Log for #openttd on 14th March 2017:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:01:59  <samu> if (this->state == FLYING) ++this->current_flight_time /= _settings_game.vehicle.plane_speed;
00:02:34  <Wolf01> Brrr
00:02:50  <Wolf01> It looks so wrong
00:02:55  <samu> :(
00:03:14  <Wolf01> Use some {} and split it in 3 lines please
00:03:52  <samu> 0 + 1 /4 = 0
00:03:54  <peter1138> ++x->y /= z? What?
00:04:02  <samu> because integer math sucks
00:05:06  <samu> time never increases :(
00:05:23  <samu> but i need to take plane speed factor into account
00:05:30  <peter1138> I'm not surprised with your made up syntax.
00:07:14  <samu> why is computers doing / so sucky
00:07:47  <samu> i don't get 0.25 + 0.25 + 0.25..., i get 0 + 0 + 0 + 0...
00:08:10  <peter1138> Oh gosh.
00:08:15  <peter1138> You really have no idea how computers work do you?
00:08:36  <samu> i guess i don't
00:11:23  <Wolf01> Screen and saved.
00:15:35  <samu> uint64 real_cft = a->current_flight_time / _settings_game.vehicle.plane_" target="_blank">game.vehicle.plane_speed / _settings_game.vehicle.plane_" target="_blank">game.vehicle.plane_speed;
00:15:50  <samu> if (this->state == FLYING) ++this->current_flight_time *= _settings_game.vehicle.plane_speed;
00:16:33  <samu> multiplies by 4, only to divide it by 4 twice
00:16:51  <Wolf01> Please, more
00:17:09  <samu> flight time is being done tickly
00:17:13  <samu> not daily
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00:19:00  <peter1138> Does it giggle?
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00:20:31  <samu> ffp dart, with a max speed of 947, goes from right corner to left corner of the map in 3168 *4 / 4 / 4 ticks
00:21:05  <Wolf01> Yes
00:21:38  <samu> 792
00:21:44  <Wolf01> You know that you can even simplify the *4/4 with a *1?
00:22:14  <samu> i need to think
00:22:19  <peter1138> Yes, you should try that.
00:22:37  <samu> gonna try a speed factor 1/3
00:22:46  <Wolf01> Still *1
00:23:55  <samu> i need to count the time with the plane speed factor taken into account
00:24:15  <samu> if i change the speed mid flight, i still want it to count correctly
00:27:57  <samu> oh crap
00:28:06  <samu> i'm terrible at math
00:29:31  <Wolf01> What makes you think so?
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00:34:01  <samu> if (this->state == FLYING) this->current_flight_time += _settings_game.vehicle.plane_speed;
00:37:52  <samu> @calc 12672 / 4
00:37:52  <DorpsGek> samu: 3168
00:37:59  <samu> nice, got it
00:39:05  <Wolf01> But what happen if you change the setting mid flight?
00:39:34  <samu> probably bad stuff :(
00:41:05  <samu> @calc 7122 / 3
00:41:05  <DorpsGek> samu: 2374
00:41:19  <samu> @calc 7122 / 3 / 3
00:41:19  <DorpsGek> samu: 791.333333333
00:41:31  <samu> @calc 12672 /4 /4
00:41:31  <DorpsGek> samu: 792
00:42:52  <Wolf01> Oh... that's weird
00:46:10  <samu> seems so simple, but i'm stuck
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00:49:14  <samu> @calc 791 / 1 / 1
00:49:14  <DorpsGek> samu: 791
00:49:23  <Wolf01> Samu...
00:50:06  <samu> @calc 3166 / 2 / 2
00:50:06  <DorpsGek> samu: 791.5
00:50:31  <samu> well, they're all around the same constant value, that's something, but now I'm stuck
00:54:21  <Wolf01> You should also account for diagonal speed
00:56:46  <samu> i changed plane speed mid flight
00:57:10  <samu> current_flight_time 8638 unsigned short
00:57:31  <samu> this is not right
00:57:58  <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27794 trunk/src/network/network_chat_gui.cpp (2017-03-14 01:57:52 +0100 )
00:57:59  <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#6526]: Chat text background overflowed due to missing padding.
01:00:22  <samu> pff, i'm not sure what I'm doing, guess i better go to bed, get fresh ideas tomorrow
01:00:29  <Wolf01> Yes
01:01:02  <samu> well, cyas, take care all
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01:03:40  <Wolf01> And full moon was 2 days ago
01:04:41  <peter1138> :)
01:05:30  <Wolf01> Btw, I think I'll go to bed too, I want to be here when this madness continues
01:05:57  <Wolf01> 'night
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08:55:38  <Wolf01> o/
09:01:11  <crem> \o
09:02:20  <ZirconiumX> \o
09:02:25  <Wolf01> I had nightmares after that discussion... XD
09:02:30  <ZirconiumX> (morning everyone)
09:10:45  <peter1138> :-)
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09:15:16  <Wolf01> o/
09:15:22  <andythenorth> moin
09:15:33  <Wolf01> Andy, read logs, please
09:15:57  <Wolf01> Such "calc 791 / 1 / 1"
09:16:58  * andythenorth does maths like that too :)
09:17:14  <andythenorth> constant 1 = 8
09:17:20  <andythenorth> constant 2 = 8
09:17:33  <andythenorth> production / (constant 1 + constant 2)
09:17:57  <Wolf01> But "++x->y /= z" is a shiny diamond
09:20:23  <crem> Is ++x an lvalue?
09:20:31  <crem> I thought it's not.
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09:20:56  <crem> Can you do "int a = 5; ++a = 10; "?
09:21:37  <Wolf01> Even if you can do, it's really difficult to understand at first sight
09:21:59  <ZirconiumX> crem: Not in that context, but x is a pointer in Wolf01's example
09:22:11  <andythenorth> Wolf01: such patches? o_O
09:22:18  * andythenorth is refactoring FIRS
09:22:30  <crem> Indeed it's lvalue.
09:22:36  <ZirconiumX> So ++x->y is "add one to the memory address of x and access y"
09:22:46  <crem> I understand the snippet.
09:22:55  <crem> I just simplified it.
09:23:15  <crem> It's indeed lvalue, and  "int a = 5; ++a = 10; " compiles.
09:24:14  <ZirconiumX> What's a then?
09:24:35  <ZirconiumX> That sounds like it's borderline undefined due to sequence points
09:24:49  <Wolf01> crem, trust us that's black magic
09:25:10  <crem> In the end? It's unspecified most probably, yes.
09:25:58  <ZirconiumX> According to, GCC without -O emits
09:26:15  <ZirconiumX> Add 1 to a, then a = 10
09:26:23  <ZirconiumX> Resulting in a being 10
09:27:12  <crem> That's how it's logical to work, but I think it's unspecified behaviour because there're two mutations between sequence points.
09:29:26  <ZirconiumX> Even at -O1, GCC converts it to "a = 10"
09:29:48  <Wolf01> IMO he tried to study c/c++ here:
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09:36:10  <andythenorth> Wolf01: o_O ??
09:36:25  <Wolf01> Oh, longer list
09:36:59  <andythenorth> if we had deep water, we could let GS control it :P
09:37:05  <Wolf01> :D
09:37:22  <andythenorth> I don’t think it adds much except a way for a GS to mess with you :)
09:37:34  <andythenorth> there was a whole edition of Railroad Tycoon with changing sea levels
09:37:46  <peter1138> < sounds horrible
09:38:09  <andythenorth> peter1138: george has a lot of ideas
09:38:11  <andythenorth> like, a lot
09:38:21  <andythenorth> he’s an idea machine
09:38:29  <peter1138> Yeah, but a secret stealthy way to make a vehicle last longer...
09:39:05  <andythenorth> it would be probably on a cargo subtype hack, I assume
09:39:38  <andythenorth> well it’s not the way *I’m* making grfs
09:39:39  <andythenorth> but eh
09:39:45  <andythenorth> who says I’m right? :P
09:40:01  <Wolf01> BTW, I'm fine with locks for more height levels, but we should have 2 different river slopes, one with rocks and one without, so ships could use the one without
09:40:02  <ZirconiumX> I would, really
09:41:48  <andythenorth> Wolf01: I am +0.9 to that
09:42:08  <andythenorth> maybe rocks should be a random chance, 1 in 5 or so
09:42:16  <andythenorth> rivers are totally nerfed atm
09:42:20  <Wolf01> Also... falls, different river size based on tile height?
09:43:01  <andythenorth> river generation should be able to make bigger rivers
09:43:08  <andythenorth> yes
09:43:16  <Wolf01> Yeah... the current ones are moats
09:43:29  * andythenorth wonders if ‘rapids are 1 in 5 chance’ is an easy patch
09:43:36  <andythenorth> famous last words :P
09:43:47  <Wolf01> Also there is no chance a ship would travel to a mountain peak along a river...
09:43:48  <ZirconiumX> It's easy until you start coding
09:43:52  <peter1138> :D
09:44:11  <andythenorth> probably needs an ‘is rapids’ bit
09:44:18  <andythenorth> and savegame migration and so on
09:44:41  <andythenorth> or a ‘tile is navigable’ bit and no savegame migration :P
09:45:31  <Wolf01> Just make it a setting (only for map generation, like map height)
09:45:55  <Wolf01> Rivers over 16 tile height are rapids
09:46:06  <andythenorth> interesting
09:46:28  <Wolf01> For old saves it matches the map height, so no river is "converted"
09:47:31  <andythenorth> does ship pathfinder need converted?
09:47:44  <andythenorth> or does concept of navigable / non-navigable slopes already exist?
09:48:09  <andythenorth> peter1138: I’m applying frosch approach: ignore all feature requests ;)
09:48:15  <andythenorth> then they all look valid
09:48:26  <peter1138> I closed some.
09:48:29  <Wolf01> Currently no slope is navigable
09:48:52  <andythenorth> do locks have a bit?
09:48:55  * andythenorth is away from docs
09:49:07  <peter1138> Oh hey, I had a patch for locks didn't I?
09:49:12  <peter1138> But it made ships worse...
09:49:23  <andythenorth> what did it do? o_O
09:49:34  <peter1138> Stops the ships to me them go up and down.
09:49:40  <andythenorth> sounds tedious
09:49:43  <andythenorth> :D
09:50:15  <peter1138>
09:50:16  <peter1138> That one.
09:50:45  <Wolf01> It just missed some lock animation
09:51:08  <andythenorth> those ships are awful :)
09:51:10  <andythenorth> who made them?
09:51:19  <ZirconiumX> "you did"
09:51:27  <ZirconiumX> :p
09:51:41  <peter1138> Not really that would require 1) extra graphics 2) making locks accept only 1 ship at a time. And that would make locks far worse.
09:52:24  <ZirconiumX> Is this a case of intentionally being unrealistic to avoid making ships worse?
09:53:21  <peter1138> There was a massive backlash against anything vaguely "realistic" so we don't bother.
09:54:11  <andythenorth> also we’d have to have newgrf graphics
09:54:22  <andythenorth> to allow correct locks for specific locations
09:54:28  <andythenorth> then a choice of locks, like stations
09:54:35  <andythenorth> and a filling-rate property or callback
09:54:40  <andythenorth> and chance of lock breakdown
09:54:49  <andythenorth> and a state machine for correct animation
09:54:54  <andythenorth> and a max ship length
09:54:59  <andythenorth> meanwhile
09:55:06  <Wolf01> It doesn't make ships worse, it makes them challenging, also we have all the freedom we want... locks and rivers aren't some original feature and we can change it
09:59:17  <peter1138> I'm pretty sure there was an issue trying to make the water move up & down as well.
09:59:31  <peter1138> And then you might think, oh have multiple locks to speed it up
09:59:39  <peter1138> But then you need to adjust the pathfinder...
09:59:41  <peter1138> And then...
10:00:52  <Wolf01> andythenorth, tensorflow used to make music
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10:09:57  * andythenorth biab
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10:10:14  <samu> hi
10:11:06  <peter1138> Wolf01, that's... awkward.
10:11:25  <Wolf01> Yeah, I'm really impressed
10:11:50  <peter1138> Shame the piano synth is unbearable.
10:12:39  <crem> Undistinguiashable from what a human would generate!
10:13:20  <Wolf01> Computers will replace us someday :D
10:13:40  <peter1138> THE HUMANS ARE DEAD
10:14:45  <Wolf01> I would like to know what they will think after some centuries... "why humans died?"
10:15:17  <crem> But this thing generates ok-ish music (to be played as background in videos)
10:15:38  <crem> Registration required to generate, so don't bother.
10:15:53  <Wolf01> <- stunning how I could jump from music to lego trains in a blink
10:16:10  <peter1138> The internet!
10:16:57  <Wolf01> This one looks like lego factorio
10:18:06  <samu> how do i get the maximum value that can be set on a setting? i wanna avoid magic number stuff
10:18:17  <Wolf01> INT_MAX
10:18:18  <samu> _settings_game.vehicle.plane_speed , i know the range is from 1 to 4
10:18:27  <samu> i want to get the max value
10:19:18  <samu> if (this->state == FLYING) this->current_flight_time += 12 / _settings_game.vehicle.plane_speed;
10:19:22  <samu> that 12
10:19:23  <peter1138> hehe
10:19:33  <peter1138> 12
10:19:41  <Wolf01> I expected 42
10:20:03  <samu> i wanna change it to 3 * max value of _settings_game.vehicle.plane_speed
10:20:25  <samu> which is 4
10:20:57  <Wolf01> That is a nice way to have a divisible integer.. just make sure it is multiplied by the nearest common multiple
10:21:20  <samu> oh, so it's a bad way to do it
10:21:37  <Wolf01> I didn't say that
10:21:40  <peter1138> Bah, 140 miles behind target.
10:22:41  <samu> but i see what you mean
10:31:05  <samu> if the cap is changed to 5 in some new version of openttd
10:31:21  <samu> 3*5 = 15
10:31:58  <Wolf01> Use 60 then
10:32:02  <samu> but then 15/5, 15/4, 15/3, 15/2 and 15/1 won't all result as integer
10:33:13  <samu> yeah, 60 is the answer, but how do i calculate that
10:33:21  <samu> how do i get to that
10:34:20  <samu> how to compute the "divisible integer"
10:35:44  <Wolf01>
10:37:42  <samu> nice, thx
10:40:30  <peter1138> Why does current flight time care about plane speed anyway
10:45:00  <samu> because if the factor is modified, it will travel more tiles in less times
10:45:19  <samu> or less tiles in more time
10:45:52  <samu> perhaps i should rename it
10:47:20  <Wolf01> I would calculate it on plane size
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11:01:15  <samu> "the least common multiple of consecutive integers"
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12:44:13  <Wolf01> ahahah smart kid
12:44:25  <andythenorth> yeah
12:44:32  <andythenorth> they do that
12:45:35  <Wolf01> Too bad that when they grow up they become brainless idiots
12:47:43  <Wolf01> I blame society
12:49:27  <Wolf01> V's dog...
12:52:57  <planetmaker> lol @ wolf :)
12:55:37  <samu> how do i get the max value of a setting
12:56:18  <samu> something like int x = _settings_game.vehicle.plane_speed
12:56:36  <samu> but for the maximum value that can be set
12:56:46  <samu> not the currently set valuye
12:57:32  <Snail> @calc 30/2.5
12:57:32  <DorpsGek> Snail: 12
12:59:04  <__ln__> oh, microsoft's bing translator translates to/from klingon!
12:59:41  <Wolf01> Samu, do you even try?
12:59:53  <samu> i tried, don't know how to do it
13:00:30  <samu> seems that i need SettingsDesc
13:00:59  <samu> have to access settings.ini
13:01:05  <samu> settings.h i mean
13:01:29  <samu> table/settings.h
13:01:30  <__ln__> Dun jaj batlhchaj tera' 'ej tlhInganpu'.
13:02:14  <Wolf01> Lol
13:03:17  <samu>
13:03:26  <samu> this is what i've came to
13:03:40  <Wolf01> Too bad it doesn't work with visual translation for eastern languages
13:03:46  <samu> for (int i = 1; i <= 4; i++) {
13:03:53  <samu> this line was supposed to be
13:04:19  <samu> for int i = min value of game settings bla bla; i <= max value of game settings bla bla; i++) {
13:04:36  <samu> how do i retrieve those values :(
13:04:52  <peter1138> Do you think it will ever change?
13:04:53  <Wolf01> You said that, SettingDesc
13:04:59  <LordAro> samu: generally, by searching through the code for existing examples
13:05:19  <LordAro> evidently no one else knows
13:06:14  <samu> i know it's going from 1 to 4, but it can change some day, i dunno
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13:06:21  <peter1138> More like nobody else wants to do something so hideous.
13:06:30  <LordAro> probably that too
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13:09:37  <LordAro> samu: however, it looks like you want GetSettingFromName
13:09:41  <LordAro> and go from there
13:10:17  <samu> ok, let me try
13:23:49  <peter1138> < i'm definitely ashamed of that patch
13:24:30  <andythenorth> that’s standard UI programming :P
13:24:34  <andythenorth> it’s always a hack
13:25:54  <LordAro> haha
13:31:39  <Wolf01> lol
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13:57:27  <supermop> man work vpn is so slow
14:03:49  <supermop> andythenorth: is 2cc trams can't be persuaded, and zeph is missing
14:04:25  <supermop> I guess next step is i try to add more nrt stuff in a ogfx+ add on?
14:04:48  <supermop> there are a couple abandoned trolleybus sets out there
14:05:23  <planetmaker> supermop, I guess, with proper version query, this can be simply added to stock ogfx+
14:05:58  <planetmaker> though not entirely sure... would need to check how to find out the openttd version in a non-linear way, I guess
14:14:57  <supermop> sounds like the solution is to just go ahead and squeeze nrt in before the 1.7 release in two weeks
14:15:08  <supermop> :)
14:15:38  <samu> uint plane_speed_max = GetSettingFromName("vehicle.plane_speed", &plane_speed_max)->desc.max;
14:15:45  <samu> thx LordAro, i did it
14:16:14  <andythenorth> planetmaker: for Road Hog I just branched
14:16:17  <samu> if (this->state == FLYING) this->current_flight_time += CommonWhatever(plane_speed_max) / _settings_game.vehicle.plane_speed;
14:16:26  <andythenorth> jenkins hates me, because I had to specify an nml path on my local OS
14:21:44  <andythenorth> quick!! unrelease 1.4.0
14:26:04  <ZirconiumX> How would you even go about that?
14:26:31  <ZirconiumX> Unreleasing something
14:27:12  <Wolf01> <supermop> sounds like the solution is to just go ahead and squeeze nrt in before the 1.7 release in two weeks <- cool but no... to many missing features, I don't want a bunch of awesome grfs which need to be reworked when road sidings and other flags will be added
14:29:04  <planetmaker> andythenorth, branched what? OpenTTD?
14:29:20  <planetmaker> or that newgrf to get the nrt stuff in? I guess that :)
14:29:28  <planetmaker> I guess branching is the easiest, yes
14:29:29  <andythenorth> planetmaker: I branched Road Hog yes ;)
14:29:49  <andythenorth> jenkins has no way to use the forked nml compiler though
14:30:06  <planetmaker> hm... forked nml... that's more difficult yes
14:30:38  <planetmaker> it has ways to use it, but it needs probably ssh to the server
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14:30:47  <planetmaker> in order to setup that stuff
14:30:49  <planetmaker> quak
14:31:12  <Wolf01> Quak
14:31:50  <planetmaker> andythenorth, where's the nml fork?
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14:33:03  <andythenorth>
14:33:35  <planetmaker> oh... :|
14:34:21  <planetmaker> that definitely excludes it from adding it quickly, sorry
14:34:50  <andythenorth> it could be pushed to devzone
14:34:56  <andythenorth> but eh
14:35:05  <andythenorth> it’s fine for me, I can compile locally :)
14:35:10  <andythenorth> but jenkins has angry red
14:35:16  <planetmaker> ?
14:35:16  <andythenorth> maybe I should disable builds on the branch
14:35:29  <andythenorth>
14:36:12  <andythenorth> oh actually maybe it’s python failing there
14:36:35  <andythenorth> when it starts going continuosly red, errors get ignored :)
14:37:31  <planetmaker> you always break stuff. That's why I'm not concerned about red on your projects :P
14:38:05  <andythenorth> I try to keep them green, but eh
14:38:25  <andythenorth> I don’t read email, and I’m not much in coop channel, so I miss the warnings
14:39:06  <ZirconiumX> *cough* Travis
14:39:09  <ZirconiumX> Sorry.
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14:39:15  <planetmaker> it anyway dwindled down to a build log
14:39:25  <frosch123> moi
14:39:27  <planetmaker> and thus a status log of your builds :P
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14:59:47  <andythenorth> so reproing OS X bugs like this one….
15:00:02  <ZirconiumX> POSOSX
15:00:08  <andythenorth> needs the correct version of OS X, correct OpenTTD and the correct version of all newgrfs?
15:01:59  <frosch123> worse :)
15:02:11  <andythenorth> same hardware? o_O
15:02:14  <frosch123> you need also an ottd server to connect to which reproduced the same event sequence
15:02:22  <andythenorth> so it’s never happening eh? o_O
15:02:32  <frosch123> on the plus side, i don't think it would be osx related
15:02:33  <andythenorth> unless we somehow virtualise the whole world, and do it in a simulation
15:02:53  <andythenorth> actually simulated reality would kick ass for bug fixing
15:03:02  <andythenorth> we should work on that
15:03:10  *** supermop_home_ has joined #openttd
15:03:22  <frosch123> step 1: get rid of all human players?
15:04:23  <frosch123> step 2: clarify whether that includes V
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15:05:49  <andythenorth> step 2 takes a while
15:06:13  <__ln__>
15:06:15  <frosch123> step 2 is always the difficult part
15:06:18  <frosch123> but step 3 is profit
15:06:21  *** supermop has quit IRC
15:07:06  <andythenorth> is it a tube race __ln__ ?
15:07:12  * andythenorth didn’t watch to end
15:07:23  <__ln__> it is
15:07:31  <andythenorth> think my brother tried that
15:07:34  <andythenorth> probably lost
15:07:55  <Alberth> o/
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15:12:40  <andythenorth> if FIRS wasn’t 483279 lines of nml, would it compile faster? o_O
15:12:40  <andythenorth> :P
15:15:26  <Alberth> delete the empty lines :p
15:15:36  <ZirconiumX> andythenorth: computers boot faster when they have less to load, so if you wipe your hard drive they boot immediately
15:15:36  <Alberth> and all double white-space :p
15:15:56  <Alberth> ha :)
15:16:11  <Alberth> my first computer booted from ROM, now that was fast :p
15:16:21  <ZirconiumX> Exactly
15:16:42  <Alberth> disconnect the HD  :p
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15:18:30  <Alberth> o/ supermop
15:18:59  <frosch123> old computers were also really fast to turn off :p
15:19:21  <Alberth> my fedora  gnome is quite fast with that, tbh
15:20:07  <Alberth> now it would be useful if it could also open a gui window :p
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15:21:27  <andythenorth> biab
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15:33:01  <peter1138> derp
15:34:16  <peter1138> There was never a use for fast ships, was there?
15:34:33  *** supermop_home has joined #openttd
15:34:50  <crem> Before 20th century there were.
15:34:50  <Alberth> well, on occasion, people want race ships :p
15:35:16  <crem> Actually yes, for entertaiment for sure.
15:35:17  <Alberth> speedy delivery of them mailbags
15:35:20  <peter1138> Yeah but... 80km/h+
15:35:22  <peter1138> ?
15:35:42  <peter1138> (Convert to knots as pedantic)
15:36:04  <Alberth> don't you know realism limits apply selectively?
15:36:35  <peter1138> More like adding complexity for no reason
15:37:03  <Alberth> that too, but not a player consideration :)
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15:47:39  <frosch123> peter1138: i believe people tried to make ecranoplanes as ships
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15:54:55  <samu> i'm undecided if I store this variable as uint16 or uint32
15:55:30  <samu> @calc 65535 / 74 / 4
15:55:30  <DorpsGek> samu: 221.402027027
15:56:17  <samu> 221 days in flight
15:57:09  <crem> That's not extremely realistic.
15:57:25  <crem> Also, probably passengers are a bit bored after 221 days.
15:57:35  <samu> in openttd days
15:57:38  <samu> game days
15:57:39  <crem> But they surely know all each other well.
15:59:16  <samu> ‭4294967295‬@calc
15:59:18  <samu> oops
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15:59:54  <samu> @calc 4294967295 / 74 / 4
15:59:54  <DorpsGek> samu: 14510024.6453
16:00:02  <crem> @google Calories in 400 tons of butter.
16:00:24  <samu> this many days
16:00:45  <samu> @calc 14510024 / 365
16:00:45  <DorpsGek> samu: 39753.490411
16:01:02  <samu> 39 753 years
16:01:36  <samu> is there a middle container, something between uint16 and uint32?
16:01:50  <Alberth> not for storage
16:02:06  <Alberth> you can of course only use 20 bits of the 32 :p
16:02:27  <Alberth> or 24 bits (3 bytes)
16:02:51  <samu> uint24?
16:03:03  <Alberth> doesn't exist
16:03:42  <Alberth> don't worry about that single byte, it's not worth the trouble
16:04:03  <samu> isn't uint32 something quite too large to be computed daily for all aircraft?
16:04:12  <samu> erm, not daily, tickly
16:04:35  <samu> rip performance
16:04:47  <crem> 32-bit arithmetics are the same, if not faster, than 16-bit one.
16:05:26  <crem> For x64 the same is true for 64-bit numbers.
16:05:27  <Alberth> the real saver in performance would be not to increment ticks each tick
16:05:50  <crem> How many ticks are there per second?
16:06:22  <Alberth> crem: there is the L1/L2 cache issue :p
16:06:47  <Alberth> longer numbers use more cache
16:07:22  <crem> Well.. ok :)
16:07:44  <andythenorth> uint24? o_O
16:08:02  <andythenorth> oh that was said already
16:08:04  <andythenorth> trolling fail :)
16:08:24  <Alberth> o/ andy
16:08:55  <crem> uint24 would be slower than either uint16 and uint32 on many architectures due to alignment.
16:09:10  <crem> (need to read 2 machine words in some cases rather than 1)
16:09:20  <samu> i think 221 days in flight can occur on very large maps
16:09:23  <frosch123> 20 years ago, graphics card had uint24 :)
16:09:38  <frosch123> and floppys had fat12
16:09:51  <Alberth> if you have a few million aircraft, 24bit makes sense
16:10:05  <crem> It's memory usage vs of performance tradeoff.
16:10:19  <crem> And samu was worried about performance.
16:11:00  <Alberth> save the start time, and performance ceases to be a problem
16:11:57  <Alberth> samu: what is supposed to happen?
16:12:07  <Wolf01> o/ Alberth
16:12:14  <samu> there's plane speed factor which can be changed at any time
16:12:27  <Alberth> is $random long flight time to know exactly to the tick?
16:12:28  <samu> anywhere
16:12:49  <samu> at any tick, i think
16:13:03  <Alberth> ie does it make a difference beteen 221 and 220 days, eg
16:13:16  <Alberth> or is "long" enough to store?
16:13:46  <samu> probably doesn't make a difference, i could try counting it every day, just wanted to be as thorough as possible
16:14:24  <samu> but then changing the plane speed factor might affect the result slightly
16:14:44  <Alberth> it's less flying or something?
16:15:13  <Alberth> o/ Wolf01
16:15:37  <samu> sec, let me copy paste patch
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16:16:55  <samu>
16:17:13  <samu> this is what i have so far... just noticed i mixed lifetime profit patch with it, lol
16:17:30  <samu> ignore the lifetime profit stuff, it's not mine
16:19:41  <samu> line 145 is to be edited yet, i have not finished it
16:19:55  <peter1138> yeah well what are you even doing with this flight time thing?
16:20:18  <samu> breakdown the aircraft
16:20:27  <samu> if it goes past a certain value
16:20:35  <samu> which i have yet to figure out
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16:22:06  <peter1138> and you want it to be affected by plane speed?
16:22:29  <Wolf01> I tried to tell him to calculate it based on plane size :(
16:22:34  <samu> only the plane speed factor
16:23:11  <peter1138> so when plane speed makes planes slow, they can last longer? or less time?
16:23:16  <Alberth> start with the simplest possible form of counting, then figure what you actually want
16:23:28  <Alberth> +out
16:23:53  <samu> basically they will travel the same distance before the plane enters breakdown, no matter the plane speed factor that is set
16:24:10  <samu> at least that's what i was trying to achieve
16:24:27  <peter1138> ok
16:24:46  <peter1138> why not just use distance?
16:25:06  <samu> which distance? between stations?
16:25:37  <samu> because aircraft can be ordered to go somewhere else mid flight
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16:28:59  <samu> also, aircraft travel faster on axis than diagonal, wouldn't be accurate
16:29:17  <LordAro> accuracy is not something ottd's known for
16:29:21  <andythenorth> so I’ve got #includes in my generated nml
16:29:26  <andythenorth> but they don’t exist in my repo :P
16:29:29  <Wolf01> Livery also changes air drag, red is fast
16:32:54  <andythenorth> oh
16:33:04  <andythenorth> file was open in text editor, unsaved to disk
16:33:10  <supermop_home> ive done that
16:33:45  <andythenorth> editor has a multiple-files search, but that looks at editor state of any open files, not filesystem state
16:33:46  <andythenorth> oops
16:33:51  <LordAro> everyone's done that
16:34:03  <andythenorth> I thought the editor was 100% using the disk
16:34:14  <andythenorth> as it has to select a path :P
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16:35:35  <samu> trying to figure out a "max_distance_before_forced_breakdown" value now
16:36:11  <samu> not really distance distance
16:36:23  <samu> distance with plane factor accounted
16:36:47  <samu> i dunno what to call the variable, but it's of that nature
16:38:13  <peter1138> Hmm, I guess that affected everyone's task list on flyspray...
16:38:41  <peter1138> Added the last edited column, but it seems to be project wide not per user.
16:39:14  <Wolf01> Yes, it's project wide
16:39:25  <peter1138> Oops.
16:39:35  <Wolf01> But IIRC there's something for users too
16:39:42  <LordAro> peter1138: heh
16:39:45  <andythenorth> new flyspray :P
16:39:47  <andythenorth> move it all!
16:40:35  <samu> currently sending an helicopter accross a 4096x4096  map in debug mode... zzzzz
16:40:59  * LordAro hears TB screaming in the background
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16:42:11  <samu> wanna see its final flight_counter value
16:42:52  <peter1138> Hmm, better not commit all these Console.WriteLines...
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16:43:26  <samu> why is debug mode so slow :(
16:43:31  <andythenorth> debugging innit :)
16:43:51  <Alberth> press FF :p
16:44:04  <samu> it's sluggish
16:45:50  <samu> gonna try release mode, i can't wait this long, hope i can still read value
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16:52:21  <andythenorth> just 3 #defines left in FIRS
16:52:27  <andythenorth> what is done, is not always easily undone :P
16:53:05  <andythenorth> and this is how we learn about separating data from presentation
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16:53:17  <andythenorth> although /me already knew about that, and is removing other people’s work :)
16:56:22  <samu> @calc 4096 / 256
16:56:22  <DorpsGek> samu: 16
16:56:38  <samu> @calc 28000 * 16
16:56:38  <DorpsGek> samu: 448000
16:59:13  <samu> 0x7FFFF
17:00:00  <samu> 2^19
17:00:03  <peter1138> ++x->y /= z
17:00:04  <peter1138> surely
17:00:35  <samu> @calc 2^19
17:00:35  <DorpsGek> samu: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number.
17:01:19  <samu> @calc 2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2
17:01:19  <DorpsGek> samu: 524288
17:01:44  <samu> there is no uint19 :(
17:02:46  <LordAro> why does that matter?
17:02:55  <LordAro> that would be ridiculously inefficent to implement
17:03:26  <andythenorth> isn’t there something about allocating memory in 8s? :P
17:03:30  <Alberth> make a 1 bit computer, and hook 19 of them after each other
17:03:32  * andythenorth is not a programmer
17:04:36  <Alberth> transputer did something in that direction iirc
17:05:18  * LordAro needs to write some stuff about that at some point
17:05:49  <samu> well, i'm probably changing it to uint16, limit would be around ~221 days in flight
17:06:12  <samu> or maybe i should count it daily instead of tickly
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17:07:07  <samu> and lose some accuracy
17:07:30  <LordAro> you're allowed to use an integer bigger than you need
17:07:30  <andythenorth> Alberth: this transputer? o_O
17:08:32  <Alberth> think so
17:09:56  <andythenorth> eventually became XMOS, near my office :)
17:10:17  <andythenorth> I know David May, the co-inventor of the transputer, although only approximately :)
17:10:47  <Alberth> doesn't seem to talk about 1 bit computers that you connect
17:11:10  <Alberth> although it had very advanced multi-tasking capabilities
17:12:12  <Alberth> synchronous communication between processes, in hardware
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17:15:51  <andythenorth> yeah can’t find any 1 bit things there :)
17:18:49  <andythenorth> Alberth: the CPP is nearly gone from FIRS…that clears the way for a....
17:18:55  <andythenorth> …new makefile :D
17:19:04  <Alberth>    they do exist :p
17:19:51  <andythenorth> o_O
17:20:10  <Alberth> not sure how makefile and not running cpp is connected, but \o/  :)
17:21:28  <andythenorth> less complexity
17:21:35  <andythenorth> therefore easier replacement
17:22:13  <Alberth> fair enough :)
17:22:50  <Alberth> computer with lots of blinking lights always wins :)
17:23:12  <LordAro> ^
17:23:40  <andythenorth> says they had to blink the lights deliberately, for effect :)
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17:41:54  <peter1138> hi
17:42:42  <samu> helicopter has arrived!
17:42:52  <samu> flight_counter 419853 unsigned __int64
17:42:55  <peter1138> Did it autorenew?
17:43:16  <samu> crossed a map from right to left, 4096x4096 tiles
17:43:24  <samu> the 321 km/h heli
17:44:58  <samu> that is... many days
17:45:13  <samu> @calc 419853 / 74 / 4
17:45:13  <DorpsGek> samu: 1418.4222973
17:45:16  <samu> 1418 days
17:46:11  <samu> much higher than the cap of ~221
17:47:06  <samu> yeah, think it's time to store this in days insted
17:47:24  <samu> @calc 65536 / 4
17:47:24  <DorpsGek> samu: 16384
17:47:49  <samu> brb
17:51:19  <andythenorth> oops
17:51:26  <andythenorth> threw my backup drive across the room :P
17:52:29  <ZirconiumX> Not much of a backup now
17:53:57  <LordAro> do you have a backup backup?
17:54:43  <andythenorth> it’s an SSD
17:54:46  <andythenorth> seems fine :P
17:55:42  <peter1138> How fancy are you!
17:58:17  <andythenorth> I should be on telly
17:58:22  <andythenorth> that’s how good I am
17:59:15  * peter1138 ponders trying to fix this helicopter issue
17:59:47  <andythenorth> SSD backup was kind of an accident, not because I bleed gold when I cut myself :)
18:00:17  <peter1138> That's a shame, I was going to tap an artery.
18:00:28  <andythenorth> bought a new laptop 3 years ago, pulled the SSD from the old laptop to transfer files over…
18:00:38  <andythenorth> put it in a case, voila, SSD backup :P
18:02:27  * andythenorth wonders how much SSD is these days
18:02:31  <andythenorth> long time since I bought one
18:02:48  <peter1138> Not a lot for the smaller ones.
18:03:28  <andythenorth> a shitload for the bigger ones
18:03:31  * andythenorth looking on crucial
18:04:53  <andythenorth> yeah and no, I’ll keep my 1TB spinning disk other backup
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18:11:43  <ZirconiumX> o/
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18:33:46  <frosch123> i wondered, should we rename opntitle.dat to opntitle.sav? just so people do not have to ask how to load the titlegame?
18:37:37  <Eddi|zuHause> no, that would make too much sense
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18:40:30  <LordAro> symlink :p
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18:45:45  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27795 trunk/src/lang/luxembourgish.txt (2017-03-14 19:45:36 +0100 )
18:45:46  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:47  <DorpsGek> luxembourgish: 3 changes by Phreeze
18:50:45  <andythenorth> frosch123: and why not? :)
18:51:00  <andythenorth> renaming things is a feature
18:51:46  <frosch123> i can't tell whether that is a yay or nah
18:52:22  <andythenorth> .dat means nothing to me
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18:52:24  <andythenorth> .sav does
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19:00:23  <ZirconiumX> For a dedicated server, does libLZMA matter?
19:00:29  <Rubidium> frosch123: just imagine what the "reverse" effect would be... questions whether OpenTTD crashes upon starting due to NewGRFs in the intro game
19:00:49  <frosch123> does no longer happen
19:01:03  <frosch123> if there are newgrf in the intro game, it goes to water-only
19:01:26  <frosch123> it's a hidden but intentional side-effect of the town-newgrf fix :)
19:01:56  *** gelignite has joined #openttd
19:02:02  <Rubidium> well, then: why it doesn't load the savegame I named to opntitle.sav?
19:02:06  <Eddi|zuHause> ZirconiumX: no, only for loading specific savegames
19:02:08  <Rubidium> what's more common?
19:02:14  <ZirconiumX> Cheers
19:02:47  <frosch123> possible, we can easier blame people who rename their files into .dat :)
19:02:53  <Eddi|zuHause> ZirconiumX: however, lzma2 (or xz) provides the best (tm) compression
19:03:11  <ZirconiumX> Which is why new savegames use lzo2 :p
19:03:16  <Rubidium> ZirconiumX: only caveat is that lzma is the best compromise between time and size for the compression of savegame in case of network transfer
19:03:42  <samu> make it multi-threaded ploz
19:03:50  <ZirconiumX> I ask because I'm cross-compiling for my raspberry pi (don't ask)
19:04:10  <ZirconiumX> So building liblzma and liblzo2 purely for this would be awkward
19:06:31  <Rubidium> samu: that's not really helping. The most "wasted" time is in cloning the game state and network transfer; after the cloning compression starts in a separate thread and whenever enough bits are compressed to send to the client, they are sent to the client. From that moment on it's mostly network IO
19:06:40  <Eddi|zuHause> ZirconiumX: you might have trouble getting things from bananas if you skip essential compression algorithms
19:06:41  <Rubidium> that's causing the delays
19:07:13  <ZirconiumX> Eddi|zuHause: curl <blah> | tar
19:07:23  <ZirconiumX> Etc
19:07:30  <ZirconiumX> Or a wget
19:07:40  <Eddi|zuHause> not what i meant
19:08:46  <Eddi|zuHause> ZirconiumX: with curl/wget you can't ask bananas for specific not-newest versions of files
19:09:24  <Eddi|zuHause> whereas the ingame download can handle that
19:09:38  <ZirconiumX> This is for a dedicated server
19:09:54  <Eddi|zuHause> so?
19:10:06  <ZirconiumX> So bananas is irrelevant for testing
19:10:12  <Eddi|zuHause> you make a savegame on your client, upload it to the server, and tell it to fetch the dependencies
19:14:21  <ZirconiumX> Side note
19:14:41  <ZirconiumX> Wasn't there a flag to set the version of a compile?
19:14:51  <ZirconiumX> --with-version=BLAH or something?
19:15:08  <Eddi|zuHause> even if there was, you should not use it
19:15:21  <frosch123> it was burned at high temperature
19:15:39  <ZirconiumX> Okay, so I just have to live with OpenTTD being very well designed.
19:15:46  <frosch123> after coop used to configure completely random revisions and then complained about desyncs
19:17:07  <ZirconiumX> I have a client compile versioned "jgrpp-0.17.2", and a server compile versioned "jgrpp-0.17.2-14" and the two won't talk to each other.
19:17:16  <ZirconiumX> Despite being built from the same source code.
19:17:54  <ZirconiumX> Sorry,
19:18:04  <ZirconiumX> server is "jgrpp-0.17.2-44-gd14d573"
19:18:48  <Eddi|zuHause> everything before the g<xxx> is the branch/tag name
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19:55:10  <andythenorth> gah backups are boring
19:55:14  *** ATS64 has joined #openttd
19:55:28  <andythenorth> 200GB takes 2 hours :(
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20:03:32  * andythenorth teddybear moaning
20:04:18  <Wolf01> :)
20:04:53  *** Supercheese has joined #openttd
20:11:25  <Eddi|zuHause> generally, if something takes 2 hours, maybe you should be looking for something else to do... watching it will make it take longer
20:12:10  <frosch123> he was looking into moaning about it
20:12:16  <frosch123> does that count?
20:16:20  <Eddi|zuHause> you know what i hate about python? that you quit the interactive shell differently on windows and linux
20:16:40  <frosch123> i wouldn't know
20:16:46  <frosch123> never used it on windows
20:17:29  <Eddi|zuHause> on linux you type ^D and on windows you type ^Z[enter]
20:18:31  <frosch123> well, just use ^Z on linux as well
20:18:39  <frosch123> and get used to type "fg" to restart it
20:18:50  <Eddi|zuHause> well, that doesn't really "quit" :p
20:18:53  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I have many other things to do :)
20:19:15  <frosch123> "have to do" or "doing"?
20:19:21  <andythenorth> doing
20:19:24  <frosch123> :)
20:19:32  <andythenorth> if you don’t have kids, bed time is hard to explain :P
20:19:37  <andythenorth> much tears today
20:20:07  <andythenorth> child #2 wanted me to continue reading the snake book, and is in tears because I stopped before the boa constrictor page
20:20:20  <andythenorth> also he trapped his finger in a door and has a big piece of skin hanging off
20:20:37  <andythenorth> child #1 is learning swift (Apple’s fake javascript or whatever it is)
20:21:10  <andythenorth> and is in tears because the tutorial is teaching him how to nest common code into repeatable functions, and he just wants to repeat his commands long-hand
20:21:16  <frosch123> when i am reading the favorite books of my nice and nephew, i usually alter the story incrementally, until they notice :)
20:21:53  <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p
20:22:20  <andythenorth> it’s a good tactic
20:22:28  <andythenorth> gets interesting when they can actually read
20:22:32  <frosch123> usually they are upset :)
20:23:03  <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me of my (younger) sister, she used to be bad at reading, so when reading comics she just looked at the pictures and made up a story for them, instead of reading the speech bubbles
20:23:18  <frosch123> nah, i mean that kind of books which they know every word of, and could "read" without being able to "read"
20:23:57  <Eddi|zuHause> my (even younger) brother always corrected her
20:24:13  <frosch123> at some point they want people to read the books to them, but are actually too bored to listen since they know it already
20:24:31  <frosch123> then i troll them by altering the story
20:26:04  <Eddi|zuHause> my nephew has a CD player, and when he wants to restart the disk, he doesn't use the stop/play button, but he opens it up and closes it again (it will then auto-play)
20:26:06  <andythenorth> just pushed the last removal of CPP from FIRS
20:26:48  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: he, i was once looking at old photos with my nice, and pointed out my sister on them by saying "see, that is <name of sister>". but then my nice insistet on the person being her mother :p
20:28:11  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: there exists a picture of my father as a kid, and when i was that age, my parents showed that picture to me and my siblings, and everybody agreed that it was me on that picture
20:28:51  <frosch123> yep, i also know some son/father pairs like that. esp. funny if your put photos of them next to each other
20:28:56  <frosch123> on some shelf
20:31:15  <andythenorth> child #2 looked exactly like me when he was a baby
20:31:24  <andythenorth> but…not like I did when I was a baby :P
20:31:45  <andythenorth> have we closed any more bugs? o_O
20:31:52  <andythenorth> I tried to make sense of the OS X bugs, but eh
20:32:14  <frosch123> shall i open more for you to fix?
20:33:52  <andythenorth> I think you are playing a different game :P
20:34:05  <andythenorth> my game is always to be left with a handful of issues / tickets :P
20:34:25  <andythenorth> like this
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20:36:31  <frosch123> well, i create tickets for bugs which i hope other would fix
20:36:50  <frosch123> i don't care about creating tickets for myself
20:37:17  <andythenorth> those chips tickets, I am hoping yexo will come back and fix :P
20:37:22  <andythenorth> it’s been a while :)
20:38:31  <frosch123> hmm, maybe i could use chips as testcase
20:38:52  <andythenorth> for ..? o_O
20:39:15  <frosch123> i was considering to start nml from the other end
20:39:28  <frosch123> and write a grf linker
20:39:57  <frosch123> which takes multiple intermediately compiled input files, and links them into a grf
20:40:42  <andythenorth> for faster, or better in other ways?
20:40:57  <frosch123> both :p
20:41:22  <frosch123> separation of abstraction layers and stuff
20:42:05  <andythenorth> I redesigned nml on March 4th :P
20:42:17  <andythenorth> Alberth helped, but don’t blame him for my ideas, it wasn’t his fault
20:42:33  <andythenorth> I was looking at the declaration end
20:43:23  <frosch123> i know, but i wanted to start at the other end
20:43:33  <frosch123> since that appeared to be least explored
20:43:33  <andythenorth> I can see why :)
20:43:55  <andythenorth> I could pretty much test my ideas with some horrible python, it’s a low skill requirement
20:45:02  <frosch123> <- wrt. nml syntax, i colllected that some time ago
20:45:34  <andythenorth> I recall that
20:48:55  <frosch123> night
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20:54:35  <Alberth> :o more nml movements :)
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21:11:46  <samu> v->flight_counter = ClampU(v->flight_counter + m / _settings_game.vehicle.plane_speed, 0, UINT16_MAX / speed_factor_max);
21:12:05  <samu> is ClampU going to do what I'm thinking it's gonna do?
21:13:14  <samu> if the value exceeds 16383 and flight counter is above that value, set it to always be 16383
21:13:57  <samu> speed_factor_max is 4
21:15:30  <samu> flight_counter is being checked daily
21:15:58  <samu> it can check for a max of 16383 days then
21:16:12  <samu> because flight_counter is a uint16
21:17:51  <Alberth> oh, just 16K-ish, not even near any limit
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21:20:48  <samu> flight_counter is 4 times that value
21:20:58  <samu> 65536 / 4
21:21:28  <samu> or .. wait a minute
21:23:18  <samu> m / _settings_game.vehicle.plane_speed
21:23:21  <samu> ya, m is 12
21:24:18  <samu> i must be doing something wrong, grrr... brb
21:33:08  <samu> nop, it's correct
21:33:36  <samu> 1 day at speed factor 1/4 counts as 3 per day
21:34:02  <samu> 1 day at speed factor 1/3 counts as 4 per day
21:34:12  <samu> 1 day at speed factor 1/2 counts as 6 per day
21:34:20  <samu> 1 day at speed factor 1/1 counts as 12 per day
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21:35:50  <samu> 5461 days, that's a bit less than i initially thought
21:35:59  <samu> but still plenty
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21:37:40  <samu> @calc 65536 / 3
21:37:40  <DorpsGek> samu: 21845.3333333
21:37:44  <samu> @calc 65536 / 4
21:37:44  <DorpsGek> samu: 16384
21:37:46  <samu> @calc 65536 / 6
21:37:46  <DorpsGek> samu: 10922.6666667
21:37:47  <samu> @calc 65536 / 12
21:37:47  <DorpsGek> samu: 5461.33333333
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21:39:02  <supermop> yo
21:39:37  <supermop> tired from trudging in snow
21:39:37  <samu> hi
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21:43:18  <samu> pseudo-days
21:46:20  <supermop> don't have to energy to comment in DOO thread
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21:59:14  <samu> it's correct after all, i was just being dumb, it's sad how I forget why I did the things the way I did
21:59:25  <samu> alzeimer
21:59:48  <samu> i will have a sad life when i get older
22:00:30  <Eddi|zuHause> what's a DOO thread?
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22:20:12  <supermop> driver only operation
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23:06:52  <andythenorth> Mashinky eh?
23:08:16  <andythenorth> also bed time
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23:28:38  <samu> 5461 is a weird cap
23:29:41  <samu> max days in flight before aircraft breakdowns
23:29:55  <samu> range can go from 0 to 5461
23:31:11  <samu> as long as max speed factor is kept at 4, max days can go to a max of 5461
23:31:39  <samu> @calc 5461 / 365
23:31:39  <DorpsGek> samu: 14.9616438356
23:32:02  <samu> 14 years ought to be enough to travel from 1 corner to another on a 4096x4096 map
23:46:27  <peter1138> Evening.
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23:53:16  <samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DAY - lel, this name... so strange
23:53:21  <peter1138> Right, what do I need to work on?
23:53:52  <Wolf01> I think I'll try to work my way towards the bed
23:53:56  <samu> fix the rail placement on tile with a ship, plz
23:54:05  <samu> not to be confused with rail upgrade
23:54:11  <Wolf01> But I know I'll stay here for about another hour
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23:54:38  <samu> btw awesome work peter1138, you care!
23:54:45  <samu> i really appreciate it
23:55:17  <samu> also thx to michi_cc for that dpi
23:58:37  <samu> PLANE_BREAKDOWN_DIST seems better

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