make it work” afaict :) 15:09:36 <Wolf01> I think I couldn't use powered roadtypes, or maybe I set those in the wrong way 15:09:59 <Wolf01> There should alway be catenary, also on roads with the current setting 15:15:17 <Wolf01> For rails, the catenary is a flag 15:15:21 <Wolf01> I could copy that 15:18:32 <Wolf01> Ok, added catenary to tram 15:19:11 <Wolf01> Now I need a grf wich disables catenary, or I could disable it again and a grf could enable it 15:20:05 <Wolf01> prop 0x10 bit 7 set 15:20:38 * Wolf01 goes to play with water 15:23:24 <Wolf01> andythenorth, committed if you vant to give it a try 15:23:30 <Wolf01> *want 15:25:57 *** seatsea has joined #openttd 15:25:58 * andythenorth compiles 16:02:03 <andythenorth> hmm, need to extend nmlc some more 16:19:06 <Wolf01> Did you succeed on enabling catenary? 16:49:30 <andythenorth> nah not yet 16:49:55 <andythenorth> will come back to it later though - just needs some functions added 16:49:59 * andythenorth biab 16:51:31 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:51:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:51:56 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:15:16 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 17:35:45 *** supermop has joined #openttd 17:39:42 *** aard has joined #openttd 17:40:40 <supermop> yo 17:43:13 <andythenorth> lo supermop 17:43:29 <supermop> sv on? 17:48:04 <andythenorth> needs moved to the nightly server 17:48:07 <andythenorth> I’ve got a save 17:48:11 <andythenorth> I am cooking right now though :P 17:49:37 <supermop> i might get some pho 17:49:42 <supermop> chilly day here 17:57:35 <andythenorth> hmm 17:57:56 <andythenorth> does NRT get the ability to forbid level crossings as a newgrf property? Same as railtypes? 17:57:58 <andythenorth> frosch123: ^ 17:58:02 <andythenorth> might be a case for that? 18:01:16 <andythenorth> Wolf01: again, haven’t decompiled to test this, but it compiles with the catenary flag set http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8110/example_roadtype.grf 18:01:36 <andythenorth> doesn’t show catenary in my build of ottd though 18:02:50 *** Gja has joined #openttd 18:05:07 <andythenorth> nor is console printing that prop 0x10 bit 7 is set 18:05:12 <andythenorth> prints some other stuff ;) 18:10:09 *** keoz has quit IRC 18:15:44 *** Samu has joined #openttd 18:19:42 *** NekoMaster has joined #openttd 18:20:14 <NekoMaster> Well if its not one thing its another when I try to get things done myself... Its like the universe doesn't want me to mod OpenTTD 18:21:04 <andythenorth> this is programming 18:21:09 <andythenorth> it’s how it goes ;) 18:21:19 <NekoMaster> This time its not programing issues >_> 18:21:54 <NekoMaster> Now GIMP doesnt want to let me do anything, so I can't make new sprites or set up sprite sheets 18:23:19 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd 18:25:51 <NekoMaster> GIMP wont let me cut, paste, delete, or draw... and everything was working fine last night when I made a new sprite 18:26:51 <andythenorth> can’t help with gimp 18:27:05 <NekoMaster> I dunno any other image editor that has pallet support 18:27:11 <andythenorth> what happens if you open a completely new document? 18:27:19 <NekoMaster> Still the same thing 18:27:32 <andythenorth> if you were asking about photoshop, I would say you’d toggled a specific mode 18:27:35 <NekoMaster> Make a new image in GIMP, be it RGB or Indexed 18:27:43 <NekoMaster> I can't afford photoshop 18:27:43 <andythenorth> there are various modes in photoshop that have that behaviour 18:27:57 <andythenorth> my point is that gimp is a photoshop clone 18:28:02 <NekoMaster> I know 18:28:02 <andythenorth> it might have a similar behaviour 18:28:15 <andythenorth> but usually they apply to each document, not the whole app 18:28:18 <NekoMaster> Though I don't remember doing anything special last night when I finished up 18:28:29 <andythenorth> usually triggered by pressing a key, like ‘q’ for quick mask or so 18:28:30 <NekoMaster> Also I dunno how to clear out all of gimps settings 18:30:39 <NekoMaster> ok well i just had to go into the preferances and reset the tool settings to defaults 18:30:43 <NekoMaster> and now I can cut and paste and edit 18:30:45 <NekoMaster> : I 18:30:52 <andythenorth> you toggled some tool mode by accident 18:30:54 <andythenorth> dunno what 18:31:21 <NekoMaster> I wouldn't know either 18:31:32 <NekoMaster> then again my left hand has a tendancy to click/hit things randomly 18:31:37 <andythenorth> NekoMaster: the flipping thing 18:31:48 <andythenorth> how long are your sprites (in 8/8 units)? 18:31:50 <NekoMaster> Anyways I think I have it back to normal now 18:32:03 <NekoMaster> My sprites vary from 6/8 to 9/8 at hte moment 18:32:23 <andythenorth> and have you set the length appropriately in the vehicle props? 18:32:24 <NekoMaster> In other news, I dunno how to get a 9/8 sprite to work properly without clipping into things in front 18:32:34 <NekoMaster> NML will only let me set a max length of 8 18:32:45 <andythenorth> 8/8 is the maximum length 18:32:53 <NekoMaster> How is longer trains done? 18:32:56 <andythenorth> you have to break the vehicle into parts, like Iron Horse and CETS do it 18:33:03 <andythenorth> which has some…side effects 18:33:11 <NekoMaster> But NARS has some longer stuff thats not broken up 18:33:42 <andythenorth> must be multi-unit 18:33:45 <NekoMaster> I was thining that perhaps an invisable part could be added 18:33:53 <NekoMaster> but I dunno how to make an articulated vehicle yet 18:33:56 <andythenorth> yes, that’s how Iron Horse and CETs do it 18:34:05 <andythenorth> when I say ‘broken’ up, I don’t mean the sprites ;) 18:34:27 <andythenorth> so a 9/8 vehicle might be 2/8 + 5/8 + 2/8 18:34:28 <andythenorth> or so 18:34:33 <NekoMaster> I was thinking that my 9/8 Turbine sprite would have a 9/8 Sprite which will over hang (but code it as 8/8, and have a 1/8 invisable part in the end to space it out) 18:34:46 <andythenorth> if you add 1/8 you’ll have a nightmare with offsets 18:34:54 <NekoMaster> Hmm 18:34:58 <andythenorth> you are better with 3 vehicles 18:35:08 <andythenorth> ask Eddi|zuHause for advice ;) 18:35:13 <NekoMaster> Then again, does making Articulated vehicles apply to Steam engines as well? 18:35:20 <andythenorth> yes 18:35:21 <NekoMaster> because I plan to add steamers eventually with tenders 18:35:28 <andythenorth> articulated is not hard 18:35:36 <frosch123> andythenorth: sure, but hardly important for a start :) 18:36:45 <NekoMaster> I imagine the articulated code can go into the same NML file with your vehicles? 18:36:46 <andythenorth> frosch123: I am at the point of the nml properties 18:36:49 <andythenorth> NekoMaster: iron-horse.nml 18:36:52 <andythenorth> oops 18:36:57 <andythenorth> NekoMaster: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8111/iron-horse.nml 18:37:06 <NekoMaster> I like keeping my vehicle NML stuff in one file for each engine 18:37:09 <andythenorth> yes 18:37:27 <andythenorth> but for a steam engine with tender, your engine is at least 2 vehicles 18:37:36 <andythenorth> or more if you have a long one, or something weird like a garratt 18:37:57 <andythenorth> you can do the articulated sub-vehicles all in one file 18:38:00 <NekoMaster> The weirdest I'll have is a Mallet type AC6 Cab-Forward 18:38:26 <andythenorth> I don’t know if Iron Horse code is useful, but eh 18:38:29 <NekoMaster> Only problem is that I've only gotten this far after someone gave me some NML to work with 18:38:34 <andythenorth> quite impressed you’ve got this far, you should keep going 18:38:46 <andythenorth> many people don’t get this far 18:38:50 <NekoMaster> Sylf basically started the code for me, and I've just been recycling 18:39:13 <NekoMaster> If it wasn't for sylf I wouldn't have gotten this far 18:39:37 <andythenorth> you will learn skills from this, even if coding isn’t your thing 18:39:54 <NekoMaster> once I understand things I don't mind coding 18:40:04 <NekoMaster> my major issue is that its so hard to understand anything 18:40:28 <andythenorth> ‘life' 18:40:43 <NekoMaster> Lol 18:40:54 <andythenorth> do you want to figure out the flipping thing, or is your focus on something else right now? 18:41:19 <NekoMaster> Well it would be nice to figure out how to make my Westing House Bluegoose 9/8 sprite work properly 18:41:30 <NekoMaster> I'm not too worried about flipping for now 18:42:03 <andythenorth> learn how to make an articulated vehicle in that case? 18:42:07 <NekoMaster> Yes 18:42:10 <NekoMaster> that would be helpful 18:42:24 <NekoMaster> I'll need the knowledge for bigger things as well 18:42:34 <NekoMaster> Like the EP4 Little Joe and Great northern W1 18:42:38 <NekoMaster> both are bigger then 8/8 18:42:42 <andythenorth> L190 in iron-horse.nml shows you a switch that handles the articulated callback 18:43:09 <andythenorth> and L423 shows you where the callback is added to the graphics block 18:43:22 <andythenorth> the formatting in the file is horrible, that code is all generated, not written by hand 18:43:23 <NekoMaster> I opened up ironhorse.nml and I can't find l190 18:43:37 <andythenorth> L190 18:43:59 <andythenorth> does notepad tell you the line number you’re on? 18:44:02 <NekoMaster> yeah I searched up L190 and Notepad++ can't find it 18:44:06 <NekoMaster> or you mean Line 190? 18:44:17 <andythenorth> yair 18:44:22 <NekoMaster> derp 18:44:27 <andythenorth> some editors have ‘jump to line #' 18:45:04 <NekoMaster> yeah, Notepad++ has "Go to..." and you can punch in the line number 18:45:52 <NekoMaster> For me to really understand how to get this working, it might be nice if I could have a copy of the Chaplins graphics and vehicle nmls 18:47:05 <andythenorth> the graphics are in here http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository 18:47:36 <andythenorth> actually Chaplin is a tank engine, and Iron Horse *always* uses 3 parts for every vehicle even if it’s not longer than 8/8 18:47:43 <andythenorth> because that’s easier to code 18:47:44 <NekoMaster> ahh 18:47:55 <NekoMaster> Are there any vehicles with multiple visable parts? 18:47:56 <andythenorth> but you should be able to figure out the articulated switch 18:47:59 <andythenorth> yes 18:48:08 <NekoMaster> also all the code is in python 18:48:24 <andythenorth> line 2403 - big bertha 18:48:27 <andythenorth> tender engine 18:49:00 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> doesn’t show catenary in my build of ottd though <-I think the flag is wrong, it loads "1" instead of "64" 18:49:25 <Wolf01> At least if I understand how this works 18:50:10 <Wolf01> But I can use another enum just for grf, maybe it's better 18:50:49 * andythenorth biab - eating 18:52:52 <Wolf01> Oh, I didn't merged the part where I used it to change even the GB() function, I can put any value... so 0 18:54:35 <Wolf01> Ok, it seem to work 19:08:04 <NekoMaster> Hmm 19:08:20 <NekoMaster> How would one code a railslug for OPenTTD? 19:08:38 <NekoMaster> make a no-powered engine that provides traction when connected to a diesel? 19:09:37 <andythenorth> complicated switches 19:09:40 <andythenorth> it could be done 19:09:51 <NekoMaster> Is there an easy way to do it? 19:10:12 <NekoMaster> can an attached car or engine copy the traction of the head end locomotive? 19:10:20 <Wolf01> There wasn't one in nars? 19:10:24 <NekoMaster> Nope 19:10:35 <NekoMaster> Slugs are demened superflouse 19:10:44 <andythenorth> you have to detect the ID of the neighbouring vehicle 19:10:52 <andythenorth> and then adjust the power 19:11:06 <andythenorth> you also need to check the grfid to make sure it’s same grf, not some totally other grf :P 19:11:27 <andythenorth> and if you want to allow it to connect to NARS 2 engines, you’d need to check a couple of grfids 19:11:33 <NekoMaster> yeah 19:11:41 <NekoMaster> i guess I should leave that for now until another time 19:12:01 <NekoMaster> im just going back to setting up sprite sheets... i have a headache now from trying to understand new code 19:14:05 <andythenorth> NekoMaster: leave the slug :) 19:14:15 <andythenorth> if you look in iron-horse.nml at cargo_sprinter_switch_graphics_0_1_check_preceding_vehicle_same_id 19:14:28 <andythenorth> you’ll find that there’s a lot of switches that check neighbouring vehicles around there 19:14:33 <andythenorth> but it’s non-trivial 19:14:58 <andythenorth> those are for switching graphics, not power, but same approach would work 19:15:40 <Wolf01> Andy, I don't know how, but would be possible to change props of the second roadtype? 19:16:30 *** NekoMaster has left #openttd 19:18:03 <Wolf01> Also, I committed the fix, so you can try it yourself 19:18:35 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 19:18:40 <Samu> Hi glx I'm on my fx-8150 system again, won't be on the athlon xp 2700+ anytime soon 19:19:54 <Samu> i tried to create a SSE build but openttd crashes 19:20:24 <Samu> the release build crashes, the debug build doesn't crash 19:20:58 <Samu> Unhandled exception at 0x00FD0002 in openttd.exe: 0xC0000005: Access violation executing location 0x00FD0002. 19:21:46 <Samu> > openttd.exe!Vehicle::HandleLoading(bool mode) Line 2156 C++ 19:22:15 <Samu> this->LeaveStation(); 19:22:31 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 19:34:19 <andythenorth> Wolf01: it’s only one roadtype so far :) 19:34:24 <andythenorth> I’ll add another shortly 19:38:40 <andythenorth> bah 19:38:42 <andythenorth> grf isn’t valid 19:39:24 <andythenorth> “attempt to use invalid ID (sprite 80)" 19:46:36 <V453000> was modelling a water tanker and suddenly I bought new headphones for home ._. 19:46:38 <V453000> escalated quickly 19:46:48 <Wolf01> :D 19:51:40 *** Alberth has left #openttd 19:54:39 <andythenorth> V453000: sounds pretty standard 19:54:51 <V453000> happens to you with lego? 19:56:18 <andythenorth> trainers 19:57:52 <V453000> trainers? 19:58:16 <andythenorth> I was just checking email, and then I had to buy these http://cdn3.sarenza.net/static/_img/productsV4/0000122997/MD_0000122997_230621_09.jpg?201510021649 19:58:33 <andythenorth> not actually true, andythenorth never checks email 20:01:28 <V453000> XD 20:02:21 <V453000> yeah ... http://www.tweak.dk/images/gallery/tweak_dk_sennheiser_rs_185_07_front_paa_holder_fullsize_1000px.jpg 20:02:28 <andythenorth> now I have to look for new ones 20:07:09 <V453000> gnight 20:12:31 <andythenorth> oops 20:12:34 * andythenorth bought trainers 20:20:01 <andythenorth> bye 20:20:03 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:55:06 <Samu> Milek7_: hi, i'm testing a server with 240 ais 20:55:31 <Samu> https://www.openttd.org/en/server/101325 21:12:22 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:14:28 *** Progman has joined #openttd 21:18:14 <Milek7_> Samu: how much cpu it uses? 21:35:39 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 21:48:13 <Samu> Milek7_: oops, sorry i was watching tv 21:49:34 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:50:56 <Samu> i'm not sure, it's spiky 21:51:55 <Samu> average 9% 21:52:05 <Samu> spikes to 12.5% 22:01:11 *** lambwich has quit IRC 22:46:01 <Wolf01> 'night 22:46:03 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:53:06 *** Smedles_ has joined #openttd 22:54:26 *** Smedles has quit IRC 22:59:55 <Samu> i had to stop server 23:00:32 <Samu> was already using 21 GB memory, using the hdd too much 23:06:12 *** Samu has quit IRC 23:24:34 *** seatsea has quit IRC 23:39:11 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:43:08 *** aard has quit IRC