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00:01:28 <peter1138> TrueBrain, hmm, git commit 60f0610a851 is strange, did moving that equation make a big CPU difference I wonder? 00:42:44 <peter1138> bc 00:53:00 <Eddi|zuHause> ENotAShell 00:56:25 *** Flygon has joined #openttd 01:01:12 *** Thedarkb1 has quit IRC 01:08:55 <peter1138> Well shit, how is that happen. I better go to bed. 01:21:43 *** Thedarkb1 has joined #openttd 01:29:42 <Thedarkb1-X40> Has anyone ever tried a hub and spoke style network? 01:34:10 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 01:35:42 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 01:50:14 *** glx has quit IRC 02:03:18 <Eddi|zuHause> a spooky network? 02:03:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i had that 02:03:59 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i think it's probably a terrible idea 02:32:35 *** Coobies has joined #openttd 02:37:50 *** Cubey has quit IRC 02:47:51 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 02:51:54 *** muffindrake3 has joined #openttd 02:53:47 *** muffindrake2 has quit IRC 03:14:25 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has joined #openttd 03:20:07 *** HerzogDeXtEr has quit IRC 04:03:55 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 04:48:46 *** Coobies has quit IRC 05:08:58 *** snail_UES_ has quit IRC 05:31:07 *** Alberth has joined #openttd 05:31:07 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth 05:52:09 <Rubidium> woopsie... forgot that my MIPS QEMU was still in temp when I shut my computer down yesterday :( 05:53:46 <Eddi|zuHause> you... shut down your computer? 05:55:27 <Rubidium> yeah 05:58:03 <Alberth> :( 05:58:03 *** Wacko1976 has joined #openttd 06:03:04 <Rubidium> ah well, strgen resulted in the same files so it should (tm) work fine 06:10:40 *** nielsm has joined #openttd 06:19:00 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 06:19:04 <andythenorth> o/ 06:32:28 *** Progman has joined #openttd 06:39:50 *** synchris has joined #openttd 06:42:52 *** Wacko1976 has quit IRC 06:55:10 <andythenorth> @seen pikka 06:55:10 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: pikka was last seen in #openttd 18 hours, 53 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <Pikka> at that point, why not just turn plane crashes off? 07:49:51 *** Pikka has joined #openttd 07:50:15 <andythenorth> see 07:57:46 <Pikka> I do see 07:58:30 <andythenorth> my train set doesn't work 07:58:47 <andythenorth> I played a game to try it 08:00:49 <Pikka> what's wrong with it? 08:01:17 <andythenorth> flippant answer: no super deltic (4,400hp proposed but never built) 08:01:20 <andythenorth> serious answer 08:01:54 <andythenorth> 'one obvious engine choice' works brilliantly, except when it gets monotonous 08:02:23 <andythenorth> for pax there are more options, electric, diesel, metro, railcar, etc 08:02:41 <andythenorth> but for freight, I do a lot of TL5, and it's all moguls or 37s 08:04:17 <Pikka> isn't that going to be the case even with "realistic" sets? I mean the more powerful engines are only use for higher TL + weight multiplier 08:04:28 <andythenorth> actually in my test game it's not all 37s, it just seems that way 08:04:32 <andythenorth> 13 out of 53 trains 08:04:53 <andythenorth> I think there's a difference between 'one obvious choice' and 'only one choice' 08:05:22 <andythenorth> hmm 08:05:40 <Pikka> I'm not sure it's possible to not have an "obvious choice" in TTD 08:05:54 <andythenorth> it's possible to obscure the choice :) 08:06:13 <Pikka> "realistic" sets have an advantage in that players will choose vehicles for reasons other than game mechanics 08:06:39 <andythenorth> see NARS 2 :) 08:06:50 <Pikka> yep 08:07:30 <Pikka> whereas something like Pineapple Trains, where the vehicles are completely fictitious... it already has a low number of locos, and adding more would be pointless because there's just not enough gameplay niches 08:07:44 <Pikka> they'd either not be used, or they'd cause something else to not be used 08:08:02 <andythenorth> I keep poking at adding a 1200hp engine, below the 37 08:08:10 <andythenorth> but it would be under-powered for TL5 08:08:19 <andythenorth> maybe I just need another livery :P 08:08:39 <andythenorth> I banned engine liveries 08:09:11 <Pikka> Rats... nice for shorter trains, and little passenger trains @ 90mph, but not enough power for heavy freight. They work. :) 08:09:33 <Pikka> or double headed on heavy freight, doubleheading is always nice 08:09:35 <andythenorth> kind of got the OP 73 for that 08:10:01 <andythenorth> maybe I add a joker steam engine around 1950 or so 08:11:31 <andythenorth> I added a joker heavy electric :) http://bundles.openttdcoop.org/iron-horse/push/LATEST/docs/html/trains.html#peasweep 08:11:48 <andythenorth> doesn't align with the standard intro dates or model life 08:13:36 <Pikka> "generations" can get a bit stale 08:13:47 <andythenorth> they do 08:13:52 <andythenorth> especially when it's just another 37 08:14:06 <Pikka> oh dear 08:14:11 <Pikka> civilai's gone rogue 08:14:15 <andythenorth> generations aren't a flawed concept 08:14:18 <Pikka> it's got six trains on a two-train line 08:14:26 <andythenorth> child A reports that Civil AI is a good competitor btw 08:14:35 <andythenorth> he says when it gets ships, it will be super hard and OP 08:14:39 <Pikka> :D 08:14:48 <Pikka> I'd better add ships then 08:14:58 <andythenorth> hmm, is a garratt needed? 08:15:03 <Pikka> adding more variety to the train networks atm 08:15:04 <andythenorth> is it ever needed? :P 08:15:12 <Pikka> I don't know 08:15:17 <Pikka> they're a bugger to draw though :P 08:15:26 <andythenorth> they are, I tried 2 for the african roster 08:15:39 <andythenorth> file under DVTs 08:15:40 <andythenorth> just no 08:16:16 <Pikka> unless you really abstracted the articulation, rather than trying to make them look realistic 08:16:57 <Pikka> still need a quintuplex for NA ;) 08:18:59 <andythenorth> I should make a nuts style set 08:19:19 <andythenorth> all fake 08:20:27 <Pikka> you shouldn't, tbh. It's fun to play with concepts but I think the "model train" aspect is what makes TTD work. People like trains they recognise. 08:20:40 <andythenorth> me too 08:20:48 <andythenorth> but I keep finding pages about 'never built' UK trains 08:21:10 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 08:21:16 <andythenorth> the problem with 5000hp diesels in 1970 is where to go in 2020 with progression 08:21:34 <andythenorth> anyway, is it one of these as a joker? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR_Q1_class 08:22:02 <Pikka> definitely, Q1s are great 08:22:09 <Pikka> and an original TT vehicle :P 08:22:11 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 08:23:51 * andythenorth adds it to 'todo' 08:25:31 *** debdog has quit IRC 08:30:11 <andythenorth> hmm maybe FLHerne's suggestion for mixed traffic, round 3 08:33:58 <andythenorth> or it's quite enough already http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9024/enough_horse_.png 08:34:03 <andythenorth> 1989 ^ 08:35:22 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 08:36:16 <Alberth> o/ 08:37:59 <andythenorth> ho 08:39:19 *** Wolf01 has joined #openttd 08:39:55 <Wolf01> o/ 08:40:44 <Wolf01> TrueBrain what are you doing with datacenters? :D "Repairs are ongoing after a massive power outage in the Amsterdam region that affected many services." 08:45:21 <Rubidium> sounds like a bad datacenter 08:47:47 <Rubidium> can't even spot a dip in Amsterdam's internet exchange throughput 08:48:40 <Wolf01> Telegram is down, they are working on it 08:48:47 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a power supply "hiccup" at DE-CIX a few weeks ago 08:49:44 <Eddi|zuHause> as in "the backup generators ran out of fuel after 2 hours" 08:50:02 <Alberth> Airport Schiphol had very long queues due to power outage 08:52:13 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 08:52:37 <Rubidium> why does checkin seems to be such an achilles heel for airports? 08:53:28 * Eddi|zuHause mumbles something about bombs and skyscrapers 08:54:46 <Wolf01> Now I'm doing something I didn't do for a LONG time, I'm reinstalling a WinXP laptop 08:55:24 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: lately I'm only hearing of huge delays on airports because the checkin system did not function for one reason or another 08:55:27 *** Zexaron has joined #openttd 08:55:35 <Wolf01> Couldn't wait to get all those wild viruses again 08:56:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: would you rather hear of delays because the air traffic control system didn't work? 08:58:43 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: nope, but ATC not functioning has way more safe guards than airports closing entry roads due to check-in not working and due to that people walking with suitcases on the high way... 08:59:43 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i think the checkin system is probably uniquely qualified for huge delays because it a) is not safety relevant, so less rigorously tested and checked, and b) complex enough that _something_ will probably break (checking tickets against the database, routing baggage along conveyor belts, ...) 08:59:51 <Rubidium> those ATC people are trained to still function, although less efficiently, without radar and other electronic help. Only when the radio fails there's a huge problem, but even then planes can coordinate between eachother 09:01:41 <Rubidium> i.e. the pilots can and will communicate with eachother, but on the highway... they'll have barely any notice of people walking there 09:03:00 <Eddi|zuHause> humans do weird stuff in large groups 09:06:12 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 09:10:54 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd 09:14:45 *** Gja has joined #openttd 09:16:25 *** andythenorth has quit IRC 09:23:37 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd 09:29:09 <Alberth> o/ 09:29:19 <frosch123> moi 09:42:39 *** Wormnest has joined #openttd 09:53:33 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd 09:54:18 <andythenorth_> 90mph gronk? 09:55:08 *** andythen_ has joined #openttd 09:55:30 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd 09:57:58 *** andythen_ has quit IRC 10:02:22 *** andythenorth_ has quit IRC 10:14:31 <nielsm> hmm is there any patch that extends "disallow train reversing in stations" with a third option, where multiple units (with cabs at both ends) are allowed to reverse in stations but non-MUs are not? 10:16:12 *** chomwitt has quit IRC 10:17:14 <frosch123> there are newgrf which set the speed limit to something like 30 km/h when driving in a weird direction 10:19:13 <nielsm> that would have to be combined with something that reverses the entire consist when the train reverses at end of line, right? 10:19:52 <nielsm> meaning you'd get consists with no engine at the front 10:27:11 <frosch123> let's say, it is comilicated :) 10:27:14 <frosch123> +p 10:27:23 <TrueBrain> [02:01] <peter1138> TrueBrain, hmm, git commit 60f0610a851 is strange, did moving that equation make a big CPU difference I wonder? <- I think this came from a profile; so most likely it was. We did a few optimizations based on profiles. I rarely do any optimizations unless I know it matters :) 10:38:59 <TrueBrain> frosch123: OS check, do we want to keep support for the following: FreeBSD, DragonFly, OpenBSD, NetBSD, HP-UX, MorphOS, BeOS, Haiku, SunOS, Solaris, Cygwin, OS2, DOS, WINCE, PSP ? 10:41:11 <frosch123> in the past two years we had contributions for some BSD and OS/2 10:41:39 <frosch123> dos is only toyed on by rb and roboboy (or whatever nick he uses these days) 10:42:15 <frosch123> hpux, morphos, beos, haiku, sunos, solaris, wince and psp i have not seen in the past 10 years 10:42:32 <frosch123> i have no idea whether people use cygwin, or rather mingw 10:42:40 <TrueBrain> we can aks glx that 10:42:46 <TrueBrain> but I havent seen Cygwin in a long long time :) 10:43:18 <TrueBrain> okay, so I will see if I can make Dockers for the BSDs. OS/2 .. well, nice gimmick, find by me (does it have a c++11 compiler?) 10:43:25 <TrueBrain> DOS I will ask Rb, but I think that is fine too 10:43:38 <TrueBrain> means I am going to make a commit to remove the others; espcially those with a lot of special code 10:46:37 <Alberth> you can also drop anything without c++11 support, I guess 10:46:48 <TrueBrain> which is a bit hard to explore :) 10:46:51 <Alberth> not sure if that helps :) 10:47:03 <nielsm> just check if clang exists for the platform? 10:47:03 <TrueBrain> But stuff like PSP and WinCE are just experiments gone bad ... 10:47:10 <TrueBrain> I checked in PSP :P 10:47:19 <TrueBrain> nielsm: not a bad idea tbh 10:49:02 <nielsm> if you have clang, X11, and OSS, I'd wager most real unices can be supported without any special handling 10:49:25 <TrueBrain> and cmake :D 10:53:34 <frosch123> TrueBrain: i guess when it comes to gcc, we only support g++ >= 6.0 10:54:04 <frosch123> so, all the gcc 3/4 things can leave 10:54:25 <TrueBrain> that would be a nice cleanup too 10:57:33 <frosch123> though RHEL7 only has gcc 4.8 10:57:44 <frosch123> which supports c++11 inofficially 10:57:50 <frosch123> but no gc++14 10:58:31 <TrueBrain> but we were going to do c++11, not? or c++14? 10:59:01 <frosch123> i would prefer c++14, it finishes stuff that c++11 started 10:59:16 <frosch123> i would say no to c++11 closures :p 10:59:18 <TrueBrain> so we drop RHEL7? :) 10:59:29 <frosch123> yep :) 10:59:39 <TrueBrain> dont know what closures are :P 10:59:56 <frosch123> lambda functions or annoynmous functions 11:00:35 <frosch123> std::bind, but sane 11:03:31 <LordAro> you can get newer compilers for RHEL 11:08:52 *** Thedarkb1 has quit IRC 11:13:29 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd 11:19:27 *** Thedarkb1-X40 has quit IRC 11:25:10 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Current FISH 2 (2.0.3) on Bananas is named 'Squid Ate Fish r1687' in the selection menu 11:25:16 *** Zexaron has quit IRC 11:25:24 <FLHerne> This is a bit confusing 11:25:30 <andythenorth> yeah 11:25:39 <andythenorth> the names seem to be really unreliable 11:25:41 <andythenorth> tbh 11:25:54 * FLHerne just spent a few minutes trying to get rid of whatever weird devel version was masking the stable release, until realising... 11:26:38 <andythenorth> I've never worked out where OpenTTD gets the names from 11:26:56 <andythenorth> we rewrote a newgrf makefile to try and eliminate this issue 11:27:08 <andythenorth> but still happens, had a broken FIRS release recently due to this 11:28:18 <andythenorth> I won't fix Squid, it's legacy now 11:28:21 <andythenorth> just unfortunate :P 11:30:34 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 11:30:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 11:32:41 <Wolf01> Ha firefox... started from FF15, updated to 43, to 47, to 52esr and now is dowloading another update... 11:32:58 <Wolf01> Downloading too 11:33:27 <andythenorth> FLHerne: if there was a similar-sized alternative to the Growler, what would it be? 11:33:37 <andythenorth> introduced sometime 1950-1975 11:34:20 <FLHerne> Hymek? 11:34:40 <FLHerne> 31s for ubiquity, but a bit underpowered 11:34:43 <FLHerne> (in RL, too...) 11:34:58 <andythenorth> needs to be 8/8 long, at least if you squint 11:35:44 <FLHerne> Would say 40, but a squashed 40 would be indistinguishable :P 11:36:04 <andythenorth> yeah I had same thought 11:36:04 <FLHerne> It's annoying that all the Modernisation Plan locos were so crap... 11:36:12 <andythenorth> well Horse alllows faking 11:36:24 <andythenorth> co-bo :P 11:36:31 <andythenorth> too-long class 33 11:37:27 *** tokai has quit IRC 11:37:34 <FLHerne> You don't actually have a 47 yet, do you? 11:37:39 <FLHerne> But you do have 57s, so meh 11:38:15 <FLHerne> Warships aren't really comparable 11:39:44 <andythenorth> the Dragon / Wizzo is kind of a warship 11:39:49 <andythenorth> also kind of a western 11:40:03 <andythenorth> could do a 50 and hobble the stats 11:40:17 <andythenorth> but it would just look like the thunderbird 11:40:37 *** gelignite has joined #openttd 11:40:40 <FLHerne> I guess technically, some of the Standard steam locos are 'sometime 1950-...' 11:40:46 <FLHerne> (but no) 11:41:06 <Pikka> GT3 o/ 11:41:27 <andythenorth> class 38? https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2163/5768081105_c46bfb6fb9_b.jpg 11:42:05 <andythenorth> Pikka: you actually doing GT3? o_O 11:42:17 <Pikka> no :P 11:42:32 <FLHerne> Deltic for the express, and cut back the Dragon to be mixed-traffickey? 11:42:51 <FLHerne> But then the Deltic still looks very 37ish at TT scale.. 11:42:54 <andythenorth> it's like that rule in Bill and Ted 11:42:56 <andythenorth> "No Deltics" 11:43:16 <andythenorth> oh it was Wayne's World but eh 11:43:18 <FLHerne> UKRS2 has a GT3 11:43:24 <FLHerne> Not sure why... 11:43:29 <andythenorth> http://www.aguywalksinto365bars.com/storage/19.%20michaelssign-352.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1293570404015 11:43:39 <andythenorth> Led Zellepin policy 11:44:19 <FLHerne> (correction, it's in the extension) 11:44:52 <andythenorth> current lead contender is Class 75 11:44:57 <andythenorth> and introduce it in 1975 11:45:11 <andythenorth> dunno what it would look like though 11:45:12 <FLHerne> Those funny Ivatt prototypes would be about right 11:45:29 <FLHerne> (would still have the EE-family-look problem) 11:45:41 <andythenorth> there's the big Southern 1 11:46:00 <andythenorth> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_D16/2 11:46:06 *** Gja has quit IRC 11:46:14 <andythenorth> right power band, unusual shape 11:46:32 <andythenorth> but wrong era 11:47:01 <andythenorth> I'd rather do the bulleid 0-6-0 in 1945 or so, then do a replacement for it in 1975 11:47:22 <FLHerne> https://i.pinimg.com/236x/76/70/7f/76707ffff5c191a197e4b40a0d6d0dc1.jpg 11:48:59 <Pikka> that'a a nice prototype Class 40 you have there ;) 11:49:07 <FLHerne> Well, yes 11:49:19 <FLHerne> It just looks /slightly/ more different from a 37 :P 11:49:30 <Pikka> I meant D16/2 11:49:37 <FLHerne> Ah 11:49:46 <Pikka> the 10000 was more like a prototype 37 :) 11:49:49 <andythenorth> it doesn't solve my 1975 problem :) 11:50:17 <andythenorth> how many bone-shaped engines can I do :P 11:50:18 <Pikka> why do you need one? what's wrong with the 37? :) 11:50:30 <andythenorth> I want to add an alternative 11:51:07 <andythenorth> I've added a 'joker' roster 11:51:13 <andythenorth> like UKRS 2 extended 11:51:35 <andythenorth> no garratts though :P 11:52:08 <peter1138> hi 11:52:29 <FLHerne> Maybe do the 37 in 1960, then replace it by the 57/0 and add a stretched 67 for express? 11:52:39 <FLHerne> ^in 1990 11:53:33 <andythenorth> could work 11:54:04 <andythenorth> the 57 is really a 50 11:54:06 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 11:54:23 <andythenorth> put diesel engine in this? o_O http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/img/gi_33_71_700_244.jpg 11:55:17 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 11:55:23 *** bwn has quit IRC 11:57:10 <andythenorth> OR 11:57:32 <andythenorth> I could fix the narrow gauge roster, and give the option of building entirely different railtype 11:57:44 <andythenorth> which might be better than spamming more engines 11:58:18 <peter1138> There was a spate of newgrfs that did that. 11:58:28 <peter1138> Oh yeah, I was scrolled up :p 11:58:44 <andythenorth> 'did that' ? o_O 11:58:46 <andythenorth> did what? 11:59:00 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Isn't that just a class 128? 11:59:12 <peter1138> fake reversing 11:59:41 <peter1138> Hmm, so news and ticker working at normal speed in FFWD... 12:00:34 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 12:01:02 <peter1138> Heh, viewport scrolling speeds up in FFWD still. 12:06:25 <andythenorth> irish GM bone thing? https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7737/26820148850_8e4b3e0094_b.jpg 12:06:44 <andythenorth> that one's northern irish, to be strictly accurate 12:13:31 *** bwn has joined #openttd 12:20:05 * nielsm thinks about how to modify the music system to support music renderers with pcm output instead of midi 12:20:32 <nielsm> while still keeping midi support in too 12:27:20 <TrueBrain> right .. removed 2 OSes, which were the most annoying :P (PSP and WinCE) 12:27:37 <TrueBrain> others have less of a code impact it seems 12:27:47 <nielsm> wince sounds like it depended on msvc6 support 12:28:08 <TrueBrain> MorphOS and BeOS are next; they also have a few ifdefs around 12:31:31 <frosch123> TrueBrain: what indentation style does source.list use? 12:31:36 <frosch123> you switch from tabs to spaces 12:31:49 <frosch123> in the wince diff 12:32:12 <frosch123> well, i both diffs 12:32:17 <frosch123> +n 12:35:53 <TrueBrain> ugh 12:35:56 <TrueBrain> lemme fix 12:37:14 <TrueBrain> bit annoying how my editor does that 12:38:43 <peter1138> nielsm, music system probably won't care. You'd probably want to modify the mixer to dedicate 2 channels to music. 12:39:00 *** debdog has joined #openttd 12:39:05 <peter1138> Fortunately the mixer is independent (for now) of the sound driver in use. 12:39:11 <TrueBrain> and the PSP diff also had that frosch123 .. should be fixed now, I hope :) 12:39:37 <TrueBrain> nope 12:39:38 <TrueBrain> ffs :P 12:39:49 <nielsm> peter1138 the music playback system would have to know how to handle non-midi files and send them to an appropriate decoder instead 12:39:56 <frosch123> he, i was just questioning my browser cache :p 12:40:03 <nielsm> also, am I reading right that the mixer runs at 11 kHz right now? 12:41:20 <TrueBrain> frosch123: now! :) 12:42:08 <nielsm> oh, I see the sound driver sets mixer rate 12:44:02 <peter1138> non-midi? why? 12:44:30 <nielsm> and for music purposes I think it would make more sense to have a partially separate system, since the mixer currently assumes all sounds are short samples, not continuous streams, so something where the music system gives the mixer a function/object pointer that then supplies samples to get mixed in as well 12:44:36 <nielsm> well, things like mp3 files? 12:44:46 <frosch123> TrueBrain: does jenkins currently build two revisions of the branch in parallel? 12:44:48 <peter1138> Why would you want that? 12:44:49 <nielsm> or an fm synth reading the dos version opl2 music 12:45:20 <peter1138> nielsm, limit your scope. 12:45:24 <peter1138> Stick with MIDI first. 12:45:31 <nielsm> not allowed to dream? :) 12:45:38 <peter1138> Get that working, then consider how to extend to other formats. 12:46:15 <TrueBrain> frosch123: the CI can only do 1 thing at the time, so no? 12:46:20 <TrueBrain> why do you ask? 12:46:49 <frosch123> https://farm.openttd.org/jenkins/job/OpenTTD/job/OpenTTD/view/change-requests/job/PR-6760/ <- #4 and #5 are active 12:46:53 <TrueBrain> owh, yes 12:46:56 <TrueBrain> the master already picked it up 12:47:03 <TrueBrain> but he cannot assign a node to work on 12:47:26 <TrueBrain> this is because the master has a free slot .. but is not allowed to continue :D 12:47:55 <TrueBrain> and this is because the master spins up a docker, and deligates the full job there .. just I told him he can only have 1 docker slave spinned up :) 12:48:03 <TrueBrain> so master is now waiting for a slave to become available .. 12:48:08 <TrueBrain> guess I could configure it differently, but meh :) 12:58:04 <andythenorth> so if class 15 was (a) not crap (b) not scrapped (c) longer + more powerful? http://dev.openttdcoop.org/attachments/download/9025/long_horse.png 12:59:09 <andythenorth> looks french :P http://img.xooimage.com/files42/b/6/d/040-da---a1a-a1a-...da32-tvt-20c00eb.jpg 12:59:20 *** som89 has joined #openttd 13:11:09 <_dp_> if (t->growth_rate != 0xFFFF) ? t->growth_rate 13:11:21 <_dp_> ha, that's where I fell asleep yesterday xD 13:21:13 <nielsm> listening to ttd dos opl2 music in dosbox while reading the dosbox opl2/3/adlib emulation code 13:21:54 <nielsm> it looks very manageable, and reversing the ttd dos opl2 music driver shouldn't be too bad, a cursory look makes it look very similar to the mpu401 one 13:23:35 <FLHerne> andythenorth: I kinda like it 13:23:36 <frosch123> does it sound any different to the general midi? 13:23:47 <nielsm> well yes 13:23:52 <nielsm> completely different 13:23:55 <FLHerne> Not really a fan of fictional engines, but that's a pretty good one 13:24:40 <nielsm> http://users.tt-forums.net/jfs/ <- recordings from a (different) fm synth I made many many years ago 13:25:05 <nielsm> how it sounded when I played it in the mid-90's :) 13:26:25 *** sim-al2 is now known as Guest1248 13:26:27 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 13:27:37 *** som89_ has joined #openttd 13:28:03 <peter1138> TTO theme was much better. 13:28:10 <nielsm> it's soothing 13:28:20 <peter1138> Very similar though. 13:28:26 <andythenorth> FLHerne: it's a possibility 13:28:48 <andythenorth> co-co version of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_10800, 1945 or so 13:29:13 <andythenorth> or I make it look more like a 58 and put it in 1975 13:29:22 <andythenorth> the main thing is that engines look different :P 13:30:56 *** Guest1248 has quit IRC 13:31:37 *** som89 has quit IRC 13:35:05 <TrueBrain> wow, Haiku is still an actively maintained OS .. 13:35:39 <TrueBrain> so is MorphOS 13:36:18 <frosch123> i think heise had an headline about a new morphos release last year 13:36:22 <nielsm> well, so are various games dating back 20+ years too :) 13:36:50 <TrueBrain> guess for now I will only be removing BeOS .. as that really is a dead OS :) 13:44:05 <Wolf01> Mmmh, lapdog with XP is just as slow as before... dunno... it was really fast for the first 2 restarts, now it takes again 10-12 minutes to be ready for work 13:46:13 <Alberth> it downloaded old performance characteristics for your type of computer and adaped :p 13:46:20 <Alberth> *adapted 13:46:21 <Wolf01> Probably 13:47:06 <Wolf01> Planned obsolescence 13:47:58 <Alberth> maybe it's trying to download non-existing updates or so 13:48:42 <Wolf01> I think is the antivirus 13:52:57 <TrueBrain> right, enough of removing OSes for now :) 13:56:26 <frosch123> he, there was even a STR_OSNAME_BEOS :p 13:56:47 <TrueBrain> we used to do that for every OS .. but that stopped at some point I guess 13:56:51 <TrueBrain> some even "translated" it :P 13:57:17 <frosch123> sending translator to wiki :) 13:59:15 <peter1138> "All checks have failed" 13:59:30 <frosch123> no idea whether "BEOS_NET_SERVER" would also be used by haiku 13:59:59 <TrueBrain> that is a good question frosch123 .. I assumed it wasn't 14:00:02 <TrueBrain> but that was an assumption 14:00:06 <TrueBrain> cannot really test Haiku .. 14:00:14 <TrueBrain> meh, maybe I should forget about this PR for now 14:00:28 <TrueBrain> first figure out if we want to support Haiku, and if it can be added to the CI someway 14:00:41 <frosch123> meh, more commit hook exceptions 14:02:24 <LordAro> TrueBrain: probably not worth the effort of adding it to CI, although it'd be good to build releases for it 14:02:34 <TrueBrain> LordAro: tomato tomato 14:03:00 <TrueBrain> not saying it should be linked to every PR btw 14:03:06 <TrueBrain> just that once a week orso all targets are tested 14:03:14 <TrueBrain> avoids big surprises whena release approaches :) 14:03:27 <LordAro> yeah, that sort of thing 14:05:55 <frosch123> LordAro: you could also prepare a PR that (1) checks for changed baseset translations, and runs (2) src/script/api/generate_widget.sh and (3) src/script/api/squirrel_export.sh 14:06:24 <frosch123> (1) is something eints currently doesn't, but maybe should? 14:06:36 <frosch123> (2) and in consequence (3) are forgotten all the time 14:08:02 *** snail_UES_ has joined #openttd 14:09:20 <TrueBrain> frosch123: dont forget projects/generate :) 14:09:31 <frosch123> i thought you wanted to remove that :p 14:09:39 <TrueBrain> over time, sure, but that won't be next week :) 14:09:48 <TrueBrain> if cmake works, I expect that we will have both system for a full release 14:12:59 <andythenorth> hmm 14:13:07 * andythenorth trainshedding not bikeshedding 14:13:20 <andythenorth> 100 trains to draw, and I'm obsessing about adding another one, or not :P 14:14:54 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: DOS' latest GCC is 7.3.0, so compiler wise it's definitely new enough... though I think you need to cross-compile from Windows 14:15:11 <TrueBrain> sounds like a challenge 14:15:16 <TrueBrain> how is the endian PR going Rubidium? :) 14:15:53 <Rubidium> LA hasn't made it yet ;( 14:16:04 <TrueBrain> LA? 14:16:41 <Rubidium> LordAro 14:16:46 <TrueBrain> ah 14:16:53 <TrueBrain> you have the diffs ... why not do it yourself? 14:16:57 <TrueBrain> you also have a github account! 14:19:58 <Rubidium> TMWFTLB 14:20:33 <TrueBrain> how rude :( 14:20:40 <TrueBrain> no benefit in making me happy 14:20:42 <TrueBrain> ttssk 14:21:01 <LordAro> :( 14:24:26 *** sim-al2 has quit IRC 14:25:25 *** Gja has joined #openttd 14:28:19 *** Thedarkb1 has joined #openttd 14:36:37 <Rubidium> so I have to recover the account and go through another 20+ steps just for one patch (don't have an intention and/or time to pick further development up in the near future) that make your live easier 14:36:55 <TrueBrain> 20+ steps? Holy crap, what were you planning to do 14:36:57 <TrueBrain> but: yes :D 14:37:02 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 14:37:26 <TrueBrain> if only you knew your password ... than it would be 2 minutes :P But yes .. now knowing your passwords is annoying :) 14:38:28 *** Wormnest_ has joined #openttd 14:39:23 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 14:39:32 *** Thedarkb1 has quit IRC 14:44:26 *** Thedarkb1 has joined #openttd 14:45:13 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I guess your patch misses the part for MSVC? 14:45:17 *** Wormnest has quit IRC 14:45:21 <TrueBrain> or do those project files not use it? 14:46:57 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 has quit IRC 14:48:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd 14:51:41 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: #6762 14:51:55 <TrueBrain> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6762 14:53:14 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: MSVC defined either WIN32 or WIN64, which (before the changes in endian_type) already hard code the endianness 14:53:22 <TrueBrain> k 14:53:23 <TrueBrain> tnx :) 14:53:29 <TrueBrain> removing more fat! 14:54:22 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 14:54:46 *** Flygon has quit IRC 14:55:23 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 15:01:57 *** tokai has joined #openttd 15:01:57 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai 15:08:57 *** tokai|noir has quit IRC 15:22:50 *** tokai|noir has joined #openttd 15:22:50 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai|noir 15:28:06 *** markyisri has joined #openttd 15:28:30 <markyisri> Hello 15:29:06 <TrueBrain> hi 15:29:47 *** tokai has quit IRC 15:30:22 <markyisri> I have a question about the OpenTTD gameplay manual/wiki. Is is possible to download an offline copy? 15:31:01 <LordAro> theres a "Printable version" link on the left side 15:31:20 <LordAro> as for downloading the whole thing though, any sort of web scraper can probably do that for you 15:31:48 <TrueBrain> maybe a better question would be why you want to do that? Wikis tend to be rather large with not-so-useful information? 15:31:56 <_dp_> do people even live offline? 15:32:23 <LordAro> there's an awful lot on the wiki that's out of date 15:32:43 <markyisri> I wanted a comprehensive guide to refer to while learning. I downloaded the game yesterday. 15:32:49 <TrueBrain> any wiki is out-of-date before the save button is pressed the first time LordAro ;) 15:32:56 <LordAro> hehe 15:33:19 <TrueBrain> learn by playing :D But yeah .. I dont really have an answer honestly 15:33:23 <LordAro> markyisri: i'd probably suggest that the only pages you need are Signals and Orders 15:33:33 <LordAro> everything else is fairly intuative for first time 15:34:09 <markyisri> Okay 15:34:11 <markyisri> Thanks for the advice 15:34:48 <LordAro> but good luck! hope you enjoy it :) 15:35:06 <TrueBrain> he will enjoy it! Just the question is .. when will he go to sleep tonight :D 15:35:18 <markyisri> I have enjoyed it already 15:35:36 <markyisri> I was toying around with it while following a 25-minute video tutorial I found on Youtube 15:36:34 *** Gja has joined #openttd 15:37:06 *** markyisri has left #openttd 15:37:38 <TrueBrain> even after 15 years people can surprise you :P 15:37:51 <LordAro> oh? 15:38:01 <TrueBrain> video tutorial on youtube 15:38:08 <TrueBrain> couldn't even predict thatone 15:38:15 <LordAro> oh yes, that's basically how people learn games these days 15:38:19 <LordAro> minecraft started it, i guess 15:44:17 <frosch123> hmm, too late 15:44:36 <frosch123> i wanted to post the only yt signal tutorial where the author actually understood them 15:45:29 <frosch123> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kcgylFM3y4 <- for reference 15:45:38 *** iSoSyS has joined #openttd 15:45:58 <frosch123> TrueBrain: there are extensive ottd let's plays, even channels dedicated to mostly ottd 15:46:08 <TrueBrain> :o 15:46:42 <frosch123> a few months back some yt douche wanted to impersonate abuse@ and dmca a competitive channel 15:47:01 <TrueBrain> ...... right ... 15:47:06 <TrueBrain> I forgot that people can go really low 15:54:59 *** Cubey has joined #openttd 16:02:53 *** chomwitt has joined #openttd 16:11:51 <peter1138> TrueBrain, yeah, people seem to just watch other people doing stuff these days, instead of just reading. 16:12:07 <TrueBrain> s/reading/player/ 16:12:13 <TrueBrain> s/player/playing/ 16:12:13 <peter1138> Well that too. 16:12:15 <TrueBrain> :D 16:12:50 <_dp_> You won't get very far in OpenTTD by just playing :p 16:18:24 *** Maraxus has joined #openttd 16:26:52 *** Maraxus has quit IRC 16:33:02 *** glx has joined #openttd 16:33:02 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v glx 16:46:15 <nielsm> frosch123: there you go 16:47:56 <_dp_> tried hard not to change anything with this patch: https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6763 16:48:00 <_dp_> kinda failed tho xD 16:48:14 <frosch123> nielsm: yay, now 20 minutes of jenkins :) 16:49:31 <frosch123> well, or 40 16:49:47 <glx> yes the other PR is using the ressources :) 16:49:54 <nielsm> :D 16:50:22 <nielsm> the osx build seems to be significantly slower than the rest, or is it just me? 16:50:50 <__ln__> *resources 17:00:22 <andythenorth> it's slow for me locally 17:00:27 <andythenorth> takes a couple of minutes 17:01:33 <nielsm> I suppose I should do some testing of the non-windows dos music loading code too, from ther other PR 17:01:36 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: merged your endian-removal patches :) Tnx again 17:02:09 <nielsm> since I can just call it from the win32 midi player regardless 17:04:22 <nielsm> first bug found! 17:06:11 <TrueBrain> may it be your last :) 17:06:59 <nielsm> forgot to skip the path separator when generating the temp filename for the .mid file to be written 17:07:21 <nielsm> so it'd have made filenames like 0/GMCAT.mid instead of 0GMCAT.mid 17:08:38 <nielsm> is it reasonable to write those to the content_download/baseset/ directory? 17:11:39 <nielsm> (the unreasonable part might be that the files get re-written each time the song starts, I haven't made a mechanism to check for file already existing, and am not sure how much verification that it's really the right thing would be appropriate) 17:14:21 <frosch123> when ottd downloads a musicset from bananas, it uncompresses the content into a separate folder 17:14:34 <frosch123> i would treat the CAT files like archives 17:15:06 <nielsm> so instead make it content_download/baseset/GM.CAT/0.mid 17:15:08 <frosch123> so uncompresing GM.CAT results in GMCAT/0.mid or somthing 17:15:25 <frosch123> first i wanted to suggest "GM/0.mid", but that would conflict with the win music 17:15:26 <nielsm> and just assume the file is correct if it exists 17:16:10 <frosch123> likely you are also not allowed to name the directory identical to the file, so "GM.CAT/" is also invalid :p 17:16:42 <nielsm> usually GM.CAT would be in baseset/ in the install dir, not in content_download/baseset/ 17:16:50 <nielsm> since you don't download the cat files from bananas 17:17:30 <frosch123> true, but people drop their stuff wherever :p 17:18:48 <frosch123> how do you plan to make the .obm? 17:19:11 <frosch123> should the .obm refer to GM.CAT or to GMCAT/ ? 17:19:42 <nielsm> GM.CAT 17:20:02 <nielsm> https://github.com/OpenTTD/OpenTTD/pull/6749/commits/960299b477917278c757c29cb9ad5903e18d73e0 17:20:54 <nielsm> I'm not sure if it should be named lowercase or uppercase in the .obm file actually 17:21:38 <frosch123> "gm-tto.cat"? i doubt it was named like that :p 17:22:26 <nielsm> yes you have to rename it 17:22:37 <nielsm> it's named gm.cat in both original and deluxe 17:23:11 <frosch123> we also support both dos graphics without needing to rename them 17:23:19 <frosch123> but i see, that would conflict with the unpacking 17:23:26 <nielsm> I also made myself a "original_remix.obm" that uses the theme from TTO but the rest from TTD, and just adds the TTD theme as another song on Ezy Street 17:24:50 <nielsm> but part of what happens is also that the music driver doesn't *have* to write a .mid file to disk to play it, the new win32 driver plays the decoded "mps midi" (as I call it internally) from memory 17:25:38 <TrueBrain> glx: is Cygwin still a thing? Or can we just kill it? 17:26:31 <TrueBrain> nielsm: do you think there is a solution for #6750 ? Or shall we promote it to an issue and leave it for another day to be solved? :) 17:27:18 <TrueBrain> frosch123: nice going with the way you give feedback in PRs. I really like the tone and attention you give to it :) Kudos to you :) 17:27:27 <nielsm> uh the VBS script could be fixed but it'll be bothersome 17:27:42 <glx> cygwin still exist, latest version is from february 17:27:58 <frosch123> TrueBrain: trying my best :p 17:28:11 <nielsm> I entered sysadmin world after powershell became a thing so I'm not at all fluent in vbscript ;) 17:28:16 <frosch123> but actually i just leave the closing to others :p 17:28:39 <TrueBrain> haha :D 17:28:52 <TrueBrain> nielsm: if only spanish is the issue, I am somewhat tempted to just hard-code it :P 17:29:30 <nielsm> oh like, "if filename is spanish.txt write spanish_MX.txt, and if filename is spanish_MX.txt then write spanish.txt" or such? 17:29:33 <nielsm> that's evil 17:30:29 <frosch123> TrueBrain: wasn't the concusion that linux should sort based on basename, without extension? 17:30:42 <TrueBrain> frosch123: I read a lot of weird suggestions :D 17:30:50 <TrueBrain> holy crap, generate.vbs is annoying with all the OK dialogs 17:30:54 <nielsm> I'm actually surprised you have mexican spanish separate, but not brazilian vs european portuguese 17:31:04 <TrueBrain> tnx btw, glx, guess we will leave CygWin alone for now :P 17:31:10 <glx> nielsm: check better 17:31:18 <frosch123> nielsm: they both exist, but use different filenames 17:31:26 <nielsm> TrueBrain, run it from commandline, "cscript generate.vbs" 17:31:34 <frosch123> brazilian_portuguese.txt 17:31:40 <nielsm> WHY 17:31:47 <nielsm> that's just not ISO-like at all! 17:32:06 <glx> we could just rename spanish_MX to mexican_spanish 17:32:32 <frosch123> please don't :p that breaks too much 17:32:42 <TrueBrain> pfff 17:32:45 <TrueBrain> we will overcome :P 17:32:48 <nielsm> or rename spanish.txt to spanish_EU.txt 17:32:53 <TrueBrain> eints just needs a pat on the back :P 17:33:05 <frosch123> i think game scripts are the issue 17:33:21 <TrueBrain> hmm 17:33:22 <glx> scripts use filenames ? 17:33:24 <TrueBrain> alias? 17:33:49 <frosch123> tmwftlb? :p 17:33:54 <TrueBrain> ack 17:34:09 <frosch123> glx: yes 17:35:36 <glx> but openttd itself doesn't care about the filename, that's silly scripts are using it 17:39:12 <frosch123> no ottd does 17:39:39 <frosch123> ottd expects script translations to use the same filename as the ottd translation 17:43:29 <Alberth> no ##grflang identification in AI/Game scripts 17:48:36 <TrueBrain> nielsm: okay, I think I found a clean way without going to hacking :) 17:48:42 *** som89_ has quit IRC 17:48:49 <TrueBrain> first I tried to make Vbs do the right thing .. but even a manual Sort() gave a different result .. silly Vbs :P 17:48:53 <TrueBrain> and what a horrible scripting language 17:50:33 <frosch123> i would have put the sed script into single quotes 17:50:42 <frosch123> too many $ and ~ 17:50:47 <TrueBrain> I just moved code 17:51:02 <TrueBrain> did not want to reinvent too much :) 17:51:17 <TrueBrain> the sed clearly has been working for years, so .. yeah :P 17:51:24 <TrueBrain> (I do agree with you btw :) ) 17:51:45 <frosch123> oh, did not notice that it was moved 17:51:54 <TrueBrain> its 2 lines lower! :P 17:51:58 <frosch123> i just assumed that the first sed removed the extension and the second readded it 17:52:25 <TrueBrain> with these things I always try to find the bare minimum to fix it with :) 17:52:27 <TrueBrain> too scred :D 17:52:58 <TrueBrain> funny, 3 languages already updated their strings :P 17:52:59 <nielsm> argh why is FioCreateDirectory marked 'static' in fileio.cpp 17:53:17 <TrueBrain> still surprised by the dedication of our translators 17:53:40 <TrueBrain> nielsm: because nobody ever needed it outside of flileio.cpp? Something easily fixed? :) 17:55:35 <frosch123> one PR referencing another is weird 17:55:40 <TrueBrain> :D:D 17:55:45 <TrueBrain> it made me giggle 17:55:50 <TrueBrain> I could have made a PR to his fork 17:56:04 <TrueBrain> but we should have made an issue out of it first 17:56:09 <TrueBrain> than reference them from PRs 17:56:13 <TrueBrain> GitHub used to do that 17:56:19 <TrueBrain> guess something with overhead 17:56:36 <TrueBrain> I will remove it from my commit message on squashing frosch123 :) 17:58:05 <glx> quickly testing on mingw but it should be ok 17:58:32 <glx> well bash and mingw are never quick ;) 17:58:47 <TrueBrain> yeah .. I had the same issue while testing 17:59:02 <TrueBrain> worse for me was, to test it on linux I first had to drag it in a git on a linux mount (\r\n issues) 17:59:26 <TrueBrain> which was WEIRD 17:59:30 <TrueBrain> but I am happy with WSL 17:59:37 <TrueBrain> lot easier to develop for both OSes 17:59:58 <nielsm> yay now it created content_download/baseset/GM-TTOCAT/0.mid 18:00:01 <nielsm> as intended 18:00:33 <glx> mingw still works as before :) 18:01:23 <TrueBrain> glx: is that a good or bad thing? :) 18:03:41 <frosch123> haha, we have a jenkins queue of over an hour 18:04:22 <TrueBrain> yeah ..... 18:04:31 <frosch123> TrueBrain: should we buy another vps with a few more cores? 18:04:36 <TrueBrain> I really either need more CPU power, or make the CI incremental, or install ccache 18:04:54 <TrueBrain> frosch123: if we can afford it :P 18:04:54 <frosch123> i doubt aws would be free, and aws is 3 times more expensive than some vps 18:05:05 <frosch123> (according to my computation last night) 18:05:10 <TrueBrain> we can look at the AWS instances that .. what was it called ... 18:05:22 <nielsm> hm should I put the minor change to fileio.cpp & fileio_func.h in a separate commit or just "hide" it along with the feature code that depends on it? 18:05:30 <TrueBrain> yeah, normal AWS instances are very expensive if you compare them to dedicated servers 18:05:40 <nielsm> AWS you can pay per minute basically 18:05:50 <TrueBrain> and you have this instance type 18:05:51 <nielsm> if you just shut down the instance when you don't need it 18:05:54 <TrueBrain> which is cheap, but not always available 18:06:46 <TrueBrain> Spot 18:06:50 <TrueBrain> AWS Spot instances 18:06:53 <TrueBrain> those are a lot cheaper 18:06:55 <TrueBrain> but might not be available etc 18:07:11 <andythenorth> jenkins has support for AWS spot 18:07:43 <andythenorth> it can stop and start nodes, but you tend to run with a pool of them available AIUI 18:07:50 <andythenorth> it's very cheap, until it's not 18:09:19 <frosch123> TrueBrain: https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/instances/prices/ <- something from the C2 series, like C2-60 18:10:06 <frosch123> unless the billing rounds to whole hours :p 18:12:41 <nielsm> here have some more for the jenkins queue 18:23:24 <TrueBrain> okay, math time 18:23:32 <TrueBrain> we had 50 PRs in, what, a month 18:23:39 <TrueBrain> which resulted in, what, 150 CI hits? 18:23:49 <TrueBrain> lets say it doubles 18:24:01 <TrueBrain> means 300 CI hits per month, 10 a day, 1 every 2 hours 18:24:40 <TrueBrain> we currently use 2 cores, build takes, what, 20 minutes .. make that 30 18:24:58 <TrueBrain> so 50% load on a single core 18:25:12 <TrueBrain> lets keep things simple, say we double again, 600 CI hits a month 18:25:17 <TrueBrain> means we need 1 core 18:26:25 <TrueBrain> @calc 0.062 * 24 * 30 18:26:25 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 44.64 18:26:38 <TrueBrain> so 45 euro on your URL, for 2 cores 18:26:48 <TrueBrain> @calc 0.062 * 24 * 30 * .121 18:26:48 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 5.40144 18:26:51 <TrueBrain> @calc 0.062 * 24 * 30 * 1.21 18:26:51 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 54.0144 18:26:53 <TrueBrain> sorry, 55 euro 18:27:00 <frosch123> prices are linear for more cores 18:27:09 <TrueBrain> so, 27 euros 18:27:41 <TrueBrain> for 42 euro a month we can buy a dedicated server similar to what we have now .. with 8 cores 18:27:48 <TrueBrain> just doesnt scale as well (no burst) 18:27:58 <TrueBrain> well, 4 cores, 8 HT 18:28:13 <TrueBrain> so ... 10 euro with no burst vs 27 euros with burst 18:29:46 <TrueBrain> lets see .. AWS spot .. 2 vCPUs, 0.0317 per hour 18:29:57 <TrueBrain> @calc 0.0317 * 24 * 30 18:29:57 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 22.824 18:30:06 <TrueBrain> so 22 euro per month, but for 2 cores, so 11 euro 18:30:07 <TrueBrain> with burst 18:30:10 <TrueBrain> but no guarantees 18:30:30 <TrueBrain> linear with CPU too 18:30:33 <frosch123> there are also "no guarantees" on the ovh site 18:30:45 <frosch123> at the bottom 18:30:46 <andythenorth> AWS limit how many spot instances you can buy also 18:30:53 <andythenorth> and then it gets expensive to add more to your account 18:31:12 <TrueBrain> but we only need 4 or so 18:31:15 <andythenorth> not sure how that works, but doubling our Jenkins would cost something like 3x or 4x as much 18:31:17 <andythenorth> at work 18:31:26 <andythenorth> I am hazy on the details :P 18:31:29 <TrueBrain> :D 18:31:41 <TrueBrain> but EC2 Spot is the cheapest solution for us I guess 18:31:43 <andythenorth> anyway, I can sponsor x amount per month 18:31:52 <andythenorth> I used to sponsor coop, but that seems to not be a thing 18:32:04 <frosch123> @calc 300*40/60*0.01 18:32:04 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 2 18:32:05 <TrueBrain> would mean we have to pay AWS around 20 euro per month for it, give or take a few 18:32:21 <michi_cc> For the OVH cloud I read lots of 'Billed to the nearest hour'. 18:32:32 <andythenorth> I can do like £15 / month 18:32:35 <TrueBrain> they almost always are billed to the next hour, honestly :) 18:32:40 <andythenorth> how much do we have orudge? o_O 18:32:41 <frosch123> 2 euro per month :p 18:32:52 <frosch123> i have no idea what this "no guarantee" means :p 18:32:57 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: we havent had a fundraiser in years; nuff said 18:33:10 <TrueBrain> frosch123: if you dont say what you calculate, it means very little to me :) 18:33:18 <andythenorth> frosch123: 'no guarantee' _usually_ means contended instances 18:33:24 <andythenorth> and they can go away at no notice 18:33:40 <frosch123> TrueBrain: you said 300 hits per month, 40 cpu minutes per hit 18:33:58 <frosch123> @calc 300*40/60*0.085/2 18:33:58 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 8.5 18:34:20 <frosch123> i don't get your 27 euros 18:34:36 <frosch123> though i skipped VAT 18:34:41 <TrueBrain> I calculated 50% load on a single core, with 300 hits per month, and say 30 minutes per hit 18:35:03 <TrueBrain> so to make calculations easier, as round to an hour will fuck us over 18:35:09 <TrueBrain> say 100% load on a single core 18:35:19 <TrueBrain> means if you look at the price for a single core, it will always be under, never over 18:35:33 <TrueBrain> they ask 0.062 euro per hour for 2 cores 18:35:49 <TrueBrain> @calc 0.062 * 24 * 30 * 1.21 18:35:49 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 54.0144 18:35:56 <TrueBrain> 24 hours in a day, 30 days in a month, + VAT 18:36:34 <frosch123> but that is for constant usage 18:36:42 <TrueBrain> 1 CPU core at 100% load 18:36:44 <TrueBrain> is pretty constant yes 18:36:53 <TrueBrain> that was the whole point of picking that :) 18:36:56 <frosch123> @calc 0.062 * 20/60 * 300 * 1.21 18:36:57 <DorpsGek> frosch123: 7.502 18:37:12 <frosch123> your computations are far away from the 300 hits 18:37:20 <TrueBrain> yes, it assumes we will have 4 times more PR than we have now, but .. with the rounding of the hours, it most likely doesnt matter if we have 300 CI hits or 1200 18:37:35 <TrueBrain> yes ... I said that 18:37:44 <TrueBrain> 300 hits with 30 minutes is ~50% .. I doubled that 18:38:07 <andythenorth> if it runs out of nodes stuff will just queue up no? 18:38:08 <TrueBrain> these "per hour" prices basically means: every CI hit will cost an hour 18:38:38 <TrueBrain> so if we keep the 300, it would mean 18:38:43 <TrueBrain> @calc 0.062 * 300 * 1.21 18:38:43 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 22.506 18:38:48 <TrueBrain> 22 euros 18:39:05 <TrueBrain> either way, the numbers were not that relevant to me, more how they compare to each other 18:39:13 <TrueBrain> basically, OVH cloud is expensive, as is EC2 18:39:21 <TrueBrain> EC2 spot is cheap, about as expensive as our own dedicated server 18:39:25 <TrueBrain> EC2 spot can only scale 18:39:34 <TrueBrain> so it is a balance game; what do we want 18:39:40 <TrueBrain> consistant throughput, or burst 18:39:53 <frosch123> to me it looks we need burst on weekend 18:40:04 <TrueBrain> so EC2 Spot is a good candidate in that case 18:40:08 <frosch123> which may mean that we can go for the SANDBOX thing, when no business uses them 18:40:27 <TrueBrain> sandbox? 18:40:40 <frosch123> https://www.ovh.co.uk/public-cloud/instances/prices/ <- at the bottom 18:40:43 <TrueBrain> ah 18:40:51 <frosch123> 1/8 the price, but no guarantees 18:40:55 <frosch123> whatever that means :p 18:41:05 <TrueBrain> AWS does the same .. but I guess AWS is a bit bigger :P 18:41:11 <TrueBrain> higher chance they are available :D 18:41:30 <TrueBrain> I think 2 GB is not enough btw .. had issues when the VM was running on 2GB 18:42:02 <TrueBrain> wow, Windows is expensie :o 18:42:39 <TrueBrain> "from the three available" continues to list 4 18:42:40 <TrueBrain> lol 18:42:50 <frosch123> 60% more or so 18:43:24 <TrueBrain> no SANDBOX for Windows :P 18:43:41 <TrueBrain> and almost double for the C2-7 for example 18:44:15 <TrueBrain> either way, these things, are really a matter of trying 18:44:20 <TrueBrain> no clue how they work and how well they work 18:44:35 <TrueBrain> and the other approach is simply adding ccache for the linux CIs :P 18:44:43 <TrueBrain> would drop their times drasticly 18:44:56 <TrueBrain> just shit-annoyed AWS never replied :( 18:46:09 <TrueBrain> glx: did mingw work with my generate fix? (did it produce no diff on my branch)? 18:48:43 *** Pikka has quit IRC 18:50:22 *** gelignite has quit IRC 18:52:12 *** ToBeFree has joined #openttd 18:58:19 <glx> TrueBrain: yes it works, still produces the same diff as generate.vbs 18:58:46 <glx> hence the work as before ;) 18:58:58 *** ToBeFree has quit IRC 18:59:17 <TrueBrain> cool! 19:13:42 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 19:18:35 *** sla_ro|master has quit IRC 19:31:36 *** cbrowne has joined #openttd 19:32:52 <TrueBrain> @calc 0.062 / 2 * 1.21 19:32:53 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.03751 19:33:13 <TrueBrain> @calc 0.0317 / 2 19:33:13 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.01585 19:33:48 <TrueBrain> @calc 0.014 / 2 19:33:48 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.007 19:34:12 <TrueBrain> frosch123: another way of saying this, the above are the prices per CI run :D (OVH Cloud, AWS Spot, OVH SANDBOX) 19:34:25 <TrueBrain> so we can charge people to create their PR to cover it :D 19:34:41 <LordAro> in USD? 19:35:00 <frosch123> ok, then i only found the wrong aws stuff 19:35:20 <LordAro> OVH has sponsored OTTD in the past... 19:35:51 <frosch123> sponsoring does not work if you have noone to contantly run after them 19:35:55 <TrueBrain> EC2 spot 19:36:04 <frosch123> at which point you have to compare it to your salary :p 19:36:47 <TrueBrain> only works for jenkins stuff .. not for hosting etc 19:40:25 <frosch123> fpga instances? who uses that? 19:40:33 <frosch123> people who want to decrypt stuff? 19:45:40 <TrueBrain> any specific job I guess .. 19:47:14 <andythenorth> sponsoring bla 19:47:15 <andythenorth> h blah 19:47:26 <andythenorth> I was paying £15 / month for world of tanks 19:47:33 <andythenorth> and it's not even pay-to-win :P 19:47:39 <LordAro> andythenorth: oh dear 19:47:41 <andythenorth> I can cover some cloud hosting 19:47:46 <LordAro> you're one of *those* people 19:48:43 <andythenorth> I quit WoT 19:51:44 <TrueBrain> I thought you paid us with your grumpyness every day andy? 19:52:30 <andythenorth> WoT made me grumpy :P 19:54:59 <FLHerne> andythenorth: Wow, is production in FIRS 3 supposed to be this high?! 19:55:22 <FLHerne> My brand-new, unfed Orchard & Piggery produces 185t of fruit per month... 19:55:52 <andythenorth> yea 19:56:00 <nielsm> FLHerne on the other hand, it can't ever increase to 2000 t/month 19:56:06 <andythenorth> although you got lucky with randomisation there 19:56:22 <FLHerne> The other ones are all >100 19:56:36 <FLHerne> This is going to be a pain with my little 15t steam lorries :P 19:57:17 <nielsm> part of the challenge with FIRS is that you basically have to server lots and lots of industries to get large amounts of raw materials, and also send supplies back 19:57:56 <andythenorth> depends on the economy 19:57:57 <FLHerne> nielsm: Yes, I've played with FIRS before, just not this version 19:57:57 <andythenorth> but yeah 19:58:09 <andythenorth> previously farms were smaller and clustered densely 19:58:26 <andythenorth> in 3 they are larger (higher production) and cluster less densely 19:58:39 <FLHerne> In the older one, initial production is 3-4 dozen, so you really have to use supplies to get a decent output 19:59:32 <FLHerne> I can't imagine ever /wanting/ to feed supplies to these, they'll be enough of a pain to serve as it is 20:00:42 <FLHerne> Hm, wasn't there a parameter for production level once? 'Generous' etc. ? 20:00:50 <FLHerne> Or is my memory playing tricks? 20:01:54 <andythenorth> there's a parameter for effect of supplies 20:02:26 <andythenorth> most FIRS primaries can be served by two trains around TL5 20:02:40 <andythenorth> some get randomised up to 400 units or so / month 20:02:47 <andythenorth> which needs TL8 or 3 trains 20:02:59 <FLHerne> Aargh, even the original industry has silly production levels 20:03:03 <FLHerne> *economy 20:03:14 <FLHerne> Well, at least it's open-source 20:03:20 <andythenorth> it's easy to adjust 20:03:57 <andythenorth> the net production is about the same as you'd get previously from 3 clustered farms 20:04:11 <andythenorth> but now there is less yak-shaving to collect it 20:04:22 <FLHerne> Yeah, where's the fun in that? :P 20:05:28 <andythenorth> there's a reason FIRS 2 has a different grfid :P 20:05:33 <andythenorth> still on bananas eh 20:06:00 <FLHerne> That's a point, might be easier 20:06:10 <FLHerne> OTOH, I do already have a FIRS checkout 20:08:28 <andythenorth> ha ha 20:08:29 <andythenorth> http://www.railphotoarchive.org/rpc_zoom.php?img=0146020060000 20:08:36 <andythenorth> that's the Little Bear engine in Horse 1 20:08:43 <andythenorth> except we completely invented the Little Beaer 20:09:49 <FLHerne> Blegh 20:10:10 <FLHerne> New firs doesn't like being built in a git-hg checkout 20:10:23 *** synchris has quit IRC 20:10:26 <andythenorth> unfortunate 20:10:34 <andythenorth> I'd switch to git...but eh :( 20:13:37 <FLHerne> Meh, I can hack bin/hg-info to return nonsense :P 20:14:56 <FLHerne> Oh, I don't even need to do that 20:19:21 * FLHerne sets REPO_VERSION to 9999, wcgw 20:23:48 *** Alberth has left #openttd 20:29:12 *** cbrowne has quit IRC 20:33:14 <peter1138> andythenorth, DO IT 20:37:54 *** frosch123 has quit IRC 20:38:46 *** iSoSyS has quit IRC 20:38:54 * andythenorth also bye 20:38:54 *** andythenorth has left #openttd 21:20:57 *** nielsm has quit IRC 21:23:14 *** sim-al2 has joined #openttd 21:31:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 21:31:47 *** som89_ has joined #openttd 21:39:42 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 21:40:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 21:45:05 *** som89 has joined #openttd 21:47:30 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone here have any clue how to diagnose windows performance problems? this system is really really slow, says disk I/O is at 100%, but only like 1MB/s 21:48:52 *** som89_ has quit IRC 21:49:32 *** Wormnest_ has quit IRC 22:00:16 *** som89 has quit IRC 22:03:25 *** beno has joined #openttd 22:03:33 *** som89 has joined #openttd 22:04:22 *** Supercheese has quit IRC 22:04:39 *** Supercheese has joined #openttd 22:07:50 *** som89_ has joined #openttd 22:10:07 *** Thedarkb1 has quit IRC 22:12:17 *** som89 has quit IRC 22:22:03 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 22:24:43 *** Progman has quit IRC 22:26:43 *** Gja has quit IRC 22:30:33 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 22:32:35 *** Stimrol has quit IRC 22:33:59 *** Thedarkb-X40 has joined #openttd 22:40:10 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd 22:42:07 *** beno has quit IRC 23:37:22 *** FLHerne has quit IRC 23:37:37 *** Eddi|zuHause has quit IRC 23:39:34 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd 23:40:31 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i sorta isolated it to "tile data model server" service... but 1) no tiles should be active, and 2) it restarts immediately when i stop it 23:49:20 <Wolf01> uhm 23:49:28 <Wolf01> 'night 23:49:31 *** Wolf01 has quit IRC