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00:08:36 *** Samu has quit IRC 00:18:06 *** Guest7607 is now known as Prof_Frink 00:18:42 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7608 00:30:17 <supermop_home> Eddi|zuHause: go up a tall mountain and shoot a rocket? 00:45:00 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 01:03:53 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 01:08:25 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:09:55 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_home: thing is, any rocket i come up with is way too high by the time it reaches that speed 01:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause> so, i need a supersonic plane 01:10:42 <supermop_home> that's why you need to find a 13km tall mountain and shoot it horizontally 01:11:13 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, if you find me one of those... :p 01:13:04 <supermop_home> so I have a three track terminus with some double headed electric expresses that leave every 48 days, and two other branches to serve 01:13:43 <supermop_home> not sure if I want one of them going twice as frequently as the express 01:18:14 *** glx has quit IRC 01:19:01 <supermop_home> https://imgur.com/a/UGxL1 01:19:07 *** Guest7608 is now known as Prof_Frink 01:19:42 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7610 01:19:54 <supermop_home> celadon color line doesn't run at all yet, trying to figure out how orange will relate to the blue express to create a slot for the new line 01:26:37 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf is a celadon color? 01:26:53 <supermop_home> color of celadon? 01:27:19 <supermop_home> although I guess that shade is bit too vibrant 01:27:52 <supermop_home> 'light cyan-ish green'? 01:28:06 <Eddi|zuHause> +5 most helpful answer. 01:28:26 <supermop_home> ha 01:29:07 <supermop_home> idk I thought 'celadon' would be more common across languages than some marketing bullshit like 'seafoam' 01:32:20 <supermop_home> based on sounds from other room suddenly everyone in the cowboy show my wife is watching now has SMGs 01:32:47 *** Montana has quit IRC 01:37:25 *** Lejving has quit IRC 01:38:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Sarah Michell Gellars? 02:00:38 <supermop_home> turns out it was P90s 02:01:26 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 02:15:05 *** sillen has joined #openttd 02:15:20 <sillen> Hi 02:16:01 *** sillen has quit IRC 02:20:07 *** Guest7610 is now known as Prof_Frink 02:20:42 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7612 02:45:28 *** Biolunar_ has joined #openttd 02:52:26 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 03:13:18 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 03:21:07 *** Guest7612 is now known as Prof_Frink 03:21:42 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7618 03:34:59 *** Coobies has joined #openttd 03:38:58 *** Cubey has quit IRC 03:44:51 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 03:51:47 *** Biolunar_ has quit IRC 03:57:52 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 04:09:49 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 04:10:30 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 04:10:33 *** cHawk has quit IRC 04:22:08 *** Guest7618 is now known as Prof_Frink 04:22:42 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7621 04:30:01 *** finna has quit IRC 04:47:37 *** murr4y has quit IRC 05:23:08 *** Guest7621 is now known as Prof_Frink 05:23:43 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7624 05:31:59 *** Coobies has quit IRC 05:32:24 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 06:03:21 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 06:03:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 06:17:39 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:18:00 <andythenorth> o/ 06:19:03 <Alberth> o/ 06:24:08 *** Guest7624 is now known as Prof_Frink 06:24:42 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7628 06:29:18 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 06:42:10 <andythenorth> I need fewer ports 06:52:30 <Alberth> that would need connecting chains 06:52:53 <Alberth> how does extreme do that, it has a zillion ports? 06:54:37 <Alberth> tbh I am not sure you should make each economy the same-ish, so the same game-play is useful for each economy 06:55:27 <andythenorth> extreme uses ports to provide free ENSP and FMSP 06:55:48 <andythenorth> otherwise the gameplay is very dominated by generating those cargos 06:55:50 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 06:55:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 06:56:06 <andythenorth> extreme is better played as a sandbox, or with BB 06:57:48 <Alberth> so it has enough chains to avoid ports 06:58:41 <andythenorth> well it has enough chains that it's easy to dump arbitrary cargos into ports 06:58:46 <andythenorth> generating ENSP and FMSP 06:59:12 <andythenorth> ports function to get cargos produced from inputs that make no sense IRL 06:59:27 <andythenorth> trading, rather than processing 07:03:01 *** tokai has quit IRC 07:19:31 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 07:25:09 *** Guest7628 is now known as Prof_Frink 07:25:42 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7631 08:03:31 *** murr4y has joined #openttd 08:08:58 *** shary has joined #openttd 08:11:47 *** synchris has joined #openttd 08:13:32 *** shary has quit IRC 08:13:32 *** Progman has joined #openttd 08:26:09 *** Guest7631 is now known as Prof_Frink 08:26:42 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7635 09:21:10 <andythenorth> maybe this is better http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown 09:21:18 <andythenorth> previous: http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/releases/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown 09:26:43 *** Samu has joined #openttd 09:26:46 <Samu> hi 09:27:09 *** Guest7635 is now known as Prof_Frink 09:27:42 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7636 09:39:42 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 09:40:01 <Samu> i need a proper way to identify an oil rig station at an industry, for newgrf purposes 09:40:28 <Samu> i tested FIRS 09:41:15 <Samu> there's an industry that is built on water but doesn't have an oilrig station near 09:42:36 <Alberth> andythenorth: "Larger cargoflow" doesn't quite work, but the farms seem out of place to me 09:43:50 <Samu> Port, Bulk Terminal, Fishing Harbour, more than 1 actually 09:44:53 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:47:39 <Samu> then, there's Fishing Grounds and Dredging Site which built oilrigs, firs calls it sandbanks 09:49:16 <Alberth> ports are not water industries 09:50:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 09:52:21 <Samu> i'm confused, i need to build them at coasts 09:52:52 <Samu> coastal tiles are water tiles 09:52:57 <Samu> MP_WATER 09:53:39 <Alberth> yes, it requires coast tiles but it's a normal lang industry 09:53:59 <Alberth> you cannot use the industry without building a station next to it 09:54:21 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 09:54:33 <Alberth> andy just added a requirement to the tiles that some must be watery 09:54:55 <Alberth> looks better, given the name :) 09:55:20 <Samu> i need to investigate the Port industry better 09:55:36 <Samu> what behaviour does it have and such 09:56:37 <Alberth> you can look up in the code what type iof industry it i 09:56:40 <Alberth> *is 09:56:47 <Alberth> bbl 09:56:51 *** Alberth has left #openttd 09:56:53 <Samu> so apparently, i can't identify an oil rig by the industry behavioir 09:57:09 <Samu> when i say oil rig, I mean the station near the industry 10:07:00 <V453000> do I go to jail if I have openttd in the background just playing the original ttd music? 10:07:24 *** OsteHovel has quit IRC 10:09:03 *** OsteHovel has joined #openttd 10:10:43 <Eddi|zuHause> if it's the old title game, you surely go insane from the *dingdingding* :p 10:11:16 <V453000> no it's a multiplayer map scrolled to the corner :D 10:12:29 *** mindlesstux has quit IRC 10:13:08 *** mindlesstux has joined #openttd 10:17:04 *** OsteHovel has quit IRC 10:18:23 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 10:18:45 *** OsteHovel has joined #openttd 10:28:10 *** Guest7636 is now known as Prof_Frink 10:28:42 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7643 10:29:23 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 10:58:40 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd 11:29:10 *** Guest7643 is now known as Prof_Frink 11:29:42 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7646 12:01:03 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:07:37 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 12:17:44 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest7647 12:17:45 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 12:22:37 *** Guest7647 has quit IRC 12:30:10 *** Guest7646 is now known as Prof_Frink 12:30:42 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7649 12:34:17 <andythenorth> so how much should the grapviz layout dictate FIRS gameplay? 12:34:44 <Eddi|zuHause> as grahpviz layout is generally terrible: not too much 12:38:30 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#in_a_hot_country is that a mess or not? 12:38:35 <andythenorth> because the economy plays fine 12:38:46 <andythenorth> 'mess' is a relative concept in graphviz output 12:39:27 <Eddi|zuHause> that seems fine to me, why? 12:39:47 <andythenorth> ok 12:40:00 <andythenorth> triangulating what 'mess' means to other people 12:42:01 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure if i'm a reliable authority on that :p 12:42:26 <andythenorth> it will do 12:47:42 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest7650 12:47:42 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 12:51:41 *** Guest7650 has quit IRC 12:55:51 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 12:57:58 <andythenorth> this chart is somewhat neat 12:57:59 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown 12:58:11 <andythenorth> but Pipe doesn't go to Liquids Terminal, and I want it to 12:58:17 <andythenorth> it's play-tested already and works fine 12:58:30 <andythenorth> adding that edge ruins the graph 12:58:51 <andythenorth> also sending Vehicles to port ruins the graph 12:59:12 <Eddi|zuHause> can't help you on that 13:00:03 <frosch123> sulphur goes to liquids terminal? 13:00:12 <andythenorth> molten sulphur 13:01:57 <Samu> supermop are u around 13:02:07 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 13:02:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 13:02:12 <Alberth> o/ 13:02:21 <andythenorth> lo Alberth 13:02:22 <frosch123> just add the pipe->liquid terminal 13:02:31 <frosch123> i think you are overrating the graphs 13:02:42 *** Gja has joined #openttd 13:02:45 <frosch123> port is weird 13:02:50 <frosch123> port is like a town 13:03:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i think you can add a property to a -> so it doesn't induce a layout change 13:03:14 <frosch123> can the general store produce gold? 13:03:15 <andythenorth> that's kind of what I want to hear 13:03:26 <Eddi|zuHause> but instead is drawn whatever way fits 13:03:35 <Samu> need english help 13:03:43 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_NONIND_ACCEPT_AT_SELF :Allow industry stations to accept cargo of other sources: {STRING2} 13:03:45 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:03:49 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_IND_ACCEPT_AT_NONSELF 13:04:00 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_IND_ACCEPT_AT_NONSELF :Allow non-industry stations to accept cargo accepted by the industry: {STRING2} 13:04:04 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:04:06 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_NONIND_SUPPLY_AT_SELF :Allow industry stations to supply cargo of other sources: {STRING2} 13:04:14 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_IND_SUPPLY_AT_NONSELF :Allow non-industry stations to be supplied with cargo supplied by the industry: {STRING2} 13:04:22 <Samu> regarding this: https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=77199 13:05:02 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown 13:05:05 <andythenorth> pretty bad 13:05:09 <frosch123> vehicle dealer should output scrap metal 13:05:31 <frosch123> hmm, oh there is a separate scrap yard 13:05:35 <andythenorth> scrappage :) 13:05:48 <andythenorth> at a fixed rate? 13:05:56 <andythenorth> or more if vehicles are delivered? 13:06:07 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 13:06:15 <Eddi|zuHause> cash for clunkers (or what was that called?) 13:06:15 <Samu> guess it's confusing? 13:06:23 <frosch123> conversation is hard :) 13:06:23 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 13:06:28 <frosch123> fixed rate 13:06:39 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: tooth gold 13:07:22 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... 45 minutes to download Civ VI (and then i probably hate it) 13:14:57 <Alberth> towns produce scrap :p 13:19:49 *** synchris has quit IRC 13:20:11 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 13:25:01 <Samu> i figured better variable names 13:25:10 <Samu> ACCEPT_NONINDCARGO_AT_INDSTATION 13:25:22 <Samu> ACCEPT_INDCARGO_AT_NONINDSTATION 13:25:29 <Samu> SUPPLY_NONINDCARGO_AT_INDSTATION 13:25:30 <supermop_home> Eddi|zuHause: that was the colloquial name used in the news, the actual law/program had some stupid law name no one remembers 13:25:37 <Samu> SUPPLY_INDCARGO_AT_NONINDSTATION 13:25:49 <Samu> hope they're clear enough 13:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_home: we had a similar program called "Abwrackprämie" 13:26:11 <supermop_home> sometimes American laws have the most boring uninformative names, 13:26:31 <Samu> oh, supermop_home, if you have time, are these string names easy to understand? 13:26:50 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_home: german law names are also boring, but also occasionally monstrous :p 13:27:03 <Samu> they are strings for settings 13:27:11 <supermop_home> and sometimes some congressman tries to be clever and shoehorn a ridiculous name into a lame acronym that makes you roll your eyes like a bad dad joke 13:27:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure the concept of a "dad joke" exists here 13:27:42 <supermop_home> samu, make sense to me 13:28:21 <Samu> oki 13:28:25 <supermop_home> Eddi|zuHause I could make a bad dad joke about how all german jokes are bad.... 13:28:56 <supermop_home> I do know many germans who are pretty funny though 13:28:56 <Samu> Alberth: i might have some trouble identifying industries which build stations 13:29:32 <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pmtjm5zum 13:29:42 <Samu> is this enough? 13:30:48 <Samu> i'm not too sure what tile_are_loop do 13:30:49 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop_home: well, my understanding of "dad jokes" is that they're meant to be bad 13:31:11 *** Guest7649 is now known as Prof_Frink 13:31:18 <supermop_home> Eddi|zuHause I think it depends on if the joke is being told as a meta joke or not 13:31:42 <Samu> tile_area_loop 13:31:46 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7651 13:31:56 <supermop_home> in the most straightforward case I believe it is just a bad joke from a dad who things its kind of funny 13:33:00 <supermop_home> some dads of course are aware of how embarassing the bad jokes are to their teenage kids and as a meta joke, then tell intentionally bad jokes in the style of a clueless dad 13:33:53 <Samu> are there newgrf industries that build train stations, i think i saw some newgrf that do this... can't recall 13:34:01 <supermop_home> my dad seemed to pass into this 2nd phase around 8 or so years ago (when I was already in my 20s) 13:34:33 <supermop_home> also before he became aware of this trope he actually told pretty good jokes 13:35:36 <supermop_home> after having a few jokes fall flat with my wife, over the past couple years, I have prematurely moved to the dad joke phase with her 13:37:35 <andythenorth> if I delete the Pipe cargo, the graph likely improves 13:37:58 <supermop_home> what is the UK dad joke paradigm andythenorth? 13:38:44 <andythenorth> on a par with dad dancing 13:39:07 <supermop_home> hmm that is not an established trope here 13:39:34 <supermop_home> my dad generally avoids dancing as much as possible 13:40:03 <supermop_home> my mom had to force him to at my wedding 13:40:31 *** Flygon has quit IRC 13:40:56 <frosch123> also at his own wedding? 13:40:58 <andythenorth> ok so FIRS graphs are poor when an end-of-chain output cargo loops back to near the start of a chain 13:41:13 <andythenorth> the graphs are set up to avoid that for ENSP and FMSP 13:41:19 <frosch123> andythenorth: it's called "supplies" 13:41:29 <frosch123> replace pipe with engsup? 13:41:33 <supermop_home> frosch123 based on the photos of him in an all white tuxedo with flared pants, I assume he was a bit more eager then 13:41:54 <andythenorth> frosch123: tried that, works 13:42:02 <andythenorth> doesn't give me interesting cargo sprites though :) 13:42:24 <supermop_home> andy's lament "it works, must fix it" 13:42:38 <supermop_home> you could tattoo that across your chest 13:44:44 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 13:48:09 <andythenorth> supermop_home: should <button> and <input> tags in html stop showing hand cursor on hover? o_O 13:48:16 <andythenorth> oops, wrong obsession :P 13:49:42 <andythenorth> frosch123: is it wrong to group more cargos in with ENSP/FMSP? o_O 13:49:54 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 13:51:25 <frosch123> i would rather look at the amount of industries producing/requireing them 13:51:52 <frosch123> supplies are not supposed to be a mass cargo, right? 13:52:10 <andythenorth> no 13:52:17 <frosch123> they add production bonuses but are not directly processed 13:52:20 <andythenorth> yes 13:52:32 <andythenorth> ports are unusual 13:52:38 <andythenorth> and are causing me trouble in Steeltown 13:52:47 <frosch123> i actually would cut down on the ports in steeltown 13:52:54 <andythenorth> I'm trying to :) 13:52:57 <frosch123> merge port and trading post 13:53:11 <supermop_home> i'd cut down on ports in general in most cases 13:53:12 <frosch123> merge pipe into ensp 13:53:20 <frosch123> and remove ensp from trading post 13:53:37 <supermop_home> seems like port should be a niche helper, not the focus of chains 13:53:48 <andythenorth> depends on economy 13:53:55 <supermop_home> of course 13:54:06 <andythenorth> if the only source of ENSP is the steel chain, Steeltown is unplayable :) 13:54:29 <andythenorth> needs to be some almost-free sources 13:54:42 <supermop_home> port is bootstrap helper 13:55:32 <supermop_home> when game starts its like you are on some undeveloped frontier, of course you need a little bit from outside to start up 13:55:48 <frosch123> i do not quite like "zinc" 13:56:08 <frosch123> is there a good term for "additive metals" or something? 13:56:12 <supermop_home> but some portal where you dump hundreds of tons of x and get hundreds of tons of y doesn't quite fit 13:56:16 <frosch123> something that could be delivered to multiple sources 13:56:30 <frosch123> like foundry 13:56:32 <supermop_home> something like fine metals? 13:56:47 <frosch123> or some tools workshop: steel + additive metals -> goods 13:56:54 <supermop_home> idk if that is the word, but thats the analogous term for chemical industry 13:56:57 <frosch123> +ensp possibly 13:57:13 <andythenorth> frosch123: I had 'non-ferrous metals' previously 13:57:19 <andythenorth> deleted it in an earlier version 13:57:26 <andythenorth> I am 100% not convinced by zinc 13:57:35 <supermop_home> i wonder if grouping all the alloying metals together is weird tho 13:57:36 <andythenorth> it was better as chemicals 13:57:44 <supermop_home> zinc is a chemical 13:57:47 <supermop_home> technically 13:58:00 <andythenorth> let's try dropping zinc 13:58:03 <frosch123> chemicals are liquids to me :) 13:58:14 <andythenorth> liquid zinc ;) 13:58:20 <frosch123> "fine metals" sound fine to me 13:58:29 <frosch123> zinc -> fine metals 13:58:37 <frosch123> fine metals -> foundry 13:58:51 <frosch123> steel + fine metals -> tools workshop -> goods + ensp 13:59:07 <supermop_home> frosch123 i feel like people might think fine metals are things for jewelry though, platinum, silver, gold, iridium 13:59:30 * andythenorth tests 13:59:38 <andythenorth> I think just deleting zinc is cleanest 13:59:50 <andythenorth> can't expect a clean graph if there's too much stuff 14:00:12 <frosch123> weird priorities again :) 14:00:12 *** Smedles has quit IRC 14:00:25 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 14:01:02 <andythenorth> the graphs do seem to match up with playability 14:01:23 * supermop_home fails to find simpsons zinc gif 14:01:28 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#in_a_hot_country <- I just played a game of that 14:01:42 <andythenorth> the gameplay is fun, there are lots of almost-separate mini-chains 14:01:46 <andythenorth> as per the graph 14:01:53 <andythenorth> might be post-hoc rationalisation though :P 14:02:23 <supermop_home> https://frinkiac.com/meme/S03E16/71032.jpg?lines=+Come+back.+Zinc%2C+come%0A+back.+Zinc%21 14:02:30 <frosch123> "special metals"? 14:02:38 <Alberth> you change "in a hot country" lately? 14:03:03 <Alberth> *changed 14:03:13 <andythenorth> not much 14:04:43 <frosch123> andythenorth: about chains: i prefer asymmetric chains with either more producers than demanders or more demanders than producers. 1:1 cargos are weird 14:04:44 <Alberth> I tried it some time ago, and it didn't appeal to me, quite like default play 14:04:46 <frosch123> that 14:05:06 <frosch123> that's why i would like to have zinc/fine metal/special metals to have mulitple destinations 14:05:15 <andythenorth> yes, it IAHC is quite like default play 14:06:43 <Alberth> steeltown forces me to decide where to bring the cargo 14:07:00 <Alberth> (if I have something to say about it :p ) 14:08:21 <andythenorth> interesting feedback 14:08:26 <andythenorth> I thought the choices would be annoying 14:08:29 <andythenorth> I've been removing them 14:09:24 <frosch123> mind, it's only a choice if there are few destinations (2 or 3) 14:09:33 <andythenorth> it has an upside too 14:09:36 <frosch123> not if it's "everyone wants it" 14:09:50 <frosch123> so, different to supplies 14:09:50 <andythenorth> when there are 2 destinations, there is possibly more chance of one of them being nearby :P 14:09:56 <andythenorth> this is a serious factor 14:10:12 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown 14:10:24 <andythenorth> I think it's better without any secondary metals, just steel 14:10:44 <andythenorth> logic says I should delete Pipe too 14:11:16 <andythenorth> but Pipe cargo looks cool https://akronrrclub.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/fostoria-pipe-x.jpg 14:11:22 <andythenorth> http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/photo/scaled/5631.jpg 14:11:32 <andythenorth> I think that is a legit concern 14:14:13 <Alberth> clearly, pipe cargo must be yellow 14:14:41 <andythenorth> or blue or green :D 14:15:27 <Alberth> I don't understand why you have farms and food in there 14:15:33 <Alberth> it looks off 14:15:53 <andythenorth> food isn't optional 14:16:00 <andythenorth> required for arctic and tropic 14:16:02 <Alberth> maybe you try to have alcohol in there? :p 14:16:49 <frosch123> rename the economy to robot town 14:16:56 <frosch123> replace food with batteries 14:17:33 <andythenorth> are vehicles exportable? o_O 14:17:37 <andythenorth> or just to towns? 14:17:42 <andythenorth> there's something weird either way 14:17:51 <andythenorth> vehicles -> port -> more stuff in the chain 14:18:03 <andythenorth> vehicles -> towns, but everyone knows vehicles are a global export? 14:18:39 <frosch123> i think ports should not accept the exact same as towns 14:18:47 <frosch123> a port is not a town without inhabitants 14:19:17 <frosch123> delivering goods or food to ports would be "wrong" 14:19:58 <frosch123> vehicles may be acceptable 14:25:00 <andythenorth> the clusters are better now http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown 14:26:51 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:32:11 *** Guest7651 is now known as Prof_Frink 14:32:45 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7655 14:36:32 *** synchris has joined #openttd 14:50:42 <andythenorth> sand for glass isn't from the sea 14:50:48 <andythenorth> should I add dredging site anyway? 14:50:59 <andythenorth> there are zero sea-based industries in Steeltown 14:51:45 <frosch123> i don't think that is bad 14:52:01 <frosch123> keep the out-of-scope cargos to the ports :) 14:53:37 <andythenorth> could add a black hole for Pipe 14:53:38 <andythenorth> at sea 14:53:43 <andythenorth> pipe-laying barge :P 14:54:05 <andythenorth> could add wind turbines? 14:54:11 <andythenorth> could add electrical machines? 14:54:14 * andythenorth many ideas 14:59:25 <Alberth> consumer goods :) 14:59:49 <andythenorth> fridges 14:59:53 <frosch123> andythenorth: can you rename one of the ports to "shipyard"? 15:00:09 <andythenorth> I played a game with shipyard :) 15:00:10 <frosch123> or actually another shore-based industry "shipyard" 15:00:18 <frosch123> accepting steel and pipe and stuff 15:00:26 <andythenorth> had the 'sea supplies' concept 15:00:29 <andythenorth> was kind of ... odd 15:00:34 <andythenorth> sea supplies went to ports 15:01:08 <frosch123> i imagine a shipyard to be visually interesting 15:01:13 <andythenorth> +1 15:01:23 <supermop_home> hmm city is outpacing the cute jitneys 15:01:46 <andythenorth> oil rig construction yard 15:01:48 <andythenorth> no oil though :D 15:01:56 <supermop_home> could replace with trams or proper buses but I like seeing the little guys run around 15:02:09 <frosch123> andythenorth: ofc, they are under construction 15:02:26 <andythenorth> maybe I should add train factory 15:03:05 <frosch123> i would stay away from that rabbit hole 15:03:15 <frosch123> people will demand effect on gameplay 15:04:07 <frosch123> (somehow that does not hold for shipyards :p ) 15:05:30 <andythenorth> no :) 15:05:48 <Samu> dayum, i was having trouble creating settings 15:06:16 <Samu> turns out a damn typo was affecting it all 15:06:25 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTING_ACCEPT_NONINDCARGO_AT_INDSTATION 15:06:29 <Samu> STR_CONFIG_SETTINGS_ACCEPT_NONINDCARGO_AT_INDSTATION 15:06:36 <Samu> that damn S 15:06:39 <Samu> was ruining 15:08:19 <frosch123> shipyard could boost nearby ports? 15:08:43 <frosch123> likely too obscure 15:10:16 <andythenorth> too obscure :) 15:10:31 <andythenorth> it was a cute concept, but the chains just got way too long 15:11:02 <Samu> https://imgur.com/6xXnabo 15:11:36 <Samu> that Cargo Distribution just above... so misleading 15:12:57 <Samu> is it in good english? i have yet to come with _HELPTEXTs 15:14:17 <andythenorth> what else can I deliver to liquids terminal? o_O 15:17:46 <frosch123> fmsp 15:18:13 <andythenorth> resins? o_O 15:18:43 <frosch123> not steeltown :) 15:19:32 <andythenorth> milk? o_O 15:19:54 <frosch123> you could shift cement from bulk terminal to liquids terminal 15:20:07 <andythenorth> powdered? 15:21:33 <frosch123> when you move cement to liquids, you can merge bulk terminal and port 15:21:58 <andythenorth> nah, I'm one cargo over 15:22:07 <andythenorth> 3 into 2 doesn't go 15:22:21 * andythenorth might lose wifi any minute :| 15:33:11 *** Guest7655 is now known as Prof_Frink 15:33:45 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7660 15:44:19 <andythenorth> gas field? 15:44:21 <andythenorth> o_O 15:44:27 <andythenorth> gas -> lime kiln 15:44:32 <andythenorth> pipe -> gas field 15:44:55 <andythenorth> port -> chemicals 15:44:59 <andythenorth> sulphur -> bulk terminal 15:45:09 <andythenorth> delete liquids terminal 15:56:01 <andythenorth> probably just time to start play-testing 15:56:11 <andythenorth> enough armchair design :P 16:02:40 <Samu> question, are there town buildings built on water? 16:03:02 <Samu> well, nevermind, even if they are, they don't have a neutral station 16:03:39 <supermop_home> samu, no I'm not sure how that would work 16:04:05 <supermop_home> something like a Vietnamese or Cambodian 'floating village' would be neat 16:04:42 <supermop_home> but in practice it would probably be more like a FIRS fishing grounds with different sprites 16:04:44 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 16:16:47 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 16:34:12 *** Guest7660 is now known as Prof_Frink 16:34:45 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7663 16:36:34 <andythenorth> how did I break 2nd CC in Horse? :o 16:38:14 <frosch123> removed the flag to enable it? 16:38:27 <frosch123> added the cb for recoloring? 16:39:48 <andythenorth> added the cb for recolouring 16:39:58 <andythenorth> maybe the flag got mangled 16:40:30 <frosch123> if the cb is used, the flag likely does not matter 16:40:32 <frosch123> only the cb results 16:43:17 <andythenorth> I get 2cc as blue only 16:43:35 <frosch123> so the cb returns 2cc_base or something 16:43:39 <andythenorth> maybe 16:43:43 <andythenorth> recolour sprite might be wrong 16:44:48 <andythenorth> http://dev.openttdcoop.org/projects/iron-horse/repository/revisions/4d46d66fbfd7/entry/src/templates/graphics_switches.pynml#L10 16:45:27 <frosch123> 1: return base_sprite_2cc; <!--! no change --> <- that sets both to dark blue 16:45:41 *** Samu has quit IRC 16:46:06 <frosch123> make it the same as the line below, but swap 1 and 2 16:47:34 *** Samu has joined #openttd 16:47:50 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 16:53:34 <supermop_home> maybe i'll electrify all this freight 16:53:59 <frosch123> to prevent theft? 16:54:06 <supermop_home> ha 16:54:19 <supermop_home> theft by low station rating 16:54:41 <supermop_home> because i can't fit the slow steam freight into the schedule for the mainline 16:56:23 <andythenorth> ok 2CC works now frosch :) 16:56:28 <andythenorth> but 1CC is broken :) 16:56:49 *** Cubey has quit IRC 16:56:53 <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pm6jcnxmb/smodfl/raw 16:57:44 <andythenorth> looks to me like the compile has failed 16:57:50 <andythenorth> nml is wrong 16:59:23 <frosch123> switch looks fine to me 17:02:44 <andythenorth> EBKC 17:02:47 <andythenorth> compiling FIRS :P 17:05:34 *** Gustavo6046 has quit IRC 17:15:41 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:15:41 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:17:58 <supermop_home> hmm where to cascade all these old tiny buses 17:22:04 <andythenorth> starting a steeltown game is very hard 17:22:21 <andythenorth> everything connects, so if the map is short of some industry types, game will be fail 17:26:14 <supermop_home> andythenorth I usually end up missing some big harbor type industry in firs games 17:26:23 <andythenorth> yup 17:26:36 <andythenorth> you have to have water > 40% in my experience 17:27:28 <supermop_home> sometimes i try to roll with it and make enough to buy one 17:35:12 *** Guest7663 is now known as Prof_Frink 17:35:45 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7667 17:41:47 *** Gja has quit IRC 17:45:18 <Samu> i had a bug with town cargo acceptance :( 17:48:40 <Samu> it's so easy to get confused, i'm dealing with 4 behaviours, each one can be on and off now 17:49:14 <Samu> alright, think this is now working 17:49:19 <Samu> gonna post v2 17:49:33 <Samu> oh wait, i'm not posting, need to add descriptions 17:49:55 <Samu> looking for an expert in english 17:50:18 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 17:50:27 <Samu> Allow industry stations to accept cargo of other sources: {STRING2} 17:51:19 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 17:54:45 <Samu> When disabled, stations attached to industries, such as Oil Rigs, won't accept cargo that is not accepted by the industry this station serves. 17:56:32 <Samu> When disabled, stations attached to industries, such as Oil Rigs, won't accept cargo that is not accepted by the industry this station is attached to. 17:56:34 <Samu> better? 17:56:52 <Samu> these stations are attached to? 17:57:14 <Samu> I'm terrible at describing stuff, a little help plz 18:26:02 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 18:29:36 *** debdog has quit IRC 18:32:17 *** Gja has joined #openttd 18:34:15 *** debdog has joined #openttd 18:36:12 *** Guest7667 is now known as Prof_Frink 18:36:43 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7668 18:41:35 <peter1138> That's terrible wording, indeed. 18:59:24 *** Cubey has quit IRC 19:15:02 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 19:16:48 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 19:17:35 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 19:20:41 <Samu> english help needed! -> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pbjapmzyk 19:20:55 <Samu> thx in advance, dinner time, be back later 19:24:57 *** fukT^ has left #openttd 19:25:28 *** zermizh has joined #openttd 19:37:01 *** Guest7668 is now known as Prof_Frink 19:37:33 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7669 19:39:01 <andythenorth> yeah no 19:39:09 <andythenorth> liquids terminal needs another input 19:39:12 <V453000> izn't? 19:40:25 <andythenorth> such 19:41:05 * V453000 is just peacefully proceeding to make a train model :> 19:41:34 <andythenorth> winning 19:50:46 <andythenorth> what can soda ash be converted to? 19:51:56 <Samu> bacl 19:52:14 <Samu> meh no replies 19:55:04 <andythenorth> caustic soda? 19:57:13 <frosch123> is that related to metal? 19:57:41 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 19:57:51 <andythenorth> no 19:57:55 <andythenorth> it's a free cargo 19:58:03 <andythenorth> produced from soda ash and limestone 19:58:13 <andythenorth> makes caustic soda and quicklime 19:58:34 <andythenorth> which is all very clever, but I would just make it a second cargo from soda ash mine 19:58:39 <andythenorth> to liquids terminal 19:59:04 <andythenorth> or some other arbitrary chemicals 20:00:42 <andythenorth> ammonia from Haber Process? 20:00:48 <frosch123> what about sending fmsp to liquids terminal? 20:01:19 <frosch123> what's the fmsp level in your game? too much? too little? 20:01:23 <andythenorth> about right 20:01:36 <andythenorth> it only comes from slag grinding plant 20:01:43 <frosch123> hmm, i thought it would be too much with only one destination 20:02:22 <frosch123> does any other economy export supplies? 20:02:32 <andythenorth> nah 20:02:35 * andythenorth checks 20:02:36 <frosch123> i mean most ports supply some supplies, so some economy should export them :p 20:02:40 <andythenorth> I know :) 20:03:17 <andythenorth> the ports aggregate :D 20:03:30 <andythenorth> all the other cargos that get delivered to ports are combined to be supplies 20:03:31 <frosch123> i wonder, is it possibly to turn the ports into some late-game thing 20:03:50 <frosch123> imagine you have mines in the early game, but they never increase production 20:04:20 <frosch123> while there are some hard to reach conditions for ports to import a ton of ore 20:04:39 <frosch123> like, export lots of vehicles, get lots of ore 20:04:45 <frosch123> export few things, get nothing 20:06:05 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:10:19 <andythenorth> think it would need to be designed for that gameplay 20:12:35 <andythenorth> ports would produce zero unless delivered to? 20:20:25 <frosch123> i just wonder how the reverse to iahc would look like 20:20:33 <frosch123> iacc? 20:20:48 <frosch123> iatc? 20:22:41 <andythenorth> there has long been planned an arctic economy 20:22:46 <andythenorth> but I never got inspired to make it :) 20:23:15 <frosch123> but arctic is not exactly a colonial empire 20:23:29 <frosch123> s/empire/overlord/ 20:23:56 <andythenorth> depends on your views about indigineous reinder herders 20:24:05 <V453000> death to all 20:27:46 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 20:28:08 <andythenorth> hmm 20:28:13 <andythenorth> salt from soda ash mine? 20:28:30 <andythenorth> salt -> chemicals plant -> chemicals 20:32:56 <Samu> FLHerne and supermop_home i posted a new version https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=77199&p=1193521#p1193521 20:33:19 <Samu> who wants to test it out? 20:38:01 *** Guest7669 is now known as Prof_Frink 20:38:44 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7670 20:40:03 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 20:42:49 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd 20:53:36 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 20:55:16 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:56:32 <andythenorth> steeltown seems to mostly be chemicals :P 20:58:14 <supermop_home> this brickworks is located in such a way there is no natural way to branch off the mainline to bring it clay 20:58:26 <supermop_home> may have to just use trucks 20:58:54 <Samu> supermop_home: :( 21:03:16 <supermop_home> https://imgur.com/a/RWCzI 21:03:29 <supermop_home> how would you guys go about that 21:04:51 <supermop_home> truck or branch line? 21:05:22 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:06:05 <frosch123> huh? there is plenty of space for a branch 21:07:13 *** debdog has quit IRC 21:07:19 *** debdog has joined #openttd 21:08:20 *** debdog has joined #openttd 21:12:32 <supermop_home> seems like it would look odd crossing over the other branch 21:12:44 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 21:23:01 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:24:58 *** Gja has quit IRC 21:38:00 *** Gja has joined #openttd 21:39:01 *** Guest7670 is now known as Prof_Frink 21:39:30 <FLHerne> supermop_home: Extend the river, build some of the little squid barges 21:39:34 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7674 21:39:49 <supermop_home> FLHerne forgot to load a ship set this game 21:40:03 <FLHerne> Meh, adding vehicle sets is usually safe-ish 21:40:22 <FLHerne> Oh, maybe not if you have existing default ships that would be disabled 21:41:19 <FLHerne> Crossing the branch would be ugly, yes 21:43:06 <supermop_home> might build a yard just past west edge of the screenshot 21:43:08 <FLHerne> You could move the existing branch to the north, so it crosses the lake and joins the mainline between the claypit and Yen Dung 21:43:27 <supermop_home> hmm yeah 21:44:25 <supermop_home> I was thinking make the branch cross the river further south, so it swings by the brickyard 21:45:08 <FLHerne> https://i.imgur.com/M0hMbBa.png or so 21:45:45 <FLHerne> Oops 21:45:55 <FLHerne> http://www.flherne.uk/files/supermop_map.png rather 21:46:17 <FLHerne> What's to the left? 21:46:56 <FLHerne> Does the branch have to join the mainline where it does, or could it go via the brickworks and then at a nicer angle? 21:48:21 <FLHerne> http://www.flherne.uk/files/supermop_map_2.png ? 21:53:32 <supermop_home> and then dump clay and sand in a yard off the edge to the west, where another train will take it down the branch 21:53:56 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:54:29 <supermop_home> coal comes from the branch to a steelmill to the west, so a realignment would allow some coal to get dropped at the brick yard 22:04:48 <supermop_home> too complex maybe: https://imgur.com/a/CsgVM 22:05:37 <supermop_home> black yard is coal dump, industrial tram can take some to the brick works 22:06:22 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 22:06:56 <Samu> what you guys talkin about 22:07:09 *** oskari89 has quit IRC 22:07:16 <supermop_home> cement plant to NW, so clay train can take somecoal back to the clay pit, then it can head onward with some clay that way 22:07:49 <supermop_home> Samu how to connect more industries to my network in a way that doesn't look too ugly 22:10:14 <supermop_home> FLHerne the only problem with your diagram is I hate having the loading station on the other side of the line from the industry 22:11:00 <supermop_home> this line only sees one passenger train ever 36 days or so, so I can cross the mainline at freight speed somewhere 22:17:29 <FLHerne> supermop_home: You can use those ISR conveyor-tunnel-entrances to make it look good 22:17:38 <FLHerne> (or just add a crossing) 22:17:39 *** Smedles has quit IRC 22:17:54 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 22:39:15 <Samu> i'm bored 22:39:31 <ST2> grab some tea ^^ 22:39:44 <Samu> oh hey 22:40:02 *** Guest7674 is now known as Prof_Frink 22:40:24 <supermop_home> this stupi sheep farm/oil refinery is really in the way of a nice potential junction 22:40:25 <Samu> i grabbed some savegame of your giant 2k map server 22:40:34 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7679 22:40:48 <Samu> loaded in my patched openttd, and screwed all ships 22:40:49 <ST2> Samu: you could asked for it ^^ 22:41:00 <Samu> mission successful 22:41:18 *** synchris has quit IRC 22:41:30 <Samu> just kidding 22:41:49 <ST2> well, what you do on SP... no one will complain xD 22:42:26 <Samu> having it as settings was a really good idea 22:42:39 <Samu> supermop_home: don't you wanna test? 22:42:51 <supermop_home> test what? 22:43:00 <Samu> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=77199 22:43:06 <Samu> i uploaded v2 22:43:22 <supermop_home> I am technically testing my RVs right now 22:43:28 <Samu> :) 22:43:43 <supermop_home> just distracted my trying to make some nice train junctions 22:43:48 <supermop_home> but ill take a look 22:44:05 <supermop_home> I don't know how to compile 22:44:09 <ST2> Samu: waterborne cargos are quite tricky - had you tested it with FIRS, for example 22:44:34 <Samu> uhm... well, part of firs, yes, i'm not familiar at all with it 22:45:25 <Samu> there were waterborne industries in it that don't have stations 22:45:40 <ST2> exactly 22:45:42 <supermop_home> I don't think that is true 22:45:52 <Samu> that made me rethink how I was checking those stations 22:46:08 <supermop_home> fishing grounds and dredging site both have station 22:46:14 <Samu> v2 is supposedly handling it better 22:46:49 <Samu> those industries / stations 22:47:23 <Samu> it seems that 2 consecutive IndustryGfx == 24 22:47:58 <Samu> dictacte whether the industry will attach a station 22:48:03 <Samu> or not 22:48:38 <Samu> it's a bit tricky 22:50:56 <Samu> when the station is built, the IndustryGfx information is lost 22:51:02 <Samu> on one of the tiles 22:52:14 <Samu> i'm not 100% sure my new method is fool-proof, but should be okay 22:53:42 <Samu> so, plz throw newgrfs at it, see if it fails or misbehaves, supermop_home, once you have tijme 23:01:05 *** Progman has quit IRC 23:03:21 *** Gustavo6046 has joined #openttd 23:05:17 *** Gja has quit IRC 23:13:38 <Samu> my most downloaded patch https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=76081&p=1184335&hilit=patch#p1184335 23:13:48 <Samu> i'm surprised it's related to AIs 23:23:04 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 23:41:02 *** Guest7679 is now known as Prof_Frink 23:41:34 *** Prof_Frink is now known as Guest7683 23:49:15 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 23:51:08 <Samu> crap, i found a bug... cargodist is ruining it 23:51:50 <Speedy> sleep over and try again 23:55:11 <Samu> actually, i'm confused 23:56:04 <Samu> cargodist is so confusing i dont even know if it's bugged 23:58:03 <Samu> doesn't seem bugged 23:58:12 <Samu> seems to be how cargodist works :o 23:59:18 <Samu> I am, on the fly, changing cargo acceptance of a station. Cargodist seems to cope with it