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Log for #openttd on 22nd January 2017:
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00:29:08  <supermop_home> oof 7 hours of standing and walking outside on the street
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00:32:27  <Eddi|zuHause> some people do that for fun
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00:32:54  <supermop_home> usually in better shoes and with less standing still
00:33:12  <supermop_home> I was doing lunges to stretch my legs after
00:33:29  <supermop_home> couldn't move them much in such a packed crowd
00:33:42  <supermop_home> should have worn warmer clothes too
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00:50:57  <supermop_home> hmm I wonder whats going on with my work computer there
00:51:13  <supermop_home> office internet always pretty iffy
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06:13:18  <Alberth> moin
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06:49:47  <adf88> yo
06:49:55  <adf88> any forum mod here?
06:50:10  <adf88> spam here: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=75831
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07:00:50  <Alberth> just report it with the ! button
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07:26:21  <Alberth> o/
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07:27:01  <Alberth> so you meant another riddle by GarryG :)
07:27:50  <Alberth> camel riddle was much nicer
07:28:09  <andythenorth> I meant the riddle :)
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08:21:49  <andythenorth> such ships
08:21:54  * andythenorth busy
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09:19:05  <Wolf01> o/
09:20:17  <Alberth> o/
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09:24:48  <andythenorth> Alberth: would you be able to review the nml NRT fork?  o_O
09:25:00  <andythenorth> I’m not actually sure it’s ready yet, but eh
09:29:54  * andythenorth needs a deadline 
09:42:32  <Alberth> today would be fine :p
09:43:23  <Alberth> although I am pretty clueless on the GRFspec side of things, so it'll be mostly style and code sanity
09:48:33  <Alberth> nice HG usage/extensions article https://www.gamedev.net/resources/_/technical/apis-and-tools/intermediate-advanced-mercurial-dvcs-hg-tips-r4483
09:52:00  <andythenorth> hmm
09:52:07  <andythenorth> this diff has too much in it https://github.com/andythenorth/nml-andythenorth/compare/NotRoadTypes
09:52:23  <andythenorth> .gitignore and the example newgrf aren’t relevant to nmlc :P
09:55:23  <Alberth> quite :)
09:55:35  <Alberth> example newgrf can be in regression tests though
09:55:59  <Alberth> there is a severe lack of those :)
09:57:19  <andythenorth> yup
09:57:26  <andythenorth> we need some apprentice contributors :P
09:58:30  <Alberth> I fear that would cost money :)
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09:59:07  <Alberth> "I want to hack nml"     "oh great, go write regression tests then!"
09:59:18  <Alberth> not working, I think :)
10:00:18  <andythenorth> :P
10:13:27  * andythenorth wonders again, who needs a ship with 720 bags of mail? :P
10:13:54  <andythenorth> my game has a 41k popn city, with 2000 mailbags per month
10:16:35  <Alberth> only time I needed a mail ship was with servicing some small islands, which BB made me do
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10:16:55  <Alberth> it had less than 720 popn :p
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10:18:18  <andythenorth> ha, if I apply the 2:1 mail ratio I use in Road Hog
10:18:31  <andythenorth> it’s 1440 mailbags or so :P
10:18:33  <andythenorth> how silly
10:20:18  <Alberth> how fast should mail be delivered? ie, does it age fast?
10:20:27  <Alberth> ships make no sense then
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10:20:43  <Alberth> it'd need water-planes!
10:20:54  <andythenorth> :P
10:22:48  <andythenorth> mail is quite a harsh payment curve
10:22:51  * andythenorth checked
10:27:47  <Alberth> likely if you have a few big towns next to water, mail transport could work
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10:37:48  <adf88> hi
10:37:48  <adf88> i'm considering a new feature to my "House Placing" patch
10:37:48  <adf88> i'm curious about your opinion
10:38:12  <adf88> while in "newgame" mode (not scenario editor)
10:38:27  <adf88> allow placing houses only next to roads
10:38:51  <adf88> connected with the town the house is about to be added
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10:39:50  <adf88> I want to make adding houses in-game to be sth like funding industries
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10:40:25  <adf88> currently roads just don't matter, perhaps they should?
10:44:03  <adf88> houses without roads next to them will be slowly dying, that's why i'm concened
10:44:51  <andythenorth> you want to fix it for default game, not in newgrf?
10:45:53  <adf88> yes
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10:46:45  <adf88> when placing manually, houses would be allowed only around town-connected roads
10:47:01  * andythenorth never uses scenario, so no +/-0
10:47:13  <andythenorth> * no opinion
10:47:34  <adf88> not in SE, in normal game :)
10:47:41  <adf88> in SE there would be no limit
10:47:47  <andythenorth> oops :)
10:48:10  <adf88> in mean normal game, something similar to funding industries but for houses
10:49:05  <Alberth> for what purpose?
10:49:53  <Alberth> transport tycoons going into house rental business?
10:50:04  <adf88> 1. houses not next to roads will die after some time, a player might be confused "hey, where my houses gone"
10:50:23  <Alberth> killing all city GSes?
10:51:07  <Alberth> I haven't yet reached the point where manually adding a house in-game makes sense to me
10:52:20  <adf88> 2. this would be more challenging and would force you to keep "some" road layout, no "clusters" allowed etc.
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11:38:04  <Alberth> o/
11:43:04  <Eddi|zuHause> adf88: there is a "fund new buildings" option in every town already... why would you hand-place houses?
11:43:43  <frosch123> hoi
11:43:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, other than for furthering your micromanagement fetish
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11:49:11  <adf88> there are other reasons too
11:49:27  <adf88> some houses provide/accept resources other then pax/mail
11:49:57  <adf88> also you may wan't to concentrate houses near specific places e.g. your stations
11:50:33  <adf88> but mainly it's for SE and eyecandy ;)
11:51:41  <adf88> in-game placing of houses is to provide something like industry purchasing
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12:44:04  <frosch123> andythenorth: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1181890#p1181890 <- want to add the binary link to first post?
12:45:38  <andythenorth> done
12:45:47  <andythenorth> thanks
12:48:00  <SpComb> adf88: there's a game called Cities: Skylines that you can buy
12:50:49  <andythenorth> bbl
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13:13:22  <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27739 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2017-01-22 14:13:15 +0100 )
13:13:23  <DorpsGek> -Cleanup/Revert (r12162): Clearing MP_HOUSE with DC_EXEC always fails, so there is no effect in testing for houses first. (adf88)
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13:38:33  <Eddi|zuHause> adf88: i have nothing against SE house placing, but ingame house placing will get you the usual "this is not sim city" reply.
13:43:08  <adf88> same argument can be brought against funding industries in-game right?
13:43:44  <adf88> i mean that the difference isn't that big
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13:50:30  <Alberth> industry is more comparable to a town than to a single house, and we already have "found town"
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13:52:50  <Alberth> oh joy, save/load of std::string :p
13:54:03  <adf88> "industry is more comparable to a town than to a single house" thats questionable :P
13:54:16  <adf88> banks etc.
13:54:52  <adf88> in-game placing is rather for it's cargo
13:55:01  <adf88> not "shaping" towns
13:55:37  <Alberth> should be an industry that you place then?
13:56:20  <Alberth> I would say, you place towns and industries for building new stations
13:56:33  <Alberth> you don't build a new station for a single house
13:58:46  <Alberth> I never use those facilities, and am in fact not even convinced that adding new industries and towns by the user is a good idea
14:00:28  <Alberth> new industries were perhaps inherited from the original game (not sure about that)
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14:01:03  <Alberth> new towns I am still failing to understand why that was added
14:02:31  <Alberth> but someone thought otherwise
14:06:31  <adf88> for example, in ECS vector town buildings involve in cargo chains
14:06:43  <adf88> maybe there could be some use
14:07:32  <adf88> placing few houses here are there may be usefull
14:07:43  <adf88> in harsh environments
14:08:21  <Eddi|zuHause> funding industries was a new core feature in TTD (for the tropic sawmill, that does not spawn automatically), it was not present in TTO (i think)
14:09:09  <Eddi|zuHause> adf88: the problem with ECS stuff is that those buildings should have been industries in the first place
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14:10:27  <Eddi|zuHause> adf88: putting in new features to patch up bad design decisions is not necessarily the right way to go
14:11:20  <adf88> no, it's not to patch ECS
14:11:30  <Alberth> good point about the swamill
14:12:01  <Alberth> *sawmill
14:21:04  <frosch123> the goal of "fund town" was to make the game continue after you connected everything
14:21:14  <frosch123> similar to funding/prospecting industries
14:22:00  <frosch123> as i see it, "funding new houses" via town authority is equivalent to "prospect industry"
14:22:17  <frosch123> while building single houses would be equivalent to "place industry in specific position"
14:28:17  <adf88> town building always were accepting different cargoes
14:28:22  <adf88> e.g. goods
14:28:42  <adf88> it was not ECS that invented this
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14:31:36  <adf88> and it's about all town cargoes, pax and mail too
14:31:50  <adf88> its micromanaging, yes
14:35:14  <adf88> it can be found useful when "fund town" is too much
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15:00:59  <Wolf01> <adf88> also you may wan't to concentrate houses near specific places e.g. your stations <- you will solve that with proper town growth algorythm, not by doing that manually
15:01:10  <Wolf01> Oh, he left
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15:47:57  <supermop_home> that SV goal took me longer than it should have
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15:49:13  <frosch123> supermop_home: there is now a notroadtype nml binary on the forums, in case you need one
15:49:19  <frosch123> (for windows)
15:49:26  <supermop_home> cool!
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15:50:32  <supermop_home> my production of ensp jumped from 1,997/q to 3100/q in one quarter due to just a few timetable optimizations
15:51:35  <supermop_home> so here i was thinking I was in bad shape and in need of major track rework and funding more industries beyond the goal amount
15:51:53  <supermop_home> when suddenly I get the won box
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15:52:17  <supermop_home> bronze medal though...
15:53:10  <supermop_home> brb coffee
16:02:41  <Alberth> nice improvement :)
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16:51:06  <andythenorth> Wolf01: LAs are crap
16:51:15  <andythenorth> every time I try to use them, they’re a waste of time :P
16:51:25  * andythenorth reverting back to pneumatics
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18:14:22  * andythenorth has to bring back the FISH Island Trader
18:14:30  <andythenorth> that was the most boss ship in FISH anyway
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18:48:09  <supermop_home> andythenorth yess
18:48:19  <supermop_home> traders everywhere for everything
18:50:06  <supermop_home> SV won dialog box has a button labeled 'accept'
18:50:19  <supermop_home> what if I don't want to accept the result
18:51:27  <Eddi|zuHause> what if i don't want to accept a site's cookie policy?
18:51:53  <supermop_home> what if the policy is a free cookie?
18:52:32  <frosch> there was no "meh" button
18:52:33  <Eddi|zuHause> there is no such thing as a free cookie
18:53:27  <supermop_home> best cookies around here are like , it's absurd
18:54:24  <frosch> per piece? per ton?
18:54:33  <supermop_home> per cookie
18:56:11  <frosch> hmm, i think my favorite cookie is one of those that i bake myself
18:56:34  <supermop_home> they certainly work out to be cheaper per cookie
18:56:41  <frosch> so, quite cheap, but involves work
18:56:49  <supermop_home> plus the benefit of making your house smell nice
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19:02:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't baked cookies in forever
19:02:49  <frosch> i do about every december
19:03:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i have family members who do that
19:03:10  <frosch> i am that family member :p
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19:03:33  <Eddi|zuHause> that would be news to me :p
19:03:36  <supermop_home> haha
19:03:51  <supermop_home> can you be my cookie baking family too?
19:04:25  <frosch> not sure how they would take shipping
19:04:44  <supermop_home> I am happy to eat broken cookies
19:04:54  <frosch> i am more concerned about moisture
19:05:21  <Eddi|zuHause> they invented plastic bags for that
19:05:40  <frosch> i have nothing to vacuum pack them
19:06:03  <Eddi|zuHause> how would that need vacuum?
19:06:04  <supermop_home> andythenorth: the army of RH supplies trucks that won me my ENSP SV game look a bit forlorne with no cargo
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19:06:30  <frosch> Eddi|zuHause: moisture correlates with temperature
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19:10:13  <Eddi|zuHause> but that means you need dry air when packing, that's significantly lower requirement than vacuum
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19:16:49  <andythenorth> supermop_home: cargo I should do eh?
19:19:32  <Markk> Hai folks, I just have a quick question, should I try to move some of the adjoining stations up to the right to be able to create a similar layout to the station down to the right, or is it similar in efficiency? http://i.imgur.com/qFt7LEc.png
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19:19:54  <Markk> Oh, second one should be down to the left*
19:21:55  <Eddi|zuHause> RORO stations (left version) can be the most efficient, but requires a lot of space, terminus stations (right version) can be more compact, but less efficient, as exiting trains may block entering trains.
19:22:35  <Eddi|zuHause> with clever design, you can get terminus stations to almost the same efficiency as roro stations
19:23:50  <Markk> Ah, that's what I thought. :)
19:26:00  <Markk> On the terminus station to the right I have two exit tracks with one inbound (the tracks that takes off down to the left is not in use). So with the PBS signals I've managed to avoid blocking inbound trains when anouther departs.
19:27:06  <Markk> I shall look into if I can manage to squeeze in another RoRo station, it's quite tight as it is with a 64x64 map.
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19:36:57  <andythenorth> to sort this mess out… http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8334/sam-depot-view.png
19:37:02  <andythenorth> I use this? https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Vehicles#Sprites_in_GUI
19:46:39  <frosch> hmm, i thought it did that stuff automatically
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19:46:55  <frosch> reload the game?
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19:51:00  <andythenorth> might just be terrible offsets
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19:51:40  <frosch> well, make it look good on the map first then :)
19:51:47  <frosch> depot should adjust itself
19:51:57  <frosch> but it may not work when reloading newgrf in-game
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19:55:17  <andythenorth> ok :)
19:55:44  <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't recalculate on reloading newgrf? which idiot programmed this stuff...
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19:56:26  <frosch> "may", i did not check it
19:56:29  <Eddi|zuHause> on that note, i only recall it was meant to adjust depot grid sizes, not the vehicle view
19:57:02  <frosch> then make a patch to make vehicle view work like depot view
19:57:11  <andythenorth> vehicle view looks ok for Sam, ironically :P
19:57:27  <andythenorth> but refit window is quite…cropped
19:57:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm really not going to do that.
19:58:23  <frosch> i already had to finish your other patch
19:58:34  <supermop_home> andythenorth is the supplies truck meant to have a transformer or heqs dozer etc on it?
19:59:00  <andythenorth> it should have something
19:59:02  * andythenorth looks
19:59:24  <andythenorth> supermop_home: has a tarp for now :P
19:59:26  <supermop_home> as is, it is empty with a full load of ensp
19:59:33  <andythenorth> oh that must be a bug :D
19:59:45  <andythenorth> sprite has a tarp in it
20:00:55  <supermop_home> makes my 1000 crate a month ENSP conglomeration look a bit pathetic
20:01:11  <supermop_home> all the trucks leave the machine shop empty
20:02:25  <supermop_home> its for the brigand
20:02:37  <supermop_home> unsure if affects the older models
20:04:05  <supermop_home> how about new cargo 'tarps' to boost productivity of machine shop
20:04:34  <supermop_home> "your dream is to turn Gadhattan into Tarp Valley"
20:05:41  * andythenorth needs a new GS
20:05:50  <supermop_home> tarp GS
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20:33:29  <andythenorth> supermop_home: fixed and pushed
20:33:52  <supermop_home> cool
20:33:57  <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/road-hog/repository/revisions/9eba1ed4e696
20:40:24  <andythenorth> busy bee or SV?
20:40:36  <supermop_home> hmm?
20:41:29  * andythenorth has to start a test game for Sam
20:42:04  <supermop_home> busy bee in an archipelago likely best for ship variety
20:44:31  <Wolf01> Oh, busy day on minecraft today :P
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21:01:19  <andythenorth> bye
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