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Any vehicle set with proper Cargo Classes support should do that by default. The OpenTTD vehicles will not be able to transport all FIRS cargos." should be sufficient, let players figure out what they need... maybe a topic in the forum and some curators is a better idea 10:44:34 <Alberth> I'd support the idea of merging them 10:45:23 <andythenorth> I think it’s the right choice 10:45:35 <andythenorth> also…a smarter bananas could statically analyse vehicles 10:45:44 <andythenorth> to determine which industry sets are supported :P 10:46:05 <Wolf01> Lol 10:46:08 <Alberth> I like the vehicle list tbh, you could keep it, and start with a generic sentence like Wolf suggests, making the list more of an set of examples 10:46:48 <Alberth> the generic rule "none are compatible" is simpler 10:47:14 <Alberth> you could list the counter-examples, which is close to the empty set :) 10:47:41 <Alberth> and bananas doesn't activate multiple grfs in ones game :p 10:48:41 <Alberth> I do miss a few words about economies though, which exist, perhaps what they aim for, or recommendations how to start playing firs, or even how to play an economy 10:49:01 <andythenorth> ok, noted 10:49:14 <andythenorth> in the readme, or can I do that in the docs? 10:49:30 <Alberth> I'd merge everything into the html version 10:49:33 <andythenorth> ‘get started’ doesn’t mention them properly 10:49:36 <andythenorth> it should 10:49:48 <Alberth> especially since you distribute that :) 10:49:49 <andythenorth> I will rebuild the docs 10:50:13 <andythenorth> I don’t distribute the docs any more, bananas refuses them :P 10:50:19 <andythenorth> but they’re on bundles so eh 10:50:23 <Alberth> aw :( 10:50:41 <andythenorth> I guess mostly people have a connection these days 10:51:19 <andythenorth> vehicle compatibiltiy should be a wiki page 10:51:23 <andythenorth> with someone like Kamnet 10:51:24 <Alberth> the readme is either minimal, pointing to docs, or full, as in, generated from html, or from the same source as html 10:51:34 <andythenorth> minimal 10:51:56 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_List 10:53:41 <Alberth> Ha, and then you thought you have everything :p https://wiki.openttd.org/NewGRF_Sets 10:54:00 <andythenorth> yup 10:54:00 <Alberth> could be duplicate-ish though 10:54:24 <andythenorth> also this, w.r.t auto-detecting compatible vehicles https://wiki.openttd.org/Frosch/NewGRF_Configuration_in_Utopia 10:55:21 <Wolf01> WTF, manga faces 10:57:22 <Alberth> you get a face when you open a company window for changing the savegame pre-fix, but that's the only time I ever see a face :) 10:59:28 <Wolf01> Yeah, it should also automatically load your preset instead of manually clicking on the button :| 10:59:50 <Wolf01> That always pissed me off 11:01:52 <andythenorth> do I need the conflict Error Codes from the readme? 11:02:03 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/readme.txt 11:02:51 <Wolf01> The online docs should have everything, leaving them in the readme might help for a fast reference 11:03:42 <andythenorth> I wonder if they’re of any use at all? 11:03:56 <andythenorth> they can go on the code reference page I guess 11:04:10 <Wolf01> Also 11:04:50 <Wolf01> Or you might explain better the error in the game and completely remove them from the readme 11:06:29 *** Gja has joined #openttd 11:06:43 <Alberth> code has a text explaining it afaik 11:07:32 <Alberth> you could move it to a harmless place like some comment in the code if it's not there already 11:07:53 *** zeta has quit IRC 11:07:53 *** Thomas[m]2 has quit IRC 11:07:53 *** Smedles has quit IRC 11:07:53 *** Maarten has quit IRC 11:07:53 *** efess has quit IRC 11:07:53 *** Belugas has quit IRC 11:07:53 *** bwn has quit IRC 11:07:53 *** dustinm` has quit IRC 11:07:53 *** Extrems has quit IRC 11:07:53 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 11:07:53 *** synchris has quit IRC 11:07:53 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 11:07:53 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 11:07:53 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 11:07:53 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 11:07:53 *** Markk has quit IRC 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11:09:04 *** techmagus has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** jinks has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** LordAro has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** Taede has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** Ram-Z has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** Antheus has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** avdg has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** funnel has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** argoneus has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** dvim has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** ccfreak2k has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** Vadtec has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** Sylf has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** mikegrb has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** kais58 has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** UncleCJ has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** KenjiE20 has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** murr4y has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** michi_cc has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** TheIJ has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** guru3_ has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd 11:09:04 *** charon.oftc.net sets mode: +ovov Terkhen michi_cc planetmaker planetmaker 11:09:05 *** Osai has joined #openttd 11:09:05 *** V453000 has joined #openttd 11:09:05 *** Lamp- has joined #openttd 11:09:05 *** XeryusTC has joined #openttd 11:09:05 *** SmatZ has joined #openttd 11:09:05 *** Hazzard has joined #openttd 11:09:05 *** [dpk] has joined #openttd 11:09:05 *** Sacro has joined #openttd 11:09:05 *** TinoDidriksen has joined #openttd 11:09:05 *** goodger has joined #openttd 11:09:05 *** joho has joined #openttd 11:09:05 *** DorpsGek has joined #openttd 11:09:05 *** Rubidium has joined #openttd 11:09:05 *** charon.oftc.net sets mode: +ovov DorpsGek DorpsGek Rubidium Rubidium 11:09:05 *** Prof_Frink has joined #openttd 11:09:05 *** czaks has joined #openttd 11:09:05 *** lastmikoi has joined #openttd 11:09:25 <andythenorth> E00, E01, E02, and E04 have lang strings 11:09:33 <Alberth> (13:07:51) Alberth: unless it has external use, but I'd say it's limited at best 11:09:51 <andythenorth> E03 and W01 do not have lang strings, not sure if / where they are used 11:10:01 <andythenorth> I can’t imagine anyone looking these up in the docs 11:10:12 <Alberth> that sounds likely 11:10:24 <andythenorth> delete? 11:10:28 <Alberth> sure 11:10:51 <Alberth> it's useless technical babble :p 11:11:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge 11:11:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o peter1138 11:11:31 <andythenorth> maybe I should get an account on https://readthedocs.org/ 11:12:00 <Alberth> devzone not working? 11:12:26 <andythenorth> works great :) 11:12:43 <andythenorth> but the world tends to commodity 11:12:53 <andythenorth> someone else has solved docs better than I ever will 11:13:01 <andythenorth> no slideshow though 11:13:06 * andythenorth keeps own docs 11:13:11 <Alberth> no buttons to select things 11:13:30 <Alberth> no resizable flow charts 11:13:50 <Alberth> keep own docs sounds like a good thing :) 11:17:32 <andythenorth> simpler readme http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/readme.txt 11:18:09 <andythenorth> ha the repo version is really very wrong 11:18:14 <andythenorth> docs say r5653 11:18:22 <andythenorth> commit is 5707 11:18:33 * andythenorth wonders why that is 11:19:32 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 11:19:36 <frosch123> hola 11:20:02 <andythenorth> hi FR^2 11:20:07 <andythenorth> autocomplete eh? 11:20:11 <andythenorth> hi frosch123 11:24:11 <andythenorth> Alberth: bin/hg-info - what’s the difference between REPO_REVISION and REPO_VERSION? 11:24:18 <andythenorth> I am reading it, but can’t follow :) 11:26:25 <Alberth> /me looks 11:26:43 <frosch123> 5653 is today when using the days since 2000-01-01 version theme 11:26:59 <frosch123> oh, wait ,it isn'T, it's today, but two years ago? 11:27:19 *** Thomas[m]2 has quit IRC 11:28:41 <Alberth> --num-id --version <-- first is revision (ie a number), second is version description (like firs0.3) 11:29:17 <Alberth> firs doesn't use date, except through devzone afaik 11:30:04 <frosch123> so, just coincidence? 11:30:13 <Alberth> although "version" may include a revision number too 11:31:09 <Alberth> not sure what happened with the number system; I have older firses with higher numbers, so something changed somewhen algo 11:31:21 <Alberth> *ago 11:31:31 * andythenorth testing 11:31:57 <andythenorth> devzone hg has totally different revisions 11:31:59 <andythenorth> that’s odd 11:32:03 <andythenorth> 'odd' 11:32:22 <Alberth> how can that be, you have a clone of that, right? 11:32:30 <andythenorth> my local build of 5707 gives me 5707 in the readme 11:32:54 * andythenorth checks it’s not keyboard-chair error 11:33:03 <andythenorth> nope 11:33:17 <andythenorth> devzone gives 5653 for 5707 http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/readme.txt 11:33:43 *** zeta has quit IRC 11:34:14 <andythenorth> https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/firs/1806/console 11:34:17 *** zeta has joined #openttd 11:35:18 <andythenorth> hash is cd08980bdc8722089dcff849bdb5328d0e32ab94 11:35:27 <andythenorth> from bundles 11:35:27 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 11:35:39 * andythenorth totally confused 11:35:46 <andythenorth> devzone hash is cd08980bdc87 11:36:14 <Alberth> hg log -r 5b5cd4d3e9bc8a9e5866f97870c748388a5cb398 11:36:14 <Alberth> changeset: 5706:5b5cd4d3e9bc 11:37:04 <andythenorth> cd08980bdc8722089dcff849bdb5328d0e32ab94 is 5707 11:37:11 <andythenorth> and jenkins tries to build cd08980bdc8722089dcff849bdb5328d0e32ab94 11:37:24 <andythenorth> the content of the repor is correct 11:37:34 <andythenorth> but the revision number is mangled 11:37:48 <andythenorth> is the revision number not bound to the hash? 11:37:52 <Alberth> no 11:38:12 <Alberth> it's an incremental number local to a repo 11:38:17 <andythenorth> ok so maybe bundles has a special repo 11:38:40 <Alberth> different repos have different incremental numbers, unless you explicitly keep them in sync 11:38:53 <andythenorth> ho 11:38:56 <Alberth> which is what you expect to happen if you pull 11:38:57 <Eddi|zuHause> revision numbers can mismatch if you have branches that were not pushed 11:39:13 <andythenorth> that means using the revision numbers anywhere is a daft strategy 11:39:16 <andythenorth> :) 11:39:21 <andythenorth> should be using hashes 11:39:31 * andythenorth is unsure how to fix this 11:40:00 <Eddi|zuHause> hashes are not incremental 11:40:09 <andythenorth> no 11:40:27 <andythenorth> but there is no valid incremental revision number 11:40:29 <Alberth> this is what the dates since 2K are about, days are incremental 11:40:34 <andythenorth> yes 11:40:45 <andythenorth> but they tend to not be unique 11:40:51 <andythenorth> multiple revisions on same day 11:41:19 <Alberth> wasn't a revision or so added as well? 11:41:29 <andythenorth> not iirc 11:41:45 <Alberth> we did something with BB too in that direction, not sure what exactly 11:41:46 <andythenorth> my objection was that they conflate with the hg revisions, at least for me 11:42:04 <andythenorth> coincidentally FIRS got revisions very close to days since 2K 11:42:10 <andythenorth> which was totally confusing 11:42:40 <Alberth> fair enough :) 11:42:54 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could try hours since 2010 :p 11:43:09 <andythenorth> should I manually set the revision on every commit? 11:43:29 <Alberth> that'd be stupid, imho 11:43:30 <andythenorth> could just update a Makefile property every time I commit 11:43:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds very stupid 11:44:25 <andythenorth> there are any non-stupid ideas? :) 11:44:37 <andythenorth> in projects using git, we just publish the hash 11:44:43 * andythenorth has run across this before 11:44:43 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could make a commit hook, but you'd still have all the nonsense clutter in the repo 11:44:58 <Eddi|zuHause> and it'll clash when someone else pushes to the repo 11:45:14 <Alberth> hash if you don't care about incremental versioning, or date-ish 11:45:34 <andythenorth> I think it’s better to not care 11:45:44 <Alberth> with or without hash to make it unique 11:46:07 <Alberth> and you can go down to minutes or so, which is likely unique enough 11:46:15 <Alberth> seconds if you're paranoid 11:46:39 <Eddi|zuHause> you run out of bits quickly, then 11:46:54 <Alberth> who said anything about bits? 11:47:08 <Alberth> 201706241347 11:47:32 <Alberth> using GMT is better :p 11:47:38 <Eddi|zuHause> that is fine for a string, but i thought we were talking about newgrf versioning 11:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> which is something like 16bit? 11:49:03 <Alberth> hmm, you'd need to do that manually, I think 11:51:08 <Alberth> you don't want a new version every second, so some tool to store and query the newest version? 11:51:27 <Alberth> tag could work 11:52:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't want to tag every revision 11:52:38 <Eddi|zuHause> also, in hg, tags are also revisions 11:54:09 <andythenorth> remarkably hard problem eh :) 11:54:13 <andythenorth> seems simple isn’t 11:54:20 <andythenorth> dvcs with mutable history 11:54:27 <andythenorth> numeric revisions can’t be trusted 11:55:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i still think numeric revisions are fine, as long as the published versions all come from the same repo 11:55:43 <Eddi|zuHause> you just can't compare your local revisions with the public ones 11:56:51 <andythenorth> so it’s a configuration problem, rather than a computational problem? 11:57:23 <andythenorth> we did clock synchronisation in my philosophy degree :P 11:57:26 <andythenorth> as a non-solvable 11:58:18 <andythenorth> so I need to delete some revisions, so I get to same number as bundles? 11:58:35 <andythenorth> @calc 5707 - 5653 11:58:36 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 54 12:00:19 <andythenorth> do ‘hg strip’ on commits 0-53? 12:02:15 <Eddi|zuHause> easier to just delete your local repo and re-clone 12:02:53 <andythenorth> but that wouldn’t work 12:03:06 <andythenorth> I have same revisions as remote 12:03:12 <andythenorth> bundles has some special provision 12:04:03 <andythenorth> and bundles isn’t afaik maintained 12:05:24 <Alberth> bundles must be missing something 12:05:35 <frosch123> date is fine for nightlies 12:06:10 <Eddi|zuHause> but not for hotfix-releases 12:06:31 <frosch123> yeah, not for andy :p 12:06:34 <Alberth> or for referring to a revision 12:07:17 <Alberth> have a sub-number? 12:07:26 <Alberth> N-th release today? 12:07:35 <andythenorth> I think Eddi is right, it’s just a configuration problem 12:07:52 <andythenorth> there is no rationale for bundles being out of sync with devzone 12:08:05 <andythenorth> but I deliberately don’t have ssh access to either 12:08:29 <andythenorth> and afaik, nobody maintains bundles now, since pm + Amml*r went away 12:12:35 <frosch123> oh, bundles and devzone are out of sync? 12:12:46 <frosch123> i guess that's then because of only cloning the default branch? 12:14:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that is pretty much what i said, it's missing some branches 12:15:39 <frosch123> i assumed it was just andy and devzone being out of sync 12:15:54 *** gelignite_ has joined #openttd 12:16:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, he wasn't very clear about that 12:20:05 *** gelignite has quit IRC 12:35:21 *** gelignite_ has quit IRC 12:35:51 *** Alberth has quit IRC 12:36:08 <andythenorth> I conflated devzone and bundles 12:36:13 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 12:38:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i suppose it's difficult to switch hg to count ancestors instead of commits? 12:39:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that would solve the incrementality, but potentially cause larger jumps if you merge branches. and parallel branches may have the same number 12:40:14 <frosch123> andythenorth: i create a new checkout on bundles 12:40:20 <frosch123> they are in sync now 12:40:25 <andythenorth> \o/ 12:40:28 <frosch123> something with the 0.3 branch 12:40:34 <frosch123> which isn't even a head anymore 12:40:41 <andythenorth> thanks 12:41:00 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, ancestors can be counted 12:41:08 <planetmaker> hello everyone :) 12:41:36 <planetmaker> (at least if my memory serves me well, then they can) 12:43:22 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: care to dig that up? 12:43:29 <planetmaker> looking right now 12:46:43 <frosch123> hg log -f --template '{rev}\n' | wc :p 12:47:01 <frosch123> or even "wc -l" 13:09:54 * andythenorth bbl 13:09:56 <andythenorth> cheers 13:09:56 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 13:10:09 <planetmaker> hg log -r0::tip -T"{rev}: {latesttag}-r{changessincelatesttag}\n" is not exactly that 13:10:51 <planetmaker> I think the number of commits in a branch (consecutive commits sind r0) is not easily available. Indeed you'll need wc -l 13:11:18 <planetmaker> what's the actual problem you try to solve, Eddi|zuHause ? 13:11:48 *** TrueBrain-Bot has joined #openttd 13:12:10 <planetmaker> devzone actually mostly builds tip on default branch... with other branches... it probably can get confused 13:12:11 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: andy needs a revision count that is consistent across different repos, and "number of days since 2000" doesn't work 13:12:38 <planetmaker> {latesttag}-r{changessincelatesttag} should be consistent 13:13:05 <planetmaker> maybe not r, but {latesttag}-build{changessincelatesttag} 13:15:21 <planetmaker> but... what means "accross different repos"? "days since 2000" is consistent, not? 13:17:26 <planetmaker> why isn't it consistent? 13:27:11 <frosch123> planetmaker: it's consistent, but andy tends to push more than once per day :p 13:27:27 <frosch123> currently firs uses local revision, which is not consistent 14:00:23 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 14:01:28 *** Gja has quit IRC 14:04:38 *** Gja has joined #openttd 14:23:43 <supermop_home> good morning 14:24:12 <frosch123> o/ 14:26:13 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: "days since 2000" is monotonous, but not strictly monotonous, so when you have build on push, and push twice, you get two different builds with the same number 14:26:42 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and local revision is not good, because you get the same build with two different numbers 14:27:20 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but the tree structure is always the same, even if you remove some branches. so number of ancestors is better than either of these other variants 14:27:52 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 14:27:52 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 14:28:10 <frosch123> hoi 14:28:14 <Alberth> o/ 14:29:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so #ancestors+branch name should be unique enough to cause the least amount of confusion 14:34:54 <Alberth> is that something you can easily convert to a commit hash? 14:35:06 <Alberth> would work in git, I think, but in hg? 14:35:52 <Eddi|zuHause> the commit already has a hash 14:35:57 <Eddi|zuHause> that's not the problem 14:37:21 <Eddi|zuHause> the branch name would be only in the filename/grf name/grf description, but you need the incremental numerical value to decide which one is newer 14:38:28 <Eddi|zuHause> that information is used by openttd to show only the "newest" grf for selection, and to decide whether two builds are "compatible" 14:42:55 <Alberth> ah, right, you never use the number to get a commit. Smart idea 14:45:06 <LordAro> revision counts are basically dead these days 14:45:30 <LordAro> most software i've come across just uses latest.release.number.shorthash 14:45:32 <LordAro> or similar 14:46:40 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: that still requires some central authority to issue the "release.number" 14:47:20 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: but we need something automatic 14:47:27 <LordAro> true 14:47:49 <LordAro> but things generally have stable releases, just use the last one of those? 14:48:16 <LordAro> it's not monotonic though, of course 14:48:24 <Eddi|zuHause> we're still talking about andy here... "stable" doesn't quite fit :p 14:48:28 <LordAro> but :p 14:48:31 <LordAro> s/but // 14:49:14 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: we want something that handles two (or more) consecutive test builds 14:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't matter whether the last release was called 1.2 or 5.23 14:50:56 <LordAro> mm 14:51:04 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 14:51:18 <supermop_home> do I need the developer setting on to get the sprite offset thing? 14:51:22 <LordAro> what's wrong with just taking the latest (timewise) commit? 14:52:01 <LordAro> no need for counting revisions 15:12:01 <frosch123> supermop_home: yes 15:23:50 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: what do you mean? 15:24:18 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: the same commit may have different numbers on different checkouts, that is the problem 15:25:57 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, so yes... hg log -r. -T"{latesttag}-b{changessincelatesttag}\n" probably would give you a unique enough version 15:26:22 <planetmaker> and even tell you what possibly know version it might resemble most closely 15:34:25 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 15:40:37 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: different numbers, sure, but the hash would be the same 15:40:54 <LordAro> rather, why do you need a monotonic counter from the repo? 15:41:01 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: but the hash is useless, because you cannot sort by hash 15:41:09 <LordAro> why do you need to sort? 15:41:33 <LordAro> Alberth: gist related poke :] 15:41:43 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: to see at a glance which one is newer 15:41:59 <LordAro> commits have timestamps attached to them 15:42:12 <Eddi|zuHause> timestamps don't fit in 16 bits 15:42:32 <LordAro> why 16 bits? 15:42:53 <LordAro> i thought this was CI related? 15:43:00 <Eddi|zuHause> because 10 years ago someone thought 16 bit ought to be enough for everyone? 15:43:15 <Eddi|zuHause> what is CI? 15:43:45 <LordAro> continuous integration 15:43:49 <LordAro> but i mean build related 15:44:09 <Eddi|zuHause> this is about OpenTTD's handling of newgrf versions 15:44:16 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:44:55 <Eddi|zuHause> action 14 has a 16-bit version number, and openttd uses this to only display the "newest" version, and whether two versions are "compatible" 15:45:19 <LordAro> right, sure 15:45:47 <Eddi|zuHause> historically, the common NewGRF Makefile used the revision number for that value 15:46:05 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, if it's about the NewGRF version reported to OpenTTD... does one really need several in a single day? :) 15:46:10 <Eddi|zuHause> later, this was replaced by "days since 2000", because revision number was unreliable 15:46:13 <LordAro> so you're wanting to automatically push an experimental(?) grf to bananas on build? 15:46:25 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: apparently, yes. 15:46:53 <planetmaker> outch. Ok. For *that* my suggestion doesn't work either... because you cannot squeeze the tag letters into the 16 bits. 15:47:26 <planetmaker> unless you age-sort the tags, too, and squeeze them in the... dunno... 8 bits? And then you're stucke when you're over 256 tags ;) 15:47:43 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: not necessarily as far as bananas, but if you keep builds around for longer on public space like openttdcoop devzone 15:47:51 <planetmaker> or... ok, 10 tag bits, and 6... for in between. Doesn't work either 15:48:07 <LordAro> hrm 15:48:33 <LordAro> days since 2000 concatenated with number of commits today? 15:48:40 <LordAro> so far today* 15:48:57 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: specifically, Andy has build-on-push enabled, and sometimes does more than one push per day 15:49:48 <Alberth> not publish at bananas, but on devzone, yes 15:51:21 <planetmaker> lord aro's idea: days since 2000 and counting commits per day... that sounds feasible 15:51:29 <planetmaker> hm... 15:51:49 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: well, maybe each tag could get a specific number that is added to the commits-since-last-tag 15:52:00 <LordAro> that said, it's ultimately not any different to counting the number of commits 15:52:09 <frosch123> number of commits in branch sounds more reasonable to me then 15:52:14 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you only have to adjust that table each time you add a tag 15:52:38 <Eddi|zuHause> which could be done by a commit hook 15:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> so, if you store for each tag the number of commits in the chain to the root, then tag-value+commits-since-tag would be the value that i proposed in the first place 15:55:55 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 15:56:17 *** Gja has quit IRC 15:58:52 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 16:08:25 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 16:10:35 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, you can easily assign a value to the tag by sorting them by age. That's unique and doesn't need storage. And the commits since the tag is also unique. But(!) you can then still have two commits which get an identical value: commit a tag. And then have from there branch into two equally long heads 16:11:12 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 16:11:28 <planetmaker> which was actually why I didn't choose this method in the first place, iirc: it doesn't ensure uniqueness - and is in some way less intuitive than days-since-2000 16:11:40 <Eddi|zuHause> now there's two separate problems in there 16:12:01 <Eddi|zuHause> one is, before you commit a tag, and after you commit a tag, these numbers should also be incremental 16:12:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the other one is, if you do two branches 16:13:10 <Eddi|zuHause> how big the branches problem is is really dependent on how much you actually use branches 16:14:01 <Eddi|zuHause> the tag problem is why i suggested storing the number that that tag would have relative to the previous tag 16:14:46 <Eddi|zuHause> say, you make 100 commits, tag that as 1.0, then the next commit should have the number 101 (value of tag 1.0 + 1 commit since tag) 16:15:18 <Eddi|zuHause> something along these lines 16:26:21 <Alberth> allocate a block of grfids as "experimental for everybody", and assign numbers from that block? 16:26:50 <Alberth> add bit "this grf is not compatible with any other grf with the same id ? 16:27:13 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds terrible 16:27:14 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 16:27:26 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:27:26 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:27:38 <Alberth> you want an upgrade path from experimental stuff? 16:27:41 <Eddi|zuHause> how would you test whether your test build is compatible with your previous test build? 16:27:57 <Eddi|zuHause> or with your previous release? 16:28:07 <Alberth> why would it need to be compatible with other test-builds? 16:28:23 <Alberth> previous release, ok, don't use that bit 16:28:29 <Eddi|zuHause> why would you deliberately destroy compatibility? 16:29:02 <Alberth> we seem to be running into problems with the number of allocatable numbers, this is one way to make room 16:29:23 <Alberth> s/number/amount/ 16:29:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that is a solution for any problem that we're trying to solve 16:30:20 <Alberth> if two grfs are not compatible with anything, their order is non-relevant 16:30:50 <Alberth> as long as we can point out which one it is, which you can do in text in the grf 16:30:52 <Eddi|zuHause> this is the "i solve all problem of humanity by killing all humans" solution 16:31:10 <Alberth> no, I leave all releases alone 16:31:30 <Eddi|zuHause> statistically, there aren't all that many releases 16:31:49 *** Gja has joined #openttd 16:31:50 <Eddi|zuHause> every interesting thing happens with non-releases 16:32:10 <Alberth> sure, but you don't need an upgrade path there, imho 16:32:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i disagree 16:33:30 <Alberth> ok, fair enough 16:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes youtube is a bit strange... it suggests me minecraft videos that are 5 seconds long and have 6 views? 16:57:57 <Eddi|zuHause> by a channel that has 4 subscribers 16:58:12 <frosch123> well, as long as you are one of them 16:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause> nope 17:00:03 <Eddi|zuHause> well, maybe if you round the 5 seconds to 6 seconds (youtube is a bit weird with that), and consider that it was uploaded 6 hours ago... that makes it 666? 17:06:16 <Alberth> you have seen too many videos, so it's desperately trying to give you something new :p 17:19:00 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:21:14 <andythenorth> o/ 17:25:29 *** Cubey has quit IRC 17:25:30 *** Vadtec has quit IRC 17:25:30 *** ST2 has quit IRC 17:25:30 *** DDR has quit IRC 17:25:30 *** innocenat has quit IRC 17:25:30 *** _dp_ has quit IRC 17:25:30 *** fiatjaf has quit IRC 17:25:30 *** techmagus has quit IRC 17:25:30 *** cHawk has quit IRC 17:25:30 *** jinks has quit IRC 17:25:30 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 17:25:30 *** Sylf has quit IRC 17:25:30 *** Tharbakim has quit IRC 17:25:30 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 17:25:30 *** mikegrb has quit IRC 17:25:35 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 17:25:35 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 17:25:35 *** DDR has joined #openttd 17:25:35 *** Tharbakim has joined #openttd 17:25:35 *** fiatjaf has joined #openttd 17:25:35 *** innocenat has joined #openttd 17:25:35 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 17:25:35 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 17:25:35 *** _dp_ has joined #openttd 17:25:35 *** ST2 has joined #openttd 17:25:35 *** techmagus has joined #openttd 17:25:35 *** jinks has joined #openttd 17:25:35 *** Vadtec has joined #openttd 17:25:35 *** Sylf has joined #openttd 17:25:35 *** mikegrb has joined #openttd 17:26:05 *** Warrigal has quit IRC 17:26:05 *** quiznilo has quit IRC 17:26:05 *** dvim has quit IRC 17:26:05 *** greeter has quit IRC 17:26:05 *** ccfreak2k has quit IRC 17:26:05 *** supermop has quit IRC 17:26:05 *** Compu has quit IRC 17:26:05 *** Speedy has quit IRC 17:26:05 *** funnel has quit IRC 17:26:05 *** Ttech has quit IRC 17:26:05 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 17:26:11 *** Speedy has joined #openttd 17:26:11 *** Compu has joined #openttd 17:26:11 *** greeter has joined #openttd 17:26:11 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 17:26:11 *** quiznilo has joined #openttd 17:26:11 *** Warrigal has joined #openttd 17:26:11 *** supermop has joined #openttd 17:26:11 *** Ttech has joined #openttd 17:26:11 *** funnel has joined #openttd 17:26:11 *** dvim has joined #openttd 17:26:11 *** ccfreak2k has joined #openttd 17:28:13 <andythenorth> hmm http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/readme.txt 17:28:25 <Alberth> o/ 17:28:28 <andythenorth> hi 17:28:31 * andythenorth reading logs 17:29:15 <Alberth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs wrong url, isn't it? 17:29:55 <Alberth> ie, it's not LATEST very long :p 17:31:36 <andythenorth> tags are quite infrequent :) 17:31:42 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/ 17:31:55 <andythenorth> the logs didn’t seem to conclude anything, unless I missed it? 17:32:44 <Alberth> hmm, also, ../release/.., tricky 17:32:50 <andythenorth> all I can see is ‘this is hard’ 17:32:58 <Alberth> yep 17:33:38 <Alberth> I haven't follow the discussion entirely, but I didn't see any conclusion or agreement 17:33:42 <andythenorth> nah 17:33:56 <andythenorth> might be easiest to leave it ‘as is' 17:34:14 <andythenorth> just means bundles will produce ‘broken’ grfs 17:34:40 <Alberth> depending on how you look at it :p 17:34:55 <Alberth> it uses commit count at default 17:35:11 <Alberth> your repo just uses different numbers 17:35:37 <Alberth> so add a hash somewhere you can find it :) 17:38:05 <andythenorth> the min. compatible version in action 14 will be quite broken :) 17:38:16 <andythenorth> broken savegames 17:38:51 <andythenorth> but does *anyone* ever get it from bundles? 17:39:45 <Alberth> I do :) 17:41:00 <Alberth> but I never upgrade firs in a running game 17:41:27 <andythenorth> I wonder if I could just omit the action 14 check 17:41:36 <andythenorth> as it’s not going to be useful 17:42:05 <Alberth> despite disagreement from Eddi, I still think making experimental grfs incompatible with any other version is fine 17:43:35 <andythenorth> docs suggest that 'version' should be used https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action14#GRF_version_.28.22INFO.22_-.3E_.22VRSN.22.29 17:43:39 <andythenorth> which is a shame 17:45:14 *** smoke_fumus has joined #openttd 17:45:42 <Alberth> that \d is a 16 bit numbers? 17:46:06 <Alberth> why can't it be something bigger, say a full time-stamp 17:49:01 <andythenorth> historical reasons, I assume :) 17:49:14 <andythenorth> also the time stamp is no solution 17:49:22 <andythenorth> because that’s not stable 17:49:43 <andythenorth> I am 99% certain this is non-solvable, at least without serious complication 17:50:23 <andythenorth> oh does hg have the timestamp as well as the hash? 17:50:26 * andythenorth overlooking that 17:50:42 <frosch123> well, for now bundles is in sync again 17:50:53 <andythenorth> unfortunately not :| http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/readme.txt 17:51:10 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository 17:51:39 <frosch123> oh... 17:52:12 <andythenorth> my words too :) 17:52:37 <frosch123> oi, it does a complete checkout every time 17:52:57 <frosch123> so i need to change something in the build script 17:53:58 <andythenorth> are the build scripts version-controlled? 17:54:03 <andythenorth> I can’t find them in devzone 17:54:03 <Alberth> even git has time-stamps :p 17:54:22 <frosch123> andythenorth: some are, but not every project uses the same 17:54:31 <andythenorth> I usually just look that up from the hash Alberth :P 17:54:44 <andythenorth> not usually trying to determine compatibility based on the rev :P 18:01:46 <frosch123> firs config was different from other projects 18:01:48 <frosch123> trying again 18:01:57 <andythenorth> firs always has to be special eh :P 18:02:06 <frosch123> it's old 18:02:17 <frosch123> the "template" is named "eints-test" :p 18:02:42 <frosch123> so, likely only projects newer than eints are somewhat similar 18:02:59 <andythenorth> :) 18:03:55 <frosch123> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/readme.txt <- better? 18:04:23 <planetmaker> the build scripts are version controlled, yes. Either in the firs repo. Or in the devzone repo 18:05:10 <frosch123> planetmaker: the issue here is that jenkins only cloned the branch which were to be compiled 18:05:10 <planetmaker> the devzone has a separate repo... called 'misc' in the hg.o.o instance 18:05:26 <frosch123> i "fixed" that by pulling manuially in ther working dir 18:05:35 <frosch123> but firs was configured to delete the working dir every time 18:05:39 <planetmaker> aye, I think it does that, yes. I think the reason is that cloning everything with zbase was a bad idea 18:06:01 <frosch123> anyway, the build scripts actually do not affect the clone 18:06:14 <planetmaker> or rather slug or whatever v's things were called 18:06:15 <planetmaker> brix 18:06:38 <frosch123> https://jenkins.openttdcoop.org/job/firs/1808/console <- there are two "hg pull" in there 18:06:48 <planetmaker> yes... the portion which is cloned is not controlled by the build scripts 18:06:57 <frosch123> the first one from jenkins, the second one from jenkins_build 18:07:15 <frosch123> the jenkins one has "--rev default" 18:07:24 <frosch123> the second one won't fix local revision numbers 18:07:32 <planetmaker> two... is odd 18:07:53 <planetmaker> probably your guess as to the reasons is right... not sure 18:07:59 <planetmaker> but very likely 18:08:00 <andythenorth> frosch123: accurate now ;) 18:08:24 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's no definite fix 18:08:34 <frosch123> it will break again if someone reinstalls devzone or something 18:08:37 <andythenorth> yes 18:08:43 <frosch123> but likely lasts a few years :p 18:08:50 <planetmaker> what did you do to fix it? 18:08:58 * andythenorth wonders 18:09:10 <andythenorth> script to check hash and rev number against devzone repo? 18:09:22 <andythenorth> devzone is legitimate to consider canonical origin 18:09:32 <andythenorth> fail jenkins if bundles and devzone diverge? 18:09:42 <frosch123> planetmaker: i disabled jenkins deleteing the working dir (which was enabled for firs, but not in the template), and then made a manual clone in the working dir 18:09:53 <planetmaker> ah! 18:10:04 <frosch123> so now it works until someone deletes the working dir again, or until andy makes a branch 18:10:15 <planetmaker> I guess... that was done due to some previous FIRS build issues... 18:10:25 <planetmaker> always doing its special things 18:10:34 <frosch123> the build script contains a purge, so it should be fine 18:10:50 <planetmaker> you would think, yes 18:11:16 <planetmaker> but I've seen that leave traces behind, still 18:12:30 <planetmaker> does it use purge --all -dirs ? 18:14:10 <frosch123> "hg purge --all" unless there is some magic .cache dir in .devzone 18:14:29 <frosch123> please adjust jenkins_build.sh if that is not good enough :) 18:15:29 <frosch123> according to docs "--dirs" would be wrong 18:15:36 <frosch123> since that would *only* delete directories 18:25:27 *** Thomas[m]2 has joined #openttd 18:26:25 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 18:26:40 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 18:27:15 *** Extrems has quit IRC 18:27:36 *** Extrems has joined #openttd 18:36:23 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:38:41 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:53:31 *** dustinm` has quit IRC 18:53:43 *** dustinm` has joined #openttd 18:56:35 *** bwn has quit IRC 18:59:44 *** bwn has joined #openttd 19:06:03 *** Belugas has quit IRC 19:06:09 *** Belugas has joined #openttd 19:06:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Belugas 19:06:11 *** efess has quit IRC 19:06:25 *** efess has joined #openttd 19:08:19 *** Maarten has quit IRC 19:08:35 *** Maarten has joined #openttd 19:11:47 *** Smedles has quit IRC 19:12:49 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 19:24:58 *** Gja has quit IRC 19:33:25 *** quiznilo has quit IRC 19:49:28 *** quiznilo has joined #openttd 19:52:23 *** Alberth has left #openttd 19:54:35 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:31:05 *** smoke_fumus has quit IRC 20:33:13 <andythenorth> blah blah http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html 20:33:23 <andythenorth> I don’t like all this ‘my first newgrf’ crap :P 20:33:36 <andythenorth> Wolf01: ^^ 20:34:15 <andythenorth> I look at that page, and I’m thinking ‘wtf is FIRS' 20:34:17 * Wolf01 reads 20:34:20 <andythenorth> also ‘why 80 industries' 20:34:24 <andythenorth> stupid ammount 20:35:12 <Wolf01> 1. Switch point 1 with the "get started" 20:36:11 <Wolf01> Also... get started... 20:36:18 <andythenorth> “New to newgrfs?” “How did you find FIRS docs then?" 20:36:19 <andythenorth> :P 20:36:26 <Wolf01> Yeah 20:36:31 <andythenorth> it’s only linked via forums, and via in-game content 20:37:09 <Wolf01> I would make the point 7 as FIRS presentation 20:37:17 <andythenorth> agreed 20:37:21 <andythenorth> glad you said that 20:40:21 <andythenorth> ach conflict detection, it’s so boring 20:41:02 <andythenorth> here’s what’s incompatible http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/incompatible_grfs.py#L35 20:54:45 <andythenorth> added them to the html docs http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/code_reference.html#incompatible-grfs 20:55:30 <andythenorth> and found a bug :P 21:02:56 * andythenorth must to bed 21:02:56 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:16:47 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:17:46 *** gelignite has quit IRC 21:28:22 *** circ-user-s74z0 has joined #openttd 21:28:40 *** circ-user-s74z0 has quit IRC 21:52:30 <Wolf01> Shit... I think I failed the lazy bastard objective :( 21:56:49 *** JacobD88 has joined #openttd 22:01:42 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:02:14 *** synchris has quit IRC 22:06:33 *** tokai has joined #openttd 22:06:33 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 22:13:22 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 22:14:17 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 22:35:23 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 22:39:44 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:45:00 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:51:16 <Wolf01> 'night 22:51:21 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 22:54:45 *** cosmobird has quit IRC 23:01:42 *** Gja has joined #openttd 23:38:51 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd