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00:34:17 *** skapazzo has quit IRC 00:36:55 <Wolf01> 'night 00:36:58 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 00:48:26 *** gelignite has quit IRC 00:53:07 *** maciozo has quit IRC 01:26:04 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 01:30:06 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 01:55:21 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 03:07:35 *** glx has quit IRC 03:09:04 *** supermop has joined #openttd 03:23:07 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd 03:35:21 *** Biolunar_ has joined #openttd 03:42:19 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 04:13:07 *** markasoftware has quit IRC 04:14:39 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd 04:31:23 *** supermop has quit IRC 04:40:21 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 05:55:19 *** supermop has joined #openttd 06:06:49 *** markasoftware has quit IRC 07:06:37 *** zeknurn has quit IRC 07:13:33 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:15:10 *** zeknurn has joined #openttd 07:47:35 *** snadge has joined #openttd 07:47:51 <snadge> this channel is yuge 07:50:52 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 07:51:03 <snadge> im about to dive into the code, and am looking for documnetation.. but how does the music engine work? is that a built in soft synth? 07:51:18 <snadge> im kinda hoping to override the output midi device 07:53:22 <snadge> LOL figured it out.. just used coolsoft midi mapper to change the default output device 07:53:48 <snadge> so now its the original score being played via a roland sc-880 ;) 07:54:07 <snadge> into sennheiser studio headphones 07:59:04 <andythenorth> shiny 08:11:24 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:12:20 <Eddi|zuHause> snadge: my first attempt would be the os/xxx_m.cpp files 08:12:51 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly they moved into some subdirectories in the past 10 years... 08:14:18 <Eddi|zuHause> snadge: anyway, there should be an "extmidi" driver, which you can use to override via the command line 08:18:16 *** chomwitt1 has quit IRC 08:45:51 *** matt11235 has joined #openttd 08:57:19 *** matt11235 has quit IRC 08:58:50 * andythenorth needs to draw “Vehicle Bodies” for CHIPS http://automotivelogistics.media/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Hyttlossning-3.jpg?_ga=1.263949960.506186370.1487407747 09:04:33 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 09:04:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 09:04:39 <Alberth> moin 09:05:02 *** matt11235 has joined #openttd 09:07:51 *** KouDy has quit IRC 09:08:05 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 09:11:33 <andythenorth> hi Alberth 09:18:20 <andythenorth> cement cargo: bulk piles? http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-tzzr68DDQIE/T_q4nf4hYpI/AAAAAAAADYY/h74o15N2zFI/s1600/YHTUI869.jpg 09:18:27 <andythenorth> or bags? https://www.flickr.com/photos/adamcohn/15602076112 09:18:46 <andythenorth> bags won’t look like bags at TTD scale, they’ll look like blobs 09:21:30 *** skapazzo has joined #openttd 09:22:50 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 09:25:16 <Alberth> platforms don't have enough room for proper piles, imho 09:25:47 <Alberth> I prefer stacks, gives more variation 09:27:35 <Alberth> got a bit tired of not having a unique name in the tar/zipfile :p https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pefxuwum1 09:36:40 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: make whole stacks of bags 09:38:35 <Alberth> :o steel finishing plant, how nice 09:39:51 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: probably I should 09:40:07 <andythenorth> I need sacks for cargos like wool also 09:40:12 <andythenorth> and same sprites would work 09:40:28 <andythenorth> recolouring the bulk cargo would be easier :) 09:45:58 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1037 09:45:59 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 09:46:14 <Alberth> you're clustering the quarries? 09:46:43 <andythenorth> yes 09:47:02 <andythenorth> I am +/-0 to clustering 09:47:09 <andythenorth> but players seem to like it :| 09:47:10 <Alberth> looks nice 09:47:49 <Alberth> it avoids evenly distribution across the entire map, somewhat 09:48:13 <Alberth> instead you get a few points with heaps of sand and stones 09:48:24 <Alberth> moooaaar trainz needed :) 09:50:37 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 09:50:58 *** Guest1037 has quit IRC 09:56:02 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 09:58:18 <andythenorth> ha, bulk cement doesn’t show up on concrete CHIPS tiles :) 10:01:32 <andythenorth> maybe I should split tyres from vehicle parts 10:01:41 <andythenorth> then they could be shown as cargo…. 10:05:54 <Alberth> what does "Not producing" mean, as it just made 266t http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/not_producing.png 10:07:08 <Alberth> perhaps you're missing a "must supply all input cargoes" boolean parameter, for "hard cargo" players :p 10:08:03 <Alberth> or produce more if the balance is more even :p 10:08:31 <andythenorth> sadly, the strings are all broken :) 10:08:44 <andythenorth> fixing them is both a code problem and a design problem :) 10:09:04 <andythenorth> that parameter might be a valid one 10:09:31 <andythenorth> “Require all input cargos: never | some industries only | always” 10:10:16 <andythenorth> for the industry text, ‘delivered within last three months’ is too long 10:11:30 <andythenorth> ✓ would probably be sufficient :P 10:11:56 <Alberth> recently delivered 10:11:57 <andythenorth> or two lists: Delivered / Required 10:12:23 <andythenorth> the ‘three months’ is redundant detail? o_O 10:12:49 <Alberth> delivered last quarter 10:13:01 <andythenorth> ‘delivered’ ? 10:13:06 * andythenorth thinks strip it right down 10:13:08 <Alberth> would work too 10:14:07 <Alberth> ha, also have a parameter "process in equal quantities" 10:15:08 <Alberth> and produce more, to tease people into playing it :p 10:15:58 * andythenorth wonders if the ratios are just over-thinking it 10:16:05 <andythenorth> but 3 into 8 doesn’t go neatly :) 10:16:56 <Alberth> you need something to steer the player in delivering the "right" cargoes 10:18:05 <Alberth> balancing input would open a new way of playing 10:18:21 <Alberth> although you then also need somewhat stock-piling-ish 10:18:40 <Alberth> but less rigid than ecs 10:19:33 <andythenorth> I think the old display of the ratios guided ‘right’ cargos? 10:19:46 <andythenorth> not sure the new text is better 10:19:54 <Alberth> for me it did, generally 10:20:03 <andythenorth> I only started the new text to reduce translation maintenance 10:20:31 <Alberth> you could do "needed", "recommended", and "accepted" or so 10:20:45 <andythenorth> hmm, if I revert to old, it will be a big manual merge :D 10:20:47 <andythenorth> ugh 10:21:13 <Alberth> this is why branches can be useful :p 10:21:53 <andythenorth> isn’t it :) 10:22:47 <Alberth> the displayed string is just wrong thus? 10:23:02 <andythenorth> the ‘not producing’ is wrong 10:23:11 <andythenorth> the ‘required’ / ‘delivered’ are accurate 10:24:48 <Alberth> seems that way indeed 10:25:38 <andythenorth> ‘Current efficient: zero’ also wrong 10:27:06 <Alberth> :) 10:27:21 <Alberth> "help!" 10:28:11 <Alberth> http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/sulphur_pipeline.png <-- you could add a pipeline, every now and then :p 10:31:21 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 10:32:21 <Wolf01> o/ 10:32:49 <Alberth> moin 10:33:19 <andythenorth> use the PIPE grf :) 10:33:50 <andythenorth> PIPE should be redone as NRT, and Wolf01 should finish the ‘no crossings’ patch that we said wasn’t needed :) 10:34:02 <andythenorth> ‘no crossings’ would be useful for a PIPE hack on NRT 10:34:09 <Wolf01> The patch *is* finished 10:35:32 <andythenorth> Alberth: you’re using the Dutch translation in FIRS? 10:35:44 <Wolf01> I had the idea to add a "no bridges" flag too (to disable $roadtype bridges, not bridges over $roadtype") some time ago, and I think it would come handy to supermop 10:36:08 <Wolf01> *bridges AND tunnels, that is 10:38:10 <Alberth> I do, currently 10:38:53 <Alberth> andythenorth: oh, sorry, no I don't, I use dutch town names only 10:38:59 <andythenorth> ok, well http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/ 10:39:05 <andythenorth> is stripped to just ‘required' 10:39:10 <andythenorth> should be savegame safe 10:39:53 <Alberth> you're tempting me to break the newgrf-update rule eh? :) 10:40:07 <andythenorth> just don’t post your bug report in the forum when it breaks :P 10:40:28 <Alberth> haha :) 10:40:30 <andythenorth> I probably get about 99% success rate on newgrf updates 10:40:43 <andythenorth> and 1 in 100 will crash openttd, or unrecoverably destroy my game 10:40:58 <Alberth> yeah, but you know exactly what you changed :) 10:41:02 <andythenorth> yup 10:41:09 <Alberth> that helps :) 10:41:14 <andythenorth> so this industry window text remains pretty unsatisfactory 10:41:44 <andythenorth> it repeats the required cargos, and is generally hard to understand 10:41:46 <Alberth> needs some work 10:46:30 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8358/industry-window-text.png 10:46:45 <andythenorth> I’ve wanted the ‘needed’ / ‘delivered’ text for years 10:47:08 <andythenorth> to see quickly whether cargos are getting delivered frequently 10:47:22 <andythenorth> but it’s confusing unless you really understand FIRS 10:47:36 <andythenorth> does ‘delivered’ mean you can’t deliver more? 10:47:42 <andythenorth> does the industry have ‘enough’? 10:47:51 <andythenorth> maybe it has closed the stockpile? etc 10:50:24 <Alberth> provided 10:50:26 <Alberth> ? 10:50:42 <Alberth> sufficient 10:51:33 * andythenorth wondering if we have any glyphs that could be made red / green 10:51:37 <Alberth> supply secured 10:51:40 <Alberth> supplied 10:51:42 <andythenorth> it’s just a guide, not an instruction 10:51:57 <andythenorth> it’s like the red/green in the vehicle list for profit 10:52:02 <Alberth> yay! 10:52:32 <andythenorth> the ‘required: [cargos]’ is also repeating the ‘cargo waiting to be processed' 10:52:33 <Alberth> red/green is horrible for people that are colour blind 10:52:37 <andythenorth> I know :| 10:52:55 <andythenorth> ideal would be two different glyphs 10:53:04 <andythenorth> presumably I could extend openttd base font? 10:53:53 <Alberth> I wonder how script pages do that 10:54:35 <Alberth> euhm, *story pages 10:55:06 <andythenorth> ah there’s a tick mark here https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/StringCodes 10:55:15 <Alberth> available 10:55:17 <andythenorth> but not in nml 10:57:43 <Alberth> neither in translation http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/eints/nightlies/LATEST/docs/string_commands.html#non-positional-newgrf-string-commands 10:58:38 * andythenorth patches nml to test 10:58:59 <Alberth> I got those from openttd source, and not from nml, iirc 10:59:26 <Alberth> but some were dropped, as they were not useful, iirc 10:59:37 <andythenorth> maybe newgrf docs are outdated 10:59:47 <Alberth> frosch might know 11:01:40 <Alberth> src/table/strgen_tables.h has a checkmark, but no cross, it seems 11:01:55 <andythenorth> newgrf docs say “X mark" 11:02:01 <andythenorth> on offset AD 11:02:08 <Alberth> euhm, it's just below the check mark :p 11:02:18 <andythenorth> I didn’t see it until the 3rd time I looked :P 11:02:20 <Alberth> I should try reading :p 11:04:26 <Alberth> just keep the text, write 2 lines of text about in the do-not-readme, and you're done :) 11:05:07 <andythenorth> it has become a project now :) 11:19:30 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8359/industry-window-text-2.png 11:19:42 <andythenorth> Alberth: bit ugly, but…more sense? ^ 11:24:28 <Alberth> would work, what does "Required:" mean 11:24:42 <andythenorth> I am trying to simplify further 11:24:48 * andythenorth waits for compile 11:26:26 <Alberth> "(ok)" would be a textual alternative 11:27:09 <Alberth> "Recently delivered:" instead of "Required:" ? 11:27:23 <Alberth> or "Delivered in last three months:" 11:27:50 <Alberth> do you have optional cargoes? 11:28:15 <andythenorth> unfortunately 11:28:23 <andythenorth> sometimes 11:28:37 <andythenorth> too much detail imho 11:29:05 <Alberth> those do not count in gung-ho etc, I guess 11:30:12 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8360/industry-window-text-3.png 11:31:05 <Alberth> :O pretty 11:31:49 <Alberth> I wonder if that really needs a list of 3 lines, but fair enough 11:32:48 <andythenorth> well I can’t control the ‘cargo waiting to be processed’ text :) 11:32:57 <andythenorth> which is pointless here 11:34:06 <Alberth> .. within three moinths: Iron Ore ✔ Coke ✔ Stone (lacking)" 11:34:27 <andythenorth> I’ll patch nml and see what the x looks like 11:34:49 <Alberth> yeah, I know about the stupid text 11:34:57 <Alberth> ✗ <- like that :p 11:36:05 <andythenorth> stupid text is fixable :) 11:36:17 <andythenorth> just one of those too-many things that it’s hoped frosch will do :) 11:37:09 <Alberth> yeah, but so far the text is still winning :p 11:37:22 <andythenorth> I am going to start patching more things :P 11:37:26 <andythenorth> ineptly 11:37:39 <andythenorth> but not while so many newgrfs are in unreleasable state 11:39:12 <andythenorth> with 2 cargos (and this industry has some extra info text) 11:39:13 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8361/industry-window-text-4.png 11:44:18 <andythenorth> oh 11:44:45 <Alberth> "Produces stuff." isn't terribly relevant 11:45:18 <Alberth> add it to the documentation :) 11:45:24 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8362/industry-window-text-5.png 11:45:38 <andythenorth> x is large font for some reason :P 11:46:10 <Alberth> {small}{cross} :p 11:46:25 <Alberth> may not exist though 11:46:53 <Alberth> this may also be the reason why checkmark and cross were dropped 11:46:55 <andythenorth> can’t use {small} in this window 11:47:05 <andythenorth> there’s no way to reset back to normal 11:47:25 <Alberth> silly openttd 11:47:31 <andythenorth> was it frosch who wanted to replace all string handling with some text framework? o_O 11:47:37 <andythenorth> someone did 11:47:45 <Alberth> I would not be surprised 11:48:33 <Alberth> zuu perhaps, he tried to make clickable town names and so on 11:48:46 <Alberth> maybe that even works 11:48:57 <andythenorth> it does in some places 11:58:03 <andythenorth> Alberth: you think I should drop the ‘extra info’ text that some industries have? 12:03:23 <andythenorth> it’s only used at 13 out of 82 industries 12:03:30 <andythenorth> answer is probably self-evident :) 12:20:10 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 12:25:03 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 12:25:50 <Alberth> it's nice side-information, perhaps modellers like it 12:26:17 <Alberth> I typically just read the the accepted cargoes and often the ratios too 12:26:41 <andythenorth> I’ve deleted it, but kept the strings locally in case I reuse them in docs 12:26:50 <Alberth> for more experienced players, they can probably draw the cargo flow from their head 12:27:02 <andythenorth> even I can’t do that :) 12:27:09 <andythenorth> I have to use the cargo flow window a lot 12:27:50 <Alberth> yeah, the text is definitely useful, I think even the picture links you paste here would be fun to add 12:28:24 <Alberth> you play all economies, and your focus is not playing :p 12:29:34 <Alberth> if you play the one favourite economy every day, you know what to connect within a month :) 12:33:18 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 12:38:10 * andythenorth has deleted all the extra text 12:38:22 <andythenorth> better now 12:41:56 <Alberth> less cluttered :) 12:47:58 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 13:03:42 <andythenorth> Alberth: if you’re still playing… http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8363/firs.tar 13:04:20 <andythenorth> bundles won’t build, because I patched nml 13:05:49 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 13:08:50 <Wolf01> <andythenorth> x is large font for some reason :P <- to catch more attention 13:10:08 <andythenorth> heh 13:10:18 * andythenorth trying to figure out where the glyphs come from :P 13:10:27 <andythenorth> scaling or drawing an x can’t be hard 13:10:43 <andythenorth> moar patches 13:12:02 <Wolf01> http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?/forums/topic/146983-wip-mb-arocs-42043-c-model-heavy-duty-rotator-tow-truck/ tow trucks... tow trucks everywhere 13:12:17 <andythenorth> yeah 13:12:21 <andythenorth> that thread is weird though 13:13:13 <Wolf01> I have a nasty problem with eb forum, I can't change pages on topics, it happen for you too? 13:14:46 <andythenorth> yup 13:14:49 <andythenorth> seems to be webkit 13:15:00 <Wolf01> I'm on firefox... 13:15:01 <andythenorth> I tried digging through the JS calls to find the problem 13:15:08 <andythenorth> but eh, I am not good at JS debugging 13:15:26 <Wolf01> I was, but now I forgot everything about js :P 13:15:27 <andythenorth> they claim it’s contention on the DB 13:15:32 <andythenorth> but I would be surprised by that 13:16:07 <Wolf01> I change page then hit F5, it works 13:16:13 <andythenorth> same here 13:16:25 <Wolf01> So I thing it's just shitty js 13:16:31 <andythenorth> it’s something in the fancy scroll-fade crap they applied 13:16:32 <Wolf01> *think 13:16:53 <andythenorth> _could_ be DB locks failing to clear, because they might have to lock if you’re editing a reply 13:16:58 <andythenorth> but that sounds like piss-poor design to me 13:17:00 <Wolf01> Also on edge is broken beyond help 13:17:18 <andythenorth> all my favourite forums except tt-forums have gone crap recently 13:17:20 <andythenorth> all upgraded 13:17:24 <andythenorth> and worse 13:17:27 <Wolf01> Yep 13:17:31 <andythenorth> and it’s not just because I’m 39 13:17:33 <andythenorth> and fear change 13:17:55 <andythenorth> PHP-BB is just more reliable and has less shit 13:18:30 <Wolf01> People want only fancy things with glitter, then make loads of bug reports 13:19:01 <Wolf01> I still have a SMF 1.x 13:19:58 <Wolf01> Which works like a charm, after a fix for the config file which got emptied instead of a cache file 13:34:58 *** Progman has quit IRC 13:38:16 *** Progman has joined #openttd 13:58:05 <supermop> yo 13:58:10 <Wolf01> o/ 13:58:28 <supermop> who wants some cobblestone stams? 13:58:42 *** matt11235 has quit IRC 13:58:46 <andythenorth> you do? o_O 13:58:54 <supermop> also current sv goal: Metal Valley 13:59:09 <supermop> pretty metal 13:59:20 <supermop> grf is 'done' 13:59:48 <supermop> well done enough I might set the version to 0.1.0 instead of just 0 14:04:04 <andythenorth> ship it then 14:04:07 <andythenorth> got a repo? 14:12:41 <supermop> repo is a folder on my google drive 14:15:02 <supermop> hmm this computer has a new hog than nrt hog on it 14:15:48 <andythenorth> you need the NRT branch? 14:16:10 <supermop> no I have it here, it just doesn't show up to select for a new game 14:16:16 <supermop> need to delete 1.2.0 14:17:30 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 14:19:26 <frosch123> "What has happened to the airport in this game, i love this game but why you have changed the style of the airport.Plz tell me how to fix it because i want that international airport not this muddy airport. What to do." <- anyone interested in moving to first level support? 14:19:46 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: there is a hidden setting to show all grf versions, not just the newest 14:20:26 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: I vaugely recalled that but was faster to close game and delete grf than look it up 14:21:02 <Eddi|zuHause> just open the console and type "list_settings grf"? 14:22:16 <andythenorth> frosch123: I’ll trade you that for supporting FIRS? o_O 14:22:34 <andythenorth> also where is that? 14:23:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: email 14:23:20 <andythenorth> oic :) 14:23:36 * andythenorth never checks email, so I would be no good there 14:27:11 <Alberth> hola 14:27:51 <supermop> having trouble getting a map that makes the ideal quaint port for a screenshot 14:28:34 <Alberth> you can sculpture the land yourself :) 14:29:42 <andythenorth> supermop you know about ‘newgame’ in console? 14:30:00 <supermop> i no almost nothing about the console 14:30:11 <supermop> including how to spell know 14:35:19 *** Progman has quit IRC 14:35:35 <frosch123> andythenorth: Alberth: we did not add any of the glyphs to nml/eints, because they do not scale with the font selection. there were opinions to remove them completely, like we removed the setxy stuff in the past 14:37:30 <andythenorth> I could ship this http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8364/industry-window-text-6.png 14:37:48 <andythenorth> I like the ticks, but I had to remove them to placate coop Jenkins 14:38:08 <andythenorth> the ticks are neater 14:39:19 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 14:39:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 14:39:22 *** Progman has joined #openttd 14:40:57 <andythenorth> cargo label for Vehicle Bodies? 14:41:03 <andythenorth> Vehicle Parts is VPTS 14:41:08 <andythenorth> VBDS? 14:41:26 <andythenorth> or VBOD? 14:41:40 <frosch123> VBOD is better 14:41:44 <andythenorth> ta 14:41:51 <frosch123> the plural S is silly :) 14:41:58 <andythenorth> also that will now break my savegame :) 14:41:59 <andythenorth> nvm 14:45:48 * andythenorth has had 3-4 days of OpenTTD coding time :) 14:45:53 <andythenorth> it’s fun, when you get a run at it 14:46:01 <andythenorth> usually much interruptions 14:46:23 *** tokai has quit IRC 14:51:26 <Wolf01> I think I have some spare time today to work on that fantastic function for checking the availability of road/railtype 14:57:10 <andythenorth> o_O 14:58:15 <Wolf01> First: frosch123 you asked for a function to be used in gui, commands, and scripts, should the scope be passed as parameter or I must figure it out? 15:00:03 <frosch123> what is the scope needed for? 15:00:28 <Wolf01> Could be used to decide whether check on the company or not 15:00:40 <frosch123> i would pass the company as parameter 15:00:59 *** Progman has quit IRC 15:01:04 <frosch123> and not use _current_company, _local_company or other globals 15:03:33 *** Progman has joined #openttd 15:05:06 *** mescalito has quit IRC 15:06:43 <andythenorth> hmm 15:06:52 <andythenorth> and now the great FIRS Extreme rework begins :P 15:06:54 <andythenorth> by accident 15:07:02 * andythenorth regrets this in advance 15:09:27 <frosch123> make a browser-based puzzle game 15:09:56 <frosch123> build an economy with <N cargos and <M industries 15:10:49 <Wolf01> IsCompanyBuildableVehicleType() <- there are any not buildable vehicle types? 15:10:54 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds a bit like that "design an airport" minigame from ages ago, for the newairports that never happened 15:11:09 <frosch123> Wolf01: disaster and effect 15:11:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: factory smoke, steam puffs, submarine, ufo, ... 15:20:56 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd 15:22:43 <Wolf01> Mmmh, one thing I didn't consider, is it possible to disable a roadtype for a climate? 15:23:25 <Wolf01> There's a check in the dropdown build code "if (!HasBit(e->info.climates, _settings_game.game_creation.landscape)) continue;" but I don't know how effective it could be 15:24:38 <Wolf01> I copied it straight from rail_gui 15:24:46 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 15:24:57 <frosch123> that checks vehicle availability 15:25:02 <frosch123> "e" is a engine 15:25:49 <Wolf01> Yep, but it's for ROAD and TRAM, not for HAUL ELRD etc 15:26:10 <Wolf01> ? 15:27:40 <frosch123> that is just a line afterwards 15:27:46 <frosch123> first check basetype, then check subtype 15:32:09 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 15:32:31 <Eddi|zuHause> so wtf is up with my ISP lately... 15:33:02 <frosch123> they have trouble providing the cpu power required for filtering and logging 15:33:17 <frosch123> disable https and it may improve 15:33:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: NFO-wise you can check climate in an action6/7/9/D and skip the definiton of the roadtype. that's probably an if-block in NML 15:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: for the game that would mean the roadtype simply doesn't exist 15:35:14 <Wolf01> That's even better 15:35:56 *** Progman has quit IRC 15:36:47 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 15:36:47 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest1049 15:36:47 *** andythenorth_ is now known as andythenorth 15:36:57 <Wolf01> I would like to move the loops outside the dropdown building code 15:38:36 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 15:39:06 <Wolf01> Where's better to place them? vechicle.cpp or road.cpp/rail.cpp? 15:39:20 *** Progman has joined #openttd 15:39:24 <frosch123> road/rail 15:39:50 <frosch123> VehicleExistsForRoadType/RailType or something 15:40:01 <frosch123> possibly with a "now/somewhen" parameter 15:40:13 *** Guest1049 has quit IRC 15:40:37 <Eddi|zuHause> is there a vehicle_cmd.cpp? 15:40:54 <Wolf01> Yes, there is 15:41:11 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly groundvehicle or something 15:41:13 <frosch123> yes, but there is no equivalent function for ships or aircraft, and even road/rail would take different parameters 15:41:43 <frosch123> and the other road/rail functions are also in road/rail.cpp or roadveh/train.cpp 15:48:15 <supermop> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=75941 15:48:50 <andythenorth> nicely played 15:49:53 <supermop> ok lets see some steam tram screenshots in this month's steam themed screenshot of the month topic 15:49:57 <Wolf01> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p84xottja 15:52:00 <andythenorth> supermop: I should merge docklands into CHIPS :) 15:52:40 <frosch123> Wolf01: only_existing=true does not consider vehicle introduction and date-based roadtype introduction 15:52:42 <supermop> worst practices andy 15:53:04 <supermop> soon there will be only one andy.grf 15:53:15 <supermop> with everything included 15:53:16 <frosch123> i think only_existing=true requires a companyid, since vehicle availability is based on companies or so 15:53:47 <andythenorth> seems to me the types you’ve added are a facet of stations :) 15:53:56 <andythenorth> stick em in the station grf :) 15:54:05 * andythenorth knows it’s wrong, but eh 15:54:09 <frosch123> "use ground sprite from neighbour tiles" :) 15:54:42 <andythenorth> :P 15:56:08 <supermop> next need to make log flumes as roadtype 15:56:23 <frosch123> anyway, finally some dirt road :) 15:57:12 <andythenorth> I should make heavy haul vehicles compatible with it 15:57:15 <andythenorth> but they sink in 15:57:17 <andythenorth> 1mph 15:57:33 <supermop> frosch123: I'm waiting to see if andrew350 is going to split arrs into asphalt/dirt/cobble 15:57:37 <frosch123> add a refit option for bigger tires 15:57:43 <supermop> if not I might do it myself 15:58:05 <supermop> next we need heqs and egrvts forks 15:58:24 <supermop> and trolley busses in ogfx+rvs 15:58:32 <andythenorth> RV revival 15:59:04 <supermop> more rvs = more people making road types 15:59:14 <supermop> brb 16:00:00 *** Progman has quit IRC 16:01:49 <andythenorth> what’s left for NRT? o_O 16:01:58 <frosch123> script api :) 16:02:03 <frosch123> and what wolf is doing 16:05:57 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:15:00 * andythenorth looks at nogo for railtypes 16:16:48 <andythenorth> some 16:18:54 *** Gja has joined #openttd 16:20:47 *** Progman has quit IRC 16:22:49 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:25:56 <Wolf01> <frosch123> i think only_existing=true requires a companyid, since vehicle availability is based on companies or so <- something like this? HasBit(c->avail_roadtypes[rtid.basetype], rtid.subtype) 16:26:58 <Wolf01> But it's not really for the single vehicle, it is for the entire roadsubtype 16:27:19 <Wolf01> So at least one vehicle should exist for that, or should exist in future 16:35:28 <frosch123> i thought that is what "only_existing" was about 16:41:12 <Wolf01> I think you mean the second part, that one which does the actual job of filling the dropdown list 16:42:17 *** mescalito has joined #openttd 16:42:30 <Wolf01> I think I must add both loops in the function and then loop the result again in the places where is needed 16:43:09 <Wolf01> Loop or check for set bit 16:57:07 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#fertiliser_plant 16:57:14 <andythenorth> ^ could make that weird pseudo-primary 16:57:28 <andythenorth> as Haber process makes fertiliser from air 16:58:06 <andythenorth> it could produce x / month without any input 17:06:01 <Wolf01> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pn1c10m0z <- frosch123 17:09:06 <frosch123> i still do not understand what "only_existing" is supposed to do 17:10:02 <frosch123> you can replace the second loop with a single "&", right? 17:10:27 <frosch123> available_roadsubtypes = known_roadtype & company->avail_roadtypes[rtid.basetype] 17:10:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 17:11:02 <andythenorth> why does FIRS have min_cargo_distr set to 5? o_O 17:11:03 <frosch123> but at the same time i Company::avail_roadtypes is already a subset of known_roadtype 17:11:09 * andythenorth has no recollection 17:11:17 <frosch123> so you could just return Company::avail_roadtypes directly 17:11:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's the default value? 17:11:37 <Wolf01> But it doesn't have future ones 17:11:42 <Wolf01> For SE 17:13:11 <andythenorth> frosch123: is that definitely the default? Can’t figure out how to search for it in ottd src 17:13:20 <andythenorth> I can stop declaring it 72 times if it’s default :P 17:17:34 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pdivs5ok2 <- Wolf01: i think those are the 3 modes that make sense 17:18:45 <frosch123> andythenorth: there is no "default", it's just "what most do" 17:18:51 <frosch123> i think forests have like 24 or so 17:20:12 <andythenorth> seems FIRS has mostly 5, sometimes 1 or 2 17:20:13 <andythenorth> dunno why 17:20:30 <andythenorth> probably some ancient reason 17:22:00 <frosch123> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/IndustryDefaultProps <- see column 14 17:22:12 <frosch123> sometimes players get confused by high values 17:22:17 <frosch123> like the 30 of the forest 17:22:20 <andythenorth> oh yes 17:22:29 <andythenorth> ok 17:22:34 <frosch123> but in general i am unsure why that property exists in the first place :) 17:22:41 <andythenorth> +1 17:22:49 <andythenorth> the FIRS values might be an artefact of the automated conversion from nfo 17:31:40 *** zep has joined #openttd 17:44:41 *** Snail has joined #openttd 17:51:12 <andythenorth> hi Snail :) 17:52:06 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:55:33 <andythenorth> ha 17:55:46 <andythenorth> found a reproducible bug in adjacent station detection :) 17:57:19 <Snail> hey andythenorth 17:57:32 <Snail> looks like I could compile OTTD with Sierra 17:57:54 <Snail> after using Tej’s patch (from the forums) 17:58:09 <andythenorth> really? :) 18:00:08 <andythenorth> ach the error window doesn’t open near my station 18:00:13 <andythenorth> so the screen record missed it 18:00:14 <andythenorth> nvm 18:00:37 <andythenorth> it’s probably a feature 18:01:27 <Wolf01> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pwwa4fqnb is it any better now? 18:01:29 <andythenorth> adjacent check doesn’t apply when dragging from an existing tile 18:01:43 <andythenorth> actually quite neat, just never noticed it before 18:01:52 <Snail> andythenorth: nope… the executable file I created just crashed 18:02:06 <frosch123> Wolf01: if (e->company_avail != (CompanyMask)-1) continue; <- that line also needs the "any_date" check 18:02:12 <andythenorth> Snail: any message? 18:02:25 <Snail> looks like it wants libpng16 18:02:37 <Snail> but I need to keep 14, otherwise grfcodec crashes 18:02:50 <andythenorth> ha 18:03:08 <Snail> unless there’s a new version of grfcodec? 18:03:48 <Wolf01> "if (!any_date && e->company_avail != (CompanyMask)-1) continue;" ? 18:04:32 <andythenorth> Snail: I have libpng15 it seems 18:04:35 <andythenorth> grfcodec wfm 18:05:06 <frosch123> Wolf01: yes 18:05:31 <Wolf01> Also, is it _date the right variable? I didn't seem to find any other suitable 18:06:06 <frosch123> according to AcceptEnginePreview, it is 18:08:59 <andythenorth> Snail: seems my macports has libpng16 18:09:08 <andythenorth> dunno which one is actually used by grfcodec 18:10:46 <michi_cc> Snail: You can pass --with-png=.... to the configure script to get it to use another version, but I don't know the pkg-config command to give (configure --help will show the arg format) 18:11:47 <Snail> michi_cc: I will try to reconfigure now 18:12:12 <Snail> andythenorth: just do “ port installed libpng " 18:12:17 <Snail> it will tell you which one is active 18:12:30 <andythenorth> libpng @1.6.21_0+universal (active) 18:13:07 <andythenorth> libpng15 looks like it’s Apple supplied 18:13:55 *** zep has quit IRC 18:14:23 <andythenorth> but Security Update 2016-002 upgraded to libpng16, because <16 has a vuln 18:14:47 <andythenorth> and I have installed that, so eh 18:14:49 <andythenorth> dunno 18:15:25 <Alberth> michi_cc: grfcodec has no configure script :) 18:18:08 <Wolf01> Ok, the dropdown seem to work like before 18:18:17 <Snail> andythenorth: and grfcodec works for you? 18:18:41 <andythenorth> appears to 18:18:50 <andythenorth> I am digging through libpngs 18:19:01 <andythenorth> libpng15 looks like the remnants of a brew install 18:21:22 <Snail> this is hilarious 18:21:28 <Snail> now I activated libpng16 18:21:34 <Snail> and restarted ottd 18:21:41 <Snail> and it crashed because libpng14 is missing... 18:21:48 *** chomwitt1 has joined #openttd 18:22:30 <andythenorth> :) 18:22:43 <Alberth> the joys of having exactly one png lib :p 18:23:32 <Snail> alright, I’ll search for a new version of grfcodec 18:26:56 <Wolf01> frosch123, I published the changes as "can-build-vehicle-infrastructure", the new function is used just in the dropdown code, but I'll change the other function too 18:27:16 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 18:27:28 <Wolf01> Also version in title now shows nice japanese chars :P 18:28:06 * Wolf01 -> shower -> dinner -> lego batman movie 18:28:16 <frosch123> have fun :) 18:31:01 <Wolf01> Meh... last (and only) projection for today: 19:40 18:31:29 <Wolf01> Still do the first 2 steps 18:32:01 <Alberth> andythenorth: http://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/no_waiting.png ? now it has the default text :p 18:32:49 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 18:33:35 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:37:24 <Alberth> hmm, not interested, apparently :p 18:40:14 <Alberth> frosch123: started hacking to get the default "cargo waiting" message from the industry gui https://paste.openttdcoop.org/po9hcsvsy is what I have now, as you can see in the no_waiting.png link, it now displays the default industry text. Maybe that should be removed too? 18:41:36 <Snail> andythenorth: it works :) 18:41:37 <Alberth> under the assumption that everybody has set that bit to 0, I think it's compatible with current newgrfs 18:42:01 <Alberth> no andy here, Snail 18:42:07 <Snail> oh he left? 18:42:08 <frosch123> why would you want to remove the other text? 18:42:30 <Alberth> give newgrf author a clean sheet to start with 18:42:53 <frosch123> then that should be done via the text callback, if the author already uses that one 18:42:54 <Alberth> eg andy has that list too together with other text 18:43:30 <Alberth> ah, good point, let me try to find that :) 18:44:18 <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/New_Results#CB_37:_Industry_window_acceptance.2Fcargo_text <- there were also other ideas in the past 18:44:28 <frosch123> but as always, ideas change on an hourly level :) 18:50:27 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:50:39 * andythenorth got disconnected :P 18:50:46 <andythenorth> really odd wifi performance here 18:51:05 <andythenorth> dead spots 18:51:35 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 18:51:56 <andythenorth> Snail: so it works? On Sierra? 18:52:13 <Snail> andythenorth: yes 18:52:17 <Snail> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=75922&p=1182986#p1182986 18:52:26 <andythenorth> Alberth: that looks promising :) 18:52:33 *** Gja has quit IRC 18:52:34 <Snail> it did give me a zillion of warning messages, but the game seems to work fine 18:53:20 <Alberth> is there any large advantage to having an explicit handling of such a case rather than just give the author full freedom? 18:54:41 <andythenorth> potato / potato 18:54:59 <andythenorth> it would suit my case to have full freedom 18:55:12 <andythenorth> means I’ll have to recreate the default ‘Production last month’ stuff 18:55:18 <andythenorth> and I might run out of text stack 18:56:21 *** supermop has quit IRC 18:57:24 <Alberth> and that doesn't happen with CB 37 then? 18:57:52 <andythenorth> dunno, haven’t tried, but less likely 18:58:08 * andythenorth has cb 37 docs open right now 18:58:21 <andythenorth> for the FIRS case, I could push ‘supplied’ or ‘not supplied’ with cb 37 18:58:38 <andythenorth> and if we could lose the sillly ‘cargo waiting to be processed’ text, then my case is met 18:58:54 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 18:59:21 <andythenorth> cargo subtypes make me twitch, they are a bad idea that has leaked into too many places :D 18:59:25 <andythenorth> but it would work 19:01:26 <andythenorth> Alberth: what’s the implementation? Pure hack? 19:02:00 <Alberth> I think it's clean, I use bit 17 of industry behavior, which is currently not used (in the code) 19:02:41 <andythenorth> so it’s a flag? 19:03:17 <Alberth> "suppress 'cargo to be processed' text" flag 19:03:29 <andythenorth> currently, the ‘waiting’ text appears if bit 1 or 2 are set in prop 21, which is assumptive 19:03:42 <andythenorth> it assumes only gradual processing :P 19:04:33 <Alberth> ok, we can call it the "not gradual processing display flag" :) 19:04:52 <andythenorth> can we put it on prop 1A? https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Industries#Special_industry_flags_to_define_special_behavior_.281A.29 19:05:03 <andythenorth> oh that is your proposal 19:05:04 <andythenorth> nvm 19:05:08 * andythenorth catches up 19:06:15 <Alberth> yep, and I use bit 18, thus :p 19:06:27 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 19:06:42 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 19:07:14 <andythenorth> wfm 19:07:29 <frosch123> Alberth: https://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/cb37ecs.png <- that is how ecs does it 19:07:43 <frosch123> personally i consider the ecs method way better than firs 19:07:46 <andythenorth> frosch123: would the flag be an acceptable solution? Or would the cb be prefeable? 19:07:56 <andythenorth> yes, I am going to adopt cb 37 19:08:16 <andythenorth> I was slightly avoiding it because the ‘waiting to be processed’ text makes me sad :) 19:08:18 <frosch123> from a gui consistency view i would always put the input cargos to the top, with some cargo related info next to it 19:08:28 <frosch123> firs for some reason always does some wall of text at the bottom 19:08:49 <andythenorth> well the top is full of useless text :) 19:09:25 <andythenorth> I have stripped it down to http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8364/industry-window-text-6.png 19:09:36 <andythenorth> and the repeating of two cargos at the end is obviously silly 19:09:37 <frosch123> andythenorth: i don't care about flag or callback. it just should be a solution that make sense, and does not break after 2 weeks 19:10:00 <frosch123> iirc you already broke the wall-of-text callback in the past when running out of textstack 19:10:06 <andythenorth> yes 19:10:16 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd 19:10:18 <andythenorth> I had to redesign my text, is fine 19:10:26 <andythenorth> the thing about the flag, it’s adding more stuff to fix a design flaw, no? 19:10:45 <andythenorth> but I can’t think of any appropriate way to fix root cause 19:10:52 <frosch123> so, i stick to my opinion: the "supplies", "more required" message should be next to the cargo at the top 19:11:01 <andythenorth> agreed 19:11:04 <frosch123> putting it into the wall of text is bad from a gui pov, and also bad from a coding pov 19:11:05 <andythenorth> I’m converted to that view 19:12:02 <Alberth> In ECS, the top 4 lines are the 'to be processed' lines, and "Production this month:" etc is added, right? 19:12:30 <frosch123> from an ottd pov i would replace the "cargo waiting to be processed" with the "requires" text from https://devs.openttd.org/~alberth/no_waiting.png, except it would always print a separate line per cargo, instead of the comma-separation 19:12:59 <andythenorth> Alberth: ‘to be processed’ and ‘production this month’ are both default 19:13:07 <frosch123> Alberth: "production this month" is standard, you also see that in the no_waiting screenshot 19:13:10 <andythenorth> ‘Animals:’ and ‘Remain:’ are added 19:13:23 <Alberth> ah, ok, I am there :) 19:13:45 <frosch123> ecs only has debug info at the bottom :) 19:13:57 <Alberth> it's not debug info :p 19:14:08 <frosch123> it always look to me as if :) 19:14:19 <Alberth> I reported it once as such, and it was explained it was vital information about the industry :p 19:15:10 <andythenorth> and then I made FIRS :P 19:15:21 <andythenorth> ECS is nice, but not for me :) 19:15:25 <andythenorth> I don’t have enough brain 19:15:57 <Alberth> I can see the advantage of a line for each cargo, the question is whether we should enforce that, imho 19:16:21 <Alberth> I am +0.5 or so 19:16:21 <frosch123> imho yes :) 19:16:38 <frosch123> the wall of text makes stuff inconsistent, and is very limited wrt. amount of parameters 19:16:54 <Alberth> ok 19:17:13 <Alberth> and so the simple patch explodes :p 19:17:49 <frosch123> Alberth: the funny thing is, i think, andy is happy if we just change the string "Cargo to be processed" to "Requires:" 19:18:15 <andythenorth> spurious ‘amount waiting’ values still there then :) 19:18:34 <Alberth> yeah, silly "0" values :) 19:18:48 <frosch123> and possibly the other lines to "Vehicle parts (0 crates waiting)" 19:18:49 <Alberth> maybe you should add stockpiling :p 19:19:01 <frosch123> with a cb flag to disable display of the "waiting" part (per cargo) 19:19:12 <andythenorth> yup 19:19:18 <andythenorth> modify cb37 19:19:26 <frosch123> Alberth: i think andy actually has stockpiling, he just does not display it 19:19:32 <andythenorth> I do? :O 19:19:50 <frosch123> sure, you have lots of "cargo delivered within 3 months", so you stockpile for 3 months 19:20:02 <andythenorth> implicit :) 19:20:04 <Alberth> :D 19:21:03 <Alberth> I once coded to take 1/16 of the cargo with a minimum of 1 (or 0 if there is no cargo at all) for yetis, and that had the nice effect that cargo is slowly provided at the output 19:21:15 <Alberth> slowly ramping down 19:22:26 <Alberth> it's also stockpiling, but it has no explicit maximum 19:22:57 <Alberth> although you can't throw 255 every production cycle at it either 19:23:13 <Alberth> @calc 8*255 19:23:13 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 2040 19:24:02 <Alberth> hmm, should be 24K-ish, missing something there 19:26:44 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 19:44:52 <Alberth> "Do results 0800 to 0CFF make any sense?" <-- I think no, or at least not until a valid use case 19:48:04 *** supermop has joined #openttd 19:48:40 <supermop> hi 19:51:25 <supermop> not a bug, but a headache: 19:51:51 <supermop> I cannot convert town owned ROAD to ELRD 19:52:11 <supermop> so seems like trolley busses are going to be DOA 19:52:31 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 19:52:59 <frosch123> there is a TODO in the source about upgrading town roads :) 19:53:15 <andythenorth> results 0800 to 0CFF make sense if the header text (‘cargo waiting…’) can also be specified 19:53:24 <andythenorth> but otherwise it’s weirdly flexible 19:53:38 <andythenorth> author can provide anything, except it must follow the heading :P 19:54:51 <supermop> maybe nrt grf can specify in addition to a list of powered compatible types, types for which a conversion is a non-invasive upgrade 19:55:17 <Alberth> andythenorth: grfcodec paved the way for that :p 19:55:38 <supermop> specifically allow what to upgrade town owned roads to, so cannot grief by 'upgrading everything to a dirt road, or a road that disallows house growth 19:56:10 <frosch123> Alberth: isn't 800-cff just what andy wants? display no amount, but display "supplied" 19:56:43 <Alberth> I read it as "free text line for each cargo" 19:57:19 *** Biolunar_ has quit IRC 19:57:20 <frosch123> yeah, with some fine-print you can turn it into anything :) 19:57:21 <Alberth> so you can put down anything there 19:57:31 <andythenorth> I read it as any arbitrary string 19:57:36 <frosch123> wrt. the text at top, imho it should just say "requires" in all cases 19:58:16 <andythenorth> ‘Requires: 0 tonnes of grain’ ? 19:58:18 <Alberth> Requires: Steel (100 max) ? 19:59:06 <Alberth> not even sure if the industry has 100, or you must supply 100 20:00:42 <andythenorth> silly industry text :) 20:00:44 <Alberth> coding your own stockpile text is going to be tricky :p 20:01:41 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p0c88vvj1 <- the double parentheses look a bit stupid 20:03:20 <andythenorth> FIRS one looks good :) 20:04:30 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pfkn8wd4b <- using colon for the stockpile fixes it 20:05:29 <andythenorth> double colon :) 20:06:12 *** glx has joined #openttd 20:06:12 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 20:06:44 <Alberth> remove the colon after "Requires" 20:07:41 <Alberth> what is D00-D3FF textref stack 100...105? 20:08:02 <Alberth> newgrf supplied string with newgrf supplied stacks? 20:10:37 <Alberth> 0800-0CFF is not completely free text I see now, you always print the cargo first. Alright, that could work 20:11:27 <Alberth> would take a lot of work to make a good looking different layout from that 20:11:35 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pafao1c2t <- with cb result 20:12:03 <andythenorth> neater 20:13:06 <Alberth> ok, looks good 20:13:09 *** matt11235 has joined #openttd 20:13:25 *** matt11235_ has joined #openttd 20:16:25 <frosch123> ok, who wants to code it? 20:17:20 <Alberth> I can give it a try 20:17:30 <Alberth> unless you're bored :) 20:19:06 <frosch123> i was looking to a third breakfast 20:19:22 <frosch123> not sure whether it should be called dinner 20:19:29 <frosch123> but definitely not lunch 20:19:34 <V453000> slugfast 20:19:36 <V453000> slugnner 20:19:39 <V453000> slugnch 20:19:42 <LordAro> if it's with milk in a bowl, probably breakfast 20:19:45 <Alberth> food :) 20:20:14 <frosch123> it's not midnight snack yet 20:25:16 <frosch123> https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Unseen_University_Mealtimes <- ah, found a proper list 20:25:56 <andythenorth> breakfast is dinner in my house twice a week 20:26:01 <andythenorth> and I am definitely a grown up 20:28:12 <LordAro> i've had hardly any food in the house for days 20:28:21 <LordAro> need to go shopping.. 20:28:31 <supermop> what should I do with roads now? 20:28:46 <andythenorth> play test them :) 20:28:53 <andythenorth> half of newgrf is playtesting 20:28:59 <supermop> need more RVs 20:29:01 <andythenorth> half is posting here 20:29:07 <andythenorth> the actual coding is minimal 20:29:27 <supermop> need trolley trucks and dmu trams 20:31:27 <supermop> is heqs nml and gpl? 20:31:43 <frosch123> heqs is nfo, but gpl 20:31:52 <supermop> :( 20:31:59 <andythenorth> it’s a winning combo 20:32:06 <andythenorth> you now get to convert it to nml :) 20:33:06 <supermop> maybe ill look at ogfx+ or egrvts first 20:33:27 <frosch123> ogfx+ then :) 20:33:31 <frosch123> i think egrvts is nfo as well 20:33:39 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 20:33:39 <supermop> D: 20:34:27 <supermop> do you think a horse pulls a wagon faster on dirt or cobblestone? 20:34:44 <andythenorth> dirt 20:34:48 <supermop> dirt seems more comfortable for the horse but harder for the wheels 20:35:01 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 20:35:06 <supermop> I guess dirt /+ mud 20:35:07 <andythenorth> I have cobblestones outside my office, hard on wheels 20:35:10 <supermop> /= 20:35:44 <supermop> make it dependent on days since last rainfall 20:35:47 <frosch123> dirt is not hard on wheel, wheels are hard on dirt :p 20:36:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you missed the lesson in physics where they explained that forces always equally apply both ways 20:37:11 <andythenorth> you don’t fall through the floor because the floor pushes back 20:37:15 * andythenorth has a book about it 20:38:09 <andythenorth> https://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Science-Strong-Materials-Through/dp/0140135979 20:38:37 <frosch123> what if the floor only acts as multiplier for the centrigual forces? 20:38:58 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: now you have to complani that there are no centrigual forces, only centripedel or so 20:39:02 <andythenorth> also https://www.amazon.com/Structures-Things-Author-published-September/dp/B00Y2W5GH4/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1487450331&sr=1-6&keywords=Structures%3A+Or+Why+Things+Don%27t+Fall+Down 20:39:12 <andythenorth> good books 20:39:36 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd 20:40:11 <supermop> the concern is, DIRT having lower speed than cobble for trucks, but higher speed for horses and Subaru imprezas 20:40:24 *** Gja has joined #openttd 20:40:35 <andythenorth> I think I read this too, or one like it, which covers that most structural failures are corner cases https://www.amazon.com/Why-Buildings-Fall-Down-Structures/dp/039331152X/ref=pd_sbs_14_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=7VKMGE86WQBJAAAYTWF8 20:40:50 <supermop> i have that book 20:40:55 <andythenorth> edge cases are mostly known and calculated for, unless there is massive innovation 20:41:09 <andythenorth> whereas corner cases are combinatorial, and push beyond the parameters allowed for in the edge cases 20:41:45 <V453000> https://youtu.be/xF--1XdcOeM 20:42:54 <andythenorth> such 20:43:05 <supermop> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=50174 20:43:28 <supermop> has the same Italian truck photo I posted the other day 20:43:36 <supermop> so that's where we all saw it before 20:44:47 * andythenorth actually watches an F video 20:45:09 <andythenorth> the waves of flying stuff looks cool 20:46:16 <supermop> I wonder if it is faster to find out from this guy inactive from december if his set is gpl 20:46:28 <supermop> or to just make my own trolleybi 20:56:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 21:00:29 <andythenorth> {SKIP} 21:00:34 <andythenorth> is not in the nml docs :) 21:01:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it was removed, afaik 21:01:17 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Language_files 21:01:24 <andythenorth> it’s used in FIRS, dunno what it does 21:01:50 * andythenorth is trying to remove warnings about broken translation langs 21:02:28 <andythenorth> “Discard next word from stack” 21:03:17 <Eddi|zuHause> {SKIP} is a parameter that is ignored, like when you have two strings "{A} {B} {C}" and "{A} {C}", you can pass both the same parameters A,B,C if you change the second one to "{A} {SKIP} {C}" 21:03:59 <Eddi|zuHause> means you can reuse the same code to push the parameters to the stack 21:05:29 <andythenorth> it’s present in nml 21:05:34 <andythenorth> might just be missing from docs 21:05:41 * andythenorth can’t fix, can’t log in to wiki 21:06:24 <Eddi|zuHause> it might be under hidden/deprecated features 21:12:26 <andythenorth> not here https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/NML:Deprecated_syntax 21:13:16 <andythenorth> wiki search turns up nothing 21:14:21 <frosch123> it was removed from ottd lang files, since it is pointless there 21:14:32 <frosch123> nfo/nml still need it, because of the text stack 21:16:41 * andythenorth wonders why it was missing from lots of FIRS lang translations 21:16:49 <andythenorth> nvm 21:17:13 <frosch123> {SKIP} is pretty pointless in translation 21:17:24 <frosch123> possibly eints drops it from translations 21:17:29 <frosch123> and only allows it in base language 21:17:36 <andythenorth> ah 21:17:45 <frosch123> but no idea 21:17:51 <andythenorth> well nml complains about mismatched control codes 21:17:52 <frosch123> only guesses 21:18:07 * andythenorth will see whether all my fixes are removed by eints tomorrow 21:18:53 <andythenorth> such tidying :P http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions 21:19:00 <Alberth> nn 21:19:19 <andythenorth> bye Alberth 21:19:26 *** Alberth has left #openttd 21:44:29 *** ZirconiumX has quit IRC 21:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, how can skip be "pointless" in translations? certainly the order of parameters matters 21:46:10 <Eddi|zuHause> and possibly translations need parameters that english doesn't need 21:46:47 <frosch123> translations use {3:STRING} {1:COMMA} 21:48:36 <frosch123> {SKIP} in translations is something that the compilers deals with, not the translator 21:49:42 <Eddi|zuHause> so translations leave them out, like {STRINGn}? 21:49:55 *** Speedy has quit IRC 21:50:11 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:50:19 <frosch123> as, said, if you need to reorder parameters, {SKIP} is pointless 21:50:40 <frosch123> what would {3:STRING}{SKIP}{1:COMMA} mean? 21:51:14 <frosch123> {SKIP} defines register layout in the baselanguage, but it has no information in the translation 21:52:55 * andythenorth wonders why it’s used 21:53:17 <andythenorth> it’s in the primary supplies text 21:53:47 <frosch123> likely because you wanted to do STORE_TEMP(0x100, a), STORE_TEMP(0x101, b) instead of STORE_TEMP(0x100, a | (b << 16)) 21:54:39 <frosch123> or you have different versions of strings which use different amount of parameters, but you want to keep the same code to fill them 21:54:59 <frosch123> like when you have strings for 3, 2 and 1 input cargos 21:55:10 <frosch123> and other information in the other registers 21:57:47 <andythenorth> at 4X only one register is used http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/lang/english.lng 21:58:16 <andythenorth> so the skip would make sense there 21:58:26 <andythenorth> $someone wrote that for me :) 21:58:42 <frosch123> possibly me 21:59:02 <frosch123> i guess the two parameters have the amount for enhanced and gungho 21:59:12 <frosch123> but the gungho text does not display the enhanced requirement 21:59:21 <andythenorth> exactly 22:01:46 * andythenorth experimenting with cb37 http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8365/industry-window-text-7.png 22:07:37 <supermop> can we have some streets named after engineers other than james watt? 22:07:53 <andythenorth> more station names are possible 22:07:57 <andythenorth> but only one per industry 22:08:01 <andythenorth> no random 22:08:19 <supermop> supp. yard gets it as well 22:08:29 <supermop> in addition to machine shop 22:09:08 <andythenorth> on my ‘todo’ list :) 22:09:16 <andythenorth> I am not inventing the names though 22:09:26 <supermop> ha 22:09:33 <supermop> brunell? 22:09:37 <supermop> stephenson? 22:10:30 <frosch123> i guess station names are the other strings from the precious dcxx range 22:10:42 <andythenorth> ah, I might not add more then 22:10:43 <frosch123> so, more station names limit more cargos :p 22:11:07 <andythenorth> I am at 233/256 22:11:11 <frosch123> someone need to increase those limis :) 22:12:32 <andythenorth> probably not in 2017 22:13:56 <andythenorth> speedyzapgaming is good value in forums 22:13:58 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:17:17 <frosch123> i like canoes 22:17:43 <frosch123> but then he ran out of ideas for ship types 22:24:56 <Wolf01> Meh... I'm really bored to do 10 times the same thing in fallout 4, not being able to save is a plague 22:25:30 *** Snail has quit IRC 22:27:02 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 22:27:59 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 22:28:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i still have to go through 20 years of EU4 endgame... 22:28:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the time just doesn't seem to move forward at all 22:29:32 <Wolf01> Eh, but I'm like "get up - find something to do outside camp - get killed - autoload last autosave" 22:30:14 <Eddi|zuHause> ... and i had 10 years of regency, where i couldn't attack anybody 22:32:30 *** matt11235 has quit IRC 22:32:32 <Wolf01> Fast travel is disabled, illness is enabled, need to find something to eat (and that something usually tries to kill you) and drink, sleep, console disabled so I can't cheat, enemies (and you too, but does not count) do more damage 22:33:54 <Wolf01> I really liked the survival mode in new vegas, this one is "let's see how much it takes to give up" 22:34:17 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like games from the 80s 22:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> liks, before they invented monkey island 22:35:48 <Wolf01> Also ammo now has weight, I can't carry anymore 100+ fusion cores and 50 fat boys :( 22:36:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i've never actually played fallout 22:37:05 <Wolf01> It's a good game if you like the genre (TES-like), totally different than the first 2 ones 22:37:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know the genre 22:38:18 <Wolf01> Explore the fuck out of the world and make people angry with bad decisions, that is :P 22:46:14 *** skapazzo has quit IRC 23:00:07 *** markasoftware has quit IRC 23:15:22 *** Gja has quit IRC 23:18:04 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:22:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 23:23:36 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 23:29:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:39:37 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 23:42:29 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 23:42:51 *** Snail has joined #openttd 23:43:47 *** markasoftware has joined #openttd 23:46:27 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:59:15 <Wolf01> 'night 23:59:17 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:59:59 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd