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00:01:20 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 00:10:22 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 00:16:11 <Wolf01> 'night 00:16:14 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 00:29:12 *** NGC3982 has quit IRC 00:29:30 *** NGC3982 has joined #openttd 00:35:32 *** pdoan has quit IRC 00:36:35 *** pdoan has joined #openttd 00:40:01 *** supermop has quit IRC 00:40:55 *** pdoan has quit IRC 00:41:14 *** NGC3982 has quit IRC 00:41:40 *** NGC3982 has joined #openttd 00:41:58 *** pdoan has joined #openttd 00:45:07 *** supermop has joined #openttd 01:36:51 *** luxtram has quit IRC 01:37:31 *** luxtram has joined #openttd 01:43:07 *** orudge` has quit IRC 01:43:34 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 01:43:35 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 02:04:13 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 02:07:45 *** glx has quit IRC 02:45:27 *** pdoan has quit IRC 02:46:29 *** pdoan has joined #openttd 02:55:55 *** pdoan has quit IRC 02:56:54 *** pdoan has joined #openttd 02:58:06 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 03:09:25 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 03:12:13 *** pdoan has quit IRC 03:59:19 *** supermop has quit IRC 04:11:21 *** orudge` has quit IRC 04:11:34 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 04:11:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 04:25:57 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 04:33:37 *** supermop_home_ has joined #openttd 04:34:01 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 04:58:14 *** supermop_home_ has quit IRC 05:03:17 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 05:03:28 *** supermop has joined #openttd 05:03:47 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 05:11:31 *** supermop has quit IRC 05:18:38 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 05:26:40 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 05:33:50 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 05:50:27 *** crem has quit IRC 05:50:46 *** crem has joined #openttd 05:54:34 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 05:55:21 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 06:00:49 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 06:03:39 *** supermop has joined #openttd 06:15:54 *** supermop has quit IRC 06:18:31 *** supermop has joined #openttd 06:21:33 *** Celestar1 has joined #openttd 06:55:55 *** cosmobird has joined #openttd 07:18:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 07:20:32 <andythenorth> o/ 07:32:41 <LordAro> /o 07:33:10 *** supermop has quit IRC 07:33:13 *** supermop has joined #openttd 07:34:37 *** orudge` has quit IRC 07:34:43 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 07:34:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 07:41:33 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 07:47:14 <andythenorth> LordAro: did you have a patch for that? o_O https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6525 07:48:10 <LordAro> not a complete one 07:48:39 <LordAro> although it would just be a case of changing the if statement as sirkoz did 07:49:18 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 07:49:26 *** supermop has quit IRC 07:52:02 *** supermop has joined #openttd 07:53:26 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 07:53:40 <Wolf01> o/ 07:56:36 <andythenorth> lo Wolf01 07:57:06 <andythenorth> what are ‘Cities’ in OpenTTD? 07:57:14 * andythenorth should probably look in wiki eh 07:57:43 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Advanced_Settings/Economy#Proportion_of_towns_that_will_become_cities 07:58:43 <andythenorth> that shouldn’t exist :P 08:00:07 *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd 08:01:09 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4186#comment14608 08:01:52 <Wolf01> So 6601 and 6602 are actually related? We should specify that with the "related tasks" feature instead of comments 08:02:01 <andythenorth> I couldn’t see it 08:02:22 <Wolf01> It's the next tab near comments 08:02:31 <andythenorth> ha 08:02:33 <andythenorth> ye 08:02:37 <andythenorth> ok that’s useful 08:02:45 <andythenorth> looks disabled :P 08:02:48 <andythenorth> we need a new theme 08:03:09 <Wolf01> Yes, FS1.0 has a nicer UI 08:03:18 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 08:04:11 *** supermop has quit IRC 08:09:08 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 08:14:30 <andythenorth> tried another https://bugs.openttd.org/task/4121#comment14609 08:15:14 <Wolf01> andythenorth: did you see last line of yesterday's log? :P 08:19:32 <andythenorth> lego such? 08:19:38 <Wolf01> Yep 08:19:41 <Wolf01> Speed build contest, 4th place because we didn't cheat :P 08:19:49 <andythenorth> no cheating! 08:19:51 * andythenorth bbl 08:19:52 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:31:28 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 08:33:38 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 08:38:06 *** debdog has quit IRC 08:43:25 *** debdog has joined #openttd 08:45:51 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 08:46:34 *** cosmobird_ has joined #openttd 08:48:45 *** supermop has joined #openttd 08:52:38 *** cosmobird has quit IRC 08:53:59 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:03:16 *** debdog has quit IRC 09:03:22 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 09:04:56 *** supermop has quit IRC 09:08:17 *** debdog has joined #openttd 09:09:57 <_dp_> o/ 09:10:14 <_dp_> city proportion setting in somewhat useful actually 09:10:21 <_dp_> unlike many other settings :p 09:11:44 <_dp_> or, tbh I should say that's one of not so many settings that actually varies across our servers :) 09:12:31 <_dp_> coz some stuff like smooth economy obviously doesn't :p 09:13:08 <andythenorth> yeah it’s probably legit 09:13:16 * andythenorth thinks it should be in script layer, but eh 09:14:06 <V453000> hy humenz 09:14:12 <andythenorth> also V453000 09:14:39 <_dp_> imo none of the stuff that configures something that's embedded in game should be in any kind of layer 09:14:52 <_dp_> mb is some advanced config but not netwgrfs, gs, etc 09:14:57 *** mescalito has joined #openttd 09:15:27 <_dp_> basecosts, industry chances, towngen settings, etc., etc., etc. 09:15:47 <_dp_> industry chances for standard industry set ofc 09:15:50 <V453000> andythenorth: ever used the argparser? For some reason my bool parameters work weirdly - if the default is True, then it is always true and if I use parameter it won't change that ... if the default is False, and I use for example - x True, it works correctly. But when I use -x False, it will also make it True, like if the bool is just checking if there's anything in the parameter. Any idea wtf? :D 09:16:04 <V453000> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxsfekghn 09:16:10 <V453000> also I am searching for a name for the script 09:16:12 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 09:16:22 <V453000> RGB DESTROYER or RGB DOZER are candidates 09:17:26 <_dp_> V453000, iirc it's controlled by action='store_true/false' 09:18:26 <andythenorth> V453000: seems I just use sys.argv 09:18:27 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/firs/repository/entry/src/utils.py 09:18:36 <andythenorth> which is a bit limited and flakey IMO 09:18:53 <V453000> right 09:19:05 <V453000> _dp_: need to research something about that, feels like I read something similar earlier 09:19:23 <_dp_> V453000, try action='store_true' instead of type=bool 09:19:28 *** Hiddenfunstuff has joined #openttd 09:19:49 <_dp_> and required ofc makes no sense 09:20:52 <_dp_> V453000, though it works without argument, like if there is -x it's true, if no it's false 09:21:07 <V453000> that's alright :) trying 09:23:06 * _dp_ was fixing some argparse for my work half an hour ago 09:25:58 <V453000> seems to work, thank you :) 09:26:12 <V453000> now I need to figure out if I actually want the "defaults" to be false XD 09:29:29 <andythenorth> _dp_: if ‘city’ wasn’t a flag in game, but controlled by town growth script, that would be…better :D 09:29:37 * andythenorth proposes 09:30:56 <_dp_> andythenorth, no, coz instead of changing it in config to configure server you'll have to write a script 09:31:13 <andythenorth> someone else will do that for you….right? o_O 09:31:21 <andythenorth> "let a thousand flower bloom” 09:31:59 <_dp_> andythenorth, no one usually does :p 09:32:05 <andythenorth> sad times :( 09:32:16 <andythenorth> I am biased 09:32:30 <andythenorth> I live in a world where industry and cargos are totally under my control 09:32:42 <_dp_> andythenorth, but anyway, imo it's a very bad idea to move settings for core logic to scripts 09:32:51 <andythenorth> I was thinking of the logic too 09:33:03 <andythenorth> why does the game need to distinguish town/city? 09:33:10 <_dp_> andythenorth, I would understand if script controlled the whole town placement, then, yes, it should have it's own settings 09:33:11 <andythenorth> why not move growth out of core completely? o_O 09:33:26 <_dp_> andythenorth, but for core game town generator settings should be also in core game 09:33:26 <andythenorth> completely moddable, within limits of API 09:33:36 *** supermop_home_ has joined #openttd 09:33:45 <andythenorth> pragmatically you’re probably right 09:33:47 <_dp_> andythenorth, cities grow twice as fast 09:34:00 <andythenorth> on a JFDI model, yeah, it’s better to have a setting 09:34:36 <_dp_> andythenorth, like cb servers usually only allow players to claim towns and have cities neutral 09:35:06 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 09:35:22 <_dp_> andythenorth, have a nice side-effect that you can easily tell one from other 09:35:43 <_dp_> andythenorth, well, that may be patch actually, don't remember xD 09:40:30 <_dp_> andythenorth, btw if you move everything out of core then default game will be extremely dull 09:40:46 <_dp_> andythenorth, you still need some town geration script enabled by default 09:40:47 <andythenorth> depends what it ships with 09:40:58 <andythenorth> it will also be _really_ easy to mod, or use for patchpacks 09:41:05 <andythenorth> reduced combinatorial shit 09:41:10 <andythenorth> except…when the mods conflict :P 09:41:24 <V453000> I guess the parameter defaults then make no sense for the ones which do the store_true or store_false, right? 09:41:26 <andythenorth> Wolf01: closed another https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6602 09:41:39 *** supermop_home_ has quit IRC 09:41:43 <andythenorth> game has _4_ kinds of Oil Wells industry 09:41:46 <andythenorth> kind of a clue :) 09:41:46 <_dp_> V453000, yep 09:41:56 * andythenorth also tried all the industry grfs in one game before :P 09:42:18 <V453000> cool :> 09:42:32 <V453000> changes applied, tyvm 09:42:35 <V453000> seems to work 09:42:49 <_dp_> yw 09:44:59 <Wolf01> :) 09:45:05 <_dp_> andythenorth, well, if logic ships with game and is configurable from config it makes no difference how is it implemented, in script or in core 09:45:06 *** Celestar1 has quit IRC 09:45:21 <andythenorth> it does to those writing mods :) 09:45:24 <andythenorth> but yes 09:45:30 <andythenorth> potato / potato 09:45:42 <_dp_> andythenorth, it's just that atm there aren't many mods shipped with the game ;) 09:45:56 <andythenorth> no 09:46:02 <andythenorth> well there’s openttd.grf :P 09:46:22 <_dp_> andythenorth, yeah, that's why I didn't say "no mods" :) 09:48:36 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 09:48:48 <_dp_> would be nice to have at least basecost in bundle btw 09:49:33 <_dp_> and manual industries, even though it's technically a custom industry set 09:49:48 <_dp_> newgrf configuration is a mess though 09:50:00 <_dp_> as is GS 09:51:36 *** Celestar has joined #openttd 09:51:57 <_dp_> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ppnnfttvy 09:52:03 <andythenorth> _dp_: for a short time, there were some nice MP goal games played, mostly with me and core devs 09:52:23 <andythenorth> when GS like NCG and Silicon Valley came out 09:52:36 <andythenorth> nice 1 or 2 hour games in an evening 09:52:42 <andythenorth> problem was 09:52:52 <andythenorth> takes 45 mins - 1 hour to configure the fricking game :P 09:53:07 <andythenorth> and 1 wrong setting borks the goal 09:53:45 <_dp_> andythenorth, yep, takes forever to properly configure a server 09:54:29 <_dp_> andythenorth, have same issue with events too, little testing -> big chance something will go wrong 09:55:26 <andythenorth> playing MP goals is probably most fun I’ve had playing OpenTTD 09:55:34 <andythenorth> caused me to see new playing styles too 10:08:26 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 10:11:09 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 10:17:21 <_dp_> "Every extension proposal should be required to be accompanied by a kidney. People would submit only serious proposals, and nobody would submit more than two." 10:17:32 <_dp_> looks like nice solution to fs problem :p 10:18:07 *** supermop has joined #openttd 10:18:08 <_dp_> but then again, it was said by member of c++ standartization committee in early 90s... 10:18:58 <SpComb> that sounds like an appropriate approach for adding new things to C++ 10:31:03 *** orudge` has quit IRC 10:31:44 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 10:31:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 10:32:56 *** supermop has quit IRC 10:35:22 *** supermop has joined #openttd 10:35:26 <Wolf01> https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/abzVyd8_700b.jpg really 10:43:26 *** supermop has quit IRC 10:48:35 *** supermop_home_ has joined #openttd 11:02:50 *** supermop_home_ has quit IRC 11:05:34 *** supermop has joined #openttd 11:05:48 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 11:13:35 *** supermop has quit IRC 11:18:36 *** supermop has joined #openttd 11:33:05 *** supermop has quit IRC 11:36:51 <andythenorth> closed one, with a win https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5334 11:37:57 <Wolf01> Good 11:37:58 *** supermop has joined #openttd 11:39:31 <andythenorth> this needs a review :) https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6053 11:44:49 <Wolf01> Yes 11:45:01 <andythenorth> makes groups suck less 11:46:25 <LordAro> but does it make them great again? 11:55:08 <V453000> that is actually really missing fo the groups 11:55:19 <V453000> to the point where it's even rather hard that it's actually a subgroup I feel 12:08:18 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 12:10:04 <andythenorth> V453000: can haz words? 12:10:05 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 12:10:34 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 12:11:03 <andythenorth> +/-1 to foldable groups? 12:11:47 <V453000> I would definitely say +1 if it's not a giant pain in the ass to code. To me it's what makes the feature of sub-groups explained and complete. Currently it's nice but missing this. 12:11:50 <V453000> my 2c 12:13:38 <andythenorth> yeah, currently is crippled 12:18:32 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 12:21:02 *** supermop has quit IRC 12:22:11 *** gelignite has quit IRC 12:23:47 <_dp_> can we switch to toml for config file? 12:23:59 <Wolf01> I think at least 75% of my development time is to try to fix linker errors 12:27:41 *** __ln___ has quit IRC 12:27:53 *** __ln__ has joined #openttd 12:30:43 *** cosmobird_ has quit IRC 12:35:20 <andythenorth> is toml what mercurial uses? 12:35:25 <andythenorth> looks familiar 12:36:01 <_dp_> andythenorth, dunno, but rust uses it for sure 12:36:16 <_dp_> andythenorth, it's also quite ini-like 12:37:24 <Eddi|zuHause> so can you explain the differences in 3 sentences? 12:38:10 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, can in one 12:38:15 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, it's more expressive 12:38:35 <Wolf01> https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aKD7Qz6_460sv.mp4 we need this 12:38:48 <Wolf01> But as a bus 12:38:53 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, things like GS configuration could be made into a tables instead of those hacky string-map-things 12:39:30 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, also all nested tables could be separated like yapf* or npf* but that no big issue 12:39:53 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: grf config is kind of a mess, currently 12:40:12 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, also it has proper lists instead of again string-like-comma-separated hacks 12:41:13 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, grf config is a huge mess coz it's a list not even map/dictionary/table, idk if there are parameter names in newgrfs but if so they could be easily expressed with toml tables 12:41:27 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, and if not then, again, at least there are proper lists 12:43:59 <Eddi|zuHause> _dp_: main problem with grfs is that they could be identified through filename, grf-id or grf-id+md5 12:44:31 <_dp_> Eddi|zuHause, well, config format makes no difference to that 12:46:15 <Wolf01> I need some help for the correct order of headers, I'm moving the SwitchToMode to another file and no matter if I put some functions declarations it uses in the openttd.h, as extern or what, I always get unresolved external 12:48:27 *** supermop_home_ has joined #openttd 12:48:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: external symbols are never in header files, only references to symbols. there must be one .cpp file which contains the actual symbol 12:49:25 <Wolf01> Yes, they are on openttd.cpp as static functions, but if I move them too I could easily leave all into openttd.cpp because it would mean to move everything 12:50:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: if you're making a new .cpp file, make sure you add it to source.list and regenerate the project files 12:50:11 <Wolf01> Already done it 12:51:07 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 12:51:13 <Eddi|zuHause> did you close and reopen the project? 12:51:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: linker errors are almost definitely unrelated to .h order 12:52:10 <Wolf01> I think is because they are static 12:52:25 <Wolf01> And I fell on the same pit trap 12:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause> uhm, yes, "static" means "don't create a linker symbol" 12:53:53 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want the linker to find it, you must remove static 12:55:19 <__ln__> greetings from the land widely considered a part of germany 12:55:25 <__ln__> bavaria 12:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> fake news! 12:55:59 <Eddi|zuHause> you're widely exaggerating the value of "widely" 12:56:44 <__ln__> widely abroad 12:58:58 <Wolf01> Ok, removing static worked 13:16:19 <Wolf01> Now I need to ponder the best way of doing the GameState object 13:16:45 <Wolf01> Seem that the singleton way + global variable was not well accepted 13:17:19 *** supermop_home_ has quit IRC 13:23:29 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 13:27:50 <supermop_> so trams work 13:28:14 <supermop_> but then i stayed up late last night making a ton of switches for trolley poles and pantographs 13:29:52 <supermop_> sigh 13:30:35 <supermop_> now i want to add more switches to choose between trolley poles and old fashioned pantographs and bow collectors 13:31:35 <Wolf01> http://imgur.com/a/5c5Uw yeah, every day is always better 13:31:52 <Wolf01> supermop_: pics or didn't happen 13:31:58 <supermop_> melbourne went straight from poles to modern pantographs in the 80s 13:32:27 <supermop_> but in eastern europe pictures suggest they had pantographs from the 20s or so 13:33:30 <supermop_> Wolf01: let me put grf onto my work computer 13:33:31 *** orudge` has quit IRC 13:33:44 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 13:33:44 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 13:35:42 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 13:38:49 *** supermop has joined #openttd 13:41:06 <andythenorth> all this OpenTTD admin eh 13:41:12 * andythenorth ducking FIRS 3 sprites 13:41:24 <supermop_> now im tempted to draw more pantos 13:43:45 <Wolf01> Just called my ISP, which for sure will state that it's a problem of mine and I must pay for fix 13:46:52 *** supermop has quit IRC 13:50:05 *** supermop has joined #openttd 13:53:29 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 13:57:11 *** Flygon has quit IRC 13:58:10 *** supermop has quit IRC 14:01:08 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 14:01:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 14:01:24 <Alberth> o/ 14:01:30 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 14:02:51 <supermop_> yo Alberth 14:02:53 <crem> \o 14:03:09 <supermop_> what to call the little heqs style trains? 14:03:36 <supermop_> they aren't exactly a tram 14:04:28 <supermop_> calling them a minimum gauge train suggests that the trams are also like 600mm or 1' 14:04:54 <supermop_> 'industrial train' just sounds like any freight train 14:05:22 <Alberth> to me that's a industry-owned train driving around at its site 14:05:39 <supermop_> yeah thats like part of the industry 14:05:50 <supermop_> not a player built vehicle 14:06:05 <Alberth> small freight train? 14:08:40 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 14:09:19 <Alberth> just give it a nice name of itself, rather than an indication on what kind of train it is 14:11:48 <supermop_> its for the parameter string 14:16:30 <Wolf01> o/ Alberth 14:16:54 <andythenorth> micro trains! 14:17:02 <andythenorth> supermop_: I call them industrial railways 14:17:06 <andythenorth> but that might be a UK thing 14:17:20 <andythenorth> I was going to add them to Road Hog, once we decide if NRT is dead or not 14:22:57 <supermop_> ugh 14:23:16 <supermop_> well i'll keep making things for nrt 14:23:26 <andythenorth> if I implement them I’m going to ignore the gauge 14:23:30 <andythenorth> it’s not relevant 14:23:36 <andythenorth> the main thing is... 14:23:42 <andythenorth> well I’ll post a screenshot actually 14:23:45 <supermop_> they whole sidewalks etc thing is nice to have, not critical for nrt to work 14:25:16 <andythenorth> hmm 14:25:19 <andythenorth> HEQS-RS 14:25:36 <andythenorth> HEQS Renewal Set :P 14:25:39 <andythenorth> hexers 14:25:59 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/8571/HEQS-Renewal-Set.png 14:26:11 <andythenorth> that is kind of the original image for HEQS trams, Dan sent it to me years ago 14:26:15 <andythenorth> was fake then 14:26:39 <andythenorth> the main thing is that they are long mini-micro trains, with all wagons looking same 14:26:46 <andythenorth> so they are like little worms going around 14:27:36 <FLHerne> What we Really Need are proper little tracks that can be built on half a tile each 14:27:43 <FLHerne> Complete with signalling and things 14:27:54 <FLHerne> Well, quarter-tiles 14:28:13 <Wolf01> ISP called back "here all works fine" 14:28:42 <supermop_> FLHerne: well even full size rails are narrower than a two-lane street with sidewalks 14:28:58 <andythenorth> What We Really Need 14:29:02 <andythenorth> FLHerne: zoome out :P 14:29:23 <supermop_> its the old, "make everything but tracks bigger" 14:29:35 <supermop_> which would probably be fine 14:29:44 <supermop_> have to build roads one lane at a time 14:29:54 <andythenorth> I hate all that shit :P 14:30:09 <andythenorth> hate is way too strong a word 14:30:17 <supermop_> anyone look at this: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=56101&start=40 14:30:17 <andythenorth> it strongly disinterests me :P 14:30:48 <supermop_> andythenorth: i wouldn't hate it, its just out of scope 14:31:22 <FLHerne> Scale in OTTD is annoying 14:31:24 <supermop_> 'make a new, different game' not usually in the scope of 'make the first game' 14:31:40 <supermop_> sometimes i guess it is though 14:31:42 <FLHerne> If I let my cities grow to a sensible scale relative to the railways 14:31:44 <andythenorth> a few of juanjo’s patches would need to get to trunk-ready before anything like airports would get looked at https://bugs.openttd.org/index.php?string=&project=1&search_name=&type%5B%5D=&sev%5B%5D=&pri%5B%5D=&due%5B%5D=&reported%5B%5D=&cat%5B%5D=&status%5B%5D=open&percent%5B%5D=&opened=juanjo&dev=&closed=&duedatefrom=&duedateto=&changedfrom=&changedto=&openedfrom=&openedto=&closedfrom=&closedto=&do=index 14:31:45 <supermop_> hence RCT 14:31:56 <FLHerne> So they can have a proper suburban network and things 14:31:56 <andythenorth> also airports is a horribly proven source of drama and fail 14:32:10 <FLHerne> They take up all the map space and everything looks too crowded 14:32:12 <supermop_> andythenorth: not saying it should go in trunk, but it was fun to watch 14:32:26 <supermop_> much like whoever's shunting patch years ago 14:33:10 <supermop_> at scale ORD is probably bigger than a 64x64 map 14:36:56 <andythenorth> Alberth: fancy reviewing a UI patch? o_O 14:37:00 <LordAro> andythenorth: i'm happy to go through juanjo's stuff and work out what needs doing 14:37:18 <andythenorth> he has found some…odd stuff…to fix :) 14:37:32 <andythenorth> seems quite persistent, not always obvious what the motivation is :) 14:37:45 <supermop_> what's remaining dealbreaker on NRT? 14:37:57 <supermop_> should i keep working on this set? 14:38:06 <andythenorth> supermop_: waiting for peter1138 to declare us insane and just commit what’s done? 14:38:16 <andythenorth> we’re stuck with the last 20% 14:38:37 <andythenorth> me and frosch have talked ourselves out onto a ledge about ground types 14:38:49 <andythenorth> $somebody made loads of cobbled roads and stuff 14:38:58 <andythenorth> which are all identical apart from texture 14:39:22 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 14:39:27 <supermop_> i mean myself or andrew350 can make more sprites 14:39:56 <supermop_> i missed the intention behind groundtypes 14:40:08 <supermop_> is it purely for eyecandy? 14:40:35 <supermop_> surely the easiest way would be to just move the sidewalks to the roadtype 14:40:54 <supermop_> as is, road beats tram on a tile, which might not be perfect but works 14:41:03 <andythenorth> it’s predicated on not consuming labels if all your changing is cobble/brick/asphalt/stone/wood 14:41:07 <andythenorth> you’re * 14:41:19 <andythenorth> it’s a waste of labels, could be done differently 14:41:25 <andythenorth> but that means new spec, new UI 14:41:41 <supermop_> i can drive very different speeds on those surfaces 14:41:54 <supermop_> why do they need to be the same label? 14:42:07 <andythenorth> do you actually set different properties for them? 14:42:31 <andythenorth> if so, it might be we’re staring down a dead end with groundtypes 14:42:43 <supermop_> in unspooled dirt is slower that gravel, which is slower than stone, which is slower than asphalt 14:42:57 <andythenorth> hmm 14:43:03 <andythenorth> dunno if frosch and I realised that 14:43:07 <supermop_> dirt is cheapest, followed by gravel, followed by asphalt, followed by stone 14:43:29 <supermop_> infrastructure cost is more or less same order 14:43:31 <Wolf01> andythenorth: just put speed limit in groundtype 14:44:04 <andythenorth> Wolf01: at some point that makes groundtype a roadtype :P 14:44:06 <Wolf01> Or define a switch on roadtype with groundtype 14:44:11 <andythenorth> then we’ve resolved it back to ‘same as now' 14:44:32 <andythenorth> supermop_: what about Docklands? 14:44:34 <Alberth> too overpowered wrt money printing 14:44:36 <supermop_> i mean currently i can lay a 140kmh tram track over a 40 kmh dirt road, and that is weird 14:44:44 <supermop_> but not necessarily wrong 14:44:55 <Alberth> hmm, you spoke much more :) 14:45:24 <supermop_> andythenorth: docklands has all same costs and speeds for the moment 14:45:41 <supermop_> because i hadn't bothered to think of different ones 14:45:58 <andythenorth> I think it was Docklands that spawned groundtypes idea 14:46:16 <supermop_> docklands is an eycandy hack though 14:46:38 <supermop_> i don't know that it has any gameplay meaning 14:47:38 <supermop_> yes it uses too many lables, 14:48:00 <supermop_> maybe there is a way around that, but not sure id base all of NRT around one grf 14:52:18 <supermop_> Alberth: what is overpowered? 14:53:13 <supermop_> anyway NRT lets us have pretty sprites for roads and trams, which i feel is about 80% functional now 14:53:29 *** supermop_home_ has joined #openttd 14:53:47 <supermop_> and gameplay differentiation which i think is about 90% 14:54:37 <supermop_> for pretty sprites, we miss some more control over certain sprites by roadtype, like sidewalks, furniture, and foundations 14:55:19 <supermop_> for gameplay, we miss a more graceful means of upgrading roads, and the means for towns to build more than one type 14:55:45 <Alberth> airports are overpowered, topic 25 minutes ago 14:55:59 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 14:56:14 <Wolf01> supermop_: Both gameplay missing features shouldn't be a problem 14:56:22 <supermop_> correct me if i am wrong, but i feel like you could either ship it without those, or add them in some smaller incremental way without a 'ground type' 14:56:33 <Wolf01> It's just a matter to actually code them 14:56:51 <crem> Are there cablecar patches for openttd? 14:57:02 <Wolf01> Yes, NRT 14:57:22 <supermop_> even if a few means of abuse arise (upgrade a town's roads to fast highway but dont have to pay to maintain it) 14:57:34 <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a ski-lift grf (non-functional object) 14:57:46 <supermop_> which you can already do by building bus stops over town roads 14:57:58 <andythenorth> Conveyor Belts!!! 14:58:03 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 14:58:04 <andythenorth> take a lesson from F :P 14:58:14 <Alberth> clearly we need a skilift for cargo transport in the mountain 14:58:18 <andythenorth> “pipelines are against the spirit of OpentTTD" 14:58:28 <andythenorth> said devs who now all play F :P 14:58:33 <supermop_> belts, gondolas, etc can be added in NRT, but its not ideal 14:58:35 <Wolf01> Lol 14:58:38 <andythenorth> that’s actually FUD but eh :) 14:58:51 <Alberth> all devs play F? :O 14:59:12 <Wolf01> Wait, you don't play it? 14:59:26 <supermop_> Wolf01: can they be added to NRT as is? 14:59:34 <supermop_> rather than reworking NRT? 15:00:28 <Wolf01> If you want something like the existing track-pipelines but without the hassle of having signals, yes, they could be added and maybe work even better 15:00:35 <supermop_> andythenorth: i don't feel the need to have one type for bench, one type for lamps, one type for hot dog stands, on sidewalks 15:00:53 <Wolf01> You can put 2500 vehicle-pump on them and have a continuous flux 15:00:58 <andythenorth> that would be something more akin to objects supermop_ 15:01:10 <supermop_> Wolf01: i meant road conversion, not pipelines 15:01:10 <andythenorth> being able to have random road greeble would be nice, similar to stations 15:01:25 <andythenorth> parked cars and crap like that 15:01:27 <supermop_> andythenorth: you can almost do that already 15:01:46 <supermop_> you can randomly have stuff on the road or catenary already 15:02:03 <Wolf01> Oh, yes, conversion could be reworked, maybe it could benefit from some new grf flags, but it's just a matter to know what could be upgraded to what 15:02:51 <supermop_> if you and one more sprite layer for sidewalks, you just randomly place street furniture 15:03:10 <supermop_> i dont need the control to choose which bench goes on what tile 15:03:17 <andythenorth> PLAYERS WILL THOUGH 15:03:18 <andythenorth> :P 15:03:31 <supermop_> then let them add 10 types 15:03:32 <andythenorth> how else can they make accurate model railways? 15:03:46 <andythenorth> need is a strong word 15:03:51 <andythenorth> meanwhile: https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5887 15:04:18 <supermop_> i guess i am saying that NRT is pretty close to meeting or exceeding goals already 15:05:35 *** supermop_home_ has quit IRC 15:05:58 <supermop_> can it be shipped? 15:06:14 <Wolf01> Not yet, bugged 15:06:25 <supermop_> ship with bugs 15:06:27 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:06:27 <Wolf01> And I seem too stupid to fix it 15:06:34 <supermop_> haha 15:07:30 <Wolf01> Actually I'm working on refactoring, 3 hours of work could have been saved by asking a stupid question in channel 15:07:39 <andythenorth> 441 FS issues left 15:08:05 <andythenorth> Alberth: feel free to tell me to bugger off, but in principle this is useful https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6053 15:08:07 <Wolf01> Good, at 0 we'll release OTTD2? 15:08:13 <andythenorth> pretty much 15:08:23 <andythenorth> probably at about 100 we release OTTD 2 15:09:21 *** supermop has joined #openttd 15:09:35 <Wolf01> New release by only closing tasks, without codechange 15:10:22 <Alberth> lots of text in that issue :) 15:10:44 <Alberth> 5887 is also nice, newgrf author makes a mess, we can clean it up? 15:12:49 <andythenorth> tbh, random building irritates me in CHIPs 15:12:52 <andythenorth> when I want specific 15:12:56 <andythenorth> and sometimes I just want random 15:13:03 <andythenorth> rock | hard place 15:13:41 <andythenorth> the station spec is such a mess that I wouldn’t touch that change 15:13:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: and the changelog will feature all the rejected patches? 15:13:55 <andythenorth> doubt 5887 is a current goal 15:13:55 <Wolf01> Yeah :D 15:14:09 <andythenorth> Rejected: #FS [bad patch] 15:14:19 <andythenorth> shows the work done 15:15:20 <Alberth> I only use station tiles in chips, I don't care much for the random cranes :p 15:15:56 <Alberth> so likely I don't understand this decorative tile business at all 15:18:04 <FLHerne> Alberth: Even with those, it can be annoying if you get the little trucks in 1890 or whatever 15:18:12 <FLHerne> (which happens all the damn time) 15:19:16 <andythenorth> I would refactor chips if station nfo wasn’t so bad 15:19:35 <andythenorth> I would rather have deterministic building with a hotkey or toggle for ‘choose a random one' 15:19:53 <Alberth> from what quast wrote about stations, it didn't seem very complicated, imho 15:21:44 *** supermop has quit IRC 15:22:02 <Alberth> FLHerne: colour of cargo isn't even consistent, trucks are minor compared to that :p 15:23:26 <andythenorth> if I bothered to read station spec, I could probably provide a suggestion :P 15:23:35 <andythenorth> but eh, there are real actual patches in the queue :D 15:23:47 * andythenorth finds making wishlists a lot easier 15:24:20 <Alberth> openttd 2.0 speculation is much simpler indeed :p 15:25:23 <andythenorth> NRT, templated consists, upgraded scenario editor, reworked landscape gen, done 15:25:27 <andythenorth> awesome 2.0 15:25:43 <andythenorth> NoooTTD 15:36:42 <planetmaker> he :) 15:37:08 <planetmaker> If so, the question would be how much backward compatibility one would want :) 15:37:53 <planetmaker> Likely such road is the netscape way, though 15:38:00 <Wolf01> Backward compatible gameplay wise or just able to load and upgrade old saves? 15:38:26 <Wolf01> Because the first one is already borked 15:38:40 <Wolf01> The second one might have some holes 15:38:47 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 15:38:48 <planetmaker> https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-never-do-part-i/ 15:39:06 <planetmaker> Wolf01, it would probably suffice to be able to somewhat continue old games 15:39:27 <planetmaker> but... with the presence of NewGRFs that probably cannot be done either. Thus incompatible 15:39:29 <Wolf01> Then, we are already doing great, with some edge cases 15:39:38 <planetmaker> he? 15:40:04 <Wolf01> I can continue a 2007 game 15:40:15 <Wolf01> Even a 2005 one 15:40:21 <planetmaker> even older 15:40:26 <planetmaker> you can continue TTD games 15:40:31 *** eekee has joined #openttd 15:40:31 <Wolf01> Yes 15:41:19 <Wolf01> The only problem might happen in case of some weird configurations, maybe even trying to load a TTDP game 15:41:37 <andythenorth> no Netscape way 15:41:52 <andythenorth> I have literally sunk a company with “rewrite from scratch” 15:41:58 <andythenorth> nearly went bankrupt 15:42:13 <andythenorth> the correct method is “rebuild the plane whilst flying the plane” 15:42:35 <andythenorth> and I think we’re stuck with backwards compatibility 15:42:41 <eekee> *nod* rewriting is often stupid 15:43:13 <andythenorth> “backwards compatibility” isn’t self defining though 15:43:36 <andythenorth> (picking my pet favourite pony, don’t shoot it) 15:43:46 <andythenorth> if we, e.g. moved signals to NotSignals, with types 15:43:46 <eekee> XD 15:43:55 <andythenorth> we could delete semaphores from default game 15:44:00 <andythenorth> and migrate all saves to colour light 15:44:20 <andythenorth> it’s not broken 15:44:23 <andythenorth> it’s different :P 15:44:54 <eekee> i'm thinking "i'm sure some people would be furious" :) 15:44:58 *** Gja has joined #openttd 15:46:49 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 15:47:03 <andythenorth> migrate semaphores to a different signal label 15:47:12 <eekee> that makes sense 15:47:12 <andythenorth> then it can be restored by a newgrf 15:47:28 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 15:47:30 <andythenorth> actually, in that case probably just keep the semaphores, but let me replace all signals :P 15:47:32 <andythenorth> even better 15:47:34 <andythenorth> no breakage 15:47:37 <eekee> haha! yeah 15:48:18 <eekee> i'm thoroughly enjoying firs, but i'm thinking the ports must be served by invisible giant airships. is there a patch to make them visible? ;) 15:49:55 <andythenorth> you could write one 15:50:03 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 15:50:09 <andythenorth> probably wormholes 15:50:17 <eekee> yeah! XD 15:50:48 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 15:50:49 <eekee> actually can grfs make new disasters? i'm thinking of the submarines which aren't really a disaster. 15:50:58 <Wolf01> andythenorth: make an alien beam dropping stuff on ports at random intervals 15:51:11 <eekee> hahaha 15:51:21 * andythenorth is busy 15:51:27 <andythenorth> removing <br /> from old html 15:51:31 <andythenorth> 212 to go 15:51:35 <eekee> sure no probs, i'm mostly joking 15:53:42 <supermop_> ive spent almost an hour shifting trolley pole around 15:53:48 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 15:55:58 <eekee> oh aye 16:01:48 <supermop_> whats this with signals? 16:01:54 <andythenorth> delete 16:03:34 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 16:07:22 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 16:08:34 *** supermop has joined #openttd 16:09:40 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 16:16:23 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:16:36 *** supermop has quit IRC 16:23:54 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 16:36:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:42:44 <peter1138> what's wrong with <br /> ? 16:42:54 <peter1138> apart from privatisation 16:43:50 *** Gja has quit IRC 16:44:40 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 16:45:01 <LordAro> peter1138: ayy. 16:45:08 * andythenorth shouldn’t be using it for layout 16:45:12 <andythenorth> except in poetry 16:45:45 <andythenorth> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Web/HTML/Element/br 16:46:04 <andythenorth> I’m using it to avoid people whining at me about inline styles for margin 16:46:07 *** Gja has joined #openttd 16:46:21 <andythenorth> just 112 left to replace :P 16:54:07 *** supermop has joined #openttd 16:56:40 <andythenorth> was PBS a mistake? o_O 16:56:51 * andythenorth can’t remember if all the pre-signals crap was actually fun or not 16:57:11 <andythenorth> seemed to involve a lot of thinking, maybe that was good 16:58:03 <Wolf01> I would allow SPAD signals too, just to see some random train crash 17:06:15 *** supermop has quit IRC 17:07:08 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:07:08 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:08:46 *** supermop has joined #openttd 17:09:16 <Wolf01> Would be useful to have specific methods to do this? _switch_mode = (_game_mode == GM_EDITOR) ? SM_LOAD_SCENARIO : SM_LOAD_GAME; 17:10:29 <andythenorth> bbl 17:10:30 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 17:11:52 <Wolf01> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/phg2ttr0k I think not, all the checks seem different 17:12:06 <Wolf01> Or better, the result 17:14:23 <Alberth> looks state-machine-ish 17:15:02 <Alberth> not sure if it becomes any better then, coding state machines in a programming language isn't much readable 17:16:45 *** Progman has quit IRC 17:19:43 <LordAro> srs, who's in control of ottdc.org? they really need to get rid of that startcom cert 17:21:00 *** supermop has quit IRC 17:23:44 *** supermop has joined #openttd 17:31:15 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:32:56 <Wolf01> Quak 17:33:34 <frosch123> moo 17:34:23 <LordAro> o/ 17:35:33 <Wolf01> Mmmh, I'm tempted to rename the GetX/SetX methods to just X() to emulate properties 17:35:35 <peter1138> "Nathanael Rebsch" 17:35:46 *** luxtram has quit IRC 17:35:54 <peter1138> ^ dihedral 17:36:06 <peter1138> ^ LordAro 17:36:09 *** supermop has quit IRC 17:36:50 <LordAro> uwot 17:38:28 *** supermop has joined #openttd 17:40:02 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 17:45:48 *** luxtram has joined #openttd 17:46:29 *** supermop has quit IRC 17:53:29 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 17:53:57 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:00:30 <frosch123> LordAro: spike is admin 18:00:46 <andythenorth> quak 18:00:53 <LordAro> i see 18:00:54 <frosch123> should we go for self-signed certificates? 18:01:06 <LordAro> letsencrypt is fine these days 18:01:09 <frosch123> make the ottd certificate authority? 18:01:13 <LordAro> i think wildcard certs are coming soon as well 18:01:24 * andythenorth uses letsencrypt 18:01:35 <andythenorth> ansible managed 18:01:53 <andythenorth> there are 1 or 2 quirks, but basically sound 18:05:37 * andythenorth stares at bug list, looking for some to invalidate :) 18:08:00 <frosch123> any butterflys or dragonflys? 18:08:31 <andythenorth> is this https://git.openttd.org/?p=trunk.git;a=commit;h=28800476899ce16d6eb718d666ee8db1349d7f7d different to https://bugs.openttd.org/task/599 18:08:31 <andythenorth> ? 18:08:49 <andythenorth> default password vs. actual password? 18:08:54 * andythenorth could look in src :P 18:09:46 <frosch123> andythenorth: the client remembers the password 18:10:01 <frosch123> the server does not store it 18:10:15 <andythenorth> isn’t that….correct by design? o_O 18:10:22 <frosch123> so when people need to restart their server/reload the game, all companies have no password 18:10:27 <andythenorth> ah 18:10:48 <andythenorth> oh dear :) 18:11:06 <andythenorth> so we have to hash all the paswords? o_O 18:11:16 <frosch123> the lame excuse that often appears on the forums is, that savegames are transfered to clients, so they may not contain passwords 18:11:30 <andythenorth> yeah 18:11:31 <frosch123> but the truth is that savegames also do not include the ai/gs data 18:11:42 <andythenorth> because transferring the passwords over the network is also really secure? :P 18:11:46 <frosch123> so there is already differentiation between savegame for save and savegame for join 18:12:08 <andythenorth> still valid then? Can’t just close? 18:12:09 <frosch123> the remaining reason would people who achieve their savegames on some hall of fame site :) 18:12:33 <andythenorth> even hashed, if we start sharing around passwords, pretty easy to go password mining 18:12:37 <andythenorth> if anybody could be bothered 18:13:18 <frosch123> it's the usual: if someone would actually spent some real thought on the problem, it could likely be solved 18:13:46 <andythenorth> not a bug 18:13:57 <andythenorth> I’m not trying to close all feature requests :) 18:14:45 <frosch123> oh my... yt is covered with eclipse livestreams 18:15:11 <frosch123> maybe i should stream a fake one 18:15:44 <andythenorth> :) 18:15:50 <andythenorth> need planetmaker 18:16:16 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 18:17:13 <andythenorth> peter1138: “Or limit ships to just below 80mph?” 18:17:14 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5454#comment11921 18:17:17 <andythenorth> would seem fine to me 18:19:18 *** Gja has quit IRC 18:20:50 <eekee> how am i going to make my ekranoplan grf if ships are limited to just below 80mph? 18:22:12 <eekee> (only joking :) 18:22:55 *** supermop has joined #openttd 18:23:45 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 18:24:40 <andythenorth> ha this can die https://bugs.openttd.org/task/5938 18:25:32 <andythenorth> absolute crap 18:27:02 <peter1138> andythenorth, the patch to make ships faster worked, iirc 18:27:12 <andythenorth> want me to test it? 18:27:13 <peter1138> it was just... pointless :p 18:27:33 <andythenorth> ....yeah... 18:27:43 <andythenorth> means a docs update :P 18:27:46 <andythenorth> also 18:27:49 <peter1138> instant stopping was a problem 18:27:59 <peter1138> that's even worse for ships 18:28:02 <andythenorth> NewInertia 18:28:09 <andythenorth> NotInertia 18:28:11 <peter1138> there's plenty of patches for that, mind you 18:28:12 <andythenorth> InertiaTypes 18:30:49 <andythenorth> this patch appears to work 18:30:50 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6593 18:31:00 *** supermop has quit IRC 18:42:05 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> the lame excuse that often appears on the forums is, that savegames are transfered to clients, so they may not contain passwords <-- that's actually easy to solve, the password data in the savegame needs to be encrypted with a (server-side) password 18:42:54 <Eddi|zuHause> while at it, also hash and salt the passwords :p 18:43:02 <frosch123> that's already done 18:43:25 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, that's "new" :p 18:43:49 <frosch123> and no, password should just not be part of the savegame, but in some separate file like .openttd/secret.dmp 18:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, people who load the savegame without that server password will be able to play it, but the password data is discarded 18:44:41 <andythenorth> I wish george would join irc :P 18:44:47 <andythenorth> I dm-ed him about some of his issues 18:44:53 <frosch123> well, people who played on that game know their password, and then they know the server-side encrypted password 18:44:59 <andythenorth> https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6198 <- this seems like just no 18:45:06 <frosch123> so, they have data on how it is encrypted 18:45:18 <frosch123> so, if you spend work on encryption, do it correctly imho 18:45:42 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: err, if known-plaintext is a problem, you're probably using the wrong encryption method :p 18:47:26 <andythenorth> hmm 18:47:38 <andythenorth> why _aren’t_ vehicles just built in a virtual depot? 18:47:46 <andythenorth> then we could run all the newgrf callbacks 18:47:53 <andythenorth> for the purchase menu 18:48:12 <frosch123> the idea exists for long :p 18:48:17 <andythenorth> oh wait 18:48:21 <andythenorth> it’s totally unnecessary :P 18:48:23 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: anyway, if you still want to separate it, it should be no problem to make a "filename.sav" and "filenname.secret" file 18:48:35 <andythenorth> complexity for no gain 18:48:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: virtual depot is needed for consist stuff 18:49:00 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's actually the solution to all problems with articulated vehicles and refitting 18:49:14 <andythenorth> right 18:49:28 <andythenorth> I’ll leave 6198 open then 18:49:50 <frosch123> but with ottd's "intrusive pools" it's not that easy 18:50:11 <Eddi|zuHause> NoPools 18:50:45 <andythenorth> PoolScript 18:50:52 <Eddi|zuHause> replace pools with actual modern programming concepts like vectors or something 18:52:19 <frosch123> sure, if you update the compile farm 18:53:26 <andythenorth> can I close this if I fix it in FIRS? o_O https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6273 18:54:05 <frosch123> andythenorth: bug in newgrf :) 18:54:25 <frosch123> i doubt ottd will every check for ships being trapped when placing an object 18:55:05 <andythenorth> it’s probably a dubious industry layout 18:57:15 <andythenorth> NFI how I could fix that :) 18:57:37 <andythenorth> oh the Fishing Grounds station report ‘Oil Rig’ for the info tool :) 19:01:28 *** mescalito has quit IRC 19:01:45 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 19:02:42 <andythenorth> closed that 19:07:39 <andythenorth> ha another one 19:08:25 <milek7> >and no, password should just not be part of the savegame, but in some separate file like .openttd/secret.dmp 19:08:30 <milek7> frosch123: why? 19:08:41 *** supermop_home_ has joined #openttd 19:09:15 <milek7> it even doesn't matter if it will be sent to client 19:09:29 <milek7> as long password are salted with server secret salt 19:12:44 *** eekee has quit IRC 19:13:08 <Alberth> why give an option if there is no need? 19:13:48 <andythenorth> Alberth: is this something we should fix in eints? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6543 19:14:21 <Alberth> Also, why does GroupStatistics::UpdateProfits nothing but ClearProfits ? 19:14:39 <frosch123> it's the baseclass of something? 19:15:40 <frosch123> i can't remember 19:16:08 <Alberth> GroupStatistics::ClearProfits 19:16:20 <Alberth> it zeroes the profits at the end of the year 19:16:37 <Alberth> so it's not update at all 19:16:45 *** supermop_home_ has quit IRC 19:17:16 <Alberth> andythenorth: I do something therein eints, you can specify an alternative name for a command in the tables 19:17:30 <Alberth> not sure what happens there exactly 19:18:10 <Alberth> note that 6543 doesn't say he just the translator 19:18:35 <Alberth> *used 19:20:02 <andythenorth> not sure what to do with that next 19:22:09 <frosch123> Alberth: i guess VehicleReachedProfitAge does everything 19:22:40 <frosch123> Alberth: so, update does 1. clear all, 2 readd all vehicles 19:22:48 <Alberth> andythenorth: title says web translator, so just move it to devzone? 19:23:02 <andythenorth> out of sight, out of mind :) 19:23:13 *** supermop has joined #openttd 19:24:25 <andythenorth> oops, eints project tells me all the eints things I haven’t done 19:25:07 <Alberth> frosch123: functionality got shifted, but the name wasn't changed thus 19:25:27 <frosch123> Alberth: no, it's all correct 19:25:52 <frosch123> it has always been like that, and it's correct imo 19:26:05 <frosch123> the comments are weird though 19:27:40 <Alberth> oh, ok, my fault 19:28:19 <frosch123> the comments are misleading :) 19:30:21 *** Progman has joined #openttd 19:31:15 *** supermop has quit IRC 19:37:44 *** Gja has joined #openttd 19:38:32 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 19:39:07 *** luxtram has quit IRC 19:39:37 *** luxtram has joined #openttd 19:43:53 <andythenorth> Bug in External Library? https://bugs.openttd.org/task/6546 19:46:37 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 19:46:48 *** supermop has joined #openttd 19:48:06 <Eddi|zuHause> or compile option? 19:48:39 <Eddi|zuHause> in any case, needs reproductive case 19:48:43 <andythenorth> mine has had that issue for ~years 19:48:56 <andythenorth> I bought a new mac maybe 6 years ago, and ottd got a lot slower 19:48:57 <andythenorth> winning 19:49:15 <andythenorth> yeah, Snow Leopard -> Yosemite probably 19:49:29 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds completely unrelated? 19:50:02 <andythenorth> no, Apple either changed something in Quartz or it was a change in Intel video drivers or hardware 19:50:04 <andythenorth> is my guess 19:50:17 <andythenorth> total guessing mind 19:50:23 <crem> Is there a recommended set of newgrf? For people who never played anything but vanilla openttd. 19:50:32 <andythenorth> avoid anything tagged andythenorth 19:52:48 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 19:58:02 <V453000> XD 19:58:09 <V453000> while V453000 is suited for beginners only 19:59:19 <Alberth> crem: depends heavily on what you like to do 19:59:47 <Alberth> andythenorth: 1st group patch looks ok 19:59:58 <Alberth> too late to actually try it 20:02:07 <andythenorth> worked for me, if that’s worth anything 20:02:43 <Alberth> crem: if you want to stay close to what you know, the OpenGFX+ grfs are nice 20:02:53 <Alberth> have a look at the parameters 20:03:06 <crem> let me check.. 20:03:31 <Alberth> The OpenGfx+Industries does need the OpenGfx+Trains and RVs, or it will not work 20:04:09 <crem> Yes those dependencies are confusing. And it seems there are two versions of each. 20:04:12 <Alberth> using FIRS and selecting a basic economy is quite new but manageable 20:04:37 <Alberth> crem: industry sets add new cargoes that the default set doesn't know 20:04:43 <crem> In addition to OpenGfx+? 20:05:02 <Alberth> any industry newgrf 20:05:50 <Alberth> so you always need vehicle sets if you want to play with a non-default industry grf 20:06:48 <crem> There are three FIRSes.. FIRS 2, FIRS Industry replacement set, and FIRS Industry replacement set 3 20:07:11 <Alberth> yep, andy is a busy firs producer 20:07:39 *** supermop has quit IRC 20:07:39 <Alberth> newest is likely best :) 20:08:11 <andythenorth> FIRS 3 is fricking awesome 20:08:17 <andythenorth> and nearly finished :P 20:08:32 <LordAro> lies 20:08:56 * andythenorth wonders if finishing it is a current goal 20:09:07 <Alberth> if you want something different for trains and RVs but quite traditional, try Iron Horse and Road Hog 20:09:23 <andythenorth> I keep going back to NARS 2 also 20:09:24 <Alberth> if you want to do transport mayhem, use NUTS 20:09:28 * andythenorth loves NARS 2 20:09:57 <andythenorth> when I finally replicate NARS 2 in Iron Horse, I can probably stop doing OpenTTD stuff :) 20:10:08 <crem> wow, at least it started! Milk Production! mooo/ I've never managed to start anything with newgrf before. (didn't know what to pick and picked random stuff). 20:10:08 <Alberth> haha:) 20:10:43 <Alberth> andythenorth: justload both nars2 and IH ? 20:10:51 <andythenorth> well yes 20:10:54 <andythenorth> sometimes I do 20:11:24 <Alberth> nars2 had this changing running costs, doesn't it? 20:11:25 <andythenorth> crem: if it helps…http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/get_started.html 20:11:37 <andythenorth> I think pikka removed those as bad feature maybe 20:11:38 <andythenorth> not sure 20:12:01 <crem> It surely looks good, will read! 20:12:17 <andythenorth> ‘get started’ page is work in progress 20:12:29 <andythenorth> feedback welcome, especially from people who’ve never newgrfed before 20:12:50 <Alberth> crem: for ships, fish2 is freat 20:12:57 <Alberth> *great 20:13:12 <andythenorth> I would also add AV9 for planes 20:13:16 <andythenorth> maybe a bit much all at once 20:13:23 <andythenorth> but helicopters are useful in FIRS 20:13:28 <Alberth> neverplay with aircraft:) 20:13:35 *** supermop has joined #openttd 20:14:16 <Alberth> Although I think I moved that all important steel on one map, by plane 20:14:57 <crem> yeah planes usually make it boring. But actually with trains profit very quickly starts to be unmanageable. As in.. you don't know how to get rid of all that money. 20:15:26 <Alberth> juststop caring about money, and build what you like 20:15:40 <andythenorth> planes are very handy for the supplies mechanic in FIRS 20:16:00 <crem> Ok, will try. I guess I have enough to start with. 20:16:01 <Alberth> although a lot of fun is in keeping the landscape intact 20:17:02 <Alberth> if you tend to flatten all mountains, I would suggest you stop doing that for a few games 20:17:35 <Alberth> other options are to add lots of water (60%) or so, and do shipping between islands 20:18:07 <crem> Yeah, I did that once. Lots of water, huge map, 1 instance of every industry. 20:19:24 <Alberth> I usually play 512x512 or 1024x512, quite big enough for a single player 20:19:58 <crem> I usually (almost) don't change landscape, but I guess initially I select it to be not very hilly. 20:20:28 <Alberth> hilly makes making a route more difficult 20:20:55 <Alberth> especially if you increase the freight multiplier to 5 or so 20:21:28 <Alberth> probably too much for non-NUTS sets :) 20:21:33 <andythenorth> 436 FS left :P 20:21:50 <andythenorth> 10 gone today 20:23:41 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 20:25:17 <V453000> interesting, I did some testing on the python multithreading and basically I'm getting 8 times more speed with 16 times more threads ... that's not too bad :) 20:25:36 <V453000> considering all the horrors I heard how python is bad with multithreading 20:25:44 *** supermop has quit IRC 20:26:25 <_dp_> V453000, are you using threads or processes? 20:27:04 <_dp_> threads are only good for io stuff usually 20:27:53 <andythenorth> subprocess 20:28:10 <V453000> some Pool thing :D 20:29:57 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:31:06 *** FLHerne_ has joined #openttd 20:31:54 *** Gja has quit IRC 20:37:25 *** Gja has joined #openttd 20:43:57 *** Gja has quit IRC 20:49:58 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:53:09 *** supermop has joined #openttd 20:55:10 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 21:01:10 *** supermop has quit IRC 21:07:28 *** supermop has joined #openttd 21:08:47 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 21:15:32 *** supermop has quit IRC 21:21:09 <andythenorth> such bedtime 21:21:09 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:28:04 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:30:19 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:43:10 *** supermop_ has quit IRC 21:52:39 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 21:53:00 *** FLHerne_ has quit IRC 21:56:31 *** supermop has joined #openttd 21:56:45 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 21:57:15 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 21:58:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:04:34 *** supermop has quit IRC 22:05:26 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 22:07:33 *** Hiddenfunstuff has quit IRC 22:08:16 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:08:39 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 22:20:57 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 22:23:40 *** supermop has joined #openttd 22:26:24 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 22:54:04 *** supermop has quit IRC 22:58:10 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 23:02:21 *** supermop has joined #openttd 23:04:24 <Wolf01> 'night 23:04:27 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:10:48 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:16:32 *** supermop has quit IRC 23:23:36 *** supermop_home has joined #openttd 23:37:26 *** supermop_home has quit IRC 23:41:30 *** supermop has joined #openttd