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00:24:26 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:28:47 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 01:03:20 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 01:26:21 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 01:26:52 *** Exec has quit IRC 01:26:54 *** Exec has joined #openttd 01:29:06 *** Flygon has quit IRC 01:57:22 *** glx has quit IRC 02:23:26 *** orudge` has quit IRC 02:23:48 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 02:23:49 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 02:29:33 *** Flygon__ has joined #openttd 02:37:06 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 04:41:13 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 04:45:20 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 04:51:10 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 05:00:34 *** Cubey has quit IRC 05:42:10 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 05:48:23 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 05:48:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 05:48:26 <Alberth> o/ 06:28:35 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:34:11 *** Tharbakim has quit IRC 06:34:42 *** Progman has joined #openttd 06:45:17 <andythenorth> o/ 06:54:10 *** tokai has joined #openttd 06:54:10 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 06:54:51 <andythenorth> hmm 06:56:13 <andythenorth> ‘short buy menu’, ‘multiple generations’, ‘vehicles never expire: on’ 06:56:18 <andythenorth> opposing goals? 07:00:04 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 07:00:30 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 07:00:56 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 07:01:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you should design for vehicles expiring... 07:01:32 <Eddi|zuHause> even if you don't use it 07:02:18 <Eddi|zuHause> also, you can manually hide vehicles 07:02:30 <Alberth> o/ 07:08:18 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 07:23:33 <andythenorth> lo Alberth 07:25:41 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: +1 07:25:53 <andythenorth> can’t remember why I always have vehicle expiry off 07:26:06 <andythenorth> might be an artefact of newgrf development 07:26:16 <andythenorth> or maybe there was a plane in a pikka set I needed 07:26:57 <andythenorth> is a ‘toggleexpiry’ a possible console command? 07:27:02 <andythenorth> it would also run reset engines 07:31:30 <Eddi|zuHause> you can "set <whatever>", and then resetengines 07:31:44 <Eddi|zuHause> also, people might want to set expiry without resetting 07:31:57 <Eddi|zuHause> especially when you set it to on 07:33:01 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. you play from 1950 to 2000, but then you want to keep all the 2000 vehicles around forever, and switch no-expire on 07:33:14 <Eddi|zuHause> if you then ran "resetengines", you would get the 1950 engines back 07:33:20 <andythenorth> possibly I should also stop setting ‘VEHICLE_NEVER_EXPIRES’ for all vehicles :P 07:33:24 <Eddi|zuHause> which you probably don't want 07:48:15 * andythenorth wonders 07:48:22 <andythenorth> if there are ‘short’ and ‘long’ wagons 07:48:41 <andythenorth> is the length relative to date? Or fixed in perpetuity? 07:48:50 <andythenorth> i.e. short is 4/8 -> 6/8 07:48:57 <andythenorth> and long is 6/8 -> 8/8 07:49:18 <andythenorth> or are there short, medium, long? 07:50:00 <Eddi|zuHause> fixed 07:50:17 <Eddi|zuHause> or maybe not 07:50:43 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe freight is always 4/8 and 6/8 and passengers always 6/8 and 8/8 08:06:21 <andythenorth> pax is always 6/8 and 8/8 08:06:25 <andythenorth> seems to work well 08:06:34 <andythenorth> freight at 4/8 and 8/8 works well 08:06:43 <andythenorth> but at some point, long freight wagons are wanted by realism 08:06:46 <andythenorth> also look good 08:10:52 <Eddi|zuHause> well, there's nothing really stopping you from switching up the lengths in a new generation 08:11:55 <andythenorth> it’s mostly a question about buy menu names 08:12:11 <andythenorth> “Box Car” and “Box Car”, but visually one is obviously longer than the other 08:12:21 <andythenorth> or “Long Box Car” and “Short Box Car” 08:12:55 <Eddi|zuHause> leave out the long/short 08:15:13 <andythenorth> redundant eh? 08:17:32 <Alberth> new improved shiny box car :p 08:18:20 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:18:20 <Alberth> if people are too stupid to read the stats, the name won't matter either :) 08:24:42 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 08:28:53 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 08:36:46 *** orudge` has quit IRC 08:37:06 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 08:37:20 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 08:37:20 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 08:49:12 *** gelignite has quit IRC 09:42:20 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 10:00:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 10:10:35 *** orudge` has quit IRC 10:10:36 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 10:10:36 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 10:50:24 <TrueBrain> why are we so inconsistent in Windows stuff .... the project files are x64 or Win32, but openttd-useful is win64 and win32 10:50:37 <TrueBrain> how can I script stuff efficiently if people keep doing this? :D 10:54:43 <__ln__> remove people from the equation 10:56:51 <TrueBrain> Trump is already taking care of that 10:56:56 <TrueBrain> (easy troll is easy :P) 10:59:25 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: that's the Windows way... after all, system32 is 64 bits and syswow64 is 32 bits 10:59:49 <TrueBrain> we did not made it better by also not following one way :) 11:00:10 <Rubidium> sorry about that? 11:00:15 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:00:19 <TrueBrain> YOU SHOULD BE SORRY :P 11:00:20 <TrueBrain> hihi 11:00:22 <TrueBrain> :) 11:00:55 <TrueBrain> hmm .. for some reason cl.exe is out hiding again now 11:01:15 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: SORRY 11:01:33 <TrueBrain> hi andy :) 11:03:03 <TrueBrain> I love how PowerShell sometimes mimics Linux .. but not just 11:03:06 <TrueBrain> you can do rm -rf 11:03:18 <TrueBrain> but the f can be filter or force, so you have to specify which you mean 11:03:30 *** orudge` has quit IRC 11:03:34 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 11:03:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 11:05:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i love how microsoft recently turned into the "extend" phase of .net... like they made this nice new cross-compatible standard, that is missing a lot from the old standard. and then they went "oh we have this shiny new compatibility library that contains all the missing stuff, but it'll be windows-only" 11:05:47 <TrueBrain> lol 11:05:48 <andythenorth> I love trains 11:06:03 <andythenorth> V453000: such trees http://www.railpictures.net/photo/631432/ 11:06:14 <TrueBrain> this andy, always derailing the conversation :P 11:07:58 <TrueBrain> so many bugs in the Docker for Windows mount system .. 11:08:10 <TrueBrain> svnversion works in subdirectories of the mount .. but not in the root of the mount .. 11:08:54 <TrueBrain> so how am I going to tell MSBuild about this shiny include directory I have in store for him ... 11:13:43 <TrueBrain> every answer comes down to: by modifying the project files 11:13:46 <TrueBrain> I mean, come onnnnnn 11:20:22 <TrueBrain> so you can set INCLUDE in the env 11:20:29 <TrueBrain> you have to set useenv=true too 11:20:38 <TrueBrain> but then it can no longer find cl.exe 11:20:51 <TrueBrain> as it is not in the PATH of the ENV .. and all of a sudden it becomes stupid, and doesn't resolve it himself ... 11:20:53 <TrueBrain> uuugggghhhh 11:21:00 <TrueBrain> I hate undocumented unclear shit 11:21:08 <andythenorth> :| 11:21:42 <TrueBrain> it normally overwrites the env .. UseEnv prevents it ... 11:21:47 <TrueBrain> why doesn't it ADD to them?! :( 11:23:14 <TrueBrain> guess it is easier to find the include path of VS, and drop the files in there 11:23:19 <TrueBrain> which is a nasty workaround ... 11:23:24 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: how did you solve that for CF? 11:27:34 <Rubidium> probably a global setting in an antique version of MSVC 11:28:48 <TrueBrain> I cannot believe I am stuck on something this trivial :D 11:29:46 *** sh4 has joined #openttd 11:32:21 <andythenorth> wow, so many wagons I could add https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Western_Railway_wagons#Telegraphic_codes 11:32:37 <andythenorth> 32 types eh 11:32:40 <andythenorth> all the way to FF 11:34:27 *** rufein has joined #openttd 11:43:15 <TrueBrain> I love how everyone keeps telling me I have to open something in the interface .. this is a Docker running a headless windows ... ffs :P 11:53:56 *** Tharbakim has joined #openttd 11:53:58 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: have you tried clicking on "Start"? 11:56:46 * andythenorth has 99 wagons to draw :| 11:57:02 <andythenorth> multiple generations suck :P 12:02:22 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if you're done, can you start with the 1000-ish missing vehicles from CETS? :p 12:03:25 <Alberth> or do something in the 1000 building set :p 12:08:15 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 12:09:31 <TrueBrain> even the develop console doesn't want to work :P Lol 12:09:31 <Wolf01> Moin 12:16:53 <TrueBrain> finally I managed to inject my own include path ... 12:16:54 <TrueBrain> omg 12:21:12 <LordAro> TrueBrain: oh hey, did i screw up my VS version detection? i (obviously) didn't test it myself, but was assured that the version of VS i set would have it 12:21:34 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 12:22:16 <LordAro> and why are both of the projects i work with active today 12:22:20 <TrueBrain> LordAro: it turns out it has it, but not out of the box :) 12:22:25 <LordAro> i've only got so much time! 12:22:33 <TrueBrain> fallthrough is part of the stdc++latest, for what-ever-reason 12:22:33 <LordAro> TrueBrain: ah, of course 12:22:37 <TrueBrain> the default is stdc++14 12:22:41 <TrueBrain> so the project needs to be switched 12:22:47 <TrueBrain> but there are no project files to switch :D 12:22:55 <TrueBrain> not sure if you can detect that tbh, from code 12:22:57 <LordAro> i guess that's technically more correct than gcc/clang 12:23:07 <LordAro> irritating tho 12:23:10 <TrueBrain> specs say it should be part of stdc++11 12:23:14 <TrueBrain> but ... VS2017 is weird 12:23:19 <LordAro> ...oh 12:23:20 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 12:23:23 <LordAro> frosch123: quak 12:23:27 <Alberth> was VS ever sane? 12:23:29 <TrueBrain> down to 6 warnings and 5 errors 12:23:41 <TrueBrain> genworld_gui.cpp does bitshifts VS2017 doesnt agree with (or warn for) 12:23:50 <LordAro> TrueBrain: sure? http://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/language/attributes seems to suggest otherwise 12:23:51 <TrueBrain> and sse4 files are giving errors 12:23:57 <LordAro> but w/e 12:24:27 <TrueBrain> LordAro: owh, lol .. yesterday a page suggested C++11 .. but I might have been blind 12:24:32 <TrueBrain> then it is even more obvious :D 12:24:57 <TrueBrain> so we either need a project file with stdc++latest flipped on, or we need a patch to fix stdc++14 :) 12:25:02 <TrueBrain> (or VS2017) 12:25:04 <TrueBrain> so many options! :D 12:25:17 <TrueBrain> _mm_cvtsi64_si128, identifier not found 12:25:29 <TrueBrain> might have been fixed btw, I had to downgrade a few versions :) 12:25:34 <TrueBrain> but I am getting somewhere! 12:39:58 *** orudge` has quit IRC 12:40:02 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 12:40:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 12:47:02 <TrueBrain> yesssss, it finally compiles automated .. give or take a few errors I still need to resolve :D 12:47:35 <TrueBrain> viewport_sprite_sorter_sse4: negative subscript 12:47:36 <TrueBrain> oh-oh :D 12:58:50 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 13:01:41 <LordAro> TrueBrain: woo 13:01:50 <TrueBrain> the wind is blowing? 13:02:21 *** ChoHag has joined #openttd 13:02:44 <ChoHag> How can I deal with the problem of there being more passengers waiting in a town's stations than there are people living in the town? 13:02:59 <ChoHag> Apart from just shipping them around more efficiently, obviously. 13:07:02 <frosch123> LordAro: which msvc version supports static_assert? 13:09:11 <LordAro> frosch123: without looking, probably 2013ish? 13:09:48 <LordAro> 2010, according to https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh567368.aspx 13:10:10 <frosch123> which _MSC_VER is that? :p 13:11:16 <frosch123> let's guess 1900 13:19:00 <LordAro> 1600 13:19:08 <LordAro> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_C%2B%2B#Internal_version_numbering 13:19:39 <frosch123> what douchebag wrote the sse code? 13:20:08 <frosch123> #undef and #define the same thing differently in various headerfiles, seriously? 13:31:36 <Wolf01> Mmmh, how could I sync data between multiple devices without a server? And I also need to delete that data after all the devices synced, not just after the first one 13:32:38 <Eddi|zuHause> the cloud! 13:32:51 <Wolf01> It's already in the cloud 13:35:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27916 /trunk/src (stdafx.h viewport_sprite_sorter.h) (2017-09-24 15:35:27 +0200 ) 13:35:36 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Enable usage of static_assert for MSVC 13:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> then i don't understand the question 13:37:42 <Wolf01> I can't put the whole database in the cloud because there is a 100kb limit, each device could edit the entries and add new ones 13:38:24 <ChoHag> You know there's no _actual_ difference between "cloud", "device" and "server", right? 13:38:26 <Wolf01> I thought to put the edited/added entries on the clod and the other devices would get them 13:38:53 <Wolf01> ChoHag: please don't give me lessons about IT 13:39:10 <ChoHag> Hey I'm not the one that can't run rsync. 13:40:14 <Wolf01> I'm trying to solve a problem, and I don't need to lose myself into dialectical exercises 13:42:43 <ChoHag> Wow you're clearly too clever for the likes of me. 13:42:45 <ChoHag> Best of luck. 13:43:05 <Wolf01> Fine 13:43:08 <ChoHag> Long words and *everything*... 13:43:15 <Wolf01> Please, stop 13:43:32 <ChoHag> Do you now like being belittled? Then don't be arrogant. 13:43:49 <ChoHag> (See I know fancy smart-sounding words too!) 13:43:54 <Wolf01> I don't want to get picky, and I could be really picky 13:44:32 <ChoHag> The word you're looking for is "pedantic". 13:44:57 <ChoHag> Also "rsync". 13:44:59 <Wolf01> One less to read 13:45:20 <ChoHag> Oh noes! Am I being /ignored? 13:45:27 <ChoHag> However will I cope? 13:46:07 <ChoHag> I *need* people who can't shift bits around on a network to listen to my sarcastic blatherings! 13:46:51 <Wolf01> Eddi, any idea? 13:46:52 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 13:48:06 *** cHawk has quit IRC 13:54:04 *** Flygon__ has quit IRC 14:03:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: so you don't have enough space in the server, and want to keep the updates around as short as possible? 14:03:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: do you know how many clients there are? 14:04:29 <Wolf01> Yes, there's a policy of 100kb per application, I could submit even 10MB of data but it won't be synced until it drops under 100kb, so I need to keep it as small as possible 14:04:47 <Wolf01> No, I don't know how many devices there are 14:05:36 <Wolf01> And the sync happens automatically, I just need to write something in the local storage 14:06:34 <Eddi|zuHause> but it needs to be in the local storage long enough that the other devices notice the update? 14:06:39 <Wolf01> Yes 14:07:07 <Eddi|zuHause> what happens if devices get temporarily disconnected? 14:07:12 <Eddi|zuHause> or new devices appear? 14:07:29 <Wolf01> That's the point, I don't even know if the other devices are connected 14:08:33 <Wolf01> The new devices only get the new elements, but I'm thinking about doing a full sync via file 14:08:44 <supermop_home> bus route A takes 60 days, and B takes 90 14:09:07 <supermop_home> wonder if I should have them each on 15 day interval, separated by 5 14:09:11 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should do something like git versioning? 14:09:14 <supermop_home> or 30 days separated by 15 14:09:24 <Eddi|zuHause> each change gets a hash that builds upon a previous hash 14:10:03 <supermop_home> the 30 days would make it easier to scale to 10 days separated by 5 14:10:03 <Wolf01> A sort of incremental sync? 14:10:13 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 14:10:35 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: how many generations in CETS? :P 14:10:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: design goal was one every 10 years 14:10:58 <supermop_home> also route A is already yellow in cargo flow graph, where as B is dark green 14:11:01 <andythenorth> and how many classes of wagon? 14:11:51 <Wolf01> The problem is to avoid the build up of incremental changes, I already noticed that with about 15 changes I fill up the 100kb 14:12:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: about 3-4 passenger classes and some freight classes 14:13:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: you should keep the last X changes around in 50kb (roll out the newest change by deleting the oldest) 14:13:40 <Wolf01> Maybe I could do a timeout thing, the changes older than "ver - 10" will be automatically deleted, and the devices which find a mismatch with their "ver" ask for a full sync via file instead 14:13:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: and keep the other 50kb available for special requests if a device "missed" some changes 14:14:34 <Wolf01> Yes, I think I'll try this way 14:14:45 <Wolf01> +1 14:16:00 <Eddi|zuHause> so the request would work like: device A notices it is too far behind the latest sync, and puts its current hash there 14:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> device B reads the hash, compiles X updates from this hash towards the "future" and puts them in the remaining 50kb 14:17:09 <Eddi|zuHause> device A reads these special updates, and replaces its "request-hash" with the now newest 14:17:14 <Eddi|zuHause> repeat until up-to-date 14:17:16 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> if device C also notices it's not up-to-date it must wait until this process is finished 14:19:32 * andythenorth has about 20 wagon classes right now 14:19:46 <andythenorth> with FIRS cargos, it’s not implausible to have more 14:21:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the passenger classes are commuter, normal, accelerated and express 14:22:33 <andythenorth> any mail classes? 14:22:34 <andythenorth> o_O 14:22:54 <Eddi|zuHause> they come with mail cars which can also load valuables and express 14:23:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and for other cargos there are box, open, flat, liquid and some specialized (e.g. livestock) 14:23:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i probably forgot some 14:24:26 <Wolf01> I think I understood the logic, but it seem to work better with a SOAP/REST infrastructure, I should try it with the local storage, as I don't want to write many requests back and forth, I can't control what happen inside it and I don't think there's a way to pause it (without exceeding the quota) 14:26:47 *** orudge` has quit IRC 14:26:51 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 14:26:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 14:29:40 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 14:47:12 * andythenorth wonders whether to do one wagon class per FIRS cargo type 14:47:15 <andythenorth> that would be 64 14:49:41 <frosch123> anti nuts :p no refittability by order 14:54:29 <Wolf01> Mmmh, you bake a cake in the oven, but what do you do if the cake is a cold one? Still bake? 14:54:50 <supermop_home> you want the cake to be cold? 14:55:17 <supermop_home> let it cool down after it comes out of the oven 14:55:21 <Wolf01> A cake which goes in the fridge and not in the oven, like a cream cake 14:55:38 <supermop_home> the cake part still gets baked 14:55:54 <supermop_home> then when it cools off, you add the other parts 14:55:58 <Wolf01> Ok, but how do you call the process of making that kind of cake? 14:55:59 <supermop_home> then put it in fridge 14:56:12 <supermop_home> I would still say baking in english 14:56:26 <supermop_home> but pastry chefs may have more specific jargon 14:57:01 <supermop_home> could say 'prepare' 14:57:09 <Wolf01> Mmmh 15:00:27 <Wolf01> Yes, it's the same in italian, I think I just choose the wrong example for my exercise, difficult to find the right words to explain the procedure 15:00:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 15:08:29 <frosch123> how fitting, the only cake of that type i know is called "cold dog" :p 15:10:47 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 15:12:09 *** cHawk has quit IRC 15:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i never understood what dogs have to do with it 15:14:36 <frosch123> i guess they are equally cold and sticky 15:14:54 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the only reason why that is "only" a cold preparation is because you get the cookies pre-baked 15:15:56 <Eddi|zuHause> you can also get pre-baked cake bases, and just fit them with fruits and stuff 15:16:02 <frosch123> hmm, cake without prebaked stuff 15:16:18 <Wolf01> You don't have ice cream cakes in Germany? 15:16:44 <frosch123> there are fried things with ice inside 15:16:51 <frosch123> *fryed? 15:16:51 <Wolf01> Wat 15:16:59 <frosch123> well, not easy to make :p 15:17:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i have seen ice-cakes 15:17:20 <Wolf01> I mean something like the Viennetta 15:17:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but you wouldn't associate that with "baking" 15:18:01 <Wolf01> Eh, neither do I, but you still say "I'm going to bake a cake" 15:18:09 <frosch123> i would never consider vienetta a cake :p 15:18:17 <frosch123> it's just ice with chocolate 15:18:48 <Eddi|zuHause> ice-cakes aren't technically cakes in this sense 15:19:14 <Eddi|zuHause> so you wouldn't call preparing an ice cake "baking" 15:19:19 <Wolf01> We also have a fruit juice / yogurt type of cake where even the biscuit part is not baked, you just put everything in the fridge and wait 15:20:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that's funny because "biscuit" literally means "twice baked" 15:21:53 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, in german you also have sort of a distinction between "Kuchen" (something that is prepared and then baked) and "Torte" (something that is baked and then prepared) 15:24:49 <Eddi|zuHause> like you would make "Erdbeertorte" by baking the base, then putting the strawberries on (and some gelatine stuff). while you make "Apfelkuchen" by preparing the base, putting the apples and some covering on top, and then bake the whole thing 15:25:52 <Eddi|zuHause> (those are two "entry level" cakes you could do without studying the craft for ages :p) 15:26:27 <frosch123> i baked various things, but never those :p 15:31:38 <Wolf01> Ok, to avoid problems I call the methods "TestCakeA" and "TestCakeB" :D 15:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me of Outpost, where the materials were called "Metal1", "Mineral2" or so, instead of real materials 15:36:27 <frosch123> outpost 1 was hilariously unfinished 15:36:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yes 15:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause> was very frustrating when the manual talked about game features that were nowhere to be found 15:37:28 <Wolf01> It's more like the movies scripts where the script authors don't know the weird things and often use "technobabble" or something like it 15:38:06 <Eddi|zuHause> "sir, the tech is overteching" 15:38:49 <Wolf01> Yeah, for example: "A specialised form of technobabble known as treknobabble (and listed in scripts simply as '[TECH]') was devised for the various long-running Star Trek television programs and movies, which relied upon quasi-scientific solutions to dramatic problems" 15:38:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the difference between those and outpost was, that outpost didn't go through the finishing steps 15:39:26 <Wolf01> andythenorth should do a set with "cargo 1, cargo 2, raw material 5" 15:39:36 <Eddi|zuHause> where the real science would be put in 15:53:53 <andythenorth> Wolf01: 'fridge cake’ 15:54:00 <andythenorth> official UK term :P 15:55:02 * andythenorth thinks the 64 wagon classes idea fails 15:55:14 <andythenorth> only so many ways to arrange pixels in a 4/8 length 15:56:43 <Wolf01> :D 16:00:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27917 /trunk/projects (14 files) (2017-09-24 18:00:29 +0200 ) 16:00:36 <DorpsGek> -Add: MSVC 2017 project file generator. Most noticeable, std:c++latest is enabled. 16:02:02 <frosch123> ^^ if anyone can test that :p 16:03:58 <Wolf01> Sure 16:04:37 <frosch123> hmm, oh, so it is actually 141, not 150? 16:04:52 <Wolf01> Yes, 141 -> 2017 16:04:53 <frosch123> why do they have 3 different version numbers ... 16:05:11 <Wolf01> Because now it only changes the sdk 16:06:18 <Wolf01> It's missing the solution anyway 16:09:53 <frosch123> oh, actually not all files are subject to generation 16:12:06 <Wolf01> http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Concrete-and-Steel-Outdoor-End-Table-How-to-Bu/ supermop_home, is that you? 16:19:34 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27918 /trunk/projects (33 files) (2017-09-24 18:19:29 +0200 ) 16:19:35 <DorpsGek> -Fix (r27917): Next attempt for MSVC 2017 16:19:44 <frosch123> now with sln 16:22:43 <Wolf01> Compiles and runs fine 16:22:59 <frosch123> do you have sse4? 16:24:22 <Wolf01> Dunno, maybe, I have a i7 5820k, it should support that set 16:25:09 <frosch123> well, then tb has to figure out what's wrong with the farm 16:28:17 <Wolf01> I was thinking if it would be possible to change the ///< doxygen comments to something else, I know that for doxygen they have a specific meaning, but VS is bitching about invalid xml (because it thinks the < opens a tag there, as /// is used for xml documentation) 16:28:35 <frosch123> /!< or ///< 16:28:39 <frosch123> //!< or ///< 16:28:44 <frosch123> those are the two options 16:29:48 <Wolf01> //!< should work, I'll see "ENUM_VALUE !< description" but always better than "you can't have a space there" 16:30:49 <Wolf01> Maybe I'll make a branch on my github fork for that 16:32:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's pretty much like i expected... there are 5 "winners" and only one "loser" 16:36:23 <frosch123> well, for a start: the difference to last time do not sum up to zero 16:47:16 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 16:51:59 <Wolf01> Mmmh The Dig on steam but the classic version, no hd remake like Grim Fandango :( 16:53:07 <Wolf01> Ok, got to go, BBL 17:09:09 <andythenorth> 5/8 would be a stupid length choice for wagons eh 17:09:38 <frosch123> 6/8+5/8+5/8 :) 17:12:33 *** sh4 has quit IRC 17:12:53 <andythenorth> works nice for 1 tile train yes 17:20:10 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: must be voter fraud :p 17:26:09 <andythenorth> 2 kinds of hopper wagon? 17:26:12 <andythenorth> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-SrK1xLL1W-Y/ToCyLQbJ6-I/AAAAAAAAB-I/c0ZomxxVJa0/s1600/HAA%2Bfin%2Bpic%2B1.jpg 17:26:15 <andythenorth> https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/R6448-LN_3147812_Qty1_1.jpg 17:26:20 <andythenorth> how much variety is too much? 17:27:41 <Eddi|zuHause> none. there should be exactly 1 vehicle in the set that does everything!!! 17:28:27 <andythenorth> not convinced :P 17:29:05 <Eddi|zuHause> what's the difference between the two? (on pixel level) 17:29:12 <andythenorth> a small amount 17:30:17 <Eddi|zuHause> just use them for 2 generations? 17:31:56 <andythenorth> one is coal cargos 17:31:59 <andythenorth> one is quarry cargos 17:32:01 <andythenorth> IRL 17:32:04 * andythenorth knows too much 17:32:24 <Eddi|zuHause> that is not really a difference useful to show in the game 17:34:12 <andythenorth> it might only make sense if I pursue the ‘wagons for specific cargos’ route further 17:34:28 <andythenorth> so ‘stone and sand wagon’ rather than 'hopper' 17:34:37 <andythenorth> ‘coal and coke wagon’ 17:34:43 <andythenorth> not sure it scales well :P 17:35:08 <Eddi|zuHause> it collides with future unknown industry set compatibility 17:35:34 <andythenorth> it’s also clunky to find the names 17:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and autorefit networks 17:35:41 <andythenorth> there is no need for total separation 17:35:58 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27919 /trunk/projects (4 files) (2017-09-24 19:35:51 +0200 ) 17:35:59 <DorpsGek> -Fix: MSVC 2015 and 2017 project files referenced some MSVC 2010 files 17:38:09 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r27920 /trunk/projects (4 files) (2017-09-24 19:38:03 +0200 ) 17:38:10 <DorpsGek> -Fix: MSVC 2015 and 2017 project files referenced some MSVC 2010 files 17:38:16 * andythenorth wonders if Europe has different wagons for coal / aggregates 17:39:16 <andythenorth> ha 8/8 two wagons :P https://www.hornby.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/h/j/hj6145.jpg 17:39:17 <Eddi|zuHause> plenty of different wagons going around europe, surely 17:50:56 <andythenorth> loads 17:53:20 <andythenorth> coal hoppers seem to tend to http://briansolomon.com/trackingthelight/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/RWE_564_in_curve_IMG_0777.jpg 17:53:28 <andythenorth> and other hoppers to https://farm7.static.flickr.com/6081/6103315805_6758dec218_b.jpg 17:53:42 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:53:48 <andythenorth> coal is low density 17:54:09 <andythenorth> dump trucks have same, coal haulers have higher sides than stone haulers (for same chassis arrangement) 17:54:45 <andythenorth> not sure how I’d name them in game though 17:54:47 *** ChoHag has quit IRC 17:56:27 <andythenorth> “Lightweight Hopper Car" 17:56:33 <andythenorth> “Strong Hopper Car” :P 18:29:49 <andythenorth> maybe coal is ubiquitous enough to just have a “Coal Car" 18:29:55 <andythenorth> I already did that for Wood 18:47:59 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 18:48:39 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 19:05:13 *** glx has joined #openttd 19:05:13 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 19:11:17 *** Alberth has left #openttd 19:13:38 <andythenorth> untidy train formation http://www.cavalexmodels.com/Train-formation-66040.html 19:13:49 <andythenorth> probably needed integer length at the station :P 19:21:15 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 19:22:46 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 19:37:18 <Wolf01> So in Germany won the civil world again 20:07:29 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 20:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> if by "win" you mean "on the brink of total collapse", then yes 20:21:34 <Wolf01> Bah, I don't think so, you preferred the extreme right wing? 20:21:43 <Eddi|zuHause> no 20:22:21 *** ChoHag has joined #openttd 20:24:09 <Eddi|zuHause> but if you look at it a little bit deeper, the parlamentary politics over the past 70 years worked like this: there are two opposing large parties, and one of them picked a small party and formed the government with it. but then there appeared more and more small parties, so that neither of the large parties could form a working government. then the two large parties made a common government, which even further accelerated this erosion 20:24:11 <Eddi|zuHause> of the large parties 20:25:19 <Eddi|zuHause> over the past 20-ish years that erosion was quicker on the left, and in the past 5-ish years it took up speed on the right 20:26:16 <Eddi|zuHause> now we're facing (probably) the first 3-party government on the federal level 20:26:35 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:26:37 <Eddi|zuHause> or 3.5, if you count the bavarian anomaly called "CSU" 20:26:55 <Wolf01> Here is even worse, we can continue as we are, give the country to the right wing or to the party which doesn't even know how politics work and hurt themselves in confusion (like pokemon), also we have a lot of little parties which are there only to make confusion... and the left wing is no more 20:27:01 <Eddi|zuHause> some of those parties with deep ideological differences 20:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: just a figure to underline this erosion: the two parties that formed the government got 80% of the votes in 2013, and now they got 55% 20:36:29 <Eddi|zuHause> (roughly) 20:38:49 <Wolf01> I don't think we saw numbers over 45% on the last 20 years 20:56:39 <supermop_> what the hell kind of resolution is 1670 px wide 21:01:14 <FLHerne> 1680x1050 is a thing 21:01:47 <FLHerne> Maybe lose 5px on each side for underscanning or bezels or window borders or [...] 21:02:00 <FLHerne> (did I miss some context?) 21:14:55 <supermop_> project photos we got from a photograPHER 21:37:12 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 21:37:54 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: well, 2013 had an exceptional number of "others" (<5%), so with 70% of the votes you got 80% of the seats (-ish) 21:59:33 *** ChoHag has quit IRC 22:03:40 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 22:03:53 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 22:04:53 *** ChoHag has joined #openttd 22:06:19 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:28:53 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 22:30:42 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:18:07 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:22:23 *** FLHerne has quit IRC