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00:00:31 *** kimen has left #openttd 00:14:25 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 00:25:59 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 00:27:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 00:58:23 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 00:59:32 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:49:24 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 02:17:29 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 02:23:20 *** muffindrake1 has joined #openttd 02:25:10 *** muffindrake has quit IRC 03:09:55 <arahael> No more openttd for a week. :( Getting the screen of my laptop repaired. 03:10:44 <arahael> peter1138: I browse without javascript too on my iPad2. 03:11:16 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: Tip: Sometimes "reader mode" can show you the content even if it's "blank". 03:12:34 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a "reader mode"? 03:14:14 <arahael> Eddi|zuHause: A special mode some browsers have - firefox and safari both have it. If the web page is compatible (Most article-based pages are), then it'll strip *all* the page presentation and just give you the text, along with relevant images,in a very easy to read format. 03:42:28 *** glx has quit IRC 04:37:31 *** Cubey has quit IRC 05:15:12 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 05:15:19 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 05:16:22 *** TheHawk has joined #openttd 05:22:51 *** cHawk has quit IRC 05:24:18 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 05:28:20 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 05:36:36 *** Thedarkb1-X40 has joined #openttd 05:40:24 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 05:41:13 *** TheHawk has quit IRC 05:41:41 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 06:13:10 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 06:18:37 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:18:53 <andythenorth> o/ 06:21:29 *** Progman has joined #openttd 06:25:30 *** muffindrake2 has joined #openttd 06:26:24 <Pikka> o/ 06:27:21 *** muffindrake1 has quit IRC 06:27:45 <andythenorth> lo Pikka 06:28:00 <andythenorth> is recolour sprites a thing? 06:28:13 <andythenorth> or shall I just paint the pixels I need? 06:29:36 <Pikka> it can be a thing, I did it for UKRS2... but painting is easier. 06:29:55 * Pikka bbs 06:33:59 <peter1138> RECOLOUR IT 06:34:28 <peter1138> Left you a slew of TODOs andythenorth ;p 06:34:55 *** APTX| has quit IRC 06:35:00 *** APTX has joined #openttd 06:35:21 <andythenorth> I saw :D 06:35:34 <peter1138> There's more, to do with AIs. 06:35:35 <andythenorth> and Wolf has gone Lego-ing 06:35:40 <andythenorth> such larks 06:36:33 <andythenorth> so what's the go? Rebase the fork? Or use your giant patch? 06:45:44 <peter1138> I'm looking through my giant patch at the moment. 07:03:23 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 07:18:20 <andythenorth> oops 07:18:23 <andythenorth> hacked a GS in place 07:18:27 <andythenorth> crazy talk 07:18:41 <andythenorth> better than hitting 'newgame' until I get 3 random cargos I like :P 07:25:38 <peter1138> :p 07:27:04 <andythenorth> I could do it properly and a UI to choose cargos eh 07:27:10 <andythenorth> but I want to play ottd 07:27:30 <peter1138> Play? What is this? 07:30:13 <andythenorth> I know 07:31:16 <andythenorth> oops, ran out money 07:36:40 <peter1138> Ctrl-alt-c 07:39:37 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 07:39:54 <andythenorth> 'cheating' 07:40:35 <Pikka> lies 07:41:45 <andythenorth> Pikka: played any FIRS ever? o_O 07:41:57 <Pikka> sure 07:42:21 <Pikka> plenty 07:42:52 <andythenorth> Steeltown? 07:44:17 <Pikka> nope, don't think I had a current enough version until recently 07:44:46 <andythenorth> is different 07:45:49 <Pikka> oui 07:46:07 <Pikka> I'll have to try it. could do a multiplayer game again? 07:46:31 <andythenorth> I can later in the week 07:46:34 <andythenorth> ping here is bad 07:46:49 <andythenorth> there would be a lot of 'paused for andy to reconnect' 07:53:50 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 07:57:02 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 08:04:40 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 08:17:21 <__ln__> who would like to tell me what are _wnd.width_org and .height_org for in win32_v.cpp? 08:23:44 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 08:25:17 <__ln__> if i remove them and replace each occurrence with just .width and .height, apparently nothing changes in behaviour. 08:35:12 <LordAro> they appear to have been there since r1 08:49:00 <__ln__> i also wonder what 'bck' in _bck_resolution stands for. 'backup'? 08:54:30 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 09:00:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 09:03:09 <LordAro> __ln__: looks like its only use is when maximising the window, so i'd guess so 09:12:06 <__ln__> thanks for your support :| 09:21:53 <LordAro> yw 09:28:58 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 09:29:36 <TrueBrain> still no response from GitHub .. last time they were rapid with a response .. guess I either did it wrong (as you don't get confermation in email) or it was a really difficult question 09:29:41 <TrueBrain> AWS also never replied ........ 09:30:06 <andythenorth> moin TrueBrain 09:31:25 <TrueBrain> morning :) 09:32:15 <andythenorth> so what today? 09:32:43 <andythenorth> these 19 from FS? https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22enhancement+from+FlySpray%22 09:34:12 <TrueBrain> few things I like to do ... indeed, FS issues, OSX CI, Mingw CI, revamp CI to report better, look at cmake, slap LordAro for contribution.md (see bootstrap! :P), slap andythenorth for making a PR of the issue I assigned to him 09:34:14 <TrueBrain> so many choices 09:34:34 <andythenorth> I am playing OpenTTD 09:34:36 <LordAro> i'm sensing a theme 09:35:09 <TrueBrain> but indeed, lets first finish tickets .. I was at page 7 of 10, so .. 09:37:11 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 09:38:20 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest174 09:38:30 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:39:23 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: so you understood #5654 .. can you explain me what he meant? :D 09:40:03 <andythenorth> let's see 09:40:56 <andythenorth> seems I thought it was bug...feature request 09:40:59 <andythenorth> whatever that means 09:41:00 <andythenorth> :P 09:41:19 <TrueBrain> I dont understand what he is talking about 09:41:28 <andythenorth> so, e.g. Operating Profit 09:41:32 <andythenorth> in game with > 1 company 09:41:33 <TrueBrain> I think, but this is reaching, that something is not reset on starting a new game? 09:41:44 <andythenorth> ok 09:41:47 <andythenorth> so no screenshot 09:41:48 <andythenorth> no save 09:41:51 <andythenorth> no repro step 09:41:58 <andythenorth> why spend my life reproing? :) 09:41:58 <TrueBrain> yes; but dont care 09:42:05 <TrueBrain> I am trying to undestand a user 09:42:09 <TrueBrain> which is the first thing we should always do :) 09:42:28 <andythenorth> ugh you pulled the argument I can't argue against :x 09:42:37 *** Guest174 has quit IRC 09:42:50 <TrueBrain> I am not asking to argue against me; I asked if you understood the user :D :) 09:42:55 <andythenorth> you must have read an agile book 09:43:20 <andythenorth> so the charts, operating profit etc, there is an option to toggle companies on and off 09:43:42 <andythenorth> I think he's suggesting the toggle state per company is persisted in openttd, rather than the save 09:44:02 <andythenorth> I thought of way to test, hang on 09:44:10 <TrueBrain> no, the other way around :D Just reproduced it :D 09:44:18 <TrueBrain> but he jumps to a solution, instead of the problem :) 09:44:22 <TrueBrain> so, when you deselect a company 09:44:29 <TrueBrain> and create a new game, or load a save game, or what ever 09:44:31 <TrueBrain> it remembers it 09:44:42 <TrueBrain> so you start a new game with your own company deselected :D 09:44:43 <andythenorth> seems to 09:44:51 <TrueBrain> storing it in the save seems silly 09:44:58 <TrueBrain> just reset on load/new game, I guess 09:45:17 <andythenorth> I can confirm the report 09:45:27 <andythenorth> at least for op. profit graph 09:45:50 <andythenorth> it could cause failure demand I guess, user might wonder why their company is not shown 09:46:39 <TrueBrain> put steps to reproduce down :) 09:47:08 <andythenorth> I screenshot 09:47:30 <TrueBrain> you go girl! 09:50:15 <andythenorth> I am going to make a TrueBrain filter for irc 09:50:46 <LordAro> /ignore TrueBrain 09:50:57 <TrueBrain> its what I always do 09:52:29 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 09:52:41 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 09:55:54 *** Thedarkb1-X40 has quit IRC 09:57:47 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 09:57:55 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: so where's my assigned issue? o_O 09:58:25 <TrueBrain> in your mailbox? Or search for it :) 09:58:47 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 09:58:54 <TrueBrain> (Assignee -> Me) 09:59:01 <andythenorth> found it 09:59:05 <andythenorth> weird I don't get notified 10:01:10 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 10:01:14 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 10:05:52 <TrueBrain> I am creating a new ticket :( Saddddd 10:06:11 <andythenorth> I am dumb 10:06:22 <andythenorth> I can't see how to update my github fork of OpenTTD 10:06:27 <andythenorth> I guess google knows 10:06:54 <TrueBrain> git remote add upstream https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD 10:06:57 <TrueBrain> git fetch upstream 10:06:57 <andythenorth> oh I just do remotes 10:07:00 <TrueBrain> git rebase upstream/master 10:07:06 <andythenorth> I assumed there was a better way 10:07:17 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: I think the (only) GitHub project is mislabelled. Pango can't replace ICU because as far as I can see it doesn't do collation or sorting. What it does is layout (which what was removed from ICU), but the engine itself is HarfBuzz which removes the need for Cairo, GLib etc. 10:07:54 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: talk to LordAro, as I just repeated what he told me :D 10:07:58 <LordAro> *frosch 10:08:03 <TrueBrain> I have no knowledge of ICU or Pango :) 10:08:14 <LordAro> but yeah, it was only intended to replace the layout stuff, sorting stays as ICU 10:08:23 <TrueBrain> people lie to me :( 10:08:27 <LordAro> (as the layout stuff has been deprecated and removed from ICU) 10:08:40 <michi_cc> Then you really only want HarfBuzz, as Pango is a complete text rendering engine down to the pixels. 10:08:42 <LordAro> i've been looking at pango all morning, and it is exceptionally lacking in documentation 10:09:05 <TrueBrain> because if ICU changes, a few tickets should be prioritized differently :) 10:09:16 <michi_cc> There's a drop-in ICU layout replacement: https://github.com/harfbuzz/icu-le-hb 10:09:17 <LordAro> and yeah, with all the extra stuff it pulls in, (cairo, glib, etc) i think some more minimal alternative might be better 10:10:02 <LordAro> michi_cc: interesting 10:10:13 <LordAro> feel like it'd be "better" to do it properly though 10:10:15 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 10:10:58 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: I made changes :) 10:11:30 *** Darkvater has joined #openttd 10:11:30 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Darkvater 10:12:01 <LordAro> https://github.com/LordAro/OpenTTD/tree/pango2 is as far as i've got anyway 10:13:07 <andythenorth> so to do a PR, for a docs change, do I need to branch in my fork? 10:13:10 <andythenorth> or push on master? 10:13:12 <andythenorth> (docs only) 10:13:36 <TrueBrain> no, to a branch 10:13:36 <LordAro> andythenorth: for a change you don't expect to last very long, it's probably fine to use master 10:13:43 <TrueBrain> as soon as you psuh, GitHub helps you with the rest 10:13:47 <LordAro> as far as git/GH is concerned, it's just another branch 10:13:48 <TrueBrain> NO LordAro NO 10:13:53 <TrueBrain> NEVER use master in your fork :) 10:13:56 <LordAro> but it's good to keep them synced 10:14:00 <michi_cc> LordAro: Yeah, but the lib is probably a good way to see how functionality maps. 10:14:01 <TrueBrain> BAD LordAro :) 10:14:18 <LordAro> TrueBrain: go on then, why does it matter :p 10:14:24 <TrueBrain> your PR, when accepted in upstream master, will have another hash; in result, you NEED to do a force push on your master if you resync 10:14:31 <TrueBrain> really bad practice :) 10:14:41 <LordAro> yeah, but it's *your* master 10:14:44 <LordAro> it's irrelevant 10:14:45 <TrueBrain> always make a branch; it is cheap, doesnt cost you anything, etc 10:15:04 <TrueBrain> do what you like in your fork; please don't teach others to do that :) Gives you a lot of more explaining to do :) 10:15:30 <TrueBrain> so andythenorth, git branch -b docs_name_whatever 10:15:32 <TrueBrain> git push 10:15:36 <TrueBrain> (git will help you with the rest) 10:17:12 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: #5198 , can you explain this to me in plain english? (if you understand it :D) 10:20:23 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: nope 10:20:34 <andythenorth> I don't understand timetables 10:20:40 <andythenorth> they have a terrible UI 10:20:43 <andythenorth> and they don't actually work 10:20:54 <TrueBrain> right 10:20:55 <andythenorth> but still...billions of feature requests 10:21:07 <andythenorth> one big ticket: timetables are broken 10:21:32 <andythenorth> sorry, timetables piss me off :) 10:21:32 <LordAro> convince ic111 to redo their timetables branch 10:21:34 <LordAro> :p 10:21:35 <andythenorth> not being helpful 10:21:48 <TrueBrain> very helpful, closed the ticket :) 10:22:06 <andythenorth> I don't think anybody understands them 10:22:18 <andythenorth> the whole idea of changing vehicle speed to hit the timetable is voodoo 10:23:00 <TrueBrain> lol @ screenshot of #4540 10:23:02 <TrueBrain> I was like .. how bad can it be 10:24:00 <andythenorth> ha ha 10:24:30 <andythenorth> don't use conditional orders :D 10:25:42 <frosch123> so, when listing rev hashes in the commit message: how long should it be? i use rev-parse --short which gives different lengths for whatever, truebrain said 7 in #6711. does this even need to be defined, or do we allow whatever? 10:25:44 <andythenorth> have we got any ticket number format / bot? 10:25:53 <andythenorth> oh frosch123 has same q 10:26:00 <andythenorth> synchronous :P 10:26:17 <TrueBrain> frosch123: funny addition, if you click Squash, GitHub makes it 7 for you :) 10:26:30 <andythenorth> well frosch means hashes, but eh 10:26:35 <andythenorth> standard commit formats? 10:26:36 <TrueBrain> (and I just said GitHub makes it 7! I have no other opinion on the matter) 10:26:53 <andythenorth> we used to have "FS#6114" or so in commits? 10:27:15 <andythenorth> (#6114) ? 10:27:22 <LordAro> wait, when did frosch123 get here 10:27:59 <andythenorth> 10:57am innit 10:28:39 <TrueBrain> poor LordAro, feels offguard :D 10:28:44 <andythenorth> let's see how wrong I can get a PR :P 10:28:54 <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, we have a fixed format for issue numbers, we even have a bot which enforces them 10:29:10 <frosch123> andythenorth: https://wiki.openttd.org/Commit_style#Commit_message 10:29:16 <TrueBrain> frosch123: we should check the hash exists I guess in the commit-checker btw .. 10:29:23 <TrueBrain> might avoid pointing to a fix in your own branch or something 10:29:26 <andythenorth> oops 10:29:29 <andythenorth> Docs not Doc 10:29:33 <andythenorth> in my commit 10:29:44 <TrueBrain> git rebase -i upstream/master 10:29:48 <TrueBrain> change 'pick' in reword! 10:29:52 <TrueBrain> (or just git commit --amend) 10:29:58 <TrueBrain> :D 10:30:03 <andythenorth> I prefer amend :P 10:30:20 <frosch123> TrueBrain: does that work with your shallow clones on jenkins? 10:30:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 10:30:56 <TrueBrain> frosch123: currently they are not shallow :) 10:31:02 <TrueBrain> and I think that remains that way 10:31:07 <TrueBrain> I just do have to cache it, I noticed :P 10:31:20 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: 241, and I reached the last ticket 10:31:39 <andythenorth> let's see what I did wrong https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6713 10:31:44 <TrueBrain> 3 bug tickets left I didnt dare touching .. 10:32:10 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: please rebase, instead of merges :) 10:32:25 <TrueBrain> and how did you get twice the same commit in there? 10:32:28 <TrueBrain> that is not amending :) 10:32:37 <andythenorth> well 10:32:41 <TrueBrain> lol; sorry, but what did you do?! :D 10:32:41 <andythenorth> that is good q 10:32:53 <TrueBrain> I really have no clue how you did this :D 10:33:06 <andythenorth> I suspect our work git workflow is a lot looser 10:33:19 <TrueBrain> no ... I somewhat doubt that :) 10:33:24 <andythenorth> what's in my gitconfig I wonder 10:33:25 <TrueBrain> you have your own commit twice in there :) 10:33:46 <TrueBrain> and you merged your own branch in your own branch 10:34:09 <andythenorth> not explicitly 10:34:45 <TrueBrain> the merge is of both those commits 10:34:54 <andythenorth> I am reading my shell 10:34:58 *** Cubey has quit IRC 10:35:09 <andythenorth> the merge comes on pull 10:35:23 <andythenorth> because I have an amended local commit, I assume 10:35:37 <andythenorth> there's no 'git merge' 10:35:37 <TrueBrain> owh, so you pushed your branch 10:35:40 <andythenorth> yes 10:35:41 <TrueBrain> did an amend 10:35:44 <andythenorth> yes 10:35:47 <andythenorth> and then it has to merge 10:35:48 <TrueBrain> then pulled your own branch from remote 10:35:54 <TrueBrain> well, no, but I understand where it went wrong :) 10:36:00 <andythenorth> I can not do that 10:36:06 <TrueBrain> what you normally do after an amend, is a force push 10:36:07 <andythenorth> I'm just 5 years habit of doing that :P 10:36:13 <andythenorth> oh force push is banned at work :P 10:36:14 <TrueBrain> not a pull :) 10:36:15 <andythenorth> ok 10:36:17 <TrueBrain> yes, for good reason 10:36:20 <andythenorth> yes 10:36:23 <TrueBrain> but if you ban force push, you ban amand too 10:36:31 <TrueBrain> those two go side-by-side 10:36:39 <TrueBrain> amand .. lol 10:36:40 <TrueBrain> amend 10:36:48 <andythenorth> but if I didn't push, amend is fine? o_O 10:37:05 <TrueBrain> on GitHub, if you didn't make a Pull Request, force pushes are fine 10:37:09 <TrueBrain> after that it seems to break Github :D 10:37:11 <andythenorth> hmm 10:37:22 <TrueBrain> as long as you stay in your own fork, everything is fine, basically :P 10:37:22 <andythenorth> ok it's a brave new world 10:38:07 <andythenorth> so how to unfuck it? 10:38:15 <andythenorth> I can just make a new branch TBH 10:38:45 <TrueBrain> if you run: 10:38:49 <TrueBrain> git rebase -i upstream/master 10:38:52 <TrueBrain> you see both of your commits 10:38:56 <TrueBrain> remove the one with a broken commit message 10:39:06 <TrueBrain> (depending on your editor, there is a way to remove whole lines) 10:39:11 <TrueBrain> save and exit the editor 10:39:13 <TrueBrain> git push -f 10:40:22 <TrueBrain> (or make a new branch and cherry-pick your commit, or just make a new branch and do it again :P) 10:40:31 <andythenorth> let's learn how to rebase 10:40:33 <andythenorth> I want 'drop' 10:41:08 <TrueBrain> I like how verbose interactive rebasing is :) 10:42:13 <TrueBrain> frosch123: what is your opinion about #6597, #6590 and #6521. Do you think any of those are going to be picked up in the next year or so, and are they truly worth fixing? 10:43:22 <frosch123> 6597 is mb not understanding the specs 10:43:42 <TrueBrain> so we can close it? 10:43:45 <frosch123> yes 10:44:09 <TrueBrain> done 10:44:18 <frosch123> 6590 is valid, possibly "good first issue". reasoning: it works like this for plain rail, and is good. stations differ for no reason 10:44:36 <TrueBrain> done 10:44:56 <frosch123> 6521 is again bs 10:45:06 <frosch123> mb failing at basic logic 10:45:52 <TrueBrain> but I cannot reply that :) 10:45:59 <TrueBrain> and I dont understand most of what is writtenthere :P 10:47:01 <TrueBrain> frosch123: would you mind leaving your reasoning in that ticket and closing it up? 10:47:21 <andythenorth> I'm confused by that ticket 10:47:26 <andythenorth> but I have same cargo refits in Sam 10:47:29 <andythenorth> they work 10:47:47 <andythenorth> also the ticket starts talking about A and takes a massive left turn into B and C 10:47:53 <TrueBrain> yes 10:47:56 <TrueBrain> that really did not help 10:48:22 <frosch123> commented and closed 10:48:25 <TrueBrain> okay ... so many labels .. do we want to keep labels on closed tickets, or do we not care .. 10:48:28 <TrueBrain> thank you frosch123! 10:48:42 <TrueBrain> that only leaves hidden PRs in the issues .. rest is either closed or classified :D 10:49:55 <TrueBrain> keeping labels for historical reasons seems weird I guess 10:50:42 <TrueBrain> owh, I forgot lunch! bbl :) 10:51:04 <frosch123> burned pizza :p 10:52:53 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: I wanted to get rid of a few labels, not all 10:52:58 <andythenorth> 'script' is not useful 10:53:02 <andythenorth> and people have used it wrong a lot 10:53:13 <andythenorth> also less fucked up https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6714 10:54:12 <frosch123> "core" is useless, category was obligatory on fs 10:54:24 *** gelignite has quit IRC 10:54:24 <frosch123> "build system" is useless. everyone able to report that, would make a pr 10:55:03 <frosch123> most of the old features are probably useless 10:55:32 <frosch123> probably "NewGRF" is enough instead of "NewXX" 10:56:09 <andythenorth> I wondered 10:56:21 <andythenorth> 'timetables' and 'vehicles'? 10:56:25 <andythenorth> 'vehicles' and 'newgrf' 10:56:27 <andythenorth> o_O 10:56:32 <andythenorth> might be fine 10:57:19 <frosch123> so, imho delete: articulated, autoreplace, brdige, build system, clone vehicles, core, electrified rails, newcargos, newindustries, newobject, newstations, script, tgp, trams, vehicles 10:57:50 <frosch123> possibly also merge "noai" and "goal/game script" into one 10:57:54 <frosch123> not sure about the name 10:58:34 <andythenorth> there was 'script' 10:58:41 <andythenorth> was/is, but I found it confusing 10:58:43 <frosch123> yes, but too unspecific 10:58:46 <andythenorth> people are using it for random crap 10:58:48 <frosch123> there is also console :) 11:01:47 <andythenorth> ugh typo 11:02:04 <andythenorth> most ridiculous docs update ever 11:11:29 <frosch123> cleaned up some of the labels, merging various ones into one, deleting those with only "random" task assigned to them 11:11:38 <frosch123> i am unsure about all the labels for close reasons 11:11:52 <frosch123> maybe TrueBrain has an opinon on them 11:15:47 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest179 11:15:48 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:17:11 *** Guest179 has quit IRC 11:25:11 *** andythenorth is now known as Guest180 11:25:54 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:25:55 *** Guest180 has quit IRC 11:26:18 <andythenorth> 239 issues 11:26:23 <andythenorth> can't see how to get any more out 11:26:39 <andythenorth> other than solving them, or invalidating after investigation 11:26:52 <frosch123> turn all "build system" ones into PRs :) 11:27:02 <andythenorth> :P 11:27:09 <andythenorth> ok so what next TrueBrain? 11:27:15 <andythenorth> some kind of priority? 11:27:22 <andythenorth> label? 11:27:23 <andythenorth> 'top 100' project? 11:35:15 <TrueBrain> so yeah, labels .. do we care about closed issues? 11:35:36 <TrueBrain> as if we remove a label, it is also "removed" on closed issues (you cannot search on them anymore) 11:35:44 <TrueBrain> seems weird to have that as reason to not remove it, I guess 11:37:03 <TrueBrain> frosch123: how did you merge labels? 11:37:17 <TrueBrain> ah, manual :D 11:38:02 <andythenorth> I am not massively interested in preserving label history 11:38:08 <andythenorth> it's ephemeral imho 11:38:21 <TrueBrain> in that case, let me try something .. curious if this works .. 11:38:24 <andythenorth> make it do what we need for any moment in time 11:38:33 <frosch123> TrueBrain: filter issue for label, select all, mass apply new label, delete old label 11:38:45 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 11:39:02 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:39:03 <TrueBrain> frosch123: ah! That would have worked too .. smart :D 11:39:11 <TrueBrain> I now just removed a bunch of labels with no good reason what so ever :P 11:39:14 <TrueBrain> (only on closed tickets) 11:39:17 <frosch123> i only did it on open ones the first time though :p 11:39:26 <frosch123> for gs/ai i also applied it to closed ones 11:39:40 <TrueBrain> 4492 closed tickets 11:39:45 <TrueBrain> yeah ... that is going to take too long 11:40:03 <TrueBrain> (I want to remove "bug from FlySpray") 11:40:04 <andythenorth> so the 'from Flyspray' labels look like they're no longer needed? 11:40:06 <TrueBrain> guess I just remove it :P 11:40:14 <TrueBrain> plop 11:40:15 <TrueBrain> gone 11:40:44 <frosch123> what about duplicate, external, invalid, knownissue, wonfix and worksforme? 11:40:48 <frosch123> they are close reasons 11:40:59 <TrueBrain> yeah .. github tends to do that 11:41:04 <frosch123> but would you apply any of them when closing? :p 11:41:05 <TrueBrain> I dont really see any point in it tbh 11:41:15 <TrueBrain> get ride of them already :P 11:41:19 <LordAro> iirc GH has a "duplicate" link helper nowadays 11:42:18 <TrueBrain> I really wonder if labels like Network, and Pathfinder are of any use 11:42:20 <TrueBrain> but we will see 11:42:36 <andythenorth> it's all project management theatre 11:42:55 <andythenorth> at work, we mostly have 'now', 'backlog', 'not this year' 11:43:00 <TrueBrain> I do like "Interface" as in general different people do Interface vs other things 11:43:01 <andythenorth> and sometimes tags so we can filter 11:43:14 <frosch123> TrueBrain: imho yes. fixing them requires special knowledge, and the tasks in those categories use the label correctly 11:43:15 <TrueBrain> priority and severity 11:43:22 <TrueBrain> frosch123: fair enough 11:43:45 <andythenorth> get rid of the close reasons? 11:43:51 <frosch123> rule of thumb: labels make sense when people are able to apply them correctly :) 11:43:56 <andythenorth> yes 11:44:09 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I assumed frosch123 was removing them already :P 11:44:22 <frosch123> priority and severity sound useless to me 11:44:30 <frosch123> does anyone look for that? 11:44:30 <TrueBrain> minor vs critical can be very useful 11:44:38 <TrueBrain> as a new release should have no critical 11:44:44 <TrueBrain> just helps managing milestones 11:44:49 <TrueBrain> but we will see over time 11:45:14 <TrueBrain> okay, I gave all categories the same color 11:46:02 <frosch123> 19 labels? where did they all go? 11:46:08 <TrueBrain> in the bin 11:46:16 <frosch123> :p 11:46:55 <TrueBrain> 46 good-first-issues 11:46:57 <TrueBrain> not bad 11:47:28 <TrueBrain> and a big variation 11:47:59 <TrueBrain> 35 that needs triage 11:48:02 <TrueBrain> and a shitload of patches 11:49:43 <TrueBrain> what shall we do first .. 11:49:57 * frosch123 does eintsgit.py 11:50:01 <TrueBrain> sweet 11:50:22 <LordAro> will translators be able to push directly to the repo? 11:50:33 <TrueBrain> do you want to accept a PR every night? 11:50:52 <LordAro> hence the question :p 11:52:14 <TrueBrain> so 39 issues to close before weekend ends .. 11:54:46 <TrueBrain> #4684 .. is that something we want? 11:55:03 <TrueBrain> as you can also go the other way, that shift never executes anything 11:56:24 <andythenorth> ok /me BBL 11:56:30 <andythenorth> maybe it's 200 when I return :D 11:56:34 <TrueBrain> lol 11:56:39 <andythenorth> lol innit 11:56:40 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 11:56:42 *** Progman has quit IRC 12:36:12 <TrueBrain> weird .. I just forced pushed to my branch, and the PR updated correctly 12:36:23 <TrueBrain> frosch123: to what did you force push your updated PR? 12:37:02 <TrueBrain> and can you try rebasing and pushing again? (to your own fork) 12:45:24 <frosch123> rebased and pushed, jenkins job is queued 12:45:28 <frosch123> let's see 12:45:42 <TrueBrain> nope, didnt change anything 12:45:45 <TrueBrain> weird it worked for me 12:45:51 <TrueBrain> I dont see what would be different 12:46:55 <frosch123> well, apparently we were not the only ones with that issue, so maybe it gets fixed next week 12:47:13 <TrueBrain> I just wonder how what I do and what you do differ .. 12:47:18 <TrueBrain> or if it is RNG 12:47:18 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 12:47:36 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i pushed while jenkins was still building 12:47:41 <frosch123> yesterday 12:47:47 <TrueBrain> doesnt matter; jenkins only pulls it at the start 12:47:50 <TrueBrain> than never again 12:47:59 <frosch123> but github did not receive a result from the check yet 12:48:21 <TrueBrain> I really hope that doesnt matter at all, as those are separate 12:48:28 <TrueBrain> it is the git informing of the wrong data 12:48:32 <TrueBrain> status of commits are tracked outside of git 12:48:44 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 12:48:46 <TrueBrain> but we also had a PR with the same issue, where Jenkins was already finished 12:48:51 <TrueBrain> so that seems to be completely unrelated 12:49:00 <TrueBrain> if not, GH has some serious issues :D 12:49:25 <frosch123> it broke on their 10th aniversary 12:49:43 <frosch123> must be related :) 12:53:45 <TrueBrain> I hate that you cannot see tweets and responses on twitter without an account 12:53:47 <TrueBrain> which I refuse 12:57:06 <LordAro> huh? 12:58:31 <TrueBrain> good conversation, tnx :) 12:59:07 <frosch123> that changed last year 12:59:13 <frosch123> was possible before 12:59:25 <TrueBrain> yup; I really hate this attitude more and more companies have 12:59:33 <TrueBrain> gating information 12:59:35 <TrueBrain> ugh 13:00:34 <LordAro> nope, don't understand, you can see tweets and responses fine when not logged in 13:02:18 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 13:02:41 <frosch123> LordAro: https://twitter.com/OpenTTDnews <- click "Tweets & replies" at the top 13:03:52 <frosch123> haha, people thanking for "bugs" fixed, which probably never were bugs :) 13:03:59 <LordAro> interesting 13:04:06 <LordAro> well, you can still look at individual tweets fine 13:04:54 <peter1138> Hmm. 13:05:01 <peter1138> I have an account, and I can't click on Tweets & Replies. 13:05:32 <peter1138> But only on OpenTTDnews. I can for other tweet users. 13:09:26 <TrueBrain> I find it weird that not many more projects have issues with forced pushes tbh .. 13:10:03 <peter1138> Maybe they don't do it? 13:10:11 <TrueBrain> googling for github is annoying, with so many unrelated hits .. 13:12:17 <frosch123> i test-pushed an additional commit to the branch, let's see what happens when not-force pushing for once 13:13:18 <TrueBrain> that did work 13:13:38 <TrueBrain> and if you now remove it again? :D 13:13:46 <frosch123> i'll wait until jenkins is done and then force-push a removal :) 13:14:10 <TrueBrain> I can help speeding up that process 13:14:42 <TrueBrain> there you go 13:16:42 <frosch123> nope 13:17:00 <TrueBrain> that worked :o 13:17:14 <frosch123> hmm, did you trigger it again? 13:17:17 <TrueBrain> no 13:17:43 <TrueBrain> it takes a few seconds for Jenkins to say it is working on it, and your hash already had a failed result on it 13:17:48 <TrueBrain> (but that was because it could not find the hash) 13:17:59 <TrueBrain> but I now see the correct ref in my local git checkout 13:18:18 <TrueBrain> so it really is a GitHub issue 13:21:33 *** synchris has joined #openttd 13:21:46 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 13:27:21 <frosch123> pff, my eints test svn is too old, it does not know the certs to pull 13:28:11 <frosch123> s/svn/vm/ 13:38:34 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 13:38:49 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 13:53:01 *** Sylf has quit IRC 14:07:20 *** Progman has joined #openttd 14:14:42 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 14:22:02 <peter1138> Right, well, that's me and the bike cleaned off. 14:29:53 <TrueBrain> you got to love that the only way I can test Jenkinsfiles, is by simply pushing them ... :( 14:39:29 <peter1138> It works in a PR, no? 14:50:16 <LordAro> ah, the fun of setting up/changing a CI environment 14:52:06 <TrueBrain> "fun" he said 14:53:15 <TrueBrain> writing a language that is poorly designed .. "fun" 14:53:45 <peter1138> Designed? 14:53:48 <peter1138> Heh 14:56:55 <LordAro> :p 14:57:43 <TrueBrain> finally this seems valid groovy .. now lets see if it also does what I hope it does :D 15:10:36 <TrueBrain> sorry for the spam LordAro :P 15:14:25 <peter1138> Hmm, should I do this indirect railtypes thing? 15:16:42 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 15:17:36 <andythenorth> o/ 15:19:24 *** Gja has joined #openttd 15:19:47 <LordAro> TrueBrain: so spam, interestingly 15:19:53 <LordAro> no* 15:20:27 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 15:20:50 *** agentw4b has joined #openttd 15:20:56 <TrueBrain> hmm, been pushing to that PR like a mofo 15:21:26 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 15:21:36 *** Darkvater has quit IRC 15:22:23 <peter1138> Hmm, should I have a beer? 15:22:35 <andythenorth> the sun is out 15:22:41 <peter1138> It is, but I am no longer. 15:22:48 <andythenorth> I would if I didn't have to drive 15:22:58 <andythenorth> 1st sun in 6 months 15:23:13 <peter1138> There was a bit last week! 15:23:16 <peter1138> Not as much though. 15:23:27 *** Gja has quit IRC 15:23:28 <andythenorth> peter1138 I had my actual coat off 15:23:32 <andythenorth> I left my hat in the van 15:23:36 <andythenorth> it must be summer already 15:23:38 <peter1138> I had my legs out! 15:24:04 <peter1138> Although they were mostly covered in mud. 15:25:50 <TrueBrain> and the errors Jenkins give are totally useless 15:34:07 <TrueBrain> I fully get why people just start a shells cript in Jenkins ... 15:35:37 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 15:38:29 <TrueBrain> finally 15:40:26 <andythenorth> looks like we use a thing called groovy 15:40:35 <andythenorth> and that has logic, that triggers shell scripts 15:40:53 <TrueBrain> yes; that is why groovy is such fail; everyone runs to shell scripts as soon as they possibly can 15:41:25 <TrueBrain> but, the CI now reports in a much nicer way the status to GitHub 15:41:45 <TrueBrain> and it now first runs commit checkers, then clang/gcc on amd64, and only then i386 15:41:58 <TrueBrain> and only after that, when I am done with it, OSX and mingw 15:42:03 <andythenorth> blog post says it's painful eh http://unethicalblogger.com/2017/07/24/groovy-automation-for-jenkins.html 15:42:05 <TrueBrain> so the most likely failures are as early as possible 15:42:08 <TrueBrain> reducing waste on CPU 15:43:30 <LordAro> :) 15:44:28 <TrueBrain> still takes horribly long, but that is just OpenTTD :) 15:46:05 <LordAro> needs more cpus 15:46:07 <LordAro> :p 15:47:22 <TrueBrain> what is really bad design, the 'parallel' statement cannot be restricted 15:47:28 <TrueBrain> os it can really kill the machine 15:47:41 <TrueBrain> normally you do node restriction or so, but because of dockers, that is far from easy 15:47:43 <TrueBrain> meh 15:47:48 <TrueBrain> owh well, it is a bit better now at least :) 15:48:08 <TrueBrain> will add some memory to the machine later; might also greatly help :) 15:48:43 <TrueBrain> ccache might also be really worth it .. 15:48:53 <TrueBrain> now first, food and movie :) 15:54:22 <frosch123> last time we named the project in eints "OpenTTD Trunk"... but "OpenTTD master" sounds weird 15:57:07 <andythenorth> it's still trunk no? 15:57:16 <andythenorth> master is just the git name for that branch eh :P 15:57:32 <andythenorth> if we used hg we wouldn't switch the name to 'default' 15:57:37 <andythenorth> that would be daft :) 15:57:40 <frosch123> well, let's keep it at that, less work converting the eints data 15:57:54 <andythenorth> :) 15:58:08 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i pushed eintsgit.py, works more or less the same as eintssvn.py 15:58:29 <LordAro> could rename the branch to trunk :p 15:58:47 <LordAro> no rules on "master" branch actually being called "master" 15:58:57 <peter1138> No. 16:03:28 <peter1138> Hmm, maybe I should mow the lawn. 16:05:07 *** Pikka has quit IRC 16:12:06 <andythenorth> I'm supposed to be doing yoga to unfuck my back 16:12:15 <andythenorth> but I got distracted playing ottd 16:20:07 <andythenorth> hmm 16:20:12 <andythenorth> someone should make a decent station set 16:25:20 <peter1138> MB did that. 16:25:33 <peter1138> And there's that other one. 16:25:41 <LordAro> is MB the only person who understands grf stations? 16:26:12 <frosch123> i think mart3p did the most advanced stuff 16:26:52 <peter1138> LordAro, nah, I made some too. 16:27:33 <LordAro> i seem to recall the station set Yexo (& andythenorth?) made was for the purposes of working out how to add stations to NML 16:27:40 <LordAro> and then Yexo vanished 16:28:42 <andythenorth> yexo didn't so much vanish, as get a job at Google 16:29:07 <LordAro> oh that's where he went? 16:29:11 <LordAro> figures 16:29:15 <LordAro> @seen Yexo 16:29:15 <DorpsGek> LordAro: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 5 years, 19 weeks, 3 days, 3 hours, 12 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <Yexo> <NGC3982> The station glitches are CHIPS related. I adressed it to Andy the other day, and it seems like it's b0rked in some way. <- it's still in the issue tracker for CHIPS, but I haven't had time to look at it yet 16:29:22 <LordAro> ah, CHIPS 16:29:23 <LordAro> :) 16:30:16 <andythenorth> it's "fine" 16:30:24 <andythenorth> it just lacks a bbit of pzazz 16:35:50 <andythenorth> NML stations for 2020 release? o_O 16:38:09 <peter1138> What's not understandable about newstations? 16:38:12 <peter1138> newgrf station 16:38:34 *** Darkvater has joined #openttd 16:38:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Darkvater 16:39:27 <frosch123> the most silly part is that there are only 4 tile types, when there are 8 possible combinations of flags to assign to them 16:39:49 <frosch123> that makes any high level language beyond arcane 16:43:04 <peter1138> Well, different flags will be either dealt with by callbacks or just different station parts. 16:45:22 *** Flygon has quit IRC 16:45:57 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 16:46:07 <peter1138> Maybe extend the spec to support industry-tile-like layouts. 16:46:25 <peter1138> NML supports that, right? 16:46:45 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 16:47:13 <frosch123> yes, but the most weird aspect is still the track/non-track, pylon/no-pylon, wire/no-wire part 16:47:37 <frosch123> every tilespec can pick 4 of them 16:52:49 <peter1138> In ttdpatch world, non-track were always separate parts. 16:53:34 <peter1138> But we could extend from 4 tiles to something else. 16:53:57 <frosch123> hmm, there are no grfs which combine track and non-track in the same part? 16:54:18 <frosch123> hmm, maybe that is a useful thing to enforce in nml then 16:54:32 <peter1138> Doesn't it support callbacks to effectively have more than 4(8) layouts? 16:54:53 <frosch123> no, you can have many spritelayouts, but only 4 tile layouts 16:55:23 <frosch123> and tile layout only affects the 3 things above, and some "tile layout of adjacent tile" var 16:55:27 <frosch123> (iirc) 16:55:43 <peter1138> CB 14 16:55:53 <peter1138> "You can use this to have more than 4 different sprite sets to choose from." 16:55:53 <frosch123> that's why i would like to completely hide the existence of tile layouts 16:56:18 <frosch123> CB 14 is sprite layout 16:56:26 <frosch123> cb 24 is tile layout 16:56:39 <frosch123> cb 24 is called on constructon and stored in map 16:56:43 <peter1138> Yes 16:56:43 <frosch123> cb 14 is called when drawing 16:56:50 <peter1138> Yup 16:56:55 <frosch123> cb 24 decides non-track, wires, pylons 16:57:00 <frosch123> cb 14 decides rest 16:57:06 <peter1138> Right. 16:57:28 <frosch123> i would like to hide the existence of cb24 :p 16:58:39 <frosch123> i..e. nml should not have a decide-tilelayout callback, but a decide wires/pylon callback 16:58:51 <frosch123> while track/non-track is fixed 16:59:42 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 17:01:34 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 17:01:49 <andythenorth> meh 17:01:59 <frosch123> yoga? 17:01:59 <andythenorth> I posted about stations, but logs show it didn't arrive :P 17:02:44 <andythenorth> "their action 2, 3 chain doesn't work like industries" 17:02:54 <andythenorth> "but eh, it's just weird, not broken" 17:03:21 <frosch123> the a123 thing is a marginal difference imo 17:05:53 <andythenorth> well 17:06:12 <andythenorth> I just find it bizarre that the spritelayout is in the action 0 17:06:13 <andythenorth> https://newgrf-specs.tt-wiki.net/wiki/Action0/Stations#Sprite_layout_.2809.29 17:06:28 <andythenorth> I guess it is what it is 17:13:40 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 17:13:44 *** glx has joined #openttd 17:13:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 17:13:57 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 17:21:05 <peter1138> I imagine if it was developed now it'd be the same as the others. 17:22:35 <andythenorth> nml could hide it away 17:22:44 <andythenorth> although that's a bit weird if you're me 17:23:05 <andythenorth> I often use the nfo docs to write nml :P 17:26:36 <Eddi|zuHause> if we were to revise station spec, i'd suggest splitting non-track from railway stations 17:26:52 <Eddi|zuHause> so you have something resemling an object, but it affects station catchment 17:27:21 <Eddi|zuHause> (and allow for the possibility to affect more than that, like base station rating or rating decay) 17:28:42 <peter1138> Yeah but no, we'd like to keep compatible. 17:28:52 <peter1138> Well, I would. 17:29:03 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, keep the old spec, but make it deprecated 17:29:16 <peter1138> Also, docks. 17:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause> grand unified station spec 17:29:41 <peter1138> Or disjointed. 17:29:50 <peter1138> Airport Tiles are already separate. 17:30:23 <peter1138> See, s/Airport Tiles/Station Tiles/ maybe... 17:31:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i imagine things like "livestock pen: subtract 30 days from 'last visited' time for livestock rating calculation" 17:31:51 <Eddi|zuHause> or 10*(2.5 days), or whatever unit we have there 17:31:51 *** muffindrake3 has joined #openttd 17:31:54 <peter1138> Nothing much seems to be airport specific in them. Hmm. 17:31:58 <peter1138> At least, spec-wise. 17:32:26 <peter1138> Well, other than Airports are their own grf type. 17:32:43 <peter1138> feature, I mean. 17:33:09 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 17:33:35 *** muffindrake2 has quit IRC 17:33:40 <andythenorth> station objects 17:33:44 <andythenorth> station tiles 17:33:53 <andythenorth> any-vehicle-station-tiles 17:33:55 * andythenorth words 17:34:09 <peter1138> Ish. 17:34:10 <Eddi|zuHause> *cough*statemachines*cough* 17:34:15 <peter1138> Road vehicles may need... yeah that. 17:34:28 <peter1138> Also! Diagonal stations! 17:34:32 <peter1138> That was a very old patch :p 17:34:40 <Eddi|zuHause> well those would be trivial if you had statemachines 17:35:31 <Eddi|zuHause> imagine the possibilities, you could have a hopper loading station that loads hoppers one-by-one and sends the train one vehicle forward each time 17:35:58 <peter1138> Oh please. 17:36:26 <andythenorth> :| 17:36:36 <andythenorth> I don't know if it's genius or the worst thing ever :P 17:36:49 <andythenorth> I can watch hopper trains load on YT though :P 17:36:51 <andythenorth> and even have 17:41:13 <peter1138> I'm not sure a single-tile state machine will enable that :p 17:42:57 <andythenorth> sad times 17:43:03 <andythenorth> let's delete the repo :) 17:43:06 <andythenorth> or not 17:46:44 <Eddi|zuHause> well, if you take airports as a base, you probably need a statemachine for a (rectangular?) set of tiles 17:47:27 <Eddi|zuHause> but if you want to extend that to train stations, you need the ability for two state machines to connect to each other to form one platform state machine 18:02:55 *** muffindrake3 is now known as muffindrake 18:06:04 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:11:14 <TrueBrain> glx: we found out that if you push a fake commit to your branch, and push that; then remove the fake commit, and force push that, the PR unlocks :) 18:11:22 <TrueBrain> ("fake" commit is just anything) 18:11:30 <TrueBrain> just as long as it is a new commit 18:11:34 <TrueBrain> guess even an empty commit would do :) 18:12:26 <TrueBrain> WTB: Jenkinsfile reviewer :) 18:13:58 <TrueBrain> frosch123: lol; I merged 2 commits quickly; now the commit-checker failed on the first I merged, as it is not up-ot-date :D (as the second was already on top of it :D) 18:14:05 <TrueBrain> that is funny :D 18:15:04 <frosch123> so you are done with jenkins? 18:15:14 <TrueBrain> yup 18:15:15 <frosch123> i did not know whether you needed that pr just for testing 18:15:26 <TrueBrain> owh, no, it is done :) Check the CI details :) 18:15:30 <TrueBrain> arent they a lot better now? :) 18:15:42 <frosch123> yes, read them earlier 18:15:54 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:16:02 <TrueBrain> wauw, someone did the README :) 18:16:17 <Eddi|zuHause> "WTB" stands for "Weird TrueBrain"? 18:16:45 *** gelignite has quit IRC 18:19:07 *** Gagarin228 has joined #openttd 18:20:06 <TrueBrain> tnx frosch123 :) 18:22:36 <Gagarin228> Hey, guys. I have original Transport Tycoon game (NOT Deluxe) and I want attach graphics from there to OpenTTD. So, I have files TREND.GRF, TRHCOM.GRF and other, is it possible to load it as game graphic set? 18:23:06 <frosch123> no 18:23:14 <Gagarin228> Because OpenTTD "DOS graphic set" is from Deluxe. 18:23:21 <Gagarin228> No any ways? 18:23:27 <frosch123> deluxe has a lot more graphics 18:23:39 <frosch123> you can load original savegames, but you can only use deluxe graphics 18:23:42 <Gagarin228> It is another graphic. 18:23:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Gagarin228: there is a "original conversion set" that tries to incorporate some original graphics 18:24:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Gagarin228: but you still need a standard base set 18:24:21 <Gagarin228> Well. Maybe it is possible in old OTTD versions? 18:24:27 <Eddi|zuHause> no 18:25:01 <Gagarin228> Thanks. 18:25:55 <andythenorth> my OpenTTD cursor keeps locking to left-side of screen 18:25:57 <andythenorth> until I click 18:25:59 <andythenorth> weird eh 18:26:24 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: 235 .. best I can do for today :) :D 18:26:29 <andythenorth> winner 18:26:39 <andythenorth> some actually need fixed eh :) 18:26:50 <TrueBrain> there are a few easy ones 18:27:01 <TrueBrain> but .. it seems it really needs work from there on out :) 18:28:19 <andythenorth> cut out 50 as a targert 18:28:24 <andythenorth> target * 18:28:36 <andythenorth> make a 1.9.x release from it 18:28:46 <andythenorth> or 1.8.x or whatever we're on 18:28:48 <TrueBrain> setting milestones is not a bad idea tbh :) 18:28:50 * andythenorth loses count 18:29:06 <andythenorth> dunno if devs here like milestone thinking, it's a bit like being project managed 18:29:19 <andythenorth> but for FIRS I have a burn-down list for each release 18:29:20 <Eddi|zuHause> bugs go into 1.8.x, features go into 1.9.0 18:29:26 <andythenorth> fair point 18:29:35 <TrueBrain> its just nice to agree on what things you want to fix for the next release :) 18:29:50 <andythenorth> yair 18:29:56 <andythenorth> and maybe group things 18:30:05 <andythenorth> instead of random stuff here and htere 18:30:12 <Eddi|zuHause> people will come at you with "but you promised this would be in release <X>" when you didn't do a thing 18:30:24 <TrueBrain> anyone who says that, send them to me 18:30:31 <TrueBrain> I will show them what I think of that attitude 18:30:40 <andythenorth> paying customers can do that 18:30:55 <TrueBrain> what was the quote .. "I will pay you back the money you paid us for doing this release" 18:31:00 <andythenorth> pretty much 18:31:08 <andythenorth> I return 100% of fee to unsatisfied customers 18:31:08 <TrueBrain> then I will get a stick 18:31:14 <andythenorth> no quibble 18:31:14 <TrueBrain> and see how far I can stick it up .. wait .. wrong story-book 18:31:24 <andythenorth> actually providing any warranty, even money back 18:31:33 <andythenorth> probably violates wording of standard GPL 18:31:52 <andythenorth> hmm 18:31:57 <TrueBrain> I am a really big fan of Agile. I really like the rush of getting stuff done. The commitment really motivates 18:32:01 <andythenorth> +1 18:32:26 <andythenorth> also I have 12 wagons that can carry copper in this grf 18:32:30 <andythenorth> but I want more :P 18:32:40 <TrueBrain> do you also have tin? 18:32:48 <TrueBrain> then I can make brass out of it! 18:33:32 <andythenorth> not in this economy 18:33:34 <andythenorth> it's zinc 18:33:37 <andythenorth> I had tin, but removed it 18:33:48 <TrueBrain> no minecraft fan? Awh :( 18:36:09 <TrueBrain> ccache (faster CI), OSX Docker, vpkg or cmake .. what to do first .. 18:36:27 <LordAro> we've already broken OSX once :) 18:36:37 <TrueBrain> OSX will be a cross-compiler 18:36:41 <TrueBrain> that error would not have been picked up 18:36:45 <LordAro> ah 18:37:01 <Eddi|zuHause> is tin in minecraft nowadays? 18:37:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i only played ancient versions, i think 18:39:50 <LordAro> not without mods 18:40:16 <TrueBrain> owh, I can also look into eints.. guess that is more important 18:40:21 <TrueBrain> but that requires braincells 18:40:23 <TrueBrain> ugh 18:40:53 <andythenorth> I seem to need 3 different kinds of metal wagon :P 18:40:56 <andythenorth> maybe 4 18:40:58 <andythenorth> bit weird 18:47:26 <TrueBrain> right .. this Jenkins job is done, but is not finishing 18:47:28 <TrueBrain> how annoying 18:48:38 <TrueBrain> it didnt see a docker finished 18:48:39 <TrueBrain> oef 18:49:02 <TrueBrain> lets upgrade some things, and try again 18:49:28 <Gagarin228> Well. I think it is possible to port TT graphics from DOS version to set for OTTD, but only manually and by skilled people. This is result after I chose TT’s GRF files in OTTD: http://tinyimg.io/i/mJisQrb.png 18:50:44 <LordAro> i'm honestly surprised it got as far as that 18:51:13 <Gagarin228> I hope, parts of understandable graphics is from old GRF-file, not glitched from another files. 18:51:26 <Gagarin228> Just tried XD 18:51:58 <andythenorth> @calc 136 / 235 18:51:58 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 0.578723404255 18:52:05 <andythenorth> 57% of issues are bugs :) 18:52:10 <LordAro> the point remains though, that you're missing plenty of actual graphics 18:52:12 <andythenorth> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3Abug 18:53:54 <TrueBrain> right ... CF has more memory, and upgraded Jenkins .. lucky enough, that is trivial :D 18:54:10 <TrueBrain> (shutdown, docker pull jenkins/jenkins, ./run_jenkins) :D 18:55:13 <Gagarin228> It is possible to load saved game from TT for DOS, but it looks differently, so I thought about it. 18:56:54 <frosch123> yes, you can load them. it converts everything to the closest match 18:56:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Gagarin228: have you looked at https://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=39317 ? 18:59:25 <andythenorth> 'squash the bugs' milestone? o_O 18:59:30 <andythenorth> not glamorous, but healthy 18:59:49 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: lets give it some room to breath :) 19:00:17 <TrueBrain> yippie, made cloning a lot faster :D Jenkins has a solution for that :D (reference clones) 19:00:45 <TrueBrain> that is going to save a lot of bandwidth :) 19:00:54 <LordAro> :) 19:01:23 <TrueBrain> wait, this machine has 8 cores .. why did I only assign 2 .. 19:02:30 <TrueBrain> glx: I cancelled your build btw :) 19:02:36 <TrueBrain> (so dont be surprised it is red now :D) 19:02:38 *** tokai has joined #openttd 19:02:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 19:03:43 <TrueBrain> glx: yup, now we see the right commit again :) It will be build in a jiffy :) 19:04:40 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 19:05:24 <Eddi|zuHause> <something about Giles and Buffy> 19:05:32 <LordAro> TrueBrain: you should make farm.openttd.org/ redirect somewhere 19:05:44 <TrueBrain> good point 19:05:45 <Eddi|zuHause> man that was a long time ago 19:06:23 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: maybe also a "github.openttd.org"? 19:06:45 <TrueBrain> why? 19:06:53 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea 19:07:00 <Eddi|zuHause> the link in the topic is a bit long though 19:07:17 <TrueBrain> that is a good enough reason 19:07:52 <TrueBrain> LordAro: a pull request that can be described as: the gift that keeps on giving :) 19:08:27 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 19:09:38 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 19:12:15 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 19:13:27 <TrueBrain> glx: please rebase your PR :) 19:13:42 <TrueBrain> we really have to rethink our current demand of rebased before CI works, but .. it is what it is :( 19:14:03 *** muffindrake1 has joined #openttd 19:15:55 *** muffindrake has quit IRC 19:16:06 <frosch123> TrueBrain: should we add an automatic rebase to the ci? 19:16:32 <frosch123> reject if auto-rebase fails 19:16:50 <TrueBrain> I like that idea 19:16:56 <TrueBrain> I really do 19:17:00 <TrueBrain> easy .. efficient 19:17:05 <TrueBrain> let me try that in a bit :) 19:17:20 <TrueBrain> LordAro: redirect in place 19:17:22 <TrueBrain> @op 19:17:23 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o TrueBrain 19:17:42 *** TrueBrain changes topic to "1.8.0 | Website: *.openttd.org (source: github, translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | Logs: @logs | #openttd.dev if this channel is really spammy" 19:17:43 *** TrueBrain sets mode: +l 99 19:17:45 <TrueBrain> @deop 19:17:45 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o TrueBrain 19:17:47 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: there you go 19:17:59 <Eddi|zuHause> aye 19:19:54 <Eddi|zuHause> next idea that i'm not sure about: have "git.openttd.org" as clone url? might mess up people that try to update their old clones 19:20:08 <frosch123> hmm, what is the fastest way to get to an issue if you have the number? 19:20:12 <Gagarin228> Eddi|zuHause: I checked it… Thank you. 19:20:14 <frosch123> i keep on editing the url myself 19:20:24 <TrueBrain> frosch123: is what I do .. 19:20:42 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: you can clone git.openttd.org I think 19:20:44 <Gagarin228> I have graphic conversion for save and save, but can’t use this newrgf in my save 19:20:46 <TrueBrain> as it redirects to github :D 19:20:57 <TrueBrain> just the old URL doesnt work 19:21:00 <TrueBrain> and that is intentional 19:21:20 <TrueBrain> if/when andy is done writing an article for the frontpage, svn://svn.openttd.org is also going to be unavailable 19:21:25 <TrueBrain> (will be svn://svn-archive.openttd.org) 19:21:34 <Eddi|zuHause> alright 19:21:34 <TrueBrain> as otherwise a large portion of people will never notice this :) 19:21:41 <TrueBrain> (upstream maintainers, mostly) 19:22:08 <Gagarin228> Is it possible to change NewGRF for saved game? Or in game. 19:22:32 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: are there fancy "moved permanently" errors you can give out for people trying to access it? 19:23:09 <TrueBrain> as far as I am aware, subversion has no MOTD 19:23:18 <frosch123> he, jenkins also counts the queuing time to the duration... that's why the builds take so differently long 19:23:32 <TrueBrain> frosch123: yes .. it is annoying me :P 19:23:40 <LordAro> svn handles a 301 by telling you about it, rather than following the redirect 19:23:41 <TrueBrain> glx: that didnt go well .. 19:23:43 <LordAro> so people will notice 19:23:46 <TrueBrain> no clue what happened 19:24:02 <TrueBrain> LordAro: 301 over svn protocol? 19:24:03 <glx> I almost broke my local repo ;) 19:24:05 <TrueBrain> what are you smoking? :D 19:24:21 <LordAro> TrueBrain: ...shh 19:24:23 <TrueBrain> :D 19:24:35 <TrueBrain> glx: its really weird honestly .. github should do this for you 19:27:18 <TrueBrain> frosch123: reason it does that (the duration), is because the master is available, the job starts .. then it needs a slave .. and that is blocked :) 19:29:32 <glx> svn was way easier for me :) 19:29:54 <TrueBrain> centralized linear histories always are 19:30:20 <LordAro> it should be simpler than it is currently being 19:30:34 <TrueBrain> with my latest commit, rebasing is no longer a requirement 19:30:38 <TrueBrain> guess that helps 19:31:43 <LordAro> TrueBrain: i don't fully understand the point of doing that, can you explain? 19:31:55 <TrueBrain> what part exactly? 19:31:58 <TrueBrain> rebasing in the CI? 19:32:00 <LordAro> yeah 19:32:11 <TrueBrain> when we are going to merge, we either rebase or squash, so on top 19:32:21 <TrueBrain> the biggest worry we have, that a PR is stale, but no merge conflict 19:32:23 <TrueBrain> so both options work 19:32:34 <TrueBrain> but requiring that PRs are fresh, turns out to be annoying as fuck 19:32:42 <TrueBrain> so there has to be a bit of middleground 19:32:46 <LordAro> ah, i see 19:32:47 <TrueBrain> now we rebase on CI 19:32:58 <TrueBrain> so his result holds true for that current master and the content of the PR 19:33:05 <TrueBrain> even if the PR was a few days old 19:33:15 <TrueBrain> of course if master moves forward, PRs CI result invalidates 19:33:16 <LordAro> makes sense, although it might be unclear to people exactly why their PR fails when running tests on their branch themselves works fine 19:33:25 <TrueBrain> for that you have links :) 19:33:29 <TrueBrain> you can click on a CI failure 19:34:36 <TrueBrain> but of course it is up to the devs to instruct PR-authors how to proceed 19:34:45 <TrueBrain> just a simple: can you please rebase to the latest master, goes a long way :) 19:36:11 <LordAro> yeah, but the rebase can work fine, but still result in a build failure 19:36:16 <TrueBrain> yup 19:36:23 <LordAro> which could be unclear as to the reasons why 19:36:25 <TrueBrain> there is no perfect solution :) 19:36:36 <TrueBrain> but I rather know if I approve something, it will work in master 19:36:50 <TrueBrain> than not have a confused PR author from time to time, and break master more often :) 19:37:11 <TrueBrain> as the current: fail if the PR is not up-to-date, also turns out to be really annoying :) 19:37:44 <glx> even worse if you just rebased before doing the PR ;) 19:38:19 <TrueBrain> ugh .. we need more build nodes :D 19:38:42 <glx> still queued 19:38:54 <TrueBrain> 15 minutes per CI check :) 19:39:13 <glx> and not yet checking MSVC 19:39:30 <TrueBrain> ugh ... indeed 19:39:59 <TrueBrain> I wonder how to add ccache .. having the cache survive is a bit tricky 19:47:33 <Gagarin228> TTO Conversion v1.4.1 working. But it doesn’t much at all, only replaces little of tiles. Anyway I’m already tired for this today. Here is how looks graphics in TT for DOS and (below) "DOS graphic" in OTTD v1.8.0: http://tinyimg.io/i/ITVNrLu.png 19:47:49 <glx> at least CI works this time 19:51:41 *** Gagarin228 has quit IRC 20:06:41 <TrueBrain> tnx glx :) Now lets try if my Jenkins-fix works :D (my PR is no longer up-to-date :D) 20:08:13 <frosch123> 5 succesful checks :) 20:10:43 <frosch123> does git rebase return a negative status on conflicts? 20:10:52 <TrueBrain> I hoped so :D 20:10:53 <TrueBrain> didnt check 20:10:55 <TrueBrain> good question 20:10:58 <TrueBrain> lets find out :D 20:12:03 <frosch123> docs only mention status in case of interactive rebase 20:12:10 <TrueBrain> return code 128 20:14:17 <frosch123> hmm, it only says "required" on the first check 20:14:28 <TrueBrain> yup 20:14:36 <TrueBrain> if he is green, they all are 20:14:57 <TrueBrain> (and if one is red, he is too) 20:15:47 <frosch123> ok, i thought that part was only the clone 20:16:01 <TrueBrain> no; the jenkins entry is the total job that runs 20:16:07 <TrueBrain> I cannot disable or manipulate it :D 20:16:14 <TrueBrain> so I just extended on it, and from there, added a few others 20:16:24 <TrueBrain> it is only meant to easier spot what went wrong 20:31:21 <frosch123> @op 20:31:21 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o frosch123 20:31:47 *** frosch123 sets mode: -l 20:32:08 <frosch123> since when has the channel limit only two digits? 20:32:57 <glx> last bot invasion maybe 20:32:59 <LordAro> but there are 127 people here? 20:33:11 <frosch123> i set it to 150 after the last bots 20:33:12 <glx> or the previous one 20:33:18 <frosch123> now it suddenly was 99, and i cannot set it higher 20:33:53 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 20:33:57 <andythenorth> boom 20:35:01 <frosch123> i guess you cannot reduce the number of people in this channel like you reduced the number of open issues :p 20:35:28 <andythenorth> enforced #openttd break :P 20:35:37 <peter1138> Hmm 20:36:23 <andythenorth> exercise bike lacks a beer holder 20:36:27 <andythenorth> they should remedy that 20:37:17 <LordAro> haha 20:37:25 <peter1138> So I did my exercise today. 20:37:41 <peter1138> And then I went to a bloody all-you-can-eat Chinese buffet restaurant... 20:38:37 <frosch123> was everything fried, or was it a real chinese place? 20:38:42 <andythenorth> oops 20:39:14 <peter1138> Fried? No, not everything. 20:42:02 <andythenorth> @seen pikka 20:42:02 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 12 hours, 55 minutes, and 55 seconds ago: <Pikka> I'll have to try it. could do a multiplayer game again? 20:43:48 <TrueBrain> frosch123: weird .. it was 120 last time I changed the topic 20:44:02 <TrueBrain> euh .. not 120 .. well, above 100 20:44:07 <TrueBrain> as it made me laugh we still had a limit 20:44:27 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 20:44:31 <TrueBrain> [21:17] *** You set the channel limit to 99 nicks.(I18N_PLURAL_ARGUMENT_MISSING) 20:44:35 <TrueBrain> ah ... so I did it with changing the topic 20:44:39 <frosch123> i set it permanently when this channel performed worst on oftc :) 20:44:45 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 20:45:04 <frosch123> one time >1000 bots joined 20:45:05 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: how is the announcement going? :) 20:45:17 <frosch123> ottd was 1st channel on oftc :) 20:45:24 <andythenorth> I was considering closing the paste tab I have open :P 20:45:30 <andythenorth> are comms over-rated? 20:45:56 <TrueBrain> frosch123: w00p! 20:46:02 <TrueBrain> why are we not moving to Slack or something? :) 20:46:04 <TrueBrain> Discord? :P 20:46:10 <TrueBrain> I dislike Discord with many people 20:46:12 <TrueBrain> makes my head spin 20:46:25 <frosch123> how many are many? 20:46:31 <TrueBrain> right, left a pro-GDPR post on the forums :D 20:46:34 <TrueBrain> 10+ 20:46:43 <TrueBrain> here 1 line of text is 1 line of text 20:46:48 <TrueBrain> on Discord it has this whole bla around it 20:47:02 <TrueBrain> 2 lines + a <hr> 20:47:11 <Eddi|zuHause> we should move to freenode! 20:47:17 <TrueBrain> fuck freenode 20:47:32 <TrueBrain> for the shit they pulled, I never forgive them I guess :D 20:47:33 <TrueBrain> not bitter 20:47:48 <glx> I'm on freenode, it's a pain to manage channels 20:48:09 <andythenorth> armchair GDPR stuff eh? 20:48:17 <TrueBrain> armchair? 20:48:50 <frosch123> how about eddi moves to freenode? :p 20:48:53 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 20:49:03 <TrueBrain> frosch123: only if mb goes with him :D 20:49:10 * andythenorth wants an armchair exercise bike 20:49:29 <peter1138> I have a recumbent exercise bike, it's pretty similar. 20:49:34 <frosch123> get a pedel-powered irc chat device 20:49:45 <TrueBrain> and I got cookies 20:50:06 <peter1138> No you don't, I ate them. 20:50:13 <TrueBrain> so I went to amazon.com 20:50:14 <TrueBrain> got plenty moe 20:50:16 <TrueBrain> more 20:50:23 <frosch123> you buy cookies at amazon? 20:50:28 <andythenorth> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/ppjm50e5k 20:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause> better than "I 'ate them" 20:50:39 <andythenorth> not quite a haiku 20:50:43 <andythenorth> I can't hailku 20:50:53 <TrueBrain> frosch123: nope, THEY ARE FREE 20:50:56 <TrueBrain> (even if you dont want to) 20:51:02 <andythenorth> peter1138: is it actually any good, recumbent? 20:51:06 <TrueBrain> lol @ andythenorth 20:51:12 <andythenorth> I sometimes bust my back on an upright back 20:51:16 <andythenorth> bike * 20:51:32 <frosch123> oh, you meant to cookies without sugar and fat 20:51:37 <peter1138> Dunno, I've never done a long ride on a recumbent. 20:51:45 <andythenorth> I ride 10km max in one go 20:51:52 <andythenorth> but I want to do more 20:51:54 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 20:52:04 <peter1138> Well I've done longer than that on it. 20:52:08 <andythenorth> everything goes fine, then 'ping' in my back and sciatica for 3 days 20:52:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the announcement should probably adress some of the things mentioned in the forum, like how the development process is now going to be handled, how to make pull requests, how to continue to use hg for local develipment, how to communicate with the devs and stuff 20:52:37 <andythenorth> it would be funny to put in 50km a day 20:52:48 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that's CONTRIBUTING.md 20:53:05 <peter1138> I did 60km today. 20:53:05 <andythenorth> and mostly tbh I don't care about that stuff, so I'm wrong person to write it 20:53:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that's fine, but it should also be in the announcement 20:53:23 <TrueBrain> so finish CONTRIBUTING.md :D 20:53:25 <LordAro> peter1138: i walked to the shops today and thought that i should've gone riding todya 20:53:32 <andythenorth> let's bikeshed where the words should be 20:53:35 <andythenorth> before there are words :) 20:53:39 <LordAro> hopefully it's as nice weather tomorrow 20:53:47 <andythenorth> legitimate use of bikeshedding here 20:53:56 <LordAro> ha 20:54:00 <peter1138> Yeah, I intend to go tomorrow, after that big fat chinese :( 20:54:11 <andythenorth> I've seen people use 'bikeshedding' to try and avoid sweating details 20:54:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you just want a reason to get out of writing it in the first place :p 20:54:21 <andythenorth> I wrote two already 20:54:27 <andythenorth> nobody thought they were good 20:54:31 <peter1138> I am bikeshedding my bikeshed. 20:54:36 <andythenorth> you should 20:54:39 <andythenorth> what colour? 20:54:53 <LordAro> blue 20:55:30 <frosch123> TrueBrain: why does 6718 fail with "not on top of master"? 20:55:43 <frosch123> oh wait... i know 20:55:54 <frosch123> it's too old to have the jenkinsfile with the rebase :) 20:55:59 <TrueBrain> yes 20:56:05 <TrueBrain> he needs to rebase before he no longer has to rebase :) 20:56:06 <frosch123> this is so weird :) 20:56:31 <TrueBrain> andythenorth / LordAro: but I could really use a CONTRIBUTING.md .. we keep talking about it, but it would be really nice 20:57:00 <frosch123> didn't someone post an example from some other project two days ago? 20:57:08 <andythenorth> I did 20:57:10 <TrueBrain> and then it stopped :( 20:57:11 <andythenorth> Bootstrap 20:57:27 <andythenorth> https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap#contributing 21:00:31 <LordAro> i think some combination of that and a summary of Coding Style wiki page (at least the commit messages section - that's going to be the most common problem i think) would do great 21:00:58 <frosch123> i feel like that page is too long 21:01:09 <frosch123> it should contain links to other pages to split it up 21:02:22 <andythenorth> it's somewhat a github suggestion 21:02:38 <LordAro> frosch123: hence "summary" 21:02:57 <andythenorth> one long CONTRIBUTING.md is kind of suggested https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/community 21:03:00 <andythenorth> we don't have to comply 21:03:00 <LordAro> i agree, the whole doc should be shorter than bootstrap's, imo 21:03:42 <andythenorth> oh yeah we can cut 50% 21:03:54 <andythenorth> etherpad would be nice for this :P 21:04:07 <andythenorth> we don't have one do we? o_O http://etherpad.org/ 21:04:27 <Eddi|zuHause> well, of course nobody will read it. but we need it to point people to when they are wrong 21:04:35 <andythenorth> that's what policy is for 21:04:36 <LordAro> andythenorth: piratepad.net 21:04:36 <andythenorth> always 21:05:00 <andythenorth> we could put it in a PR :P 21:05:04 <andythenorth> and then all bikeshed lines 21:05:18 <andythenorth> let's list sections to delete.... 21:05:33 <andythenorth> - Reporting upstream browser bugs 21:05:40 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be no section 4.2 21:05:40 <andythenorth> - Issues bots 21:05:54 <Eddi|zuHause> because that conflicts with the most referenced readme section :p 21:06:24 <frosch123> "4.2. if you were sent to section 4.2, then 4.2 in [[this document]] was meant" 21:06:56 <andythenorth> where is code style living? 21:07:13 <frosch123> https://wiki.openttd.org/Coding_style 21:07:24 <frosch123> and it's way too long to put into CONTRIBUTING 21:07:31 <andythenorth> ok 21:07:49 <Eddi|zuHause> there used t be an ancient "development blackbook" section of the wiki, that was marked as outdated right from the beginning 21:07:53 <andythenorth> dunno what my hatred for mediawiki styles is :) 21:08:00 <frosch123> probably there should be links to "code style", "documentation style"; "commit message style" and "client-side commit hook" 21:08:00 <andythenorth> maybe it reminds me of old plone 21:09:12 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe mediawiki is your equivalent to brusselssprouts? :p 21:09:38 <andythenorth> maybe 21:09:47 <andythenorth> bikeshedding again :) 21:10:22 * andythenorth tries reducing Bootstrap 21:11:12 <andythenorth> we can steal Bootstrap's, yes? 21:11:14 <andythenorth> it's MIT 21:12:07 <TrueBrain> just mention it etc 21:16:27 <peter1138> Failed to get repository: database is locked 21:16:29 <peter1138> Hmm :/ 21:19:27 <andythenorth> first draft https://github.com/andythenorth/OpenTTD/blob/CONTRIBUTING.md/CONTRIBUTING.md 21:19:33 <andythenorth> just a cut of stuff we don't need 21:19:40 <andythenorth> could PR it if we want to line-by-line comment :P 21:20:28 <andythenorth> I think it can lose another 30% tbh 21:21:44 <frosch123> i agree on not listing the issue labels 21:22:34 <andythenorth> when you have got to end, I'll revise another draft 21:22:35 <frosch123> "check if the issue has been fixed" should probably mention nightly instead of master 21:23:54 *** agentw4b has quit IRC 21:24:10 <andythenorth> noted 21:25:04 *** synchris has quit IRC 21:26:55 <TrueBrain> "You must select a language other than 'text' for this paste." wtf? 21:27:21 <TrueBrain> why on earth?! 21:27:25 <andythenorth> :P 21:27:38 <frosch123> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p6i0d6s56 <- andythenorth: that would be our fork process 21:27:54 <TrueBrain> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pqvtxnohu/dgwdag/raw 21:28:46 <frosch123> wow, when did you write that? 21:29:07 <TrueBrain> fuck kittens: https://paste.openttdcoop.org/p2nfigexy 21:29:20 <TrueBrain> frosch123: in the time between andythenorth showing his poem and now 21:29:46 <TrueBrain> https://paste.openttdcoop.org/pkauruwhw 21:29:48 <TrueBrain> fuck pastebin 21:29:50 <TrueBrain> it is annoying 21:29:56 <frosch123> his -> its 21:30:05 <TrueBrain> which his? :P 21:30:14 <frosch123> openttd is not male 21:30:15 <TrueBrain> okay, we need a beter way to fix my spelling errors :D 21:30:50 <TrueBrain> as I am sure you have many more things to fix frosch123 :D 21:30:56 <TrueBrain> (my grammer is not that good) 21:31:15 <LordAro> grammar 21:31:18 <TrueBrain> :D 21:31:19 <LordAro> :p 21:31:26 <TrueBrain> what is a good online tool for sharing documents that doesnt need downloading? 21:31:54 <LordAro> for collaborative editing? google docs, probably 21:32:03 <LordAro> piratepad is a bit simpler 21:32:45 <TrueBrain> http://piratepad.net/rYjvZcpX9r 21:32:50 <TrueBrain> frosch123: feel free to make any changes :) 21:33:58 <TrueBrain> somehow it become tits :D 21:34:32 <frosch123> TrueBrain: somewhere the fs migration should mention that issue numbers were kept 21:34:39 <TrueBrain> good point 21:34:43 <TrueBrain> hmm .. piratepad no workie 21:34:54 <TrueBrain> lost connection :D 21:35:04 <TrueBrain> LordAro: what did you do?! :P 21:35:32 <LordAro> hmm 21:37:08 <LordAro> ok yeah, this sucks 21:37:10 <TrueBrain> ffs ... every time I lose connection when I am typing 21:37:13 <TrueBrain> other suggestions? 21:37:27 <TrueBrain> connection simply goes stale 21:37:49 <LordAro> https://hackmd.io/bkZVDdxBRbuy9ifeWn_D5w how about this one? does markdown too 21:38:19 <TrueBrain> lets go for that 21:38:20 <andythenorth> CONTRIBUTING is now shorter again 21:38:21 <andythenorth> https://github.com/andythenorth/OpenTTD/blob/CONTRIBUTING.md/CONTRIBUTING.md 21:38:32 <andythenorth> and I stole some TB words about closing feature requests 21:40:14 <andythenorth> also this is probably a whole extra post some day "This of course means that "official" OpenTTD gets into competition with Patchpacks; and we approve of this. We are fully aware it can lead to a Patchpack being more popular than "official" OpenTTD; and we will be upfront about that." 21:40:14 <__ln__> "We ditched .... I strongy advise ..." 21:40:54 <andythenorth> ^^ enabling patchpacks is a strong argument for keeping core minimal, and continuing to push as much as possible onto content 21:41:02 <andythenorth> but also not making the content APIs batshit crazy 21:43:28 <TrueBrain> added some stuff about VCSes 21:43:29 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'd spell it "AIs" instead of "AIS" 21:43:43 <andythenorth> changed 21:44:14 <TrueBrain> who ever added \ before +, I copy/paste this on tt-forums; no need for \ :) 21:44:37 <TrueBrain> or do you suggest I copy/paste the render? :D 21:44:53 <TrueBrain> I like that piratepad showed what was edited :P 21:45:13 <andythenorth> we use etherpad at work for similar thing 21:45:22 <TrueBrain> it needed a download :( 21:45:24 <andythenorth> it's really good for spec, also ops firefighting 21:45:37 <andythenorth> also drafting customer emails 21:47:10 <TrueBrain> sadly, I'm in the line of work where putting anything on any cloud is a big no-no 21:47:13 <TrueBrain> makes these things often a bit harder 21:47:31 <Eddi|zuHause> "¿¿ LIST OF KNOWN FEATURES THAT IDEALLY WOULD BE BETTER (RV OVERTAKING ETC) ??" <-- drop this 21:47:45 <andythenorth> hoped you'd say that 21:47:51 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: we host our own etherpad 21:48:07 <andythenorth> we're very limited on public cloud services we can use 21:48:17 <andythenorth> ISO 27001 innit 21:48:31 <frosch123> TrueBrain: awesome text :) 21:48:37 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: at best, a link to a wiki page tracking "good" feature requests. or simply a link to the forums 21:48:38 <TrueBrain> ty :) 21:49:00 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that wiki page exists and is rotting horribly :) 21:49:11 <andythenorth> I just wonder if it shold be like known_bugs.txt 21:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i would expect so :p 21:49:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: possible, but then have it in a separate file 21:49:55 <andythenorth> https://wiki.openttd.org/Requested_features 21:50:00 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: problem is, it still has to be kept up to date 21:50:14 <andythenorth> it's not hard imho 21:50:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so forum is really probably the only place to go 21:50:23 <andythenorth> it's 5 lines 21:50:26 <andythenorth> - overtaking: no 21:50:30 <andythenorth> - subways: no 21:50:37 <andythenorth> - signals on bridges: no 21:50:41 <andythenorth> - diagonal roads: no 21:50:50 <andythenorth> - tunnels under sea: no 21:50:50 <andythenorth> done 21:50:55 <LordAro> haha 21:51:22 <andythenorth> incidentally the average forum / FS requester overlaps strongly with my 8 year old 21:51:42 <andythenorth> he has many many ideas 21:52:04 <__ln__> win-win-win-win = -2win 21:52:21 <Eddi|zuHause> "The issue tracker is the preferred channel for bug reports, features requests and submitting pull requests, but please respect the following restrictions:" <-- i'd take feature requests out of this sentence 21:52:21 <andythenorth> oh look I edited this sometime https://wiki.openttd.org/Requested_features#How_to_request_a_feature 21:52:56 <andythenorth> done Eddi|zuHause 21:52:58 <andythenorth> thanks 21:53:29 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be an explanation what a "pull request" is for people who never heard that word before 21:54:01 <andythenorth> can't they google? o_O 21:54:08 <Eddi|zuHause> no. 21:54:13 <andythenorth> if they can't, they won't be able to learn C++ 21:54:23 <Eddi|zuHause> wrong argument 21:54:32 <andythenorth> provide a better one? o_O 21:54:45 <__ln__> i started learning C++ before google existed 21:55:05 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: I added eggs to my text :D 21:55:18 <andythenorth> is it in forums yet? 21:55:26 <TrueBrain> no 21:55:30 <TrueBrain> still reading it over 21:55:52 <andythenorth> very responsible :) 21:58:07 <TrueBrain> NO STOP THAT 21:58:10 <TrueBrain> ARGH 21:58:13 <LordAro> i know 21:58:13 <TrueBrain> I am guess LordAro 21:58:19 <TrueBrain> stooppppp making it non copy/pastable :) 21:58:28 <LordAro> it's just the one! 21:58:37 <TrueBrain> its enough! :P 21:58:54 <TrueBrain> its not a markup post! :P 21:59:26 <LordAro> not really an issue as such, but the number of ; in it is interesting 21:59:32 <LordAro> native speakers rarely use ; at all 21:59:38 <TrueBrain> I love ; 21:59:44 <TrueBrain> people dont use it enough 21:59:49 <TrueBrain> I cannot use it in Dutch 21:59:54 <LordAro> ^^ 21:59:55 <TrueBrain> well, I can, but not really 21:59:59 <TrueBrain> so yeah ... :D 22:00:09 <TrueBrain> in English it doesnt do anything really :) 22:00:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i find myself using , in a lot of places other people would use . 22:01:11 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes i go back over sentences changing some , into . 22:01:34 <LordAro> i've found myself using far too many , as well 22:01:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no real use for ; 22:01:59 <TrueBrain> the use of ,is far more strict than I would like; hence the ; :D 22:02:11 <LordAro> most people would say the opposite :p 22:02:12 <TrueBrain> (a typical case where I could have used it in Dutch .. dammit!) 22:02:33 <frosch123> i approve any excessive use of ; 22:02:36 <TrueBrain> I leave LordAro making tons of grammar fixes for a bit :) 22:03:07 <TrueBrain> let me know when you are done :) 22:03:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't really care about other people's rules for , then :p 22:03:39 <TrueBrain> in Dutch the , is even worse. Everything between two , you should be able to remove, without the lose of context 22:03:44 <TrueBrain> basically it means you can never use it :P 22:03:52 <TrueBrain> you can only use it to shit on things 22:04:57 <TrueBrain> I do like to use words in these text that are less common 22:05:06 <TrueBrain> I managed to get quiet a few in there 22:05:15 <TrueBrain> most happy with 'ample' in the right context :) 22:05:42 <TrueBrain> I love languages; which is ironic, as I am dyslectic :D 22:09:44 <TrueBrain> 9500 characters .. I might have overdone this :P 22:19:17 <andythenorth> :P 22:19:20 <andythenorth> nah 22:19:26 <andythenorth> mine was less though ;) 22:19:33 <TrueBrain> yours is included! :P 22:20:15 <andythenorth> save chars, remove it :) 22:20:18 <andythenorth> also I bed 22:20:24 <TrueBrain> sleep well 22:20:33 <andythenorth> it will all be done when I wake eh? 22:20:45 <TrueBrain> yes 22:20:53 <andythenorth> awesome 22:20:54 <andythenorth> bye 22:20:54 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 22:23:01 <LordAro> TrueBrain: oki, i'm done 22:23:07 <TrueBrain> cool; tnx a lot :D 22:23:14 <LordAro> had a friend who's recently finished their PhD look over it :) 22:23:20 <LordAro> lots of proofreading there 22:23:28 <TrueBrain> lol 22:23:31 <TrueBrain> bit overkill :D 22:28:49 <TrueBrain> how to post on the frontpage .... 22:32:19 <TrueBrain> frosch123: it is done 22:32:50 <LordAro> :o 22:34:35 <TrueBrain> all links work :) 22:35:11 <LordAro> :) 22:35:37 <TrueBrain> achievement unlocked 22:35:45 <TrueBrain> not sure which 22:35:49 <TrueBrain> but I am sure it has to be one 22:36:13 *** GT has joined #openttd 22:36:22 <frosch123> does twitter audience care? 22:36:26 <TrueBrain> I wonder when/if this will be picked up by news 22:36:31 <TrueBrain> sure, go for it 22:36:35 <Eddi|zuHause> we have a twitter audience? 22:36:37 <frosch123> which news? 22:36:48 <frosch123> dutch tv? 22:36:48 <TrueBrain> any 22:36:53 <TrueBrain> haha, no, not that :D 22:37:10 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD used to be a lot on tweakers.net, popular dutch site 22:37:18 <TrueBrain> always curious if/how fast news travels 22:37:36 <TrueBrain> but haven't seen 1.8 announcement .. so I guess the relation got a bit cold :) 22:37:56 <TrueBrain> owh, I just missed it 22:38:03 <GT> After last Gentoo emerge I cannot connect to any multiservers anymore, could it be because revision is 1.8.0-RC1 and not 1.8.0? 22:38:05 <frosch123> i wore the starcraft and factorio shirts at work, only one guy (different ones) recognised them 22:38:17 <TrueBrain> GT: spot on :) 22:38:25 <TrueBrain> frosch123: wuth?! 22:38:30 <Eddi|zuHause> GT: 1.8.0-RC1 is something very different from 1.8.0 22:38:31 <TrueBrain> you have the wrong type of work :) 22:38:33 <GT> Can I change that rev. 22:38:44 <TrueBrain> 1.8.0-RC1 is, as the name suggests, not the same as 1.8.0 22:38:46 <Eddi|zuHause> GT: only by installing the correct version 22:38:49 <TrueBrain> so changing the rev is not sufficient 22:38:55 <TrueBrain> you have to upgrade to 1.8.0 22:39:17 <TrueBrain> (RC stands for Release Candidate; it is not meant for public release) 22:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause> GT: we check for exact version match for a reason 22:40:02 <GT> Yes, but Gentoo portage does not offer that 22:40:09 <Eddi|zuHause> GT: because even tiny changes (probably) make it incompatible for multiplayer purposes 22:40:16 <TrueBrain> I guess your next visit will be to the Gentoo maintainer chat channel :) 22:40:31 <TrueBrain> (or you can try our generic binaries on the website!) 22:40:41 <TrueBrain> or, of course, compile it yourself... that is what emerge does anyway :D 22:42:07 <GT> Well, I have a parallel version that I svn up to to the nightlies, I suppose compiling 180 should not be more difficult 22:42:34 <frosch123> today is our twitter anniversary 22:42:38 <frosch123> who cares? :p 22:42:40 <TrueBrain> git clone https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD && cd OpenTTD && git checkout release/1.8.0 && ./configure && make 22:42:42 <TrueBrain> or something 22:42:46 <TrueBrain> frosch123: PARTY!!!! :D 22:42:58 <TrueBrain> hmm, maybe better to pick the tag 22:43:03 <TrueBrain> git clone https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD && cd OpenTTD && git checkout tags/1.8.0 && ./configure && make 22:43:19 <LordAro> should just be git checkout 1.8.0 22:43:36 <TrueBrain> testing ....... 22:44:04 <TrueBrain> git clone https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD && cd OpenTTD && git checkout 1.8.0 && ./configure && make 22:44:07 <TrueBrain> GT: ^^ :) 22:44:15 <ST2> git clone --branch 1.8.0 https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD.git 22:44:19 <ST2> is that the same? 22:44:31 <TrueBrain> try it out :) 22:44:43 <Eddi|zuHause> git is like "WAAAH YOU HAVE A DETACHED HEAD!!!" 22:44:49 <ST2> I've used it... only asking to confirm xD 22:44:58 <TrueBrain> doesnt that confirm it on its own :D :) 22:45:14 <ST2> check check 22:45:16 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: that is how I role .. with a detached head :D 22:45:17 <ST2> thx :) 22:45:41 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:46:24 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, for the past ~whatever years my openttd complains that "weekly" is not a valid value for autosave... i should maybe fix that at some point? :p 22:46:54 <GT> Thanks TB, I'll manage to compile it. But it would not hurt to trigger Gentoo nontheless, seems they only provide test version anyway. 22:47:21 <TrueBrain> sadly we have little influence on what downstream maintainers do :( 22:48:19 <TrueBrain> indeed seems they often don't pick up our stables 22:48:21 <GT> I always have to package.accept_keywords it 22:50:07 <Eddi|zuHause> my openttd checkout names are weird... "cargodist" "cargodist-old" "cargodist-halfold" 22:50:35 <TrueBrain> right, off to bed; night! 22:52:22 <Eddi|zuHause> so, as far as i can tell, the weekly autosave is from a game i played in 2011 22:52:31 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:53:04 <Eddi|zuHause> (using chillpp) 22:58:57 *** GT has left #openttd 23:03:10 *** GT has joined #openttd 23:04:17 *** GT has left #openttd 23:09:19 <frosch123> haha, this time twitter located my login to some 20k inhabitants-town even further away than the usual nuremberg 23:09:27 <frosch123> but at least i learn some geography that way 23:10:37 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 23:25:51 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 23:44:57 *** Progman has quit IRC