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00:01:09 <Samu_> anyone here can help? 00:10:18 *** gelignite has quit IRC 00:18:18 <supermop_home> alright peter1138, now its yamazaki and soda time 00:21:02 *** Maarten has joined #openttd 00:27:05 <peter1138> nah, it's bed time 00:34:01 <Samu_> peter1138: updated https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1184230#p1184230 00:34:05 <Samu_> what u think? 00:34:20 <peter1138> Erm 00:34:23 <Samu_> or are you in bed already 00:34:25 <peter1138> honestly 00:34:27 <peter1138> looks like ass 00:35:16 <peter1138> looks like flood plains everywhere 00:36:06 <Samu_> yeah :( 00:38:07 <Samu_> those town bridges can still ruin placement of locks 00:39:39 <Samu_> flood plains, hmm, i see that it makes many lakes now 00:40:12 <Samu_> rivers that don't go to ocean 00:40:25 <peter1138> that's why you want carving 00:40:39 <peter1138> preferably with sweeping curves 00:40:43 <peter1138> big job 00:40:54 <peter1138> if it was easy someone else would've already done it 00:40:56 <peter1138> night 00:41:11 *** a_sad_dude has quit IRC 00:45:47 <supermop_home> rainfall river generator 00:52:27 <supermop_home> Samu_ the rivers look bad to us, but my wife just walked in here and said "well that's what rivers do" so I think it is a matter of expectation 00:53:16 <Samu_> =_= 00:53:53 <Samu_> i have a dilema 00:54:40 <Samu_> i can disable lakes, but this would make mountainous terran quite impossible to generate rivers 00:54:55 <Samu_> terrain* 00:55:18 <Samu_> without lakes, all rivers that get generates will lead to ocean 00:55:23 <Samu_> generated* 00:56:14 <Samu_> or, i can make lakes larger, but they look like big squares 00:56:33 <Samu_> flood plains would become more flooded 00:56:44 <Samu_> not good to see 00:57:06 <Samu_> or leave it like it is right now, rivers leading to nowhere 00:57:53 <Samu_> part of the problem is still the issue of compatibility with locks 01:07:43 *** Samu_ has quit IRC 01:08:51 *** bwn has quit IRC 01:12:52 *** bwn has joined #openttd 01:45:27 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 01:46:15 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 01:50:53 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 02:01:15 <Supercheese> @commit 27822 02:01:16 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: Commit by peter1138 :: r27822 /trunk/src (6 files in 4 dirs) (2017-03-24 08:33:31 +0100 ) 02:01:17 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: -Feature: Vehicle Group Info: Add profits and occupancy display to group vehicle list (mtm, JGR) 02:01:38 <Supercheese> "occupancy display" 02:02:08 <Supercheese> Is that "percentage of the total vehicles of this type that belong to this group"? 02:02:46 * Supercheese is confused 02:03:36 <Supercheese> Aha, seems based on: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=72855 02:04:08 <Supercheese> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1146159#p1146159 02:04:13 <Supercheese> Still slightly confused, but ok 02:05:28 *** a_sad_dude has joined #openttd 02:06:05 *** ATS65 has quit IRC 02:08:01 *** Ethereal_Whisper has joined #openttd 02:41:08 <supermop_home> ?? 03:10:18 *** ATS65 has joined #openttd 03:12:01 <dlite> if I have a wagon full of goods and I set it to refit at certain station to some other cargo type, will it unload the goods or will the goods be destroyed? 03:14:35 <Supercheese> you'd best unload the goods before you refit 03:19:20 <dlite> getting a vehicle to "transfer and take cargo with refit" was a bit unintuitive 03:19:27 <dlite> but seems to do what I want 03:23:51 <Supercheese> yep 03:26:51 *** glx has quit IRC 04:00:36 *** Maarten has quit IRC 04:21:56 *** Maarten has joined #openttd 04:25:41 *** ATS64 has joined #openttd 04:33:21 *** ATS65 has quit IRC 04:42:58 *** Ethereal_Whisper has quit IRC 04:43:06 *** Maarten has quit IRC 04:44:28 *** Maarten has joined #openttd 05:07:23 *** SimYouLater has joined #openttd 05:09:46 <SimYouLater> Hey, I'm still having trouble with the specs of ships for blueFISH. I'll start with the speed. My test vehicle is supposed to have an ocean top speed of 18 km/h. Instead it has an ocean speed of 20 km/h. ocean_speed_fraction is set to 1. 05:10:04 <SimYouLater> Could I get some assistance? 05:21:05 *** Snail has quit IRC 05:21:42 *** SimYouLater has quit IRC 05:42:21 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 05:42:21 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 05:42:32 <Alberth> hola 05:50:45 <Rubidium> ola 06:18:13 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:23:43 <andythenorth> o/ 06:32:43 <Alberth> moin 06:37:07 <Alberth> great IH, I started upgrading to diesel (Chinooks) with 55t wagons, number of trains isn't decreasing much, but they get shorter 06:37:31 <andythenorth> it doesn’t quite match up though :) 06:37:45 <andythenorth> the chinook is longer than the steam engine it replaces 06:38:18 <Alberth> ah, yes, could be, I remove the existing trains completely, as I change the wagons too 06:38:35 <andythenorth> IH will be having a few tweaks ;) 06:38:39 <andythenorth> is shorter better? 06:38:52 <Alberth> also, I "discovered" refit at station :p 06:40:01 <Alberth> not sure if shorter is better or not, my stations are way too long for my trains, so it doesn't make any difference 06:40:17 <Alberth> platforms are 5 or 6, trains around 4 06:40:45 <andythenorth> yeah I get about the same 06:41:08 <Alberth> I had more 30t wagons, but they are shorter, so total length isn't that much different 06:41:26 <andythenorth> ‘refit at station’ is a winning tactic 06:41:49 <andythenorth> I almost think that that the old refit button should be removed, although it’s more obvious to players 06:42:00 <Alberth> power is a bit less, I think, chinook is a bit slower, but it carries more cargo, at 6x freight multiply 06:42:54 <Alberth> "old" refit button? 06:43:06 <andythenorth> depot refit 06:43:14 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1240 06:43:16 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 06:43:55 <Alberth> depends perhaps, you can limit refit capabilities heavily if you want 06:44:23 <andythenorth> also station refit can’t do subtypes 06:44:38 <Alberth> some more realistic sets likely have very limited refit capabilities, or eg nuts has none 06:44:55 <Alberth> nor does default set :) 06:46:07 *** ATS64 has quit IRC 06:46:37 <Alberth> I am not used to having refit available :) 06:46:46 *** Guest1240 has quit IRC 06:47:28 <Alberth> orders with refit are a bit magic though, took a few attempts before I got it right 06:48:32 <andythenorth> occasionally they are buggy 06:49:01 <andythenorth> sometimes first time a train arrives at station, it just doesn’t refit 06:49:17 <andythenorth> all vehicles on same shared orders will do same thing 06:53:59 *** Progman has joined #openttd 06:56:18 <Alberth> indeed, I had to force it at first with "full load" :) 06:59:17 <andythenorth> sometimes running the route does it 06:59:30 <andythenorth> I suspect it’s an interaction with cdist and vehicle reservations 07:00:44 <Alberth> sounds very possible 07:02:48 <peter1138> Supercheese, "how full they are" 07:03:25 <Supercheese> yeah, looks like it 07:07:25 <peter1138> More useful for passengers/mail than other cargo 07:13:58 <andythenorth> ach forests 07:15:50 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#forest 07:15:52 <andythenorth> crappy 07:23:29 <andythenorth> 9 trees, like default forest? Instead of 4? 07:43:38 <andythenorth> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8387/forests_such.png 07:53:37 <peter1138> yes 07:57:23 <Alberth> dense looks better imho 07:58:55 *** roidal has joined #openttd 08:04:25 <andythenorth> now I have to have two lots of magic :) 08:04:26 <andythenorth> nvm 08:08:13 *** Progman has quit IRC 08:09:57 *** cHawk has quit IRC 08:13:26 * andythenorth wonders about other industries with trees 08:13:52 <andythenorth> vineyard is pretty bad http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/industries.html#vineyard 08:25:42 <Alberth> vineyard doesn't have many tress, does it? 08:26:10 <peter1138> Only if it's mismanaged 08:26:18 <andythenorth> I should probably draw vines 08:26:32 <andythenorth> I have never drawn any trees or organic stuff :P 08:26:37 <andythenorth> drew a cow 08:26:42 <Alberth> lines of smaller bushes, mostly 08:26:48 <andythenorth> grapes don’t come from cows :P 08:27:02 <Alberth> :p 08:27:51 <Alberth> it does look pretty, if you ignore its function, though 08:28:37 <Alberth> :o textile mill only in extreme? 08:28:42 <andythenorth> yup 08:28:57 <andythenorth> vineyard would be better as farm fields 08:29:03 <andythenorth> newgrf fields anyone? o_O 08:29:37 <Alberth> there are more industries for extreme-only :o 08:30:16 <Alberth> newgrf fields would be really nice, wouldn't it 08:30:41 <Alberth> they do tend to get slaughtered by crossing rail-tracks though 08:32:23 <andythenorth> they do 08:32:29 <andythenorth> but somehow it probably doesn’t matter 08:32:37 <andythenorth> never bothers me for farms at least 08:33:13 <andythenorth> sheep farm, for example, would be much better if surrounded by fields of sheep 08:35:30 <peter1138> is newgrf fields not a thing? 08:35:35 <andythenorth> not yet 08:36:17 <andythenorth> was tried 7 years ago http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8386/fields_2.png 08:37:29 <peter1138> classy 08:37:39 <peter1138> lots of penises 08:38:10 <andythenorth> tinker fields 08:39:53 <peter1138> what was wrong with it 7 years ago? 08:40:01 <andythenorth> can’t remember :P 08:40:06 <andythenorth> frosch might remember 08:40:24 <andythenorth> also chores, biab 08:40:26 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:46:52 *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd 09:04:43 *** Alberth has left #openttd 09:23:06 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 09:23:06 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 09:23:45 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 09:29:15 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 09:30:02 *** tokai has quit IRC 09:55:13 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:55:23 <Wolf01> o/ 09:57:51 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 10:00:12 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 10:03:19 *** Samu has joined #openttd 10:04:00 <Samu> hi 10:05:46 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 10:13:17 *** adf88 has joined #openttd 10:17:07 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 10:17:11 <andythenorth> o/ 10:17:14 <Wolf01> Meow 10:18:13 <andythenorth> uniform forest trees, or 2 tiles, mixed up? 10:18:19 <andythenorth> and should I put more machinery or tracks in? 10:18:33 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8387/forests_such.png 10:18:34 <Wolf01> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=76059 that's for you 10:19:00 <andythenorth> and should I spend the next 2 days animating tree cutting and growth, with random triggers :P 10:19:05 <Wolf01> Put a dirt road 10:20:07 <Wolf01> http://www.protectadks.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/CranePondRoad-11.gif 10:23:04 <andythenorth> I should 10:24:22 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the repeating pattern is too strong, you should only use one type of tree 10:25:25 <Eddi|zuHause> or have a lot mmore randomness 10:26:32 *** adf88 has left #openttd 10:28:09 <Samu> there is no single ai prepared to build routes on rivers 10:28:15 <Samu> that's sad :( 10:28:23 <Wolf01> Make one 10:28:37 <Samu> there's also a bug with getting the closest ship depot 10:28:43 <Samu> peter1138: halp 10:28:54 <Wolf01> Let him sleep, is saturday 10:28:56 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 10:28:59 <Samu> ok 10:29:05 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 10:29:09 <Samu> he went to bed earlier than me 10:31:25 <Samu> dictator ai doesn't know that it has to build locks to move ships on inclined slopes 10:31:40 <Samu> shipai doesn't build on rivers at all, only at sea 10:33:17 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: one tree might be better, like default game 10:34:35 <andythenorth> or the whole thing has to be much more random 10:34:45 <andythenorth> with paths and machines and so on 10:34:59 <Wolf01> Can't you just randomize tree bits? 10:35:09 <Wolf01> Or it's a fixed png? 10:35:22 <andythenorth> it’s base set trees 10:36:09 <Wolf01> IMO, all the forests should work like tropical ones 10:36:17 <Wolf01> With actual trees on the map 10:36:52 <Wolf01> So they will be randomized by the game itself, and you can even plant more to "fix" the production 10:40:31 <andythenorth> I have considered it many timews 10:40:35 <andythenorth> but planting trees is boring 10:40:56 <Wolf01> Make the forest plant them by itself 10:41:21 <andythenorth> patch 10:41:38 <Wolf01> As soon as the sawmill cuts a tile, it should already prepare the new saplings 10:43:49 <andythenorth> animated fields would be better for that ;) 10:44:12 <Wolf01> Yeah, make a sawmill like a farm :P 10:44:38 <andythenorth> newgrf fields... 10:44:42 <Wolf01> Also, do farms decrease production if I remove fields? 10:45:04 <Eddi|zuHause> afaik no 10:45:24 <Wolf01> Samu, go and implement that XD 10:45:28 <andythenorth> they don’t 10:45:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the fields know which industry they belong to, but the industry does not know about fields 10:45:51 <andythenorth> ah maybe that was why the patch failed 10:46:04 <andythenorth> I think frosch got stuck removing fields from closed industries 10:47:06 <Eddi|zuHause> that already works, but it is done in the tileloop, so there is a short timeframe where the fields still exist, but do not know what to draw because the industry is gone 10:48:33 <andythenorth> so they lose their reference? 10:48:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 10:48:45 <andythenorth> which means fields would need to be a type of tile, with their own storage? 10:49:03 <andythenorth> I think the patch relied on them being able to make a callback against the industry 10:49:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 10:49:19 <Eddi|zuHause> they have storage 10:49:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but not enough, probably 10:49:51 <Wolf01> Also industries should have a tile_field_counter to use in production calculation, and when a tile gets destroyed or created should increment or decrement the counter 10:49:53 <andythenorth> and in default game, it’s just a flag, and the game knows what to draw? 10:50:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the default fields have only like 4 states 10:50:27 <andythenorth> yes 10:50:35 <Eddi|zuHause> the states are stored in the tile 10:51:24 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it could be "solved" by just demanding the newgrf coder to prepare for this case 10:52:49 <Eddi|zuHause> field tiles would get their own newgrf type independent from industry (tile), and then you declare that their PARENT (industry) might not always exist (i.e. industry shut down) 10:53:20 <Eddi|zuHause> they would then behave like objects 10:53:41 <Eddi|zuHause> just the industry places them instead of the player 10:54:57 <Eddi|zuHause> fields, plantations, forests, power lines, ... 11:01:12 <andythenorth> that seems the most viable route 11:01:39 <andythenorth> there would be a cb on the industry when objects are being built, and it would return layouts 11:01:58 <andythenorth> which are IDs of objects provided by the newgrf 11:02:29 <andythenorth> although it seems appealing to make the objects reflect things like industry production, I think it’s unhelpful and unnecessary 11:13:06 <Samu> hmm buoys can prevent oil rigs from spawning 11:14:24 <Samu> ship depots too 11:14:51 <andythenorth> that’s correct, no? 11:15:16 <Samu> it depends 11:16:11 <Samu> they're placed on water, but then it's no longer a water tile 11:17:02 <Samu> when it checks for water to place an oil rig, a single buoy can prevent it from spawning 11:17:21 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 11:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there are a few corner cases to consider 11:21:10 <Eddi|zuHause> like what happens when the game builds a new industry that happens to get the old ID 11:21:26 <Samu> GFX_WATERTILE_SPECIALCHECK 11:21:33 <Samu> must investigate this 11:22:40 <Samu> if (gfx == GFX_WATERTILE_SPECIALCHECK) { if (!IsTileType(cur_tile, MP_WATER) || !IsTileFlat(cur_tile)) { return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_SITE_UNSUITABLE); } 11:23:06 <Samu> ah, it seems that it can build on depots after all 11:23:12 <Samu> but not on buoys 11:23:19 <Samu> buoys are station tile type 11:23:53 * andythenorth wonders if there’s any way to create virtual industry, off the map, run the cb chain, then destroy it 11:24:02 <andythenorth> then just the type is needed, not the instance ID 11:24:28 <andythenorth> fields should behave generically, per the industry type, not per the instance 11:25:38 <andythenorth> hmm, where is the tree stump sprite 11:26:30 <andythenorth> maybe pikka drew that 11:30:20 <andythenorth> better http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8388/forest_such_2.png 11:31:58 <Samu> nice 11:33:20 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 11:34:56 <Samu> t.t no single ai making good use of rivers 11:35:11 <Samu> some try, but fail miserably :(, they don't know they got to build locks 11:44:38 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, better 11:46:40 <andythenorth> ach, needs animated tree cutting + regrowth 11:46:57 <andythenorth> so not minded to do that :P 11:47:22 <andythenorth> also I think it needs 2 tiles for the equipment, one of them featuring logs 11:48:59 *** adf88 has joined #openttd 11:49:22 *** adf88 has quit IRC 11:52:28 <andythenorth> why did I include forests that are just 3x3? 11:52:33 <andythenorth> they look daft :P 11:52:59 <Eddi|zuHause> because last time you were worried that industries have too large footprint and can't be placed properly 11:56:31 <andythenorth> I think I overshot :P 11:57:15 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 11:57:22 <Wolf01> Quak 11:57:49 <frosch123> moi 11:57:57 <andythenorth> moin frosch123 12:11:20 <frosch123> andythenorth: https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/New_Results#CB_3B:_Control_special_industry_effect <- that's the current proposal for fields 12:11:52 <frosch123> the old one had some quirks, and when newobjects were added, this new spec was started on top of that 12:21:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27827 trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp (2017-03-25 13:21:17 +0100 ) 12:21:25 <DorpsGek> -Codechange (r27819): Deduplicate code. (adf88) 12:29:03 <Wolf01> Mmmm must to truck 12:30:42 <Wolf01> I need to discover that truck chassis to make a road train :( 12:32:33 <andythenorth> frosch123: is influence on cargo production needed / wise? o_O 12:34:39 <andythenorth> hmm 12:34:50 <andythenorth> OS X thinks one of FIRS pngs is an app 12:34:56 <andythenorth> maybe it is? o_O 12:35:32 <Samu> FIX PLOZ https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6548 12:35:35 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like phishing mail trojans... 12:35:38 <Samu> patch provided 12:36:51 <andythenorth> maybe it’s a binary masquerading as a png 12:43:07 *** gelignite has quit IRC 12:46:39 <Wolf01> HA! Got lost again, managed to find the way home, along the trip I found another researchable object and... it unlocked the truck \o/ 12:48:32 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 12:58:51 *** Gja has joined #openttd 13:09:43 <supermop_home> damn I had a dream that andy redrew all my roadtype sprites to make them look better 13:10:26 <andythenorth> I had a dream that newest photoshop isn’t broken 13:13:01 <V453000> ? 13:13:11 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 13:13:11 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 13:13:45 <andythenorth> crashes, all the defaults are wrong, seems to not embed palette for 8bpp save for web 13:13:53 <V453000> nice 13:14:04 <LordAro> hmm. `bool a; int b; a != (b < 0);` vs `bool a; int b; a ? b < 0 : b >= 0;` ? 13:14:44 <frosch123> i usually do the former 13:14:55 <andythenorth> so is there a tree stump in the base set? 13:14:58 <andythenorth> or did I imagine it? 13:15:12 <supermop_home> sure there was in tto 13:15:12 <frosch123> default forest has growth stages 13:15:34 <frosch123> including cut ones 13:16:23 <Samu> damn im bad 13:16:31 <andythenorth> ah maybe it’s in the forest sprites 13:16:50 <Wolf01> o/ Alberth 13:16:56 <frosch123> there are also dead trees 13:17:06 <frosch123> maybe one of them looks like a stump 13:17:28 <andythenorth> I used some of them already :) 13:17:46 <Samu> crap, i posted a patch that fails 13:18:26 <Samu> crap, i'm sorry :( 13:19:07 <Samu> delete this for me https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6548, i should have tested it, my bad 13:19:25 <Samu> i don't understand bools yet 13:20:19 <andythenorth> 1 or 0 :) 13:20:26 <andythenorth> 1 xor 0 13:21:00 <peter1138> hi 13:21:15 <andythenorth> peter1138: fields such ^^^^^^^^^ 13:22:19 <frosch123> "should be planted at the end of spring only" <- i forgot my last test included ecs wood vector 13:22:27 <peter1138> what 13:22:32 <peter1138> i need to recover 13:23:03 <supermop_home> kept up with the talisker huh? 13:23:15 <peter1138> no just got back from 64 miles 13:23:38 <peter1138> 64 miles, 2500 feet and 16.1mph avg 13:23:42 <supermop_home> hopefully on bike, not foot] 13:23:46 <peter1138> also: headwind 13:23:58 <peter1138> one of those headwinds that seems to follow :S 13:24:42 <andythenorth> nice day though eh? 13:24:48 <peter1138> yeah blue skies! 13:25:17 <Alberth> o/ all 13:26:14 <Alberth> clearly you're biking too fast :) 13:26:22 <frosch123> hmm, no stumps, just small trees 13:26:40 <Samu> !IsTileType(cur_tile, MP_WATER) && !IsBuoyTile(cur_tile) 13:26:40 <Alberth> retina screen, close enough :p 13:26:50 <Samu> time to fix it 13:27:15 <LordAro> peter1138: ooh, very nice 13:27:50 <LordAro> frosch123: how about a line like return _engine_sort_direction != !(va < vb); 13:28:06 <LordAro> wait, that's silly 13:28:09 <andythenorth> stumps are in the forest sprite, they are in a 3x3 grid 13:28:11 <andythenorth> no use to me :) 13:29:10 <Samu> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6548 13:29:23 <Samu> tested it 13:29:33 <peter1138> that's always useful :p 13:29:35 <Samu> it was not a ||, but a && 13:29:45 <Samu> sorry about that, :( 13:30:55 <frosch123> LordAro: in C sometimes i have to write "!(a) != !(b)", where the "!" are used to convert integers to bools 13:31:17 <frosch123> i add a comment about that though :p 13:31:17 <Wolf01> Samu, also pay attention to parenthesis when doing boolean operations 13:31:40 <peter1138> I often see "if (!(a == b))" in patches 13:32:18 <Milek7> frosch123: cast to bool? 13:32:32 <frosch123> "if (a) { return true; } else { return false; }" is another classic :) 13:32:39 <frosch123> Milek7: C does not have bools 13:32:42 <frosch123> it only has integers 13:32:47 <Milek7> ah 13:32:52 <Samu> if (!IsTileType(cur_tile, MP_WATER) && !IsBuoyTile(cur_tile) || !IsTileFlat(cur_tile)) { return_cmd_error(STR_ERROR_SITE_UNSUITABLE); } 13:33:05 <Samu> parentesis are needed? 13:33:14 <frosch123> and various fancy things may use other values than 1 for true 13:33:15 <Wolf01> Depends on the result tou want 13:33:22 <Wolf01> *you 13:33:31 <frosch123> so, comparing "bools" in C is dangerious, since "true == true" may not hold 13:33:51 <Alberth> !(a) != !!(b) :p 13:34:09 <andythenorth> forests with gaps in - delete that layout? 13:34:12 * andythenorth thinks so 13:34:20 <frosch123> andythenorth: pikka would be sad :p 13:34:29 <andythenorth> he can tell me by DM :P 13:34:35 <Samu> is not water and is not buoy or is not flat 13:34:35 <andythenorth> he’s busy with ideas 13:34:42 <Wolf01> #define true false 13:34:54 <Samu> (is not water and is not buoy) or is not flat 13:35:13 <LordAro> frosch123: this patch is getting to be rather bigger than i expected 13:35:31 <frosch123> clang stuff again? 13:35:50 <LordAro> no, i decided i'd try getting rid of [QG]SortT 13:36:02 <Alberth> Samu: (not water and not buoy) or not flat vs not water and (not buoy or not flat) ? 13:36:03 <LordAro> for some reason 13:36:36 <Samu> i want it to do "(is not water and is not buoy) or is not flat" 13:36:46 <Samu> does it require parentesis? 13:36:47 <frosch123> LordAro: would you like to learn about docker? 13:36:54 <peter1138> always use parenthesis if you mix && and || 13:37:08 <Alberth> Samu: for the compiler no, for human beings yes 13:37:10 <peter1138> or, as we call them, brackets 13:37:12 <Samu> bah, i didn't use, because... it was working 13:37:14 <Wolf01> Samu, no, it doesn't, but for better uderstandability 13:37:38 <Wolf01> Samu, it's like "a * b + c" 13:37:51 <LordAro> frosch123: i have some knowledge of what docker is, never used it myself though. why? 13:38:16 <frosch123> so you can finish TrueBrain starts of a compile farm with compilers which are not older than 10 years 13:38:40 <LordAro> ah, lol 13:38:55 <LordAro> i can think of worse things to do 13:39:17 <LordAro> you'd have to wait a few months before i actually graduate and have "some" spare time 13:39:26 <frosch123> unless we get a new compile farm, all attempts to move to c++11/14/17 are meaningless 13:39:49 <frosch123> LordAro: sad, you do not have free time after graduation 13:39:55 <LordAro> heh 13:40:15 <frosch123> i started on ottd during my graduation, because it was too boring to do graduation stuff all day 13:40:38 <LordAro> hehe 13:41:38 <andythenorth> he’s right 13:42:07 <andythenorth> I spent most of my degree learning fun things, nothing to do with the degree 13:42:14 <LordAro> oh for sure 13:42:14 <andythenorth> then….work 13:42:24 <andythenorth> eh 4 forests http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8389/forests.png 13:42:26 <andythenorth> probably do? 13:42:41 <LordAro> this is what i spend far too much of my time managing these days https://runciman.hacksoc.org/~/lordaro/ury/ury.png 13:43:47 <Samu> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6548#comment14402 - just added parenetsis 13:43:49 <peter1138> all i see is BAPS 13:44:05 <LordAro> yup 13:44:15 <LordAro> program that long predates me :) 13:44:33 <Milek7> some people write code like "if (2 == something)", it drives me crazy 13:45:04 <peter1138> me too 13:45:09 <peter1138> and i am aware of the good reason for it 13:45:25 <LordAro> peter1138: "i don't turn on my compiler warning flags" ? 13:45:33 <peter1138> :D 13:47:14 <Wolf01> <Milek7> some people write code like "if (2 == something)", it drives me crazy <- that's to avoid to do "if (something = 2)" 13:47:29 <frosch123> andythenorth: looks nice :) 13:47:43 <Wolf01> The result of that condition is "yes" 13:48:56 * andythenorth doing the snow now 13:49:11 <andythenorth> urgh 13:49:14 <andythenorth> snow under trees? 13:49:33 <peter1138> no 13:49:41 <peter1138> they are quite dense 13:49:53 <peter1138> like me 13:50:01 <peter1138> mind you it could drift there 13:50:33 <frosch123> Milek7: there are secure coding guidelines like CERT. they have a particular section about "portability", which is essentially a collection of compiler bugs from compilers of the past 40 years 13:50:39 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8390/forest_snow_1.png 13:51:19 <Samu> speaking of code 13:51:24 <Samu> HELP https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p3ywofais?/p3ywofais 13:51:31 <supermop_home> needs at least some snow on the dirt 13:51:32 <Samu> how do i avoid repetition 13:51:51 <Samu> MakeRiver and CircularTileSearch is being repeated 13:51:53 <Alberth> andythenorth: looks nice, south trees are best for cutting obviously :p 13:52:41 <andythenorth> supermop: I can’t find a partial-snow dirt tile 13:52:45 <andythenorth> and I cba to draw one 13:52:56 <frosch123> if you want to make it realistic, add big piles of small branches 13:53:06 <Samu> I want to collect all the tiles that need to do MakeRiver + CircularTileSearch 13:53:17 <Samu> then send them all into a for loop 13:53:56 <frosch123> (that's a trap comment, noone would want to make it realisitic) 13:54:28 <Alberth> cutting a few trees once every 50 years :p 13:54:55 <andythenorth> pretty good eh? o_O http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8391/forest_tropic.png 13:55:14 * andythenorth might have the wrong sprite number 13:55:31 <frosch123> reverse forest? 13:55:51 <frosch123> deliver wood, plant trees in the desert, desert kills trees, repeat? 13:56:29 <Alberth> I thought lumber mills killed trees 13:57:08 <andythenorth> ‘failing plantation’ 14:04:14 <Samu> isn't it possible to avoid repetition? 14:04:20 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 14:08:25 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8392/forest_tropic_2.png 14:08:28 <andythenorth> tropic eh 14:08:31 <andythenorth> “it will do" 14:08:51 <peter1138> yeah i mean who'll even see it 14:09:25 <andythenorth> if a tree falls in a FIRS forest.... 14:09:28 <andythenorth> ? 14:10:12 <peter1138> industries have sound effects right? 14:10:32 <Samu> yes 14:10:38 <Wolf01> Eddi, wtf are you on steam? 14:11:17 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 14:11:50 <argoneus> good afternoon train friends 14:12:15 <Wolf01> Oh, you got the time right :D 14:13:39 *** Gja has quit IRC 14:13:48 <andythenorth> peter1138: I never got as far as sound effects :P 14:15:09 <andythenorth> is the tropic forest too uniform? 14:15:20 <andythenorth> I could piss around making it more varied 14:16:47 <Wolf01> I figured out the most worrying image 14:21:21 <andythenorth> o_O 14:22:02 <Wolf01> Big cat pissing around the forest to make yellow trees variant 14:26:32 <Samu> who's the pathfinder expert? was it Alberth 14:26:41 <Samu> or alberth is gui expert 14:26:49 <Alberth> tropic doesn't strike me as a good idea for planting forests :p 14:27:14 <Samu> there are no forests on that tileset 14:27:21 <andythenorth> it is what it is :P 14:27:30 <Alberth> :D 14:27:32 <Samu> forest industries 14:29:09 <Samu> need help on sending ships to the closest (but reachable) ship depot, peter1138 did you do something about it? i'd like to solve this 14:29:21 <Alberth> samu isn't trying to change a found path too late in the process? I'd expect you want to influence how it finds a path 14:30:23 <supermop_home> a lot of lumber - legal and otherwise - comes from tropic areas 14:31:23 <supermop_home> if you want a more morally acceptable alternative, a bamboo plantation in tropic would be equivalent 14:32:13 <supermop_home> drawing a bamboo stalk as a tree would be a pain though 14:32:35 <Samu> oh, about the rivers patch, well, i like it how it is right now, it's not perfect though, but at least it's something acceptable in my eyes 14:33:08 <Samu> the coding is probably crap 14:33:18 <Samu> could be improved, but meh... it works 14:35:10 <Samu> my current issues with water that I'm still trying to deal with is... sending ships to the closest ship depot, probably locks under bridges, especially town bridges 14:35:36 <supermop_home> Samu, have you looked at the rainfall river generator patch? 14:35:49 <Samu> nope, which one is that 14:36:21 <supermop_home> it a hydrological model based terrain/river generator 14:36:52 <supermop_home> it seeks to make the hills and valleys based on the flow of water rather than the other way around 14:37:06 *** a_sad_dude has quit IRC 14:37:46 <supermop_home> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=71970&hilit=rainfall+river#p1137719 14:40:04 <Samu> oh, those look quite realistic 14:40:11 <Samu> are they lock-friendly? 14:40:15 <supermop_home> idk 14:40:53 <supermop_home> tbh that's less important to me than non-stupid looking rivers and valleys 14:42:10 <supermop_home> bowl shaped craters and depressions with no exit are fairly rare, but seem to comprise the majority of valleys in openttd 14:42:17 *** Gja has joined #openttd 14:42:49 <Samu> i rather have locks connect 14:43:00 <Samu> but both would be ideal 14:43:10 <supermop_home> beyond annoying me from a geological perspective, it makes building rail, river or road transit that follows valleys a pain 14:43:41 <supermop_home> Samu if the downstream areas are wide, its is plenty easy to build locks 14:44:06 <supermop_home> rather I see no need to enforce easy lock placement in high alpine streams near the source 14:44:53 <Alberth> but those skiing tourists! 14:44:59 <Samu> i downloaded rivers_v11.zip, this thing is made of 50 patches? ugh, how do i patch them 14:45:11 <Samu> i thought there would be 1 file 14:45:39 <supermop_home> even at St. Louis, the historic center of barge shipping on the Mississippi, they had to build a length of canal to get around the rapids 14:46:23 <supermop_home> (that's what made St. louis important, besides the confluence - before the canal, all goods had to be transshipped there) 14:47:00 <Alberth> likely it got that position as they were the first to make a canal :) 14:47:29 <supermop_home> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chouteau_Island#/media/File:Chouteau,_Gabaret,_and_Mosenthein_Islands.jpg 14:47:46 <supermop_home> see canal and lock just 'below' the river 14:48:37 <frosch123> andythenorth: +1 to making forest not as rectangular as plantations 14:48:58 <andythenorth> hmm, I made them more rectangular earlier :) 14:49:05 <frosch123> :p 14:49:16 <andythenorth> in this one http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8389/forests.png 14:50:03 <frosch123> i guess V would put the whole forest on a belt: trees are planted in the front, grow along the moving belt, and are cut at the end 14:50:18 <andythenorth> that is a good idea 14:50:20 <andythenorth> moving forest 14:50:21 <Wolf01> Put the camp in the middle and a muddy path towards one side? 14:50:42 <andythenorth> Wolf01: it probably would look better with a path through it 14:50:58 <Alberth> supermop_home: ah, right, I see it now 14:51:41 <Samu> screw this, i don't know how to patch 14:51:45 <Alberth> that needs nrt, so you can drive a tram through the woods :) 14:51:50 <Samu> why didn't he make 1 single patch file 14:52:22 <Alberth> because there are a lot of small steps involved in making something as big as that 14:52:52 <Alberth> you saw how many commits I made from your aircraft display patch? 14:52:59 <supermop_home> before that was built in the 40s, shipping was either transfered at st. louis, or had to wait for a lot of rain to raise the water level over the rocks 14:53:09 <Samu> yes, i dunno why it has to be done like that 14:53:27 <Alberth> one elementary change in one commit 14:53:46 <Alberth> makes it simpler to find an error if one is made 14:54:37 <Alberth> likely the rainfall patch was made with mercurial MQ, a system to manage a stack of patches 14:54:44 <supermop_home> Samu you'd never get something huge that changes rivers, mountains, and town placement, and adds many more settings into trunk 14:55:21 <supermop_home> probably each change would have to be reviewed and added on its own 14:55:29 <Alberth> it would 14:56:21 <Samu> for me it makes it more complex 14:56:21 <Alberth> throwing it all on one big heap makes that nobody is going to understand how it changed the code 14:56:58 <supermop_home> Samumore than one person has to read and understand it 14:57:36 <supermop_home> if it is in small bits, it is easier for a stranger to check that each piece does not cause a problem 14:58:59 <Samu> i dont know which order i have to apply them 14:59:19 <Samu> i dont even know if they can be patched in a given order 14:59:42 <Samu> some features don't make sense alone, so i just end up doing both 14:59:47 <Samu> in 1 15:02:27 <Samu> those screenshots look awesome 15:02:35 <Samu> but i notice they're not lock-friendly 15:03:07 <supermop_home> how do you mean? 15:03:31 <Samu> double inclined slopes for example 15:03:40 <Samu> river spawning in that 15:04:38 <Alberth> the 'series' file gives the order 15:04:56 <supermop_home> not every river, or every part of a given river, is easy to engineer for navigation 15:07:16 <andythenorth> should be for gameplay though 15:07:33 <supermop_home> i'm not sure about that 15:07:51 <supermop_home> i agree that some rivers should, and that downstream areas should 15:07:57 <supermop_home> in most cases 15:08:42 <supermop_home> but players sending panamax ships to mountain tops without placing a single tile of canal seems a little dumb to me 15:11:16 <supermop_home> I think their is value in a map having a mix of 1) navigable rivers 2)rivers that are easy to make navigable, & 3) rivers probably not worth making navigable 15:12:16 <supermop_home> but if you already have code for making rivers more lock friendly Samu, you should try to integrate it with RRG if you want 15:12:42 <Samu> i'd have to understand his code 15:12:52 <Samu> don't even know how to patch 15:12:52 *** nekomaster has joined #openttd 15:13:28 <nekomaster> I dunno how to patch stuff in Windows 15:13:49 <Samu> i use tortoise svn, right click - apply patch, select trunk folder 15:14:25 <supermop_home> not saying you have to use it, just you've been talking about river code, and making them more 'flowy' fore lack of better word, so i thought that fork might be helpful to you 15:15:22 <Samu> when i have multiple patches selected, tortoisesvn doesn't list Apply Patch... 15:16:56 <Samu> oh well, i kinda like what i've done though, it's not realistic at all though 15:17:59 <Samu> for gameplay intentions, it's wide 15:18:10 <nekomaster> Hmm 15:18:20 <Samu> might allow 90 degree at times 15:18:23 <supermop_home> you might want to look at having your rivers carve the land a bit though 15:18:23 <Samu> not always 15:18:42 <supermop_home> so they don't get stuck by landscape at times 15:19:07 <Samu> that's something I don't know how 15:19:09 *** Darksecond has quit IRC 15:19:12 <nekomaster> Hmm 15:19:20 <supermop_home> rrg does it though 15:19:35 <nekomaster> I'm thinking of maybe trying to make a North American road vehicle set, but I dunno how I should go about things 15:20:22 <supermop_home> nekomaster: find a gpl rv set and steal its code 15:20:34 <Samu> there is no terraforming involved at all :( 15:20:38 <nekomaster> I know, but the other part is how I should go about doing things with vehicles 15:20:55 <supermop_home> build them in depot and give them orders? 15:21:12 <nekomaster> I mean what to include and what not 15:21:28 <Samu> pathfinder finds a route, and contours the terrain to reach the destination, never terraforms 15:22:05 <Samu> once found, it starts building the river. It plans it in 1-tile-wide 15:22:20 <Samu> i enlarged it to become 3-tile-wides while constructing it 15:22:51 <supermop_home> nekomaster: being too comprehensive if probably boring 15:23:07 *** Darksecond has joined #openttd 15:23:15 <nekomaster> I don't want to add every single truck from North America 15:24:03 <nekomaster> I'm thinking of going a Semi-Generic route where capacities and specs will benifit gameplay but designs of vehicles will be based on real life american vehicles 15:24:06 <nekomaster> or stuff used in America 15:25:07 <Samu> dont know how the river is generated in rainfall river gen, does it take an image and then convert it into a heightmap with extra water tiles? 15:28:51 <nekomaster> Though if I go with a Semi-Generic route then I'll also have to make up fictional names/companies and set up generations of vehicles 15:30:53 *** silentcontrib has joined #openttd 15:32:15 <andythenorth> nekomaster: did you get a compile working? 15:32:24 <nekomaster> Nope, still the same error as before 15:32:31 <Samu> guess not 15:32:37 <Samu> it really is computer generated 15:32:46 <nekomaster> As I said before I'm on Windows 10 using Subsystem for Linux way of compiling NML 15:32:57 *** Darkfirst has joined #openttd 15:33:52 <andythenorth> there must be a way to install python packages on windows 15:33:57 <andythenorth> it can’t be that cripplied 15:34:19 <Alberth> ha :p 15:34:21 <nekomaster> Well Subsystem for linux basically downloads a copy of ubuntu 15:34:32 <nekomaster> and provides terminal/bash from Ubuntu 15:34:50 <Alberth> so it has apt-get? 15:34:53 <nekomaster> Yes 15:34:57 <Alberth> spiffy 15:34:58 <nekomaster> thats how I had to install python and gcc 15:35:07 *** Darksecond has quit IRC 15:35:11 <nekomaster> https://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/home/wiki/Setting_up_a_Windows_compile_environment_using_WSL 15:35:19 <nekomaster> Thats what I'm working with 15:35:53 <Alberth> nice 15:36:09 <Alberth> so what's failing, still cpp? 15:36:37 <andythenorth> needs the python deps 15:36:39 <andythenorth> chameleon 15:36:45 <andythenorth> maybe docutils 15:36:51 <andythenorth> optionally, graphviz 15:36:56 <Alberth> firs-ish stuff 15:37:05 <nekomaster> it says I have chameleon but then says it can't find the module chameleon 15:37:18 <Alberth> there are several chameleons :p 15:37:30 <nekomaster> http://pastebin.com/raw/4aKpFFYC 15:38:22 <Alberth> yeah, something like that :p 15:38:51 <nekomaster> Mind you, anything that works in terminal for linux should work with what i have 15:39:08 <nekomaster> Or I should say, anything that works in Ubuntu's Terminal/bash shell 15:40:15 <Alberth> I know 15:40:48 <Alberth> I am just not that good with package stuff in debian/ubuntu, so it's a puzzle what to use 15:41:19 <nekomaster> I would set things up for Windows again with stuff like mingw, but that was a lot of work getting that all set up last time 15:41:38 <nekomaster> why can't things be easy 15:43:50 <Alberth> mingw is a mess too, more than bash shell, imho 15:44:03 <Alberth> it is easy, you just need to know how it works 15:44:30 <nekomaster> I'm just not use to dealing with complicated things 15:44:48 <nekomaster> maybe its my ADHD or something else but sometimes complex things just go over my head 15:45:06 <nekomaster> thats why for the longest time I avoided even trying to learn NML because I couldn't understand anything 15:48:18 <Alberth> https://wiki.debian.org/ListInstalledPackages this says to list the package you have with dpkg-query -l '*chameleon*' 15:49:15 <Alberth> andythenorth: what python does it need? 15:49:51 <nekomaster> i have no idea whats going on here 15:49:52 <nekomaster> http://pastebin.com/raw/bHDeYanU 15:49:53 <Alberth> http://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/python/python-pyramid there is this, but it's python2 15:50:27 <Alberth> indeed, that's the other chameleon 15:51:06 <nekomaster> my brain is overheating trying to understand that 15:52:35 <Alberth> there are 2 packages with "chameleon" in the name, and they're not related at all, other than both being a template expand engine :) 15:52:56 *** Snail has joined #openttd 15:53:13 <Alberth> I guess the simple test would be to install the other chameleon too, and see what happens 15:53:18 <nekomaster> I dunno how 15:53:28 <nekomaster> my brain hurts 15:53:49 <Alberth> only problem is that firs may use python3, and that other chameleon is for python2, so it may fail 15:54:04 <nekomaster> Yeah, andy said I need Python 3 which I do have 15:54:17 <nekomaster> Python 3.4.3 15:54:28 <Alberth> ah, ok, no point in installing the python2 package thus, ok 15:54:49 <Alberth> do you know the name of the ubuntu version? trusty, or xenial, or ? 15:56:06 <nekomaster> Ubuntu 14.04 LTS 15:56:15 <nekomaster> so Trusty 15:57:02 <Alberth> great 15:57:26 <nekomaster> is that a good great or a sarcastic great? 15:59:19 <andythenorth> Alberth: needs 3.4 or 3.5 or so 16:00:45 <Alberth> good great, it narrows the search 16:00:57 <andythenorth> whatever happened to “virtualenv -p=python3”, the “pip install [module]” 16:01:03 <andythenorth> is that not a thing on windows? 16:01:26 <Alberth> nekomaster is basically on ubuntu (ie linux) 16:01:43 <Alberth> but with a 'stable' distribution 16:02:03 <Alberth> there is no python3 pyramid chameleon for trusty, it seems 16:02:25 <Alberth> so you must install from source, I guess 16:03:57 <nekomaster> i wouldn't know how to do that 16:04:48 <Alberth> pypi has the sourcecode, now to find the install command :) 16:06:26 <Alberth> likely something along the lines of installing ply 16:06:54 <nekomaster> i already have ply 16:06:57 <nekomaster> as far as I know 16:07:05 <nekomaster> did I mention my head hurts? 16:07:30 <nekomaster> I litterally mean that, I dont understand anything here 16:07:50 <Alberth> the procedure is mostly the same, I mean 16:08:16 <Alberth> https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pyramid_chameleon that's the source code package, download the .tar.gz 16:08:30 <nekomaster> I dunno where to put it 16:09:02 <Alberth> we need to unpack and install it, so some temporary directory is fine 16:09:31 <Alberth> in your home directory, for example 16:09:47 <nekomaster> I just put it in C:\Tempo 16:09:56 <nekomaster> where I put the source for NML and Ply as well 16:10:02 <Alberth> ok 16:10:09 <Alberth> you can run linux commands there? 16:10:27 <nekomaster> already have commandline open and i'm in bash 16:10:43 <nekomaster> cd /c/tempo/chameleon 16:10:51 <Alberth> in that directory, enter tar xzf pyramid_chameleon-0.3.tar.gz 16:11:02 <nekomaster> its already unpacked 16:11:09 <Alberth> magic :) 16:11:12 <nekomaster> chameleon is the directory I unpacked it to 16:11:19 <nekomaster> 7zip is my friend 16:11:36 <Alberth> there is a setup.py file there? 16:11:55 <nekomaster> yes 16:13:25 <Alberth> python3.4 setup,py install 16:14:11 <nekomaster> its doing things now 16:14:26 <Alberth> hopefully the right things :p 16:14:30 <nekomaster> hopefully 16:14:54 <Alberth> it's a pity there is no ubuntu package for it, would have been cleaner and simpler 16:15:06 <nekomaster> yeah 16:15:22 <nekomaster> and road hog still errors 16:15:29 <Alberth> different error? 16:15:32 <nekomaster> ImportError : no module named 'markdown" 16:15:39 <Alberth> ah, progress :p 16:15:46 <nekomaster> I suppose 16:15:57 <Alberth> let me see what I have installed here 16:16:19 <nekomaster> hopefully I don't have to download every library for ubuntu just to compile road hog 16:17:09 <Alberth> every library is a few thousand packages :p 16:18:11 <andythenorth> oh it was markdown not docutils :) 16:18:12 <andythenorth> sorry 16:18:24 <nekomaster> lol 16:18:29 <andythenorth> I work on multiple projects, some use one, some use the other 16:19:21 <nekomaster> though the thing is, roadhog also looks very complicated 16:19:41 <Alberth> http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/python3-markdown at least a markdown package seems to exist, I have 2 packages installed, so 50% chance :p 16:20:25 <Alberth> sudo apt-get install python3-markdown should do the trick, I think 16:20:38 <andythenorth> nekomaster : Road Hog is complicated because you have to draw the graphics precisely 16:20:51 <andythenorth> on the other hand, it automates all the cargos /\o/\ 16:21:09 <nekomaster> the code for everything looks complicated 16:21:32 <Alberth> iron horse isn't exactly consistent with cargo graphics, slag gets different colours in different wagons :p 16:21:51 <andythenorth> Alberth: yeah, that needs fixed :) 16:21:55 <andythenorth> "Iron Horse 2" 16:22:32 <nekomaster> when things get too much for me like right now, I just feel like going back to bed 16:22:33 <Alberth> steel random graphics are great, keep those :) 16:22:35 <andythenorth> nekomaster: this is more complicated than all of the nml for a vehicle? o_O http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/road-hog/repository/entry/src/vehicles/brass_monkey.py 16:22:53 <nekomaster> I'm use to things being like how I did with 2cc Trains or NARS Addon 16:23:58 <nekomaster> in the mean time, I can see a road-hog.tar now 16:23:59 <nekomaster> :) 16:24:04 <andythenorth> ach, trees need really compressed together on a steep slope 16:24:11 <andythenorth> nekomaster: anything in ‘docs’? 16:24:28 <nekomaster> what? 16:25:13 <andythenorth> when you run make, the docs folder should be automatically built 16:25:22 <nekomaster> yeah, thats there 16:25:25 <nekomaster> and so is the grf and tar now 16:25:30 <nekomaster> make ran fine this time 16:25:41 <andythenorth> graphics are all in src/graphics 16:25:56 <andythenorth> as long as you don’t want to change *anything* about how RH works, it’s easy :) 16:25:56 <Alberth> \o/ 16:25:57 <nekomaster> I saw that, but I'm still confused by how everything is set up 16:26:16 <andythenorth> there is a python source file for each vehicle 16:26:20 <andythenorth> in src/vehicles 16:26:55 <nekomaster> Well for an American Road vehicle set, I'd like to at some point have Horses, Steam wagons/trucks, Early Buses/Trucks, Rigid trucks, Tractor-Trailer 18wheelers, and Doubles 16:27:29 <andythenorth> they’re all possible, except horses 16:27:35 <andythenorth> horses would need animation, which isn’t provided 16:27:46 <andythenorth> let’s make a ‘neko’ truck 16:27:49 <nekomaster> thats fine for now 16:27:57 <andythenorth> go to src/vehicles 16:28:11 <nekomaster> im there now 16:28:20 <nekomaster> (btw I still have bash open jsut incase) 16:28:28 <andythenorth> copy ‘yeoman.py’ and rename the copy to ‘neko.py' 16:28:54 <nekomaster> ok done, then what, open it in Notepad++? 16:28:57 <andythenorth> yup 16:29:06 <andythenorth> you’ll also need to open the docs in a browser 16:29:14 <andythenorth> explorer should do it 16:29:28 <nekomaster> Yeah, thats all i have for a file explorer 16:29:31 <andythenorth> (open index.html) 16:29:39 <andythenorth> I mean IE ;) 16:29:48 <nekomaster> I have chrome 16:29:48 <andythenorth> or chrome or firefox 16:29:54 <nekomaster> screw Edge 16:30:17 <andythenorth> anyway open index.html, then go to ‘code reference’ and scroll to the end 16:30:48 <andythenorth> you need to find the last used ID 16:31:28 <nekomaster> I'm on the code reference page and the last id is the Nutbrook ID 960 16:31:42 <andythenorth> ok so we’ll use 970 for ‘neko' 16:31:45 <andythenorth> they go up in 10s 16:31:49 <nekomaster> ok 16:31:52 <andythenorth> so go to neko.py in notepad 16:31:52 <nekomaster> simple enough 16:32:03 <nekomaster> neko.py is still open in notepad++ 16:32:10 <andythenorth> change the numeric ID to 970 16:32:19 <nekomaster> Base numeric id? 16:32:22 <andythenorth> yup 16:32:28 <andythenorth> change the id to ‘neko’ (lower case) 16:32:37 <andythenorth> change the title to ‘Neko' 16:32:38 <nekomaster> done and done 16:32:48 <nekomaster> Neko [Open Truck]? 16:32:58 <andythenorth> yup 16:33:01 <nekomaster> ok 16:33:06 <andythenorth> then go to src/rosters/brit.py 16:33:19 <nekomaster> brb 16:34:50 <nekomaster> ok, im back, and I have the brit roster open in notepad now 16:35:01 <nekomaster> nice that notepad++ has a tab feature 16:35:52 <andythenorth> find ‘merrivale’ 16:35:54 <dlite> I have both iron and coal mine next to station, however, all of my engineering supplies seem to go only to the coal mine. is there any nice way of making something else happen aside of making a second station which only covers the iron mine and split the incoming trains evenly between stations? 16:36:04 <andythenorth> and add neko on a line after it, with a , 16:36:09 <andythenorth> all lower case 16:36:28 <nekomaster> ok, thats done and done 16:36:38 <nekomaster> merrivale, neko, nettlebridge 16:36:52 <andythenorth> ok, scroll down, around line 110 or so, there’s the buy menu list 16:36:57 <andythenorth> you need to add neko there as 16:36:59 <andythenorth> well * 16:37:08 <andythenorth> you can choose where it goes in the order 16:37:20 <nekomaster> ahh 16:37:27 <nekomaster> because line 110 is glenmore, 16:38:17 <andythenorth> I was guessing, my code is a bit different, because I have changes not in the main repo 16:38:25 <nekomaster> ahh 16:38:31 <andythenorth> anyway, same thing, add it lower case, with a , 16:38:45 <andythenorth> then one more step 16:38:58 <nekomaster> well I decided to go down to merrivale in the list there and then add "neko," 16:39:01 <andythenorth> ok 16:39:04 <nekomaster> but thats done 16:39:06 <andythenorth> now src/graphics/vehicles 16:39:17 <nekomaster> ok, im there 16:39:19 <andythenorth> find yeoman_template.png, copy it, rename copy to neko_template.png 16:39:30 <andythenorth> then check all files are saved, try make 16:40:56 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 16:42:30 <nekomaster> ok i hit make now 16:42:54 <nekomaster> I wonder though, can road hog do small early trucks/buses, and long 18-wheeler trucks? 16:43:31 <andythenorth> yes 16:43:59 <nekomaster> Because gotta consider that American stuff tends to be bigger then british stuff 16:44:07 <nekomaster> partially because of the long nose trucks 16:44:20 <andythenorth> look in the docs - ‘road vehicles’ page 16:44:48 <andythenorth> max length of any single unit is 8/8 16:44:51 <nekomaster> Ahh 16:45:13 <nekomaster> I think 8/8 would only be needed for long 3 axle trailers 16:45:18 <andythenorth> min length is probably 3/8 or so 16:45:30 <andythenorth> I can’t remember what lengths I made the offsets for 16:45:57 <nekomaster> well I imagine that if I stay in the same places as the templates things should be fine 16:47:09 <andythenorth> ha ha 16:47:15 <andythenorth> I made a truck with 4 trailers :P 16:47:19 <nekomaster> WTF 16:47:26 <nekomaster> that would belong in the outback 16:47:30 <nekomaster> not in North america 16:47:30 <andythenorth> go back to neko.py 16:47:35 *** eekee has joined #openttd 16:47:35 <nekomaster> ok 16:47:39 <dlite> andythenorth: I can't seem to figure out, keywords to search help from wiki? 16:47:41 <nekomaster> just have to open notepad++ 16:47:45 <andythenorth> around line 18 16:47:56 <andythenorth> add a , to ‘cargo_length = 4' 16:48:07 <nekomaster> add a what? 16:48:14 <andythenorth> I’ll paste 16:48:40 <andythenorth> nekomaster: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pdrpkkwh6 16:48:53 <andythenorth> replace lines 16-19 with that 16:48:58 <nekomaster> oh i see 16:50:18 <nekomaster> ok so now bash -c "make -b -r -R" 16:50:19 <nekomaster> :) 16:50:42 <nekomaster> I love that I can call linux commands with 'bash -c "commandhere" ' 16:52:02 <nekomaster> I added flashing pixles to the Neko_template and I found it quickly ingame 16:52:05 <nekomaster> now to build it 16:53:02 <LordAro> frosch123: https://herbsutter.com/2017/03/24/trip-report-winter-iso-c-standards-meeting-kona-c17-is-complete/ relevant from yesterday 16:53:07 <nekomaster> and I have a 4 trailer neko truck 16:54:17 *** Snail has quit IRC 16:54:27 *** Snail has joined #openttd 16:54:58 <Alberth> hmm, 30 lines error message for an unknown variable :p 16:55:05 *** Snail has quit IRC 16:55:06 <nekomaster> Lol, the Neko truck with 4 trailers takes so long to speed up with 100 tons of coal 16:55:14 *** Snail has joined #openttd 16:55:15 <nekomaster> even with a 450 HP engine 16:55:27 <Alberth> decrease freight multiplier :) 16:55:42 <nekomaster> that only applies to rail vehicles 16:55:52 *** Snail has quit IRC 16:55:55 <nekomaster> I'm not seeing a weight multipler like x2 on my trucks 16:56:11 <Alberth> it's in the settings 16:56:14 *** Snail has joined #openttd 16:56:23 *** Gja has quit IRC 16:56:29 <nekomaster> what settings? openttd settings or road hog parameters? 16:56:36 <Alberth> openttd settings 16:56:40 *** Snail has quit IRC 16:56:52 *** Snail has joined #openttd 16:56:56 <nekomaster> Yeah, it says Weight multiplier for frieght to simulate HEAVY TRAINS 16:56:57 <Alberth> or do freight multiplier settings only apply to trains? I hope not 16:57:02 <nekomaster> trains only 16:57:15 <peter1138> there's a separate setting for trucks 16:57:15 <Alberth> :o sorry for the noise 16:57:17 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 16:57:19 <nekomaster> its ok 16:57:28 *** Snail has quit IRC 16:57:35 <peter1138> or at least i thought there was :p 16:57:38 <nekomaster> but no, the trucks have a 100 ton capacity thanks to andy's shinadigans 16:57:48 <peter1138> ah no, i was thinking of the slope 16:57:54 *** Snail has joined #openttd 16:58:39 <nekomaster> I wonder how I should procced from here, because I'd rather work with a clean slate rather then say, adding stuff to road hog at the moment 16:58:44 *** Snail has joined #openttd 16:59:22 *** Snail has joined #openttd 16:59:29 <nekomaster> PLus another issue is that if I make a Semi-Generic American Road Vehicle set, now i have to make graphics... blargh 16:59:35 <nekomaster> i hate doing sprites 16:59:52 *** Snail has quit IRC 17:00:12 *** Snail has joined #openttd 17:00:40 *** Snail has quit IRC 17:00:51 <Wolf01> https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/awngZWW_460s.jpg is cat? 17:01:03 *** Snail has joined #openttd 17:01:05 <nekomaster> nope, its your imagination 17:01:08 <nekomaster> there is no cat there 17:01:13 <nekomaster> just lots of fuz 17:01:28 *** Snail has quit IRC 17:02:03 *** Snail has joined #openttd 17:02:39 <nekomaster> hmm 17:02:43 *** Snail has joined #openttd 17:07:43 <andythenorth> nekomaster: to start again, you’d need a new roster 17:08:10 <andythenorth> you don’t have to use Road Hog, I just wanted to show you the option :) 17:08:30 <nekomaster> well if roadhog can easily deal with all kinds of sizes, it might be nice 17:08:43 <andythenorth> dlite: you have to make a second station 17:08:53 <andythenorth> it’s one of the annoying things about supplies 17:11:47 <nekomaster> Hmm, I wonder when the Semi-Trailer generations should start, techincally Mack started selling Articulated trucks in the 30's and 40s, but 18-wheeler culture didn't start until the 70's 17:12:10 <nekomaster> having Semi-trailers start in the 70's could keep them from overlapping with the Rigid trucks as well 17:12:39 <Samu> what does it mean Identifier not found... damn it 17:13:00 <Samu> Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error C3861 'GetAvailShipTracks': identifier not found openttd D:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\ship_cmd.cpp 155 17:13:15 <andythenorth> nekomaster: all articulated, all the way... 17:13:41 <nekomaster> andythenorth: Remember, not all trucks in North America are 18-wheelers 17:14:01 <nekomaster> most of the trucks I see in the city are things like 5-ton trucks/rigid trucks 17:14:16 <nekomaster> Its only on the major roads that I see the majority of 18-wheelers passing through oshawa 17:14:56 <Alberth> Samu, perhaps GetAvailShipTracks does not exist? 17:15:20 <Samu> Severity Code Description Project File Line Suppression State Error (active) argument of type "const Ship *" is incompatible with parameter of type "Ship *" openttd d:\OpenTTD\trunk\src\ship_cmd.cpp 159 17:16:40 <Alberth> const Ship and Ship are different, the former has an additional promise you won't change the content of Ship 17:17:24 <Alberth> so you cannot use a const Ship as substitute for a Ship, since the code using the latter may make a modification 17:18:38 <peter1138> "Dear uploader, your heightmap is broken" 17:18:43 <Samu> i see, it seems i can't use these then 17:18:55 <Samu> i don't want to change ship 17:22:27 <Alberth> either find a pointer that is not const, or change the code of the sub-routine to take a const Ship pointer 17:22:44 <Alberth> latter is likely non-trivial 17:23:30 <Alberth> (adding "const" is easy, but making it compile again can be difficult) 17:25:55 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 17:25:59 <Samu> i'm not really sure what I want though 17:26:00 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 17:26:01 <nekomaster> Another thing that will be difficult with making an American style Road vehicle set is what to add without being too much for me to handle 17:26:31 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 17:26:49 <nekomaster> but I really want to add things like Cargo Vans and Delivery Trucks/Cube Vans for town cargo stuff, as well as seperate Mail and Armored Trucks 17:27:13 <nekomaster> on top of the Steam, Early Petrol, Rigid, Semi-Trailer, and Double's Truck's 17:32:44 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:32:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:33:35 <nekomaster> hmm, is andy still around? 17:34:06 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 17:35:36 <Alberth> yes 17:36:01 <nekomaster> I wonder if Road hog's code can also handle stuff like Light Rail Transit and metro stuff 17:36:14 <nekomaster> Then again not like theres too much LRT stuff in north america 17:36:32 <Alberth> but he may be busy, if you're in no hurry, just type "andy" and the words you want to say, and wait 17:36:44 <nekomaster> I'm in no hurry 17:37:03 <Alberth> if you need him specifically, and now, then mention his username, and he'll get highlighted 17:37:09 <nekomaster> Yeah, I know 17:37:15 <nekomaster> I've been around on IRC since 2008 17:37:21 <nekomaster> mostly on FurAffinity though 17:37:44 <Alberth> andy tends to leave and join again multiple times during the day :) 17:37:52 <nekomaster> Ahh 17:38:29 <andythenorth> I tend to go away and placate screaming children 17:38:36 <Alberth> so when he's not available, a feasible strategy is to wait until he joins again 17:38:36 <andythenorth> or rescue them from disasters 17:38:37 <nekomaster> you have kids? 17:38:45 <andythenorth> at least 1, not more than 2 17:39:03 <Alberth> excluding firs, roadhog, ironhorse, and squid :p 17:39:04 <nekomaster> andythenorth: Hey Andy, if your there can Roadhog Handle Subways/metro stuff? I've already seen that we can have many trailers added to trucks/trams, but can we have length refits like in HEQS? 17:39:29 <andythenorth> no, I think they’re weird :) 17:39:37 <nekomaster> What? 17:40:05 <andythenorth> refits using cargo subtype are usually a bad idea 17:40:10 <nekomaster> Ahh 17:40:13 <andythenorth> although they’re in unsinkable sam :( 17:40:17 <nekomaster> lol 17:40:20 <andythenorth> and I don’t like it, but eh 17:40:21 <andythenorth> needs must 17:41:10 <nekomaster> I would like to have Metro stuff on tramlines, that way in the future if someone makes an elevated rail hack for RATT's then I'll have something 17:41:20 <nekomaster> plus I always wanted american style blocky subways 17:41:29 <nekomaster> great for local metro stuff 17:41:59 <andythenorth> if you want metro as trams, just use the trams ;) 17:42:48 <andythenorth> should be fine 17:42:57 <nekomaster> I do plan on having american styled Streetcars 17:43:15 <andythenorth> it took a long time to do Road Hog, I’d set a limited goal ;) 17:43:48 <andythenorth> first commit was 2013, and released last year, so ~3 years 17:43:51 <andythenorth> with Dan helping 17:44:05 <nekomaster> Well at the moment I'd at least like to get the Early, Rigid, Semi-Trailers and maybe Doubles going 17:44:12 <andythenorth> I would do buses or trucks 17:44:15 <andythenorth> yes 17:44:24 <nekomaster> oh yes, I keep forgetting about he busses 17:44:35 <andythenorth> buses are quite forgetable 17:44:38 <nekomaster> only thing is though about early stuff is they're so weird 17:44:53 <nekomaster> tiny hoods and curvy blocky bodies 17:44:56 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:45:05 <nekomaster> like 1910's or 1920's trucks/buses 17:45:10 <andythenorth> PITA to draw 17:45:35 <nekomaster> funny thing is that in the past I was able to do sprites but not code 17:45:40 <nekomaster> but now I loath doing sprites 17:45:54 <andythenorth> the Honister dump truck would give you a basic 6 axle rigid bonnet truck from 1940s-1960s 17:45:57 <andythenorth> looks like a GMC 17:46:45 <andythenorth> http://www.bsrw.org/images/Photos-rails%20to%20Cumberland/WorkingRR2005%20(3).jpg 17:47:12 <nekomaster> Yeah, probably more 60's style 17:47:21 <andythenorth> or more like a mack even 17:47:25 <nekomaster> Trucks from the 40's and 50's where more curvy 17:47:31 <andythenorth> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/41/ff/4e/41ff4e700714e2050be0479178db336b.jpg 17:47:41 <andythenorth> that’s 1995 ^ 17:47:46 <nekomaster> Yeah 17:49:28 <nekomaster> For Cargo Vans, heres an example of what I'd like to add : https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Mercedes-Benz_Sprinter_Kastenwagen_313_CDI_(W_906%2C_Facelift)_%E2%80%93_Frontansicht%2C_8._September_2013%2C_B%C3%B6sensell.jpg 17:52:37 <nekomaster> Looks like the current best Mercedes Sprinter (the 3500 Super-high roof) can haul up to 2.5 tons of goods IRL, though I wonder how much I could fudge that number to make it worth while for a light route ingame 17:52:56 <nekomaster> Being a current generation Cargo Van, perhaps 4-8 Tons? 17:57:36 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 18:03:04 <andythenorth> I wouldn’t do less than 15 18:03:09 <andythenorth> probably 20t 18:04:07 <andythenorth> there’s a capacity parameter for people who want more realistic 18:04:08 <nekomaster> Heres some stuff I was thinking of doing over time 18:04:08 <nekomaster> http://pastebin.com/raw/1aafWL71 18:04:39 <nekomaster> I'd rather keep cargo vans and delievery trucks as small light duty stuff, perhaps for serving small towns or low output industry 18:05:05 <nekomaster> But for anything more you'll want to go for Rigid or Semi-Trailer trucks 18:05:25 <andythenorth> the trade off I see is this 18:05:32 <andythenorth> 1. small vehicles don’t get used 18:05:35 *** Gja has joined #openttd 18:05:43 <andythenorth> 2. drawing vehicles is boring 18:05:50 <andythenorth> conclusion: don’t draw any that won’t be used 18:06:06 <nekomaster> well for now thats why I just want to focus on the regular trucks 18:06:09 <andythenorth> but I had to learn the hard way :P 18:06:19 <andythenorth> so many deleted sprites :P 18:06:20 <nekomaster> Oh and busses 18:08:12 <nekomaster> I'm the kind of person that likes to add lots of things, even if they wont always be used 18:08:35 <nekomaster> Thats kind of why I made the NARS addon set to add more north american locomotives 18:14:54 <andythenorth> such drawing 18:15:17 <nekomaster> Well thats why for now I'll just be focusing on the more important stuff that players will probably use 18:17:18 <peter1138> 4096x4096, such embigness 18:17:31 <andythenorth> nekomaster: if you draw a sleeper behind the neko truck, you pretty much have a peterbilt or kenworth 18:17:36 <andythenorth> peter1138: how silly 18:17:40 <nekomaster> Heh 18:17:54 <andythenorth> are you testing how improved rivers work on big maps? o_O 18:18:18 <nekomaster> well i guess its "go big or go home" 18:19:43 * andythenorth goes back to yak-shaving forests 18:23:11 <peter1138> "very low" towns is still far too much on this size 18:23:18 <peter1138> maybe due to the amount of water, i dunno 18:23:38 <peter1138> does that scale? i guess not 18:24:36 <andythenorth> doesn’t scale with water 18:24:56 <andythenorth> I sometimes use bigger map and lots of water to get industry density I want 18:26:06 <andythenorth> bloody slopes :P http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8393/forest_slopes.png 18:26:27 * andythenorth has a solution for that, it’s just tedious to test 18:26:29 <nekomaster> what are you trying to do? 18:26:37 <nekomaster> slope aware forests? 18:26:47 <andythenorth> slope aware forests with the trees in the right place 18:26:52 <andythenorth> it’s been buggy in FIRS for years 18:26:55 <nekomaster> yeah 18:26:57 <nekomaster> hmm 18:27:09 <andythenorth> it’s just offsets 18:27:37 <nekomaster> Another thing is with a North american vehicle set, I wonder which generations/decades I should go with for each type of vehicle 18:27:38 <peter1138> i like low density 18:27:57 <andythenorth> nekomaster: new generation about 30 years 18:28:05 <andythenorth> I never solved that tbh though 18:28:28 <andythenorth> every grf is either too long to wait, or too many new vehicles in a short time 18:28:55 <nekomaster> I was thinking for Internal combustion engine busses, it would be maybe 1890, 1900, 1915, and 1930 18:29:22 <nekomaster> After which busses start taking on the shapes we know in america today 18:31:06 <nekomaster> But after the "early" generation, I dunno which decade to really start with, be it 1940 or 1950, I was thinking that the First generation of rear engined busses would start with something like the GMC Old looks 18:31:25 <nekomaster> And the last would be something from today 18:33:39 <Alberth> andy, have you ever tried replacing 1 engine every decade or so, so you have a new generation for all train types in 30 or so years? 18:34:29 <peter1138> andythenorth, "maximum coastal distance" in firs, is that actually from the coast, or from the edge of the map? 18:34:42 <andythenorth> probably the coast, but eh 18:34:46 <andythenorth> let me look 18:35:19 <andythenorth> apparently http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/templates/location_check_macros_industry.pynml#L15 18:35:38 <nekomaster> Hmm... can Road Hog do Articulated busses? 18:35:49 <andythenorth> hmm is that the right check for FIRS? 18:35:51 * andythenorth looks more 18:36:48 <peter1138> heh 18:38:09 <andythenorth> not sure what that check does 18:38:41 <andythenorth> I didn’t write it 18:38:45 <nekomaster> lol 18:38:51 <andythenorth> I suppose I could read nml docs eh 18:39:20 <peter1138> :D 18:39:31 <andythenorth> "If the industry is built on water, this variable gives the distance of the closest dry land tile, otherwise it gives the distance of the closest water tile." 18:39:51 <andythenorth> so it’s a flip-flop check, depending on current tile type 18:39:56 <andythenorth> I love that crap :| 18:40:19 <nekomaster> You seem to hate a lot of things you've had a hand in making 18:41:15 <peter1138> hmm 18:41:23 <peter1138> stuck on industry generation now ;( 18:42:05 <peter1138> ah there it goes 18:42:16 <andythenorth> http://www.thecodelesscode.com/case/205?lang=zh&trans=c3r&name=Suku 18:42:41 <andythenorth> so yeah, that is a max distance check 18:42:53 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 18:42:56 <andythenorth> nekomaster: articulated buses, you just add more units 18:43:09 <andythenorth> consist.add_unit() adds an articulated part 18:43:51 <nekomaster> Because I was thinking perhaps maybe having Single Unit Local Busses and Articulated Local buses, and dropping the regional busses because it seems like most transit companies in North america use the same kind of bus for regional and local routes 18:44:08 <andythenorth> try it with one of the buses, like the glenmore 18:44:20 <andythenorth> oh you’d have to modify the spritesheet actually 18:44:24 <nekomaster> yeah 18:44:35 <andythenorth> if you do add_unit() you have to give it sprites 18:44:55 <andythenorth> if you do ‘repeat = x’ then it will repeat the unit with same sprites 18:45:16 <andythenorth> there are no docs or anything for this though, just the code :P 18:45:51 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Commit by translators :: r27828 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2017-03-25 19:45:40 +0100 ) 18:45:52 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: -Update from Eints: 18:45:53 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: croatian: 2 changes by VoyagerOne 18:45:54 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: italian: 6 changes by lorenzodv 18:45:55 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: english (us): 15 changes by Supercheese 18:45:56 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: (...) 18:46:47 <Alberth> and andy, as walking documentation :) 18:47:31 <nekomaster> Also I probably wont be adding double decker buses, except maybe for the last (current day) generation of Coaches 18:47:34 <Alberth> or perhaps more appropriate, as walking oracle :p 18:47:48 <peter1138> hmm, game freezes 18:47:54 <nekomaster> Where I live I've noticed more and more Double Decker GO Buses (regional/intercity bus company) 18:47:56 <peter1138> maybe 4096x4096 firs is not a good idea :p 18:49:28 <andythenorth> what did you do to it? :( 18:50:02 * andythenorth test 18:50:13 <andythenorth> 20k industries is totally ridiculous 18:50:20 <andythenorth> even AI won’t build 20k stations 18:50:46 <andythenorth> and map-gen is so slow 18:51:33 <peter1138> it was a heightmap 18:51:46 <nekomaster> Hmm... I guess if I can't find any "early" american buses, perhaps I have to make some fake american looking ones? 18:51:46 <peter1138> i think what i actually want is a crop of the heightmap 18:56:52 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 18:57:28 <peter1138> i guess autorefit only works if the station already has cargo waiting 18:58:20 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 19:01:04 <andythenorth> station refit? 19:01:13 <andythenorth> to fixed cargo, or ‘any available’? 19:05:44 <peter1138> Samu, is a buoy a suitable site for an industry? 19:13:28 <Wolf01> 42 19:13:32 <nekomaster> 24 19:14:15 <nekomaster> I wonder how I should go about selecting busses to base designs and generations off of 19:14:35 <nekomaster> I know that for Coach busses, they should start in 1955 with something that looks like a GMC Scenicruiser 19:14:47 *** Gja has quit IRC 19:17:33 <andythenorth> nekomaster: I would select them by finding existing sprites :P 19:17:33 * andythenorth is lazy 19:17:41 <nekomaster> Lol 19:17:55 <nekomaster> well I want my sprites to match the size and "style" of Road Hog 19:18:13 <nekomaster> Though the Coach busses might end up having to be say, 8/8 19:18:20 <nekomaster> they tend to be rather long 19:18:32 <nekomaster> and usually have tandem axels 19:20:44 <nekomaster> It'd be nice if there where some "Bus" fans around that I could ask about popular/note worthy transit and coach buses 19:24:23 *** Progman has joined #openttd 19:30:43 *** eekee_ has joined #openttd 19:35:36 <Samu> peter1138: are you talking about the bug i reported? 19:36:06 <Wolf01> What else? 19:36:10 <Samu> it's the special water tile check 19:36:32 *** eekee has quit IRC 19:36:51 <Samu> the oil rig isn't built on them, but it requires checking if the nearby tiles are water 19:37:26 <Samu> buoys, for this case, are water 19:37:48 <Samu> but since the tile type of buoys is not water, it denies oil rig from spawning there 19:38:04 <Wolf01> The problem is that OTTD is very inconsistent in many cases, this is one of them: you can't spawn an oilrig next to a buoy but you can place a buoy next to an oilrig 19:38:34 <Wolf01> I found problems with docks too, where you can remove all the water after building the dock 19:39:19 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 19:41:23 <nekomaster> Heres an interesting thing for a North American commuter transit company 19:41:24 <nekomaster> https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/File:GO_Transit_8345-a.jpg 19:41:27 <Wolf01> I think the building condition should persist even after the building, but it's really tricky in some situations 19:41:40 <nekomaster> its interesting seeing these green GO Transit double deckers zooming along at 60-80 Km\h 19:41:58 <nekomaster> My dad likes the top front view 19:50:14 <nekomaster> Possible Coach bus Generations? http://pastebin.com/raw/Pi0X8Dji 19:50:54 <andythenorth> 15 years is close 19:51:18 <andythenorth> @calc 2015-1945 19:51:18 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 70 19:51:23 <andythenorth> @calc 70./4 19:51:23 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 17.5 19:51:27 <nekomaster> Yeah but Coaches as we know it today didn't really start happening in USA until the 40's with the ACF-Brill 19:52:02 <nekomaster> I basically picked what was a fast and comfy coach style bus 19:52:14 <nekomaster> rather then some "fancy spruced up" Transit bus 19:58:14 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 20:09:35 <peter1138> Samu, but I can build an oilrig next to a buoy without the patch? 20:34:01 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 20:36:45 <Samu> you need to look at the layout 20:37:04 <Samu> it was in some wiki 20:40:17 <Samu> im trying to find... 20:42:55 <Samu> can't find the wiki... https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p3qegpnbn 20:43:14 <Samu> this is the layout for oil ring, xx is where it checks for water 20:43:17 <Samu> rig* 20:43:38 <peter1138> hmmm 20:43:49 <peter1138> but not all the intermediate tiles? odd 20:44:19 <nekomaster> Wheres the link for the Road and Tram Types build? 20:44:24 <Samu> yeah it's a strange layout 20:45:31 <Samu> this layout was in some wiki page, i can't remember where 20:45:35 <Samu> i got it from there 20:45:45 <peter1138> It's in src/table/build_industry.h 20:45:52 <Samu> yes, also there 20:46:01 <peter1138> Canonical. 20:46:05 <Samu> but hard to visualise 20:46:07 <peter1138> Wonder if it should all the tiles... 20:46:21 <peter1138> +check 20:47:36 <peter1138> Also would be funny to have the check when terraforming 20:51:34 <andythenorth> so why is there malware in the FIRS pngs? 20:51:38 <supermop_home> need a cool sort of metabolist image to have printed on my phone case 20:52:02 <andythenorth> my OS must be smoking crack 20:52:12 <supermop_home> I feel like best way to acheive is to create a town set of abstract vector inspired houses 20:52:41 <supermop_home> and then try to get a neat town to grow 20:52:48 <andythenorth> https://sosbrutalism.tumblr.com/post/157144893118/we-were-never-able-to-find-the-exact-location-of 20:53:26 <supermop_home> andy - if openttd is a gpl'd program 20:53:43 <supermop_home> does any image created by the game become gpl itself? 20:55:04 <supermop_home> also the tower is only really brutalist under construction - at least in it's current state with all the verandas enclosed it just looks generic 20:55:47 <andythenorth> supermop: no absolutely not 20:56:00 <andythenorth> does anything created on linux become GPL? 20:56:00 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:56:11 <supermop_home> ok lets split some more hairs then: 20:56:33 <supermop_home> can a newgrf have gpl code and non gpl sprites? 20:56:45 <supermop_home> the resulting grf becoming gpl 20:57:04 <supermop_home> does that retroactively require the sprites to become gpl? 20:57:48 <andythenorth> newgrf is compiled 20:57:58 <andythenorth> it’s not quite an executable binary, but it’s a compiled package 20:58:01 <andythenorth> it’s GPL 20:58:03 <supermop_home> or can I as holder of copywrite on sprites grant a specific license to them to be used in a gpl project without releasig the sprites under gpl 20:58:11 <andythenorth> nope 20:58:55 <supermop_home> so it is not just derivative work, but also constituent work? 21:00:05 *** Snail has joined #openttd 21:00:10 <andythenorth> you can release the sprites under other licenses, but you can’t escape GPL if it’s a GPL newgrf 21:00:27 <eekee_> gpl is not intended to (and i believe cannot) restrict the rights of the person who placed them under the gpl 21:01:01 <eekee_> s/them/his work/ 21:01:48 <supermop_home> so releasing a later derivative work under gpl would retroactively force all prior contributive works to also take a GPL license? 21:01:54 <eekee_> hell no 21:02:43 <eekee_> i've heard that even the gpl's linking clause may be unenforcable, although that may be different in different US states 21:03:19 <eekee_> in general though, once you've released something, you can't retroactively specify a licence 21:03:41 <supermop_home> in the past I have, and in the future I plan to, created abstracted giclee prints of various metabolist and brutalist architectural inspiration 21:04:35 <supermop_home> none of which have been GPL, - in fact they have been in editions of 10 or 50, and sold when possible 21:05:07 <eekee_> i doubt there's any legal system anywhere on earth which says someone else applying the gpl to your work could restrict yuour rights 21:05:27 <supermop_home> I would like to create similar art, but at the scale and constraints of an openttd spritesheet 21:05:43 <eekee_> and i'm sure i've read richard stallman saying the gpl is not intended to restrict the author's rights 21:06:42 <eekee_> some propaganda might imply it does, but that's just the fsf being overly aggressive 21:06:49 <supermop_home> and use the mechanism of a town newgrf to aggregate such sprites into urban looking groups 21:07:15 <supermop_home> being able to re use town newgrf code would greatly help 21:07:46 <supermop_home> additionally, releasing the resultant grf would be nice 21:07:48 <eekee_> so it's your art, you hold the copyright. you can release it under gpl and under another licence, however you like 21:08:38 <eekee_> there are programs and whole operating systems which you can get under the gpl or a commercial license :) 21:08:47 <supermop_home> but if my goal is to use sprite->newgrf->game->town->screenshot-> print/other artwork 21:09:17 <supermop_home> do I maintain any copywrite control of that final artwork? 21:09:42 <eekee_> ah... screenshots i don't know about :) 21:11:01 <supermop_home> I can write new nml from the specs if I must 21:11:23 <Samu> I'm working on a "FindClosestReachableShipDepot" 21:11:31 <andythenorth> supermop: if you want to control it, don’t use a GPL newgrf 21:11:38 <andythenorth> make a private one 21:11:41 <Samu> i'm failing at the ship pathfinder, there's even 3 pathfinders 21:11:49 <Samu> started with yapf 21:11:54 <eekee_> the worst thing about teh gpl is it scares people like this 21:11:54 <Samu> but i'm stuck 21:11:55 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:12:00 <supermop_home> can I still release that under a more restrictive license? 21:12:35 <supermop_home> eekee_ I am happy with gpl for 90+% of what I do 21:12:44 <eekee_> supermop_home: me too 21:12:49 <peter1138> What was the concensus on 90 degree pathfinding for ships? 21:13:00 <peter1138> Concensus in ottd, hahah 21:13:02 <nekomaster> I'm ok with GPL so long as people are ok with what I do 21:13:04 <supermop_home> and it is reassuring knowing that work I do will not be useless if I get tired of it and abandon it 21:13:48 <eekee_> peter1138: last i saw, it was merged with the 90 degree train turning option 21:14:20 <frosch123> probably it was like that in ttdp, and someone just did the same 21:14:28 <supermop_home> i am not expecting to monetize any newgrf generative artwork, but for purposes of portfolio inclusion I feel it would be easier if it was clear cut 21:15:02 <andythenorth> peter1138: forbidding 90 degree pathfinding breaks the game 21:15:09 <andythenorth> apparently that’s 'fine' 21:15:11 <andythenorth> but eh 21:15:32 <eekee_> who's going to make a fuss if you've got something which might by some stretch be gpl'd in your portfolio? 21:15:43 <frosch123> andythenorth: why does it? 21:15:43 <andythenorth> possibly we could rename the setting :D 21:15:58 <andythenorth> ships get lost on rivers frequently 21:16:41 <andythenorth> probably I am the only player in the world using ships on rivers :) 21:16:49 <eekee_> no, i do too 21:16:56 <frosch123> with 90 degree forbidden ships cannot reverse on two tile rivers, with 90 degree forbidden ships cannot reverse on one tile rivers 21:17:04 *** jinks has quit IRC 21:17:18 <eekee_> i use buoys, but often not as many as i expect to need 21:17:22 <frosch123> so it only makes a difference if you build two tile things instead of one or three tile things 21:17:51 <andythenorth> two-tile wide? 21:17:56 <frosch123> yes 21:18:04 <andythenorth> that might explain it 21:18:16 <andythenorth> only way to build docks on rivers is two widen them to 2 tiles 21:18:25 <eekee_> reverse? my experience is ships reverse anywhere they can't actually turn 21:18:31 *** jinks has joined #openttd 21:18:41 <eekee_> but i usually make dock space 3x3 :) 21:18:43 <andythenorth> and the problem mostly occurs leaving docks and turning the wrong direction 21:19:01 <frosch123> same happens for one tile things 21:19:08 <eekee_> buoys :) 21:19:12 <frosch123> it just means that the ship will reverse 21:19:20 <andythenorth> hmm 21:19:23 <frosch123> as in 180 degree reverse 21:19:26 <andythenorth> tropic doesn’t make rivers? o_O 21:19:30 * andythenorth never noticed that 21:19:35 <frosch123> it does 21:19:42 <frosch123> it even removes desert around them 21:19:48 <andythenorth> the code says that 21:19:54 <frosch123> i have seen it 21:19:58 <andythenorth> oh it made 1 21:20:01 <andythenorth> ok 21:20:01 <frosch123> though ofc mhl may have broken it :p 21:20:03 <andythenorth> I found it 21:20:07 <frosch123> mhl may have broken everything 21:20:12 <andythenorth> 512x512 map, 1 river :P 21:20:47 <andythenorth> it’s probably just too flat to locate any springs? o_O 21:22:07 <andythenorth> do I have some local bug? o_O 21:22:19 <nekomaster> hmm 21:22:22 <frosch123> andythenorth: disable variety distribution 21:22:28 <frosch123> set max height to 16 21:22:34 <nekomaster> I wonder if I should add a school bus or two as a bit of a joke transit option 21:22:45 * andythenorth tries 21:22:53 <eekee_> include a short bus :) 21:23:01 <nekomaster> A long bus a mini-bus 21:23:06 <andythenorth> frosch123: surprising difference eh 21:23:11 <andythenorth> try it on height 32 21:23:15 <nekomaster> 12 and 24 passenger capacity, provides increased incomes 21:23:27 <Samu> i like the idea of forbidden 90 degrees for ships, but only as a separate setting from trains 21:23:42 <eekee_> Samu: yeah, separating them is good 21:24:00 <Samu> sometimes i want 90 degrees for trains but not for ships 21:24:13 <Samu> i made a patch about it, posted in the forum the other day 21:25:25 *** jinks has quit IRC 21:26:24 <Samu> hmm, so i made the pathfinder do a FindPath to I have no idea where... I'm so bad at this 21:26:42 *** Snail has quit IRC 21:26:57 *** eekee_ has quit IRC 21:26:59 <Samu> the result however is that it couldn't find a path 21:27:56 <andythenorth> such bedtime 21:28:02 <andythenorth> bye 21:28:17 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:31:06 *** jinks has joined #openttd 21:32:13 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:34:13 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 21:39:07 *** Gja has joined #openttd 21:46:12 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 21:51:48 <peter1138> Was there ever a daylength patch that didn't screw up the economy? 21:53:48 <Supercheese> doubtful 21:54:03 <Wolf01> I was working on it, lost interest 21:54:17 <Supercheese> although it depends on what's considered a bug and what's considered a feature 21:54:19 <Wolf01> Lost the patch too 21:54:30 <peter1138> Just trying out the one in JGR's pack. 21:56:11 <peter1138> I guess: payment rates will be higher as it takes less days to travel 21:56:41 <peter1138> But also, it takes longer to produce cargo in the first time 21:59:38 <Wolf01> Just see it based on real time: at 1x you produce 100t/month/1-minute, with 4x you produce 400t/month/4-minute -> 100t/minute won't change 22:00:22 <Wolf01> Same happen for cargo payment, running costs... 22:00:26 <Wolf01> All gets scaled 22:01:00 <Wolf01> The only real change is that new vehicles will be introduced 4 times late 22:01:48 <Wolf01> Also vehicle life in real time is 4 times longer 22:02:47 <Wolf01> But for game time is the same, 1x or 4x doesn't matter, ok, you will get rich early (game date) but you have played for the same time (real time) 22:07:09 <peter1138> Not with this patch. 22:07:38 <peter1138> This one basically suspends all but vehicle ticks. 22:07:42 <Wolf01> That's mine wanted-to-be implementation 22:07:54 <nekomaster> Ungh, sometimes I hate trying to research really old vehicles 22:08:02 <peter1138> Hmm 22:08:10 <nekomaster> its like anything before 1920 is wiped off the face of the earth 22:08:39 <Wolf01> Eh, no internet back in those days ;) 22:09:04 <nekomaster> but you can't tell me that no pictures, books, documents, anything on paper didn't exist or survive? 22:09:14 <Wolf01> Maybe noone gave a fuck 22:09:19 <nekomaster> i guess so 22:09:53 <nekomaster> "righty o! lets just toss these schematics and specs into the fire ol chap!" 22:09:53 <nekomaster> -dumb ass bus designer cira 1910 22:11:02 <Wolf01> It was a time where new, better things were developed every odd day, so why keep useless schematics and pictures? 22:11:49 <Wolf01> It's at our day we have nostalgia of those things 22:12:05 <nekomaster> like all I wanted to do was try and find some evidance of any motor buses from 1890 to 1925 22:12:07 <peter1138> Clearly we have too much free time. 22:12:22 <nekomaster> basically what ever came before the Ford Model TT bus in 1917 22:12:25 <nekomaster> in america 22:12:46 <nekomaster> I should mention I'm looking for Motor Buses in America before 1925 22:13:05 <peter1138> Maybe there wasn't any! 22:13:07 <Wolf01> Maybe nothing... they used trams 22:13:17 <nekomaster> but it looks like that it was mostly tram or horse up until stuff like the Model TT Bus came out 22:13:19 <Wolf01> Or horses, or feet 22:13:59 <nekomaster> I guess for my Generic American Road Vehicle Set, I'll just have to make up some fictional ye olde 1900's style bus 22:14:55 <peter1138> Cool swedish bus with skis... 22:15:01 <peter1138> But that's 1920. And not American. 22:15:46 *** bwn has quit IRC 22:15:48 <Wolf01> http://amhistory.si.edu/onthemove/exhibition/exhibition_4_1.html did you read this? 22:16:59 <nekomaster> I have not seen that 22:17:18 <nekomaster> and I know that Trams where a bit thing int he late 1800's across the world including USA and Canada 22:17:34 <nekomaster> Even Toronto had some early street car stuff before electrification 22:17:39 <Wolf01> It seem everyone used trams or own cars, cabs and bicycles 22:17:59 <Wolf01> There is no mention of buses in early 1900 22:18:02 <nekomaster> Yeah, I guess the idea of a Motor Bus/Coach wasn't big with Americans at the time 22:18:20 <nekomaster> I believe there are some early steam and petrol busses in the 1890's or 1900's 22:18:23 <nekomaster> but mostly in europe 22:19:10 <Wolf01> "Buses began replacing trolleys in the 1910s. " 22:19:49 <nekomaster> Hmm, yeah, seems like the first mass produced Motor buses where produced in 1910's, the B-type double decker 22:20:19 <nekomaster> but this is America! hell I didn't start seeing double decker buses in Canada until go transit started buying and running double decker coaches from 2008 onwards 22:20:41 *** bwn has joined #openttd 22:24:01 <nekomaster> hmm 22:25:22 <nekomaster> Perhaps I'll just have horses or steam wagons take up that 1900 spot for early buses 22:30:25 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:41:40 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 22:43:21 <nekomaster> hmm 22:44:19 <nekomaster> or I could just steal the Daimler/Benz Omnibus 22:44:33 <nekomaster> for a 1900's bus, and I'll slap American flags across it! 22:49:19 *** roidal has quit IRC 22:49:27 <nekomaster> So heres a rough list of Bus Generations for my Generic American Road Vehicle Set 22:49:28 <nekomaster> http://pastebin.com/spr3ewyR 22:53:02 <Wolf01> Nice collection of buses... do you plan to add trucks and trams as well? 22:53:09 <nekomaster> Of course 22:53:35 <nekomaster> I'm just getting stuff in order before I start trying to make some crappy sprites that I really don't want to draw because I'd rather be coding then drawing right now 22:53:47 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 22:54:00 <nekomaster> Also I'm using those buses as references for designs, not using the actual buses themselves 22:54:26 <nekomaster> Kinda like how Road Hog's British roster might look like some things you know from the UK 22:54:29 <Wolf01> Use colour filled boxes as placeholders 22:54:58 <nekomaster> I'd rather have a crappily drawn sprite and the dates all set out 22:55:19 <nekomaster> thats another thing too, I'm setting up the generations based on when those buses where built/available 22:55:34 <nekomaster> so not all dates are their build dates, and some are a bit early 22:55:35 <Wolf01> It would be nice to have it compatible with NRT too 22:55:38 *** silentcontrib has quit IRC 22:55:51 <Wolf01> Trolleybuses and steam trams 22:56:05 <nekomaster> I might not do trolly busses 22:56:26 <nekomaster> they're not a huge thing around the world, I mean only a couple cities in North AMerica use them 22:56:28 <nekomaster> like Vancouver 22:56:48 <nekomaster> And most places seem to keep the same trolly buses for a long time 22:58:36 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 23:05:48 *** Gja has quit IRC 23:08:25 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:14:15 *** Snail has joined #openttd 23:14:27 <nekomaster> *sigh* 23:14:37 <nekomaster> now i have to find a bunch of trucks... 23:15:02 <nekomaster> and to make things interesting... perhaps a different truck for each kind of truck for each generation 23:15:16 <nekomaster> So the 1950's trucks will all look different 23:15:23 <Wolf01> Good luck 23:15:24 <nekomaster> variety is the spice of life 23:15:37 <nekomaster> I'll just google things like 1950's tanker trucks 23:16:03 <nekomaster> and see what pops up for companies like Kenworth, Ford, Petterbuilt, etc 23:19:49 <DorpsGek> Commit by peter1138 :: r27829 trunk/src/gfx_func.h (2017-03-26 00:19:41 +0100 ) 23:19:50 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r27821): Occasional crash caused by mixing int/uint arithmetic. 23:26:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 23:28:06 *** bwn has quit IRC 23:32:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 23:33:18 <supermop_home> no good fonts for new resume 23:33:54 <Wolf01> Mi resume "please hire me" in Arial 48, bold 23:33:58 <Wolf01> *my 23:34:14 <Wolf01> I'm really tired this night 23:34:18 <supermop_home> try 72 bold 23:37:57 *** paooolino has joined #openttd 23:38:10 <paooolino> Hello all 23:39:17 <paooolino> anyone successfully compiled openttd using MS VS2017? 23:41:05 <Wolf01> Not yet, I'm scared of upgrading my VS2015 23:43:30 <paooolino> lol 23:44:01 <paooolino> i'll try to see if I can install VS2015 then 23:47:52 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 23:53:22 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 23:53:33 <Wolf01> https://it.slashdot.org/story/17/03/25/022210/stack-overflow-reveals-results-from-largest-developer-survey-ever-conducted nice 23:56:52 <Wolf01> Bed is calling... must resist 23:56:53 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 23:57:19 <Eddi|zuHause> don't forget to switch the time 23:57:39 <Wolf01> Oh, devices do it automagically 23:57:56 <Eddi|zuHause> some do some don't 23:58:27 <Wolf01> Like my alarm clock and car's clock 23:58:49 <Eddi|zuHause> ... or the local church's clock :p 23:58:53 <Wolf01> But I don't use the alarm clock and car clock is already offset to an unknown time 23:59:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and the worst part, on monday i have to be at a meeting earlier than usual 23:59:51 <Wolf01> But I won't be the one in charge to change the time on church's clock... we don't even have a church's clock