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00:08:35 <Samu> 75% life gone in a combo = BALANCE! 00:14:51 <Samu> dead chat? :( 00:16:31 <ST2> maybe here people sleep - well, we have 2 players that decided start 2rd WW - so, chats are not dead xD 00:16:37 <ST2> 3rd* 00:17:16 *** Snail has joined #openttd 00:17:41 <Samu> :) 00:24:18 *** TigerbotHesh has quit IRC 00:27:43 *** TigerbotHesh has joined #openttd 00:30:31 *** JacobD88 has quit IRC 00:34:46 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:45:13 *** RafiX2 has quit IRC 00:49:12 <Samu> well, cyas goodnight 00:49:17 *** Samu has quit IRC 01:02:58 *** Thedarkb1 has quit IRC 01:06:21 <Rybeast> Why might my tram have atopped moving? It's just sat there. I've deleted track and asked it to 'skip orders' but nothing is happening 01:06:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the end of the line and no turning loop? 01:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> or you have ridiculous timetable wait time 01:07:21 <Rybeast> No, the track is all lined up 01:07:48 <Rybeast> I don't think I've timetabled any stoppage time. ITt isn't at a station! 01:08:26 <Eddi|zuHause> try to hit the reverse button 01:08:53 <Rybeast> isn't doing anything 01:08:57 <Rybeast> may have to use the cheat 01:09:07 <Eddi|zuHause> screenshot? 01:09:18 <Eddi|zuHause> still think it's missing track 01:09:44 <Rybeast> but all the other trams are travelling where this tram is stuck 01:14:35 <Rybeast> fml 01:16:58 <Eddi|zuHause> funny memes library? 01:17:53 <Rybeast> yes 01:21:55 *** Rybeast has quit IRC 01:23:39 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 01:25:21 *** Thedarkb1 has joined #openttd 01:51:59 *** Guest1699 has quit IRC 01:52:08 *** ATMunn has joined #openttd 01:52:46 *** ATMunn is now known as Guest1757 01:56:29 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 01:57:10 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 02:09:55 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 02:13:16 *** bwn has joined #openttd 02:15:42 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 02:16:50 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 02:17:33 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 02:19:22 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 02:21:25 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 03:25:08 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1763 03:25:10 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 03:28:42 *** Guest1763 has quit IRC 03:44:12 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1765 03:44:14 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 03:48:12 *** Guest1765 has quit IRC 04:10:47 *** glx has quit IRC 04:33:28 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 05:14:31 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 05:14:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 05:21:13 *** tokai has quit IRC 05:50:22 *** tycoondemon has quit IRC 06:03:45 *** roidal has joined #openttd 06:07:03 *** Cubey has quit IRC 06:26:00 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 06:48:09 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:51:32 *** Celestar has joined #openttd 06:57:18 *** Celestar1 has quit IRC 07:13:18 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 07:14:55 *** Snail has quit IRC 07:42:08 *** Guest1757 has quit IRC 07:50:12 *** ATMunn has joined #openttd 07:50:47 *** ATMunn is now known as Guest1776 08:01:13 *** Guest1776 has quit IRC 08:03:55 <andythenorth> o/ 08:06:57 *** synchris has joined #openttd 09:12:53 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 09:13:03 <Wolf01> o/ 09:25:30 *** RafiX has joined #openttd 09:25:36 *** Borg has joined #openttd 09:28:01 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 09:44:40 <andythenorth> hi Wolf01 09:44:44 <andythenorth> cat catenary? 09:44:55 <Wolf01> Already doing it 09:48:20 *** Progman has joined #openttd 09:51:07 *** ATMunn has joined #openttd 09:51:37 *** ATMunn is now known as Guest1779 09:55:40 <Wolf01> Good, at least now I made it compile without crashing :P 09:56:16 *** EarthlingKira has joined #openttd 09:57:58 <EarthlingKira> Good morning, I'm new here :3 09:58:17 <Wolf01> Hi 09:59:07 <EarthlingKira> OpenTTD has the nicest C++ code I've seen in an open-source game project to this day (even though I haven't looked into that many) 09:59:28 <Wolf01> Lol :D 09:59:47 <EarthlingKira> Why is that funny? 10:00:18 <EarthlingKira> Do you think it has bad code? You always should compare relative to other experiences :D 10:00:31 <Wolf01> I've seen better code, but yes, the parts I can understand well and change are enough well done 10:00:44 <EarthlingKira> Better code in open source game projects? 10:01:01 <EarthlingKira> If so please tell me (just to have a look and maybe learn a thing or two) 10:04:08 *** Guest1779 has quit IRC 10:04:12 <Wolf01> OTTD is the only open source "game" I follow, other projects I've put my hands one were designed in a different way 10:04:15 <Wolf01> *on 10:06:00 *** ATMunn_ has joined #openttd 10:06:23 <EarthlingKira> Yes, I surely also know better code in other projects which are either developed by a tight-knit group (like a company dev team) or are not game projects 10:13:56 <LordAro> EarthlingKira: OTTD's code can be pretty hairy. it's totally consistent, which is nice, but ultimately the codebase is still mostly C (given that's what it used to be) and a hell of a lot of globals 10:19:29 *** ATMunn- has joined #openttd 10:20:58 *** Arveen has quit IRC 10:21:38 *** ATMunn_ has quit IRC 10:24:02 <Wolf01> Heh, I just noticed I want a "pipette" tool to activate a road building tool based on what there is on the tile I'm hovering, with NRT (and railtypes) it will come really handy 10:24:55 <Wolf01> It might be a problem on tiles with level crossings or 2 different roadtypes, but in all other cases it should be easy 10:25:20 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen a cities syklines lets play where the guy constantly complained that there's no pipette tool 10:25:45 <Eddi|zuHause> if there are multiple types, you just cycle throught hem? 10:25:47 <Wolf01> Too much F got me used to these bad ideas :( 10:26:00 <Wolf01> Yeah, good suggestion Eddi 10:27:35 <Wolf01> Ok, now I got rid of all the occurrencies of the check for road catenary and moved all of them in a single function 10:28:03 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 10:28:04 <Wolf01> So I can change the behaviour in a single place 10:32:48 <andythenorth> got a commit? 10:32:49 <andythenorth> o_O 10:32:52 <Wolf01> Not yer 10:33:01 <Wolf01> *yet 10:33:18 <andythenorth> I'll draw ships then 10:34:13 <Wolf01> Ok, I can commit now 10:40:19 *** Breckett has joined #openttd 10:40:50 <Wolf01> Slow connection is slow 10:44:30 <andythenorth> do we have test grfs? o_O 10:44:41 <andythenorth> supermop: trolleybi has catenary eh? 10:45:11 <Wolf01> Branch: both-catenaries 10:45:24 <Wolf01> Yes, checking with trolleybi 10:45:37 *** Arveen has joined #openttd 10:51:23 <Borg> aaaaaaaaaaaa 10:51:40 <Borg> anyone know if.. and how.. to change GS settings via console? 10:52:02 *** Arveen2 has joined #openttd 10:53:15 <EarthlingKira> @all for players who like to make rather short cargo routes (and not be forced to make long routes, but still be able to do it) I've created balance patches: 10:53:19 <EarthlingKira> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=82467 10:53:55 <andythenorth> lose money on short routes? :o 10:54:00 * andythenorth never has that problem :) 10:54:30 <andythenorth> how short is short? 10:54:35 <EarthlingKira> I've actually not yet found a patch or NewGRF who's done it like that. I've only found a NewGRF to limit maximum payments to a fixed distance (which sucks, sometimes you have to make long routes) and I've found a NewGRF which has linear payments for every distance (this also sucks, bus stations 2 tiles away give too much profit) 10:54:42 <EarthlingKira> @andythenorth I'm talking about like 3-5 tiles 10:55:24 <EarthlingKira> Or transporting coal 10 tiles away with trucks also made me loose money. (4% inflation, high maintenance costs, infrastructure maintenance enabled) 10:55:30 <andythenorth> ok, I would think 'short' is about 10 tiles 10:55:36 <andythenorth> you have inflation on? 10:55:38 <EarthlingKira> Yes 10:55:40 <andythenorth> inflation is a bug 10:55:57 <EarthlingKira> And inflation is coupled to loan interest says the setting description 10:56:02 <EarthlingKira> Nah, I like inflation 10:56:03 <andythenorth> if had trunk commit rights, inflation would be deleted 10:56:04 <Wolf01> andythenorth: wires are a pixel mess :D but at least you can see both poles for road and tram 10:56:28 *** Arveen has quit IRC 10:56:32 <Wolf01> We are lucky you don't have commit rights ;) 10:56:49 <EarthlingKira> @andythenorth do you have high maintenance costs and infrastructure maintenance enabled then? 10:57:05 <andythenorth> no 10:57:15 <andythenorth> also I play with my own newgrfs 10:57:27 <EarthlingKira> Ah well sure then you can make a profit with routes ~ 10 tiles :D 10:57:55 <EarthlingKira> I really like my small city bus lines with stations everywhere and I want them to make some money 10:58:55 <andythenorth> my bus stops are about 10-12 tiles apart 11:00:07 <EarthlingKira> What about the houses inbetween? 11:00:21 <Wolf01> I try to make bus stops so catchement areas don't overlap :P 11:00:32 <EarthlingKira> It has only 3 catchment area tiles, right? 11:00:51 <EarthlingKira> [A][a][a][a][b][b][b][B] 11:00:56 <EarthlingKira> That would be 7 tiles distance 11:00:56 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 11:00:57 <andythenorth> I was counting manhattan distance ;) 11:01:01 <EarthlingKira> (or 8?) 11:01:10 <Eddi|zuHause> 7 11:01:16 <EarthlingKira> are you letting your buses drive zigzag in case? :D 11:01:27 <andythenorth> just the shape of the town 11:02:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i ususlly put my stops closer 11:02:19 <andythenorth> anyway GL EarthlingKira 11:02:20 <andythenorth> :) 11:02:30 <andythenorth> all attempts to nerf distance payment have been resisted 11:02:39 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd 11:04:08 <Wolf01> So, did you try it, andythenorth? 11:04:15 <Wolf01> It = the cat 11:04:17 <andythenorth> Wolf01: have you pushed one that draws both>? 11:04:21 <Wolf01> Yes 11:04:24 <andythenorth> I've got the de-duplicated commit 11:04:27 <peter1138> Hmm, do I really want to download 739 MB just for... audio drivers? 11:04:30 <andythenorth> but I only see one catenary 11:05:10 <Wolf01> It contains both, strange 11:05:42 <Wolf01> Check road_cmd.cpp:1474 11:05:52 <andythenorth> defers to whichever was built first I think 11:06:02 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 11:06:07 <Borg> EarthlingKira: in city transportation is usually donated from city officials dude 11:06:12 <Borg> its never profitable ;) 11:06:16 <Wolf01> It just draws road and then tram 11:06:29 <Wolf01> Tram is always on top of road one 11:06:37 <andythenorth> ok 11:06:41 <andythenorth> I try more grfs 11:06:43 <Borg> go to multiplauer server.. find mogul who asks for city grow.. and he will donate you some cash :D 11:07:51 <Wolf01> https://imgur.com/a/JKaFE 11:08:00 <andythenorth> ok I can see it 11:08:22 <andythenorth> but not like that 11:08:28 <andythenorth> wonder if I have different unspooled 11:08:38 <Wolf01> Grey on grey is a bit hard to see 11:08:48 <andythenorth> I have v2 unspooled 11:08:54 <andythenorth> the poles seem to overlap 11:09:33 <Wolf01> I have.. I wonder which version :D 11:09:44 <EarthlingKira> @andythenorth Thank you, I don't think that this patch should go into trunk (although I could imagine it being based on a setting) 11:10:05 <EarthlingKira> And the patch doesn't just reduce distance payments, it rather changes the algorithm to be partially logarithmic 11:10:16 <EarthlingKira> Earn more on short distances, less on long distances 11:11:46 <andythenorth> Wolf01: can you DM me the version of unspooled you have? 11:11:56 <EarthlingKira> 2 years ago I already patched my own game and used a real logarithm but then I've seen that I can't use doubles/floats because of desync possibilities m( 11:13:13 <EarthlingKira> Oh and I have one final patch @channel 11:13:16 <EarthlingKira> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=82468 11:13:40 <EarthlingKira> I did not want a complete breakdown system overhaul like other patches do... I just wanted the chance algorithm and reduced breakdown chance settings to make more sense 11:14:11 <EarthlingKira> So this is just a small tweak to the original chance calculation algorithm which makes it *MUCH* more enjoyable and reliability actually changes things now 11:14:37 <EarthlingKira> And reduced breakdown chance no longer causes vehicles between 60% and 100% reliability to behave exactly the same... 11:14:37 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 11:15:34 <Wolf01> Meh, I have 0.005bps upload 11:16:19 <Wolf01> andythenorth: check forum PM 11:17:28 <Borg> honestly.. prospecting algoritm should be fixed.. so it will not place production and raw industries close to each other 11:17:38 <Wolf01> (I hope it was uploaded fine) 11:18:49 <andythenorth> Wolf01: got it 11:19:03 <andythenorth> still don't see separate poles 11:19:07 <andythenorth> but both wires are drawn 11:19:24 <Wolf01> Did you try with all different roadtypes? 11:19:30 <andythenorth> the poles are drawn 11:19:32 <andythenorth> they just overlap 11:19:37 <Wolf01> Strange 11:19:41 <andythenorth> sprite inspector finds them 11:19:51 <andythenorth> ok so it probably works eh 11:19:59 <andythenorth> think it's good 11:20:54 <andythenorth> ok found a non-overlapping type 11:21:04 <andythenorth> works 11:21:09 <andythenorth> so what authors need to do is 11:21:26 <andythenorth> don't try and differentiate wires 11:21:33 <andythenorth> use the poles, preferably colour-themed 11:21:37 <andythenorth> will be fine 11:21:41 <Wolf01> +1 11:21:51 <andythenorth> poles are much more legible + different 11:21:54 <andythenorth> wires are blah 11:22:08 <Wolf01> Wires are a line of grey pixels on grey 11:22:11 <andythenorth> they barely show anyway because of tram rails 11:22:26 <andythenorth> so unspooled does it fine 11:22:41 <andythenorth> I reckon merge that 11:22:49 <andythenorth> it's just drawing code? 11:22:53 <Wolf01> Yes 11:22:53 <andythenorth> no savegame or anything? 11:23:09 <Wolf01> Just drawing code 11:23:15 <EarthlingKira> Btw, one final question regarding my patches: How's the process in case they are trunk-worthy, who would decide that? I'm willing to create boolean options and settings with parameters to change the magnitudes :) 11:23:29 <andythenorth> cool, merge to road-and-tram-types 11:23:37 <andythenorth> EarthlingKira: currently no-one knows :) 11:23:50 <andythenorth> it's pretty much luck whether anything gets to trunk 11:24:04 <Wolf01> Are you sure? I would wait for frosch green light 11:24:47 *** Breckett has quit IRC 11:25:20 <Wolf01> Also I would make the patch better, merge the "DrawRoadCatenary" with "DrawCatenary" 11:31:49 *** Rybeast has joined #openttd 11:32:53 <Rybeast> Any ideas why one of my trams might have completely stopped and failed to work? I've checked timetabling, pathing, when some trams push past they're able to go in both ways the broken tram should go, but now there is a huge tailback and I don't know how to rectify 11:33:23 <andythenorth> Wolf01: ok code review probably a good idea 11:33:31 <andythenorth> Rybeast: missing track piece? 11:33:34 <andythenorth> usually 11:34:49 <Rybeast> It's definitely not a missing track piece. Trams are still able to follow the exact path in all three ways 11:35:27 <andythenorth> is it stopped? 11:35:33 <Rybeast> yes 11:35:38 <Wolf01> It just stopped there with speed=0? 11:35:41 <andythenorth> red flag stopped? 11:36:00 <Rybeast> Doesn't seem to be. All the trams are green 11:36:22 <andythenorth> is it on a hill 11:36:23 <andythenorth> ? 11:36:32 <Rybeast> nope. on the flat 11:36:42 <andythenorth> is it broken down? 11:36:46 <Rybeast> nope 11:36:51 <Rybeast> jiust not moving 11:36:51 <Rybeast> at all 11:37:00 <andythenorth> "odd" 11:37:19 <Wolf01> I ran into this problem with NRT 11:37:20 <Rybeast> i wondered if I'd set timetabling up incorrectly, but it doesn't seem to be affected by my moving and editing timetabling 11:38:00 <Rybeast> NRT? 11:41:40 <Wolf01> A branch we are working on 11:41:49 <Wolf01> Did you change the grf? 11:44:59 <Rybeast> well, I added some last night, but I don't think I changed any, no 11:45:05 <Rybeast> haven't edited at all 11:45:27 <Wolf01> But you changed active grfs in a running game? 11:46:17 <Rybeast> no 11:46:37 <Rybeast> they were there before I started 11:46:43 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 11:46:56 <Wolf01> Do you have a savegame of before the problem occours? 11:47:03 <Wolf01> Quak 11:47:24 <Rybeast> I don't think so, no 11:47:25 <Rybeast> lemme check 11:48:04 <Wolf01> frosch123: https://imgur.com/a/JKaFE made this, commission by andy :P 11:48:05 *** Cubey has quit IRC 11:50:54 <Rybeast> I do, but it doesn't show anything there either.Everything does what it should do. It was when I added the newer trams I guess, but I don't know why 11:53:37 <Wolf01> Could you replicate it without adding the new trams? 11:54:37 <Rybeast> I'm going to have a quick look now 11:55:18 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 11:55:37 <Wolf01> https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=82346 lol, why people needs to write like that? 11:56:54 <frosch123> it was christmas 12:01:40 <andythenorth> Wolf01: so just town roads to solve now? 12:01:47 <andythenorth> everything else is blah blah 12:01:47 <Wolf01> Yes 12:01:58 <Wolf01> And fix scenario editor 12:02:14 <Wolf01> There's already a branch for that 12:03:22 <Wolf01> But that does a lot more, so I'll need to extract a part and apply it to the base branch 12:03:52 <EarthlingKira> Btw, do you think a rework of the advertisement campaigns make sense, i.e. does anyone use them? 12:04:43 <Wolf01> I used it 2 or 3 times 12:04:56 <EarthlingKira> They actually sometimes make sense in ECS to increase production rate of factories 12:05:07 <EarthlingKira> But otherwise the effect is gone too fast 12:07:26 <EarthlingKira> I think the effect of a large advertisement campaign should stay for 3 or 6 months and have a larger radius 12:08:20 * Wolf01 -> lunch 12:08:58 <EarthlingKira> I think the advertisement system should be balanced around the idea that you can *actually* increase your revenue with doing non-stop advertisements 12:09:11 <EarthlingKira> (when you have lots of stations in/around a certain city) 12:09:19 <andythenorth> frosch123: I thought this was a graphviz issue, but on second-reading, it's a makefile problem? https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=1201195#p1201195 12:09:36 <andythenorth> the \ are noticeable... 12:12:17 <frosch123> well, windows, ¯¯\o/¯¯ 12:14:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: i guess your problem is bin/find-files 12:14:33 <frosch123> line 15 12:15:00 <frosch123> it thinks "\" is part of the name and no directory separator 12:15:16 <frosch123> and then escapes it 12:17:13 <frosch123> i don't think it is fixable without try-error on an actual windows system 12:17:28 <frosch123> noone can predict when those tools use / or \ 12:21:30 *** Ram-Z has left #openttd 12:23:50 <andythenorth> thanks 12:32:55 <Wolf01> On windows you should use / anyway 12:33:12 <andythenorth> I have NFI how to even start solving this :) 12:33:34 <andythenorth> I do have windows VM, but it's vanilla, no dev tools of any kind 12:33:39 <andythenorth> just for IE testing 12:33:55 <Wolf01> I have windows but it's bloated of dev tools 12:41:16 <EarthlingKira> @Wolf01 but that is because windows dev tools are bloated by themselves. Visual Studio up to 82 GiB install size m( 12:42:00 <Wolf01> Nah, I installed even more dev tools 12:45:59 <Wolf01> I was (am) a web developer, so I also have a lot of node, ruby, sass related stuff, php stuff too, android stuff (both VS xamarin and android studio) 12:46:57 <Wolf01> And a bit of asm and plc stuff 12:47:55 <EarthlingKira> Web development on Windows :'( I'm also (partially) a web developer, but I switched to Linux 10 years ago for coding and never looked back :3 12:48:54 <Wolf01> Now I use WLS to do things I didn't could do before, It was made exactly for that, so I don't even need to dualboot 12:53:03 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 13:05:42 *** Thedarkb1 has quit IRC 13:26:20 *** Rybeast has quit IRC 13:32:22 *** Thedarkb1 has joined #openttd 13:39:03 *** Samu has joined #openttd 13:39:05 <Samu> hi 13:40:00 <EarthlingKira> hi 13:49:27 <Samu> hmm patches to nerf stuff! 13:56:51 *** Jamesy has joined #openttd 13:57:36 <Jamesy> Hello. I've been setting my vehicles to have services every x days or when the percentage drops to y. The vehicles don't seem to be headed back to depot to be serviced however. How would I sort this? 13:58:16 <Samu> the depot might be too far away 13:58:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's "percentage drops <by> X (from the maximum)" 13:58:42 <Jamesy> But they all pass the depot between the two stations? 13:58:51 <Samu> are breakdowns enabled? 13:59:00 <Jamesy> yes 13:59:08 <Samu> well, then.... i dunno 13:59:16 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you set 80%, and the max is 93%, it would need to be 13% to trigger, or something 13:59:57 <Jamesy> so if my percentage was 60%, it could drop down to 33% before needing servicing? 13:59:58 <Samu> i think 15% is the ideal value 14:00:06 <Samu> the default of 50% is kinda ridiculous 14:01:22 <Jamesy> it is, but even then I have trains who have a reliability of 0 14:02:07 <Samu> hmm this might be something worth testing 14:02:07 <Jamesy> so i'm having to identify these trains and send t depot manually and adjust the servicing requirements 14:02:19 <Samu> hunting the ideal breakdown as a % value :p 14:03:00 <Jamesy> which makes sense, because the trains reliability can't drop any further, so is the game identifying that the train doesn't need servicing because it hasn't dropped by x in that time, even though it has dropped below the baseline already? 14:04:03 <Samu> do you have send to depot orders? 14:04:13 <Samu> they're not automatically serviced 14:06:00 <Samu> i feel like testing EarthlingKira patches 14:06:37 <Jamesy> I haven't put in 'send to depot' - if I do, is there an option to 'send if'? 14:08:59 <Samu> try "service at nearest depot" or "service at <input depot>" 14:09:00 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there is "service at depot" if you ctrl+click while placing 14:09:26 <Samu> when the vehicle executes that order, and it needs servicing, it will head to depot 14:09:34 <Eddi|zuHause> that means "go to depot, but only if servicing is needed" 14:09:35 <Samu> if it doesn't needs servicing, it just skips the order 14:12:16 <Jamesy> Can I set out a precedent to all my vehicles of that type? Like, I've got 18 freight trains running around? 14:12:45 *** roidal has quit IRC 14:13:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you can do shared orders 14:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause> so all 18 freight trains have a common order list 14:13:42 <Jamesy> Ooh, how do I do that? 14:13:44 <Eddi|zuHause> then all future changes will apply to all of them simultaneously 14:14:30 <Eddi|zuHause> you assign the orders to the first train like normal, and on the second train, you don't assign any station, but with the "go to" tool you ctrl+click on the first train 14:14:53 <Eddi|zuHause> (without ctrl it makes a copy of the order list, with ctrl it shares the order list) 14:15:26 <Jamesy> excellent, so by 'control clicking' I'll only need to do the one order? 14:22:49 <EarthlingKira> @Samu Feel free, and if you have suggestions I'm glad to hear them :) 14:25:28 <andythenorth> so who wants to patch FIRS for Windows then? o_O 14:31:53 *** Gja has joined #openttd 14:38:05 *** Montana_ has joined #openttd 14:43:16 <supermop> yo andythenorth what's this talk of poles? 14:43:24 <supermop> and do you need old versions? 14:43:35 <andythenorth> nah 14:43:35 <supermop> all versions should have same pole sprites tho 14:43:44 <Montana_> hi 14:44:04 <Montana_> i updated a translation for FIRS this morning 14:44:32 <Montana_> is that update automatically uploaded to FIRS repo? 14:44:47 <frosch123> yes 14:45:06 <frosch123> normally you also get a playable .grf at about 17:15 CET, but probably not today 14:45:12 *** Jamesy has quit IRC 14:45:57 *** Montana_ has quit IRC 14:46:22 <supermop> pole sprites do need some work 14:47:06 <supermop> and there is a bug with front most pole not showing on U tiles where the loop is at the lower left or right 14:47:08 <andythenorth> Montana has gone 14:47:14 <andythenorth> I am probably going to release FIRS today 14:48:41 *** Montana_ has joined #openttd 14:48:55 <Montana_> Sorry, internet connection interupted 14:49:14 <Montana_> but i did read your message Frosch 14:49:19 <Montana_> Thanks 14:49:28 <frosch123> [15:47] <andythenorth> I am probably going to release FIRS today 14:49:57 <Montana_> 3.0.2? 14:56:03 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:01:26 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 15:02:22 *** Montana_ has quit IRC 15:06:46 <Samu> testing the breakdown patch, i hope it screws aircraft 15:07:53 <EarthlingKira> @Samu My breakdown patch reduces the amount of breakdown occurrences, why should it screw aircraft? 15:08:21 <Samu> because they're imba 15:08:34 <EarthlingKira> Do you mean compared to playing without breakdowns? ;-) 15:08:42 <Samu> yes 15:10:58 <Samu> i'm unsure what this patch does, you say ships never breakdown if they had 60% 15:11:03 <Samu> intreesting 15:11:24 <EarthlingKira> Oops, maybe my wording is misleading 15:12:32 <Samu> ah, same reliability 15:12:34 <EarthlingKira> In the vanilla OpenTTD when playing with "reduced breakdowns" a ship with 60% reliability and a ship with 100% reliability will break exactly the same amount of time 15:12:47 <EarthlingKira> Oops, I mean 15:13:08 <EarthlingKira> Forget my last sentence :D 15:13:37 <EarthlingKira> A ship which has >= 60% reliability (so no matter if 60%, 80% or 100%) will not profit at all from "reduced breakdown chance" setting 15:14:04 <EarthlingKira> It will break exactly the same amount of time no matter if you have the setting enabled or not 15:14:40 <Samu> ah 15:15:50 <EarthlingKira> With my patch you a) really always have a reduced breakdown chance when that setting is enabled and b) reliability % has a much stronger effect on breakdown chance 15:15:53 <Samu> this is a bad timing for building openttd, i'm testing AIs at the same time :( 15:17:12 <EarthlingKira> And c) when playing with "reduced breakdowns" setting a train with 60% reliability now breaks more often than one with 100%, as you would expect 15:17:55 <EarthlingKira> In vanilla openttd with "reduced breakdown" setting trains from 60% to 100% and ships from 20% to 100% reliability are indistinguishable 15:18:36 <Samu> that seems strange 15:18:53 <EarthlingKira> I would really hope that that patch is merged into trunk, because I want to play with reduced breakdowns but still have a train with 60% reliability be worse than a train with 100%, right? 15:19:22 <Samu> i'm not sure if I follow you yet, but it peaked my interest 15:20:57 <EarthlingKira> Okay I explain the other way around: in vanilla OpenTTD: 15:21:12 <EarthlingKira> - ships always get a flat invisible 40% bonus to reliability 15:21:32 <Samu> if (v->type == VEH_SHIP) rel += 0x6666; 15:21:50 <EarthlingKira> - every vehicle/ship/airplane gets another flat invisible 40% bonus to reliability when "reduced breakdown" is active 15:22:32 <EarthlingKira> That means a train with 60% reliability has an effective reliability of 100% with that setting enabled, while a train with 100% reliability also has an effective reliability of 100% 15:22:38 <Samu> if (_settings_game.difficulty.vehicle_breakdowns == 1) rel += 0x6666; 15:22:41 <Samu> i see 15:23:37 <Samu> that is the part I still don't get it 15:23:59 <Samu> _breakdown_chance[(uint)min(rel, 0xffff) >> 10] 15:24:02 <Samu> is this it? 15:24:43 <EarthlingKira> the min(rel, 0xffff) basically says that the maximum reliability you can have is 100%, no matter how much was added before 15:25:07 <EarthlingKira> And the code around that part is to convert this big number into one that is used for the breakdown chance 15:26:44 <Samu> static const byte _breakdown_chance[64] = { 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10, 10, 11, 11, 12, 13, 13, 13, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 25, 28, 31, 34, 37, 40, 44, 48, 52, 56, 60, 64, 68, 72, 80, 90, 100, 110, 120, 130, 140, 150, 170, 190, 210, 230, 250, 250, 250, }; 15:26:49 <EarthlingKira> Yes that's the one 15:28:21 <EarthlingKira> you get a comparison value of 250 when you have 100% reliability and a comparison value of 3 when you have 0% reliability 15:29:19 <EarthlingKira> In vanilla OpenTTD the reliability only says how long it will take to reach the breakdown threshold 15:29:52 <EarthlingKira> So a higher reliability does not really decrease breakdown chance, it only takes longer (sounds like it's the same, but it's not :D) 15:31:49 <Borg> hmmm ... Cargo flow tool is invaluable tool now.. when using stockpiling industries :) 15:32:25 <Samu> @calc ffff >> 10 15:32:25 <DorpsGek> Samu: Error: 'ffff' is not a defined function. 15:32:29 <Samu> hmm k 15:32:30 *** Thedarkb1 has quit IRC 15:32:35 <Samu> @calc 0xffff >> 10 15:32:35 <DorpsGek> Samu: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number. 15:33:22 <Samu> whatever, my calcultator says that is = 0 15:33:39 <Samu> _breakdown_chance[0] = 3 ? 15:35:00 <Samu> 3 <= v->breakdown_chance 15:35:18 <EarthlingKira> 0xffff >> 10 = 63 15:35:40 <Samu> 63? meh, i fail at math 15:35:48 <EarthlingKira> I mean 64 15:35:53 <EarthlingKira> But it's 0-63 15:36:03 <EarthlingKira> So yes 63 in that case :D 15:36:21 <EarthlingKira> You probably did not deactivate hexadecimal mode when entering the value for rightshift into your calculator 15:36:26 <Samu> or, right I was doing 0x10, not the real 10 15:36:51 <EarthlingKira> @calc 65535 >> 10 15:36:51 <DorpsGek> EarthlingKira: Error: Something in there wasn't a valid number. 15:37:03 <Samu> _breakdown_chance[63] = 250 15:37:16 <EarthlingKira> Yep 15:38:39 <Samu> hmm ok, must investigate how is 'rel' calculated too 15:39:07 <EarthlingKira> I think rel is simply 100% = 0xffff and 0% = 0x0000 15:39:23 <EarthlingKira> It's the reliability 15:39:25 <Samu> rel = v->reliability 15:39:34 <Samu> if (v->type == VEH_SHIP) rel += 0x6666; 15:39:58 <Samu> if (_settings_game.difficulty.vehicle_breakdowns == 1) rel += 0x6666; 15:40:23 <Samu> I get it now 15:40:45 <EarthlingKira> Cool :3 15:41:26 <EarthlingKira> I don't like vanilla algorithm. I want to have less breakdowns but at the same time I want a train with 60% reliability to break more often than one with 100% 15:41:28 <Samu> it then compares with itself without the added bonus, weird 15:42:09 <Samu> ah nvm, im seeing this wrong 15:42:31 <Samu> there's v->reliability and v->breakdown_chance, two different things 15:42:34 <EarthlingKira> Yes :) 15:43:12 <EarthlingKira> Even though the naming is... well... misleading 15:43:53 <EarthlingKira> But with my patch the breakdown_chance actually acts like a real chance 15:44:04 *** Thedarkb1 has joined #openttd 15:44:47 <EarthlingKira> Personally the only thing I'd still like to add is (linearly) increased wear on vehicles based on current velocity 15:45:18 <EarthlingKira> Because when you use that system and have a "go to depot" order and have trains with 600 km/h, you have virtually no more breakdowns 15:45:56 <EarthlingKira> @Samu What's your opinion on that? 15:46:38 <EarthlingKira> (This would also fulfil your wish to screw airplanes :3) 15:46:56 <Samu> I'm still building, it's taking longer than I expected, think it's a bad time for testing this 15:47:07 <Samu> must finish my AI tests first 15:48:33 <Samu> i want a new cpu 15:48:40 <Samu> :) 15:49:15 <Samu> something that lets me test 8 AIs in 8 4096x4096 maps while building openttd in visual studio 15:51:36 <EarthlingKira> Ryzen Threadripper 15:56:15 <Samu> yeah, i thought of that, but then intel did some price drops, so i'm currently undecided. also my current rig is still doing fine, except when i start testing crazy stuff 15:56:27 <Samu> not sure if it's the right moment 15:56:43 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 15:57:28 <Samu> v->reliability is a uint16 15:57:34 *** Breckett has joined #openttd 15:57:36 <Samu> v->breakdown_chance is a byte 15:58:59 <Samu> int chance = v->breakdown_chance; 15:59:14 <Samu> i wonder if chance can sometimes be a negative value? :/ i fail at programming 16:00:01 <EarthlingKira> An int can be negative if you cause it to be negative, yes ;-) 16:00:49 <Samu> byte to int conversion 16:00:57 *** Snail has joined #openttd 16:01:27 <EarthlingKira> No, an int has more bits than a byte 16:02:16 <Samu> ah, so if v->breakdown_chance is 255 byte, int chance is 255 too, i see 16:02:35 <Samu> Programmer expert here! 16:02:39 <Samu> j/k 16:03:59 <Samu> i wonder what's the priority of visual studio, seems like idling... 16:04:22 <Samu> granted, I only got about ~5% cpu free 16:04:44 <Samu> taking so long to build 16:06:01 <Samu> (GB(r, 16, 8) <= v->breakdown_chance && GB(r, 16, 8) >= _breakdown_chance[(uint)min(rel, 0xffff) >> 10]) 16:06:13 <Samu> r = Random(); 16:08:25 <EarthlingKira> My patch combines the element of the vanilla algorithm that a minimum breakdown amount must have been accumulated and additionally applies some chance based on reliability to see if the vehicle should really breakdown 16:08:50 <supermop> EarthlingKira: interesting passenger patch 16:09:25 <Samu> the Random() is a biiig number 16:09:32 <Samu> uint32 16:10:53 <Samu> 1111 1111 XXXX XXXX 1111 1111 1111 1111 16:11:00 <Samu> you take those X 16:11:35 <Samu> that's a value from 0 to 255, right? 16:11:51 <EarthlingKira> @supermop Thanks :) I enjoy building PAX networks much more with that patch, small villages actually make a profit and big cities are no longer overloaded 16:12:17 <EarthlingKira> @Samu Right, this GB() thingie is just used to get smaller random numbers 16:13:15 <Samu> if the value is 0, it still breakdowns 16:13:36 *** Snail has quit IRC 16:13:43 <Samu> 0 <= 0 16:14:12 <Samu> && 0 >= 3 16:14:16 <Samu> nah, guess not 16:14:17 <EarthlingKira> :D 16:15:15 *** Snail has joined #openttd 16:15:51 <supermop> the problem is made worse by the town zone pattern too - 16:17:01 <supermop> as once a town gets very large, it is essentially primarily the densest zone by area, so the majority of houses are then producing the insane amount of passengers 16:17:19 <EarthlingKira> Yes :) You should try playing with my patch, it's much better :3 16:17:20 *** Snail has quit IRC 16:19:19 <Samu> my patches are ugly coded, but I like the ideas they provide ;p 16:19:25 <Samu> can u check some? 16:19:26 <Samu> lol 16:19:59 <Samu> ah, in the forum i go by the name of xarick 16:21:40 <Samu> ah, take a look at this one, it's messing with breakdowns, and probably needs better code in the breakdown code https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=76044 16:24:26 <EarthlingKira> Regarding code "quality" I'd say that it's not perfect that the aircraft specific code is mixed into the breakdown code which increases coupling ;-) 16:27:22 <EarthlingKira> I'd be interested to write really really good code and do some refactorings and increase some game design mechanics, but for that I'd need to know that it is potentially wanted and could be merged into trunk 16:41:17 <EarthlingKira> @Samu What exactly did you mean when you said check your patches? Do you want a rating, some improvement feedback, a code review or maybe even code improvements? ;-) 16:46:41 <Samu> all 16:46:43 <Samu> :) 16:48:19 <EarthlingKira> @supermop I've answered to your feedback, what do you think? :) 16:48:36 <Samu> it has finally built! testing the breakdown patch 16:48:40 <Samu> brb 16:48:59 <EarthlingKira> Are you testing with reduced breakdown rate or with normal breakdown rate setting? 16:49:32 <Samu> testing with reduced atm 16:49:51 <EarthlingKira> Okay :) I've tweaked it only for reduced setting :D 16:50:57 <EarthlingKira> normal breakdown setting still has the reliability chance effect, but I've not tested/tweaked it with this setting 16:57:20 <Samu> I got a trigger! 16:57:33 *** RafiX2 has joined #openttd 16:57:52 <Samu> 54 <= 58 && 54 >= 48 16:58:00 <Samu> BOOM, BREAKDOWN 16:59:30 *** RafiX has quit IRC 16:59:43 <Samu> GB(r, 16, 8) what exactly is this doing? it's a bit confusing 17:00:47 <Samu> r 406248016 unsigned int 17:00:55 <Samu> rel 43763 int 17:01:17 <Samu> sorry for noob question 17:02:29 <Samu> it's randomly getting a value from 0 to 255 17:02:41 <Samu> but... what's the intention 17:05:48 <LordAro> "random" is probably the wrong word there 17:05:52 <Samu> @calc 59/256 17:05:52 <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.23046875 17:06:20 <LordAro> GB is a very well used function, i'd recommend looking it up and working out what it's doing 17:06:38 <Samu> r = Random(); 17:06:43 <Samu> so it's random, kinda 17:07:13 <LordAro> ah right, i thought you were referring to GB 17:07:37 <Samu> the pseudo-random number generator thing 17:10:21 <Samu> i see that v->breakdown_chance can at times stay the same 17:10:43 <Samu> chance =+1 17:10:45 <Samu> is gone 17:12:20 <Samu> it was previously always adding 1 to v->breakdown_chance every day 17:13:25 *** Thedarkb1 has quit IRC 17:13:54 <Samu> I wonder... why do ships get special treatment :( 17:14:25 <EarthlingKira> @Samu I didn't want to change too much 17:14:38 <EarthlingKira> To differentiate from breakdown overhaul patches 17:17:01 <Samu> what will happen when reliability is 0% 17:17:19 <Samu> seems that reduced breakdowns will make them quite good, lol 17:17:58 <Samu> brb testing 17:39:36 <Samu> aha, it's finally starting to make sense for me 17:41:13 <Samu> EarthlingKira: wouldn't it make better sense to have a 0% reliability with reduced breakdowns to behave equal as a 0% reliability with normal breakdowns? 17:43:26 <Samu> just saying, in multiplayer servers, unmaintainced companies should have their old vehicles cannibalize the profits 17:47:42 <Samu> alright, let's compare 17:48:08 <Samu> 1.7.2 - 30 breakdowns in 3 years, 0 months 17:48:25 <Samu> patch - 30 breakdowns in 4 years, 3 months 17:48:37 <Samu> reduced breakdowns 17:49:53 *** m3henry has joined #openttd 17:50:00 *** Breckett has quit IRC 17:50:01 <m3henry> Evening 17:51:13 <EarthlingKira> @Samu That seems fair, doesm 17:51:18 <EarthlingKira> doesn't it* 17:51:43 <Samu> now i'm testing normal breakdowns, will take a while 17:52:17 <Samu> i think so 17:53:36 <Samu> from 100% to 0% reliability, it broke down 45 times, in 1.7.2 17:53:56 <Samu> from 100% to 0% reliability, it broke down 24 times, in patched 17:54:38 <Samu> waiting for 100 breakdowns 17:56:04 <m3henry> I'm never sure how I feel about breakdowns 17:57:08 <Samu> it feels too forgiving now 17:57:16 <m3henry> Sometimes I feel like they add depth and make descions more interesting, but they become rather annoying when density rises 17:57:57 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 17:58:23 <m3henry> If rolling stock pooling was a thing, then I could see it being very interesting 18:00:13 <Wolf01> frosch123, what do you think about drawing both the catenaries? Should we merge it to NRT? 18:03:09 <Samu> 1.7.2 - 100 breakdowns in 3 years, 8 months 18:03:24 <Samu> patch - 100 breakdowns in 7 years, 7 months 18:03:29 <Samu> normal breakdowns 18:04:06 <Samu> i think 0% reliability needs special care 18:04:13 <Samu> seems too forgiving now 18:05:16 <andythenorth> breakdowns are tedious 18:05:19 <andythenorth> I turn them off 18:05:35 <andythenorth> even on, they're trivially prevented by forced-servicing 18:06:12 <m3henry> I liked the idea of making breakdowns reduce the power output of engines when they happen 18:06:28 <m3henry> There was a patch floating around that did that 18:06:38 <m3henry> rather than a full stop 18:07:18 <frosch123> Wolf01: go ahead 18:07:22 <frosch123> makes it more visually clear 18:09:41 <Samu> patch - 30 breakdowns in 2 years, 9 months, reduced breakdowns 18:10:50 *** glx has joined #openttd 18:10:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 18:11:46 <Samu> strange, i had the impression it was breaking down more often when the reliability was not yet 0%, but close to 0 18:12:25 <Samu> how can I quantify this :( 18:12:29 <Wolf01> I cleaned it up a bit, renamed functions too 18:14:22 <Wolf01> Merge in progress 18:15:40 <Wolf01> Cat is done, andythenorth should be happy 18:18:53 <andythenorth> Wolf01: nice 18:19:03 <andythenorth> now just town crap :) 18:19:21 <Wolf01> And fixes 18:19:24 *** Thedarkb1 has joined #openttd 18:19:51 <andythenorth> Is there a proposed implementation for town? 18:19:59 <andythenorth> there are a few ways it could be done 18:20:34 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 18:21:05 <andythenorth> - take ownership 18:21:09 <andythenorth> - don't take ownership 18:21:26 <andythenorth> - allow build if compatible with ROAD 18:21:31 <andythenorth> - allow building any 18:22:35 <Wolf01> Also there is default road for towns 18:24:05 <Wolf01> I don't know what could happen if a grf disables standard road 18:32:20 <Samu> [18:09] <Samu> patch - 30 breakdowns in 2 years, 9 months, reduced breakdowns* 18:32:30 <Samu> i meant normal breakdowns, sorry 18:32:37 <Samu> not reduced 18:33:53 <EarthlingKira> > patch - 100 breakdowns in 7 years, 7 months 18:33:59 <EarthlingKira> Was this with reduced breakdown setting or normal? 18:34:29 <andythenorth> Wolf01: I could make a grf that tests disabling standard ROAD 18:34:33 <andythenorth> not sure how right now 18:36:55 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 18:37:14 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 18:38:10 <Samu> that was with normal 18:38:31 <Samu> i started a bus with 100% reliability, then removed depot 18:38:53 <Samu> so, the majority of breakdowns was with 0% reliability 18:39:49 <Samu> from 100% to 0% it broke down 24 times 18:40:08 <Samu> let me time how long it takes to go from 100% to 0%, brb 18:40:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 18:42:50 <Samu> @calc 65535 / 80 18:42:50 <DorpsGek> Samu: 819.1875 18:42:57 <Samu> meh, 819 days 18:44:56 *** Biolunar has quit IRC 18:45:09 <Samu> 2 years, 4 months, i think 18:45:26 <Samu> @calc 2 * 12 * 30 + 4 * 30 18:45:26 <DorpsGek> Samu: 840 18:45:33 <Samu> yeah... seems to be that 18:53:53 <supermop> Wolf01: presumable it would just fall back to whatever gets first defined then 18:54:38 <supermop> like if you disable all default houses, and have your first house from 1950, 2nd in 1960, etc 18:55:08 <supermop> you can still start a game in 1500, just all the houses will be the 1950 one (theater 'bug') 18:56:23 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 18:58:26 <Wolf01> I think it crashes or do weird things, cities expect a ROADTYPE_ROAD:SUBTYPE_NORMAL which is 0:0 18:58:51 <Samu> holy crap, trAIns is upgrading from monorail to maglev, it's that time again, but he got 500 trains, crazy 18:59:08 <Samu> upgrading one at a time is kinda slow 19:01:13 <Samu> down to 6 trains, what a crazy amount if irresponsibility 19:01:55 <Samu> of* 19:09:47 <supermop> Wolf01 i guess its a matter of making it more flexible in its expectations? 19:10:05 <Wolf01> Yes, but I lack of ideas 19:10:29 <supermop> or make it possible to redefine but not disable ROAD 19:10:56 <supermop> it seems like road types could have a property "is town road" 19:10:58 <Wolf01> The problem to redefine road is that you can make it incompatible with road 19:10:59 <Wolf01> :P 19:11:14 <supermop> if =1 town builds it 19:11:57 <supermop> if there are 16 that =1 maybe town still just builds the first, but any others so built will still get houses etc 19:12:47 <Wolf01> Yes, that could be an idea, when a town is found it choses randomly between those =1 and builds that one for the rest of the game 19:13:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i would propose that a town reruns that check regularly, and can pick a new roadtype to build once more get available 19:13:56 <supermop> additionally the townroad value could be not binary, but 0-7 or 0-255 19:14:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, an automatic ranking, or grf author can provide one 19:14:27 <supermop> and 0 = town doesn't building 19:14:30 *** m3henry has quit IRC 19:14:57 <supermop> else, town builds either the lowest (or maybe highest) value available 19:15:29 <Eddi|zuHause> town growth algorithm might want to replace existing roads with a new type 19:15:59 <supermop> if two are equal it either picks at random or based on order in which defined 19:16:15 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be deterministic 19:16:21 <supermop> sure 19:16:29 <supermop> that's fine by me 19:17:04 <supermop> author doesn't provide a value it gets 1 or whatever automatically 19:17:28 <supermop> or gets the value of its place order in definition 19:17:35 *** Rybeast has joined #openttd 19:18:33 <Rybeast> Hello! Sorry to be here again. Game failed to save - compressor initialisation failure - ideas? 19:19:43 <Samu> which compressor? 19:20:26 <Rybeast> It didn't say. JUst said game failed to save - compressor initialisation failure 19:21:17 <Samu> hmm, does it have write access? :( 19:21:36 <Samu> gonna check what causes that error 19:21:39 <Rybeast> it's the only time it's failed to save at all :( 19:22:18 <Rybeast> I've just force quit the game and re-opened, but it says the save file has an error? 'Lilbizma returned error code' 19:22:37 <Borg> % git grep -E '.*init.*failure.*' 19:22:38 <Borg> % 19:22:40 <Borg> well.... 19:23:02 <Borg> I dont see such an error 19:23:19 <andythenorth> how about authors just don't disable ROAD? 19:23:23 <andythenorth> unless it's intended 19:23:27 <andythenorth> no guards, no checks 19:23:32 <andythenorth> I can 'break' all industries if I want 19:23:37 <andythenorth> nothing in spec stops m 19:23:39 <andythenorth> me 19:24:12 <Rybeast> It ran until 2040 if that is worth anything? 19:24:24 <Samu> okay it failed to initialize lzma, that's something 19:24:31 <Samu> doo bee doo, brb 19:24:38 *** Borg has quit IRC 19:24:59 <andythenorth> unix not lisp 19:25:52 <Samu> if (lzma_easy_encoder(&this->lzma, compression_level, LZMA_CHECK_CRC32) != LZMA_OK) SlError(STR_GAME_SAVELOAD_ERROR_BROKEN_INTERNAL_ERROR, "cannot initialize compressor"); 19:26:22 <Rybeast> Pardon? 19:26:31 <frosch123> if no ROAD, towns cannot build road, game does not start 19:26:36 <frosch123> same as when no houses are available 19:26:40 <Rybeast> What would have caused it to fail though? AS I say, it's been working the whole way 19:27:22 <supermop> frosch123 that works, but maybe its more fun to have alternatives to road? 19:27:25 <Samu> seems that during compression, something got corrupted? 19:27:40 <Samu> du u have ram issues or ? 19:27:48 <Rybeast> don't think so? 19:28:20 <frosch123> supermop: a different appearance is still ROAD 19:29:36 <Samu> I wish which error it got :( 19:29:43 <Samu> it wasn't the LZMA_OK 19:29:52 <andythenorth> loading a grf without ROAD is a bug 19:30:04 <Samu> LZMA_MEM_ERROR ? 19:30:04 <andythenorth> bug / user error /s 19:30:11 <Samu> LZMA_OPTIONS_ERROR 19:30:16 <Samu> LZMA_UNSUPPORTED_CHECK 19:30:22 <Samu> LZMA_PROG_ERROR 19:30:50 <Samu> meh, all i know is that it was not the LZMA_OK, it was one of those 3 19:31:02 <Samu> those 4 19:31:37 <Samu> - LZMA_MEM_ERROR: Memory allocation failed. I suspect it was this 19:31:55 <Samu> buy moar ram 19:32:03 <Samu> run 64-bit of openttd, etc. lol 19:32:18 <Rybeast> it's a brand new MacBook 19:32:22 <Rybeast> only 16 months old 19:32:51 <Samu> oh, i don't have a mac, i guess it could be something else 19:33:56 <Rybeast> :( Got to 2040 and built some amazing lines :/ 19:35:28 <andythenorth> supermop: CC is a good idea 19:36:03 <Samu> LZMA_OK: Initialization succeeded. Use lzma_code() to * encode your data. 19:36:11 <Samu> LZMA_MEM_ERROR: Memory allocation failed. 19:36:18 <Samu> LZMA_OPTIONS_ERROR: The given compression preset is not * supported by this build of liblzma. 19:36:26 <Samu> unlikely to be this one 19:36:38 <Samu> LZMA_UNSUPPORTED_CHECK: The given check type is not * supported by this liblzma build. 19:36:55 <Samu> also unlikely, it's using LZMA_CHECK_CRC32 19:36:57 <LordAro> Samu: say something useful instead of listing the enumeration values 19:37:15 <Samu> LZMA_PROG_ERROR: One or more of the parameters have values * that will never be valid. For example, strm == NULL. 19:37:26 <Samu> meh, ok LordAro 19:37:50 <Samu> i doubt the stream was null 19:37:55 <Samu> so hmm... 19:38:46 <Rybeast> it's fine I guess. No way I'm going to get the level back, is there? 19:39:03 <LordAro> autosave is usually enabled by default... 19:39:05 <Samu> it failed to compress 19:40:00 <Rybeast> I've looked at the autosave folder - nothing there exept for the same error 19:40:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 19:40:35 <Samu> maybe lzma for mac is bad? bad library or so? I dunno 19:41:03 <Samu> i dont have a mac to test :( can't help 19:41:52 <Samu> can u open openttd.cfg file 19:41:59 <Samu> seee which savegame_format u got there 19:43:00 <Samu> [misc] savegame_format = 19:43:21 <Samu> if lzma faisl, try zlib 19:43:29 <Samu> savegame_format = zlib 19:43:30 <Samu> like that 19:43:34 <supermop> andythenorth little stripes or signs in cc could easily and discretely tell you who owns the wires, and the way the cc is drawn could help show what type of wires they are 19:43:44 <LordAro> pretty sure you can't change that setting while the game is running 19:43:48 <andythenorth> occasionally LZMA stops working on the mac, in official binaries 19:44:19 <andythenorth> then saves stop 19:44:27 <Rybeast> oh 19:44:28 <Rybeast> OH 19:44:28 <Eddi|zuHause> if only there were a mac maintainer that could look at that kind of issues 19:44:30 <Rybeast> it's back 19:44:33 <andythenorth> and if you don't notice quick enough, all autosaves are corrupt 19:44:45 <Rybeast> one of the autosaves has it all back 19:44:46 <Rybeast> :S 19:44:49 <andythenorth> and screen drawing is borked, black squares everywhere 19:44:58 <andythenorth> doesn't happen in self-compiled builds, or at least not to me 19:45:11 <Rybeast> YES 19:45:15 <Rybeast> THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED 19:45:34 <andythenorth> yes 19:45:39 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, someone with a mac, and familiar with the ottd source 19:45:41 <andythenorth> it happens to my kids games 19:45:42 <LordAro> who could that be 19:45:55 <andythenorth> fonso has a mac 19:46:03 <andythenorth> and peter had one but it broke 19:52:37 <Samu> trAIns is still upgrading rails 19:52:41 <Samu> so slow :( 19:53:16 <EarthlingKira> @Samu so, do you think that breakdowns are fine for high reliability ratings but should happen more often for low reliability ratings? 19:54:11 <Samu> hmm, didn't really test the first part 19:55:12 <Samu> gonna load some old saves I got here 19:55:15 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 19:55:18 <Samu> run them for 1 year 19:55:36 <Samu> and compare with 1 year of 1.7.2 for the same savegame 19:56:32 <Samu> ugh, i need to build again, this is gonna take a while again 20:02:33 *** Thedarkb1 has quit IRC 20:04:25 <Samu> oho, it built already, this was faster now 20:06:50 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 20:12:48 <Samu> i think i need to give it more time, 1 year isn't enough 20:19:44 <Samu> EarthlingKira: https://imgur.com/a/LOz8g 20:19:56 <Samu> top is with your patch, bottom is with 1.7.2 20:20:08 <Samu> reduced breakdowns on both 20:20:36 <Samu> it's almost unnnoticeable 20:21:45 <Samu> the impact of your patch seems like none 20:21:56 <Samu> breakdowns were off before 2051 20:22:27 <Samu> turned them on in 1st jan 2051, tons of aircraft went for autorenew, they were old 20:23:13 <Samu> no breakdowns vs reduced breakdowns, and the graph seems about equal to what it was before 2051 20:23:19 <Samu> after stabilizinh 20:23:40 <Samu> now gonna test with normal breakdowns, brb 20:33:18 *** Rybeast has quit IRC 20:38:42 <Samu> https://imgur.com/a/LOz8g 20:38:48 <Samu> refresh 20:39:58 <Samu> for sake of completeness, gonna test without breakdowns :p 20:41:28 *** synchris has quit IRC 20:53:34 <Samu> done 20:53:36 <Samu> https://imgur.com/a/LOz8g 20:54:53 <Samu> first 2, reduced breakdowns, patch vs 1.7.2 20:55:03 <Samu> middle 2, normal breakdowns, patch vs 1.7.2 20:55:12 <Samu> last 2, no breakdowns, patch vs 1.7.2 20:55:18 <Samu> EarthlingKira: 20:57:45 <supermop> who wants to add stations to nml so I can update mlss? 20:59:37 <andythenorth> GB 20:59:40 <andythenorth> GN even 20:59:42 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:00:12 <Samu> may have to test other vehicle types, too 21:00:25 <Samu> having dinner atm, afk 21:14:57 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 21:16:48 <Samu> back 21:24:08 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 21:51:53 <Samu> EarthlingKira: https://imgur.com/a/zecGt 21:52:11 <Samu> for road vehicles 22:04:27 <EarthlingKira> Thanks for the data and testings! 22:04:52 <EarthlingKira> You only compare the profit, right? 22:05:14 <EarthlingKira> I think breakdowns are most noticable when looking at profits when you do have really busy train tracks 22:05:37 <EarthlingKira> Otherwise their impact on profit is low (with and without my patch) 22:07:30 <EarthlingKira> I'd guess that AI doesn't build routes which are nearly as busy as routes built by humans 22:09:38 *** Smedles has quit IRC 22:09:42 *** Smedles has joined #openttd 22:09:47 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:12:10 *** Progman has joined #openttd 22:26:30 <Samu> hmm 22:27:30 <Samu> i wanted to try put this data in excel to create a graph 22:28:41 <Samu> a reliability of 65535 is the same as 100% 22:29:08 <Samu> every day CheckBreakdown is called, and 80 reliability is lost 22:29:58 <Samu> Chance16I(1, 8, r) 22:30:02 <Samu> wtf this do? 22:30:45 <Samu> road vehicles service interval is a default of 150 days 22:30:58 <Samu> @calc 150 * 80 22:30:58 <DorpsGek> Samu: 12000 22:33:13 <Samu> return (((uint16)r * b + b / 2) >> 16) < a; 22:33:30 <Samu> static inline bool Chance16I(const uint a, const uint b, const uint32 r) 22:38:33 <Samu> @calc (0xffff * 8 + 8 / 2) / (2**16) 22:38:33 <DorpsGek> Samu: 7.99993896484 22:40:51 <Samu> 7 < 1 22:40:53 <Samu> false 22:41:50 <Samu> @calc (0*8+8/2)/(2**16) 22:41:50 <DorpsGek> Samu: 6.103515625e-05 22:42:05 <Samu> english plz 22:42:47 <Samu> 0,00006103515625 22:42:48 <Samu> ah 22:46:13 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd 22:46:45 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 22:52:08 <Samu> @calc 8191/65535 22:52:08 <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.124986648356 22:52:21 <Samu> @calc 8192/65536 22:52:21 <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.125 22:53:40 <Samu> @calc 1/8 22:53:40 <DorpsGek> Samu: 0.125 22:53:52 <Samu> :( 22:59:02 <Samu> once every 8 times, add 4 to chance 22:59:11 <Samu> 8 times in this case, 8 days 23:01:17 <Samu> @calc 150 * (1/8) 23:01:17 <DorpsGek> Samu: 18.75 23:01:49 <Samu> oops 23:02:07 <Samu> @calc 150 * 4 * (1/8) 23:02:07 <DorpsGek> Samu: 75 23:02:57 <Samu> @calc 150 * 4 * (1/25) + 150 23:02:57 <DorpsGek> Samu: 174 23:23:01 <Wolf01> 'night 23:23:04 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 23:26:57 *** TigerbotHesh has quit IRC 23:28:47 *** Thedarkb1 has joined #openttd 23:38:29 <Samu> i hate math 23:46:41 *** EarthlingKira_ has joined #openttd 23:48:48 *** EarthlingKira has quit IRC 23:49:19 *** Rybeast has joined #openttd 23:50:21 <Rybeast> Hello! I'm back to annoy again. Is it possible to auto-replace for the same vehicle? I'm wanting to replace my Chimeras on the Maglev, but it doesn't seem to let me choose another... I wouldn't mind doing manually, but I'd feel a bit meh by having to do that! 23:51:02 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 23:52:24 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 23:54:50 <ST2> Rybeast: what year you're on? if too advanced, maybe that's the only train available 23:55:22 <ST2> if not using breakdowns, makes no sense replace with same vehicle, even if getting old 23:56:22 <ST2> to replace vehicles, there's a diff setting for that 23:56:28 <ST2> hope it helps ^^ 23:57:13 <Rybeast> I'm able to buy the vehicles still, but I'm playing with breakdowns 23:57:23 <Rybeast> what's the setting to replace like with like? 23:58:43 <Alkel_U3> Autorenew in settings 23:58:48 <ST2> https://www.dropbox.com/s/39si9obziw787f9/Screenshot%202018-01-13%2023.58.22.png?dl=0 <<-- this 2 close to pointer