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00:00:29 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 00:00:29 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 00:06:37 *** tokai has quit IRC 00:22:41 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 00:31:57 *** dihedral has quit IRC 00:44:26 *** dihedral has joined #openttd 00:58:23 <supermop__> ii wonder if there is enough Al in slag to be worth refining 00:58:52 *** Smedles has quit IRC 01:00:58 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 01:04:41 *** Compu has quit IRC 01:10:42 *** ERRM has joined #openttd 01:11:22 <ERRM> Hola a todos...¿Alguien que entienda español por aquí, que me pueda ayudar, por favor? 01:12:54 <ERRM> Hello... 01:13:07 <Jinassi> ¿Qué necesitas? 01:15:09 <ERRM> Al fin alguien que entiende mi idioma. Disculpa, hermanazo. Tengo un problema con OpenTTD 01:16:39 <ERRM> Verás... recientemente, actualicé de la versión DEMASIADO ARCAICA 0.5.3 RC-1 a la nueva versión 1.6.1. Y he instalado el Open SFX correspondiente a esta versión... 01:17:08 <ERRM> Pero el programa tiene problemas para guardar las partidas y para bajar contenidos. 01:17:43 <Jinassi> ¿Se puede hacer una nueva instalación? ¿Qué sistema operativo tiene? 01:18:09 <ERRM> Windows 8.1 01:19:50 <ERRM> Escuche, también tengo instalado el programa TeamViewer, por si necesita operar mi sistema de manera remota. 01:20:47 <Jinassi> Mi español no es tan bueno para operar un sistema en tu idioma: P 01:21:51 <ERRM> Pero más o menos, qué crees tú podría ser el problema. Si gustas, te mando una instantánea o screenshot del juego para mostrarte cómo luce... 01:22:31 <Jinassi> En los documentos, busque una carpeta denominada OpenTTD. Cambie el nombre de OpenTTD.cfg a OpenTTD-antiguo. Ejecute el juego y se reconstruirá, pruebe a descargar contenido de nuevo. 01:24:21 <Jinassi> Usted va a cambiar el nombre de la misma para la custodia, por lo que todavía se puede utilizar más tarde. La reconstrucción de ese archivo restablecerá el juego y podrás volver a descargarlo. 01:25:32 <ERRM> Hice los cambios y ahora suena la música de intro (antes no lo hacía). Veré si puedo guardar el juego. 01:27:17 <ERRM> Puede descargar contenido, pero sigue el problema de que no quiere guardar. 01:28:51 <Jinassi> ¿No puedes guardar el juego o el contenido? 01:29:40 <ERRM> El juego. Es decir, genero una nueva partida. Intento guardar y me aparece un cuadro rojo que me informa que no puede guardar en el archivo. 01:30:06 <Jinassi> Una vez que los descargas, para sonidos, música o gráficos, tienes que configurarlos en opciones. 01:30:45 <Jinassi> ¿Eso es todo lo que dice? 01:32:21 <Jinassi> ¿Puedes descargar un archivo .zip desde el sitio web oficial, por favor? Descomprimirlo en el escritorio y ejecutarlo desde allí. Veamos lo que hace. 01:33:24 <ERRM> Tengo el original. 01:33:39 <ERRM> El Transport Tycoon DeLuxe original de 1994. 01:34:47 <ERRM> Sale un mensaje que me dice "Error guardando partida. No se puede escribir en el archivo" 01:35:27 <Jinassi> Entiendo. Esto ya no es Transport Tycoon. En el 2004 fue ingeniería inversa. Todavía tiene similitudes. 01:36:29 <ERRM> ¿Será el Windows 8.1 que, chico? 01:36:44 <ERRM> ¿Que uso? 01:38:14 <Jinassi> Si 01:38:22 <ERRM> Fíjate que incluso descargué un mapa de alturas y lo carga perfectamente, pero igualito no me agarra el guardado. 01:39:58 <ERRM> Hace unos pocos años, yo actualicé esa misma versión 0.5.3 a otra un poc más avanzada (que se parece un poco en características a esta versión 1.6.1). Y no me dió problemas. Usaba entonces Windows XP SP3 01:40:57 <Jinassi> Hm, extraño. 01:43:13 <ERRM> Extraño, ciertamente. Obviamente, una versión más avanzada de este sistema operativo debería correr este juego sin problemas. Es más, hasta Windows 7 debería agarrarlo. 01:43:49 <Jinassi> ¿Fue OpenTTD o una actualización para Transport Tycoon o TDDpatch? Este es el resultado de todos ellos. Puede intentar ejecutar el programa en modo de compatibilidad para Windows XP o intentar descargar el programa más reciente estable de www.openttd.org. 01:44:05 <ERRM> Entonces, si este problema sucede en Windows 8.1, ni me imagino lo que pasará si se corre em Windows 10 01:45:13 <ERRM> Es OpenTTD. 01:45:37 <Jinassi> Es cierto que OpenTTD más reciente no tiene problemas ejecutándose desde Windows XP a Windows 10. Para programas antiguos, tiene que usar el modo de compatibilidad. 01:45:49 <ERRM> Estoy actualizando de 0.5.3 Release Candidate Número Uno(RC-1) a 1.6.1. 01:46:09 <Jinassi> wow 01:47:23 <ERRM> Y te digo que la versión RC ya me cansa. No me canso de exprimir compañías. Pero no me gusta tener que poner estaciones de autobuses al final d euna calle ni que pueda usar el zoom... 01:47:23 <Jinassi> Sería mejor quitar las instalaciones anteriores e instalar las más recientes después. Guarde todo lo que quiera guardar y, a continuación, quite el antiguo. 01:48:34 <Jinassi> ¿Y sobre multijugador, lo has probado todavía? Hay un montón de gente jugando este juego en línea, todos los días! 01:49:37 <ERRM> Oye no... siempre he jugado solo. Es decir, contra la PC. Pero sería genial... Lo que pasa es que uso es internet de pendrive movistar. 01:50:58 <Jinassi> No hay problema, el juego sólo utiliza un ancho de banda muy pequeño. El archivo más grande es cuando usted está descargando el mapa para unirse. 01:51:26 <ERRM> Ahh... 01:53:08 <ERRM> Bueno. habrái que intentarlo. Pero primero debo resolver este problemita del guardado. Agradezco mucho la ayuda, Jinassi. 01:54:02 <ERRM> Ese juego lo he desinstalado, instalado, vuelto a instalar y nada. Pero bueno... 01:54:17 <ERRM> Vamos a ver. Mil gracias, Jinassi. 01:56:51 <Jinassi> ¿Ha eliminado o cambiado el nombre de OpenTTD.cfg en los documentos? 01:58:33 <Jinassi> voy a tener teamviewer 02:12:17 <ERRM> Así es. Pero de nada me vale. Los problemas continúan. 02:13:35 <Jinassi> Puedo tratar de ayudar remotamente, no puedo prometer nada. 02:14:42 <ERRM> Juego bien. Pero no puedo guardar. Ya cambié el nombre del archivo que me dijo, el openttd.dfg, que ahora se llama openttd-antiguo.cfg 02:15:03 <ERRM> Juego bien. Pero no puedo guardar. Ya cambié el nombre del archivo que me dijo, el openttd.cfg, que ahora se llama openttd-antiguo.cfg 02:15:25 <Jinassi> ¿El juego hizo uno nuevo? 02:16:08 <ERRM> Estoy jugando multijugador. Pero no hay nadie conectado. Cree una partida. 02:17:54 <ERRM> Por si desea meterse, acá le dejo los datos de mi teamviewer: 885 582 082 password es u175fa 02:21:29 <ERRM> se va a meter? 02:38:33 *** BluesInTheNet has quit IRC 02:44:01 *** bwn has quit IRC 02:51:49 *** bwn has joined #openttd 03:00:08 *** _dp_ has quit IRC 03:08:01 *** ERRM has quit IRC 03:12:00 *** Portugal has joined #openttd 03:12:05 <Portugal> hi all 03:12:09 <Portugal> :D 03:27:46 *** Portugal has quit IRC 03:31:48 *** qwebirc64054 has joined #openttd 03:31:50 *** qwebirc64054 has quit IRC 03:37:37 *** GriffinOneTwo_ has joined #openttd 03:39:43 <GriffinOneTwo_> join #openttdcoop 03:42:09 *** glx has quit IRC 03:53:25 *** Compu has joined #openttd 04:04:22 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 05:46:32 *** _Fatmice_ has joined #openttd 05:52:01 *** Fatmice has quit IRC 06:22:20 *** bwn has quit IRC 06:26:30 *** bwn has joined #openttd 06:33:50 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:40:45 *** sla_ro|master2 has joined #openttd 06:47:00 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 07:10:30 *** Jinassi has quit IRC 07:12:12 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 07:34:29 *** Guest7 has quit IRC 07:38:27 *** FR^2 has joined #openttd 07:38:55 *** FR^2 is now known as Guest237 07:40:12 *** Flygon has quit IRC 07:43:19 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 07:50:12 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:01:05 <andythenorth> o/ 08:04:00 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 08:12:26 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:22:16 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 08:22:16 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 08:39:58 <andythenorth> hmm 08:45:32 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 08:46:40 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 08:50:34 <Alberth> o/ 08:57:09 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 09:10:26 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#forest 09:10:36 <andythenorth> somehow farm supplies don’t fit forests 09:12:07 <andythenorth> add ‘logging supplies’? 09:12:09 <andythenorth> o_O 09:23:27 <Alberth> forests prefer no logging :p 09:23:53 <Alberth> maybe "farm" is the wrong word? 09:24:35 <Alberth> perhaps "agriculture" but it's too long, and perhaps spelled wrong :) 09:24:49 <andythenorth> yeah :) 09:25:14 <andythenorth> I could remove the supplies mechanic from logging, but that’s….not justified :) 09:25:37 <Alberth> indeed 09:25:52 <andythenorth> many versions ago, forest needed engineering supplies 09:25:55 <andythenorth> but that was strange also 09:26:35 <Alberth> well, if you see how people move log from eg hills, it does involves engineering :) 09:26:40 <V453000> yo huminz 09:26:50 <Alberth> but in general, yes, it's a bit strange as well. 09:26:57 <Alberth> yo Vz 09:27:14 <V453000> lately I have been getting a lot of repots that people who play with any of my 32bpp things get a lot of lag and shit 09:27:24 <V453000> some say that it only happens when they combine it with zbase 09:27:27 <V453000> but for me it's fine 09:27:38 <V453000> WTF is that these people have some high end machines 09:27:46 <V453000> what could be the bottleneck? 09:27:59 <Alberth> high end as in new video cards? 09:28:06 <andythenorth> every time I upgrade my computer, OpenTTD performance gets worse 09:28:08 <Alberth> where the entire GPU is not used at all? 09:28:09 <andythenorth> but that’s 8bpp 09:29:05 <Alberth> moving around the screen isn't as smooth as it used to be, but I run a development build. I think it's the switch to 32bpp that is the default now 09:29:27 <andythenorth> V453000 any details on what kind of lag it is? 09:30:01 <Alberth> "plant supplies" ? 09:30:03 <andythenorth> also how does palette cycle animation work with 32bpp? Is it same? 09:30:22 <V453000> idk they say like 2fps when they zoom out 09:30:25 <Alberth> without palette? nah, won't work :p 09:30:33 <V453000> high end as in processors 09:30:41 <Rubidium> V453000: sound to me like the railways in the UK. In the past your drive from London to the north in say 2 hours, but they increased the performance of that route... so now you can get there in 2:15 (but every 15 minutes instead of every 2 hours) 09:30:48 <V453000> :D 09:31:04 <Alberth> it's the bandwidth of the CPU-GPU likely 09:31:18 <V453000> sounds weird 09:31:26 <V453000> but it makes me consider adding 8bpp x4 sprites 09:31:50 <andythenorth> ask them if they have ‘full animation’ on, and if turning it off helps 09:32:13 <Alberth> modern PCs have big fast GPUs on their video card to render stuff 09:32:25 <Alberth> modern games all use it 09:32:50 <Alberth> OpenTTD still renders everything with the CPU, and then sends all images to the GPU to display 09:33:08 <Alberth> so OpenTTD needs lots of speed in the transfer to the GPU 09:33:30 <andythenorth> $somebody told me that some of the palette cycling relies on hardware transforms that were dropped 09:33:32 <andythenorth> about 3 years ago 09:33:38 <Rubidium> the main problems are: a) higher resolution; increase sides by factor 2, you have 4 times as much pixels to draw. b) less optimisations for simple blitting, even Windows itself is starting to use 3D techniques to just draw an image. c) as a result old style techniques are not to be used anymore (thus lesser optimised) 09:33:55 <V453000> well yeah but i6700k doesn't sound like a bad cpu 09:34:01 <Alberth> while modern games typically upload one time to the GPU, and then do all rendering at the GPU 09:34:15 <Alberth> no need for big lanes between CPU and GPU 09:34:28 <Alberth> which is also what manufacturers design for 09:34:38 <Rubidium> like in the past your video was completely blitted from the CPU to the GPU, now they just send the compressed video to the GPU which decodes, scales and draws it 09:34:57 <Rubidium> so again, the simple blitting is not needed anymore because what needs to be done fast is done fast 09:34:57 <andythenorth> V453000 THAT IS A TERRIBLE CPU, IT DATES FROM AUGUST 2016, IT’S TOTALLY OUTDATED!!! 09:35:06 <andythenorth> V453000: IT’S NOT “PRO" 09:35:28 <V453000> HAS NO FRUIT ON IT 09:35:33 <Rubidium> after all, a 2CV is a much better car 09:35:33 <V453000> IZ NOT CAT 09:35:53 <V453000> so, is there anything I can tell people to help them ? :D 09:36:03 <V453000> other than "you are fucked" ? 09:36:05 <andythenorth> try turning off full animation, see what happens 09:36:10 <V453000> right 09:36:11 <andythenorth> it’s at least just a toggle 09:36:21 <andythenorth> it works for me, but I am running 8bpp with 32bpp blitter 09:36:33 <andythenorth> with ‘full animation’ on, the game is unplayable for me 09:36:38 <V453000> interesting 09:36:54 <V453000> I never had that issue 09:37:07 <Alberth> andy is willing to swap computers, I am sure :p 09:37:26 <V453000> but that's the thing ... it "just works" for me 09:37:41 <andythenorth> V453000: you don’t have a ‘pro’ operating system :P 09:38:14 <V453000> ._. 09:38:24 <V453000> does that mean osx fucks something for you? 09:38:34 <Rubidium> in any case, the main (graphics) performance issues OpenTTD has are due to the 1990s design and the fact that we need to remain compatible with that in some way or another 09:38:49 <Rubidium> otherwise you're just playing something like p1sim 09:39:02 <V453000> colleague at work was getting a new mouse last week ... Oh I like this mouse ... does it support mac? Ok time to choose another mouse, ... 09:39:52 <Rubidium> only some bluetooth mouses support mac, right? 09:39:59 <Rubidium> the rest doesn't have USB-C connectors 09:40:06 <V453000> idk :D 09:40:16 <V453000> ah to say it properly 09:40:20 <V453000> he is using osx on a normal pc 09:40:26 <V453000> so usb is ok 09:40:36 <V453000> but the software for the mouse usually isn't there 09:46:33 <V453000> how could for example loading zbase AND BRIX together influence it? 09:46:39 <V453000> something apart from 09:46:45 <V453000> "just more 32bpp shit" ? 09:49:06 <andythenorth> V453000 if the mouse didn’t have CF card slot, it probably wasn’t pro 09:49:09 <andythenorth> that would be the problem 09:49:18 <andythenorth> Serious Mac Users Need Serious Slots 09:51:57 *** welshdragon has joined #openttd 09:52:25 *** _Fatmice_ has quit IRC 09:52:28 <V453000> XD 09:57:49 <andythenorth> “Logging Supply Shop” http://www.cjloggingequipment.com/ 10:25:46 *** Gaby_ has joined #openttd 10:37:17 *** welshdragon has quit IRC 10:41:05 *** dP has joined #openttd 10:41:05 *** dP is now known as _dp_ 11:24:21 *** DDR has quit IRC 11:27:40 *** BluesInTheNet has joined #openttd 11:32:38 *** DDR has joined #openttd 11:34:08 *** DDR has quit IRC 11:34:55 *** DDR has joined #openttd 11:39:36 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:49:29 <andythenorth> what can produce food, that isn’t a farm or fishing ground? 11:49:37 <andythenorth> maybe I can remove Farm Supplies from Arctic Basic 11:49:42 <andythenorth> which would be…different 11:52:01 <Alberth> food factories 11:52:25 <Alberth> ports 11:53:09 <Alberth> extra-terrestial launching platforms 11:54:05 <Alberth> restaurant, bakeries 11:54:32 <Alberth> hotel, sort of 11:55:22 <Alberth> all kinds of shops 12:02:57 <andythenorth> hunting grounds? 12:13:06 <Alberth> sure 12:13:59 <Alberth> I do hope you don't need a train for transport :p 12:36:14 *** keoz has joined #openttd 12:44:01 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:03:04 *** roidal_ has joined #openttd 13:09:57 *** roidal has quit IRC 13:18:49 *** Gja has joined #openttd 13:31:30 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:35:04 *** digdug has joined #openttd 13:35:57 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 13:43:18 *** digdug has quit IRC 13:45:27 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:02:21 <andythenorth> Logging Supplies, Forest Supplies, or Lumberjack Supplies? o_O 14:02:34 * andythenorth is going to try it in a test game, what’s the best name? 14:02:38 <andythenorth> icon can be an axe :P 14:02:58 <FLHerne> Forestry Supplies? 14:03:29 <andythenorth> probably 14:03:38 <andythenorth> I think it will make no sense in FIRS world TBH 14:04:00 <andythenorth> there are too many industries which should produce ENSP, FMSP and Forestry Supplies 14:04:04 <andythenorth> but only 2 outputs 14:04:06 <andythenorth> so eh 14:06:17 <andythenorth> also, it’s a bit ‘swallowed a spider to catch the fly' 14:06:18 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_Was_an_Old_Lady_Who_Swallowed_a_Fly 14:06:28 <andythenorth> the problem is that delivering fertiliser to a forest is weird 14:06:35 <andythenorth> I should solve that differently 14:07:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 14:11:17 <Alberth> seeds? 14:11:47 *** Jinassi has joined #openttd 14:24:03 <andythenorth> ‘small trees' 14:24:20 <andythenorth> hmm, Christmas Tree Farm industry? 14:30:27 *** sla_ro|master2 has quit IRC 14:31:38 <Alberth> only with snow :p 14:32:59 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 14:33:43 <andythenorth> ach, farms in arctic: yes / no? 14:34:04 <andythenorth> IRL is ’kind of’; there are farms but arctic regions import the grain they need 14:34:16 <andythenorth> can’t grow enough to be sufficient 14:34:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 14:39:18 <andythenorth> ‘no farms’ :) 14:39:20 * andythenorth tries it 14:53:50 <Alberth> likely farms above snow limit isn't a good idea in reality :) 15:01:54 <Jinassi> How would one limit them? Use the same mechanics as the tree placer? WHere they only grow in rain forests, aka on the lower greener levels? 15:01:55 <Eddi|zuHause> how "arctic" are your arctics? 15:02:38 <Eddi|zuHause> if you think scandinavian countries, maybe try apple plantations instead of wheat farms 15:03:27 <Eddi|zuHause> trees may be a bit sturdier concerning longer stretches of cold and a narrow growth period 15:03:49 <Eddi|zuHause> and also sheep herding 15:05:16 <andythenorth> they are approximately, finland and more northern bits of canada 15:05:34 <andythenorth> Dan had a plan for a more southerly canadian economy, with apples :) 15:06:59 <andythenorth> how could forests be better? 15:07:11 <andythenorth> or to put it another way, why does the lumber mill mechanic suck so much? 15:08:22 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 15:13:50 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 15:13:52 <Alberth> too familiar? 15:15:19 <andythenorth> requires tree planting 15:15:25 <andythenorth> and doesn’t move 15:15:33 <andythenorth> ha, moving industries :) 15:15:42 <andythenorth> that would keep you building routes 15:16:14 <Alberth> it's known as "he my industry closed!" :) 15:16:21 <Eddi|zuHause> lumber mill only works in tropic because it has increased tree growth speed 15:16:32 <andythenorth> ‘all the trees are gone, the lumber mill moved' 15:16:50 <Alberth> it works? I never got it to work reliably 15:17:03 <andythenorth> I tried it a few times, then ignored it 15:17:04 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i never actually tried 15:17:21 <Eddi|zuHause> but it definitely will work less well in temperate or arctic 15:17:26 <Alberth> ok, that explains why it works for you :p 15:18:19 * andythenorth wondering if forest is some special type of industry 15:18:42 <andythenorth> fishing grounds cannot be boosted, they’re unique primaries in FIRS 15:19:03 <andythenorth> forest is neither farm nor mine 15:19:30 <Alberth> time scale is different with forests 15:19:43 <Alberth> unless you got a reaaally big forest 15:20:12 <Alberth> in real time, at least 15:20:25 <andythenorth> I did consider *really big* forests 15:20:35 <Alberth> *real life 15:20:50 <V453000> reel lyef 15:22:44 <andythenorth> forests are never big enough in my game 15:22:48 <andythenorth> they should be sprawling 15:22:52 <andythenorth> but that makes a mess on the map 15:31:02 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 15:51:11 *** glx has joined #openttd 15:51:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 15:55:55 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 15:56:05 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 15:59:01 *** Jinassi has quit IRC 15:59:56 *** Jinassi has joined #openttd 16:11:43 <V453000> andythenorth: if the industry doesn't have to be flat, having it BIG with somewhat random pattern could be pretty amazing actually 16:23:15 *** bwn has quit IRC 16:25:38 <V453000> it kind of even makes sense that a forest would need some big area 16:25:44 <V453000> but I guess that is the case for all industries :D 16:25:49 <V453000> -+ 16:28:19 <Alberth> it doesn't really work in the game, unless you play a crazy size map 16:28:34 <Alberth> but then you get major problems in placement of the industries 16:29:59 <V453000> hm 16:30:52 <Alberth> we lack a proper negotiation about the ground surface between the industry and the game 16:32:15 <andythenorth> is proper problem 16:32:33 <andythenorth> big forest: looks weird if has gaps; but blocks routes if no gaps 16:32:53 <andythenorth> lumber mill is frustratingly close to a good idea, but sucks 16:32:54 <Eddi|zuHause> for spread out industries like that we need some different approach than a rigid shape that is fixed for the entirety of the game 16:32:54 <Alberth> sort of cluster, like farms? 16:33:16 <andythenorth> if lumber mill just planted trees continuously, like farm fields 16:33:28 <Eddi|zuHause> like, if you have a farm, and it plants 90 field tiles around it, you can use 10% of them for something other than fields 16:33:30 <andythenorth> then I could put a sawmill in it :P 16:34:38 <Eddi|zuHause> so you could use 9 of the 90 field tiles to put like a station or roads through 16:35:07 <Eddi|zuHause> (numbers up for debate) 16:35:24 <andythenorth> meanwhile, I could change the forest back to use engineering supplies, not farm supplies 16:35:34 <supermop__> if custom fields can't happen, why not have a hut that plants trees 16:35:35 * andythenorth considers just having one type of supplies :P 16:36:50 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody said you need to have the same sort of supplies for all economies 16:37:19 <andythenorth> nobody did 16:38:07 <andythenorth> the only reason forest has farm supplies is because of http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#lumber_yard 16:38:29 <andythenorth> a long time ago, it seemed weird to have wood go back to the forest to produce more wood 16:38:42 <andythenorth> so it was switched from ENSP to FMSP 16:38:59 <andythenorth> despite that coal -> more coal, via steel chain (and many other similar examples) 16:39:11 *** bwn has joined #openttd 16:41:16 <andythenorth> dedicated ‘logging supplies’ seems all kinds of wrong 16:41:41 <supermop__> im telling you man : chainsaws 16:42:09 <andythenorth> ‘chainsaw supplies' 16:44:31 *** Arveen has quit IRC 16:46:10 *** Guest237 is now known as FR^2 16:49:42 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 17:00:12 <andythenorth> why are supplies? 17:02:15 <Alberth> excuse to get more cargo in the network? 17:02:53 <andythenorth> why not just deliver vehicles, fuel, building materials, spares, food, passengers? 17:02:58 <andythenorth> o_O 17:03:27 <andythenorth> also fertiliser, seeds, explosives, machinery 17:04:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: usually the 3-input-limit for industries 17:04:56 <andythenorth> exactly 17:07:35 <Alberth> it also adds a dynamic element to the industries 17:08:11 <Alberth> although I think most do it for the additional cargo they get 17:10:38 <andythenorth> hmm, if we had graphviz when I made this, I would never had released it :P file:///Users/andy/Documents/OTTD_graphics/FIRS/firs_build/docs/html/economies.html#extreme 17:10:47 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#extreme 17:11:59 <Alberth> ah, let people play :) 17:12:23 <Alberth> they like insanely big maps too :p 17:13:20 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 17:13:49 <supermop_> ok my computer overheated and shut down running nothing but irc client 17:15:03 <andythenorth> and all your viruses 17:15:52 <supermop_> those virii are plenty benign an friendly 17:16:01 <andythenorth> hurgh 17:17:10 <supermop_> really need to get something new so i can work from home christmas to new years 17:17:37 <supermop_> otherwise my boss will make me come into the office 17:18:17 <andythenorth> instead of forest, I could do a log sort 17:18:29 <supermop_> flume? 17:20:37 <andythenorth> logs come in from the forest and are sorted for pulp / sawmill 17:20:50 <andythenorth> could accept engineering supplies 17:21:08 <andythenorth> works more like a junk yard, gathers from surrounding area, not extracting directly 17:21:15 <andythenorth> might suck, dunno :P 17:21:34 *** Myhorta has joined #openttd 17:26:32 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 17:33:26 <andythenorth> ach, what am I trying to solve? 17:33:35 <andythenorth> having 19 cargos instead of 20 :| 17:45:29 <Alberth> add a supplies conversion industry :) 17:55:10 <andythenorth> that’s a port ;) 17:55:13 <andythenorth> or a supply yard 17:59:04 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:59:38 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:00:59 <Alberth> fair enough :) 18:59:00 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 18:59:13 <Wolf01> o/ 18:59:21 <Alberth> o/ 18:59:39 <Wolf01> Lego weekend finished 18:59:50 <Alberth> success? 19:00:14 <Wolf01> Not so much, people didn't expected to find lego in that fair 19:00:23 <Alberth> :( 19:00:42 <Wolf01> A lot of people but not interested 19:00:52 <Alberth> yeah, I can imagine 19:02:22 <Wolf01> Also people only looked at star wars, train and city themes, MOCs like mine didn't get much attention 19:03:57 <Alberth> but more because of the theme than because it's lego, I guess 19:04:06 <Wolf01> Yeah 19:24:00 *** Jinassi2 has joined #openttd 19:24:00 *** Jinassi is now known as Guest281 19:24:00 *** Jinassi2 is now known as Jinassi 19:25:55 *** Guest281 has quit IRC 19:34:32 *** Myhorta has quit IRC 19:36:32 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 19:36:33 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 19:39:04 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 19:39:15 <Wolf01> o/ 19:39:49 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 19:40:07 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 19:40:37 <Wolf01> frosch123, I think we have to think again at some nrt implementation 19:41:19 <Wolf01> For example 0 mean no road and normal road 19:59:12 <frosch123> V453000: ottd picks different blitters by default depending on whether the baseset is 32bpp, or only some newgrf is 32bpp 19:59:22 <frosch123> so that may make a difference 20:00:35 <frosch123> Wolf01: can you give me some more context? 20:00:51 <frosch123> "no roadbits" means "no road" usually 20:01:29 <Wolf01> Yes, but the GetRoadBits asserts if used with stations or bridges 20:01:41 <V453000> ok :) 20:01:47 <V453000> that's weird 20:01:58 <V453000> and if BRIX was replacing ALL sprites, would that make a difference? 20:02:23 <Wolf01> Or we remove the assert and pray, or we don't deprecate the m7 7..6 bits which tell which roadtypes are in the tile 20:04:32 <Wolf01> Also m4 in stations is a bit... abused 20:04:50 <Wolf01> It's free for roads, but for rails stores the station graphics 20:05:18 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 20:05:37 <Wolf01> So if we use it for road, we wouldn't have different roadstops (only 1 for every roadtype) 20:06:00 <frosch123> http://hg.openttd.org/trunk.hg/file/41561a532878/src/gfxinit.cpp#l261 <- V453000: if the baseset used 32bpp, it will prefer one of the sse blitters 20:06:08 <frosch123> they can try other blitters via "-b" 20:06:56 <frosch123> the idea was, that some blitters are faster for 32bpp but slower for 8bpp, so the decision is made based on the baseset, assuming it provides most of the graphics 20:07:32 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 20:07:37 <frosch123> Wolf01: i think m4 for roadstops is fine 20:07:56 <V453000> but shouldn't that mean that with zbase it is faster? 20:08:38 <frosch123> V453000: yes, "should" :p but what does theory matter for single computers? 20:09:04 <V453000> XD 20:09:37 <V453000> so what results can we expect once BRIX is complete grf and not a baseset? 20:10:58 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 20:12:06 <frosch123> Wolf01: for roadstops the map bits do not matter that much, since they have pool entries anyway 20:12:20 <frosch123> so custom roadstop graphics could always be done via the "RoadStop" struct 20:12:25 <frosch123> i would use m4 for roadtype 20:12:38 <frosch123> anyway, starting from thursday i should have some time for nrt :) 20:14:02 <Wolf01> +1 20:19:30 *** bwn has quit IRC 20:34:51 <andythenorth> so reindeer farm for arctic? o-O 20:34:57 <andythenorth> it’s a legit industry, if a bit niche 20:35:03 <V453000> im not drawing reindeer 20:35:09 <V453000> on wagons 20:35:19 <V453000> we can discuss slugdeer 20:35:20 <andythenorth> Siberia, Finland, Sweden, Canada all eat reindeer… 20:35:31 <V453000> fucking savages 20:35:31 <andythenorth> such realisms 20:36:11 <Wolf01> They eat it in the same quantity we use to eat cows? 20:36:30 <andythenorth> dunno :) 20:36:50 <frosch123> andythenorth: BOOM should have hazardous class, shouldn't it? 20:38:09 <andythenorth> apparently, according to forums 20:38:23 <andythenorth> if I was a vehicle set author, I’d probably want it, right? 20:38:28 <V453000> did you really make BOOM label? 20:38:30 <V453000> holy fuck 20:38:31 <V453000> XD 20:38:31 <frosch123> i have not read forums :) 20:38:46 <andythenorth> should I make a vehicle set? o_O 20:38:48 <frosch123> V453000: it is loaded while burning 20:38:56 <frosch123> you need to deliver it fast 20:39:05 <V453000> and I thought java for coffee was weird 20:39:48 <andythenorth> so what is hazardous class good for then? 20:39:59 <andythenorth> V453000: also http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0046268/ 20:40:18 <V453000> ok 20:41:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: nothing. nobody ever used it, it's a remnant from the silly "openttd+500" "specs" that somebody decided "maybe we keep it around, it doesn't sound as absurd as the rest" 20:41:53 <andythenorth> ha ha 20:42:14 <andythenorth> before my time :) 20:42:17 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: really, it is from that thing? 20:42:40 <frosch123> i thought it was added with the uranium stuff, which was way before that 20:42:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure... but memory is not reliable across such times 20:42:48 <andythenorth> reindeer farm: disallow_desert=True, 20:42:52 <andythenorth> seems legit :P 20:43:01 * andythenorth is copy-pasting from dairy farm 20:43:12 <frosch123> no dates for reindeer? 20:43:22 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: certainly uranium was suggested earlier than that, but it wasn't included in the wiki like that 20:43:23 <andythenorth> not in this economy 20:43:34 <andythenorth> reindeer farm: allow above snowline? o_O 20:43:36 <andythenorth> probably : 20:44:49 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: at some point we deleted stuff like "depleted uranium", which noone used 20:44:50 <Eddi|zuHause> dangit, i updated something, now steam doesn't start... and the solution that google gave me doesn't work 20:45:45 <Wolf01> Trash linux 20:46:22 *** bwn has joined #openttd 20:46:41 <Eddi|zuHause> well, from what i can tell, the package maintainer either already applied that solution to the installation, or steam itself changed since then 20:47:16 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 20:47:28 <Eddi|zuHause> because i can't find these files that it suggests deleting https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1504046#p1504046 20:48:15 * andythenorth wonders what openttd+500 _was_ 20:48:46 <Eddi|zuHause> a bunch of forum posts by sirxavius. pretty much. 20:49:54 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, pretty much all of that stuff we deleted was from that openttd+500 thing 20:50:30 <Eddi|zuHause> plus some andythenorth nonsense because he can't focus on anything :p 20:53:40 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the harzardous class already exists in the oldest version of the wiki 2007-02-19 20:53:58 <frosch123> ottd+500 is 2009-05-03 20:54:39 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe then only the ottd+500 cargos ever used it, or something 20:54:44 <frosch123> andythenorth: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=43449 <- plus the drama that all those posts at the front of the topic were separate topics 20:54:56 <andythenorth> yes 20:55:01 <andythenorth> where is the drama these days? 20:55:09 <andythenorth> we are lacking any primadonnas :( 20:55:10 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd is dying 20:55:14 <andythenorth> still? 20:55:21 <Eddi|zuHause> for years now 20:55:30 <frosch123> does that make it better? 20:55:38 <andythenorth> I played it yesterday 20:55:43 <andythenorth> does that help 20:55:44 <andythenorth> ? 20:56:34 <Wolf01> NRT will bring some new fresh air 20:56:52 <andythenorth> +1 20:57:08 <andythenorth> also, when I release new Arctic Basic, that’s like a whole new game :P 20:57:18 <andythenorth> or at least, it will cause someone some drama 20:57:28 <Wolf01> People play when they look at "Feature: xyz" in the changelog :P 20:57:43 <andythenorth> +1 21:01:52 <andythenorth> hmm, I’ll have to draw Rudolf for this reindeer farm 21:02:07 <Wolf01> Agreed 21:02:21 <Wolf01> But only on xmas 21:02:59 <Wolf01> Or better, just after xmas 21:03:47 <andythenorth> use the level crossing flashing red from the palette 21:05:26 <andythenorth> is it ridiculous for reindeer farm to produce goods? 21:05:39 <andythenorth> (skins) 21:05:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: so people who were like "thankfully this is over now" get additionally annoyed? 21:06:30 <Wolf01> No, that's a satisfaciotn, you'll eat it 21:07:03 <andythenorth> I doubt that there are trainloads of reindeer skin crossing finland daily 21:07:06 * andythenorth drops that idea 21:07:29 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 21:10:58 * frosch123 is waiting for yeti with red noses 21:11:25 *** Jinassi2 has joined #openttd 21:11:25 *** Jinassi is now known as Guest288 21:11:25 *** Jinassi2 is now known as Jinassi 21:12:27 <Jinassi> Could generalise it just with "game farm". A bit broader term and familiar all over the world. 21:12:39 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:13:21 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#arctic_basic 21:13:41 <andythenorth> I have failed to get down to 19 cargos 21:15:16 <andythenorth> could drop grain, and import alcohol and food 21:16:15 <frosch123> oh, you replaced the old arctic, i thought you added another arctic 21:16:17 *** Guest288 has quit IRC 21:17:03 <andythenorth> I am moving the old arctic to ‘steeltown' 21:17:07 <andythenorth> or a better name 21:17:13 <andythenorth> and making it a bit bigger 21:17:14 <frosch123> if you want to remove an industry, drop the hotel imho 21:17:23 <andythenorth> industries I am actually 1 short :P 21:17:36 <frosch123> oh, right, you asked for a cargo... 21:17:42 <andythenorth> 19 cargos and 19 industries is the target :) 21:17:43 <andythenorth> FWIW 21:18:08 <frosch123> goods should go to reindeer farm 21:18:22 <andythenorth> for distribution 21:18:30 <andythenorth> only processed in November and December 21:18:38 <andythenorth> like MB’s farms 21:19:58 <frosch123> i guess 18/20 is fine 21:20:15 <frosch123> it's same as tropic basic 21:20:22 <frosch123> so, maybe temperate basic is wrong :p 21:20:33 <andythenorth> plays nicely though :) 21:20:51 <andythenorth> I use it quite often 21:20:55 <andythenorth> no desire to change it 21:21:26 *** Alberth has left #openttd 21:21:51 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 21:22:53 <frosch123> don't :) 21:22:54 <frosch123> night 21:22:56 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:23:41 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 21:24:26 <andythenorth> reindeer farm looks like a silly novelty 21:24:31 * andythenorth removes that 21:26:15 <Eddi|zuHause> got steam working again by downgrading mesa 21:28:37 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 21:29:10 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 21:31:32 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 21:32:45 <andythenorth> hmm 21:32:58 <andythenorth> there is a valid industry, collecting sea logs 21:55:14 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:23:01 *** Jinassi2 has joined #openttd 22:23:01 *** Jinassi is now known as Guest292 22:23:01 *** Jinassi2 is now known as Jinassi 22:24:30 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:26:02 *** Guest292 has quit IRC 22:27:44 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:57:01 *** Fatmice has joined #openttd 23:04:18 *** GriffinOneTwo_ has quit IRC 23:04:48 *** Lejving_ has joined #openttd 23:10:55 *** Lejving has quit IRC 23:11:40 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 23:12:45 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:21:16 <Wolf01> 'night 23:21:19 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:33:06 *** Taede has quit IRC 23:38:24 *** Compu has quit IRC 23:39:57 *** Compu has joined #openttd 23:52:12 *** keoz has quit IRC 23:57:21 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 23:57:44 *** FLHerne has quit IRC