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<nekomaster> and while at that resolution I have nice shore lines, if I downsize it I loose the shore lines and end up with two tile high cliff's 21:23:13 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:23:46 <Cubey> You mean if you pick 4096x4096 in game, or if you downscale it in GIMP or whatever? 21:23:49 <Cubey> Or both? 21:24:13 <nekomaster> Yeah, is there some way to downsize in GIMP or some other program and keep the shore lines. I can give you examples of what I mean 21:24:41 <Cubey> I mean, if you think about a heightmap as a 3D surface 21:24:57 <Cubey> Then it makes sense that your coasts become steeper when you shrink the image 21:25:24 <nekomaster> yeah but at 8K I have long coasts which I dont really want either, but at 4K the shores become too steep with no step 21:25:29 <Cubey> Like let's say your map has x, y, and z dimensions, where the brightness of the pixel denotes the z value 21:25:39 <nekomaster> though I could always just turn down the brightness I would like a bit of a shoreline 21:25:43 <Cubey> If you shrink the x and y coordinates by 50%, you also have to shrink the z by 50% 21:26:22 <Cubey> When you generate a game from a heightmap, you have to pick the maximum map height...the default is 16 I think? I'm not sure 21:26:35 <nekomaster> I believe the default is 16 21:26:57 <Cubey> Have you experimented with smoothing the image? For example applying a gaussian blur to the whole thing 21:27:19 <Cubey> If you have weird artifacts on the coasts that you don't like 21:27:32 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 21:27:37 <nekomaster> No, but I was using Lanzcos resizing in irfan view 21:28:17 <Cubey> Lanczos might induce ringing artifacts 21:28:41 <nekomaster> ringing? 21:29:02 <Cubey> Sharper filters like lanczos are best for upscaling, because they make a less blurry image 21:29:12 <nekomaster> ahh 21:29:23 <Cubey> But for downscaling that isn't necessarily the case 21:30:13 <Cubey> When you are upscaling, you wish you had more detail in the image than you actually do, so you use a filter that makes more complex decisions to trick the viewer's eye into thinking the upscaled image is still sharp 21:30:23 <Cubey> When you are downscaling you have more detail than you need, and you need to throw away some 21:30:43 <Cubey> But also heightmaps are different from images and they also get mangled by OpenTTD, because it can only depict one type of slope 21:31:00 <nekomaster> btw I can give you a dropbox link to show the map I have, maybe someone with better skills then I do can figure out how to keep some of hte shore line 21:31:06 <nekomaster> https://www.dropbox.com/s/yrf4x45a7zt38uj/CANADA%208192%20x%208192%20GREEN.png?dl=0 21:31:28 <Cubey> Ok let's take a look at this 21:31:41 <nekomaster> Though if its not possible, then I'll just have the map at 1 tile above sea level 21:33:05 <Cubey> What do you mean by "long" coasts? 21:33:05 <nekomaster> Oh and another problem I've had while trying to resize, is that some rivers end up closing up 21:33:27 <Cubey> Yeah, you are probably going to have to manually clean those up 21:33:34 <Cubey> Because of that slope problem I'm talking about 21:33:44 <nekomaster> yeah 21:34:04 <nekomaster> I wonder if its even worth the trouble to make a shoreline 21:35:48 <Cubey> Hey this looks pretty good 21:36:16 <nekomaster> I tried to add most of the major lakes and rivers and put some in area's where water is sparse 21:36:21 <nekomaster> to keep things interesting 21:37:07 <Cubey> The west coast is really messy (because the heightmap is so noisy around there with all the mountains), so some smoothing might help that 21:37:30 <Cubey> And I think you can fix the coastal flats being one step too high by playing with the levels tool or curves tool a little more 21:38:17 <nekomaster> thing is I already set the levels, the brightness goes up by 5 steps from 0 for each tile 21:38:21 <Cubey> Smoothing and leveling will probably close off some of the rivers, but you can prevent that to some extent by making a layer on top of the image of just the water 21:38:26 <Cubey> And leaving the water alone 21:38:34 <nekomaster> Oh yeah, I totally forgot about htat 21:38:55 <nekomaster> just use the color select tool before I smooth out things and then fill the selection with black for the water 21:39:02 <Cubey> Like once you have the water the way you want it, select all the solid black pixels and paste them into a new layer that you don't change anymore 21:39:04 <Cubey> Yeah exactly 21:39:04 <nekomaster> that way it'll keep all of the water ways open 21:39:21 <Cubey> But some of them may still get closed off when the game generates the map, because of the slopes 21:39:25 <nekomaster> yeah 21:39:35 <Cubey> So you will still have to check it and manually dig them out in the scenario editor 21:39:50 <nekomaster> Thing is though theres so many water ways 21:40:28 <Cubey> Surprisingly they all seem to be OK as it is right now, so keeping the water layer static might just work 21:40:45 <Cubey> I can even see little islands in like the hudson river and st lawrence river that are properly surrounded by water 21:41:15 <nekomaster> yeah, I'm not too too worried about loosing tiny islands 21:42:04 <Cubey> I'm just saying that islands would be a place you'd expect to see the waterways closing up when the map generates 21:42:38 <Cubey> Because the transition from sea-level to ground level might be too steep for the openttd grid 21:42:52 <Cubey> But that seems not to be the case here, so that's a good sign 21:44:31 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 21:44:59 *** Snail has joined #openttd 21:45:28 *** Snail has joined #openttd 21:46:54 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:46:55 <nekomaster> if anything though, I wonder what people prefer, having a bit of a shore line/beach, or just having the lowest ground across the map at 1 tile above the sea 21:47:56 <Cubey> The random map generator and most scenarios I've seen tend to have like, coastal plains at height level 1 21:48:07 <nekomaster> ahh 21:48:15 <nekomaster> maybe I should do that to make things simpler for people 21:48:26 <nekomaster> I did say before I wanted this to be fun, not super realistic 21:48:37 <Cubey> I finally got GIMP open and I can see what you mean about the color steps 21:48:52 <Cubey> Like the darkest shade is 5 steps darker than the second darkest 21:49:18 <nekomaster> yeah 21:49:21 <Cubey> It looks like you only have about 13 or 14 shades in use 21:49:54 <Cubey> So you should generate the map with max height 14 I guess. Or maybe someone knows if that is zero indexed or whatever 21:49:59 <ugu> what projection is that? 21:50:50 <nekomaster> its been stretched 21:50:53 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:51:02 <Cubey> Smoothing will just blend all these distinct shades together, so maybe that will make things worse... I'm gonna mess around with it and see 21:51:20 <nekomaster> alright 21:51:42 <nekomaster> also I would like to make an even smaller version at 2048x2048 while keeping the water ways 21:52:13 <nekomaster> I'd like to make two scenarios, one at 2048x2048 for most peole, and at 4092x4092 for the crazy people that want to try and make a realistic railroad 21:52:19 <Cubey> Putting the waterways in a separate layer will probably help with that 21:57:09 <Cubey> Wait on a closer look I just realized you specifically defined two brightness layers between the plains and the water 21:57:42 <Cubey> Like your 8192x8192 image has coasts two or three pixels wide around the entire landmass 21:57:47 <nekomaster> yeah 21:58:09 <nekomaster> thats what I was talking about but I might scrap that idea 21:58:32 <Cubey> I thought it was like a mystery why that was happening 21:58:51 <nekomaster> For example, I believe each level is 50 meters 21:59:19 <nekomaster> and Toronto, Ontario, is only 76 meters above sea level 21:59:54 <Cubey> Most of the densely populated places on Earth would be at lvl1 in openttd maps 22:00:22 <nekomaster> ahh 22:00:34 <nekomaster> so it probably would be best if I scrapped the beach/shoreline idea then 22:00:50 <nekomaster> its only really useful when trying to recreate maps from games that have that kind of thing 22:03:11 <Cubey> Well I guess it's a creative choice that's up to you 22:03:31 <Cubey> I was just misunderstanding before, I thought you didn't want it and were looking for a way to get rid of it 22:03:42 <nekomaster> Well I might prefer to go down the route of "its my mod for my own thing" 22:03:48 <nekomaster> but I also want to share it with people 22:03:53 <nekomaster> and I want people to have fun with it 22:04:11 <nekomaster> also having a two step/level coast everywhere might make bridges more expensive when crossing rivers 22:04:15 <Cubey> I did try putting the water in a separate layer, downscaling, and then smoothing the land layer 22:04:17 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:04:32 <Cubey> And it came out OK, not too many problems with waterways closing up 22:05:13 <Cubey> A lot of your rivers will still have 2 and 3 high banks because they are cutting through higher ground 22:05:33 <Cubey> I think that's totally Ok though. A lot of rivers in north america do have very high and steep banks! 22:06:30 <nekomaster> yeah 22:07:00 <nekomaster> perhaps you could send me what you got, perhaps through a forum PM if you dont have dropbox or one drive 22:07:08 <nekomaster> or too lazy to put it up somewhere else 22:08:06 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:09:58 <Cubey> Just this https://www.dropbox.com/s/dn2is4xmtck4fwm/CanadaTest.png?dl=0 22:09:59 *** Cubey has quit IRC 22:10:07 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 22:10:27 <Cubey> Hmm I got disconnected, did that link make it through? 22:10:50 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 22:11:35 *** glx has quit IRC 22:11:52 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:11:56 *** glx has joined #openttd 22:12:10 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 22:12:13 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 22:12:24 <Cubey> But anyway you are probably going to want to duplicate those steps yourself starting from your base image, because that png will have your discrete brightness levels messed up 22:12:24 <Cubey> Since it's already blurred and scaled 22:12:24 <Cubey> Those should probably be the very last steps, like if you are going to change the coastal height you'd want to do that first, then scale and blur it after 22:14:21 *** berndj has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** Snail has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** nekomaster has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** supermop has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** cHawk has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** dvim has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** Vadtec has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** techmagus has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** Warrigal_ has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** Extrems has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** Smedles has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** innocenat has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** Sylf has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** Tenu has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** _dp_ has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** gnu_jj has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** ST2 has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** mikegrb has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** dustinm` has quit IRC 22:14:22 *** Belugas has quit IRC 22:14:38 *** Sacro has quit IRC 22:14:50 *** Sacro has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** Snail has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** nekomaster has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** supermop has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** dvim has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** Vadtec has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** techmagus has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** Warrigal_ has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** Extrems has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** innocenat has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** Sylf has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** Tenu has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** Belugas has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** _dp_ has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** mikegrb has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** gnu_jj has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** dustinm` has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** ST2 has joined #openttd 22:15:27 *** weber.oftc.net sets mode: +ov Belugas Belugas 22:16:24 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:16:50 <nekomaster> Ungh, what is with these netsplits 22:17:06 *** berndj has joined #openttd 22:17:12 *** tycoondemon2 has joined #openttd 22:18:08 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 22:18:47 *** tycoondemon has quit IRC 22:18:47 *** TrueBrain has quit IRC 22:18:47 *** orudge has quit IRC 22:18:47 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd 22:19:31 *** berndj is now known as Guest1334 22:20:00 <nekomaster> hmm 22:20:25 <nekomaster> one thing that sucks is that Montreal doesnt get enough space to have Mount Royal 22:33:35 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:49:18 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:51:11 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 22:56:30 *** nekomaster has left #openttd 23:19:26 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 23:34:32 *** Snail has quit IRC 23:38:09 <Wolf01> 'night 23:38:11 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:38:37 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 23:43:22 *** ricus has quit IRC