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00:12:18 *** skapazzo has quit IRC 00:12:35 *** snadge__ is now known as snadge 00:12:39 <snadge> https://soundcloud.com/david-burrows-894102806/transport-tycoon-deluxe-intro-sc-880 00:58:19 *** Gja has quit IRC 00:59:19 *** Progman has quit IRC 01:14:36 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 01:27:37 *** Snail has joined #openttd 01:41:53 *** supermop has quit IRC 01:51:22 *** maciozo has quit IRC 01:53:28 *** supermop has joined #openttd 02:40:33 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 03:19:14 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 03:19:14 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 03:26:16 *** tokai has quit IRC 03:40:56 <snadge> has anyone thought about adding the 2014 music support somehow? 03:41:10 <supermop> huh? 03:41:35 <snadge> in 2014.. john broomhall re-recorded the music to transport tycoon deluxe, for the Android / iOS remake 03:41:39 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 03:41:47 <snadge> he used a real trumpet player, and saxophone player 03:42:10 <snadge> and allowed them to improvise.. basically just gave them artistic freedom and said, go for it 03:42:27 <snadge> the result is .. pretty cool 03:42:38 <supermop> yeah I've heard some of it 03:42:49 <snadge> its on youtube here in its entirety.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSFsrmLhC00 03:43:15 <snadge> i think he also might have played the keys.. i can hear some different effects and stuff as well 03:43:57 <snadge> so im thinking of buying the android version, and pulling apart the apk, because you can't buy the soundtrack.. which is pretty dumb 03:44:40 <snadge> so maybe we could patch the audio engine to be able to use the 2014 music, if you drop it in there, and select the option to use it 03:45:13 <snadge> i guess you can just play the youtube video in the background, and mute the music ;) 03:46:05 <supermop> well there are a few issues, but basically when transport tycoon was made in the early 90s, game music was basically midi or nothing 03:46:28 <snadge> right.. an mp3/ogg player would have to be patched into it 03:46:35 <supermop> so the game implemented it's own midi player 03:47:07 <snadge> the built in midi player is actually pretty good 03:47:35 <supermop> but now almost any computer playing the game will have other means to play music, and maybe even a better, dedicated means of playing midi music 03:48:16 <supermop> the game only really includes a midi player at all out of faithfulness for recreating the original game 03:48:44 <snadge> hmm.. i cant see the option to use the emulated midi 03:49:01 <snadge> i have mine redirected to a roland sound canvas 880 (external) 03:49:08 <snadge> and that sounds pretty sweet ;) 03:49:12 <supermop> I've never installed a base music set nor used the in game jukebox in the entire time I've used openttd 03:49:38 <snadge> its understandable, i mean.. if you're going to spend a significant amount of time in game 03:49:40 <snadge> it would drive you nuts 03:49:55 <snadge> i literally know every note to every single song 03:50:00 <snadge> lol 03:50:09 <supermop> if I listen to music why playing, it's always been some other source of music either on the computer or my stereo 03:50:17 <snadge> it plays in my head sometimes.. when im just doing every day things in life 03:50:53 <snadge> i haven't heard the openmsx version of the music.. it would probably offend me 03:51:23 <supermop> I don't think there is much need to bloat the game itself with a mp3 codec or whatever, as anyone would have other means to play the mp3s if they wanted 03:51:52 <supermop> openmsx is different music as it its all legally free 03:52:07 <supermop> public domain or newly created with an open license 03:52:35 <supermop> i've never listened to it myself, 03:52:36 <snadge> yeah but it probably wouldn't take much to add mp3/ogg support.. maybe a few hundred kb worth of dlls at the most 03:52:43 <snadge> then people would have an easier time of creating their own music sets 03:52:57 <snadge> but i dont know if there would be much call for it 03:53:04 <supermop> but why not just use whatever your favorite mp3 player is 03:53:15 *** glx has quit IRC 03:53:18 <snadge> and turn the inbuild music off.. exactly 03:54:02 <supermop> unlike modern games where the music needs to relate to cut scenes or the action, the transport tycoon music just plays through like an album 03:54:33 <supermop> so there really is no need to have it playing in the game itself 03:55:28 *** mescalito_ has joined #openttd 03:55:33 <supermop> also, even if mp3 support were added, the live transport tycoon music certainly could never be included 03:57:27 <snadge> no.. you would have to drop it in there like you currently have to anyway 03:57:32 <supermop> OpenTTD strives to be a legal, open source project, and the license of the music would preclude it 03:58:03 <snadge> i wonder how many people actually go to the trouble to use the original sounds/music/graphics.. since its not exactly straight forward.. i googled, and found a guide that told me which files etc 03:58:21 <snadge> of course from my licensed copy of ttd 03:58:45 <supermop> I only had TTO, not ttd, so I don't even own a copy 03:59:05 <snadge> so.. observation #1 .. the Pop preset on the sc880.. really brings life to the openmsx music track 03:59:05 <supermop> but I always play without music or soundeffects 03:59:14 <snadge> without soundeffects too? whut? :p 03:59:50 <supermop> level crossing bells get old after about the third time you hear them 04:01:06 *** mescalito has quit IRC 04:01:13 <snadge> the open music is not as terrible as i was expecting 04:01:57 <snadge> it peeves me that the sound canvas doesn't automatically note off.. so if you interrupt the track.. some sounds just hang indefinitely 04:04:40 <snadge> its not just the crossing bells.. its the cows mooing etc as well 04:13:54 <supermop> i have no idea how these nml templates are supposed to work 05:15:02 *** Snail has quit IRC 06:00:25 *** snadge has quit IRC 06:46:21 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 07:45:28 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:00:11 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 08:00:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 08:00:19 <Alberth> o/ 08:05:20 <Alberth> another issue with adding eg mp3, is that openttd is cross-platform, which means a lot of mp3 implementations are needed 08:05:54 <Alberth> note that afaik mp3 has its share of legal problems, so it's not really open 08:06:45 <Alberth> you'd be surprised on the number of people running the original graphics; the quality of those is a lot higher than opengfx 08:16:35 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 08:22:56 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:27:46 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:32:32 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 08:32:56 <andythenorth_> o/ 08:41:59 <Alberth> o/ 08:43:19 <andythenorth_> bbl, phone irc :p 08:46:17 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 09:01:48 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 09:04:28 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 09:06:26 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 09:12:19 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:12:42 <Wolf01> o/ 09:14:31 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 09:18:38 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 09:20:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 09:26:38 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 09:35:34 <Alberth> o/ 09:46:15 *** Supercheese has left #openttd 09:50:39 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 09:57:21 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 10:03:30 *** matt11235 has joined #openttd 10:10:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 10:17:46 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 10:19:44 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 10:25:02 <andythenorth> isn’t it 10:25:34 <Alberth> likely it is 10:26:28 <andythenorth> what shall I call it then? 10:26:33 <andythenorth> NotWaterFeatures? 10:27:07 <andythenorth> ^ Wolf01 thinking of starting a fork with experimental branches for docks, diagonal canals etc 10:27:19 *** maciozo has joined #openttd 10:28:05 <Wolf01> Ok, "notsomething" could be our distinctive brand :P 10:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> too close to "nosomething" 10:29:41 <andythenorth> new fork, or rename https://github.com/andythenorth/NotRoadTypes 10:29:55 <andythenorth> I can rename NotRoadTypes to NotSomething or NotStuff 10:29:58 <andythenorth> NotOpenTTD 10:30:16 <andythenorth> fork is overkill 10:30:32 <Wolf01> NotOpenTTD :D 10:30:43 <andythenorth> yeah 10:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: definitely a new fork 10:30:55 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: why? o_O 10:31:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so you have easier time merging the old fork 10:32:06 <andythenorth> it’s just git? o_O 10:32:17 <Alberth> yep, keeping separate things separate is easier 10:32:30 <andythenorth> if I rename it will break the git paths for people’s checkouts 10:32:34 <andythenorth> afaict 10:32:37 <andythenorth> that’s rude 10:33:34 *** ZirconiumX has joined #openttd 10:35:59 <Alberth> new fork ensures you're not using non-trunk stuff, since it's not there 10:36:52 <andythenorth> also reduces the temptation to merge lots of unrelated branches together ‘to see what happens’ :P 10:37:17 <Alberth> you can still do that, but not in a development branch 10:37:18 <andythenorth> it is github admin though, provisioning users etc 10:37:28 <Alberth> make a "merge all the things" branch :) 10:37:51 <andythenorth> making a whole new repo isn’t really how git development is supposed to work :) 10:38:00 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 10:38:11 <andythenorth> sledgehammer, nut 10:38:12 <Alberth> new branch from master origin/master works too 10:38:14 *** skapazzo has joined #openttd 10:39:35 <Alberth> unmerging things you slapped together is stuff for nightmares :) 10:39:55 <Wolf01> Meh... VLC can't convert a video, I can't understand why 10:40:29 <andythenorth> branch revert is usually ok, with...caveats 10:40:42 <andythenorth> anyway 10:40:51 <andythenorth> what’s the wish list for NotWater? 10:41:25 <Wolf01> Moar features 10:41:52 <Alberth> +1 10:42:21 <Wolf01> It would be a nice thing to have the water levels 10:42:30 <andythenorth> https://sites.google.com/site/boekabart/deepwater ? 10:42:36 <Wolf01> Exactly 10:43:27 <andythenorth> - diagonal river and canal tiles? 10:44:19 <Wolf01> Non destroyable rivers 10:44:26 <andythenorth> - rivers that respawn when bulldozed? 10:44:31 <Wolf01> ^ 10:44:40 <Alberth> why is water flooding useful? 10:44:44 <andythenorth> - or rivers that must remain connected (pathfinder) even if moved? 10:45:03 <andythenorth> Alberth: do the ideas, then the why later? o_O 10:45:18 <Wolf01> The flooding could be avoided at first step 10:45:18 <andythenorth> 50% of these are probably terrible terrible ideas :) 10:45:19 <Alberth> I'd start with non-destructible 10:45:37 <andythenorth> and 25% of ideas are probably at best ‘meh' 10:45:51 <Alberth> :) 10:46:10 <andythenorth> flat docks? 10:46:15 <andythenorth> multi-stop docks? 10:46:26 <Wolf01> These are really a killer feature 10:46:42 <andythenorth> limited ships per bouy? 10:47:24 <Alberth> not sure how feasible that is, you'd need some sort of reservation system so bouys don't get overrun 10:47:28 <andythenorth> ships which have a ‘size’ concept (occupy n slots per dock)? 10:47:53 <andythenorth> ship physics (engine hp, affects acceleration) 10:48:11 <andythenorth> ship physics: rivers have a flow direction, more powerful ships go faster upstream 10:48:38 <Alberth> sounds doable 10:48:46 <andythenorth> ship physics: hull drag coefficient 10:48:46 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: compose ship sprites of several smaller parts to avoid clipping 10:49:00 <andythenorth> what Eddi said 10:49:14 <Alberth> hull drag seems overkill, can't you do that with HP ? 10:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause> so they don't have one huge bounding box, but several smaller ones 10:49:39 <andythenorth> Alberth: yes, I was deliberately adding ideas that can be shot down :) 10:49:43 <Eddi|zuHause> hull drag might be relevant if you add moving water 10:49:54 <Wolf01> Btw, I would like to implement the idea of not having stations just for rails, a "build station" gui which allows to build a multi-tile station with the same graphics over road/rail as frosch proposed 10:50:08 <andythenorth> Wolf01: that’s Not NotWater 10:50:12 <andythenorth> that’s NotStations :) 10:50:27 <andythenorth> and yes, I was thinking about it 10:50:33 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 10:50:36 <andythenorth> non-routed station tiles / station objects 10:50:53 <Alberth> add some dock features, and you have nice non-stations :) 10:50:54 <andythenorth> with some UI to make them available trivially when building train / RV / airport / dock 10:51:38 <andythenorth> 2 tile or 1 tile locks 10:52:03 <Wolf01> Btw, for NotWater: articulated ships is a base requirement 10:52:14 <andythenorth> ha 10:52:23 <Wolf01> I want logging barges 10:52:56 <Alberth> :) 10:53:08 <Alberth> throw some logs into the river :) 10:53:32 <andythenorth> you’d want them arbitrarily composable? Like trains? 10:53:36 <andythenorth> or like RVs, pre-built? 10:53:41 <Wolf01> More like trams 10:53:52 <Wolf01> You choose the length 10:53:57 * andythenorth wondered about binning all ships and start again from scratch 10:54:05 <andythenorth> implementing them like trains, with defined routes that have to be built 10:54:18 <andythenorth> sea lanes 10:54:34 <Alberth> I somewhat do that, by adding bouys 10:54:45 <andythenorth> I don’t necessarily think it’s a good idea 10:54:49 <andythenorth> but worth considering 10:54:58 <andythenorth> no matter how much newgrf, ships are still quite lame 10:55:09 <Alberth> would give finer control over where ships go 10:55:32 <andythenorth> it’s a fork, so we don’t need to consider savegames :x 10:55:56 <andythenorth> or newgrf authors 10:56:16 <Alberth> it does need simple crossing though 10:56:28 <andythenorth> @calc 4/8 10:56:28 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.5 10:56:34 <Alberth> phew! 10:56:37 <andythenorth> I have made 50% of the ship sets, more or less 10:56:46 <andythenorth> so we can break newgrf, right? 10:57:02 <Alberth> "extend" is the right word :p 10:57:30 <Alberth> openttd would remain compatible however, for old savegames 10:57:55 <Alberth> so maybe a combination of old and new? 10:57:57 <Wolf01> Ferry between 2 fixed points (like a bridge, better if diagonal too) could be considered as NotWater? 10:58:53 <Alberth> it does stuff with ships :) 10:59:02 <Alberth> oh, multi-cargo ships? 10:59:14 <Wolf01> It's a fake ship, more like a canal feature 11:00:02 <Wolf01> Isn't "goods" already a multi-cargo? 11:00:06 <Wolf01> :P 11:00:47 <Wolf01> Pax+mail could be good, but I don't think we'll ever see a oil+logs ship 11:01:32 <andythenorth> - multi-cargo ships 11:01:33 <Alberth> you could put the logs in the oil to save space! 11:01:46 <ZirconiumX> Or build the ship out of logs 11:01:54 <andythenorth> import finished https://github.com/andythenorth/NotWater/ 11:08:09 <andythenorth> https://github.com/andythenorth/NotWater/issues/1 11:08:21 <andythenorth> does the background / proposition sound about right? 11:08:29 <Wolf01> Ideas are an issue :P 11:08:55 <andythenorth> I could have put it in the wiki I guess 11:09:05 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:09:23 <andythenorth> meta-critique :P 11:09:26 <andythenorth> what about the content? o_O 11:09:52 <Wolf01> I'll try an a* river feature for editor soon or later 11:14:46 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 11:14:56 <Alberth> Add an "idea" label to the issue :p 11:17:29 <Alberth> adding "moving" rivers need river direction, I think 11:17:44 <Alberth> as all rivers are connected through sea 11:18:52 <Alberth> also, what is the point of cb37 for building industries? 11:20:25 <Alberth> add dock stuff? or is that issue #2? 11:34:06 <planetmaker> o/ 11:34:14 <Wolf01> o/ 11:37:28 <Alberth> o/ 11:44:53 *** ZirconiumX has quit IRC 12:15:07 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 12:22:49 <Alberth> o/ 12:26:25 <andythenorth> Alberth: issue #1 is overview and scope 12:26:31 <andythenorth> then I’ll link it to other issues 12:26:35 <andythenorth> it’s like a story ticket 12:26:40 *** frosch has joined #openttd 12:26:41 <andythenorth> such project management :P 12:27:08 <frosch> hoi 12:27:18 <Alberth> you should make tickable items - [ ] foo 12:27:21 <Alberth> hola 12:27:44 <andythenorth> cb 37 when building - I assume it will show the subtype text in the ‘fund industry’ menu 12:27:57 <Alberth> it does 12:28:26 <andythenorth> I think the originally intended subtype use there is highly misleading 12:28:46 <Alberth> but it doesn't make much sense, as there is no concrete cargo or so 12:28:46 <andythenorth> looks like an industry requiring ‘Food (bread)’ wouldn’t acccept ‘Food (cakes)' 12:29:09 <andythenorth> I wonder if it’s used by any grf 12:30:08 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 12:30:18 <Wolf01> Quak 12:34:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 13:10:10 <andythenorth> updated https://github.com/andythenorth/NotWater/issues/1 13:13:26 <Wolf01> Btw, I like 3 tile locks, but they must be working realistically with ship that stops in the middle and raising/lowering the ship... better if only 1 at time 13:15:37 <frosch> locks do not make much sense, if you want to make rivers traversable 13:15:51 <frosch> locks would be something for more than 1 height level 13:17:27 <frosch> make locks 2-4 tile while requireing 2-4 height levels? while making ships travel 1 height level per 3 tiles distance? 13:18:10 <Alberth> do ships fit in a lock? 13:18:47 <Wolf01> Articulated ships in a lock is not feasible 13:19:13 <Wolf01> Like an oil tanker in a lock 13:19:22 <Wolf01> specially for 1-2 tile lock 13:19:35 <frosch> same holds for rivers :) 13:19:39 <frosch> locks are river-like 13:19:47 <frosch> oil tankers also do not fit into rivers 13:19:57 <Alberth> fair enough 13:20:03 <Wolf01> If one wants to build a "Panama channel" diorama, it should be possible 13:20:05 <frosch> or canals 13:20:28 *** matt11235 has quit IRC 13:20:32 <frosch> maybe locks always have width 1 then? 13:20:36 <frosch> while canals can be broader? 13:23:07 <Wolf01> Canals should be broader, ships should collide, so if you want to have bidirectional canals you must have >=2 tiles 13:23:18 <andythenorth> I’ll put a sub-list 13:23:21 <andythenorth> ‘locks' 13:23:24 <andythenorth> and some of the ideas 13:23:46 <andythenorth> my objection is that rivers pretty much require locks 13:23:58 <andythenorth> and they’re rarely straight 13:24:03 <andythenorth> so most of my rivers end up as canals 13:24:06 <andythenorth> seems pointless :) 13:25:22 <frosch> Wolf01: btw. ttdp has that travel vertically in locks 13:25:33 <frosch> it does not look as well as it sounds 13:25:48 <Wolf01> I remember it, it needs proper animation 13:26:10 <frosch> problem with ships staying in place is that they overlap even more 13:26:33 <frosch> and you do not want to go down the eddi route :p 13:26:56 <Wolf01> Don't make ships overlap, that is :P 13:27:56 <andythenorth> in my last game I built all my canals as 2 tiles 13:28:03 <andythenorth> just to see the ships better 13:28:14 <andythenorth> they seem to neatly stick to one drive side 13:28:35 <Wolf01> I usually put buoys on locks entrances to force ships not using the same lock in different directions 13:30:05 <andythenorth> dunno if I really captured all the ideas :) https://github.com/andythenorth/NotWater/issues/1 13:30:11 <Alberth> andy, do you have a firs for extended cb37? 13:31:00 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/revisions 5243 and 5244 13:31:15 <andythenorth> or http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/ 13:31:21 <frosch> andythenorth: btw. with "ships travel 1 height level per 3 tiles distance" i mean "travel without lock" 13:31:42 <Alberth> playing dangerous, latest breaking trunk :) 13:31:45 <Alberth> thanks 13:32:29 <andythenorth> frosch https://github.com/andythenorth/NotWater/issues/1 13:33:44 <andythenorth> canals are uni-directional? o_O 13:34:00 <andythenorth> ships gain equivalent of reserved tiles? 13:34:11 <andythenorth> so no collisions, but they reserve x tiles 13:34:22 <andythenorth> if a ship can’t reserve any forward path, it’s deadlocked? 13:34:33 <Alberth> wouldn't just direction be enough 13:34:43 <andythenorth> dunno 13:34:48 <Alberth> probably allowing perpendicular too 13:34:50 <andythenorth> considering alternatives :) 13:35:12 <Alberth> you definitely want to ships after each other 13:35:17 <andythenorth> each canal has two bi-directional lanes 13:35:24 <andythenorth> but larger ships reserve both :P 13:54:39 <andythenorth> bbl 13:54:40 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:56:46 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 14:00:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 14:21:24 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 14:31:02 <supermop> yo 14:34:18 <supermop> is it impossible to make a template for properties that all trucks of a generation share in regular nml? 14:36:04 <frosch> regular nml has templates only for spritelayouts 14:36:16 <frosch> s/spritelayouts/spritesets/ 14:36:59 <supermop> :( ok 14:37:25 <supermop> well I already commented out my templates last night and added the stuff to each truck individually 14:37:47 <supermop> now apparently no sound is not a valid choice 14:37:56 <supermop> no_sound? 14:38:04 <frosch> i also mute every game 14:38:14 <frosch> it's one of the downsides of factorio 14:38:22 <frosch> you can only turn down the volume, but not really mute 14:38:51 <frosch> haven't checked lately, but at some point it was impossible to disable the intro music 14:39:14 <frosch> but it is not that loud, so if my regular music is loud enough, it does not matter :) 14:41:03 <frosch> i hope V does not make the music of f, or he will be upset again :p 14:58:02 <supermop> haha 15:02:17 <supermop> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pvcs4s7kg 15:02:38 <supermop> nmlc complaind about line 177 "item" 15:03:02 <supermop> but not for line 102 15:04:10 *** Progman has quit IRC 15:10:26 <supermop> oh I miss a } before it 15:15:08 <supermop> now it saws 'unknown string' 15:17:28 <supermop> i have "name: string(STR_NAME_MKI_T_GOODS);" 15:18:22 <supermop> nmlc complains that "STR_NAME_MKI_T_GOODS" is an unknown string 15:22:57 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 15:23:48 <supermop> what does unknown string mean? the string is defined exactly as that in the lng file 15:24:22 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 15:24:29 <supermop> is "name:" the wrong way to use the string? I copied it from ogfx+ 15:24:34 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 15:25:08 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 15:30:18 <andythenorth> paste the line of code 15:31:13 <supermop> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pdexptbss 15:31:57 <supermop> in that paste it would be line 6 15:34:07 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 15:37:04 <Alberth> in lang/english.lng? 15:37:29 <supermop> STR_NAME_MKI_T_GOODS:Bufo Motive Works 'GP' Trolley Truck 15:39:29 <Alberth> so that should work 15:40:48 <Alberth> line 3 looks a bit short? 15:41:15 <supermop> ooohh 15:41:16 <supermop> oops 15:43:54 <supermop> soooo I had been working in the lng file as a txt file then saving it to lng 15:43:56 <Alberth> ogf seems to have 3 arguments, no idea what the 3rd one means 15:44:17 <supermop> but the lng file was out of date and missed that string 15:44:19 <supermop> sorry 15:44:29 <supermop> ogf? 15:44:37 <Alberth> ogfx 15:44:50 <supermop> huh 15:45:38 <Alberth> some of the project names use "opengfx-" others use "ogfx-" as prefix 15:46:19 <Alberth> so for me, they all mean "opengfx" :) 15:54:05 <supermop> http://imgur.com/a/klmjc 15:54:19 <supermop> offsets need some work I guess 15:59:37 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 16:02:58 *** Gja has joined #openttd 16:04:04 <Alberth> would increase traffic safety :) 16:08:15 <supermop> ok changing y offset did noting? 16:16:52 <Alberth> perhaps you changed bounding box ? 16:17:47 <supermop> http://imgur.com/a/T0jgk 16:17:48 *** matt11235 has joined #openttd 16:18:41 <supermop> now the issue is, cannot string up wires over town owned roads 16:19:20 <supermop> meaning, paradoxically, it is much, much harder to build a trolley bus line in a city than a tram line 16:19:32 <supermop> as you have to destroy all the existing road first 16:25:17 <supermop> should I add some 2cc stripes before releasing? 16:29:50 *** Snail has joined #openttd 16:35:16 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:37:26 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 16:53:55 *** supermop_ has joined #openttd 16:59:28 *** supermop__ has quit IRC 17:02:06 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 17:03:24 *** gelignite has quit IRC 17:13:07 <Wolf01> Town roads should be upgradable to a compatible type 17:15:19 <Wolf01> I also always found annoying to not being able to make town roads one way 17:15:37 *** Progman_ has joined #openttd 17:17:53 *** Progman has quit IRC 17:18:08 *** Progman_ is now known as Progman 17:18:15 <Wolf01> And if you are able to destroy the town road, place your own and make it one way, the limit should just be the local authority rating 17:23:24 <supermop> Wolf01: please try https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=75963 17:23:43 <supermop> frosch and andythenorth too pls 17:23:58 <supermop> there are lame easter eggs 17:24:21 <Wolf01> I'll try it later, I'm dying of back pain and sleepness right now 17:32:11 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:32:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:33:31 <supermop> that does not sound fun 17:38:56 <supermop> ooooh I discovered a workaround 17:39:18 <supermop> build trolleybus stops on the town road then remove the stop 17:40:00 <supermop> only works on straight road but then you get town owned wires 17:42:23 * andythenorth is mostly afk :) 17:42:26 <andythenorth> but releases are good 17:42:43 <supermop> ok problem: can build trolleybuses in non electric depots 17:44:21 <supermop> property is "road_type: ELRD; " 17:44:32 <supermop> but it runs fine on regular road 17:45:06 <andythenorth> what’s ELRD defining? 17:46:20 <supermop> trolley grf doesn't define ELRD anywhere 17:46:29 <supermop> docklands is loaded 17:49:53 <supermop> If I play a game without docklands, hence no ELRD, trolleybuses still available in ROAD depot 17:50:47 <andythenorth> does docklands define ELRD? 17:50:57 <supermop> yeah 17:51:11 <supermop> but vehicles show up even without it 17:58:31 <frosch> ottd knows about ELRD by default 17:58:52 <supermop> ok 17:59:26 <frosch> there is a blank at the start of your grf's name btw :) 17:59:33 <supermop> but I set the road_type to ELRD, but they seem to still be ROAD vehicles 17:59:34 <frosch> don't put spaces after the ":" in the lng files 18:00:24 <frosch> can you paste your source somewhere? 18:01:32 <supermop> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pcg8lbsti 18:01:59 *** supermop__ has joined #openttd 18:02:18 <supermop> ignore the common properties part that's commented out 18:03:55 <frosch> i see, we made nml<->ottd slightly inconsistent 18:04:03 <frosch> you need a roadttype_translationtable 18:04:32 <frosch> i guess this should be fixed in nml 18:04:58 <supermop> what does that table do/ do you have an example? 18:05:31 <frosch> add "roadtypetable { ROAD, ELRD }" at the top, after grf {} 18:05:38 <frosch> (i believe that is the syntax) 18:05:44 <Eddi|zuHause> it matches whatever roadtypes you use in the grf to the ones that are actually defined in the game 18:05:57 <supermop> ok 18:06:06 <supermop> just that would fix it? 18:06:14 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 18:06:20 <Eddi|zuHause> because you can't assume that the types are always there, or defined in the same order 18:06:20 <frosch> yes, as a work around, but we should fix nml to make it also work without :) 18:06:28 <frosch> Eddi|zuHause: no 18:06:31 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 18:06:50 <frosch> the thing is that nml knows about default road and railtypes 18:07:20 <frosch> but ottd actually does not accept default-roadtypes unless explicitly defined, to make old rv/tram sets compatible 18:07:37 <frosch> but ottd behaves differently for roadtypes vs. railtypes 18:07:45 <frosch> s/vs/compared to/ 18:14:00 <supermop> ok works as expected now 18:14:08 <supermop> will update post 18:14:47 <frosch> i pushed a fix to nml, though in this case "fix" means that it would not compile the grf without the roadtypetable 18:15:12 <frosch> so, no advantage in upgrading for you :) 18:16:05 <supermop> thanks 18:16:10 <supermop> :) 18:16:13 <supermop> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=75963&p=1183291#p1183291 18:16:18 <supermop> fixed/updated 18:16:49 <supermop> as is trolley buses can go to drive in stops 18:16:59 <supermop> that's intended 18:17:16 <supermop> but open to differing opinions 18:17:56 <supermop> they can also overtake each other, which is unrealistic, but I want them to be able to pass regular trucks, which is realistic 18:18:16 <supermop> and major advantage irl vs. trams 18:20:49 <supermop> is it possible to make a dual mode truck that can drive on ROAD, but has more power on ELRD? 18:21:24 <frosch> yes 18:21:38 <frosch> set the property to ROAD 18:22:04 <frosch> and add a "power" case to the "graphics" section, which goes to a switch, which checks "current_roadtype" 18:22:08 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 18:31:47 <frosch> supermop: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pckw1l2ei <- something like that 18:41:17 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 18:41:20 <supermop> cool thanks! 18:41:59 <supermop> I might add a new generation but have the same time scale 18:42:25 <frosch> thanks as well :) good that someone uses it 18:44:30 <supermop> well now we can test things like how to electrify town roads 18:45:39 *** Speedy has quit IRC 18:45:46 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27748 trunk/src/lang/polish.txt (2017-02-25 19:45:38 +0100 ) 18:45:47 <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints: 18:45:48 <DorpsGek> polish: 1 change by wojteks86 18:57:00 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 19:02:31 <andythenorth> supermop: I am probably going to do trolley-assist mining trucks 19:02:44 <andythenorth> it’s completely stupid for gameplay, but I don’t think I’ll be able to resist :P 19:03:10 <andythenorth> I did same with an engine in IH; bad ideas that we do ‘because we can’ :D 19:09:46 *** Snail has quit IRC 19:10:13 *** Snail has joined #openttd 19:10:44 *** Snail has joined #openttd 19:11:22 *** Snail has quit IRC 19:11:49 *** Snail has joined #openttd 19:12:40 *** Snail has joined #openttd 19:13:24 *** Snail has joined #openttd 19:13:46 *** Snail has quit IRC 19:14:08 *** Snail has joined #openttd 19:14:33 *** Alberth has left #openttd 19:14:34 *** Snail has quit IRC 19:14:51 <Wolf01> andythenorth: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/67/c2/03/67c20320ace14988c9e0822fde088407.jpg 19:15:04 *** Snail has joined #openttd 19:15:44 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 19:16:32 <andythenorth> yes 19:17:01 <Wolf01> Also the ETF one, maybe a consist of them in HAUL :D 19:17:36 <Wolf01> http://www.autolatest.com/upl/imgupl/trucks/2012/popup/iata-cel-mai-mare-camion-de-mina-din-lume-etf-mining-trucks-2012--60.jpg 19:22:32 *** supermop has quit IRC 19:31:42 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 19:48:20 *** matt11235 has quit IRC 19:59:13 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 20:01:23 * andythenorth considers a micro economy 20:01:26 <andythenorth> mining 20:02:53 <andythenorth> dragline -> primary crusher -> final crusher -> bulk ore terminal 20:03:10 <andythenorth> would need a tailored base set for the landscape though eh :P 20:18:27 *** Speedy` has joined #openttd 20:18:47 *** Speedy` is now known as Speedy 20:43:42 <Wolf01> Seem that V is into mining too 21:30:34 <supermop_home> Tonka trucks? 21:31:02 <supermop_home> the trolley/panto Tonka trucks look BA 21:33:30 <supermop_home> :( no downloads yet 21:37:00 <supermop_home> ok whats the greater priority now, given that I personally cannot fix the ELRL on town roads issue? more generic non-electric trams? road grf with dirt roads? 21:37:47 <supermop_home> andythenorth: bucket ropeway as roadtype? 21:38:59 <frosch> supermop_home: forum download counter has been broken for years 21:39:17 <supermop_home> :,,,( 21:40:03 <supermop_home> i hope the truck names are neither offensive nor too verbose 21:40:16 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 21:47:21 <supermop_home> hmm on 20 tile test track, higher top speed of default truck wins over higher hp of trolleytruck 21:47:39 <frosch> also uphill? 21:48:16 <supermop_home> no hills. next ill add more stops 21:49:07 <supermop_home> oh accel was on original 21:51:24 <andythenorth> :) 21:52:55 <supermop_home> ok now with a hill climb straight up 10 height levels 21:53:07 <supermop_home> wish we had regenerative brakeing 21:54:48 <supermop_home> hmm the trolley truck looks much faster on the hill but its only a 2 day difference on timetable 21:54:58 <supermop_home> maybe it needs even more power 21:55:44 <supermop_home> regular is 223 hp for 12t, trolley is 700 for 10t 21:56:57 <supermop_home> the effect is much more noticeable on stop and start traffic than even on steep hill climbs 22:00:41 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:02:59 <supermop_home> frosch is it possible to have a running cost switch for decelerating ? 22:03:49 <andythenorth> do both trucks weigh the same? 22:04:08 <supermop_home> and even more exotic: vehicle is already at top speed but gravity wants it to accelerate 22:04:22 <supermop_home> andythenorth: trolley truck 2 tons lighter 22:04:41 <frosch> supermop_home: i think some ukrs version had that 22:04:57 <frosch> but generally that is kind of pointless micro management 22:05:10 <supermop_home> watching this truck run downhill I want some of that free electricity back 22:05:13 <frosch> unless you play like rondje, every truck will go as much uphill as downhill 22:05:23 <frosch> so jsut pick an average running cost in the first place 22:06:12 <supermop_home> what if it goes downhill with full load, and uphill empty? I should be selling the extra electricity back to the power company 22:07:06 <supermop_home> then at night time when the power is cheap we drive all of the load back up the mountain to repeat tomorrow :) 22:09:29 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:12:12 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 22:15:20 * andythenorth needs zzz 22:15:21 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:21:33 *** Snail has quit IRC 22:21:55 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:22:30 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:23:30 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:23:56 *** Snail has quit IRC 22:24:17 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:25:03 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:35:49 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 22:39:15 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 22:39:24 *** frosch has quit IRC 22:51:48 *** RedirectLeft has quit IRC 23:11:06 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:14:46 *** skapazzo has quit IRC 23:23:19 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 23:26:11 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 23:29:32 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 23:32:08 *** Wormnest has quit IRC