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00:22:23 <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me of the bug with very old games which ran way too fast on "modern" computers (386 with 25MHz), and the "solution" was to run them under windows, because that slowed everything down :p 00:23:29 *** Thedarkb1-X40 has quit IRC 00:23:46 *** Thedarkb1-X40 has joined #openttd 00:43:00 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 00:48:25 *** Thedarkb1-X40 has quit IRC 00:55:44 *** goudy[m] has joined #openttd 00:57:17 *** goudy[m] has left #openttd 01:19:11 *** glx has quit IRC 01:34:53 *** cHawk has quit IRC 01:43:16 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 02:07:43 *** tokai has joined #openttd 02:07:43 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 02:08:03 *** ZehMatt_ has joined #openttd 02:09:09 *** TrueBrain_ has joined #openttd 02:09:19 *** Mek_ has joined #openttd 02:09:56 *** som89 has joined #openttd 02:10:16 *** argoneus_ has joined #openttd 02:10:23 *** berndj-blackout has joined #openttd 02:10:58 *** orudge` has joined #openttd 02:11:17 *** som89_ has quit IRC 02:11:17 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** lastmikoi has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** planetmaker has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** Terkhen has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** avdg has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** Ammler has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** Sheogorath has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** [dpk] has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** ZehMatt has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** TrueBrain has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** Mek has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** argoneus has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** crem has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** jonty-comp has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** KouDy has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** __ln__ has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** rustyshackleford[m] has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** UncleCJ has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** Sacro has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** triolus[m] has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** Rubidium has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** Xaroth has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** Yotson has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** blathijs has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** berndj has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** urdh has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** orudge has quit IRC 02:11:18 *** D-HUND has joined #openttd 02:11:27 *** Rubidium has joined #openttd 02:11:31 *** __ln__ has joined #openttd 02:11:38 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Rubidium 02:11:39 *** Yotson has joined #openttd 02:11:40 *** urdh has joined #openttd 02:11:43 *** crem has joined #openttd 02:11:49 *** jonty-comp has joined #openttd 02:11:50 *** dpk has joined #openttd 02:11:51 *** avdg has joined #openttd 02:11:51 *** planetmaker has joined #openttd 02:11:51 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker 02:12:00 *** Sacro has joined #openttd 02:12:20 *** lastmikoi has joined #openttd 02:12:21 *** Ammler has joined #openttd 02:13:01 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 02:13:01 *** Terkhen has joined #openttd 02:13:01 *** ZehMatt has joined #openttd 02:13:01 *** debdog has joined #openttd 02:13:01 *** TrueBrain has joined #openttd 02:13:01 *** Xaroth has joined #openttd 02:13:01 *** argoneus has joined #openttd 02:13:01 *** triolus[m] has joined #openttd 02:13:01 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 02:13:01 *** rustyshackleford[m] has joined #openttd 02:13:01 *** UncleCJ has joined #openttd 02:13:01 *** berndj has joined #openttd 02:13:01 *** dacia.oftc.net sets mode: +vo tokai|noir Terkhen 02:13:12 *** blathijs has quit IRC 02:13:13 *** TrueBrain has quit IRC 02:13:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Terkhen 02:13:37 *** argoneus has quit IRC 02:13:42 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 02:13:42 *** ZehMatt has quit IRC 02:13:42 *** debdog has quit IRC 02:13:42 *** berndj has quit IRC 02:13:52 *** Xaroth has quit IRC 02:13:54 *** Sheogorath has joined #openttd 02:17:32 *** KouDy has joined #openttd 02:30:22 *** cHawk has joined #openttd 02:53:58 *** blathijs has joined #openttd 02:55:13 *** muffindrake1 has joined #openttd 03:02:03 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 03:02:30 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 03:20:50 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 03:33:21 *** muffindrake1 is now known as muffindrake 04:00:35 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 04:10:09 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest945 04:10:10 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 04:15:16 *** Guest945 has quit IRC 04:24:58 *** Cubey has quit IRC 04:25:00 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 04:25:23 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest948 04:25:24 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 04:27:12 *** Guest948 has quit IRC 04:45:52 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has quit IRC 04:56:30 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 05:04:23 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 05:24:28 *** Gja has joined #openttd 05:34:19 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 05:37:05 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 05:40:41 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 05:47:53 *** Gja has quit IRC 06:20:44 *** Laedek has quit IRC 06:21:52 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 06:27:12 *** som89 has quit IRC 06:33:23 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 06:37:18 *** som89 has joined #openttd 06:45:34 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 06:45:46 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 06:47:59 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 06:50:40 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:50:46 <Pikka> o/ 06:55:36 <andythenorth> lo bird 06:57:00 <Pikka> lo 07:01:21 <andythenorth> is it done? o_O 07:01:47 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 07:03:03 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on your definition of "is", "it", "done" and possibly "o_O" 07:03:51 <andythenorth> words 07:06:51 * Pikka got distracted watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3qbvY0ghOs 07:10:17 <andythenorth> lawks 07:29:40 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 07:59:08 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 08:19:27 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 08:27:30 <peter1138> larks 08:30:38 *** som89_ has joined #openttd 08:32:48 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 08:34:27 *** som89 has quit IRC 08:54:08 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 08:55:27 <andythenorth> oops 08:55:45 <andythenorth> I removed lots of sprites, because symmetric trains 08:55:53 <andythenorth> then I drew some of them asymmetric :P 09:11:16 <V453000> \ 09:11:17 <V453000> or 09:11:20 <V453000> / 09:11:23 <V453000> FUCKING windows 09:11:42 <V453000> I iz making pythony things and it's such a mess 09:14:46 <peter1138> So anyone rendering vehicle sprites but using a good amount of sharpening so it's not blurry? 09:15:14 <peter1138> Also, when do we get 3D models in game :D 09:16:07 <andythenorth> they are 3D 09:16:11 <andythenorth> they have x, y, z :P 09:16:19 <peter1138> Yeah no. 09:16:21 <andythenorth> V453000: WHAT ARE YOU DOING 09:16:22 <andythenorth> ?? 09:16:47 <peter1138> andythenorth, i'm sure a modern game that wasn't in C++ could do it easily, without specs. 09:16:58 <andythenorth> peter1138: probably just use a unity plugin 09:17:05 <andythenorth> don't worry about the CVEs 09:17:17 <andythenorth> I could rebuild OpenTTD in Flash if you want 09:17:19 <V453000> making a drop-folder-on-python-script, 32bpp x4, 32bpp x1, 8bpp x4, 8bpp x1 comes out automatically 09:17:25 <andythenorth> although my skills are a bit 15 years ago 09:17:26 <peter1138> javascript 09:17:31 <andythenorth> that's done isn't it? 09:17:35 <andythenorth> use node.js 09:17:41 <peter1138> Natively though 09:17:44 <V453000> making spritesheet, scaling, converting with the other tool 09:17:46 <andythenorth> because even unskilled developers can write highly performant apps 09:18:22 <peter1138> Do you still use spritesheets or individual images? 09:18:39 <V453000> spritesheets for each vehicle in each rotations 09:18:44 <V453000> but not the giant things I had before 09:19:02 <peter1138> Yeah, giant one-image-for-the-whole-set is silly. 09:19:20 <V453000> it wasn't so silly when I didn't have the automatic 8bpp converter 09:19:28 <peter1138> Heh 09:19:36 <andythenorth> kind of unwieldy to QA 09:19:53 <andythenorth> V453000: what is this 'drop folder' shit? 09:20:09 <peter1138> I'd probably use individual sprites if I was rendering. Image at 0,0, only thing to set is the offset. 09:20:10 <andythenorth> why do you have to manually intervene? 09:20:10 <andythenorth> if you use a mouse while compiling, that's wrong 09:20:16 <V453000> andythenorth: not having to use any commands to launch the thing 09:20:33 <peter1138> Have one command and double click :D 09:20:36 <V453000> just select folder(s) and it does the thing 09:20:45 <andythenorth> peter1138: that's inefficient to QA 09:20:48 <V453000> hey, it's useful for me :P 09:20:50 <peter1138> That's not particularly automated. 09:20:59 <peter1138> andythenorth, probably but easier to rendering. 09:21:01 <V453000> it's able to run from a command too peter1138 09:21:04 <peter1138> andythenorth, hand-drawn, no. 09:21:23 <andythenorth> well 09:21:32 <peter1138> V453000, then I'd script it so it's repeatable rather than relying on a drag&drop operation that could go wrong with misclicks. 09:21:33 * andythenorth back to automating spritesheets :P 09:21:38 <peter1138> Yay 09:21:41 <andythenorth> I am using the word 'gestalt' a lot 09:21:45 <peter1138> Let's just make tools instead of doing the thing. 09:21:59 <andythenorth> it is quite satisfying 09:21:59 <peter1138> Cubicles! 09:22:02 <V453000> ^ :) 09:22:11 <andythenorth> 'boom' look at my automation 09:22:20 <andythenorth> "with one shell command I can script my entire editor" 09:22:22 <andythenorth> or something 09:22:22 <V453000> the players love it andy 09:22:36 <andythenorth> they love the automated compile? o_O 09:22:40 <V453000> sure 09:22:50 <andythenorth> they'll love it if we ever ship anything :P 09:22:54 <andythenorth> remember how we used to ship? 09:22:54 <V453000> it's the n1 feature for them 09:22:56 <andythenorth> often? 09:23:04 <andythenorth> now we don't ship, all hype machines 09:23:14 <V453000> yes I had like 4 nuts releases per week :D 09:23:21 <andythenorth> I haven't shipped anything for months 09:23:27 <V453000> me neither 09:23:28 <andythenorth> except three fixes to FIRS 09:23:34 <andythenorth> 2 of the 3 were fixes to the fix 09:23:46 <andythenorth> V453000: it's because it's C++ 09:23:50 <peter1138> Let's use minecraft with a custom graphics set to create voxel models and then screenshot them to pngs... 09:23:52 <andythenorth> and the need for specs 09:23:57 <andythenorth> peter1138: plausible 09:24:01 <andythenorth> also we can make MC mods 09:24:06 <V453000> my current plan is to make the prototype with mostly placeholder graphics, let people play it, do updates and make graphics at the same time 09:24:09 <andythenorth> they're compiled to a JIT and super reliable 09:24:10 <V453000> it's basically what I did with NUTS 09:24:22 <andythenorth> and it doesn't matter if they don't work, because change is what players want 09:24:25 <andythenorth> new things 09:24:26 <V453000> when I realize how unfinished NUTS 0.0.1 was compared to latest, it's ridiculous 09:24:28 <andythenorth> they don't have to work 09:24:30 <andythenorth> just be new 09:24:36 <peter1138> but it worked! 09:24:38 <V453000> but of course when designing I am aiming for latest level immediately 09:24:44 <peter1138> (except those bugs, but we ignore those) 09:24:50 <andythenorth> I have a TouchBar mac because Players need New Things 09:24:53 <andythenorth> It Doesn't Work 09:24:56 <andythenorth> but that's secondary 09:25:02 <V453000> :D 09:25:02 <andythenorth> tech bloggers were being mean to Apple 09:25:03 <V453000> great. 09:25:10 <andythenorth> so now I have a stupid thing that doesn't work 09:25:12 <peter1138> Is it lunch time yet? I'm going with no but my tummy is grumbling. 09:25:17 <andythenorth> coffee 09:25:20 <andythenorth> then gaviscon 09:25:21 <peter1138> I have tea. 09:25:22 <V453000> drugs 09:25:23 <andythenorth> the ultimate combo 09:25:32 <peter1138> I don't need Gaviscon, yay. 09:25:32 <V453000> I'm on python now, it's a good trip 09:25:40 <andythenorth> V453000 you should make a grf called 'drugs' 09:25:47 <andythenorth> I can't let my kids play though 09:25:53 <peter1138> I was on it for about a year, pointlessly, because it was my bloody gall-bladder that was being a cunt. 09:25:59 <peter1138> Silly doctors. 09:26:03 <andythenorth> I just eat it for fun 09:26:15 <peter1138> They whipped it out in hospital last year. 09:26:28 <andythenorth> do you have trouble processing fatty foods now? 09:26:31 <peter1138> And Gaviscon tastes a bit nasty. 09:26:32 <peter1138> Nope. 09:26:35 <andythenorth> k 09:26:41 <andythenorth> someone I know had gall bladder out 09:26:58 <andythenorth> digressing, will Net Nanny stuff ban kids from FIRS? 09:27:03 <peter1138> Yes, me. 09:27:12 <andythenorth> someone else than you 09:27:21 <peter1138> But fattiest stuff I eat anyway tends to be gourmet hipster style burgers. 09:27:57 <andythenorth> FIRS has Coke, Slag, Acid 09:28:01 <andythenorth> also Alcohol 09:28:04 <andythenorth> Explosives 09:28:05 <peter1138> Antacid. 09:28:07 <andythenorth> think of the children 09:28:13 <peter1138> NO VIOLENCE 09:28:15 <andythenorth> even Fertiliser and Oil 09:28:19 <dihedral> greetings 09:28:23 <peter1138> Mr dihedral! 09:28:31 <dihedral> hi 09:28:39 <dihedral> Mr peter1138 09:28:40 <andythenorth> allegedly, in early internet days, searching for 'Fertiliser' and 'Diesel' got you flagged on Echelon 09:28:49 <andythenorth> due to the desire to blow things up that way 09:29:08 <andythenorth> 'allegedly' 09:29:24 <andythenorth> also there are Reefers in my newgrfs 09:29:37 <V453000> if you had a vehicle which can run on road and rail, how would you expect it's performance to change based on these tracks? 09:29:47 <andythenorth> and there's an engine called Northcock, which is zero euphemism, but someone is inevitably going to think it is 09:29:56 <V453000> road for more tractive effort, rail for more speed? vice versa? 09:30:12 *** som89_ has quit IRC 09:30:40 <andythenorth> https://www.cockothenorth.co.uk/ 09:30:54 <andythenorth> V453000: this is railtype hax? 09:30:58 <andythenorth> or you patching core? :P 09:31:13 <V453000> well I have rails which look like water, roads are next 09:31:14 <andythenorth> child #1 wants to know when we're doing trains that go on road too 09:31:42 *** som89 has joined #openttd 09:31:54 <V453000> this is pretty much that, and it has the bonus feature of diagonal roads :P 09:31:55 <V453000> boom 09:31:59 <andythenorth> Pikka: shall I streamline my 2-8-2 and please the crowd? o_O 09:32:02 <andythenorth> crowd of one 09:32:08 <andythenorth> ^^^^ link above 09:40:39 <Pikka> maybe, maybe not 09:41:07 <andythenorth> only if it looks hench 09:41:28 <andythenorth> Pikka: is your pendolino done yet? :P 09:41:42 <Pikka> oh, that pendolino 09:42:03 <andythenorth> am I on a pendolino? 09:42:06 * andythenorth looks 09:42:17 <andythenorth> no I'm on a Super Voyager thing 09:42:26 <Pikka> handy 09:42:39 <andythenorth> or maybe it's not Super 09:42:46 <andythenorth> doesn't seem to tilt 09:43:06 <Pikka> maybe they turned the tilting off 09:43:09 <Pikka> or it broke 09:43:17 * Pikka tracking tabled Av32, because that was a useful thing to do 09:43:26 <andythenorth> seems to be locked out according to wikipedia 09:43:34 <andythenorth> it's always nice to design a new one 09:43:41 <andythenorth> rather than draw the current one 09:43:47 <Pikka> yes 09:43:58 <andythenorth> I am thinking about NARS3 09:44:08 <andythenorth> GP38, caboose, done? 09:46:29 <Pikka> 4-4-0, Big Boy, F7, GP38, SD40-2, ES44AC. That's probably about right. 09:47:02 <andythenorth> can I ignore the cabbage? 09:47:13 <Pikka> definitely 09:47:14 <andythenorth> "Just say no to DVTs" 09:47:32 <andythenorth> some of this train is missing... http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9020/horse_skeleton.png 09:47:45 <andythenorth> that's what happens when the sides are stuck on in the compile 09:47:48 <andythenorth> and they're not drawn yet 09:47:57 <Pikka> nice 09:48:02 <andythenorth> I thought so 09:51:39 <peter1138> Skeleton Horses in Minecraft were pretty scary. 09:51:44 <peter1138> Briefly. 09:52:41 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 09:59:22 <Sacro> Where is UKRS7 :( 09:59:31 <Pikka> mmm, minecraft. now there's a game that gets it right when it comes to modern scripting language, half-finished features with no coherent design, and not caring about backwards compatibility 09:59:41 <andythenorth> Sacro: it's UKRSn+1 now 09:59:51 <Pikka> ukrs half-past-nine 09:59:56 <andythenorth> Pikka: but look at the community!! 10:00:04 <andythenorth> there are only two industry sets for OpenTTD 10:00:08 <Pikka> such active modding 10:00:11 <andythenorth> one is dead, and the other has only made tiny improvements 10:00:26 <Pikka> never mind the fact that it's only active because every time the game is updated, all the mods need to be rewritten 10:00:37 <andythenorth> and as child #1 keeps pointing out, there are no mods on Minecraft PE, despite it being most popular platforn 10:00:39 <Pikka> (see also KSP) 10:00:43 <andythenorth> lolz 10:01:05 <andythenorth> it's change that matters 10:01:07 <andythenorth> not results 10:01:13 <andythenorth> like bad therapy 10:01:26 <Pikka> wot laffs 10:01:36 <andythenorth> the problem is that out attitudes are from 30 years ago 10:01:37 <Sacro> I'll stick with Factorio 10:01:41 <andythenorth> and I can't keep up 10:01:47 <Pikka> tut tut 10:01:51 <Sacro> WHERE ARE THE PONG MODS 10:02:00 <andythenorth> I learnt everything about software when I was 10 10:02:08 <andythenorth> also I played loads of TTD in 1988 10:02:11 <andythenorth> loads 10:02:42 <V453000> 88? 10:02:47 <andythenorth> yair 10:02:51 <andythenorth> V453000: just bitching 10:02:57 <V453000> :D 10:03:22 <andythenorth> I would actually like to have sensible debates with the relevant OP every year when the latest version of the thread is born again 10:03:32 <andythenorth> like I think KK has some sensible points 10:03:51 <andythenorth> but it's all just expressed in so much wah wah 10:03:57 <andythenorth> and so much wrong 10:04:24 * andythenorth back to making trains not appear the wrong way round in -> view 10:04:31 <Pikka> o/ 10:04:36 * Pikka back to making dinner 10:05:22 <andythenorth> shall I add a steam engine to Horse for 2020? 10:05:25 <andythenorth> it's total realism 10:06:04 <V453000> YES 10:06:14 <V453000> steamers are fun, case closed. 10:06:25 <andythenorth> it would be the one from 1930, back again 10:06:27 <andythenorth> upgraded, faster 10:06:46 <andythenorth> it is a conundrum 10:06:52 <andythenorth> player feedback is that realism is better 10:07:03 <andythenorth> but the UK has stopped buying new locomotives and stuff 10:07:10 <andythenorth> so when I just repeat the old ones (like realism) 10:07:12 <andythenorth> they are unhappy 10:07:17 <andythenorth> such 10:07:27 <andythenorth> FLHerne: I blame you :D 10:07:32 <andythenorth> unfair 10:08:55 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Mm 10:09:11 <andythenorth> I am on a train 10:09:18 <andythenorth> maybe I can look out the window for new trains 10:09:26 <andythenorth> and draw them quick 10:10:18 <andythenorth> I can see some now 10:10:23 <andythenorth> all Cargo Sprinters though 10:11:44 <FLHerne> Aw, you renamed the Raven :-( 10:11:59 <FLHerne> I know it was 'realistic' before, but it was also a cool name. The new one is silly :P 10:12:24 <FLHerne> (the new tank names are nice, though) 10:15:30 <andythenorth> I could unrename the Raven 10:15:37 <andythenorth> Raven is a bird, animal names are possible 10:15:46 <andythenorth> it's also named after the designer 10:15:52 <andythenorth> it just didn't sound very hench 10:16:01 <andythenorth> 'Super Raven' :P 10:16:14 <andythenorth> NUTS Horse 10:18:05 <FLHerne> Looking at your revised linear speed bands, I still think they're wrong ;-) 10:18:23 <andythenorth> that's ok, the possibility of a parameter still 10:18:30 <andythenorth> I just make one step at a time, cleaner 10:18:31 <FLHerne> You have 60mph locos from 1860-1900, then nothing, then 1930-1950 10:18:45 <andythenorth> do I? 10:18:50 * andythenorth checks 10:19:08 <FLHerne> Then 75mph from 1900-1930, nothing, 1960-1990 10:19:16 <andythenorth> that looks like errors 10:19:23 <andythenorth> let's check 10:20:06 <FLHerne> No, it's because freight and pax are still two bands apart, but you only move up one each generation, so there's no overlap 10:20:16 <FLHerne> (except the first one because it's a bit different) 10:21:15 <andythenorth> branch engines are bugged though 10:21:28 * andythenorth fixes 10:21:30 <FLHerne> (90mph 1930-1960, nothing, 1990-2020, etc.) 10:21:55 <FLHerne> Oh, right, those were meant to be pax speed 10:22:12 <andythenorth> yes 10:22:45 <FLHerne> I still think the smaller freight loco, and maybe also the branch loco? should be in the middle band that's currently empty in each gen 10:22:53 *** Laedek has joined #openttd 10:22:56 <FLHerne> Latter might be annoying if they have to share tracks with expresses ever 10:22:57 <andythenorth> k biab, change trains 10:23:00 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 10:41:43 *** som89 has quit IRC 10:43:20 *** som89 has joined #openttd 11:04:31 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 11:04:31 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 11:11:32 *** tokai has quit IRC 11:28:15 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 11:30:54 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 11:50:00 *** Pikka has quit IRC 11:55:17 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 12:19:44 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 12:27:49 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 12:43:51 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 13:03:45 *** crem has quit IRC 13:04:07 *** crem has joined #openttd 13:22:46 *** Flygon_ has joined #openttd 13:29:56 *** Flygon has quit IRC 13:31:27 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 13:39:49 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 13:55:51 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:02:10 *** Gja has joined #openttd 14:11:42 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 14:17:16 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 14:18:07 <nielsm> okay, back from vacation and most major troubles that occurred in the meantime are resolved... time to try to rebase those patchsets I worked on before 14:22:32 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 14:28:44 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 14:29:05 <andythenorth_> o/ 14:29:19 <andythenorth_> there are trains 14:29:25 <andythenorth_> irl 14:29:31 <andythenorth_> I can see one 14:35:15 <peter1138> I can see... sunshne. 14:35:20 <peter1138> With an i. 14:35:27 <peter1138> Seems it is going to piss down tomorrow though :( 14:36:30 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 14:36:32 <peter1138> https://i.imgur.com/L2NSxPb.jpg 14:36:33 <peter1138> Oh 14:39:05 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 14:39:16 <andythenorth_> even more trains 14:39:22 <andythenorth_> how rare 14:42:33 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 14:44:33 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 14:47:31 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 14:52:31 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 14:53:12 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 14:56:08 <nielsm> okay managed to rebase one patchset correctly! 15:03:49 *** dustinm` has quit IRC 15:09:32 *** dustinm` has joined #openttd 15:18:24 *** Flygon_ has quit IRC 15:18:48 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 15:32:27 *** som89 has quit IRC 15:36:40 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 15:41:07 <nielsm> :( jenkins fails to merge my pull request, somehow 15:43:17 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 15:47:12 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 15:47:24 <LordAro> nielsm: it's very particular about commit messages 15:47:38 <LordAro> and you appear to have merge conflict 15:48:01 <LordAro> (there's also a an svn commit in your branch, somehow) 15:48:28 <nielsm> ugh so I did make a mistake when rebasing after all? 15:48:32 <LordAro> nope 15:48:34 <LordAro> you're nearly there 15:48:41 <LordAro> well, you may have made a mistake :p 15:48:49 <nielsm> ah right 15:48:49 <LordAro> but just re-rebasing onto HEAD should do the job 15:49:04 <LordAro> the hardest bit will be squashing/moving/merging commits 15:49:18 <nielsm> what I did was rebase onto the commit in the new github repo that matched the one my old branch was based on 15:49:28 <nielsm> then afterwards merge master into the branch 15:49:40 <nielsm> should have rebased onto master instead? 15:49:55 *** som89 has joined #openttd 15:50:57 *** TheMask96 has quit IRC 15:51:08 <nielsm> that svn commit that somehow sneaks in is probably from something that happened during merge master 15:52:17 *** TheMask96 has joined #openttd 15:56:51 <LordAro> nielsm: yeah, no merge commits in this repo pls 16:00:55 <LordAro> nielsm: also, force pushing means you don't need to create new pull requests 16:01:18 <LordAro> oh wait, i misread 16:01:20 <LordAro> carry on 16:01:36 <nielsm> trying to make sense of things locally atm :) 16:02:35 <nielsm> git UI is annoying, I'm pretty sure I understand the graph and objects stuff behind the scenes correctly, and I know how I want things to look, but I just don't know the commands to make it happen 16:07:26 <LordAro> git rebase master, probably 16:07:37 <LordAro> upstream/master or origin/master, depending on your checkout 16:07:53 <LordAro> and then git rebase -i master to reword/reorganise commits 16:14:19 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 16:18:32 <nielsm> force pushed now 16:19:17 <nielsm> will have to do that again after changing all commit messages though... 16:19:31 <peter1138> yup 16:20:00 <peter1138> Problem is lots of commits like "WIP" and "now working" 16:20:28 <LordAro> rebasing is love, rebasing is life 16:21:31 <peter1138> "untested" whew, brave. 16:21:45 <LordAro> it compiles, ship it 16:22:30 <peter1138> Who needs reviews :p 16:23:40 <nielsm> commits like "update visual studio project files" should they be squashed into the previous? since that previous actually removes some source files 16:24:18 <LordAro> i'd say so 16:24:31 <peter1138> Don't commit project file changes. 16:24:42 <peter1138> Always edit source.list and run projects/generate 16:24:58 <peter1138> It's made a right mess 16:25:05 <LordAro> well you still need to commit the project file changes :p 16:25:09 <peter1138> Yes 16:25:15 <peter1138> But not like this 16:25:27 <LordAro> ah, i haven't looked at the actual changes 16:25:42 <peter1138> LordAro, and source.list hasn't been touched 16:25:48 <LordAro> ah 16:25:57 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 16:26:07 <nielsm> I am certainly updated source.list and running generate.vbs 16:26:15 <nielsm> not editing the VS project files by hand 16:26:28 <peter1138> What's with the xml change to every file then? 16:26:47 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 16:27:03 <peter1138> Maybe generate.vbs doesn't work properly. Hmm. 16:27:09 <nielsm> the source.list change is in the commit that deletes the old source files 16:27:46 <peter1138> So to answer your original question , yes :P 16:27:52 <nielsm> the generate_vs14[01].vcxproj change to xml declaration would seem to be something with UTF8 BOM 16:28:26 <nielsm> but why it changes the order of spanish.txt and spanish_MX.txt around everywhere, no clue 16:28:43 <peter1138> Thing is, you didn't review what was changed in the project file commit. 16:29:31 <nielsm> does the unix projects/generate script also update the VS project files? 16:29:41 <peter1138> Yes 16:29:46 <nielsm> I can run that in WSL then 16:30:06 <nielsm> marking that commit as 'edit' then 16:30:12 <peter1138> I don't actually know how to run generate.vbs 16:30:38 <nielsm> cscript generate.vbs 16:30:46 <nielsm> that simple actually 16:30:49 <nielsm> and it does things 16:30:57 <peter1138> Roger. 16:31:01 <peter1138> cscript wasn't obvious 16:31:10 <peter1138> Ok, Yeah, running that fucks all the proejct files up :p 16:31:17 <peter1138> Ish 16:31:22 <peter1138> I don't get the utf-8 bom change 16:31:29 <peter1138> but there is the reordering 16:31:46 <peter1138> Actually the reordering is the only thing. 16:31:52 *** Progman has joined #openttd 16:31:57 <peter1138> So something odd happened with yours for it to mess with the BOM 16:31:58 <peter1138> Hmm. 16:32:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 16:32:36 <peter1138> WIPs should be squashed together into something that works :p 16:33:12 <nielsm> then I have this "code style" where I fix up all previous changes to follow the style conventions.... spreading that out will be a major pain :( 16:33:26 <peter1138> SHould've got it right in the first place ;) 16:35:29 <peter1138> Also probably too many things going on in one PR 16:36:01 <nielsm> I tried separating things, I really did 16:36:04 <nielsm> at first 16:36:28 <nielsm> and just kept getting all the changes intertwined 16:36:45 <peter1138> feature to change music set during gameplay 16:36:48 <peter1138> seems unrelated 16:37:09 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 16:37:14 <peter1138> Nice separate PR, that one. 16:42:31 <nielsm> projects/generate run on WLS on my system also changes the order of the spanish/spanish_MX language files 16:42:33 <nielsm> wth 16:43:08 <Rubidium> sounds like different sorting on file system level between OSes 16:43:48 <nielsm> the generate script should probably do an ASCII sort of filenames before adding them? 16:44:05 <nielsm> instead of depending on filesystem randomness 16:45:22 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:45:22 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:53:35 <nielsm> this seems to cause generate to keep the ordering: https://gist.github.com/nielsmh/4c187d77d373976b2862ea288f2f872c 16:53:52 <nielsm> and I think it is portable across different unices/compatibles? 16:55:56 <glx> I guess it's about mx lang file in projects 16:56:01 <nielsm> yes 16:57:47 <nielsm> made a PR for that generate script fix 16:58:43 <peter1138> Needs more than that. 16:58:57 <peter1138> With sort -d, spanish_MX comes before spanish for me 16:59:04 <peter1138> as it does in our project files 16:59:15 <peter1138> it's generate.vbs that does it the other way 17:00:44 <LordAro> shouldn't be using ls anyway 17:00:59 <peter1138> probably 17:01:03 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 17:01:31 <LordAro> http://mywiki.wooledge.org/ParsingLs 17:01:35 <Wolf01> Moin 17:02:31 <Wolf01> Lol 17:03:13 <glx> generate on mingw changes the order too 17:03:22 <glx> so it's not only the vbs 17:03:30 <glx> it's more related to the OS 17:03:38 <peter1138> Yeah 17:03:51 <LordAro> LC_ALL=C? 17:03:54 <nielsm> yes it seems to be windows' FS driver that returns files in another order 17:04:03 <Wolf01> I can confirm 17:04:24 <nielsm> and of course VBS doesn't have any built-in sorting 17:04:40 <nielsm> so enjoy writing a little bubblesort or whatever for it 17:05:01 <nielsm> of course, comparing the filenames exactly like 'sort -d' would 17:05:03 <nielsm> :( 17:05:16 <peter1138> on linux it seems to sort by alphanumerics 17:05:40 <peter1138> so windows is right :p 17:06:20 <peter1138> spanish.txt comes after spanish_mx on linux cos t > m 17:06:46 <peter1138> english_au comes before english.txt on linux cos a < t 17:07:11 <peter1138> egnlish_us comes after english cos u > t 17:07:14 <peter1138> fun :p 17:07:23 <peter1138> so it needs the opposite of sort -d 17:07:44 <glx> but it should sort based on what is before the . :) 17:07:50 <Wolf01> If you select a list of files and copy them on windows, it copies first the last one, then back from the first, and that causes a LOT of problems where you need to have files placed sequentially independent of the filename... like my car radio and some dvd players I use to see old photo albums on dvd 17:07:59 <peter1138> glx, yeah. windows does, linux doesn't. 17:08:21 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 17:08:27 <peter1138> Wolf01, yeah, screw those systems that can't understand filenames :( 17:08:45 <peter1138> Wolf01, there's even a tool specifically for reordering the file list on a dos partition 17:08:46 <Wolf01> They just read in the fs order 17:08:53 <glx> Wolf01: it's also funny when you drag a selection in vlc, you won't know the order in the playlist 17:09:05 <Wolf01> Ah, yes, I noticed that too 17:09:42 <Wolf01> I now use teracopy which does the copy in the right order and so no more problems :P 17:21:25 <peter1138> (Interesting that only spanish shows up differently, though) 17:22:08 <Wolf01> Oh, that, it is a pita every time I regenerate the projects :D 17:22:48 <peter1138> Thanks for reporting it as a bug :p 17:23:18 <Wolf01> You are welcome :p 17:23:42 <peter1138> Actually there probably is one in there, a few years ago ;) 17:30:19 <glx> <peter1138> (Interesting that only spanish shows up differently, though) <-- because the other file that could cause problem is english.txt but it's skipped by generate 17:30:31 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 17:31:16 <peter1138> k 17:31:32 <nielsm> looking at generate.vbs now, changing it to sort the files in "linux ordering" would be rather troublesome 17:31:48 <nielsm> since it loops directly on the FileSystemObject data rather on a copy of an array 17:31:57 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 17:32:21 <nielsm> so it'd have to first copy out all the filenames to a new array, then sort them (using a custom sorting function), then do the current stuff 17:34:45 <peter1138> ls -1 src/lang | sed 's/.txt//g' | sort | sed 's/$/.txt/g' 17:34:45 <peter1138> ;( 17:35:14 <nielsm> question is whether you can depend on windows always returning the files in this particular order ;) 17:35:29 <peter1138> Indeed. 17:35:41 <glx> windows tends to be conservative 17:35:45 <nielsm> (in which case changing the shell script to produce that ordering would be the easier) 17:36:17 <glx> because a lot of existing stuff relies on 'defined' behaviour 17:36:26 <peter1138> And also do it for the other ls. 17:37:43 <nielsm> afk, dinner 17:46:10 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 17:55:07 *** Zuu has joined #openttd 18:05:54 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 18:11:31 <TrueBrain_> w00p, lets see if I can make a 64bit Windows binary :D SO MUCH HYPE 18:11:54 *** TrueBrain_ is now known as TrueBrain 18:11:57 <TrueBrain> weird name 18:12:24 <TrueBrain> okay, so supybot is no longer really supported I see 18:14:22 <peter1138> GET HYPED 18:14:46 <TrueBrain> 235 warnings 18:14:47 <TrueBrain> 0 errors 18:14:49 <TrueBrain> w00p! 18:14:51 <TrueBrain> 3 minute and 45 seconds 18:14:58 <TrueBrain> that is a lot faster than I expected tbfh 18:15:29 <TrueBrain> binary of 32 MiB?! 18:15:30 <TrueBrain> holy crap 18:15:35 <TrueBrain> why is OpenTTD so hugggeeeeeee 18:16:44 <peter1138> Hmm, I've been building 32 bit all this time :p 18:16:53 <TrueBrain> last build it was only 13 MiB .. so why is this so much bigger .. 18:17:10 <peter1138> Is it a debug build? 18:17:31 <TrueBrain> did /p:Configuration=Release 18:17:44 <TrueBrain> I did use static libraries 18:17:50 <TrueBrain> and I see libpng.lib is 2 MiB .. 18:17:58 <TrueBrain> that is a huge number right there 18:18:44 <TrueBrain> ICU is also BIIGGGGG 18:18:51 <peter1138> And buggy 18:20:24 <TrueBrain> yeah, those libraries should be a lot smaller 18:20:27 <peter1138> my debug was 33MB 18:20:30 <peter1138> my release is 14MB 18:20:43 <peter1138> So I think you've got a debug build. 18:20:44 <TrueBrain> libpng.lib should be around 400 kib 18:21:03 <TrueBrain> if /p:Configuration=Release doesnt give a release, than yes 18:21:04 <peter1138> Hmm, or debug builds of the libs? 18:21:10 <TrueBrain> otherwise, I think my libs are wrong 18:21:12 <peter1138> I dunno :p 18:21:35 <peter1138> libpng.lib is 497KB for me. 18:21:41 <peter1138> ICU is... lots. 18:22:34 <TrueBrain> I think the libraries are static too 18:22:36 <TrueBrain> which is fine 18:22:40 <LordAro> pretty sure i read somewhere recently that vcpkg gets 32bit libs by default 18:22:41 <TrueBrain> no clue why the executable is so big 18:22:43 <LordAro> might have been here 18:22:54 <TrueBrain> nope; vcpkg does what it should do 18:22:57 <TrueBrain> nicely has the targets split 18:23:02 <LordAro> fair 18:23:05 <TrueBrain> but also totally irrelevant; 32bit libraries dont work for a 64bit binary 18:23:06 <TrueBrain> and I have a binary 18:23:15 <LordAro> not tried it myself 18:23:19 <LordAro> does it run? :p 18:23:52 <TrueBrain> running a Headless windows; no clue how to check that 18:24:22 <LordAro> i had to work around missing this fix today https://sourceware.org/git/gitweb.cgi?p=binutils-gdb.git;h=ddff3d84be42fa80c2c9aaa635f2b9269e74e4f9 18:25:00 <TrueBrain> the executable runs fine; pretty smooth even for a VM it runs in 18:27:01 <TrueBrain> guess it is time to try the non-static vcpkg files 18:27:43 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:28:41 <peter1138> group icons eh? 18:29:04 <peter1138> God, VS is annoying to use. 18:29:43 <TrueBrain> still no word from AWS .. really think they put me on their ignore list :( 18:29:58 <andythenorth> yo 18:30:04 <TrueBrain> yo yo yoooooo 18:30:12 <Zuu> yo 18:30:12 <andythenorth> how does int(foo/2) work then? 18:30:19 <Wolf01> TrueBrain: write at Bezos directly 18:30:20 <andythenorth> seems to round down 18:30:24 <TrueBrain> owh no, its a Zuu 18:30:42 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: depending on the language, it tends to round down, yes 18:30:47 <andythenorth> python 18:30:56 <TrueBrain> never do that in Python .... Python2 or Python3? 18:31:10 <Zuu> A git topic got me here. 18:31:24 <TrueBrain> took you long enough :P 18:31:24 <andythenorth> python3 18:31:41 <andythenorth> does it reliably round down? 18:31:43 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: 3 / 2 -> 1.5 3 // 2 -> 1 18:31:45 <andythenorth> or should I floor it 18:31:47 <TrueBrain> never use int() 18:31:55 <TrueBrain> just never ever use int() .... 18:31:55 <andythenorth> I need the result as an int 18:32:01 <TrueBrain> so foo // 2 18:32:06 <TrueBrain> always returns an int, always rounded down 18:32:13 <andythenorth> nice 18:32:14 <Zuu> I actually read the topic when it was quite new, but took me some time to get here yes. 18:32:30 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: internally, // is called 'floordiv' 18:32:36 <andythenorth> ok 18:32:39 <andythenorth> worth knowing 18:32:44 <TrueBrain> Zuu: the travels on the web is long :D 18:33:05 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: it is very nice of Python to have 2 operators for it :) int / int -> float, int // int -> int 18:33:10 <TrueBrain> makes so much code so much nicer 18:33:22 <peter1138> int / (float)int 18:33:23 <peter1138> yeah 18:33:31 <peter1138> Hmm, my jenkins has blown up again :( 18:33:57 <TrueBrain> peter1138: no need for (float). what I wrote is correct. No casting. dont cast in Python. Never 18:34:09 <TrueBrain> (well, holds for Python3) 18:34:22 <TrueBrain> int / int -> float in Python 3 .. well, or int 18:34:43 <TrueBrain> if you are casting in Python, you are really doing it wrong 18:34:54 <TrueBrain> cast with (bytes), learn how to do decode/encode 18:35:02 <TrueBrain> cast with int/float, learn the rules :) 18:35:19 <peter1138> TrueBrain, yeah i was refering to C :p 18:35:30 <TrueBrain> yes, as we were talking about C. Sorry. My mistake. 18:35:32 <TrueBrain> (silly goose) 18:35:50 <peter1138> As in "that's the not so much nicer way" 18:36:01 <peter1138> i may have optimised that bit away 18:36:10 <TrueBrain> . 18:36:20 <TrueBrain> optmizations give for bad conversations :D 18:36:21 <TrueBrain> haha 18:36:24 <TrueBrain> we just all talk empty-space and dots 18:36:26 <TrueBrain> . 18:36:28 <TrueBrain> :P 18:36:29 <TrueBrain> :D 18:36:31 <TrueBrain> ? 18:36:32 <TrueBrain> :D 18:36:47 <LordAro> D: 18:36:54 <TrueBrain> your smile is wrong :s 18:36:56 <TrueBrain> you scare me 18:37:02 <LordAro> ): 18:37:18 <andythenorth> 7 hours on trains today :P 18:37:27 <TrueBrain> I normally ride in trains 18:37:31 <TrueBrain> but I guess on can also be fun 18:37:34 <TrueBrain> did you go to India? 18:37:58 <TrueBrain> I just imagine andythenorth sitting on a train. His son walks in: DAD! GET OFF THAT TRAIN! 18:38:38 <TrueBrain> or maybe he is not walking on eggs, but he is walking on trains 18:38:48 <TrueBrain> does have another vibe to it ... "I have been walking on trains today" 18:38:48 <nielsm> okay patchset is starting to be a bit more sensible now? http://0x0.st/sQve.txt 18:38:50 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 18:39:05 <TrueBrain> even his connection lost it 18:39:20 <TrueBrain> nielsm: note that none of these commit messages will be accepted by the CI :) 18:39:23 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 18:39:29 <LordAro> nielsm: see the list of approved prefixes 18:39:32 <nielsm> TrueBrain I think two of them will! :) 18:39:35 <LordAro> but otherwise yes 18:39:35 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: dont go offline when I am talking trash to you! 18:39:49 <andythenorth> sorry, Apple think it's good to turn off TCP/IP 18:39:52 <nielsm> I'm fixing things bit by bit, shuffling around code between commits is tricky to get right 18:39:54 <andythenorth> it saves battery 18:39:59 <TrueBrain> nielsm: in general we have to think about how to process your PR .. as there is no way we can keep working on it till the whole set gets an approval :) 18:40:05 <andythenorth> so they micro-sleep the network connection constantly 18:40:10 <andythenorth> which is crap for irc 18:40:35 <TrueBrain> yes, as the network negotiation and TCP negotiation are so cheap .. 18:40:36 <TrueBrain> fucking wankers 18:40:51 <nielsm> if I separate the GUI changes and the playlist/title screen logic out into separate patchsets, is it fine to keep the win32 music driver and dos music support as a single PR? 18:40:57 <andythenorth> just waiting for a better alternative... 18:41:01 <andythenorth> tick tock 18:41:04 <nielsm> since those are very closely intertwined 18:41:26 <TrueBrain> yeah, there should be a balance of work vs reward :D 18:41:43 <TrueBrain> but I am mostly interested in the music driver .. as I really dont want to findout how to get dmusic working ... 18:41:47 <TrueBrain> its horrible ...... 18:41:56 <TrueBrain> does win64 currently have midi support? 18:42:55 <andythenorth> oops forgot to 'make install' 18:43:04 <andythenorth> that's why my grf still is broken in-game :P 18:43:13 <TrueBrain> I had that many times today 18:43:18 <andythenorth> how do I even tie my shoelaces? :P 18:43:20 <TrueBrain> WHY DOESNT THIS WORK! Wait ... 'make' .... 18:43:25 * andythenorth has shoes without shoelaces 18:43:31 <TrueBrain> has no shoes 18:43:33 <TrueBrain> and no pants 18:43:34 <TrueBrain> hmmm 18:43:46 <Zuu> gulp watch => make? 18:45:17 <TrueBrain> real men don't automate! 18:45:30 <nielsm> TrueBrain yes win64 has full midi support 18:45:41 <TrueBrain> then why does win32 need DirectX for? 18:45:42 <nielsm> (professional music software depends on that too) 18:45:49 <TrueBrain> no, I meant OpenTTD :D 18:45:51 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD win64 :) 18:45:58 <nielsm> oh 18:46:05 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD win32 needs DirectX dmusic shit 18:46:12 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD win64 doesn't ... made me wonder if MIDI worked at all 18:46:15 <nielsm> the current two music drivers in openttd are more properly called directmusic and mci 18:46:19 <nielsm> rather than directmusic and win32 18:46:27 <nielsm> since the "win32" driver uses the ancient MCI interface 18:46:38 <TrueBrain> yes; for which is no win64 from what I understood 18:46:43 <TrueBrain> but so why do we still have it? 18:46:48 <TrueBrain> or does your patch fixes all that? 18:46:48 <nielsm> and for some reason using MCI MIDI on newer versions of windows has massive delays when loading files 18:47:04 <nielsm> 5-7 second pauses between tracks 18:47:11 <nielsm> (or when looping the title song) 18:47:12 <peter1138> Whatever is there works for me. 18:47:12 <Zuu> But it is easy to just remove music support and compile without dmusic. At least that is what I used to do. Now I have to see if I can get VS up and runnig to compille OpenTTD. 18:47:31 <TrueBrain> removing music is never an option :D 18:47:39 <TrueBrain> and I am more worried how I should do the official binaries :P 18:47:42 <peter1138> Zuu, that's not useful for a compile farm :) 18:47:48 <TrueBrain> I really really really do not want to look into dmusic :( 18:48:04 <nielsm> my new driver on windows basically implements a brand new low-level midi file parser and timing control to second it to the system midi output... 18:48:20 <TrueBrain> and removes dmusic? 18:48:25 <nielsm> yes 18:48:26 <nielsm> completely 18:48:27 <TrueBrain> +1 18:48:29 <TrueBrain> approved 18:48:30 <TrueBrain> merged 18:48:32 <TrueBrain> wait ... 18:48:33 <TrueBrain> :P 18:48:43 <TrueBrain> so yeah, if you can split that off from the GUI changes and random README changes etc, would be lovely 18:48:58 <nielsm> dmusic has some neat ideas, honestly, but it was too late and no game developers wanted to use it anyway :D 18:49:33 <TrueBrain> especially if you can offer only the new MIDI driver .. makes reviewing a lot easier :) 18:49:52 <Zuu> peter1138: that put it in a different perspective yes. 18:50:08 <nielsm> just gonna make a force push again... 18:50:13 <TrueBrain> if supybot is no longer the standard .. what IRC bot is (in Python3)? 18:50:22 <TrueBrain> make all the force pushes you need nielsm :) 18:50:25 <TrueBrain> we can handle them! :) 18:51:43 <nielsm> 7f7c2d0 is the commit that contains the entire new music driver in the basic form, but there are some later fixes I haven't cleaned up yet 18:51:56 <nielsm> if you want to test it ;) 18:52:29 <TrueBrain> I wait for the cleanup :D 18:52:50 <TrueBrain> gives me some time to prepare the release binaries a bit more .. maybe I can try to build the PR with it so we can all test it on different systems :) 18:53:13 *** Thedarkb has joined #openttd 18:53:33 <nielsm> I'd appreciate if someone could try out the dos music support on non-windows systems now, before the cleanup is done 18:53:43 <nielsm> so I don't have to go back and fix that later again 18:54:01 <nielsm> it's really simple, just decodes the song, dumps to a temp file, and loads the temp file 18:54:24 <nielsm> but I'm not sure whether it's an appropriate location I write the temp file to, and some other details 18:54:27 <TrueBrain> cheaty :D But MIDI on non-windows always has been a bit of a problem :) 18:54:41 <nielsm> (I don't have any non-windows systems on hand) 18:55:50 <TrueBrain> me neither :( 18:56:13 <nielsm> oh yeah, also the fix for music looping I've made, can only work with the new win32 driver if the windows-TTD music files are used, since they depend on low level control of playback 18:56:34 <nielsm> (this includes the fix for "can't get there from here" having the long silence at the end) 18:56:39 <TrueBrain> I think it will take a bit of time and a few PRs before we get your stuff in :D 19:00:17 <nielsm> please call it version 2.0 then ;) 19:01:00 <nielsm> (more like 7.0 with all the other features also introduced since 1.0, but version numbers are meaningless anyway) 19:06:40 <glx> I used MidiOut for opendune, but music playing was a lot more low level there than in openttd 19:10:12 *** som89 has quit IRC 19:12:49 <nielsm> if anyone's interested, here's a win32 build: http://0x0.st/sQvV.zip 19:14:01 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 19:14:43 <TrueBrain> that is what OpenTTD needs ... auto-updating, and channels! So we can push test versions to a select few people 19:14:51 <TrueBrain> for that we need to get statistics how people use the game 19:14:53 <TrueBrain> so we can target them 19:15:01 <TrueBrain> of course than we can talk with companies to sell that data too 19:15:03 <TrueBrain> waitttttttttttt 19:15:08 <TrueBrain> (I AM JOKING! Ffs ...) 19:15:09 <peter1138> Yeah...er... no not that. 19:15:18 <peter1138> Auto updating would be good. 19:15:28 <peter1138> I even had people request that. 19:15:37 <TrueBrain> yup; I am surprised that is not in yet :D 19:15:46 <TrueBrain> channels is also nice, for nightly/beta/release 19:15:58 <TrueBrain> statistics how peopleuse the game .... I rather burn the server to the ground 19:16:02 <Zuu> Then I could finally retire ottdau :-) 19:16:10 <peter1138> :-) 19:16:31 <peter1138> Hmm, wonder how to support it on non-Windows. 19:16:34 <TrueBrain> so why havent you added this to OpenTTD yet Zuu?! :P 19:16:37 *** ToffeeYogurtPots has joined #openttd 19:16:41 <TrueBrain> apt upgrade openttd? :P 19:16:42 <peter1138> Of course it's possible but package managers and shit. 19:16:42 <glx> so for now dmusic is disabled at compile time for win64, and win64 has music via mci 19:16:45 <peter1138> Haha 19:16:54 <glx> win32 has both 19:16:55 <Zuu> I don't relly have a compiler for it other than at work, but is to lazy to rewrite it. 19:17:02 <LordAro> some sort of notification is usually good enough 19:17:24 <peter1138> Nah, now that everyone is used to Steam auto updating everything... 19:17:33 <peter1138> (Let's not go on Steam though) 19:17:39 <LordAro> "a newer vsrsion is available at xyz, go get it" 19:18:15 * peter1138 attempts to find out how to make Jenkins parse gendarme reports. 19:18:25 <Zuu> TrueBrain: Good question. Maybe I got drowned to much into AIs and Game Scripts. :-) 19:20:34 * andythenorth would like to collect user data 19:20:50 <andythenorth> we can call it a fair trade for connecting people 19:21:50 <andythenorth> there is no sarcasm emoticon is there 19:21:57 <andythenorth> ^^ this is the kind of thing that came back to haunt Zuck 19:22:10 <andythenorth> except he maybe meant what he said 15 years ago :P 19:31:55 <TrueBrain> right, turns out that after a Plesk update, emails could no longer be recieved 19:31:56 <TrueBrain> lovely 19:32:42 <peter1138> :S 19:32:44 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:32:58 <TrueBrain> and the emails telling me about it ... couldnt be sent :D 19:33:44 <glx> seems logic 19:34:22 <peter1138> :) 19:36:13 <TrueBrain> amazing how you dont really notice if you dont receive any emails .. it is like: hmm .. weird .. but what-evah 19:38:06 <andythenorth> email is the inverse of a good alerting system :P 19:40:17 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 19:42:50 <TrueBrain> now the binary is 4 MiB .. that seems too small 19:43:05 <TrueBrain> and, it is 19:43:09 <TrueBrain> now it needs dlls etc 19:43:10 <TrueBrain> I hate dlls :P 19:43:18 <TrueBrain> so either it is mega-fat .. or too-slim 19:44:43 <TrueBrain> error while loading shared libraries: ?: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory 19:44:45 <TrueBrain> no shit ... 19:44:49 <TrueBrain> is ? not a valid file?! 19:45:24 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 19:46:07 <glx> static is easier, else we need to distribute the dlls 19:46:12 <TrueBrain> yup 19:46:15 <TrueBrain> but static was 40+ MiB 19:46:21 <TrueBrain> which is a bit weird 19:47:04 <glx> I have 31,7MB for a debug x64 build 19:47:12 <TrueBrain> it was a release build ... 19:47:40 <glx> starting a release x64 build 19:49:04 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 19:49:56 <andythenorth> so we're not adding depot flip for articulated vehicles, right? 19:49:57 <andythenorth> o_O 19:52:19 <nielsm> .... I _just_ now realized there's the files in media/baseset/ that are used to generate the bin/baseset/ files from with translations for descriptions 19:52:24 <nielsm> that's also a thing I'll have to fix 19:57:20 <andythenorth> we could allow flipping the bit if the vehicle permits it :P 19:57:21 <glx> ok release x64 is 13.4MB 19:57:30 <andythenorth> but not actually reversing the sprites in openttd 19:57:40 <andythenorth> although openttd doesn't seem to reverse the sprites for me anyway 19:57:47 <andythenorth> I had to handle it explicitly 19:58:25 <TrueBrain> glx: yeah, I think my issue is in the deps .. not using openttd-useful :) 19:58:38 <glx> ah, use them then 20:00:06 <TrueBrain> I was trying to avoid using some random libraries :) 20:00:13 <TrueBrain> vcpkg is a much cleaner way to drag them in 20:00:21 <TrueBrain> (and they are updated!) 20:04:45 <glx> oh yes vcpkg looks nice, I should try it 20:06:03 <glx> and I like the integration option 20:08:47 <TrueBrain> yes; it isa very clean solution; not as dirty as our current :) 20:10:55 <peter1138> Wonder why it's bigger with them. Hmm. 20:10:56 <TrueBrain> ah; despite the configuration settings, it did build a debug after all 20:10:58 <TrueBrain> so what is wrong here .. 20:10:59 <peter1138> Ahhh 20:11:03 <peter1138> :-) 20:11:23 <TrueBrain> ah, because this round I couldnt type 20:11:26 <TrueBrain> explains why the linker fails 20:13:34 <TrueBrain> right, now it links again 20:13:51 <TrueBrain> people keep telling me I should do /MT and DEFAULTNOLIB .. no clue how to do that via msbuild :D 20:14:20 <TrueBrain> I see MT is set in the project file anyway 20:14:50 <TrueBrain> 32 MiB is the RELEASE binary (I double checked :P) 20:16:09 <peter1138> Odd. 20:16:16 <peter1138> How big is the debug binary? 20:16:31 <glx> blame ICU I think :) 20:16:33 <TrueBrain> not tried to build that yet .. will try next 20:17:03 <glx> or we can compare your .lib sizes vs useful-6.0 20:17:18 <TrueBrain> I assume MSVC also does some optimizations, and prune unneeded stuff? 20:17:53 <orudge`> TrueBrain: I tried using vcpkg for ICU 20:17:58 <orudge`> but we use things in ICU that are no longer present 20:18:04 <TrueBrain> you have to downgrade to 57 20:18:15 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge` 20:18:20 *** orudge` is now known as orudge 20:18:41 <TrueBrain> I wish LordAro hurried up with Pango .. than you no longer have to 20:18:48 <nielsm> the TTO theme sounds bad on the MS GM synth after having heard it on a real roland sc-55 :( 20:18:49 <TrueBrain> (as in 61, even in 59, Layout is removed) 20:19:04 <glx> pango is a pain with deps 20:19:41 <glx> but it's probably better than icu ;) 20:20:14 <orudge> Maybe I should dust off my ancient MP3/Vorbis music patches for OpenTTD (I think they're so ancient they're still in C) - give you a few more libraries to have to support, TrueBrain :D 20:20:47 <orudge> To be fair, when I had the time to play OpenTTD, I tended to play with the various FM recordings up on my web site in Winamp, and mute the OpenTTD MIDI music itself 20:21:27 <TrueBrain> hmm .. this is interesting .. I guess openttd-useful is build with static library, but dynamic crt 20:21:33 <TrueBrain> in vcpkg, static means both library and crt static 20:21:34 <nielsm> do like GZDoom/other modern doom ports and include a bunch of different synthesizers right in the program 20:21:45 <nielsm> afaik they also have some FM synth emulators and more built in 20:21:56 <peter1138> Yeah, including a synth would be a nice option. 20:21:56 <orudge> TrueBrain: no, pretty sure OpenTTD.exe is entirely static CRT, at least the version that gets built on the server 20:22:23 <orudge> A new option for the content downloader, your prefered MIDI synth :) 20:22:40 <orudge> I think the OpenTTD Android port basically includes a copy of timidity 20:22:59 <nielsm> note: if you add softsynth support I'd also have to reverse the FM music from the dos version! 20:23:00 <peter1138> Oh god. 20:23:06 <peter1138> The patches... 20:23:13 <glx> checking in depends 20:23:20 <peter1138> Content Download: fluidsynth patches 20:23:33 <peter1138> Hmm, wonder if this is working. 20:24:10 <TrueBrain> orudge: not what I said at all :) I was talking about the libraries :) 20:24:10 <peter1138> Publishing gendarme results probably shouldn't take longer than actually running gendarme. 20:24:42 <peter1138> Does that mean you have copies of a static CRT for each static lib? 20:25:14 <andythenorth> made a train http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9021/velaro_thing.png 20:25:20 <orudge> TrueBrain: so the libraries are built to use a dynamic CRT, but OpenTTD is linked statically? Or something? Either way it sounds wrong :) 20:25:36 <TrueBrain> not helping, but tnx for the letters :) 20:25:56 <peter1138> Oh, I think I didn't save that palette sprite sheet :( 20:26:09 <peter1138> And my history seems to be poor these days 20:26:10 <glx> my release build is linked against msvcrt.dll 20:26:21 <orudge> glx: that would be a mingw32 build then 20:26:28 <TrueBrain> glx: does the installer install msvcrt? 20:26:37 <glx> no it's an msvc release x64 build 20:26:41 <TrueBrain> glx: which tool to use on windows to look to deps ? 20:26:51 <glx> dependancy walker 20:27:03 <TrueBrain> I only have a PowerShell :D 20:27:07 <orudge> glx: and it's definitely msvcrt.dll, and not msvcr140.dll? 20:27:12 <orudge> That seems unusual 20:27:13 <TrueBrain> can you check the deps of the libpng.lib in openttd-uesful for me? 20:27:24 <orudge> since msvcrt.dll is the VC6 runtime library 20:27:47 <glx> it's the msvcrt.dll present in system32 20:28:21 <orudge> mingw uses msvcrt.dll, but you have to do some fun hacks to get MSVC 7+ to link against msvcrt.dll I believe 20:28:29 <TrueBrain> ugh, creating a debug build is painful ... vcpkg named the libs differently (and rightfully), but openttd-useful used a special way of writing them .. so they are not compatible :D 20:28:34 *** gelignite has quit IRC 20:31:20 <Zuu> In the new git commit style, there is no attribution field. Should I omit the patch author when making a PR for an flysplay patch? 20:31:30 <glx> http://www.dependencywalker.com/ 20:31:30 <TrueBrain> okay, building crt:dynamic, lib:static libraries .. see if that changes anything at all 20:31:42 <glx> and it doesn't work with .lib 20:31:51 <TrueBrain> Zuu: you mean the (patch by NN) at the end of commit messages? 20:31:58 <Zuu> Yep 20:32:02 <TrueBrain> Zuu: as I still do that. And mention the bug/patch 20:32:03 <Zuu> Or just (NN) at the end 20:32:10 <TrueBrain> check on of the older commits from last week 20:32:29 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: The openttd-useful libs are also for a static CRT. 20:32:48 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: than why is libpng.lib for me 2MiB, and 500 KiB in openttd-useful? 20:33:57 <TrueBrain> (well, I more tried to type: do you have any clue why :D) 20:34:39 <michi_cc> Is vcpkg defaulting to link time code generation? In that case, the .lib contains intermediate code and not real code. I never enabled that because it is compiler version dependant. 20:35:14 <TrueBrain> dunno, honestly 20:35:19 <TrueBrain> I just see my resulting .exe is HUGE 20:35:22 <TrueBrain> like twice as big 20:35:28 <TrueBrain> so I was hoping I could blame the libraries 20:35:47 <TrueBrain> I wish we used cmake, than things would go a bit more smooth 20:36:07 <michi_cc> The release build could still include symbols in the exe. 20:36:59 <orudge> Visual Studio 2017 is best buddies with cmake now apparently, although I haven't really tried it much myself 20:37:12 <TrueBrain> any suggestions I could try, are welcome michi_cc :) I have no clue what your sentence implies for me :D 20:39:32 <TrueBrain> lol, vcpkg adds *.lib in the linker command 20:39:43 <michi_cc> Are you building the project files or something different. If yes, it has to be caused by the libraries, but I have no idea how vcpkg operates under to hood. 20:40:13 <TrueBrain> are you doing A or B. if yes, .. ? :D 20:40:24 <michi_cc> The openttd-useful libs were always carefully hand-crafted from the original sources :) 20:40:27 <TrueBrain> but I am doing 'msbuild projects\openttd_vs141.sln' 20:40:37 <TrueBrain> yes; hand-crafted, and unmaintained :) 20:40:39 <TrueBrain> go us! 20:41:46 <TrueBrain> I would much rather switch to something upstream :) 20:42:38 <michi_cc> Unless a recent vs2017 update made it produce huge binaries, I'd very much suspect the libs somehow. The sln contains all compiler options for the exe itself. 20:43:10 <TrueBrain> I compile with vs141, and I get warnings during linking of missing vs140.pdb 20:43:13 <TrueBrain> *shrugs* 20:45:01 <michi_cc> A random older vs141 openttd.exe I have around is almost 32MB, and it is a DEBUG build. So double and tripple check that :) 20:45:12 <TrueBrain> did, did it again, and again 20:45:17 <TrueBrain> debug doesn't even compile :) 20:45:20 <TrueBrain> (well, not link) 20:45:23 <TrueBrain> as I am too lazy to rename libs 20:45:52 <TrueBrain> and if you know a way to find out if a library is compiled with release/debug, I would love to hear it. vcpkg says they are release, but .. *shrug* 20:45:53 <TrueBrain> cannot confirm that 20:46:09 <TrueBrain> openttd.exe is also in objs/x64/Release/ 20:46:25 <TrueBrain> so if it is not a release, it is not because I didnt yell it to be a release :) 20:47:33 <glx> if it's in x64/Release it's a release 20:47:57 <glx> our project files are correct for that :) 20:48:02 <TrueBrain> some optimization? debug symbols left in there? 20:48:15 <glx> debug stuff is in the pdb 20:49:09 <TrueBrain> the .pdb is slightly bigger than the .exe :) 20:49:22 <michi_cc> I don't think there's any way to see how a lib was build. Especially as you could put the Debug options into Release and vice versa to anger people :) 20:50:06 <michi_cc> glx: There is also CodeView debug symbols that are embedded in the exe/libs, but I can't see any reason why vcpkg would use them by default. 20:50:53 <TrueBrain> the linker command has a /debug in there .. not sure why, or what it does 20:52:37 <glx> opened libpng.lib in notepad++, I see x64\Release Library\pngwutil.obj and stuff like that in it 20:53:10 <glx> maybe you can check your vcpkg libpng.lib in a text editor 20:53:25 <TrueBrain> okay, the /debug just makes the pdb 20:54:09 <andythenorth> peter1138: http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9018/openttdgui.png 20:54:16 <peter1138> Thanks. 20:54:19 <andythenorth> I should have PR-ed your repo eh :P 20:54:37 <peter1138> :p 20:54:41 <peter1138> Probably :) 20:54:43 <TrueBrain> what is the powershell command to grep in an output .. 20:54:43 <andythenorth> bureacracy 20:54:57 *** nielsm has quit IRC 20:56:22 <glx> Get-Content .\doc.txt | Select-String -Pattern (Get-Content .\regex.txt) 20:56:33 <glx> from https://stackoverflow.com/questions/15199321/powershell-equivalent-to-grep-f?utm_medium=organic&utm_source=google_rich_qa&utm_campaign=google_rich_qa 20:56:55 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 20:57:07 <TrueBrain> tnx 20:57:55 <TrueBrain> hard to tell anything .. my paths are different, but duhh :D 20:58:53 <TrueBrain> ah, the compile flags are in the lib 20:58:55 <TrueBrain> funny 20:58:56 <TrueBrain> -MT is there 20:59:02 <TrueBrain> -O2 20:59:09 <TrueBrain> -DWIN32 .. silly libpng :D 20:59:26 <TrueBrain> -DNDEBUG 20:59:31 <TrueBrain> so yeah, sounds like a release lib :) 21:02:03 <TrueBrain> glx: would you mind installing something like libpng with vcpkg, and see what that does to your binary size of OpenTTD? 21:02:11 <TrueBrain> if any change at all etc? 21:02:53 <TrueBrain> lol; now I get unresolved external symbols :D fdopen, strncpy, etc :D 21:02:54 <TrueBrain> cool 21:03:27 <TrueBrain> so MT is correct for the origin set I tried .. 21:03:30 <TrueBrain> this is a bit weird 21:04:06 <glx> I can't find the flags in .lib 21:04:06 <glx> but openttd-useful is built with vs140 so maybe it's just vs141 21:04:34 <TrueBrain> could you try locally by any chance? 21:06:31 <glx> ok cloned vspkg 21:06:35 <glx> let's try 21:07:07 <TrueBrain> libpng:x64-windows-static 21:07:12 <TrueBrain> to install the static versions 21:07:17 *** som89 has joined #openttd 21:08:43 <glx> bootstrapping 21:10:35 <TrueBrain> and I downloaded openttd-useful now, and put those libraries in there 21:10:38 <TrueBrain> see if that changes anything 21:10:53 <TrueBrain> they dont link :D 21:11:41 <glx> I hate when a tool changes the font size ;) 21:12:38 <glx> and powershell is not smart enough to add the .exe when I just type vcpkg 21:12:55 <TrueBrain> silly :D 21:13:03 <TrueBrain> okay, the include-files also changed .. 21:14:05 <TrueBrain> -R, nope; -Recursive, nope ... hmm .. -Recurse? YES! 21:14:06 <glx> A suitable version of git was not found (required v2.16.2). Downloading portable git v2.16.2... 21:14:08 <TrueBrain> fukcing dialects 21:14:13 <glx> and I'm in git-shell 21:14:22 <TrueBrain> older version? :) 21:14:33 <glx> ie the powershell opened via github 21:15:03 <andythenorth> SPRITE_STACK works on purchase menu, right? 21:15:04 <andythenorth> :) 21:15:23 <TrueBrain> @roll dice 21:15:26 <TrueBrain> grr @ donar 21:15:31 <TrueBrain> donar? Sorry 21:15:33 <TrueBrain> grr @ DorpsGek 21:15:41 <TrueBrain> trigger-happy-enter-key :( 21:16:56 <TrueBrain> cannot find sprintf 21:17:02 <glx> ah yes git-shell has 2.11.0 21:17:03 <TrueBrain> seems I cannot link against openttd-useful 21:17:31 <TrueBrain> should that work, with vs141? 21:17:37 <glx> ok installed, let's check the sizes 21:18:01 <TrueBrain> is anyone using VS2017? :D 21:18:03 *** supermop_work has joined #openttd 21:18:27 <glx> -a---- 26/04/2018 23:16 2027948 libpng16.lib 21:18:27 <glx> -a---- 26/04/2018 23:15 424940 zlib.lib 21:18:41 <glx> similar to yours I think 21:18:44 <TrueBrain> yup 21:18:53 <TrueBrain> what does compiling against those do for your openttd.exe? 21:18:56 <TrueBrain> and what VS do you use? 21:19:11 <glx> I use community 2015 21:19:47 <TrueBrain> ah 21:20:02 <TrueBrain> well, that at least means you can confirm if it is vcpkg, or 2017 indeed :D 21:20:07 <TrueBrain> so far it seems to be vcpkg :) 21:20:21 <TrueBrain> but yeah .. from what I can tell, openttd-useful, latest, doesn't work with VS2017 .. 21:21:49 <orudge> I wasn't able to get it to work 21:22:01 <orudge> I've been through pretty much what you've been doing tonight 21:22:03 <TrueBrain> legacy_stdio_definitions.lib is needed :D 21:22:24 <orudge> Think I eventually got something building after disabling ICU and installing the other packages with vcpkg 21:23:42 *** Thedarkb has quit IRC 21:23:48 <TrueBrain> I got it to compile; it is just huge when static 21:23:51 <TrueBrain> (and it even runs) 21:23:54 <TrueBrain> but .. ICU 57 :) 21:24:02 <TrueBrain> okay .. I did not install the 140 toolset 21:24:06 <TrueBrain> so I cannot try if that changes anything 21:24:29 <TrueBrain> I could install them; just takes for-ever .. 21:25:32 <TrueBrain> let me see .. what other things did I pick .. 21:25:33 <TrueBrain> 8.1 SDK 21:25:57 <TrueBrain> .NET 4 (instead of 4.6) 21:26:14 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 21:26:33 <TrueBrain> Universal CRT SDK 21:27:36 *** som89_ has joined #openttd 21:28:46 *** berndj-blackout is now known as berndj 21:30:03 *** Progman has quit IRC 21:30:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 21:31:22 *** som89 has quit IRC 21:34:33 *** Gja has quit IRC 21:35:24 <glx> rebuilt openttd and it's still 13.4MB 21:36:10 <TrueBrain> cool; so it is 2017 .. 21:36:16 <TrueBrain> Optimization is set to Full 21:36:22 <TrueBrain> what is the setting in the project for Size? 21:36:43 <glx> but I'm not sure it used the vcpkg build 21:37:01 <TrueBrain> remove the openttd-useful files :P (or rename them ;)) 21:38:26 <TrueBrain> manual say /O1 and /O2, but those are invalid values 21:38:29 <Zuu> Oh... I forgot to add to the script changelog. I knew I forgot something. Now how do I fix this in git? 21:38:31 <TrueBrain> it is now Full .. which is also not in the documentation 21:38:54 <TrueBrain> Zuu: git commit --amend and git rebase -i upstream/master, depending 21:39:02 <TrueBrain> some really good guides about this stuff on the interwebz :) 21:39:11 <TrueBrain> amend works for only the last patch 21:39:15 <TrueBrain> rebase -i for any other 21:39:22 <TrueBrain> git push -f, to force push your update 21:39:24 <Zuu> I'm sure there is a solution. I just need to learn how. 21:40:04 <TrueBrain> and of course, git GUIs :) 21:40:37 <Zuu> I also have a paperback git book. 21:40:41 <TrueBrain> glx: any hints what the correct entry for Optimization could be? :D 21:41:07 <Zuu> hm.. no it was an e-book. 21:41:48 <glx> hmm can't find libpng.lib 21:41:59 <glx> so it doesn't use vcpkg one 21:42:21 <peter1138> I'm using 2017, but with the useful pack obvs 21:42:38 <TrueBrain> peter1138: doesn't link for me without modifications 21:42:49 <TrueBrain> sprintf is no longer available, only with legacy settings on it is 21:42:55 <TrueBrain> (and openttd-useful is compiled with them) 21:42:57 <peter1138> Odd, no issues here. 21:43:07 <TrueBrain> anyway, can either of you please tell me what /O1 is in the project file? 21:43:13 <TrueBrain> the Optimization entry? 21:43:48 <TrueBrain> fucking crap documentation :( 21:43:52 <TrueBrain> ah! MinSpace! 21:44:00 <TrueBrain> after guess 200111 I finally guessed right ... 21:44:28 <peter1138> Uh 21:44:54 <peter1138> I don't know what O1 is. 21:45:04 <TrueBrain> its in the dropdown on the UI :) 21:45:08 <TrueBrain> but I dont have an UI :( 21:46:28 <TrueBrain> good news about OSX: seems the new build fixes issues people having :D \o/ :) 21:49:23 <peter1138> New build? 21:49:34 <Wolf01> 'night 21:49:35 <TrueBrain> the builds I can now make with the new docker 21:49:37 <TrueBrain> night Wolf01 21:49:37 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC 21:49:49 <peter1138> Are they published somewhere then? 21:49:56 <TrueBrain> experimental, yes 21:50:38 <TrueBrain> okay, MinSpace doesnt change the binary size :P 21:51:41 <Zuu> If I did push my faulty commits, I should not use rebase? Instead I should make a new branch? (I have two commits and want to change the first one) 21:51:52 <TrueBrain> rebase 21:51:57 <TrueBrain> new branch means new PR, which is annoying :D 21:52:13 <TrueBrain> (I did already mention that above :P) 21:52:14 <Zuu> But git help page says I should not rewrite public history 21:52:21 <TrueBrain> yes; they say a lot of things :) 21:52:25 <Zuu> :-) 21:52:27 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 21:52:29 <TrueBrain> and strictly seen, they are correct 21:52:36 <TrueBrain> just lets not assume someone forked your work :P 21:52:43 <TrueBrain> (otherwise they will be pissed I guess) 21:53:06 <TrueBrain> if there is only 1 commit in your PR you are fixing, you can just commit your fixes as new patches 21:53:09 <peter1138> Ish. It's not hard for them to rebase either. 21:53:11 <TrueBrain> but as you had 2 commits in your PR, you have to rebase 21:53:37 <TrueBrain> peter1138: seeing the rants I have gotten for forcing rebase of OpenTTD, I am not sure that is true :P 21:53:49 <peter1138> Well 21:54:02 <peter1138> Yeah, I guess it's tricky if they've been merging bits all over the place. 21:54:28 <Zuu> Now ... this works (rebase -i upstream/master, with the new change as a third commit that I moved and squashed) 21:55:22 <TrueBrain> now a push will tell you: OMG YOU REWROTE HISTORY WHAT ARE YOU DOING 21:55:26 <TrueBrain> so you just tell him: -f :) 21:55:36 <Zuu> Just did :-) 21:55:47 <TrueBrain> worked perfectly :) 21:55:55 <peter1138> TrueBrain, yeah, LC_ALL=C didn't solve anything. 21:56:05 <peter1138> Already tried that ;p 21:56:35 <TrueBrain> peter1138: it does solve any locale issue 21:56:39 <TrueBrain> all I was saying :P 21:56:47 <peter1138> Ok. It's not a locale issue :-) 21:56:56 <TrueBrain> :) 21:57:08 <TrueBrain> okay, disabled tons of stuff in the MSVC project, binary stays HUGE 21:57:32 <Zuu> Oh and I think this whole OpenTTD moving to git is a good thing by the way. 21:57:32 <TrueBrain> it ... just .. doesnt .. want ... to .. shrink ... 21:57:48 <peter1138> pkzip it :D 21:58:00 <TrueBrain> Zuu: I think so too :D 21:58:07 <TrueBrain> peter1138: yeah .. well, it is not the size itself that worries me 21:58:11 <TrueBrain> just to huge jump of 100% 21:58:23 <TrueBrain> the Mac OS X is also this size 21:58:39 <peter1138> Hmm 21:59:00 <peter1138> Using useful is out the question I guess. 21:59:11 <peter1138> Hmm, what's this other thing you used then? Maybe I can try it and see what I get. 21:59:18 <TrueBrain> vcpkg 21:59:28 <TrueBrain> supplied by Microsoft :D 21:59:43 <peter1138> What do I have to do to invoke that? 21:59:53 <peter1138> I'm too lazy to look anything up :p 22:00:01 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/Microsoft/vcpkg 22:00:05 <TrueBrain> follow README 22:00:15 <peter1138> My brain is frazzled already from trying to get jenkins/warnings/gendarme to work. 22:02:54 <TrueBrain> peter1138: and I am not against openttd-useful; it is only a very old solution for an old problem :) Migrating to a modern solution does have my preference 22:03:01 <TrueBrain> (as I have been doing with the linux and OSX targets too) 22:03:06 <peter1138> TrueBrain, I agree. 22:03:22 <peter1138> I have no idea who compiled it, what versions are in there, etc... 22:03:25 <TrueBrain> it just means I am grumpy while figuring out what the heck it is doing :P 22:03:37 <TrueBrain> there is also a -source package, which has the 'what versions' question 22:03:46 <TrueBrain> and Rb compiled it :) No clue which VS :P 22:03:55 <TrueBrain> I did try to keep the loop as close as possible :) 22:04:22 <peter1138> mm 22:05:54 <TrueBrain> disabled GL, disabled other optimizations, MinSpace, etc .. no change in binary size 22:05:58 <TrueBrain> so I guess it is really the libraries 22:06:32 <peter1138> Well, that's installed cmake... 22:06:50 <TrueBrain> most of vcpkg is done via cmake 22:06:56 <TrueBrain> so much easier than a weird project file 22:08:01 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 22:09:48 <Eddi|zuHause> why does it need to be static? 22:11:54 <peter1138> Habit? 22:14:18 <TrueBrain> no; compiling against DLLs is even more of a pain 22:14:30 <TrueBrain> both in distribution as in telling people about them ..... 22:14:39 <TrueBrain> we used to do it with SDL.dll .. ugh .. 22:18:19 <TrueBrain> okay, I ran out of ideas :( 22:18:44 <peter1138> Hmm. 22:18:45 <TrueBrain> tomorrow I will build x86, see what that does 22:18:57 <TrueBrain> and I want to figure out how to run regressions again (totally forgot) 22:19:09 <peter1138> "All installed libraries are immediately ready to be #include'd and used in your project without additional configuration" 22:19:12 <TrueBrain> means I at least can fix the CI .. 22:19:13 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i have something useful to contribute here 22:19:13 <peter1138> Apparently not ;( 22:19:29 <TrueBrain> peter1138: ghehe, I had the same :D 22:19:35 <TrueBrain> did you install the static version? 22:19:43 <peter1138> I, er, what? 22:19:45 <TrueBrain> lol 22:19:52 <TrueBrain> vcpkg install zlib:x64-windows-static 22:19:56 <TrueBrain> installs the static version 22:20:06 <TrueBrain> either way, you can control if vcpkg is loaded in your projects by two settings 22:20:13 <TrueBrain> VcpkgEnabled (enables it, no shit) 22:20:25 <TrueBrain> VcpkgTriplet, this sets what version to use .. x64-windows, x64-windows-static, etc 22:20:29 <TrueBrain> this part is a bit poorly documented 22:20:39 <TrueBrain> no clue how it works with an UI :D 22:21:01 <peter1138> what's the magic to install icu 57? 22:21:20 <TrueBrain> open the ports file, change 61 to 57, (a few times .. 6 or so? I just used sed) 22:21:26 <peter1138> o_O 22:21:33 <TrueBrain> install icu, it yells that the sha no longer matches .. copy the sha in the ports file 22:21:56 <peter1138> oh dear 22:21:58 <TrueBrain> and this will become more and more a problem 22:22:04 <TrueBrain> and ICU 57 is the last one with Layout 22:22:07 <TrueBrain> and it is deprecated 22:22:12 <peter1138> so nothing actually useful like "-version 57" :( 22:22:18 <peter1138> hmm, isn't Layout all we use it for? 22:22:18 <TrueBrain> owh, no 22:22:25 <TrueBrain> no, we use ICU for more 22:22:28 <TrueBrain> but the Layout is the issue 22:22:32 <TrueBrain> ICU stopped doing that 22:22:46 <TrueBrain> we really really have to replace it soon 22:22:52 <TrueBrain> the next Debian cannot be compiled 22:23:03 *** som89 has joined #openttd 22:23:05 <peter1138> pango is easy to install with this 22:23:12 <peter1138> but shit, that's a ton of dependencies. 22:23:18 <TrueBrain> Ubuntu 18.04 won't work either 22:23:20 <peter1138> oh well, if it's static no matter 22:23:33 <TrueBrain> so the preasure to get pango done is getting higher and higher :) 22:23:53 <peter1138> Has anyone started it? 22:23:57 <TrueBrain> no clue 22:24:00 <peter1138> k 22:24:19 <TrueBrain> but 18.04 is ICU 60 .. 22:24:27 <TrueBrain> so yeah, we are in a bit of shit when 18.04 hits the market :) 22:24:37 <TrueBrain> as I think many Linux users use that :) 22:24:43 <peter1138> static build ;) 22:24:54 <peter1138> snap/flatpak! 22:25:04 <peter1138> distribute openttd as a docker image lol 22:25:35 <peter1138> hmm, i don't actually know what we use icu for 22:25:42 <peter1138> so converting it to pango won't be easy for me 22:26:41 <TrueBrain> something to do with fonts, I have been told :P 22:26:44 <peter1138> if it's even possible 22:26:47 <TrueBrain> but freetype and fontconfig? Dunno 22:26:52 *** som89_ has quit IRC 22:26:56 <TrueBrain> I have been told there is a drop-in replacement 22:27:07 <peter1138> a quick look at pango docs and it seems tightly coupled to gdk, which ... we don't use. 22:27:50 <TrueBrain> ICU suggests using HarfBuzz .. no clue what that is :D 22:28:25 <peter1138> hm 22:28:52 <peter1138> https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/HarfBuzz/ 22:28:57 <peter1138> interesting link at the bottom 22:29:05 <TrueBrain> they have icu-le-hb 22:29:09 <TrueBrain> that is a drop-in replacement 22:30:25 <TrueBrain> Google as copyright holder 22:30:41 <peter1138> Damn, no port for that 22:31:17 <TrueBrain> there is for HarfBuzz? 22:31:22 <peter1138> es 22:31:25 <peter1138> Yes 22:31:33 <TrueBrain> that is something I guess 22:31:48 <peter1138> It's a dependency of pango 22:31:55 <TrueBrain> I am guessing you want to vendor icu-le-hb anyway 22:32:29 <TrueBrain> mainly as it should be a temporary thing :) 22:32:45 <TrueBrain> either way, from what I understood, we use ICU for other things too .. so it would still mean we need ICU :P 22:32:54 <TrueBrain> just no clue about any of that :) 22:33:08 <peter1138> Indeed. I just know all randomly appeared "one day" 22:33:22 <peter1138> Wasn't there when I implemented freetype :) 22:34:08 <TrueBrain> but okay ... tomorrow Windows binary for 32bit/64bit .. getting it linked to CI .. 22:34:19 <TrueBrain> than I guess I have to try mingw32 and mingw64 22:34:23 <TrueBrain> or only the latter 22:34:27 <TrueBrain> and link that to CI 22:34:32 <TrueBrain> than I have to fix a new supybot .. 22:34:38 <TrueBrain> as I want to say: bot, make release 22:34:42 <TrueBrain> and that it makes a releasefor a PR 22:34:43 <peter1138> heh 22:34:47 <TrueBrain> as I want to test some of those ....... 22:35:15 <peter1138> i guess compile farm is all separate to CI? 22:35:29 <TrueBrain> the CI dockers can also create release binaries 22:35:38 <TrueBrain> (in fact, they do, just not publish them) 22:35:42 <peter1138> mmm 22:36:05 <TrueBrain> peter1138: but if you have VS2017, possibly you can try all libraries except icu from vcpkg, and icu from openttd-useful 22:36:09 <TrueBrain> and see what your release binary size does 22:36:20 <peter1138> that's my plan :-) 22:36:40 <TrueBrain> any additional information of VS2015 / VS2017 with any combination would seriously help 22:37:02 <peter1138> dmusic hmm 22:37:07 <TrueBrain> as currently I have no clue if this is optimizations against speed, or just something being dipshit crazy 22:37:10 <TrueBrain> 64bit doesnt need dmusic 22:37:19 <TrueBrain> so if you need dmusic, you are doing the wrong target :D 22:37:29 <peter1138> Try 22:37:31 <peter1138> True 22:37:45 <TrueBrain> but I am off to bed :) Tnx both peter1138 and glx :) 22:37:45 <peter1138> vcpkg does 32 bit default and i couldn't be arsed to change it :p 22:37:59 <TrueBrain> vcpkg install libpng:x64-windows-static :) 22:38:07 <TrueBrain> anyway, night :) 22:38:48 <peter1138> night 22:39:06 <peter1138> wonder if you can put vcpkg install in the project :p 22:39:06 *** supermop_work has quit IRC 22:51:43 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 22:54:04 *** Zuu has quit IRC 23:07:59 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1013 23:08:00 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 23:11:56 *** Guest1013 has quit IRC 23:20:15 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 23:28:27 *** Thedarkb-X40 has quit IRC 23:50:14 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:52:31 *** Flygon has joined #openttd