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00:09:04 *** Norrin has joined #openttd 00:10:41 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 00:12:20 *** TrueBrain_ has joined #openttd 00:15:01 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 00:15:26 *** TrueBrain has quit IRC 00:22:19 *** Yotson has quit IRC 00:29:48 *** Yotson has joined #openttd 00:38:20 *** DarkSSHClone has quit IRC 00:38:40 *** Darkvater has joined #openttd 00:38:40 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Darkvater 01:08:26 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:19:41 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 01:23:56 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 02:04:48 *** supermop has joined #openttd 02:05:25 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: is lack of motivation to draw one of the features of CETS? 02:06:40 <Eddi|zuHause> well i never really had the intention to draw anything. oberhümer drew a few of the prussian engines, but that also dissipated... 02:12:34 <supermop> always sounded like the scope was very large for that set 02:16:52 <supermop> im stalling because i don't want to make a new 9/8 template 02:42:12 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i dabbled a bit in autogenerating/composing some graphics, but i ended being distracted/unmotivated to do really anything at all 02:42:46 <Eddi|zuHause> for reason i'm not really willing to go into here 02:46:02 *** Lejving has joined #openttd 02:46:18 <supermop> so thoroughly indoctrinated here - giving notice to quit my job, and i am almost beside myself with regret and guilty feelings 02:47:06 <supermop> even though i find my employer incompetent and frustrating, and continued employment with him to be a professional liability 02:48:20 <supermop> all this shame for breaking a capitalist's heart, and i think of myself and pretty far left 02:48:38 <supermop> but that's american (and new york) work culture for you 02:51:11 *** Lejving__ has quit IRC 02:51:33 <Eddi|zuHause> well my new boss wanted to impose some strict working hours, or else... and i said "then i choose else" 02:52:28 <Eddi|zuHause> so now i'm on some kind of irregular consulting contract with him, instead of full-time 02:54:16 <supermop> i am full time with this guy, but because he is so disorganized 02:54:33 <supermop> it is hourly and irregular, 02:55:08 <supermop> i generally work 40-45 hours a week, nice that its hourly, but the junior employees will get called off all the time when money is short 02:55:16 <supermop> and not work for a week or two 02:55:47 <supermop> no contract, benefits or health insurance for any of us, so i am lucky i have it through my wife 02:56:11 <supermop> the us system for insurance through job is absurd 02:56:28 <supermop> even if you get good insurance, you are then bound to that employer 02:57:10 <glx> and the medical costs are insane too 02:57:24 <supermop> new job i am taking pay is actually slightly less, but i will have a real contract, and the company has a real staff of other people with steady jobs 02:57:40 <supermop> instead of some weeks only me 02:59:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen these numbers... for european countries you have (per capita) x amount of "private" money and y amount of "tax" money, where x is vastly smaller number, then for america you have y amount of "private" money and y amount of "tax" money. 02:59:25 <Eddi|zuHause> so not only does your system not save any tax money 02:59:41 <Eddi|zuHause> it costs almost double 02:59:55 <Eddi|zuHause> without being any better overall 03:00:26 <glx> everything cost more in their system 03:00:39 <glx> university is almost free in france 03:01:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah same here 03:01:47 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 03:02:07 <Eddi|zuHause> and they even give you money if your parents are poor 03:02:19 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 03:02:32 <Eddi|zuHause> (or have lots of kids) 03:03:59 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: we are stuck with a system that seemed to look kind of good in like the late 40s and then fell apart 03:04:51 <Eddi|zuHause> on the "bright" side, they're slowly taking the system apart bit by bit here... 03:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause> because "everything is better in america" and "free market" and "small government" and whatever 03:06:10 <supermop> there are a few things better in america: 03:06:12 <glx> same here 03:06:25 <glx> EU is broken 03:06:33 <supermop> ribs 03:06:50 <supermop> maybe that's it? 03:07:02 <glx> instead unifying it creates competition between countries 03:07:09 <supermop> we have good barbecue ribs 03:07:50 <supermop> we have some good music - because our system is so broken it motivates people to make good music 03:08:00 <supermop> so we've got ribs and music 03:08:25 <Eddi|zuHause> is your music "good", or just "average enough to reach large audiences"? 03:09:30 <supermop> Eddi|zuHause: depends, but i'd say that blues, jazz, hip hop, r&b, funk and rock are all significant contributions to world culture 03:09:53 <supermop> but all were catalyzed by shitty conditions here 03:10:06 <supermop> punk i will give to UK and jamaica 03:11:25 <supermop> oysters 03:11:52 <supermop> montauk oysters i do find better 03:12:07 <supermop> so i go 3 things that are better in america so far 03:21:32 <Eddi|zuHause> so, a) i have no interest in oysters, and b) i see that all "your" "good" music is actually by people you forcefully imported and exploited. 03:22:53 <glx> and I'm off, good night 03:23:02 *** glx has quit IRC 03:23:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see how "look, slavery wasn't all bad, we got good music out of it" is ever a good sentence to say 03:45:51 *** Cubey has quit IRC 04:23:43 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 04:30:33 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 05:24:18 *** supermop has quit IRC 05:36:27 *** keoz has joined #openttd 05:54:21 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 06:08:25 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 06:16:24 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 06:35:25 *** keoz has quit IRC 06:58:36 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 07:08:15 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 07:19:53 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 07:38:02 *** WWacko1976-work has joined #openttd 08:17:09 *** tokai has joined #openttd 08:17:09 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 09:06:31 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 09:16:52 *** gelignite has quit IRC 11:51:28 <HeyCitizen> jazz 11:52:14 <nielsm> jukebox 12:58:28 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 13:01:57 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 13:21:49 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 13:41:54 <supermop_work> Eddi|zuHause: not a sentence i said 13:42:50 <supermop_work> also i think you may have missed that we were arguing the same point 14:17:56 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 14:17:56 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 14:18:05 <Alberth> o/ 14:47:04 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:51:29 *** Flygon has quit IRC 15:11:10 *** WWacko1976-work has quit IRC 15:11:19 *** keoz has joined #openttd 15:12:42 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 15:28:09 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 15:41:56 *** Gja has joined #openttd 15:42:11 *** nielsm has quit IRC 15:43:09 *** synchris has joined #openttd 15:56:00 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 15:56:29 <andythenorth> o/ 15:56:30 <supermop_work> hi andy 15:57:15 <andythenorth> alright? 15:57:40 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 16:05:34 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 16:06:40 <supermop_work> am i alright? 16:06:51 <supermop_work> i guess as good as any day 16:07:05 <andythenorth> @seen frosch123 16:07:05 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: frosch123 was last seen in #openttd 20 hours, 20 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <frosch123> i have not touched windows for 10 years, i have no idea why people use it for development at all 16:09:12 <Pikka> o/ 16:10:05 <andythenorth> 2 pikkas in a row 16:10:07 <andythenorth> how rare 16:10:13 <andythenorth> what's up Pikka? :) 16:11:18 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 16:13:05 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 16:13:10 <Pikka> right now, intermodal container cars: "realistic" or just boring? 16:13:24 <andythenorth> :o 16:13:29 <andythenorth> that's rather coincidental 16:13:37 <andythenorth> I am working on same thing in UKRS 3 16:13:50 <andythenorth> literally have the buy menu open for them :P 16:14:05 <Pikka> ukrs 3 \o/ 16:14:06 <andythenorth> UKRS 3 = Iron Horse 2 :P 16:14:38 <andythenorth> what was the question? o_O 16:15:53 <Pikka> deciding whether to include them at all in notUKRS 3... 16:16:40 <andythenorth> I am doing them in Horse 2 16:16:52 <andythenorth> but they're identical to box cars, except graphics 16:16:57 <andythenorth> same capacity, speed, refit 16:17:08 <andythenorth> horse is mostly about 'pick sprites you like' 16:17:13 <Pikka> hmmm... yes 16:17:35 <Pikka> well that's what I'm thinking... but in that case, why include them unless they're graphically interesting, which theyr're not? :P 16:18:17 <Pikka> I suppose some people might like container trains. 16:19:09 <andythenorth> I like the change between empty / full 16:19:15 <andythenorth> and I can randomise the container colours 16:19:22 <Pikka> true 16:19:43 <andythenorth> I don't bother with any justification for wagon types except 'looks nice' and 'looks different to other types' 16:19:54 <andythenorth> engines....have to fit a role 16:20:11 <Pikka> yes... speaking of which 16:20:35 <Pikka> was no MUs except "metro" in IH a design choice? 16:20:46 <andythenorth> well 16:20:59 <andythenorth> http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/docs/html/trains.html 16:21:18 <andythenorth> for normal trains, I prefer making trains of single unit railcars, 16:21:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:21:46 <andythenorth> but I have added some fast electric things, 2-unit 16/8 16:22:01 <andythenorth> they will have BAD FEATURES to make power cars and coaches when combined 16:22:09 <Pikka> huh 16:22:17 <Pikka> FAD BEACHES 16:22:43 <andythenorth> FAD BEACHES are compulsory 16:23:22 <andythenorth> hmm web page reveals how much I have to draw :P 16:23:25 <andythenorth> hide web page pls 16:23:46 <Pikka> yes 16:24:03 <Pikka> I'm reviving the 10CC concept... 10 locos per set = less to draw. 16:24:13 <andythenorth> yay 16:24:17 <Pikka> but doing them in double zoom = more to draw 16:24:20 <andythenorth> pixels? 16:24:23 <andythenorth> or rendered? 16:24:24 <Pikka> yes 16:24:24 <andythenorth> or both? 16:24:33 <Pikka> 2xez 32bpp hand drawn 16:24:37 <andythenorth> yay 16:25:04 <andythenorth> supporting 1860-2050 is dozy, but I am doing it anyway :P 16:25:11 <andythenorth> so much trains 16:25:14 <Pikka> yep 16:25:22 <Pikka> 10 locos, 1900 - 2000. 16:25:44 <andythenorth> I await with interest :) 16:25:52 <andythenorth> I am not EZ-ing FIRS though :P 16:26:24 <Pikka> oh why not? :P 16:27:21 <andythenorth> almost certainly don't have enough life left :P 16:27:29 <andythenorth> FIRS is nearly 10 years old 16:30:09 <Sacro> Pikka: new ukrs3? 16:31:30 <Pikka> UKRS 0.3... minimise expectations ;) 16:31:53 <andythenorth> so no intermodal? o_O 16:32:01 <andythenorth> and is intermodal also trucks-on-flatcar? 16:32:03 <andythenorth> :P 16:32:07 <Alberth> o/ 16:32:11 <Pikka> I suppose yes intermodal... container wagons 16:33:12 <Pikka> even pineapple trains had container wagons, and it was super-TT-style. 16:39:27 <andythenorth> I should make a pineapple train 16:39:36 <Pikka> out of real pineapple? 16:39:44 <andythenorth> https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lcItFqaJoXI/WVjoKGVeOKI/AAAAAAAAASY/A3OOMILAWaIdHRViiEpptWNMFWFhzollgCLcBGAs/s1600/PineappleTrain3.jpg 16:39:58 <Pikka> tasty 16:40:02 <andythenorth> QLD http://www.aussietowns.com.au/wp-content/gallery/nambour-qld/CD105256A.jpg 16:40:52 <Pikka> poor old big pineapple... it's looking pretty shabby these days. 16:51:09 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 17:05:24 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 17:06:00 <Wolf01> Moin 17:06:28 <Wolf01> Topic still missing something 17:07:25 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:07:25 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:15:05 <Wolf01> So, no new issues for NRT, ready for trunk. 17:19:25 <andythenorth> :P 17:20:14 <Pikka> o/ 17:23:17 *** RafiX has joined #openttd 17:24:30 <andythenorth> HOVS 17:25:28 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 17:27:39 *** GT has joined #openttd 17:28:12 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 17:28:22 <Wolf01> Quak 17:34:05 <frosch123> moi 17:36:13 <LordAro> quak 17:37:16 *** Progman has joined #openttd 17:51:22 <andythenorth> frosch123: so...NotStations? o_O 17:51:34 <andythenorth> I was considering trying to add nml support for stations 17:51:44 <andythenorth> but then I remembered...stations make no sense 17:53:18 <Wolf01> Yeah, a single interface like newobjects to build non-track station tiles 17:54:02 <andythenorth> with access to a list of cargos waiting at the station 17:54:27 <andythenorth> and a conventional action 3, action 2 chain, not whatever it is that stations do 17:54:31 <andythenorth> which I still don't understand 17:56:10 <andythenorth> oh it's prop 0F that I don't understand 17:56:16 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Stations#Copy_custom_layout_.280F.29 17:56:43 <andythenorth> and prop 0A 17:56:48 <andythenorth> and most of all prop 09 17:56:53 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Stations#Sprite_layout_.2809.29 17:59:15 <Pikka> debluncked station spec? :) 18:02:34 <andythenorth> something 18:15:42 <peter1138> hewhat 18:15:43 *** RafiX has quit IRC 18:15:58 *** RafiX has joined #openttd 18:16:11 <peter1138> stations must've made sense, i mostly made them work... 18:20:18 *** synchris has quit IRC 18:21:28 *** synchris has joined #openttd 18:22:59 <andythenorth> they work, they're just weird :P 18:27:36 <Wolf01> So andythenorth, did you decide what to do after NRT? I did: continue to extend NRT 18:27:50 <andythenorth> ha 18:28:07 <andythenorth> what did you add? o_O 18:28:08 <supermop_work> custom foundations for railtypes 18:28:25 <andythenorth> I have 3 unreleasable vehicle grfs 18:28:32 <andythenorth> so eh, plenty to do :P 18:30:14 <Wolf01> Eh, feature flags until I run off of space, finish the implementation, help frosch (or get frosch help) to turn NRT into BGT 18:31:34 <andythenorth> BGT is interesting 18:31:41 <Wolf01> A lot 18:31:46 <andythenorth> I wonder if we do it, we might find out it wasn't needed 18:31:53 <andythenorth> and the UI problem is...hard :) 18:32:03 <andythenorth> but eh 18:32:14 <andythenorth> how else do we learn anything? o_O 18:34:01 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 18:36:19 <supermop_work> i think its probably not needed, but i also feel newobjects are not needed 18:37:00 <andythenorth> and yet if they weren't there... 18:37:04 <andythenorth> we'd need them 18:37:38 <Wolf01> I need newobjects 18:37:49 <Wolf01> I don't use them, but when I don't have them I need them 18:38:01 <andythenorth> they'd distort the station spec otherwise 18:38:11 <andythenorth> we'd have feature requests for stations that were nothing to do with stations 18:38:12 <andythenorth> so eh 18:38:24 <andythenorth> I never use NewObjects though myself 18:38:26 <andythenorth> :P 18:38:47 <andythenorth> ok engine 'types' in Horse, e.g. 'Freight, Heavy Freight, Express' etc 18:39:03 <andythenorth> 'type', 'class', 'role', or 'group' ? 18:40:15 <Pikka> role, I guess... 18:40:18 <andythenorth> good 18:40:20 <andythenorth> I thought same 18:40:23 <andythenorth> thx 18:42:03 <supermop_work> rivet count 18:42:31 <supermop_work> youreally are going to want a 500 rivet locomotive for a rake like that 18:51:53 *** Alberth has left #openttd 18:53:04 <andythenorth> what 'role' are narrow gauge engines? o_O 18:53:10 * andythenorth hasn't thought about that, oops 18:54:26 <andythenorth> uncontroversial: branch, freight, heavy freight, express pax, railcar 18:55:08 <andythenorth> harder to figure out: electric engine (fast, high HP, but low TE); TGV-ish electric unit; narrow gauge engine 18:55:36 <andythenorth> I need to define the role to automate vehicle expiry :P 19:06:36 * andythenorth hedges 19:06:42 <andythenorth> express_1 and express_2 :P 19:06:54 <andythenorth> display strings can be done later 19:08:56 <Pikka> personally, let the player decide the role? ;) 19:09:53 <andythenorth> yes 19:10:03 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 19:10:09 <andythenorth> but I still have to handle model_life property :P 19:11:11 <andythenorth> 'red', 'green' and 'blue' would also work for that 19:11:17 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 19:11:28 <Pikka> I don't mind nothing disappearing in IH... otherwise, just make things disappear 10 years after the replacement is introduced? and use "retire early" to make sure players don't build anything that's going to break down before it's life expired. 19:11:41 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 19:11:50 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 19:12:17 <Pikka> https://i.imgur.com/yjCihJm.png that's not looking too bad, hmm? 2x is still pretty pixelly. 19:14:02 <andythenorth> I like the chibi 19:20:00 <andythenorth> lot more detail at that size than 1x 19:23:00 <peter1138> hu 19:26:44 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 20:06:07 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 20:06:29 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 20:32:18 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:43:36 *** Gja has quit IRC 20:47:20 *** synchris has quit IRC 20:55:26 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 21:01:55 *** RafiX has quit IRC 21:09:17 <andythenorth> also bed 21:09:18 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:38:12 <orudge> It seems some delightful individual is sending €1 donations to OpenTTD to test stolen PayPal accounts :( 21:38:27 <orudge> Had a large number of donations come through at the weekend, at least one of which has been reported as unauthorised... 21:39:05 *** GT has left #openttd 21:39:11 <LordAro> yay 21:39:22 <Wolf01> Oh, that's what I forgot to do! Are 5€ enough? 21:40:00 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 21:40:34 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 21:40:48 <orudge> Wolf01: you don't need to donate anything! But if you do wish to, then €5 is plenty - any donation is appreciated 21:40:55 <orudge> Except donations from stolen PayPal accounts :P 21:41:45 <Wolf01> The only problem is that the donation topic has more donation links than cnet download links :D 21:45:48 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:46:14 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 21:55:45 <__ln__> Wolf01: are you using a stolen account too? 21:55:58 *** Wacko1976_ has joined #openttd 21:56:13 <Wolf01> Yes, mine, it steals money from my bank account 21:56:20 *** keoz has quit IRC 21:56:38 <Wolf01> Also, bed 21:56:41 <Wolf01> 'night 21:56:45 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:58:21 *** gelignite has quit IRC 22:03:02 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 22:06:09 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 22:33:36 *** Thedarkb1 has joined #openttd 22:37:54 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 22:48:03 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 22:56:40 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:57:02 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 23:14:02 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 23:33:34 *** ProfFrink has joined #openttd 23:35:21 *** Prof_Frink has quit IRC 23:35:21 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink