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Log for #openttd on 2nd November 2017:
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06:47:55  <PressureLine> damn slow Czarist trains
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08:32:42  <Wolf01> o/
08:43:49  <PressureLine> \o
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10:29:59  <andythenorth> V453000: just leaving this here https://www.eyeonspain.com/userfiles/image/mac75/410.jpg
10:30:02  <andythenorth> Talgo train in Spain
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10:30:33  <V453000> :D
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13:14:49  <Wolf01> https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aZgdrvz_460sv.mp4 lol
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13:42:00  <supermop> good morning
13:42:44  <__ln__> good "morning"
13:43:01  <Wolf01> Sure it's morning somewhere in the world
13:43:28  <__ln__> not if you believe earth is flat
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14:01:59  <supermop> gah i totally missed this show i wanted to see: https://www.davidzwirner.com/exhibitions/ruth-asawa
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14:20:06  <Samu> hi
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15:36:27  <FLHerne> Hey, even the great Gene Ray accepted that it's always morning somewhere
15:42:20  <FLHerne> "You are not allowed to know truth - that in one rotation of Earth, there are:
15:42:28  <FLHerne>  * 24 hours in midnight to midnight.
15:42:35  <FLHerne>  * 24 hours in sunup to sunup...........
15:42:56  <FLHerne> * 24 hours in midday to midday.....
15:43:10  <FLHerne> * 24 hours in sundown to sundown.
15:43:22  <FLHerne> (IRC formatting can't really do Time Cube justice)
15:44:15  <FLHerne>  * 4 days in only 1 Earth rotation...
15:44:24  <FLHerne>  * 4 simultaneous years of the seasons.
15:44:55  <Rubidium> except that the earth doesn't do 1 rotation in 24 hours
15:45:19  <FLHerne>  * No infinite days within 96 hours.
15:45:52  <FLHerne> * 4 different directions in clockwise.
15:46:16  <FLHerne>  * 3 days lost to academic stupidity.
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15:48:01  <FLHerne> Rubidium: How dare you?! Teaching that Earth has only 1 day in 1 rotation, is adult poison forced on their children, as in the Jonestown mass murder.
15:48:10  <FLHerne> You shouldn't assert such evil things.
15:56:06  <Samu> I dunno how to ask this of you
15:56:23  <Samu> can i sort vectors?
15:56:25  <Samu> https://docs.openttd.org/classSmallVector.html
15:57:54  <LordAro> Samu: that StationLidt thing you were on a few days ago was a smallvector
15:58:01  <LordAro> i.e. the same way
15:58:33  <Samu> i'm back to it again, how did u guess
15:58:50  <Samu> bool  Include (const T &item)   Tests whether a item is present in the vector, and appends it to the end if not.
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15:59:22  <Samu> instead of appending it to the end, I insert it somewhere between two other items
15:59:29  <Samu> is that possible?
16:00:43  <Samu> trying to sort by insertion
16:03:58  <LordAro> QSortT is already a thing
16:04:04  <LordAro> whatever you're trying sounds awful
16:16:03  <Samu> :8
16:16:14  <Samu> I failed to use QSortT
16:16:19  <Samu> is it really that easy?
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16:17:45  <LordAro> Samu: yup
16:17:56  <LordAro> Samu: hint, exactly the same interface as qsort
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16:48:41  <Wolf01> https://youtu.be/MgqHi3SBrLY Hughes did it first (bananas)
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16:57:51  <Samu> LordAro: how do I pass the cargo type in the comparator?
17:00:57  <LordAro> Samu: not easily
17:01:05  <LordAro> i think you can do something with a comparator "object"
17:01:17  <Samu> static int CDECL CompareCargoRatings(Station * const *a, Station * const *b) { 	return (*b)->goods[type].rating - (*a)->goods[type].rating; }
17:01:27  <Samu> type is missing
17:02:45  <LordAro> yes
17:07:09  <Samu> comparator object?
17:09:57  <LordAro> sorry, i believe "comparison functor" is the more usual term
17:10:45  <LordAro> essentially you have a class with some state (type), and an operator() overload for the types you're interested in (Station *...)
17:10:51  <LordAro> i *think* that will work
17:11:04  <LordAro> there's an example in src/linkgraph.mcf.cpp, but it's a bit templatedised
17:13:01  <Wolf01> http://justacarguy.blogspot.it/2010/09/san-diego-1929-graham-paige-sound-train.html supermop
17:13:30  <Samu> i feel like copy pasting GSortT and adapt the comparator in it
17:15:12  <supermop> Wolf01: a suggestion to add to grf?
17:15:16  <LordAro> Samu: QSortT
17:15:21  <LordAro> but yes, that will work
17:15:39  <Wolf01> supermop: it might be an interesting theme
17:15:39  <Samu> QSortT code is HELL
17:15:44  <Samu> i mean qsort
17:15:51  <LordAro> Samu: well no, you don't copy that
17:15:58  <LordAro> that would be silly
17:16:48  <LordAro> Samu: if you could use C++11, i'd just say that you should just use a lambda
17:16:53  <LordAro> and variable capture
17:16:58  <LordAro> but alas ottd is not there yet
17:17:28  <Samu> qsort.cpp is a microsoft  file :(
17:17:47  <LordAro> qsort.cpp is microsoft's implementation of the POSIX function qsort
17:17:59  <LordAro> it's part of the standard library and no one is suggesting that you even look at that file
17:18:12  <supermop> Wolf01: current project is generating arbitrarily many random gourds for autumnal decoration
17:18:37  <Wolf01> :D
17:22:20  <supermop> https://imgur.com/a/txTNk
17:25:59  <supermop> maybe i'll add some lumpiness
17:26:49  <Cubey> Neat but you've gotta bend the central axis somehow
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17:30:45  <supermop> Cubey:  considered it but probably won't
17:31:20  <Cubey> You're in the uncanny valley of gourds!
17:31:27  <supermop> only really long necked gourds really have that, and then they might look like dicks
17:31:38  <supermop> uncanny valley is sort of the point
17:31:46  <Cubey> Ah yeah I guess that would be a problem
17:32:18  <supermop> going to use like 80s graphic patterns for the gourd skin
17:32:28  <Cubey> Some of those bowling pin looking ones just don't look right to me... making them gnarly and lumpy would probably help though
17:32:35  <supermop> yeah
17:33:36  <Cubey> This is neat though, I don't know exactly what it is but it looks like you set up parameters for procedurally generating a 3D model as a graph
17:33:46  <Cubey> And gourds are a great candidate for procedural generation
17:33:54  <supermop> well can add bump or displacement maps when rendering
17:34:43  <supermop> exactly, as they are sort of modular in their growth, despite having a huge diversity of shapes
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17:40:57  <supermop> hmm seems most decorative gourds have 10 radial segments
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17:41:40  <supermop> i sort of expected it to be an even distribution over a range of values
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17:44:22  <supermop> also currently in the 'fat' part of the gourd, i have the radius vary randomly, and just discard seed values that do not produce good looking results
17:44:52  <supermop> whereas i should make some rules about what range they can have
17:45:35  <Samu> LordAro: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p5m94nyp8
17:45:45  <Samu> that's what i got, pseudo-copy of my code
17:46:28  <Samu> how do I do this :(
17:46:49  <LordAro> i know what you've got
17:47:28  <Samu> CompareCargoRatings doesn't compile
17:47:38  <Samu> doesn't know the variable type
17:47:54  <Samu> named "type"
17:47:54  <LordAro> i understand what's going on, there's no need to repeat it
17:48:11  <Samu> sorry, i'm noob
17:50:48  <Samu>  QSortT<Station *>(used_stations.Begin(), used_stations.Length(), CompareCargoRatings "insert variable 'type' somewhere here to pass it to the comparator");
17:50:56  <Samu> lel
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17:52:46  <Samu> @logs
17:52:46  <DorpsGek> Samu: https://webster.openttdcoop.org/index.php?channel=openttd
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17:53:47  <Wolf01> Heh, imgur broken
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17:57:33  <Samu> what's a functor
17:58:49  <LordAro> Samu: google
17:59:03  <LordAro> Samu: however, i'm not sure there is actually a good solution with <C++11
17:59:13  <LordAro> nontrivially, anyway
17:59:19  <LordAro> a global variable would work
17:59:41  <Samu> hmm go easy on me, a global variable, like how :(
18:00:04  <LordAro> as in, declare a variable (CargoType or w/e) outside of a function
18:00:08  <LordAro> and refer to it that way
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18:00:24  <LordAro> it's not good, but i can't actually think of another way to do it with qsort
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18:02:12  <as> a
18:02:21  <LordAro> b
18:02:26  <as> as
18:03:13  <Samu> CargoID this_is_a_global_variable;
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18:03:28  <Samu> return (*b)->goods[this_is_a_global_variable].rating - (*a)->goods[this_is_a_global_variable].rating;
18:03:41  <Samu> let's see what happens
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18:05:02  <as> is still updated openttd?
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18:07:07  <Samu> that seems tohave worked
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18:09:11  <as> ok
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18:09:42  <Samu_> do i relly have to use QSortT? isn't GSortT better?
18:09:51  <Samu_> at least I understand what it's doing
18:10:12  <LordAro> those are not equivalent :p
18:10:29  <LordAro> qsort is an implementation of quicksort, that is in nearly all cases faster than gnome sort
18:10:40  <LordAro> you should only use GSort if you know that you need to
18:13:03  <as> you know if some servers will organize tournament soon
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18:18:58  <Samu> sorry my internet today is doing weird stuff
18:23:54  <Samu> yeah, global variable was just what I needed, thx
18:24:28  <Samu> static CargoID cargotype;
18:24:32  <Samu> is it static?
18:24:36  <Samu> static inline?
18:24:48  <Samu> nop
18:26:20  <Samu> not really sure about QSortT vs GSortT, they seem to produce the same result
18:26:26  <Samu> i'll leave it as QSort
18:26:30  <Samu> QSortT
18:31:32  <LordAro> Samu: of course they produce the same result
18:31:42  <LordAro> what on earth did you expect?
18:31:57  <LordAro> if your sorting is nondeterministic, you have problems
18:32:28  <Samu> the code of qsort looks much larger
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18:32:37  <Samu> in comparison to GSortT
18:33:09  <LordAro> so?
18:33:36  <Samu> it does more things
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18:34:32  <LordAro> Samu: go look up sort algorithms
18:34:43  <LordAro> and time complexity
18:35:06  <Samu> GSortT is about 40 lines, the other is 380 lines of code
18:35:51  <LordAro> so?
18:36:02  <LordAro> while(true) {}
18:36:08  <LordAro> one line of code
18:36:11  <LordAro> not very fast
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18:39:05  <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pxwjx24zl this is qsort
18:40:50  <LordAro> what is your point?
18:40:54  <Samu> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p1xjx4tqv GSortT
18:41:04  <Samu> it's much easier to follow GsortT
18:41:04  <LordAro> i am quite capable of reading source code
18:41:21  <Samu> i dunno, seems too complex to be quicker
18:43:29  <LordAro> you should look inside some other standard library files some time
18:43:46  <LordAro> of course they're complicated, they're highly optimised
18:43:53  <LordAro> whereas gsort is not
18:45:46  <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r27930 trunk/src/lang/simplified_chinese.txt (2017-11-02 19:45:39 +0100 )
18:45:47  <DorpsGek> -Update from Eints:
18:45:48  <DorpsGek> chinese (simplified): 2 changes by yfdyh000
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18:58:06  <andythenorth> o/
18:59:00  <frosch123> boo
18:59:59  <supermop> ok i think i have it so gourds only vary on 9 variables now
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19:00:28  <supermop> should be pretty easy to manually look through millions to find 20 or so that look best
19:01:09  <andythenorth> write an AI to do it ;)
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19:03:18  <supermop> wife suggested genetic algorithm
19:03:34  <supermop> and grasshopper comes with evolutionary solver
19:03:48  <Samu> anyway, now that I got all stations sorted by rating
19:03:55  <Samu> what to do next hmm :)
19:04:06  <Samu> must thikn
19:04:29  <supermop> but hard to define fitness for 'some bumpy, some smooth, basically looking like a variety of gourds'
19:04:53  <supermop> unless you have already trained something on millions of photos of gourds
19:05:10  <supermop> if i had a million photos of gourds, wouldn't need to generate them
19:06:02  <supermop> Samu: want to write an AI to select nice looking autumnal decorative gourds?
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19:08:21  <Samu> what?
19:08:47  <Samu> i don't know how to write an AI
19:12:15  * andythenorth got a new computer
19:12:22  <andythenorth> compile is still super slow though :P
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19:17:26  <andythenorth> should I add tyres? o_O
19:17:27  <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown
19:18:25  <ST2> andythenorth: and engines... how do you make vehicles xD
19:18:49  <andythenorth> vehicle parts
19:18:58  <andythenorth> from the foundry
19:19:04  <ST2> fair enough :)
19:19:18  <andythenorth> I tried 'powertrain components' for a while, was weird, dunno why
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21:52:03  <andythenorth> can I delete Food?
21:52:09  <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/economies.html#steeltown
21:52:13  <andythenorth> then I can add Tyres
21:52:43  <Wolf01> Replace it with tyres, deliver tyres to people homes
21:52:47  <Samu> :)
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22:01:42  <frosch123> andythenorth: i wondered whether vehicled bodies should be renamed to sheet metal
22:02:04  <frosch123> wondering about vehicle graphics for it
22:02:18  <andythenorth> they are trucks with blacked out windows :)
22:02:29  <andythenorth> it used to be galvanised steel
22:02:33  <frosch123> also, what cargo has the TE_WATER?
22:02:37  <andythenorth> dunno :)
22:02:53  <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/firs/push/LATEST/docs/html/code_reference.html#cargos
22:02:55  <frosch123> pipe? :p
22:03:06  <andythenorth> ha
22:03:10  <andythenorth> none currently :P
22:03:23  <andythenorth> TE is probably quite broken in FIRS
22:03:34  <andythenorth> I haven't paid attention to it
22:03:47  <frosch123> so, you already broke tropic
22:03:55  <frosch123> also break arctic by removing food?
22:04:11  <frosch123> vehicles can take the role
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22:06:30  <andythenorth> I should unbreak tropic eh :P
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22:07:21  <frosch123> anyway, the main argument for/against raising the cargo limit seems to be whether it is good or bad for andy's health
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22:12:33  <andythenorth> 32 is very good
22:13:04  <andythenorth> I never wish for more
22:13:15  <andythenorth> whereas I often wish for 3 output cargos
22:13:29  <supermop> oops
22:14:02  <supermop> broke grasshopper with myriads of gourds
22:14:16  <frosch123> ok, 8 input, 8 output? or other numbers?
22:14:29  <frosch123> any other kind of effect?
22:14:29  <andythenorth> 3 input, 3 output
22:14:49  <andythenorth> effect?
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22:15:16  <frosch123> in the past we talked about electricity, but in the end it was not considered good
22:15:29  <andythenorth> V453000 also talked about electricity
22:15:44  <andythenorth> I would do electricity per tile :P
22:15:49  <andythenorth> or per region of tiles
22:15:49  <frosch123> afaik noone used the things that were added to make industries talk between each other
22:16:06  <andythenorth> industries can talk between each other? :o
22:16:12  <frosch123> per town
22:16:27  <frosch123> industries within a town can talk to each other
22:16:36  <andythenorth> I thought it was deleted from spec
22:17:08  <frosch123> town persistent storage was implemented like 5 years ago :p but i do not recall ever being used
22:17:12  <andythenorth> maybe I looked in wrong places in docs
22:17:21  <andythenorth> I looked recently, I had silly ideas
22:18:03  <andythenorth> maybe here https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Storages#Persistent_storage
22:18:43  <andythenorth> ok, so it does exist
22:18:52  * andythenorth might have to revisit silly ideas
22:19:43  <andythenorth> means electricity and gas are possible
22:27:34  <andythenorth> also bed
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22:55:47  <Samu> how do I iterate backwards? :(
22:55:53  <Samu> from End() to Begin() ?
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23:32:03  <Wolf01> 'night
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